25 Any one who has seen me has seen the Father

Last updated 06/19/14 this study is seven pages long

Some say that when it says in John 14:7-9 Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father, the passage is saying that
Jesus is the Father therefore Jesus is God.
The same argument both for and against can also be based from John 12:45
On the face of it this might seem like a valid argument, however I will show that this interpretation is an incorrect
conclusion and that John 14:7-9 does NOT show Jesus to be God.
Whether you agree or disagree, in part or in whole, big or small, please email me any feedback to help improve this
study. I would also appreciate any help with its logic, grammar, typos, editing etc.
Before analyzing the passage in question in John 14:7-9, and the relationship of Christ with God, I am going to
provide some evidence that has to be taken into account when interpreting our passage
Index
Part 1A
Part 1B
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
Part 6

OT No one can See God and Live

NT No one can See God and Live
Jesus has no equality with God
Jesus and the Father
Jesus is under the Authority of God
The Trinitarian Formula
John 14:7-9

Part 1A OT No One Can See God And Live

The following scriptures show that people did actually see God but they expected to die once they had seen Him. In all
these cases, except the sons of Aaron, the people did not die after seeing God. (Part 1A-1B are taken from the study
called 01F God and His Glory is Coming to Live with the People).
Genesis 32:30 For I have seen God face to face, and yet my life has been delivered
Vs30 Jacob expected to die and realized he was spared which was an exception to the norm
Hebrew: raah elohiym paniym paniym.
Saw God face to face
Exodus 19:20 The LORD descended to the top of Mount Sinai and called Moses to the top of the
mountain. So Moses went up 21 and the LORD said to him, "Go down and warn the people so they do not
force their way through to see the LORD and many of them perish. 22 Even the priests, who approach the
LORD, must consecrate themselves, or the LORD will break out against them." 23 Moses said to the
LORD, "The people cannot come up Mount Sinai, because you yourself warned us, 'Put limits around the
mountain and set it apart as holy.' "24 The LORD replied, "Go down and bring Aaron up with you. But the
priests and the people must not force their way through to come up to the LORD, or he will break out
against them."
Vs21 If the people had forced their way through they would have seen the LORD but would have died from it.
Vs22 It is unclear how far the priests could go if they were consecrated.
Vs24 It is unclear what it means that the LORD will break out against them.
Exodus 20:19 and said to Moses, "You speak to us, and we will listen, but do not let God speak to us, lest
we die."
The people thought that if God spoke with them, they would die.

Exodus 33:20-24 But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live."
21
Then the LORD said, "There is a place near me where you may stand on a rock.
22
When my glory (H3519/Kabowd) passes by, I will put you in a cleft in the rock and cover you with my
hand until I have passed by.
23
Then I will remove my hand and you will see my back; but my face must not be seen."
The LORD God spoke to Moses and said, "no one may see me and live."
Leviticus 10:1 Now Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron offered unauthorized fire before the LORD
Vs2 and fire came out from before the LORD and consumed them and they died before the LORD
Leviticus 16:1 the two sons of Aaron, when they drew near before the LORD and died
vs2 Aaron not to come before the mercy seat so that he may not die. I will appear in the cloud over the

seat

Aarons sons died when they saw the mercy seat

Deuteronomy 5:24 This day we have seen God speak with man, and man still live
These people expected Moses to die because he had spoken with God.
Nothing here says Moses saw Gods face.
Judges 6:22-23 With the tip of the staff that was in his hand, the angel of the LORD touched the meat and
the unleavened bread. Fire flared from the rock, consuming the meat and the bread. And the angel of the
LORD disappeared. 22 When Gideon realized that it was the angel of the LORD, he exclaimed, "Ah,
Sovereign LORD! I have seen the angel of the LORD face to face!"
23
But the LORD said to him, "Peace! Do not be afraid. You are not going to die."
The LORD said you won't die for seeing the angel of the LORD face to face.
It seems that Gideon did not see the LORDs face, or perhaps he did and he was given an exception.
Judges 13:22 "We are doomed to die!" he said to his wife. "We have seen God!"
Micah says he is going to die for seeing God, although it was in fact the angel of the LORD that he had seen
Summary:
Genesis 32:30
Exodus 19:20
Exodus 20:19
Exodus 33:20
Leviticus 16:1
Deuteronomy 5:24
Judges 6:22
Judges 13:22

Jacob saw God face to face and was spared

if the people see the LORD God they will perish
The people thought that if God spoke with them, they would die.
no one may see Me and live
the sons of Aaron drew near before the LORD and died
These people expected Moses to die because he had spoken with God
the angel of the LORD, or the LORD, said you are not going to die for seeing him.
we are doomed to die because we have seen God

The general viewpoint of the people of the OT, from these eight passages, was that if they saw the LORD God they
would die.
The question is, if Jesus is God when in time does the bible say that people don't die if they see God? Does Jesus
revise the position that people die if they see God?

Part 1B NT No One Has Ever Seen God

Only in the NT does scripture say no one has ever seen God.
As Jesus is among the people who says this, therefore because he has "all authority" then it must be true.

No One Has Seen The Father

John 5:37 And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his
nor seen his form.

voice

Jesus said "you have never heard the Father's voice or seen his form." If no one has ever seen the Father, then Jesus
cannot be the Father who is God.
Some might argue, we haven't seen God the Father which is different. See John 20:17 answers this when it says
I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.
It also seems strange that the Father testified, if no one has heard Him. What about Luke 9:35 where God says "this is
my son"? This is the Father testifying!
Perhaps these statements by Jesus applied to the Jews he was speaking to.
There is definitely some confusion here, however the point is Jesus says those people have not seen the Father.
John 6:46 No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.
No one has seen the Father except Jesus.
Jesus is from God.
1 John 4:4 You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in
you is greater than the one who is in the world. 5They are from the world and therefore speak from
the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them. 6We are from God, and whoever knows
God listens to us;
Paul said the disciples are from God, and the we in vs. shows Paul was from God. Also John the Baptist in
John 1:6.
People are of God. 1 Samuel 9:6 & 10, Samuel. 1 Kings 12:22 Shemiah 1 Kings 17:24 Elijah etc
Jesus is of God, he is the Son of God.
People are from God, and of God, yet they have not seen the Father.
Jesus is from God, and of God, and has seen Father.
My understanding is that Jesus is from and of God in a different way! Perhaps because he was with God and of God
before coming to the earth. Perhaps the disciples position changed between John 6:46 and 1 John 4:4.
Jesus tells us that he is the exception and that only he has seen the Father.
No One Has Seen God
John 1:18 No one has ever seen God,
Oudeis horao theos
No man seen God
John says that no one has ever seen God, he continues saying Jesus is the exception.
Colossians 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Because God is invisible, then no one has seen Him.
1 Timothy 1:17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory (G1391/doxa)
forever and ever. Amen.
God is invisible.

1 Timothy 6:15-16 which God will bring about in his own timeGod, the blessed and only Ruler, the King
of kings and Lord of lords,
16
who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him
be honor and might forever. Amen.
Vs15 God brings Jesus in his own time
Vs16 No one has seen God, or can see him (except Jesus.)
Vs16 Unapproachable light
1 John 4:12 No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made
complete in us.
John says no one has seen God.
1 John 4:20 If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love
his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen.
Cannot love God, whom he has not seen.
Summary:
John 5:37
John 6:46
1 John 4:4

Jesus said you have never heard the Father's voice or seen his form
no one has ever seen the Father, except Jesus. Jesus is from God.
We, like Jesus, are from God and of God

John 1:18
Colossians 1:15
1 Timothy 1:17
1 Timothy 6:13-16
1 John 4:12
1 John 4:20

No one has ever seen God

the invisible God
invisible, the only God
God, whom no one has seen or can see
No one has ever seen God
cannot love God, whom he has not seen

Jesus said no one has ever seen the Father

Paul said God is invisible
Timothy said God is invisible, lives in unapproachable light, and no one has seen or can see.
John says no one has ever seen God yet he spent numerous years seeing Jesus.
Jesus, John, Paul and Timothy all say God is invisible, has not and cannot be seen. Therefore none of them could have
understood Jesus to be God otherwise all these passages would be nonsense.

Part 2 Jesus has No Equality with God

John 14:28 You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be
glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.
Summary:
Jesus clearly says he is less than the Father. If Jesus is equal with the Father why would he say this?
It would be a dishonor to God and to Christ (who in everything he did elevated God) if Christ were to be elevated in
such a way that God was set to the side rather than in a position over Christ.
There is an in depth study 02E Jesus has no equality with God linked here coming September 2015 that shows that
because Jesus has no equality with God the Father he cannot be God in any way

Part 3 Jesus and the Father

These are single passages from an in depth study 01D The NT Father. They are from Parts P11A-E God caused Jesus
to live.
P11A God was the father of Jesus before creation
John 6:37-40 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.
38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.
39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up
at the last day.
Vs37 The Father gave people to the Son, before that point the son did not have them.
Vs38 Jesus the son of the father was in heaven, then came to earth and became the son of man
Jesus came to do the will of the Father who he was with before this time
Jesus was sent by his Father
Vs39 Jesus as a son was in existence before coming to the earth and was sent by his Father, God.
P11B Today I have become your father
Acts 13:32-34 What God promised our fathers
33
he has fulfilled for us, their children, by raising up Jesus. As it is written in the second Psalm: " 'You are my
Son; today I have become your Father.
34
The fact that God raised him from the dead, never to decay, is stated in these words:
Vs 33 today I have become your father different from the day before when this wasnt his father.
Quoting Psalm 2:7
This happened before the creation of the world
Vs37 Jesus physical body will never see decay
Jesus spirit will not see decay as he is the first to inherited eternal life
P11C The Father caused the son to live
John 5:26 For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son to have life in himself.
Jesus is speaking.
God doesnt need anything granting to himself, as he owns everything.
Jesus had to be granted something by God the Father, before this point Jesus did not have it.
Jesus is not God the Father if he needs to be granted something
P11D God is Jesus heavenly father
Revelation 1:6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Fatherto him be glory and
power for ever and ever! Amen.
John says we are to serve the God and Father of Jesus.
There is no confusion that John thinks Jesus is God, or that John thinks God is a figurative Father.
Also Mathew 10:32-33, 15:13, 18:34-35, 26:42, 26:53,
The statements God and Father of our lord Jesus Christ or God the Father and the lord Jesus Christ are in Pauls
letters alone approximately 30 times inc 2 Cor 11:21, Eph 1:17, Col 1:3,
P11E Jesus is the son of God the Father
John 3:13 & 16 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaventhe Son of Man.
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall
not
perish but have eternal life
Vs13 The son came from heaven, therefore he was the son before he came and God was the Father before the son
came

Vs16 God gave his son, God did not give himself. Or numerous sons.
God had a Son, Jesus and he gave/sent him to the earth.
Jesus was in existence as the Son with God before the creation. God then gave/sent Jesus his Son to the earth.
If we say Jesus is God then we say that God gave his one and only God which is not biblical or logical.
Jesus was the Son of God before coming to the earth and becoming the Son of Man.
Summary:
John 6:37-40 God was the Father of Jesus before Creation
Acts 13:32-34 Today I have become your Father
John 5:26
The Father caused the Son to live
Revelation 1:6 God is Jesus heavenly Father
John 3:13-16 Jesus is the literal son of God the Father
These are single passages taken from a large study which defines the term "father" for people and "father" for God. In
the case of God He is the literal Father of Jesus Christ. One is not the other.

Part 4 Jesus is under the Authority of God

Mathew 28:18 Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
Who gave Jesus the authority?
Jesus has authority over our entire universe, but only after he had it given to him by God, like a manager.
All authority in heaven and on earth is the entire universe. God delegated the authority.
If Jesus was given authority then there was a time before he was given it, and he didnt have it! Was he God at that
time? No.
If he did already have the authority then why would God have to give it to him?
Jesus never gave authority to God.
How can Jesus be God and need to be given authority to do anything?
John 17:1 After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: "Father, the time has come. Glorify your
Son, that your Son may glorify you.
2
For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him.
3
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
4
I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work you gave me to do.
Vs2 God granted Jesus authority to give eternal life. Before this time Jesus did not have the authority.
Jesus had the authority before his crucifixion.
Vs3 The true God the Father AND Jesus Christ. Eternal life is both of them.
They is more than one. This separates God from Christ, Christ is not the only true God!
Vs4 Jesus came to complete work God had given him to do. God didnt give it to himself
Why if Jesus is God is he talked about as being additional to God?
Where are the scriptures that say one true God and the Father? There are none!
Summary:
Any authority that Jesus has was given to him by God the Father, therefore Jesus is not God the Father.

Part 5 The Trinitarian Formula

Summary:
The Trinitarian formula says that the Son is not the Father therefore a true Trinitarian would not use John 14:7-9 to
show that Jesus is the Father.

Part 6 John 14:7-9

John 14:7-9 If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him
and have seen him."
8
Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us."
9
Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone
who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
Vs7 Jesus responding to Thomas, confirms that "me" and "Father as well" are two distinct beings.
Vs7 Because Jesus has mirrored God the Father's instructions, words, commands, desires etc, Thomas has figuratively
"seen" the Father.
Summary:
John 14:7-9 tells us that Jesus is Gods representative (similar to a power of attorney) who says and does everything he
had heard or is commanded to do or say. Jesus is the exact representation of God and so we see God in the sense of
Jesus actions and words.
Summaries and Final Conclusion:
Part 1A Genesis 32:30
Jacob saw God face to face and was spared
Exodus 19:20
if the people see the LORD God they will perish
Exodus 20:19
The people thought that if God spoke with them, they would die.
Exodus 33:20
no one may see Me and live
Leviticus 16:1
the sons of Aaron drew near before the LORD and died
Deuteronomy 5:24 These people expected Moses to die because he had spoken with God
Judges 6:22
the angel of the LORD, or the LORD, said you are not going to die for seeing him.
Judges 13:22
we are doomed to die because we have seen God

The general viewpoint of the people of the OT, from these eight passages, was that if they saw the LORD
God they would die.
The question is, if Jesus is God when in time does the bible say that people don't die if they see God?
Does
Jesus revise the position that people die if they see God?
Part 1B John 5:37
John 6:46
1 John 4:4
John 1:18
Colossians 1:15
1 Timothy 1:17
1 Timothy 6:13-16
1 John 4:12
1 John 4:20

Jesus said you have never heard the Father's voice or seen his form
no one has ever seen the Father, except Jesus. Jesus is from God.
We, like Jesus, are from God and of God
No one has ever seen God
the invisible God
invisible, the only God
God, whom no one has seen or can see
No one has ever seen God
cannot love God, whom he has not seen

Jesus said no one has ever seen the Father

Paul said God is invisible
Timothy said God is invisible, lives in unapproachable light, and no one has seen or can see.
John says no one has ever seen God yet he spent numerous years seeing Jesus.
Jesus, John, Paul and Timothy all say God is invisible, has not and cannot be seen. Therefore none of them
could have understood Jesus to be God otherwise all these passages would be nonsense.
Part 2 Jesus clearly says he is less than the Father. If Jesus is equal with the Father why would he say this?
It would be a dishonor to God and to Christ (who in everything he did elevated God) if Christ were to be
elevated in such a way that God was set to the side rather than in a position over Christ.
Part 3 John 6:37-40 God was the Father of Jesus before Creation
Acts 13:32-34 Today I have become your Father
John 5:26
The Father caused the Son to live
Revelation 1:6 God is Jesus heavenly Father
John 3:13-16 Jesus is the literal son of God the Father
These are single passages taken from a large study which defines the term "father" for people and "father"
for God. In the case of God He is the literal Father of Jesus Christ. One is not the other.
Part 4 Any authority that Jesus has was given to him by God the Father, therefore Jesus is not God the Father.
Part 5 The Trinitarian formula says that the Son is not the Father therefore a true Trinitarian would not use John
14:7-9 to show that Jesus is the Father.
Part 6 John 14:7-9 tells us that Jesus is Gods representative (similar to a power of attorney) who says and does
everything he had heard or is commanded to do or say. Jesus is the exact representation of God and so we
see God in the sense of Jesus actions and words.
Final Conclusion
No one has ever seen God, let alone for a continual 33 years, and lived.
Jesus told us that no one has ever seen the Father
Jesus says the Father is greater than Jesus therefore Jesus is not the Father
God is the literal Father of his literal Son, Jesus
Jesus was given authority by God the Father
Jesus is Gods representative or agent.
Because of these facts, the Son is not the Father, Jesus is not God.