"In the paravastha of kriya a close investigation of Brahm becomes possible and most surprising experiences are gained.

It is an astonishing atmosphere where there is no sun, no moon, no fire, yet there is light. By kriya's practice, those who enter the planetary caves in the kootasth can hear the sweet sound of Om, sung by deities of the sky. The sadhak visits the country of spiritual happiness, and after it the mind gets set on all pervading atma." - Spiritual Gita (vol II) p. 195 Yogiguru Shree Bhupendranath Sanyal When in the advanced stage of practice, the sadhak's mind (breath) becomes still in the paravastha of kriya, he enters a state that transcends night and day and hears the unstruck sound of Om. When this paravastha is achieved, then sense of the body (as self) gets lost. This body as the self, is the main cause of ignorance. By the practice of kriya, the impurities of the mind are burnt out and a steady meditational position is gained, by this steady position, genuine knowledge is lighted up and thus all worldly attitudes leave the mind, lighting up the light of self realization. Hence the intelligence does not get effected by ignorance or this material world." - Spiritual Gita (vol II) p. 196 Yogiguru Shree Bhupendranath Sanyal All sorrow stems from the erroneous conception, "I am the body." When the sadhak reaches paravastha of kriya, this notion dissolves, or rather, is realized to be untrue. At this stage, the dirt of ignorance can no longer taint his consciousness, even as darkness cannot coexist with light. Apparently he does say that. Ketch quoted it a month ago if I recall rightly. But he is the only one that clearly does so that I can find thus far and perhaps it is misinterpreted. This is what I am saying with the quotes of Nityananda. Yogananda only once talks of the center of his cosmic conscious experience in A.Y. as the heart. It is nowhere else--certainly not in his gita. All he talks about there is the sahasrar as the ultimate place. Daya Ma says there is a polarity between ajna and anahata and when one is strong the other will also be to a lesser degree. I think Sivananda says you can experience samadhi from any chakra or part of the body as it is all consciousnes. Funny Ramana is a jyani and he says heart. But Swami Rama said Ramana only appeared a jyani. In actuality he was a bakti of siva in the form of Arunachala mountain. Yogananda says the soul is perceieved in 3 places: medualla, ajna and sahasrar. This is in his Gita and I remember Bro. Ishtananda doing a class on this passage last year very clearly. You could find it in the index.

When asked what center she was in when she went into samadhi Durga Mata said she might go into it from 3 spots: medulla, ajna and sahasrar. My freind who was close to her told me that. "I want to hear about the stages in kutasta and the crossing of the vijnan chakra above ajna to the sahasrar." Sundarar Sir, Even the astonishing experiences had upon reaching the ajna chakra are still but the manifestation of maya. Sri Bhupendranathji does not write about experiences above this, because how can that State be described? Note... "Due to his kriya he (sadhak) rises to the state of paravastha, abiding by it, staying in the flowing stream of Brahm (regularly), the being reaches the undescribable, eternal happiness and becomes self-realized. Thus the three playgrounds disappear or the three worlds get washed away by the stream of Brahm, putting an end to the play." - Spiritual Gita (Vol II.) p. 222 Shree Bhupendranath Sanyal Sadhaks are warned -- as it is very easy to become enthralled by the experiences in paravastha, not to become addicted to these, or even to the bliss derived thereof. This is easier said then done! It is true that it is very difficult to transcend ajna chakra -- more than years, this can even take additional incarnation(s). You have, no doubt, heard of great ones falling even from here. Perhaps we must constantly remind ourselves, not to confuse the stunning scenery with the Destination. Thank you. Yes, many people even like Ramdas say it is hard to go by ajna. I read Kriya Yoga Vijnan recently by Shuddananda and I think it the best book on kriya even surpassing Bejoy Dasgupta and Satyananda's kriya books at yoganiketan. Anyway, Shuddha says that Lahiri likes sadhaks to do kechari as it produced such bliss that they were able to bypass siddhis that accumulate when one has gotten to the vijnan chakra. He says that the bliss of this kechari is obviously only a sliver of brahmananda in the sahasrar or brahmarandhra and that the powers of one at sahasrar is also much greater. Nonetheless, Doc Lewis said that powers start accumulating when one penetrates the star (thus getting sabikalpa samadhi without breath or pulse and lodging at vijnan chakra?) The sambavi mudra or gaze at the 3rd eye may be said to be the flipside of kechari and accomplishes the same goal. Shuddananda says that Lahiri advised chelas to go into kecari when they had sex and it is nice to note that Yogananda said keep love in heart dominant and mind at kutasta. Yogananda emphasizes sambavi and Lahiri the kechari it seems to me. But Lahiri called yoni mudra the real jyana yoga and the 4 mahavakyas such as Tat Tvam asi are stages in kutasta it seems to me. I have never read that but would not be suprised to see it later in a Lahiri commentary. Regardless, Jyana yoga is but a mental game without kriya, unless you

have samskaras of those states from past lives already like Ramana. In the book at Yoganiketan "Kriya yoga and Sriyukteswar" Sri Dasgupta discusses vijnan chakra, also called the jyana chakra or guru chakra. He says when one gets to sahasrar chakra one sees God's face. Doc Lewis had this experience in 1958 when he finally saw "God's great face". The experience yeilds nirbikalpa samadhi and pension of kriya wheter it is as a jivanmukta or a sidda. Evidently Doctor got to sahasrara only in 1958. It seems it took nearly 40 years for him to traverse the ajna and vijnan. Yogananda says in his gita that a jivanmukta has a nirbikalpa but it is not as deep as a siddha and he has to occasionally use his ajna to discern right action. The key in getting to sahasrar is to at least get to vijnan and take the wisdom down to ajna in the day and actualize it. When you do that enough you can go on to the next level. But a similar process has to be enacted in earlier stages of the chakras also to get to the higher one. There has been much dispute where the prana ends up in the final stages. I am of the opinion that it is in sahasrar for the siddha and never comes down. Though Ramakrishna says he taught from 5th chakra awareness i think he had to be in the crown mostly. Daya Ma says to keep the prana between the ajna and the heart and dont let it drop lower than the heart. In reality the ajna and heart are linked up closely. Here is a site with quotes by Siddha guru Nityananda, guru of Muktananda. His views match Roy Davis--the heart of us is the Infinite experienced fully in sahasrar. It is no reference to anahat chakra. www.nityananda.us "The heart space of the atman, the brahmarandhra, the sahasrar chakra or the thousand pettaled lotus in the brain were all the same (according to Nityananda)"www.nityananda.us/sutras1.htm He makes it clear that liberation is attained when one realizes the Self in all or the paramatman. This is God relaization as opposed to Self Realization. Anandamoy says it this way "the goal is the Infinite God". "Sound arises in the inner sky (chidakasha) of pure consciousness, the heart space in the head, the sky of the heart."--www.nityananda.us/teaching3.htm It is then that the advaitist would say "all I see is Spirit and the world as seperate from that is an illusion". The bakti would say he sees Bagavan now and the romance is on. But in reality both arrived at nirbikalpa in sahasrar. That has to be effected. There is nice info on kundalini awakening and the vijnan or guru chakra at: www.swamiji.com/kundalini-awakening-6.htm This is a great site inHad a look into "The Holy Science" for the first time in years. In his cosmology Sri Yukteswar makes use of Sant Mat terms like Radha, Shabda, and

Maha Shunya, as well as Anam, Agam etc. Perhaps these phrases may be scattered throughout Indian scriptures, but the way he places them suggests that he took them directly from Sant Mat. I recall that Satyeswarananda writes in his biography of Sri Yukteswar that in his early years he was associated with several people from the Sant Mat tradition. That was when he was young; it may have been in the 1870's or 80's. Later he met Lahiri Mahasaya who became his guru. Why did Sri Yukteswar depend on Sant Mat cosmology in his book? Another thing is that Sri Yukteswar seems to be one of the first people to leave Surat Shabd Yoga and turn to Kriya. This trend is continuing today. Does anyone know the reason? I have the impression that generally it is the teachers behind the techniques (e.g. Yogananda) that are chosen when shifting rather than merely the paths. general and he is a chela of Swami Rama. Had a look into "The Holy Science" for the first time in years. In his cosmology Sri Yukteswar makes use of Sant Mat terms like Radha, Shabda, and Maha Shunya, as well as Anam, Agam etc. Perhaps these phrases may be scattered throughout Indian scriptures, but the way he places them suggests that he took them directly from Sant Mat. I recall that Satyeswarananda writes in his biography of Sri Yukteswar that in his early years he was associated with several people from the Sant Mat tradition. That was when he was young; it may have been in the 1870's or 80's. Later he met Lahiri Mahasaya who became his guru. Why did Sri Yukteswar depend on Sant Mat cosmology in his book? Another thing is that Sri Yukteswar seems to be one of the first people to leave Surat Shabd Yoga and turn to Kriya. This trend is continuing today. Does anyone know the reason? I have the impression that generally it is the teachers behind the techniques (e.g. Yogananda) that are chosen when shifting rather than merely the paths.

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[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] Date Posted: 11:03:28 12/19/04 Sun Author: Sundarar - 27 Nov 2004

Subject: Re: Kriya Yoga and Surat Shabd In reply to: H - 27 Nov 2004 's message, "Kriya Yoga and Surat Shabd" on 11:02:28 12/19/04 Sun Thank you for this insight. He does use Sant Mat terms now that you mention it. I think Satyananda says Yogananda hung out with some Radhasoami people as a youth also. This is in "Yogananda Sangha" I believe. Why not--it is a powerful path with what is essentially the SRF om technique. That technique may have been inspired by Sant Mat--I have heard Lahiri taught hongsau to a few and Yukteswar and Kebalananda lines taught it to many. But did Lahiri teach om technique as what he calls Nada yoga or pranav sadhana? These 2 things are mentioned in his writings. Usually they refer to the 3 higher kriyas I think--their purpose is to hear om in deeper degrees. Someone please shed light. Sant Mat is a powerful path. Other than our line I like the lineage of Siddha Yoga of Nityananda and Sant Mat of Kirpal Singh. I don't blame Yukteswar and Yogananda from seeing them in their youth. There is some connection with our kriya lineage is my feeling. Lahiri said he was Kabir in the past. The end goal of kriya is to merge in om according to traditionalists. This is more importnat than penetrating kutasta. This is the same teaching in Sant Mat. S [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] Replies:

Re: Kriya Yoga and Surat Shabd -- anon. - 27 Nov 2004, 11:04:36 12/19/04 Sun o Bidyananda -- Sundarar - 28 Nov 2004, 11:05:51 12/19/04 Sun Re: Bidyananda -- anon. - 28 Nov 2004, 11:06:54 12/19/04 Sun Re: Bidyananda -- Sundarar - 28 Nov 2004, 11:08:02 12/19/04 Sun Re: Bidyananda -- KM - 28 Nov 2004, 11:09:14 12/19/04 Sun Re: Bidyananda -- anon. - 29 Nov 2004, 11:10:31 12/19/04 Sun Re: Kriya Yoga and Surat Shabd -- anon - 28 Nov 2004, 11:15:03 12/19/04 Sun

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There is a very good biography on Lahiri Mahasaya in Italian, by Swami Vidyananda Giri, in which there is a quote atributed to the Yogiraj, where he says something like this: "At night put your fingers on your ears and listen: 1) the voice of a cricket; 2) the sound of a flute; 3) the sound of a thunder; 4) the sound of a bell; 5) the sound of a gong; 6) the sound of a trumpet; 8) the sound of a bumble-bee." Swami Vidyananda is an old direct disciple of Yoganandaji, since 1935, and still lives in Purulia, India. He is his nineties now. The title of that book is "Yogiraj Lahiri Mahasaya", and the Italian publisher house is "Vidyananda" (the copyright is 1984, and the print house is "Grafica 2002" Citt di Castelo - Perugia - Italia). I am so sorry that I could not find that book in English. A friend of mine who knows Italian has this book in Italian and translated some parts for me. He has other book (this one I have in English --my friend has the Italian translation), and it is his Gita commentary, "Geeta Bodh". This book was acquired by my friend in Vidyanandaji's YSS ashram in Purulia, West Bengal. Maybe the Yogiraj biography can be find there in English. If the quote above is accurate, it is an evidence that Lahiri Mahasaya was familiar with and taught the Om technique or a similar one; of course, he also could be just refering to the Yoni/Jyoti Mudra. That quote is the last part of the book, chapter "Some sayings of Sri Sri Thakur Lahiri Baba". Thank you so much! Great! Seems like the om to me. A friend of mine went to India in 2001 for the kumbha mela. He spent time at YSS ashrams and met Bidyananda. He took a photo of him in his room practicing japa setting in a western chair. It is said the man is very powerful. He has charge of a small YSS ashram somewhere--or maybe it is a non denomenational ashram that YSS people go to. There was some unique situation I can't recall. Achalananda of SRF speaks highly of him and he told Achala to follow Yogananda in all things. He said "it worked for me--thats how I got there". I take it he means nirbikalpa samadhi.

That man is a treasure of a recource about all things kriya I am sure. It is Indian tradition that when a chela attains he opens his own ashram and writes a commentary on the gita. No one disagrees with him doing so in YSS? See, Roy Davis tried it here but many people don't like it. Does Bidyananda give kriya for YSS or by himself? My friend could spent some hours with him. Bidyanda was sitting like a statue deeply withdrawn within, in his hut. Just a brass cup of milk was placed before him. (My friend was told before by YSS monks, to not disturb him, because SB is very old and could be resting and sleeping.) After a long time he opened his eyes, and told my friend, "Son, what do you want from us in India? See, we are very poor, we have nothing to give you." My friend replied, "Swamiji, THAT what I want, only India can give It to me." Bidyanandaji's face lighted with a smile and he exclaimed in utter joy, "Om Narayan!" and blessed my friend with his both hands upon his (my friend's) head. Then Swamiji told him, "They say I am very old and could be sleeping..." (how he could know? Only though intuition, of course!) "But I sleep only two hours a day. Most of time I am doing Kriya and Hong-Sau." He also said to my friend, "One day, years ago, Ma [Daya Ma] entered through that door in ecstasy chanting 'Om Guru, Om Guru'. Then she touched me, and we both went into samadhi together." He told my friend this story. Yoganandaji used to take his friends to visit Sri Yukteswar. But they were afraid, due to the fiery personality of the Great One. So Master would cling the steps to the ashram first, in order to test the "mood" of the Jnanavatar, while his friends would hid himselves behind the wall. After bowing to his Guru, he waived to his friends and called them, "Come on, you can come now." He said Sri Yukteswar was too stern, but Master was full of love, very, very loving. I don't know if he gives Kriya by himself, independently from YSS, but the monks have him in the highest regard. A true saint still in body, there is no question about this. Yes. He gets the respect in YSS that Baktananda gets in USA. I had plenty of times with Baktananda and some with Anandamoy also. I think there is an american in YSS called Shantananda. They say he is a heavy hitter--often in samadhi. It would be good to get Bidya's Gita. It is only in Bengali? Some may say if you are a chela of PY that why not be satisfied with his Gita. My reply is each enlightened persons perception is unique and as long as they are in kriya lineage I like to read their Gita. Yukteswar says 'what unique testimony do you want to add to the ages? Don't be a spiritual victrola.' Everyone has a position and experience. To deny that is playing politics. Most saints I have been with like you to be straight up but open to new vistas. You have to be somebody before you become nobody says Mitrananda. What is yoga?--learning to stand on your own 2 feet says Kriyananda. I like these quotes.

The thing about Yukteswar is I think he did not like bull. He says intuit mens thoughts behind their verbiage. The guru is a flawless mirror. Whatever flaws you have he will bring out--they may appear to be in him but really they are in you, unless you are honest. This isn't easy. It is easy to be a "bliss bunnie" and be in some spiritual fairy tale in your own head. Few people are honest with themselves let alone others. If these visitors were honest with themselves the fear would not be much! Kriyananda asked Yogananda why Yukteswar was like that and the answer was he did not want disciples because he would not come back to earth for a very long time as he had a few stragglers this time only. This is in the "essense of self-realization" among other books. Evidently he will stay at Hiranyaloka in th astral for a very long time. You can go and see him there if you have nirbikalpa samadhi and have finished your earth karma! Even so, many direct chelas say it was not easy being around Yogananda. People see the sweetness but forget the power of the man. Kriyananda said that few men could handle Yogananda as his power and energy intimidated them. This may contribute to the seemingly larger feminine population in SRF. Kriyananda met Yogananda and the last question he asked him is which of the 3 delusions bother him. Kriyananda said lust. Yogananda said he knew it already and saw it in his eyes but he wanted to test him to see if he would be honest. Then Yogananda gave him the discipleship vows. This was a good lesson to me. It helped me remember that Satyananda was the first rep of Master I met and he told me about honesty. Babaji told Lahiri before he initiated anyone "first be sure he is honest". Satyananda told me twice that only honest people get God realization. I didn't know what he meant. It was sort of like when Roy Davis met Master and he told him "this is not a path of escapism you know". Roy said Yes, he knew. But did he really? I certainly didn't understand for many years. I think he told Norm Paulsen that on this path we must assume responsibility. As I see it these 3 are all related and united in tantra: honesty, no escapism and responsibility. Now 10 years into the path I am finally understanding what the guru really is --pure consciousness and a flawless mirror and not a big santa claus. And the kriya path is more than socials and an occasional meditation. I have had to face a lot of desires and fears before and after the kundalini woke up. I felt like I was in the Lord of the Rings battling Oruki thugs. Repression of faults and desires out of judgement and fear, posing to appear righteous, and venting on subordinates or family is a cycle of action too often seen. (especially in ashrams and churches) No good comes of it. If you are on a ego trip--forget progress on the spiritual path--its the worst! But being "right" is a high stronger than cocaine. Look at fundies of all religions and terrorists. It is a protection against deep fear. You can cut the fear in most western ashrams with a knife. Lean on a rule too hard and it will break. But everyone wants a rule!--someone tell me the rules so I can feel good if I obey it. SILLY. Do kriya. One must face all the darkness and see it as kali. No escape by meditating all day when

there is no concentration. This is what Daya Ma, Kriyananda, and Ram Das all had to realize. As often as they tried to meditate alot, the guru pulled them into more work. All 3 were told that karma yoga was their path this life and all 3 balked. When Kriyananda 1st came to the ashram he sais he was meditating 3 hours morn and eve. Then Guruji got him on this work kick out at 29 Palms and had him doing 1/2 hour in the morn and 2 hours at night. He told him to work like lightening at editing but do not change a word! I was placed in a similar spot. This was to flush out selfish habits he was trying to hide from in meditation for himself and ultimately made him attune to the guru. Getting rid of laziness (tamas)ego selfishness (rajas)and attunement to the guru by intuition is vital to go on to the advanced stages. All areas of life must be spiritualized--family, sex, work--etc. At this stage I very much think of kriya as a tantric path as some in Benaras called it Shyamachurn Tantra. The kriya technique is a tantric technique and the lifestyle that is most effective is a tantric one in my view. The world must be embraced and not feared. Otherwise you are seperate from divine mother and cant unite in meditation. Renunciation out of fear does not produce results. The only real sanyas is attained in deep states of paravasta--so says Lahiri. I have seen only a handful of ashramites that aren't prideful. The ocher robe gives most people a false pride and it would have myself also! No one has any business wearing it but the realized. Chidananda of Divine Life in Rishikesh said that in the old days you got it when enlightened. He told my friend this. Mr Dubey of YSS passed up sanyas and said to Ma to give him yogacharya instead as people worship sannyasis and he did not want it going to his head. Smart man! What is more valuable? Supposedly Bejoy Dasgupta was taken to see Yukteswar to get 2nd kriya by Satyananda. When Bejoy saw him he said 'I don't want to get kriyas from such an old man!' Yukteswar laughed and warmly welcomed him. I suppose it was because he was so honest and fearless. That story is at yoganiketan. Everyone has addictions until merged in God. This is also a hard reality to deal with. Anandamoy says kriya plus devotion but I think kriya and honesty may be better. A superficial sweetness is not enough and honesty may be the foundation of devotional surrender. Yogananda said "practice kriya night and day" but he only allowed the amount one could do with concentration. At present I am trying to figure out what that is for myself. I do not want to do huge numbers of kriya and brag on it. That would induce pride also.