What are the qualities of a true prophet of god? and what is the purpose of human life on this earth?

Preface: In the name of Allah the Most Gracious, Most Merciful. All praise is for Allah the Creator, Sustainer and Cherisher of this Universe. His peace and blessings be on his Last Prophet, Mohammad and his family and his companions, after that. Recently I had a somewhat longer discussion on the Thread "No Muslims should Profane the name of Prophet" of TOPIX on some one who goes by the name of "Not Quitter" (NQ in short) on the subject of What are the qualities of a True Prophet of God. The discussion started with some "off the cuff" remarks from the lady / gentleman (I really do not have any personal info regarding my correspondent, though I 'suspect' that a female was behind that pseudo name), that in the hereafter, he will say to God that "according to him, The Prophet Mohammad, peace be on him, was not a true prophet of God" I asked in reply, what are the qualities of a true prophet of God and by which standard he rejected the prophet hood of our prophet. This discussion had many ups and downs, and it was with a great effort that I could bring it to presentable level. The discussion was not completed, because of "lack of interest" on the other side and their inability to continue and logical discussion for a long time. Other wise I would have applied these tests on all Known Biblical Prophets and shown how meager is the info we have about them and how strongly every quality fits the Last and Final Prophet of God. If his prophethood is not established, then there is no person on the earth whose prophethood can be proved. But the discussion was cut short, so I am presenting whatever record of that discussion for general public. The last part of discussion was on the topic of what is the purpose of Human life, here also we could not complete the discussion due to lack of interest from the other side. I wish it would be helpful to some one who is in the field of comparative religion. I seek pardon and forgiveness from Allah if I have made any mistakes in my posts. M.U. Qidwai Jubail, KSA Jan 2013

Index: # 1 2 3 How it all started What are qualities of a Prophet First Quality: They are humans Second Quality: They are males 4 Third Quality: Hand picked by God Fourth Quality: Not strangers to their people 5 Fifth Quality: Role Models for their people Sixth Quality: Protected from Sins 6 Seventh Quality: Seek No Rewards Eighth Quality: Sent to All Nations Ninth Quality: Do not Contradict each other 7 Tenth Quality: Receive Guidance from God Eleventh Quality: Some bring New Code, Some Do Not Twelfth Quality: Miracles or Signs 8 9 10 Thirteenth Quality: Prophesies Fourteenth Quality: Teachings of Prophet Fifteenth Quality: How People Treated them Sixteenth Quality: Fighting in the Cause of God 46-49 50-54 55-59 41-45 36-40 29-35 25-28 Description Page 5-11 12-17 18-24

# 11

Description Seventeenth Quality: The Age of Prophets has ended Eighteenth Quality: Duties of Prophets Nineteenth Quality: What we owe to Prophets

Page 60-73

12 13 14 15 16

The "Other List" Other List- Dithering Continues To "start over" again What is purpose of Human Life? Has Human Life any Higher Purpose?

74-77 78-86 87-103 104-110 111-127

Chapter-1 How it All started?

Chapter-1 How it started?

Question: In the hereafter, MUQ, if God asks me why I did not accept Mohammed as his prophet (before he sends me to hell), I will tell him (if I have the chance) that I did not think that Mohammed was a true prophet. I will say other things that will be between me and God, if He allows me to say those things before he drops me into hell. Ans. MUQ: First of all I thank you for being so frank and outspoken in your post. I would post a longer answer, because your sickness is not of you alone, but a general one. Many people take these things very casually and make statements without thinking or analyzing their consequences. A. God on the Day of Judgment: 01. Rest assured, God will give you every opportunity to place your case before Him on the Last Day and He will not sent you to any punishment, unless you yourself will agree that Yes I was wrong and I do deserve this punishment. 02. He is a just God and He has Created you and gave you the facilities of Hearing, Seeing, Reasoning and Analysis to check and verify any claim that people make in these matters. B. Attitude while evaluating conflicting evidences: 03. One thing He might ask you Were you really Objective and Open Minded, when you analyzed and rejected the claim of our prophet to the title of prophet or were you biased and closed minded when doing that? 04. This is very important question and you will not be able to hide even the innermost feelings buried deep inside your heart with your Creator. 05. When you have conflicting reports about someone, or some thing, should you not weigh both sides of evidences before making your choice and making your judgment or you will just hear only one side and decide?

C. Muslims evidence for the Prophet: 06. On one side Muslims have sworn statements from thousands of eyewitnesses who saw and met the prophet and watched his every move and then wrote down their reports in some of the most authentic books known to have been written by human kind. 07. Every statement is traced to an eyewitness who was a companion of the prophet, and biographies of every one in the chain is recorded and preserved to trace his trust worthiness by later generations. 08. And all of these thousands of eyewitness accounts agree to the Truth, Honesty, Sincerity, Generosity, Grace and every trait which is likable in a Great Human personality. 08A. The book which prophet produced (while being unable to read or write) has been an outstanding miracle of Arabic language and no one has been able to produce any thing like it in past 1400 years. This is agreed by every Arabic speaking person, be a Muslim or Non Muslim. D. What Evidences the Critics have? 09. On the other hand you have these people who criticize him; they have no evidence or information about him, except scraping bits and pieces from the records of Muslims. 10. And with their bad and evil intentions, they turn and twist every statement and every event in the life of prophet and paint it in the blackest colors. E. Critics are not Unanimous in their Analysis: 11. Then none of these critics are unanimous on any point, every expert comes out with his own fool proof diagnosis. All these diagnosis are varying and contradictory with each other. 12. None of these experts have any evidence of their own, their source is nothing but Islamic books, whom they dissect and pick one bit from here and one bit from there, and then construct a picture of Devil and want everyone to believe that it is the True picture of Our prophet.

F. Why did you prefer one side over other? 13. Dont you think God might ask you, why you rejected the Eyewitness Reports and accepted these concocted reports, if you were Objective and Unbiased (as you claim) and used all your brain and reasoning power to come to the conclusion that Our prophet is not the True Prophet that he claimed to be? 14. Which court or system in the world, would overlook eyewitness accounts and decide on the basis of hearsay? 15. This is the Question which you will have to explain before God, your Creator, who KNOWS and shall show you, the real bias and real motives which you used to reject the authentic reports about our prophet and instead accepted the concocted theories of his critics. G. Evidences from Other People: 16. God might also ask you, did you not see so many Non Muslims, after studying Quran and life history of our prophet, accepted islam. Why the evidence was sufficient to convince them and not you? The evidence was same, why different results? 17. God might also ask you, did you not see the assessment from hundreds and thousands of reputed scholars, thinkers, philosophers, scientists, doctors etc. who analyzed and evaluated life of our prophet and gave very positive report about him. 17A. Why did you reject all that and believed in the words of foul mouthed people like this Haji Kaji, Yaudheya, ITRE, RUSHDI and the gang. H. You will condemn yourself: 18. God will pile one evidence upon another, unless false layers of your pretended personality shall be removed and you will appear in your real personality. 19. And then you will confess I never knew the matter was so serious, and I just took it very casually and I thought these gang members are my real friends, or it was fashionable in my time to just criticise Islam and Prophet of Islam.

I. Dual Standards: 20. God might ask you Did you use the Same Rigid Standards to accept beliefs of your religious personalities, your parents, and your society? 21. Did you not took as truth these unauthentic half cooked stories about Ram, Krishna, and Hindu gods (If you be Hindu) as true, without checking and cross checking them and verifying if they were true. 22. Doing Idol worship (if you be Hindu) just by seeing your countrymen doing it, without checking and verifying yourself if there was any truth and logic in it. 23. Believing in all these stories about Jesus written by people whom no one even knows and fantastic interpretations by likes of St. Paul and his gang members?(If you be a Christians). 24. Believing in all those fantastic claims by so called Scientists that there is no God and there is No Creator of this Universe, without evaluating and analyzing their most ridiculous claims (If you be an Atheist and Modern Scientist? J. Real You: 25. The Real You shall be laid bare before God and every one who would care to watch your Discussion with God. 26. It would be proven beyond doubt that you were not honest in your analysis and rejection of Quran as a Book Sent by God or rejecting the prophet hood of Last and Final Prophet of God. 27. It was Satan the Great Deceiver who mislead you into this false sense of security and pride that you are the most reasonable and logical person present on this earth. 28. You will not be the only person with such fate, you might find and recognize many of your gang members there, but they would pretend that they never saw you and / or met you, in case you try to put some of the blame of them. 29. Remember this Quranic Verse: Should He not know,- He that Created? And He is Subtle and the Aware(67:14) May Allah Help you in finding the True Path and save you from Whispering of the Evil One.

Follow Up Question # 1 : Not Quiter wrote: <quoted text> You are bringing up a lot of points here. And so, being as I'm slow to convince, and so far the end is not here, I hope we can talk about some of them peacefully and cogently. One at a time. thank you. MUQ: Answer: Yes I brought many points, because I had to puncture your balloon in which you said "If I am given opportunity on the last day to speak to God, I would say that I rejected Prophet Mohammad as a prophet, because according to me he does not deserve to be called a prophet" (I rephrased your words to get the clear meaning). This was a very innocent looking and at the same time very serious charge that enough evidence does not exist in the world and people are really at a loss to find out the truth about truthfulness, sincerity and genuinity of our prophet. While is reality, there is no other personality in world history, about whom we know with so much detail as that of our prophet. The problem is with the people and how they treat this information. There are people who jump to every negative report from any one they seen in press and media and accept it without any investigation. While they reject every positive report about the Prophet which shows true nature of his prophethood, irrespective of how authentic, reliable and correct it might be. The problem is therefore in the minds of people and not in the evidences. They might fool the people of this world, saying that "I could not be convinced of the prophet hood of Prophet Mohammad based on the evidence available to me". But they will not be able to hide themselves before God, their Creator, who knows the Secrets of our hears and with whom nothing is hidden. He will lay bare and remove all these veils of deception on the last day and show us the REAL Motives, why we rejected all positive evidences and accepted only negative evidences. take your time, I want you ro study each and every point of my posts and discuss with open mind. This is not a discussion between you and me alone, Our God is also a witness to what we say and write.

PS: I think after this post, I will not comment on that about Bible and its stories, because it will divert our attention and we should not have discussions on two different subjects with the same person on the same thread at the same time. Follow up Question # 2: Not Quiter wrote: <quoted text> Nope. Can't you read? I will repeat it, for your sake. I said that I DID NOT THINK THAT MOHAMMED WAS A-- T R U E PROPHET. Nothing about whether he DESERVED to be a prophet. I repeat. I said, and I quote from above, "I will tell him...that I did not think that Mohammed was a TRUE PROPHET." Nothing to do with whether he deserved to be a prophet. Ans. MUQ: Just having trouble with your conscience, are you? Now you are splitting hairs? You first said that "If God will allow me to speak before sending me to hell fire"? Why would Just and Merciful God will send any one to Hell Fire without first proving to him be guilty? That was your first wrong assumption. Then you said that you will say to God "according to me Prophet Mohammad was not a true prophet?" What great lie I said when Is aid that according to you Prophet Mohammad did not deserve to be a True Prophet? They are same things said in different words. Even if we go by your words, why do you think Prophet Mohammad was not a True Prophet? What are the tests for a true prophet of God and how our prophet failed to meet those? I think this is the best opportunity for you to get your doubts cleared. Because you have now involved God and you are sure that you can prove to God that our Prophet was not a True Prophet. So let us see, what evidences you have that "prove beyond reasonable doubt" that our prophet was not a True Prophet of God? Please put one point at a time, so we can discuss it in detail and weigh both side of evidences. Do not worry if it takes time, we have plenty of it and it is spent in a good cause, a very important cause and one on which our whole future fives depend.

Chapter-2 What are Qualities of a True Prophet of God?

Chapter-2 What are Qualities of a True Prophet of God:

Start of Discussion [QUOTE who="NQ"] Please put one point at a time, so we can discuss it in detail and weigh both side of evidences. Do not worry if it takes time, we have plenty of it and it is spent in a good cause, a very important cause and one on which our whole future fives depend. Let us start at the beginning, and thank you for asking. What is a prophet? Would you agree that a prophet is one through whom God's will and purpose are made known? First let's start with that question. You may answer yes or no, or you may give me reasons why Mohammed discusses God's will, and let's make sure it is God's will, is that ok? We will take as much time as possible.:-) [/QUOTE] Ans. MUQ I think we will reach no where in the way we are discussing this issue. There are a lot of subjective opinions expressed in your post and I do not want to respond to them, because it would only confuse the issue. So let us start over again, and I will go ahead with your definition, that a Prophet is one, thru whom Gods will and purpose are known. This is not a complete definition of a Prophet of God, but let us take this as a working definition. My question is how do we know what are the qualities of a True Prophet of God and if you any candidate for that post. Follow Up Question # 1: [QUOTE who="NQ"] No, no, I'm not chickening out.:-) It is rather long and complicated, so it will take time and effort. HOWEVER, I'm willing to put some effort into the endeavor. We did discuss that a prophet would make known God's will and purpose. ... So Adam was a prophet in the sense that he communicated God's will to Eve.

P.S. Whereas I am enjoying our discussions at this point, I don't have all the time I would like to talk about these things, since I have responsibilities other than this. Thus, I am asking you to be patient. [/QUOTE] Ans. MUQ I think you are going too fast, that is why you think you need so much time. There is no need at present to give examples as to who is a prophet or who is not. So all your write up on Adam and Eve was not needed at this stage. We only want to list out what are the qualities of a True Prophet of God. So far you have listed only one that he should make known the Gods Will and Purpose to people What are the other qualities that a True prophet of God should have? Do not get overworked, I only need a single or two line answer. We would list out all these properties and THEN search out suitable candidates that fit these criterions. PS: 01. And what Hard work you did than copy and paste a long portion from the book of Genesis!! You call that hard work? 02. I am somewhat aware of your activity and your busy schedule on other threads. 03. Seeing the importance of our discussions, I would have expected you to devote less time there and more time here. Follow Up Question # 2 [QUOTE who="NQ"] 01. It took me time to find the applicable scriptures of the first prophet, Adam. Look -- if you're going to insult me .. 02 Well, since you believe that Mohammed is a true prophet, and life literally depends upon accepting him as a true prophet of God, there is much to discuss about this. . [/QUOTE] Ans. MUQ

01. I am not insulting you at all, You seem to have lost the direction and going in all directions. 02. If you remember our present discussion started with you saying I will say to God on the last day that according to me Prophet Mohammad is not a true prophet of God 03. In order to make such a big claim, you must know what the qualities of a True prophet of God are and How we can distinguish between a True Prophet of God and a false prophet of God. 04. That is why I asked you to list what are the qualities of a True prophet of God. Once we know that, then we will look for possible candidates, who fill that role. 05. But you give only quality of Prophet so far, that they are link between Human and God. Is that all? 06. You say you believe in Biblical definition of a Prophet of God, please give us that Biblical definition, so we can use that to distinguish between a True prophet of God and a false prophet. 07. That is why I say it is mere waste of time for you to keep on talking about Adam and Eve. That time will come, when we shall establish that Adam was a true prophet of God. 08. So do not jump the discussion and do it is logical step by step manner. First we list out all the qualities of a True Prophet of God, then we look for the proofs and then establish that such and such is a True Prophet of God and we should accept his teachings. Go slow and deal this serious and important subject with patience and without too much emotion, that is my advice. So many people vanish from the thread when I ask them to go slow and in step by step manner. Do not be like one of them.

Follow Up Question # 3: [QUOTE who="NQ"] 01. MUQ, I see you answered me. Thank you. I gave you the primary rule for determining who is a prophet. Do you agree with that? He must relay the will of God to others. Beyond that, I can only give what the Bible says in order to determine who is a true prophet of God. 02. Now please tell me what is the guide you use to determine what a true prophet is. [/QUOTE] Ans. MUQ I thank you for civil post. Now look back to your post in which you said I will say to God, if I am allowed to speak, before he sends me to hell fire, that according to me Prophet Mohammad is not a True Prophet of God And here you are saying that you do not even know, what a true prophet of God is and what are tests before we determine to verify if some one is a true prophet of God or not. And you even do not know, According to Bible what qualities of a true prophet of God are? You only mentioned one that he is a link between human and God and he lets people know what Gods will is. This is fine, but how can one distinguish between a true prophet of God and a false prophet of God. I can certainly help you on that, but promise me that you will hold your peace and we will discuss one quality at a time. You can raise your objections when I give it, but once we have finished our discussion, we will note it and move further. If you go slowly and in step by step way, you will find out what are qualities of a True Prophet of God are, and how we can distinguish between a True Prophet of God and who is not. And then you will realize how stupid and immature was your assertion before God that according to me Prophet Mohammad is not a True Prophet.. If you are sincere and truthful in your quest, you will be successful in your quest.

Chapter -3 First Quality: all Prophets are Human:, they are not god or angels Second Quality: Prophets are always from Male side of Humans.

Chapter -3 First Quality: Prophets are Human:

MUQ: This is the First Quality of a True prophet of God. He shall be a human and nothing but a human. He shall not be an angel; he shall not be God or God in human shape. To guide humans, God only sends humans as prophets. So every prophet has to pass this test. If we find that some people have raised the status of their prophets to God or God in human form or Son of God etc, it is the exaggeration from their side and should not be taken in literal sense. It could be permissible only in its allegorical sense, as indicating some one who is very close to God. A1: Prophets behave like Ordinary human being during their day to day lives: Since a prophet is a human, he feels hunger, thirst, can become sick, has sexual desires. He gets married and has children. He can have one wife or more wives as permitted by God. He might do some work to earn his livelihood and can also do trading or tend flock etc. These acts do not lower his status as a prophet of God and do not have any affect on his prophet hood. It is not for us to grade prophets of God based on their worldly status and position. Mr. NQ: Do we agree with it, so we should move further? Second Quality: Prophets are always from Male side of Humans. God has only chosen and send Males as His prophets. It is not because of any insult or down grading women folk, but only because of the roles which God has chosen for men and women. The job of men is outside their homes and job of women is inside their homes, that is why only males were made Prophets of God. So there is nothing which we can call as a Female Prophet of God. Mr. NQ: Do we agree with it, so we should move further? PS: 01. What I said above does not negate that women can not get religious education or cannot achieve status of Religious Scholars.

02. Many women have indeed risen to the level of highest religious scholars, and men have come to them and learned about religious matters. 03. These comments are for the position of Prophethood, which is inherently an outward job and since it is duty of prophet to go out and preach to people, women are exempted from this burden which is against their feminine nature. 04. So please do not take it in negative sense, and start male versus female debate. We are only listing qualities of a Prophet and there are no cases of any Women being made a prophet. Follow Up Question # 1 [QUOTE who="NQ"] MUQ, I see several problems with the above, the first of which I will linger on. That is that a prophet must be male. I do not agree. You have given reasons why you feel that must be so (as you say the female is to stay inside the home, etc., while the male can work outside, and so forth), .. 2. MUQ, I did not say what you ascribed to me above, that is, "Correction: How is it that Islam knows so much about Angels seeing Muhammad was the only one to have encountered one ?" That was Neville Thompson, not me. I have other questions, not that one. I will go on to ask my main question right now in the following post. 3. MUQ, my last question before you answer me is: on what basis do you say that there is no female prophet? Who told you that or did you make it up? If you did not make it up, please tell me who told you there are no female prophets. Thank you. [/QUOTE] Ans. MUQ Even though we are not mentioning any names, we are not carrying out this discussion in thin air. What I mentioned about God always sending men as prophet is based on conclusive evidences from the religious history of world religions. You on the other hand are just speaking from rhetorics as to Why women cannot be sent as Prophets?. It is not for me to answer this question to your liking. I gave my reason as best as I could that roles of women is inside their houses and prophethood is basically an Outward Job i.e. going out and preaching to the people.

You should hold peace and when we discuss other qualities of prophet, it would become clear as to why God only sends male as His Prophets and Messengers. So either we make a note of your objections and move to next quality or we can waste our time in endless discussions. What would you prefer?

Follow Up Question # 2 (Please notice the "boredom" from NQ) [QUOTE who="NotQuiter"]<quoted text> You make statements, but do not want to be asked questions about them. Henceforth, I will not comment on any quality you list until the list is finished.[/QUOTE] Ans. MUQ No, this is not the way to have dialog or discussion. You may question and put your comments, but if you start arguing every word of what I write and always trying to be defensive as if I am laying a trap for you is not correct. What I am writing are pretty general things and they will fit most prophets of God, you think I am leading to a particular person, while in reality I am defending many more persons than you think. So stop this mulish attitude and join it with open mind and have no pre-bias. I am not biased in any way, because I believe in many more prophets that you even know of. While you people on the other hand are hell bent to stop only one man from qualifying!! The intentions are very visible from yours and others comments. So unless we have unbiased discussions, the basic purpose will not be served. Do you know why I am doing all this? This is only to answer your "Basic question" that On the Last day I will say to God, if I am allowed to speak, before He sends me to hell fire, that according to me, Prophet Mohammad was not a true prophet of God" Certainly God might ask you, what were the qualities of a Prophet of God and did you check out if he was fulfilling them or not? You do not have a list and only have vague idea about who are the prophets; here I am giving you these qualities in simple, easy to understand way, but you keep on raising objection at every word I write. Stop this negative attitude and try to absorb what I post, so at least on the last day you can say to God Yes I was given the info, but somehow I was not convinced and I still felt the same way about Prophet Mohammad, That would be a more honest answer than your first one, where you did not even tried to find out what the qualities of a True Prophet of God are!! So shall we proceed?

Follow up Question # 3, (From an outside) [QUOTE who="Neville Thompson"]<quoted text> Why can't women be seen as prophets ? God see's us as equals, mankind divides[/QUOTE] Ans. MUQ A. Men and Women: Equals or Complementary? That is where you make your mistake. God did not make man and woman as "equals".... What was the need to make them as males and females, if God wanted to make them equals? Why did not God make a Unisex Model so that there would never be any conflict between the two? The answer is God made them complimentary of each other!! Their bodies, there physical and psychological built up, their likes and dislikes, they are complementary to each other, and not in direct conflict. If a man tries to emulate a female, no one likes it, the same way if an woman like to emulate a man, no one likes it either. If they adhere to their respective roles, they act as naturals. B. Basic Unit of Human Civilization: Man and women together make the basic unit "Family" which is the building block of human civilization. The moment you break the family and treat men and woman as equals, each trying to outdo the other....you are going against nature. This is the most important point which our philosophers of modern times have either missed or ignored knowingly. They did not do it to really free women, but to exploit her body and beauty and put double burden on her. If she concentrate on outside job, she cannot do the same inside the house and vice versa, That is why, we see family system breaking up in every country where there is so called women freedom and single parents families are on the rise. These single parents families cause problem in the upbringing of children and their psychology.

C. Is there no equality between sexes at all? There are still some things in which men and women are equal before God, like lives of both are equally sacred, and both get the same reward for their faiths and good deeds.. But their roles in society and family are different and compliment each other. Men are responsible to earn living and women to take care of house and children. If both do their part, there will be peace and harmony in the family and society. D. Is there real equality in Western Society? Despite all the big claims they make, we find that still the Western society does not treat men and women as equals: 1. In most sporting events men and women compete separately, why men and women do not do these sports and run the races jointly. If they are Equals. 2. Why there are no boxing matches and wresting matches between men and women? 3. How come men cover most of their bodies while women try to display as much of their own, if they are equals? E. Why no women prophets were sent: If we see in the context of men and women being complimentary to each other and not competitors, there is perfect logic why God chose only males to be as His prophets. Because inherently prophethood is an outward job and involves meeting people, debating with them and calling them to true path. These jobs are more suited to men than women. But there are no less rewards for women, if they follow their prophets. God does not rewards for any act of piety or charity if done by female or done by male. God has made life simpler for women, but because of ill advisors, they are taking more burdens on them and are suffering themselves and causing problem to entire civilization. Allah knows Best.

Chapter-4 Third quality: Prophets are Chosen and Handpicked by God: Fourth Quality: Prophets are no Strangers to their people:

Chapter-4 Third quality: Prophets are Chosen and Handpicked by God:

MUQ: Prophethood is not a position which a man can attain by his own efforts. It is not a position which a man can obtain by getting higher and higher religious education or by his piety or by doing more righteous deeds etc. It is God who Picks and Chooses His Prophets and Messengers, and this selection is done right from the time they are born. A prophet might not even know that he is chosen by God. He knows only when he is given notice of his mission. But it is always by Selection and never by Election by people or Saints or by his own efforts. In religious terms prophethood is considered as WAHBI (i.e. Conferred by God or Thru Gods Blessings) and not KASBI (something which one can attain or reach by his own effort). And God Knows who is the Best Suitable Candidate for that coveted post amongst all humans existing at that time. Persons, who raise objections as to why God chose this person as a prophet and not that person, are in reality claiming that they know more than God!! And that their perceived choice is in fact better than Gods Choice!! Mr. NQ: Do we agree with it, so we should move further? Request to continue the Dialog To: NQ Let me make another effort to reconcile and let me try to look things from your point of view: No doubt, if you have no direct info from the original sources, you will tend to believe in whatever reports you get from other sources. If you have heard that such and such person, was very cruel, killed all his opponents, robbed the trade caravans, made innocent people captives and drove people from their houses, .etc. etc. you mind will be clouded and it will be very difficult to accept him as your guide and teacher and prophet.

A. Indirect info colludes the mind: But there is a very important point which you have overlooked, it is not your unbiased judgment, but judgment based on the info which some one else has supplied. There is another source of info, the original and more reliable one, which provides a totally different picture of what was the true character of the person we are talking about. B. You should look at the other side of story also: In such cases, one has to hold his or her judgment unless they have viewed both side of evidences, it is very unfair to base ones judgment, on one sided evidence. For example If a judge passed judgment on any criminal hearing only prosecution evidence and do not give the defense lawyer to put his argument, he will not be a fair judge. It so happens many times that once when one had heard both side of evidences, his or her attitude changes totally. There are many cases like that in our observation. MUQ. Fourth Quality: Prophets are no Strangers to their people: To: Mr. NQ Qualities of a True Prophet of God: So we go ahead with My list of qualities of True Prophets of God: We have already discussed the first three, I like to repeat these: A. First Quality: All prophets were humans and not God, God in human form, Gods son etc And as humans they showed all human traits. Having these human traits had no effect on their Prophet hood. B. Second Quality: All prophets were sent from male side of humanity. C. Third Quality: Prophets are Chosen by God and it is a position which is not filled thru Election or by any ones own efforts. God knows and selects His prophets and Messengers and we only have to accept Gods Choice. Now I come with the fourth quality, to have our discussion on line again:

D: Fourth Quality: Prophets are no Strangers to their people:

It is a way of God that prophets are generally raised from the community of their followers. They do not just appear from outside as strangers in city and declare their missions. They belong to the same community and speak and preach in the same language as what their people speak, their message is clear and needs no translators for their people. D1. Prophets lead Blameless Lives even before they declare their missions: Even though prophets might not know that they are prophets, they lead a blameless life and have strong moral and Upright Characters. Their blameless lives and upright characters act as strong counter arguments to the accusations of their detractors. When a prophet has spent say, thirty or forty years of blameless life amongst their people, and no one has observed them lying, cheating, stealing and doing any immoral things, how illogical it would be to say that all of a sudden they became liars, cheats, and made false claims for position of prophethood? These benefits would not be achieved if a Prophet descents as a stranger in town and declares his mission. Allah Knows best. Mr. NQ: Do we agree with it, so we should move further?

Chapter-5 Fifth Quality: Prophets are Role Models for their Followers: Sixth Quality: Prophets are Specifically Protected by God from having Moral Defects in their personality:

Chapter-5 Fifth Quality: Prophets are Role Models for their Followers:
God sends prophets to not only deliver His message to people, but also present themselves as Role Models to act on received guidance. The followers only have to look at their prophets and try their level best to follow in their footsteps. Prophets are the Perfect Models and every one of their followers should try to imitate them as much as they can. In status Prophets are the Highest Level to which any human can get. Of all human beings, prophets are closest to God in Blessings and Stature and Position. No follower can rise to the level of prophets or can even think of getting there or higher than them. It is not for humans to speculate on Stature of their or other prophets and / or try to give them ranks. This is prerogative of God and God only. One simile could be that prophets are blazing torches or shining lamps placed on the highest rocks and human folks getting light and warmth and directions thru these lamps and torches. E1. Prophethood is a full time Job! A prophet is on a full time mission from God. He spends very little time for his personal and family jobs and most of his time is spent in propagating the teachings which he received from God. His job is not a Postmans who just delivers the message and then is free of his responsibilities. From the time he declares his mission and till he dies, or killed / Martyred in the cause of Mission, he is always a Prophet of God. We have not yet come to know a single case in which a prophet was stripped off or dethroned from the title of Prophethood. God is far above from making wrong choices about whom He picks and selects to be His Prophets and Messengers. Prophets coming into the world is not an every day event. It is one of these rarest of the rare events, if one considers human history of past 2000 years and counts the total numbers of humans born in this period in the whole world and the total number of prophets sent into world, the ratio could be one prophet for more than 100 Billion people or more!!

Follow Up Question # 1 [QUOTE who="NQ"] 1. Well, MUQ, since you are doing the list "your way," and I appreciate your patience as well, I am going to do the list soon "my way." .. 2. You go by the Koran (I suppose?) as far as describing qualities of a prophet. I say this because you evidently feel you cannot make a mistake when describing this, and seem to be basing your views on what you have observed regarding your religion. .. 3. It was a very convenient marriage. Such marriages do happen, you know. She was supposed to be quite a good looking woman. And was highly respected in the business community, so was Mohammed. ... [/QUOTE] Ans. MUQ 1. I thank you for going ahead with this discussion, if you remember, I gave you every chance to begin with your list, and I started my list, only after you did not post your own. 2. Well, so far I have not used any verse from Quran directly, so I would be very appreciative if you do the same with Bible. And I think it would be very helpful, if you do not mention any names either. Because this discussion is not about any particular person, but the qualities which most of the prophets should fulfill. If you mention names after each quality, then you have to find the same proof for all prophets, so the discussion would get very complicated. This is only my advice, you are free to present your list any way you like. 3. Prophets marriage with Lady Khadija: Every one is entitled to his views and I cannot force my views on you. But before you make allegation, you should have proofs, just your assumptions and your thinking are not enough. It is not difficult to find Gold hunters in men as well as in women, but every marriage of a rich widow is by rule not for the Gold hunting. There is every evidence, which shows the honest and upright character of our prophet and ideal marriage he had with Lady Khadija. Consider the following: a. The marriage proposal came from the Lady and not from the prophet.

b. There was no system of Courtship in Makkah of those days, she must have heard of his reputation thru common friends of the family. c. In fact she engaged his as her agent in one of the business trip and put one of her trusted servant to watch the character of prophet during that trip. Only when she was convinced of his honesty, truth and upright moral character, she proposed the marriage. d. Prophet was in the prime of his youth (25 years) while she was 40 and twice married and widowed and had children from her previous marriage. Wealth and beauty is one criterion, but these things also matter. e. They had an ideal marriage, prophet had six or seven children from her and no one heard of any disputes between them. Prophet also dealt kindly with her children from previous marriage (not so easy a quality to be found in gold diggers) as well as his own children. f. And she was the first to believe in his prophethood, when he told her of what had happened in that cave. A wife of 15 years knows inside out of her husband and one who is after her money and looks and who sincerely loved her. g. And she suffered all the hardships with him during 10 years of prophetic mission in Makkah. h. And prophet always loved and respected her after her death. And remembered her with kind words even before his new wives j. If you still of the view that it was love of money which prompted this marriage, you are entitled to your view. But I want to ask to what is your proof? Your hunches cannot take the place of proofs? k. The problem is really the mental block you have against him, that you will either reject or find an excuse for any positive report that you shall hear about him. That could be one reason that I did not mention any name in my list, so we can understand what is a Prophet and how great is that institution and the careless way in which we speak about prophets as if they are our servants and office boys and not God Chosen People on this earth.

Sixth Quality: Prophets are Specifically Protected by God from having Moral Defects in their personality:
(It is known as ASMAT in Arabic and only Prophets have this Quality and No One Else) Since Prophets are specifically chosen by God from the time of their births, and designated to be Role Models for their people, they are free from any moral defects in their personality. God protects them from falling into these things. By Moral defects I mean traits like theft, cheating, lying, take innocent lives, rape, kidnapping, sexual immorality, breaking trusts and covenants, and all such acts and traits that are looked down in any civilized society. These are traits which disqualify any one from holding any public office; no human knowing these defects in any person would elect them for any important post. How could God choose such a person to be His handpicked choice for being a Role Model? It is very illogical F1. Can Prophets make Mistakes, fall into error? But Prophets are humans after all; they are not free from making mistakes or doing any thing wrong. They can forget, can make error of judgment, or choose a lesser option where many are available. Making mistakes or falling into error due to these is totally different from doing acts that show moral defects in their personality. These mistakes or errors do not lower their status in the eyes of God or have any affect on their prophet hood. F2: Do Mistakes / Errors of Prophet go unnoticed by God? Prophets are the Ultimate Role Models, and even their slightest mistakes could set a bad precedent for their followers, so God immediately corrects their mistakes and orders them to repent and rectify their mistakes / judgment of errors. This is how prophets of God meet dual roles of being humans as well as being Role Model for their followers.

Follow Up Question # 1 [QUOTE who="NotQuiter"]<quoted text> Yes, exactly. Now let's go back to the definition (not qualities) of prophet. Do you know the difference between definition and qualities? For instance, let's say someone asks: What is the sun? You could describe it, but before the description must FIRST come a distinct DEFINITION. thanks...[/QUOTE] ANS. MUQ Thank you for your post, I think you know that a thing is known by its name and its qualities. You cannot separate the two, if you want positive identification. Now taking your example that Sun is a star made of gasses that emits light? If we stop at that and ask Is every star that is made up of gasses and emits light is Sun? What would you say? That is why we have to know both the name and qualities so that we can identify a person and separate him from crowd of persons. A prophet is basically a Human with the qualities which I mentioned (and more of it are forthcoming). That is why I am going at these qualities slowly, so you can understand and analyze each of them and ask any clarifications about them. I am hopeful that by the time I am done with this list, you will not have any doubt as to identify and pinpoint a prophet from the list of thousands of Great Human Personalities given to us from the history of every nation of the world. I know I am taxing your patience, and it might be the first of this type of discussion in which you were ever involved, but if you go along it and participate with open and unbiased mind, it would be very helpful. I know of my limitations and my poor communication skills, but I am not misleading you and not speaking anything which is (to my knowledge and conviction) not true and based on falsehood. It might look strange to you, because you might have never heard them spoken in so slow and step by step way. I thank you once again and ask help from God to be able to do my job with best of my abilities. Amen.

Follow Up Question # 2: [QUOTE who="NotQuiter"]<quoted text> Let me ask you a question, and then perhaps we can continue tomorrow. when you say who are we to choose, what are you saying? Didn't Mohammed give people a choice? Allah or else...But Allah == until Mohammed came along, didn't HE himself give people a choice?? No, I don't believe that God, the One that made the heavens and the earth, would burn people's skin off regularly and then replace it to burn it again forever and ever. Nope. I won't worship a God like that...You might. And both of us are still alive, are we not? Has anyone contacted you from the dead yet to tell you what happens?[/QUOTE] Ans. MUQ As I told you, do not mention any name till we are thru with the list of qualities of a True prophet. You are so much concerned with a particular name that you are not concentrating on the list. And I promise to you, I will not take that name unless I have analyzed ALL the names that you will propose. I hope that you will keep your patience and do not get involved in any name business, till we are finished with the qualities.

Chapter-6 Seventh Quality: Prophets do not seek any Worldly Reward for their services H. Eighth Quality: Prophets were sent to all nations of world: J. ninth Quality: Prophets do not Contradict or Reject each other:

Chapter-6 Seventh Quality: Prophets do not seek any Worldly Reward for their services
MUQ: Since Prophets are sent by God for specific missions and are His representatives on earth, they seek rewards only from God. They do not ask or demand any worldly demands from their followers for their services. This selflessness of Prophets is one quality which distinguishes them from False prophets, who want either worldly rewards or recognition or fame. The pre-eminent position which prophets receive from their followers is not because of their asking, it is because of their eminence in the knowledge of religious matters and that they are main source from which their followers get the guidance. G1. Do Prophets not receive Any Reward? The Honor and Recognition from their followers is totally different from the titles and wealth and pomp and show which worldly kings and Rulers and Dictators and Political Leaders and Reformers achieve in their lives. The Power and Might and Position of most of these worldly rulers declines quickly after their death. In most cases no one even remembers their names unless he goes into books of History. In case of Prophets, their Honor, Reverence, Recognition in world and in the eyes of their followers increases with time. This is the Worldly Rewards which they achieve in this world, but their Real Rewards shall be in the hereafter, when God will bestow upon them Honors, Blessings and Rewards beyond any measure!!

H. Eighth Quality: Prophets were sent to all nations of world:

Since every nation and every people need guidance from God to fulfill their mission of life and True Guidance can only come thru Revelation; that is why God sent Prophets and Messengers to every nation in all parts of world. These prophets came in all ages and spoke in the languages of their people and delivered the guidance of God and asked their followers to follow them and take them as their role models. H1. No one except God knows exact number of Prophets: No one except God knows the exact numbers of Prophets and Messengers. We know the names of only a handful of them, and most of them remain unknown to us. H2 A Prophet of God is deemed alive as long as his True Teachings remain intact: In case any one should deduce that Physical Presence of Prophet of God is essential in every age and time; let it suffice that a prophet is deemed alive as long as his teachings and sayings and actions are preserved and reach posterity in reliable form. This is way of God that He sends another prophet to revive the message of old Prophet, when it has been almost forgotten or so much changed and distorted thru passage of time; or circumstances have changed so much that people might fall into serious error unless it is revised or updated.

J. Ninth Quality: Prophets do not Contradict or Reject each other:

All prophets receive information from the same source, i.e. God, so their teachings do not contradict each other. A True prophet of God would not reject or say bad words about prophets which preceded him, because they form a sort of brotherhood in front of their God. Even when some parts of code of law of an earlier prophet is abrogated; it is done without any criticism of that prophet. Because both the original code and revised code come from the same God, the earlier law needed to be revised because of changed circumstances; there is no blame on earlier prophet. J1: Rejection of Any Prophet of God is Serious Crime in the eyes of God: Prophets are sent by God with express purpose to provide guidance, and they have Approval and Might of God at their back, any one willfully rejecting a True Prophet of God takes a very serious risk. The risk becomes more serious when the Prophet whose mission is active and in-force is rejected by any one. This is like a direct act of treason in the eyes of God. Because if some one rejects a Prophet of God, it means that he or she has rejected the One who sent that prophet. J2: Rejection of One Prophet is as if one has rejected all Prophets: All Prophets form a common brotherhood; rejection of one is treated as rejection of all. Those who think that they are being extra loyal to their prophet by spending all their efforts and energies in rejecting another Prophet of God, might get a rude shock in the hereafter, when they see both prophets sitting side by side on thrones of honor, and BOTH looking at him with angry faces!! So beware be these Die Hard supporters of their own Prophets; who do not give a damn how insulting and how abusive are they to other True Prophets of God. They are certainly not on the side of their own Prophets!! J3: Safe course if in doubt about any Prophet of God: If someone has not researched and satisfied himself or herself that so and so is a True Prophet of God or not, the safest course is to hold their tongue and do not start criticising them and start abusing them or making fun of them.

Their crime would be lessened if they hold their tongue and continue their research. They would indeed be in a very awkward situation, if they became enemies of any True Prophet of God, without completing their research, and die in the stage of enmity.

Chapter-7 Tenth Quality: Prophets Receive Revelation (Guidance) from God: Eleventh Quality: Some Prophets Bring Code of Law and Some are Sent Without Code of law: Twelfth Quality : Miracles

Chapter-7 Tenth Quality: Prophets Receive Revelation (Guidance) from God:

This is the most important quality of a prophet of God. They get revelation directly from God or thru the medium of Angels of God. And this is one of the major qualities which separate Prophets from Non Prophets. Those who are Not Prophets speak from their Acquired Knowledge, Personal Experience, Reasoning and Deductive powers. None of these are fool proof, so they could be right or wrong. But a Prophet speaks from the Direct Knowledge he gets from God, so he is certain of what he says and he is never doubtful or wavers in his sayings. Revelation from God is the Surest form of knowledge and far above any Human based Reason or Logic or Theory or Assumptions. Caution: Let there be no confusion or misunderstanding on this issue. By Revelation here I mean, guidance which is sent as guidance to general public. There are instances when certain Non Prophets have received messages from God, directly or thru angles, but these messages were informations or foretelling some future event, not a guidance for people K1. Books of God: Some prophets only teach verbally of the revelation they receive and some write down the message and / or they ask their followers to write it down. Sometimes the followers write down the verbal messages of their prophets after they have gone from the world. These collections of prophets sayings and what they ask to be written down etc are termed as Scriptures and Books of God. Truly a Book of God should not contain any thing else except what the prophets received thru Revelation, but this is a very strict test and there is hardly any book in the world which can pass this strict test, except Quran the Final revealed book. So we are lenient in this test, and do not object on other peoples scriptures unless there is direct contradiction between Quran and these religious scriptures. PS: I seek pardon from readers for mentioning name of Quran, but I had to provide some example otherwise people might think that no such book exists in the world. If some one takes exception, I can expunge this part from my post-MUQ

Eleventh Quality: Some Prophets Bring Code of Law and Some are Sent Without Code of law:
All prophets are not given the same mission or have the same role to play. Depending upon the requirement, some Prophets are sent with a Code of Law for their followers. They are called RASOOL in Arabic language. And many prophets are sent who do not bring a new code of law. They are sent either to revive the old law or just preach to the people, They are called NABI in Arabic. Usually a RASOOL is sent to a country where there was no Code of Law earlier, and he brings a new code of law for them. Then NABI s are sent and revive the old law and make slight adjustments to take care of varying situations. It is very rare (I can say NONE with my limited knowledge) where two Different Code of Laws were sent to the same nation. L1: Should we rate Prophets on this basis? It is immaterial to us, if a Prophet comes with a code of law or not, they are equally respectable and honorable in our eyes. It is for God to rate His prophets and messengers and not for us. And it is for Him to decide which Mission should be entrusted to whom.

Twelfth Quality : Miracles: Some prophets might show Miracles as proofs of their bonafides:
Since prophets come to different nations and their mission is for every one, they are given some signs from God to perform, to convince these common people of their bonafides and that they are really prophets from God. These signs are something which people of their age cannot do, they are called miracles and they are really special acts of God performed on the hands of a prophet. They are free from any trickstery, sleigh of hand, magic or trying to fool people. These acts are real and those who see them are convinced of their truth. Because no Soothsayer, Magician, or Trickster can match the high Morality Standard which Prophets of God have. M1. Miracles are not Essential Quality of a True Prophet: It is in the Wisdom of God as to give which miracle to which prophet and it depends upon the situation. There were many prophets who did not show any miracle, because there was no need for it. Presence or absences of Miracles are no litmus test to find out genuinity of a prophet. M2: Only eyewitnesss report is justification that a Miracle took place: Since Miracles are special acts of God and they are performed at His command by the prophet, no one can demand that they be repeated whenever they want. And if people of another age are not able to perform these acts, they have no right to laugh at these miracles, because by definition, miracles are the acts which are beyond the reach of common people. The only proof of a Miracle is it has been transmitted to us by Eyewitnesses. If we have reliable reports from honest eyewitnesses that a Miracle was performed by any prophet, we should accept it. Our investigations should be on the authenticity of witnesses and how the report reached to us and not on the act itself.

Follow Up Question # 1 NotQuiter wrote: MUQ, people have free choice. That means that we are free to choose who we believe and who we do not believe. A messenger of the true God will have to speak in the name of the true God. That means he will have to tell what God's will is. For instance, it is God's will that we do good to one another. That we do not steal. That by our conduct we honor God, among other things that are pleasing to God. If a prophet came to the Israelites, they would have to give a prophecy that comes true, and again, they would have to speak for God. Naturally, God himself makes the messenger's words come true. But people have the choice which prophet's words are speaking in behalf of God. Ans. MUQ Yes you are very right about the actions of the prophets and that their all acts are as commanded by God. Now regarding the people to have "free choice" as to whatever prophet they pick and choose, it is a little premature as of now. We will Inshallah (I.e. God Willing) will take it up, when we have seen your list of qualities and then talk about names. But what you said in the first part of your post, I agree with it. Thank you for your response

Chapter-8 Thirteenth Quality: Prophesy:

Chapter-8 Thirteenth Quality: Prophesy: Some Prophets foretell Future Events:

Prophets receive their information directly from the Most Reliable source of all, i.e. God Almighty, Who gives them some insight about some future events. Prophets tell them to their followers, these are called Prophesies. A prophesy from a Prophets lip is different from the Guess work and logical conclusions which wise and knowledgeable people or Magicians and Soothsayers and Astrologers say. A prophesy from True Prophet of God is always fulfilled, while most of the prophesies and predictions from these wise men and soothsayers and magicians go wrong. Prophesies in reality are word representations of a future event and they are never told with exact details. A few important hints and signs are given and when the event comes to pass, people relate it to prophesy made by the prophets. A prophesy made by a prophet could be fulfilled during his life time, within a short time or fulfilled after many centuries so to say. When a particular prophesy shall be fulfilled is derived from the wordings and hints given, there could be differences and scholars might disagree on their exact fulfillment. N1: Making Prophesy is not an essential condition of a Prophet: It is not a must that every prophet must make Prophesies. There could be prophets who have not made any prophesy. It has no status on their status or position of Prophethood. N2. Sometime a prophet might make prophesy about advent of another prophet: It could happen that some prophets, from the knowledge they receive from God, might make prediction about some other prophet that is to come into the world. Usually such predictions are about some Major Prophets that would change the course of human history. The exact details about time and detailed qualities are however not mentioned, but sufficient hints are given, using which people with knowledge can identify the prophet when he appears into the world. All major prophets have told their followers about the Last and Final prophet of God that would come into the world. PS: Please remember that my last sentence is speculative and it is better if we just list it and discuss it in detail, when we discuss names of the prophets. If someone objects, I can expunge this last sentence.

Follow Up Question #1 (From a By stander) [QUOTE who="NT"] 01. Hello MUQ,I have foresaw events in the past but I don't think of myself as a prophet more like one of many who have been appointed with a message to pass on and there could be many more thousands of people like me receiving thoughts just like me. 02. This spread of whatever messages over vast amounts of people could mean that somebody may have whatever it takes for whatever to eventuate going on that persons means to do so. But sometimes I wonder over mankind that they don't want to listen for they think they have all the answers. [/QUOTE] Ans. MUQ Thank you for your query. 01. Yes there are many people who based on past events can guess or make predictions about some future events, but there is difference between that and what a prophet says. You will find that most of time, your predictions are proven wrong, but in the case of prophets this is not so. They speak from the certain knowledge that they get from God and that s why their prophesies and predictions prove 100 % right. 02. You are right that people do not want to listen even when they have all the answers. But our job is not to force anyone, but tell them the truth and leave them the choice, so they cannot have the excuse that no one told them about the truth.

Follow Up Question # 2: [QUOTE who="Not Quiter"]<quoted text> MUQ, with all due respect, I cannot talk about the prophets without mentioning names, times, and places, because without the account of them from the Bible, I would not know what a true prophet is.[/QUOTE] Ans. MUQ: You have your choice and I do not want to force you in any way. I think my approach is the best, because the moment we start speaking about names, we get biased and start rejecting each other's choice. In this way, we are only talking about the qualities and no names and personalities, so we stay focused only on the qualities. Once we are done with this, then we look at the names and see who has most of the qualities and who has not. But I cannot force any one, and I gave you the choice first. If you think I have missed some qualities, you can add them in the end. But to take a negative attitude and say I will take no part in it, till I have names , seems unfair to me and would only be a loss to you, because you are missing a discussion which I have not seen on any of the threads so far. And it started because of your own comments.

Chapter-9 Fourteenth Quality: Teachings of a Prophet

Chapter-9 Fourteenth Quality: Teachings of a Prophet

MUQ: a. Teachings related to Faith and Beliefs Despite different Codes of Laws for their people, speaking Different Languages, having differences in Color, Caste and Creed and Geographical Locations and Times, all prophets of God, have following as essential parts of beliefs in their teachings: 1. Worship Only One God: Worship only One True Lord of Universe and shun worship of false gods, idols and associating any one in the worship of True God of Universe. One should only fear God and no one else in the world 2. Follow me: Follow my teachings and try to emulate me as best as you can. 3. Prepare for the Hereafter: Perform Good Deeds and shun Evil Deeds, so you can be successful and pass the test of your life, accounts of which shall be taken on the Last Day or the Judgment Day. These are essential and unchanging part of teachings of every True Prophet of God. And these are the things thru which we can distinguish a True prophet of God from a False prophet claiming to be from God. If we find any so called prophet compromising on these basic teachings, he can be any thing else except a True Prophet of God.

Related to Rituals:
Even though they might differ in shapes and looks and details and frequency and how they are performed, followings are always included in the rituals, which prophet ask their followers to perform: 1. Regular Prayers: They are performed to thank God for His Blessings and to ask for His Favours and Sing His praises. 2. Regular Charity: Every prophet asks his followers to spend some portion of their provisions to the cause of God and in helping deprived sections of the society. 3. Fasting in one form or another: This is also a part of religious rituals. By refraining from food or drinks the followers try to overcome their animal instincts and increase their spiritual powers. 4. Pilgrimage to a fixed location: This is also a ritual which Prophets teach to their followers. Sometime animal sacrifices are also part of this pilgrimage and some time they might be not. Presence of these rituals in any religious society, speak of their common heritage and their common source. O3. Litmus Test that any Claimant is A True Prophet of God: What is mentioned about Basic Article of Faiths and Basic Item of Rituals are in fact the Litmus test to find if any claimant to the Prophethood is a True Prophet or a false prophet. Because True Prophets of God come from God and false Prophets are agents of Satan, and Satan would do anything and every thing but to ask people to follow these basic teachings. Using another allegorical language, these items are Fruits of a Prophet. As some Well Known Prophet of God (not taking names as per policy-MUQ) is supposed to have said You will recognize them by their fruits. Do you ever pick grapes from thorn bushes or figs from thistles? A Good tree always produces good fruit, a rotten tree produces bad fruit. By their fruits you shall recognize them

Follow Up Question # 1 [QUOTE who="NQ"] 1. I really was looking forward to a discussion. But remember -- you were the one to set the stipulation of no names.(Can you imagine, if we cannot agree on such a 'simple' subject as to how will we do this, how can world leaders get together and make profound decisions for the nations? 2. I don't believe I said that all the acts of the prophets are as commanded by God. Simply because prophets, like all of us, are imperfect. They related God's intentions, and purposes to those around them. But with the exception of Jesus, all prophets made mistakes in their lives. 3. Understanding you feel the need to defend your prophet, I will say that I appreciate your desire to help me, although I have reached somewhat of a conclusion based on the fact that I do not believe that a God of love, namely the Most High and True God, would invent, place, or situate, or design a literal lake of fire or whatever the Islamic depiction of eternal torture in hell of conscious souls or bodies is. ..[/QUOTE] Ans. MUQ I told you in the beginning that if you want to discuss any subject, you should do it with open mind and without bias. And now I am seeing that you are complaining again and again that I bound you by conducting it my way!! And what is this so called My Way? It is that first we list all the qualities of Prophets of God, without mentioning any names and THEN we look which prophet of God meets with those qualities. What is horribly wrong with this that you are tight lipped and you are watching from the side lines. If we go with YOUR way and with each quality we discuss names of 100 odd persons, if they qualify with it or not, it would be very easy. I am not acting like a judge here, but I want to refer it to the serious members on this thread that which one is better and simpler and easy to follow.

And then you opened your cards by mentioning that statement about Jesus, which was uncalled for and against our policy. And then you opened your deck by saying that You do not believe in any God who punishes people after their death (And I will prove to you that Jesus also said that God will punish people in hell fire for ever and ever, so you will turn away from God of Jesus also?) Any way this is a free thread and there is no compulsion of any kind. In a day or two I will be finished with my list and then I will give you chance to put up your list with whatever names you want to put. I will not say anything with the names, I will only comment on the Quality itself, whether I agree with it or not. But I have this to say, that you are behaving as if I have knife to your throat and asking you to believe in something which you hate to believe. It is a very strange behaviour from side so far.

Chapter-10 Fifteenth Quality: How Were Prophets Treated by People?

Chapter-10 Fifteenth Quality: How people Treated their Prophets?

Even though prophets of God were men of highest moral character, asked no worldly reward from people and had no personal interests, and their only concern was that the people should walk in the True Path of God, they did not met with Universal approval from their country men. If we go thru the religious history of different nations, throughout ages, we find that during their life times, almost every prophet was greeted with ridicule, taunts, abuses and had to bear threat of violence or death against their persons. It would have been a very lucky prophet of God, who met with universal approval right from the time, he declared his mission. Different prophets met with different approval ratings during their worldly life and afterwards. Some prophets died with very small numbers of people believing in them during their life times. Some of them got recognition after they were gone from the world and some were lost to memory after their death. There are very few cases where prophets were successful during their lives and after their death. P2. Can we rate Prophets of God based on their Worldly Successes? But whether a prophet was rejected by his fellow country men or accepted, in the eyes of God, he was always a success. Because he was sent with the message to deliver to the people and spend his full energy in propagating that guidance. If he did his job with full dedication, he is entitled to get full rewards. The acceptance or rejection is the act of his followers and they will have to answer for that before the God. That is why, we should respect all prophets of God and do not try to rate them based on what success they received on earth. Allah Knows best.

Seventeenth Quality: Fighting in the Cause of God:

I know this is a very controversial subject and many people will chaff as to why I included violence and killing and fighting when we are discussing Qualities of True Prophets of God. As I said earlier, prophets are no Dreamers or Philosophers or Thinkers whose aim is only to formulate Theories and Formulas for development and well being of people of the land. These Thinkers and Philosophers are not concerned as to how their theories could be implemented and who will implement them and what will be the consequences. Prophets on the other hand, are men of action and they live and work amongst real humans and real people. Their mission is to create a human society that is based on the guidance which they receive from God. Q1. Why Prophets take to arms? Every prophet starts his mission by preaching to their followers. In an ideal world it is expected that every Logical and Reasonable man in the society would hasten to receive the message and receive Blessings of God. But our world is not an ideal world and the ground situation is different from what we expect. That is why, Wealthy and Powerful and those with Vested Interests try to oppose Prophets and use every trick in their arsenal to defeat the mission of Prophets of God. Depending upon the situation and their mission from God and the number of their dedicated followers, Prophets do take arm and go and fight in the cause of God with those oppose them and those who try to destroy them and their mission. Q2. How fights of Prophets are different from other Earthly Warriors? Fights and struggle of Prophets are totally different from the Fights and Wars which we see Worldly Kings and Warlords perform. In the fights of Prophets, their aim is not to win any land or acquire wealth or gain economic advantage for their people. Their struggle is only for God and it ends the moment the opponents stop their resistance, the prophets can be categorized as Most Peaceful Warriors known to human history.

Follow Up Question # 1 (From a Bystander) [QUOTE who="NT"] I would like to disagree with you if that is alright; Your description of the above is not a fair assessment because it is others that no not to understand these people. [/QUOTE] Ans. MUQ I am sorry if my description of Poets, Philosophers, and Thinkers hurt you. I did not want to criticize them as such, I was just comparing them to the Prophets of God. These people are not men of action, they think and they write, but they do not try to act on it and propagate amongst people. While the roles of prophets are totally different. Their aim is to guide people and change their attitude and lead them to true path. You are right when you say that people do not understand these people, because they do not speak to "people"!! Follow Up Question # 2 [QUOTE who="NT"] Hello MUQ, could you see a difference between a religious prophet and a civil ones? One that receives information that gives direction for advancement of mankind in innovation and the other prophets like Muhammad who prophesied affairs of religion? 2. I met an Indian fellow in Singapore who read my thoughts and then provided me with numbers for lotto on the proviso I make a donation to his children's orphanages that run in Vietnam and India. The money I offered him was not enough for him and he noticed that I had plastic cards in my wallet and instructed me that I should withdraw a sizable amount of money out to give to him. [/QUOTE] Ans. MUQ 1. This is a very interesting Question you asked and I must thank you for it. There is nothing like a Civil Prophet and a Religious Prophet like that. As I explained prophets could have different missions allotted to them from God.

Some might come only to preach to people and try to warn them of the inequities they are doing..usually such prophets are sent to nations who already have a religious Code of Law implemented by an earlier prophet of God. So their mission is to revive the earlier message Then there could be some whose role is to modify the earlier Code of Law, because the old circumstances have changed and the Code of Law needs to be revised. These prophets involve themselves into Civil Matters and in some cases even become Head of the community. But as such there is no division between Civil and Religious matters in the eyes of God. Allah Knows best. 2. Scientists and Innovators and Pioneers that help Mankind: Yes there were scientists and engineers and physicians and innovators who have done their best to help mankind and they are revered by millions of people. These people are also benefactors of mankind.. but they are not prophets of God. But how they get the brainwave that lead them to the discovery? Ask any such people and he will say that This idea just came to my mind all of a sudden!! This could also be an inspiration from God, who sends them to these people at appropriate times. No one can analyze as to why this idea came only to this person at such a time. I think that the initial impetus is send by God to these people in the form of that Brainwave. But they are not Prophets of God. Their sphere is only our Physical World, while Prophets of God deal basically with the Spiritual matters, their involvement in physical world is only where it is required to get success in the hereafter. Allah Knows best I hope I was able to clarify this complicated issue. 03. That was an interesting Episode you had with that Indian regarding Lotto. You were lucky that you did not loose anything. Such type of people are very common in India. But if I were you, I would leave this Lotto business totally. Why to give MY money to some stranger whom I do not know 999,999 times in a Million times?

Chapter-11 Seventieth Quality: The age of Prophethood has come to an end Eighteenth Quality: Duties of a Prophet Nineteenth Quality: What We Owe to the Prophets?

Chapter-11 Seventieth Quality: The age of Prophethood has come to an end:

This is again a controversial subject and I do not demand that every one must accept it. The reality is that age of prophethood has come to an end and no significant prophet has risen in the world for past 1400 years. There have only been localized movements where some one claimed prophet hood, but it was never a Universal phenomenon and no major religion has come into the world since that date. Many people might not agree with me and I do not find fault with them when I say that closing the door of Prophethood was indeed an act of Mercy by the Most Merciful and Most Gracious God, because it saved human society forever from deciding on every New prophet!! As mentioned earlier, A prophet lives as long as his message and his teachings are alive, and it so happened that Life and Teachings and Message of the Last Prophet in the chain was preserved intact and in Great Details for succeeding generation. Every one can close the time gap and listen to the message which was given 1400 years back in the same language and verbatim without any change. So in reality The Last Prophet is living and talking before them and there is no excuse for them to say to God that they did not get the message. In other words we can say that Last and Final Prophet of God is still alive and living with us, because of the detailed and minute information which we have about him than any other personality in this world. It is only for people to ask and seek and they will get the info. So no one shall have excuse before God that sufficient info was not available to them.

Eighteenth Quality: Duties of a Prophet:

General duties of a True Prophet of God are: a. Deliver The Divine Message: To deliver the message they receive from God and to explain it and answer any honest queries about it. (Not to engage in Every Debate and answer Every Question with those who raise queries and objections for the sake of fun, ridicule and idle discussions). b. Demonstrate Application of Divine Law thru Personal Example: By their personal conduct demonstrate how Divine Law is implemented in human society. c. Build Up Faith of Sincere Followers: To Purify and Sanctify those who accept their message and became their followers and helpers in propagating this message. Prophets teach and guide these sincere followers and they in turn become guides to those who are not present. Prophets and their message live thru the lives and actions of their followers. And it is by the action of their followers and those who come after them that prophets Names, Lives and Teachings obtain immorality. The prophets whom no one knows is only because their followers and those coming after them did not preserve their memory. d. Interpret Divine Law: To act as Law Giver to the society in the capacity of God Official Interpreters of Divine Law. They are authorized to make by laws and laws that are based on the guidance they receive from God thru Revelation. e. Form a Society or Nation of Believers: To build a human society that is run on the principles and guidance they receive from God. To defend the society from outside attacks and those who try to subvert it. f. Nurture a Pius Society: To oversee that Goodness and Piety increases in the society and Evilness and Evil acts are either removed or brought to their lowest level.

g. Judge between Disputes according to Divine Law: To act as judge between the disputes and give judgment based on Divine law and see that it is enforced on land. S1. Does every Prophet do all these? These are general duties of Prophets of God, each and every prophet need not have to do all these duties, it depends on the mission they get from God and how many trusted followers they got during their mission. S2. Should we rate prophets on the basis of their duties and successes? And as explained earlier, we do not rate prophets on the basis of what worldly success they got. Every prophet is successful in the eyes of God, because he did his job. The real gainer and losers are the people who received the guidance from prophets. If they accepted it, they are successful in the hereafter, if they rejected it, they are real losers. Follow Up Question # 1 Not Quiter wrote: Here is a question about the prophets you are speaking of. Did Mohammed name all the prophets in the Koran? ANS. MUQ No in Quran Allah did not mention the names of All the prophets of God. He only mentioned the names of 25 of them. And then He told that He send prophets and messengers to all nations of the world and then briefed about their common teachings. Hope this answers your query.

Follow Up Question # 2 NotQuiter wrote: But did the Quran give times, dates, circumstances surrounding any of these prophets? Ans. MUQ I think you have not even glanced over Quran!! Quran is not the book of History, Archeology etc.... It is book of Guidance for human kind. It keeps that in mind and talks about the issues that guide human kind. It uses and chooses each and every word very carefully and does not waste any of them. There are no long lists of genealogies, names and names and more names which we find in other books, no one can remember or recall them. Why, it told the whole story of Joseph while mentioning only two Proper names, Joseph and Jacob!! Can you beat it!! It would be best that you grab your copy of Quran and go thru it at least once. We are in the middle of very important discussion and it is best if we know source of knowledge of each other.

Nineteenth Quality: What We Owe to the Prophets?

It is not in fact any Quality of Prophet, but concluding part of my list. (MUQ) Considering the fact that Prophets of God are our Real and Greatest Benefactors and they are source of each and every Goodness and Kindness and Morality and Righteousness which we see on this earth, there are duties on each one of us to these prophets. I list some of them based on my limited knowledge: a. Love Them: We should love the Prophets of God and this love should be from the deepest depth of our hearts. It should not be only for show and only from lips. In fact the love of Prophets should mean more to us than even our own lives. b. Respect and Revere them: We should respect and revere them and honor them. That is why we Muslims use the words Peace be upon him (PBUH) or Peace be upon them (PBUT) when we take the name of any prophet or group of prophets. This show of honor should also be from our hearts and not only from lips or hypocrisy. c. Accept their Teachings: We should accept the Guidance and Message brought by the prophets, and should not say or do any thing which goes against this guidance and message. d. Follow their teachings: We should try our best to cultivate all the positive qualities that these prophets want us to have and shun all the negative qualities and acts which the prophets prohibit. And these should not be only on the surface but from deep commitment. It is really a test to see how committed we are to the prophets. e. Do not rate Man-Made theories above Theirs: We should no not put any teachings or any philosophy or any theory that contradicts or goes against the teachings of prophets and his message. Because no human theory, logic or philosophy can take the place of Divine Guidance.

f. Defend their teachings: We should be ready to defend the teachings of prophets from attacks to the best of our abilities. The attacks could be from inside and / or from outside. The attack could be verbal or physical. Followers of prophets should be ready for both type of attacks and should be ready for any sacrifice that is needed for it. Our energies and our resources and our lives, every thing should be devoted to this struggle. This will be a litmus test as to how sincere followers we are of prophets or do we come under the title of Those with little faith or O Hypocrites. g. Be United and Steadfast in our struggle against falsehood: We should present a united front to our enemies and do not be divided and fight within ourselves. These internal fights damage us more than outside attacks of our enemies and bring dishonor and insults on us, in this world as well as in the hereafter. These are some of the duties which we owe to our prophets, let every one of us look at it and place his or her position in this chart. Allah Knows Best

To: NQ and others following this discussion: Now I recap what I have posted under this head on the Qualities of a True prophet of God: Note: Qualities which are Common for all Prophets = (C) Qualities which are Specific to some Prophets= (D) 01. First Quality: Prophets are humans. (C) a. They are not angels, not God, not God in human form and are not Gods Son etc. b. As humans they are subject to all human traits and human weakness, which does not lower their status. 02. Second Quality: Prophets are always sent from Male section of Humanity. 03. Third Quality: Prophets always Chosen by God: (C) a. It is a position which no one can get by his own efforts. b. It is a position not decided by Election, Voting or Selection by any Human. c. God knows whom to pick as His prophet and no one has any right to complain 04. Fourth Quality: Prophets are not strangers to their people: (C) a. Prophets are generally raised from the same people to whom they are sent b. They speak language of their people and do not need any interpreters or Translators. c. Prophets lead blameless and upright lives even before they declared their mission.

05. Fifth Quality: Prophets are role Models for their Followers: (C) a. Prophets are the Ultimate Role Models for their followers. b. Prophets are closest to God in Honor, Respect and Status and no Non Prophet can reach to the status of any prophet. c. Prophets are on full time missions from God. 06. Sixth Quality: Prophets are Saved from all Moral Defects / Deficiencies (called ASMAT in Arabic): (C) a. Prophets are protected to have any Moral Defect in their personality.. They lead an Upright, High Moral life in their communities. b. As humans they can make mistake of judgment, forget some thing etc. And God immediately correct their mistakes so that followers do not fall into error. 07. Seventh Quality: Prophets do not Seek any Worldly Reward for their services. (C) a. They seek their reward only from their God. b. The eminence and respect they get from their followers is because of their knowledge and gratitude of their followers; not that they seek it. 08. Eighth Quality: Prophets were sent to All nations of the world (C) a. They were sent to all nations of the world and they came in all ages and they spoke in different languages. b. Only God knows their exact numbers. c. A prophet is deemed alive as long as his teachings are protected and transmitted to following generations.

09. Ninth Quality: Prophets do not reject or Contradict each other: (C) a. Prophets form a sort of Universal Brotherhood. They do not reject or condemn each other. b. Rejection of a Prophet is serious in the eyes of God. c. Rejection of one prophet is as if one has rejected all prophets. d. When in doubt, one should hold his tongue and pen in speaking or writing about a prophet of God 10. Tenth Quality: Prophets Receive Guidance thru Revelation from God: (C) a. This is quality which distinguishes a Prophet from Non Prophet. b. Revelation is Surest and Most Authentic source of knowledge and is far above any Human theory or logic. c. Books of God are collection of Revelation received by a prophet 11. Eleventh Quality: Code of Law: (D) a. Some prophets bring Code of Law for their people, they are called RASOOL in Arabic. b. Most Prophets only revive the old law or make minor changes in existing law or just preach and warn their followers. They are called NABI in Arabic. 12. Twelfth Quality: Miracles (D) a. Some prophets perform miracles to confirm their bonafides to their people. b. Miracles are Acts of God performed at the hands of prophets. It is not their own. c. It is not a necessary test for prophethood. There were many prophets who showed no miracles.

13. Thirteenth Quality: Prophesies (D) a. Some prophets, from the knowledge they receive from God, make certain predictions about future events, these are called prophesies. b. It is not essential that all prophesies be fulfilled during the life time of prophet. c. These prophesies are never made in clear words and there is always scope for interpretations. Only learned people can verify if and when it was fulfilled. 14. Fourteenth Quality: Teachings of prophet (also called Fruits of a Prophet): (related to fundamental article of faith) (C) a. These are the things which are real test of a true prophet of God. Irrespective of age, time, location, language or nation, a prophet teaches about: i. Unity of God and to worship Him and no one else. ii) Follow the Prophet as role model. iii) Perform Good deeds and shun evil deeds so as to pass the test of life in the hereafter. 15. Fifteenth Quality: Teachings of prophet (also called Fruits of a Prophet): (related to Rituals) (C) a. These are the things which are real test of a true prophet of God. Irrespective of age, time, location, language or nation, a prophet asks his followers to perform: i) Regular Prayers. ii) Spent from their wealth and earning for cause of God. iii) Do some sort of fasting to control their desires. iv) Travel to some fixed place or location, called pilgrimage. b. The forms and looks may differ, but in essence these are amongst the rituals which are present in every prophets teachings.

16. Sixteenth Quality: Treatment at the hands of their people: (C) a. It sounds strange, but hardly any prophet got Universal approval from their people when they declared their mission. b. They were always met with Rejection, Taunts, Ridicule and Resistance from their people. c. Some prophets overcame all that and were ultimately accepted by most of their followers. While many died while most people did not believe in them. d. Prophets are always successful because they did their job. It is the followers who are winners or losers. 17. Seventeenth Quality: Fighting in the Cause of God: (D) a. Depending upon the circumstance and mission allotted to them, some prophets take arm and fight in the cause of their missions. b. But their fight is only in the Cause of God and not to gain territory or wealth or exploit other people. c. Prophets were the Most peaceful warriors on the face of earth. 18. Eighteenth Quality: Age of prophethood has come to an end. a. After the Last and Final prophet came into world in Arabia approx. 1400 years ago, the age of prophethood has officially ended. b. The Final prophet came for All Nations of the world and his mission is till the End of World. c. And indeed this was an act of Mercy of God, which saved humanity from checking and verifying claims of every new prophet. d. After the last prophet, any one who claims prophethood is a false prophet and a liar.

19. Nineteenth Quality: Duties of a Prophet: (D) General duties of a True Prophet of God are: a. Deliver The Divine Message: b. Demonstrate Application of Divine Law thru Personal Conduct: c. Built Up Faith of Followers: d. Be Official Interpreter of Divine Law: e. Form a Society or Nation of Believers: f. Nurture a Pius Society: g. Judge according to Divine Law: Not all prophets did all of these, it depended on their mission and number of followers they gained. 20. Twentieth Quality: (C) What we owe to the Prophets? a. Love Them: b. Respect and Revere them: c. Accept and follow their Teachings: e. Do not rate any man made theories above theirs: f. Defend their teachings: g. Be United and Steadfast in struggle against falsehood: h. Respect all Prophets of God and do not try to rate them, based on their Nationality, Language, Time (i.e. those who came early and who followed them), and Success they obtained in the world. This rating is the Prerogative of God and God only. Allah Knows Best

To: NQ Qualities of a True Prophet of God: Now I am thru with my list and I give you the chance to present your list of the Qualities of Prophets of God. As I told you, at this stage, I will not consider any names, because we are only discussing the qualities of a True prophet of God. But you can mention names, as it is your presentation. But I will only comment on the Quality and not name, and I might ask you, if this Quality is applicable to ALL prophets, or it is for some prophets. I thank you for your patience, and now let us hear from you: PS: I have to go to India for ten days to attend a marriage in family. I hope you will not mind, if there be any delay from my side on commenting on your post for next 10 days. I will try to post as many as I can, given my busy schedule. Please mention one quality in your post, so we can analyze and comment on it. Wishing you Best of Luck!!

Chapter-12 The "Other List"

Chapter-12 The "Other List"

#1. [QUOTE who="Not Quiter"]<quoted text>I'll start again soon with my discussion of prophets as I am happy to do so. But when I do not feel comfortable in doing so, I will stop. I'm sure you understand that.[/QUOTE] ANS. MUQ So you want to have your cake and eat it also? Why you will start feeling uncomfortable? If you are speaking the truth, you should feel comfort and happily answer any relevant questions being posed to you in polite and civil tone? You may need more time to respond to queries, in case you do not have immediate answers. But to leave discussion and leave every thing in limbo is not what I feel is a fair idea. What I would request you is to do your home work and get some data and facts before you start posting. But I am the last man whose advice you will follow, because you want to do it your own way and justify your decision which you already took, even before we started to have this discussion!! #2. [QUOTE who="NQ"] For MUQ: To begin.:-) I will begin again, so as to get your comments. A prophet is one through whom divine will and purpose are made known. Here are two scriptures in reference to that point (that the divine will and purpose is made known through someone called a 'prophet.'(Luke 1:68+. Speaking of Zechariah, the father of John the Baptist, it says, "His father Zechariah was filled with the Holy Spirit and prophesied: Praise be to the Lord, the God of Israel, because he has come and has redeemed his people. He has raised up a horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David (as he said through his holy prophets of long ago), salvation from our enemies and from the hand of all who hate us to show mercy to our fathers and to remember his holy covenant, the oath he swore to our father Abraham: to rescue us from the hand of our enemies, and to enable us to serve him without fear in holiness and righteousness before him all our days.) [/QUOTE]

Ans. MUQ Thanks for your long post, if we remove the references to names and personalities, The First Quality of A prophet is that He is a medium thru which Divine Will is known This is what I agree with, and it is what I said myself, when in my list of Qualities, I mentioned that Prophets receive Revelation from God, and that revelation is to know the Divine Will. So we are saying the same thing in different words. You can post these lengthy references from Bible, but in my view they are not needed. They could be needed if I disagree with your quality. But it is your show and I will not stop you. So please give us the second Quality of a True Prophet of God. #3 [QUOTE who="DAKO"] You choose to respond to only one part of my post. Does it mean that you tacitly agree that all "prophets" made claims of divine messages when they may be making them up? Or else they would not endorse lies on the very basic matter of creation! Not talking to myself, MUQ! [/QUOTE] Ans. MUQ I gave you a list of 20 Qualities of a true prophet of God, some which are common to all Prophets and some which are specific to some prophets. When any one makes the claim to be a prophet of God, we must analyze his claim based on these essential qualities. And the Litmus test for any prophet is I their teachings and the Rewards they seek from their followers. Which false prophet of God would teach to worship, only one God and do not associate any one in His worship, offer prayers, fasting and Give Charity Apply these tests and you will separate grain from the chaff!!

#4 MUQ: Dear Friends, I am now back in Saudi Arabia. I checked this thread after three or four days, just to see if our NQ has posted ANYTHING about the qualities of the prophets. I found that he has posted NONE!! This was the guy who was after me as to why I am not giving him any chance to present his side of story. Now after 10 days or so, he has posted only ONE quality that "Prophets are medium between God and men and they tell to people Divine guidance"!! That is all!! I am sure that he had no intention to do this discussion and he never had any knowledge to carry out such a discussion. Such is the fate of people who claim that they have become "experts" on all religions, especially Islam and Muslims. #6. Not Quiter wrote: <quoted text> MUQ, welcome back. I was waiting for you to comment. Hope you had a good time in Saudi Arabia. You gave qualities as you see them of prophets. We did agree, didn't we, that all prophets were humans, and not angels, isn't that right? Ans. MUQ Thank you for your sentiments, yes I did mention that all prophets were humans, and we agreed on it. They were not God, God in Human form or Sons of God (in their literal sense).... So please go ahead and mention your third Quality of prophets of God.....please keep on mentioning one quality each day, so we can compile the list and then start our verification process as to short list True prophets of God from the false ones.

Chapter-13 (The Other List) Dithering Continues

Chapter-13 (The Other List) Dithering Continues

#1 [QUOTE who="NQ"] OK, I'll start again, only this time with Adam and continue discussing what a prophet is. You do it on your terms, I'll do it on mine. As both you and I say, this is going to take time.:-) God said: Let us make man in our image.(Genesis 1:26) Adam held a singular position in history, being the first human creature -- the "son of God.(Luke 3:38) Adam was the crowning glory of God's earthly creative works, not only because of the timing near the close of six creative epochs but, more importantly, because in Gods image he created him.(Genesis 1:27) [/QUOTE] Ans. MUQ Let us see how you do in your next inning. But I can say that you are starting on a wrong foot. You start by blowing up the personality of Adam , which you will blow to pieces in the end. What I can say is that It was not the Physical Image of God in which Adam was created. Because God has no physical image at all, so it was only the spiritual qualities given to man. Go ahead , in this post you did not give any quality of a Prophet.

#2 [QUOTE who="NQ"] Adam started out without sin, without a flaw or mistake. He was created as a perfect image of God. And as you say, not the physical image but the spiritual image. He was created higher than the animals, would you agree with that? Because when God made Adam, He was heard to have said in heaven, "Let us make man in our image." So man (Adam and Eve) were created in God's image, the animals were not created in God's image. [/QUOTE] Ans. MUQ Human was created higher than the animals, I have no doubt in accepting that. Adam was a special creation of God, I have no objection to that either. Objection I have is on Adam being created on the image of God. This is not physical image of God that Adam was made into, but he shared some of God's attributes (on a very inferior level) in that sense we can call Adam being made into God's image. The Quality of Mercy, Justice, Equity, Truth, Bravery, Open handedness etc. were inserted into Adam. Adam started life as a sinless person is also acceptable. That Adam was not perfect is also acceptable (that would account for his mistake later on) That God only is Perfect in every sense is also acceptable. So we are very much in agreement so far. Let us see what are the qualities of a True Prophet of God.

#3. [QUOTE who="NQ"] MUQ wrote: <quoted text> 01. Wow. I can hardly believe we're somewhat in agreement so far, MUQ! OK, I shall go on, agreement or not.:-) Adam was a prophet.(You see, unless I explain as I know it, 02. He was a prophet because he told Eve what God expected, and what His purpose was for them and the human race extended. Next post to follow. [/QUOTE] Ans. MUQ After reading your post and all that obiter Dicta, what filters as the Qualities of Prophet of God are: A. Prophets are Special people; they know God better than ordinary people. B. Prophets receive directions (we can also call it revelation) from God, which ordinary people do not receive. C. Prophets are medium thru which Gods will (directions, commands or teachings etc) is known to human kind. D. Anyone who is not a True Prophet is a false prophet and what these false prophets say or teach is not what Gods wants, so they should not be followed by people. I think you agree to this synopsis I have made of your long post. Adam being a prophet is not disputed by me. But I ask you to stand by your agreement when you discuss the fall of Adam!!

#4. [QUOTE who="NQ: So far I am not going to contest what you say. But what is the agreement we made about Adam's fall? Ans. MUQ: I mean to say that he was still a prophet after the so called fall. He was not stripped of the title. That is why I said you should follow a cautious approach when boosting his qualities!! "] #5 [QUOTE who="NQ"]<quoted text>Number two. How am I boosting his qualities? [/QUOTE] Ans. MUQ Just re read the words you wrote about him, making him as perfect as possible for anyone other than God. These qualities did not desert him when he ate from that tree. That is why I said you should be cautious in your approach. Because this is the general practice of Christians, they always go to extreme. There is no middle path for them.

#6. [QUOTE who="NQ"] Good morning, MUQ. You are absolutely right, there is no middle path for anyone in the sense of being "partially perfect" or "partially imperfect." or put another way, "partially a sinner," or "partially not a sinner." :-) Adam sinned once and for all time when he did what God told him not to do. Before he ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil he did not sin.(Which means going against God or God's principles, willfully or inadvertently.) That particular sin, according to the Bible, cost Adam his eternal life. So, there is no middle path. A person cannot be partially sinful, or partially not a sinner. Does that mean I cannot be forgiven for a sin that I may commit? Obviously not. I can be forgiven. [/QUOTE] Ans. MUQ Our discussion is not about sin and its effect. It is about Qualities of a true prophet. I appreciate what you wrote about Adams mistake and the hardline approach you are taking about it (because Pauls whole logic is based on that, he makes that as a center point of his entire philosophy). So we will not discuss that point, because it is not our point of discussion. But I want you to stick to your comment Once you sin, you loose eternal life for ever. I want to ask you a personal question, if you have children and ask them not to do some thing. If they did it and then came and said they are sorry and they will not do it again. Will you as a parent always hold them guilty and always have a grudge against them for disobeying you? If you are so merciful and gracious to pardon them and accept their apology why cant you see God as More Merciful and Forgiver of Sin than yourself? Think about it will cool mind and then respond. Meanwhile where is your second Quality of Prophets of God? We are now more than one week into discussion and you only gave one or two qualities.

#7. [QUOTE who="NQ"] My approach is not based on what Paul said. It is based on what Moses wrote. .. That is all right. The concept is there in the Torah, the Injeel. God told Adam that if he ate from the tree, he would die. He died. Adam was without sin until he ate from that tree. He and his offspring were no longer able to carry out God's original purpose for himself and Eve, which was to fill the earth and subdue it. They died; everybody they gave birth to died because of Adam's sin. His offspring were no longer born in a sinless, perfect state, since their inherited genes were now imperfect. Death is a very serious punishment, wouldn't you say? In fact, death by stoning, for instance, is a punishment, not a reward, isn't that true? [/QUOTE] Ans. MUQ You claim that your reasoning is from Moses and not from Paul is totally wrong. Torah did not say that all Adam children carried the sin of Adam. It is Paul who says that. And neither Adam nor Eve died when they ate the fruit.so Bibles statement is wrong. And if God wanted to make men and women sinless, He would have made them angels. The basic purpose of creating humans was to give them freedom to choose and then judge them based on the choice they make. That is how the situation is, humans make mistakes, they repent and ask for forgiveness and God forgives the sins if the repentance and supplication for forgiveness is sincere. Now you have introduced another prophet into the discussion. You are giving examples without listing any qualities of a true prophet. That is the problem with your approach. We have examples but no qualities. So how to differentiate between a true prophet and a false prophet?

#8. [QUOTE who="NQ"] I believe I told you at the beginning of our discussion that I cannot discuss qualities or anything else about prophets unless I go to individual prophets, and those I know from the Bible. Furthermore, . What does the word prophet mean? First I will give you a dictionary definition.(dictionary.com ) 1. a person who speaks for God or a deity, or by divine inspiration. 2.(in the Old Testament) a. a person chosen to speak for God and to guide the people of Israel: Moses was the greatest of Old Testament prophets. b.( often initial capital letter ) one of the Major or Minor Prophets. c. one of a band of ecstatic visionaries claiming divine inspiration and, according to popular belief, possessing magical powers. d. a person who practices divination. 3. one of a class of persons in the early church, next in order after the apostles, recognized as inspired to utter special revelations and predictions. 1 Cor. 12:28. 4. the Prophet, Muhammad, the founder of Islam. 5. a person regarded as, or claiming to be, an inspired teacher or leader. [/QUOTE] Ans. MUQ I think you forget why this discussion initiated. It initiated because you said that In the hereafter if God allowed me to speak, before sending me to hell, I will say that I did not believe that prophet Mohammad was a true prophet So obviously you had a clear idea what is a True Prophet of God and who is not, otherwise how you would have made such a clear statement. That is why I asked you, how you distinguish between a True Prophet and a False Prophet? Obviously that means that you would check them against the qualities which a true prophet of God should have. That is how this discussion started, and you asked me to list down the properties of a True Prophet of God. After few exchanges you stopped answering my posts and when I finished my list and asked you to go ahead with your list, you stopped discussing it. Now you want to go to the square one and restart once again. For me it is not a problem, because I have my answer saved in my computer and I can re-post it. I agree with you, that it is very nice if we have a friendship and understanding when we discuss any thing and that comes with tolerance and broadmindedness.

You cannot have a friendship, if every now and then you start insulting our prophet and use derogative language against him. It is very interesting that you have posted a dictionary definition of prophet, and that includes Prophet Mohammad!! That shows that he is so well known that a dictionary includes his name in his definition.!! According to me a True Prophet of God, is one who is appointed by God to be a Guide and Teacher for his people and he invites people to follow him and his teachings. Now if you want to develop this topic, you might ask, why prophets are needed at all? If you ask this question, that could be topic of my next post.

Chapter-14 (To start over again!!)

Chapter-14 (To start over again!!)

#1. [QUOTE who="NQ"] So much time has passed by that I more or less forgot the point of our discussion, so I'm sorry. Once I realized that you were setting the rules for comparison and were preventing me from explaining prophets and prophecy as I understand them, I realized I cannot play by your rules. Descriptions come from an object, not the object arriving from a description. As an example, I can see a picture of a tree and then describe what I believe are its qualities to the best of my describing ability. .. Now if you want to prove to me or show me that Mohammed was a true Prophet, go ahead. I'll try to follow your arguments or explanations as best I can. But please do not expect me to simply agree and acquiesce unless I feel I can or want to. Thank you. [/QUOTE] Ans. MUQ 01. The topic of discussion was How to differentiate between a True Prophet of God from a False Prophet. 02. Since you were more than Sure that our Prophet is a False Prophet, every one would think that definitely you would have checked him against a list of qualities that a True prophet must have and our prophet failed to qualify that list. What was then so abnormal for me asking you what were the qualities of a True Prophet of God and which our prophet failed to satisfy? 03. Now instead of giving us a list, you started by giving examples and with each example adding new qualities, this is no way a discussion of that type should be conducted. 04. You should do you home work first. If you want to quote different prophets and with each prophet you want to add new qualities, you should first make that entire list in your computer and then separate out the qualities and then provide me with the list.

05. That was the reasonable approach I wanted you to follow and about which you say that I was dictating you and forcing my rules on you. 06. I gave you my list, which I complied from Quran and I can show you, how many of Biblical Prophets meet that list. But you seem to work in non systematic manner (and I think it is because you are doing so many simultaneous discussions on the same thread with so many people, that is why you are not concentrated and focused). 07. If you are serious, this discussion can be finished in one or two weeks. But if we keep on moving in circles and you keep on complaining on every step, it would never be finished. After few posts we will be back to square one. PS: If you do not believe in God, Judgment day, hell and heavens, then why are we discussing this issue of True Prophet and False Prophet? Are you just killing your time on these threads on just having fun? #2. [QUOTE who="NQ"] MUQ - my "concept of God" is what He tells about himself in the pages of the Bible. That is where I draw my concept from. However, for starters I will provide the following concept that Moses wrote at Deuteronomy 32:3,4 "I will proclaim the name of the Lord. Oh, praise the greatness of our God! He is the Rock, his works are perfect, and all his ways are just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he." [/QUOTE] Ans. MUQ Thank you very much for your post. This is the most logical approach. To believe in what your scriptures say. And present it logically and in proper order. So according to Deut. 32:3,4 the God:

- Is the Greatest (what we Muslims call ALLAH AKBAR, Allah is the Greatest) - His works are Perfect (that is what we Muslims say about Allah , He commits no mistake or error). - His ways are Just (That is what we Muslims also say about Allah that He is always Just in His decrees and Laws and Commands). - He does no wrong (That is what we Muslims also say about Allah that He is free from doing any Mistakes or errors or forgetfulness or any other deficiency). - He does not do injustice to any one (That is what we Muslims also say about Allah, that He does not do injustice to any one, not even an atoms weight). So far we are 100 % in agreement between God you believe in and Allah which we believe in. Let us develop this subject further and let us hear more from you on the Biblical Concept of God. PS1: Which Muslim can say that the above verses from Bible do not qualify to be called as Word of God? Quran confirms and support every reasonable and logical things mentioned in Bible. I hope our mistrusts and our misconceptions be reduced when we exchange such type of posts. PS2: The discussion for Prophets should wait till we are finished with More Important Topic about Concept of God. When we get True Concept of God settled, the question of True and False prophet would also be settled to a very large extent!!

#3. [QUOTE who="NQ"] God is the Originator of life. How do you feel about that, do you agree with that statement? [/QUOTE] Ans. MUQ You are right; In Quran Allah is mentioned as Giver of Life. It is one of His attributes (YUHYEE WA YUMEET i.e. He Gives Life and He takes is back also causing death). And Allah is always living (AL HAII is one of His attributes) and He is the One who shall never die, and everyone else beside Him shall have taste of Death. (All these are confirmed by Quranic verses, I did not give reference to make the post short). So God and Allah have this attribute as common between them!! #4. [QUOTE who="NQ"] OK, hello, MUQ. Naturally you are checking everything I say to make sure it coincides with the Quran. and of course, .. Therefore, I will agree, based on your comments and what the Bible says, that the Almighty God shall never die. I leave the rest of that point regarding death for later, because it is a deep subject. We agree then that Almighty God, the Originator of Life and the Universe, cannot and will never die. Habakkuk 1:12, .. [/QUOTE]

Ans. I would like to make some opening statements before I comment on your post: A. Discussing with Jews and Christians: Quran gives us basic guidelines as to how to discuss with people of the Book, i.e. Jews and Christians: 1. Argue with them with Politeness: And dispute you not with the People of the Book (i.e. Jews and Christians) except in the Best Way, unless it be with those of them who do wrong, but say We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which come down to you; Our God and Your God is One (and the same) (29:46) 2. Find Common Grounds: Say O people of the book (i.e. Jews and Christians) let us come to common terms between you and us; that we worship none but God, and we associate no partners with Him and we do not take from ourselves Lords and partners (3:64) 3. Let us race in doing good deeds: If Allah so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan) is to test you in what he has given you; so strive as in a race in all virtues. The return of you all is to Allah: it is He that will show you (on the Last day) the truth of matters in which you disputed (5:49) 4. Part with good intentions, if arguments are not helping: To You Your way and to us our way (108:4) And : Say: Everyone acts according to his own dispositions: but your Lord knows best who it is that is best guided on the way (17:84)

5. Attributes of Allah: It is strange that our unlettered prophet, one who was unable to read and write, mentioned more than 99 attributes of Allah in Quran. Most of them have very deep rooted meaning, that one cannot translate into a single English word. And many of them cannot be fully translated into English whatever efforts one makes, listen to this from Abdullah Yousuf Ali, a very well known Muslim Translator of Quran: How can a translator reproduce the sublimity and the comprehensiveness of the magnificent Arabic Words, which means so much in a single symbol.. (on 59:23) Merciful (RAHMAN and RAHIM) Gracious (MAJEED, KAREEM) Long Suffering (HALEEM, SHAKOOR) Abundant in Goodness (RAHIM) Truth (HAQ) And there are many more Attributes of Allah mentioned in our Quran. I doubt that you will bring any Good Name or Quality of God, which will be missing from Quran. So once again we find that God of OT and Allah of Quran are pointing towards the same personality!!

Ninety Nine Names (attributes) of Allah: The Crowning name of God in Arabic is Allah. Other names and attributes are given below. Please note that English Translations are just for the sake of explanation. They do not equal the majesty and beauty and sublimity of original arabic words used. English words carry a broad sense of meaning and not exactly what arabic words convey. All these names are mentioned in Quran, many more could be found in the literature of Hadith, i.e. sayings of the prophet. And Allah could have many, many beautiful names in other languages of the world too. 01. Ar-Ra'man (AL RAHMAN): The Exceedingly Compassionate, The Exceedingly Beneficent, The Exceedingly Gracious 02. Ar-Ra'im (AL RAHIM) The Exceedingly Merciful 03. Al-Malik (AL MALIK): The King, THE SOVERIEGN 04. Al-Quddus (AL QUDDOOS) The Holy, The Pure, The Perfect 05. As-Salam (AL SALAAM): The Peace, The Source of Peace and Safety, The Savior 06. Al-Mu'min (AL MUMIN): The Guarantor, The Affirming 07. Al-Muhaymin (AL MUHAIMIN): The Guardian 08. Al-'Aziz (AL AZIZ):

The Almighty, The Invulnerable, The Honorable 09. Al-Jabbar (AL JABBAR): The Irresistible, The Compeller, The Lofty 10. Al-Mutakabbir (AL MUTAKABBIR): The Majestic, The Supreme 11. Al-Khaliq (AL KHALIQ): The Creator 12. Al-Bari' (AL BAARII): The Evolver, The Fashioner, The Designer 13. Al-Mu'awwir (AL MUSAVVIR) The Fashioner of Forms 14. Al-Gaffar (AL GHAFFAR): The Repeatedly Forgiving 15. Al-Qahhar (AL QAHHAR): The Subduer 16. Al-Wahhab (AL WAHHAB): The Bestower 17. Ar-Razzaq (AL RAZZAQ) The Provider 18. Al-Fatta' (AL FATTAH): The Opener, The Victory Giver 19. Al-'Alim (AL ALEEM): The All Knowing, The Omniscient 20. Al-Qabi' (AL QABIZ):

The Restrainer, The Straightener 21. Al-Basi' (AL BASIT): The Extender / Expander 22. Al-Khafi' (AL KHAFE): The Abaser 23. Ar-Rafi' (AL RAFE): The Exalter 24. Al-Mu'izz (AL MOIZZ): The Giver of Honour 25. Al-Mu'ill (AL MUDHILL): The Giver of Dishonour 26. As-Sami' (AL SAMEE): The All Hearing 27. Al-Ba'ir (AL BASEER): The All Seeing 28. Al-'akam (AL HAKAM): The Judge, The Arbitrator 29. Al-'Adl (AL AADIL): The Utterly Just 30. Al-La'if (AL LATEEF) The Gentle, The Subtly Kind 31. Al-'abir (AL KHABEER):

The All Aware 32. Al-'alim (AL HALEEM): The Forbearing, The Indulgent 33. Al-'A'im (AL HAKEEM): The Magnificent 34. Al-Gafur (AL GHAFOOR) The Much-Forgiving 35. A-akur (AL SHAKOOR): The Grateful 36. Al-'Ali (AL ALI): The Sublime 37.Al-Kabir (AL KABEER): The Great 38. Al-'afi' (AL KHAFI): The Preserver 39. Al-Muqit (AL MUQEET): The Nourisher 40. Al-'asib (AL HAASIB): The Bringer of Judgment 41. Al-Galil (AL JALEEL): The Majestic 42. Al-Karim (AL KAREEM): The Bountiful, The Generous

43. Ar-Raqib (AL RAQEEB): The Watchful 44. Al-Mugib (AL MUJEEB): The Responsive, The Answer 45. Al-Wasi' (AL WASE): The Vast, The All-Embracing, The Omnipresent, The Boundless 46. Al-'akim (AL HAKEEM): The Wise 47. Al-Wadud (AL WADOOD): The Loving 48. Al-Magid (AL MAAJID): All-Glorious, The Majestic 49. Al-Ba'i' (The Resurrecter 50. A-ahid (AL SHAHEED): The Witness 51. Al-'aqq (AL HAQQ): The Truth, The Reality 52. Al-Wakil (AL WAKEEL): The Trustee, The Dependable, The Advocate 53. Al-Qawwi (AL QAVI): The Strong 54. Al-Matin (AL MATEEN): The Firm, The Steadfast

55. Al-Wali (AL WAALI): The Friend, Patron and Helper 56. Al-'amid (AL HAMEED): The All Praiseworthy 57. Al-Mu''i (AL MUHSEE): The Accounter, The Numberer of All 58. Al-Mubdi' (AL MUBDEE): The Originator, The Producer, The Initiator 59. Al-Mu'id (AL MUEED): The Restorer, The Reinstater Who Brings Back All 60. Al-Mu'yi (AL MUHEE): The Giver of Life 61. Al-Mumit (AL MUMEET): The Destroyer, The Bringer of Death 62. Al-'ayy (AL HAYY): The Living 63. Al-Qayyum (AL QAYYOOM): The Subsisting, The Guardian 64. Al-Wagid (AL WAAJID): The Perceiver, The Finder, The Unfailing 65. Al-Magid (AL MAAJID): The Illustrious, The Magnificent 66. Al-Wa'id (AL WAAHID):

The One, The Unique 67. Al-'A'ad (AL AHAD): The Unity, The Indivisible 68. A'-'amad (AL SAMAD): The Eternal, The Absolute, The Self-Sufficient 69.Al-Qadir (AL QADIR): The Omnipotent, The All Able 70. Al-Muqtadir (AL MUQTADIR): The Determiner, The Dominant 71. Al-Muqaddim (AL MUQADDIM): The Expediter, He Who Brings Forward 72. Al-Mu'akhkhir (AL MUAKKHIR): The Delayer, He Who Puts Far Away 73. Al-'Awwal (AL AWWAL) The First, The Beginning-less 74. Al-'A'ir (AL AAKHIR): The Last, The Endless 75. A'-'ahir (AL ZAAHIR): The Manifest, The Evident, The Outer 76. Al-Ba'in (AL BAATIN): The Hidden, The Unmanifest, The Inner 77. Al-Wali (AL WAALI): The Patron, The Protecting Friend, The Friendly Lord

78. Al-Muta'ali (AL MUTAALI): The Supremely Exalted, The Most High 79. Al-Barr (AL BARR): The Good, The Beneficent 80. At-Tawwab (AL TAWWWAB): The Ever Returning, Ever Relenting 81. Al-Muntaqim (AL MUNTAQIM): The Avenger 82. Al-'Afu (AL AFOOU): The Pardoner, The Effacer, The Forgiver 83. Ar-Ra'uf (AL RAOOF): The Kind, The Pitying 84. Malik-ul-Mulk (MAALIK UL MULK): The Owner of all Sovereignty 85. Dhu-l-Galali wa-l-'ikram (DUL JALAAL WAL IKRAM) The Lord of Majesty and Generosity 86. Al-Muqsi' (AL MUQSIT): The Equitable, The Requiter 87. Al-Gami' (AL JAME): The Gatherer, The Unifier 88. Al-Gani (AL GHANI): The Rich, The Independent 89. Al-Mugni (AL MUGHNI):

The Enricher, The Emancipator 90. Al-Mani' (AL MAANE): The Withholder, The Shielder, The Defender 91. A'-'arr (AL DHAARR): The Distressor, The Harmer, The Afflictor 92. An-Nafi'(AL NAAFE): The Propitious, The Benefactor, The Source of Good 93. An-Nur (AL NOOR): The Light 94. Al-Hadi (AL HAADI): The Guide, The Way 95. Al-Badi' (AL BADEE): The Incomparable, The Unattainable 96. Al-Baqi (AL BAAQI): The Immutable, The Infinite, The Everlasting 97. Al-Wari' (AL WAARIS): The Heir, The Inheritor of All 98. Ar-Raid (AL RASHID): The Guide to the Right Path 99. A'-'abur (AL SABBOOR): The Timeless, The Patient

Dear NQ As our brother James has placed all our cards on table, so to say. He has given a complete list of 99 Names and Attributes of Allah and what they mean. I do not know that how many of those you will be able to reject as not worthy of God. If you think there is any thing more or any quality or attribute that is left and Bible can add upon it, please do so. If you agree, then we are in agreement that all these qualities are common between Allah and God and they seem to be pointing towards same Deity. If you think it is time that we should focus on the differences between God and Allah, this could be the time. What do you think?

Chapter-15 What is purpose of life?

Chapter-15, What is purpose of life

#1. MUQ To: NQ I have posted many messages to you, but you did not respond. You are again running away from discussion without any reason or any logic. You are extremely busy, I cannot believe because you are active on this thread and other threads. I think there is some kink in your personality that prevents you from carrying out slow step by step discussion on any subject or topic. This discussion about God attributes was going on smoothly, and we were ageing on every thing I do not understand why you suddenly stopped it. Did you see any trap there? Please continue this discussion, it would solve and open many of the knots and assumptions you have in your mind against Allah, Muslims, Islam, Quran and about Last and Final Prophet. Do not miss this opportunity to discuss about the truth. #2. [QUOTE who="NQ"] MUQ -- God's purpose for the earth. It is a wonderful one. God wants the earth to be filled with happy, healthy people. First we need to see what God's purpose was for the earth at the beginning, then we will discuss if that purpose will be realized. The Bible says that God created Adam and Eve, and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground." (Genesis 1:28) He planted a garden in Eden and made every wonderful tree for food and beauty available to them.(Genesis 2:8,9,15) So it was Gods purpose that humans have children, extend their garden home earth wide, and take care of the animals. Further examination shows that this will be fulfilled, we shall see scriptures applying to this point.

[/QUOTE] Ans. MUQ The Biblical concept that Gods purpose is Only to see humans multiply and fill the earth is very inferior. There is no shortage of life forms that are abundant on this earth and multiplying and filling the earth. Then the argument that God wants to see lots and lots of happy and content faces on the earth, is also not correct, because it is God who is creator of Diseases and it is on His order that earthquakes and tornadoes and hurricanes and floods come on earth. The reality is that humans have qualities which no other life forms (in our knowledge so far) possess. Humans have been given special qualities, and if you have special qualities, you have a higher purpose than just multiplying and enjoying life. So what are these special qualities which human possess and no other life form and what is the special purpose for which humans are created? These are the two questions, I want your answers on. If you want only one point at a time, please tell us what distinguishes humans from other life forms on this earth? #3. [QUOTE who="NQ"] God also told Adam to cultivate the earth, take care of it. Genesis 1:28 bears this out: "God blessed them and said to them, Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground. So there was more to the direction that God gave Adam than making more people. He was also to subdue the earth, and rule over the fish and birds and every other living creature that moves. MUQ wrote: <quoted text> Animals were made with outstanding traits but humans are different. Biblical references show that they have very wonderful qualities, such as a lion's roar and stalking of its prey, yet it takes care of its young. But God granted the first man and

woman dominion over the animals. This makes him superior to the animals in that sense, but this was a God-given right. Mankind has often misused that superior right to tend to the animals. But at the beginning, this was the God-given mandate from God to Adam. Genesis 1:28 " Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground. [/QUOTE] Ans. There is nothing new in your post, you have just repeated your old post. According to Biblical the aim of humans was "to multiply and be happy and rule over other life forms on this earth" These are OK but post a very "Lowly" picture of mankind. I asked you what makes humans different from other life forms on this planet. Obviously you do not get answer from the Bible. You asked me to provide answers from Quran. I will but first I want to know about what info you have that from Bible. If you have no further info from Bible on this subject, please say so and I will present what Quran has to say about it. I want it to be an interactive session and not one sided. #4. [QUOTE who="NQ"] Well, you disagree with my point that man is inherently superior in that God gave him dominion over the earth at the beginning. There's not much more I can say to that. So I would like to see your reasoning that it is inferior. But I did give you an answer from the Bible showing that God made mankind with the ability to rule over the earth. Yet you think that is inferior. However, as a side note, that ability has been twisted, so mankind's attempt to rule over itself is not something that God grants, and mankind in general is not treating each other and the earth very well since Adam's rebelling against God. [/QUOTE] Ans. I did not disagree with your view that humans are superior to animals.

I only asked what made them superior to animals. And I did not deny your argument that humans are to rule over every creature of this earth. I said that humans purpose of life on this earth is not like of any animal i.e. to eat, drink, multiply and be happy. Humans have a superior purpose of life than animals. Since you did not get any more info from Bible on that, so let me put forward, some of the inputs we get from Quran on that. I will start with the question, what makes humans different from all other life forms on this planet. Quran says it in very few words!! It is mentioned in Surah (i.e. Chapter) Al Rahman (i.e. Most Gracious) # 55 (God) Most Gracioustaught (human) speech (and intelligence) (Verse 4) This intelligent speech is the thing which separates human being from all other life forms on this planet. By using this intelligent speech, humans are able to pass on their knowledge from one generation to another. That is why we see many species who are living on this planet for millions of years before humans did not achieve anything in the form of civilization except to eat and multiply and fill this earth. Humans with less than 20 thousand years of known civilization have achieved much more than mere eat, drink, multiply, fill earth and show happy faces.

#5. MUQ: How man is different from other Creatures of this planet? Quran says it in very few words!! It is mentioned in Surah (i.e. Chapter) Al Rahman (i.e. Most Gracious) # 55 (God) Most Gracioustaught (human) speech (and intelligence) (Verse 4) This intelligent speech is the thing which separates human being from all other life forms on this planet. By using this intelligent speech, humans are able to pass on their knowledge from one generation to another. That is why we see many species who are living on this planet for millions of years before humans did not achieve anything in the form of civilization except to eat and multiply and fill this earth. Humans with less than 20 thousand years of known civilization have achieved much more than mere eat, drink, multiply, fill earth and show happy faces. #6. MUQ How man is different from other Creatures of this planet? There is another very important and fundamental verse in Quran that sheds light on how humans are different from other creatures on this planet. It is mentioned in Surah (Chapter0 Al ALAQ, # 96 which was the very first revelation that came to our prophet in the cave of HIRA. It says Proclaim and thy Lord is Most Bountiful, He who taught (the use of) the Pen.. (V 3-4). The use of Pen is the thing which separates humans from other life forms on this planet. Pen here refers to any means of record by which one human transfers his knowledge to others. If writings and records were not available, then progress of human civilization would not have grown so fast.

By the written records, one generation gets the combined knowledge of preceding generations and add its own achievements. This transfer of written knowledge from one generation to another is unique for humans and that is why they were able to make so rapid a progress is so short of a time.

Chapter-16 Does Human Life has any Higher Purpose?

Chapter-16 Does Human Life has any Higher Purpose?

#1. MUQ To: NQ I see that you are so busy with other people on this thread, that you forgot "little discussion" we were having. I waited for two days and when there was no response from you, I am posting my "Next Installment" of the topic we were discussing. I hope and Wish that we bring this discussion to proper closure and not leave it in the middle as our previous discussions. A. How man is different from other Creatures of this planet? Part-2 There is another very important and fundamental verse in Quran that sheds light on how humans are different from other creatures on this planet. It is mentioned in Surah (Chapter0 Al ALAQ, # 96 which was the very first revelation that came to our prophet in the cave of HIRA. It says Proclaim and thy Lord is Most Bountiful, He who taught (the use of) the Pen.. (V 3-4). The use of Pen is the thing which separates humans from other life forms on this planet. Pen here refers to any means of record by which one human transfers his knowledge to others. If writings and records were not available, then progress of human civilization would not have grown so fast. By the written records, one generation gets the combined knowledge of preceding generations and add its own achievements. This transfer of written knowledge from one generation to another is unique for humans and that is why they were able to make so rapid a progress is so short of a time.

#2. [QUOTE who="NQ"] Oh, ok. You may go on to your second point. I agree that the pen moves human civilization along, but I do believe that another reason man is superior to animals is because God made him superior in the sense of ruling over them. That is an inborn, innate quality man has. But also in the sense of conscience, different from the animals. Genesis 1:28 - "And the Lord God commanded the man, You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die. God did not give this command to the animals. It's a very big difference. But you may go on to your second point, if you'd like. [/QUOTE] Ans. MUQ I see the traces of Your old self in this discussion too. You know only a few Verses of Bible and keep on repeating them again and again. Do you not think that Quran has so many New Ideas on every such issue? How strange then it is to believe some people when they say Quran just copied it from Bible and at the most edited some info. The ideas which Quran gives are not to be found in Bible or any other world scripture. Our prophet, a man who did not know how to read or write, one who had no known teacher in the world, how could he pen down so many original ideas? But since that is not subject of our discussion, I would give you my next installment on what makes humans so different from other life forms in this world How man is different from other Creatures of this planet? Part-3 There is another very Important and Fundamental verse in Quran which shows how humans are different from all other life forms on this planet. This is verse in the Chapter 96 (Al ALAQ) and formed the part of the First Revelation that came to our prophet in the save of HIRA. It says And Taught man that which he knew not (Verse 5). This is a very simple verse which has very deep rooted meanings. It tells us that it is God which taught humans which he did not know.

I know there are lots of Atheists who will take umbrage on this statement, and would say that God has nothing to do with the knowledge of human folks, we learnt by our own efforts. But if you think deeply and ask how the original ideas come into the minds of some humans in the first place. How Copernicus and Galileo and Newton and Einstein got those fundamental ideas into their mind all of a sudden. Ask any great scientist and Inventor as to how the idea came into their mind and in no one elses? They would not be able to answer it except say that they woke up one morning and had this brain wave. These hints of things unknown are what comes from God to humans. They might come to many humans but those who take the hint and work on that idea get the reward. So the link between human and their Lord is not broken and Gods hand is in every invention and every discovery which human kinds have made. This continued link with their Creator is what distinguishes humans from any other life form on this planet. #3. What is the Higher Purpose of Humans Life on this Earth? Part-1 A. Man as Vicegerent on this earth: It is mentioned in Quran, Ch-2 V 30: Behold! Allah said to the angels I will create a Vicegerent on earth They said Will you place therein one who will make mischief therein and shed blood? Whilst we do celebrate Your Praises and Glorify your Name He (Allah) Said I know what you know not This verse of Quran says that Humans had a special purpose from the very beginning of their Creation. That is why they were given special qualities which is not present in other life forms and that is why they were given Domination over them and set to rule over them as that Biblical Verse from Genesis 1:28 mentioned. Human being Vicegerent on this earth is another of the Original idea mentioned in Quran

What is the Higher Purpose of Humans Life on this Earth? Part-2

B. Man as bearer of the Trust: It is mentioned in Quran Ch. 33 V 72: We did indeed offer The Trust to the heavens and the earth and the Mountains; but they refused to undertake it, being afraid thereof: but man undertook it:- he was indeed unjust and foolish This is another of the Original Verse From Quran. It says that humans volunteered to take The Trust, which other things in the Universe declined to take. What is the meaning of The Trust? The commentary of Abdullah Yousuf Ali, comments on this in the footnotes at the bottom of his translation. Note 3777: The Trust is something given to some person, over which he has a power of disposition; he is expected to use it as directed or expected, but he power to use it otherwise (also). There is no trust if the trustee has no power, and the trust implies that the giver of the trust believes and expects that the trustee would use it according to the wish of creator of trust and not otherwise. Note 3779 (Abridged): The heavens, the Earth and the Mountains i.e. other creatures of of Allah, besides man, refused to undertake a trust or a responsibility, and may be imagined as happy without a choice of good and evil being given thru their will.. Man was too audacious and ignorant to realize this and the result has been that man as a race has been disrupted. So it is man who took up the Trust and to use his judgment for picking good or evil ways and he is to be questioned by Allah as to how much he fulfilled this trust. The Power and Dominion Given to man on earth is for him to fulfill that Trust.

Follow up Question # 1 [QUOTE who="NQ"] MUQ, I understand that Mohammed claimed to have receive these revelations from God. But it is hard for me to understand that God offered the "Trust" to the heavens, the earth and the mountains. What did he mean by heavens? earth? and mountains? Also, please explain what the "Trust" is. Thank you. 1. What are the "heavens" that Mohammed said Allah offered the Trust to? 2. What is the earth that Mohammed said Allah offered the Trust to? 3. What are the mountains that Mohammed said Allah offered the Trust to? 4. What exactly is the Trust? [/QUOTE] Ans. MUQ You have asked so many questions in one post, which is against our agreed principle that we will raise one question at one time!! Anyway I will try to answer most of your questions, to the best of my ability and capability. a. What is Sky? In Arabic language sky is anything which is above earth. In Quran we say Allah telling us that He sends rain from the sky. (Ch,2 V 64 and other places) In Quran it is also mentioned that Sun and Moon and stars are in the sky. And then there is mention of seven skies one above in the other (Ch. 67 V 3) All in all there is no proper answer as to what sky really means. Its meaning can be determined seeing the context in which it is used. In the context were I quoted the verse, it might mean all the Universe that is above earth. Allah Knows Best.

b. How Allah speaks to Earth, Sky and Mountains: In Quran it is mentioned that every thing in heavens and earth declared the Praises of Allah (in Past tense) (Ch 57 V1 and many other places) And it is also mentioned in Quran that Everything in Heavens and Earth Declares the Praises of Allah (In Present tense) (Ch 62 V1 and other places) And then it is mentioned in Quran: The seven heavens and the earth and all beings therein, declare His glory, there is not a thing but celebrates His Praise, but you do not understand how they declare His glory. (Ch. 17 V 44) And then it is mentioned in Quran: Dont you see that to Allah bows down in Worship all things that are in heavens and earth, the Sun, the moon, the stars, the mountains, the trees, the animals and a great numbers of amongst mankind (Ch 22 V 18) All these verses tell us that Creator has a way to communicate with each of His creations. How it is done, we are not aware of its exact nature. Some Scholars are of the opinion that these inanimate objects Declare the Glory and Praises of Allah, by their following of Allahs laws and perform the function for which they were created. But we cannot say more than that. Allah Knows Best. C. How did Allah offered the Trust to Sky, Earth and Mountains: It might have a literal meaning or it might have allegorical meaning. It might means all things that live in skies and on earth and on mountains (My explanation not of Quran MUQ). What Quran says is that Allah asked each of His Creations if any one of them was coming forward to accept the Test and the Trust? They all refused fearing the consequences but it was man who came forward and volunteered to fulfill the Trust. And it was because he was foolish and unjust (Ch 33 V 72) Allah Knows Best

D. What was the Trust:? This was explained in the notes which I posted with my message. The Trust was whether any one was ready to have the choice of having the responsibility to chose between Good and Evil and be ready to face consequences of his actions. This was a test and failure could make them open to wrath of Allah, but it also hinted at power and dominion on earth and to Lord over all that are present there.. None of the creatures in sky and on earth accepted this Trust, except man. And that is why only Humans are to account for their actions. Allah Knows Best. I hope that I clarified your points. If you have some more, ask them one at a time. Thank you and have a nice day. Follow Up Question # 2 [QUOTE who="NQ"] 1. So these entities (sky, earth and mountains) refused to administrate the earth (which is, I suppose, the Trust)? 2. OK, let's see if I understand what you just said. But primarily, I want to make sure that is what the Quran says, so I'd have to see the verses exactly that says what you say it says. Summing it up, if I understand you correctly, you said that Allah asked the sky, and earth to choose right from wrong (the Trust), but only humans accepted this charge? If I got that right, I have other questions about this before you go on. [/QUOTE]

Ans. MUQ I think I can see what your basic problem is and what is the mental block preventing you from understanding, much of what we write to each other. a. You think that we are Zombies and cannot dare say any word that goes against Quran. You are right we cannot say any word against Quran but we are not Zombies. b. When we are dealing with Revelation and then some revelation like Quran, which is the revealed Word of God, we have to be very careful. It is not like when we are unable to understand some writing, we just throw them into dustbin. c. This approach does not work with revelation. Take an example, when the US Supreme Court gives its judgment on any Issue, no lower court in US has right to give any judgment contradicting that Supreme Court Judgment. Because Judgment of US Supreme Court lays down the Correct interpretation of Law. The lower courts must acknowledge that law or can ask Supreme Court to review its own decision. d. That is why when it is established beyond any doubt (at least to us) that Quran is the Revelation Sent to our prophet, by the Creator of this Universe, We take its word into reverence and do not treat it as sayings and wordings of other human beings. It is like the Judgment of Supreme Court to us. e. But we are told that Quran is revealed by God All Mighty who is Creator of this Universe and it the ultimate source of Knowledge and Wisdom and Power and Mercy. None of His acts or Words are without Wisdom and without Knowledge. So we try to look out for answer and meaning into its words in the light of what Prophet and his companions and other renowned Muslim Scholars said explaining meanings of these verses. We restrain our tongues and our pens and our mouths unless we find some thing in Quran which is Contradictory and Proven to be against Human Nature and Harmful to Human Society or some task which is really besides human powers. When we analyze Quranic verses we do not get a SINGLE Such Example and I want to repeat we do not get a SINGLE such example. f. However we get many verses which we cannot fully understand and cannot fully explain. But these verses are not AGAINST Reasoning but Beyond our understanding.

g. Take for example the case of Trinity, to say that God became man and came down to earth is AGAINST Reason. God does not change His form and becomes man, because God and Man are Contradictory to each other. One can not be God and man at the same time. (And that this is not what is said by Jesus as another thing). So Trinity is against Reason and against Understanding and Logical Contradiction. h. But the Idea that God speaks to His creations and that they Sing His praises is some thing which we are unable to understand, but it is not against reasoning. We assume that the way we humans speak is the Only mode of communication in this Universe, but it is not. We see Radio Signaling; it does not use any word but gets the job done. So we do not know how exactly God gives His directions to His creations. That is why for such type of verses we believe in their outer meanings and do not pry further. This is the safest way to understand Quran and do not be to deny Quran and bring charges against it the moment we are unable to understand some thing. I wish I was able to clarify my position in this way. Question of Trust k. So as per Quran, Allah gave the choice to each of His Creations to take up the Trust and be infested of powers of choice and be answerable for their actions in the hereafter. Every one refused to take it up and it was human who took up the task. And that is why we see human being so different from every other creations in this Universe. He has got special gifts and powers and dominion and shall be accountable as to how he used or misused his trust. l. As to what would be situation if any other creations agreed to take the trust? Since it did not happen it is only a hypothetical question. God would have made some arrangement to test them and their claim, how we do not know and we need not know and we should not waste our time on something which does not concern us at all. And in the end Allah Knows best, shall we move forward?

PS: What I wrote above might be derived from these Quranic Verses: It is He (i.e. Allah) who sent the book to you: in it are verses basic or fundamental clear (in meaning); they are the foundation of the book: others are not entirely clear (i.e. allegorical) But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is not entirely clear, seeking discord and searching for its interpretation, But no one knows its true meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say We believe in it, the whole of it is from our Lord And none will grasp the message except men of Understanding O Lord! (they say) let not our hearts deviate now after You have guided us, but grant us Mercy from you: for You are granter of Mercies without measure Our Lord! You are the one that will gather mankind together on a day about which there is no doubt; for Allah never fails in His Promise (Ch-3 V 7-9) They do summarize all what I have written and see the beauty and power and Wisdom of Quranic verses, so short and so precise and so full of meaning. Follow Up Question # 3 [QUOTE who="NQ"] It is rather simple. Going back to the purpose of life, Psalm 37:11 says: But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace. and verse 27 says: Turn from evil and do good, and you will live in the land forever. So we see that it is God's purpose and intention for the 'meek,'(or humble) to inherit the earth and live forever in peace on it. Adam accepted the responsibility to refrain from making his own decisions about good vs. bad. He did not refuse that responsibility, but he failed to live up to that responsibility. Despite Adam's failure, God will keep his promise. [/QUOTE]

Ans. MUQ First about that Psalm 37:11, the same quotation is repeated in Quran with a Slight change. Listen to Quranic version: Before this We wrote in the Psalms, after the Message (given to Moses): My Righteous Servants shall inherit the earth (21:105) Notice replacement of word Meek with Righteous Servants. The word Meek does not fully convey the message than the word Righteous Servants. So whosoever translated the Hebrew Word into English did not do a good job. Now, do we Really See Meeks or Righteous Servants inheriting the Earth? What we see is totally different. So Did God spoke Truth ? And how will that promise be realized? PS: Regarding Adam s action, let it set aside for now, because that is not what we are discussing. According to Quran, each one of us, promised to hold the trust before God. So what Adam did not affected any one except Adam. But some people make it so big and bring their OWN theories and Philosophies to take it into a different plain. But we will return to that when we move further in our discussion, Inshallah i.e. God Willing.

Follow Up Question # 4 [QUOTE who="NQ"] One of the reasons I questioned about Moses is that that saying, "the righteous" (or meek) shall inherit the earth is something I took from Psalm 37, which is attributed to David, not Moses. Meek means teachable, easily led. Psalm 25:9 shows that the meek, or humble, are God's friends, not his enemies. 2. But it is absolutely on-topic. That you don't think it is, is your opinion, MUQ. You have your viewpoint, and I believe I am free to express mine, especially since you asked ME for what I think the purpose of human life is. and I started with the basis as purpose of human life that is, the first human, and what God told him would be Adam's purpose. To name the animals. To take care of the earth, to subdue it and cultivate it. To have children. That was the purpose at that time for Adam's life. [/QUOTE] Ans. MUQ You are getting emotional and that is discussion killer. It was your emotional outburst that killed our past discussions and I feel it is going the same way. Now you are trying to defend the word meek by giving any explanation that comes to your mind. It does not mean friends of God. It means people with humility and downtrodden. Meek people could be from any group, an Atheist can also be meek, is he a friend of God. Quranic word Righteous Servants of God is free from such deviations and is very clear and focused. And it is God who knows who are His Righteous Servants. No one can boast or claim that this Title belongs to him. Now the scriptures say that They shall Inherit the Earth. It is a very forceful way and no weak way. But do we see Meek or Righteous Servants inheriting the earth? What does it imply? When they shall Inherit? Or it is a false promise of prophesy? Mans task to cultivate land, to multiply and rule it are secondary tasks not the Prime Tasks. The secondary tasks are needed for their survival and continuation of race. But what about their main task? That is fulfilling the Trust or Covenant to God which they made before they came to the earth.? That is the purpose of human life on this earth and not subduing other creatures or eat, drink , marry, make scientific discoveries. They are only side shows.

Follow Up Question #5: [QUOTE who="NT"] I don't worship god nor am I expected to . Muhammad has told you to ignore god ? Please explain this further, tell us how we are supposed to believe what you said ? When you pray, to whom do you pray and are you to ignore the thoughts that god puts into your mind ? [/QUOTE] Ans. MUQ It would be better if you give your religious background and / or back ground of your parents. In that way I would be better be able to respond to. It would be best, if you ask one question at one time, or raise only one issue at one time. We could move to next point once we have clarified it. I do not discourage you in any way to ask questions.

Follow Up Question #6
[QUOTE who="NQ"]

NQ: Exactly how am I "criticizing" Adam? By telling the truth about him? He was the progenitor of the whole human race, and ALL OF US, including the prophets, were BORN IN SIN, with sinful natures, stemming from Adam in more ways than one, speaking of stem cells. Some of us can listen to God and do better, but that also has to be cultivated and developed. Now listen: if you don't want to torpedo the discussion, go on to your next point, otherwise I might answer your objections to my objections, point by point, lol! [/QUOTE] Ans. To: NQ I would post a few comments on your last reply (Please do not reply, because they are not part of our discussion, you should read books dealing with History of Books of Bible) a. Bible (I mean each book that is included in that collection of books) is not God Word in the sense that any Prophet of God wrote them with his own hand or dictated it to any Scribe. b. No one is certain as to who is the real author of any book of Bible. They only assume and they Believe that such and such person might have written such and such book. In case of Quran we have both "belief and proofs" while in case of Biblical books there are only beliefs and assumptions and no proofs. But to say the truth, the proofs negate that these books were written under inspiration. c. The books suffered both at the hand of scribes, translators and scholars during such a large period of time. d. Most People do not read or can read or do not want to read these books in their original manuscript. They only read translations, and when you have translations, you cannot to Dogmatic about any word written in Bible and carry out long debates with people. e. But with all these restrictions, Biblical books do contain major part of the revelation and teachings which were preached by many prophets of God. The message is there, but there are many other things also mixed with the message. f. The Books of Bible were collected and Canonized in the form of a Single Book after 325 CE. Fall of Adam:

g. If you go strictly as per Biblical account, it was Eve who broke the Covenant first. h. Adam only ate at the advice of women, so in reality (according to Bible) women led to the cause of Adam. So it is she who should be criticised first and not Adam (as many Rabbis and Priests still do). j. And Adam could be excused for his actions, because when he saw Eve ate the fruit and did not die, so he also ate. k. It is Qurans blessing to the women kind, that it never mentions who ate first. He uses the Dual form of language when describing the story. l. Biblical authors for some reason known to them, did not mention the repentance of Adam, God forgiveness to him and ending the matter. It became human nature to forget the commandments, commit sin and then repent sincerely and God shall forgive the sin. m. As you mentioned, humans were destined to populate earth and multiply and eat of the bounties of their Lord and live their lives as per guidance send to their prophets. With that I will post my next point in this series.

What is the Higher Purpose of Humans Life on this Earth? Part-3

C. Human life on this earth is a Test: This is mentioned in many places in Quran, let us give a few Quotations from Quran: Verily We created man from a Tiny part (NUTFAH) of mingled sperm in order to try him: so We gave him (the gifts) of Hearing and Sight (Ch 76, V 2) He (i.e. Allah is the one) Who created Death and Life, that He mat try which of you is best in deed (Ch 67 V 2) Does man think that he will be left Uncontrolled (without purpose) Ch. 75 V 36 Did you think that We had created you in jest; and that you would not be brought back to Us (for account)? All these Quranic verses tell us that Humans shall not be left uncontrolled on this earth, that they should just eat, drink, multiply and fill earth and Lord over other life forms on this earth and Universe. And no question be asked from them about how they took care of The Trust that God imposed upon them? This is Quranic teaching which is repeated again and again in Quran, so much so that there is hardly any page in Quran where this does not come in one form or another. It is strange that we do not find one tenth or one twentieth of that in Bible (both OT and NT). These books have chunks upon chunks of historical details and genealogies and give so much space to minor prophesies or what dangers befall the small Jewish nation. But mention the issue of human accountability and his account taking in the hereafter. And that is what distinguished Quran from Bible and other world scriptures. Human life is therefore a Test on this earth and the results of test shall be declared in the Next Life that shall be in the Hereafter. How therefore can any one say that Quran copied this Idea from Bible, when it is hardly mentioned in Bible at all? Concluding Remarks 01. The discussion ended prematurely as no further response was given by NQ, despite repeated requests from my side. 02. Such is the fate of every discussion, which these people start, but leave in the middle. 03. But still it was a fairly long discussion, focused on the topic of Qualities of A True Prophet of God.