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AoA,
The last year haj of Holy Prophet Hazrat Muhammad PBUH 9th Zilah was Friday .and 12th Rab-ul-
Awal was monody. Can you draw chart of theses four months to prove that 12 Rab-ulAwal
was Monday. How can we prove.
Best wishes,
Sanaullah Bhutta,Managing Partner, Al-Kausar Agencies,
Offcie # 8 -Second Floor,
Al-Shifa Plaza 6th / Murree Road Rawalpindi.
Fax.+92-51 484 1664 - 4427715
al-kausar@cyber.net.pk. bhutta@cyber.net.pk
………………………………………………..
From: sultan alam sultanalam_74@yahoo.com
Wa alaikumussalam
Kindly read the attached Urdu article and comment.
Wassalam, Sultan
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Wednesday, February 4, 2009 9:32 PM
From: "Sanaullah Bhutta" <bhutta313@gmail.com>
Sir. Thank you very much .Allah The Mighty will bless you.
Best wishes,
Bhutta
……………………
Wednesday, February 4, 2009 11:46 AM
From: "Omar Afzal" <omarafzal1@yahoo.com>
Dear Br. Sultan Alam Sahib, Salaam
Those who have tried to unlock the knot of early
Islamic dates have found that:
1. There was no fixed lunar calendar in Makkah or Medina.
The only fixed calendar was the Jewish calendar in Medina.
2. The lunar month began by the earliest lunar visibility, and
the earliest visibility differed from place to place.
3. Mistakes in counts of days were quite prevalent, especially
when the Hilal was not seen in the first 2-3 days .
Hence a conclusion based on calculating the four months
(D.Hijja - Rabi I) by 30/29 days and rejecting a 31 days month
is incorrect.
For a detailed discussion of early Islamic dates please see Ishaq-un Nabi
in the NUQUSH (Rasul number v.2 (Dec. 1982: page:199-203),
Sabri's Miftah al-Taqweem. (1977); Wustnfeld (German: 1926) (Urdu:
1939) etc.
It is quite possible that the Hilal was not seen in Medina on the
30th evening and the previouws month became 31 days long.
This discrepancy is found in many other Islamic dates.
Wallahu A'alam.
Omar Afzal
…………………………….
Thursday, February 5, 2009 12:30 AM
From: "sultan alam" <sultanalam_74@yahoo.com>
Dear Dr Omar
Wa alaikumussalam
Look at the attached curves and on the pure scientific visibility based research, please
write the 1st date of each month according to Makkah or Madinah & Prove 12 Rabee-ul-
Awwal 11 A.H. on Monday.
Wassalam
Sultan
Thursday, February 5, 2009 3:27 AM
From: "Khalid Shaukat" <shaukat@moonsighting.com>
Wa alaikumus salam wa rahmatullah,
I have written about this on an answer to Question 13.3 on
http://moonsighting.com/faq_ms.html#Dates
Khalid Shaukat
………………………
Thursday, February 5, 2009 4:18 AM
From: "sultan alam" <sultanalam_74@yahoo.com>
Dear Br Khalid Shaukat
Wa alaikumussalam
It means you accept that astronomically, 12 Rabee-ul-Awwal 11 A.H. can not occur on
Monday.
Wassalam
Sultan
…………………………
Thursday, February 5, 2009 7:24 AM
From: "Omar Afzal" <omarafzal1@yahoo.com>
Dear Br. Sultan,
Thanks for the visibility curves of the four months in AH 11.
Those who are trying to fix the date by lunar visibility calculation
in Medina must keep that only the "day" is reported with some
certainty. The date was calculated backwards many centuries later.
There are several issues with the early Islamic calendar dates/days
as is evident from the discussions among the Western Islamic dates
experts as well as the Muslim chroniclers..
As I mentioned earlier, Ishaq-un Nabi Alvi's book on the topic
is available in English as well. He attempted to solve the discrepancies
between the (approx.) calendars used in Makkah/ Medena as well
as the Jewish calendar dates. He has trcaed the reasons for variations
in early Islamic dates. (For Urdu readers I mentioned his article in
Nuqush (my earlier e-mail))
The curves assume the validity of the "backward calculated dates"
as well as the "probable lunar visibility" in Medina (both problematic).
The basic reference point: "lunar visibility in Medina" in those four months
may not only be uncertain but even the length of the month may be 31 days.
There was no system to report and correct the mistakes in the sightings
of the previous month.
Kuraib's Hadith, reports of claims by Hadrat Anas (RA),
Hadrat Umar (RA) not accepting the claims, including that of Hadrat Anas (RA),
Hadrat Abu Ayyub Ansari (RA) reaching Makkah by his sighting (a day later
than in Makkah) to miss the day of Hajj, etc. provide enough insights. But
we conveniently ignore all these indications to justify our "position".
Omar Afzal
………………………………
Thursday, February 5, 2009 10:13 AM
From:"sultan alam" <sultanalam_74@yahoo.com>
Dear Dr Omar
Wa alaikumussalam
Well, let the readers and researchers free to think and judge something themselves.
Wassalam
Sultan
……………………..
Thursday, February 5, 2009 12:48 PM
From: "Mashallah Ali-Ahyaie" <mashalah@gmail.com>
Dear Br Sultan Alam,
Salaam,
Greetings; relying on the reported days by historian is
much more correct than relying on dates for obvious reasons,
explained by others, and implied in my article.
Please kindly tell us from which software, you have
obtained your curves. I am asking this since as it was
discussed long back, a certain software was erred on the
onset date of the Islamic lunar calendar. Why don't you
check this important point on your applied software?
Best regards,
Mashallah
………………………….
Thursday, February 5, 2009 10:32 PM
From: "sultan alam" <sultanalam_74@yahoo.com>
Salaam
Sultan
………………………
Friday, February 6, 2009 1:17 AM
From: "Mashallah Ali-Ahyaie" <mashalah@gmail.com>
Dear Br Sultan Alam,
Salaam,
I think you agree now that one shouldn't try to fix both day
and dates together, as reported in history, due to so many
mistakes on dates, due to then incorrect fixing of the lunar
months, like the current era.
Best regards,
Mashallah
……………………….
Friday, February 6, 2009 8:31 AM
From: "sultan alam" <sultanalam_74@yahoo.com>
Dear Br Mashaallah
Salaam
1. Now I am sure that you are 99.99 % agree with Dr. Omar Afzal. Ok, nice.
2. Onset issue should also be discussed but separately, thus if you are interested then
kindly submit the question to our group and look what they reply.
3. As I think that now there is no more discussable thing regarding this issue of “12
Rabee-ul-Awwal 11 A.H. on Monday” hence Inshaallah after some days after
compiling I shall put our this discussion on my web for reference in future to save
the time in future.
Wassalam
Sultan
…………………….
Friday, February 6, 2009 8:32 AM
From: "Omar Afzal" <omarafzal1@yahoo.com>
Dear Br. Sultan Alam Sahib,
Salaam
Bukhari in Hadith # 4108 mentions the day:Yaum al-Ithnain
(Monday) when the Prophet (SAW) peeked through the
curtain of Hadrat Aisha's chamber.
Omar Afzal
……………………………..
Friday, February 6, 2009 10:19 AM
Salaams,
This may be of assistance. Remember that the 1st Dhul Hijjah 10 AH began on a
Thursday in Makkah, but on the Friday in Madinah.
MADINAH MUHARRUM 11 AH
MADINAH SAFAR 11 AH
Wassalaam
Dr Abdurrazak Ebrahim
Cape Town
…………………………….
Saturday, February 7, 2009 1:26 AM
From: "sultan alam" <sultanalam_74@yahoo.com>
Wa Alaikumussalam
It is Very plausible proof. Personally I appreciate you. If somebody has any objection
then please let us know.
Wassalam
Sultan
……………………………
Tuesday, February 24, 2009 5:03 AM
From: "Max Fazel" maxfazel@hotmail.co.uk
salaam all,
i have posted this before on ICOP and got interested feedback from br Marshallah and br
Omar Afzal....i post here again and attach the word doc for ease of reading...
Please see the below table showing the crescent ages in the last year of the prophet 632 AD in
Medina. Particular interest is:
2) the sighting of the hilal for Dhul-Hijja on 26 Feb when the moon age was only 18.5 hr and a lag
time of only 34 mins!
3) and the sighting of Rabbi-al-awal (the month in which the prophet (s.a.w) died.
The only thing that does not really add up is the death of the prophet reported to be on 12 Rabi-
al-awal ? from hadith this should be a Monday (but the below shows it could only be Saturday or
Sunday ! but it does clearly show that the conjunction of the moon could not have been used to
begin the months as then Hajj would not fall on the Friday etc…
Wasalaam
Maqsood
*partial solar eclipse at time of prophet (see below diagram which br Mashallah provided
some time ago in one of his papers)
** MUST have been seen on this day (18.5hr crescent) for 9 Dul-Hijja to fall on Friday
(prophets last sermon was at Arafa on 9th on the Friday))
*** 1st of Rabbi-al-Awal was Tues 26 May, prophet (saw) died 12 Rabbi-Al-Awal which is
6th June = Saturday or
IF 1st Rabbi-al-Awwal was Wed 27 May then 12th = Sunday (hadith states the prophet
died 12th on the Monday).
…………………………..
Wednesday, February 25, 2009 6:52 AM
From:"sultan alam" <sultanalam_74@yahoo.com>
Dear Brothe Maqsood (Maxfazel
Are you not satisfied by the explanation of Dr Abdurrazzaq that 12th Rabee-ul-awwal of
11 AH can occur on Monday?
Sultan
……………………
Wednesday, February 25, 2009 12:27 PM
From: "Mashallah Ali-Ahyaie" <mashalah@gmail.com>
Dear Br. Sultan Alam,
Salaam,
Best regards,
Mashallah
………………….
Thursday, February 26, 2009 12:03 AM
From: "sultan alam" <sultanalam_74@yahoo.com>
26 Feb 632 sighting in Makkah is not an issue especially when there were no
pollution and artificial lights of our age.
Wassalam
Sultan
………………………
Thursday, February 26, 2009 9:04 AM
From: "Omar Afzal" <omarafzal1@yahoo.com>
Dear All,
Salaam
I diverted your attention to the discussions about the Hajjatul-Wida
date by some other experts like Dr. Hamidullah, Ishaqun Nabi, Sabri,
Ahmad Raza Khan Barelvi,etc.
Those who can read Urdu must read p.198-199 of Nuqush Rasul
number2 (1982). Below is a rough summary:
- Ibn S'ad narrates that the Prophet (SAW) started from Medina on
D. Q'ada 25. Wustenfeld (1926)calculates the Ist of D. Qada 10 AH
as Wed., making Saturday as 25th.
- Ibn Sa'd: The Prophet (SAW) reached Murr-al-Zahraan on Tuesday.
Hadrat Ibn Abbas and Hadrat Jabir (RAnhum) both narrate that it was
4th. of D. Hijja.
If Tuesday, was the 4th. of D. Hijja then Ist of D. Hijja was on Sat.
making Sunday, the 9th.of D. Hijja
**
Maulana Ahmad Raza Barelvi who was well-versed in Math and astronomical
calculations concluded that "Astronomically, Friday could never be 9th of D. Hijja."
If the data given above is correct, then a Hilal could NOT be VISIBLE in Makkah or
Medina on Feb. 26.
It is not only the age but the altitude (4 degrees) and lag of 34 minutes.
If the Hilal was SEEN in Makkah, or on the way from Medina to Makkah on
Thursday, Feb. 27, making Friday the first of D. Hijja, then Sat. was the 9th.
Ishaqun Nabi (Nuqush p. 197) also mentions Feb. 28 as the fist date of D. Hijja
by Madani Hijri Calendar, but the month as Jumada II by Makki calendar. The
Prohet (SAW)'s words:
Inna-z Zamaan-a qad istadaara....
might also refer to making Madani calendar the base for Islamic calendar.
Wallahu 'alam.
Omar Afzal
CFCO Intl.
…………………….
Thursday, February 26, 2009 11:47 AM
From: "Omar Afzal" <omarafzal1@yahoo.com>
Dear All,
Salaam
26 Feb 632 sighting in Makkah is not an issue
Omar Afzal
……………………………..
Thursday, February 26, 2009 1:12 PM
From:"Mashallah Ali-Ahyaie" <mashalah@gmail.com>
Dear Br Sultan Alam,
Salaam,
Greetings; please don't go away from Mr. Maqsood's Table,
before reaching to a solid conclusion, in all respects.
But, there is a solid conclusion from this Table, for the time
being, when Br Maqsood writes: "but it does clearly show
that the conjunction of the moon could not have been used to
begin the months as then Hajj would not fall on the Friday
etc… " This point is a very good guide for those not yet
correcting the onset of the Islamic Lunar Calendar, based on
naked eye sightings, in their web site. Saying this, I want to
emphasise once again that various issues are interconnected.
Best regards,
Mashallah
Sorry please read May 27, 11 A.H.,
as May 27, 632 C.E.
................................
Thursday, February 26, 2009 9:42 PM
From: "sultan alam" <sultanalam_74@yahoo.com>
Dear Br Mashaallah
I think explanation of Dr Abdurrazzaq is astronomically absolutely correct. Yes
astronomically due to weather, visibility of moon can be different in 2 places.
Sultan
……………………………..
Thursday, February 26, 2009 11:55 PM
From: "sultan alam" <sultanalam_74@yahoo.com>
Dear Dr Omar
Wa alaikumussalam
Kindly answer in yes or No that astronomically the explanation of Dr Abdurrazzaq is
correct or not?
Sultan
………………………
Friday, February 27, 2009 12:53 AM
From: "Mashallah Ali-Ahyaie" <mashalah@gmail.com>
Dear All,
Salaam,
Salaam,
Salaam,
Best regards,
Mashallah
……………………………
Friday, February 27, 2009 4:25 AM
From: "sultan alam" <sultanalam_74@yahoo.com>
Dear Br Mashaallah.
Wassalam
Sultan
………………………..
Friday, February 27, 2009 5:22 AM
From: "Omar Afzal" <omarafzal1@yahoo.com>
Dear Br. Sultan Alam Sahib,
Salaam
In my opinion, a sighting on Feb. 26 (Wed.) is out of question.
The data:
Wed 26 Feb** 18.5h 34min 8degrees 25m 4degrees
Khalid Shaukat
…………………….
Friday, February 27, 2009 6:48 AM
From: "Khalid Shaukat" <shaukat@moonsighting.com>
Here is the second part of my Islamic dates of the last four months of
the life of the beloved Prophet (SAW).
Ibn S'ad (v.2:p 136) mentions Sat.10th Rabi-I as the day the Muslims
in Usama's jaish took leave from the Prophet (SAW), and his death was
on Monday, 12th of Rabi-I
1.12th Rabi I of year 632 was a Monday by the Medina Hijri calendar.
2. It is Monday only if Rabi I began on May 27, and not on May 26.
The conclusion: MONDAY was the 12th of Rabi-I and that appears to be
the correct date of the Prophet (SAW)'s death.
Omar Afzal
Best regards,
Mashallah
………………………
Friday, February 27, 2009 2:19 PM
From: "Omar Afzal" <omarafzal1@yahoo.com>
Dear All,
Sorry I messed up the dates for some by taking out a crucial word. I have added
it in blue below. Please read:
2/28/09 Here is the second part of my Islamic dates of the last four months of the life of the beloved Prophet (SAW).
Ibn S'ad (v.2:p 136) mentions Sat.10th Rabi-I as the day the Muslims in Usama's jaish took leave from the Prophet
(SAW), and his death was on Monday, 12th of Rabi-I
1. 12th Rabi I of year 632 was a Monday by the Medina Hijri calendar.
2. It is Monday only if Rabi I began on May 27 evening, and not on May 26 evening.
Obviously, the Rabi-I Hilal could NOT be visible in Medina on May 25, as the the lunar Altitude at the sunset was only
3 degrees, besides the angle: 9 degrees. The Lag was also at the lower margin (48+ min) and the Age only 21 hours.
(People of Medina missed seeing the Hilal in the evening of May 26. They counted Ist of Rabi-I from Thursday, May
28.
Muslim historians have noted this "one day later" discrepancy about a lot of events)
The conclusion: MONDAY was the 12th of Rabi-I and that appears to be the correct date of the Prophet (SAW)'s death.
N.B. Kulaini also states: (Thumma qubid-al-ithnai 'asharata lailatan madat min
Rabi al-Awwal yaum al-Ithnain (Abwaab al-Tarikh) " He died on the 12th. night
of Rabi-I, the day of Monday.)
www.islamicmoon.com
…………………………….
Friday, February 27, 2009 9:16 PM
From: "Mashallah Ali-Ahyaie" <mashalah@gmail.com>
Dear Br Omar,
Salaam,
I would also say that: "It does clearly show that the
conjunction of the moon could not have been used to begin
the months, during the era of our Beloved Prophet
Mohammad (PBuH) as the 12th of Rabi I, would not have
fallen on Monday, as widely reported by all..."
This point is a very good guide for those not yet correcting
the onset of the ritual Islamic Lunar Calendar (there had
been then only the ritual one in practice), based on the local
naked eye sightings, in their web site. You might remember
that we went through this issue long back without any
tangible result.
Best regards,
Mashallah
……………………..
Saturday, February 28, 2009 1:19 PM
From:"Shaikh, Salman Z (Salman)" <salman@alcatel-lucent.com>
To: "Khalid Shaukat" <shaukat@moonsighting.com>, sultanalam_74@yahoo.com,
moon_sighting@yahoogroups.com
Bismillaahir RahmaanIrRaheem. Alhamdulillaah WasSalaatu WasSalaam Ala
Rasulillaah Wa Ala Aalihi.
Wa Alaykum AsSalaam w.r. w.b.
There is some reasearch on proving that in the Last year of Prophet Muhammad
SAW, the Calendars of Makkah and Medinah were DIFFERENT. This is in a paper by
Sheikh Ibrahim Memon of Darul Ul Uloom Al Madania, Buffalo , New York . The link
was at www.madania.org/english/article_ramadan_moonsighting.php but is not working
now.
Jazakum Allaahu Khayran. WasSalaam.
Salman Zafar Shaikh
salman@baytuliman.org
786salman@gmail.com
Ahsanabad, Karachi.Pakistan
http://www.esnips.com/user/moonsighting
http://www.kulyatushariah.edu.pk/jrks/jsp/
Cell # 00923332213520
The End