Bridget Healy Deposition Jan 13 2006

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1 SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA
2 COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES, EAST DISTRICT
4 JANICE BASSETT, et al.,
5 Plaintiffs,
6 vs. No. KC 045147 H
7 CITY OF CLAREMONT, et al.,
8 Defendants.
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11 _________________________________________________________
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14 DEPOSITION OF BRIDGET HEALY
15 Claremont, California
16 Friday, January 13, 2006
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21 Reported by:
RAMONA LUX
22 CSR NO. 12846
23 Job No. 42428
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1 SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA
2 COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES, EAST DISTRICT
4 JANICE BASSETT, et al.,
5 Plaintiffs,
6 vs. No. KC 045147 H
7 CITY OF CLAREMONT, et al.,
8 Defendants.
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11 _________________________________________________________
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16 Deposition of BRIDGET HEALY, taken on behalf of
17 Plaintiffs, at 207 Harvard Avenue, Claremont, California,
18 beginning at 9:52 a.m. and ending at 11:35 a.m. on
19 Friday, January 13, 2006, before RAMONA LUX, Certified
20 Shorthand Reporter No. 12846.
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1 APPEARANCES:
3 For Plaintiffs:
4 GROTEFELD & DENENBERG, LLP

BY: MARK. S. GROTEFELD
5 BY: TODD HARSHMAN
Attorneys at Law
6 100 Spear Street, Suite 310
San Francisco, California 94105
7 (415) 344-9670
8 For Defendant City of Claremont:
9 KUTAK ROCK LLP

BY: EDWIN J. RICHARDS
10 Attorney at Law
18201 Von Karman Avenue, Suite 1100
11 Irvine, California 92612-1077
(949) 417-0999
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1 INDEX
2 WITNESS EXAMINATION
3 BRIDGET HEALY
5 BY MR. GROTEFELD 5
8 EXHIBITS
9 DEPOSITION PAGE
10 1 E-mails between Bridget Healy and Craig 39

Bradshaw;
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2 E-mails dated September 17, 2003; 2 pages 42
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3 E-mails dated September 18, 2003; 2 pages 44
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4 E-mails dated October 22, 2003; 2 pages 48
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1 Claremont, California, Friday, January 13, 2006
2 9:52 a.m. - 11:35 a.m.
4 BRIDGET HEALY,
5 having been administered an oath, was examined and
6 testified as follows:
8 EXAMINATION
9 BY MR. GROTEFELD:
10 Q Ma'am would you state your name and please
11 spell your name for our court reporter.
12 A Bridget, B-r-i-d-g-e-t, my last name is Healy,
13 H-e-a-l-y.
14 Q Let the record reflect that this is the
15 deposition of Bridget Healy taken pursuant, on today's
16 date, by notice and actually set on today's date by
17 agreement of the parties on this Friday the 13th. So
18 Ms. Healy, my name is Mark Grotefeld. I am one of the
19 attorneys for the plaintiffs who have brought a lawsuit
20 against the City of Claremont with respect to damage to
21 their homes and other damages associated with the Padua
22 fires of October 2003. I'm going to be asking you
23 questions today relative to your work experience in the
24 city of Claremont and perhaps some other general
25 knowledge you may have about circumstances related to the

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1 fire. If I ask you any question during the course of
2 this deposition that you don't understand, by all means
3 let me know. I can be convoluted at times, so just let
4 me know if you don't understand the question and I'll be
5 glad to rephrase it, but if you don't ask me to do that
6 it's going to be assumed that you understood the question
7 as I phrased it. Fair enough?
8 A Uh-huh.
9 Q You have to say yes or no, too, that's another
10 rule we have. This lady can only take down the spoken
11 word. She cannot take down gestures or phrases like you
12 just made. If you make that phrase during the course of
13 the deposition, I'm not trying to correct your English,
14 I'm simply trying to help preserve a record here. Fair
15 enough?
16 A Yes.
17 Q All right, and lastly, if for some reason you
18 don't hear the question or you want the question repeated
19 we can do that as well. So just let us know. Otherwise,
20 if you don't ask, we're going to operate on the
21 assumption that you heard the question and you understood
22 the question in answering. Fair enough?
23 A Yes.
24 Q All right. This -- your deposition will be
25 something -- and I believe you've met with counsel ahead

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1 of time before this deposition took place -- he may have
2 instructed you or told about this, but if you make
3 changes to your testimony after today's date we may be
4 able to make fair comment upon your making changes to
5 your testimony, in front of a jury. So this testimony
6 for all intents and purposes is the same as if you were
7 on a witness stand in the courtroom. Understood?
8 A Yes.
9 Q Where do you presently live?
10 A City of Indio.
11 Q What's your residential address?
12 A 45271 Big Canyon.
13 Q Okay.
14 A 92201.
15 Q Indio, 92201 And I take it you also now work
16 in the city of Indio?
17 A I do.
18 Q How long have you held a job in the city of
19 Indio?
20 A Since April of last year. Is that eight
21 months, nine months?
22 Q Did your moving to the city of Indio and
23 beginning working with the City of Indio precede or
24 follow Mr. Suthard's move from Claremont to Indio?
25 A I went with him.

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1 Q Okay, so you went at the same time?
2 A At the same time. I actually started two weeks
3 before he did.
4 Q All right. Let's find out a little bit more
5 about your educational background. Where did you go to
6 school?
7 A USC.
8 Q And did you graduate from USC?
9 A Twice.
10 Q What did you first graduate with -- when did
11 you first graduate from USC?
12 A 1974, bachelor's degree in English, and '77
13 with master's in public administration.
14 Q I'm sorry, could you give me that second date
15 again.
16 A 1977.
17 Q Since graduating from USC in 1977 have you
18 taken any other formal -- well, have you had any other
19 formal education?
20 A I went back when I was in what I called my
21 planned career stagnation and I audited a couple of
22 classes in public policy.
23 Q And when did that occur?
24 A Let's see, I was pregnant with my third. She
25 was born in '85, so it would have been '84 or '85.

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1 Q Other than auditing a couple of public policy
2 classes did you -- have you had any other formal
3 education since graduating from USC in 1977?
4 A No.
5 Q Have you had any formal education or training
6 in the field of fire science?
7 A No.
8 Q Have you had any formal education or training
9 in the field of land management?
10 A No.
11 Q Have you had any education or training in any
12 field that would relate to brush management?
13 A No.
14 Q When I say brush management, I have a certain
15 understanding of what that means and I want to explain
16 that to you because I may use that term during the course
17 of our deposition here. When I say brush management I'm
18 talking about mitigation of fuel loads in areas where
19 fire could ultimately cause a spread of a fire from one
20 point to another. Do you understand that?
21 A Yes.
22 Q Okay. After graduating from USC in 1977 what
23 was your first professional job?
24 A City of Pomona.
25 Q And what was your position with the City of

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1 Pomona?
2 A I started out as a 40-hour-a-week intern and
3 when I left I was assistant to the city administrator.
4 Q When did you -- give me the range of years that
5 you worked for Pomona.
6 A 1977 to 1987.
7 Q As the assistant administrator; is that right?
8 A Assistant to the city administrator.
9 Q What were your duties and responsibilities?
10 A Human resources, cable television, legislative
11 analysis.
12 Q Anything else?
13 A No --
14 Q Okay.
15 A -- that was a long time ago.
16 Q In 1987 I take it you transferred jobs?
17 A I did.
18 Q Where did you go?
19 A Here, Claremont.
20 Q Okay, and when you were first employed with the
21 City of Claremont what was your position?
22 A Assistant city manager.
23 Q And did you hold that same title until
24 approximately nine months ago?
25 A I did.
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1 Q So if my math is correct you worked here from
2 1987 through April of 2005?
3 A Correct.
4 Q And as assistant city manager for the City of
5 Claremont what were your duties and responsibilities?
6 A Human resources, public information, agenda
7 preparation and follow-up, a number of special projects
8 over the years, workers' compensation.
9 Q Anything else?
10 A Staff advisory to the police commission just
11 before I left.
12 Q As your job would relate to public information
13 what did you do in the role of assistant city manager for
14 Claremont?
15 A Initially 19 -- 18 years ago, whatever it was,
16 city letter, and then I worked with -- eventually we
17 hired a public information officer and I worked with him
18 on the city letter, the employee newsletter, and then
19 technology took over and I'm not good on that, so he did
20 everything on the Web site.
21 Q So you went from a public newsletter type of a
22 communication to a Web site?
23 A Well, both.
24 Q Both, okay. Was it your job to oversee
25 publication of information to the citizens of Claremont?

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1 A I wouldn't say oversee it. I would say -- we
2 worked in teams here, and that was one of my team
3 projects with the public information officer and
4 representatives from other departments.
5 Q Who was on this public information team, and
6 maybe not so much by name because those names may change
7 over the years, but were there certain positions of
8 government that would be involved in the public
9 information team?
10 A Primarily the management analysts in each
11 department and then two councilmembers on a council
12 committee.
13 Q And those councilmembers would change from time
14 to time?
15 A Yes.
16 Q And I take it the management officers from the
17 various departments would also change?
18 A Yes.
19 Q What was the purpose of the public newsletter
20 that you published?
21 A Provide information to the public. It went to
22 every postal customer.
23 Q Would you have to be a city resident in order
24 to receive this publication?
25 A Resident or businessperson.
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1 Q And for purposes of this newsletter, as you sit
2 here today, and I know that this may be racking your
3 memory back a little bit, but as a sit here today do you
4 recall any public newsletters being sent out to the
5 community relative to the acquisition of the land which
6 is now known as the Claremont Hills Wilderness Park?
7 A I don't remember.
8 Q Do you know if those public newsletters are
9 archived by the City of Claremont?
10 A They are.
11 Q So if there was information contained in a
12 public newsletter that information would be somehow
13 archived here at the City of Claremont?
14 A They were until -- I know up until when I left
15 they were. I assume they are.
16 Q But your best knowledge is they were there in
17 March of 2005?
18 A Correct.
19 Q And whether they're here now you don't know
20 because you work in Indio?
21 A That's right.
22 Q All right. If I wanted to take a look at the
23 public newsletter to see if there was information about
24 the Claremont Hills Wilderness Park acquisition or, for
25 that matter, what the city might be doing in terms of

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1 telling the general public how it was going to manage and
2 maintain that parkland, how would I go about finding out
3 whether these public information newsletters might
4 contain such information?
5 A I would ask the city manager.
6 Q Okay. And what would I ask the city manager to
7 do? Does the city manager keep those documents or were
8 those kept --
9 A In this office, yes.
10 Q I don't mean to sound rude but we have to talk
11 one at a time and I know sometimes we want to answer a
12 question before it's completed, but this lady can only
13 take down one of us talking at a time, and you have to
14 trust me on this, it will go much faster today if you we
15 do it that way. All right?
16 A All right.
17 Q The city manager's office is located within the
18 building in which we are having this deposition today?
19 A Correct.
20 Q Are the archived public newsletters something
21 that are kept in some type of an organized fashion or by,
22 say, for example, year versus subject matter.
23 A They were in chronological order.
24 Q Is there any type of reference guideline as to
25 what topics may be contained in those newsletters?

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1 A There was not.
2 Q Okay. You also talked about one of the duties
3 that you held as assistant city manager for Claremont,
4 the preparation of agendas?
5 A Uh-huh.
6 Q When you say preparation of agendas, what do
7 you mean by that?
8 A I guess the best way to describe it was to say
9 I was the quality control person.
10 Q And by that, what do you mean?
11 A Reading all the reports, making sure that they
12 were grammatically correct, the answer was in the
13 presentation, that they were understandable to the
14 public.
15 Q The agenda reports that you're referring to,
16 are these the agenda reports that would precede a city
17 council meeting?
18 A Correct.
19 Q Who would actually structure the agenda? Would
20 that have been your job when you were assistant city
21 manager, or is that something that the city manager did
22 or was that something somebody else did?
23 A We had biweekly meetings that were led by the
24 city manager.
25 Q And at those biweekly meetings what was

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1 determined for purposes of the agenda?
2 A What would be on the agenda.
3 Q How did an item get to be on the agenda? By
4 that, I mean was there a vote? Was there somebody who
5 said I want this on the agenda and it automatically went
6 on? How did that process take place?
7 A When we had the agenda preparation meetings the
8 department directors or division managers would come to
9 the meeting with a draft report or an outline report.
10 We'd have a round table, everybody would -- you know, the
11 department director or division head would explain the
12 purpose of the agenda report, the policy issue, and then
13 the city manager would determine if it was ready to be
14 placed on the agenda.
15 Q So would it be a fair statement to say that the
16 ultimate decision as to what went on the agenda rested
17 with the city manager?
18 A Correct.
19 Q Now, once an agenda was prepared where did it
20 go? By that, I mean an agenda report was prepared, what
21 happened to the report at that point?
22 A It came to me.
23 Q Then what happened to it?
24 A I read it.
25 Q Just to make sure, again, that it was

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1 grammatically correct and there weren't any typos and
2 that sort of thing?
3 A Correct. And to make sure that the policy
4 issues identified were addressed and to make sure, as I
5 said, that it was understandable.
6 Q When you say make sure that the policy issues
7 were addressed, are you speaking of the issues that were
8 raised at these biweekly meetings?
9 A Yes.
10 Q Did you keep notes of these biweekly meetings
11 in order to determine whether the policy issues were
12 adequately addressed in these agendas?
13 A I did.
14 Q Did you then archive your notes or throw them
15 away after you would read the agendas?
16 A I no longer needed them after the report was
17 completed.
18 Q So once the finished report was prepared, I
19 take it, from your testimony, that you would then throw
20 away your notes pertaining to the previous biweekly
21 agenda meetings?
22 A Correct.
23 Q The agenda reports themselves, are those
24 archived?
25 A Yes.
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1 Q And are those also archived in the city
2 manager's office?
3 A City clerk's office.
4 Q So that's a different spot?
5 A Yes.
6 Q And again this is the best of your
7 understanding as it existed in March --
8 A Correct.
9 Q -- of 2005? I'm going to try to talk faster so
10 I can finish my questions before you answer. If I wanted
11 to look into the agendas -- the reports that were
12 prepared to determine whether any of those agenda reports
13 dealt with as a topic brush clearance in about -- in the
14 wilderness park or, for that matter, anything to do with
15 the wilderness park, where would I best go to see those
16 documents?
17 A City clerk.
18 Q All right. Do you know how those documents are
19 archived? By that, I mean you indicated that the
20 newsletters were kept in a chronological fashion. Do you
21 know if the agenda reports are kept in a similar fashion
22 or some other fashion?
23 A They are laserfiched and the system allows you
24 to do subject matter search, date search, name --
25 Q Can a citizen of Claremont come in and do

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1 that?
2 A Much of this is online.
3 Q On the Web site?
4 A Uh-huh.
5 Q Okay. I'm sorry, you do have to say yes or no.
6 A Yes.
7 Q And if I wanted to go on Claremont's Web site
8 and I'm a citizen of Claremont and I wanted to find out
9 some information about past agendas that were prepared,
10 agenda reports prepared, I could do that by visiting the
11 City of claremont Web site?
12 A Yes.
13 Q Do you know -- is there some secret or trick to
14 getting to this? Do you need a password or is it
15 something anybody can get to?
16 A Anybody can get to it.
17 Q Maybe not me, but some other anybodys anyway.
18 Do you know how far back in time the agendas go in terms
19 of being able to view them from the Web site?
20 A I don't.
21 Q Okay. Special projects, you indicated that
22 special projects was one of the areas that fell under
23 your purview while you were assistant city manager. What
24 do you mean by special projects? And I know that sounds
25 silly because special projects sound like they're

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1 projects out of the ordinary, I know that, but give me an
2 example of what you mean by special projects.
3 A The Orange County bankruptcy, release of a
4 serial rapist in the community, securing a paramedic
5 squad in the city, working with the school district on
6 policies and procedures for high school student safety
7 and campus security.
8 Q As you sit here today do you recall being
9 involved with any special projects that related to the
10 Claremont Hills Wildnerness Park?
11 A No.
12 Q As I you sit here today do you recall working
13 on any special projects that related to either the
14 residential areas of Via Padova or Palmer Canyon?
15 A No.
16 Q As you sit here today do you recall working on
17 any special projects that dealt with Palmer Canyon
18 Road?
19 A No.
20 Q As you sit here today do you recall any special
21 projects that you worked on that dealt with the Padua
22 Theatre?
23 A No.
24 Q There's one topic I did not write down fast
25 enough. Between special projects and staff advisor to

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1 the police commissioner you said something else, and I
2 can't remember what it was right now, one of your --
3 A Workers' compensation.
4 Q Yes, that might have been it. That, I don't
5 need to know about.
6 A I'm sure.
7 Q In any of your work as assistant manager did
8 you have cause to visit, from time to time, the Claremont
9 Hills Wilderness Park?
10 A Yes.
11 Q And as the assistant city manager for Claremont
12 what was the purpose for your visiting the Claremont
13 Hills Wilderness Park?
14 A I hiked.
15 Q Well, my question was probably not a good one,
16 then. I meant in terms of your job function as the
17 assistant city manager. In other words, as part of your
18 daily work effort were you called upon to go to the
19 wilderness as opposed to a recreational hike?
20 A No.
21 Q Would it be a fair statement to say that the
22 Claremont Hills Wilderness Park was not something that
23 you, in terms of your work as the assistant city manager
24 performed any job function with respect to?
25 A Correct.
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1 Q Okay. So you hiked the wilderness park. How
2 often did you hike the wilderness park?
3 A I tried once a week.
4 Q Okay.
5 A I made it about once a month.
6 Q All right, and was this something you did,
7 this, roughly speaking, once-a-month hike through the
8 wilderness park, something that you did for, what, how
9 many years? Let me ask you that.
10 A Well, maybe the last six or seven or eight.
11 Q All right, the wilderness park came into -- at
12 some point during the time that you were city manager the
13 city acquired the wilderness park, do you recall that
14 happening?
15 A Correct.
16 Q Did you have any involvement with the
17 acquisition of that land?
18 A No.
19 Q Did you have any involvement with once the land
20 was prepared -- strike that.
21 Once the city acquired the wilderness park did
22 you have any involvement in the preparation of any of the
23 documents that would formalize how the park would be
24 managed?
25 A No.
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1 Q Are you aware of the existence of any documents
2 that acted as the guidelines for how the park was to be
3 managed?
4 A There was the Hillside Management Plan, I think
5 it was called the Wilderness Park Management Plan.
6 Q Did you ever read that document?
7 A Yes.
8 Q When was the last time you read that
9 document?
10 A Years ago.
11 Q Okay. That's -- so you left in 2005. Would it
12 be a fair statement to say that the last time you read
13 the management plan was a couple of years before you
14 left?
15 A I would say the only time I read the management
16 plan was after it was developed.
17 Q All right. Now, if I told you that the
18 vegetation management plan for the wilderness park was
19 revised a couple of times from the point when Claremont
20 obtained the property to the time you left the City of
21 Claremont do you have any knowledge of those revisions
22 taking place?
23 MR. RICHARDS: Let me object to the form of the
24 question. Maybe it was unintentional, but this question
25 has now changed and you're talking about a different plan

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1 than what she has knowledge about. You're now asking
2 about --
3 MR. GROTEFELD: Okay, you're right, I got you.
4 Thanks.
5 Q Let me ask you this. You're talking about, if
6 I understand you correctly, with Mr. Richard's assistance
7 clarifying in my own little brain what document you're
8 talking about, you're talking about the guidelines for
9 managing the park itself, correct?
10 A Correct.
11 Q Have you ever seen any guidelines for how the
12 vegetation was to be managed in the park? In other
13 words, written guidelines with respect to that issue?
14 A That was the portion written by the fire
15 department, as I recall.
16 Q Okay. When you say you recall that was the
17 portion written by the fire department, how do you know
18 that to be true?
19 A It's in the depth of my brain somewhere.
20 Q Okay. You're patting the back of your head,
21 we'll see if we can wrestle that out a little bit. Did
22 somebody tell you the fire department prepared that
23 document?
24 A As I recall, the overall management plan
25 assigned the vegetation portion to the fire department.

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1 Q This is your recollection?
2 A That's my recollection.
3 Q Okay. And the last time you recall reading
4 this document was many years ago?
5 A Many years ago.
6 Q One time?
7 A One time.
8 Q Do you recall anything else that's contained in
9 this overall park guideline document other than what you
10 think is the concept of the L.A. County Fire Department
11 being responsible for creating a vegetation management
12 plan?
13 A No.
14 Q The last time you read the park guidelines did
15 that occur before or after the Padua fire?
16 A Before.
17 Q In terms of a timeline, can you give me an
18 approximation of how close in proximity to the Padua fire
19 was the time you read the guidelines. By that, I mean
20 are we talking about months or years?
21 A Years.
22 Q All right. So if the Padua fire occurred in
23 2003 would it be a fair statement to say that the one and
24 only time that you read the park guidelines, the overall
25 park guidelines, was several years prior to 2003?

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1 A Correct.
2 Q Has anybody ever told you that the job fell
3 upon the County of Los Angeles to create the vegetation
4 plan?
5 A No, but I recall -- I mean, the logo is on the
6 front of the overall plan.
7 Q Okay. I was just asking did somebody tell you
8 that, oh, by the way, the County of Los Angeles was
9 responsible for preparing the written vegetation
10 management plan guidelines?
11 A No.
12 Q Okay. And other than your recollection as you
13 sit here today of what this vegetation -- or excuse me,
14 what the overall guidelines for the wilderness park may
15 have said about vegetation management you don't have any
16 other independent knowledge concerning how vegetation
17 management was to take place in the wilderness park. Is
18 that a correct statement?
19 A I remember there were goats, and other than
20 that, that's all I recall.
21 Q Okay. So we have -- and I'm not trying to pin
22 you down, I'm just trying to understand the level of your
23 knowledge here. If I understand you correctly, then, you
24 knew that there was some goats that were up in the park,
25 at some point, eating brush, correct?

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1 A Correct.
2 Q Do you know when those goats were up in the
3 park?
4 A I don't.
5 Q Do you know the effectiveness of those goats
6 being up in the park?
7 A I don't.
8 Q Do you know whether the goats actually -- this
9 is going to sound silly -- performed a service which was
10 intended or whether they actually did harm to the
11 vegetation in the park?
12 A All I know is there was goats in the park.
13 Q Did anybody report to city government, that
14 you're aware of, as to the effectiveness of this use of
15 goats in the park?
16 A I don't know.
17 Q Okay. So other than the goats, and I think
18 we've established you don't really know when the goats
19 were up there, do you know how many times you saw goats
20 up there?
21 A Well, I didn't see them. I remember reading
22 about it.
23 Q Okay. I thought maybe on some of your hikes
24 through the park you saw some goats.
25 A No.
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1 Q You remember reading about some goats being up
2 in the park and I think you remember reading, this one
3 time, the overall guidelines for the park management. Is
4 there anything else that you're aware of that would
5 relate to how the park would have been maintained in
6 terms of brush management, the fuel modification?
7 A That's the fire department's responsibility.
8 Q Now, you say, "That's the fire department's
9 responsibility." Who told you that?
10 A It was part of -- the management plan has the
11 logo of the city and the county fire department on it.
12 County fire department was responsible for managing the
13 vegetation, I remember that. I do remember that.
14 Q Anybody ever tell you that?
15 A No.
16 Q Okay, that's your recollection based upon
17 reading this one document many years ago?
18 A Yes.
19 Q One time?
20 A Yes.
21 Q Any other basis for that statement?
22 A No.
23 Q Are you aware of any duties and
24 responsibilities that the City of Claremont had with
25 respect to managing the brush in the wilderness park?

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1 A No.
2 Q To the best of your recollection, was it ever
3 discussed in any of these biweekly agenda report meetings
4 the duties and responsibilities that Claremont had with
5 respect to brush management in the wilderness park?
7 Q Did you ever participate in any creation of
8 budgets that would relate to management of the wilderness
9 park?
10 A No.
11 Q Did you participate in the creation of the
12 overall budget for the City of Claremont while you were
13 here?
14 A Well, in terms of the human resources costing,
15 benefits costing, I participated in that regard.
16 Q Do you recall having seen any documents that
17 would have reflected what the City of Claremont intended
18 to budget for brush clearance in the wilderness park?
19 A No.
20 Q Are you familiar with any of the types of fuel
21 modification that were to be employed in the park? By
22 that, I'm talking about such topics as brush clearance
23 versus a set fire for purposes of clearing an area or
24 tree pruning or you've talked about the goats. Are you
25 familiar with any of those general topics?

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1 A No.
2 Q I apologize if I asked this question of you
3 before, but did you ever read any of the Claremont Hills
4 Wilderness Park vegetation management plans that existed
5 during the time you were assistant city manager for
6 Claremont?
7 A I remember reading the overall wilderness park
8 management plan, the vegetation portion of it. I don't
9 recall.
10 Q I'm just going to see if this refreshes your
11 recollection a little bit. I'm not going to ask you to
12 stumble through the whole thing, but this document was
13 marked Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 25 to Mr. Hodnick's
14 deposition and it's a document that was identified in his
15 deposition as the Claremont Hills Wilderness Park
16 policies and guidelines. That document, it was adopted
17 in March of 1996 and was revised in May of 1998. Is this
18 the document that you -- and by all means if you want to
19 take a look at it, please do so to see if it refreshes
20 your recollection -- but is this the document that you
21 recall seeing that one time a few years back?
22 A That's the cover I recall and that's with the
23 logos that I was talking about. This, I don't recall
24 this cover at all.
25 Q Okay. So just so the record is clear, you're

31
1 looking at what is Exhibit 25 to Mr. Hodnick's deposition
2 and you're indicating to us you don't ever recall seeing
3 that document?
4 A Correct.
5 Q And now if I can pull that away from you. And
6 as you were quick to correct me, Exhibit 11, also to
7 Mr. Hodnick's deposition, is a document that was
8 identified as the City of Claremont -- Claremont Hills
9 Wilderness Park vegetation management plan. This
10 particular copy was adopted in January of 1999 and later
11 revised in October of 2000. If we go to Exhibit 12, it's
12 essentially the same cover that I just read; however,
13 Exhibit 12 is the one that was adopted in January of 1999
14 and later revised in May of 2003. Now, I think you, in
15 looking at the cover, you were looking at the little
16 seals that are at the bottom of the pages that are the
17 front pages for both Exhibits 11 and 12, correct?
18 A Correct.
19 Q And one of those seals is from Los Angeles
20 County, correct?
21 A Correct.
22 Q And one is from the City of Claremont,
23 correct?
24 A Correct.
25 Q As you sit here today do you remember which

32
1 version you read, whether Exhibit 11 or 12?
2 MR. RICHARDS: Objection. I object to the form
3 of the question. You've asked her which of these two
4 versions she's read and I don't think you've established
5 yet that that's what she read. Ask her.
6 BY MR. GROTEFELD:
7 Q Did you read Exhibit 11 or Exhibit 12.
8 I think she just pointed saying she read
9 Exhibit 11.
10 THE WITNESS: Yes.
11 BY MR. GROTEFELD:
12 Q Okay. So your best recollection is the
13 guideline document that you read for the City of
14 Claremont's wilderness park is the document which has
15 been marked Exhibit 11 in Mr. Hodnick's deposition?
16 A My best recollection, yes.
17 Q What makes you think that to be the case?
18 A I just remember this cover --
19 Q Okay.
20 A -- what can I say.
21 Q Okay, that's fine. And you have -- so we're
22 clear, you've never looked at this document since the one
23 and only time that --
24 A Correct.
25 Q -- you reviewed it many years ago?

33
1 A Correct.
2 Q Before the time that the Claremont Hills
3 Wilderness Park was obtained by the city were you aware
4 of any type of report that existed with LAFCO concerning
5 Claremont's sphere of influence?
6 A No.
7 Q Do you know what I mean -- do you know what I'm
8 talking about when I say sphere of influence?
9 A Yes.
10 Q What's your understanding of that phrase,
11 sphere of influence?
12 A Well, the sphere of influence is the -- it's
13 within --
14 Q Like special projects?
15 A Yeah, like special projects. It's within the
16 city's parameters of influence.
17 Q All right. So if I understand the concept,
18 please correct me if I'm mistaken about this, a sphere of
19 influence for a city can include areas that are not
20 specifically incorporated within the city but they are
21 areas that are affected by how the city operates?
22 A Correct.
23 Q And they are also areas that may take benefit
24 from the operations of a certain municipality. So for
25 example, if somebody lived in the Via Padova or Palmer

34
1 Canyon the sphere of influence for Claremont may have
2 included that area based upon people sending children to
3 Claremont schools, people shopping in Claremont, things
4 of that nature, correct?
5 MR. RICHARDS: Objection. Your question -- to
6 the form of the question. It's compound, and the second
7 half of it is a hypothetical that I think is
8 insufficient, but primarily it's a compound question.
9 Lets me ask you to break it down.
10 MR. GROTEFELD: What's the compound nature of
11 it?
12 MR. RICHARDS: Read it back, please.
13 (Record read.)
14 MR. RICHARDS: Don't answer.
15 Do you see the compound?
16 MR. GROTEFELD: No.
17 MR. RICHARDS: The first part of the question
18 you're asking her to agree with you're general statement
19 and then you go into a detailed hypothetical example.
20 Which one do you want her to answer?
21 MR. GROTEFELD: Well, I don't see the compound
22 nature, but to move things along, I'll --
23 Q Would you agree -- and I'll rephrase it --
24 would you agree that --
25 MR. RICHARDS: Thanks.

35
1 BY MR. GROTEFELD:
2 Q Via Padova and Palmer Canyon would be included
3 within the sphere of influence for the City of
4 Claremont?
5 A Yes.
6 Q And why would you think that to be the case?
7 A Geographic location, shopping, schools, mailing
8 address.
9 Q Things that I just stated before?
10 A Yes.
11 Q Okay. Do you recall participating in any
12 discussions prior to the city acquiring the Claremont
13 Hills Wilderness Park land that acquisition of this --
14 that would have dealt with the topic of acquisition of
15 the land and how it would benefit the City of
16 Claremont?
17 MR. RICHARDS: The parkland, you mean?
18 MR. GROTEFELD: Yes.
19 THE WITNESS: I don't recall specifically being
20 in conversations, but the idea was to preserve --
21 MR. RICHARDS: Then the answer is no.
22 THE WITNESS: Yeah, no.
24 Q Yes, I just wanted to know what you know. Our
25 questions here today to simply to find out what you know,

36
1 not necessarily what somebody else might have told you,
2 if somebody else told you something and that's the basis
3 for your understanding, then we need to know that as
4 well.
5 A Okay.
6 Q When land was acquired -- and I think you've
7 already established you weren't involved in that
8 transaction.
9 A Correct.
10 Q When the land was acquired do you know who was
11 it was acquired from?
12 A The colleges.
13 Q All right. Do you know whether that land
14 acquisition included land that was -- also included Padua
15 Theater?
16 A It did.
17 Q Okay. Do you know if the land acquisition also
18 included Palmer Canyon Road?
19 A I don't know.
20 Q All right. Do you know if the land acquisition
21 included the vacant properties that were situated between
22 the residential homes in Palmer Canyon?
23 A I don't know.
24 Q And do you know whether the land acquisition
25 included properties that abutted or were adjacent to

37
1 Palmer Canyon residents and Via Padova residents?
2 A I don't know.
3 Q Do you know who was responsible for the
4 maintenance in the Claremont Hills Wilderness Park? And
5 we don't want you to guess, but if you know.
6 A I don't know.
7 Q Okay. And the same would hold true for Palmer
8 Canyon Road, do you know who was responsible for the
9 maintenance?
10 A I don't know.
11 Q How about for the maintenance of the Padua
12 Theatre, do you know who was responsible for that during
13 your time here as assistant city manager, once it was
14 acquired by Claremont?
15 A We did that.
16 Q All right. Are you familiar with Claremont
17 Municipal Code Title 15? That's the area of the municpal
18 code that deals with fire prevention and fire issues.
19 A No.
20 Q There's a section 9(a). I just wanted to know
21 if you were aware of the fact that Claremont had adopted
22 the Los Angeles County fire code. Is it so?
23 A I don't recall.
24 Q Okay. Do you recall ever having read that
25 aspect of the municipal code?

38
1 A The fire section?
2 Q Correct.
3 A No.
4 Q No, you have not read it?
5 A I don't recall.
6 Q Okay. Are you aware of the fact that the city
7 of Claremont had designated the area known as the
8 wilderness park as a hazardous fire zone?
9 A No.
10 Q Are you aware of any of the vegetation/brush
11 clearance setback requirements that are contained in any
12 of these codes I was just referring to?
13 A No.
14 Q Do you know as you sit here today what the
15 brush clearance requirements were for clearing brush away
16 from the homes in Via Padova and Palmer Canyon?
17 A You mean the specific footage?
18 Q Correct.
19 A No.
20 Q In July or thereabouts of 2003, about three
21 months before the fire, do you recall being involved in a
22 process where the City of Claremont was being requested
23 by the County of Los Angeles to make certain
24 modifications to Palmer Canyon Road?
25 A No.
39
1 MR. GROTEFELD: Okay. Let me get these in
2 chronological order for us.
3 Would you be so kind as to mark this as our
4 first exhibit to Ms. Healy's deposition.
5 I'm going to hand this to your lawyer, first,
6 and I'll ask him to pass that along to you when he's
7 finished looking at it.
8 (Deposition Exhibit 1 marked.)
9 BY MR. GROTEFELD:
10 Q Ms. Healy, I'm going to offer to you that this
11 is a document that was produced to us by the City of
12 Claremont and it is a photocopy of what appears to be
13 e-mail correspondence communication between yourself and
14 the city engineer, Mr. Bradshaw. After -- have you had a
15 chance the read the contents of that document?
16 A Yes.
17 Q There looks to be two e-mails on that page, the
18 bottom one being the first in time and the one at the top
19 of the page being the last in time. Did I state that
20 correctly?
21 A Correct.
22 Q The bottom e-mail is from who and sent to
23 whom?
24 A It's from Craig to me.
25 Q And what's the subject?

40
1 A Palmer Canyon.
2 Q And what is stated in that e-mail?
3 A That the city manager is asking for
4 information, how much it would cost to clear and remove
5 trees to meet fire requirements.
6 Q As you sit here today, do you know why
7 Mr. Bradshaw was writing that e-mail to you in July of
8 2003? By that, I mean why is he writing this to you as
9 opposed to any other person in the city government?
10 A I don't know.
11 Q Okay, but nobody else is copied on that e-mail,
12 are they?
13 A Tony Witt.
14 Q I'm sorry, it's hard to read upside from across
15 the table. Tony Witt's position at that time was what?
16 A Community development director.
17 Q And did Tony work with you or in your
18 department or somewhere else?
19 A He was Craig's supervisor.
20 Q So Craig was copying his supervisor --
21 A Right.
22 Q -- and sending you an e-mail indicating that
23 Mr. Southard was seeking information about what, again?
24 A Clear and remove trees and meet fire
25 requirements.
41
1 Q Okay. I don't know if we quite got to the
2 answer of the question. Do you know why that e-mail was
3 sent to you as opposed to somebody else in city
4 government?
5 A I don't.
6 Q You responded --
7 A I did.
8 Q -- to his e-mail, I believe, on the same day,
9 shortly thereafter. It looks like about five minutes
10 later you wrote an e-mail back to Mr. Bradshaw and I
11 don't believe you copied anybody else, did you?
12 A No.
13 Q And what did you say to Mr. Bradshaw at that
14 time?
15 A It will be interesting to see what happens.
16 Getting prices and making it happen are two entirely
17 different things.
18 Q What did you mean by that statement?
19 A Well, just what it says. I mean, Glenn is the
20 kind of city manager that was always asking for
21 information and then we would get the information and
22 then see if something would happen.
23 Q Do you know what precipitated Mr. Bradshaw
24 writing this e-mail to you? I'm not asking you what you
25 knew at the time that the e-mail was sent but as you sit
42
1 here today, do you know what precipitated Mr. Bradshaw
2 writing this e-mail to you?
3 A I have a vague recollection that the fire
4 department wanted certain trees removed.
5 Q Is that the full extent of your recollection?
6 A That's the full extent.
7 MR. GROTEFELD: Okay. If we could mark this, I
8 just want to make sure -- give me a second here. This
9 one appears to have a stream of consciousness to it, so
10 we'll put both of these pages together as Exhibit 2.
12 MR. GROTEFELD: I'm going to hand to your
13 counsel what we've marked as Exhibit 2 to your deposition
14 and I will indicate, once Mr. Richards passes that along
15 to you, again, I'm going to indicate to you that these
16 are photocopies of what appear to be e-mails sent
17 internally among Claremont employees that were produced
18 to us by the City of Claremont in this litigation.
19 Q These two pages appear to be a stream of
20 consciousness, so to speak, if you will, e-mails written
21 to and from several people on the 17th of September 2003
22 relating to, I believe, the topic matter is again Palmer
23 Canyon; is that correct?
24 A Yes.
25 Q You are shown as a person involved in that

43
1 e-mail communication in a couple of those e-mails. I
2 don't think you're on all of them, I'm not going to
3 suggest that you're on all of them. As you sit here
4 today do you recall what Exhibit 2 was referring to in
5 terms of the topic matter?
6 A They refer to improvements required by the fire
7 department.
8 Q Okay. As it would relate to Palmer Canyon
9 Road, correct?
10 A Correct -- well, it says "Palmer Canyon."
11 MR. RICHARDS: Okay, now, just for
12 clarification, he's not asking you to read that and
13 interpret it --
14 THE WITNESS: I don't want to.
15 MR. RICHARDS: -- because the document will
16 speak for itself. What he's asking you is, having read
17 that do you have any recollection about these --
18 MR. GROTEFELD: Events.
19 MR. RICHARDS: Communications, yes.
20 THE WITNESS: No.
22 Q So we're clear, by showing Exhibit 2 it doesn't
23 refresh your recollection of any communication you might
24 have been involved in back in September 2003 relative to
25 any type of activity up in Palmer Canyon that the City of

44
1 Claremont was being potentially requested to do by Los
2 Angeles County, correct?
3 A As I mentioned earlier, the only
4 recollection --
5 MR. RICHARDS: No, no. Read the question back,
6 please.
7 Answer the question.
8 (Record read.)
9 MR. RICHARDS: Answer yes or no. Does it
10 refresh your recollection?
11 THE WITNESS: It does not refresh my
12 recollection.
14 Q Okay. Now that being said, I believe you've
15 already told us that the only thing that you remember was
16 that there were some issues pertaining to some trees
17 needing to be cut up in that area and that L.A. County
18 had mentioned that to Claremont, is that a fair
19 statement?
20 A Correct.
21 Q Let me see if we can -- if this e-mail helps
22 at all.
23 We'll mark this as Exhibit 3.
25 MR. GROTEFELD: Exhibit 3 is a two-page

45
1 document. I'm going to pass that along to your attorney
2 and have him pass that along to you.
3 Q Exhibit 3, again, was produced to us by the
4 City of Claremont and again it appears to be photocopies
5 of e-mails to and from city employees. These e-mails
6 were issued, I believe, on the 18th of September 2003 and
7 you do appear to be a recipient, I believe -- it's hard
8 for me to read upside down. Again, I believe on both of
9 those e-mails you were included in the loop; is that
10 correct?
11 A Correct.
12 Q As you sit here today, do you recall the reason
13 why you would have been included in the loop, so to
14 speak, with respect to the topics addressed in Exhibit
15 3?
16 A No.
17 Q Were you being asked at that time to perform
18 any type of work with respect to the inquiry concerning
19 the subject raised in Exhibit 3?
21 Q There seems to be a bit of a detailed question
22 and answer in the initial e-mail from Mr. -- I think it's
23 from Mr. Bradshaw, do you see that?
24 A Correct.
25 Q And that's directed to Mr. Southard and you're

46
1 one of the recipients of a copy. Do you recall
2 participating in any meetings where those subject matters
3 were addressed?
4 A No.
5 Q The top e-mail is an e-mail from Mr. Southard
6 directed to Mr. Bradshaw and I believe you're copied on
7 it. It was sent about 4:51 p.m., I believe, on the 18th
8 of September 2003. Do you see that?
9 A Correct.
10 Q What did Mr. Southard say in response to
11 Mr. Bradshaw's e-mail of that afternoon?
12 MR. RICHARDS: Just read it. He's asking you
13 to read it.
14 THE WITNESS: "I think we should just fix road
15 and trees. Keep it simple."
17 Q Do you know what Mr. Southard was referring to
18 when he said "Keep it simple."
19 A No.
20 Q Is the decision to simply fix the roads and
21 trees a decision that would have rested with Mr. Southard
22 or would that have been a city council decision, if you
23 know?
24 A I don't know.
25 Q Is this the type of matter that typically would

47
1 be contained in agenda reports that would ultimately go
2 before the city council, these types of decisions?
3 A I don't know that this would go to the city
4 council, this was county property, maybe the county board
5 of supervisors.
6 Q Well, it's actually referring to Palmer Canyon
7 Road --
8 A Correct.
9 Q -- and Palmer Canyon Road was property of the
10 City of Claremont, so it's not dealing with county
11 property.
12 A I don't know that.
13 Q Okay, you don't know that. For purposes of my
14 question if you would assume that we're talking about
15 property that's owned by the City of Claremont and
16 requests are being made for expending funds in the
17 vicinity of $50,000 I believe was what Mr. Bradshaw was
18 referring to in the cost to repair the roadway, would
19 that type of decision, in order to make those repairs or
20 not make those repairs to city property, be something
21 that would typically be decided by the city manager?
22 A Under 75,000, yes.
23 Q Okay. If it was over 75,000 does some
24 different process come into place?
25 A City council.
48
1 Q As you sit here today, do you have any
2 independent recollection of any follow-up conversations
3 that occurred relative to these e-mails?
4 A No.
5 Q I'm going to show you what we'll have marked as
6 Exhibit 4 to your deposition.
8 BY MR. GROTEFELD:
9 Q I've handed that document to your counsel and
10 your counsel has passed that document along to you.
11 Again, it's a two-page exhibit that contains yet another
12 series of e-mails among City of Claremont employees, and
13 I'll indicate to you that this was also produced to us by
14 the city in the course of this litigation. This series
15 of e-mails, I believe, was dated around the 22nd of
16 October 2003, correct?
17 A Correct.
18 Q All right. And are you, again, the recipient
19 of this communication?
20 A No.
21 Q Can I see that again, please.
22 A Sure.
23 Q Thank you. I'm sorry. All right, why don't
24 you take a look at the bottom of the first page and see
25 if you were copied on the -- I'm sorry, this is a

49
1 follow-up e-mail. Right, I see, I'll just clarify on the
2 record. You received the e-mail which is at the bottom
3 of the page, which is actually the e-mail that's found in
4 Exhibit 3. That would be an e-mail dated the 18th of
5 September from Mr. Bradshaw to Mr. Southard and you were
6 copied on that, correct?
7 A Correct.
8 Q It appears to be some reply was made from
9 Mr. Bradshaw to Loretta Mustafa and to Tony Witt about a
10 month later, in October, correct?
11 A Correct.
12 Q All right. Now, you're not copied on that top
13 reply, but my question to you is: As you sit here today
14 do you know what was ultimately decided to do with
15 respect to repairing the roadway situation up in Palmer
16 Canyon?
17 MR. RICHARDS: Well, object to the form of the
18 question. You're talking about repair of the roadway and
19 there has not been any testimony nor is there any content
20 in these e-mails that talks in terms of repairing the
21 roadway. It talks in terms of clearing trees.
22 MR. GROTEFELD: You should read them. Read
23 Exhibit 3 and then maybe you can -- it might help you.
24 It talks about repairing the roadway.
25 MR. RICHARDS: Okay, my objection is there. Go

50
1 ahead.
2 BY MR. GROTEFELD:
3 Q Well, you can go ahead and answer my question.
4 Do you want to hear it again?
5 THE WITNESS: What was the question?
6 MR. GROTEFELD: Would you read it, please.
7 (Record read.)
8 THE WITNESS: No.
9 BY MR. GROTEFELD:
10 Q Did you ever participate in any meetings with
11 City of Claremont employee who were involved that
12 discussed repairing the roadway in Palmer Canyon?
14 Q Did you ever participate in any meetings with
15 the City of Claremont where the topic of brush clearance
16 in Palmer Canyon was discussed?
18 Q Did you participate in any meetings for the
19 City of Claremont where brush clearance in the area of
20 Via Padova was discussed?
22 Q Would it be a fair statement to say that you
23 don't recall any meetings that you ever participated in
24 while acting as the assistant city manager for the City
25 of Claremont where the topic of brush clearance was

51
1 discussed as it would relate to either Palmer Canyon, Via
2 Padova or the Claremont Hills Wilderness Park?
3 A That would be fair, yes.
4 Q All right. I'm going to take a two-minute
5 break and you can just leave those in front of you.
6 (Recess.)
7 MR. GROTEFELD: We're back on the record.
8 Q Ms. Healy, do you recall the night of October
9 25, 2003 when the Padua fire entered Los Angeles
10 County?
11 A Yes.
12 Q Where did you live at that time?
13 A In Claremont.
14 Q In the city of Claremont itself?
15 A Yes.
16 Q Were you summoned to come to work late that
17 evening?
18 A I went to work after taking my dog for a walk
19 to see what was going on.
20 Q What time were you taking your dog for a
21 walk?
22 A That whole night is such a blur. 8:00, 8:30,
23 9:00, somewhere around there.
24 Q And this would be 8:30, 9 o'clock on the
25 evening of October 25, 2003?

52
1 A Was that the Saturday night?
2 Q Saturday night.
3 A Yes.
4 Q Where did you go after you walked your dog?
5 A I went to the police department.
6 Q Why did you go to the police department?
7 A Because while I was walking the dog, and I was
8 walking north so I saw the fire heading west across the
9 hills, I called the city manager and I said we're in
10 trouble, and he said call the police chief and I did, and
11 the police chief was already at the police department,
12 and I said, "Okay, I'm on my way."
13 Q When you were walking your dog did you visually
14 see the fire line?
15 A Yes.
16 Q Was it in Los Angeles County at that time?
17 A Hard to say because I live on the east side of
18 the city and that's where I was walking, but there were
19 multiple lines. There was the big one and then kind of
20 some smaller ones ahead of it.
21 Q As you were walking your dog had you noticed by
22 that time whether the fire had crossed the area of San
23 Antonio Dam?
24 A It's really hard to say from the way the fire
25 lines were and the smoke and windstorms, it was close.

53
1 Q Do you know what the wind and weather
2 conditions were in Palmer Canyon at that time?
3 A In the canyon, no.
4 Q What were the wind and weather conditions where
5 you were standing when you were walking your dog?
6 A Hot, dry, windy.
7 Q And had that type of condition existed for some
8 time prior to your walking the dog, the best you know or
9 was it just then that it became hot, dry, and windy?
10 A Well, all week it had been hot, dry and windy
11 but the winds really kicked up earlier in that evening.
12 Q In the City of Claremont?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Do you know what the winds were doing up in
15 Palmer Canyon area?
16 A I do not.
17 Q Or do you know where Potato Mountain is?
18 A Yes.
19 Q Do you know what the wind conditions were up
20 there?
21 A I do not.
22 Q Do you know what the wind conditions were up
23 at, say, the San Antonio dam area?
24 A I do not.
25 Q Or say, for example, in the Claremont Hills

54
1 Wilderness Park?
2 A I do not.
3 Q So after you went to the police station what
4 did you next do?
5 A Well, we set up an incident board. We were
6 tracking the fire based on -- at that point police
7 officers were already in the northeast section of the
8 city initiating evacuations. I had taken the dog with
9 me. I am a product of the Bel Air fire, I knew what fire
10 could do. As we were tracking the fire and I saw where
11 it was burning, I called my son, there was some family
12 memorabilia things, I said, "Just get that out of the
13 house, don't worry about anything else, just get that
14 stuff," and sometime later -- and again that whole night
15 is a blur -- but Glenn, the city manager, showed up. We
16 went out on a field trip. We went up to Claraboya.
17 Q About what time did you go to Claraboya?
18 A As I said, it's such a blur, midnight, maybe 1
19 o'clock, came back down the hill, went to the Alexander
20 Hughes Community Center, which had already been set up as
21 the evacuation center.
22 Q I don't mean to interrupt you as you go along
23 but it may make the questioning a little easier and make
24 this go a little faster. What areas of the city of
25 Claremont were evacuated by Claremont police?

55
1 A Well, they were evacuating the northeast
2 section around Hollister and east of Padua and then we
3 called in mutual aid. We had officers here from La Verne
4 and El Monte and the sheriff was here. The fire was
5 moving so fast and we had officers from other agencies
6 assisting in the evacuation, moving westward as the fire
7 was moving -- sorry, it's really traumatic to even
8 remember it.
9 Q Do you have any knowledge as to what time the
10 fire entered Palmer Canyon?
11 A I don't.
12 Q All right. Do you have any knowledge as to
13 what time the fire attacked the homes in Via Padova?
14 A I don't.
15 Q Do you know from what direction the fire
16 entered into Palmer Canyon?
17 A Well, the fire was coming from the east,
18 burning west and southerly.
19 Q The general path of fire?
20 A The general path, yeah, but, you know, embers
21 are flying and fires are lighting and --
22 Q I'm just asking you what you know. Do you know
23 from what direction the fire actually entered into Palmer
24 Canyon?
25 A Yeah, from the east.

56
1 Q How do you know that?
2 A Because that's where the fire was. The fire
3 started in Fontana on Tuesday and burned west.
4 Q Let me ask you this question. Do you know if
5 the fire first skipped over Palmer Canyon --
6 A I don't know.
7 Q -- and then attacked the houses in Palmer
8 Canyon from the west to the east?
9 A I don't know.
10 Q Okay. Has anybody ever told you how the houses
11 in Palmer Canyon ignited?
12 A No.
13 Q Has anybody ever told you that the vegetative
14 state of the brush in the wilderness park participated in
15 the fires burning the homes in Palmer Canyon?
16 A No.
17 Q Has anybody ever told you that the vegetation
18 in the wilderness park had nothing to do with the fires
19 burning the homes in Palmer Canyon?
20 A Can you say that again.
21 Q Sure.
22 Would you be so kind as to read that back.
23 (Record read.)
24 THE WITNESS: No.
57
1 Q Same question as it would relate to Via Padova,
2 has anybody ever told you that the vegetative state of
3 the brush in the Claremont Hills Wilderness Park had
4 nothing to do with the homes in Via Padova burning?
5 A No.
6 Q You went up to Claraboya, you said, about
7 midnight?
8 A Uh-huh.
9 Q Why did you go there?
10 A The city manager's home was up there.
11 Q And were you looking to see if Mr. Southard's
12 home had survived the fire?
13 A Correct.
14 Q Did his home in fact survive the fire?
15 A Yes.
16 Q After going with Mr. Southard to see if his
17 home had survived the fire what did you do next?
18 A We went -- I don't recall if we went back to
19 the police department first or if we went straight to the
20 Alexander Hughes Community Center, but we did end up at
21 the community center that night.
22 Q You said, a little bit earlier, that the fire
23 was moving fast. "Fast" is a relative term, so I'm going
24 to ask you what may sound to be a technical question. Do
25 you know how many feet were being consumed or acres were
58
1 being consumed in this fire in relation to any time
2 element?
3 A A lot.
4 Q So we're talking about general terms?
5 A Yes.
6 Q But I'm asking you did you participate in any
7 type of determination as to how fast the Padua fire
8 actually moved into L.A. County and through L.A. County
9 to the extent it moved through L.A. County?
10 A No.
11 Q And as you sit here today do you have any
12 information as to the rate of speed of that fire?
13 A No.
14 Q Do you have any information as to -- do you
15 know, I should say, how many acres per second were being
16 consumed by that fire?
17 A No. You know what, I just remembered
18 something. We also went to the fire staging headquarters
19 at station 62 and I don't remember the order.
20 Q So at some time in the sequence of events when
21 you were at the police station and Claraboya you also
22 visited fire station 62?
23 A We did.
24 Q Do you know what the purpose of you visiting
25 fire station 62 was?

59
1 A The fire chief, Michael Freeman, was here and
2 we just went to touch base with him.
3 Q And he was actually stationed at Station 62?
4 A Yes. Well, what do you mean stationed? That
5 was the command post.
6 Q That's what I meant. He was situated in
7 Station 62 that evening?
8 A Uh-huh.
9 Q Is that a fair statement?
10 A Uh-huh.
11 Q I'm sorry, you have to say yes or no.
12 A Yes, sorry.
13 Q Did you have any conversations, you personally,
14 have any conversations with Chief Freeman on the evening
15 of the fire?
16 A We -- Glenn and I both talked to him.
17 Q Were you present -- obviously, during the
18 conversations that you were engaged in you were present,
19 but were you present when Mr. Southard was speaking to
20 Chief Freeman?
21 A We were all there. I don't recall if the three
22 of us talked simultaneously. I do remember I was
23 wandering around looking at the maps. They had them set
24 up in the back of the Suburban, the big battalion chief,
25 and I don't recall any specifics of conversations.

60
1 Q So as you sit here today you recall no
2 specifics of any conversations that took place with Chief
3 Freeman on the evening of the fire, is that a fair
4 statement?
5 A That's a fair statement.
6 Q What was the reason, if there was a reason --
7 beyond curiosity, what was the reason why you were
8 looking at the maps?
9 A Just to see how the fire was burning --
10 curiosity.
11 Q Okay. Did you do anything else the night of
12 the fire that we haven't discussed already?
13 A That's all I recall.
14 Q I think you indicated, a little bit before,
15 that when you were walking your dog you felt it was windy
16 out. Do you know how fast the wind was traveling where
17 you were situated at the time you were walking your
18 dog?
19 A I don't.
20 Q Do you know if the wind was steady or gusting
21 at this time when you were walking the dog at that
22 location?
23 A Gusting.
24 Q Do you know in what direction these gusts were
25 coming from at the location where you were walking your

61
1 dog?
2 A No.
3 Q Now, I think you said we've covered the major
4 events for your work that night with respect to the fire,
5 or is there more to what you did after going to the
6 police station, going to the fire station, going to where
7 the community center had been set up? Did you do
8 anything else that night?
9 A At some point I went home and slept for a
10 couple hours.
11 Q Okay.
12 A Washed all that smoke off of me.
13 Q Did you speak to any of the residents of Palmer
14 Canyon or Via Padova after the fire?
15 A I did.
16 Q Do you recall what residents you spoke to?
17 A I recall one, Chris Condi (phonetic), she was a
18 friend.
19 Q Where did Chris -- where was Chris's home?
20 A Palmer Canyon.
21 Q And when did you speak with Chris?
22 A It was at the Hughes Center. I don't recall
23 what time it was. I do recall she knew at that point
24 that she had lost her home.
25 Q And so you had spoken to Chris on the night of

62
1 the fire, correct?
2 A It was the night of the fire or early the next
3 morning.
4 Q And do you recall -- as you sit here today, do
5 you recall the subject matter of that conversation?
6 A Just she said, "I lost my home, and I'm okay
7 and my daughter is okay." Shannon is her daughter.
8 Q Would it be fair to say that the context of the
9 conversation was more, from your standpoint, consoling
10 your friend for the loss of her home, that was the
11 subject matter, generally speaking?
12 A That's fair.
13 Q You weren't speaking to her in an official
14 capacity for the City of Claremont?
15 A No.
16 Q Do you recall speaking to any other residents
17 at any other time other than Ms. Condi on this one
18 occasion?
19 A Specifically one other, Dixie Allen, who lives
20 up in Claraboya.
21 Q What do you recall the nature of your
22 conversation having been with Ms. Allen?
23 A Her daughter is the director of my daughter's
24 theater group and her daughter had called her and said
25 her mother was having some insurance problems and we had

63
1 insurance carriers at the Hughes Center as part of our
2 one-stop.
3 Q So if we could characterize this conversation
4 it was more or less facilitating Ms. Allen's ability to
5 meet with her insurance carrier?
6 A Correct.
7 Q At the Hughes Center?
8 A Correct.
9 Q As you sit here today do you recall any other
10 conversations that you had with any fire victims?
11 A Not specifically.
12 Q When you say "Not specifically" are there bits
13 and pieces of conversations that you remember or are
14 there -- do you just know that you might have talked to
15 people but you can't remember what was said?
16 A Exactly, I know that I talked to people. I
17 don't remember what was said, lots of people there.
18 Q Did you ever communicate -- after the fire,
19 ever communicate with people who had lost their homes in
20 either Palmer Canyon or Via Padova? And by after the
21 fire, I mean after the first couple of day after the fire
22 having occurred?
23 A It's possible but I don't remember any
24 specifics.
25 Q As you sit here today do you have any

64
1 recollection of having acted in any official capacity on
2 behalf of the City of Claremont in connection with any
3 dealings with either people that had lived in Palmer
4 Canyon or Via Padova that had lost their homes in the
5 fire?
6 A No.
7 Q How long had you lived in the Claremont area
8 prior to moving to Indio?
9 A 28 years.
10 Q In the 28 years that you lived in Claremont did
11 you ever know a fire to enter Palmer Canyon, a
12 wildfire?
13 A There have been lots of fires. I'm not sure if
14 any have entered the canyon before.
15 Q In the 28 years that you lived in this area did
16 you ever know a wildfire to burn any homes in Via Padova
17 other than the Padua fire?
18 A Yes.
19 Q Which fire?
20 A Oh, God, which one was it. It would have been
21 in --
22 Q If you can't remember the name of the fire --
23 A I don't remember the name of the fire. It was
24 '93 or '94. I do remember that.
25 Q What do you recall about homes in Via Padova

65
1 burning in '93 or '94?
2 A There was some -- I believe some outhouses
3 burned up by the theater and further south, a couple
4 houses, I think.
5 Q Again, I'm not looking for you to guess.
6 A I don't really remember -- okay.
7 Q As I mentioned before, I think the best thing
8 we do here is stick to what you recall.
9 A Okay.
10 Q If you recall anything having burned in the Via
11 Padova area as a result of a wildfire before the Padua
12 fire we certainly want to know that, but I think
13 Mr. Richards would agree with me, we don't want you to
14 guess --
15 A Okay.
16 Q -- on what might have occurred if you don't
17 really know something. So do you know, as you sit here
18 today, whether any structures burned in the Via Padova
19 area prior to the Padua fire?
20 A For sure, the outhouses by the theater.
21 Q Okay. And when you're saying "outhouses" do
22 you mean outhouses in the way that I'm thinking of
23 outhouses?
24 A No, they were artesian huts, crafts, not that
25 kind of outhouse.
66
1 Q I'm thinking of something with a half moon on
2 it and I'm thinking why would they have that up there.
3 Okay, and you believe this --
4 MR. RICHARDS: We're more modern than that in
5 the City of Claremont.
6 MR. GROTEFELD: I'm impressed.
7 Q To the best of your recollection these
8 structures that were situated near the Padua Theater
9 burned in a fire that was sometime around '93 or '94?
10 A To the best of my recollection.
11 Q Do you know if that was simply a fire that
12 occurred up there or if that was something that was
13 related to a brush fire? In other words, a fire of other
14 cause.
16 Q Okay. You had a friend that lived in Palmer
17 Canyon. Did you ever visit her home?
18 A No.
19 Q Did you ever visit Palmer Canyon before the
20 Padua fire?
21 A Visit, no.
22 Q Did you ever drive up Palmer Canyon Road?
23 A Yes.
24 Q Was this for pleasure or business purposes or a
25 little of both?
67
1 A Both.
2 Q All right. What would have caused you to drive
3 up Palmer Canyon Road for business purposes prior to the
4 time of the Padua fire?
5 A Mark Hodnick and I went up there at one point
6 after the Williams Curve fire, the two fires in the
7 previous year, and there had been some flooding and he
8 and I went up there.
9 Q "Up there" meaning up into Palmer Canyon?
10 A Up into Palmer Canyon.
11 Q And the business purpose was what?
12 A Some of the residents were calling for
13 assistance because of the flooding and the mud.
14 Q And your purpose of going up to Palmer Canyon
15 was what?
16 A To meet with the residents.
17 Q Did you meet with the residents?
18 A We met with some residents, some didn't want us
19 there.
20 Q When you say some didn't want you there, how do
21 you know that?
22 A Because they pretty much told us they didn't
23 want us there. We had some serving cookies and others
24 saying get out of our canyon.
25 Q Do you recall the names of anybody that said

68
1 "get out of our canyon"?
2 A I don't.
3 Q Do you remember what they looked like?
4 A No.
5 Q Men or women, young or old?
6 A Women brought cookies and there were -- I don't
7 recall.
8 Q Okay. What did you do after visiting Palmer
9 Canyon relative to this flooding issue after the Williams
10 fire?
11 A Mark made arrangements for some bobcats to do
12 some basic mud clearing so the folks could get in and out
13 of their driveways.
14 Q And when you say Mark made arrangements for
15 bobcats were these City of Claremont pieces of equipment
16 or do you know if these were contracted out from another
17 source?
18 A Contracted.
19 Q And do you know the entity that provided this
20 service?
22 Q Do you know if any other work was performed by
23 the City of Claremont relative to this Williams fire,
24 post-Williams fire flooding issue, other than bobcat
25 removal of some of the debris from the flooding?

69
1 A Not that I recall.
2 Q Did you go up to Palmer Canyon after the
3 bobcats had been there to inspect the work?
4 A No.
5 Q Do you know if Mark Hodnick did?
6 A I don't know.
7 Q Do you know what areas were cleared of mud?
8 A It was the lower part.
9 Q Okay, so it -- as you're driving into the
10 canyon you're speaking of the area of the canyon that you
11 first enter into if you're driving up the roadway?
12 A The down part.
13 Q The lower elevation part of the canyon?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Okay. And was the area that was cleared the
16 road?
17 A I don't know.
18 Q Okay. Other than visiting Palmer Canyon on
19 that one occasion to talk to the residents along with
20 Mr. Hodnick about this post Williams fire flooding issue
21 did you ever visit Palmer Canyon for any other official
22 business purpose?
23 A No.
24 Q Did you ever for any recreational purposes go
25 up to Palmer Canyon before the Padua fire?

70
1 A No.
2 Q After the Padua fire have you ever been up to
3 Palmer Canyon since the fire?
4 A Yes.
5 Q How many times?
6 A Once.
7 Q When was that?
8 A It would have been Christmas when -- my
9 daughter was in college in New York and kept calling and
10 saying, "Mom, all of California is on fire," and when she
11 came home at Christmas I drove her up there.
12 Q So it would be Christmas 2003?
13 A Yes.
14 Q How far up the canyon road were you able to
15 drive?
16 A Not very.
17 Q Did you get out and walk or did you just turn
18 around?
19 A No, just turned around.
20 Q What was the reason you showed your daughter
21 Palmer Canyon as opposed to some other area?
22 A Well, we went to Palmer Canyon, we went to Via
23 Padova, we went up to Claraboya, just to show her the
24 extent of the damage.
25 Q Have we now discussed all of the times that you

71
1 visited Palmer Canyon in your 28 years of living in the
2 area?
3 A Yes.
4 Q Now, you mentioned that you did some hiking in
5 Palmer Canyon -- excuse me, in --
6 A Well, not --
7 Q I misspoke. You mentioned you did some hiking
8 in the Claremont Hills Wilderness Park, and I think you
9 indicated to us before, while your goal was to walk about
10 once a week it was about once a month you walked through
11 the canyon, correct?
12 A Well, not the canyon. It was the five-mile
13 loop.
14 Q Five-mile loop within the wilderness park?
15 A Yes.
16 Q And that's -- is that a maintained path that
17 you walked on?
18 A It's a fire road.
19 Q And that's a maintained road? In other words,
20 it's not just brush growing over the road but it is a
21 path that people can walk on?
22 A Yeah, it's a fire road.
23 Q And that five-mile path takes you where in the
24 park?
25 A Like that.
72
1 Q So it's a big loop?
2 A It's a big loop, yeah, and you can go in either
3 side and just do a five-mile loop.
4 Q Is there an area where you typically entered
5 into the park when you did this walk?
6 A At the top of Mills Avenue.
7 Q And there's a parking lot there, isn't there?
8 A Yes.
9 Q And that parking lot was created by Claremont
10 after Claremont acquired the wilderness park, correct?
11 A Yes.
12 Q And that path, was that path something that was
13 created after Claremont had acquired the park or was that
14 already there, if you know?
15 A I don't know.
16 Q Do you know if Claremont maintained aspects of
17 that path for purposes --
18 A I don't know.
19 Q When you walked this path -- I take it it was
20 for relaxation and exercise and all those good things --
21 did you have an opportunity to, over the years, take a
22 look at the vegetation that was in the park?
23 A I saw the vegetation, yes.
24 Q As you sit here today is there anything that
25 sticks out in your mind about the vegetation, one way or

73
1 the other, as it existed in the park?
2 A No, the park looked different after the
3 Williams Curve fire.
4 Q When you say the park looked different after
5 the Williams Curve fire are you speaking of the northern
6 boundaries of the park?
7 A The views.
8 Q I'm sorry?
9 A The views when you're walking.
10 Q Okay. To the best of your knowledge did the
11 Williams fire actually enter into any aspect of the
12 Claremont Hills Wilderness Park?
14 Q So when you say the Williams fire affected the
15 park are you talking about, at least from your
16 perspective, as you walk through the park your vistas
17 looking up into the mountains were not as pretty as they
18 were before the fire?
19 A Correct.
20 Q Anything else that you recall about the
21 vegetation state that stuck out to you in your own
22 mind?
23 A No.
24 Q At any time when you were walking through the
25 park did you ever see brush clearance occurring?

74
1 A No.
2 Q At any time you walked through the park did you
3 ever see workers of any kind in the park?
4 A No.
5 Q Do you ever see a ranger?
6 A The Claremont park ranger?
7 Q Yes.
8 A Yes.
9 Q Is that ranger an employee of the city?
10 A Yes.
11 Q Do you know who this individual -- do you know
12 this individual by name?
13 A The current person, I have no idea.
14 Q Did you at some time know any of them by
15 name?
16 A One.
17 Q Who was that?
18 A Stevens, I can't remember her first name. I
19 have a face. I hate getting old.
20 Q We were talking about that last night; it beats
21 the alternative.
22 A Yeah. It will come to me -- Stevens.
23 Q Okay. Was this just a casual knowledge of this
24 person or did you know Ms. Stevens through some business
25 aspects of your role as assistant city manager?

75
1 A Not any more than any other employee.
2 Q Do you know when the last time it was that you
3 hiked the park prior to the Padua fire?
4 A I have no idea.
5 Q Did you make these hikes every month or --
6 A Pretty much.
7 Q Okay. Even in the heat of summer?
8 A Early in the morning.
9 Q Okay. Have we now discussed all the
10 conversations that you recall having with residents of
11 Via Padova or Palmer Canyon that would have occurred
12 after the Padua fire?
13 A Yes.
14 MR. GROTEFELD: I don't have anything further
15 of you.
16 THE WITNESS: Okay, thank you.
17 MR. GROTEFELD: I believe your signature
18 issue -- you're going to reserve signature?
19 MR. RICHARDS: Oh, half the time we do the
20 stipulation and half the time we don't. Let me propose
21 the following California stipulation. We'll relieve the
22 court reporter of her requirements under the code and
23 we'll agree to waive notary and allow the witness to sign
24 under penalty of perjury. The original will be sent to
25 me and I'll arrange for the witness to sign it and I'll

76
1 advise counsel of the signature and any changes that are
2 made to the transcript within 30 days after I receive it.
3 In the event that the original is not available at the
4 time of trial or for any other purpose related to this
5 litigation we agree that the certified copy can be
6 used.
7 MR. GROTEFELD: Very good.
8 MR. RICHARDS: That's my job at these depos,
9 right?
10 ///
11 ///
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1
6 I, BRIDGET HEALY, do hereby declare under
7 penalty of perjury that I have read the foregoing
8 transcript; that I have made any corrections as appear
9 noted, in ink, initialed by me, or attached hereto; that
10 my testimony as contained herein, as corrected, is true
11 and correct.
12 EXECUTED this _____ day of _______________, 20____,
13 at______________________, ________________.
(City) (State)
14
15
16
_________________________
17 BRIDGET HEALY
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1
3 I, the undersigned, a Certified Shorthand
4 Reporter for the State of California do hereby certify:
5 That the foregoing proceedings were taken
6 before me at the time and place herein set forth; that any
7 witnesses in the foregoing proceedings, prior to
8 testifying were placed under oath; that a verbatim record
9 of the proceedings was made by me using machine shorthand
10 which was thereafter transcribed under my direction;
11 further, that the foregoing is an accurate transcription
12 thereof.
13 I further certify that I am neither
14 financially interested in the action nor a relative or
15 employee of any attorney of any of the parties.
16 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have this date
17 subscribed my name.
18
19 Dated: _________________________
20
21
22 ____________________________________
RAMONA LUX
23 CSR No. 12846
24
25

Bridget Healy Deposition Jan 13 2006

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Bridget Healy Deposition Jan 13 2006

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1

1 SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA

2 COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES, EAST DISTRICT

4 JANICE BASSETT, et al.,

6 vs. No. KC 045147 H

7 CITY OF CLAREMONT, et al.,

14 DEPOSITION OF BRIDGET HEALY

16 Friday, January 13, 2006

23 Job No. 42428

1 SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA

2 COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES, EAST DISTRICT

4 JANICE BASSETT, et al.,

6 vs. No. KC 045147 H

7 CITY OF CLAREMONT, et al.,

16 Deposition of BRIDGET HEALY, taken on behalf of

17 Plaintiffs, at 207 Harvard Avenue, Claremont, California,

18 beginning at 9:52 a.m. and ending at 11:35 a.m. on

19 Friday, January 13, 2006, before RAMONA LUX, Certified

20 Shorthand Reporter No. 12846.

4 GROTEFELD & DENENBERG, LLP

8 For Defendant City of Claremont:

9 KUTAK ROCK LLP

10 1 E-mails between Bridget Healy and Craig 39

1 Claremont, California, Friday, January 13, 2006

2 9:52 a.m. - 11:35 a.m.

5 having been administered an oath, was examined and

10 Q Ma'am would you state your name and please

11 spell your name for our court reporter.

12 A Bridget, B-r-i-d-g-e-t, my last name is Healy,

14 Q Let the record reflect that this is the

15 deposition of Bridget Healy taken pursuant, on today's

16 date, by notice and actually set on today's date by

17 agreement of the parties on this Friday the 13th. So

18 Ms. Healy, my name is Mark Grotefeld. I am one of the

19 attorneys for the plaintiffs who have brought a lawsuit

20 against the City of Claremont with respect to damage to

21 their homes and other damages associated with the Padua

22 fires of October 2003. I'm going to be asking you

23 questions today relative to your work experience in the

24 city of Claremont and perhaps some other general

25 knowledge you may have about circumstances related to the

1 fire. If I ask you any question during the course of

2 this deposition that you don't understand, by all means

3 let me know. I can be convoluted at times, so just let

4 me know if you don't understand the question and I'll be

5 glad to rephrase it, but if you don't ask me to do that

6 it's going to be assumed that you understood the question

7 as I phrased it. Fair enough?

9 Q You have to say yes or no, too, that's another

11 word. She cannot take down gestures or phrases like you

12 just made. If you make that phrase during the course of

13 the deposition, I'm not trying to correct your English,

14 I'm simply trying to help preserve a record here. Fair

17 Q All right, and lastly, if for some reason you

18 don't hear the question or you want the question repeated

19 we can do that as well. So just let us know. Otherwise,

20 if you don't ask, we're going to operate on the

21 assumption that you heard the question and you understood

22 the question in answering. Fair enough?

24 Q All right. This -- your deposition will be

25 something -- and I believe you've met with counsel ahead

1 of time before this deposition took place -- he may have

2 instructed you or told about this, but if you make