6/14/2015

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LifeClass

Aboutthisarticle

AninterviewwithYvonneRainer,oneofthemostinfluential
artistsofthepast40years.

Publishedon07/06/06
ByChrissieIles

Dancer,choreographerandfilmmakerYvonneRainerwas
oneofthefoundersofJudsonDanceTheatrein1962.Inthe
early1960sshetrainedwithMarthaGrahamandMerce
CunninghamandcollaboratedwithdancersStevePaxton,
TrishaBrown,DavidGordonandLucindaChilds.Seminal
worksincludeTrioA(1966)andContinuousProject
AlteredDaily(1970).Rainerhasalsocompletedsevenfilms
includingLivesofPerformers(1972),FilmAboutaWoman
Who(1974),TheManWhoEnviedWomen(1985)and
Privilege(1990).Shereturnedtodanceaftera25yearbreak
withAfterManyaSummerDiestheSwan(2002).Her

Backtothemainsite

memoirFeelingsAreFacts:ALifeispublishedinJune2006
byMITPress.
ChrissieIles:Yvonne,youwerebroughtupinSan
Franciscobyanarchistparents.Howdidtheatmosphereof
radicalismthatcharacterizedSanFranciscosincethe19th
centuryaffectthedevelopmentofyourapproachtodance
andart?
YvonneRainer:MyfatherwasItalian.At20hecameto
SanFranciscowherehemetmymotherinarawfooddining
roomtheyweredrawntoeachotherbytheirradicalism.By
thetimemybrotherandIcamealongintheearly1930s
therewereannualpicnicsintheItaliananarchistcommunity
andbythe1950samixofNewYorkanarchists,poetsand
artistshadgravitatedtoSanFrancisco.InmyteensIwas
indoctrinatedinanarchistthoughtandhadnoaspirationto
beanartistuntilmyearly20s.ImetAlHeld,followedhimto
NewYorkandstudiedacting.ThenIstumbledintoadance
classandthatwasit.
CIWhodidyoustudywithinNewYork?
YRIstartedstudyingdancewithEdithStephenandthenfor
ayearwithMarthaGrahamandAnnaHalprinbutbetween
1960and1968IstudiedwithMerceCunningham,althoughI
wasneverinhiscompany.Ialsostudiedandperformedwith
JamesWearingwhodidveryabstractausteredances,ala
Cunningham,andalsoverycampyvaudevilliantype
extravaganzas.
CIYoualsoattendedperformancesinYokoOnosloftofthe
groupsheandLaMonteYoungputtogether.Werethecross
disciplinaryeventsthatweregoingonoutsidedance,suchas
happeningsinthelate1950sandearly1960simportantto
you?
YRTheearly1960swasaveryfertiletimeforintermingling
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ofavantgardeactivityinallthearts,primarilythroughthe
influenceofJohnCagehiswritingsaboutchanceandZen
andsilenceaffectedpainting,sculpture,danceand
performance.SomeofthisactivitytookplaceinYokoOnos
loftbetween1960and61.AlsoattheRubenGalleryandthe
JudsonChurchGalleryartistslikeRobertWhitman,Claes
OldenburgandAllanKaprowpresentedtheirwork.
CIAnnaHalprinseemstobeacrucialfigureatthispoint.
YRShewasveryconsciousofwhatCagewasdoinginmusic
andwasusingsomeoftheseideasinherteaching.Iattended
aworkshopinthesummerof1960,whichwaspartlytaught
byLaMonteYoung.Icomposedascoreforscreendoor,
flashlightanddancer.Annasteachingandperformances
wereradicalbutshealwayshadatheatricalflairandinher
workshopsyoumightrunaroundcarryinganobjectshewas
veryinfluentialonme.OntheWestCoastshewasapivotal
figureandstillis.Herowndancingisquitephenomenalat
theageof83shesstillrunningaround.
CISopoetry,textandexperimentalfilmwereinfluentialin
yourperformanceandfilmworklateron?
YRTherewerentspecificfilminfluences,althoughI
certainlyfollowedavantgardefilmfromtheearly1950s
whenIfirstsawMayaDerensfilms.Iwasntsointerestedin
narrativeasadancer,althoughatfirstItoldstorieswhileI
dancedbutoneofthereasonsIbegantothinkaboutmaking
filmswasthatnarrativeviaHollywoodhadbeenunder
utilizedinavantgardefilmIalsowantedtodealwithmy
ownageingbody,autobiographyandspecificemotional
content.
CIInNewYorkintheearly1960sacrossoveremerged
betweendance,sculpture,film,performanceand
happenings.Inthisenvironment,didyouthinkofyourselfas
adancerorassomethingelse?
YRIthoughtofmyselfasadancerwhowaschallengingthe
boundariesthathadbeenestablishedbyMarthaGrahamand
otherAmericanmatriarchswhohadbeensoinnovativein
theprevioushalfofthecentury.Ithoughtofmyselfmuch
moreasadancerthan,say,SimoneForti,whoseuseof
pedestrianmovementwasabiginfluenceonme.InMay1961
shepresentedaneveningofdanceconstructionsatYoko
Onosloftthatinvolvedsimpleactionswithconstructions
likeaslantedplatform,tiltedat45degrees,attachedtothe
wallthedancersnavigatedonitbyuseofropes.BobMorris
andIperformedonaseesawtherewasawoodenboxthat
shelayunder,bouncingaball.
CIWasthatthefirsttimeyoumetSimoneForti?
YRImetherattheGrahamSchoolthroughafriendfrom
SanFrancisco,NancyMeehan,whoisstilldancingand
choreographing.
CIAndwhendidyoumeetTrishaBrown?
YRIntheHalprinWorkshopin1960inSanFrancisco,in
MarinCountywhereAnnastilllivesandconductsher
workshops.
CIAtthattime,breakthroughswereoccurringinart.Were
youawareoftheparalleldevelopmentstakingplaceinthe
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workofSol
LeWitt,DonaldJuddandDanFlavininNewYork?
YRAbsolutely,IwenttoalltheopeningsattheGreengallery
andMinimalismwastherisingaestheticofcourse.Buteven
beforethatin1957or58IsawRobertRauschenbergsshow
wherethegoatwiththetyrewasfirstexhibitedandIallbut
rolledonthefloorwiththerevelationofit.Iwasveryattuned
toallofthesebreakthroughsIliketosaytherewasground
tobebrokenandwewerestandingonit.
CIAndthoseartistswere,likewise,veryinfluencedbyyou.
JuddevennamedhisdaughterRainerafteryou.
YRYeahitwasaveryfebrile,exhilaratingtimeforeveryone.
CIHowdidyoucometomaketheimportantbook,Work
196173,whichwaspublishedin1974bytheNovaScotia
Press?
YRThisbookandothersintheserieswerethebrainchildren
ofKasperKnigwhowastheeditoroftheseries.
CIKnigisnowthedirectoroftheLudwigMuseumin
Cologne.WasheworkinginNovaScotiathen?
YRYes.IfirstmethiminNewYorkandheproposedthis
seriesofbooksbyandaboutartistslikeDanGraham,Claus
OldenburgandSteveReich.SimoneFortisHandbookin
Motion(1974)wasanother.IwentuptoNovaScotiain1973
andassembledwritingsandmetwithKnigeveryday.Itwas
reallyacollaboration.
CITherelationshipbetweenartanddanceatthistimeis
epitomizedinyourtextTheMindisaMuscle(1966),which
waspublishedinMinimalism:ACriticalAnthologywhich
waseditedbyGregoryBattcockandfirstpublishedin1968.
YRIwantedtoshowparallelsanddifferencesinthinking
aboutobjectsandtimeandspace,ortimeandactivity.Akey
istheideathattheartistshandhasbeenreplacedbyfactory
fabrication.Thephrasingindancesuggeststhatintermsof
tradition,musicalphrasing,accentsanddealingwithagiven
setofmovementsoradevelopmentofmovementintimeare
substitutedbyenergy,equalityandfoundmovement.In
traditionalballetnooneeverwalksastheywalkinthestreet
inmyearlyperformances,Iwascriticizedfordoingthis.
Whatcametobeknownasreductivismandminimalismwere
simplyawayofchallengingallthesenotionsofwhat
constitutedart.Cagewaskeyhere.Inhispiece433where
DavidTudorsatatthepianoforthatlengthoftimeandyou
startedlisteningtowhatwasgoingonarounditintroduceda
wholenewwayofteachingandoflookingattheworld.As
Cagesays,itwassobeautifulifyoujustpaidattentiontoit.
CIIvewatchedyouteachanNYUworkshopwhereagroup
ofyoungdancerssitinachairandperformeverydayactions.
Noneofthestudentshadyourfluidityandnaturalness.
YRTheparadoxisthatitsimpossibletobehaveinan
everydayfashionwhen100eyesareuponyou.In1962a
criticsaidofuswhyaretheysohellbentonjustbeing
themselves?Iamdiscoveringthisalloveragaininthis
presentdance,AGIndexical,WithaLittleHelpfromH.M.
(2005)whichisbasedonGeorgeBalanchinesAgonof1957.
Ithasthreepostmodernchoreographers,twoofthemhave
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studiedballet,onehasnot.Theballettraineddancer
performsmydanceentirelyenpointe.Thereisapointwhere
theothershavetocirclearoundherbeforeabigpartnering
section,originallyperformedbyonemanandonewoman
andnowperformedbythreepartneringwomenwho
manipulatethelimbsoftheballerina.Isaidbehaveasyou
dointhesubwaywhenyouwanttolookatsomeone,butyou
havetolookoutthecornerofyoureye,andthenyouavert
yourglanceassoonastheirgazemeetsyours.Thiskindof
studiedbehaviourisbestexemplifiedinaclassicpostmodern
dancebyStevePaxton,firstperformedin1967,called
SatisfyingLoverthatinvolveshimfeeding42peoplewho
cameoninones,twoandthreeswithspecificinstructions
abouthowfartowalkandtostandforacertainamountof
countsandthentheyexited.Itwasatthoughyouhadnever
seenordinarypeoplewalkacrossaspace.Itwasahighly
revelatory.
CIYouhavedescribedyourworkaspostMinimalistto
counterMinimalismsantimetaphoricalstrategies.
YRIneverwantedtobeconfinedtoasingleaesthetic.Inmy
earlysolosIwasdrawingonmanydifferentresourcesand
referencesfromthepedestriantoidiosyncratic
choreographedmovement.
ChrissieIles
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