1Transcript 1

219th January 2015

3
4Aditya and I went to a village, which is near to our college named Pethapur. This village is
5famous for block carvings for block printing. We went there to explore more crafts that are
6being practiced there by the artisans. First we went to Prakash Bhais shop who is one of the
7famous block makers there. He explained about his work and since how long he has been
8doing this and showed us some of the samples of his work. His younger brother Bharat Bhai
9took show different kinds of crafts that were being practiced in the village. He introduced us to
10an old man, known as Kaaka ji, who was standing in front of a temple. Bharat Bhai told him
11what we were looking for and then Kaaka ji took us to that temple. He told us that the Maharaj ji
12(priest) of this temple himself makes all the ornamental dresses for the gods and goddesses.
13We were quite fascinated to know this because we had never heard or seen a priest doing all
14this for his temple. There were two layers of door at the entrance. One was a blue colored
15metal door that was locked but had a small opening towards the right side and the other was
16just behind it. It was a huge heavy looking wooden door and was very colorful. Right in front
17there was a beautifully decorated temple. One could find all the possible colors there. Towards
18the right side there were three rooms out of which two were open and one was locked. In front
19of the second room there was a black color sewing machine. Probably that was Maharaj jis
20home only.
21
22We met Maharaj ji and told him that we are NID students and wanted to work with him for our
23project and explained everything about it. He was wearing a white colored Dhoti with a grey
24sweater and was wearing spectacles also. Though his hair were jet black but one could make
25out that he dyed them. He might be in his early 60s. I noticed he was wearing a hearing aid in
26his left year. There was a lady also, wearing salwar kameez, might be 35+, who was standing
27next to him. Right now I cannot comment anything about her relationship with Maharaj ji. We
28had a brief discussion with him regarding his work. We got to know that he makes all these
29ornamental dresses not just for his temple but for other temples as well. So other than
30performing rituals in a temple he makes all the ornamental dresses also. He seemed to be
31interested in having a conversation with us regarding his work. He himself went inside and
32brought some of his work. While showing that to us he asked that lady to make tea for us.
33
34We saw some of his creations and they looked amazing. But it was quite strange that Bharat
35Bhai didnt even know about it. While he was showing it, he had a constant smile on his face. It
36made me feel how excited he was.
37
38That lady got tea for all of us in transparent glasses. I could smell the fragrance of tulsi in it.
39While sipping the tea Maharaj ji told us about himself. He told us that he used to stay in a
40village named Koba and shifted to Pethapur 7 years back. Since then he has been performing
41all the rituals in this temple. For the past 30 years he has been working as a priest in different
42temples and he himself made the ornamental dresses for those temples and for other temples
43as well. So in a way he works at two different areas which coincide at a single platform.
44
45We could not see anyone else in his house so we asked him if he was staying alone to which
46he replied that his family had gone somewhere so because of that he has to do some
47household stuff as well.
48

49After all of this conversation we asked him if we could come tomorrow as well. He gave his
50number and asked us to call him before coming. Then we left from there and went back to
51college.

52Transcript 2
5322nd January 2015
54
55Since Maharaj ji asked us to call him before coming so we did the same. We couldnt go the
56other day because he had to go to some wedding.
57
58We reached there at around 3 pm. There was another lady whom we didnt meet during our
59previous visit. She was wearing a floral print saree which she had draped in gujarati style. She
60had a big red colored bindi on her forehead and had made a bun of her jet-black colored hair.
61She was even wearing spectacles. I saw she was wearing silver rings in her feet. Married
62women generally wear these rings. Maharaj ji told us that she was his wife to which she then
63smiled. He used the word aurat for her. Maharaj ji had that classic smile on his face when we
64met him. That smile on his face looked like a very genuine smile and not a fake one. He offered
65us chairs to sit on.
66
67Me : kaise ho Maharaj ji aap?
68Maharaj ji : acha hu (smiling)
69Me: acha maharaj ji aap ko yaha kaam karte hue kitna samay ho gaya?
70Maharaj ji : pehle mai kahi or kaam karta tha aur saat baras ho gaya hai yaha
71Me : aap pehle koba me hi kaam karte the?
72Maharaj ji : haan koba me
73Me : waha kitne saal kaam kia hai aapne?
74Maharaj ji : (after a pause) bees saal
75
76(His expressions changed when I asked that. They were like what we generally make when we
77try to recall something, like a frowning face.)
78
79Me : waha bhi aap yahi kaam karte the?
80Maharaj ji : haan ye kaam karte the or yaha bhi aa kar
81Me : or aapne ye banana kaise seekha? Kisi se seekha ya aapne khud ne hi
82Maharaj ji : kya?
83
84(I guess he could hear properly what I was asking him. He made a frowning face that made me
85feel that he was clueless about the question I had asked him. I then noticed he wasnt wearing
86his hearing aid today. I then repeated myself)
87
88Maharaj ji : nahi khud seekha. Ye kya hai apne hisaab se maine banaya hai. Dekho bada bada
89paag dekhta hu mandiro me waha jaake or mai sochta hu, fir pehle kya karta hu, pehle toh koi
90humari murti ka yaha bhagwan ka maap nikaalta hu ki kaise banta hai. Dekho ye hisaab aa jata
91hai na, ye hisaab aega itna ye sab banata hu, dekho ye hisaab dekhna padta hai( he was
92showing the circumference of the Mukhut he had made . Instantly he had a smile on his face
93when he said apne hisaab se maine banaya hai and his eyebrows raised a little,eyes went a
94little bigger and was nodding his head left and right. This made me feel that he was proud that
95he learnt it himself. Also when he used the word maap he again had a smile on his face.
96Whenever he gave some of his insights in regard to what he does he always had that smile,
97that quick smile.) Ye hisaab aega toh ban jaega. Ye maap hai na soch sochke kia. Pehle toh
98rough kaagaz pe sab kia, chota chota banaya. Aur kaisa banaya? Kacha banaya, pakka nhi.
99Kacha banake isme kya karta tha, aur machine ka kaam nahi karta tha, sui (needle) ka kaam
100karta tha. Haath se banake isko waha mai rakhta. Tab do-teen chaar trial me maap aa gaya ki
101isko esa hi karna hai. Dekho ye maap humara hai ( he measured the circumference of his head
3

102with a measuring tape which was kept on his sewing machine table to demonstrate how he
103takes the measurement to make Mukhut. He could also differentiate between the two sides of
104the measuring tape by seeing the patten on them) ye maap hai na, ye kitna hai, baawis hai
105(placing his index finger on 22 ) 22.
106
107Me : haanji
108Maharaj ji : isme ye maap ata hai na, isme paanch plus kia jaata hai
109Me : paanch inch?
110Maharaj ji : haan paanch
111Me : paanch kisliye?
112Maharaj ji : haan (he said it with a stretch), wo esa hi maap hota hai (laughs) ( with trial and
113error method he analyzed that 5 inches needs to be added to the measurement to make the
114mukhut fit properly) dekho yaha humara bhagwan ka maap hai na wo baarah (12) hai
115Aditya : baarah inch?
116Maharaj ji : haan baarah hai
117
118(he didnt say any unit for the measurement. When we asked him about 5 inch and 12 inch, he
119just agreed to the number 5 and 12. So maybe he knew which side of the measuring tape to
120use and irrespective of the unit he was taking all the measurements. Also he referred to the
121statue of gods in his temple as humara bhagwan, as the size of the mukhut he was showing
122and talking about was the one he made for his temple.)
123
124ye esa hum maapte hai toh baarah ban jaata hai. Or isme dekho maine kya kia satra (17)
125banaya, tum sochlo (laughs). Banega? Nahi banega? Banega tum dekho
126
127(the way he was saying all that it was like he was telling about his secret recipe and would do
128things that doesnt seems to be even near to happening. Then he started cutting the fabric to
129show that whatever he talked about the measurements was right and how he makes it)
130
131Aditya : paanch toh kaafi zada hai Pandit ji
132Maharaj ji : hmmm, haan wohi (laughs) maine ye sab esa kia , kacha kaam karke karke waha
133rakh dia. Wo maap neeche ka, golai ka maap ata hai na, wo baarah hota hai, toh humara maap
134sacha hota hai. Baarah nahi hota hai, chaudha (14) hota hai sola (16) hota hai toh maap nahi
135aega. Kaise maap aega? Lekin ye maap maine kia dekho, ye satra hai na, dekh lia?
136We: hmmm
137Maharaj ji : ye satra hai, pura satra
138
139( he then started making the measurements he took, on a brown colored cardboard sheet
140which he uses to make the ornamental dresses and cut it with scissors. He repeated the same
141thing on a white colored fabric also.)
142
143Maharaj ji : isme paanch inch zada karna hota hai, maap se bhi paanch inch zada karna hota
144hai
145Me : par aapne ye kaise andaaza lagaya ki paanch inch zada karna hota hai
146Maharaj ji : haan( stretching the word and again that smile appeared on his face, when was
147generally visible whenever we asked him anything related to his art or maybe his experience or
148maybe he was confident and proud of something he did) pehle sath se kaam karte hai, pin
149laga dete hai, safety pin aati hai na wo yaha laga dete hai. Dekho or uska yaha ghumaake ese
150kar dete hai. Aur ye golai aati hai na ye baarah ban jaati hai, isiliye esa karna padta hai.
151Samajh gaye?

152
153( he seemed to be very happy after showing that to us. While Maharaj ji was explaining us
154everything, his wife whom we called Kaaki, came out from the kitchen holding a metal kettle in
155her right hand and 3 white saucers in her left hand. I thought she would get the cups in the next
156round to the kitchen and maybe this was her crockery that she uses when someone comes to
157visit them. The other day that another lady served us tea in glasses. So maybe she wasnt a
158part of the family and didnt know about all this.
159She kept one saucer on the right side on the Maharaj jis table and poured the tea into that
160only. And the other two on the floor next to Aditya and me and then poured tea for us in that.
161Aditya and I looked at eachother because we had never had tea like this before. But at the
162same time we didnt even mind having it like that and didnt even make them feel so. The tea
163had strong ginger flavor which I really enjoyed having.)
164
165Aditya : samajh gaya. Toh ye aapne pehle karke dekha hoga fir andaaza aapko maaloom hua
166hoga ki ese hota hai
167Maharaj ji : haan mere hisaab se maine kia hai
168Aditya : shuru shuru me toh kabhi galat ban jaata hoga
169Maharaj ji : ye kaam kya hota hai, monopoly hota hai. Ye dhanda ( business) wale hota hai na
170wo humko nahi batate. Kyun? Humko batate toh hum , humara abhiyas ho jaata, abhiyas ho
171jata toh unse aage bhad jaate, unse aage bhad jaate toh means humara dhanda chalta hai,
172uska dhanda dim ho jata hai. Nahi batate (laughs)
173
174(I was quite shocked to hear the word monopoly from him. I somehow didnt expect him using
175these English words. Maybe because he was staying in a village and I assumed him to be not
176much educated since he was a priest.
177When he was saying humko nahi batate, there was a sudden change in his expressions.
178Somewhere his expressions showed that he was sad about all these things.)
179
180Ye maap hai na kahi book me bhi nahi hota. Guidance kahi se nahi milta , apne seekh seekh
181ke karna padta hai. Guidance mile humko toh wo kaam se bhi zada acha hota hai. Lekin
182guidance humko milta hi nahi (laughs). Ye dhanda wale hote hai na wo nahi batate hai humko.
183Aur usko maaloom ho jaye ki wo ye kaam karta hai na toh wo apna kaam band karke baith jaye
184humari taraf. Humare saath baat cheet karte rehte hai aur kuch nahi
185
186Me : taaki aap dekh na sako ki kaise kaam karte hai?
187Maharaj ji :haan taaki dekh na sake. Hum dekhle toh humko uski practice sab maaloom padd
188jaye. Maaloom padd jaaye toh uska dhanda dim ho jae, humara dhanda acha chale. Esi soch
189hoti hai lekin esa hai nahi.
190Aditya : dusro ko sikhane se apni kala thodi na chali jaegi
191Maharaj ji : haan lekin wo kya hota hai ki uska narrow mind hota hai. Ye sab sochne wale hote
192hai na ye sab narrowmind ke hote hai lekin esa hai nahi. Hai?
193Aditya : nahi
194Maharaj ji : koi baat nahi. Wo koi bhi seekh leta hai toh achi baat hai, usme kya hai. Koi diggad
195hi nahi honi chahiye. Lekin ese soch hoti hai. Dekho Ahmedabad hai na, Ahmedabad me
196mathupur hai, uske peeche wale bhaag me esa sab kaam banta hai. Wo paag (mukhut) toh
197nahi banata, ye toh nahi banta hai lekin dusra bhagwan ke dress esa sab banate hai
198
199( Aditya was sipping the tea and by mistake a little of it spilled on his foot. Maharaj ji noticed
200changed in his expressions)
201

202Maharaj ji : kya hua?

203Aditya : thodi si neeche gir gayi
204Maharaj ji : padd gayi?
205Aditya : haan
206Maharaj ji :toh waha maine bahut try kia seekhne ke liye par maine toh kya hum toh ek dafa
207uski dukaan pe baithe, humara thoda parichay kia, maine bataya ki mereko seekhna hai toh
208usne kaam band kar dia
209Me : kitni purani baat hai ye?
210Maharaj ji : ye baat hai(trying to recollect) bahut purani hai
211Me : yaad nahi hai aapko kitna samay hua
212Maharaj ji : (nodding his head) bahut purani hai. Dekho na tees saal se toh mai ye dhanda kar
213raha hu
214Aditya : toh usse pehle jab aapne seekha hoga tab ki baat hogi
215Maharaj ji : haannn
216Me : toh aapka dhanda shuru karne se pehle ki baat hai ye
217Maharaj ji : haan pehle ki baat hai ye. Usne nahi bataya ( showing his thumb). Mai paitees (35)
218minute baitha toh usne toh kya dusri koi baat humare sath charcha ki or ye
219
220(I feel somewhere he feels bad about why people have such attitude. Whenever he talked
221about it his face would go low, not literally. While talking to us he started talking to his wife in
222gujarati. I think he was asking her to clean the floor where the tea was spilled. For few minutes
223the whole conversation stopped)
224
225Me : kal shadi se kitne baje aaye aap Maharaj ji?
226Aditya : yahi pe kisi ki shadi thi ya aap kahi bahar gaye the
227Maharaj ji : sham ko aa gaya tha mai lekin diggad kya thi, mai aaya toh yaha pe baarish ho
228gayi
229Me : haan kal bahut baarish hui
230Aditya : kaafi acha thanda ho gaya tha kal
231Maharaj ji : haannn
232Me : acha Maharaj ji aap jo ye sab design banate ho, pehle kisi paper pe banate ho ya khud se
233hi seedha.
234Maharaj ji : jo design banti hai wo? Tum dekho. Ye banake mai tumko dikhata hu
235Me : nahi wo naye design banate ho jo wo
236Maharaj ji : naye design? (I think he was confirming what I said. Whenever we asked
237something other than what he was telling us he would repeat it, and look at us, his head a little
238low and eyes looking a little upward, change in his expressions which made me feel that he
239was trying to understand the question inorder to answer it. He was wearing bifocal lens. People
240who wears these kind of spectacles generally do so to make eye contact. Also we might not be
241properly audible to him as he wasnt wearing his hearing aid.)
242Me : haan. Ya aap kahi kuch dekhte ho or fir banate ho
243Maharaj ji : wo toh kya hai wo naye design me toh dekhna padega
244Aditya : jaise ki aapko agar koi naya design banana ho toh aap use khud banake dekhenge
245Me : isi pe banake dekhenge ya pehle kaagaz pe banate hai
246
247( I think he wasnt getting what exactly we were saying. Also we had to repeat it because he
248has hearing problem)
249
250Maharaj ji : esa koi banate nahi but esi ho na koi tasveero ( pointing towards a photograph on
251the calendar hanging on the wall) ko mai dekhe hi. Ki dekho ye kaisa hai, ye banana hai toh

252sochte hai (laughs) fir koi apna esa kaagaz nikaalke (referring to white cloth he had) usme
253thoda ese ese karke( drawing pattern on that cloth), drama banate hai or usko ese cutting karte
254hai. Aur ab toh kya hota hai, isme itni mastery aa gayi hai toh ye toh bahut karna nahi padta,
255pehle bahut karna padta tha ( i think here he was referring to struggle to make something on
256our own)
257
258(he made that pattern to show us how he does it. He asked his wife to get something from
259inside. He was speaking in gujarati with her. He was asking her to get some peacock thing
260from inside.)
261
262Maharaj ji : peacock banaye hai. Peacock
263Aditya : aapki dharam patni ko bhi aata hai kya ye sab?
264Maharaj ji : (showing what he was making) ye dekho ban gaya. Isko hum kya karte hai ki hum
265isko chipka dete hai. Stone hota hai na, wo solution hota hai, solution bhi humare paas hai
266( referring to a solution he uses for pasting. From his expressions, his smile and the way he
267said this I felt that). Jab banega na tumko maaloom ho jaega sab. Stone samajhte ho?
268Me : haan haan
269Maharaj ji : kya hota
270Aditya : wo yellow color ka jo hota hai
271Maharaj ji : nahi wo stone hota hai na jo lagate hai, tumhari dress me lagate hai
272Me : wo alag alag rang ke jo hote hai
273Maharaj ji : haan. Wo lagate hai na
274
275(Kaaki then brought a blue plastic bag which had his different creations to show it to us)
276
277Maharaj ji : ye dekho
278
279( he looked very happy and excited to show all of that to us)
280
281Aditya : maharaj ji ye toh bahut acha kia hai aapne
282Maharaj ji : haan ye sab maine kia hai ! ( there was a little volume and heaviness in his voice
283when he said that. That proud feeling was visible in his tone). wo toh kaapad( kapda or cloth) hi
284tha, dekho esa kaapad tha (showing the fabric that he used to make that)
285
286(Kaaki then showed everything one by one to us. I sat down to have a closer look at them)
287
288Me : toh ye aap mandir me bichane ke liye hai
289Kaaki : haan( then she said something in gujarati which I couldnt understand)
290Maharaj ji : haan ye humare bhagwan ke hai (laughs). Haan ( smiles!. ) humare bhagwan ke
291liye hai ( he looked very happy about it and was continuously admiring it) pehle toh maine kya
292kia humare bhagwan ke sab jitne bhi design humare magaj me thi na wo isme kardi, kyun?
293Taaki humari jaahiraat ho jaye. Jab jab humare paas graahak aate hai, hum batate hai esa
294banana hai itna paisa lagega, ye banana hai esa lagega. Or baadme maine kya kia ye sab
295maine banaya wo baad me banake jab jab koi ata hai grahak toh mai bulata hu. Dekho tumhe
296kal ana ho toh tum kal aoge, kal aoge toh mai kya karta hu ki ye tumko pasand aayi toh mai
297sham ko subah me mai ye sab dress bhagwan ko pehna dunga. Or tum jab aoge na toh tumhe
298dikhata hu ki kaisa lagega. Wo khush ho jata hai. Mereko toh kahi kahi se inaam bhi mila hua
299hai
300Aditya : inaam bhi mila hai aapko
301Maharaj ji : haan ji. Inaam bhi mil gaya hai humko

302Kaaki : haan maharaj ko inaam bhi mila

303Maharaj ji : bahut bada inaam nahi, lekin humare toh kya ek rupiya bhi mile na toh humari
304kadar hoti hai. (I think he was happy and satisfied that his work was being appreciated and
305what made him feel even more happy and proud of his work was that he himself learnt
306everything). Dekho ek gaon tha nardipur gaon. Nardipur me maine banaya
307Aditya : bhagwan ke kapde
308Maharaj ji : haan bhagwan ke kapde. Usne humko che hazaar rupiye ( 6000 rs) diye or
309humare charcha karke karke paanch pachaas rakhe, paanch paanso(5500) or maine banaya.
310Mai jake usko banake, wo bola ki tum maharaj ji fit kardo. Maine fit kia or fir jab fit kia na gyarah
311sau (1100) inaam dia(laughs).
312Aditya: unhone firse diya
313Maharaj ji : haan. Paanch paanso toh de diya lekin gyarah sau rupiya bhi diya. Wo hi hai
314humara inaam (laughs). Ye kya baat hai ki jab khush ho jata hai na, tum apne tareeko se kaam
315humare paas karana chahte ho lekin tumhare se bhadkar bhi kaam hota hai na toh aadmi
316khush ho jata hai. Do teen bar esa hua hai. Humare tees baras ki service me keval do teen bar
317hume esa anubhav hua hai (laughs) esa hota hai (laughs)
318Aditya : maharaj ji humare college me ek din aake aap class le sakte ho
319Maharaj ji : haan? (he couldnt hear what Aditya said)
320Aditya : ek din humare college me ek class le sakte hai, sab sikha sakte hai
321Maharaj ji : kya? (I guess he still couldnt listen it properly so Aditya once again repeated
322himself)
323Tumhare college me? Kxaha hai ye
324Aditya : ye GH-0 pe
325Me : yahi gandhinagar me
326Maharaj ji : GH-0? ( from his tone he seemed to have recognized the place)
327Kaaki : haan haan infocity aagat
328Maharaj ji : infocity? Haann
329( I didnt feel if he still understood it completely)
330Aditya : kitne ache aapne ye banaye hai
331Maharaj ji : kya? ( he again couldnt hear it properly)
332Kaaki : acha banaya hai (she spoke it a bit louder so dat he could hear it properly)
333Maharaj ji : haan wo toh acha banaya hai, acha banaya hai ( he looked a little confused,
334maybe he coudnt understand what we were talking about)
335Aditya : kaafi acha banaya hai
336Maharaj ji : haan kaafi acha banaya hai. Wo isme kya hai na isme hum sab rakhte hai, isme
337hum solution laga dete hai ( opening a drawer to show it) isme toh silaai lagti hai (pointing at
338embroided patch). Usko rakhke machine laga dia or ye hai na isme humne solution rakha hai
339( he was showing his different techniques for different kind of work. And he and aditya came
340and sat down where I and Kaaki were sitting) ye tika laga dia (laughs) sab teeka humne lagaya
341hai. Ye design humne banai hai (I could again feel a sense of achievement and proud feeling in
342his tone)
343Wo toh ese hi kaapad tha, dekho plain hi kaapad tha, lekin ye design humne banayi hai
344Me : ye aapne kahi dekha tha ya khud se banaya hai
345Kaaki : na kahi dekhya nahi
346Maharaj ji : humne na kahi dekha nahi. Maine soch kia (kaaki smiled at this) ki esa banaenge
347toh kaisa lagega. Toh mai jab jab humari soch hoti hai na toh isme kya mai banata hu toh bahut
348acha hi lagta hai (laughs) mereko acha lagta hai. Jab mereko acha lagta hai na tab sab khush
349ho jaate hai.
350
351( he then picked one of his creation from that bag and showed to us)

352Aditya : ye toh bahut acha hai

353Maharaj ji : ye humne banaya na, usne humko baarah hazar rupiya(12000) diya
354Me : ye jinke liye aapne banaya hai?
355Maharaj ji : haan ji. Wo ye sab banana ka, ye sab pura dress hai, sab bhagwan ki. Aur ye sab
356saat aath hazaar (7000-8000) me ban jaata hai lekin usne humko baarah hazaar rupiya de dia.
357Ye dekho isko toh ek baras bhi nahi hua
358Or ye banana walo Bombay hai. Yaha hai hi nahi
359Aditya : acha mandir uska Bombay me hai?
360Maharaj ji : nahi wo toh bahut bada builder hai. Jisne banaya hai na jisne banwaya hai wo hi
361Bombay rehte hai. Yaha ki girls hai na, wo unke ghar me hai. Yaha ka jamaai (son-in-law) hai
362wo, pethapur ka
363Aditya : acha! Ladki yaha se byahi hai
364Maharaj ji : haan
365
366( this made me feel that how he feels that the entire village is like a family. Instead of referring
367that person as someone elses son in law he said yaha ka)
368
369wo ek dafa yaha aaye mandir me aur ye humara dress dekha, usne mujhko bulaya, mai toh
370kaam kar raha tha, yaha aaya, bithaya,chai pilaya. Humare ko banana hai, kitna lagega, zada
371me zada( he was talking about that guy from bombay). Tum jo chaaho jitna paise kharcho utna
372bana dunga. Saat aath hazaar rupiya ho jaega esa maine bola. Koi bata ni banao jitna lagega
373mai dunga.
374Mai banaya fir waha Diwali ke dusre teesre din aya aur dekha baarah hazaar rupiya de dia.
375Dekho esi baat hai (laughs) humne kia hi nahi tha ki humko baarah hazaar tum do, wo khush
376ho gaya, khush ho gaya humko de diya toh humne le lia (laughs)
377Me : toh abhi wo lene aenge ye saara samaan
378Maharaj ji : hain?
379(Aditya repeated what I said to him)
380Kaaki : na saaman maharaj ke liye hai
381Me : ye le kab jaenge fir wo?
382Maharaj ji : ye le nahi jaenge, ye sab humare bhagwan ke liye kiya hai
383
384( Aditya and I thought that that Bombay guy asked Maharaj ji to make it for him so that he could
385take it for his mandir)
386Maharaj ji : samajh gaye?
387Aditya : haan haan
388Maharaj ji : tum aaye acha hua, tumko bhagwan ke bhav hua hai or bole Maharaj ji tum apne
389taraf se banao, toh kya tum le jaoge? Nahi le jaoge (laughs)
390Me : nahi hume laga ki unhone apne mandir ke liye banwaye hai aapse
391Maharaj ji : humara trust hai na usko toh pramaan patra dia hai. Usne pramaan patra dia hai.
392Humare paas uski nakal (copy) hai
393Me : kya likha hai usme?
394Maharaj ji : usme likha hai ki aapka samman kia hai, banana wale ka, humare mandir ki taraf
395se sammaan kia hai usko ( I could again see that enlightening smile on his face which he had
396earlier when he was talking about kadar)
397Wo hai mere paas, mai dikhau
398Me : haanji dikhaiye
399
400( he then went inside to a room which was near the main temple entrance. He always looked
401every excited to show his work or anything related to what he does.)

402
403Aditya : aunty aap bhi banate ho kya iski? Dono milke aap banate ho?
404Kaaki : madad karadu, maharaj ki
405Me : baaki sab maharaj ji khud karte hai na
406Kaaki : haan haan
407Aditya : toh aapko kaisa lagta hai maharaj ji ese kapde banate hai. Acha lagta hai maharaj ji
408ese kapde banate hai sundar sundar
409Kaaki : (laughs!....she said something in gujarati which I couldnt understand clearly)
410
411( then maharaj ji came from inside holding a crisp white paper in his hand. He showed that to
412us, since it was written in gujarati we couldnt read it ourselves, so he read it for us. The paper
413was in such a good condition that it seemed as if he got that sometime back only, with no folds
414on it or maybe he had kept it in a safe place.
415He then started showing his work that kaaki had got from inside.)
416
417Maharaj ji : ye dekho kya hai,dupatta. Jaise hum rakhte hai na, narendra modi rakhte
418hai( everybody laughs) . dekho isme murti nahi hai toh bhi ye humara banaya hua kaise lagta
419hai dekho,murti hai hi nahi lekin khade rehte hai, padd ni jaate(laughs)
420(he would always laugh out of joy whenever he told something that had his techniques and
421experience in it.) choti si murti ati hai wo waha rakhi hai. Jab Krishna ka janam hota hai na tab
422pehnate hai ise, or jhoola me rakhke jhoolate hai. Mai dekhta hu toh koi mandir me esa jhoola
423nahi hai, esa jhoola humare paas hai, bahut kalaatmak. Iski kala tum dekhoge na toh dekhte
424reh jaoge, esi kala hai isme, bahut achi
425Aditya : wo jhoola kisne banaya hai maharaj ji
426Maharaj ji : banaya?
427Aditya : haan kisne banaya hai
428Maharaj ji : ye toh humko maaloom nahi. Ye mandir hai na toh wo bolte hai dhaai sau baras ho
429gaya. Ye hai na ye pura state tha ,Thakur sahib thi uski hakumat chalti thi, british government
430me.
431
432( he then told us some story about pethapur and its fort and about the kings family. He then
433told about some chetan das maharaj for whom he said that he had ishvariya Shakti. He was
434then telling about ram dev mandir for which he made some ornamental dresses and
435saidwaha humari kala hai and was giving details of the work he did there.)
436
437Maharaj ji : jab tum yaha pe ao or humse puchoge ki kitna time lagega ise banana me toh mai
438ek months batata hu. Kyun? Hum abhi toh kisi ka kaam chal raha hai, dekho ek kaam chal raha
439hai aur kaam aa jae toh mai ye kaise band kar sakta hu (laughs). Ye bhi time table rakhna
440padta hai. Or jab bahut kaam aa jata hai na toh mai raat ko bhi kaam chaalu rakhta hu
441Me: ye sab kaam aap kahi likhke rakhte hai?
442Maharaj ji : haan, sabka kaam hai na karke rakhta hu. Koi jaldi bole toh nahi karta, usko chorh
443deta hu ki nahi banega. Ek baar koi aya tha na ki Diwali pe chahiye, jo paisa lagega lelo.
444Humne kaha nahi banega. Jo chahe lelo,humne kaha nahi banega. Ye koi jaadu mantar wala
445khel toh hai nahi ki hum bana de. Usne bahut bola, wo chala gaya, dusre din aya wo chala
446gaya, teesre din aya wo chala gaya, maine nahi banaya, kaise bana deta, yaha kaam chalta
447tha dusre gaon wale ka, dhinkucha gaon ka
448Maine bola jab tum aoge tab tees din humko deo toh tumhara banega. Fir saath(60) din ke
449pehle aaye wo, maine le lia kaam,wok hush ho gaye. Wo bhi esa hi banaya hai(laughs) wo
450bahut khush ho gaye
451Me : aap ye sab banana ka kitne paise lete hai?

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452Maharaj ji : wo toh dekho na ye humara mandir hai na, ye humara mandir paanch hazaar me
453banta hai. Ye latest banana hai toh aath hazzar me(8000) hota hai. Wo ram dev ji ka mandir hai
454na usme tees hazaar (30,000) kharch hua hai. Sab kaapad unhi ka tha or maine chaar paanch
455so (4500) liye the, mazduri ke.
456Mai jitna bolta hu na mujhe utna de dete hai, aur mai kya hai mai esa karta hu ki kisi ke paas
457zada paisa nahi leta, humare hisaab se jo hota hai wo hi leta hu. Dekho baarah hazaar hota hai
458toh mai pandhra(15) bolu toh pandhra de dete hai. Lekin ese acha nahi hota hai, ye maalik hai
459na ye khush nahi rahega. Hum khush hai, humare parivar se khush hai, humare ladke se
460khush hai or humari soch Shakti hai na usne di toh ese kisi ko rulane k liye nahi, hasaane ke
461liye di hai esi soch hai humari, sabko khush karne ke liye hai kisi ko diggad karne ke liye nahi
462(laughs) ye humara jeevan hi esa hai, mandiro me kaam karte hai toh humare kaam se koi
463khush ho jaye toh bas yahi humaari moodi hai. Dekho sabne taali bajai, hum khush ho gaya.
464Ye kaam kia tum khush ho gaye, tum yaha gaye haste haste gaye toh hum khush ho jaenge,
465esi baat hai. Paisa toh kya hai do number karte hai na usko bhi milta hai, ye mazduri nahi karni
466padti hai lekin ye achi baat nahi hai. Dekho achi baat hai? Achi baat nahi hai
467
468( he started making a mukhut on his sewing machine to give us a demo of how he works and
469different techniques he uses to make it and was talking to us about what we do and was telling
470different stories about the village and the work they do. He was appreciating others work also.)
471
472Aditya : pandit ji aap school gaye the bachpan me? Konsi kaksha tak padhe hai
473Maharaj ji : maine? Old ssc. Humare paas certi hai aur maine paas ki na old ssc tab toh mujhe
474naukri bhi milti thi.
475Me : kis cheez ki naukri mili thi aapko?
476Maharaj ji : pehle toh isme milti thi, gujarati teacher me.
477Me : toh wo aapne nahi kari?
478Maharaj ji : nahi kari, uska pagaar hi nahi tha,saath(60) rupiya. Aur mai jab padhta tha na toh
479mai esa seekh leta tha
480Aditya : ye sab bhi kar lete the tab aap?
481Maharaj ji : haan haan. Humare father the na wo esa rakhte the machine or humari choti
482behna hai, sister, teen. Toh kya pehle toh toys, ramakda hota hai na, choti choti bachiya aur wo
483un putle ke saath khelte hai. Uska mai dress banata tha( laughs). Wo dolls hoti thi na mai uska
484kapda banata tha (laughs)
485Aditya : toh apni sister ko banake dete the
486Maharaj ji : haan usko banake, usko pehna ke or usko de deta tha. Toh humari choti behna thi
487na wo uske sath khelti thi, ese humari shuruwat hui
488Me : toh aap milte rehte hai apni behno se
489Maharaj ji : (very happily he said) haan kal mila tha shadi me, humari behna bhi ayi thi, uski
490bhabhi bhi mili thi. Tees taareek ko aegi wo yaha. Humare se choti hai wo. Apne vatan me rehti
491hai
492Me : aap sabse bade hai apne ghar me
493Maharaj ji : haan sabse bada mai hu (laughs) or humari behan toh choti hai humare se. kal mili
494thi humko, gaadi leke aai thi
495Dekho humari mumy hai, kal humari mumy ko dekhke aaye
496
497(while we were talking to maharaj ji, kaaki was sitting with that another lady. That lady was
498doing mopping at that time. She must be their maid)
499
500Me : aur aapke pita ji (father)?

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501Maharaj ji : humare pitaji do saal ho gaye, uska dehaant ho gaya. Yaha the humare paas. Aur
502bilkul wo cycle chalaata tha. Cycle chalaake ghumte the wo, bahut acha shareer (body ) tha.
503Lekin maine kya kia ki wo toilet me jab jaate the toh khoon ata tha. Maine bataya toh doctor ne
504bola bada aatda hai ( large intestine) usme kuch diggad hai toh operation karna padega. Toh
505maine bahut kharach kia, do laakh kharach kia mere pita ke peeche, lekin nahi bacha. Mujhe
506esa laga na wo doctor ne humko esa bola ki tum esa karaoge toh tumhare pita ji ache ho
507jaenge. Diggad koi nahi thi, usko (father) koi kathinai bhi nahi thi, khoon ata tha thoda, aur koi
508peeda(problem) nahi thi. Maine socha ki ye acha ho jata hai toh koi baat nahi. Toh usne
509operation kia, lekin bache nahi. Yaha dawa khaana (hospital) me dehaant ho gaya.
510Uski umar nabhe (90) thi or maine socha ki ye acha ho jaega isliye mai le gaya. Ab pachtawa
511hua hai ki nahi le gaya hota toh acha hai. Mere father chalke waha gaye, mai dekhta reh gaya.
512Ye doctor ne paisa lene ke liye humare sath esa kia. Mujhe abhi bhi ranjh ho gaya hai ki esa
513karna hi nahi tha, lekin ho gaya. Ab dekho mai raat me sota hu, jab jab esa vichaar ata hai, tab
514mujhe apne baapu ji ki bahut yaad aati hai, maine galat kia ye, galat kaam kar dia
515
516( somewhere in his heart he feels betrayed and regrets that he shouldnt have taken his father
517to the hospital. That feeling could be seen on his expressions and the change in tone he had
518while he was talking about it)
519
520Me : lekin aap agar operation nahi karwate or baad me kuch ho jata unhe toh bhi toh aapko
521lagta ki operation karwa lena chahiye tha
522Maharaj ji : ye bhi baat theek hai. Ye kya hota hai ye zamaana hai na, maine kai doctor ko
523bataya sirf ek hi ko nahi. Sab kia maine pehle, baad me nirnay (decision) lia. Pehle toh sab
524jagah ghuma mai. Wo bahut old the lekin sakht the (healthy). Uska mai photo batau na.
525(he asked kaaki to get a photo of his father from inside)
526aur baapuji humara esa bolte the ki shareer ko kasrat chahiye. Toh hum toh budha hai or
527kasrat kya kare. Mai bhi ab kasrat karta hu. Ye kasrat ka toh usi se maine grahan lia hai ki karni
528hi hai.
529
530(kaaki then got a cremation advertisement which maharaj ji read out for us.)
531
532besdna ke liye banwaya tha ye or uske peeche humare yaha sant vaani hoti hai. Sant vaani me
533sab santo yaha aate hai or apni katha sunate hai, bhajan kirtan karte hai bhagwan ka naam
534lete hai
535Me : sant vaani kisliye karte hai?
536Maharaj ji : sant vaani hoti hai raat me. Ye humare kya hove jab swarg vaas hota hai na toh
537humare ek choti si vidya aati hai, wo vidhi raat ko hoti hai yaha, bada sa Deepak jalaya jata hai.
538Ye sabhi caste me nahi hoti. Hum toh janoe dhaari hai na (showing a thread that he was
539wearing that all brahmans wear) toh isiliye karna padta hai. Uska uddesh kya hai?,aatma ko
540shanti. Aur kuch nahi. Humare bade bade sant aate hai yaha, aur wo sab karte hai.
541Aditya : aapke pitaji bhi pandit the kisi mandir me?
542Maharaj ji : ye humara vatan hai, sau (100) kilometer durr. Hum kal jaake ae waha, shadi me
543Aditya : aap waha shadi karwake aaye hai kal?
544Maharaj ji : nahi wo toh humare relative the. Ye toh hum dusri caste me hum jaate hai. Hum
545shadi karwate hai
546Aditya : apni caste me aap nahi karwate?
547Maharaj ji : apni caste me toh dusre aate hai. Ye shadi toh humare relative ki thi, relative ki me
548hum nahi baithte
549

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550(kaaki then called me inside the kitchen and showed me three photographs that were hanging
551on the wall. These potographs were held quite high. The left one was of a young guy, centre
552one was maharaj jis fathers and third one was of a kids. first two had garlands on it. She told
553me that the left one is her younger son who met with an accident and died and the right corner
554was her grand son and then she started crying. It was kind of a shoch for me to know that. I
555somehow tried to console her. I asked her about her daughter-in-law, that where was she. She
556told me that she married her to another guy, she was just 20 years old. This thing made me feel
557proud of them as I have seen that people are still orthodox when it comes to widow re558marriage, not only in villages but in cities also. After few minutes we both went outside where
559maharaj ji was working.)
560Maid : mujhe bhi sikha do maharaj ji
561Maharaj ji : seekhlo. Kaam aega
562Maid : kab? Paanch saal ho gaye aapne sikhaya nahi
563Maharaj ji : chaar saal se aaj bole tum
564Maid : paanch saal ho gaye chaar saal nahi
565Aditya : aapne maharaj ji se bahut deri kardi puchne me
566
567(I saw kaaka ji coming from behind. We met him the other day)
568
569Me : kaaka ji Namaste! Kaise ho?
570Kaaka : bahut badiya
571Maharaj ji : tumne chai pi?
572Kaaka : haan pi li
573
574(maharaj ji was explaining further work that he was doing in making of the mukhut. Then
575maharj ji and kaaka ji were talking to eachother in gujarati. It took him sometime to find the
576matching lace to sew)
577
578Aditya : maharaj ji aapke bachpan ke dost aate hai aapse milne yaha?
579Maharaj ji :bachpan ke? Haan hai na. humari jo bahut ache the na wo toh chale gaye bhagwan
580ke ghar (laughs) humare teen dost the, bahut ache ( it seemed that he was trying to recollect
581fun memories with his friends). Do chale gaye, ek hai yaha
582Me : wo kaha rehte hai?
583Maharaj ji : wo apne vatan me. Jo humare mitr the na wo service karte the, petrol pump me.,
584post toh mujhe yaad nahi. Wo tol maap ka inspector bola jata hai humari gujurati me. Ye
585humara mitr hai. Wo retire ho gaye hai ab, yaha aaye the, ek saal ho gaye, yaha aaye the
586humko milne, aaye toh. Aur humare baapu ji jab chale gaye tab aaye the humse milne do saal
587pehle, tab bhi aaye the.
588Maharaj ji : dekho humne kal koshish ki thi milne ki, lekin tha hi nahi, Ahmedabad chala gaya
589tha. Wo bhi acha hai, bahut acha hai ( he had a gentle laugh after that, that somewhere
590showed he was very fond of him and admires him) humare teen dost the, usme do toh chala
591gaya. Humara ek dost than a wo smoker tha, toh use cancer ho gaya. Choti si umr me chala
592gaya
593Aditya : kitni umr thi unki
594Maharaj ji : saadh (60) baras. Humne bahut bataya ki chorh do tum. Pehle toh humne bhi pi
595thi. Dekho kya hota hai humara dost hota hai na toh usme kuch bura area hai toh hum me bhi
596aa jati hai. Toh humare me aa gayi thi lekin humare pitaji ne hume daanta, meri choti umr thi, or
597punishment bhi di thi. Uske darr se maine chorh dia. Aur dekho maine band kar dia toh mera
598mitr naraz ho gaya mere se. bola tum aadmi hi nahi, aadmi hota hai wo esa hota hai (showing
599his muscles) (laughs). Tum toh aurat jaisa hai, esa bolte the

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600Aditya : kyun bolte the?

601Maharaj ji : kyunki mai nahi peeta tha isliye
602Me: toh aapko kabhi bura ni laga is baat se
603Maharaj ji : maine bola na ki mai jaisa lagta hu waisa acha hu lekin mai tumko bolta hu tum
604chorh do, nahi chorha usne aur marr gaye. Dekho uski aurat hai, uski aurat ka paanch che (56056) din pehle phone aya tha uska, uske ek ladke hai or ladke ke ek ladka hai. Uska parivar hai
606lekin uska toh dawai me paisa sab kharch ho gaya, acha nahi hua, cancer tha na isliye. Jitna
607kamaya wo sab dawai me lag gaya, bahut galat hua. Par kya kare ye rog hi esa tha.
608
609( by then maharaj ji finished making the mukhut and was very happy to show the newly made
610mukhut to us. Later he was telling about his routine. Very enthusiastically he even showed
611what all exercises he does daily. Every time from him expression I felt that he was always very
612excited to share things about himself and his work.
613After few minutes we thought of leaving back for college and told maharaj ji that we will come
614tomorrow. He asked us to call him before coming. He told he was going to a village near by
615where he had to deliver the order. He invited us also there. So we decided to go there with
616him.)
617
618Aditya : maharaj ji ek photo toh khichwa lo kaaki ke sath
619Maharaj ji : photo?
620Aditya : haan, kaaki ke sath
621Maharaj ji : ruko mai apni dress pehan ke aata hu
622(we all laughed. After few seconds he came back wearing a beige colored crisp looking kurta
623and a stole that he always takes on his shoulder.)
624Maharaj ji : ye kya hai, ye humara licence hai. Ye pehan ke mai kahi jaata hu na toh mujhe
625rokte nahi hai (laughs)
626Kaaki : haan ye maharaj ka licence hai
627
628(I think whenever he goes somewhere out he dresses up in such manner. White dhoti, kurta,
629stole and leather shoes. After some time then 4 of us left for that village. It took us around 1063015 minutes to reach there. It was a big house. Maharaj ji had made dresses for their mandir.
631There were few women standing and chatting outside the gate and when we arrived one of
632those ladies, she must be the active member of the family, welcomed Maharaj ji and Kaaki and
633three of us followed him. They must be wondering who Aditya and I were, it was visible on their
634faces, as they had never seen us with them. That lady asked Kaaki if we were their relatives.
635We went inside with them. Maharaj ji handed over all these dresses to them which he had
636packed in a polythene. He was roaming around and seeing their mandir, his hand held behind
637and straight back and head held high.
638
639All of the women sat down and offered a chair to maharaj ji. So with them even aditya and I sat
640down but one of those two ladies offered a chair for him to sit on. I noticed that they didnt mind
641if I was sitting down. This kind of difference between a male and a female I didnt see at
642maharaj jis place. I feel maharaj ji doesnt think in this way. It seemed he talked to both of us
643with equal interest.
644
645After few minutes a girl came out from the kitchen holding kettle in one hand and saucers in
646another. They also served the tea in the same way as kaaki did. I think everybody drinks tea
647like this only there or maybe its a special crockery set which they use when some guests
648come. Maharaj ji told that kaakis village is also nearby and he has to go there and invited us
649also. So after few mintues we left from this place.

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650We reached kaakis place in 5 minutes, so it was actually very nearby. He introduced us to
651everyone. We didnt stay there for too long as we had to head back to college also. So we said
652Namaste to everyone and left from there while maharaj ji and kaaki stayed there only.)

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653Transcript 3
65427th January 2015
655
656Aditya and I went to Maharaj jis place after a break of 5 days. We couldnt go during these
657days because of some work issues and even Maharaj ji was out of town. The earlier day we
658had planned to visit them but when we called up Maharaj ji to ask what time should we come
659he told us that he had to go to somewhere which was 200 km away from his place. Aditya had
660plans of staying there only with them.
661
662While on our way to Maharaj jis place we had discussed that well try to know something about
663his childhood. Where did he spend his childhood days and every possible things about it.
664
665When we entered their house we couldnt find anyone there. Somebody was lying on a folding
666in the verandah but we couldnt see who that person was as he/she was covered with a shawl
667from head to toe. Maharaj jis working place was nicely maintained with not even a single piece
668of cloth around it and also his sewing machine was covered with a white cloth. After a minute or
669so, that person got up, that was Kaaki. I felt as if we came at a very wrong time. Maybe that
670was their resting time. But I remember Maharaj ji told us that he gets back to work at 2, but this
671day I didnt see that happening. When kaaki got up we sat with her. We asked her about
672Maharaj ji and from her we got to know that he was taking rest. Then we chatted with her for
673some time. She was telling us that Maharaj jis Maasa (uncle) who was 100 years old had
674expired so they went there the previous day.
675
676Kaaki went outside, I could hear some vegetable vendors voice. As soon as I saw her going
677from my left side, from my right side I saw a girl coming out from the kitchen. She was wearing
678a salwar kameez. I had not seen her earlier. I thought maybe she was her daughter-in-law.
679Kaaki told me last time that she might come to visit them in some days, but since her attire was
680completely different from Kaaki and also from other hindu gujarati ladies in the village, so I
681couldnt relate her to this family. I was quite suspicious to know about that girl. After some time
682Maharaj ji came out from a room near the mandir entrance. The stole that he keeps on his
683shoulder, this day he was wearing it like a scarf over his head. Since these days it was quite
684cold so maybe thats why he was wearing it like this. We said Namaste to him.
685
686Aditya : kaise ho Maharaj ji?
687
688( he probably didnt hear him as he didnt reply anything. He has hearing problem and was also
689quite far from where we were sitting, so it adds to him not able to hear what Aditya had said.
690After some time he came and sat where we were sitting.)
691
692Maharaj ji : do din se toh bahut thandi hai.
693Me : haan kaafi thand ho gayi
694Maharaj ji : kal tumhara, parso aya tha tumhara phone?
695Aditya : parso raat ko kia tha.
696Maharaj ji : ye kya hai ki hum gaye the ratanpur. Do sau (200) km durr hai
697Me : rajasthan border pe hai na?
698Maharaj ji : haan border pe. Waha humara maasa rehte hai
699Aditya : haan kaaki ne bataya ki unka dehaant ho gaya
700Maharaj ji : wo bhagwan ke ghar chala gaya, isliye mai gaya tha, hum sab gaye the waha,
701baithne ke liye. Jab aya na tab toh aarti ka time ho gaya tha, sham ho gayi thi, bahut durr hai
702
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703( I saw kaaki coming from outside, holding something in her pallu. Those were lemons and Ber
704which she offered to us. All four of us were sitting there and were having it. To me it seemed
705like one happy family only who were sitting together in the verandah, chit chatting and enjoying
706together. Later even that girl came and sat next to kaaki. I still didnt have any idea about who
707she was.)
708
709Kaaki : ye ladki bahut ber khaati hai
710Maharaj ji : ye baroda wali ladki hai, baroda me rehti hai. (pause)
711
712(They all started talking in Gujarati then. I think like Kaaki even this girl didnt know Hindi as
713she wasnt responding to what we were talking and was just smile. She had the same kind of
714blank smile which even I carry when I dont understand what exactly is happening.)
715
716Maharaj ji : ye ladki hai humari, padosi ki hai lekin humne rakhi hai ladki. Humare ladki hai hi
717nahi, wo toh chali gayi, 23/12 ko shadi ho gayi wo chali gayi, Muslim hai fir bhi maine ladki
718rakhi hai (laughs)
719
720( the moment he said this, I felt that yes this is something interesting now. He specially
721mentioned that she was a Muslim and still he allows her to come to his place.)
722
723Aditya : ek aur bhi toh aunty thi jo us din thi, wo ni ayi aaj jo us din saaf safai kar rahi thi
724Maharaj ji : haan, iski mumy hai wo. Wo sab yaha kaam karti thi. Jab mai yaha aya tabse yaha
725kaam karti hai humare paas, yaha rehti hai mere paas.
726Me : aaj nahi ayi wo aunty
727Maharaj ji : wo toh so gayi khana khaake.
728Me : wo kaha rehti hai
729Girl : peeche.
730Maharaj ji : wo toh yaha peeche hi rehti hai. Peeche darwaza hai na. Wo baarah baje aati hai,
731JB me kaam hai uska, wo kaam karke yaha aati hai baarah baje, baarah bajne k baad wo yaha
732rasaoi paani banati hai. Ab usne khaya, iski mumy ne, khaya or so gayi. Mera kaaryakaram esa
733hai, gyarah tees baje mai kha leta hu or so jata hu. Do baje khade ho jata hu or peeche jata hu
734( they all laughed at it) wo log sone ka time hai uska jab mai jata hu. Dekho kal nahi tha mai,
735uska phone aya humko, acha nahi lagta tum aa jao. Dekho mai toh pareshan kar rha hu tumko,
736tum kyu call kar rahe ho (laughs) mai toh pareshan kar rha tha. Do baje mai peeche ko jata hu
737unke sone ke samay me (laughs) pareshani ati hai usko kya kare, wo bol toh nahi sakte tum
738chale jao, fir mai baithta hu. Uske daddy hai na wo nahi sote, wo toh baithe hai
739Aditya : thak jaate honge na subah se kaam karte hue isliye so jaati hongi
740Maharaj ji : uske papa ki kya koi naukriyan hai hi nahi, rikshaw chalata hai. Wo rikshaw chalata
741hai, uske ladke hai tumhare jaisa, wo bhi rikshaw ka kaam seekhte hai, padhte hai. Aur uski
742mumy 5-6 bungle ka kaam rakha hai, waha karti hai bartan paani, saaf safai. Isme usi ka chalta
743hai
744
745( I wanted to know if she does kitchen work at his place also, which I had not expected as
746kitchen work is assumed to be very pure and he is a Brahmin and also because he
747emphasized on the word Muslim.)
748
749Me : wo aunty banati hai khana yaha
750Kaaki : naa
751Maharaj ji : (referring to Kaaki) khana toh ye khana banati hai, kapde karti hai, sab ye karti hai
752Me : acha, wo aunty bas saaf safai karti hai

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753Maharaj ji : haan wo toh saaf safai karti hai. Wo toh saaf karti hai kachra, aur kuch nahi. Ye
754(kaaki) hai nahi toh sab karegi par khana nai. Wo muslim hai na, mai paani bhi nahi peeta uske
755ghar fir bhi humara sambandh esa hai dekho(kaaki laughs). Uski shadi thi uske pappa ne kaha
756mereko bahut dukh hai ki tum humare ghar ka paani bhi nahi peete
757Me : par kyu nahi peete, koi wajah
758Maharaj ji : wajah toh ( after a pause) ye muslim hai. Isiliye. Ye sanstha hai, hum esi jagah
759pe baithe hue hai isliye humko esa karna samaaj ke viruddh hai. Dekho samaaj wale hai na wo
760humare liye charcha karte hai. Aisa karta hai waisa karta hai. Aisa charcha ki uski koi gujaaish
761hi nahi
762Me : par aap inke ghar aate jaate hai is baat ki bhi charcha karte honge
763Maharaj ji : nahi nahi esa koi nahi. Dekho hum inke ghar kuch khaate peete bhi nahi fir bhi
764humara sambandh acha hai (laughs)
765Me : ye aapke ghar khaate peete hai?
766Maharaj ji : ye toh sab khaati hai. Isko bhuk lagi hai toh bolegi (laughs) humare paas khati hai,
767hum baith jaate hai na khaane ke liye toh baith jaati hai humare saath, kha leti hai. Humne
768maana hai humari ladki hai, fir bhi ye samaaj ke darr se esa karna padta hai. Kyun? Kyunki
769humara sthaan esa hai. Dekho mai maharaj toh hu lekin yaha guru gaadhi hai. Samajh paaye?
770Me : kya hota hai gaadhi?
771Maharaj ji : humari baithak uchi hai. Yaha sabka koi chota mota function ho, kahi sabhaye hoti
772hai, humara swagat kia jata hai, hume baithaya jata hai uche aasan pe, hume phool maala daal
773deta hai, humara pujan hota hai, esi baat hai. Humare aasan pe koi nahi baithega
774
775( this was quite strange to me that out of fear of what the society would say about him, he
776doesnt even drink water at their house but continues to have relation with the family. He also
777goes to their place from the backyard, there is a door there. Now I dont know if people know
778about this or not. He considers himself at supreme level, he used the word ucha aasan and
779that nobody sits on his place. )
780
781Me : acha aapka ucha aasan hota hai
782Maharaj ji : haan ucha, alag hota hai
783Aditya : haan harr jagah maharaj ko upar hi baithate hai
784Maharaj ji : humare aasan pe koi nahi baithega, esi guru gaadhi hai wo isiliye sab rakhna
785padta hai. Samjhe? Wo bhi chalta hai, ye bhi chalta hai, sab chalta hai. Koi humare jeevan ka
786siddhant hota hai na, wo siddhant ke hum viruddh nahi jaate. Siddhant siddhant hi rahgea.
787Siddhant me koi kami nahi aegi, kami aegi toh wo siddhant nahi rahega.
788Me : koi badlaav bhi nahi hota
789Maharaj ji : haan kuch nahi hota isme, esa hi humara jeevan hai. Jo siddhant hai humara hum
790uske galat nahi kar sakte. Koi baat chupaane se hum apraadh kar rahe hai. Dekho jeevan
791khulla hai, apna jeevan khulla rakhna chahiye. Jab parda rakhoge na, jeevan ke aage parda
792rakhoge na toh duniya dokiya karegi ( he showed this by imitating with his hand that how
793people try to see through a curtain). Kaise jeete hai, kaise khaate hai, kaise sote hai ye sab
794khula, isme koi parda nahi. Parda isi baat ka hota hai humare dhyan ka, humare yog ka,
795humare ishvar smaran ka, iska parda hota hai, isko parde me rakhna chahiye
796Me : par esa kyu
797Maharaj ji : dekho mai bhakti karta hu, toh ye bhakti mai kyu tumko batau or batane se faida
798kya, kya faida
799Me : taaki hum bhi seekh jaaye
800
801( I couldnt understand that at one point hes saying that we should not hide anything and on the
802other hand hes saying that we should not reveal how we meditate, how we pray. He was so

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803depressed with the fact that whenever he went to tailors to learn and they never taught him and
804tried to hide their work. I feel even he was doing the same then. He was talking if he would
805teach it then how would dat benefit him. So I wanted to know more about it that why he feels so
806and that why these things shouldnt be shown.)
807
808Maharaj ji : nahi ye bhakti hum karte hai, koi bhi yog kia, bhagwan ka smaran kia, uska saath
809lakshay le lia toh wo sab parde me rehna chahiye. Wo dikhawa nahi hai. Dikhaawe se apna tap
810bhang ho jata hai. Dekho aj bhi mai tumko salah deta hu ki thoda karo, acha karo or bahut
811sacha karo. Karo toh bahut thoda karo, kum karo, time nahi hai toh kum karo lekin acha karo.
812Acha karo toh sachcha karo.
813Me : dikhaawe ke liye mat karo
814Maharaj ji : dikhawa nahi. Dikhawa toh dekho aadhambar hota hai. Dikhaawe se badi badi
815maala pehan li, bada tilak laga lia, takla kar dia, isse koi faida nahi hai, wo toh dikhawa hai. Ye
816dikhawa hota hai na matlab andar se kuch nahi hota, mere hisaab se esa hota hai
817
818(I felt what he was talking earlier and what he was talking later, somehow didnt relate to
819eachother for me.)
820
821Aditya : aapne bahut sahi kaha hai ye
822Maharaj ji : mere hisaab se toh wo badi badi daadhi wala hai, bahut bade bade yaha (pointing
823towards forehead) design kia hai, haina dekho itna itna tilak lagaate hai or AC gaadiyo me
824ghumte hai, kya hai ye sab. Hum to sansaar hai ye lekin sanyaas ki jab baat aati hai na toh
825sanyaas ka toh dharm hi esa hai. Sanyaas wale hai na wo toh apne liye kuch bhi apne paas
826nahi rakhta. Wahi sanyaasi hai. Apne paas kuch nahi rakhna uska matlab hi sanyaas hai.
827Dekho jain me digambhar hote hai.
828Aditya : hmm shwetambar or digaambar
829Maharaj ji : haan toh kya hota hai ki uske kapdo ki bhi zarurat nahi hai. Wo soch hi nahi sakte.
830Wo gents or ladies me soch hi nahi sakte. Sochna bhi galat. Wo toh kya hai aatma ko. Dekho
831ye toh humari aankho se hum pehchante hai ki ye ladki hai, ye ladka hai lekin usme toh ladka
832ladki ka koi bhed hi nahi hai. Jaise tum chote the, do saal ke tab tumko maaloom bhi nahi
833padta ye ladka hai ye ladki hai. Esa uska mind hota hai, do saal ke bache jaisa, bhed hi nahi.
834Pehle ke toh samay me kya tha, humare samay me dekho na toh humara aath nau baras hua
835na, hum kapda bhi nahi pehante the
836Aditya : bachpan me?
837Maharaj ji : haan. Kapda pehante the lekin kapda hai na, esi samay ki baat jaisi baat nahi thi.
838Humare kya hota hai ye chote chote gaon, humara vatan toh kya hai gaon bahut chota hai
839Aditya : kaha hai aapka gaon
840Maharaj ji : wo toh bahut durr hai
841Me : Gujarat me hi hai?
842Maharaj ji : haan Gujarat me
843Me : kis taraf padta hai
844Maharaj ji : jaha hum kal gaye the na waha padta hai
845Aditya : ratanpur ke paas?
846Maharaj ji : haan or yaha chota sa gaon hai, gaon ke paas ek taalaab hai. Taalaab samajhte
847ho? ( looking at us)
848Aditya : haan
849Maharaj ji :jab baarish aati hai na, baarish ke din tab wo taalaab paani se pura bhar jata hai or
850ye taalaab ke paani dusri baarish ke din aate hai na tab tak chalta hai
851Aditya : (surprised) itna paani hai udhar

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852Maharaj ji : haan. Usme kya karte the, ye toh ab badi machinery aa gayi, pehle toh waha sab
853khedu the, bail (cows) rakhte the hull chalane ke liye, kheton (farms) me kaam karne ke liye.
854Toh ek ek ghar do do bail tha or bhense thi doodh khaane ke liye. Jab doodh, maakhan, dahi
855esa khaate toh kaam karte, Shakti aati toh esa karte the
856
857( this immediately reminded me of what my father always tells me. I felt that even the state that
858I live in (i.e Haryana) and Gujarat have so distinct culture but there are some things about both
859the cities and the people staying there that are common, or maybe there are some common
860beliefs everywhere . )
861
862toh kehne ka matlab ki ek ek ghar paanch paanch che che ye pashu dhan hote hai, HOTA
863THA. Or in sabko paani pilaane ke liye taalab me le jaate, subah or sham. Aur ye sab
864naariyaan hai na ye apne kapde ko lekar waha uski safai karti. Aur sabhi gaon ke log hai isme
865snaan karte. Hum bhi karte the. Humne shaadi ki na toh ye(kaaki) bhi ayi thi. Ye bhi humara
866kapda leke waha dhulai karti thi dekho. Toh mai kya baat bata raha tha? Mai tab chati kaksha
867(6th grade) me tha, saatvi kaksha me. Ab hum snaan karte the na, kaise karte the? Digambar
868swarup me karte the. Dekho ladka ladki sab
869Me : ek jagah?
870Maharaj ji : haan ladka ladki sab milkar snaan karte the. Aur kuch nahi
871Me : toh koi kuch kehta nahi tha
872Maharaj ji : nahi koi hai hi nahi, esa koi kuch soch bhi nahi sakta, ye zamaana hi aisa tha. Ab
873toh ye zamaana itna badal gaya (laughs) itna aage bhad gaya hai ab toh do baras ke ladke ko
874bhi chaddi pehnai jaati hai. Aur ye samay me sab apna parivar sab waha jaata tha taalaab me.
875Aur yaha paani ka upyog karte the aur paas me kuan tha, kua ke paani se kheech kar, sirr par
876rakhkar laati thi, wo bhi isne kia hai.
877Me : aap bhi karte the?
878Maharaj ji : haan.
879Me : aap dono milke karte the
880Maharaj ji : nahi mai paani sirr pe nahi rakh sakta, mai esa nahi karta tha wo kar sakti thi.
881Lekin jab garmi ke din aate hai na toh paani kum ho jata hai, kum hone ki wajah se paani nahi
882milta toh mai kya karte the, hum kuan me andar utarte the. Dekho itna (showing from his
883hands) khadda hota hai neeche me, itne khadde me itna paani bhara, isme se thoda thoda
884paani ata hai. Kyun? Kyunki ye sab gaon wale le jaate isliye paani bachta hi nahi toh hum raat
885ko jaate. Mai kuan me utarta
886Aditya: toh aapko darr ni lagta tha raat ko kuan me
887Maharaj ji : nahi mai rassi se kuan me utar jata
888Me : aap dono saath jaate the?
889Maharaj ji : haan ye thi, humara padosi aata. Wo do teen milke hum jaate the saath me
890Me : kya naam hai aapke gaon ka
891Kaaki : narsipura
892Maharaj ji : narsipura uska naam aur waha paani ese katori se leke isme baalti me daalte.
893Dekho itna paani maila, clean nahi, maila paani bahut aur ghar pe aake usko hum ek din pade
894rehne dete tab uska sab maati neeche aa jata hai, fir bhi upar upar se paani leta hai. Wo paani
895hum ek kapde me daal kar uski matki bharta hai wo paani peete the. Kathinaaiyan thi, pehle
896toh bahut kathinaiyan thi, fir bhi anand tha. Dekho aur aaj kya hai aaj toh esa zamaana hai
897tumhare paas sab hai, tumhari safety se, tumhare sab khaane peene, tumhare mauz shauk
898karne, sabka saadhan hai fir bhi wahi anand aaj nahi hai. Aisa anand tha (laughs) dekho fir bhi
899kathinaiyo me bahut anand tha. Aaj nahi hai. Wo din hum yaad kare, wo din or aaj ka din me
900kai farak hai. Aisi baat suni hai tumne? Nahi suni, kaise sunoge, tumhari toh choti choti umar
901hai

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902Aditya : mere papa ne sunai hai

903Me : mere papa bhi gaon me rehte the na toh wo batate the kabhi kabhi. Papa ya dada
904Maharaj ji : rehte the?
905Aditya : haan
906Maharaj ji : haan toh uske paas suno, wo bataega esi baat. Pehle toh bahut kathinaiyaan thi,
907kathinaiyan toh thi bahut, bahut anand tha. Jeene ka bahut anand tha. Aur ye parivar me jo bhi
908karta tha isme kathinaiyan bahut thi. Humare paas toh dekho wo bimar ho gayi thi (refering to
909kaaki) humare paas paise nahi the, doctor ke paas kaise le jae? Dekho fir bhi humne kya kia,
910thoda paisa humare paas che rupiye the aur leke humare yaha biram gaon hai na, waha doctor
911tha, gaon me toh koi doctor ata jata hi nahi. Kyun? Gaon me koi bimaariyan jaldi aati hi nahi.
912Doctor gaon me aega? Kab aega bimaariyan hoti toh lekin bimariyan hi nahi, sabka body acha
913toh doctor ke aane ki koi gunjaish hi nahi. Isliye dawa khana tha na, bahut durr the. Kai shehro
914me the, city me, gaon me toh koi dawa khana tha hi nahi.
915Aditya : kya hua tha kaaki ko
916Maharaj ji : hum dekho bhains rakhte the or uska chaara paani lene khet me jaate the. Ek din
917wo chaara apne sirr pe rakhke wo chali aati thi or do bhainsa ne kya kia, hindu or pakistan kar
918dia (everybody laughs) iske beech me aa gayi. Do bhainsa ladne lagi or wo beech me aa gayi
919or sau kilo wajan. Dekho kitna tha. Hum dono ke paas sau kilo thi. Par mai toh sirr pe rakh nahi
920sakta tha
921Me : kyun?
922
923( I thought Maharaj ji had some problem so because of that he couldnt keep it over his head.
924But when I asked him earlier also he didnt say anything specific that why he couldnt keep it
925and this time also. In my village I had never seen men putting it on their head and its always
926men who does that so somewhere I felt that maybe even he felt the same. But since he was
927telling about that men and women used to take bath together and also during our last visit he
928told us about his smoking incident also so this made me think that what I was thinking might be
929wrong also.)
930
931Maharaj ji : pehle se maine sirr par rakha nahi isliye. Mai toh bicycle rakhta tha, bicycle ke
932peeche rassi lekar usko barabar tight baandh dia tha
933Me : apko sirr pe rakhna nahi ata tha
934(kaaki smiled)
935Maharaj ji : (very firmly said) nahi mujhe nahi ata tha. Humare sath ladke bahut the, sab sirr pe
936rakhte hai naari ke jaise, aurat ke jaise, hum nahi rakh sakte, pehle se hi nahi rakha
937kabhi(laughs)
938
939(this statement of his kind of gave me a hint that what I was thinking was right upto some
940extend. He related that work as ladiess work.)
941
942Aditya : aap seekha bhi nahi fir
943Maharaj ji : usne rakha
944Me : aapne kabhi seekha nahi fir
945Maharaj ji :kya?
946Me : ki kaise rakhte hai
947Maharaj ji : nahi. Wo kya hota hai, mai tumko sach batau mujhko sharam lagti thi
948
949(kaaki laughed)
950
951Me : ese kyun?

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952Maharaj ji : hum ladke hai, hum sirr par kyun rakhe, esi baat thi. Hum kyun sirr par rakhe, hum
953aurat nahi hai. Aisa galat soch isme tha (laughs)
954Aditya : acha ye aapko pata chal gaya ki aap galat sochte the
955Maharaj ji : (laughs) aisa galat soch tha isiliye maine usko rakha nahi. Mai cycle rakhta tha,
956cycle ke stand pe ek bahut bada ye chaara rassi se tight kar liya or mai aage aage chale jata
957tha wo peeche aa rahi thi leke. Toh isme humara dono ka wajan toh samaantar hi tha, pachaas
958kilo iske paas, pachaas kilo humare paas. Aur mai chalke aa raha tha aur ye bhainsa aayi usne
959ek bada khadda tha, aur usme girr gayi ye sab, aur yaha karod razu me manka aata hai (he
960was talking about spinal cord) dusra manka.
961Aditya : manka kya hota hai?haddi?
962Maharaj ji : haan ye haddi aati hai na ye haddi tut gayi. Dekho uski tut gayi hai isliye wo thoda
963sujan rehta hai
964Aditya : abhi bhi rehta hai aunty
965Maharaj ji :haan abhi bhi rehta hai. Bahut dawa khilai
966
967(Maharaj ji was then telling the whole story of how much he had to struggle to get kaaki
968operated and buy medicines for her. He had only rs6 in his pocket at that time out of which he
969had to pay rs5 for the doctor fee and left with just 1 rupee in hand. And with this money he had
970to buy medicines also which costed rs90. Later he borrowed money from people of his village
971and got rs150 like this. He was telling that during his young age he was very fond of singing
972and was praising his singing abilities also. During navratris he used to using garba songs.
973From his first katha that he did in thol village, he earned good amount of money and was
974appreciated a lot too. He inherited this quality from his father and learnt by seeing and hearing
975him. This made him feel that how destiny takes a turn.
976He was telling that earlier even he used to wear kurta pyjama like Kaaka ji does. And since last
97730 years he has been wearing dhoti because of his occupation and he cannot enter into a
978mandir without this.)
979
980Maharaj ji : mandir me esa enter nahi ho sakta. Ye pavitrata ka pratik hai isiliye pehna jata hai
981aur wo maanya hai. Bhagwan ke paas jana hai toh dhang se jana hai, apna dhang se. dekho
982extraordinary insaan ko waha manai hai, andar kisi ko aane nahi deta
983Me : par bhagwan ke liye toh sab ek samaan nahi hote?
984Maharaj ji : samaan toh hai sab lekin kya hota hai ki uske niyam ka paalan karte hai, wo uski
985puja ke layak hai, ye puja karne ke layak ka uska certificate hai. Tum nahi ja sakte waha. Kyun
986nahi ja sakte?
987Me : (pointing towards aditya) agar ye dhoti pehne toh ja sakta hai?
988Maharaj ji : (immediately replied) haan toh ja sakte hai
989Me : aur mai dhoti pehnu toh?
990Maharaj ji : haan toh ja sakti ho (kaaki then laughed). Maine bataya na uske paas dhang se
991jana hota hai. Uska niyam hai. Dekho ye mandir nahi, koi bhi mandir ho chahe. Dekho ab
992tumko dekhne ke liye agar koi aate hai tumhare sasur wale, koi bhi, sasur wale bhi nahi, koi bhi
993aaye toh ye ladki ko dekhega. Tumko maaloom hai ki tumko dekhne aye hai toh tum kya karti,
994mujhko batao
995Me : dhang se banke jaenge. Ache se banke jaenge unke saamne
996Maharaj ji : haan (the way he said it, it was kind of like proving his point right). Kyun? kyunki
997dekhne aate hai. Uski uchai tumhare se zada hai. Aane wala hai na uski uchai tumhare se
998zada hai. Tumko dekhne ate hai. Aur mai ye uchai ki baat kar raha hu na, uski (means God)
999uchai itni hai ki humko maaloom hi nahi (laughs). Toh ek insaan ke liye hum dhang se ban jaate
1000hai toh ishvar ke liye kyun nahi. Aur wo toh sabka baap hai ( we all laughed at it) toh humare
1001parivar wale or humare chote chote bache, bazar me jaake bheek maange toh kya humko acha

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1002lagega? Nahi lagega. Toh esi baat hai, kai log ate hai na toh uske paas bikhari jaisi hi haalat
1003me aate hai. Humko kuch do (at a little higher pitch) humko kuch do, itna do toh mai tumko itna
1004du. Ye kya baat hai, kya jugaad khila hai. Aur dusri baat ye apna baap hai toh baap kya dekh
1005rahe hai, mere ladke bikhari. Esa smart banke uske paas khameer banke jana padega. Dekho
1006apni chaati nikaalke jana padega, usko acha lagega. Mere ladke ladki hai lekin smart hai,
1007bikhari nahi hai, kangaal nahi hai. Wo hi acha lagega. Aur maangne ki kya zarurat, usko sab
1008maloom hai. Uske paas kya maangoge, tumhari soch kitni hai, paisa maangoge, ladka
1009maangoge, shadi ke liye achi ladki maangoge, acha bungla maangoge, aur kya maangoge.
1010Aditya : maarg darshan?
1011Maharaj ji : ye sab galat hai. Apna aatma ke liye jo bhi maanga jata hai wo hi acha hai. Sona
1012sona nahi hai, paisa paisa nahi hai, bungla bungla hi nahi hai, kuch hai hi nahi dekho. Wo sab
1013hai apne jeevan dhang se jeene ke liye. Wo sab zarurat toh hai lekin apna jeevan jeene ke liye,
1014dhang se jiye bas itni zarurat hai or kuch nahi
1015Me : haan ye sab toh yahi reh jaega
1016Maharaj ji : aur ye sab jo apeksha hoti hai na, wo sab galat hai. Jitni apeksha karoge utni
1017apekshaye bhad jaati hai. Par aatma ke liye hum kuch nahi karte aur humara jeevan pura ho
1018jata hai.
1019Aditya : haan maharaj ji ye toh aap sahi bol rahe hai. Toh aatma ke liye kya karna chahiye
1020maharaj ji
1021Maharaj ji : ye sab toh hai bhagwan ki dean hai, sab kuch diya hai dhang se jiyo, anand karna
1022wo hi humara kartavya hai lekin ek hi anand jeevan me, akela anand wo galat hai
1023Aditya : karm bhi karna chahiye
1024
1025(this whole discussion was very philosophical. It made me think that how and why are running
1026behind things and forgetting to and live moments.)
1027
1028Maharaj ji : anand ke peeche padne se gaer faida hota hai. Anand hota hai dekho kathinaiyaan
1029aati hai na toh ye kathinaiyaan jab durr ho jaati hai toh anand bhad jata hai. Toh kathinaiyaan
1030hoti hai to hi anand hota hai.
1031
1032(later he was talking about that by the grace of god his life came on track after so much of
1033struggle and how grateful he is to god.)
1034
1035(after some time even that aunty came and sat next to Kaaki. Later she started her cleaning
1036work and kaaki got busy in some other work. So maharaj ji, aditya, kaaka who came long time
1037back and I went and sat towards the main entrance. Later kaaki also started doing brooming
1038while that aunty was washing utensils.
1039Kaaka seems to have really good relation with the family. The way he used to be with them it
1040didnt look like that he was some outsider and looked like a part of the family only. He would
1041directly go inside the kitchen and get tea for himself, he already knew that Kaaki would have
1042made it for him. )
1043
1044Maharaj ji : aaj kal apne dil se koi kaam nahi karta hai. Ye darwaza banaya hai, ye sab design
1045rakhi hai, aisa jo sochte hai hai, aisa sochkar jo banate hai na nahi banta, lekin usne uska dil
1046lagaya hai isme. Jo kaam me dil lagaya jata hai na apna wahi kaam ki chamak hoti hai. Kahi
1047bhi tum bahut aage sochlo toh apna dil se hum kaam karenge na toh uski chamak aegi
1048Aditya : sahi bol rahe ho aap
1049Maharaj ji : aur apne dil se kaam nahi karoge aur karne ke khatir karoge uski koi kimat nahi
1050hoti
1051Kaaka : usko bolte hai zabardasti kaam karna

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1052Maharaj ji : kimat toh jab hoti hai jab apne dil se kaam karo. Koi bhi, padhai karo, jo chahe
1053apne dil se kaam karlo toh uski chamak aa jati hai or wahi achi baat hoti hai
1054Aditya : apka bhi toh jaise apne bhagwan ke kapde banana shuru kia apne dil se banana
1055shuru kia
1056Maharaj ji : haan (tone had a confirmation in it)
1057Aditya : toh wo chamak dikhti hai
1058Maharaj ji : paisa zarur leta hu lekin, ye toh baat sahi hai, wo toh humara jeevan virva karne ke
1059liye, lekin wahi lakshay humara nahi. Maine bataya tha na ki ek bar maine koi banaya toh dusra
1060jab banata hu na toh aisa sochta hu ki pehle wale se acha kaise banta hai aur kya khaamiyan
1061hai. Pehle me khaami hai toh dusre me khaami kum ho jaati hai, teesre me kum ho jaati hai, fir
1062kum ho jaati hai kum ho jaati hai kum ho jati hai
1063Aditya : harr bar aap usko sochte hai
1064Maharaj ji : haan har bar sochte hai
1065Aditya : ki aur kaise sundar bana sakte hai
1066Maharaj ji : pehle aisa banaya aisa banaya. Pehle toh mai banata tha na toh wo toh mai faag
1067banata tha. Faag ye sab rajput log pehante hai na aisa banata tha
1068Kaaki : haan wo ese banate the andar rui daal ke
1069Maharaj ji : toh wo bhi banti hai, abhi bhi banti hai, kai kai mandir wale banate hai or mai bana
1070bhi deta hu.
1071Kaaka : paagdi bolte hai use
1072Aditya : pagdi haan
1073Maharaj ji : haan pagdi bolte hai usko ( he was talking quite slowly, as if he was thinking about
1074something)
1075Me : maharaj ji apko aisi kya soch ai ki aapne bhagwan ke liye kapde banane shuru kar diye
1076Maharaj ji : (after a while, still talking slowly) ye kya tha jab mai chota tha toh humare pitashri,
1077humare ghar pe bhi mandir hai toh waha humare bhagwan ke pakde badalne ka waqt ata tha
1078toh pita ji mujhe bolte tum aisa karo, mujhe sikhate the. Usko pehnao aur fir choti si umar me hi
1079pehnata tha ghar me. Aur pehnate waqt tab hum sochte the ki mere pita ji aisa banate hai toh
1080mai kuch banau
1081Aditya : aapke pita ji bhi banate the aise bhagwan ke kapde
1082Maharaj ji : haan banate the (smiling) par banate the, ye dhanda nahi karte the. Mai toh
1083dhanda karta hu, mai toh 40-45 mandiro ka banata hu aur dhanda karta hu. Dekho wo toh
1084maine mandir ke liye sirf banate the, aur dhanda karte the lekin sirf insan ke kapde banate the.
1085Ghar me machine rakhte the.
1086
1087( he was talking to Kaaka in gujarati. I think he was talking about the sewing machine that he
1088told us about earlier. The sewing machine that his father used to use, which is hard to find now.
1089And was explaining how that had to be operated)
1090
1091(He was then telling about that how machines have changed now. Everything can be done
1092from one machine and told us that even he has seen a machine like this but its a Japanese
1093machine. When I asked him where he saw that machine so he told me that he went to a
1094bunglow to perform satnarayan bhagwan katha. So he saw that machine at his bunglow. He
1095said when he saw the machine properly , it was written on it Made in Japan. That guy offered
1096him the machine, but he refused to take it because he doesnt d the kind of work that that
1097machine does and he didnt even know how to use it. He said that the kind of work he wanted
1098to do, that system wasnt there in the machine. He was telling that he has been using the same
1099machine since last 20 years and didnt even had to change its spare parts. But now he needs
1100to take this machine to get it reapired. It works fine but makes some noise. He said he worked

24

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1101a lot on this machine and has been doing this business since the age of 21. He used to make
1102lehengas, pants, shirts, towels everything.)
1103
1104Maharaj ji : humare pita ji dekho kisi ke ghar gaye kaam karne ke liye, mai toh padhta tha aur
1105jab chutti hoti thi toh humare pitaji humko bulate the. Aur neeche baithke cutting karte aur mai
1106silai karta. Isme se mujhe humare mind me ek khwahish thi ki kuch kare. Padhai ke liye paisa
1107nahi tha. Aur ye gujarati teacher ki naukri toh mil jaati thi but saadh (60) rupiya pagaar thi aur
1108saadh rupiya toh hum machine me hi le lete the ghar pe rehke. Aur saadh rupiya me toh kya
1109karna padta tha ki koi bhi gaon me, pathshala me humko naukri mili toh waha jana padta tha.
1110Aur gaon ke talaati hote hai na,mantri
1111Aditya : jo sab khaata likhte hai
1112Maharaj ji : wo usko kya bolte hai? Patwaari. Wo esi mujhe mili thi naukri lekin humare yaha
1113aadiwaasi hai,godara, waha sab aadiwaasi log rehte the or padhai me kuch samajhte hi nahi.
1114Aur usne kya kia th aadiwaasi log ne sab zameen pe border lagake apni kar li thi. Aur yaha
1115survey hota hai zameeno ke baare me. Tumhari baat waha koi samajhte hi nahi aur tum
1116zabardasti karo toh teer kaanta chalate the. Ye darr se humare pita ne naukri me lagne hi nahi
1117dia.
1118Aur hum toh kabhi bahar gaye hi nahi, experience nahi tha bahar jaane ka toh duniya dekhi hi
1119nahi thi
1120Me : ghar me hi rahe
1121Maharaj ji : haan ghar me hi ghar me, gaon gaon me, ye gaon ko hum duniya maan rahe the.
1122Mai maan raha tha ki ye world hai. Dekho mendak rehte hai na khadde me, mendak kya janta
1123hai ki ye dariya hai sagar hai samudr hai, esa maante hai, kyun? Usne sagar dekha hi nahi
1124isliye. Jab sagar dekhenge tab usko maaloom hota hai ki wo toh chote khadde hai. Humara
1125esa hua. Humne jab dekha na tab toh bahut der ho gayi. Humne jab duniya dekhi toh bahut der
1126ho gayi, naukri karne ka samay pura ho gaya humara (laughs)
1127Me : toh ye saara kaam aapne apne baapuji ko dekh dekhke seekha
1128Maharaj ji : haan. Jo kaam mere baapuji karte the wahi kaam maine apna lia.
1129Me : wo bhi isi tarah ke design banate the
1130Maharaj ji : nahi design nahi. Pehle toh design hote hi nahi the.
1131Kaaka : pehle toh koi design the hi nahi, sab saada(simple) tha
1132Me : fir aapne kaise design banana shuru kia ye
1133Maharaj ji : haaannn wahi baat hai. Dekho ek dafa diwali ke din maine pehle toh kya sab gharo
1134me badi badi tasveer lagate the bhagwan ki, kaanch k sheeshe me, aur yaha humari shobha
1135kya thi, makaan mandiro ki shobha tasveere thi par ab nahi hai. Lekin pehle thi. Toh tasveero
1136me kai kai painting tha na isme kapda pehnaya hua tha. Maine socha ki ye sab bhagwan ke
1137kapde bante hai, ye design kapde me lagai jaye toh kaisa lagega. Ese question mere magaj
1138me aya, mind me. Aur maine kya kia maine pehle toh, dekho, raakhi ka din aata hai na, raakhi
1139pehle toh bahut design wala ata tha
1140Me : haan badi badi aati thi pehle toh
1141Maharaj ji : haan aur usme plastic tha, kaagaz tha, abhi toh moti ka hi istamal hota hai. Isme
1142do rakhi humare paas ayi, wo do raakhi ko maine bhagwan ke kapde me chaati pe laga diya or
1143bhagwan ko pehnaya
1144Me: fir aapne dekha ki kaisa lagta hai
1145Maharaj ji : haan. Usko dekhke log khush ho gaye ki bahut acha kia, ye sab bole. Wo buzurg
1146the na humare gaon ke wo sab bole bahut acha tumne banaya hai. Toh itna bola na toh isme
1147humari jigyasa aur bhad gayi. Ye mujhe dhagas ho gayi ki aur zada acha kaisa lagega, ese mai
1148aage bhada. Jo log nahi bolte ki acha nahi hai toh hum kuch bhi nahi hote. Isme response mila
1149humko
1150Me : logo ne apka kaam sarhaya

25

25

1151Maharaj ji : haan, usme se mai aage bhada. Aur bade bade mandiro me gaye, waha kaisa
1152poshak pehnaya jata hai wo sab dekha. Aur ab kya hai ab toh mandiro ka darshan karwate hai
1153TV me, badi badi design dikhate hai. Usme se hum mind lagake
1154Me : toh aap ek bar dekhte hai fir sochte hai ki kaisa lagega
1155Maharaj ji : haan, sochte hai ki esa banana hai
1156Aditya : ek bar dekhte hi yaad reh jata hai?
1157Maharaj ji : nahi kaagaz pe thoda drama kar leta hu
1158Me : fir kaagaz pe drama karke aap usko kaapad pe banate hai
1159Maharaj ji : haan kaapad pe banata hu. Ek mandir me mai gaya tha, usme kai saalo se
1160bhagwan ke kapde ek hi pehne the dusra tha hi nahi, aur ye toh samajhte hi nahi kapde ko.
1161Maine socha ki ye mandir apne seekhne ke liye bahut acha hai. Toh mai ja jake yaha maap
1162leke maine kapda banaya. Us waqt jab mai seekh raha tha. Toh waha toh kya ki humara bigad
1163jaaye toh bhi koi baat nahi, acha ho jaaye toh bhi koi baat nahi ( his face became very cheerful
1164when he said this ) . dheeme dheeme ye sab humare magaj me maap aa gaya, esa karne se
1165esa hota hai, ye maap aa gaya. Abhi bhi mai student hi hu
1166Me : abhi bhi seekh rahe ho
1167Maharaj ji : haan abhi bhi mai seekhta hu. Ye toh maine bataya na ki meri soch hi esi thi ki ye
1168dress kaise pehnaya jata hai, kaise banta hai.
1169Me : toh aap kisi bhi mandir me jaate hoge toh aapka dhyan sabse pehle yahi jaata hoga
1170Maharaj ji : haan bilkul sahi baat (with a big smile on his face, saying yes you got it right).
1171Kyunki interest hai na (laughs) thoda banate hai lekin dil se banate hai. Aur chota mota guzara
1172humara chal raha hai. Isse sab chala. Humara sab guzara isme chala aur zindagi bhi puri ho
1173gayi isme. Dekho ek toh kaam bhagwan ka hai or paet humara hai, toh ye mil jaata hai. Aur
1174hum mandir ke pujari hai. Hum jo kar rahe hai uske sath iska milan hota hai isliye humari jumm
1175gayi (claps once after saying this and laughs)
1176
1177(Then he was telling about the orders he had worked on and was telling the story about the
1178order that he took from that mumbai guy that he told us in out last meeting. )
1179
1180( After sometime I left from there for college with another classmate of mine who was also ther
1181in pethapur at that time, but Aditya had plans of staying there only and even Maharaj ji and
1182Kaaki were happy about it.)

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1183Transcript 4
118418th February 2015
1185
1186Finally after a long break we could meet Maharaj ji. There was a long break in our visit because
1187his relative who met with an accident was in coma and was in a critical state. We tried visitng
1188once but at that time he looked so tensed and worried about the whole situation and we didnt
1189find it appropriate to visit him in this situation.
1190
1191When we reached there, we saw that the gate was open so we assumed that Maharaj ji might
1192have gone somewhere on his activa, as he opens that part of the gate when he goes on his
1193active. We entered inside but couldnt find anyone there. I noticed that his active was also not
1194there so our assumption was right. His sewing machine was covered with a white cloth. There
1195was a lot of fabric around it. I think that was his new work for some mandir. It looked different
1196from what we saw earlier. Aditya went inside the kitchen to see if Kaaki was there. He called
1197me inside too and we saw the backdoor that they use to visit that ladys house. We went to the
1198other side from that door and saw that Kaaki was sitting there with that lady. There was a
1199drastic change in the surroundings. It made me feel as if I came to a very different place. The
1200financial and social difference was clearly visible from the kind of environment that was there.
1201That lady had a small room and a small verandah where both of them were sitting. Actually it
1202wasnt exactly a verandah but an open space in front of their single room house. An
1203autorikshaw was also parked there. I remember Maharaj ji telling us that that ladys husband
1204drives an autorikshaw. They had filled water in a big metal bowl kind of thing from which water
1205was spilling out. Aditya asked her why it was such then she said that there is no tap and they fill
1206water in one container and the rest just gets wasted. In the adjacent plot, goats were there and
1207there was a little foul smell also. We asked Kaaki about Maharaj ji. She told us that he had
1208gone to a hospital to get his blood pressure checked. After a while Kaaki went inside her house
1209and later even we did. We sat near Maharaj jis working place.
1210
1211After 5 minutes Maharaj ji came on his activa. Even Kaaka was with him. To me both of them
1212looked quite weak. Maharaj ji didnt have that usual smile on his face. He has been hopping
1213between Ahmedabad and Pethapur on regular basis which eventually affected his health and
1214was clearly visible. And even because of tension that he must be having. He then came and sat
1215next to us. We were asking him how he was and his relative. He was telling that he and Kaaka
1216had gone to see a doctor to get his blood pressure checked. It was quite high so doctor
1217suggested him some medicine. He was telling that he had been running in between
1218Ahmedabad and Pethapur so much that he couldnt take care of his health as he his whole
1219food routine got disturbed which lead to bad health. He didnt look like usual him. One couldt
1220easily make out by looking at him that he had been going though a tough phase in life.
1221
1222Later he went and sat on his chair and started working.
1223
1224Me : pehle wala saara kaam ho gaya?
1225Kaaka : wo toh le bhi gaya kal. Wo shivratri ka than na bhagwan ka toh kal le gaya.
1226Maharaj ji : ab kaam me kya hai ki pura samay nahi de pa raha hu.
1227
1228(Maharaj ji, Kaaka and Kaaki then started talking amongst themselves in gujarati for a while.)
1229
1230Maharaj ji : bahut late aaye tum, phone toh kabka aya tha
1231Me : haan aaj der tak class thi na humari
1232
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1233(Maharaj ji was making a floor sheet for a new order that he had got. I thought of trying it as
1234well, so I asked him if I could help him with it. He didnt mind me doing his work and looked
1235quite welcoming also. Since I had never used this machine earlier so it was completely new to
1236me and was trying to learn it and controlling the speed of it. I was trying to have control with my
1237foot and folding the fabric correctly so that I can stitch it properly. Kaaka gave me full
1238instructions on how to do it and what all things I need to take care of. It took me a while to
1239understand how to operate it and the whole process of stitching. There was a pedal for running
1240the machine, which I was controlling from my right foot as it was placed towards that side only
1241and near my thigh there was a lever that had to be pressed horizontally to lift up the needle in
1242order to place the fabric under the needle. Throughout he was looking at me and was seeing
1243how I was doing it. From his expressions I could make out that there was a concern from his
1244side for his work. But I noticed he has his own way and techniques of doing work. It wasnt very
1245professional but maybe with that level of work he was able to cater and satisfy the requirement
1246of his customers.)
1247
1248Maharaj ji : tumhare haath ka control nahi hai
1249Me : practice nahi hai
1250Maharaj ji : tumhe toh bahut mehnat karni padegi tab control aega
1251Me : thoda lagataar karungi na toh aa jaega
1252Aditya : abhi seekh jaegi, 5 minute me
1253
1254(Kaaka was continuously looking at my work and was instructing me throughout. After like 15
1255minutes Maharaj ji came to me)
1256
1257Maharaj ji : ye kya hota hai, dekho gadbad ho gayi
1258
1259(I then continued working for more time)
1260
1261Aditya : Maharaj ji iska bijli ka bill kitna aata hai?
1262Maharaj ji : kya?
1263Aditya : iska bill? Bijli ka
1264Maharaj ji : bill toh, isme toh bahut nahi ata
1265Me : toh ye aap hi dete ho ya trusty dete hai?
1266Maharaj ji : ek lamp jalta hai na toh zada nahi ata. Wo toh ek chatur ata hai
1267Me : par iska bill aap dete ho ya trusty bharte hai?
1268Kaaka : ye toh mandir ke trusty hi dete hai. Ye sab bill wahi karenge
1269Aditya : toh harr mahine kitna bill ata hai? Harr mahine ata hai ya do mahine
1270Kaaka : do mahine
1271Maharaj ji : isme toh bahut nahi ata. (asking me) ho gaya? Isko toh theek karna padega. Tum
1272khade ho jao. Kaha kaha chut gaya hai dekho, isko theek karna padega. Abhi control nahi hai
1273tumhare. Zada kaam karoge na tab control aega
1274Me : bahut time baad kia na
1275Maharaj ji : haan zada kaam karne se control aa jata hai. Wo kya hai ki gadbad ho jaati hai
1276
1277( He then started re doing everything that I did. Though his work wasnt very prcised but he
1278seemed to be quite particular about his work. Kaaka brought a big piece of fabric from inside
1279and placed it on the ground, under which Maharaj ji placed newly stitched piece of fabric. He
1280sat down and was mapping the pattern of the fabric kept above it and then directly cut it. He
1281didnt use a measuring tape or anything else and cut it according to his judgement. )
1282

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1283Maharaj ji : tum konse bhagwan ko maante ho? Bhagwan hai tumhara?

1284Aditya : haan
1285Maharaj ji : kya naam hai? Hindu nahi ho tum?
1286Aditya : humare ghar me Buddha ko maante hai, Buddhist
1287Maharaj ji : Buddhist
1288Aditya : gautam buddh
1289Maharaj ji : lord Buddha? Acha ( a smile on his face which was kind of showing that he knows
1290about it) wo toh cheen (china) me bahut hai
1291Aditya : bahut saari jagah hai. India me hai, China, Bhutan, Tibet
1292Maharaj ji : (asking me) aur tumhara?
1293Me : humara waha mata raani ko maante hai
1294Maharaj ji : ye paryaai shabd hai? Naam hai
1295Me : shera waali maata
1296Maharaj ji : shera waali, haann (he seemd to have recognized the name)
1297Kaaka : amba ji. Haan wahi shera wali bhi bolte hai na
1298Maharaj ji : wo toh picture me bolte hai na, shero wali. Jai mata di shero wali
1299
1300(after sometime)
1301
1302Aditya : maharaj ji ye kapda unhi ka hai
1303Maharaj ji : kya?
1304Aditya : ye kapda, unhone hi dia hai ya aap laaye ho
1305Maharaj ji : ye? Haan hum kal lekar aaye.
1306Aditya : acha
1307Maharaj ji : wo kal gaye the na Ahmedabad.
1308Aditya : or ye dusre wala
1309Maharaj ji : wo jo ye banwata hai na wo laaye the par fit maine kia. Aisa toh mai aath dus kar
1310dia. Wo pehle laya tha bola ki aisa kardo, toh maine kar dia tha. Pehle toh maine kia thaw aha
1311baithke maap leke sab yaha cutting kia. Cutting karke ek dafa toh maine bana dia par baar
1312baar toh kon maap lega, baar baar mai maap nahi leta
1313Kaaka : pehle banaya hua wo le aaye
1314Maharaj ji : ab kya hai ki esi taraf se cutting karke bana deta hu. Jaha jaha cutting hota hai
1315waha bana deta hu
1316Aditya: par ye banana se pehle bhi kaat sakte the na aap pehle
1317Maharaj ji : ye mai leke aya kal Ahmedabad se. uska phone aya tha jaldi bana do. Jaldi banao
1318esa hai esa hai, esa chalta rehta hai. Par mai kya karu, ab toh humari tabiyat sudharni padegi
1319tab chalega. Dekho kuch hota nahi par apna head hai na wo bhaari bhaari lagta hai
1320Aditya : sahi ho jaoge Maharaj ji, abhi thodi pareshani hai isliye esa ho gaya tha. Sahi se
1321khana wagerah khaoge toh sahi ho jaega. Kasrat wagerah karna
1322Maharaj ji : kasrat toh bahut karta hu. Mere jaisi kasrat toh koi bhi nahi karta lekin khaane ka
1323dhang hai na wo nahi badla isliye esa hota hai. Khaane me toh mai sab kha leta hu, bhajiya
1324wagerah. Doctor ne mana kia hai par mai fir bhi kha leta hu
1325Aditya : khaane me aapko kya pasand hai Maharaj ji?
1326Maharaj ji : bahut acha lagta hai dosa (we all laughed at this) aur usne mana kia hai, doctor
1327ne, par mai kha leta hu kya kare. Ab control karna padega (laughs!) nahi karenge toh hum
1328bahut pareshan ho jaenge
1329Aditya : toh aap dosa yahi khaate ho ya bahar khaake aate ho
1330Maharaj ji : nahi ghar pe
1331Aditya : (looking at kaaki) aapko aata hai dosa banana
1332Kaaka : sab chez ghar pe

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1333Maharaj ji : aur mai gandhinagar me bhi khaata hu lekin sirf ek hi hotel me

1334Me : konsa?
1335Maharaj ji : avkaar. Tumne dekhi?
1336Aditya : nahi
1337Maharaj ji : avkar nahi dekhi? Toh tumne kya dekha(the way he said it, it made me feel as if I
1338missed out something very great). Bahut VIP hai
1339Me: VIP hai
1340Maharaj ji : haan ji, bahut VIP hai. Kabhi kabhi humare bache aate hai na, unke janamdin aate
1341hai toh bolte hai daddu humko le jao toh mai le jaata hu kya kare. Aur le jaata aur kha bhi leta
1342(laughs!)
1343Me : apne shauk bhi pure kar lete ho unke bahane
1344Aditya : avkaar me hi kyu jaate ho
1345Maharaj ji : avkaar bahut achi hai. Bahut achi hai. Wo kya hai ki swachta me mai bahut manta
1346hu. Swachta hoti hai na mai waha jaata hu, jo swachta nahi hoti toh mai nahi khaata. Waha
1347daam bhi bahut hai, daam bhi bahut lagta hai lekin yaha hai na swchta hai isliye mai jata hu.
1348Par jab khaane ka mann karta hai na tab ghar me banate hai
1349
1350( After chatting with us for quite some time he winded up his work as it was his time to perform
1351rituals in the mandir. He performs puja at 7pm daily so before that he makes sure he winds up
1352every work and the left over he starts the next day. After performing puja he doesnt work. He
1353went inside and changed clothes. He was wearing a white dhoti and a white vest. He went
1354inside the mandir and switched on the mechanical drums. Maybe it was kind of an indication
1355for the whole village which would make them understand that it was puja time or maybe as a
1356mark of celebration.
1357We asked him if we would be available tomorrow also. But he had to go for some wedding so
1358the next day was a busy day for him. He had to attend a wedding where he was a pandit. He
1359asked us to come day after that.)

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1360Transcript 5
13611st March 2015
1362
1363There has been a lot of mismatch in the timmings with Maharaj ji. He has been so busy with his
1364work during these days that he could hardly spare any time to be at home. He was always out
1365for some or the other work. We have been trying to meet him but that just couldnt happen. This
1366day finally he was at home and could meet us. He asked us to visit him after 3 pm. We left at
1367around 4 pm and it took us around half an hour to reach his place.
1368
1369Since it rained the previous night so there were very less people in the lane in which he stays,
1370generally its crowded. That blue door was closed. We went inside and saw that few ladies were
1371sitting there in the mandir. Maybe some path or kirtan was happening. I had never seen any of
1372those ladies there earlier. When we moved a little more inside the house, towards my right I
1373saw Maharaj ji was sitting and was doing his work. I think he got some new order as last time
1374we visited he was working on some other fabric and this day it was completely different. We
1375went towards Maharaj ji, picked up chairs for us which were near his work table only and sat
1376with him.
1377
1378Aditya : (offering sweets) Maharaj ji, mai ghar gaya tha toh waha se mithai lekar aya
1379Maharaj ji : kya laaye?
1380Aditya : dilli gaya tha mai, mummy ne diya merko
1381Me : mithai lekar aya hai, dilli se
1382Maharaj ji : acha, dilli gaye the?
1383Aditya : mera ghar udhar hi hai na, isko baalu sai bolte hai
1384
1385( for sometime he was just looking at it only. From his expressions it seemed that he was quite
1386hesitant in having it. Maybe he doesnt eat things brought by others or maybe he doesnt know
1387us enough that he could take things. Then kaaki came and was asking what that was. She
1388tasted it. Maharaj ji was looking at her only. He looked very confused. After she had it he was
1389asking her how it was)
1390
1391Maharaj ji : isme kya ata hai?
1392Aditya : thoda sa khaake dekho
1393
1394(he was then asking kaaki if it was gyaras this day. Many people have superstition about not
1395eating things like rice on gyaras so I believe even he has some superstition about it. Kaaki was
1396asking what was it made of. After Aditya told what that was exactly and what was it made of
1397then he tasted it a little. After a while even Kaaka came there and Aditya offered sweets to him
1398also. Unlike Maharaj ji, he instantly took it and ate it. Maharaj ji was asking him also if it was
1399gyaras to which Kaaka confirmed that it was baaras this day and then he looked a little
1400relieved. After it was confirmed to him then he had it once more also
1401Those ladies who were sitting in front of mandir, started singing kirtan songs so it became a
1402little noisy then.
1403After having it, he then went inside the kitchen to wash hands and then came back and started
1404working again.)
1405
1406Me : ye naya order aya hai kya?
1407Maharaj ji : haan
1408Me : konse mandir ka hai?

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1409Maharaj ji : wo koba
1410Aditya : maharaj ji us din jo bana rahe the wo ban gaya?
1411Maharaj ji : haan wo toh ban gaya. Wo toh le bhi gaya
1412Aditya : le bhi gaye
1413Maharaj ji : mai nahi gaya tha, wo aaye the
1414Me : toh ye order lene k liye aap khud gaye the?
1415Maharaj ji : mai gaya tha, uska phone aya tha thode din pehle lekin mujhe toh time tha nahi,
1416abhi toh shadi me humara bahut samay ja raha hai. Do teen shadi karwa di
1417Me : toh unko kaise pata chala aap ye sab banate hai?
1418Maharaj ji : usko pata hai. Ye jo mandir hai na koba wala mandir, isme toh humara ladka hai,
1419hum usko esa kapda pehnate hai toh koba wale ko maalum hai.
1420Me : toh aap kisi mandir me jaate ho toh aap unko batate ho ki aap bhi ese kapde banate ho?
1421Kaise order milte hai aapko?
1422Maharaj ji : nahi kabhi kabhi mujhe mandir me jana padta hai naap lene ke liye. Ye dekho wo
1423ye de gayi hai, ye uska naap hai, ye humne banaya nahi hai, wo laayi thi. Tum ye dekho, usne
1424banaya hai aur maine banaya hai, usme farak hai. Hai na?
1425Aditya : kaafi farak hai
1426Maharaj ji : isme finishing hai, uske wale me finishing nahi hai. Kapda acha hai lekin galat
1427kaam kia hai
1428
1429(he was then showing all the detailing that he does in his work and the level of finishing he tries
1430to achieve)
1431
1432Me : maharaj ji aap jaise kisi naye mandir me jaate hai toh kya aap unko batate hai ki aap bhi
1433ese kapde banate hai
1434Maharaj ji : nahi mai kisiko batata hi nahi. Mai kisi ko batata hi nahi ki mai esa karta hu
1435Kaaka : maaloom hota hai sabko
1436Maharaj ji : mai toh kisi ko bolta hi nahi (smiles) or pehle toh time bhi nahi deta (laughs)
1437Aditya : abhi toh maharaj ji famous ho gaye
1438Kaaka : haan abhi toh sabko pata hai
1439Me : toh unko kaise pata chalta hai
1440Maharaj ji : haan (laughs) wahi toh baat hai. Wahi baat hai na(laughs) dekho hum paalad gaye
1441the, toh dekho waha koi bahar se aya, dekha toh usne kya dekha
1442Me : ki bahut sundar banaya hai
1443Maharaj ji : haan. Dekha toh wo bolega, wo sochne lagega kaha banaya hoga, kisne banaya
1444hoga
1445Me : use lagta hoga bazaar se leke aate honge
1446Maharaj ji : haannn. Wo apni taraf se puchtaaj karke yaha aa jata hai
1447Me : acha. Toh aapko kisi ko batane ki zarurat hi nahi padti
1448Maharaj ji : nahi pehle toh mai kisi ko time hi nahi deta. Jiske yaha humara kaam hai uske
1449paas humara phone number hai toh wo phone number deta hai. Toh pehle toh mai bol deta hu
1450tum paisa kharch karoge toh humare paas ana, phogat me nahi ana. Dekho mai batata hu. Ye
1451kaam tumne dekha na (referring to the one his just showed), ye phogat ka kaam hai. Toh isme
1452toh bahut paisa nahi lagega. Isme lagega? (pointing towards his work)
1453Me : isme toh samay bhi lagega, paisa bhi lagega
1454Maharaj ji : dekho, usne kai saalo se esa hi banaya hoga aur wo kisi darzi ke paas jaake bana
1455lete or sau do sau rupiya de dete, humare paas aega toh hazaaro ki baat hoti hai toh use zada
1456lagta hai. Isliye mai bol deta hu ki agar tumko paisa kharch karna hai toh ana warna ana hi
1457nahi. Hum esa kaam nahi karenge
1458Me : toh aap pehle hi unko bol dete ho ki kharcha lagega

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1459Maharaj ji : haan pehle bol deta hu. kehta hai maharaj ji humko dekhna hai toh mai bol deta hu
1460dekhna hai toh aa jao. fir humare sath charcha karte hai, fir humko sath le jaate hai, kabhi nahi
1461bhi le jata hai toh wo esa maap laega toh mai bana deta hu.
1462humare hisaab se ye( sample given to him) galat kaam hai, galat kaam karna hi nahi.
1463Aditya : kaaka aap bhi jaate ho maharaj ji ke sath?
1464Kaaka: haan
1465
1466(maharaj ji then went inside the room behind him and brought a more of those samples to
1467show us that how badly that was done. He even brought his work with him and compared it
1468with those samples.)
1469
1470Aditya : maharaj ji ye aapne kaise socha ki is rang ke sath yahi rang acha lagega. kahi aapne
1471dekha hoga na
1472Maharaj ji : nahi, hum banate hai na, kai saalo se banate hai toh humko color matching acha
1473aa jata hai. maine kai kai bar esa banaya hai. esa esa banaya hai na toh maine dekha hai,
1474humne esa kar dia
1475Me : ye bahut alag hai jo aapne hume pehle dikhaya tha usse
1476Maharaj ji : nardipur wala toh bahut acha banaya hai maine, wo toh le gaye chaar paanch din
1477ho gaye
1478
1479(he then again started comparing it with the samples)
1480
1481Me : ye toh esa lag raha hai ki bas pehnane k liye bana diya, sajane ke liye banaya ho esa nahi
1482lag raha
1483Maharaj ji : dekho ban toh jata hai lekin humare hisaab se hum dimag se kaam karte hai. aisa
1484kaam karte hai ki jo ache lagte hai, bahut ache lagte hai. yahi toh humara kaam hai, esa mai
1485sochta hu ki kaise ache lage.
1486Me : soch karte hai aap
1487Maharaj ji : haan. soch soch kar main banata hu. aur ab toh kya kai saalo se kaam kar rahe
1488hai toh wo toh thodi soch humare magaj me bhi aa jata hai. par wo kya hai acha kaam ache
1489hote hai, bure kaam bure hote hai
1490Aditya : maharaj ji aapne kabhi esa nahi socha ki in sab ki ek photo hoti aur uski kitaab hoti
1491dikhane k liye
1492Maharaj ji : haan. wo kya hai maine ek album kia tha. album banaya tha, aur ek dafa ye album
1493humara kahi raaste me girr gaya. usme sab tasveere lagayi thi, toh kahi raaste me girr gaya ya
1494kahi chorh aya, usko bhi teen chaar baras ho gaye, hai hi nahi humare paas.
1495
1496( we told him that we would make one for him which would have images of all his work so that
1497he can show his work to his customers. Listening to it he became very happy. Throughout the
1498time he was talking to us, he was working as well.
1499He brought a small album from inside which had few pictures of his work. as he was flipping
1500the pages, a photograph of his elder son wo died in an accident also was there and his
1501grandosns's also. Aditya asked him who he was and he told it. There were no expressions on
1502Maharaj ji's face when he saw the phtograph, neither happy nor sad. He had some blank
1503expressions, which he had when he was showing other photographs also.)
1504
1505Me : kaaka bhi jaate hai aapke sath jab aap mandiro me jaate hai kaam se
1506Maharaj ji : kai kai me aate hai. bade mandir hai na isme hum sath le jaate hai, thoda sa
1507madad kare isliye mai sath le jaata hu
1508Me: kis prakar ki madad

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1509Maharaj ji : naap lene me. bada bada mandir hota hai na usme uska naap lena hai na toh apni
1510maap patti wo pakad lete hai or batate , hum ek diary me note lete
1511Me: unko bhi ye maap lena ache se ata hai na
1512Maharaj ji : haan. bata diya hai maine ki esa karo esa karo
1513Me : aapne sikha diya matlab unhe
1514Maharaj ji :haan
1515Aditya : kaaka ka naam kya hai?
1516Maharaj ji : baddev bhai. uska naam hai baddev bhai
1517
1518(after a while)
1519
1520Me : kal kahi bahar gaye hue the aap?
1521Maharaj ji :kal? haan. parso humare ghar guest aaye the aur kisi vyavarik kaam se hum bahar
1522ghumte the
1523Me: haan kyunki kal kia tha maine aapko phone toh kaaki ne kaha aap ho nahi
1524Maharaj ji :hum bahar agye the humare guest ke sath, wo ghar pe hi thi
1525Me : kaaki nahi gayi aapke sath?
1526Maharaj ji : nahi wo nahi aayi. akele hum gaye the
1527Me : kaaki ko bhi le jaate unhe bhi ghuma laate bahar sath me
1528Maharaj ji : isko? wo kya hai ki yaha soona ho jata hai, mandir hai isliye yaha thodi der ja sakte
1529hai lekin saare din hum nahi ja sakte.
1530Me : toh fir aapko kaam se kahi jana hai toh kaaki toh yahi rehti hogi
1531Maharaj ji : wo kaaka hai na usko baitha dete hai aur baad me chale jaate hai. wo pura din
1532yaha baith jata hai aur rakhwali karta hai mandir ki, kon ata hai kon jata hai, humare kaam wala
1533koi aata ha toh usko bhi jawab de deta hai.
1534Me : kitne baras se jaante hai aap kaaka ko?
1535Maharaj ji : wo toh saat saal se. jab mai yaha aya tabse
1536Me : toh tabse wo aapke kaam me bhi madad karte hai
1537Aditya : aapke ache dost ban gaye hai wo abhi
1538Maharaj ji : humare paas yaha aya karte the, yaha baithte the. ye akela hai, iski aurat nahi hai,
1539bhagwan ke ghar chali gayi
1540
1541(while he was working and cutting some fabric, i noticed he never used any pencil or chalk to
1542mark the measurement. He would keep the sample and place his fabric over it and cut it
1543directly or would stitch two pieces together and then cut one based on the pattern on the other
1544fabric that he stitched it with. Or would measure with the help of measuring tape, cut it,
1545measure again, cut it )
1546
1547Aditya : maharaj ji kabhi aisa hua hai jiske liye aapne kapde banaye ho use pasand na aye ho
1548Kaaka : aisa toh baat hi nahi ho sakti, wo uski marzi se hi banta hai
1549Aditya : nahi jaise ki color pasand nahi aya
1550Maharaj ji : esa kabhi hua nahi
1551Kaaka : color bhi unki marzi se, graahak ki marzi se hota hai sab, ese hota hi nahi hai ki na
1552pasand pade
1553Maharaj ji : wo chahta hai na waisa hi mai banata hu
1554Kaaka : rang apni marzi se nahi karte
1555Me : unse puchke
1556Kaaka : haan uska ye bhav uska ye bhav, konsa rang hai, konsa kapda hai, konsa astar hai

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1557Maharaj ji : hum material mehenga istemal karte hai toh zada paisa lagta hai aur chaalu lagate
1558ho toh kum paisa lagta hai. Lekin kaam toh mehenga laga du ya sasta laga du, kaam toh aisa
1559hi banega. kaam me koi diggad nahi. ye jo maine tumhe dikhaya tha na, esa mai karta hi nahi
1560Me : kar bhi nahi sakte, aapke haath me itni safai aa gayi hai
1561Maharaj ji : wo mujhe bole na ki jo bhi paisa chahiye mai du, toh bhi mai esa kaam nahi kar
1562sakta
1563Kaaka : ese naam kharab hota hai
1564Maharaj ji : humari izzat kharab ho jaegi isliye nahi banata hu. Kaam na ho toh koi baat nahi
1565par esa karta hi nahi. kai kai aate hai na toh wo puchke chale jaate hai.
1566Kaaka : apna kaam hi hai na wo grahak dekh dekhke ata hai
1567Maharaj ji : ek graahak aya tha na wo bolta tha, itna bhagwan hai humara (showing with his
1568hands) aur che saat murtiyaan hai aur iska banana hai. Maine kaha bina dekh hum kaise
1569banaye. tum kuch aadhar lao humare paas. toh mai bola tum yaha mujhe le jao, mai dekh
1570lunga, naap leke ban jaega. Dekho yaha kaam pada tha toh maine dikhaya, ki esa banega aur
1571itna lagega. do sau teen sau rupiye me toh ban hi nahi sakta
1572Me : haan mehnat hi itni lag jaati hai
1573Maharaj ji : wo kai purana hota hai na, purana vastr hota hai, bhagwan ko laga hua hai, wo
1574banwaya toh do sau teen sau rupiye me banwaya, ab kya hai ki wo kaam galat wala hai.
1575
1576(after sometime)
1577
1578Me : aap pencil wagerah use nahi karte na
1579Kaaka : nahi wo cutting me kharab ho jaega na, tedha medha ho jaega.
1580Maharaj ji : iski bhi zarurat padti hai lekin bada kaam hota hai na usme, chalk se hum lakeer
1581kheech lete hai
1582Kaaka : paanch metre dus metre itna kaam ho na usme zarurat padti hai
1583Maharaj ji :hum lakeer kheech lete hai chalk se, jab bahut bada kaam ata hai na isme toh
1584karna hi padta hai.
1585
1586(he then started stitching the fabric that he was cutting)
1587
1588Maharaj ji : abhi lock lag jaega dekho, ye maine banaya toh abhi lock laga deta hu. lock
1589samajhte ho na
1590Me : lock kaise?
1591Maharaj ji : ye dekho ye lock ho jaata hai
1592Me : acha ye patti laga ke
1593Kaaka : haan
1594Maharaj ji : acha bhi lagta hai or lock ka kaam ho jata hai. isne lock lagaya nahi toh dekho
1595kitna kharab lagta hai. ye kitna kharab hai. ye galat kaam hai, esa hum nahi karte. Thoda kaam
1596karo par acha kaam karo. Zada karna hi nahi (smiles) thoda kaam karna lekin acha karna, yahi
1597humari soch hai. Kaam thoda karo lekin acha karo. Aisa karo jo aadmi ko pasand aa jaye,
1598bhagwan ko pasand aa jaye, banane wale ko pasand aa jaye aisa kaam karo. humare pasand
1599nahi aaye aisa toh hua nahi.
1600pehle se hi mai usko saaf saaf bata deta hu, jaise bataya na maine tumko, waisa hi baat mai
1601uske sath kar leta hu. Humari baat achi lagti hai toh banwata hai, nahi achi lagti toh chale jata
1602hai. kai ese log hai chale bhi gaye or aa bhi gaye (laughs)
1603Me : fir se aa jate hai soch vichar karke
1604Maharaj ji : haan. do saal baad koi ek saal baad aa bhi gaye (laughs) aisa hota hai
1605Aditya : aisa hua hai maharaj ji

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1606Maharaj ji : haan. kai humari baat achi nahi lagti toh chorh jaate hai ki humko nahi banwana
1607hai toh hum nahi banate. chale jaate hai wo, fir kabhi kabhi saal ke baad ata hai koi do saal ke
1608baad ata hai. Aur mai wo bhi bhul jata hu
1609Me: ki wo aaye the?
1610Maharaj ji : haan ki wo aaye the
1611Me : unko yaad rehta hai par
1612Maharaj ji : wo mujhe yaad dila dete hai (laughs) mai toh bhul hi jata hu. Jo kaam karna nahi
1613hai wo kyun magaj me rakhe, karna hai wo kaam magaj me rakho aur faltu baat kyu magaj me
1614rakhe isliye mai bhul jata hu. Wo kya hai, humara dhanda hai na toh humare dhande me toh
1615kai aate hai kai jaate hai
1616Me : haan kis kis ko yaad rakhenge
1617Maharaj ji : kis kisko yaad rakhenge. aata hai jata hai aata hai jata hai. Ek baat sahi hai ki wo
1618thode dino me aa jate hai na toh yaad rehta hai. Wo aega na toh wo bolega ki maharaj ji mai
1619aya tha tumhare paas
1620Me : fir wo aapko yaad dilaate honge
1621Maharaj ji : haan. Tab mai usko bolta hu ki kyun chale gaye? ki tumhara paisa zada laga
1622tumhari baat achi nahi lagi. Toh mai bolta hu mera kaam pasand nahi aya? Pasand aya toh
1623paisa lagega
1624Aditya : dusri bar maan jaate hai fir wo.
1625Maharaj ji : haan, maine dharmadha toh khol nahi rakha (all laughs) mai toh mere paet ke liye
1626kar raha hu
1627
1628(i saw kaaki was doing brooming this day so i asked her about that lady that does all the
1629cleaning at their place. She told that she had gone somewhere out)
1630
1631Maharaj ji : tumhe banwana hai toh banao, nahi banwana hai toh jao (laughs) koi diggad nahi
1632Me : aapke paas pehle se hi bahut kaam hota hai
1633Maharaj ji : kaam toh humara sahi hai na. Usko pucho (referencing kaaka) kaam toh chalta hi
1634rehta hai
1635Kaaka : kaam toh chaalu hi rehta hai baarah mahine
1636Maharaj ji : humara mood nahi hai, mai kaam nahi karta, baithta hu tv dekhte hue, waha baith
1637jata hu, kisi ke sath baat karta hu, wo baat sahi hai lekin kaam toh chalta rehta hai
1638Me : kaam ki kami nahi hai aapke paas
1639Maharaj ji : haan kami nahi hai, tumne dekh liya ki bahut kaam pada hai
1640Me : roz aapke paas naya kaam aa jata hai
1641Maharaj ji : haan (laughs) dekho mai kya batata hu tumhe atishyokti lagegi. Humare paas itna
1642kaam hai ki logo ka phone aate hai . Dekho kai ne toh ek maas pehle phone kia tha, mai jaata
1643hi nahi. Kyun nahi jaata?
1644Aditya : time ki wajah se
1645Maharaj ji : nahi dusre kaam me the hum.
1646Me : acha
1647Maharaj ji : maine bola na, tumhare jaisi ladkiyo ki shadi karwadi, aisa bhi humara kaam hai,
1648ye bhi karna padta hai toh hum jaate hai
1649Me : toh waha se bhi aapko dakshina milti hogi
1650Maharaj ji : ( insantly replied ) haan milti hai
1651Me : toh wo aap maangte hai ya apni shradha se dete hai
1652Maharaj ji : waha?
1653Me : haan
1654Maharaj ji : nahi wo toh kya hota hai, wo toh in sabko maaloom hai, sabhi ko maaloom hai. ek
1655ladki ki shadi ho jaaye toh humko 2500 rupiya dete hai. samajh gaye?

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1656Me : toh sabko pata hi hai ki aapko itna dete hai

1657Maharaj ji : haan, teen din jana padta hai. Ek ladki ke peeche teen din jana padta hai
1658Aditya : teen din kyun?
1659Maharaj ji : pehle din toh humare gansesh sthapna hoti hai, fir grah shanti yagna hota hai. Ye
1660sab karta hai. Aur yaha baraat aati hai teesre din aur baraat me mai uski shadi karaata hu toh
1661teen din jana padta hai. Isiliye paisa lagta hai toh wo toh de dete hai
1662Me : kai log toh zada bhi de dete honge
1663Maharaj ji : kai zada bhi dete hai
1664Kaaka : haan zada bhi dete hai
1665Maharaj ji : kum hum nahi lete
1666Kaaka : 2500 se kum nahi lete
1667Maharaj ji : kum lete hi nahi. Par koi gareeb hai, uske paas kuch hai hi nahi, aise bhi maine
1668shadi kara di hai
1669Me : toh aap usne kuch nahi lete
1670Maharaj ji : kuch nahi liya, maine diya usko. Aisi bhi baat hoti hai. Maine paanch sau rupiya de
1671diya usko. Uske paas hai hi nahi kuch. Yaha rehti hai ek, uske paas kuch hai hi nahi. Bartan
1672saaf karke dusre ke, apna peat bharti hai. Uski ladkiyan hai, mere paas ayi ki pandit ji shadi
1673karaani hai, maine kaha ki mai aunga.
1674yahi toh bhagwan ki kripa hai ki itni umar ho gayi toh bhi kaam karte hai.
1675Me : toh aap retirement kab loge kaam se
1676Kaaka : nahi retirement toh lena hi nahi hai
1677Maharaj ji : lena hi nahi, mera chale toh lena hi nahi
1678Kaaka : haath pao chalta hai tab tak nahi lene. Bhale aise hai sau baras ho jaaye
1679Me : toh aap karte rahenge jab tak kar sakte hai
1680Maharaj ji : dekho usne chorh dia (referring to kaaka) uska shareer bigad gaya, bahut dawaiya
1681leta hai. mera chale na toh maine hona chahta hi nahi. Dekho kaam karne se apna shareer
1682acha rehta hai aur kaam nahi karoge na toh aalas aa jaegi (laughs). wo bimar hota nahi hai par
1683bimar dikhta hai, kyun? kyunki wo kaam chor hai
1684
1685(from the word "kaamchor" he then started talking about a movie titled the same. He was telling
1686the whole story of it n how much he likes it.
1687
After a casual discussion about movies with him we then left for college. Till then he had even
completed the work that he was doing. We told him that we will come and visit him again after
some days.)
1688

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