ML12052A108

DISCLAIMER Except for the marked redactions for FOIA withholding, this transcript has not been edited
or otherwise reviewed for accuracy by participants or the NRC. It may contain typographical mistakes or other transcription errors.
Official Transcript of Proceedings NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
Title:
Japan's Fukushima Daiichi ET Audio File
Docket Number:
(n/a)
Location:
(telephone conversations)
Date:
Wednesday, March 16, 2011
Work Order No.:
NRC-944
Pages 1-457
NEAL R. GROSS AND CO., INC. Court Reporters and Transcribers 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433
1 1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
2 3 4 5
JAPAN'S FUKUSHIMA DAIICHI ET AUDIO FILE

+ ++++
WEDNESDAY
7 8 6 9 10 11 12 13 1 15 16
17
MARCH 16,
2011
18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25.
NEAL R.GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS
14 3 OALnc ICl AkIn A%/X N W
2 (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) 2 3 4 DAN Executive Team. DORMAN: You're talking to the
about
*(phonetic):
Yes,
this
is
fl%
(phonetic) with the U.S. DAN DORMAN: Joe,
Embassy, Tokyo. this is Dan Dorman, the
6 7
8
Director of the Executive Team. How are you doing? Tony also has asked me to give you a call three turbines to make that are available. the purchases We need to them
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 for t(phonetic) m USAID, so information
get approval here.
and airlift
DAN
DORMAN:
Yes,
we
have
written
request from TEPCO for up to seven, that General Electric has
but we understand three of them,
identified
that they are available, transport.
and we just need to arrange
DAN DORMAN:
Okay.
Have they already been
purchased or does USAID need to purchase them? I have not had any
about purchasing.
They are
just
looking
for us to transport them. MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes, USAID was looking
to send a request back to that they could get them on a military
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3 1 2 3 transport and get them over them. I don't think there It
was any discussion as far as money changing hands. was just getting-4 f transport, there has got Well, if it is
a military
to be a mission assignment
associated with it. 7 8

9
MALE PARTICIPANT: to take care of that.
Yes,
and USAID is
going
E
equipment --
There's
assignment
for
the
IC 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
MALE PARTICIPANT: Fellows, I request I'll am 0 So, if fellows, m
That's correct. let's cut this short. and I do the then
Deputy, this is
for MILAIR.
just a list,
go ahead and get that started. Is there a point of contact there where I
can have someone call from the military to get weight and dims and the location to pick up? MALE PARTICIPANT: (Pause.) MALE PARTICIPANT: Hang on a second.
Okay,m uh-hun. I'm going to. give you a is embedded with USAID I
Yes,
MALE PARTICIPANT: phone here, number for our guy who
and he'll connect you to Pat Longi (phonetic) NEALR.GROSS
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4 think wi-th GE,
who is
going to get you the specs.
okay.
So, the phone number is
MALE PARTICIPANT:
MALE PARTICIPANT:
--
MALE PARTICIPANT: 14 F miniOkay. MALE PARTICIPANT: 11 17 12 18 16C 13 to Jeff Colwaltick (phonetic), Washington. Okay. And he should be able And that would get you who is NRC embedded
with USAID here in
C ( C
19 14
20 15 16 17? 18 19 20C 21 22 23 24 25 Okay, that specs. * Pat Electric, is
MALE PARTICIPANT:
to connect you with Pat Long to get those specs. And Pat Long is that correct? MALE Long is PARTICIPANT: with USAID Our here, understanding but he has is the with General
Oh,
Pat Long has the specs?
I've got it. MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes. Okay. e'll W go
All right.
ahead and get this going for you guys.
Thanks.
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5 1 2 MALE Appreciate it. = 0 Uh-hum. Bye-bye. PARTICIPANT: Thanks,
E 7
S 1C 11 12 13 14 1E 1.E
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6 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 (phonetic). That's not consistent with the list that going to smaller b
with --
(CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) MALE PARTICIPANT:

we've been talking
We're just sitting here

withI and
about these GE turbines. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: (inaudible), Yes. And, you know, after
has been talking thinking here is,
what we are kind of
I mean,
these are massive engines. They've got to
I mean we are talking 200 tons here. C5 them over here. the airport.
And they're going to get them into
They'll probably come into Yokota. And, then, the question I mean, is, what are we
going to do with them?
heavy lifters;
we've
got to make sure the roads are good. I mean, did GE and TEPCO talk about minimum
equipment,
thinking,
you
know,
equipment need complements, pumps and stuff?
you know,
a couple of RHR
These have got to be 5-megawatt, be 5-megawatt generators. I
these are mean these
things are massive. MALE PARTICIPANT: This is Monty
we had worked out originally, right? NEAL R.GROSS

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7 1 2 3 portables, MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Right. Right. We were looking at
positive (inaudible,
possibly "displacement
compressors") 6 7 8 9 1
1
(inaudible) powered compressors. What do they hope to do with these
railroad engines? MALE PARTICIPANT: trying to figure out, Actually, Hey right, for sir. Well, that's what we're
We don't really know.
wait one, please. that's a hard number, I mean, you got 200 tons, that from
12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 2 25
these things?
the source? MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE hard number PARTICIPANT: the size of (inaudible). Yes, these that's a pretty And,
about
things.
apparently, per C5.
you know,
basically,
they're one generator
And that's a pretty massive engine. MALE PARTICIPANT: the nuclear power I know. plant Are or are they they
thinking
about
thinking about supplying power without power in MALE about of. that. Because, that region? PARTICIPANT:
to the people
that are
Well, I
I'm
not
sure
That's
a good question you know,
hadn't
thought
apparently,
I'm talking to the
NEAL R.GROSS
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8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2Q 21 22 23 24 25 Bye-bye. AID folks here.

--
The AID folks are telling me that the sir, I need to sir. go and talk to the
actually,
Ambassador.
I apologize,
I'm sorry about that. Excuse me. Fine. All right.
The Ambassador wants to see us. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT:
Okay.
Sorry.
NEAL R.GROSS
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9 1
2 (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) MALE PARTICIPANT: Hey, how you doing?
3 4 5 6 7-
MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Hey, important being i Dan, an
Okay. Good,
How are you? good. you, the most
update
for
910
12
m*
12-
14
15
mmu
17
18-
19-U---21
22
23
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10
1~
3 4 5 6
7
--
MALE
PARTICIPANT:
Okay.
don't
know
really where we're headed with it, MALE PARTICIPANT:

we watched TEPCO executives
though. I'm
that
Well,
say
just
trying
have
they
8 9 10 1 12 13 14 15 16 17
evacuated the site. MALE PARTICIPANT: And yesterday we
watched TEPCO executives say that the Unit 2 wet well was no longer intact, that it was. So, and by the afternoon they said
you know, we have been dealing with
conflicting information from those folks for a while. You know, if I don't doubt you. And, I mean,
I was a gambling man, So,
I know where I would put my
chips.
I agree with you.
18***
20 21
Itm
2223
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22 22
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Ml
m -
mm,eMON
K>
rnln-nMALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes, Yes, Okay.
-lmlnnn
-n
I agree with that. we've got to go.
LIN
111 mom Mm*m
15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
M -N -
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NEAL R. GROSS
14 1 2 "And it MALE PARTICIPANT: (Inaudible, possibly
will go to him.") MALE PARTICIPANT: Very well. He'll take
3
4 5 6
care of that for you. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: AMY: Hello. Hello. Thanks, You bet. Jim. Take care.
7
8 9 1 11 12 13 1 1 1 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 So, I'm the
Good luck over there.
MALE PARTICIPANT: AMY: This is Amy. Hi, Team
DAN DORMAN: Executive
Amy.
This is
Dan Dorman. at NRC
Director
here
headquarters. I just wanted to check in. We have a team and most of
of nine folks that are headed over there,
them should have arrived from Heathrow at Norita about five hours ago. AMY: Correct. I have heard from them.
the seven that were on that flight are confirmed And they do have my phone and I told them
here en route to the hotel. number. --
They have already checked in,
one of them clearly is I imagine
very familiar with the area. show up at the Embassy,
So,
that they'll
but I told them to call me if DAN DORMAN: Well,
they had any problems. will you arrange a time
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15 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 2 2 when they (inaudible, AMY: here to convene? possibly "convene together")? sorry, when they get
Arrange time, Is
that what you said? Yes. Once they get there, we
DAN DORMAN:
would like to get on the phone with them. AMY: will be a little the list there's quickly. here. interest Absolutely. Absolutely. hold on. Now it
bit later for --
I've got I know very
I did send out a car because in having Chuck It get here
I haven't heard yet.
takes quite a while So, I haven't heard
between Norita Airport and back. yet that he's en route, So, waiting for is I
but I expect he will be. the only is other one we're
guess
Richard DeVercelly, Yes.
that right?
DAN DORMAN: AMY: Okay.
DAN DORMAN:
Amy,
let me tell you what I'd
like you to do for us then. AMY: DAN Okay. DORMAN: Once Chuck is checked into bit, with
his hotel room and changed, what I would like to do is
freshened up a little convene a meeting
Chuck and the team members in your offices, can talk to them by phone. AMY: Okay. NEAL R.GROSS
(202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701
so that we
www nealrgross.com
16
1
2 for us,
DAN DORMAN:
So,
if
you could set that up
that would be really helpful. AMY: Sure. Absolutely. And give us a little Chuck you then, has landed establish and a bit of he's time in for
3
4 heads-up Tokyo, 7 8 9 1 11 12 13 14
1
DAN DORMAN: as to, once
maybe,
then, and,
could
that meeting,
we could be here on this end
and ready to receive his call. AMY: information? Definitely. Can I get your contact but just in case.
I'm sure he has it, DAN DORMAN: AMY: Uh-huh.

--
It's
area code 301 --
DAN DORMAN:
816 --
AMY:
816.
--
DAN DORMAN:
5100.
1 17 1 19 2 2 22 23 24 2 let me see if then, here. get I Operations
AMY: DAN
5100. DORMAN: That then, will get you our to
Officer and,
ask to be connected
the Executive Team. AMY: Executive Team. Okay, great. So,
I can find out if sense
he's en route now and, he's going be to get at the
a better wouldn't
of when that
anticipate
he'll
hotel before 3:30 p.m. DAN
Tokyo time. Right, right. So, that's
DORMAN:
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17 five o'clock maybe Tokyo time we could have that phone 2 3 as well, 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 1 16 17 18 19
20
call? AMY: Exactly. That's what I was thinking a little bit of leeway
which would give us
for traffic and whatnot, factor.
which is
the big determining
But let me get a better idea. Can I also-email you to confirm? Would
that work?
DAN DORMAN: ET07
--
AMY: DAN et07.hoc@nrc.gov. AMY:
ET07. DORMAN: .hoc@nrc.gov. So,
Okay,
et07.hoc@nrc.gov? Yes. I will be in touch. And let
DAN DORMAN: AMY: Okay.
me give you my BlackBerry number and email as well. DAN DORMAN: AMY: So, Okay.
the BlackBerry number is Yes.

-
DAN DORMAN: AMY:

--
21 22 23 2 2 A-S-I-N-K,
DAN DORMAN:
AMY: -I"
Yes.
DAN DORMAN: AMY: Correct. And my email is asink, so
@ofda.gov. NEAL R.GROSS

(202) 234-4433
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18 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 touch. DAN DORMAN: AMY: Thanks, Amy. Bye-bye. in Frank,

@ofda.gov?
DAN
DORMAN:
So,
asink,
A-S-I-N-K,
ANY: ofda.gov.
Yes,
just
to confirm,
it's
O-F,
as
DAN DORMAN: AMY:
O-F,
as in Frank,
D-A.gov?
Correct. Got it. great. Then, I will be in
DAN DORMAN: AMY: Okay,
All right.
Thanks.
14
16 17
18
19 20
21
22 23 24
NEAL R.GROSS
19 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 you? CHUCK CASTO: DAN 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 hours ago to E DORMAN: I'm great. We sent a current over a couple on of Dorman. CHUCK CASTO: DAN DORMAN: Hey, Dan, how you doing? How are (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) DAN DORMAN: you there, Chuck? CHUCK CASTO: DAN DORMAN: This is Hey, Chuck. Chuck, this is Dan Good afternoon, Chuck. Are
I'm doing all right.
10
one-pager at
NRC'S
understanding Daiichi
of
conditions
Fukushima Have
(inaudible,
possibly "Nuclear Center").
you seen that? CHUCK CASTO: were just meeting withW gotten to that yet. DAN understanding that. I is DORMAN: still Okay. pretty All much right. Our with to be I haven't seen it yet. We
a moment ago,
but we hadn't
consistent continues
guess our biggest challenge
getting reliable information from (inaudible, "staff")
possibly
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22
10 1~ 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 .2 21 22 23 24 25 we have a is ahead. DAN DORMAN: question Okay. that's One of the areas that very important to 4. our The I'm CHUCK CASTO: DAN DORMAN: CHUCK CASTO: Yes. But one of the things that Well, go ahead. No,
--
go
assessment
the current
condition at Unit
media continues to report on the fire at Unit 4.
looking at an MSNBC blurb right now that says that it involves the outer shell of the containment building. We've been assuming that it pool. And so, involves the fuel in the
any clarification we can get as to the may pose to
root of that fire and any threat that it the fuel in the pool is one important area.
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22
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CHUCK CASTO: DAN DORMAN: since we sent that
Yes. One other thing we've gotten, we got a at report Unit 5, from and
one-pager,
IAEA regarding it's
the decreasing
level
not specific as to whether it's vessel or the spent-fuel
talking about the pool, but it does
pressure
say that at that time it a five-hour period, over the of fuel
was a 47-meter decrease over gives the amount of water of that being
and it
remaining.
And extrapolation would have
weight
decreasing
level
fuel
uncovered about five hours from now at Unit 5. But it also reported diesel that they would be for Unit 6 to
using an operational
generator
provide water to Unit 5. information to us, that
And that was a new piece of there was an operational
diesel generator. CHUCK CASTO: Yes, I had heard that
Daiichi they had evacuated out 10 kilometers. DAN kilometers is DORMAN: Daiene was evacuated 10
our understanding.
Daiichi,
which is
the stricken plant,
was evacuated to 20 kilometers -Right.

-and was sheltering out to
CHUCK CASTO:
DAN DORMAN:
24 25
30 kilometers. CHUCK CASTO: Yes.
NEAL R. GROSS
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22 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 piece, earlier. DAN DORMAN: we had had some were And, then, I guess the other with that Jim all Trapp the
conversation media reports
There
workers had been evacuated from the site. understanding they were are is that they remain at the
Our current site, but
evacuated
from the
four damaged units and dose limits to perform
available
with emergency
actions as needed. On that one-pager, it says we understand
1 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
that all the staff have been evacuated from the site. We've tempered that a little bit. and the terms of
Those are some of the challenges current things that we're looking at in
information needs. CHUCK CASTO: we can get. Well, we'll get you whatever
You know how information is. DAN DORMAN: CHUCK CASTO: Yes. But who's with you? Is it
just you? DAN DORMAN: first Lewis, brought you up, Chris Miller, Yes. No, it was when we Rob
but I've got Marty Virgilio, Tom Blount, and some
other
supporting staff in
the room here. Yes, get. NEAL R.GROSS we'll get you whatever As you know, the
CHUCK CASTO: information we can
23 communications channels are very limited. DAN DORMAN: I Yes.
12
4 1C 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 say that, is CHUCK CASTO: Right. And, also, I would
from what I've gotten from the Embassy here, who I haven't talked to yet, but,
the Ambassador,
you know, over here.
they're worried about the 170,000 Americans That's their primary goal. NEAL R. GROSS
They're here
24
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
to protect them. DAN DORMAN: CHUCK CASTO: you know, think, if Right. And that's their focus. So, I
we're here to support the Ambassador, that's got to be our focus. VIRGILIO: clearly, Yes, when we Chuck, think this about
you know, MARTY
is our
Marty.
mean, that is
8
9 i 1i 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
priorities, down, Japan
the top priority that we've listed in is
as we have outlined what are our objectives right now. And, clearly, the top priority
support to the Ambassador and the U.S. I would say in second the is support for
citizens there. the Japanese And,
Government then,
recovery of
these reactors.
third is
gathering
insights and lessons learned
for us,
so that we can assess the implications for our
operating fleet and applicants. CHUCK CASTO: MARTY those terms. CHUCK CASTO: Right. Just to switch subjects a Jim Trapp's request, to get are you being access we to Absolutely. So, Right. about it in
VIRGILIO:
think
MARTY VIRGILIO: little bit, at Jim's request, with INPO to
have worked daily or
try
periodic
meetings. that
conducted
between WANO and TEPCO.
NEAL R.GROSS
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MARTY VIRGILIO: 3 CHUCK CASTO:
Okay.
Does that make any sense? Yes. Chuck, this is Dan, Dan. but let
MARTY VIRGILIO: DAN DORMAN: 6 7 8 9 1 know, Yes.
MARTY VIRGILIO: me make one last point. By trying to do it information across
I'm sorry,
through the media, something, that
you is
CNN or
just causing a whipsaw over here.
11 12
13-*
*-
--
muIU-K
15 16 17 18 19
20
MARTY VIRGILIO: could come up with a bounding, okay, what is maybe

--
Yes,
and I
think if
you
you know, analysis of, but what is a
not
worst-case,
likely outcome
2 22 23 24 25
MALE
PARTICIPANT:
Well,
the
one-pager
that you have attached to, pager that was sent to
the attachment
to the oneof hours
a couple
ago has a dose projection for the current wind for a dirt fire with a release of half of the spent-fuel
NEAL R. GROSS
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pool at Unit 4. But, say the shell as I said, we are seeing reports that of the building is burning, not the
spent-fuel pool. MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes, I think that we've the next -is if kind of
got to project at the next level of event, you know, what we are doing right now okay,
reacting true, maybe
to what we hear and saying, here is the outcome.
that's got to
then
But
we've
think one or
two steps ahead,
and that way we
could keep more stable on our recommendations. DAN DORMAN: last 24 hours pool, and the big Well, items and have I think over the Unit 4
been
that
spent-fuel where Jim
and there was a period 24 hours ago Tony were telling us that in their Unit
assessment was that we had X vessel material 2. And that was driving us 24 hours ago. CHUCK CASTO: trying to say, you know, just Dan. If Right.
And that's what I'm to that, we in
we keep responding or, you know, zirc
to the anecdotal -there's a
what if fire
assume. that
(phonetic)
that spent-fuel
pool?
What's
the source-term of, you know,
there? whether the
And what would be the outcome there is or isn't a fire, if
there was,
what's
outcome? NEALR.GROSS
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 that DAN DORMAN: attachment out don't is to If there was, we would which you're what you've got be is, recommending obviously, that a
that
evacuations lot -I
50 miles, that
know
aware
what Twenty It's
they're -kilometers
I guess we already talked about it. is what they've currently evacuated.
about 12 miles.
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 reacting here; CHUCK to -CASTO: Yes, the only thing I'm
and I hope we're just having a dialog so
I'm just trying to have a dialog with us all,
we can get aligned.
18
19 20
mmm
21
22 23 24 2 But whatever we can do, just think about
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whatever we can do to stabilize our path here. MALE PARTICIPANT: Well, Chuck, at this
point we're really looking

-
for you to help direct us
CHUCK CASTO:
Right.
--
6
7
MALE PARTICIPANT: what are your needs, doing -CHUCK CASTO: MALE projections. I mean, that you got is, Right.
you know,
based on
what do you think we ought to be
8
9
1
11 12 13 14 15 1 17
PARTICIPANT:
--
in
terms
of
those
the other piece of that document you know, looking ahead and
assuming,
assuming that we lose Reactor 2,
what will be the dose
consequences of release from Unit 2? CHUCK CASTO: MALE project ahead

--
Yes. So, we're trying to
PARTICIPANT:
18
19 2C 21 22 23 24 25
CHUCK CASTO:
Right. -and do what you're
MALE PARTICIPANT: suggesting. CHUCK perfect. I CASTO: Yes,
and
think
that's
think you can go to the Prime Minister or "Look, we don't know if but if you do, you're here is
the Ambassador and say, going to
lose Unit 2 or not,
NEAL R. GROSS
"I .U-AT1
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31 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 11 1 13 1 1 1 17 with you. leave it how hear know, figure whipsaw, they're the outcome." MALE PARTICIPANT: we have given you in And that's what we hope
that piece of paper. Yes. other us Yes, and I don't know when but, and they you I'll
CHUCK CASTO: getting and the
anecdotal, over up there, here,
something we're
running getting But,
just
stood
that out.
you know,
what's causing that
but I would rather give the bounding scenario and move to something more
and some likely scenarios stable. But, anyhow,
I just wanted to air that out I'll
That was just my initial impression. at that.
1 2 2 21 22 23 24 CHUCK CASTO:
25
NEAL R. GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1202) 234-4433 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
32 MALE weren't. bullets of PARTICIPANT: No, we heard they
And what we did is

--
we put together a set of
CHUCK CASTO: MALE
Yes.
--
PARTICIPANT:
CHUCK CASTO:
I'm sorry
--
MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO:
Go ahead. Marty. I meant
I'm sorry,
MALE PARTICIPANT: heard, we heard something that
Oh. is
Yes,
well,
what we
kind of halfway in
between, hearing.
and this may be the same thing that you're We heard at the :111" a
--
KS>
CHUCK CASTO:
Absolutely,
and we'll work
NEAL R.GROSS
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33 1 2 3 work 5 look, with on that and see what the holdup is MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: the Ambassador Yes. I can there.
And that's something and, you know, say,
"Hey,
this is
important to get a more precise estimate
of where we're going with the Americans." 7 8 MALE PARTICIPANT: that we sent toe Yes, and we have a We could send it
-document
to you.
Are you --
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 All right. was in so, I'll
CHUCK CASTO:
I'll
get it
fromo And
the conference room just as I walked out. get it MALE from 01 PARTICIPANT: Okay. Sounds
good.
And
until
you
te
us
otherwise,
we'll
continue to send things t* CHUCK CASTO:
fl
Yes,
email address. and I think we should room certainly conference all Then, that. you
be stood up with a working conference by morning our time. room So, know, now with eventually,
They're wiring that and internet and
computers
we'll have
access
to it.
we can cc all of us. MALE PARTICIPANT: Okay. So, I think for
right now let's
just check. a
Did we send this to aDC of pieces of paper we
There's
couple
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34
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 about And this probably ought to send you via latest you Operations a Center status which one is update. have We'll been our send
also
two-pager
which would
titled,
"NRC Talking Points". CHUCK CASTO: MALE dose Okay. We've we've been sent just talking tocon? talking
PARTICIPANT: assessment is what that
the
other piece
Chris was
about,
the one-pager on why we nee So, there are four things that I would
11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 21 22 23 24 25
like you to make sure you have -CHUCK CASTO: MALE background. CHUCK CASTO: be, Right, right. And we should Yes, I'll
--
do it. just for your
PARTICIPANT:
we're just about all here.
We have one member of in. And, then,
the group I think coming in we have a conference room. dosimeters. We have TLDs.
soon or is
And we have KI. So, we're in
We have good shape
with team protection,
that kind of stuff.
And the Embassy has been really good about getting us supplies and printers and all that. So,
there's been outstanding support. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: NEALR.GROSS

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Good,
good. I'm
Just as an aside,
35 personally a little 2 worried about Jim and Tony and the
hours that they've been working. CHUCK CASTO: some crew rest. MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes, yes. Yes, we've got to get them
3
4
6
7 8 9 IC 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21
CHUCK CASTO:
And we've got to figure that we've
out for everybody because we can't all start -all flown over here. 24 hours. the team, So,
We can't all start and just work
one of the things in my organization of
I've got to figure who I can get crew rest and out people. MARTY VIRGILIO: Yes. I okay? personally want
and cycle in
to work the hours you're working, CHUCK CASTO: Right.
MARTY VIRGILIO: and I'll
That's why I'm here now,
shift to adjust to be with you. CHUCK CASTO: Okay. to And, you Marty, just in the WHO
case,
know but
can can I
get get
through your
(phonetic),
your
cell,
personal
cell phone number?

MARTY VIRGILIO: Sure.
22
23
CHUCK CASTO:
All right.
---
MARTY VIRGILIO:
24
25
CHUCK CASTO:
Okay.
--
MARTY VIRGILIO:
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36
1
2 3
4
CHUCK CASTO: MARTY VIRGILIO: talked,

floor --
All right. Bill Borchardt and I have
and so I sort of left my role back on the 17th
5
6
CHUCK CASTO:
MARTY
Right.
-and I'm here to
VIRGILIO:
7 8 9 10 1i 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 2 25
support you. CHUCK CASTO: Well, and I do want to get a then, get them to the
briefing from Jim and Tony and, hotel, and they can be part of I'm sure I'll
the second shift that work for quite some I'm
we -- I'm fine now. time.
But I do need to worry about crew rest.
going to take the duplication that in each of that. MALE assume that PARTICIPANT: going to half,
that we have and split
and we'll just work to allow shifts for that we have, something like
the disciplines
Okay. try to
I'm work
going the
to
you're
days,
daytime in Japan. CHUCK CASTO: Yes. That is probably where
MALE PARTICIPANT: you would be most effective. CHUCK CASTO: Marty on midnight shift. (Laughter.) NEAL R. GROSS Yes.
Hey,
get
to
put
That's great.
37 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 MARTY VIRGILIO: the alternative. CHUCK CASTO: Yes. I could be there and you That's okay. I recognize
MARTY VIRGILIO: could be here. (Laughter.)
9S
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 2 2 23 24 2 helpful. great. CHUCK We'll CASTO: just do And a so, that right would to be the priorities, eventually, MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: So, Right. I think I got the And we
and I will convey that to the team. I think what we're at thinking least is that
would keep a live connection,
for a while, when
right to the Ops Center from our conference room, we get it stood up. So,
we would establish a bridge
to the conference room. MALE PARTICIPANT: Okay. That would be
bridge
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38
I
conference room. Yes, hopefully, we are getting information I don't know if we are
2 3 4
from the back door from WANO ---
out of those meetings that they're having. MALE PARTICIPANT: If you're not, let me
know and we'll use
7
8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 don't know
CHUCK CASTO: if you all
Yes. have
I mean, been
if
you
--
I
any
getting
information out the back door. MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: No. No. be a if way, if we
That may
can't actually get a seat at the table, be willing or we find it acceptable
they would to get the
information out the back door -MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: feeding us, and give us CNN. LE PARTICIPANT: Yes a reed. -Yes, yes. and get them they call us than watching
16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
from WANO,
after they leave the meeting, a briefing, that's better
NEAL R. GROSS
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39 CHUCK Marty, 3 if CASTO: Well, and I don't know,
you want to think about having an executive you know, the federal
call with IAEA and INPO and DOE, family plus INPO or WANO, bit. Maybe us closer
and just strategize a little between there the is industry and what
connections knowledge
6 7 8 9 1 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
and
and pool
what
resources there are. MALE PARTICIPANT: door for us today, opened that something
and, as a matter of fact, he has made
for you to consider:
the offer to send
somebody over there to work for you. CHUCK CASTO: a good idea. MALE then, tomorrow
--
I actually think that that's
PARTICIPANT:
I'll
close
with
CHUCK CASTO:
Yes. -or later today. there's knowledge I a lot that of we all
MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK industry could resource and CASTO: out I there
think and
harvest,
rather
than --
mean we're
smart people, can get and
but the more eyes on the thing that we the experience, you know, tell particularly you the other in Reactor you
from our Mark 1 sources -place, Safety Marty. Course, You know, that 800
and I'll
the Perspectives course and
that NUREG,
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40 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 lengthy, walks models know, I don't know but it if is you all have been dead-on. I mean looking at it follows in and
that or not,
this event dead-on. that NUREG. You
Everything that's going on is right down through it
can walk
see all the considerations. And MELCORE, MAAP, all those computer
can be brought Lab.
to bear on this So, to hook in
from the Lab, the National
from the National Lab, NEL,
to do some modeling --
and I don't know if
we have time for that -these hundred, scenarios, well, you
but they've already run all know, MAAP, and there's a
not a hundred.
I'm sorry.
There are a modeled
number of
computer models
that
have already
this event for BWR Mark 1 containment. And I read the whole NUREG, on my flight over here. all these events which is quite
And that thing just So, if we
down
perfectly.
don't have that in briefed on it, course helpful. And, to come or if
the Ops Center and people are not we have an instructor for the 800 the Ops Center, that would be
into
then,
look at the references you know, the
in
that
NUREG and those core codes, got codes that will model
because they've core in the
molten
drywell. NEALR. GROSS

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41 MALE PARTICIPANT: You know, Pete Lyons in And to
DOE has been just itching to find a niche here. 3 4 if there's some specific scenario you want INEL
run, just let us know and we can reach out to Pete. CHUCK CASTO: I would just ask for their know, they've that got can all run it the this for of
6 7 8 9 10 1i 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 2 2 23 24 2
recommendations. science. event, Peach sites. And, out, They that Bottom.
You have run
these this
codes event.
have
They
ran
They ran
this
event
for a number
you know,
you may just want to reach to reach out and ask them are based on MELCORE, and I but have
and we may just want
what their recommendations don't know, there's a
I can't remember all those code names, lot of different ones. Do they
recommendations about the crust that forms and keeping water on it, and keeping the right pH, And, you know, if all that stuff.
we end up with a molten
core and then you talk about the time for the concrete to disassociate, you know, that NUREG says it's a
couple of inches an hour, that Mark 1 containment containments we have, is
you know. the worst it's
And,
of course, the
one of all
and
literally,
you know,
this NUREG tells you that in going to lose containment.
a station blackout you're There's no doubt about it.
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42 1 2 that is -is But, anyhow, I just would highlight that NUREG. Perspectives that
a valuable resource, it It 6150, CR-6150,
I think it's on Nuclear It's
Safety?
completely walks all of It's
this down.
already been thought out. 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 1 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 priority, That's ask do is tell looked at, modeled, So,
already been reviewed,
everything.
the one thing the NUREG doesn't really to stop it, how to mitigate it,
you how
other than keeping water on it. But the Lab may have some recommendations. MALE PARTICIPANT: the next shift working on that, Lyons. CHUCK CASTO: Yes. Yes. So, I would have Right. So, we'll get
to engage through Pete
somebody from WANO join us to open up that line. MALE an action PARTICIPANT: Yes, we'll shift, follow up. too. And
item for the next
INPO
to identify somebody
to come over and join
your team. CHUCK CASTO: And, then, get WANO to brief
us out the back door out of those meetings. MALE PARTICIPANT: going to try to get you in CHUCK CASTO: in Yes. Well, first, I'm
the meetings. Yes, the EOC. well,
Okay? yes, that's a
and get us
I mean,
you know,
NEAL R. GROSS
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43 that would be the ideal. MALE PARTICIPANT: sure I can do. Yes, that one I'm not
MALE the people, yes.
PARTICIPANT:
The
equipment
is
and
CHUCK CASTO:
Yes. But I'm not sure where.

--
MALE PARTICIPANT:
We think they're at the air base CHUCK something. MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: CASTO:
FERMAC
(phonetic)
or
Yokota maybe. I was talking
I'm sorry,
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(202) 234-4433
44
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2Q
2
here.
I'm sorry.
Go ahead. They may at the Yokota
MALE PARTICIPANT: Air Base. CHUCK CASTO: it's Allen, right? MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: me he's part of, Yes, a Yes,
and it's,
basically --
It's
Allen.
Allen was just telling little is. mini-FERMAC or
basically, what it
something, need.
I think is
And that's what we
And, team over FERMAC, come. so here, that
also, our
you know, team,
we need to get this up with DOE in a
hooked
we can get those readings
when they
When they start coming in, they start coming in,
whenever we get them then they can feed
flying and
that information to our team.
And we're going to need
somebody who can analyze that information and help us independently recommendations. MALE PARTICIPANT: know, ideally, your role, it, See, if this is you can why, get you the verify protective action
22 23 24
Ambassador of the U.S.
to endorse Government
would be to coordinate all or at least be on
activities,
some sort of a pivot point for this. CHUCK CASTO: Right. Right. Yes. See,
NEALM.GROSS
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45 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 2 22 23 24 25 in here; like ASAP. CHUCK CASTO: Okay. I've got we need to

--
we
need
the
fed and,
family, then,
you
know, in
the
fed I
family keep and
organization, wanting to say
bringing
WANO.
"INPO".
But get WANO plugged in
get the National Labs plugged in. MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: that's already been Yes. I think, given hate to keep
Particularly, and I
modeled,
repeating myself, modeled,
but given
that that's
already been
I've got to believe that the Lab can give us
some information. MALE PARTICIPANT: an action item for next shift. CHUCK CASTO: Okay. We'll get, yes, we'll And we'll get that as
MALE PARTICIPANT:
get somebody from INPO to come on over and join you. And that will be the link to the U.S. industry and
their capability. CHUCK CASTO: Right, right. But, somehow,
1 need to
talk
to you guys
the Special Assistant to the Ambassador needs
to see me here. MALE PARTICIPANT: NEAL R.GROSS

All right.
Before you
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46 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 1 12 13 14 1 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Japan. CHUCK CASTO: MALE Okay. And DTRA is just exactly. but I'm I Defense pumps go, let me make you quickly aware of one other item. CHUCK CASTO: Okay. About 30 hours ago, made available the four
MALE PARTICIPANT: Threat Reduction
Agency
that are three hours by ground from the plant, As of
1200 to 1800 gallons per minute up to 150 psi. about four hours ago,
the work from DTRA was those are
sitting on the dock waiting for TEPCO to pick them up. So, they're getting a little frustrated.
They just want to know where to take these things. CHUCK CASTO: Where are they at? Where
are they at right now, MALE
the four pumps? I'm not sure where
PARTICIPANT:
think the folks over in probably in the
the Embassy know, Akoska (phonetic)
thinking
area, but I'm not sure. CHUCK CASTO: MALE Okay. But they're there in
PARTICIPANT:
PARTICIPANT:
waiting for TEPCO to tell them where to take them. CHUCK CASTO: Okay. Well, you know,
there's a lot of other things,
there's a lot of other but I'll worry
assets that need to be brought to bear, NEAL R,GROSS

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47 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1C 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 21 22 23 2 2 want WANO Team, I got to need a about that down the road. MALE PARTICIPANT: make you aware of it. CHUCK CASTO: batch point, Yes. a I think they're going batch point. I Yes. I just wanted to
concrete
think they're going to need lots of lead. are kind of recovery

could
--
And those but if we
things down the road,
MALE
PARTICIPANT:
But
the
pumps
we're
thinking can help get water where it's CHUCK CASTO: that. But, yes. Yes. Yes. Yes,
needed. No, I got that. also that too,
there's
there's things even further down the road there, that we have to start lining up, to start lining that stuff up. MALE PARTICIPANT: The Reactor
but we just need time
Safety
I was just talking to them, and they're starting You know, based on the TMI experience, I mean there was
to brainstorm.
we had wastewater processing plants. just a whole list of things Yes.

-in
CHUCK CASTO:
MALE PARTICIPANT:
the long-term we
need to start thinking about. CHUCK so CASTO: is And, Exelon Marty, is our the reason I
bad
biggest
BWR
NEAL R.GROSS
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48 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Reactor We'll that"). CHUCK Safety CASTO: And some the Perspectives after on they works BWRs. for Yes, yes. CHUCK them, CASTO: but Yes, the TMI operator, he of (phonetic), operator, them. and they have ex-TMI operators think George what's working for the guy
And I
his name,
that was -MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK no. MALE CASTO: (Inaudible)? Yes. Not Mortensen
The operator that TMI -PARTICIPANT: Oh, oh, I'm sorry.
they're
our biggest operator
And if
we can,
through WANO, but,
I know WANO wants We need
to be the industry conduit, to get, here you more are. And the you know,
through WANO,
people like Exelon plugged into us some recommendations kinds of from them, The
and be getting know, some
advice,
those
things.
eyes on the task we can get,
the better off we
Reactor
Safety
Team,
would
recommend they take a hard look at that NUREG. MALE (inaudible, PARTICIPANT: possibly "get Yes, we'll to do deal that. with
them
and give us
thoughts
review that. NEAL R.GROSS

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49 MALE PARTICIPANT: 2 3 4 as an action. CHUCK CASTO: Okay. I'm going to go see Okay, we'll take that
this Assistant to the Ambassador and talk with him. MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: you soon. I'll I'll All right. be talking. I'll call
1
6 7
call you back. Thanks. Don't worry. Just do
MALE PARTICIPANT: 9 MALE PARTICIPANT: 1 11 12 13 14 1 what you've got to do. CHUCK CASTO:
All right.
Thank you,
sir.
MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: Yes.
All righty.
16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
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50
I
2 3 4
(CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) MALE PARTICIPANT: Chuck Casto coming Stand by. up
on the ET conference as the Ops Officer. CHUCK CASTO: I'm here. Hi, Chuck.
MALE PARTICIPANT: 6 7 8 CHUCK conversation was CASTO: to show me a
Hey, letter
that from
little
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Chuck, I guess, MALE PARTICIPANT: communication from Naval about that. CHUCK CASTO: So, there's another player, You know, we had some tonight all
Reactors earlier
that we need to get coordinated with. MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes, we have been,
early on. MALE PARTICIPANT: NEALR. GROSS

I don't remember where
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51 1 2 3 4 you were at the time. the Naval Reactors, You may have been flying. well, one of their ships, But the
Ronald Reagan,
was picking up radiation -Right, right. -a hundred miles
CHUCK CASTO: MALE offshore.
PARTICIPANT:
And we were interacting with Steve Trautman time. honestly, he
from Naval Reactors at that point in CASTO: Yes,
8CHUCK 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 little bit
and,
walked to the Ambassador Office. this letter in front of me, and
You know, I had to So,
he throws scan it
quickly, able
and he took it
away from me.
I wasn't
to look --
all I did notice was it
was from the
head of the Technology Department from Naval Reactors. MALE PARTICIPANT: Okay. We can follow
with that through our liaison team -CHUCK CASTO: MALE more Yes. -is and it find that out a
PARTICIPANT: about what
they're
modeling.
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52
2 3 4
MALE
PARTICIPANT:
Well,
we'll
get
our
liaison team following up on that. CHUCK CASTO: Yes. So, you've got it. Naval Reactors,
MALE PARTICIPANT: 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 titled, the CHUCK CASTO: Right. the Office of Naval Reactors, pager that we sent. CHUCK CASTO: Yes.
Chuck,
they asked for the one-
MALE PARTICIPANT: and told DOE they could give
And we went through DOE it to them. But that
might be where they got the 50 miles CHUCK CASTO: Yes.
(inaudible).
MALE PARTICIPANT: and figure that out. CHUCK CASTO: that piece of information, Yes.
But we'll get with them
So,
just give you
and then you'll handle it. Yes. think the letter was was, in you Naval know, the
MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: title Head of for
And I the guy
Department
Technology NEALR. GROSS
Reactors,
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53
I
2 3 4
whoever that is. MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: Okay. Thanks, guys.
All right. Thanks. Hey,
MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT:
the
(inaudible)
6 7
Navy and the Reactor
Safety Team are both coming in.
Do you want to (inaudible) for a minute. Have you got a second, Chuck? CHUCK CASTO: Yes, I.do. Okay. Pat (inaudible, possibly
1 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 2 23 2 2 Go ahead, "Island").
MALE PARTICIPANT: PAT: Hi, Chuck.
MALE PARTICIPANT: Pat. PAT:
Go
ahead.
Go ahead.
Did you have anything you wanted to -No. Just, Chuck, we got the
information on what your suggestions were. reference materials we have been using
And those here in the
Incident Response Center for a couple of days. CHUCK CASTO: PAT: NUREG CR-6150. CHUCK CASTO: PAT: we're looking know, for, Yes. I guess
---
Good. the
That's the 800 course material,
We've got that information. do you have anything else?
you that
I know you just got on the ground there NEAL R.GROSS

54
I 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12
we could help you with? CHUCK CASTO: would reach out to Yes, that's what I said. those I
the Lab on some of
models
that they have and get some recommendations Lab about projection on dose. it I'll tell
from the you, from
what I know and what I've seen,
doesn't have a good
outcome in a station blackout for this length of time. PAT: CHUCK assume it's Right. CASTO: So, you
--
could
just
about
going to go its PAT:

CHUCK
course
Right.
CASTO: -with the Mark 1
13 14 15 16 1 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
containment.
Now
the
question But, to
is,
you
know,
what
happens to the vessel? is probably got not to that going
you know, last at
the containment So, models then, that And I
all. other
you've
start
running
some in
they have
they reference
that NUREG.
think the Lab can probably, studies. They can
you know, probably kind of
they've done the give you some you're
recommendations
about
what
releases
talking about and how far. PAT: CHUCK Okay. CASTO: Yes, I think what we're of the
looking for here is, distance, you know?
what's the outer reaches
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55
1
2 3 4 the Lab.
PAT:
Okay. See what you can get from
CHUCK CASTO:
They're really smart people there. PAT: TOM: Okay. This is Tom Lyle (phonetic). that GE Hitachi has got an
Are you aware EOC stood up in Tokyo?
CHUCK CASTO: 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 whomever in called head, us no, contact
No.
That's another player
we would like to get tied into somehow. MALE PARTICIPANT: for you in We've Tokyo. requested a
phone number
And our GE
contact here,
Wilmington
(phonetic),
was going to try
to get that number and a name,
so that we could call
up and introduce ourselves directly. CHUCK CASTO: Yes, I would love to get
somebody embedded in GE as well. MALE PARTICIPANT: Eva Yes, is they haven't her
back yet. they still
(phonetic)
shaking
haven't called us back.
But the
promised to give us that information. CHUCK CASTO: we're talking to, then. Right. if Marty can call Then, we need to elevate who
I mean,
the upper reaches of GE, NEAL R.GROSS
forget about the
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56 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 of me.
liaison person. MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: All right. Okay.
Call the upper reaches of GE there, because that not
and see how we can get embedded in would be as good as being in quite as good as EOC, Thank you.
TEPCO,
or wherever,
but pretty good.
I don't know how to tell you to get a hold

They've confiscated
--
FEMALE BlackBerry? MALE BlackBerry?
PARTICIPANT:
Do
you
have
your
PARTICIPANT:
Have
you
got
your
CHUCK CASTO: they have confiscated our
Yes,
but,
for
today anyhow, at the guard
BlackBerrys
shack and our computers. that fixed, but, laptops inside.

So , is
The Embassy is
trying to get
for now, we don't have BlackBerrys or
the point of contact,
you know,
20 21 22 23 24 25
is
going to be the point of contact. MALE PARTICIPANT: We have a phone number
for Amy's BlackBerry. CHUCK CASTO: this point -and what I'll Yes, Amy orI, do is it? I'll because at just call in
every hour or so.
What is
We're on the hour now.
NEALR. GROSS
(202) 234-4433
57 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 see if hour, Then, start half. CHUCK CASTO: Okay. So, So, if I'll call
--
So,
maybe, in
Marty,
if
you're okay with it,
I'll
just
call in
the next hour. MARTY VIRGILIO: Yes, that would be good. because we'll a hour and a
we will get to check in before -doing turnover here at 6:30, in
MARTY VIRGILIO: that would be great. CHUCK CASTO: I'll
you check in
in an
call you in
an hour and and
there's anything changed and what you have,
we'll share information. Now about this I understand

--
13
1 1 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 around ET. that.
--
Allen, to
help be a
me
out
again
there's
going
flight
tomorrow,
the FERMAC at 9:00 a.m.? MALE PARTICIPANT: (Inaudible)

--
that's
supposed to be flying over the areas around MALE PARTICIPANT: We don't
seem to know
CHUCK CASTO: Between
ET,
they're going to flying they're in covering between the morning.
Tokyo,
Tokyo and the plant at 9:00 a.m. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO:
We haven't heard that. We haven't heard that. Well, I'm sitting here
NEALR.GROSS
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58 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 great. MALE PARTICIPANT: 1

1 -what?
--
talking to --
Allen is
the man
--
ALLEN:
Allen Remick
(phonetic). is the man on He says
CHUCK CASTO: that,
Allen Remick
and I'm sitting right here next to him.
they got the green light to go plant at 9:00 a.m. MALE PARTICIPANT:
from Tokyo up to the
That's
great.
That's
That is
very good. But that's
CHUCK CASTO:
12,
AMS
(phonetic).
15 hours from now.
1 13 14 1 1 17 18 19 20
21 22
MALE
PARTICIPANT: interested Yes.
Right.
Right.
But
we'll be, obviously,
(inaudible). Okay. I'll call you
CHUCK CASTO: in one hour.
MALE PARTICIPANT: we can get that information? CHUCK CASTO: that information in or something?
ALLEN: analysis of it Yes, we
Is
there some way that
Yes,
Allen,
you can get me
the morning after they download it
can
--
we
will
do
an
and give you --
23 24 2 SITREP?
CHUCK
CASTO:
You're
going
to
give
ALLEN:
That's what I'm here for. NEAL R. GROSS
59
1
CHUCK CASTO: a great guy. done. get it He's
Yes. to
Allen's the man. get me the a SITREP
He's when
going they
3
4 5 6
they're morning,
When
get
data I'll
tomorrow get a
downloaded and analyze it,
SITREP from him. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK hours, and, then, CASTO: So, Great. Great. Thank you. they'll do it in 15
7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19
up.
sometime in
the next 24 you'll have
some analysis. ALLEN: probably be, well, I can't now. CHUCK CASTO: ALLEN: Yes. I'm going to guess it will
I'm not going to guess.
I'm sorry,
I'm not quite sure how they're set
CHUCK
CASTO:
Sometime
during
the
day
tomorrow we should have a SITREP on between Tokyo and the site.

MALE PARTICIPANT: Good.
20
21 22 23 24 25
CHUCK CASTO: an hour.
Okay.
I'll
talk to you in
MALE PARTICIPANT:
All right.
MALE
PARTICIPANT:
All
right.
Thanks,
NEAL R.GROSS
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60
Chuck. CHUCK CASTO: Thank you, gentlemen. Thank
you.
11
12
13
1E
18 19
20
21
22
23
24 25
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61
1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 calling is with (inaudible) so ago, of the
(CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) DAN DORMAN: JOHN MONAGER: DAN DORMAN: JOHN MONAGER: DAN DORMAN: JOHN MONAGER: DAN DORMAN: JOHN MONAGER: Hey, John? Yes? I've got the Executive Team. Hey, This is who's this, Dan Dorman. Mike?
Hey, Dan, how you doing? Okay. How are you? Pretty good. all except
Pretty good.
Hey, we all just got over here, for the guy on (inaudible) DAN DORMAN: JOHN from TTT.
Right. And we arrived at the
MONAGER:
Embassy about an hour,
hour and a half or the lay quite
and we've been getting some briefings, land, et cetera. And it's actually
interesting, quite busy. But, with that, I guess the reason we're
they've invited the NRC to go to a meeting at an is eight hour the o'clock and a half, here, a which meeting who is is with the
TEPCO
approximately TEPCO, which
licensee,
and NISA,
regulatory body. They are recommendations looking for insights, guidance,
from the NRC for all NEAL R. GROSS

four spent-fuel
(202) 234-4433
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62 pools for the Daiichi site, Daiichi site, the C-H-I
(phonetic) site. 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 and 4, water. there, answer, down, C-H-I one. MALE PARTICIPANT: JOHN MONAGER: Yes. Unit 1 and 2 is boiling MALE PARTICIPANT: JOHN MONAGER: That's Daiichi. Daiichi site, yes, the
and Unit 3 and 4 is
having zirc/water reaction.
They believe there is The explosion -leveled the walls,
essentially no walls on Unit 3. Unit 4. The explosion
I'm sorry --
leveled the structure for the Unit the way down to the approximate the fuels. So, there's no
4 spent-fuel pool all level of the
bottom of
water in
there whatsoever. MALE PARTICIPANT: And no ability to
retain water. JOHN MONAGER: Someone et cetera. of course, has And no ability about dropping to retain sand in
talked
To us, is water,
I mean the simple, water, water. I guess, all three
obvious
You know,
there is,
Units of
1, 3,
the reactor building, So,
those had at
the explosion. least for Units reach
then, you've got the question, 3, you know, would
1 and
the water But,
actually
through all
the massive debris?
NEALR. GROSS
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63 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1e 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 21 22 23 24 2 guess in there so where it is, want is Unit 2, there is a partial hole cut in It's of there it aerial fire the top of the
secondary containment. you know, some type
would seem like, or (inaudible) there. you may
truck, you know,
just spraying that nozzle in So, how far --
MALE PARTICIPANT: to get some clarification,
but our understanding
that partial hole is JOHN
on the wall? It could be. No matter if you got
MONAGER:
I guess the thought would be,
some type of aerial lift
fire truck with a nozzle -They have cut the hole explode from hydrogen
MALE PARTICIPANT: that it wouldn't
like the other two units. MALE from what PARTICIPANT: we've seen, Right, we've right. some And I
seen
things
that we infer that that's on the vertical wall of the building. Let me go back to your original question. I've got some other got John Monager Embassy. half with on folks who came in here. We've the
(phonetic) on the phone over at
They've got a meeting in about an hour and a TEPCO what and NISA to do who are the seeking Unit 1 our best 4
advice
for
through
(inaudible). Unit 1 and 2 are boiling down. NEALR.GROSS

(202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
Unit 3 and
64 1 2 3 4 4 are experiencing zirc/water reactions. that the explosion in Unit 4 has left They believe the Unit 4
spent-fuel pool with no ability to retain water. believe that, essentially, the walls of that
They spent-
fuel pool are gone. 6 7 8 MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Correct. So, they are looking
for our best advice on how to address that situation. They're talking about things like dumping sand on it.
1 1 1 13 14 15 16
17 -is
JOHN military.
MONAGER:
Right.
That's
from
the
Even though we said an hour and a half, probably have to leave here at 7:30. an hour. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT:
there any immediate --
we
So,
it
gives us
Okay. All right. So, let us
18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 reaction is
MALE
PARTICIPANT: sand or
Well, dirt
my would
immediate be the
dump If
(inaudible).
you confirm the walls are gone and it you've got to cover it up with
doesn't retain water, (inaudible).
How would you do that? What it's happens a week
from now with that sand?
The heat,
just going to
NEALR. GROSS
(202) 234-4433
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65 1 2 3 4 up. 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 21 22 23 24 25 there's just that has insulate it. turns sand in I mean I don't know when sand melts and but I don't know if you want the
into glass, there.
MALE PARTICIPANT: Let's do a little
Well,
we'll go look it and we'll get
research on it
back with you. MALE PARTICIPANT: the different (Inaudible) possible last night for
options
(inaudible). MALE PARTICIPANT: were two options. if Yes, the dirt and sand I mean, instead
What I would add to that, a viable option,
we find out that that is
of helicopters or buckets of sand, things, them. there's sand pumps. They
there are actually fill beaches with
And we need to bring those resources to bear if there. Hey, let's go back to they have the
you're pumping sand in

.
MALE PARTICIPANT: For the three
the sand. roof any
units,
entire getting
and all sand
that debris on top. through is that roof. 4
You're not (Inaudible) that I guess
potentially
getting sand
the No.
they're all the way down to the side of the fuel pool, right? I mean, |I M it looks like
just tremendous debris on top of these spentNEAL R. GROSS

(202) 234-4433
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66 fuel 2 3 4 talking 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 there? MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: JOHN MONAGER: an obvious answer, So, Yes, Yes. you know, boron, yes, I mean it is we're still here. just
--
pools.
So,
don't
think sand's
going
through
that. And my battery's going dead. MALE about PARTICIPANT: Unit 4. Well, The we're ones only can
sand for
other
take water,
right? MALE PARTICIPANT: If that's our
recommendation. MALE PARTICIPANT: can get water in them, Yes. I them. mean, if you
get water in Yes.
Water
and
boron
or
MALE
PARTICIPANT:
Are
you
guys
still
the water,
et cetera. or if it
But I is not have
guess the question is, possible, but, to me,
you know,
the question is,
you know,
we provided any it's is
recommendations
to date?
You know,
my understanding that everything we've been doing just information-gathering. And looking through our charter, you know, NEAL R. GROSS
(202) 234-4433
67 1 2 3 4
there was not reluctance,
but the notion to make sure
mm
mmmUm
mUm
-
-m
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-m
-mmm-
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1ig',>% 9"4A.AA.".%"
WA.RHINr.TON
n.r.
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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 II
68
12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
25
NEAL R.GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., NW.
69
2
3
4
M-
M-
5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 telling a list of interesting, questions,
MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Right. I mean, what's
K>
these
seem
like
very
elementary
though. MALE PARTICIPANT: things Well, can we give them what could work?
and priority-wise
That's all we want. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: anything. We'r Okay. Yes. I mean we're not
them to do
e giving
them our
best advice.
NEAL R. GROSS
70 1 2 3 4 5 know. JOHN MONAGER: So, guys, we're talking JOHN MONAGER: MALE Right, right. That's about all we
PARTICIPANT:
about 40-45 minutes? MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes, and I think, in
7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 1 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2
the meantime,
you guys just need to square it
with the
Ambassador as to how you want to do this. JOHN MONAGER:

Yes, yes,
All right.
All right.
listening --
MALE PARTICIPANT: just as a secondary question,
When you talk to them, what about Unit 5?
Because we had seen a report from IAEA that indicated that Unit 5 pool -specific. it it It was we think it's the pool; it wasn't and
(inaudible, possibly "leveled"), to that pool, but we're
wasn't specific is the pool, from
inferring
was boiling down. IAEA, to we're within a
And extrapolating couple of hours
the data here
of getting
the point where
they're exposing
fuel in Unit 5. And there was some indication in that they they
had an operable diesel generator could use to pump water to Unit 5, any confirmation secondary to,
Unit 6 that
but we haven't seen So, the
that that's actually happening. obviously, Units 3 and 4 are
NEAL R. GROSS
(202) 234-4433
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71 1 2 3 4 (inaudible) gear. But if they have any current
information on Unit 5,
that would be good to know. Okay. All right.
JOHN MONAGER:
7 8 9 1 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nea!rgross.com
So,
the question is,
do we want to rerun
some of the last calculations -MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: a Mr. Roberts Hang on a second. No, go ahead. I just talked to
Okay.
(phonetic) at Naval Reactors. Okay. And what he provided is
JOHN MONAGER:
MALE PARTICIPANT: that Naval Reactors
put together some talking points the
which were not necessarily intended to be this is dose or broad points. consequences And or any of their that, is but,
basically, three
dialog.
dialog
around
72
MALE PARTICIPANT: same email.
It
sounds like it's
the
You're saying they're talking points. MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes. Yes, it seems like the
MALE PARTICIPANT: same thing back here.
9
10 11 12 13
was a talking point. MALE PARTICIPANT: Was a talking point,
but the point that was was, if they're power,
trying to be made around that their attention point, restoring what they
focusing that
15 16 1 18 19
offsite
and
particular
will end up with is hundreds of miles.
a problem that could extend out to
MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE intended to be. being lost in PARTICIPANT:
Okay. That was what it was is
29 2
22 23 24 25
The context of this conversation
translation. PARTICIPANT: It definitely sounds
MALE like it.
MALE PARTICIPANT:
So,
what is
it
they're
suggesting to avoid hundreds of miles?
NEAL R.GROSS
73 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 21 22 23 24 You know, do for you? JOHN MONAGER: we're trying to I think that's it do the turnover. for now. We're And they sense? JOHN MONAGER: Yes, that makes sense. And we have heard that point, it MALE PARTICIPANT: to bring more resources in MALE To bring more people,
there. On that particular
PARTICIPANT: focus
was don't
on restoring
offsite power Focus on the
because that's something down the line. four pumps at that we provided
for you that are sitting
Yokosuka Naval Base Station that you haven't done
anything with. MALE PARTICIPANT: John, does that make
MALE PARTICIPANT:
some of those pumps are (inaudible) -MALE mention (inaudible). have (inaudible). MALE PARTICIPANT: John, what else can we PARTICIPANT: They didn't
They mentioned the four that we
going to be working here pretty much 24/7. have another center called the -MALE PARTICIPANT: JOHN MONAGER:
Called the Conti. -Conti. It is a
government EOF (phonetic),
essentially.
NEAL R.GROSS
74 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 going down. MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes, if you could call right now. MALE PARTICIPANT: JOHN MONAGER: We We've got a -do have a land line Tony down person, still or MALE PARTICIPANT: basically. So, we're going to have Correct. It's the
Prime Minister's EOC, JOHN
MONAGER:
there tonight, if not two,
and we'll have at up here tonight.
least one But we're
trying to work through that. MALE PARTICIPANT: JOHN MONAGER: Okay. up now with also. right, we'll talk the
Chuck is
Ambassador going through some items, MALE to you guys later, from us. JOHN MONAGER: No. So, PARTICIPANT: All
then, unless you need anything else
guess,
if
you
call back, you're going to call my cell phone? MALE PARTICIPANT: a cell phone? JOHN MONAGER: Yes, we're on a cell phone (Inaudible). You have
the Ops Center on your land line and get hooked up to the executive bridge in about a half an hour, we'll
give you our best thinking. NEAL R.GROSS

75 JOHN MONAGER: Yes. Actually, we've got a we'll just
2 3
4
land line now.
So,
when we hang up here,
go right into that for the ET bridge and just keep it going. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: JOHN Bye-bye. MONAGER: Fine. Great. All right. Thank you. Good enough.
5
6
7
8 9 1 1 121 13 14 1 16 17 18 19 20 21
22
23
24
25
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76
(CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) 2 3 4 talking MALE PARTICIPANT: points, not intended It to was be intended to be something is on
letterhead
to TEPCO or anything.
And there
a bit Fix
of frustration on the Naval Reactor the problem now, 7 8 9 10 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2C 2 22 23 24 25 about thank you very much,
(inaudible). not
(inaudible).
MALE PARTICIPANT: protective action, and
What are we going to do the like of If that, with
the current information (inaudible, (inaudible), (inaudible). MALE possibly and no
that we know? "knee-jerk")
they get a reaction but that's
water,
(inaudible),
PARTICIPANT:
know,
but
they
haven't really done anything with the (inaudible). MALE PARTICIPANT: We came down to
validate our (inaudible). MALE PARTICIPANT: I mean, actually, Now, with
that's what they're doing piecemeal anyway.

our update on the --
MALE PARTICIPANT: produced report at 33 percent and NHK reported NISA with
We also have the Kyotofuel damage the partial in Unit 2,
containment
failure. I'm thinking, do we want to and (inaudible, (inaudible)
possibly "run a 3-4 percent fuel pool) NEAL R. GROSS

(202) 234-4433
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77 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
13 percent
--
33 percent damage was reached? MALE PARTICIPANT: Maybe if term, to we have all of what are they be radically
those (inaudible) within the first going to do there? Is it
going
different? MALE PARTICIPANT: it From what they tell me,
won't be radically different. MALE PARTICIPANT: Tell me again, what
would be the conditions? MALE PARTICIPANT: Unit 2, Unit 2, 33
MALE PARTICIPANT:
MALE PARTICIPANT:
Thirty-three percent.
--
fuel
damage
14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
25
(inaudible, and 4,
possibly
"containment possibly
reached").
Units 3
(inaudible,
"uphold")
the 50 percent
that we've had. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Both of them? Both of them
(inaudible) with containment? MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: have is, if they wait No. No? No. (Inaudible).
But the problem that we tomorrow at nine
until
o'clock --
NEAL R.GROSS
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78 1 2 3 4 5 they've got,
into the air
(Inaudible). -and we know that
you know,
--
a bunch of stuff being put out
(Inaudible). The question is, do we
want to press the issue of (inaudible)? MALE PARTICIPANT: 9 3 and 4 have (inaudible, (Inaudible) "clear from John, reactions
possibly
going on"). 11 12 13 14 1 1 17 18 19 2 21 22 23 2 25 4 boiling recoverable? fuel leave is it,
What about Unit 1? MALE PARTICIPANT: Units 1 and 2 are
boiling down,
but they're not in play right now. MALE PARTICIPANT: Well, I wonder if the
uncovered at this point and whether they can get water in there. With the radiation
shields in
that area -MALE PARTICIPANT: And if they're not
boiled off yet,
how long until they are? Yes. I mean, are they
MALE PARTICIPANT:
MALE down, I
PARTICIPANT: think that

--
Well,
when that
these
are
could mean
they are
steaming off, but
Yes. That ought to be a high
NEAL R.GROSS
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79 1 2 3 4 going,. but
--
priority. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: if you have Right. Yes.
You might have one core three cores going
(inaudible)
MALE 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 priority, if yes. MALE inconceivable that
PARTICIPANT:
Keep
it
down
to
two,
PARTICIPANT: (inaudible) core --
mean
it's
MALE PARTICIPANT: feet of water above those. point of saying that,
There's a minimum of 23
They're now getting to the
"We need water.n? I don't think they -There was a minimum of
23 feet above them four days ago. MALE PARTICIPANT: (Laughter.) MALE PARTICIPANT: it's it's But (inaudible) to be a But they're just Right.
humanly possible. even possible.
wondering if
MALE PARTICIPANT: accessible one. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT:
And 1 may be the most
Yes. With the (inaudible)
structure over the top,
that may be the easiest one to
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80 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 there is about four, be done? I put water in. MALE PARTICIPANT: covering with dirt. mean I guess Yes, and we're talking can it even
I mean,
that's also
the challenge.
How do you get in MALE break a hole in
there to do it? PARTICIPANT: I think you've got to
the roof. Well, no. I mean, no,
MALE PARTICIPANT: no roof on (inaudible). MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: of equipment can you get in
No, Yes.
this is
4. what kind
I mean,
there to -(Inaudible). I think a good bet is
13
1 1 1 .1 18 19 maybe here.
(inaudible) coming from the pool. MALE PARTICIPANT: level? I think it's down here, It's probably
(inaudible, possibly "at this") MALE PARTICIPANT: Here. The question is, possibly "hand pump')? MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: efficiency in getting a fan in MALE PARTICIPANT: NEAL R.GROSS
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21 22 23 24 25
do you have a (inaudible,
Yes,
yes.
Do you have 10 percent there? If you had a
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE. N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701
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81 1 2 3 field in (inaudible, possibly "front-loader"), could you even
get close enough? MALE PARTICIPANT: What is the radiation
and around that? MALE PARTICIPANT: It's been 10 to if 11 you
6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2
(inaudible).
(Inaudible,
possibly
"The pump, in
could just get the pump and get one shot") there, you could pump it in. Yes. But it
the hose
MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: days to get the hoses. pumps pump"). need (inaudible,
might take them those sand material to
And I don't know if possibly "source
They
really don't
have any compressed air.
(Inaudible) they'll pump dirt out of the ground. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: that. to tell you, the another piece call, is Yes, yes.
(Inaudible). Okay. We can
(inaudible, possibly "run") What of information I wanted
we got
from
(inaudible)
they did get the plane up over the air base, have we detectable unable iodine and cesium in to get any
and they but for
the ground, values
were
quantitative
those. MALE PARTICIPANT: Okay.
NEAL R. GROSS
82 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 statement up further? then, (inaudible)? MALE PARTICIPANT: Do you want to mark it back to her. And, it with or 100, (inaudible, MALE PARTICIPANT: The air base is
possibly "150 miles west") MALE PARTICIPANT:
(inaudible). It's 75
I'm not sure. of (inaudible
but it's
directly west
"you").
Because it's
about the same radius from the plant. And if you need any more specifics on
that, what we've got -MALE running this. MALE PARTICIPANT: (inaudible), hear anything put in So, their the we're going to run (inaudible)? We PARTICIPANT: Okay. We'll start
didn't
about
(inaudible,
possibly
"plant"). MALE PARTICIPANT: Did we include any on
I'm going to give it
I'm doing the (inaudible). MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes. I'm going to put in a
that says NRC has been requested to provide
solutions to whatever the -MALE PARTICIPANT: Well, I think the
second page we ought sent, you know,
to identify the fact
that we've
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2
3 4
MALE
PARTICIPANT: Mr. Monager
This
the Headquarters is coming
Operations Officer, up on the ET bridge. Mr. MR.
(phonetic),
5 6
7
Monager,
are you there,
sir? sir.
MONAGER (phonetic):
Yes,
MALE PARTICIPANT: JOHN MONAGER:
All right. Hey, we were just
8
9 1 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21
22 assessment,
reestablishing a line, and we're just going to keep a line open. MALE PARTICIPANT: JOHN MONAGER: MALE John. JOHN MONAGER: We'll put it Okay. on mute, too. Okay.
Okay? Sounds good enough,
PARTICIPANT:
MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: have our key messages and
Thanks. we We the
On the second page, talking points. for why
recognize
that we have said a rationale
rad team needs to get (inaudible). In fact, our assessment, our new dose
and --
23 24 25 there?
(Inaudible). Hey, John, are you up
NEAL R.GROSS
84 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 probably you put music. JOHN going to MONAGER: have Yes. up. I think They're we're still it JOHN MONAGER: Yes, we're here. All right. you just I think if did, it's
MALE PARTICIPANT: on mute,
or whatever
to hang
setting up the phones here. MALE PARTICIPANT: All right. Okay. Okay. So, we'll give
9 1 12 1 13 1 1 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2
MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: JOHN MONAGER: you guys a buzz back. All right.
All right.
Thank you.
Bye-bye.
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85 (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 dynamic here. CHUCK phone CASTO: with Hey, the we just had a and very the (inaudible)? MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes. Marty, I have Chuck anything public, it's MALE anything about document Right theirs now, about PARTICIPANT: Do we want in to say
the protective the
actions,
the public guidelines? with what
protection
action
we say ours aren't
inconsistent
(inaudible,
possibly "were"). In the public document? Well, I'm sorry, the
sent out to all agencies,
which it
would
be expected to go public. And I don't or know just if leave we want to say in
different
the
points
(inaudible) right now. MALE PARTICIPANT: What is it, the
Casto coming on the bridge. MARTY VIRGILIO: Chuck, Okay.
are you there? Yes, I'm here. Okay, Chuck, we're
CHUCK CASTO: MALE
PARTICIPANT:
call
Ambassador
NEAL R.GROSS
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86 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Director of Nuclear Technology Propulsion and Thomas. Program, Admiral for the Naval Ren Nuclear
Mueller,
(phonetic),
12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
K5X
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*mm
- m-m
m88
-nm m
-Um
d---
19 2C 21
2] 24 25
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89 1 2 3
9
10 11 12 13 14 1 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R.GROSS
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90
1
2 3 4 on it,
MALE PARTICIPANT: Chuck,
Okay.
Yes,
we'll
get
but I'm not sure that Naval Reactors has
done a calculation. CHUCK CASTO: MALE They haven't, They're no. just shooting
PARTICIPANT:
6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
from the hip. CHUCK CASTO: Right, it's visceral.
MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: to some agreement. I think, here,
Yes.
But we need to at least come
And I have Mueller's phone number,
to call him. Is he the person who
MALE PARTICIPANT: signed this document? CHUCK CASTO: (phonetic), It
says,
it
has Mueller,
Ren
and Thomas send on it, MALE PARTICIPANT:
an email. Okay. But if you've
got Mueller's phone number, CHUCK CASTO:
we'll follow up with him.
You know, (phonetic) Naval
and the other thing is in
Offendorf with
has a lot of background
this area
Reactors and the Admiral and stuff.
You know, trying just a
he may be able to help out a little to get us to work together well.
bit here, It's
suggestion. NEAL R.GROSS

91 1 MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: 3

Admiral -or,
Okay. then,
We'll work it. so we need, the
And,
--
the Admiral?
the Ambassador
would
like
one-pager
or
something,
bullet
points,
that
reconcile
these differences
or explain
the two sides
by the time he has the call with the White House at 7 nine o'clock our time, which is two hours from now. TEPCO has asked for So, they may be
8Meanwhile, 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 21
2
in an hour,
us to come over and meet with them. reaching out for some advice. MALE PARTICIPANT:
Beyond
what
John
Monager has asked for? CHUCK CASTO: asked for. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE about PARTICIPANT: Okay. We talked with John I don't know what John has
20 minutes ago, looking
and what he indicated was that on the spent-fuel pools,
they're
for advice
that Units 1 and 2 are boiling off. CHUCK CASTO: Yes, So, that's probably the
advice they're looking for.

that, if we can share it
--
whatever we have for
23 2 2
MALE
PARTICIPANT:
Right.
We're working
on a timeline to support John right now. CHUCK CASTO: Okay. So, you've got two
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92 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 is bought probably Yes. MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: a 202. He's in Yes. So, it's Yes, 202 area code? probably. Yes, Washington? CHUCK CASTO: Yes, I believe so, right. things you're working on there. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: number you gave was for whom? CHUCK M-U-E-L-L-E-R. CASTO: He's the It's Troy Director J. of Mueller, Nuclear Got it. Well, Chuck, the phone
Technology for the Naval Nuclear Propulsion Program. MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO:
M-U --
E-L-L-E-R. Thank you. And he's over here in
Washington.
We just had a
videoconference with him and the Ambassador. MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: Okay. off? So, Okay. was very heated.
And it
you'll get, reconcile something he's this. going to ask if the
Because
Chairman's bought off in ask us that.
I know he's going to
He wants to go to the Japanese. NEALR. GROSS

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1c 11 12 1 14 15 1 ;MALE 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 Ambassador. MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: Okay. need to come through Chuck? CHUCK CASTO: Yes, they sent it to the they did send it PARTICIPANT: Well, it sounds like
to the Ambassador. Okay. we need to get -Did I get it right,
MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: MALE Yes,
PARTICIPANT:
They
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94 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 (inaudible) percent. with fuel. MALE PARTICIPANT: Should we do NR. what? MALE PARTICIPANT: The Procedures Okay. is I'm following up working on spent get busy. MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: MALE Okay. thanks. should Thanks. be doing us. I mean they need to work with us. MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: Yes.
--
But they're not very Well, yes,
MALE PARTICIPANT: that within NR they've got it
I'm not sure
well-coordinated because and
we've been working with them all through the time, nobody mentioned this. CHUCK certainly visceral. But, anyhow, I'll let you go, CASTO: Yes. Well,
they're
so you can
All right, Who
PARTICIPANT:
Team
(inaudible, possibly "IC")? MALE PARTICIPANT: Does IC have any
actions out of this? MALE 33 PARTICIPANT: percent and these it's We're are running (inaudible)
But the gut reaction, NEAL R,GROSS
not going to be
95 much different. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: That's fine. Who's coming up with
these talking points for to need two hours.
the Ambassador?
He's going
MALE PARTICIPANT: we need for John in what we need for 10
I think let's so we I can mean
get what focus I on
minutes,
the Ambassador.
think
that's
the same call
that Mike's on at eight o'clock
our time. MALE PARTICIPANT: He hasn't shared it
with the Ambassador yet. MALE PARTICIPANT: going to do with it right now, I'm not sure what we're do with the Chairman.
What will we tell him? be made yet.
I mean there's no decisions to we need to give him an
At some point,
update on the status. MALE "Where was") PARTICIPANT: the Japanese (Inaudible, (inaudible, possibly possibly
"regulator in all this")? MALE PARTICIPANT: Well, they were in the
meeting that Tony had just come from that (inaudible). They were in and TEPCO the meeting. It was with (inaudible)
(inaudible). They came back from that meeting because
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96
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 additional? interagency public. So, this and I'll that's (inaudible, possibly "there was going to be a")
meeting to go into detail about what (inaudible). MALE PARTICIPANT: Dan, are you
comfortable that you've got a list MALE (inaudible). MALE PARTICIPANT: PARTICIPANT:
of action items? I'm not sure that
Yes,
yes.
Make
sure
that we get that updated of all that we're now working on. MALE PARTICIPANT: and get back to him, if
the different
things
I could start that list
you want to take a look at -Yes. We'll combine the
MALE PARTICIPANT: changes on each different MALE
(inaudible). Do you want to review
PARTICIPANT:
work on (inaudible)? MALE PARTICIPANT: (Inaudible, possibly,
"I can do whatever you want.") MALE I started TEPCO, PARTICIPANT: If you wouldn't mind?
make this public. (Inaudible)? Interagency, the
one that is
likely to be shared with the (inaudible). Anything
(inaudible) for the general MALE PARTICIPANT: Right.
(Inaudible). GROSS NEAL R.
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97 1 2 3 4
5
MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE about merged 30 minutes PARTICIPANT: to review
(Inaudible). Marty's both calling that in we
documents the
together,
--
and,
then,
also,
document
recommending that
6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1 1 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 right we tomorrow. (inaudible). to private
MALE other agencies?
PARTICIPANT:
Is
this
going
out
to
MALE PARTICIPANT: one, you can put it
No, in
this is that
not. one;
The Rod
(phonetic) kind of us"). is
can't put it. in a (inaudible,
his. possibly
That's
the one that
"shotgun following
But what's the other one? on-MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT:
The one we sent
(Inaudible). Correct. That Yes. picks up
MALE
PARTICIPANT:
Yes,
it
will
be
up
MALE PARTICIPANT: don't need to
Yes. put
Yes. that in, Yes.
Yes,
that's we It
that Okay.
recommended it, makes sense.
now that it's
coming.
(Pause.) NEAL R. GROSS

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98 1 2 3 4 5 (inaudible). MALE bigger thing. MALE in PARTICIPANT: So, is there anything PARTICIPANT: We're not sure of the MALE PARTICIPANT: Our talking points
6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
there that's not in
the bigger document? No, not at all. But what I was trying for the
MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: to do, if
we're trying to get to a one-pager this looks a lot closer to that. MALE PARTICIPANT: more of a, Well, this the is
Ambassador,
problem, definitely
though,
this
is
(inaudible).
K>S
MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE DOE. (Inaudible). MALE PARTICIPANT: PARTICIPANT:
(Inaudible). And did give that to
I'm
not
sure
NEAL R.GROSS
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99 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 (inaudible). MALE PARTICIPANT: this line up? Do you want me to hang
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100
1 2 3 d 5 6 7
(CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) MALE PARTICIPANT: DAN DORMAN: MALE Yes? Admiral Donald Dan?
PARTICIPANT:
(phonetic) wants to talk to both you and the Chairman. So, they're getting the Chairman on the line, and
they're patching in
(inaudible). Okay. Admiral Donald is Naval
DAN DORMAN: 9 i 11 12 13 14 1 16 17 18 1 20 21 22 23 2 2 I'll done. (Laughter.) MALE guys (inaudible). Reactors.
MALE PARTICIPANT:
MALE PARTICIPANT:
Okay,
my work here is
PARTICIPANT:
Okay,
let's
get
you
MALE PARTICIPANT:
This is
what we sent.
Do you want send that to somebody in MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Okay.
Naval Reactors?
(Inaudible) send it
to.
try to get a hold of (inaudible). MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: (Inaudible). I know. It's either go and don't If we
with what we got there or else just erase it even put it say that on there because we're working it.
they're not good anymore,
then that worries
NEAL R.GROSS
101
1 2 3 4
people. MALE PARTICIPANT: (inaudible). (Inaudible.) MALE PARTICIPANT: They're saying that the got were coming from Our understanding is we
6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 2 22 23 24 25
initial
high
readings
we
(inaudible,
possibly "readings")
from Unit 4,
but were
actually from Unit 3. (Inaudible.) MALE
(Inaudible).
PARTICIPANT:
Admiral So,
Donald
is
asking to just speak to the Chairman. be kind of keyed into that. MALE PARTICIPANT: the Chairman beforehand? cold. I
we want to
Don't we want to brief mean you can't let the
Chairman get caught to the Chairman first? MALE Chairman, and if
How about we need to talk
PARTICIPANT:
First,
brief
the
they don't want (inaudible).
(Inaudible). MALE PARTICIPANT: The Chairman's coming in cold. (Inaudible) (Inaudible). All right. Let me know the issue.
MALE PARTICIPANT: when he's available. MALE Chairman. PARTICIPANT: The
We're
trying
to is
the to
(Inaudible).
recommendation
NEALR.GROSS
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AA ''
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nl rl 9WAFll701
www malmmRnmemm
102 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 first brief the Chairman and then have the phone call. (Inaudible.) MALE PARTICIPANT: (Inaudible) hot items
that we ought to get up on the track or (inaudible). MALE PARTICIPANT: We should say that, in
light of current wind conditions, (inaudible). (Inaudible). MALE PARTICIPANT:
protective measures
Amazing point in
that,
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2
if
the wind changes,
then
(inaudible).
I don't think
we can hide from that. (Inaudible). MALE does after provide we had PARTICIPANT: 6 Actually, which five we NRC NUREG-1353 pulled out
an Alternative contacted the
experienced and they were that this
structural civil engineers, (inaudible). Alternative about
reached out,
Essentially, all say the same, 6 which was developed in all the
the NUREG talks from the
(inaudible)
materials
(inaudible, possibly "drained") And it we've brainstormed. compounds, gives
spent-fuel pool. of materials clay, that
the types sand, et
There's lead,
dolomite, And we're
(inaudible)
cetera.
getting this emailed over to our contacts. I thought Chuck said he had this NUREG,
NEAL R.GROSS
103
1
2 3 4
but
there
is
actually
an
Alternative is
6,
which
if
you've got nothing Laboratory, there.

now.
else left,
Brookhaven National The (inaudible)
the
Chernobyl
event.
So,
that's the answer that we could give right
MALE PARTICIPANT: 7 dirty. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 .25 (inaudible), reaction concrete. to MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT:
Okay. Yes, it's quick and
Yes. I mean I think down, you and
really have to got your real experts to sit we don't understand caved over or is it the condition. Is
the pool wall
just the liner's cracked and the Naval Reactors is pour water on,
concrete's cracked?
pour water on, pour water on. Concrete, concrete. I've got Naval a lot of negative suggested no, I'm
Reactors
My concrete specialist said,
"Well,
not sure about concrete." MALE PARTICIPANT: to take to set up a batch? MALE PARTICIPANT: right? But minute answer, I Yes, where's the batch How long are you going
I mean you're right. like it. this Alternative 6, a five-
this is
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104 1 2 3 where again? MALE PARTICIPANT: here's on the top. NUREG. It came out of NUREG -It's a MALE PARTICIPANT: And that came out of
I wrote that on the top.
6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
25 retype it.
MALE PARTICIPANT: email to I
And this came out in an
and Amy (inaudible)? We're doing that. as we speak. She has And
MALE PARTICIPANT: (phonetic) is MALE (inaudible)? MALE PARTICIPANT: may not haveM, but she's got MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT:
--
doing it
PARTICIPANT:
She does. =I M I Okay. think
Well,
she
she
has
to
She tried
MALE PARTICIPANT: fax number,
don't
if
we have
but we're working on it. MALE PARTICIPANT: (Inaudible) Chuck, he to
had a couple of there when we first
things he read on talked to him.
the plane over
MALE PARTICIPANT: this other one,
But we need to give you
so we can reconcile the two. Yes, I'll take a look
MALE PARTICIPANT: at that. Yes, I'll
get back to you. NEAL R. GROSS
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105 MALE the Admiral PARTICIPANT: How long (inaudible)
with Naval Reactors? MALE PARTICIPANT: A xdmiral Donald. P ardon me? Admiral Donald? Acdmiral Donald? Inaudible).
MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: (Inaudible). MALE Chairman -PARTICIPANT:
5 6
7 8 9
Did
you
give
the
1 13 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 2 22 23 24 25 26
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MALE PARTICIPANT: They know each other. (Inaudible) MALE PARTICIPANT: that we received the GE
They know each other.
Are we letting it (inaudible)
out
(inaudible,
possibly "where the breach is")? MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: the RTS? MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE (Inaudible, break"),
-well,
(Inaudible). Was that the breach in
Yes. It's okay, yes.
PARTICIPANT: "It
possibly
has got a whole upper valve
and in
the containment I don't think we were

do we?
we don't really know it,
(Inaudible). NEAL R.GROSS

106
I
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 1 1 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 2 2 that Naval second, meeting.
(CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) MALE PARTICIPANT: I have Jack Foster
coming up on the bridge. MALE PARTICIPANT: JACK: John Hi. This is is Jack? Jack. stepping out for I don't a
Monager
He wanted me to talk to you about,
believe you're aware or I talking to Greg Casto,
think that you've just been Chuck Casto, just a little
while ago about the conversation with Naval Reactors. MALE PARTICIPANT: JACK: okay, Yes.
Let me put you on hold just for a
because I've got some people here I've
got to quiet down? MALE PARTICIPANT: (Pause.) JACK: So, Okay. Sorry about that. that Chuck mentioned the ET are working Thank you.
I guess the idea, and somehow
Reactors
together to figure out a path forward. include some kind of calculations (inaudible,
That path may associated with
protective action or a
possibly "Rad Code
1") or something like that. I'm just kind of fishing right now because most everybody has left the room and there's a lot of NEAL R. GROSS
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1
things going on here. MARTY VIRGILIO:

Hey, Chuck -I'm sorry
3 4
--
Jack,
this is
Marty.
6 2 7
JACK: makes sense.

12 18 1 12 15 1
Definitely.
Exactly.
And
that
MARTY VIRGILIO: with NR,
We're
trying
to connect
and we're trying to connect with the Chairman
right now to get that accomplished. JACK: talking a little Marty, bit you know, we have here, been too,
behind
the
scenes
17
13 18
about the possibility

knowns that we have,
of (inaudible) with sort of the

the two --
19 20 21 22 23 24 25 done.
MARTY
VIRGILIO:
Jack,
that's
how
we
developed our talking points. JACK: Okay, okay. Things haven't --
MARTY VIRGILIO:
That's exactly what we've
JACK: MARTY
Okay. VIRGILIO: Now Naval Reactors, I
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108 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2C 21 22 23 2 2 t419 to MARTY VIRGILIO: JOHN MONAGER: possibly "some"). MARTY VIRGILIO: Well, we sent it to We sent it We information (inaudible)? MALE PARTICIPANT: I mo "to (inaudible, we sent it don't know that they did anything that sophisticated. I think they developed their talking points based on
engineering judgment. JACK: MARTY understand that. JACK: Thanks a lot. MARTY VIRGILIO: JOHN MONAGER: We're getting TEPCO meeting. MARTY VIRGILIO: that we sent Okay. on Did you get for the the Okay, Hey, ready Jack. this is John. to that Okay. I appreciate it, Marty. Okay. Okay. But we're trying to
VIRGILIO:
Marty, to
head out
(inaudible)
only have
There's a set of recommendations should be doing with regard to those pools. JOHN MONAGER: All right. So,
on what we
you sent it
We'll grab that and roll.
NEAL R. GROSS
109 1 2 3 John. dirty, If MARTY VIRGILIO: MALE PARTICIPANT: you can't Yes. It Okay. was quick and dirty, dump anything in,
get water in,
sand, dolomite,
clay, whatever you can get into
those pools. 6 It comes out of a NUREG So, it's that Chuck had
referenced us earlier today.
about the best
source you can have at this point in a half an hour. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16

17
JOHN MONAGER: MARTY VIRGILIO: CHUCK CASTO:
Okay.
Perfect.
Good luck.
Hey, Marty? Yes? Chuck. Chuck. (inaudible) came up.
MARTY VIRGILIO: CHUCK CASTO:
This is Yes, One
MARTY VIRGILIO: CHUCK CASTO: any --
Are we interested in
here--
and I've got to be careful
18 19 20 2 22 23 2 2 MARTY VIRGILIO: MALE PARTICIPANT: MARTY VIRGILIO: Yes, we're working that. We're working that.
We've been working that all night and trying to see what's better information we can get off those
(inaudible, possibly CHUCK CASTO: Yes, who are you working
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 1 18 19 2< 21 22
that through? MALE PARTICIPANT: We're working it
K>
MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Chuck, CHUCK
Yes.
Okay.
Hang on.
do you need anything else from us? CASTO: No. You're working the
Muller issue, right? MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes, we've got Trautman
NEAL R.GROSS
1il
1
2 3 4
on
the
line now,
and we're
going
to start
engaging
wi th him. CHUCK We're done. MALE PARTICIPANT: Thank you, Marty. You're welcome. CASTO: Okay. Thank you, sir.
E 7
2 S
MARTY VIRGILIO:
IC
ill 12
131
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112 11 2 3 Trautman. (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) STEVE TRAUTMAN: Hello. This is Steve
I was trying to reach Dan Dorman. MARTY VIRGILIO: Steve, it's Marty
Virgilio and Dan. STEVE 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 1 17 1 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 issue. Jaczko doing? MARTY VIRGILIO: this morning? STEVE TRAUTMAN: Well, we've been in a All right. How are you TRAUTMAN: Hey, Marty, how you
while working on this thing based on the events of the day. Hey, because we have been trying to reach Chairman we've got ourselves Japan. the in a bit of an
argument with the NRC reps in have some engagement with
And we'd like to to have a
Chairman
direct hashout on this thing. MALE PARTICIPANT: Okay, but we haven't
briefed the Chairman yet. STEVE TRAUTMAN: Chairman on what yet? MALE PARTICIPANT: On this particular You haven't briefed the
Here's my characterization of where we are. STEVE TRAUTMAN: MALE Yes. Naval Reactors
PARTICIPANT: NEALR.GROSS
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113 1 2
3
developed a set of talking points that included what actions needed to be taken and what consequence would occur if the actions weren't taken. NRC developed a our assumptions and the
set of talking points saying this is
with regard to the reactors and spent-fuel pools, 8 if nothing changes, this is what we see as
consequence.
And are they the same?
9
12
K>
13 14 1.5 16 17 18 19 2G 21 22 they're 50 miles STEVE nearly, for TRAUTMAN: Okay. I mean, to me,
they're protective
identical. actions.
You talked about We talked about
contamination out there, and that was -MALE exactly right. STEVE TRAUTMAN: So, the y're not apples PARTICIPANT: Exactly. That's
23
24 2E
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114 1] 2 3 and oranges -or they're not apples and apples. Right.
MALE PARTICIPANT:
Sl-\
12 13 14 15 16 17 18 .19 20
21 22
23 24 25 way.
MALE PARTICIPANT:
No,
I don't see it
that
STEVE TRAUTMAN:
And I wouldn't argue that
NEAL R.GROSS
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115 1 2 3 4 you wouldn't. ground in I'm just telling you my guys on the
the conversation with the Ambassador,
that's
what they came away with. MALE PARTICIPANT: STEVE TRAUTMAN: Okay. Okay? And so, that's the
6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
kind of engagement we're trying to have. you that I don't believe the consequences
I agree with that both of
our organizations have laid out are different. MALE PARTICIPANT: Ambassador, citizens, people?" STEVE TRAUTMAN: Now, obviously, honest is you know, Right. And I think the
once again
focused on the U.S.
trying to say,
"What should I do for our
people can argue the same point many different ways. And if good we end up losing one of these plants, possibility
--
there's a of these
we're
going
to
lose
all
plants
MALE PARTICIPANT:
STEVE TRAUTMAN:
Yes.
-because you're going
to have to be away.
And, is
right now,
everything I've it was
seen for your consequence based on Plant 2, if
based on a single, So, bit.
I recall correctly.
I worry
that we may be undershooting here a little
And the whole issue that we're trying get to is, if this thing goes down badly in
to
the near
NEAL R.GROSS
116 1 2 3 4
5 6
future,
there's
lot
of
American
citizens,
both
dependents of military as well as others,
that we're
going to have to deal with and give advice to. MALE

do you see as
PARTICIPANT:
We're with you.
What
the next step? Well, there is a Deputies
STEVE TRAUTMAN:
7 8 9
meeting today at eight o'clock. MALE PARTICIPANT: Ri ht.
11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2
21
MALE PARTICIPANT: who has joined us, is going
Yes. to be
Now Mike Weber, in that eight
o'clock meeting. STEVE TRAUTMAN: MALE PARTICIPANT:

to be at a hearing --
Okay. The Chairman is going
22
23
STEVE TRAUTMAN:
MALE
Okay.
--
PARTICIPANT:
downtown
this
24 25
morning.
So,
Mike's with us. do you know Steve?
Mike,
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117 1 2 3 4 5 doing? MIKE WEBER: Okay. So, I'm sorry, go ahead. possibly "Things MIKE WEBER: Yes. Morning, Hi, Mike. Steve. How are you
STEVE TRAUTMAN:
STEVE TRAUTMAN: MIKE WEBER:
(Inaudible,
are")
better than they are in Japan. STEVE TRAUTMAN: Yes, I agree with that.
9 10 1i 12 13 14 the table, guidance picture
So, is has of
that's what I see as the issue here on view of what the NRC and what our
at least our guys' been to the is
Ambassador,
this
has been
they're not
consistent.
15
16 17 18 19 20 21 MALE PARTICIPANT: Right, right.
22
23 24 251
(5>
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118
3
4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 that's -MALE
MALE PARTICIPANT: As an aside, while you all have been focused on the reactor, this morning we have been focused on the spent-fuel pools. STEVE TRAUTMAN: Yes, I agree with you, PARTICIPANT: And we have just
provided to our guys over there a list a dozen actions that we are going
of maybe a half to be making
recommendations
to TEPCO -Okay. -on what's the next
STEVE TRAUTMAN: MALE PARTICIPANT:
best step with regard to those pools. STEVE TRAUTMAN: I mean I agree with you.
Both the spent-fuel pools and the reactors need to be dealt with. MALE PARTICIPANT: STEVE TRAUTMAN: MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes. It's not either/or here. And it sounds like
they've lost the integrity of the walls on the Unit 4 pool. STEVE TRAUTMAN: MALE PARTICIPANT: NEALR.GROSS
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Yes. SO, it is just fuel at
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119 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 1 19 2 21 22 23 24 2 do that be -that. So, how do we bring this to conclusion, so awareness. STEVE TRAUTMAN: All right. I appreciate best this point. STEVE TRAUTMAN: MALE PARTICIPANT: recommendations on how Yes, So, they sir. we've provided our should be dealing
with that. STEVE TRAUTMAN: MALE Okay. So, just for your
PARTICIPANT:
that the Ambassador feels like we're on the same page? MALE PARTICIPANT: Well, Mike is here and
Mike will be on the eight o'clock. STEVE TRAUTMAN: I don't want you guys Yes, but that's going to
to have to unscrew this meeting. We've got
disagreement
during the Deputies'
to get to the Ambassador and come to some unity prior to that eight o'clock meeting. MALE via Or is a PARTICIPANT: call with the And you're wanting to Chairman and Admiral
Donald?
there some other way you -The bottom line is, from
STEVE TRAUTMAN: my standpoint, if
we can come to agreement that we're we just need to figure out how to
on the same page,
NEAL R.GROSS
120
1
2 3
get that word back to the --
I mean,
if
you want,
we
can all hook up together with the NRC guy right now on a bridge, your guy in Japan, so that we can all come then, they can go in to the
to some mutual agreement. 5 6 7 8 9 1 1 12 1 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 21 22 23 2 2 call in Casto on with a unified front eight o'clock meeting.
And,
to the Ambassador prior
MALE PARTICIPANT: STEVE TRAUTMAN: MALE PARTICIPANT:
Let's do it. Okay. Should we set up the
bridge or do you want to do it? STEVE TRAUTMAN: MALE Let me think a minute. We're Steve. Say that again, please? We're getting Chuck trying to get
PARTICIPANT:
Chuck Casto on the phone now, STEVE TRAUTMAN: MALE
PARTICIPANT:
the phone.
Chuck Casto is
the head of our
team over in
the Embassy. STEVE TRAUTMAN: Okay. And I will figure
out how to get my -bridge to ask Mr. I'm sorry -
I will ask my command-and-control to your DOE -or,
Muller to call in Will
NRC EOC.
that work?
Do you guys
want to set that bridge up? MALE PARTICIPANT: STEVE TRAUTMAN: right now. Yes, that will work. I'll have him
All right.
NEAL R.GROSS
121
a
2
Yes,
that's the number,
please. that phone
All right,
we'll have him make
call.
11 12 12
17
19 2C 21 22 23 24
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122 1 2 3 (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) STEVE TRAUTMAN: Mr. Muller This is be Steve Trautman. calling in on a
should
bridge imminently. MALE PARTICIPANT: Okay. We're still
trying to get Chuck on the line. STEVE TRAUTMAN: MALE Headquarters 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2C 21 22 23 24 25 this, Mike, there? CHUCK CASTO: MALE Yes, I'm her e. Okay. I think we're Mr. bridge. MALE PARTICIPANT: Mr. Muller, you have Okay. This is the
PARTICIPANT:
Operations Officer.
The team from Japan
has called into the ET conference. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Okay. Thank you.
Muller just joined the
Trautman on the bridge. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Still on the bridge. Casto, are you
Chuck
PARTICIPANT:
all patched up together. MALE if PARTICIPANT: Okay, if I could try
that's okay with you? Go for it. Okay. What we've been
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4
5 6
9 10
11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CHUCK CASTO: with you on the phone call. MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: Okay. Urgent is to Yes, and we agreed on that
That's urgent.
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i9m qq4-44.on
126 get that done. 2 3 1 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19
6K>
MALE 20 22 21 yes, that is
PARTICIPANT:
Agree.
Recovery
is,
sort of a different question. MALE PARTICIPANT: It is, but I think So, we
25
(202) 234-4433
we've got mixes with apples and oranges here. certainly agree that your paper says PEGs of NEAL R. GROSS
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127
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
*m
than 1 rem TEDE and greater
mmmm
than 5 rems EDE exceeded
K>
K>
13 14 15 16 .17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MALE PARTICIPANT: headquarters can help me. on this? about still on I'm the looking 7:30 Which one then? Maybe
What is
the recommendation talking Is that
at page
5 that we're Time.
Eastern
Daylight
valid,
that recommendation? NEAL R.GROSS

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128 1 DAN DORMAN: This is Dan Dorman.

I don't have that
I would have to --
7:30
3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
in
front of me. MALE PARTICIPANT: Well, it's the one that
you issued this morning has the same language. MALE PARTICIPANT: The one that we sent
over this morning was -r-
11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 .21 22 23 24 25 from shift 07:30 MALE PARTICIPANT: we had, had Yes, that in that discussion that we midwere
KI
yesterday, we
earlier
yesterday,
information
inferring to represent an ex-vessel core condition in Unit 2.
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129
I
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 1 16 17 18 1 20 21 22 23 24 25 we've got Which one is Chairman. us. that time.
Chairman coming up. That was the driver at
We subsequently had information about 150 Unit 2. So, I think this morning we were
pounds in
looking at just the one spent-fuel pool. I understand Chairman Jaczko has joined
NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT:
Yes.
Good morning, Chairman. Good morning, Mr.
MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT:
How are you? Mr. Chairman. which one, Dan?
So,
valid for right now? DAN DORMAN: I think the one that we sent
over this morning that says evacuation out to 50 miles is the latest information. MALE PARTICIPANT: But let me interject
for a moment for the Chairman's benefit. Chairman, our team we have Naval on in Japan, Reactors on, here and at
and we're
headquarters of NRC. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE PARTICIPANT: NEALR.GROSS

Okay. And the issue is that
(202) 234-4433
130 1 the Ambassador thinks that Naval Reactors and NRC have provided different recommendations to the Ambassador. 3 4 we're 6 7 NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE wrestling PARTICIPANT: with are, first, Okay. And the issues priority that on
place
taking care of the reactors and the spent-fuel pools, which are in much degraded condition this morning than they were last night. And, then, if -They're
9 1 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 consequence priority.
NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: in more degraded condition? MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes.
I'm sorry?
NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE PARTICIPANT: piece.
Okay. And, also, then, the
management
But it's
a matter of
NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO:
Okay.
196
2C 21 21 23 24 25 seeing STEVE TRAUTMAN: Because everything we're both at the
this morning on media and reports, NEAL R.GROSS
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1 .11
2 3
6 7
8
9
12 13 12
15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Japanese We did provide information to the Ambassador about
four or five hours ago that says the information that we have, would based on the spent-fuel condition, if Unit 4,
support
evacuation up
to 50 miles
the wind
changes,
which we don't expect before the weekend. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Well, are the to 50
currently
issuing an evacuation NEALR.GROSS
order
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132 1 miles?
2
3
MUO-mm
EM
5
7 8] 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24.
NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: on what we know, evacuation? MARTY VIRGILIO: This is What assessment of those Marty. trying No.
So,
right now,
based
would we be recommending
a 50-mile
No,
Chairman.
we're
to
do is
is
get
an
from the site as to what facilities. It's about
the condition we were 24
where
hours ago. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MARTY VIRGILIO: Okay. We haven't made a
different recommendation,
but what we have is
a lot of
unknowns that we're trying to make known. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: are leaning forward here,
get better or get worse?
At this point,
if
we
do we think this is
going to
MARTY VIRGILIO:
It's
going to get worse
NEALR.GROSS
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133 if 2 3 you think about the spent-fuel 4 doesn't have a spent-fuel pools. pool Right now, anymore. It
Unit
appears
that the walls have crumbled and you've just
got fuel there. 5 1 NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MARTY VIRGILIO: 7 8 1 9 1 1 12 13 14 appears fuel Okay. and 3, it
And Units 1, 2, levels in
that they're at various and it doesn't
the spent-
pool,
appear that
they're making
up the levels.
U E
K3~
22 22 23 24 25 is STEVE TRAUTMAN: Steve Trautman again. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Yes. Yes, Mr. Chairman, this
NEAL R.GROSS
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134 1 STEVE TRAUTMAN: you have just said. And I so, agree with everything my view of what the
2 3
Ambassador needs is said is
two pieces.
Exactly what you just
7 8 4 9 5
S*_
MARTY
VIRGILIO:
And,
Chairman,
where is to
think we're complementary with Naval Reactors 12 17 11 have provided some good advice the core, with and regard I
they the
reactors provided 17
and protecting the best
think we've to the
advice we
can with
regard
spent-fuel pool. 26 1 NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: three sentences, tell me what I'm sorry. the message is So, in
23
we're delivering to the Ambassador. 24 MALE disagreeing. PARTICIPANT: We and NR are not
25
NEAL R.GROSS
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136 simpler messages.
1 1 I. 1 1 1 1 1
2 2
NEAL R. GROSS
137 1 2 3 4 Chuck, NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: do you have any good -All right. I think,
are you guys getting
any access at all? CHUCK CASTO: Very little. Okay. Here's where going to get
NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: I think we are: 7 8 9 1 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 better. this is not,
in my mind,
Does anyone disagree with that? MALE PARTICIPANT: NRC CHAIRMAN No. This is going we, to I
JACZKO:
progress to the point at which we probably have, think,
have to assume at this point that we're going
to have three reactors out of control and possibly up to six spent-fuel pools. MALE PARTICIPANT: Agreed. I think we need to
take whatever actions are necessary to deal with that. That is the message I think we need to deliver to the as soon as of possible. U.S. If that involves need a to
Ambassador general
evacuation
citizens,
we
instruct that to be done immediately. Does anyone disagree with that? ADMIRAL DONALD: Donald at Naval Reactors. I agree with you. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Okay. Let's get Chairman, this is Admiral
NEAL R.GROSS
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(202) . 234-4433
138 1 2 3 line with that message to the Ambassador. Ops Center, Admiral I need you to get me on the to the White House
Donald
immediately. MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes, sir.
NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: 7 MR. MULLER: This is
I need Muller.
That still 9 10 11 12 13 1 15 16 1 18 19 2 21 22 23 24 25 I want to be
doesn't take care of the cores
and mobilizing their military to do so. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: worried about the U.S. Right now, citizens. I'm going That's a
secondary matter with the core. MALE PARTICIPANT: Mr. Chairman, I don't
think we could practically get them out of here. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Well, and, that's what then,
--
that information going out,
we are
going to have to deal with how we deal with that.
NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: NEAL R. GROSS

(202) 234-4433
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139 1 2 3 considering MALE PARTICIPANT: actions, moving Second, in the we have to be direction of
actions to evacuate American citizens. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: fine. I'm fine with that. CHUCK CASTO: This is To what degree? Okay, good. That's
6 7 4 5 9 of Japan?
Chuck Casto. the American citizens out
To what degree
NRC think, 1 1 1 15 16 17 18 19 2 21 22 23 24 25 well,
CHAIRMAN Chuck,
JACZKO: got
At to
this
point, me
I a
you've
give
recommendation here.
I'm not there and I'm don't have front of me.
any information right in
NEAL R.GROSS
140
2
3 -and I

appreciate that,
Okay.
Well,
I think
I think
Admiral
Donald --
4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 1 12 13
14
that's not something that the NRC can do. ADMIRAL DONALD: Correct. What I need to do is knows I what our
NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: just make sure that is at
the White House this point.
recommendation
And
appreciate
that that's going to lead to a lot of activity and a lot of other action, but I think we need to get that
message as quickly as possible. ADMIRAL DONALD: I agree. For your background,

now what we're

other countries -I think
right
15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 2 25
talking Japan,
about
is
the
status
of
U.S.. personnel outside or
in
not necessarily
evacuations If we still
around
the facility, et cetera. miles have U.S. is that the appropriate as a message,
believe that 50 then we can also there's broader
distance, but
I think
personnel issues that need to be addressed. BILL BORCHARDT: Yes, Chairman, this is
Bill Borchardt. If out to 50 this happened in That the U.S., be our we would go evacuation
miles.
would
recommendation. NEALR.GROSS
141 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 the NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: BILL BORCHARDT: appropriate guidance to Okay.
And I think that would be give the Ambassador to
pass on at this point. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE PARTICIPANT: Okay. But I would think
you're also passing out KI to everyone else as well. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE have enough KI. PARTICIPANT: Not necessarily. I don't know that we
12 13 14
15 16 17 18 19 2 2 22 23 24 25 point on No. Is that correct? PARTICIPANT: Chairman, Just to put a finer
MALE 2,
also the spent-fuel pools. And the spent-fuel

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142 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 that, this at far as the pools. MALE PARTICIPANT: is Chairman, 50 I think as as a
evacuation I
concerned, that is
miles for
starting
point,
think
suitable
your
recommendation. group is what
I think, again,
the DC and the larger and
going to have to discuss how do we deal do we put in place to start
procedures
moving
toward the larger evacuation if
that could have to occur
this thing goes really badly. NRC CHAIRMAN this to point, lean as JACZKO: I said, in I that Yes. And I think
think we want at regard, that at
point
forward
13
this point
14
15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Send it message.
*
MALE PARTICIPANT: Okay. So, that is a fourth NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO:
Okay? MALE PARTICIPANT: If somebody could type an email, just so I
those up and put get them right?
those to me in
MALE PARTICIPANT: 0 MALE PARTICIPANT: to NR, too.
We're working on them. Send it here, too.
NRC CHAIRMAN just be clear.
JACZKO:
And again,
let me
Does anybody disagree with those four NEAL R.GROSS

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143 1 2 3 4 Donald. I agree with those four statements. 6 7

NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Okay. Thank you.
statements?
MALE PARTICIPANT: ADMIRAL DONALD: Do it. Chairman, this is Admiral
i0 11 12 13 14 19
12
17
18
19 20
21
22 23 24 25
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144
1
2 3 4 (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) MALE PARTICIPANT: This is the
Headquarters Operations Officer. Chairman, we have
Yes. sir. Stand
Is there a specific individual 6

7 8
you would like to speak with? NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE PARTICIPANT: NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO:
1 12 13 1 1 16 17 18 1 2 21 22 23 24 2 everybody by.
MALE PARTICIPANT: NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE PARTICIPANT:
Roger that,
Chairman Jaczko, can transfer your cell
when you're ready, sir,
from the Admiral
to a separate
conference bridge along with the White House Situation Room. NRC CHAIRMAN just JACZKO: so we have If we can keep
else on,
the
background,
that's fine. MALE PARTICIPANT: All right, sir. You
want everyone on the ET? NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes. sir.
Roger that,
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145 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 bridge, sir. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: had a chance to catch their Now that everybody's is there anybody please. MALE PARTICIPANT: NRC CHAIRMAN Okay, sir. Again, now that am I speaking, NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Just one voice
Admiral Donald or myself. MALE PARTICIPANT: Put a mute on that,
JACZKO:
everybody's had a chance to catch their breath -still on the bridge? MALE PARTICIPANT: You're still on
the
breath,
who disagrees with those four points? MALE PARTICIPANT: Mr. Chairman, we were
just talking about the fourth point. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes.
And I guess it
20
21 22 23 24 25 NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Yes, that's a
decision we'll leave up to the Administration. MALE PARTICIPANT: Okay. How they do that.
146
1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 1 18 19 2 21 22 23 24 25 26 here. sir.
But,
again,
does
anyone disagree
with me
making those four statements? MALE PARTICIPANT: BILL BORCHARDT: NO. No disagreement here,
NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: .BILL BORCHARDT:
Thank you. Bill Borchardt
Chairman,
Yes?
K>
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147 1 2 3 you on? ADMIRAL DONALD: 5 6 7 8 9, 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2E conference very soon. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE PARTICIPANT: Okay, great. MALE working on it. PARTICIPANT: Mr. Chairman, they're I'm on. (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Admiral Donald, are
&
I
They do have the Situation Room on the
line and they'll relay that message. MALE PARTICIPANT: Hey, Chairman, this is
the Headquarters Operations officer. is coming up on the
Yes.
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148
2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
*7
How are you? to relay to you.
Greg, this is
I have
four points I've got
I want to get them clear.
a couple of other people on the line just to make sure we get them right.
12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 say, right now it's reactor at Daiichi or is NRC CHAIRMAN And, No. 2-Greg, is this for the
this broader than that? JACZKO: I would just say
broader to the entire site. Okay. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Yes, the entire, the
reactors and the spent fuel at Daiichi. No. 2

--
And that seven o'clock this morning? NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: of 6:45 this morning. NEAL R.GROSS
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is
as of,
let's
I'd say probably as
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149 1 Got it.
2(
3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 evacuation 50 miles. NEAL R. GROSS
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Actually,
No.
3.or No.
4? 3: recommend
I'm on No.
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31
5 6 7 8
9
ii 12 12 12
15 16 17 18 19
20
21
22
23
24 25 ADMIRAL DONALD:
And, plus -this is
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151 1 2 3 4
Admiral Donald of Naval Reactors
--
the
effort
that
it's
going
to take
and
the time
that
it's
going to we really
take to be able to do something like that,
have to get things moving sooner rather than later. NRC CHAIRMAN points clear? JACZKO: are those
7 8 9 5 1 6 check them back off for you.
They
are,
Greg.
Let
me
11 12 13 14 1 1 17 18 19 20 21, 22 23 24 25
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152 1 2 3 4
6 7 8 5 9 1 11 12 13 14 1 1 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 This is MALE PARTICIPANT: the conference, sir. Hey, has joined
good morning.
I've got Greg and Admiral Donald of
Naval Reactors and a few others on the line. I guess I'll turn to you, Greg. Hi, Greg, to turn
those four items back over to John, NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO:
Okay.
Hi there,
Greg.
There's
four
items
that right now I have concurrence from my team here at NEAL R. GROSS
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153 1 2 3 4 the NCR as well as my team in Japan, as well as
concurrence of Naval Reactors.
6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 it is important. So, up there. And, No. 4, given the likelihood that I'm sorry, Greg. You broke
You're going to have to go start again. And I just spoke tof and
he's going to get on the line now. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Okay. sounds like this
Because it
I think he's going to be added. Each time I repeat
NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: I get better at it. (Laughter.) MALE PARTICIPANT: was that last? NEAL R. GROSS
Greg,
I'm sorry,
what
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154
I
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 is going
NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE transmission? PARTICIPANT:
I'm sorry? What was that last
I didn't copy. I'm sorry.
to be joining us momentarily.
So,
think
we'd wait. MALE PARTICIPANT: Can I ask one Okay. Got it. in the interim? and do
question
Have you chatted with your colleagues they concur with your assessment? NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO:
at DOE,
11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 you. possibly protective (inaudible). just here. wanted
I have not.
We can
work to get them on the line as well. it
I just thought
was important to relay this as soon as possible. MALE PARTICIPANT: sure that No, I no, I agree. blocked I up
to make
hadn't
NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: get some sleep tonight. It sounds like it MALE "work So, I
I actually tried to got woken up to this.
was (inaudible). PARTICIPANT: after" or We'll DOE (inaudible, through our
"factor")
(inaudible,
possibly
"interest")
Okay.
Good.
Thank
NEAL R. GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE, N.W.
155 1 2 3 4 NRC again. CHAIRMAN Yes, Okay. JACZKO: you on yet? I'm here, Good. Okay, I'll start John.
5 6 7 S
9
11
13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
25
6,--
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NEAL R. GROSS
I And
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156 1 2 3 4 5 Chuck and furthermore, it appears that this event will likely
only get worse, And
and not better, at this point. again, if I can just have disagree my team, those
everybody,
anybody
with
statements as I've said them? MALE PARTICIPANT: went to Chuck stepped out. and we have no, He the
6
7 8 9 10 1i 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 would see only about Japan, worst Japan? likely the to deliver.
talk to the Ambassador,
folks in
the room have no comments. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: So, Okay. Thank you. I wanted
those are the four messages
ADMIRAL from Naval Reactors.
DONALD:
This
is
Admiral
Donald
And I agree with those messages. Greg, to get worse, not of when you and say it's
better, U.S.
thinking from
general
evacuation
citizens
I ask, scenario
once again,
what do you see now as the the impact will be on
as far as what
NRC a
CHAIRMAN worst
JACZKO:
At
this
point,
scenario
probably
being
three
reactors eventually having, a meltdown. you would So,
for lack of a better term,
the reactors would likely eventually, breach primary containment and
eventually
NEAL R. GROSS
157 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 have some type of predict release. Again, it's difficult to coupled with in a degraded Those
the magnitude of that released, pools
potentially up to six spent-fuel
condition, possibly with spent-fuel pool fires. are all significant events.
11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 down, then, Three six spent-fuel ponds go up in reactors flames. melting And what, if
would be the impact for Tokyo,
for example,
the wind kept blowing in that direction? NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: At this point, I
think I would still
go with the 50 miles right now is But it
what we see as the actual direct evacuation. is uncertain and it
would possibly have to get beyond NEAL R. GROSS
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158
1 2 3 4 5 50 miles. to Tokyo. But, again, we looked last night at one I don't know that we've run a model out yet
reactor having essentially a core melt. out to 50 miles. If you add in it
That took us it
two other reactors,
6
7 8 9 I 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
doesn't necessarily -doses. And so, you
essentially adds additional go that' much in. And a
don't necessarily an additional
farther with adding spent-fuel you out
reactor
fire doesn't seem to be one that would take to 50 miles at this point, based on our
analyses. But I would caution -fourth statement -part of this and, is again, for the we
just simply
just don't know the condition of the core. know the condition of the spent fuel. the direct modeling. So, these are, but, we think, details to really,
We don't
We don't have
truly do very accurate
conservative it's possible
estimates at this point, we're off by a little significantly-larger important to start
you know,
bit in
a way that could have a So, = I think it's
implication. thinking =
29
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159
2 3 continue
i think that's something that we would have to to work through and work with the various
parties that would need to be involved to do something like that. 6 7 8 impact on the U.S. homelands,
So,
there
would
be
no
Hawaii,
Alaska? And again, I
No.
would ask anybody on my team here to concur or refute 1 11 12 13 1 1 16 17 18 19 2 21 22 that statement.
23 24 2 NEAL R.GROSS
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160
Did you say that
his
aware of this information now? NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: I believe he has
been given by the NRC team the same points that I just reiterated to you.
~Greg,
it'Is Hi. those
C
tells you
When you give us points, public
are you saying that you see those points being or those are just what your data
right now? NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: I'm sorry,

Those points are --
I didn't quite follow that.
NEAL R.GROSS
www~nealrgross-com
1 2 3
6 7
9 10 11 12 13 14 1 16 17 18 1 2 21 22
23
[
your view, Greg, the cause of that?
So, on the fire in
do you guys,
what's
24 25
Unit 4 last night and
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162 1 2 NRC Marty or Mike, if CHAIRMAN JACZKO: If we can have, I
you could answer that question?
3
4 5
have some of our technical folks on the line. Mike, can you answer that question? Can you repeat the question,
MIKE WEBER: please?
7j
9
1 1 12
_What
MIKE WEBER:
do you assess was
the cause of the fire in Unit 4 last night?
MALE PARTICIPANT: MIKE WEBER: Yes.

in spent fuel rather than --
13
14 1 16 17 18 19 2 21 22 23 24 25 the call? structure collapsed. pile. is
Okay.
So,
it
is
MIKE
WEBER:
That's
right.
The
pool
no longer in So,
existence.
The walls have a
you have spent fuel sitting there in
Yes.
Okay.
Is
State on
MALE
PARTICIPANT:
State
is
not
on
the
call.
Okay. MALE PARTICIPANT: But wi e have our team
NEAL R.GROSS
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163 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 1 12 13 14 1 16 17 18
19
/
there
in
Japan,
and
they
are
working
to
brief
the
Ambassador.
UReactors, DoD channels? ADMIRAL Deputy minutes, brief the DONALD: CNO just
Yes.
Okay.
And
how have you guys communicated
this through
Sir, in
I've
just
had my of
the
last
couple
and the CNO will get it
up to the Secretary
of Defense. Okay. ADMIRAL DONALD: I've in also got Admiral
Willard from PACOM calling in, here, and I'll
a couple of minutes
brief him as well. Okay. So, John, Okay.
I think we ought to go ahead and least, if noti
get on the phone witat and Yes.
on?
20 21 22 23 2 2 Greg, will is on.
don't
believe
so.
Okay. you just type up your four
points and send them over? NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: NEAL R. GROSS
Okay,
I will.
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164 1 grab, 3 4 5And 6 Hey, Yes? Then, M, why don't we
why don't we hang up and then grab we can ge
and see if
Yes. we'll get

--
8
9 10 11 12 We probably should. Should we the Deputies?
This is
approach the 0800 (inaudible),
What do you thinkl
13
1 1 117 18
.
NWell, in light of this, I
I have a --
probably,
think we need
to make sure that
there's high-level attention on it.

Yes.
So,
you
and
can
get
together and talk about who should be there. M do. I'll ENE M, Good. That's what we'll
19
20 21 22 23 2 25
come down and see you now, Okay. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: And, folks, I'm
scheduled to be on the Hill at 10 o'clock to testify. Or, actually, I'm sorry, 9:30. So, if necessary, I
will cancel that,
but would like to proceed with that, NEALR.GROSS
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165 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 1 16 17 18 19 best I can. it's in this, and to which committee? NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: the House on, it Energy and Commerce and I'll But, have Mike Weber available, if you need me, if you need us.
of course,
contact me directly. Are you testifying on
was ostensibly a budget hearing,
but it
will likely be all about Japan.
Yes,
obviously.
And
an open hearing? NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Yes. At this point, unless
I would not make any of these messages public, you disagree. But you'll get on the eight o'clock CVTs (phonetic)? NRC Yes. Actually, and I'm downtown. It it might be easier, might be easier if CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Yes, I'll
be able
to
do
the
I'm at home I can just
come to the White House.
20
21 22 23 24 2 birth?
/MALE
-sure.
What's your date of And what's your Social?
PARTICIPANT:
NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE PARTICIPANT:

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MALE
PARTICIPANT:
And,
then,
Greg,
always spell your last name wrong. NRC CHAIRMAN cat, Z, as in zebra, K-O. PARTICIPANT: Okay, we'll get you JACZKO: It's J-A-C, as in
MALE waved-in now. NRC either be there
CHAIRMAN or I'll
JACZKO: just be
Okay. on a
And call.
I'll I'm to
looking at the time. get there by 8:00. line. But, if I can, So,
I may not actually be able I'll
just probably be on the
I'll
get there. Okay. Okay? be right down. Okay, thanks.
MALE PARTICIPANT:
NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: I'll Okay.
-EMALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT:
Thanks, Mr.
guys.
Chairman? Yes?
Could you call back to
the Ops Center on a circuit line? NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE PARTICIPANT: ADMIRAL Donald. DONALD: Okay. Right.
Thank you. Okay. This is Admiral
I intend to (inaudible, possibly "secure"). MALE PARTICIPANT: Roger that, sir.
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167 1 2 3 4 5 McDermott. 7 8 6 9 JOSH BATKIN: Hey, Brian. So, you've (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) MALE PARTICIPANT: up on the ET bridge. JOSH BATKIN: Hello. Hi, Josh. This is Brian Josh Batkin is coming
BRIAN McDERMOTT:
spoken with the Chairman? BRIAN MCDERMOTT: JOSH Chairman, then? IAN (phoretic). BATKIN: Say it You've again? spoken with the
I just saw your four points. (phonetic): Josh, this is Ian
1 1 2 1 16 17
JOSH BATKIN: 18 19 2 21 22 23 24 25 JOSH BATKIN: made or that is doing press as well? IAN: No.
Okay.
Okay.
So,
are
we
Okay.
So,
was
a clecision
our recommendation to the group?
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1 2
3 JOSH BATKIN: interesting night, IAN: I guess. Yes, sir. That's one way to put Okay. Wow, you guys had an
5-
4
5 6 7
MALE PARTICIPANT: it. JOSH Thank you. Do you engaged? earlier? MALE PARTICIPANT: the Admiral Donald call. JOSH BATKIN: Okay. Was it know when BATKIN: All
8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 much.
right.
Good
work.
the Chairman was
first
when Admiral Donald called or was it
It
was concurrent with
So,
he got a little
bit of rest before today starts? MALE about an hour ago. JOSH BATKIN: Okay. Great. Well, So, and thank PARTICIPANT: Yes. We engaged him
certainly that was you.
the right
thing to do.
All right.
Hang in
there.
Thank you very
MALE PARTICIPANT: JOSH BATKIN: Yes?
Hey,
Josh?
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169
3. 4
-JOSH 7
8
BATKIN:
Okay. So,
--
MALE PARTICIPANT:
four points on the CVTs call
I'll
use those same
9 11 1i 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 call, Mr. through I don't
JOSH BATKIN:
Okay.
--
MALE PARTICIPANT:
as our position,
and
expect
any pushback
from
the other
agencies
because, call.
you know,
we've already had the substantive
JOSH BATKIN: loop with that as well?
Okay.
And DOE was
in
the
MALE PARTICIPANT: JOSH BATKIN: MALE the PMP
Naval Reactors was on. right. We're going back And
Right,
PARTICIPANT: (phonetic)
to get DOE onboard. to Pete Lyons
we've also D'Agostino.
forwarded
the email
and Tom
JOSH BATKIN: Poneman is
Okay.
You might,
for that
usually on it. All right. you know, play the
MALE PARTICIPANT: JOSH BATKIN:
And,
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170 1 2 3 4 role. folks; have So, just you would want to make sure that our folks, our PNT (phonetic) folks,
our modeling
coordinated closely with them, you know, absolutely
and to determine in agreement or
whether they're,
have any questions before that call. 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 17 our folks? MALE PARTICIPANT: JOSH BATKIN: Yes. They would be part citizens out of of Our folks in Japan? MALE PARTICIPANT: JOSH BATKIN: Understood.
And what are we doing with
MALE PARTICIPANT: the broader preparations Japan.
to get U.S.
17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 John JOSH BATKIN: MALE Monager and Okay. Let me were clarify that. 45
PARTICIPANT: some others
going
about
minutes ago to the meeting with NISA and TEPCO. and TEPCO were requesting information
NISA and
recommendations
on how to address NEAL R. GROSS
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171 1 2 3 4 .5 6 7 8 9 i 11 12 13 1 1 16 17 18 1 2 21 22 23 24 2 that report an IAEA the first four units' fuel pool, and particularly
Units 3 and 4, zirconium/water Unit 4
which they described Unit 3 as having a reaction ongoing. pool as that having And they described been substantially no longer
spent-fuel to the
damaged
point
the walls
were
effective at retaining water. JOSH BATKIN: Okay. And our analysis
shows that you can get a fire out of that pool? MALE PARTICIPANT: JOSH BATKIN: Okay. And pools 5 and 6 also Yes.
MALE PARTICIPANT: have declining levels. JOSH BATKIN: Wow.
MALE PARTICIPANT: report that 5 was
Five. having in
Five.
There was levels hour or
decreasing
which would get
to a point
about another
two that would have fuel uncovered in JOSH BATKIN: before you can see a fire? MALE PARTICIPANT: JOSH BATKIN: MALE was Okay. Okay. And,
the Unit 5 pool. then, how long
Don't know. Okay. In was an conjunction operable with diesel
PARTICIPANT: that there
generator on Unit 6 that they could use to inject fuel to the Unit 5.
NEAL R.GROSS
172 JOSH BATKIN: 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 1 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 soon, guys. Well, for MALE Okay. But that was an IAEA
PARTICIPANT:
report of information that's now about a day old. JOSH BATKIN: Right, right. Okay. Okay.
let me not distract you. information and for
Thank you very much it until you
the
handling
needed to wake him up.
I appreciate that. Good. right. Talk to you
MALE PARTICIPANT: JOSH BATKIN: All
Thanks. MALE PARTICIPANT: Good.
NEAL R.GROSS
(202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 wvww.nealrgross.com
173 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 can get in McDermott. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Is Hi, Brian. (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) MALE PARTICIPANT: Chairman Jaczko being
transferred to the ET conference. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: BRIAN McDERMOTT: Hello. Hi, Chairman. Brian
everybody else on the CVTs call? Yes, we've got folks on
BRIAN McDERMOTT: the CVTs call,
and we've got folks coming together for assistance briefing. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Okay. Let's
the Commissioners, NRC
postpone that right now. BRIAN McDERMOTT: NRC distract people. CHAIRMAN Well, Okay. I don't want to
JACZKO:
unless you can do it
without
taking away from whatever immediate actions we need to deal with. BRIAN McDERMOTT: to postpone that, sir. Okay. No, I think we're going
NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: BRIAN McDERMOTT:
What can I do for you? Is there any way I
on that CVTs call or do I need to be on a
secure phone? NEAL R.GROSS

174 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 1 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 NEALR.GROSS
BRIAN
McDERMOTT:
You
need
to
be
on
secure videoconference or there in person. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: to get over to the White House. BRIAN McDERMOTT: there? NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Can you just So,
--
Okay. Okay.
Then, Thanks.
I need
Do you need help to get
gave the information to the White House. just double-back and make sure that
can you it, my
they have
Social and date of birth? BRIAN McDERMOTT: Yes. Okay.
NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: BRIAN McDERMOTT:
We'll take care of that. Thank you. Bye.
NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: BRIAN McDERMOTT: Bye.
175
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 1i 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 McDermott. got still And be to it, McDermott.
(CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) BRIAN McDERMOTT: Bruce, this is Brian
BRUCE:
Yes,
Brian? Can you guys connect me assistance on
BRIAN MCDERMOTT: the bridge with please? BRUCE: advised, Okay. I've
the Commissioners'
Stand by, informed that the the
Brian.
I will.
Commissioners' Chairman didn't
assistance
briefing
bridge
want to hold a Commissioners' BRIAN McDERMOTT: BRUCE: So,
assistance briefing. Got it.
the majority of participants
have left the conference. BRIAN McDERMOTT: some hanging on, BRUCE: (Pause.) Okay, the links are now in muted. Okay. everyone. Thank you. This is Brian I'll That's fine. If you've
talk to everybody.
Roger that.
BRIAN McDERMOTT: Good morning,
I realize of the participants still Do we still
that we probably only have some on the call. have some? NEAL R.GROSS
(202) 234-4433
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176 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 well, TOM HIPSCHMAN: the Chairman's Office is here. Okay, Tom. least All one. right, We'll Yes, Tom Hipschman from
BRIAN McDERMOTT:
we've got an audience of at
give you what we have. We're Commissioners' going to its reschedule normal the
assistance call in
format at
a later time this morning.
I just want to update you and we've
on significant events from over the evening, 1 11 12 13 14 1 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 in this point. degraded, explosion got a lot going on right now. going to take questions. The last of pool bottom night. the line: That Unit 4 had So,
we're probably not
serious in a the
explosion to the
resulted point that
degradation spent-fuel the most
building
can no point.
longer retain water. The it walls are, we
That's hear,
salient And,
collapsed. basically
right now,
appears that they have up there, some
the spent-fuel So,
rods heating that's Unit 4. is
indication of smoke. Unit The 2,
all right, spent-fuel
also challenged at at Unit 2 is also
pool
and there's a lot of focus on that. You know, Units 1 and 3 are probably not Right now, in we're running terms of
--
a whole lot better shape. very difficult
sort of
projections
NEALR.GROSS
177 1 2 3 4 5 say 'difficult". term, You end up with a very large source-
and we're having to work with NARAC to do the
actual dose mapping and projections because just the one unit would take you out to 50 miles in PEGs. So, we're working to do that. terms of
6
7
11 12 13 14 15 20 16 1'7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 21
M AIR L M.IU H I.b b B R
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(202) 234-4433
~MALE PARTICIPANT:
sometime this morning. BRIAN McDERMOTT:
Sometime.
I thinkk 1Tt2r-
4
5 6 7
--
Sometime
this morning,
very shortly,
they're going to have a CVTS call where
these recommendations are going to be discussed.
8 9
1 1 12 13 1 1 16 17 18 19 2 21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R.GROSS
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1~0
/------
HIPSCHMAN:
Brian,
this is
Tom.
Would you like me to send out just a quick 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 be fine, note to the other offices saying that you're going to have a brief later on and I can just give them, you want, I can just give them a brief summary? BRIAN McDERMOTT: Tom. Fine. Yes, that would and if
15
16
2i
18 19 20 21 2.2
23 BRIAN McDNRMOTT : Yes.
24 21 to talk
TOM HIPSCHNAN: about the units and
I'm just basically just talking
going you
about
NEAL R.GROSS
180 1 2 3 4 dose working on dose projections and evacuation
recommendations
are under consideration. Right. We're looking at would take
BRIAN McDERMOTT: projections that really
ultimately
into account the spent-fuel pools at all six units -6 TOM HIPSCHMAN: BRIAN McDERMOTT: TOM HIPSCHMAN: note and will, tell them to Okay. -Okay. and three reactors. I'll as send a quick I'm sure they
7
8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
(inaudible),
and mark it
appropriately. Okay. Oh, Thanks, Tom.
BRIAN McDERMOTT: TOM HIPSCHMAN: BRIAN McDERMOTT: TOM HIPSCH-AN: BRIAN McDERMOTT:
thanks for the info.
Okay. Bye. Bye.
NEAL R.GROSS
181 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 you doing? CHARLIE MILLER: CHUCK CASTO: All right. I had Miller here. CHUCK CASTO: Hey, Dr. Miller. How are (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) MALE PARTICIPANT: on the ET conference. CHARLIE Chuck Casto coming up
Chuck Casto. MILLER: Hi, Chuck. Charlie
I'm just checking in.
told Marty I would try to check in once an hour or so, and, really, I don't think I've done that yet -CHARLIE MILLER:
CHUCK CASTO: --
12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 anyhow.
Okay.
for the last two hours,
Of course, we had other activities going on. CHARLIE MILLER: Absolutely. Okay.
20
21 22 23 24 25
NEAL R.GROSS
182
1C
11 12 13
'5
KS~
1E 19 2C 21 22 23 CHARLIE MILLER: 25E CHUCK CASTO: Absolutely. also, I conveyed to him
And,
NEAL R.GROSS
(202) 234-4433
183 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 11 12 13 14 15 1 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 2 2 him. I know, know, it's CHARLIE MILLER: more concerned about Okay. Did he seem to be that, you know, their they recognize that that may be out of to make that recommendation, but
jurisdiction it up
would leave
to the DC,
you know,
just propose
that to the DC for their call today, CHARLIE MILLER:
this morning.
That's exactly correct.
that recommendation as something
that he wouldn't want to act on? CHUCK CASTO: Yes, he did. That one, you you think
I didn't get the feeling that that one was, something he was just so, looking for. I mean I
what they said was,
you know,
you guys
were telling us the other day that those rates are low and no long-term health effects; now you're coming up
with sending every American out of here. CHARLIE MILLER: to understand is Well, I think what he has
the conditions have degraded for the
last couple of days. CHUCK CASTO: said, you know, Yes, hey, and that's what I at that time, told
we were pool, but
thinking one reactor,
maybe
one spent-fuel
NEAL R.GROSS
1 IC'91 IX.UAACOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701
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184 1 2 3 least two CHARLIE MILLER: CHUCK CASTO:

--
Right. it's progressed pools, to at and
reactors,
multiple
spent-fuel
maybe four reactors and four spent-fuel pools. 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 you know, changed. CHARLIE MILLER: clarity on that: it's Yes. Yes, I mean, I think, it's yes, the CHARLIE MILLER: CHUCK CASTO: Right. that condition has
You know,
our understanding, So,
fourth reactor has been defueled.
a spent-
fuel pool leaning toward a negative problem. CHUCK geometry on that. CHARLIE MILLER: Right. 2, Now, but I think, though, Chuck, for CASTO: Yes, and, then, the lost
combine that with No. if you get is that
the Ambassador, again. And
a chance our
to talk
to him were
that
recommendations
based upon the conditions at the time and the actions, as well as we knew them, may be taking to try that we thought the Japanese to use seawater. But it's
obvious over the last number of days that the actions either haven't have been been discontinued, anyway, haven't and worked, and have
augmented
conditions
gotten worse. NEAL R.GROSS

185
So, as conditions have gotten worse, we
have had to change our recommendation to make sure -CHUCK CASTO: Yes. -that we're prudent in
CHARLIE MILLER: protecting American citizenry. CHUCK essentially what I CASTO: told him,
Yes,
and
think
that's
Charlie.
I think that's
what he got out of it. NADER: Just Chuck, real this is Nader. I don't know if you're
quick,
aware of this, but the Japanese have these monitors in various areas across their country that have live sort of data. Is there any downside for Kirk (phonetic) to
try to get his hands on this live information? CHUCK CASTO: can pursue that. And, also, you may not be aware that Yes, I don't think so. I
tomorrow morning at 9:00 a.m. flights. NADER: CHUCK
FERMAC is
going to start
Tomorrow morning? CASTO: Yes. Well, our time
tomorrow morning, which will be tonight for you. MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes, it's 9:00 a.m.
Tokyo time tomorrow morning. CHUCK CASTO: Right. Yes. Yes, that : they
NEAL R.GROSS
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186
1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17
are going to have air assets and sample. MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: information, us. CHARLIE MILLER: know, Are All right. Chuck, do you So, Okay. DOE will download that
and they have promised to get it
over to
did DOE get our fixed-wing aircraft over there? they putting portable equipment on aircraft
that's available to Japan? CHUCK Alan. CHARLIE MILLER: at Andrews (Inaudible) Vegas. are located was CASTO: I don't know. I can ask
Air Force Base and in they had
And I
just curious if
9'I can ask Alan when I see
CHUCK CASTO: him here next.
18
EU
221 22 23 24
25 pushing a little bit harder on --
CHARLIE MILLER: CHUCK CASTO:
Yes.
Yes,5 but we're
NEAL R. GROSS
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187 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 1i 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 right. CHARLIE reasonably-achievable MILLER: Which may be a more you know, some N CHARLIE MILLER: CHUCK CASTO: on it, it Okay. You know, if you can get
would be helpful. That would really help.
CHARLIE MILLER:CHUCK CASTO:
Yes. The other thing is I know of that, is
CHARLIE MILLER: (inaudible), about the and
(inaudible) the
concerned evacuation happen, House,
magnitude
general going to the white
of our citizens. decision will
I mean that's get made in
that too.
CHUCK
CASTO:
Yes,
absolutely.
mean
you've got military bases here. CHARLIE MILLER: And the question, too, I mean
I think what they've got to work out, opinion is whether you try to
my personal all these
evacuate
people from the country or you relocate them to a safe haven in a country, because there's many parts in the
country that won't be affected by this. CHUCK CASTO: Yes, that's a good point,
evacuation in
the near-term than
trying to get everybody out of the country. CHUCK CASTO: Yes. Yes. Somebody in one
NEAL R. GROSS
(202) 234-4433
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188 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 take there, CHUCK CASTO: CHARLIE Yes. -medical doctors on of those meetings or something brought up KI, you
know,
but I don't
think,
we don't have an
inventory
over here.
We don't have enough inventory over here
for 170,000 people. CHARLIE MILLER: And more than that,
there's been a lot on TV in
the last number of hours
MILLER:
because there's a run on KI on the West Coast
of the United States out of panic. CHUCK CASTO: Yes. And -oversold. people not to
CHARLIE MILLER: CHUCK CASTO: CHARLIE this stuff
And it's
MILLER:
Telling
just as a precautionary measure when in no harm's way -other health
you're
absolutely
effects can occur from it. CHUCK CASTO: Yes. So, it isn't something
CHARLIE MILLER: that you take light. of being ill, a lot of
For people who may at the risk But there's could cause
that's a different matter. that go into that. It
things
other health effects. CHUCK CASTO: Right.
NEAL R. GROSS
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189 Well, So, let me get our team just walked in a briefing from them, from TEPCO. call
and I'll
you back in,

now
--
unless you need something from me right
CHUCK guys just came in Also,
CASTO:
Yes.
And
that's
why
the=
from TEPCO. I heard there's a possibility that
we may get into EOC tomorrow morning. CHARLIE MILLER: CHUCK CASTO: then, we're still Okay. EOC. And,
The regulatory is
pushing to get into TEPCO's EOC. Okay.
CHARLIE MILLER:
CHARLIE MILLER: CHUCK

back if there's
Absolutely. So, I'll give you a call
CASTO:
anything --
CHARLIE MILLER:
CHUCK CASTO: --
All right.
significant out of the
TEPCO briefing.
NEAL R.GROSS
fg9Y2i 1.4-44,
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W. WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealr~qross.comn
190 CHARLIE MILLER: CHUCK CASTO: Okay. Thank you, Chuck.
All right.
Thank you.
Appreciate the call. Thanks.
Yes.
NEAL R.GROSS
191
1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DoD, that guys on give it me right
(CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) CHUCK CASTO: Hey, Charlie. are you there?
Chuck,
Yes,
I'm here. Good.
CHARLIE MILLER: CHUCK CASTO: away, anything?
Okay.
Okay. I
You got something for want to give you some
information from TEPCO. CHARLIE MILLER: to me first, and, Okay. then, I Maybe you should need to give you
some updated information,
and we got a recommendation
from the Reactor Safety people. CHUCK CASTO: Okay. But we need to hear -Good, because that's what
CHARLIE MILLER: CHUCK we're talk now, is CASTO:
reactor safety. Okay. And you I'm going the to put the But
CHARLIE MILLER: CHUCK with you CASTO: to give
specifics.
here's the basic strategy we would like to propose to you guys: That you talk with Admiral Mueller and
and we're going to give you a list needs to to be moved plant to as the
of equipment American move the
closest to
facility
that
possible,
NEAL R.GROSS
MIMq IVIA
AATI
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rur.MTr
. o fY
qrm 1
nalnrmmac r-nm
192 1 2 3 equipment, is to the air base or whatever military base possible place that Americans can do of
the closest
their own thing. equipment.
We're going to give you a list
5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 1 17 1 19 2 21 22 23 24 2 with TEPCO. Admiral Yokota. are big pumps country.
Mueller,
he's
got
pumps
somewhere
in-
CHARLIE MILLER: CHUCK CASTO: somewhere
Okay.
Admiral Mueller has got four here that he's been
in-country
trying to sell.
They're in Yokota. Those are the ones that ones that I'm talking
MALE PARTICIPANT: probably at Yokota, the
about. CHUCK Are they diesel? MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK Mueller CASTO: has got I don't know. whatever big diesel they pumps are, at CASTO: Yes. Yes, diesel pumps?
Well, four
That and all the other equipment we're going of what needs to be moved to the so we can
to give you a list
closest American installation pre-stage it
to the plant,
as soon as possible. And we've kind of broken a little They haven't been -bit here
they've been kind of
stiff-arming us,
but at least we're talking with them NEAL R. GROSS

I')fV)% AZA.
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193 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 back, that John, because about today, pools. equipment. units. CHARLIE MILLER: All right. Let's get So, have them and discussing designs of cooling water systems. John TEPCO. well, and Tim and them have made So, some progress So, with
they're at least starting to talk about,
maybe we can pump some water to these things. So, give I'm going to put them on the phone and you the Is attributes that okay? Yes. Dave Skeen is Okay? I'm going here the pumps and
equipment that's needed.
CHARLIE MILLER: with me from RST.
He's taking those. Okay.
CHUCK CASTO:
All right. Hold on. All right,
to put you on hands-free here. MALE PARTICIPANT:
Tim
Cohn
(phonetic) and John Monager and Tony. JOHN MONAGER: So, what we were thinking
they need cooling for the four spent-fuel we're looking for essentially for the this four
Multiply everything
by four
when you get finished,
we'll get back to recommendation
we've got an alternative
on that for some of the pools. JOHN MONAGER: Okay. Good. Something that we can
MALE PARTICIPANT: take to TEPCO?
We've got a meeting tomorrow morning. NEAL R.GROSS

n5 '
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%A1AQW1Kk-.Tr%1 nP
0( 'XW _'A7(A1
jnrc'
194 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1 1 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 2 2 We'll do. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: I Please proceed. Okay. So, the notion it. MALE PARTICIPANT: Okay, John, okay. possibly floor. MALE PARTICIPANT: So, if I send it to So, email it email to CHARLIE MILLER: MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes. Yes. Okay. Yes. Well, you can
email us that as soon as possible. MALE PARTICIPANT: to get you guys? MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE catch PARTICIPANT: you? We Okay. Hey, where they is a good your Yes, where is the email
understood
took
BlackBerrys away. MALE PARTICIPANT: No, we've got them.
to any of us. MALE PARTICIPANT: (Inaudible) on the
fourth floor, and we get the webmail. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: "encrypt") We got them back. And there's (inaudible,
on that computer up on the fourth
Chuck and Tim and --
MALE PARTICIPANT:
That's fine.
We'll get
NEAL R.GROSS
I-% nAAI
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 1A1A4ZL41Mf'rW nN rl 9 ')AIW.7f
vAwnaArnr^Q
rnrr
195
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 notion. Now, I guess what NEAL R.GROSS
was
fire
departments for water.
have We
those want to
ground-based get
rocket
launchers ways of the air
two different
shooting water approximately from a distance of 50
30 meters up in away at 500
meters
gallons per minute. You know, those backup trucks, fire rocket to that, so one notion is on the have you would have and as a
launchers you would
ground, the
aerial
ladder
the aerial fire department snorkel truck. So, you would have both means. the You would
have
land-based pumps powering
fire rocket pumps of 30 meters per
from the ground from 50 minute. snorkel meters
shooting at a distance away, a capacity of 500
gallons
We would also somehow look for those ladder trucks that could also reach that 30-meter
elevation distance at somewhere around 500 gallons per minute. MALE monitor nozzles. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Monitor nozzles? Correct. And a ladder PARTICIPANT: Yes, they're called
truck usually will have one on the very end of it. MALE PARTICIPANT: Okay. So, that's the
they were
saying,
the
196 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 1 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 guess, type of issue with that is the head loft and that positive
suction head sucking from the ocean. MALE PARTICIPANT: pipe for the suction pipe. MALE need rigid pipe. meters or so for PARTICIPANT: And each Yes. Yes, is plus, you 800 need know, Plus, you need a rigid
the distance unit. So,
probably
you probably the -you
some type
of booster
pump down by
probably a diesel booster pump right down by the ocean there, there, about and, sucking you in there, so there's that not pipe, fire much head up
know,
pressurizing
going
800 meters also, the
or so to the rocket same thing for the
launchers trucks
fire
positioned up there. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: (inaudible). Yes, and that also, I
the suction from the ocean, strainers. Because if
you would need some you just pulled in,
eventually,
you're just going to clog up -MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Right. -the fire rocket
things and the ladder truck. MALE PARTICIPANT: So, you're looking for
these booster pumps from our assets that DoD has? MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes. Yes, or any place
NEAL R. GROSS
197
in the U.S. Government. MALE trucks, however, PARTICIPANT: probably Right. have And the to come fire from
would
Japanese assets domestically, MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT:
I would think -Yes.

--
unless
you
have
information that's different. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: if we had military them up, bases We'll work it. We'll work it. Yes. I But, mean, Okay? even they
I mean, could
here,
airlift 13 14 15 1E bottom? it.
helicopter them up? Okay. I got it. I got
MALE PARTICIPANT:
MALE
PARTICIPANT:
Strap
them
on
the
MALE PARTICIPANT: 1E it to DoD to figure out. MALE PARTICIPANT: 2C 21 MALE the attributes, PARTICIPANT:
Well,
let's
just
leave
We'll work it. If we

--
just
give
them
let them figure out Yes. John,
22
23 24 25
Okay. do you think the fire launcher, the
fire, what you're calling a rocket

long-range nozzle --
NEALR.GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.corn
198 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 can mount mounted on they makes JOHN somehow, yes. MALE those PARTICIPANT: in a monitor Yes, do you Or know is if MONAGER: That sit on the ground
version?
that
only for at the top of the ladder truck? JOHN MONAGER: them on They make both kinds. or they're You
the ground trucks. I
physically called
ladder
think
they're
monitor nozzles. MALE PARTICIPANT: nozzle on the ground, that high. JOHN MONAGER: No, it It will. can. They've got both it's But if it's a monitor
probably not going to get

--
(inaudible, possibly "fog")
MALE PARTICIPANT: one of those rocket
Yes,
yes.
I mean, you know,
if and
things don't work, we would have
each one shoots 100 gpm, one. You know,
five for each
whatever it
takes to get 500 gpm's up then, we're
there with the head launch from the ocean and, the height of the reactor building, which
estimating to be 30 meters. MALE PARTICIPANT: You said it was 800
meters to the ocean. NEAL R.GROSS

I9n\
44.4
www.nealraross.com
199 1 2 3 MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE change there? MALE PARTICIPANT: for that. MALE number, PARTICIPANT: We don't have the We don't have a number PARTICIPANT: Yes. What's the elevation
4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30. But if
but you could probably -MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Less than 30 meters. Yes. So, it's probably
you put the booster pump right down by the
ocean,
you should be fine, right? MALE PARTICIPANT: Well, we don't know
what we'll find. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: less than 30 meters. MALE PARTICIPANT: is Yes, but that's what Okay. Yes, but it's something
they were worried about, NPSH.
that high volume and the
21
Got it. So, I think, you know,
23
you can't draw that much volume that far away with the fire trucks.
--
24 2
24
So,
that's
why you
need
some
booster
pump
MALE PARTICIPANT:
Right,
right.
NEALR, GROSS
200 1 2 3 4 5 6
7 that's
--
MALE ocean. MALE 10 meters, right?
PARTICIPANT:
--
to
pump
by
the
PARTICIPANT: So,
Well,
the tsunami
was
30-feet tall. It's So, 17. okay, 17. So,
8 9 1 11 12 13 14 1 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 mentioned apart, is idea. that the
MALE PARTICIPANT:
MALE PARTICIPANT:
Fifty.
-50 feet. So, it's
probably more like 30 feet height difference, meters, 30 feet, I would believe. Yes, it's very
not 30
MALE PARTICIPANT: local fire
likely
departments
have
the capability put up a
right now to do this. tanker truck.
All you need to do is
MALE PARTICIPANT:
We've got
the general
MALE
PARTICIPANT: since all
One
other
thing
they blew
that, is So,
these
buildings
the debris
blocking them getting real close can you throw in Is a bulldozer? any type I mean of
to the buildings. MALE remote-control
PARTICIPANT: equipment like
there
that?
they
probably designed stuff for Chernobyl and all. MALE PARTICIPANT: Well, when asking for
NEAL R.GROSS
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201 1 2 3 4 path. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE path, PARTICIPANT: Yes. They need to clear a anything, ask for whatever we can get. MALE PARTICIPANT: They need to clear a
5
6 7 8 9 10
1
and their radiation fields are screaming. MALE PARTICIPANT: Do they have anything vehicles to do their
there
in
terms
of
shielded
surveys? MALE PARTICIPANT: that. Yes, They have not told us
but we can find that out as soon as we get
12 13 1 1
out of this and make a phone call. MALE PARTICIPANT: Okay. I know the
Ukrainians have that. MALE lead come, just PARTICIPANT: the blocks I mean lead, and all? how does Is there
pelletized lead? MALE 1 20 21 22 23 24 25 Officer. wondering, PARTICIPANT: lead. And That's I what I was
pelletized
think we're also
going to need -MALE PARTICIPANT: Bill Borchardt is This is the Operations
coming on the bridge. I think, also, lots of
MALE PARTICIPANT: dry chemicals. MALE PARTICIPANT:
Do
you
have
other
NEAL R. GROSS
202 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 (inaudible), the line? BILL BORCHARDT: Yes, I did. We're then, go something. MALE PARTICIPANT: Hey, Bill, you came on assets that you're recommending or have you gone
through the list? MALE PARTICIPANT: Well, I'm sure they
have lead shielding from the outages. MALE PARTICIPANT: to need a lot more than that. MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes, but it's Of course, we're going
getting ready to meet with the Chairman and, into the hearing. I'm calling to see if
there was
anything that changed that I need to let the Chairman know about. MALE PARTICIPANT: Thanks, Bill. This is
19 20
18>
22 23
/ 24
25
N
l
.
n

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A.4
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13 14
15 16
17 18 19 20 21i 22 23 2 2BILL BORCHARDT: MALE that phone call don't know who it that PARTICIPANT: typed it All right. Somebody it that was on I
up and sent
to him.
was or how it numbers think on
was that he got a copy it. they So, have we got some that
had different up. I still
cleared
reading
NEAL R.GROSS
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1 2 3
angst about that No.
4.. Bil.l?
You got any questions on that, BILL BORCHARDT: MALE PARTICIPANT: a TEPCO meeting. some help on No.
4
5 6 7 8 9 10 !1 12 13 14 1 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 2 25 great. Operations know, you came in,
The other one is
we had to
They seem much more the spent-fuel pool.
receptive
maybe
Now we're and
working on trying to design some kind of systems to move assets to American installations
as close to some pumps,
the plant as we can to pre-stage assets, piping, all to stray the spent-fuel pools. And extensive list they've also given us
qui te
an
of items that they need for themselves,
that. they wanted 'fo themselves. So, we're just now getting started. on As the
we're for:
just the
now getting spent-fuel
started and,
pumping their list
system
pools
then,
of needs. BILL BORCHARDT: Okay. And INPO, you.
has indicated their willingness with finding equipment
to participate, that kind of
especially thing.
and
MALE And I
PARTICIPANT: think your our
Well, suggestion
that is
would that hook
be the up
Center,
Operations
Center,
with Admiral Mueller.
He's got those pumps that he's NEAL R. GROSS
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205 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Chuck. Mike Weber, anything else? No, it's Charlie, Charlie? We haven't Bill. Sorry. had a ourselves. maybe the been trying to push up there for a day or two. we're saying, yes, move And
them up to the site or up to
an American facility nearby. And Ops so, I think can between us INPO locate and all DoD, this
Center
help
equipment. BILL BORCHARDT: MALE PARTICIPANT: For instance, Okay. And we're adding some
lead and some other things
that we know that they're going to need long-term. BILL BORCHARDT: Right. Okay. Thanks,
CHARLIE MILLER: BILL BORCHARDT: CHARLIE MILLER: chance to tell has got Chuck yet,
Oh, it's No.
but the Reactor Safety Team recommendations given with regard that they we We
some alternative
to dealing with basically don't have
the pools, lost
the fact integrity.
structural
And
recommend that
they put water on anymore.
need a way to be able to deliver sand. MALE PARTICIPANT: up onto the conference bridge. BILL BORCHARDT: NEAL R.GROSS
Chairman Jaczko coming
Yes,
that's
fine,
206 1 2 3 Charlie. I think we do both, and there may be some
pools that have geometry for water and some pools that might be sand. CHARLIE MILLER: BILL know, BORCHARDT: Right. So, we go both. You
multiple solutions here. DAVE SKEEN: Chuck, is
We have both staged. this is Dave Skeen.
7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 1 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 2 at least give me, we are 3? is here? continue reactors
Our understanding with on spent-fuel and 3,
that we want you to 1 and 2 and put possibly, the "if
pools
1, 2,
(inaudible,
you're putting water in there, NRC CHAIRMAN
that's a good thing.") Can I interject
JACZKO:
This Greg Jaczko. CHARLIE MILLER: Yes, Mr. Chairman. This
Charlie Miller here. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: CHARLIE MILLER: Fine. Hey, John, can you Hi. How are you?
NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: just at a very high level,
the basis for what 1 and No.
referring to as our Recommendations
Just very high level on what the technical basis, 1, what is going on at the site? Chairman, we've got pools that
or I mean really No.
CHARLIE MILLER: one, and maybe two,
Mr.
spent-fuel
25
have lost their ability to be able to hold the fuel. NEAL R.GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. NW.
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207 1 2
3
NRC Is this Charlie?
CHAIRMAN
JACZKO:
Okay.
I'm sorry.
CHARLIE MILLER:
Charlie --
4 5
NRC CHAIRMAN can you just speak a bit more slowly? CHARLIE there are at least little
JACZKO:
Oh,
whoever and a
it
is,
bit louder
little
MILLER: one,
Okay.
Mr.
Chairman, pools In some for
maybe two,
spent-fuel
9 10 11 12 13 1 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2
that have lost their ability to contain the fuels. other words, it's It uncovered. may be just the It's in
configuration. all we know.
(inaudible),
Therefore,
the doses from that,
I mean the which are
radiation levels from that are going way up, getting much larger reading. with the conditions We think,
with that and
that we know about the reactors, expand the
that we need to expand the recommendation, recommendation for evacuation. NRC because fuel the CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Okay. of are
So, the
it's spentwe to is
radiation the
levels, radiation no
because levels
integrity, that
high, actions
believe undergo,
there's
other mitigative
taking place right now for the reactors,
that correct? CHARLIE MILLER: Not that we're aware of,
NEALR.GROSS
208
I
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 11 12 13 14 1 1 17
unless Chuck has information we don't. CHUCK CASTO: Yes, they've pretty sir, much I Yes, think thanks, our Charlie. feeling to is that
abandoned
attempts
mitigate
particularly the spent-fuel pools. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: point, we expect that will Got it. progress So, to at some a more
significant condition? CHUCK CASTO: Yes. Okay.
NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: CHUCK CASTO:
Without interceding. Okay. Thank you. I
NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: appreciate that. CHUCK and it CASTO:
And we're
in
the process,
seems they are somewhat receptive to devising a whether pool, water or sand, depending strategy on the
strategy, spent-fuel U.S.
but devising a
and moving
18
19 20 21 22 2 2
2
assets
towards
the site onto American property,
onto American facilities to pre-stage. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE getting access? CHUCK more, CASTO: I've got, we're getting PARTICIPANT: Okay. And, Chuck, are you
I would say, slowly, we're getting more access.

MALE PARTICIPANT: Okay.
NEAL R.GROSS
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209 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 regulators, government TEPCO, CHUCK CASTO: Conti. it's is not We've got access to the
meetings, though
We've got access now to widespread with TEPCO.
even
And my understanding
tomorrow we may get access to
TEPCO EOC and the regulators -MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: Okay. No, I'm sorry, the
NISA's EOC,
not TEPCO's yet. Okay. Okay, good.
Our push is
to continue to
get access to TEPCO's Emergency Operations Center. MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: for the regulator, be fantastic. we're It Okay. looks like we've got it That will then, some you real
and that will be great. if we That can will get TEPCO, us
And good.
know,
give
information. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: for the reactor conditions? CHUCK CASTO: The Reactor Safety Team What is the timing
people are probably the best people to answer that. MALE just got out of PARTICIPANT: a meeting We with asked the them --we the They not
22 23
24 25
for
reactors,
not the spent-fuel, they have
but the reactors. injection. They're
currently believe
NEAL R.GROSS
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210 1 2 3 sure what but the levels are in the reactor pressure for
vessel,
they do
believe
they have
injection
all the reactors. MALE PARTICIPANT: do not have instrumentation, Let's be clear. Chairman. They
They have no
6 7 8 4 9 5
instrumentation, in
that's
and they're seeing some fluctuations They're

the
--
water
level.
into
making
you
presumption
we really
that
don't
going
know,
know,
is
it
or isn't
it? Right. They're seeing
12 13 1 10 15 16 17
fluctuations in water levels. that it's
There's no confirmation
actually going anywhere. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Okay. then? Yes. And, then, also, So, we still
11
concur with the recommendations, MALE PARTICIPANT: I would say, to meet on Chairman, this
just as an anecdotal, thing again
they want tomorrow
spent-fuel
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
morning at 10 o'clock
from now. I mean --
or something.
That's 12 hours

MALE PARTICIPANT: --
Okay.
we
Yes.
don't see --
that's not a sense of urgency here. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes. 12 hours from
You know,
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211 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 21 22 23 21 2 I mean go ahead, now, to have a meeting about a mitigation strategy for
the spent-fuel pool. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE PARTICIPANT: Mr. Chairman, So, Okay. we're just going to
we're just going to go ahead needed towards the military
and start moving what we think is site and get or it staged wherever. on So,
American that,
installations,
ultimately,
someone at a high
level will give permission to move
the stuff into the site. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: So, Chuck, anything? Okay. Okay. Good. calm -those right but
You're still with
we're
moving So, any
forward
recommendations. now, if you know, if
hesitation you have
you've got something right now, done.
not, we're pretty much it's
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1 2 3 4
5 7
8 9
11 12 13 14 1 16 1 18 19 2 2 22 23 24 25
NEAL R,GROSS
213 1 2 3 4 mitigation CHUCK CASTO: And other than that, sir,
we're good with all four of them and ready to go. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: CHUCK mode, CASTO: now that Okay. Good. into got the that
We're
moving
we've -done that,
protecting people out of the way. 7
We're trying to get
a lot more aggressive on the mitigation side. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Okay. for the And just to folks we the in
9 10 11 12 13 14 1 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
confirm,
and
this the
may is
be still
Headquarters, from event, a
event action
driven, by
think, reactor
protective
standpoint is
not the spent-fuel, MALE
that correct? No, Chairman, I would from
PARTICIPANT:
say that we believe, what we know, in
from the spent-fuel
alone,
that's the biggest change at this point recommendation. Okay. I Okay. that's an
time for the change in
think
important subtlety. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: terms of the 50 miles, last I Okay. knew, Okay. But in
that was coming
more from the Unit 2 than from the spent-fuel pool. MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes, and I think the is,
information we're getting for protective measures even if you add the others, it's going
to get a lot
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214 1 2 3
4
more screaming hot.
But if
you go out to 50 miles,
think you're going to see the thing to the point where that's probably still the appropriate recommendation
5
6

MALE PARTICIPANT: --
Okay.
given the current
7 8 9 10 1 12 13 14 1 1
17
meteorological conditions and everything. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Well, thanks, everybody. Yes. Okay. Okay.
Good work.
Keep at it.
I'm going to go testify. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE Chairman. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT:
--
Thank you. Good
Good luck. luck, Mr.
PARTICIPANT:
Thank you.
Now could we continue? Yes, we'll continue on
and Tim and John will continue on that.
18 19 2C 21 22 23
24
BILL interrupt
BORCHARDT:
This
is
Bill.
Let
me
for just one second because
I want to make
sure that I'm clear when I talk to the Chairman. The thought was due change to in our recommendations about I the
Chuck's
understanding
integrity of the Unit 4 spent-fuel pool.

MALE PARTICIPANT: Well, and
--
25
BILL BORCHARDT:
Yes,
go ahead.
NEAL R.GROSS
www.nealrgross.com
215
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 that it's one, the new, MALE PARTICIPANT: it get In gone. Our understanding of
the Unit 4 spent-fuel pool is the side bottom of such that it will fuel.
has been destroyed on no water above the
the active
effect, Whereas,
the sides of before the
the reactor
building are
explosion went upwards and took the top, lead us to believe that the sides are gone. BILL BORCHARDT: additional pool, source-term, which is Right. which us
the pictures
And so, is the
it's Unit
the 4 our
spent-fuel
causing
to change
recommendation for protective action? MALE PARTICIPANT: the Unit 4, long-term. up here, because it The unit they had Now that's not a worst
will be like that maybe in 3 one, the currently, metal/water when we
showed
reaction
going, and the Unit ls and 2s were boiling. CHUCK CASTO: I Bill, this is Chuck.
think the other part of that was we've and and final
just not seen any mitigation of any of the events, we would just all take the all four the spent-fuel into pools the
probably
reactors
conclusion because we've not seen any mitigation. BILL BORCHARDT: CHUCK CASTO: Yes, So, right. you've got to assume
going to go to the final -NEAL R.GROSS
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216
1
2 3 4 5 6
BILL understand that. focus on Unit 2,
BORCHARDT:
Fine.
Okay.
And
I couldn't understand the Chairman's unless i was misunderstanding what
conversation was going on. CHARLIE MILLER: Bill, this is Charlie.
I think what he -MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes, somebody did run a
8 9 10 11 12 13 14 1 16 17 18 19 2 21 22 23 24
2
RASCAL
on Unit 2. JIM TRAPP: It's based Yes, on Bill, the this is Jim Trapp. and the case
RASCAL
runs,
RASCAL runs we had, two days ago,
remember we had that worst
and we had a couple of RASCAL runs done. Unit 4,
And what our RASCAL run said was worst-case, (inaudible, possibly "pit") 4,
was bounded by the Unit
2 meltdown with no fission product barriers. So, that's why the Chairman remembered
that and was more focused on Unit 2. BILL BORCHARDT: make sure that if no one Yes, but I just want he says to as
takes, anything
implying that, life is
they resolve the issues with Unit 2, Right?
going to be a lot of better. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: No.
They've got 1, 3 and 4,
and maybe
--
this is
likely to go to 4 through spent-
fuel pools lost and --
NEAL R.GROSS
217 BILL BORCHARDT: got it.

MALE PARTICIPANT: -(inaudible, possibly
Right,
right.
Okay.
"nuclear")
reactors lost. MALE PARTICIPANT: And to be honest, today declared this an
is
Daiichi,
right?
Daiene
emergency,
and they're also having trouble with spent-
fuel cooling at Daiene. BILL BORCHARDT: go track the Chairman down. MALE PARTICIPANT: MARGIE: This is Margie? CHUCK CASTO: MARGIE: Hey, Yes, Marge. Okay, so yesterday flow for maybe from 10 Can I I've got it. Thanks, guys. I've got to
All right. ask a question of Chuck?
Chuck.
we started getting a pretty good information a little while. But we It got did stop an after about flow
hours.
information
Mopa
(phonetic) and a guy, As interpreters information going. again in and a
a contact that we have here. result, we them called to give in us some the that
we
told
Japanese,
and we started
to get
I can try to go through those informal panels right now, if that will help. I don't know
whether that will help or hurt at this point. NEAL R.GROSS

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218 CHUCK CASTO: Margie, I think some of that And we're setting the channels are
may have been overcome by events. 3 4 up a meeting tomorrow. I think
reopening. There was kind of a breakdown for a while
6 7 8 9 1 11 12 13 14 1 1 17 18 19 2 21 22 23
today,
and there's a back-story to that I'll
tell
you
over a beverage someday. opening back up. Let's if it you suggest, until if
But I think the channels are
try to give it, you don't mind,
if
you don't mind, let's try to give our time, Is and, that
tomorrow midday or something
then, okay?
see how those channels
open back up.
MARGIE:
Well,
I think that's okay,
but I
want to be clear here. guys. Mopa. CHUCK understand that. MARGIE: it, to if be CASTO: It was a
The channels weren't with you coming into NRC through
back-panel
Right.
Yes.
Yes,
we
Okay.
Okay, on it. could but
but we can
sit
on
you want us to sit here if all we day. We
I mean we're going be if working on this us to
stuff, sit --
get
something,
you want
24
2
CHUCK CASTO:
I would ask that we sit
on
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219
I
2
3
it
for right now to see --
MARGIE:
CHUCK
Okay.
CASTO:
--
how
the
dialog
progresses. MARGIE: Okay. If we pursue if it, when we
CHUCK CASTO: 7 8 9 1 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 we'll minute. -CHARLIE MILLER: to inject. But get back let's go here, again. We want were giving us. CHUCK CASTO: Charlie. I'm sorry. the problem. MARGIE: CHARLIE Yes. MILLER:
think we've prepared the dialog,

it will look --
we pursue it,
then
MARGIE:
Okay. So, that might exacerbate
CHUCK CASTO:
Okay.
Thanks. this is Charlie
Chuck,
to get back to the list
that you
Okay.
We've got to inject
You know how things are
dynamic. TEPCO just called and they have some more
ahead with
Tim,
and,
then, in a
to you with TEPCO's
inject here
Thank you.
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220 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 1 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 the water CHUCK CASTO: the equipment. Okay, we were talking about
I think we went through -One last thing.
MALE PARTICIPANT: (Inaudible), CHUCK CASTO:
Filters,
hoses,
fittings, if
I we
guess monitors to shoot the water, can get it. And right now,
a bulldozer, is getting
John
the of
specific specs from TEPCO on what the requirements
those pumps need as far as net positive suction heads, heights, getting. MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK soon as we can. MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: into these Okay. CASTO: Okay. get that to you as and everything. That's what I believe he's
We'll
Their suggestion was to pump that they talked about
pools
earlier
when
they
were
injecting
borated
seawater.
They had those intermediate pools setup. a possibility. pumping into an So, if
That's still
we need to have this equipment pool, and then pump work. it
intermediate
again up to the building,
that would still
I know you mentioned earlier that you had some other mitigating work. NEAL R. GROSS
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actions
you thought might also
221 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 lost, pool. CHUCK could put water in CASTO: them, But the other ones, if we because morning, CHARLIE MILLER: Yes. and The Reactor Safety I'm going to let it
Team has been doing some work,
Dave Skeen walk you through what they are because would pools, change at of least for the pools, have lost
the spent-fuel their integrity
course,
that
completely. CHUCK we're CASTO: to Okay. have a I'll be writing tomorrow
going
meeting
and we'll give this info to them. DAVE SKEEN: Okay. That's great, Chuck.
We've been doing some brainstorming here, trying to figure out if on 3 and 4 spent-fuel they've really lost integrity pools. The structural people
are saying there's really no use to put water on there anymore because all you're going to do is contamination. As it steams, spread the
you're going to make the
contamination worse. CHUCK CASTO: This is Chuck.
I think they only have one spent-fuel pool that's lost geometry, right, and lost structure. Unit 4, we think they
DAVE SKEEN:
Yes,
blew the wall out of the side of the spent-fuel
you still
would want
to put
NEAL R. GROSS
222 water in them, wouldn't you? MALE water in speak know, it in them, but PARTICIPANT: Yes. If we can get
they still are unable
are even trying that as we to do it. As if far as we
now,
the other three will hold water, there to some extent.
we can get they said,
One of them,
seismically, might be cracked, DAVE SKEEN: been dry this long, it's already if
but we don't know that. But, again, if it's
Right.
they've had the zirc possibly "slumped")
fire and the fuel
(inaudible,
that was there --
CHUCK CASTO:
DAVE SKEEN:
Yes.
-by putting water in there
and
steaming
it,
all
you're
doing
is
spreading
the
contamination with the steam at some point. CHUCK Dave, let's CASTO: Yes. But, like I said,
go both paths.
Let's do a water path and
a sand path. DAVE SKEEN: I agree. You have to be
ready to do both things.
And we have to assume that 1 eventually, we will
and 2 are headed the same way and, have to do sand there. CHUCK CASTO: and 2, do Right. both 3
You're paths.
right. So,
Let ' s
go
ahead I and
solution and 4,
recoi mend
water;
since
they had
NEAL R. GROSS
223 zirc/water reactions, 2 3 4 to do something different. Yes, and that's probably just
DAVE SKEEN:
drop sand and try to shield, you're trying to cut down dose at this point. So, you're just trying to cover
up the ruble that's left. CHUCK CASTO: 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 you know. DAVE SKEEN: CHUCK CASTO: And, a crust built up. DAVE SKEEN: That's right. too. Right, So, because also, it Yes. Go about spreading it. depends on whether there is Now did you read the NUREG? Dave, it can about putting water help. They still
I know you read the NUREG, on the molten fuel, that
recommend it. DAVE SKEEN: CHUCK CASTO: Right. It depends on how you do it,
you'll be insulating the ruble, going to build up and it's at some point,
the heat is But, to
going to last longer.
you have to figure out what's worse, longer,
let the things be hot and burn a little if the shield is insulated, So, or is that's it the
even
worse to spread kind out. the ground over of line
more
contamination?
you've got to walk to try to figure it And if you guys are on
NEAL R.GROSS
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224 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 1 19 20 2 22 23 24 2 you can get is from a you, we there, you can probably get better information than we have. CHUCK CASTO: to haul yet. Well, in they thought about They
taking a helicopter just haven't tried it waiting for.
sand or water.
I don't know what they're
DAVE SKEEN: were doing
Yes,
right.
Now let me tell possibly (phonetic) over that
some
just
(inaudible, with PMP have
"back-of-the-invoice") about how much dose
talking rate
you should
four spent-fuel pools.
And it's
hundreds of thousands
of rads right now about 20 meters above the spent-fuel pool. CHUCK CASTO: helicopter isn't Okay. an Yes. isn't So, dropping really an
option,
option. DAVE SKEEN: some data But what I would say is, that that, tells you what if
the dose is
really now,
coming off
what your source-term
that will help you. And if you look back at Chernobyl, one of
the lessons they learned from that from the helicopter pilot -I think they had eight pilots that flew until basically -the cables that they had to
they died,
drop the sand,
that they had the sandbags or whatever NEAL R. GROSS
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225
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 2 2 too. NEAL R.GROSS
they had, were too short.
They had to get down so low
to the reactor they were taking more dose. CHUCK CASTO: DAVE SKEEN: Yes. So, if there's a way that the they can
pilots may know what are the longest cables use, if they start dropping material,
to give them as
much distance as you can, CHUCK CASTO:
they need to look at that. Hey, Dave, let's move, okay?
We're going to do both strategies. water. DAVE forget starting they had about SKEEN: 5 and Okay. 6.
Let's do sand and
And, You
also, know,
don't they're
Units
to heat up, a diesel
too.
Even though we had heard on 6 that was still 5
generator
working,
and once when we had heard that
the Unit
spent-fuel of the
pool had dropped to about within six feet fuel, but they were thinking that
top of the
they get some
cooling water back in
there with this
diesel from Unit 6. CHUCK CASTO: had cross-tied. into their But, Yes, we had heard that they as we're they invite to us get
hopefully, hopefully,
meetings,
going
more and more information as we go here. DAVE SKEEN: Yes, that's what our hope is,
www.nealrgross.com
226 CHUCK CASTO: 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 1 17 18 19 20 21 4, I Okay. DAVE SKEEN: think you've got But, from what we can tell on to try to somehow will taking Well, of we Unit from if recommended 2, because but that that not
the roof off to have
allow
them
access
above,
Unit 4 because they don't know, of the rest of that roof,
they try to get rid left of it --
or whatever is
The roof's gone. right?
There's nothing left,
a pretty open path
dump stuff down there. CHUCK CASTO: Right.
containment of over top of shielding,
DAVE
SKEEN: field went into the secondary over the top you could
the debris
and put some kind of debris So,
the spent-fuel pool.
I'm not sure,
probably dump sand on top of that debris field that's the pool and that would give you some
but you may not get down completely to the the spent-fuel pool on that Unit 3. again, we're just
ruble pile in
And,
22
23 24 2
NEAL R.GROSS
227 1 2 3 Hey, CHUCK CASTO: Should we continue this?
TEPCO wants the guys to come back over to work on
the designs. DAVE SKEEN: All right.
51
7 DAVE SKEEN: 9 1 1 12 13 1 1 16 17 18 19 2 2 22 23 2 2 CHUCK CASTO: All right. So, I want to get these guys
out of here and get over to TEPCO. MALE quick question. pumps, these in is it PARTICIPANT: All right, Chuck, a
The assets that you asked for, your understanding that time? the Navy
these has
place at this point in
Or do we have
to go out and search for it? CHUCK CASTO: No, Admiral Mueller has -Okay. Mueller has them
MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK here in-country. MALE PARTICIPANT: CASTO:
Admiral
All
right.
So,
you
want us to engage Admiral Mueller right now, for additional information? CHUCK CASTO: need those pumps. MALE PARTICIPANT: Okay. Yes,
not wait
we know we're going to
NEAL R.GROSS
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19M
228 CHUCK CASTO: So, get them, get those
pumps to the closest American installation that he can get them to, 4 5 to the site, until we get permission to
bring them into the site. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: All right. Got it.
7 because 9 10
CHUCK CASTO: the Navy has a
But give him the whole list lot more pumping pumps that
they have access to that we could use. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Okay. Got it. We've got. And I'm going to go I'm All right.
13 12 13
CHUCK CASTO: over another big list

going to go over --
Okay.
with you while the guys go.

I need to -maybe, Kirk,
can we
fax this list? 15 1 from TEPCO, 191 2 21 22 23 24 25 the case. another list, would, I will email the RST, what these specs are
as soon as we get them. And we're going to, material and I'm going to fax you And if if you you
they've asked for. it would be
Charlie
Dave,
great
could hook up with Admiral Mueller. phone number there. CHARLIE MILLER:
Somebody has his
e on We already have DavE
NEAL R.GROSS
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229 1 2 3 4 5 who can do CHUCK what. CASTO: It's Yes, and INPO, going have and decide to an be the
probably INPO don't
Admiral.
I'm guessing
aircraft
carrier or a C5. (Laughter.) So, it's probably going to keep to have to be -in, it might
7 8
but,
nevertheless,
INPO plugged
be nice. And, also, it would be nice, Dave, if you I
1 11 12 13 1 1 1 1 18 1 2 21 22 23 24
25
and INPO could get together on what you -know

Team,
you know,
you've
but if
done your
INPO
--
work
with
the
Reactor
Safety
CHARLIE MILLER: CHUCK pass on to Dave, CASTO: if
He's gone off, Okay. Well, if
Chuck. you could
they could get with INPO and get
their recommendations on how to address the spent-fuel pools, I know our guys are great and they're bright
and all that stuff,
but I'd also like to get INPO's,
because of a lot of experience Exelon and others have. It would be nice if we could see if they have any
other ideas. CHARLIE MILLER: DAVE SKEEN: Chuck.

So,
Got it. INPO right now,
We're with I
This is
Dave Skeen.
--
just stopped back in.
we're talking to INPO
NEAL R. GROSS
230 CHUCK CASTO: 2 3 4 5 6

7
Okay, you
great. on
If the
you get the line, get and
Admiral
and
INPO
and
guys
strategies
and get material resources
identified,
then when the guys get back from TEPCO, to have some more design needs, it.
they're going
or whatever you call
They're going to have some more system designs
for you --
8 910 1 12 13 1 15 16 1 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 that it?
MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: --
Okay. that TEPCO wants. Okay. So, thanks. Chuck. Is
MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: MALE Okay.
PARTICIPANT:
All right,
CHUCK CASTO:
Yes.
We're good. All right, we're good.
We'll talk soon. All right. Okay.
NEAL R,GROSS
T' 1
(CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) 2 3 MALE PARTICIPANT: Bill Borchardt coming
up on the ET conference. Mr. Borchardt, you're on the conference,
5 6 7 8 9 1 1 12 13 14 1 1 1 1 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
sir. BILL BORCHARDT: MALE PARTICIPANT: BILL BORCHARDT: room. The hearing has Thank you. Hey, Hi. Bill. So, we're in but we're a back just
started,
caucusing,
going over some facts. And what I just wanted to do was triplerecommendation- that Given we the that
check would
the have
50-mile under pool
evacuation a similar
circumstance. and
spent-fuel it's
on
Unit
the possibility
already had a fire,
would 50 miles still
be the
appropriate evacuation distance? MALE PARTICIPANT: that, Charlie? CHARLIE MILLER: at it, Bill. MALE PARTICIPANT: CHARLIE MILLER: is Mike's up there. Okay. Currently, as it Yes. Let me take a shot Do you want to answer
today with the meteorological
conditions,
we would
say yes. concern".)
But the PMP has (inaudible, One, RASCAL only goes
possibly "a main out to 50 miles.
NEAL R. GROSS
232 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8But 9 10 1 12 13 14 1 1 1 1 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 calculations Yes. CHARLIE that, MILLER: if the And wind they've shifts, even they got could saying is, So, we need some help from there to go out further
than that. But we've got some calculations that at 50 miles you would be getting doses beyond would protective only come action recommendations. if there's that show that are Now this shift,
into play
a wind
which is
expected this weekend. there are certain assumptions that go
into that with regard to the percentage of core melt and the number of pools that have lost their
integrity. BILL BORCHARDT: MALE it All right. So, then, what Charlie is to
PARTICIPANT:
could be worse;
you may have
evacuate beyond 50 miles. CHARLIE MILLER: Because I think the could to
message there would be that that recommendation potentially be altered if the situation
continues
degrade or does not get any better. MALE PARTICIPANT: Like beyond 50 miles.
affect Tokyo to that extent. that yet, although we
Now we have not verified (inaudible, possible
would
NEAL R.GROSS
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233 1 2 3
4
"love")
to have anybody run with that. BILL BORCHARDT: Okay. But even burn if, I
mean,
out
--
if
the
zirc
fire would eventually
itself
5
6
CHARLIE MILLER:
BILL BORCHARDT:
Right,
-and,
right.
then, the release
7 8 9 1 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
slows significantly down then? MALE PARTICIPANT: BILL BORCHARDT: Right. I mean it's kind of like
a finite time period burst of radioactivity that would be released? CHARLIE MILLER: BILL BORCHARDT: CHARLIE that, but you've too, MILLER: also that got, are Right. Right? Well, you it would be for core of than
know, in.
the And,
conditions, course,
weighing are
their calculations (inaudible,
showing for more
one spent-fuel
possibly "burning"). Yes, right. Bill, it it
BILL BORCHARDT: MALE PARTICIPANT:
They told us, if
would relate over a 24-hour period about zirc fire CHARLIE MILLER: BILL again? NEAL R.GROSS
(202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., NW. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701
was a
Right. I'm sorry, say that
BORCHARDT:
www.nealrgross.com
234
I
MALE release. burn. So,
PARTICIPANT:
It's
sustained worth of
2 3 4 5 6 7
you're talking
about a day's
CHARLIE MILLER: release should you put in exercise protective action. MALE PARTICIPANT:
I mean a day's worth of a condition that you would
Absolutely.
Oh,
yes,
but the isotopes will be out of that pool after about 9 1 11 1 13 1 1 1 17 18 19 20 2 22 23

2 hard to get
a 24-hour pool. CHARLIE MILLER: the point is we don't it's make Yes, right, right. that But we
any assumptions
would not evacuate if
24 hours. Right. Given I Right, what want right. Bill's to make
MALE PARTICIPANT: CHARLIE question was about MILLER: the
(inaudible),
sure you appreciate that. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE definitely want to PARTICIPANT: evacuate not Yes. And you would because
(inaudible)
after the event is ground (inaudible).
over you're going to have a lot of
BILL BORCHARDT: And I

a
Yes.
Right.
Okay. that
I
guess one other question

firm answer is --
it's
know
nice,
and
there's
three
cores'
worth
of
inventory
and
four
NEAL R.GROSS
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235 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 1 17 18 19 2C 21 22 23 24 2 sure of basis. we're if "revisit" right now. spent-fuel would that pools, and if you had all that activity,
cause us
to revisit
the U.S.
territories
issue that we're saying, you know, all along that it's extremely
we have been saying unlikely that there
would be any radiation exposure to the U.S. its and territories. four fuel But if
coast or
you took those three reactors it together, would that
pools and put
get us to revising that statement? CHARLIE first. Okay? BILL BORCHARDT: CHARLIE MILLER: Yes. Revising it, of course, MILLER: That's All exactly right, what he said doing
we're
would depend upon the meteorological MALE PARTICIPANT: we have one second to answer, CHARLIE MILLER: BILL BORCHARDT: MALE that. And doing PARTICIPANT: No. Okay. But
conditions.
But our best estimate, would be no.
we
want
to
make the is the
So, part the And,
we're going back to reconfirm of the challenge we're having in
source-term then,
analysis
(inaudible).
we go to NARAC,
but NARAC is
being directed by the Deputy to do runs. BILL BORCHARDT: Yes. Okay.
NEAL R. GROSS
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236 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 right. expectation. CHARLIE MILLER: It wou ldn't be a what I three Tokyo, too. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Right. Yes, and that's
the priority
MALE PARTICIPANT:
we need to --
So,
we don't always get
MALE PARTICIPANT:
And they're looking at
appropriate because --
BILL BORCHARDT:
MALE PARTICIPANT:
Yes.
-that :'s
the
first-
order priority. BILL BORCHARDT: Sure. similar to from the would at the
And I guess the other point is
was making before about the releases reactors and the four spent-fuel
pools
probably be sequential. exact same time, right?
They wouldn't be all
MALE PARTICIPANT:
Yes,
that would be our
simultaneous peak release. MALE PARTICIPANT: That wou .ld be a low
likelihood of that. BILL BORCHARDT: Thank you. MALE PARTICIPANT: Hey, Bill? Right. Yes. Okay. All
NEAL R.GROSS
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237
I 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 i1
16
BILL BORCHARDT: MALE PARTICIPANT: but,
Yes. I don't know whether the Japanese
you heard this or not,
apparently,
Emperor went on live TV today in
Japan and said he is
very concerned about the nuclear emergency. BILL BORCHARDT: MALE PARTICIPANT: people to pull together on Okay. You know, the he asked his and the
tsunami
earthquake response, So, at least
but he said he's very concerned. high-level recognition of the
there is
grave situation. BILL BORCHARDT: MALE PARTICIPANT: BILL BORCHARDT: Right. Okay? Thanks. And that's Okay.
consistent with that message we saw earlier today that
17 1 19 2 2 22 23 24 2 Bill.
MALE PARTICIPANT: BILL BORCHARDT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Bye-bye. BILL BORCHARDT:
Absolutely. Yes. Okay. Thanks. All right,
All right.
Bye.
NEAL R.GROSS
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238 1 (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) MIKE: 3 Hi, John. Hey, how you doing, Mike?
JOHN MONAGER: MIKE: Okay.
How are you? Good, good, good.
JOHN MONAGER: Oh,
my lord, that is
wonderful. Earlier today we
7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 2 2 23 2 2 have now, is about they
Hey,
we're calling back.
went up to a meeting at TEPCO and met with a couple of individuals little from the regulatory body, and they were a didn't make much
bit standoffish and, you know,
progress. However, I guess about two hours, probably
two and a half hours ago, wanted to meet again So, and
they called back and wanted to know how
quickly we could meet.
we went back up and just
met with them for a few hours to try to spec out some of this equipment. I'm not sure call earlier today, MIKE: Mike. I do. I've got the turnover. Okay. So, that's what we for the if you were involved in the
JOHN MONAGER:
more specifications
for cooling
four spent-fuel pools. MIKE: JOHN Okay. MONAGER: And the bottom line is,
NEAL R.GROSS
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239
well, would one is like they haven't to talk in accepted more it yet, but about they it
much
detail
4
tomorrow. But the bottom line is they need something by the weekend. 5
9
MIKE: until tomorrow? JOHN

process -even,
But why do they want to Why not now? MONAGER:

actually,
leave it
6 7 8 13 14 9 10 21 12 13
guess
the
this
people
approval
we met
today
with weren't
even with TEPCO.
One was with Toshiba
and two of them are with the Ministry, METI. MIKE: Okay. So, you know, it's just the as I'm
JOHN MONAGER: interesting, regulatory the dynamics. body coming up
You're with
talking about the solutions So,
14 16 17
opposed
not sure
to the licensee being at the plate.

--
MIKE:
(Inaudible). Yes, yes.
JOHN MONAGER: MIKE: 20 21 22 guess, is that So,
what do you need from us? We're going to describe, And I will I
JOHN MONAGER: a conceptual you guys system. somehow
guess the thought with INPO, the to
work
23
Department of Defense, see what's available. MIKE:
and everyone else out there
Okay.
Do
you
want
the
Reactor
NEAL R. GROSS
240
1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 21 22 23 24 25
Safety Team guys in
there now or -They've gone. All right. So, wait a
minute or keep rolling? MIKE: No, go. So, for the thought is each, one a fourseparate,
JOHN MONAGER: train system, one train
independent train for each spent-fuel pool. MIKE: JOHN starting strainers. think about are, to make at the Okay. MONAGER: ocean. And So, you're you going need to be
suction
And the suction strainers, the pulse and whatever gets
you're going to the fire nozzles the suction
sure whatever
through
strainer doesn't clog up the fire nozzle. MIKE: JOHN strainers. Then, Right. MONAGER: you're You going know, so a suction of
to have
length
piping from the ocean up onto the beach, you know, 20-30 meters or so. And
probably 20, elevation
that
change will be about 10 meters or so. So, going to put in right there, the notion is they're that need
diesel-driven booster pumps
to be able to handle a 10-meter suction head. MIKE: Okay. NEAL R.GROSS

241 JOHN 2 3 4 5 before was the MONAGER: pumps were The too problem far away. they've So, had now
they're doing two pumps. the beach and, building. So, then,
They're doing a pump down at right up at the reactor
pumps
you would need four diesel-driven fire the beach with a capacity for 10
pumps way down on
meters of suction head. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2C 21 22 23 24 2 put, then, And, 4, MIKE: Okay. And, then, for Units 1 and away. So, For
JOHN MONAGER:
they're both approximately
500 meters
for each of those, you need 500 meters of piping. the units in between, both of those. MIKE: Okay. 2 and 3,
you need 700 meters for
MALE PARTICIPANT:
The total distance from
the ocean to the launch point -JOHN MONAGER: actually, we didn't Yes, to the launch point. they need any
look whether
elbow bends or any of that kind of stuff. Then, the at the end of that piping you will diesel-driven spray pumps with a
capacity of 500 gallons per minute or greater,
capable
of shooting to a height of greater than 50 meters from a distance of greater than 100 meters. NEAL R. GROSS
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242 MALE PARTICIPANT: 2 3 4 5 6

7 but that --
Okay. Those things know, diesel-driven that I are fire
JOHN pumps would go the
MONAGER: into ground. those You
somehow
planted on cannons,
call
them fire
but some type of ground-mounted -MALE PARTICIPANT: Launch point. Well,
go ahead.
8 9 i 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 nozzles.
JOHN MONAGER:
Yes,
then it
you would
need
And for all this stuff, due to
has to be movable field. Like
and transportable
the radiation
both diesel generators,
I think the notion is
they are So,
skid-mounted on some type of trucks,
or whatever.
they just drive the truck up to those two points and the people I'm not get out of there extremely means with quickly. this So, piping
sure what
that comes
all
because I imagine it
in a section. Yes. everything has to
You know,
be highly movable and transportable. MALE PARTICIPANT: they're wanting us have these things to provide on a trailer Okay. I don't but think if we
the trucks, or
something,
that's
just fine. JOHN MONAGER: Yes. Then, they want
assistance with installation. NEAL R. GROSS

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(202) 234-4433
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243 1 2 3 4 5 running it. JOHN MONAGER: And operation, which I MALE PARTICIPANT: Installation and
think they would be probably the biggest issue so far. MALE PARTICIPANT: JOHN MONAGER: described, the line first there could be Yes. with that system we or in in the such you pipe and
6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 21 22 23 24 25 are going system.
Now,
the need eventually So, somewhere deductor,
place to add boron. put the educator,
you will
the
that you're able to suck boron from a tank. want some to way, be you able know, something the along
So, the
pathway mixed,
to have
boron
injected
in case they do need that. MALE PARTICIPANT: JOHN MONAGER: Anything else? Yes. So, that's one
Then, as a backup system, with aerial booms. MALE PARTICIPANT: JOHN MONAGER: to and lift the up,
four five trucks
Four pumper trucks?
With big aerial booms that you know, 20-30 meters by
themselves, shooting in.
water cannon
sitting on
the top
Okay. John, why just four?
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244 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 1i 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2C 21 2 23 24 2 minimum, Are you saying one per unit? One for Unit 4,
(inaudible, possibly "in
case of breakdown")" This is
or what?
MALE PARTICIPANT: JOHN MONAGER: Yes,
a minimum. the
all this stuff is
one for each unit, and the same way how we're one train for each. Okay. with that diesel if not 12, pumps
designing out that system,
You know,
storage tank, you've got at least 8, there. You've You've got four got of
four booster pumps at the spray pumps, So, and
the ocean. you've got
four fire engines.
I'm not sure whether you do 12
storage tanks or whatever makes sense. MALE PARTICIPANT: Now what kind of head
do you need between the booster pump location and the base of the building? right? JOHN MONAGER: MALE from the ocean to Now the 10 meters was It's 27 meters
--
That's a 10-meter
(inaudible),
PARTICIPANT:
--
total
JOHN MONAGER:
Yes. -right at the base of
MALE PARTICIPANT: the reactor building. JOHN MONAGER: Yes.
MALE PARTICIPANT: NEAL R.GROSS
So,
you need 20 meters
(202) 234-4433
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245 1 2 3 then, you know, to add a little conservatism, then, 20 meters, 10 the
meters suction at the first, and, second. MALE PARTICIPANT:
Hey, do you have a dose What does know? 300
5 6 7 8 9 10 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24
(inaudible,
possibly convert
"guide there")? to? Do you
millisieverts
Three
millisieverts is the rad field around there right now. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: That's 30 R per hour. There you go.
MALE PARTICTPANT: have operators in
Yes.
Rut they still
do
the control room,
and they have a is about 200 to
center onsite where they said that it 300 millirem, is what they tell us. JOHN MONAGER:
good, you know,
Then,
we went
into
some
all
somewhat good discussion on the --
right, actually, let me go backwards. NEAL R.GROSS

246
1 Then, the other notion, you know, some
2
3
type of remote-control
rad field
robots capable of going into a

and, also, remote cameras.
for measurement
How high a rad field?
5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 1 1I 1? 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 a bird's you know, of that. 4, floor is,
I would say extremely high.
MALE PARTICIPANT: JOHN MONAGER: Yes,
A thousand R? whatever the fuel pool Okay?
fuel pool floor, et cetera.
One thing, we went back and forth on Unit the spent-fuel whatever, pool and the notion of sand, because we believe the walls dirt, were
clay,
blown out and the water level is active bit, fuel. and we
at the bottom of the you know, and we quite a said
That took them back, went back and forth,
They said they don't have any indications They believe, which would be true, there
will be screaming radiation levels if knocked out. They said the walls,
those walls were
*
but the spentan aerial, floor, and,
could have been knocked
out,
fuel pool wall may not be the outermost wall. They showed us an aerial view, eye schematic the pool is of the spent-fuel (inaudible, NEALR. GROSS
possibly "one inner
247 wall"). 2 3 4 that, So, Unit 4, they had the a decent level of confidence hadn't been
spent-fuel
pool
walls to
blown out
and the success path was
flood that up
and not to go with sand, dirt, MALE PARTICIPANT:
or whatever. If they still have a
6 7
coolable volume there,
that might be worthwhile. Yes. Right now, it is not
JOHN MONAGER: being cooled, though.
9 1 11 12 13 14 15 1 1 1 19 20 2 22 23 24 2 can't know.
But,
MALE progress?
PARTICIPANT:
Are
there
fires
in

I mean --
No confirmation. say anything.
They didn't
MALE
PARTICIPANT:
You
know,
we
don't
JOHN MONAGER: remove the roof
Yes, 2.
they
also
said
they think
on Unit
They don't
they can get over there with a helicopter or anything

because the rad --
MALE
PARTICIPANT:
This
is
the
Headquarters Ops Officer. Mr. conference bridge. Mr. Borchardt, are you there, sir? Hey, Bill? Borchardt is coming up on the
MALE PARTICIPANT:
NEAL R.GROSS
248 BILL BORCHARDT: 2 3 MALE PARTICIPANT: This is Hey, Bill Borchardt. Bill, we're in the
middle of a call with John Monager and Chuck. we help you?
How can
5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 anything to see development John with Chairman. update, if
BILL BORCHARDT:
We're just here with the
We're just looking for another last-minute there's been any recent developments. MALE is PARTICIPANT: we're that Well, the most with recent and
what
discussing they just
Chuck
Monager. Toshiba
That's and METI
had a they
meeting finally
officials,
and
identified them
potential with
equipment their
needs
that would help spent-fuel pool
contend
degraded
conditions. And so, we're going to get rolling on that what could be arranged back through the
military in that don't they
terms of delivering some of this equipment would be needing the spent-fuel to cool pool the fuel. 4 is They as
think
for
Unit
degraded as we thought. BILL BORCHARDT: from the U.S. Now they haven't accepted actively engaged in
They're
the discussions and interested? MALE PARTICIPANT: BILL BORCHARDT: Right. Okay.
NEAL R.GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.,N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701
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249 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MALE PARTICIPANT: So, I think, as a
minimum, we can do what we need to do to see if line this up. BILL BORCHARDT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Right. And, then, it
we can
will be
up to them to decide,
are they going to ask for it? Yes. And they really
MALE PARTICIPANT: talked about needing it weekend. MALE PARTICIPANT: up.
to be up and running by this
Right.
Well,
that
gives us a day to queue it Anything else? JOHN MONAGER:
guess
somewhat
halfway
decent good news on the RTS on the reactor on all four units. They said, for the past 48 hours, they have
continued to inject,
and they're injecting through the a little bit
low-pressure core spray system, which is better you're than a LPSI. down Low-pressure from the top.
core So,
spraying, LPSI, if
spraying
you're only partial-height,
you're worried,
you know,
you're relying upon steam cooling. core news. Also -MALE PARTICIPANT: NEAL R.GROSS For spray is better than that.
Your low-pressure So, that was good
all
four
units,
(202)234-4433 L T q
250 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20
John? JOHN MONAGER: units, yes. MALE PARTICIPANT: gagged open, ensuring with They had the SRVs not They told us for all four
but the SRVs are wide open and they are air pressure the SRVs stay open, and
they keep pressure less than .1 megapascal within the primary system. Another for the reactor, for thing, I guess the success path 2,
the spent-fuel
pool
on Unit
they just right now have a small blowout panel They don't believe that hole is So, forth on ways we went to big enough.
hole.
back and
forth and back and a hole in the
deliberately
make
reactor building. BILL BORCHARDT: again. This is Bill. I'm sorry to interrupt
Mike, we got cut off. MALE PARTICIPANT:

BILL BORCHARDT:
We're still
Yes.
here.
-you
Can you just
21 22 23 24 2
were telling me about the assessment of Unit 4. MALE PARTICIPANT: fuel pool does not appear to Yes, be the Unit 4 spentas degraded it may still the need as we be to
thought earlier this morning. in a coolable configuration.
And so, And,
thus,
NEAL R. GROSS
251
1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 IC 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 2 22 23 2 25
get water into that fuel pool. BILL BORCHARDT: MALE that they are Okay. John use was describing core
PARTICIPANT: continuing to
low-pressure
spray to cool all four units. BILL BORCHARDT: on all four units? MALE PARTICIPANT: BILL BORCHARDT: MALE PARTICIPANT: BILL BORCHARDT: is that the wall was still not Right. For the reactor? Yes. And what you were saying damaged like we thought in Low-pressure core spray
before, the No.
but there's 4 pool?
loss of water
inventory
Would that be right? It sounds like from the
MALE PARTICIPANT: steam and all, et cetera. out,
Now walls have been knocked they're not the walls of
but they're telling us
the spent-fuel pool. BILL BORCHARDT: MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE one idea. PARTICIPANT: So, we Okay. So, it's a thick -We had
(Inaudible). (inaudible,
(Inaudible).
possibly
"should think about tomorrow?") MALE PARTICIPANT: Is there any other
high-level update for Bill and the Chairman, John? NEALR. GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE, N.W.
252 JOHN interesting, 3 4 5 6 7 bulldozers they MONAGER: talk about One thing that in was the
the rad
fields
vicinity and being able to do work. these measurements are very high,
You know, some of and they have et
bulldozers cetera.
going through and cleaning up pathways,
They talked about the dose rates once the go through decreasing significantly, by
maybe 70 percent or so. 1 1 12 13 1 1 16 1 18 19 20 21 22 23 2 25 boiled down. reactor have to think, what is
And given the rad field, you causing that? if you rip apart your contamination, to believe in the
You know, of course, building, But you it you've got
residual
et cetera. that what
really out
would there
lead me is
have
fuel
environment. And there you had the spent-fuel pool that You had a zirc/water reaction. You
built up this steam. of the upper part of
You know, the
a certain percentage pool is bare.
spent-fuel
They had this explosion, out in the yard?
and who knows what got blown
BILL BORCHARDT: MALE PARTICIPANT:
Okay. They reported the rad
field was 20 to 30 rems. MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes.
NEALR. GROSS
253 MALE PARTICIPANT: 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 1 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 2 2 permission MALE to put PARTICIPANT: it on their Now we don't We have think equipment the vast. miles TEPCO So, away titled in issues were MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Was that 20 to 30 R? Twenty to 30 R. Thank you. Yes. Some of the
frustrating
that they were dealing with. maybe it truck that was the Air Force or they did not take
For example, previously, so, delivered a fire
advantage of. They have issues with vehicles that have to be not being
their country
escorted by
the police department. equipment because kinds of it in, and they
We talked about getting this said they couldn't take it
would have to be escorted and there's all restrictions on imports jazz, and all this, on
imports and all ridiculous. So, there, site,
that kind of
which was sort of
we talked about, to have which it
if
you could get the directly actually you know, going onto quite 40-50
airlifted said is
they
the notion of having it, and driving it down isn't
to work
site yet.
NEAL R.GROSS
(202) 234-4433
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254 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 try to controversy. MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes. you know, to go? MALE PARTICIPANT: will cause a huge Yes. But the airlift, the Defense we're going to get that in it both sides, the morning. But we have
that will be good. So, airlift is the way
MALE PARTICIPANT:
issue with
Department. MALE Japanese craft. MALE PARTICIPANT: They could fly it PARTICIPANT: Yes, in. They also want but they have
Yes.
our people to install the equipment and operate it. MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes, that will be a
I think that's pretty much it. MALE anything else? BILL BORCHARDT: repeat back what No. you I think, were let me just me. we still reactor has been lost high but So PARTICIPANT: Bill, do you need
telling
they're injecting water into all the cores. believe cores. there's The fuel damage in all three
spent-fuel
inventory on Unit 4 I mean There's release from
significantly significant radiation
compromised. amount of water.
we've been that,
levels
in
obvious
NEAL R. GROSS
255 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 1 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 because that we don't think anymore that the wall, pool, the has is
structural been
integrity wall of the spent-fuel compromised. the pool? So, the
severely
potential
solely to refill
MALE PARTICIPANT: BILL BORCHARDT:
That's correct. Okay. in Now what the area. I got And
lost on was they've had bulldozers after the bulldozers
went through to clear
the path,
the rad levels went down? MALE the PARTICIPANT: bulldozers pushed Significantly away all down the
contamination or all the fuel. BILL BORCHARDT: MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: here to there. BILL BORCHARDT: Right. That's just Okay. All right.
They just moved it. They just moved it from
confirming that there's been a significant release and a lot of (inaudible, possibly "flight out") in the
immediate area? MALE PARTICIPANT: BILL BORCHARDT: MALE Right. Okay. I've got it. When we said low-
PARTICIPANT: it's It's
pressure core spray, core spray system.
not the normal low-pressure just going through the core
NEAL R.GROSS
(202) 234-4433
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256 spray header that's taking it 2 3 that. Wait it, I lost it. a minute. I had one other -darn BILL BORCHAARDT: in -Yes, I understand
Yes.
4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 1 19 2 21 22 23 24 25 different changed with latest
I had a question. But, Bill, no even though to the
MALE PARTICIPANT: information,
there's
change
recommendations that we talked
that we've made, about earlier
the four key points morning that the
this
Chairman was on that call for? MALE PARTICIPANT: I would We not were say all at have
locations.
things
significant
enough
to change
any conclusions
you guys had. BILL BORCHARDT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Okay. Good. even though they
You know,
they said they've had core coolant for 48 hours, have no way to verify Mav Regardless, the thing's almost dry. So, you know, it.
there may be some nuances. So, Okay. no change, Bill. Thank
MALE PARTICIPANT: BILL BORCHARDT: you very much. If there is
All right.
anything --
I'm sorry?
NEAL R. GROSS
(202) 234-4433
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257 1 2 3 4 question. (inaudible, 6 7 MALE something for you. CHARLIE We're MILLER: getting Bill, third-hand I've got a PARTICIPANT: Bill, Charlie has
information is with
possibly "that Eliot
(phonetic)")
you and the Chairman. BILL BORCHARDT: CHARLIE MILLER: Not right now, no. We're getting requests
9 1
back from Public Affairs that the Chairman wants us to reduce the data (inaudible, possibly "runs") for the
modeling that we're getting.. 12 18 13 14 15 on that? BILL BORCHARDT: I'll
Have you heard anything
haven't
really
been
paying attention to that.
have to call you back. I don't want to burden
CHARLIE MILLER:
16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
him going into the hearing, but I would advise that we talk to him first before we make any such commitment
as to exactly what was what. BILL BORCHARDT: CHARLIE MILLER: on that, okay? BILL BORCHARDT: CHARLIE MILLER: you, Bill. BILL BORCHARDT: All right. Yes, I think so. Okay, thank Okay. So, we're going to hold
All right.
NEAL R.GROSS
www.nealrgross-corn
258 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 11 12 13 14 1 16 17 18 19 2 21 22 23 2 2 pelletized first, this They with them is have meeting JOHN MONAGER: with them tomorrow. So, we have a So, 10:00 a.m.
our hope is
we can
get some of these answers hours, so we can go back.
within the next eight-nine But if they agree to it,
are we committing? MALE PARTICIPANT: John. Well, we're going to
to work that,
We'll do our best
to line
things up back here. But John's not dropping off yet. It's
just Bill and the Chairman dropping off. JOHN MONAGER: Okay. So, the next meeting
in eight hours. MALE PARTICIPANT:
Okay? Did you discuss any
need for boron, John? JOHN MONAGER: they were like, well, system, were shouldn't we They We if put talked about it. At
we're going to design the (inaudible) though, in? they
like yes.
didn't
say,
needed boron. We lead. talked about lead said and shielding and
And they
they built
blankets
with tungsten or something like that. MALE refueling outage. MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes. PARTICIPANT: Yes, for their
NEAL R.GROSS
259 MALE PARTICIPANT: 2 They have that available. MALE E two other things through you, MIKE WEBER: 6 7 came Center? MIKE WEBER: 10 1i 12 13 14 19 15 16 17 nation. MALE PARTICIPANT: shared some stuff. No, c came by and No. MALE in. Sure, Mike? sure. So, the that, other in the day, Ops PARTICIPANT: How about, can I run And they can use that.
PARTICIPANT: Do you
remember
8 13
MALE PARTICIPANT: MIKE WEBER: Oh, I thought you meant the
iR
2[ 23
NEAL H. URO.
(202) 234-4433
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2 3
6 7 8 9
12 1 12
13
1 1 1 19 2 21 22 23 2 25 would help going to
MALE PARTICIPANT: bring and it's up in is I know
The other we're best
thing I was in but
interested interest,
helping, it's
everyone's
unclear with regard to,
you know,
the culture or
the acceptability of requiring assistance from another nation or country. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE these PARTICIPANT: discussions or Right, I'm right. wondering if if it we
negotiations
said, you know, we could provide this equipment and we
NEAL R.GROSS
261 1 2 3 here. MALE PARTICIPANT: can do that or not. Yes, I'm not sure if but -we would not publicize that we are doing all this. MALE PARTICIPANT: We can work that back
We didn't mention it, Yes. -you know,
MALE PARTICIPANT:
MALE PARTICIPANT:
just don't
go issuing a ton of press releases, 9 1 11 12 13 14 i 1 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 with and Casselberg. Related to boron, we understand what is MALE PARTICIPANT:
stuff like that. Yes, yes. We
the sensitivity.
We'll have to figure out
feasible. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Right. Okay. Anything else?
That's it. I think that's

--
Rick's got a question. RICK CASSELBERG (phonetic): John, Rick
had a
conversation
the INPO executives they indicated that
a couple of they received
hours ago now, from multiple
channels --
and they can't actually find the source of that Japan was looking for boron. And
the request --
they located a stash at Diablo Canyon. And we and the Reactor Safety Team are
NEAL R.GROSS
262 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 trying to work we have something. already If, in fact, Japan
requests,
found a military transport We need to know what form where they need it for how they're
that can get it they need it, delivered,
to them.
how much they need, they have
and do
a plan
going to get it So,
to the site? it's all related to, you know, what
else do you need? 9 10 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2J list. originator. MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes. It must be a wish list. JOHN MONAGER: Right. So, now there's also a
RICK CASSELBERG:
I haven't looked through it. either. And I
I'm not sure it
Tim has,
believe you guys might have a page and a half of
already discussed it a list
with Chuck,
of requests to the U.S. MALE PARTICIPANT:
Government. Yes. We weren't sure.
what the source of that list RICK CASSELBERG: MALE
was,
either.
Okay. It didn't have an
PARTICIPANT:
NEAL R.GROSS
263
I
2 3 4 this stuff
MALE PARTICIPANT: Now still our isn't requests
Yes. or
Okay. our discussions It's on
with Toshiba yet.
with
the Government.
9
1
11
12 13 here.
Okay.
Thank you. back
I think that's it
14
15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 maybe start that Charlie.
CHARLIE MILLER:
All right,
John.
This is
Have you got anything else of us back here of any nature? JOHN MONAGER: moving we're stuff aware in of Just let us just we let
that you need
know, us be
if know, able
you so to
closer, it, so
might
communicate that. CHARLIE MILLER: FEMALE thinking of All right. And Okay. we'll work on I
PARTICIPANT: some
communication for example,
strategies. "We won't
know that rather than,
saying,
NEAL R. GROSS
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264 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 1 16 17 18 19 2C 21 22 23 24 25 26
(202) 234-4433
publish complete
it,"
maybe for
saying
like, it
"We'll and
give we're on
you just that.
credit or
requesting But
augmenting," So, we'll
whatever. it
we'll
work
think about
and come up with
something
for someone to consider. MALE PARTICIPANT: that topic with them. Well, we didn't raise why
We were
just
wondering
they're so slow or reluctant or hesitate. FEMALE PARTICIPANT: Yes, but I think
you're probably right. MALE PARTICIPANT: FEMALE some things. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: CHARLIE MILLER: MALE PARTICIPANT: very much for being there. MALE there. PARTICIPANT: Thank you for being Okay. All right. All right. Well, thank you, guys, Yes. Okay. But we'll work on
PARTICIPANT:
Talk to you soon. JOHN MONAGER: We're going to hang up now
then. CHARLIE MILLER: JOHN guys. Bye-bye. NEAL R. GROSS

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.realrgross.com
Okay. All
Thanks, right.
John. Thank you,
MONAGER:
265 (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) 2 3 4 MALE PARTICIPANT: JOHN MONAGER: we forgot to mention, or 6 7 8 9 1 11 12 13 1 1 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 NEAL R.GROSS
John? Mike?
Hello, Hey,
John. one thing you guys could you're
Hey,
and we're wondering if even Security Info
the
RST or maybe
folks
some brainstorming. going to be shooting the tops or
For the spent-fuel pools, the water sides of in these
fire sprays that's been
through
everything
blown apart.
And that's fine for Units 1, 3, MALE PARTICIPANT: Right. have
and 4.
But what do you a wall that's
do
with
Unit
2,
where
you
(inaudible)? JOHN MONAGER: blowup panel that's Yes. And they have a small open, but they said
partially
that's not going to cut it. So,
That won't be sufficient. you know, how do we
the question is,
open up that building? get coolant in. Plus,
We want the building open to you want the building open to
purge any hydrogen. we floated ideas, which didn't go over too well, with even such things as a rocket-propelled You know, we
grenade up there to just shoot through. talked about that.
The other thing we talked about is
roofing
266
1 MALE PARTICIPANT: A helicopter with a
2
3
4
ball on it
or something?
JOHN MONAGER:
you
Yes,
know,
helicopter
with
possibly
concentrated
weight,
(inaudible,
5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
"buff them through"). MALE PARTICIPANT: that on this wall. it offline. JOHN MONAGER: Okay. All right. What size hole do you Yes. Hey, let's not do
I think we've got it.
We'll work
MALE PARTICIPANT: want? JOHN MONAGER: meters, a decent hole.
I don't know,
4 meters by 4
A decent hole. Okay. they're going to meters-plus away.
MALE PARTICIPANT: JOHN MONAGER: be shooting water,
You know, 100
you know,
Wind's going to be all over the place. MALE PARTICIPANT: JOHN MONAGER: Yes.
All right. Okay. you know, with the rad
MALE PARTICIPANT: JOHN MONAGER: fields, et cetera, And,
they can't get people up there. Okay. Understood. the thoughts you know,
MALE PARTICIPANT: JOHN MONAGER: was, but the booms
Yes,
one of
won't go high enough, NEAL R.GROSS,
(202) 234-4433
www.nealrgross-com
267 1 2 3 these big forklifts with the big two prongs. on in it and pierce it, you know, piercing it Just go
and ripping
apart. You know, their concern with all these
5 6 7
ideas was the ability of the plant. gone through so much that they're
The plants have worried about
impact. MALE PARTICIPANT: And you've got a
9 1 1 1 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2
hydrogen risk environment potentially? JOHN MONAGER: Potentially, yes. Yes. Okay. You know, they're worse
MALE PARTICIPANT: JOHN MONAGER: worried about impact
Okay.
taking down the structure
than we would want. MALE PARTICIPANT: you're going through is Yes, and the material
a metal corrugated wall? It varies. like You know, in
JOHN MONAGER: the U.S. I they're, mean it's I call metal
them
super-aluminum but I think
siding.
corrugated,
over here it's severe strong
tougher because of the typhoons and the But metal within thing, the but U.S., it's a can
environment. corrugated
things
definitely punch through it. MALE PARTICIPANT: JOHN MONAGER: Okay. So, it's stronger over
NEAL R. GROSS
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701
.ww.nealrgross.com
268 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 here, but it can still be punched through. Okay.
MALE PARTICIPANT:
JOHN MALE JOHN
MONAGER:
Good. We'll give you a call. Thanks.
PARTICIPANT: MONAGER:
All right.
Thank you.
Bye-bye. Bye-bye.
MALE PARTICIPANT:
NEAL R.GROSS
269
(CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) MALE PARTICIPANT: Josh coming up. I don't hear him. this is Josh. Josh.
3
4
MIKE WEBER: JOSH BATKIN: MIKE WEBER:
Josh? Hey, Hey,
6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 OPA.
JOSH BATKIN: MIKE WEBER: JOSH BATKIN: MIKE WEBER: JOSH BATKIN:
Who's that, Webber? Webber. Hello, Hi. Two points for you and for sir.
MIKE WEBER: JOSH BATKIN:
Okay. There has been some
confusion about whether or not,
when we do our press
release following the White House press release, which will be issued shortly, whether or not we also attach have used to come to those
17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
the
raw
data
that
we
conclusions. MIKE WEBER: JOSH clear, the BATKIN: Right. And from just the is yes. to be crystalas
directions
Chairman,
coordinated with his counterpart, MIKE WEBER: JOSH BATKIN: Okay.
So, we will release that raw assuming we can do
data when that press release goes, NEAL R. GROSS.
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270 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 call. CHARLIE MILLER: JOSH BATKIN: MIKE other agencies. JOSH BATKIN: MIKE WEBER: Correct, All right. correct. What we discussed WEBER: It's not our purview. we need discussing. it see simultaneously. the White If it is not ready right after we then is. trying to get that we do a quick
House
release,
supplemental release as soon as it MIKE WEBER: We're
ready right now, Josh. JOSH BATKIN: And, then, Okay. Great. Thank you. there were
the other point is
four points that have been sent around today. MIKE WEBER: JOSH BATKIN: Yes. Point No. 4, we are 4. not
The NRC is MIKE WEBER: JOSH BATKIN:
not discussion Point No. Okay. Publicly or otherwise.
So, not
to make
sure all 4.
of our messaging does
include Point No.
MIKE WEBER: JOSH BATKIN: MIKE WEBER:
Okay. Make sense? Makes sense. It's not our
Sorry, say that again? It's not our call. It's
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271 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 literally so. The and what it paragraph in with respect to Point 1 is JOSH BATKIN: MIKE WEBER: front of -Yes? -the need to provide like a results to provide
those model
some context to it. JOSH BATKIN: MIKE WEBER: JOSH BATKIN: Sure. Okay. It should explain what it Absolutely. Because there could is Absolutely.
means or how we used it. MIKE WEBER: Right.
be worse projections more of a release,
if a
we revised those runs higher source-term,
to show
different all that,
meteorological but
--
conditions.
You understand
JOSH BATKIN: MIKE WEBER: here among our technical blow make it out of
Right. -the sense I'm getting back you know, don't to the
experts is, either. a firm
proportion, we do
And we need basis for
certain
that
have
recommendations But
that we're providing. we think we can write up that
paragraph that will provide that context. JOSH BATKIN: Okay. Great. I mean that
needs to be ready in White House release
the next 10 minutes or I believe is getting
NEAL R, GROSS
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ready to go soon.
2 3 MIKE WEBER: JOSH BATKIN: Okay. Okay. We're working it. Great. Any other
developments we need to talk to the Chairman or Bill 5 6 7 8 9 1 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 two? JOSH BATKIN: or something from earlier? MIKE WEBER: It was the one we discussed Within the last hour or two earlier call right now? MIKE that WEBER: You are aware from the for
Bill was on about
the request
assistance from the Japanese? JOSH BATKIN: You're aware of the request Bill?
for assistance from the Japanese, BILL BORCHARDT:
Within the last hour or
with him when John Monager was on the phone. JOSH BATKIN: John Monager was -yes, The one they discussed when he's aware. And so, we haven't formally And
18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
MIKE WEBER: received that,
but we're acting as though we may.
so, we're trying to line up the equipment necessary to support that. JOSH received, BATKIN: Okay. Okay. Have Okay. not formally
but anticipating. MIKE WEBER:
Okay?
NEAL R.GROSS
273 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1 1 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 JOSH BATKIN: MIKE WEBER: JOSH BATKIN: MIKE WEBER: JOSH BATKIN: MIKE WEBER: Okay. Thanks. Thank you. All righty. Josh out. Bye-bye. Thank you. Got it.
NEALR. GROSS
274 (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) 2 3 4 MIKE WEBER: Hi. Mike Webber. Hey, Mike. help. I I want to
MALE PARTICIPANT:
talk and offer you some technical guys are a highly-skilled technical
know you but
organization,
I didn't know if the box. And,
you want some folks to think out of you know, we kind of worked on the
8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2C 21 22 23
24
Three-Mile Island thing, and we still of brains here. And I wanted
have those kinds you wanted
to know if
anybody like that in your Ops Center. MIKE WEBER: Sure. You're talking about
sending over some NRR staff? MALE PARTICIPANT: MIKE WEBER: MALE thinking is on a Sure. Yes. we'd welcome them. Okay. What I'm maybe
PARTICIPANT:
one or two folks from Headquarters, basis, and, then,
rotational
maybe some of our
lab folks. we've been thinking through this thing and have some options. a lot different about, I'll bet you they're not a hell of
than what you guys have been talking
but we ought to talk through it. I don't know if you've seen this, but the
out
--
who
are
they?
--
the TEPCO
folks have reached
25
directly to DOE and NNSA because of a personal contact
NEAL R.GROSS
275 saying, 2 3 guys. MIKE WEBER: Okay. "If you guys have any ideas, I've asked them to let us know." that with you
share
1 1 1 12 13
MIKE
WEBER: that with
Yes, folks
think
our
team
in
20
Tokyo is
doing
from METI and,
also,
from Toshiba.
22
23
MALE PARTICIPANT: we'll do is I will figure
Okay. out who
Good. the
So, heck
what we're
24 25
sending you in
the short-term. Okay.
MIKE WEBER:
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276 1 2 3 MALE PARTICIPANT: their way to see you, guys will let them in I'll And once they head on so you
give you a heads-up,
the building. Okay. Where are you, by the
MIKE WEBER:
MALE PARTICIPANT: 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 2 2 Billings. MALE PARTICIPANT: BRIAN: Brian? BRIAN: Call up way?
What floor are you on up there,
so they know how
to find you? MIKE WEBER: 2 White Flint. MALE PARTICIPANT: Okay. When they get We're on the fourth floor of
there, who should they ask for? MIKE WEBER: Who do you want them to see,
and
ask
for
Sally
Sally Billings?
That's right. Okay. would imagine they'll
MALE PARTICIPANT: MIKE WEBER: And I
be part of our Reactor Safety Team here. MALE PARTICIPANT: MIKE WEBER: Okay. that group is still
Because
brainstorming on what could be done to cool the pools and, also, cool the reactors. MALE PARTICIPANT: Okay. And you guys are
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277 1 2 3 4 going 24/7, right? MIKE WEBER: MALE That is correct. All right. We will
PARTICIPANT:
start sending somebody up there. MIKE WEBER: Okay. Great. Thank you.
6 7
MALE PARTICIPANT: MIKE WEBER:
Thank you, Yes.
Steve. Bye-bye.
8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
Bye-bye.
NEAL R.GROSS
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1
(CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) MALE PARTICIPANT: This is the
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 bridges.
Headquarters Ops Officer. Hey, Mike, we're trying to Cathy Haney.
We have the other three. MIKE WEBER: MALE We're still
Do you want this connected? Yes. I'll connect the
PARTICIPANT:
waiting on Cathy Haney,
but I'll
put the other ones up on the bridge. MIKE WEBER: Okay. That's good. Thank you.
MALE PARTICIPANT: MIKE WEBER: 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Mike. Headquarters and Eric? MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: (Pause.) MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE
Thank you. Hello. Mike, Brian,
PARTICIPANT:
Stand by, please. Okay.
Okay.
This
is
the
Ops Officer.
The persons
requested are
on your bridge. MIKE WEBER: CATHY HANEY: BRIAN: Hi, Hi. Hi, Mike. This is Mike. Brian. Cathy, Br ian, Eric, and Mi ke Weber.
MALE PARTICIPANT:
NEAL R.GROSS
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 1 12 13 14 15 1 17 1 1 2 2 2 23 2 2 interest briefly. ERIC: JACK: ERIC: Yes, Eric, Thanks, Eric is this is Jack. on the line. Jack. I'm here.
MIKE WEBER: You know,
I just wanted to speak to you about to testify
the Chairman is
before the House Committee, press release -saying we no that
and we're going out with a we do not, with or that we
recommend recommended U.S.
longer
concur
the Japanese that
protective
action,
and we
recommend
citizens evacuate within 50 miles of the affected
nuclear power plant. That among is our likely to trigger a lot of and
congressional
committees
members for more information, get in the Chairman's
more than what they will in the hearing, et
testimony
cetera. a group
Consequently, such as
Bill asked that we put together senior managers, on what is that the
yourselves,
could be prepared
to get up-to-speed the U.S.
current conditions and what is from the NRC's perspective. in communicating
doing about it
So that you can be our with staff from the
ambassadors Members,
from the committees, So, I only ask Hopefully,
on what we're doing. that you give be that here some the
consideration.
you'll
remainder of the week,
when the priority needs will be
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280
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 in providing those kind of briefings. We'll make arrangements work with the staff back here to
to bring you up-to-speed,
equip you
with the tools that you need to do the communication, allow you to ask questions, et cetera, and, then, make
sure you're ready to go for those briefings tomorrow. Questions? BRIAN: No. Comments? That's fine. you know,
starting
1C
1i 1 13 1 1 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 doing is
I got a call -with the Chairman. MIKE WEBER: BRIAN: Chairman wanted code we have -MIKE WEBER: BRIAN: -She
Jennifer is
down
Right. called me and said that which is the
to MACCS,
the dose computer
Right. MACCS calculations done looking And so, to we've you
at an exclusion zone beyond 50 miles. got know. MIKE WEBER: So, Sandia all cranking on those,
just
let
this would be a
large-
scale release that would deposit contamination beyond 50 miles? BRIAN: Yes. Well, I mean, what we're
she says he thinks the exclusions, NEAL R. GROSS

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281 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 1 12 13 14 15 16 this is assumptions chance -chance look for an exclusion zone beyond 50 miles. I we don't have a lot of details I of what had a
should
be making.
haven't
you know,
she had to go, terms
and I haven't had a of what kind of a
to talk
to Sandia in
source-term they're assuming. MIKE WEBER: Brian, I would connect up
with PMP because they can share with you and research the current assumptions that we're making for the
calculations. BRIAN: Yes, okay. Okay. The other thing, press release Brian -we just I'll do that.
MIKE WEBER:
CHARLIE MILLER: Charlie -in
this
mentioned,
the Chairman directed us to attach the data So, we've got
that was used to support that decision. RASCAL runs out

--
17
1i 19 2C 21 22 23 24 25
CATHY HANEY: When I the was in
Charlie,
that's consistent. and we were in with the
there on Monday night, about not
same
position
agreeing
Japanese,
and going out with a press release -CHARLIE MILLER: CATHY HANEY: -Yes. that's one of the things
that was -CHARLIE MILLER: (Inaudible) cleared the
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282 i 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 for. MIKE WEBER: All right. heads-up that Okay? ERIC: No problem. That's what we're here from here. that, question. So, you've got a bunch of material to be spokesmen stakeholders. if that's we get White House. release, And so, it's going out with the press
just so you know that. CATHY HANEY: Yes, yes.
CHARLIE MILLER: ERIC: Mike?
Okay.
MIKE WEBER: ERIC: Mike,
Go ahead. this is Eric. I've got a
assembled and you want us
questions from congressional come to the Ops Center
Should we information?
to pick up that
How do you want to handle the logistics? MIKE WEBER: We'll work out the logistics
We don't need to take your time now to do work with your staff to make those
but we'll
arrangements. ERIC: Terrific. Thank you.
MIKE WEBER:
I just wanted to give you the
that we may be calling upon you to provide of support over the next several days.
kind
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283 1 2 3 4 on the mean, line, BRIAN: Okay. Hey, while I've got you well, both of you? I
MALE PARTICIPANT: can I talk with,
I'm sorry, Charlie and Mike. CHARLIE MILLER: MALE PARTICIPANT: Okay. The others can stay on your interest.
5
6 7 8 9 or not,
depending on what is Charlie? CHARLIE MILLER: MALE PARTICIPANT:
Yes,
sir. you asked me I have
I.
11 12 13 14 i 16 17 18 19 2 21 22 23 24 2
You know,
to touch base with the RAs about the RSLOs. done that. I talked to all four RAs. Mike, you might be interested in
knowing
that I gave them a heads-up on the current situation, the gravity, -
r
to themselves. we talked about
U
1 asked them
to please keep it And
the
challenges
that
the Regions are facing with regard to communications. We have sent them a copy of the Chairman's Q&As he went down to the Hill with. to work our share points side. possibly that, "Nancy" or "an NCS") that
And we're continuing I've put (inaudible, charge of so that we
as manager in
and we're going to add more staff,
can expedite communications.
And we think that that's
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284 I 2 3 4 5 6 7 a 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 working interested with Scott. support Okay? MALE PARTICIPANT: So, A in. Yes, and I had talked email. going right? to be a huge challenge going forward. All
But I did that. Oh, yes, and Charlie, I also sent an
I talked with Josie Piccone. (phonetic),
I sent an email
to her and Rosetta
also sending them the
Chairman's Q&As and to let them know that I've touched based with the Regional Administrators. CHARLIE MILLER: from FSME on that, Great. just work So, if you need Scott.
through
that's one item. second item, we, Mike, NRR, you might be
You know,
took the lead for
scheduling this Commission meeting next week. MIKE WEBER: MALE Right. All right. We
PARTICIPANT:
assembled a scheduling note. shortly via email. And on our I'm sure
You'll be receiving it
that
we're over
going
to
be but
talking points
the weekend,
we've got you at the table. you, table cover. Marty with Virgilio, basic Eliot,
I've got Bill Borchardt, and me sitting we're at the to
topic
areas
that
going
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285 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R.GROSS

MIKE WEBER:
What day are we doing this? Well, I was hoping it My staff for Monday. have to work it says
MALE PARTICIPANT:
was going to be Tuesday or Wednesday. that the Commission is pushing for it Yes, we'll too, Yes,
MIKE WEBER:
with staffing the Ops Center, MALE PARTICIPANT: MIKE WEBER: MALE it. MIKE WEBER: Okay.
right? sir. out.
But we'll work it Okay.
PARTICIPANT:
We're working
All right.
Thank you. Very good. That's all
MALE PARTICIPANT: I've got. MIKE WEBER:
We'll let you go. Thank you. Thank you, Eric.
MALE PARTICIPANT: CHARLIE MILLER: MIKE WEBER: ERIC:
Thank you. Bye.
All right.
MIKE WEBER:
Bye-bye.
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286
1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 1i 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Amy Powell. huge favor,
(CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) JOSH BATKIN: Hi. This is Josh. Josh. ask a quick, Hello.
MALE PARTICIPANT: JOSH BATKIN: please? MALE PARTICIPANT: JOSH BATKIN: Hi.
Go ahead, Could I
Sure.
Can you please email Rebecca summary of
Schmidt and Amy Powell with a very brief the PEGs as well reached? It
as the levels at which the PEGs are It does need
does not need to be pretty.
to be very quick. MALE PARTICIPANT: JOSH BATKIN: Okay.
Thank you. Right. We've got it.
MALE PARTICIPANT: JOSH BATKIN: Okay.
Thanks. Becky, Josh, and Eliot.
MALE PARTICIPANT:
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287 (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) 2 3 4 MIKE WEBER: JOHN MONAGER: Hi, John. Hi, Mike. How you doing,
sir?
MIKE WEBER: JOHN MONAGER: Okay. Good, How are you? good, good. It's
7 8 9 12 1 1 13 1 1 18 17 18 going on. the morning.
MIKE WEBER: two o'clock in
Are you getting rest?
the morning over there. Yes, it is two o'clock in
JOHN MONAGER:
So, It's
it's
interesting,
just
everything
actually quite busy.
2
21.
22 23 24 25
1 2 3 4
6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 or not what, it's any MALE PARTICIPANT: The status of whether or
moving this way or can it updates you can have for
be moved, the
Ambassador
would be good. MALE PARTICIPANT: NEAL R.GROSS

Are you talking about
(202) 234-4433
289 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 hurt if he's guys' having the call that takes place at 0800 Washington time? MALE PARTICIPANT: JOHN MONAGER: it here I'm not sure -0800 because which is your
Probably not
tomorrow morning,
tomorrow night. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: JOHN MONAGER: Yes. Okay. So, this sounds like
something within just maybe the -MALE PARTICIPANT:

JOHN MONAGER: --
State Department?
the Department of State
or maybe multiple departments, isn't part of. So, good potential you know, it
et cetera,
that the NRC
just seems that there is I'm not sure exactly
for a disconnect.
who we reach out to within the Department of Defense, et cetera, and it probably goes And if to a list of
individuals who are working it. this request here, of people, it and will
they send out to different parties
probably go
groups
you'll
have multiple
chasing the same thing. MALE that PARTICIPANT: support that is lines Yes. up in Well, it can't the for
advance
diplomatic channel
going to be necessary right?
the request that actually come in,
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290 1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 11 12 13 14 15
16 17 Joe -he
JOHN MONAGER: MALE
Okay.
Yes. What we're doing is
PARTICIPANT:
preparing for receipt of the request. JOHN MONAGER: Right. So that we're able to
MALE PARTICIPANT: respond promptly, should it JOHN MONAGER: thought is, federal too,
be made. Right. Well, I think the
I'm not sure how much will the other get back "No, to you and we don't," say, "Yes, we
agencies
have this equipment," it
or "Yes,
we have
and we think we can get it MALE PARTICIPANT:
out there in That's
22 hours." what they're
working on right now, John. JOHN MONAGER: have that kind of details? I did see Joe Williams
put together a hand -I guess it was which
So,
you think that you'll
schematic,
18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
actually equipment, reading it
looked et off
pretty
good, And I
and think but it
the it's
list --
of well,
cetera.
the BlackBerry --
looks pretty
much like what we described. MALE PARTICIPANT: Well, that's good
because that's what we gave him. JOHN MONAGER: guys' Yes. So, where does your
request for assistance go to? NEAL R. GROSS

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291 1 2 3 4 Charlie. 6 7 8 9 1 1 1 13 1 15 1 17 18 19 2 21 22 23 24 2 U.S. to the hopefully -Naval Reactors called and they're going to be sending somebody to come over and sit 24/7. So, with the RST through channels, the MALE PARTICIPANT: well, We're working through all it back
military,
different
but that's the primary channel. CHARLIE MILLER: Hey, John, this is
that will give us somebody embedded here. JOHN MONAGER: That would be good. Yes, there was a desire out-of-the-box our Japanese
MALE PARTICIPANT: to participate thinking colleagues. JOHN MONAGER: you know, Yes. to with us in
doing some to
provide
assistance
I mean it
would also, of little
we've had a couple
mixed thoughts on the information out there between us and Naval Reactors, be good. MALE PARTICIPANT: same conclusion. So, Yes, we I think they came appreciate their and having everyone together would
support and welcome their cooperation. JOHN MONAGER: Japan Forces here -MALE PARTICIPANT: JOHN MONAGER: -Yes? wanting to know what the Now we also got a call from
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292 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 2 23 2 2 if status of the units and the spent-fuel pools, gave that, and we And there come
and, essentially, how could they help. you know, et there is cetera; this call out maybe it would
I mentioned, for the
equipment, et cetera.
their way,
But these two guys, Cory Wright (phonetic) and Alex Robinson (phonetic), they want to stop by
maybe once a day or so,
fly up and visit, just to see
how the military, the U.S. military on the islands out here could provide more assistance. MALE PARTICIPANT: use your contacts. (phonetic). that, if AID So, can Yes, I would, I mean,
You're there as part of the DART that's be an interagency to bear to initiative make the that
brought
arrangements
to transport some of these things,
would also be beneficial. JOHN MONAGER: MALE Right. You have the diagram
PARTICIPANT:
now that We drew up. JOHN MONAGER: Yes. it So, you guys are fine through other routes
we just continue to pass
then? MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Oh, absolutely. The Ambassador, he kind
of wanted to wait before he called the Prime Minister NEAL R.GROSS

293 1 2 3 to know if, yes, we do have some of that equipment
here or if get it all,
we had a status as to whether or not we can or what. MALE PARTICIPANT: Now that we don't know
5 6 7
yet. MALE morning, is PARTICIPANT: Six o'clock in the
that when the call is?
We're supposed to So, when you find
call him anytime during the night. 9 1 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2C 21 22 23 24 25

--
something out, we need to know. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: other things, too. Okay. I guess there were two internal memo or
There was some
status report I guess DOE was sending out. MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes, here at the
Embassy they're going to be sending out an evacuation order for Japan here 50 miles radius of the plant. that to be
I'm not word
sure exactly but
when they're going to put people are going
out,
non-essential
evacuated. JOHN MONAGER: Now is that consistent with
the discussions you guys had with Chuck earlier? CHARLIE MILLER: JOHN MONAGER: CHARLIE MILLER: Yes. Go ahead. Yes. You're saying that John. This
I want to make sure I got that clear, NEALR.GROSS

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294 1 2
3
4 is going
is
Charlie. JOHN MONAGER:

CHARLIE
to make this
Yes.
The Japanese Government
MILLER:
decision?
5 6 7 8 9 1 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 meeting Okay? decision have is
MALE PARTICIPANT: JOHN MONAGER: CHARLIE No,
No,
the U.S.
Embassy.
the U.S. Well,
Embassy for -(inaudible) and we a
MILLER:
consistent with what we're doing, instructed by the Chairman to
been
prepare
press release that says that,
that would go out right
after the Ambassador puts his out. JOHN MONAGER: CHARLIE Okay. It's Okay. out Yes, to I 50 miles.
MILLER:
MALE PARTICIPANT: JOHN when MONAGER: was Yes, We here,
That's correct, were and, at a
yes.
different we never
Chuck
then,
touched based again. CHARLIE instructed by the done. RASCAL
okay. We've to attach that, also been file, have
MILLER:
the Chairman that
the data which we
ones,
support
MALE PARTICIPANT: coordinated at the highest Government.
And this has been all
level of the United States
NEAL R.GROSS
295
1
2 3 4 exactly been
MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE when PARTICIPANT: send and,
Okay. But
All right. we don't but by know it's the
they'll by us
that then,
order
out, off
reviewed
signed
people here at the Embassy. 6 7 8 9 i0 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2C 21 22 23 24 25 Tony, fill here. MALE PARTICIPANT: Okay. John, we're that, has that you got MALE should be bracing PARTICIPANT: for questions. Okay. Embassy staff
Because when we go
out with our press release, lot of interest and questions. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: know,
that's going to garner a
All right.
Yes.
And the issue there is order, somebody that that
a 50-mile evacuation that to, into and
to translate pertain
the Prefectures we don't have
would
information here. CHARLIE MILLER: MALE PARTICIPANT: told that State And in Yes. has kilometers. Just issued an update, their press
release,
and we're in the process of issuing ours. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Okay. Then, the other thing, He wanted to just
he had attended you guys in
a meeting.
on what some of their plans were out
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296 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 .14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 kind of the details that. team, basically Affairs, a Nakanishi. I attended mixture NISA. of a Conti METI, And meeting. Ministry of It was TONY NAKANISHI: Hi, Mike. This is Tony
Foreign they
TEPCO,
the sense was
that
were very forthcoming with the information. MIKE WEBER: Good. We went through a lot of
TONY NAKANISHI: in
terms of the chronology and stuff like
And I think a lot of the assumptions that the the NRC staff team, has is consistent with what
we have discussed during that meeting. One of the things, in one of the items that the
came up was
terms of
the next steps,
immediate steps, situation. feedback. debris pool pool. And And And
related to the Unit 4 spent-fuel pool they this were sort of to, looking for some the
pertained
basically,
that has blocked
the access
to the spent-fuel
for the fire trucks
to hose down the spent-fuel
one
gentleman
from
the
Ministry
of
Foreign Affairs had called me just a couple of hours ago. You know, he kind of apologized. He assumed
that he woke me up. But they indicated that they are going to NEAL R. GROSS
297 move forward with this plan to go forward and remove 2 3 4 if there the debris and proceed to get the facility to cool the spent-fuel pool. At the meeting earlier, were any risks to that. that with that they had asked me they should be
considering 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 1 16 17 18 19 2 21 22 23 24 25 addition encounter, to to do that to and
relative
And I had
indicated
that we'll discuss back to them.
the team here and get
And I didn't know that they were planning in do in a is few hours now. to call the So, what we are NISA I
planning contact,
contact, the
the
consultation with
team here,
think we are basically saying that at this point you ought to move forward with that, understanding that
there is potentially going to be some harm to whoever is going to be conducting that. MALE the PARTICIPANT: high rad Tony, obviously, likely in in to a
fields
they're
I mean they could also be operating
hydrogen-rich environment. TONY NAKANISHI: MALE Right. And so, if they're they need
PARTICIPANT:
going to clear that debris with machinery, to be careful. Dave Skeen is walking in. NEAL R.GROSS
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298 Dave, he's been having we're talking to Tony Nakanishi, productive discussions with and his
counterparts in Japan. DAVE SKEEN: MALE to, in Okay. Good. And they're preparing
PARTICIPANT:
several hours I think, enter the Unit 4 area to clearing about debris. what And risks so, they're may having as
begin
discussions
they
encounter
they go about doing that. MALE are going to be PARTICIPANT: clearing Just understand in front of they the
the road
building so they can get the fire truck in. just moving debris outside now. MALE PARTICIPANT: outside of the building? MALE PARTICIPANT: fire truck close enough. if there's that anything, maybe we So, Yes, Oh, okay. So,
They're
they're
they can't get the
they just wanted to see moving that, any of
while thought
they're
risk that any

--
they should
be aware
they might not be aware of.
But we don't have
MALE stable taking
PARTICIPANT: are, but I
We
don't if
know you
how are the
the buildings a bit of the
assume, from
debris
away
around
building, you should be okay. NEAL R.GROSS

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299 1 2 3 4 don't 6 7 8 9 10 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 2 22 23 24 2 they tried, over Unit 4? TONY NAKANISHI: I guess they Yes, that's correct. And But time. MALE PARTICIPANT: And was it directly we know MALE PARTICIPANT: We're going to tell
them to just do whatever it
takes to get the stuff out
of the way to get that fire truck in. MALE what PARTICIPANT: the R field Yes. might Right. be And we but
there,
they're looking at it. MALE PARTICIPANT: readings for you, if We do have some actual
you want them. Yes. Helicopter over Unit 4,
MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: 247 millisieverts per hour. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE unfortunately. Did they mention it, TONY NAKANISHI: have the time. PARTICIPANT:
What elevation? We don't have that,
Tony? I should have asked. was about 5:30 Japan
No. That
tried to do the same thing
for Unit 3, told them it
but they decided not to because something might have been higher. MALE PARTICIPANT: NEAL R. GROSS That the levels over
(202) 234-4433
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300 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 1 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MALE PARTICIPANT: (inaudible) shine. 3 is gas (inaudible). MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: the rad load except Unit 3 and Unit 4. The control room, millirem per hour, they're saying about 200 onsite Keep going. That's all we had for between Unit 4 is When gas gets released, probably just shine, and building, MALE PARTICIPANT: TONY NAKANISHI: Fuel pool. -yes, fuel pool and Unit 3 would be higher? MALE PARTICIPANT: rads were too high. MALE PARTICIPANT: TONY NAKANISHI: Wow! M M That's what they said;
basically. MALE PARTICIPANT: So, Unit 3 might be
more degraded than Unit 4 in terms of spent-fuel? MALE PARTICIPANT: We don't know.
the 20 to 30 rem around,
and they do have personnel NEAL R.GROSS
301 still in the control rooms of all the units. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT:
They said that's the general
All control rooms? They didn't say "all".

-and the place that
they
keep got in
the
people 50
while people,
they're or area I
not don't
on
shift, 200 200
they've people,
like
know, about
another
staging
that's
millirems background. That's all they would give out. TONY number, that's room NAKANISHI: They mentioned 30, the
a 30-people figure for staffing. the staffing relative But it
I'm assuming
to possibly the control seemed like it's not a
at some point.
constant number. MALE PARTICIPANT: TONY NAKANISHI: you know, I Anything else? So, no, just in summary,
think they're very open.
MALE Okay.
PARTICIPANT:
Wow,
that's
good.
MALE PARTICIPANT:
Now,
you know,
one of
NEAL R.GROSS
302 the things, 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 1 12 13 14 15 1 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 heightened we're terms of forthcoming of little Tony was talking about his meeting and how they were, points of et cetera. disconnect There was a couple between our meeting
being briefed and Tony's. were much more optimistic, you know. been But, I mean, you I
You know, I think,
our meeting they on core cooling, pretty much mixed
think that's just keep
universal,
that
getting
stories. MALE PARTICIPANT: The important thing is
that you're making contact and you're opening up those channels of communication. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: our ability to work Yes. That's so important in with them to provide
whatever assistance we can. We are probably going to be entering a
period of sensitivity here because of what to do with the release of our
about
announcement. your ability
And just hope that to communicate
that doesn't chill counterparts,
with your
because they're at their most critical phase right now and we've got to work with them. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: guys are there. Yes. So, thank goodness you the American flag,
You are carrying NEAL R. GROSS
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303
I
2 3
and you're doing a great service to the country. MALE possibility So, PARTICIPANT: Well, there may be a else, also.
that we may locate somewhere
we will keep you guys informed if
we need to move
out of here. MALE PARTICIPANT: 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 1 16 17 18 19 2 21 22 23 24 2 phones. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: CHARLIE
before you get off --
Yes,
by all means, but we're to do
you just the
need
to
take that
care you're
of
yourselves, there and
thankful
working
benefit of the world. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes. Well, if you can get us we would like It's tough
some good news by six o'clock morning, to have the Ambassador smile a little around here. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: So, if
bit.
Dave's working on it. Okay. All right. our cell
we head out,
we'll have
Okay. All right. Hey,

Charlie.
Thanks. and Tony,
MILLER:
this is
John
JOHN MONAGER: CHARLIE MILLER:
Yes. In your future meetings,
when they have made note about how low the levels were NEAL R.GROSS
www.nealrgross.com
304 1 2
3
in
the control rooms -JOHN MONAGER:

CHARLIE MILLER:
Right.
-if there's any way to
4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2.3 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 2 2
find out how they're maintaining in operators, that would be important,
that room for the because they've
got no power; backup.
they've got no AC; they've got no diesel probably have no control over the
They
ventilation system. TONY NAKANISHI: CHARLIE MILLER: them that low? Right. So, how are they keeping
CHARLIE MILLER: JOHN MONAGER: CHARLIE attention. Yes. TONY NAKANISHI:
Yes. Let's just put it That really that way. caught my
MILLER:
Okay.
I'll
definitely
keep that on my mind next time. CHARLIE MILLER: okay? TONY NAKANISHI: CHARLIE MILLER: MALE good. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Sounds Just as an aside thing,
PARTICIPANT:
NEALR. GROSS
305 1 2 3 Thank you, Charlie. Thank you, All right. guys. Bye-bye.
CHARLIE MILLER: TONY NAKANISHI:
IC
ic
11
121
13
14 15
1E
2C 21
22
26
(202) 234-4433
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306
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10
(CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) MALE PARTICIPANT: Operations Officer. I This is a Headquarters wanting to
have Chuck
Casto
come up on the bridge. BRUCE: Put him up, please. Thank you.
MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: BRUCE: Chuck. CHUCK CASTO: BRUCE: Yes, It it is is, Are
Good morning. you there? This is Bruce,
a good morning for us. and very early, too.
1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 is whether Bill minute?
CHUCK CASTO:
Yes.
Can we just talk for a
BRUCE:
Yes,
sir. Is there anything I should
CHUCK CASTO: do or be aware of? BRUCE: Borchardt of
All we can say is been before and
the Chairman and Houses, both
have
both
portions
the Congress, So,
just got
grilled on a
lot of things.
we don't know what actually will
come back to us with that regard. But one question that Eliot has been asked we have any people onsite. in Tokyo. And I
understand that everybody with you is CHUCK CASTO: Yes,
that's one of my goals
NEALR.GROSS
307 today, 2 3 is we're supposed to be able to get to the
regulators'
EOC today,
and we're trying to get
to the
EOC for TEPCO. MALE PARTICIPANT: What's the time on that
5 6 7
one? BRUCE: Where are those, Chuck? We don't know where they're
CHUCK CASTO: at.
9 1 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 21 22 23 24 2 miles. working on, site.
BRUCE:
Are they closer to the site? Yes, they're closer to the
CHUCK CASTO:
BRUCE:
Outside of Tokyo? Yes. And I'm trying to get I've
CHUCK CASTO:
to the site, but I just don't know how to do it. got to figure that out today. BRUCE: we're Okay. trying
The other thing that we're to get a little better
release information and projections, We can do that for 50 miles.
dose projections. for
And we're looking -to
something beyond that, FEMALE
and that's (inaudible) One hundred
PARTICIPANT:
200
CHUCK CASTO: BRUCE: CHUCK Yes? CASTO:
Hey,
Bruce?
Just
for
you
and
to
NEAL R.GROSS
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308 brainstorm, I came, I guess, to the conclusion this This of
morning that this has really overwhelmed TEPCO. is a national emergency for them, and it's
sort
like BP and the oil spill. for TEPCO. BRUCE:
You know,
this is
too big
And that's understandable.
BRUCE: Do you
No,
I don't think so. Chuck, that we made the
know,
NEAL R. GROSS
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309
1
2
recommendation
that
U.S.
citizens
be
evacuated
from
within 50 miles of the site? CHUCK yesterday. CASTO: Yes, we worked on that
That was chaos.
6
7 8 9 10 11 12 :13 14 15 16 17
18
19
20 21 22 23 24 25 receptive It to us, looks like TEPCO is being much more that they
to John and Tim and those guys So,
are putting together mitigative strategies. seem to be more receptive to advice and help. BRUCE: might be overwhelmed. Well, I can understand
how they
NEAL R. GROSS
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310 I CHUCK CASTO: So, when you talk to Bill
5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 don't know CHUCK CASTO: how much

but
You know, know
Naval Reactors, what
you
--
about
happened
yesterday on that,
BRUCE:
A little
bit.
NEAL R.GROSS
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(202) 234-44,33
.311
1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
16 first --
CHUCK CASTO: suggested, there. BRUCE: Okay. you know,
But they were the ones that need to cross the line
they
CHUCK CASTO: we're here. I
So,
anyhow,
I guess
11l -to get a
don't know if
you know how
hold of me or us here. BRUCE: FEMALE liaison numbers, team has Somebody knows. PARTICIPANT: everybody's Yes. numbers, I think cell the
phone
and stuff. MALE PARTICIPANT: We have his BlackBerry
number of here. FEMALE PARTICIPANT: BRUCE: I'm BlackBerry numbers. This is my
getting a yes.
17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 land line, is. It
CHUCK CASTO:
BRUCE: -shift,
Shift?
yes. So, I'm
--
CHUCK CASTO: but I
I'm
talking
to
you
off
have no idea what
the phone number
ends inI M.J.: That's okay. I know, in This is M.J. I We've the
got your numbers, liaison We've team has
the back. we've and got get
think
them to
and
them Jim
around. and Tony
been
able
reach
out
NEAL R.GROSS
312 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 IC 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 21 22 23 24 25 suggested (inaudible) think what we get -whenever we need. CHUCK CASTO: I think we What I'll do is, have three as soon as this
briefings TEPCO. each of
morning. soon as
We have more meetings with I get those briefings, I'll
And as those
briefings,
M.J.
and Bruce,
call you and give you
a download on that. But I think what we're waiting on is, waiting to on the is, what is DoD's I
we're with
capability
regard
request
for resources they
that we sent in
last night?
I think, last I saw,
said they could get back to us in
eight hours and tell
us how much of that stuff they can get done. M.J.: talking about? CHUCK CASTO: the pumping systems. M.J.: got that. Okay. Yes, I know, I think Yes, the equipment list and That's that equipment list you're
I know that effort is The other thing is going to need a
ongoing. somebody to
CHUCK CASTO: that they're
sea boom
protect the suction of that -Didn't you suggest that? that we sent in,
I think it
was Richard.
That along with that design
that they are probably going to need the suction as well. I don't
a sea boom to protect
NEAL R.GROSS
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313 1 2 3 know. happen. VONNA ORDAZ: How are you? CHUCK CASTO: 6 7 8 9 IC 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 is harm's way, VONNA ORDAZ: Good. Question: you mentioned you Chuck, this is Vonna Ordaz. You know, we'll see if they can make that
were heading to the site or trying to get to the site? CHUCK CASTO: VONNA ORDAZ: Yes. Are you familiar with the
doses around the (inaudible)? CHUCK CASTO: Yes. Yes, I think ECO, what where of
we're talking about the site is they're working out of that is
the local not in
that
kind
dose field. VONNA ORDAZ: Okay. Don't put yourself in
MALE PARTICIPANT: Chuck. CHUCK CASTO: considered a site; VONNA that is to the -CHUCK CASTO: it at. is. We're still But, you know, No, it's Yes,
I think, you know,
that
at 'the EOC, You don't
the local EOC. know how close
ORDAZ:
21
22 23 24 2
we don't know how close to figure out where fortunate, NISA, it's they
trying we
were
agreed and we're getting into their ECO, NEAL R.GROSS

wherever that
www,nealrgross.com
314 I 2 3 4 Headquarters 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 .16 17 18 19 20 21 2 23 give to get him? BRUCE: Yes, he is. Yes, I'm on the bridge. All right. I'm going to just a This is talking, is. Somebody is And doing that this morning. it looks like, the way TEPCO their EOC. is the is
I'm hoping that they'll put us in MALE PARTICIPANT: This
Ops Officer.
We have Bill Borchardt and
the Chairman coming up on the bridge. BRUCE: BILL Bill. MALE PARTICIPANT: BILL BORCHARDT: Is Hi, Chairman. Okay. BORCHARDT: Good afternoon. Hi.
The Chairman's with me. or is it possible
Chuck on the bridge,
CHUCK CASTO:
BILL BORCHARDT: the phone here to
the Chairman
who has
couple of questions. CHUCK CASTO: Okay. Hello. Chuck Casto Hey, Chuck. Hey,
NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: CHUCK CASTO: NRC CHAIRMAN can you just -in any way, Yes,
sir?
JACZKO:
and I don't want you to interpret this
24
25
questioning anything - I am just trying to
confirm what the source of our information is. NEAL R.GROSS

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315 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 1 13 14 1 16 17 18 19 2C 21 22 23 24 25 progress TEPCO is on to, well, got TEPCO. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: CHUCK CASTO: us Okay. Government. CHUCK CASTO: Which information? TEPCO -Okay.
--
Mainly,
our source of information is
NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: CHUCK CASTO: I
and
Conti,
the
We're embedded,
think we're doing 24/7
with their Government meeting. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: pool indications, team in Japan? So, the spent-fuel I would say, our
that's coming from,
Would that be acceptable? CASTO: Yes, they're coming from
CHUCK
They've been more receptive the cooling system, to DoD, and and
and designing in on
we've
requests
the equipment
they're getting back with how much equipment they can get in here. They've already, I understand that
they've started to move those big four pumps the site. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: CHUCK CASTO: getting I So, you're -that and
towards
think
we're making suggestions.
involvement
reaching out to us now on the designs of the systems. And John and all the guys are
mitigating
putting together a design,
and we're working on it.
NEAL R. GROSS
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11
1 2 3
5 6 7
8
9 10
12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: CHUCK CASTO: NRC just to repeat, believe one of CHAIRMAN Yes.
That you can imagine. JACZKO: Yes. 4 is is So, dry, again, and we
we believe pool No. the other pools
potentially
structurally damaged? CHUCK CASTO: That's correct. Okay. And again

--
That's the best we know. Yes. certainly 4, know, I the
And we
think we absolutely know that pool No. walls have collapsed -NEAL R. GROSS
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234-4433 (202) o
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317 NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: CHUCK CASTO: -Okay. 4. because that
on pool No.
NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: I'm going to get asked the
And again,
question,
where's
coming from. E is in Japan
I'm going to say it's that is embedded that is
from a team that working closely
with the Japanese utility agency, is that correct? CHUCK CASTO:
and the Japanese regulatory
IC
Correct. Okay. That's all I
NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: 11 12 13 need. BRUCE: Chuck,
before you go -Yes?
CHUCK CASTO: BRUCE: --
you indicated that the walls of
15 1 19 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
the pool were damaged or down? CHUCK CASTO: Yes. I'm not going to get
NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: into that level of detail. is it's dry. CHUCK CASTO: inventory at all. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: you. I appreciate it. CHUCK CASTO: MALE Yes, Yes,
I mean the relevant factor
and they can't maintain
Okay.
Good.
Thank
sir. Chuck, we got a
PARTICIPANT: NEAL R.GROSS
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318 1 2 3 4 hours ago. 6 7 8 9 10 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 consistent. were told, dropped off. MALE PARTICIPANT: But it's okay because But the the CHUCK CASTO: Chairman that Well, then, that's I need to tell not what we briefing before from Tony and John, and they indicated
that there was structural integrity to the core pool. CHUCK CASTO: MALE When was that? That was about four
PARTICIPANT:
because
understood just a few hours ago. MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes, we relayed that
information after we got it CHUCK CASTO: MALE Is
from your team. the Chairman still No. I think on? he's
PARTICIPANT:
he's not going to get into that level of detail. we just need to be careful about consistency I know it's in
assessment of change, too.
the information.
going to
CHUCK
CASTO:
Yes,
well,
we
were
That's what we heard;
that's the last we
that the walls were not there. MALE PARTICIPANT: Right. Because our
discussion with part of your team was we thought you had abandoned that pool the notion of putting coolant back in
and that you were looking more at dropping NEAL R.GROSS

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319 1 2 3 at sand or something else like that? CHUCK CASTO: all yesterday. We were No, we didn't suggest that
The Reactor still
Safety Team suggested with water on all
the sand. four pools.
working
And, 7 Let's prepare moving. 9

10
then,
said
let's
go
both
ways.
for water and sand,
get both solutions
MALE we had was that
PARTICIPANT: there was
So,
the latest update to the 4 pool,
integrity
although it 111 12 13
had drained or evaporated. CHUCK CASTO: FEMALE Dry? Bill, what did you
PARTICIPANT:
receive from Jim? MALE PARTICIPANT: 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2E

NI,,AL M. UlJD;) COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701
Bill Ruan (phonetic) is
in
the room,
too,
Chuck. PARTICIPANT: He's been on the
FEMALE phone with Jim. BILL
RUAN
(phonetic):
Okay.
just
talked to Jim Trapp. background from. of where
And let me try to give you the some of this information comes
(2021 234-4433
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320
1 2
And he basically,
CHUCK 7 8 9 that's what I was
CASTO;
Yes,
they
can't You
keep
--
told last
night.
cannot
get
inventory above the bottom of the fuel. BILL RUAN: No. What Jim told me
11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 is gone, And basically, and at least in his opinion, everything else and, of course, pool left. CHUCK CASTO: BILL RUAN: Right. Unit 3, he believes CHUCK CASTO: So, it's drained.
MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: BILL RUAN: CHUCK CASTO: you can't get water in BILL RUAN: it. Yes,
Right.
Right. Yes. Right, right. I was saying,
That's what
because
there's no fuel
Chuck knows this, Jim's opinion is NEALR.GROSS
there's no water in
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321 the pool. 2 3 FEMALE PARTICIPANT: BILL RUAN: Unit 2, you that hole. CHUCK CASTO: BILL RUAN: 10 11
12
Unit 3?
Unit 3. it's drying out. now, that If hole that
he believes
look at
the top of
the building
they created,
there's
steam coming out of
It's
in
dryout. out. might be
They're drying it the only pool
And, okay is Unit 1.

In
then,
that
our
discussion
--
and,
Chuck,
hope
13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 2 2
you're doing well,
by the way
--
what we don't know is
what Jim told me was Daiene has declared an emergency on Unit, they've declared an evacuation. So, maybe you triage this thing and try to
help them maintain those units. CHUCK CASTO:

Borchardt is still on, but
Well,
--
I don't know if
Bill
MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK yesterday about get CASTO:
No, he's not. There was 3, some talk to in
trying to get, so
on Unit
trying
that hole bigger,
that we can push water
there from the outside. MALE PARTICIPANT: Right.
NEAL R. GROSS
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322 1 2 3 4 2, the CHUCK CASTO: make that hole bigger, outside. I don't You know, yes, Unit 2. Unit
so they can push water from know how you make the hole
bigger, but they need to take the top of that building down. MALE PARTICIPANT: Well, we have some
ideas. FEMALE PARTICIPANT: What's the proximity
9
1 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
of Daiene to
--
MALE PARTICIPANT: like right up there. FEMALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Daiene. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT:
It's
north.
Yes,
it's
Oh,
it's
close. Daiichi; that's
This is
Yes. -You know, as Jim has
pointed out, when you do your calculations nuclear engineering degree, know, what's the dose
to get your
you do your radiation, you for the single fuel
rate
assembly?
You know,
you get like a million R an hour.
And we've got how many fuel assemblies? BRUCE: Hey, Chuck? Yes? of the questions that we've and
CHUCK CASTO: BRUCE: had is One
we're getting some conflicting information, NEAL R.GROSS

323
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 up there, manipulate. anything. certainly, So, information Bruce, Bill may have something more up-to-date it than me. But
looked like there were a lot of attempts to try to And so, we've heard in
get power back to the site. one instance sites; others,
that they've got the power line back to that they're still CASTO: I've Yes, heard. working on it. we don't The have any
CHUCK on
that
only
thing,
I mean it's
always helpful to get power back. it's really just not going to
But my understanding is do any good. BRUCE: CHUCK switchgear damage. Yes.
CASTO: In
In
some
cases,
there's
other cases,
you can't get in
there to do anything anyhow. BRUCE: CHUCK You Okay. CASTO: can't You know, you breakers can't or
manipulate but not,
power is
helpful,
you know --
power will help up at the other one. MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: certainly, Because but Daiene. The power will help going to help at
Daiene. it's not
Daiichi. power if
there's
nothing you
could do with
you had it. MALE PARTICIPANT: NEAL R.GROSS

How
can
we help
you
(202) 234-4433
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324 from this end? CHUCK CASTO: Well, you know, whatever we you know, I
can do to coordinate the federal response, close, tighter, would be helpful.
In other words,
don't know if
you guys can get a bridge with Admiral the DoD people, INPO, GE, you know,
Mueller and all
the biggest group, American group, together than can help.
that we can get put
KSX
MALE PARTICIPANT: to TMI, staff, just I was actually
When I helped respond in the licensee's but the
embedded
just the same thing, trying to put extra
but very different, people in helping
NEALR. GROSS
325 licensee doing. 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 formal, with So, their recovery or whatever they were extra
I could see where having a lot of
hands would be helpful. FEMALE but is PARTICIPANT: it possible, Again, just not to be of case
because note in
(inaudible), they
to get some our
type of brief
question
official
(inaudible,
possibly
"position")?
6\111
13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 if you need Chuck? CHUCK CASTO:

US.
FEMALE here.
PARTICIPANT:
Okay.
One
second
MALE PARTICIPANT:
Anything else
for us,
No.
You know how to get us,
MALE PARTICIPANT:
Okay.
NEAL R.GROSS
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326
CHUCK CASTO:
All right.
Thanks.
GROSS NEAL R.
1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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327
1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 is, the assembled, Headquarters
(CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) MALE PARTICIPANT: Officer. This Chuck is Casto the is
Operations
coming up on the bridge. FEMALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: FEMALE the (inaudible, This is Chuck, Chuck. Hey, Chuck, you got are you there?
PARTICIPANT:
possibly "A Team"). Hey, I've got our team here I'll let Tim to the
CHUCK CASTO:
so we can all be on one page.
and John brief you on the latest with respect spent-fuel pools and whatever else.
I think one thing we just want to clarify on Unit 4 spent-fuel structural integrity pool, is it's likely dry, I guess but is it the
uncertain,
probably the best way to put it. will hold water or won't hold
We don't know if water, It's what
structural integrity exactly is. it's lost, but it's
not clear that will hold water,
not clear that it
either. And Bill Borchardt, if you can get that too. Okay. make sure that's he got information to
that would help,
FEMALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: So,
a clear understanding of the Unit 4 spent-fuel pool. NEAL R. GROSS

(202) 234-4433
328 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 1 13 1 1 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 So, of can at that, if tells tells us, you repeat this right. CHUCK CASTO: from METI and I think our best our best knowledge knowledge the Unit 4 MALE PARTICIPANT: that? I just want I'm sorry, Chuck, could
to make sure I've got
TEPCO,
us that
the structural unknown.
integrity of
spent-fuel pool is
MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: uncertain whether it MALE It
Okay. is likely dry, but it's
can hold water or not. They seem to think
PARTICIPANT:
they put water up there,
that they could keep
the fuel cool. CHUCK CASTO: least do You can at least spray, you
steam cooling maybe.
That's
where
they're headed on that. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: (Inaudible). I think, you know, I
don't know that we were clear with that with Bill this morning. So, I just want to make sure that he's Hey, Bill, I'm here, too.
CHUCK CASTO: you know, the
I certainly was unclear. information, and I
I was unaware apologize, and
additional
have got to communicate through the team.
I gave you
a bidding based on information I had yesterday. NEAL R.GROSS

(202)234-4433
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329 1 2 3 4 units 6 7 than much. PARTICIPANT: We don't know how much. have, Unit 4 Chuck? CHUCK CASTO: I guess Unit 3, you know, the other MALE PARTICIPANT: FEMALE PARTICIPANT: Okay. What about Unit 3,
the other units pool, but we
have water more don't know how
spent-fuel
8MALE
9
they gave us yesterday that looks like steam is by Unit 2 and Unit 3. CHUCK that hole. opened and it's it's one CASTO: Yes, Unit 2, they opened They coming out of above the fuel pool
1 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2
You've probably seen
the picture.
the hole in steaming. level,

--
the side of the reactor Well, least although one -it
building, that
appears
at
Richard,
what would
you say? fuel pool is
at least one level below where the spentis, which tells us that the whole building full of steam, and it's venting out
probably
through that hole. Unit atmosphere and 3, it's it looks like in it's open photo to the
steaming
this
heavily,
which probably mean it's Unit 3. Unit 4,
by now likely dried out for
the photos that we have, you know, NEAL R. GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
330 it 2 3 confident 5 6 7 8 9 1C 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 (phonetic). walls, sound, -it up looks like there has been some kind of an explosion there, obviously, And help may me and it there, out, looks like they guys have, it seem -there's to be steam fairly the
that be
there
that
actually
structurally-
although they don't know if MALE PARTICIPANT:
can hold water. The pictures but the spentSo,
Right.
show exterior walls fuel pool isn't
being demolished,
up against
the exterior walls.
they believe the more interior spent-fuel are in place and, if not,
pool walls
they would get significant And they
shine from around a walk around the plant. don't have that. CHUCK clarify that in CASTO: So, we probably
need
to
Bill's and the Chairman's mind. headed for -Tony,
And the team here is what about Conti? TONY We
What do we want to say about them? NAKANISHI: gave a little We visited briefing Basically, NISA. it Tariakmishu last night
after my visit to the Conti. of people there. some of in there, many folks,
was a lot
TEPC people were go through but,
And basically, the chronology
we were in a little
trying to
more detail,
general,
they were very open and forthcoming with
information.
NEAL R.GROSS
331 1
6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 1 1 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 there, So, they're clearly, at least from my sharing experience information
really open about
and trying, you know,
to get help from us. Now they, is on Unit 4, I think
CHUCK CASTO: the access road is TONY they had also sort of
blocked, NAKANISHI:
that right, Tony? Right. regarding they And one thing they to do
mentioned was, what
Unit 4,
communicated
intended
regarding the debrises that have sort of accessway fuel pool. So, at 6:00 a.m. this for fire trucks to go and cool
impeded the the spent-
morning,
which
is
right about what -CHUCK CASTO: TONY An hour ago.

--
NAKANISHI:
an
hour
ago
here,
assuming that they preceded as planned,
they probably
have started the activity to remove some of the debris around the access. my understanding is And, then, if it goes as planned, to try to
they're going to start NEALR.GROSS
(202) 234-4433
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332 inject water into the spent-fuel pool. 2 3 4 One thing they were looking for regarding that was sort of the NRC's there were any risk feedback on, that you know, should if be
issues
they
considering relative to that. with the ET and, 7 8 9 10 11 1 13 14 1 1 17 1 19 2 21 22 23 2 2 this is there, share communicating also,
And after consultation
the team here, we're basically this point the bottom line is
that at
get that pool cooled with water. And so, granted, there's risks associated
with dose and maybe potential criticality, or possibly even some hydrogen, basically, planned. depending on where they're headed,
the bottom line was they should proceed as So, I that was that point regarding Unit 4. believe today we're going to go back to So, So,
and there were some items that they wanted with us that we deferred it to today.
that's more details regarding the dose situation. we'll be heading over there at 10 o'clock, CHUCK CASTO: Anything -This is wait a Chuck. minute. Hold
I believe.
on.
Richard's got something. RICHARD DeVERCELLY: Richard DeVercelly

--
One thing I'll
add --
the strategy to get the
water into the spent-fuel pool I definitely believe is the right thing to do. One thing that we need to be
NEALR. GROSS
333 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 1 12 13 1 15 16 17 18 19 2 2 22 23 24 25 could prepared amount there, of for and understand is, depending upon the
fuel exposure
that is
already occurring in
and the temperature of
the cladding that's on
that fuel,
we could end up with some fuel damage as a
result of the overquenching. MALE already damaged. RICHARD anticipate DeVERCELLY: Correct. So, we of PARTICIPANT: Which may have been
potential It's
releases,
elevations
radiation, it
contamination.
the right thing to do;
needs to be cooled. MALE PARTICIPANT: Right. I mean, right? talking like There as a right,
you're talking like balloon and burst, RICHARD DeVERCELLY:
I'm
throwing hot water on an iced-over windshield. would be fragmentation of the fuel cladding
result of overcooling. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: probably melted. reaction actual to I mean, if all Right. A lot of the fuel is
you got that exothermic that hydrogen gas, an
be generating
exothermic reaction produces
twice the heat of
decayed heat.
There's probably quite a bit of spentmelted some or -That's correct.
fuel pool that, whether it's MALE PARTICIPANT:
NEAL R.GROSS
334
1 MALE PARTICIPANT: -open, or whatever --
2 3 4 5 possibly,
MALE
PARTICIPANT:
Just
adding that more
fuel failure may result in MALE
the pool when we cool it. Right. (Inaudible,
PARTICIPANT:
"There would be definitely a big shock.") MALE PARTICIPANT: more And they've even evaluated with on it know, that than some and
whether risk? 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 sand or
that It's
water's more
effective
effective of
to put water with, on you
some
sort They've
solid
shielding?
guessed
that
analysis
arrived at that conclusion? MALE doing analysis. they can. I don't PARTICIPANT: I don't think they're
I think they're trying to do anything
My thought with the sand versus the water, know where you are in four days, a week,
whatever. there baking, in
All that heat is that sand, and it's
just going to stay down just going to keep
baking, baking,
you know. Yes. And where are you, a
thousand degrees with the sand? MALE PARTICIPANT: With the sand, you may
help with shine, but you're not helping with cooling. MALE (inaudible) PARTICIPANT: You know, Yes. I mean, well,
months.
that would be a very
NEAL R. GROSS
335
1 2
3
insulated way down there -MALE PARTICIPANT: it says you cool, And I think that NUREG, molten
you use water on that core,
core, no matter what. MALE PARTICIPANT: E Even it's MALE PARTICIPANT: formed a crust -MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Right. it gets some Right. It gets some cooling.
12
13
cooling. MALE PARTICIPANT: I didn't hear, Chuck,
what you said was the status of the Unit 1 spent-fuel 14 15 11 15 13 1lE idea. we pool. CHUCK CASTO: I don't think we have any
We haven't seen any steam and we don't really, know the status of Unit 1 spent-fuel pool.
don't
You know that, you know, 12 it. And it likely,
nobody's been adding water to
like most of the American ones, you know. Right. it would take So, a long
doesn't have automatic makeup, 2C 21 MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: But
time to drain just by natural evaporation. 22 2]

of Unit
that's
not urgent, 1.
but,
so far, we haven't seen any steam out

I'm sure they -I don't
24 know.
I don't know. pools
The spent-fuel
I'm used to,
they don't
NEAL R.GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) W234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com v
336 have an automatic makeup. 2 3 level, 5 6 7 8 9 I1 11 12 13 14 15 16 1 1 19 20 21 22 23 21 2 E M I this chatted gave lait anyhow
--
MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: it You up.
No,
that's right. an alarm on low
get
and you go fill MALE
PARTICIPANT:
They
don't
have
the
power anyway. MALE PARTICIPANT: makeup. CHUCK CASTO: Yes. So, for a GE plant The design has no auto
MALE
PARTICIPANT:
Right.
You
can
send
that signal all you want,
but there's nothing to do. Just Webber the one thought: and ET, list we
MALE PARTICIPANT: night Reactor with Mike Safety
and he of that And
the
Team
equipment that
the U.S.
would consider
sending.
they were engaged in I saw email from
Department of Defense, Joe Williams
et cetera. out a
sending
conceptual design.
NEAL R.GROSS
337 morning to ensure that this stuff can come in. were looking for an update on that. 3 4 5 6 TEPCO again equipment here. You guys got anything up that alley? MALE PARTICIPANT: 9 10 11 12 13 14 1 16 17 1 19 2 21 22 23 24 25 again. MALE PARTICIPANT: should have all the list. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: there, what's actually there. MALE PARTICIPANT: Well, we could shoot You sho uld have it. No, no I mean what's Well, y ou have it. You it. is No, all we have so far is, We also have a 10 o'clock meeting over at to talk about this design and where the So, we
and how long it's
going to take to get
four submersible pumps at Yokota Air Force Base and diesel-driven pump, and it's
a 500-gallon-per-minute ready to go.
That's all we've got so far. MALE PARTICIPANT: And that's all
(inaudible) information that said that it's out of Yokota. FEMALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: I'm just told it exists. So, Well,
on its way
(inaudible).
I haven't actually seen
MALE PARTICIPANT:
give me that list
NEAL R.GROSS
www.nealrgross.com
338
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 came in Morris. Earlier today, there was a request that you this. There was an email. too. Okay. Chuck, this is Scott Read it all, and we'll
forward you the email,
MALE PARTICIPANT: SCOTT MORRIS:
Hey,
with respect to Unit 2,
and they were looking facility might be
for ideas on how the walls of this removed

--
CHUCK CASTO: SCOTT spraying of water. CHUCK CASTO: SCOTT MORRIS: that? CHUCK CASTO: Webber to answer it, SCOTT look into it. MALE that. MORRIS:
Right. -to enable airdrop or
11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 now, but I is
Right. Have you heard any more on
We had back. Okay.
(inaudible)
or Mike
I guess, MORRIS:
(Inaudible)
still
PARTICIPANT:
Okay.
We
are
doing
I just didn't know.
I stepped out for a while.
I didn't know whether you had heard any more. I mean, the as yes, it is is, other apparently that steaming heard pools
guess that,
concern these
I have
expressed
spent-fuel
NEAL R.GROSS
339
steam going 3 4 down to go and lose up at inventory, rad levels are only to
the site,
and the
opportunity
bring in
some of these temporary measures is
going to
be limited just because of the dose rates onsite. So, raising it is it it would would behoove behoove
--
the folks
reason to
I'm
perhaps
7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
consider making sure that the inventory in pools in to keep
spent-fuel
Unit I and 2 don't go below a certain point the rad levels at least stable. Because if
those go below, MALE whatsoever of
then rad levels are, you know -PARTICIPANT: what. They They're have just no way
telling
dumping
water whenever they have it
available. That's why we're trying you can't get in they're still
MALE PARTICIPANT: to get this spray system. there to do anything.
You know,
And,
you know,
just trying to clear a road to the site. MALE want the hole is PARTICIPANT: right now I Yes. The reason just they one
guess 'it's
blowout panel. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE system, they want hole, PARTICIPANT: Right. If there's a spray
a 5-meter-by-5-meter, so they can shoot this
or something spray system I mean
like that,
from a hundred meters away and hit the hole. NEALR.GROSS

www.nealrgross.com
340 1 2 the winds So, out here are, you know, significant, too.
they need a large hole. Also, regardless of whether the they get the
spray 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 1 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 21 22 23 24 2 do it got to
or not,
they don't want
reactor
building,
they don't want the hydrogen explosion in building. in Unit 2.
the reactor
They've got to vent that reactor building They wan to get that thing open, open,
open. We talked about, shooting there. MALE understand when the that. first of PARTICIPANT: Right. No, simply I a rocket-propelled threw grenade out an option or something to up
All I'm suggesting is these temporary
that,
measures
becomes
available,
maybe it
would be wise to
try to work on is level left they're
the two units where we think there still in still the pool, as evidence by the fact
that
steaming. CHUCK CASTO: all. get We're trying it stuff designed Yes. all. Well, we're going to we've yes,
First of all, and then,
and there, So,
we'll get the priorities. to get it all to it. Is
we're just going to try
there anything else? (phonetic): Yes, this is Bill
BILL RUAN
NEAL R.GROSS
(202) 234-4433
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341 1
2 3 4
Ruan (phonetic).
I haven't heard for some time a report of
the water status going into the cores And I was just wondering if
of these units.
you know of any change in
5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 1 1 17 18 19 20 2 22 23 24 2
that status. MALE yesterday, that PARTICIPANT: ago, What what they told us
about six hours good some So,
they told us is the core spray lines, some this, diesel-
they had using
injection beeman they
through (phonetic)
headers that,
whatever.
had to
fire
driven pumps hooked up to all four units, good core spray coolant for the past
and they had So,
48 hours.
they were very comfortable with that. Now Tony got a little bit different
information at a separate meeting. TONY Conti meeting. provided NAKANISHI: Right, and this is the
The indication there was, in terms of the level
I guess they indication. itself
some data
And the first was,
caveat
they had was
that level
you know, not of high confidence.
But that level
was basically indicating about half of the active fuel length was uncovered. MALE PARTICIPANT: TONY NAKANISHI: unit 2 is Which unit, Tony? This is 1 and 3. And 2, the
sort of maybe a couple of days behind NEAL R. GROSS

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342 1 2 other other you 4 ones because their (inaudible) was -so, the
thing they had mentioned was they are able to, know, even the though seawater was the core is has level maybe been is, half
uncovered, So,
injection that the
stable. more or
my understanding stable.
less, 7
Okay. And the other Units 4,
9 1 11 12 13 1 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 2 24 2
5,
and 6? TONY NAKANISHI: Well, 4, 5, and 6, because they they
shouldn't were in
have
any fuel
in
the reactor
shutdown. MALE PARTICIPANT: TONY NAKANISHI: Okay. Now although Unit 4, one other
thing I found out was for, happened in months.
the actual shutdown So, that's a few fuel came out
November of last year. the
So,
freshest-discharged
around November. MALE PARTICIPANT:
TONY NAKANISHI: MALE RST's email PARTICIPANT: there?
Okay. So, We Bill, to what's shoot the this
address
want
email with this equipment available. MALE PARTICIPANT: NEAL R,GROSS

RST02,
is
that
a good
(202) 234-4433
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343 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 email
HOC@NRC.GOV.
MALE MALE
one?
MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE
01. Go ahead. 01. Okay.
PARTICIPANT:
MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE MALE MALE MALE MALE
PARTICIPANT: PARTICIPANT: PARTICIPANT: PARTICIPANT: PARTICIPANT:
01HOC.
RSTO01. --
No,
no,
no dot.
RST01HOC@NRC.GOV.
Got it.
RST01. --
MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE
PARTICIPANT:
No,
RST01,
01,
PARTICIPANT: PARTICIPANT: So, if
Oh,
okay.
And just cc my regular some screwup, I can
address.
there's
forward it
to them. MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: If Excellent. We're going to do
Okay.
some team work here.
you need anything,
you know
how to get a hold of us. BRUCE: Chuck? Yes, Chuck, this is Bruce.
I've had a couple of questions. CHUCK CASTO: BRUCE: Sure.
The liaison team was working with
a phone call between you guys and the DOE folks. NEAL R.GROSS
344 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 a 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 support it. want me to. CHUCK CASTO: it? Well, we were trying to Well, yes. Yes, we'll bridge. It's -is. MALE PARTICIPANT: couldn't we tie into one of Well, I guess we could at? you guys can Taggart MARTIN TAGGART (phonetic): This is Martin
(phonetic) from the liaison team. we were trying to set up a conference call
with you guys and DOE, here, to try to
at the request of a DOE member this DOE flyover that's
coordinate
going to be occurring in about an hour and a half. I sent you an email to see whether or not (inaudible) that call or not. MALE PARTICIPANT: they were ready to go. MALE PARTICIPANT: Bill Cook can do that, Hold on. Where's Bill The DOE guy said that
right? I'm not sure where Bill
MALE PARTICIPANT:
the bridge lines into
the bridge? CHUCK CASTO: Yes, yes, we can use the
just who on our team is
going to support
that call. MALE PARTICIPANT: I can do that, if you
What time is
MARTIN TAGGART:
NEAL R.GROSS
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345 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 time, 9 I1 11 12 13 14 1 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 up there, (Inaudible) up, make it convenient for you guys. The email I sent was and, support the if it. so, what They that's
whether or not you could support it would be wanted the time that you could it before
the
time
to do
flyover
scheduled for -CHUCK CASTO: MARTIN 9:00 a.m. our time. -eight o'clock our
TAGGART:
I guess would be nine o'clock your time. CHUCK CASTO: Right. Yes, well, just hook have
hook them up,
and call Jim Trapp.
Get them,
them call Jim Trapp's cell phone. MARTIN TAGGART: CHUCK CASTO: Jim Trapp's cell phone?
Yes. Okay. And Alan, isn't Alan, DOE,
MARTIN TAGGART: CHUCK CASTO: the flyover guy? MALE
PARTICIPANT:
I'll
go
get
him.
this morning. CHUCK CASTO: Yes. They've got a night guy
MALE PARTICIPANT: and a day guy. CHUCK CASTO: yes, Yes.
Alan,
or whoever it So,
is
we've got DOE here as well.
they
can hook up Jim and the DOE guy here, can hook up and talk about the flyover. NEAL R. GROSS
and DOE there
(202) 234-4433 . o
www.nealrgross.com
346 1 2 3 4 a lot. 6 7 8 CHUCK CASTO: BRUCE: Yes. MARTIN TAGGART: be Jim Trapp? CHUCK CASTO: Yes. Okay. All right. Thanks Okay. So, it's going to
MARTIN TAGGART:
A couple more. Any other questions, a couple more. an emergency, we The hear. Bruce? Daiene Any
CHUCK CASTO: BRUCE: Yes,
10
site was insight --
also
declared
11
12 13 1 1 16 1 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
CHUCK CASTO:
Yes,
Jim's working,
Jim's I going
think going to work on that, on there, what we need to do. MALE PARTICIPANT: any other insights right now? CHUCK CASTO: Daiene? No. MALE PARTICIPANT: Daiene site. MALE dose rates. MALE PARTICIPANT: PARTICIPANT:
figure out what's
Okay,
but we don't have
Do we
know anything
about
Dose rate to the site,
Yes,
they
have
some
Any recent readings on
the dose rates at the site or near the site? CHUCK CASTO: From the newspaper, we got
NEAL R. GROSS
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347 60 MR at the gate. 2 3 information. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: the flyover 7 they were? CHUCK CASTO: 9 1 1
12
MALE PARTICIPANT:
At Daiichi,
we got some
Yes,
there's one --
Didn't we say 25 rem on know how high
that we had,
but we don't
Right.
Yes,
we don't know to put out any
how high, numbers
yes.
I don't think we want
because we don't have any that are accurate. but we don't know
They flew over and got 25 millirem,

--
13
14
MALE PARTICIPANT:
CHUCK CASTO: --
Twenty-five rem.
or 25 rem. We don't know
1 1 1 18 19 20
21
if
they were flying, you know, MALE PARTICIPANT:
10 feet or 10,000 feet. The Japanese did that
mission. CHUCK CASTO: BILL: have is it's

but
Yes. So, be the approach I want to dose rate
Okay. to
going
--
highly-elevated
readings,
22 23 24 25 It's high.
CHUCK CASTO:
That's
a good thing,
Bill.
BILL:
And just leave it Yes.
at that.
CHUCK CASTO:
The helicopters tried,
NEAL R.GROSS
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348 1 2 3 4 want 6 7 drop 9 thing they over, so, tried to use the helicopter and and they had to abort that. fly some water --
They couldn't
our helicopter theory isn't MALE PARTICIPANT: to put some lead shields
working. Okay. Maybe we would
around their detectors
before they fly that. CHUCK CASTO: Yes. now So, isn't the helicopter an option.
probably
right
They've tried it. you know -MALE
Unless we think we can do better,
10
11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 21 22 23 24 2
PARTICIPANT:
(Inaudible)
helicopter
(inaudible) dropping water. CHUCK CASTO: rates were too high. Anything guys have? BRUCE: doing, Out of all the Chuck? things you're Yes, it tried, and the dose
They abandoned that. else? What other questions you
what are your priorities,
You want to
get folks near the site. CHUCK CASTO: site. That's a priority. FEMALE Yes, And-Do you know the move people near the
PARTICIPANT:
actual locations of the EOCs for the site, CHUCK CASTO: heard that. We still I don't think
like how -we've ever
don't know. NEAL R. GROSS
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COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE. N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701
349 1 FEMALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: 3 working towards that. with METI and TEPCO is surely. 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1 1 1 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Because, I mean, you could imagine one of our everybody, we're And so, moving But Okay. we're working. We're
The better relationship we have moving us that way slowly, but
with Tony's help and all and closer to better
the guys, and more
closer So,
information.
that's a good thing. priority is to keep us safe and
The
you know,
in what we do,
but --
MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: information is information.
Roger that. closer to real
And to get
a priority, you know,
the closer to the
NEAL R.GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS (202) 234-4433 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.ealrgross.com
350 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 operators, our system, six units, is I if think even one of our operators even in
you've got four units like this, maybe for one operator this
six spent-fuel pools,
like the BP oil spill. I think it it
For one operator to run it, my
you know, opinion is, capability.
has exceeded the capability,
has exceeded their capability,
TEPCO's
12 13 1 1 1 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 with them, between that thought, MALE Chuck. PARTICIPANT: Are the You just triggered utilities a
other
Japanese
pitching in?
Or can you see any help from them? MALE PARTICIPANT: We were in a meeting
and they said they had resources available, to 300 TEPCO total for the Daiichi They have site, and
200
included
employees.
borrowed
some from other licensees and have some fleets there, and they have some of the civil defense forces that. CHUCK CASTO: Yes, that's why I think
NEALR.GROSS
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351 1 2 3 they're undermanned. help them put in the going, You know, system right they were asking us to but in we're there not and
together, now, going
interested doing that.
But one of the goals is, 6 7 8 9 1 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 try to get it know that equipment, somewhere, fit we it probably needs
if to
we can get the be mocked-up
you know,
to make sure all the connections Now, you know, if that
and all that stuff mocked-up. could do that at an American up and say,
installation, okay,
would be great, works. do it, And, right, in
mock it
this system
then,
carry it
to the site and actually But if we could get
the Japanese do it. resources
all that it going,
and mock the system up and get
that would be success. MALE PARTICIPANT: JOHN MONAGER: Okay. Will you guys have
something this morning within the next hour or less on the equipment that's available? MALE PARTICIPANT: I've seen sketches. I don't know, John. I
I've seen some thought
process or thought pieces. CHUCK CASTO: with is, Well, you guys work on that, Admiral Mueller, DoD,
whomever,
whomever
to try to figure out what the status INPO has offered resources as well. NEAL R.GROSS
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352
I
2 3
MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: moving that equipment

make sure that -I
Yes.
Try to get us the status of We'll try to
towards the site. 3
know that
5
6 7 8 9 1 11 12 13 1 1 1 17 18 19 2 2 22 23 2 2 was to get assemble you know, given is multi-dimensional accepting Government you know. it. So, you know, it's, obviously, a
issue here, TEPCO has
you know, asked
the Government for help, the
accepting it, But,
the whole, it
all
that dynamic,
meanwhile,
doesn't do any good if
we don't have any equipment. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: to kind of Yes. The advice we have been be positioned, in
lean forward,
case they ask. CHUCK CASTO: Right. So, if we could then,
those systems and get them over here, that would be helpful. MALE PARTICIPANT: And just to
confirm,
you want these systems physically where? CHUCK CASTO: them to the What we told them last night nearest American facility
possible,
whatever bases,
Air Force base and all that
kind of stuff on the island here of Japan. MALE PARTICIPANT: Okay.
NEAL R.GROSS
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353 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 gotten another they'll CHUCK CASTO: That would be the best case,
to have all that stuff here already. MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: meeting come You Okay. know, 10:00, we're and, going in
with them at And
hopefully, have a
around.
hopefully,
we'll
contact at the Department of Defense that we can pull them in on that meeting has got through to walk a teleconference from the
because
someone
through
strainer all the way up to the spray nozzle, you know, sizes, boom, dimensions, boom. Yes, you know, we've got a paper cartoon but someone has got to make interconnections, elbows, boom,
of the system and a list, sure everything fits
together perfectly. Yes, by the way, we've
MALE PARTICIPANT: various phone calls
from people
volunteering was COTS special
equipment, (phonetic)
including one utility, or CONEYS that (phonetic),
I think it had this
spray nozzle fuel pools.
they use to spray
down
the spent-
MALE PARTICIPANT:
What's that called? Does anybody --
We
asked for four of those last night. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: NEAL R.GROSS
Monitors. Monitors, monitor
(202) 234-4433
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354 nozzles. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE than that, though. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: this has equipment, got though, it's all Yes. But, all fits I mean, but with all someone So, the PARTICIPANT: Yes. This sounds different
great,
to make sure it
together. have got
people who know the details together. MALE PARTICIPANT:
of this
to get
Okay,
but,
mean,
should we send this piece of equipment? MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: CONEYS? Yes, CONEYS, yes. I mean I we're
I don't know.
think we've got to know whether the --
you know,
asking for about two to three miles of piping. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: eight diesel-driven pumps. got to -MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes, I wouldn't worry Okay. You know, I we asked for think they've
You know,
too much about the nozzle. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Okay. Yes. Okay. I got it.
We've got bigger
NEAL R.GROSS
355 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2
hear
--
pieces to see if
we can get first. Okay. It Got it.
MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: if we can't get miles of pipe. MALE PARTICIPANT: And readily these truck. all this
doesn't do any good
Okay. is
Got it. supposed these trailer to be
stuff For
transportable. they've got
example, be on a
pumps, or a
diesel,
to
They drive them up, You know, the
connect it, doses are
and take off. so high, they
can't be playing around with this. MALE with all this. Admiral Mueller. Okay. TRISH Holohan. Apparently, (inaudible). And you said you HOLOHAN: Yes, this is Trish PARTICIPANT: You know, and, And DoD then, can help us
they'll talk to
He's hot and ready to go.
were going to talk to them about doses this morning. Is that dose information you're trying to get from
them? CHUCK CASTO: TRISH HOLOHAN: They're doing flyovers, Okay. DOE.
You're waiting to
CHUCK
CASTO:
DOE
FERMAC
is
doing
NEAL R. GROSS
356 1 2 3 4 flyovers. TRISH HOLOHAN: CHUCK CASTO: from Tokyo up to the site. HOLOHAN: CHUCK CASTO: other site, too, Okay. We need to talk about the Okay. They're going to fly over
5TRISH 6 7
when you get done. And they're sure that they
8
9 1 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2C
21
TRISH HOLOHAN: can fly over that site? CHUCK CASTO:
But not going up there,
but
we need to find out the status of it. MALE PARTICIPANT: TRISH HOLOHAN: fly over the site? CHUCK CASTO: working on now. The FERMAC is Yes, that's what Jim Trapp's Okay. Will do.
They're sure that they can
They're going to fly from Tokyo up.
going to fly from Tokyo up to the site. TRISH HOLOHAN: Okay. And, then, they're going to
CHUCK CASTO: download that information.

here. They can't -or
They actually have to come

somewhere -they can't pump
22 23 24 25
it
through
from the aircraft
or something.
don't
understand it, the laptop, they have
but whenever they get it or whatever it is,
downloaded off the data, they
and assess to us
promised
to get it
as soon as
NEAL R.GROSS
357 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 1 1 17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 though?
can. TRISH HOLOHAN: Okay. And AREVA has those
offered up boron and monitors. over. CHUCK CASTO: Okay. Is
They're flying
That's great.
Okay.
MALE PARTICIPANT: available for dose rates? remote sites. TRISH HOLOHAN: monitoring and
there any field data
I know that there has been some fixed monitoring
there's
Well,
we
have
the
information from the JAIF. that organization? Is it
Now are you familiar with similar to the HPS? It's I the executive -think I understand
what you're talking about. You know,
(Inaudible).
we received several reports from
IAEA with the six monitoring positions on the leeward

side of the reactor. That's not what you're -is
that what you're talking about? MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes. Yes, I haven't seen any
additional reports over the last 24 hours. TRISH HOLOHAN:

Because we got
--
That
was
from
the
IAEA,
25
MALE
PARTICIPANT: NEALR.GROSS
Well,
the
original
(202) 234-4433
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358 1 2 3 report that I saw was from the IAEA. Which one are
you talking about? TRISH JAIF, HOLOHAN: I was talking about the
4
5 6 7 8
the Japanese Atomic -MALE PARTICIPANT: TRISH HOLOHAN: -Industrial Forum? yes, Yes. that Industrial Forum.
MALE PARTICIPANT: TRISH HOLOHAN: was equivalent So,
And I didn't know if
9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
to the Health Physics Society or what.
we don't know whether or not that's valid data. MALE PARTICIPANT: Well, we're here on the let you know. Okay?
ground.
If
we
hear
something,
we'll
We'll collect data and get it TRISH HOLOHAN:
to you. Okay. Great.
MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: as we know something. Okay.
Thanks.
We'll call in as soon trying to call in
I've been
every hour,
you know, once an hour. MALE PARTICIPANT: All right, Chuck.
Thanks.
We'll be here. (Laughter.) CHUCK CASTO: Yes, I know. You guys have
been there forever. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes, but

--
G02HOO@NRC.GOV,
is
that
NEAL R.GROSS
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359
I 2
3 4 5
where to get the data if
I find it? HOO.HOC@NRC.GOV. Thank you. We'll talk to you in
MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: an hour or so. MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: Okay.
E
7 8 9
Okay.
Thanks again. Thank you.
All right.
10
12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2C 21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS
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360
I
2 3 Headquarters
(CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) MALE PARTICIPANT: This is the
Operations Officer adding Chuck Casto to
the ET bridge. BRUCE: Go ahead, Chuck. Hey, Bruce, Chuck.
CHUCK CASTO: 7 8 9 1 1 12 13 14 1 16 17 18 19 20 2 22 23 2 25
(202) 234-4433
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361
1
BILL: line.
I've got Bechtel
(phonetic)
on the
2
3
We're connecting
them up with USAID,

--
and we're
going to hook these two groups together CHUCK CASTO: BILL: Yes? Hey, Bill?
6 4 7 5
1 11 12 10 13 1 1
16
17
18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Mueller is BILL: CHUCK pissed. No, I understand. I said we Thank you. talked to DoD.
CASTO:
He's got pumps and he wants to get
them up there.
He's got real-live equipment at an air
NEAL R.GROSS
362
base here in Japan. Okay?

So, you guys get on the phone with DoD and
figure out where this equipment is.

BILL: Okay.
NEAL R.GROSS
363 1 2 Ops Officer. on the bridge. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE please. PARTICIPANT: Hello? Good evening. Hold for Buchanan, (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) MALE PARTICIPANT: This is Headquarters
Josh Batkin with the Chairman coming up
MALE PARTICIPANT: BRUCE: (phonetic) on the ET. MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes, sir,
Hello? this is Bruce Boger
Okay. Hello?
Thanks.
13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 20 track. know?
MALE PARTICIPANT: BRUCE: Yes, sir.
MALE PARTICIPANT: BRUCE: Just fine.
How are you? Bruce Boger. How are you, Bruce? Is
MALE PARTICIPANT: this your f irst shift? It is
BRUCE:
my first
shift.
How did you
MALE
PARTICIPANT:
I've
been
keeping
(Laughter.) BRUCE: What can we do for you? Can you just give me
NEALR. GROSS
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364 1 2 3 4 kind of a basic rundown? Well, let me run through
what I think the current status is. Units 1, 2, to do seawater injection. BRUCE: Affirmative. I'm sorry? and 3 reactors are continuing
6 7 8 9 1 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 believe it No. hear that. spent-fuel inventory.
NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: BRUCE:
That's affirmative. Okay. Unit No. loss 3, of
NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: pool has a crack and
possible
BRUCE:
We believe that to be true still. I'm sorry, I didn't
BRUCE:
Yes,
sir. Okay. Correct.
NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: BRUCE: Correct.
And spent-fuel pool
4 has no water and possible zirc fire? BRUCE: We know that, we feel that it in has
no water and the structural integrity is NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Okay.
question. And likely
zirc interaction or not? BRUCE: We don't know that. Okay. Okay. So, we
has no water and may not have structural NEAL R.GROSS

365 1 2 integrity, but that's not confirmed? BRUCE: NRC four points Yes. Okay. earlier. There I were don't
3
4
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: were circulated
that
5
6 7
know if
you're familiar with those. BILL: Well, I'm here, Chairman. This is
Bill.
I can tell
them what they are. Okay. I mean, the
8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 yes, it's still right? bottom line,
NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: is
there any change to our thinking about
those four points at this point? MALE PARTICIPANT: valid, but we had Well, I think No. removed No. 4 is 4,
previously
NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: still there, but we
Well, still
yes.
I mean, it's
believe
valid? MALE PARTICIPANT: a reasonable basis for No. 4. Okay. Okay. Okay. Good. We still think there's
NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Thank you. That's what I needed. BILL: on the phone? NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: BILL: aligned,
20
21 22 23 24 2
Can I brief one thing while you're
Yes,
please.
I just want to make sure that we're too. I was
and I'm talking to the team now,
NEALR.GROSS
366 just had another conversation with Chuck Casto. 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 from Naval fixes. that. because The I think the Ops Center No. 1 priority now
ought to be facilitating the movement of materials. SCOTT MORRIS: BILL: I have an update.
The support thing, right? Yes. Okay. status is second to to
MALE PARTICIPANT:
NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: BILL: No. 1 got I mean (Inaudible) thing the is
being
able
deliver to the
we've
Ambassador a lot
talking of
Government. going on,
there's
interactions
and we can't fall flat and say -NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: BILL: And we Okay. need theoretical
don't
We need -NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: SCOTT MORRIS: And Yes. I can offer you an
update on that, So, So,
if
you would like. Scott Morris.
this is
I was on the phone with an individual out for That of Yakuza, Japan, who had
Reactors request
received pumps
the
the
various
diesel-driven processed the which
and
hoses.
individual
request,
and equipment was delivered to Yokota, another military facility. NEAL R.GROSS
I guess is
As of about six
367 hours 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1 15 16 17 18 19 2 21 22 23 24 2 you, very, interrupt sketchy. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: you, Okay. I'm sorry to too ago, according to this individual, on a the TEPCO truck
actually
picked up the away.
equipment
flatbed
and drove it
NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: SCOTT couple of things, or if MORRIS: though. What
Okay. I know, there's a
What we don't know is received at clear. Okay.
when
the material
actually
the site or
some staging area.
That part isn't
NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: SCOTT MORRIS:
Apparently,
there were no
Government officials escorting or with that particular TEPCO pickup. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: SCOTT MORRIS: So, Okay. our Okay. information is
but at this point that's probably
detailed for what I need to know at this pint. SCOTT Chairman, it's MORRIS: the Well, I'm offering is it to
because
Ambassador
obviously
urgent when it
comes to wanting to know the So, I wanted to best equip
status of this equipment. you with that information.
NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: SCOTT MORRIS:
Okay.
The only other thing I was
NEAL R.GROSS
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368 1 2 3 going to add is or picked up, such that the equipment that was delivered, I should say, and did not include not like even
seawater nozzles.
strainers
potentially
5 6 7 8 9 1 11 12 13 1 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 coordination your still We're
NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: SCOTT MORRIS: working with Bechtel, So,
Okay. we're on the phone. a
who
has
engineered
solution on how to rig all this stuff up and is up with ways to get all the pieces
coming
and parts so that
they all arrive at the same place and can be mocked up and put in use. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: SCOTT MORRIS: But Okay. that last bit, we're
working on facilitating. NRC CHAIRMAN was into JACZKO: we put Okay. basically and So, all Bill, our the
recommendation right now
efforts
mobilizing
getting
equipment? BILL: issue. Yes, it's really an interagency
I mean I
don't think we have to clear that it's
put all our efforts, the No. 1 priority.
but we make it
NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: BILL: monitor plant status, We still
I concur. people that can team
have
but I think the management NEAL R. GROSS
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369 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R.GROSS

needs
to be. focused on making sure that
facilitation
happens. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: I'm going to jump out. do a quick meeting here and, touch a little then, I concur. I've got to go to I'll probably be in
bit later this evening. But, again, bottom line: our four points support
we still them?
are comfortable with,
that we still
MALE PARTICIPANT: NRC CHAIRMAN Appreciate it, everybody.
Yes. Okay. Thank you.
JACZKO:
MALE PARTICIPANT: NRC CHAIRMAN soon. Bye. MALE PARTICIPANT:
Yes,
sir. Il l talk to you
JACZKO:
Bye.
370 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Headquarters (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) MALE PARTICIPANT: Officer. This is the
Operations
The Commissioners' We're ready
assistance briefing bridge is to go when you are. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: BRUCE This is BOGER: All
populated.
Okay. We're ready. right. Good evening.

--
Bruce Boger.
I've got the duty tonight One minute, John, can
1 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Officer. Officer. the roster
MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: so we
please.
go ahead and do sure we have
playback,
make
everyone. RECORDED VOICE: There are currently 23
participants in your conference. are in the conference: MALE PARTICIPANT:
The following people
Headquarters
Ops
MALE PARTICIPANT: MIKE SCHULTZ:
Yes, Mike
sir? Schultz, NMSS Duty
MIKE
FRANOVICH:
Mike
Franovich,
Commissioner Ostendorff's office. (Inaudible). N.B. BATES (phonetic): N.B. Bates
NEAL R.GROSS
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371 1 2 (phonetic), (inaudible). JOHN LUBINSKI: MICHAEL John Lubinski, Michael NRR. Marshall,
3
4 5 6 7 8 9 10 1 12 13 14 15
MARSHALL:
Chairman Jaczko's office. DON: Don (inaudible), Bill Chairman's office. Commissioner
BILL WATERS: Magwood's office. REBECCA Duty Officer. BEN: NEASE:
Watters,
Rebecca
Nease,
Region
Ben Reamer
(phonetic),
Region 3 RDO. OGC.
BRIAN HARRIS: SCOTT MOORE: AMY:
Brian Harris, Scott Moore,
FSME. Region 3. FSME.
Amy Peterson (phonetic),
CHARLES MILLER: RON JACKSON:
Charles Miller, Ron Jackson,
Region 1 Duty
12
1 18 19 2C 21 22 23 21 2
Officer.
(Inaudible). ANNETTE VIETTI-COOK: Office of the Secretary. LINDA HOWELL: ROBERT LEWIS: Linda Howell, Robert Lewis, Region 4. FSME. Office Annette Vietti-Cook,
TRIP ROTHSCHILD: of the General Counsel. BEN HART SECY (phonetic).
Trip Rothschild,
(phonetic):
Ben Hart (phonetic),
NEAL R.GROSS
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372 1 2 3 complete. BRUCE BOGER: all. 7 8 14 9 12 16 1 12 13 14 1 This is Bruce Boger. All right. Good evening, TED CASSELMAN (phonetic): Ted Casselman,
(phonetic) Commissioner Svinicki's office. RECORDED VOICE: Roster playback is
I've got the ET Director's
position this evening. I'm going status of activities in With things are about afternoon. injected described unknown. For Unit 2, place. reduce seawater injection is taking and as The to give a brief Japan. to Unit 1, I will say that this being update on the
respect
the same as Unit 1 still
they were has cooling.
earlier
seawater
reported
stable
Containment pool level is
functional.
Spent-fuel
16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
is containment
Secondary containment and they cut a hole to the likelihood of hydrogen gas buildup.
Primary containment Unit 3,
intact. seawater being injected. functional. Primary
described as
Spent-fuel pool
possibly drained.
Some evidence of steam. spent-fuel pool appears to be, doubt.
For Unit 4,
likely dry with the structural integrity in Unit 5, spent-fuel pool is NEAL R. GROSS
reported to be
373 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 like little hazards to get been in Their direction direction reported to heating up. They have AC power available from a
diesel generator. The same for Unit 6. be heating up, but The spent fuel pool they have AC power
available through a diesel generator. And the general is currently talking points: the west the wind with that at
from
expected
to continue until
the weekend, may change.
which time a front moves through and it
People continue to provide support.
We've
contact with Chuck Casto and the team there. priorities flowing. are to They've continue had some to get the
information with
interactions that they're
the Japanese
authorities
and feel
getting better information at this time. They would to acknowledge the site, that they would just a
closer
so perhaps
closer information, that might present
but they're mindful of the to themselves within the
radiation levels to get to the site EOC. They would acknowledge, also, that the
licensee or TEPCO is
somewhat overwhelmed.
People had
left the site earlier, but they have been supplemented with additional people now. Our understanding is they
had about 50 before and maybe up to about 100 now. NEAL R.GROSS
(202) 234-4433
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374 1 2 3 4 comment. MIKE FRANOVICH: BRUCE BOGER: 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 1 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 on that. Our priority now, frankly, has shifted Unit 2. Hey, Bruce? Can I answer any questions for you? Bill Ruan (phonetic) has an additional
Yes? This is Mike Franovich.
MIKE FRANOVICH:
I've got a couple of questions for you, On unit status, the containment intact. reports now, TEPCO
actually. that we have several
Unit 2 says
And I've seen that in
but I thought I had heard last night that that they had a breach in the toris
verified itself
(phonetic) They went
from back a couple of days earlier. that. That's what
back and had verified
was being reported out of NISA. And so, I'm wondering about the status on integrity
Have we verified that containment
with the folks on the ground? BRUCE BOGER: Don't believe so. We'll get back to you
MALE PARTICIPANT:
from doing status to getting equipment to Fukushima. MIKE FRANOVICH: fully appreciate that. I recognize that, and I
I was in
there earlier today, there.
and I realize what's going on in NEAL R.GROSS
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375 1 2 3 4 But I do want to go down this list sure we're getting what seems to be a dated information. I want to make little it's to make bit of still
sure
correct or still
current. At
On Unit 3, we talked about some doses. the site post, 7 8 9 1 11 12 13 14 15 1 1 18 19 20 2 22 23 2 25 believe the 60 MR per hour, is that still The
current? current
FEMALE
PARTICIPANT:
information that we have been able to get and verify, yes. MIKE FRANOVICH: Okay. Again, at the NISA
press conference last night or yesterday morning their time, they were talking about a spike which is but that going
much higher than that,
they had been coming
down ever since that spike, based on Unit 3 events the previous day. And I understand the status on Unit 4. For Unit 5, reactor is there's a note in here that we defueled. And there was an
earlier report that led me to believe that the reactor was not totally defueled, from NISA that meter. So, defueled on 5? FEMALE PARTICIPANT: NEAL R.GROSS
and another report yesterday
the water had dropped about a half a
is
this correct,
that
the reactor
is
Somebody from the RST
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376
I
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
is verifying that. MIKE FRANOVICH: And, thing, and, Bill, I'll Okay.
why don't you go through your come back and ask my other
then,
questions? BILL: key here is Okay. As everybody here knows, the
to supply the pumping system that was --
we had kind of a cartoon about what that system looks like. The steps, of course, is we have to
finalize the list, get the suppliers to take all the equipment, collect it in a central location, make sure do a pre-assembly of
we've got the engineering done, the equipment, and operate it. to accomplish. Right now, we know then move it So,
to the site, assembly it,
those are the steps that we have
that
the
equipment left an
left, that some equipment,

air base right now
---
namely,
five pumps,
and
the name of the air base
escapes me
left the air base about six o'clock this
morning local time.
It's
196 miles to Fukushima. I guess it's
So,
they've been on the road.
the Defense It So, is the
Forces of Japan are delivering that equipment. not the complete list. valves, the strainers, It's just the pumps.
those things are not part of
NEAL R.GROSS
377
1 2 3 4 Reactors, In fact, can this list. We who is have been us in contact with this this, so Naval effort. see if we can
helping
coordinate
they're going to try to locate locate where this truck is,
they 6 7
actually locate the equipment. Meanwhile, Company has is taken doing our we have the Bechtel Engineering drawing, taken the work equipment and the So,
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 1 17 18 19 2 21 22 23 24 25
list
and
the
engineering
procurement work to get this stuff to the site. we're working with them to get that now, working on this project, So, right now. chaotic, done. The key policy issue is that remains I So, and
they're
this problem, as we speak.
that's kind of where everything stands what maybe an hour ago was a little
think we've got a plan on how to get this
is,
passed on from John Monager,
that the Japanese have
asked for installers and operators for this equipment. Now that in, would be installers and operators of
equipment
you know,
a radiation area and possibly So, we don't have anybody install and operate
even a high radiation area. identified this system. So, right now
that would
that's a problem that we
face
as we
NEAL R.GROSS
378 1 2 speak. You know, do we get the military? Do we ask
our military to do it? the Japanese and tell and you operate it."? worked out.
Can we go back to TEPCO and to them, These "We'll install things still the system need to be something
3
4
5
6 7
And I would argue that that's the near-term.
we need to work out in
MALE PARTICIPANT: BILL: in So,
Thank you, Bill.
8 9
10 11 12 13 14 1 1 17 18 .19 2 21 22 23 24 2 folks,
any help that you can give me
identifying the right people to talk to to get this
problem resolved would be great. MALE PARTICIPANT: BILL: somebody. So, You maybe know, Okay. the government we need to liaison get this
problem resolved. So, MALE anything to add? There is some that's kind of where we sit. PARTICIPANT: Okay. So, Bruce,
FEMALE PARTICIPANT:
Yes, We also had a
K>
call from the U.S. (phonetic) EOC
Postal Service. information
We gave them CBC's
NEAL R.GROSS
379
2 3 4
And so, guidance. contact
they wanted to know if We gave them the
there was any federal State information to
the State and get somebody out
there quickly
5
6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 2 2 calls NARAC, So, that information. Also, not as we're getting information like to, from we gave them
rapidly as we would
because,
apparently, they
we sent them information this morning, and the emails. So, we resent again this
deleted
afternoon.
So,
we are hoping to get that information
as soon as we can. Also, there's an aerial flyover by DOE
over the sight at nine o'clock, yes. MALE PARTICIPANT:
eight o'clock tonight,
Eight o'clock tonight,
nine o'clock tomorrow their time. FEMALE PARTICIPANT: And But we are still that's all Local time, yes. we have.
the information
waiting to hear back from NARAC. Thanks, (inaudible).
MALE PARTICIPANT: Mark, MARK: and questions
anything from (inaudible)? No, we're just getting the press a lot of
regarding
release
that
NEAL R. GROSS
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380
1
2 3 4
went out.
FEMALE PARTICIPANT: Yes, we developed
Q&As for that press release. (Inaudible.) FEMALE (inaudible, possibly, MALE (inaudible). BRUCE BOGER: Go ahead, Mike. that PARTICIPANT: "finish them"). Bruce, Mike Yes, we did
7 8 9 1 11 12 13 1 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
PARTICIPANT:
MIKE FRANOVICH:
Those calculations
are posted that are linked to a recent statement don't seem to make any sense because the dose from a four-
unit reactor release on the spreadsheet or on the PDF file that is attached release is less than any it than from those of indication a of
one-reactor differences in reactor release.
without So,
assumptions.. is
looks like a onea four-reactor
release So, it
greater
doesn't seem to make any sense. PARTICIPANT: Well, we did the and
FEMALE
four-reactor release assuming certain assumptions, I don't have the press release with me. on the press release, the assumptions
But we put it that we made.
And one was run on the 15th. Do you have the press release? MALE PARTICIPANT: NEAL R.GROSS
don't
have
the
(202) 234-4433
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381 1 (inaudible). FEMALE PARTICIPANT: Okay. One was done We did the knowing the
2 3
on the 15th and one was done on the 16th. one-reactor release on the 15th,
assumptions that we had then, 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 1 16 17 18 19 2 2 22 23 24 2 questions, it is and get it. MIKE FRANOVICH:
that we did on the 16th
and the reactor release

-we ran it as a
was with
four-reactor, reactors,
assumed
one
reactor
in
the
four
and then,
the additional reactor didn't add
anything to it. So, if you need more information, I can go
I think my point is
that
confusing to the public because it release is
comes across
as a one-reactor reactor release.
more severe than a four-
FEMALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT:
Okay. We're getting a lot of That's the
people asking for the raw data.
kind of questions that we're getting. FEMALE PARTICIPANT: Yes, they were based four-
on system condition estimates for a hypothetical reactor release, but we took into it
the assumptions
that not all reactors are releasing at the same time. So, I think we have the answers and the Q&As that
clarify that. NEAL R. GROSS

382 1 MALE PARTICIPANT: Other questions? 3 again. I want Bill was just At to go back for a minute to what on MIKE FRANOVICH: This is Mike Franovich Thanks, Trish.
(inaudible, one time,
possibly there was
"saying")
strategies. about,
some discussion
instead of water,
using sand for the two units Is that stillpart of
that appear to have dry pools. 1 1i 12 13 14 15 1

1
the approach? MALE PARTICIPANT: discussion whether or not I know it's they add sand still or under water. if So
There's pros and cons of both. you put that, sand on it, that it
There's a concern, will still be hot.
the water would be a good thing to keep going, down.

do you know
--
just to cool it
Bill,
18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 is, team, okay,
BILL:
The onsite team,
the NRC's onsite
has recommended it's
water that should go
on these spent-fuel pools. MIKE FRANOVICH: for Chuck Casto, with the Okay. My next question I know this Tokyo
where are they embedded? folks, or they Is were
they're morning,
TEPCO
but where is
that located?
that in
or closer in toward the site? NEAL R. GROSS

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(202) 234-4433
383
1
2 3 still 5 6 7 8 9 1i 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
25
MALE still in Tokyo. MIKE
PARTICIPANT:
Right
now,
they're
FRANOVICH:
Tokyo?
Okay.
And we
have Jim and Tony with NISA? MALE PARTICIPANT: This morning -they
were together phone call, Tony were.
with us just a little
while ago on the where Jim and
but that's where they were,
MIKE FRANOVICH: here, its
And,
then,
the last item had increased these worse
yesterday the Japanese Government limit on I worker dose here for
conditions. R. of
had heard they had bumped it
up to 25 And part we're that about
Are they considering raising that again? this is driven with or is by the Are some strategies we more
that to
discussing limitation
them. there
working
discussion
perhaps going beyond that limit? MALE PARTICIPANT: not on the site, right? FEMALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: them embedded with TEPCO is statement.
embedded,
Well,
the NRC staff is the site, as we
has not approached
speak,
Right. And by the way, to call
probably not an accurate talking

clarify
They
have
been
let's
to
TEPCO.
But
my
my picture --
terms here --
NEAL R. GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross$com
(202) 234-4433
384 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 picture of put them in "embedded" means I put one or two people, the middle that of the organization So, and is I
they not
work as part of what's happening.
organization.
that
MIKE FRANOVICH: I'm talking about isn't Yes, they're, I guess,
Okay.
The dose part that I appreciate that.

--
so much --
consulting each other Yes. -might be
MALE PARTICIPANT: MIKE FRANOVICH:
more
gracious way to characterize it.
16
17 18 19
KS>
20
21 22 23 24 25 FEMALE PARTICIPANT: Yes.
NEAL R.GROSS
385
Right. As a matter of fact,
NEAL R. GROSS
386 FEMALE 2 3 PARTICIPANT: With the Chairman.
We did that earlier tonight. MIKE FRANOVICH: You did? Yes. Okay, I'll stop Okay.
FEMALE PARTICIPANT: 5 now. 7 TRISH additional just got in HOLOHAN: MIKE FRANOVICH:
Got it.
We
just
got
in
the we
8
9 1 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 1 19 2 21 22 23 2 2
information --
this is
Trish Holohan --
the additional information from NARAC that So, we're analyzing it now. 50
we've requested.
We had asked miles,
them to do a run beyond
and we also requested them to see if that involved projections to
they were the West
doing any runs
Coast of the U.S. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Other questions? This is (inaudible), I heard
and I have a couple of things. on the news
One of them is
that TEPCO said that they were very near
to establishing another power line into the facility. Do you have any information on that? MALE PARTICIPANT: We've heard that also. And that,
We asked Chuck that specifically earlier today. they but don't have any additional skeptical information whether on
they were somewhat
that would,
how much that would help,
because of the condition of
NEAL R.GROSS
387 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 like question is, attack some of the breakers and things like that that might
have to be operated manually, to them is quite unknown. So,
and the ability to get
he was leaning more toward the plan of and that's figure out
that has been outlined,
another way to get water in MALE we
there. Okay. a report Now on my the next last
PARTICIPANT: had received
conference call that there had been five lethal doses. Do we have any information on possible radiation
fatalities? MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: (No response.) MALE to do is call. that So, morning PARTICIPANT: Okay. time What for have I would None in Okay, Okay. Other questions? here.
thanks.
suggest It
a different out at to
tomorrow several in the call eight 7:30
morning's phone
turns up
that we eight
calls
line
o'clock a
morning. tomorrow o'clock
I'm
going
propose stick please
7:30 the at
and,
then, So,
with
tomorrow night.
join us
tomorrow morning. MALE PARTICIPANT: Works for me.
NEAL R.GROSS
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388 1 2 3 4 MALE PARTICIPANT: BRUCE BOGER: Okay. Okay. Thanks, Thank you, all. Bruce.
MALE PARTICIPANT: BRUCE BOGER:
You're welcome.
5 6
7 8
19
iC 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2C 21 22 23 24 2E
NEAL R.GROSS
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389 1 2 3 Headquarters (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) MALE PARTICIPANT: Officer. Th. is Joh:n is Monager the is
Operations
coming up on the bridge. FEMALE PARTICIPANT: 6 7 8 4 9 JOHN MONAGER: Hey, We're r eady. is this t Iarty?
FEMALE PARTICIPANT: BRUCE (inaudible). JOHN MONAGER; BRUCE BOGER: JOHN MONAGER: a heads-up, now are over Hey, BOGER:
No. This is Bru ce and
5
1 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23
how you doing?
(Inaudible). We wanted to give you guys Chuck and Tony the equivalent Room. They
no action, but a heads-up. at the Conti, which is
down of
here
the White
House
Situation
asked them to come down,
such that they could show us And what they that the spentthe
a video of the Unit 4 spent-fuel pool. are going to show us, fuel pool has water, we believe, has is
had water,
potentially
entire time. We think the reason they're doing that is because or maybe I guess of maybe statements the Chairman's hearing the NRC has made yesterday
testimony
24 25
saying that Unit 4 the spent-fuel pool was dry. So, Chuck hasn't seen the video yet, but
NEAL R.GROSS
(202) 234-4433
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390 1 2 3 4 we wanted to give you guys a heads-up in case there is
any clarifications or corrections we need to do. Did that make sense? MALE PARTICIPANT:
6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 1 1 1 18 19 2 21 22 23 24 25 run it here -perspective.
JOHN MONAGER:
Right,
right. it is good news.
MALE PARTICIPANT: JOHN MONAGER: there's water in there.
Well,
I mean it's
good news that
MALE PARTICIPANT:
That's all right.
Bad
JOHN MONAGER:
Yes.
MALE PARTICIPANT:
JOHN MONAGER: Well, down now; but I
Right,
right. and we've got to down back has been Unit 1
the other thing -well,
we've got to run it the status that
believe
reported for the past, you know, 24-48 hours is and 2, 4, the spent-fuel pools are boiling;
Units 3 and zirc/water
the spent-fuel you know, So,
pools are going through
reaction,
essentially, at the bottom.
I'm not sure where we got that summary I know we were under the belief wall had been blown out, but
for the four units. that, Unit 4, the
NEAL R.GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 . o WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
391 1 2 3 John. 5 McIntyre. 7 8 9 1 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 2 2 is yet, but if now. video? JOHN MONAGER: Chuck is down at the Conti anytime now. What time are you all going to see that DAVE MCINTYRE: John, this is Dave regardless of that, someone else would have had to
tell us about Units 1, 2,
and 3. A couple of questions,
MALE PARTICIPANT:
He should be seeing it,
you know,
I would imagine we would hear back from him within the hour. DAVE McINTYRE: JOHN MONAGER: MALE Okay, Okay. John, there were some thank you.
PARTICIPANT:
other questions related to whether you guys are still trying to get to the site EOC. JOHN MONAGER: morning with NISA, and NISA, which to Yes, is there's a meeting this like the Japanese request NRC, the
we're
going
ask,
broach,
notion of being embedded in
the EOC. Okay. is yet. And I don't know
MALE PARTICIPANT: you've figured out where it JOHN MONAGER: we've been No.
We don't know where it or it's one of our
asking,
NEALR. GROSS
392 things to be asked. The other meeting we're which is having this
morning at 10 o'clock our time, o'clock your guys' time, I
probably nine with Steve
just
chatted
Bloom about it.
We're going to be meeting with TEPCO and I'm minimum,
to discuss the spent-fuel pool cooling system, going to broach in the subject about, as if a
bringing
the RST via teleconference,
not the ET
back there. MALE PARTICIPANT: Right, and the RST is
preparing for that.
We got word of that. Okay. Back to to the EOC, I and
JOHN MONAGER: MALE guess there was
PARTICIPANT:
a concern related
the levels
what we would subject our folks to. JOHN MONAGER: guess my thoughts, emergency response. it's -Twenty-five. 25 rem limit or what, Right, right. You know, I
we would follow NRC guidelines for You know, I guess, it's what?
I'm not sure if
MALE PARTICIPANT: JOHN MONAGER: but we would follow -here. --
you know, we have dosimetry out et cetera. Yes, yes. You know,
We have KI out here,
MALE PARTICIPANT: JOHN MONAGER: So,
Tim called.
NEAL R. GROSS
393 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 you know, dose, maybe putting maybe mixed I is that he gave us a briefing on that yesterday. MALE PARTICIPANT: we're in the position I don't think the sense of making the heroic
efforts. JOHN MONAGER: Right, right. it's (inaudible,
MALE PARTICIPANT: possibly 'Bill") It (inaudible).
John,
sounds like to me it
would preclude us
from assembling and operating this equipment. JOHN MONAGER: thoughts thought Oh, oh, so, yes, you there was asked the the NRC
there. you were
When
question, employees
thinking
and potentially going up the federal or installing
to the EOF or the the U.S. and citizens that
EOC exposure versus or federal
government
operating
spent-fuel pool cooling system. MALE PARTICIPANT: That's correct. I mean
that's really the basis for the question. JOHN MONAGER: Yes, yes. Well, I mean,
there's the dose issue, but,
even absent the So,
I mean you have those explosions out there. someone U.S. is not getting in to the think dosed, but if for
you're those
citizens you've got
potential about
explosions, too.
that
aspect,
NEALR.GROSS
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394 1 2 3 4 raise 6 7 it. TEPCO, MALE PARTICIPANT: So, when you talked to --
did you raise this whole notion of whether
their need to assemble and operate this equipment? JOHN I MONAGER: think they Yes. haven't We'll asked definitely for the
equipment is
or the personnel support yet.
The question
whether they'll raise it. I guess my question for you guys is, if
9 1 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 21 22 23 24 25
they raise the personnel support, say no or what? MALE PARTICIPANT: little more information. there. JOHN MONAGER: MALE had a name, report Yokota Right. We
would we definitely
Well,
let us give you a some of the
believe
equipment is
PARTICIPANT: base
We believe, -and the
well, air from
we base the
from an air Air Base --
people,
soldiers
Defense Forces of Japan at 0600 picked up five pumps from that air base. JOHN MONAGER: Right. And are driving them on
MALE PARTICIPANT: the 196 miles to Fukushima. JOHN MONAGER: the difficulty is, if
Right.
I'll
tell you that
those guys show up at the plant, it or not. You know, there's
whether they'll accept
NEAL R.GROSS
(202) 234-4433
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395 1 2 3 4 this whole notion out there that they haven't asked
for help yet.
They turned down a fire truck because
of some issues already. MALE PARTICIPANT: JOHN MONAGER: Yes, Yes. yes. That was true. All right.
6 7
12 12 13 1 1 16 17 18 19 20 2 22 23 24 25 -let's I that's in JOHN MONAGER: Okay. All right. So,
one of the emails out there? MALE PARTICIPANT: see if No, I talked to a Major It's Yokota Air a Major -well,
I can get his name.
Base. Metudac
talked to a Major on the air base, (phonetic). He said that soldiers

--
they're really not called "soldiers" from the Defense Forces of Japan
but personnel up that
picked
equipment,
the five pumps,
at 0600 today at your time
today and are driving it
to Fukushima.
NEAL R.GROSS
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396
1 2
3
4
7 8 9 1 -looking for
JOHN MONAGER: MALE is
Right,
right. And so, what we're they're
PARTICIPANT: we need to
find
out
where
taking this equipment, actually drawing. lading or Bechtel is -we have
a staging area, Bechtel has
so that when we our cartoon of So,

--
1i
12 13 14 1 1 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
got
They're engineering -the specifications
they have the bill
from the air base.
engineering the rest of the equipment JOHN MONAGER: Okay. -you know,
MALE PARTICIPANT: to be done. We're also in is the working in air base parallel can
what needs
parallel,
I think Jim Trapp that two
to see what other things and we've got these
supply,
different supply streams working to get this stuff up there. JOHN MONAGER: MALE happen, then, is That's good. But to know, what you needs know, to if
PARTICIPANT: we need
NEAL R. GROSS
397 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 MALE PARTICIPANT: Right. o'clock information, see if somebody from TEPCO, when you talk to them, where is
this equipment going to be? We are also working with Naval Reactors to they can contact these guys en route, such that
we know where they are going to have this equipment, the staging area for it. So, it if you can help us with that
would be great. Yes, that will be which is the 10
JOHN MONAGER: call,
the 10 o'clock meeting,
about
20 minutes from now. guys into that meeting.
We're going to try to pull you
FEMALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT:
Okay. Yes. Right. Right.
NEAL R. GROSS
398 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 it's going JOHN MONAGER: My thought is the stuff
should be pretty basic. MALE PARTICIPANT: Well, here's our plan: The stuff is
to go to a staging area. It's well, at
going to be assembled. could have Americans, basic equipment, we
that staging area we because it help is
just basic,
could have Americans you know,
to go
assemble it
with the --
at the staging area
with the Japanese that are actually going to assemble it at the site. So, the view is you assemble it. right? You have
some sort of assemble procedure, JOHN MONAGER: Right.
MALE PARTICIPANT:
The Japanese
can write
their own assembly procedure and operating procedure. You disassemble it. take it to the site. The Japanese then take it. They reassemble it They
and they
operate it. JOHN MONAGER: That's sounds perfect. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: where the staging area is. JOHN MONAGER: Yes, we're going to find Yes. So, we have to find out Yes, that sounds perfect.
out the staging area and some of these other issues. NEAL R. GROSS
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399
1 2 3 4 fields. Now, Oh, I'm sorry, the other I'm drawing a blank. issue was the high rad
5
6 7
8 9 10 11 12 13 14 1 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 JOHN MONAGER: agreement here. Now the thing for these pumps, et cetera. you know, that came to my mind was, I think we re in complete
you've got multiple pumps,
The notion was to have them all ready on or whatever, They don't the a
the back of flatbed trucks or trailers, so they can just be driven in have the time or to have the exposure, to put it and parked.
they can't afford on a forklift
exposure
going
couple miles per hour, beach. with They have the thing in,
you know,
a mile down to the trailer
to have it unhook it,
on a truck or if it's
on a trailer,
and get out. NEAL R.GROSS

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(202) 234-4433
400 MALE 2 3 4 PARTICIPANT: So, there is a dose-
rate issue when you bring this stuff in? JOHN dose-rate issue. MALE PARTICIPANT: Okay. It changes all the time, 20 MONAGER: There is an incredible
6 7
JOHN MONAGER:
but some of the areas they were talking, R per hour.
you know,
9 1 11 12 13 1 15 16 17 18 19
20 you know,
MALE PARTICIPANT:
Yes.
We've got Bechtel
that's doing the remainder of the engineering on this. JOHN MONAGER: MALE that they Right. So, is we'll really make a sure
PARTICIPANT: that this
understand
design
requirement. JOHN MONAGER:

whether you go --
Yes.
The other
thing is,
and I'm not a pipe guy --
whether you go but if you
with a go with
flexible pipe or a hard pipe, hard pipe and flanges and
connections,
you're really going to get whacked on the
dose versus some type of --
21 22 23 24 25 You know,
MALE PARTICIPANT: like I said,
Yes,
I understand that. the engineers
the engineers,
at Bechtel are working this problem as we speak. JOHN MONAGER: All right. We are going to
the TEPCO meeting and we're really going to try hard
NEAL R.GROSS
401 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22
to get you in in 20 minutes.

MALE PARTICIPANT: JOHN MONAGER: Bye-bye. Okay. Thank you. Thank you.
All right.
23 24
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402 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 (phonetic) not that? I reviewed the video. Tony and Brook it's Operations bridge. FEMALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: A couple of Hey, We're here, Chuck. hey, guys. One, a couple of (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) MALE PARTICIPANT: Chuck This Casto is Headquarters up on the
Officer.
coming
things.
times this morning, into the Ops Center.
we have gotten busy signals going So, I don't know if we need to
work on more lines or a sneak line or a dedicated line or something, you. MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: If Okay. you guys would work on so that we can get straight through to
and I reviewed You're to do a
the video. talking
You know, a at
very clear. trying
about
helicopter once in a You
that's field.
lot
of
things
And they tried to scan all
four units.
have to look through a window.
And they claim there's pool.
a reflection of water on the Unit 4 spent-fuel It's not clear.
I mean you really can't see anything. there. You don't know if it's
There's
something
steel or water.
They claim it's NEALR. GROSS
a reflection.
403 1 2 3 4 there's Now we do know that it's steaming. Now
steam coming out of the side of the building So, it is steamy as a
where the spent-fuel pool is. minimum.
5
6 7 8 9 1 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 o'clock p.m.,
I guess we need to know -- and that was at

five o'clock yesterday. MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: how long does it So, At Unit 4? I guess we need to know,
take to steam down a spent-fuel pool? Five o'clock a.m. or
FEMALE PARTICIPANT: p.m. yesterday, Chuck? CHUCK CASTO: Sorry.
The way I
got
it
was
five
Japanese Standard Time. FEMALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: So, it's Okay. been about 14 hours
ago or something like that. Clearly, greater rate. try some Unit 3 is steaming at a much
Their strategy, helicopter and they're drops, about
they are continuing to which to, are in highly some
ineffective, future,
sometime
they want to get some crowd control up there with in
tanks and
try to shoot water tanks, which is,
some crowd control that's not
you know,
my judgment,
very effective. You've got debris everywhere. The
NEALR.GROSS
404 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 21 22 23 24 25 fix, and so is building has had an explosion. see in there, for the debris. I mean you can hardly To think that you're there and of a
going to shoot a crowd control cannon up in have some effective cooling of a zirc, spent-fuel pool, And I don't know if either way,
you know,
that's going to work. a temporary fix,
that's
a helicopter drop.
I mean you can do that
for a while, enough know,
but you're not going to be able to drop into that spent-fuel I guess, pool. You
efficiently
you can keep doing that,
but that's not
a long-term fix. So, we still need to work on the permanent whatever you call it,
something quasi-permanent,
of a hard pipe system in MALE working that angle.
there from the exterior. Okay. And we're
PARTICIPANT:
The hard pipe system Yes. Yes, I know. There's
CHUCK CASTO: parallel paths, Defense about
and I've got to go see the Minister of that and other issues. And, then, we
have an all-Government bunch of other stuff.
briefing here at
10:30,
and a
There's all kinds of briefings
and meetings and huddles. MALE PARTICIPANT: So, I suppose you're
not available for "60 Minutes" yet? CHUCK CASTO: No.
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405 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 Unit 4. reflection, water it's in

working --
MALE Dude. Eliot
PARTICIPANT: is fending
Hey, off
Chuck, news;
come
on,
the
you're
(inaudible, possibly "bothered") by name. CHUCK CASTO: that. Where was I going? on that. MALE PARTICIPANT: No, no, we're You guys distracted me I don't care about any of
CHUCK CASTO:
The Chairman,
you know,
we
need to probably let Bill and the Chairman know that on yesterday we were going by we thought the explosion, 4 spent-fuel that, with
there was structural damage to the Unit pool. We don't really know if there's
any integrity in really show if
that pool or not.
The video doesn't
there's integrity. some what they claim is some
There's
but we can't tell. of five
We knew there is o'clock yesterday
there as
because
steaming. So, I think the right call is still on
And Unit 3 is
steaming even worse.
I think
24
-NEAL R.GROSS
406 1
3 4
5
6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 question. meeting, special MALE PARTICIPANT: of that video, do you? CASTO: They claim that it's a You don't have a copy
CHUCK video file
that takes a special video player software, and the file's too large
and all this stuff, to give to us.
Imagine that. Yes. they're not going to
MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: let us have that video. know, that thing gets
Look,
You know, out. You
the next thing you know, they're not
interested in sharing that thing with us right now. MALE PARTICIPANT: No, no, I was just
asking to complete. CHUCK CASTO: We asked Yes. and So, i I mean that was a good it was asked in the
that,
and they said no. "Hey; if you look" Yes.
we do what we can do. right?--
They say,
. NEAL R.GROSS
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407 I 2 3 4 5j 6 7 8 9 10 1i 12 13 1 1 1 1 1 19 2 2 22 23 24 2 away, some question, the video fuel pool? design tell that with me, and he looked at it. What's your assessment of it? I mean it's as the helicopter is flying by. Yes. on the facility but I couldn't just a split-second shot CHUCK CASTO: = .is from DOE,
He was standing there
a thing.
CHUCK CASTO:
I'm not the expert NRC folks are here,
the
BILL:
Do we know it's
the Unit 4 spent-
Are we certain that that's the case? CHUCK Bill. from CASTO: Because Conti, Well, that's a good
the guy that was showing us from the Government, said,
"TEPCO told us this is So,
where
the spent-fuel
pool is."
we don't even know that that's the damned spent-
fuel pool that we was looking at. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: CHUCK CASTO: feet away, Chuck, Chuck
--
All we can tell is
some feet out of
there was steam coming "Well, yeah,
the building.
And they said,
that's not is, the but the
right where we think the spent-fuel pool wind's blowing really hard today and
wind's
blowing the steam away from the spent-fuel pool." NEAL R. GROSS
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408 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 11 1 13 14 15 16
17
NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: CHUCK CASTO: what the hell we looked at. MALE PARTICIPANT: So,
Chuck? we really don't know
Chuck,
think
the
Chairman's trying to join the bridge. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO:

CHUCK CASTO:
Chuck?
You've got --

CHUCK CASTO: --
Chuck?
had an
a building that's
explosion and has debris everywhere, to look at it with a helicopter
and you're trying flying by in there.
that's
split-seconds.
You can't tell anything in
You know, a reflection,
they claim there's a glimmer of it's steaming. unit 3 is
but, you know,
steaming even harder. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO:

CHUCK CASTO:
Chuck?
that -I'm
They're methods
18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
sorry,
Mr.
Chairman. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Chuck, again, just
can you tell is no water in
me the source of your belief the No. (sic) fuel pool? Well, that's
that there
CHUCK just talking
CASTO:
what
we were us
about.
Yesterday
they
showed
snapshots,
and it
looked like to our team members that the spent-fuel
there was not a structural integrity in NEAL R. GROSS

VI' 2A_AA2O
WA2MIF.T("AN
fl Cn 9r.
-?flr. 1
mw npnlrnrnqQ rnm
409
pool for Unit 4. 2 NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: the -CHUCK CASTO: the Japanese looked, 7 8 9 1 1 12 13 14 1 1 17 1 19 2 21 22 23 24 2 would guess, four units, after Government I'm sorry. showed us it TEPCO and Conti, snapshots, looked and like it the And again, they are
3
4
the explosion,
and
pool had lost structural
integrity of the snapshots. Today they're is
Those were outer walls of the building. saying, not still well,
the pool doesn't have an outer wall, with the outer wall, so they
associated be intact.
could
However, and it's
they
flew
helicopter
by
the
really inconclusive
as you look
at the video, which they showed us, with us, there said, it for whatever reasons. looks is like a reflection that
but won't share it "Look, And we And the
And they say, in there." pool?" us
"Well,
the spent-fuel
guy says,
"Where that's where they tell
the spent-
fuel pool is,
and we think that's a water reflection." Off is to the side about 15 or 20 feet, I So,
steam coming out of the building.
you would assume that that's the spent-fuel pool with some amount of water in 14 hours ago. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: NEAL R.GROSS
it,
left in
it.
But that was
Uh-hum.
So,
do you
(2.2 214-4433
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410 1
2 3 4 there is There 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 which it's at know, don't is have any change in pool, of water in CHUCK your view of the pool? CASTO: I would It say, with steam, the condition of the
some water in some water
the pool. in the
may not be empty. but that was 14
pool,
hours ago. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: CHUCK there was know how 14 CASTO: some much hours in So, of was Okay. we don't in know. it, You but we it's you
amount water ago,
water in it
because tell
steaming,
but
today we can't
how much water is NRC there's water in
that pool. JACZKO: So, do you think
CHAIRMAN
the pool right now? That's what I was asking the would take a lot
CHUCK CASTO: Reactor Safety Team. to steam-down
Tell me how long it you know, but
the pool,
there's
you don't know. much water is in
You don't know the steaming rate, how there. There's a lot. let's say take
You know, you could assume that, the top at the fuel.
How long would it
to steam-down to the bottom of the fuel? hours do you have there?
And how many
Their recovery methods are to try, again, they've, I think, failed once, to drop water
NEAL R.GROSS
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411 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21
22
from a helicopter. to clear the road,
The other is so that they
that they're trying can bring in some
crowd control tanks, these crowd
you know, In
like you see in our opinion,
a riot, are a
controls.
those
highly-inefficient methods of trying to get water in spent-fuel pool, an especially in a building that's
had
explosion and has damage
everywhere.
And we are
not even sure that that pump has enough head to pump up to the top of that building. a good try. You should do it So, you know, but that's not an
maybe,
effective or a long-term solution. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: So, at this point, Is that
you no longer believe that the pool is what I'm hearing? CHUCK o'clock yesterday, CASTO: I would
dry?
say,
as
of it.
five
the pool had some water in Okay.
NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: publicly the pool is dry. Yes,
Now I've said
CHUCK CASTO: NRC CHAIRMAN
I know that. Do you think that
JACZKO:
that's inaccurate?
CHUCK CASTO: We can
--
it's
so
23
24
inconclusive,
mean
--
we
really
can't
tell,
either
way.
NRC
CHAIRMAN
JACZKO:
Well,
so
it's
NEALR.GROSS
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www.nealrtjross.com
412 1 2 3 4 inaccurate you're tell me. CHUCK CASTO: inaccurate to say it's dry. Okay. today, in it with the at five I would say it's probably for me It's to say okay it's if dry? that's Is the that case; what just
saying?
6
7 8 9 10 Okay. 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 We have video, that
NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: CHUCK CASTO: they had had It
appears
some water
o'clock yesterday or it
wouldn't be steaming. Okay. Okay. Okay.
Anything else? Did we get Marty? MALE PARTICIPANT: Marty's here, yes. Marty, did you want
NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: to say something on the call? MARTY VIRGILIO: one dose limit No, that
but I agree with you. doesn't discriminate
between age or gender. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MARTY VIRGILIO: Okay. saidElE
That
6-,-
NEAL R.GROSS
(202) 234-4433
413
2
3 4
6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 So, NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: we're still comfortable -Well, tell okay. Good.
well,
me which of
the four points we're still CHUCK answer that or

--
comfortable with. Marty, are you going to
CASTO:
NEAL R.GROSS
414 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 11 12 13 14 1 16 17 18 19 2 21 22 23 24 2 Monager was dry? MARTY VIRGILIO: yesterday, and they That's what he told John asked John, given a dry source of it? MARTY VIRGILIO: Yes. TEPCO said the pool know, but know, dry. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: they speak Right, right. No, I our necessarily dry? MARTY VIRGILIO: Well, speak that's not, you being 1. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: good with Okay. that But we're not the pool is all of them. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MARTY VIRGILIO: Okay. good with No. MARTY VIRGILIO: CHUCK CASTO: Yes.
I think here we're good with
I'm still
the statement
four points don't
to the pool
to my credibility.
That's
the
problem. MARTY VIRGILIO: Yes, It but think about
where that statement came from. John Monager yesterday. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO:
came from TEPCO to
Okay,
that's
the
NEAL R. GROSS
415 pool, 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 1 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 Okay. NEAL R.GROSS

what are
the
four or
five
things,
what
things
could we do to control the radiation release? NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: CHUCK CASTO: only one. same thing. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: CHUCK "Well, CASTO: Now Okay. today they're saying, I think, Okay.
And I don't think that's the they told him the
to Jim Trapp,
we were just postulating that it NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MARTY VIRGILIO: I Okay. mean
would go dry."
that
was was
pretty dry and
clear with Monager;
they had told him it
we needed some actions. if
What actions would you take
you had lost the integrity of the pool? NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Okay. That's fine.
Okay. MARTY Government great. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MARTY VIRGILIO: I'd like to see a better Yes. I am hopeful, than we had are now VIRGILIO: changing So, their TEPCO position. and the
That's
You know, situation
yesterday. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Yes, yes. Okay.
416 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 have that (inaudible). MARTY VIRGILIO: No, because we didn't question. where is was also MALE recording So, PARTICIPANT: dose at rates a in Notwithstanding rems per hour at in least we're the a
vicinity.
minimum,
there's
significant amount of fuel that's exposed. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MARTY VIRGILIO: 30 rem between Yes. The last I saw
Right. and 4.
Building 3
I don't know
where that number came from. MALE PARTICIPANT: from uncovered fuel. MARTY VIRGILIO: NRC CHAIRMAN Right. Okay. And that, That's right. That's
JACZKO:
that dose measurement coming from? MARTY VIRGILIO: What I read was between
Building 3 and 4. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Oh, I mean the
source of the information. MARTY VIRGILIO: Right, that's It the came
How did we get that information?
from the field team somewhere. FEMALE PARTICIPANT: But that's the
(inaudible, possibly "talk") MALE PARTICIPANT: NEAL R. GROSS

yesterday.
Did either Jim or Tony
(202) 234-4433
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417 1 2 3 4 and look. Unit 4. FEMALE PARTICIPANT: 6 7 8 9 the field? FEMALE Japanese website, PARTICIPANT:
--
provide that information? FEMALE PARTICIPANT: We ran (inaudible) I'd have 40 rems to go back in
(inaudible)
I heard those numbers
last night,
too. MALE PARTICIPANT: Was that reported from
It
was
(inaudible)
11
11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
JAIF
FEMALE PARTICIPANT: last night. It was and reported
No, over.
but we heard But I
it
can't
remember the folks,
(inaudible).
(Inaudible). MALE too. (Inaudible). MALE PARTICIPANT: can we provide you? NRC CHAIRMAN still JACZKO: So, again, are we Mr. Chairman, what else PARTICIPANT: Yes, he heard that,
comfortable with the four statements? CHUCK CASTO: We are here in Okay. Japan. But we have about the pool

--
so,
the source of
the information
was directly from TEPCO? MARTY VIRGILIO: Right, to John Monager.
NEAL R. GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE, N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701
(202) 234-4433
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418 NRC directly right, from CHAIRMAN JACZKO: TEPCO to John Okay. So, it was it's
Monager.
Maybe
maybe it's
wrong,
but what is
the likelihood,
you think,
that we have a full pool at this point? CHUCK CASTO: It's highly unlikely with
the steam that's boiling off of it. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: indications of steam? CHUCK CASTO: Yes, it's on the Okay. And you have
-the
Unit 4.
steam. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: CHUCK CASTO: Okay. steaming more than
Unit 3 is
NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: CHUCK CASTO: So,
Okay. is on Unit
their focus
--
NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: CHUCK CASTO: MARTY Chairman, at --
Okay.
quite heavily. But recent

at --
VIRGILIO:
K>
the meeting you were just

MARTY VIRGILIO:
--
Yes.
NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MARTY VIRGILIO:
Yes.
And those
NEAL R.GROSS
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419
NRC possible that
CHAIRMAN they have,
JACZKO:
Chuck,
is
it
KS>
NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MARTY Chairman, VIRGILIO:
OKay. Information to you,
at the meeting --
NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: classified line. MARTY VIRGILIO: Right.
Marty,
I'm not on a
I understand.
NEAL R.GROSS
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420 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 1 1 17 1 19 2 21 22 23 24 25 Thanks. Okay. ELIOT: Thanks, Mr. everybody. Eliot. it, this alone. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: saying you're still Okay. 4? So, you're and, is fourth, that So, NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: again, we're still Okay. Well, thanks.
comfortable with the points? Yes. Okay. But we may spent-
MARTY VIRGILIO: NRC
CHAIRMAN JACZKO:
have some question about the amount of water in fuel pool No. 4? Right. Okay. our Okay.
CHUCK CASTO:
NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: uncertainty change any of
Does the
views
about
recommendations? MARTY VIRGILIO: NRC CHAIRMAN 4? No, not the 50 miles. Okay. But the
JACZKO: Marty,
the Point No.
you know what the No.
4 point is? MARTY VIRGILIO: yes, based Yes. Yes, I'm looking at and again, dose
I would say yes, not necessarily
based on -on
radioactive
comfortable with No. Yes. JACZKO:
MARTY VIRGILIO: NRC CHAIRMAN
Okay.
Okay.
Chairman,
NEAL R. GROSS
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421 1 2 3 4 NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: ELIOT: Mr. Chairman? Yes? hearing anything correct? Yes, that's to Bye.
NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: ELIOT: I'm not
5 6
7
suggest we should be rolling back tonight, NRC correct. ELIOT: NRC wanted to add? ELIOT: No, no. I mean, Thank you. JACZKO: CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Yes.
8 9
Ii 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 .18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Unit 3. You know, dry, it, but it it's
CHAIRMAN
Anything
else
you
NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: me ask you that.
Chuck,
let
Do you think I need to roll back any
of the statements that I made? CHUCK CASTO: I don't, It I don't think so.
we've gone over it.
may not have been With the steam on is on
certainly wasn't full.
inconclusive of where the water level
Unit 4 --

-I
Okay.
the best
--
think is
Okay. 3, certainly on
Or on Unit
NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: NEAL R,GROSS
Okay.
(202) 234-4433
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422 CHUCK 2 actions, it's, CASTO: And without mitigating
without adding water to that spent-fuel pool,

--
you know
NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: 5CHUCK 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 Thanks. Bye. CHUCK CASTO: BRUCE BOGER: CHUCK CASTO: BRUCE BOGER: a little while ago -Bruce? Yes, CASTO: --
It
will be dry?
you lose water. Yes. Okay. Okay.
Chuck?
What else do we need to -I think where we were headed Bill, don't go away -yes,
13
14 1 16 17 18 19 2 21 22 23 2 2
we're still piping and
trying to figure out how to get the hard the rest of the stuff necessary to
establish a pumping system. CHUCK CASTO: BRUCE BOGER: working pretty Right. We heard the request. and trying We're our some to of
aggressively,
to work
way through some of our -bureaucratic-type encounter. paths going, out there. CHUCK CASTO: Bill things advises
you know, that me we
(inaudible) might got a have couple
we've
but we're pushing hard to get that stuff
That's
great,
and
know
NEAL R. GROSS
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1 2
13
follow through with
that and make sure that
happens.
1
1 16 1 1 19 2 2 22
If
we've told the world we can do it
and
--
oh,
I've
I
got to go to a meeting with the Ambassador and them, forgot, at 10:30 here, So, in two minutes.
I know you all are working on it.
We to
want to come through on that after committing to it the Prime Minister. MALE PARTICIPANT: to the point where we Yes. Well, to need
we may get
are going
there to sign off on a procurement for Bechtel. 23 CHUCK CASTO: Okay. We'll is. get whomever
24
you need to sign off on whatever it 2 MALE PARTICIPANT:
We're working to get it
NEAL R.GROSS
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424 to a point where that might happen. him a heads-up along the way, CHUCK CASTO: this to? MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: MALE PARTCICIPTANT CHUCK CASTO:
FEMALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: Head of the I)ART.
So,
--
if
you give
that's
Who's this,
I've got to tell
I 'm sorry?
The DART?
MALE DART.
PARTICIPANT:
Yes,
he's hea d of
the
CHUCK CASTO:
Yes,
we can get DART. We'll get DART.
DART, That's
we're working well together. no problem. MALE PARTICIPANT: down the pike. Thanks. CASTO: All
Okay.
That might come
CHUCK soon.
right.
Talk
to
you
NEAL R.GROSS
(202) 234-4,433
425
1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 meeting, Headquarters
(CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) MALE PARTICIPANT: Officer. This is the coming
Operations
Chuck Casto
up on the bridge. FEMALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: Hey, We're here. hey, guys, Hey, Chuck.
FEMALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: but I
Chuck. to another
I've got to get
just wanted to tell
you that Tony took
11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 there was helicopter steam last night went by, at there's building. For me, I'm evermore convinced that
nothing there. And I
There's major damage
to that on it.
just have to stake my career
But I don't see that there's any structural there at all.
integrity
You know, five o'clock when Who knows? the It
steam or smoke.
might have been a fire inside the building. tell. FEMALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: Unit 4,
You can't
correct?
Do what? Unit 4? Unit 4.
FEMALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: Yes,
NEAL R.GROSS
426 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 FEMALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: 01
And the
mm
-m
18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25 So, I feel as
NEAL R.GROSS
427 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 heard, confident in this stuff as you can to stick with the
Chairman's statement. MALE PARTICIPANT: that the Japanese and, Yes. were also, Now what we also talking a riot about cannon,
helicopter-lifted you know,
buckets
a water-fired riot cannon. CHUCK CASTO: Right. That's what I told
you earlier, yes. MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes, in order to
10
provide some additional water. FEMALE PARTICIPANT: You can see the
12 13 14 15 16 18
helicopters on TV. MALE PARTICIPANT:

yes.
Yes,
they've
got
pumping now on the --
CHUCK CASTO: in days. But,

meeting, but--
Yes,
I haven't
seen the TV
okay,
I've got to get
to this other
18
'9 20 23
MALE PARTICIPANT: us? CHUCK CASTO:
Anything you need from
No, we're good,
I think.
We
22
23 24
just saw the military again,
and they have got pumps. Yes, nine pumps were
FEMALE PARTICIPANT: dropped off. CHUCK CASTO: Yes,
they've
got
pumps
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428 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS

headed on the way.
So,
DoD's moving equipment. Okay. Great.
FEMALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: Okay.
FEMALE PARTICIPANT: as our No. there. CHUCK priority. All right, work. guys. CASTO: Get 1 priority now, is
That's what we yve got to get equipme:nt over
equipment,
that's
Hey,
thanks for all the
You guys are doing a great job. FEMALE PARTICIPANT: All right, Chuck, go
to your other meeting. done. CHUCK CASTO:
We'll talk to you when you get
Thanks.
Bye. Bye.
FEMALE PARTICIPANT:
(202) 234-4433
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429 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2> 21 22 23 24 2 meanwhile, to let based we're here. FEMALE PARTICIPANT: NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: the status is? of a worst-case would We're here. Hi. Do we know what Headquarters (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) MALE PARTICIPANT: This is the coming
Ops Officer.
Chairman Jaczko is
up on the bridge. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes. Yes, Hello. Mr. Hello.
Chairman,
We were doing some MACCS runs on kind scenario Do to see what the the West Coast status of those
impacts results?
be.
we know
MALE PARTICIPANT: FEMALE
Let us get the PMP. Chairman, in the
PARTICIPANT:
while we're waiting for the PMP,
we wanted and
you know we just heard from Chuck Casto, on some information he just received
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430
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Research. think, miles. that, water? we
NRC have
CHAIRMAN other
JACZKO:
Okay. that
Okay. there's
So no
confirmation
FEMALE PARTICIPANT: NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE PARTICIPANT:
Yes. Okay. Mr. Chairman, they
haven't gotten the report back from NARAC on the runs they were doing on the West Coast implications. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Okay. I thought we
were running our own independent runs. VONNA ORDAZ: We can't do that beyond 50
MALE
PARTICIPANT:
Fifty Vonna is I
miles right.
is,
the limits of our tools, NRC CHAIRMAN
JACZKO: earlier in
understood,
talked to Jennifer Uhle
the day,
and she
said we were going to run some MACCS codes of our own, independent from NARAC. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: NRC CHAIRMAN Out of Research. Okay, out of Research. Yes, out of
JACZKO:
MALE PARTICIPANT: FEMALE
Okay, we'll check. And, then, our
PARTICIPANT: NEAL R.GROSS
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431 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 understanding, priorities, also, is that they were on a variety of
and we may not be at the top of that list. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Yes, that's fine.
But we were going to do the MACCS runs. going to do that. FEMALE PARTICIPANT: NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Okay. Is
Research was
We can check. she available or
8
9 FEMALE room, but we can
--
PARTICIPANT:
She's
not
in
the
10
11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2
MALE PARTICIPANT: the Center. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: but I don't think -NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: back to feeling confident
haven't
seen her
in
Yes, Yes,
we'll call her. we can call her,
So,
right now, dry
we're is an
that
the pool
accurate statement? MALE information we PARTICIPANT: just got Yes, based it's on the
from Chuck,
validating
where we've been all day. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Hey, if Okay. Okay.
you get information on the MACCS, I'm going to head home,
can you just give me a call?
and just give me a ring about that. NEAL R.GROSS

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432 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 1 13 15 Thanks. FEMALE PARTICIPANT: NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Thank you. Bye. MALE PARTICIPANT:
Jennifer and --
Okay.
We'll track down
NRC
CHAIRMAN
JACZKO:
Okay.
Thanks.
16
1E
2C 21 22 23 24 25q
NEAL R.GROSS
(202) 234-4433
433 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 on the line. the line? MALE PARTICIPANT: Go ahead. MARTY VIRGILIO: This is Marty Virgilio. Yes, Naval Reactors is (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) MALE PARTICIPANT: Naval Reactors is on
I was looking for Steve Trautman. MR. is not in the BURROWS ECC (phonetic): now. Yes, is Mr. Mr. Trautman Burrows
8
9
right
This
10
(phonetic).
I'm acting for him in MR. ROBERTS: Okay.
the ECC. Mr. Burrows, this is
12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 2 22 23 2 25
Mr.
Roberts.
I'm going to hang up from the bridge.
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434 1 2 3 with me, wanted (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) MALE PARTICIPANT: I have Tom Roberts here
and I guess we're hearing that Admiral Donald to talk to the Chairman to get some
4 5
6 7
clarification.
8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
K>
NEAL R. GROSS
.11
2 3 4
7 8 9
12 13 12
115
16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 2 2 MALE PARTICIPANT: plugged into that, radiologically to
--
Right.
And so,
are you
to advise on whether it
makes sense
MALE PARTICIPANT: more than radiological issues -MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT:
Yes.
No,
I think it's
Uh-hum. -that the Ambassador
has under consideration right now. You know, our position is that it is
NEAL R. GROSS
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436
wmmu mm
K'S\
E
11
14
1E 12
18 19 2 21
22
23
24
MALE PARTICIPANT:
MALE PARTICIPANT:
Right.
This is
--
--
(Inaudible)
25
MALE
PARTICIPANT:
This
is
not some thing
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(202) 234-443
437 1 2 3 4 5 question, some we've calculated or we've recommended. We're
responding to the Ambassador's request at this point. MALE PARTICIPANT: isn't Okay. Let me ask the at the PEG
there an ALARA consideration here We made calculate relative that to if, your in fact,
level?
assumptions 7
50-mile
calculation come to pass, 2 rem total miles. now effective And
that you would get like 1 to out to if it 150 to
dose equivalent it make
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17
200
wouldn't
sense, wouldn't
we're make
talking
voluntary
departure,
sense to recommend voluntary departure in avoiding that level of population dose? MALE PARTICIPANT: opinion? MALE PARTICIPANT: Sure.
the name of
Do you want my personal
18
19 2 21 22 23 24 251 MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: That's my own personal view. And Right.
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438
I 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
radiation is
just one factor. MALE PARTICIPANT: Right. on So, but what we or you are
are
charged
with
advising
--
radiation
charged with advising MALE
PARTICIPANT:
And
that's
in
our
protective action to up to 50 miles. MALE PARTICIPANT: being so rigid in right strict thing is Right, but why are we The to
terms of doing the right thing? an ALARA thing here, in addition
interpretation of PEG.
14
16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 MALE PARTICIPANT: -Yes. -I suppose, I suppose If you went to a
(inaudible, possible "law")
NEAL R. GROSS
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439 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 is, you could get there. MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes, so the question
how much should the law play into --
17
181
19 20 211 22 23 24 25
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440 .1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
-mI
MIN
-mi
-
-U
mU m-,i
mmm-
-
12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 FEMALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes. And the scope of that,
NEAL R.GROSS
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441 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 as you understood it from him, was --
12A
13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
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442 MALE PARTICIPANT: Right. Now, if we were you
asked to advise strictly on radiological grounds, would or would not take into consideration ALARA? MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes, if I would,
but
keep coming back to I think that, the 50-mile zone,
you're out beyond
there are other factors -That

--
take in that
-on this
bear
decision.. MALE PARTICIPANT: VONNA ORDAZ: And Okay. other countries have
recognized that as well in releases. MALE

-thanks. Vonna
PARTICIPANT:
Ordaz is
In
the press
me,
releases
she is
here with
and
saying
in
the
press
releases
other
countries
are
acknowledging that the radioactive dose is many considerations. VONNA ORDAZ: Structural Right.
--
just one of
(inaudible)
--
MALE PARTICIPANT:
VONNA communications, ORDAZ:
--
transportation,
and other
MALE PARTICIPANT: 3~ P IAN~
Right, ka.
yes. S
-
''
"
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS I~r.AL ISLAND M. UKUbb 1323 RHODE AVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
(202) 234-4433
2 3 4 5 6 .1 7 8 9 10 --- E PARTICIPANT: Okay.
K>"
MALE PARTICIPANT: 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 here.

MALE MALE MALE MALE MALE MALE
All right. And if necessary, we'll
MALE PARTICIPANT: have another conversation. MALE PARTICIPANT:
Thanks.
Yes,
we're
PARTICIPANT: PARTICIPANT: PARTICIPANT: PARTICIPANT: PARTICIPANT: PARTICIPANT:
Thank you. Bye-bye. Bye. Don't hesitate. Uh-hum. Bye.
All right.
NEAL R.GROSS
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444 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 he'll left think things, if (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) DAN DORMAN: JOSH BATKIN: DAN DORMAN: Hi, Josh. Who's that?
Hello.
Dan Dorman. And Marty Virgilio. gentlemen.
MARTY VIRGILIO: JOSH BATKIN: DAN DORMAN: JOSH now is BATKIN:
Hello,
Good evening. I only It's have two quick
a good time.
not urgent. a very good time. if anybody is I very
MARTY VIRGILIO: JOSH BATKIN: from day shift, they worked
This is
First of all,
they kicked some butt today. very hard, but it was a
important day for a number of reasons, great job of So, producing if information
and they did a that -was I very guess,
important.
you could pass there. Yes. He's got
that
Marty, you're still
MARTY VIRGILIO: DAN DORMAN:
his
sleeping
bag
rolled out in the corner. JOSH BATKIN: (Laughter.) Put him get some quiet. My other two quick things were the in the corner by the table, so Awesome.
NEAL R.GROSS
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445 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 2 2 not you,

--
Chairman, o'clock
Marty, from
the Chairman is
going to do the eight So, the eight
the White
House again.
o'clock call tomorrow morning at the White House -MARTY VIRGILIO: to the White House for that. JOSH BATKIN: Right, he will be there for Right, right, he will go
the Situation Room at the White House. Is there any way that you guys could, so
as to further use all of the wonderful work that will go on over the night to update the information that we have, is there any way somebody could get him an
updated book or get me an updated book at House before eight o'clock? MARTY VIRGILIO: think. Yes,
the White
I'm just trying to
We could figure that out. JOSH BATKIN: Okay. Where would it be best to
MARTY VIRGILIO:
you're going to be with him? JOSH BATKIN: Yes, I'll be with him.
MARTY VIRGILIO: JOSH Marty, BATKIN: somebody,
Okay. Meet me at because the you southwest, should be
sleeping. MARTY VIRGILIO: (Laughter.) NEAL R.GROSS

I'll
still
be here.
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446 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 I1 11 1 1 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 that. MALE PARTICIPANT: That's no problem. right office. feel now. So, update in book") at the sleepy. JOSH BATKIN: Yes, exactly. Yes, if somebody could just meet me at like 7:45 or something? Oh, no. No, you should be
No. southwest
gate
They're done with their update? the normal schedule, right?
That's enough time on
MALE PARTICIPANT: the (inaudible,
Yes,
I think we target or "gold
possibly "go book"
around 6:00. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Right, So, right. we slip a somebody's
even if
half an hour, hand to get it
we should be able to put it down there. Okay, great.
JOSH BATKIN:
MALE PARTICIPANT: JOSH BATKIN: I if think we Yes, have
Does he have -he physically a second one has his in our one, yes,
you wanted
to cannibalize might have
that to,
free.
Otherwise,
--
you
depending on the level
MALE PARTICIPANT: and make a new one. JOSH BATKIN: All
We will bite the bullet
right.
Sorry
about
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447 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 minutes encourage MALE PARTICIPANT: him to call in, And, too, Josh, if you can, I mean,
because, the book.
there's only so much we can put in JOSH BATKIN: Oh,
absolutely. Yes, if
Absolutely. he could call
MALE PARTICIPANT: us, you know,
whenever he's ready -BATKIN: Okay. Is the 5 or 10 in
JOSH
or so on the phone enough,
do you
think,
the morning? MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: (Laughter.) JOSH

I'll actually --
Ask me in Yes.
the morning.
11
12 13
14
BATKIN:
Okay.
All
right.
Well,
15 16 17 18 19 20 .21 22 23 24 2 sign.
MALE my perspective, the first time
PARTICIPANT: this I've is my
I'll
tell,
Josh,
from is not
fourth shift in where
and this are
come
things
radically different from when I left 16 hours earlier. JOSH BATKIN: Yes. I count that as a good
MALE PARTICIPANT:
JOSH BATKIN:
Yes. But, hopefully, I will
MALE PARTICIPANT: be able to say that again in JOSH BATKIN:
eight hours. It's not that great of
Yes.
NEAL R. GROSS
448 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 that's have on it, MALE PARTICIPANT: JOSH always on. MALE PARTICIPANT: JOSH BATKIN: did he give any So, Okay. my other question was, on a high threshold to BATKIN: Yes, that's the number BlackBerry, a sign when some folks are saying things were better, but anyway. MALE just PARTICIPANT: so that when we Can we have your
send the messenger
down with the book, we can connect with you? JOSH BATKIN: Yes. Can you have my
BlackBerry phone number? MALE PARTICIPANT: JOSH personal cell. MALE PARTICIPANT: JOSH BATKIN: Oh, okay. the ringer I always BATKIN: Yes. Oh, yes, just use my
That's
instructions
reach out to him overnight? MALE PARTICIPANT: No. He and I talked
about that just the last phone call we had. JOSH BATKIN: Okay. And I said, "If we need
MALE PARTICIPANT: you, we'll call you." But,
I mean, he was pretty much
NEAL R. GROSS
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449 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 announcement saying, needed you know, to do and is he was empowering to make sure us to do what we a very high
that was
threshold,
the way I took his remarks. JOSH BATKIN: MALE Good. Great. Don't wake him up
PARTICIPANT:
unless we have to. JOSH BATKIN: And, is for Thank you. instance, That's great. if that not, next
made overnight,
that is
I think,
a reason to call him. MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes. Right. Yes, that's Okay. You mean the
President's decision? JOSH
BATKIN:
something there's no action for us on that. MALE PARTICIPANT: JOSH BATKIN: So, I Right, think right. he's sat through
what we sat through. the morning.
I think he can learn that in
MALE PARTICIPANT: JOSH BATKIN:
Yes. there's any incidents you know. Yes, I You know.
But if
at the plant or anything, well, MALE PARTICIPANT: and I said I'd try not call from Admiral Donald, (Laughter.) NEAL R.GROSS
joked with him a phone
to wake him up with
after late last night.
(202) 234-4433
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450 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 a call this? JOSH BATKIN: Yes, exactly. I know, I got
from him at like 6:30. Shall we all him at home?" (Laughter.) They said,
They're like,
"What's
I'm like, why?
"Admiral Donald is".. He's like, I said, "No,
I said,
"Put him on the bridge." already on the bridge." wake him up." Okay.
the Deputy's Well, then,
"Okay.
9
1 11
I think that's
--
MALE PARTICIPANT: your night shift covered. JOSH BATKIN: MALE too. JOSH BATKIN: that Oh,
--
All right.
We've got
12
13 1 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
all I had. You get
Okay, some
great. sleep,
PARTICIPANT:
that was my other point,
someone delivered the book to him tonight while the meeting, like 15 or 20 minutes So, the into the thank you folks who
he was in meeting, to --
and he used that information. know, If it again, thank you to
you it. on
updated working
you can pass onto the folks tonight that that
that are the
document,
information
that they're providing to the Chairman is
going for his use at the highest levels of government, so it is an important and vital and appreciated
product. NEAL R.GROSS

451 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R.GROSS

MALE PARTICIPANT: night shift. (Laughter.) JOSH BATKIN: Well,
We invented it
here on
there you go. Remember that.
MALE PARTICIPANT: JOSH BATKIN: So, appreciation on it. MALE PARTICIPANT: yes,
A night shift product.
I mean please do pass along the going to be working
to everybody who is
It's
this
crew
that
invented the whole concept of the (inaudible, "go book" or "gold book"). JOSH BATKIN: Great.
possibly
That's great.
All right, good luck. MALE PARTICIPANT: tomorrow, All right. Talk to you
and-have a good night's sleep. JOSH BATKIN: Bye. You, too. Thanks.
452
1
2 3 4 5MALE 6 7 Ops Officer.
(CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) MALE PARTICIPANT: This is Headquarters
Chuck Casto coming up on the bridge. CHUCK CASTO: This is Chuck Casto. Chuck. You have
PARTICIPANT:
Hey,
Marty and Dan and Chris CHUCK CASTO;
(inaudible). Hey, guys. Hi, Chuck.
8 9
10 1
MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK get a hold of me. MALE though. CHUCK CASTO: number right. that was trying Okay. to CASTO: I
Good morning. think somebody tried to
I don't know what the message is. PARTICIPANT: Okay. It wasn't us,
12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Ministry of
It
was the Ops Center me, but that's all
call was.
I don't know what it
Hey, we just left, Marty, Defense. We were
we just left with
the the
talking
Minister and the Joint Chief and all their staff.
2 NEAL R.GROSS
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8 9
10
ii1 121 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24
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454
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 13 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 rc And by the way, I'm headed trom the
K>
Ministry of Defense over to somewhere to meet with the Ambassador.
NEAL R.GROSS
455
2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 21 22 23 24 25 actions other And I think that's about it. CHRIS MILLER: Chuck, it's Miller. they're taking It some MALE PARTICIPANT: would be helpful, I And that sounds great. if they're planning
think,
sort of action to like provide additional water it would be really helpful if we understood in those
supplies,
really the ground truth on radiation areas? CHUCK CASTO: Yes.
levels
Right.
And
they and
promised to share their radiation results with us, we're with flying DOE, over now. get There's that flyovers
happening They
and
we'll
information.
promised to get us their wanted our
information.
But they also
K>
Do you get the sense that to clear the site,
so when the pumps and the that they will be
(inaudible) equipment come in, there? that And is when
able to get in about fuel, so
somebody doing something the pumps there,
they get
they've got fuel to run the pumps? NEAL R.GROSS

(202) 234-4433
www.nealrgross.com
456 CHUCK CASTO: 2 3

--
The only thing that they're sense they're doing any of
no,
don't
get
the
that.
You know, and
they're putting all
their efforts on the crowd
helicopters, hose,
they are going to put in I
the crowd sprayer thing. you know, the riot

--
forget what that's
6
7 8 9 1 1 12 13 1 1 16 17 18 19
called,
MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: that, Yes,
Riot control, yes. I
yes. beyond
mean,
they're not doing much at all for any kind of a
long-term solution. Finally -and I'm about to go into a as get team out
meeting with the Ambassador -soon as we can get together
but, the
finally, Marty, team, we can
everybody assembled, meeting. resources help; can't in tell in And,
we're going to have a little we're going to figure
then,
for our team as far as, what areas? you what getting a
you know, is
do we need just
--
Because everybody great group of
people
you've
assembled
things done.
21
22 23 24 25 Nevertheless, there's still just a few of
NEAL R.GROSS
(202) 234-4433
457 1 2 3 us, and we're spread thin. And the Japanese, when
they have a meeting,
they want everybody. Yes, yes.
MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: Okay,
4 5 6
7 meeting.
I've got to go. All right. to go into this
I've got
8 9
about what
MALE PARTICIPANT:
All right.
Well,
think
skill sets and numbers of people you need.
Let us know. 11. 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 soon. MALE PARTICIPANT: All right. CHUCK CASTO: Okay. I'll talk to you
NEAL R.GROSS

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DISCLAIMER Except for the marked redactions for FOIA withholding, this transcript has not been edited

Official Transcript of Proceedings NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION

Japan's Fukushima Daiichi ET Audio File

Wednesday, March 16, 2011

Work Order No.:

1 1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION

JAPAN'S FUKUSHIMA DAIICHI ET AUDIO FILE

(phonetic) with the U.S. DAN DORMAN: Joe,

Embassy, Tokyo. this is Dan Dorman, the

9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 for t(phonetic) m USAID, so information

get approval here.

request from TEPCO for up to seven, that General Electric has

but we understand three of them,

that they are available, transport.

and we just need to arrange

Have they already been

for us to transport them. MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes, USAID was looking

to send a request back to that they could get them on a military

3 1 2 3 transport and get them over them. I don't think there It

associated with it. 7 8

MALE PARTICIPANT: to take care of that.

MALE PARTICIPANT: Fellows, I request I'll am 0 So, if fellows, m

That's correct. let's cut this short. and I do the then

MALE PARTICIPANT: phone here, number for our guy who

and he'll connect you to Pat Longi (phonetic) NEALR.GROSS

4 think wi-th GE,

going to get you the specs.

with USAID here in

Pat Long has the specs?

I've got it. MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes. Okay. e'll W go

ahead and get this going for you guys.

5 1 2 MALE Appreciate it. = 0 Uh-hum. Bye-bye. PARTICIPANT: Thanks,

WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701

(CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) MALE PARTICIPANT:

We're just sitting here

has been talking thinking here is,

what we are kind of

these are massive engines. They've got to

And they're going to get them into

going to do with them?

equipment need complements, pumps and stuff?

These have got to be 5-megawatt, be 5-megawatt generators. I

these are mean these

things are massive. MALE PARTICIPANT: This is Monty

we had worked out originally, right? NEAL R.GROSS

(inaudible) powered compressors. What do they hope to do with these

We don't really know.

apparently, per C5.

they're one generator

a good question you know,

I'm talking to the

8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2Q 21 22 23 24 25 Bye-bye. AID folks here.

I'm sorry about that. Excuse me. Fine. All right.

The Ambassador wants to see us. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT:

MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Hey, important being i Dan, an

How are you? good. you, the most

really where we're headed with it, MALE PARTICIPANT:

evacuated the site. MALE PARTICIPANT: And yesterday we

you know, we have been dealing with

I was a gambling man, So,

I know where I would put my

I agree with you.

rnln-nMALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes, Yes, Okay.