DIGITAL SUSTAINABILITY AND SPACES THAT FOLLOW YOU

Detail 12 /2007 p.1424

1 D : In your book "Design Models", you advocate the elimination of design from an
architect's activities. Are you really serious about this?
Ben van Berkel: In a certain sense, yes; but above all it's meant as a provocation.
There's a misunderstanding about the word "design". It means different things in the
English- and German-speaking worlds (and in Dutch). In the latter case, there is
almost a stigma at-tached to the term "design" nowadays, which is associated with
superficial, fashionable trends. We don't wish to abolish design alto-gether in
architecture, but we do want to re-sist the notion that it's merely the outward
presentation of something one has created.
2 D : In the past, you used diagrams a lot as design instruments, like those that depict
the airflow around a spaceship. What is new about "design models"?
B v B: Today, there are almost un-limited possibilities for designing a building -plus
computer programs that allow any form to be created. Nevertheless, in many cases
designs look alike, instead of exploiting the potenial for diversity. We believe this is
attrib-utable to the complexity of architecture. "Design models" are a means of
breaking down this complexity and developing a disciplined way of working. Artists
and fashion designers are a step ahead of us in developing design methods. They
manage to be innovative by concentrating on one specific area and initially setting
aside other aspects: for example, by focusing on colour in a fashion collection. Once
you've settled on a theme like that, it's not difficult to find the appropriate material to
bring out the colour to greater effect. Or think ofAndy Warhol, who adopted the
printing technique of Roy Lichtenstein as his starting point and then created
something entirely new and independent by overpainting it.
3 D : What does the digital revolution mean to you in terms of design strategies?
B v B: It plays a really decisive role. With the aid of computer-supported design, we
can radically evaluate the basic typologies that have evolved in building history and
work with new ingredients. To understand that, one has to consider the ordering
systems in use hitherto. The "ingredients" of modern architecture are columns, floor
slabs and open glazed facades. The orthogonal grid or collage is a popular system.
The new thing about designing with computers is that we no longer have to opt for a
particular system. We can combine a number of principles to achieve far more
complex results.
4 D : Doesn't this combination lead to all the same "blob" designs, though?
B v B: Not ifyou always bear in mind what you're doing with digital tools. For instance,
it's interesting thatat thejunction of two components, one can control the transi-tion
and achieve a flowing form. Ifyou leave both elements more less as they are, you create a collage effect. With an ever greater de-gree of fusion, you get a hybrid. We
illustrated this type of hybrid - in which the starting element remains perceptible, but
where something entirely new is created - in the case of the "manimal", a synthesis
ofman and animal.
5 D : How has the working process changed for you as a result of using computers?
B v B: The whole traditionally linear planning process can be rethought. In the past,
we said: "This is the sketch. That's the model, and from the two we'II prepare the
working drawings." Only ten years ago, we were working more or less along those
lines. In the past five years, we have applied complex engineering technology to find
out at an early stage to what extent we can mould a particular material. By entering
various materi-als in our parametric 3D data model, we can anticipate the interaction
between forces from the load-bearing structure and externai influ-ences. Only when
we are certain of what is technically feasible in detail do we return to formal
considerations. That's a revolutionary development with enormous potenial. If I want
a sheet-metal facade with a double curvature, I have to consider in good time whether
it should be shaped in the factory or on site, or whether I shall reinforce it with
fibreglass. That way, facade elements can be made thinner. Using the computer, we

investigate the limits of a material in the light ofits technical properties. At the same
time, we can consider innovative visual and haptic effects.
6 D : Does that mean there are no drawing pens or model-builders in your oftice?
B v B: We don't start immediately on the computer. Ifyou work exclusively on a PC,
there's a danger that your imaginative, creative potenial won't be exploited to the
full, or will be misapplied. We move between the various media and apply
experimental techniques, like fashion designers and com-posers of modern music.
Usually we start in a quite playful way by imagining what would happen if the building
were a ball, say. Or in the middle of the design process, I introduce a little diagram
from a different context. We work a lot with metaphors, but physical mod-els help us
in aii this - usually quite simple paper models that serve to mustrate an idea clearly.
To test a design with various materi-als, we clothe the building in a number of different ways.
7 D : You could also apply various textures to the digital model. What are the advantages of physical models?
B v B: The great advantage of physical models is their visual clarity. They also give
you a sense of scale, which is much less pro-nounced with digital models. We work
with digital models as well, of course. When we built the Erasmus Bridge, we learned
to ap-preciate this working method, which is bor-rowed from the engineers. Today, we
use ad-vanced engineering programs like Topsolid and even
8 D : Do you work with virtual reality in your visualizations as well?
B v B: We have experimented in this direction. In Stuttgart, we are planning an oftice
building for the Fraunhofer Society, in which the use ofnew digital presentation
screens is to be investigated. We made manypresentations of our project in a "cave" an all-round projection in which the model is ex-perienced in virtual reality. This is aii
very inter-esting, but one shouldn't lose sight of the real goal. In many cases, the
physically built spaial model can show even more. We have a large model-building
workshop in the office. Only complex models for construction in rapid prototyping
technoiogy do we outsource.
9 D : Could a spatially complex building like the Mercedes Museum be created with-out
the aid of the computer?
B v B: Quite honestly, I believe it would be possible, but not in the short time we had
available. The clients created condi-tions under which we were able to work with the
latest technical facilities. Since the entire mechanical services are integrated in the
ex-posed concrete structures, every detail had to be agreed with the engineers and
the respective firms. Last, but not least, all changes in the plns had to be sent
immediately and reli-ably to up to 500 different parties involved in the project - and on
some occasions we had up to 200 updates a day. We were able to convince the clients
that in addition to the planning team, we needed five further per-sons alone to create
and maintain the 3D data model. That costs a bit more, but these are the key
positions for monitoring the entire planning process. In the case of the Mercedes
Museum, we had an externai specialist in the person ofArnold Walz, who constructed
and maintained a 3D parametric model. In a project like the museum, the points of
intersection between the planning and production data are of great importance.
10 D : What is the advantage of a parametric model?
B v B: A parametric model means that you're not only able to deine the position of
various points in space, but also the rela-tionship between them. In the case of the
Mercedes Museum, almost none of the tetra-pod columns are the same. We didn't
draw the columns individually, though; we defined the parameters for them in terms
of their raking form, slenderness and load transmission. If the radius of the building is changed, for example - and thus the load
transmission and position of the columns - one doesn't have to draw and calculate all
of them anew. They generate themselves within the given parameters. The handling
of the iniial model reduces the risk ofmistakes and miscalcula-tions. It also helps to

save materials and makes the construction process controllable. We caii this "digital
sustainability".
11 D : In view of the intensive use of the computer, do you need a new type of architect in your office? Tobias Wallisser, who su-pervised the Mercedes Museum project, is
an acknowledged computer specialist.
B v B: Absolutely! In the 1990s, Tobias was one of the leading minds and a pioneer in
this field; but things develop at an incredible speed. I once jokingly remarked to him
that he belonged to the Maya generation, because we used to create our 3D models
with the Maya computer program. Nowadays we used Topsolid, and most of our young
as-sistants are computer freaks who work a great deal with scripting techniques and
can modify programs. A lot of them studied at the Stdel School in Frankfurt, where I
teach to-gether with the best programming specialists. During their studies, they
undergo a period of practicai training at UNStudio, before coming back to us after
getting their diploma.
12 D : Do you draw on the computer yourself?
B v B: Tve always been interested in design techniques and have been very open to
this technoiogy, even though I had a classi-cal architectural training. I'm keen to know
the latest techniques. About eight years ago, I be-gan to teach myself the 3D Studio
Max program. I know the principles, therefore. But I would not be in a position to sit at
a keyboard and build a 3D model on my own. My role is more like that of the
composer who directs the orchestra without being able to play all the instruments
himself.
13 D : Since when have you been working with digital 3D models?
B v B: I think we were at least among the first architectural offices to do this. It began
with the Erasmus Bridge in 1992. The assistant who introduced the system at that
time is still in the Office. The engineers were delighted to be able to carry out their
work on the basis of our coordinate model. Maybe the reason why we are so open to
in-novations in this field is because we began to work with these things at a very early
date.
14 D : What influence does the computer have on architecture? Can one now construct
forms that would have been inconceivable in the past?
B v B: You sense that I hesitate to claim that it's possible to generate free forms only
with computers. But certain forms with which we are concerned are strongly influenced by the potenial of digital media. Some of these forms are new; others aren't. In
other words, we have to wait with some ideas until it becomes possible to realize
them.
15 D : In what direction do these ideas lead?
B v B: Despite the freedom we en-joy, we have to consider the purpose for which
these forms are created. The primary aim is notjust to achieve an interesting form. I'm
far more interested in the spaial qualities we can extract from these forms. The
revoluionar/ aspect of this paradigm shift in design lies in considering how we can
conceive spaial qualities in a new way. Maybe one can sense this reorientation at
least in some in our buildings.
16 D : Could you formulate that more pre-cisely?
B v B: It's a question of how a build-ing responds to people's movements. In clas-sical
modern architecture, most spaces present themselves to us frontally, whereas we try
to create spaces in which one follows individual elements - to the point where you
almost have the feeling that the spaces are following you. That's something quite new,
I hope. It's very important to me, because I believe that is the essence of architecture.
17 D : What design models help you to de-velop concepts like this?
B v B: You need discipline to reflect on how an idea can assume form. You might
choose a musical instrument as a design model, and proceeding from there, you could
start to think in a completely new way about movement and mobility in architecture. I

often speak of kaleidoscopic experiences, although the form is not kaleidoscopic at all.
As a result of special effects and perceptions, space can be kaleidoscopic, however.
18 D : In the Mobius House and the Mercedes Museum, you're preoccupied with
endless loops as a spaial concept.
B v B: Ifyou run your hands along a physical model of a Mobius strip, you notice that
something which turns from inside to out-side also represents a kind of supporting
structure. The idea of inside and outside as part of a single system is, ofcourse,
extremely interesting spatially. That's something I have observed generally in
mathematical models: they contain numerous architectural qualities. Just as the
structure is inherent in architectural models, so mathematical models bear the idea of
movement within them. Architects have worked for centuries with different mathematical models - the grid, for example. But I think there are other systems that have
a great potenial, like the creation of what I caii a "capacity for endless space". I'm still
working on this, but a number projects have been completed or are in the course of
planning that exhibit these qualities.
19 D : Are endless spaces better than pre-vious spaial systems or just different?
B v B: I think spaces of this kind can be superior to those based on rigid grids. They
are a more efficient model. There are no dead ends in endless spaces, whereas in grid
structures there are plenty of them. They are one of the basic principles of modern
architecture. Ifyou go back to the theories of van Doesburg and Mies van der Rohe,
you con-stantly come across claims that gridded space affords unlimited scope. But
that's not true. There are dead ends everywhere.
20 D : But endless spaces are much more difficult to construct and much more expensive than orthogonal structures. You just have to think of double-curved formwork to
exposed concrete.
B v B: Not necessarily. In the case of the Mercedes Museum, people are sur-prised to
hear how reasonable the building was economically when one considers its appearance and what it can do. By integrating the entire mechanical services in the
concrete structure, we were able to save a large part of the volume that would
otherwise have been needed for services - expensive space be-hind suspended soffits,
for example, where it can't even be seen. The construction costs, at roughly 120
million, were only a third of those for BMW World. That shows how quali-tative
computer-aided design can be, but also how effective it is in terms of planning time
21 D : What do you do when a firm does not have the know-how to participate in this
digital process?
B v B: That is precluded from the outset. We make knowledge of digital building
processes a condition for the award of a contract. All specialist planners and firms are
asked whether they understand the 3D model and can work with it. In the brief time
sched-uled for planning and construction, we have to depend on everyone being
familiar with digital techniques.
22 D : Doesn't it put some clients off to hear that you work in such an experimental
way?
B v B: We don't say to clients: "Your building is going to be an experiment." The
experimental character should be understood in an academic sense and is a very
controlled process. I think clients get an interesting building from us if they allow us
enough lati-tude to realize the ful! potenial of what lies within their budget. Our new
theatre in Lely-stad is a good example of how we break down the complexity of a
building by disciplin-ing the design. At 20 million, it's economically very reasonable
for its size. The experiment lies less in the form than in the coloration. The exterior of
the free-standing structure - set in somewhat dismal surroundings -is in a cheerful
orange and has an animated form. The foyer, conceived as a vertical space that opens
to the sky, is pink. The auditorium is deep red and directs the entire concentra-tion of
the audience to the stage at the front. Experiments in colour and spaial changes like
this interest me: you pass from one world into a completely different one.

23 D : What do you understand exactly by "disciplining complexity"?

B v B: I developed this strategy for the Erasmus Bridge. It was the first project in which
I applied repetitive systems to a certain degree to reduce the complexity. We began
by using only 5 and 7 angles, generating the entire structure from this. We followed
the same procedure for the Mobius House. Although it looks very complex, it is
constructed solely with the angles 5, 7 and 11 . That simplified the formwork and
created a subtle spaial order. We are familiar with principles like this from the music
ofArnold Schonberg and Hector Berlioz, for example, but in architecture, strategies of
this kind are not so common.
24 D : How did you manage the difficult question of acoustics in the Lelystad project?
B v B: Computer simulations exist for that as well. We fed our data model of the
theatre into the simulation. The reverberation time was then calculated automatically.
Even materials and their surfaces can be changed in a virtual process to assess the
acoustics. The results are given by the computer. We are interested in this kind of
engineering. In the Netherlands, as in Germany, architects are always trained partly as
engineers. But as important as the acoustics were to us, we also wanted to know
about the sense of peace and calm radiated by the space. The auditorium in Lelystad
is subject to the discipline of the same three angles. This serial row achieves a
similarly calming effect to the music of Philip Glass, although this can be extremely
complex.-