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Step 6: Fabricating the basic GEK . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11 Step 7: Assembling the GEK and preparing for fire . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12 Step 8: Proof of concept testing: first fire . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15 Step 9: Prep the Honda Trunk Mount . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 16 Step 10: Fabricate a frame for the gasifier . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 17 Step 11: Install the cyclone . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 18 Step 12: Install the grate, jigglerator, and dump ports . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 19 Step 13: Air Intake With Butterfly Valve . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 20 Step 14: Syngas Piping from gasifier in back to engine in front . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 22 Step 15: Solid Fuel Auger - Not Used In Current Design . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 23 Step 16: GEK Reactor Modifications and Instrumentation . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 25 Step 17: Reactor Control Unit (RCU) - aka "THE BRAIN 2" . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 27 Step 18: Cockpit . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 30 Step 19: Final GEK reassembly for Honda . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 30 Step 20: Blow-off and output syngas valves . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 32 Step 21: Load Solid Fuel and Ignition! . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 32 Step 22: Ready! . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 34 Step 23: GO! 88MPH here we come . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 34 Step 24: Assembly with auger - Not used in current design . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 37 Step 25: More Information . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 37 Related Instructables . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 38 Comments . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 38
http://www.instructables.com/id/Convert-your-Honda-Accord-to-run-on-trash/
This is a really big project! We split the project into several Instructables to make it easier to understand. This instructable explains how to retrofit a Honda Accord (or nearly any car) with our open source Gasifier Experimenter's Kit (GEK) to power it. In this project we cover modifications to the standard GEK Gasifier that are needed, details specific to its installation into the Honda, and modifications to the Honda itself. All standard GEK Gasifier construction and operation details are covered in the sub-projects below. You can also check out the home site, with updated instructions, CAD files and pictures since the Instructable below. Check the Building the GEK Instructable to learn how to fabricate the standard GEK gasifier vessels. Check the Assembling the GEK Instructable to learn how to assemble the GEK vessels into a working GEK Gasifier Check the Running the GEK Instructable to learn how to start and operate the GEK to produce syngas. For more info and extra pictures about this project, see the main GEK site. For general information on how gasification works, see: Gasification Basics To learn about ALL Power Labs, the group that created the Trash Powered Honda and the Open Source Gasifier Experimenter's Kit, check our website: ALL Power Labs Inspired? Check out our No Petroleum Allowed Road Rally, the Escape From Berkeley.
http://www.instructables.com/id/Convert-your-Honda-Accord-to-run-on-trash/
Image Notes 1. We're off on yet another tool and supplies run!
http://www.instructables.com/id/Convert-your-Honda-Accord-to-run-on-trash/
http://www.instructables.com/id/Convert-your-Honda-Accord-to-run-on-trash/
Image Notes 1. not required, but very convenient! 2. MIG setups 3. MIG
Image Notes 1. CNC Plasma Cutter - Our favorite toy! You could make do with a cutting torch...
Image Notes 1. hopper 2. hopper 3. auger motor (not used) 4. reactor core 5. housing 6. not required, but really convenient
http://www.instructables.com/id/Convert-your-Honda-Accord-to-run-on-trash/
Step 3: Safety
There are a lot of potential dangers with this project. We recommend you always have a responsible adult present when building your Trash Powered Honda.
Cars are big! Heavy! And have lots of moving parts that can squash or grind you up! Gasifiers produce gases which are very good for engines, but very bad for humans. Thus please remember the following whenever you run a gasifer Warning: A gasifier is a dangerous thermo-chemical device. Like most useful tools, it will do damage if used incorrectly. A gasifier purposely generates carbon monoxide and other dangerous volatile organic gases as an interim step before complete combustion of the gas in a flare or engine. Acute exposure to carbon monoxide can be harmful or fatal. It is colorless, odorless, and will quickly colonize your hemoglobin, leaving no sites left for oxygen to land. Exposure to other VOCs is similarly problematic. In short, it is somewhat like smoking cigarettes, just exponentially worse. In fact, a cigarette is an updraft gasifier, a close cousin to what you are building in steel with the GEK So dont be an idiot. Don't smoke. And certainly don't smoke the equivalent of 100 cigarettes simultaneously by breathing in any leaking gas from your GEK. Always use a gasifier outdoors, and with extensive ventilation. Always stay out of the smoke and/or produced gas before it is combusted. Know that this is NOT typical campfire smoke. Do NOT treat it as if it were. The carbon monoxide concentrations in gasifier gas are higher than in other "smokes". You can get in trouble quickly, usually before you realize it. SO STAY OUT OF GASIFIER GAS AT ALL TIMES. Always have a fast reacting carbon monoxide meter in the area where you are working. Ideally, hang one on a tether around your neck. Carbon monoxide meters are available at more hardware stores in the smoke detector section. And remember that with just one extra oxygen, CO becomes CO2. It is a very easy oxidation pathway, thus why syngas burns so cleanly. Anyone have a Prius we can challenge at the smog shop?
http://www.instructables.com/id/Convert-your-Honda-Accord-to-run-on-trash/
http://www.instructables.com/id/Convert-your-Honda-Accord-to-run-on-trash/
http://www.instructables.com/id/Convert-your-Honda-Accord-to-run-on-trash/
Image Notes 1. scrap tanks are a convenient source for the GEK Gasifier cowlings
http://www.instructables.com/id/Convert-your-Honda-Accord-to-run-on-trash/
Image Notes 1. You can also use the GEK as a top-hat. Very stylish!
http://www.instructables.com/id/Convert-your-Honda-Accord-to-run-on-trash/
http://www.instructables.com/id/Convert-your-Honda-Accord-to-run-on-trash/
http://www.instructables.com/id/Convert-your-Honda-Accord-to-run-on-trash/
For the standard GEK: the gas cowling, reactor and hopper bolt together into a single vertical assembly. The cyclone, packed bed filter and blower similarly bolt together into a single vertical assembly. These two assemblies attach together via the gas outlet flange to the cyclone. A soft hose attaches the blower to the swirl burner. And then, fire! The details of how to accomplish this require another "slight Instructable detour", though we promise not to send you through the ringers of previous. You're now through the hard part. It's all downhill coasting from here to 88MPH. Click here for the GEK final assembly and first firing preparation instructable.
http://www.instructables.com/id/Convert-your-Honda-Accord-to-run-on-trash/
http://www.instructables.com/id/Convert-your-Honda-Accord-to-run-on-trash/
Here's the separate Instructible for how to start and run a GEK design gasifierstart and run a GEK design gasifier.
Image Notes 1. 2kw 4-stroke generator 2. 100 watt bulb powered by generator 3. syngas tube into the generator intake 4. GEK Gasifier 5. prototype of our Reactor Control Unit 6. laptop for sensor data display from RCU
http://www.instructables.com/id/Convert-your-Honda-Accord-to-run-on-trash/
Image Notes 1. frame strut 2. GEK will mount to this pin, and 2nd one on the opposite side
http://www.instructables.com/id/Convert-your-Honda-Accord-to-run-on-trash/
2. a sliding pin fits here, without the pin we can rotate the GEK for maintenance, then put in the pin to lock in place for driving
http://www.instructables.com/id/Convert-your-Honda-Accord-to-run-on-trash/
Image Notes 1. standard GEK cyclone, the condensate catch at the bottom is just shaped a bit differently. 2. this handle locks/unlocks the gek into the rotating pin mounts
http://www.instructables.com/id/Convert-your-Honda-Accord-to-run-on-trash/
http://www.instructables.com/id/Convert-your-Honda-Accord-to-run-on-trash/
Image Notes 1. windshield wiper moter 2. plate 1 3. plate 2 - with holes to fit the screw heads 4. drive shaft for the grate
Image Notes 1. the gek cowling must be airtight, so we used this high-temp fiber as a bearing/airlock
Image Notes 1. 2nd plate stacked on top, its all flush now
Image Notes 1. drive socket for the grate. its quite literally a hex socket that we welded to the grate drive shaft 2. access plate for dumping ash 3. bottom of GEK hopper/box 4. tar dump port at bottom of cyclone catch
http://www.instructables.com/id/Convert-your-Honda-Accord-to-run-on-trash/
Image Notes 1. open end of air intake 2. standard high power hobby servo 3. set up the control linkage so that the servo can go end-to-end without bending anything.
http://www.instructables.com/id/Convert-your-Honda-Accord-to-run-on-trash/
Image Notes 1. air intake from Honda 2. add a TEE 3. syngas tube goes to back of car 4. rubber coupler 5. our new air intake with servo-controlled butterfly valve
Image Notes 1. the syngas tube on the bottom of the engine - it connects to a metal pipe that runs the length of the underbody
Image Notes 1. syngas tube goes up to the GEK output port 2. steel syngas tube goes from back to front of the car 3. GEK box 4. right rear tire
http://www.instructables.com/id/Convert-your-Honda-Accord-to-run-on-trash/
Image Notes 1. right rear wheel 2. syngas tube going to GEK output 3. front to rear steel syngas tube 4. GEK box
http://www.instructables.com/id/Convert-your-Honda-Accord-to-run-on-trash/
Image Notes 1. this part feeds the fuel into the bottom of the auger by gravity 2. auger design #1
Image Notes 1. fuel goes in. or not. depending on whether its your lucky day.
Image Notes 1. fuel enters at this end 2. auger moves fuel up this tube
http://www.instructables.com/id/Convert-your-Honda-Accord-to-run-on-trash/
3. fuel drops down this tube into open maw of GEK reactor 4. auger motor 5. load solid biomass fuel in here
Image Notes 1. larger reduction bell than the standard GEK 2. we didn't end up using this port
Image Notes 1. thermocouples enter the sealed portion of the reactor here. seal this off with
http://www.instructables.com/id/Convert-your-Honda-Accord-to-run-on-trash/
silicone glue 2. bendable 1/8" stainless clad thermocouples from Omega, about $25 each. 3. 1/4" stainless tube welded through the cowling walls, thermocouple goes through the tube. high temp furnace cement seals the hole
Image Notes 1. thermocouple to top of reduction bell. 2. thermocouple with tip fed into the air intake 3. thermocouple tip at height of the air intake (top of combustion zone) 4. thermocouple at bottom of reduction bell
Image Notes 1. drilled a hole into the air intake and inserted thermocouple 2. 1/4" stainless tubing welded through the GEK wall, the thermocouple itself is 1/8" stainless and feeds through the tube. 3. tip of thermocouple just pokes out 4. standard GEK air intakes 5. didn't use this
Image Notes 1. finished reactor - standard GEK with the small changes we noted
http://www.instructables.com/id/Convert-your-Honda-Accord-to-run-on-trash/
Step 17: Reactor Control Unit (RCU) - aka "THE BRAIN 2"
Any modern car has an Electronic Control Unit, or ECU, which monitors and controls the engine function and keeps everything working. It is often called the Brain of the car. One of the Honda ECU's main functions is to properly inject gasoline into the engine, and monitor the fuel/air mix. Since we are doing some Serious Monkeying Around with both of those pathways in order to replace the gasoline with our Gasifier produced syngas, we built our own Reactor Control Unit (RCU) - also known as THE BRAIN 2. The RCU taps into the Honda ECU to bypass its control of the fuel injectors and fuel/air mix. It also has several other functions: - Sense if the fuel mix is lean or rich. We use the existing oxygen sensor from the Honda and access it where it connects to the Honda ECU (Honda's stock ECU is their brain for running the car). - Control our new fuel/air mix butterfly valve. We drive a servo from a dial mounted on the dash. We also have a switch on the dash that can toggle between Manual fuel/air mix control, and Automatic fuel/air mix control. In Auto mode our RCU uses a closed-loop feedback to automatically adjust the air/fuel mix, just like the Honda ECU does when running on gasoline. - A control for the grate jigglerator motor (fuel unclogging system) - A sensing and control loop for steam injection into the gasifier, when there is adequate heat. The GEK in the this Honda has a variety of heat recycling systems which result in a surplus of heat in the gasifier, heat which can be usefully consumed via more steam over the glowing char in the reactor, and thus a more hydrogen rich gas output. - A solid fuel level sensor and auger motor control. Not used in the current non-auger design. - A USB connection to a laptop, we send all the sensor data to the laptop to display it. The Co-pilot can check the readings on all the instrumentation - thermocouples, pressure sensors, oxygen sensor, and all the motors can be activated manually by the copilot. - A switch to disable or enable the electronic fuel injection. we again tapped into the Honda ECU for this.
Our Reactor Control Unit is built with a SiLabs 8051 devkit with a custom expansion board plugged to it. There are 12 thermocouple jacks, 4 pressure sensors, 4 30-amp H-bridges for motor drive, a USB connection for a data display laptop, etc....
Image Notes 1. Our custom Reactor Control Unit. The blue PCB is a SiLabs 8051 devkit, the green one is our expansion board
http://www.instructables.com/id/Convert-your-Honda-Accord-to-run-on-trash/
Image Notes 1. pressure port in the side of the GEK box, it is ported into the side of the GEK cowling. 2. Reactor Control Unit mounted under rear window
Image Notes 1. Honda ECU located under driver seat. We're trying to figure out where we can tap into the oxygen sensor and fuel injector 2. inductive signal tracer is very handy
http://www.instructables.com/id/Convert-your-Honda-Accord-to-run-on-trash/
http://www.instructables.com/id/Convert-your-Honda-Accord-to-run-on-trash/
Image Notes 1. air/fuel mix dial, and auto/manual switch 2. sensor and actuator state display
Image Notes 1. hopper 2. hopper 3. auger motor (not used) 4. reactor core 5. housing 6. not required, but really convenient
http://www.instructables.com/id/Convert-your-Honda-Accord-to-run-on-trash/
http://www.instructables.com/id/Convert-your-Honda-Accord-to-run-on-trash/
Image Notes 1. cut-off for fuel gas going to the Honda engine 2. cut-off for fuel gas going to the blow-off 3. blow-off cyclone burner
http://www.instructables.com/id/Convert-your-Honda-Accord-to-run-on-trash/
http://www.instructables.com/id/Convert-your-Honda-Accord-to-run-on-trash/
If you like our Mr Fusion, please remember to vote for us in the Craftsman Workshop of the Future contest. Vote now using the "vote now" button at the top. Maybe we can win back half the tools we lost making this . . .
http://www.instructables.com/id/Convert-your-Honda-Accord-to-run-on-trash/
Image Notes 1. We're off on yet another tool and supplies run!
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http://www.instructables.com/id/Convert-your-Honda-Accord-to-run-on-trash/
http://www.instructables.com/id/Convert-your-Honda-Accord-to-run-on-trash/
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Comments
50 comments Add Comment view all 245 comments
danielemur says:
Mar 15, 2011. 7:29 PM REPLY Is there any cost difference if one were not to mount it to a car, but rather to use it on its own for things such as a small generator? Also, is there any item in this project that costs significantly more than the other parts, and if so how much does it cost? Thanks! Great instructable!
gibsoncrazed14 says:
the car reminds me of the car from back to the future. nice work
reldeyecart says:
Great Scott! this screams zombie apocalypse. in a world where gas stations are empty, you can dispose of corpses and get 20 mpg doing it
http://www.instructables.com/id/Convert-your-Honda-Accord-to-run-on-trash/
h3x_your_nightmare says:
Jan 29, 2011. 7:05 AM REPLY i don't know if i'm repeating...but this idea it's a lil bit oldie :D i mean the gasseification idea. i've seen on discovery channel or national geographic this idea was used in norway and sweden for trucks used by loggers. instead of trash they used wood chips :D so search on google and you can find some documentation for improving your system :D sorry for my bad grammar :D i'm from Romania ;)
kibukun says:
Aug 11, 2010. 10:59 AM REPLY Nice work, can you make it more compact? I mean, if shortw is right. you might be ocught and tried for that. If you make it compact, Nobody will notice it.
skaar says:
Jan 25, 2011. 6:22 AM REPLY horizontal hopper maybe, angled filter. if it does the job, a smaller gas tank for emergencies, and the unit dropped through the floor...
someguy411 says:
Jul 25, 2010. 1:35 PM REPLY Would it plausible to have an off board syn gas generator, and merely have a compressed syn gas container in the car? other than the high combustability, and hazards thereof, im merely suggesting could this concept "hold water" ? just like the propane powered vehicles. or is the rate of syn gas consumption so high that it is neccesary to have the source literally in the trunk of your car? just curious
drhamel69 says:
Aug 29, 2010. 7:20 AM REPLY Any comments on this? Becuase this was exactly my thought. I have googled storing woodgas/syngas and really don't come up with much.
skaar says:
Jan 25, 2011. 6:20 AM REPLY the buses, in ww2, double deckers, had to, in many cases, fill a bladder that took the entire upper deck, i think that ran it for most of the day, but, there's calculations... 7lb wood~=1gal gas, when wood is converted to woodgas, how big does it get? to what ratio can it be compressed? at what ratio would it need to be, combined gas, tank and valves, for it to be smaller than a 7lb block of wood? better yet, are home hobbyist compressors capable of filling a tank to that level? then there's the fuel rate, 30miles per block, would, beside being kinda low, be .23lb/mile, how big is that in woodgas? just some questions that might get some thought.
theexpert says:
i wonder if i could use this for a electricity generator >:) creativity sparks hey lets use my mind wait wait no dont put me in that NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
skaar says:
one of the most common modern applications for the technology.
gidian says:
Jan 19, 2011. 9:25 AM REPLY would it be possible to incorporate the exhaust from the engine around the auger or hopper in order to save that excess energy by drying the fuel? or perhaps if their is some way to use the CO continually in the GEK process it could prove beneficial? i'm just in high school and i have plenty of metal fab experience, so when i stumbled upon these designs i was instantly absorbed and fascinated. i am trying to design a Gasifier to turn a single cab s-10 into one of these bio-cars, and im pretty low budget so everything counts
011289 says:
Great instructable,,,now all you have to do is add a flux capacitor :D
Pe-ads says:
My thoughts entirely!
TimmyMiller says:
what about putting it on a RV
bttfdelorean says:
what about putting it on a delorean
http://www.instructables.com/id/Convert-your-Honda-Accord-to-run-on-trash/
pgd5000 says:
This makes me think of an oversized version of the thing on the Delorian in Back to the Future 2.
hintss says:
the Mr. Fusion?
hipermen100 says:
from where you get trash if you burn all it
phantom444e says:
Great instructable,I have seen photos of cars and trucks in Europe during wwII using something similar to this.
AlternateLives says:
In some of those pictures, it almost looks like the Gasifier is "obstructing the view of the driver" can you see around that thing? also, it could be cool to do this to a truck. make it look "dieselpunk" or "industrial" or something...
TheSilverSerpent says:
May 9, 2010. 3:52 PM REPLY If this has existed since WW2, then why don't we see more cars using this or this being suggested as a answer to the carbon emission problems?
dman762000 says:
Jul 25, 2010. 1:30 PM REPLY Actually the carbon emission problems wouldn't be solved. There is just as much carbon in the trash you would burn as there is in gasoline. It would be a bit different but probably be just as much carbon going into the air. The other bad stuff in gas would be gone though, depending, of course, on what you burned in the syngas generator.
Narlo11 says:
Sep 12, 2010. 1:24 PM REPLY Its carbon neutral. Since wood and organic matter decompose over time it releases such gas and this just speeds up the process. Wood stoves are cabon neutral as well. The tree uses Co2 to live and when dead it releases the equivalent amount/ Aug 20, 2010. 8:11 PM REPLY If you bottled the exhaust from this project you could pump it in to An Algae Bio-reactor (As seen in below link ) and run two vehcles on the same carbon there for halving emissions. http://www.instructables.com/id/An-Algae-Bioreactor-from-Recycled-Water-Bottles/ Jul 26, 2010. 10:29 AM REPLY What he means by carbon neutral is that he isn't adding any extra Carbon to the atmosphere. If it is all organic waste, then it just outputs what it took in. Jul 25, 2010. 4:58 PM REPLY the carbon from gasoline is from the ground and goes to the air. while a gassier takes carbon from the air to make biomass and then returns it to the air for no net increase.
kingmii says:
Relkin says:
catprog says:
none says:
Jul 26, 2010. 12:24 PM REPLY This is wrong. The *gassifier takes carbon from the fuel. The difference between using gasoline and trash is that trash would normally go to a landfill and gasoline has to be mined, refined, processed, and transported.
catprog says:
and the carbon in the gassifer fuel came from the air. while in gasoline the carbon came from the earth
dingledick666 says:
Oct 20, 2010. 9:21 PM REPLY Petroleum is fossilize biomass containing trapped carbon. Trash is new biomass containing trapped carbon. The only difference is that this burns new biomass rather than old. Both release carbon and many other harmful emissions.
skaar says:
there's a simple question, how long does the carbon in the fuel take, to return to prefuel state? if there's plastic in the trash, it's about the same as gasoline, which takes millions of years. with wood, a few decades. farm waste that was grasses or seeds, a year, if there's multiple crops, averages to half a year. algae, depending on the continuous production capability, maybe a few weeks or a month.
the goal is to make the recovery time lower, not to whine about petroleum being the same carbon as in the trash... of course it's the same, but there's millions of years difference there.
http://www.instructables.com/id/Convert-your-Honda-Accord-to-run-on-trash/
Questor says:
Jul 25, 2010. 10:24 AM REPLY The gasification process was originally developed in the 1800s to produce town gas for lighting and cooking. Electricity and natural gas later replaced town gas for these applications, but the gasification process has been utilized for the production of synthetic chemicals and fuels since the 1920s. Wood gas generators, called Gasogene or Gazogne, were used to power motor vehicles in Europe during World War II fuel shortages Jul 25, 2010. 9:20 AM REPLY "If this has existed since WW2" What do you mean "if"? Why is it so hard to comprehend that it has occurred to others in the last 500 years to explore technology alternatives in their era when faced with scarcity of supply of standard solutions? The word "hubris" comes to mind. I respectfully submit that you crack a book; do some research. The reason you don't see this tech in use is it is a very inefficient process. You have to heat the material to get the syngas out and that heating process costs a lot. We don't see steam powered trains or cars for nearly the exact same reason. Our current gasoline/diesel refining infrastructure is far far far more efficient. But technology like this does come into its own when that infrastructure is unavailable, but that doesn't mean the cost of using it drops. In short, if you relied on this technology with the same household budget, you'd be taking a lot fewer car rides. The prices of products in any economy transporting goods using steam/syngas technology would cost far more. Shipping a package via UPS would be a luxury. The number of poor people would increase quite a bit I'd estimate as prices rose. But to have these technologies available in a pinch as a stopgap would have a definite coolness factor. Which is exactly the role they played in the WWII era. One might ask why we don't ride horses anymore also as the answer would dovetail with the above quite a bit.
mgalyean says:
TheSilverSerpent says:
Jul 25, 2010. 6:10 PM REPLY Hubris= Overbearing pride or arrogance. Thanks a lot, mgalyean, however I must point out that that isn't a very respectable answer. However you did answer my question so I thank you for that, and respectfully implore you to take a page from the three who answered before you who did so with a little more consideration to someone a little more naive than them. Jul 25, 2010. 5:13 PM REPLY according to www.veva.bc.ca/wtw/Tesla_20060719.pdf Second, we know that production of the gas and its transportation to the gas station is on average 81.7% efficient, for a total of 0.28 km/MJ for a Toyota Camry. What is the equivalent for a gassifer?
catprog says:
milesfromneihu says:
Aug 22, 2010. 3:44 AM REPLY My great uncle was in Germany just after WWII, and he used to tell me about these gasifier cars. He said he'd be driving (in his US-made limo, with real gasoline) on a road through a long stretch of woods and come across places where people had run out of fuel, stopped and chopped down a tree (presumably a dead one), and proceeded on their way. Jul 11, 2010. 12:12 PM REPLY Very interesting and exiting project. But I think it is not legal to drive it on public roads. Every part on the car has to be DOT approved ( department of transportation ). Messing with and/ or disabling part or whole of the emission control system that a car came out with is a federal crime. Then what about inspection? You better check with your state and federal laws before you do it. Laws changed a lot the last 70 years. I am all for it and considered to build a gasifier for a back-up generator, but I just don't like folks to convert there cars over and then they have to find out that there time, money and car they spend was for nothing and that all of it may end up in a junk yard.
shortw says:
Skyfinity says:
I seriously doubt the author is worried about this.
CaffeineHouse says:
so installing an aftermarket exhaust is a federal crime... sure.
shortw says:
Jul 27, 2010. 5:54 PM REPLY Don't mislead readers with a comment like this. What is a aftermarket product? ( in your case a exhaust ) A aftermarket product is not endorsed, manufactured or sold by a car manufacture. A aftermarket product may or may not be an exact copy of the original. If a car manufacture still has a patent on it, which I believe is for 7 years, then the aftermarket product has to be 10% different ( size, thickness, material, shape etc.. ) . After 7 years if the patent defaulted, anyone can make an exact copy of it. And most aftermarket products for cars are still DOT approved and are legal to use. Of course there are some exceptions, but then it is usually sold as ' off-road use only' or it will state ' not DOT approved ' , or it was bought straight from China or Asia as a counterfeit. Aftermarket products will not have a car manufacture logo ( trademark ) on it.
ac1D says:
About the dot thing. Putting a tree air fresheners in your car make it illegal to drive. Lmao
y2kkmac says:
Jul 25, 2010. 11:34 AM REPLY I think this is more modifying a fuel supply than the emissions. Theoretically, you can take any natural gas vehicle, remove the tank, plug in a gasifier, and not have to touch anything else.
skaar says:
Jan 25, 2011. 6:27 AM REPLY which is perfectly legal, as it's legal to take a gasoline car and convert to propane or natgas. the only thing with that, is that the tanks have to follow the pressure vessel laws. there may be some laws that apply to gassifiers, but not the kind that would prevent someone from converting to woodgas. the dot is concerned with devices that make the vehicle unsafe, which means, it's probably illegal to put the fuel delivery hose... on the bottom, but it also can't be big enough to block vision when it goes down the a pillar, from the roof.
http://www.instructables.com/id/Convert-your-Honda-Accord-to-run-on-trash/
bassbindevil says:
Jul 25, 2010. 3:14 PM REPLY Russia explored using wood gas generators for power production, according to a book my friend has. If I remember correctly, it did prove to be more efficient (in terms of cords of wood used) than a steam-powered generator. So, for someone living a Unabomber off-the-grid lifestyle with free firewood, this might be a practical way to run a generator to top off the batteries when the sun doesn't shine or the wind doesn't blow. And in a stationary application you could recover waste heat and enjoy a hot bath. There's still a few original WW2 vintage vehicles around with producer gas systems. I've seen an old military truck like that.
jimmason says:
Jul 25, 2010. 4:02 PM REPLY approximately 30% of the energy in the original wood is used for the thermal-chemical processes in gasification. thus you only have 70% of the original energy now in the easier to use gaseous form of the fuel. in the world of energy conversion, this is rather high, fwiw. as you now have a gaseous fuel, it will burn much more completely than liquids. you get back a bit of total system efficiency there. and then syngas is a very high autoignition fuel, thus it can run at much higher compressions still in otto cycle. about 17:1 seems about the top. from here you start improving things with waste heat recovery and reintroduction. we note there are many sources of waste heat in a gasifier engine system. namely the hot gas out the gasifier, and the hot exhaust out the engine. more elaborate forms of the GEK gasifier capture both of these waste heat streams and reintroduce them to appropriate process points in the gasification process. this significantly improves the conversion efficiency, as well as creates enough thermal headroom that you can start augmenting the gasifier with steam/water. to the degree you have adequate heat, you can react more water over the char via the reaction h2o + c = h2 + co. you can learn about the full waste heat recovery and recyling system for the GEK, call the Hot TOTTI (Tower of Total Thermal Integration) here: http://gekgasifier.pbworks.com/Tower-of-Total-Thermal-Integration and yes, a vehicle is not really the best application for gasifier. a stationary genset is much more appropriate. you can see how we make those here: http://www.gekgasifier.com/wpgallery/10-15kw-gek-gasifier-kohler-genset-skid-2/ this is all the same base gasifier as described in this instructable. we've gone through a couple new versions since this instructable. you can see the updates here: http://gekgasifier.pbworks.com/How-to-Build-and-Run-the-GEK-Gasifier jim (the gek maker)
Treknology says:
Jul 26, 2010. 5:51 AM REPLY It was the true conversion of "gasoline" to a gas, not a liquid, that was the secret of the 200mpg carburettor--again, greater efficiency combusting a gas rather than some sloppy droplets. Jul 25, 2010. 10:35 PM REPLY well if you actually do the math it looks like this. (every thing is in moles) H2O + C+635 kcal = H2 + CO then recovering the energy is H2+Co+O2=H2o+Co2+724Kcal the process only extracts 89 kcal at 100% efficiency, so there's 7x then energy just buzzing in the system it's very hard to produce usable energy from heat so we can assume with the size of the device and the fact that the engine used too burn is wasteful, but its a fact that an engine running hot like this would would produce Nitrogen Oxides. they rob then engine of energy and are a horrible pollutant. 70% is just incorrect. the real about transferred from log to wheel is probably more along the lines of 10-21%. finally why is this a bad fuel for a car? simply put it's heave. wood has an energy density of 18MJ/KG. so you get 3.78MJ of useful energy per KG. we enter the the mass of 1KG multiply by highway speed/3600 for conversion between h and s then multiply by that again (J=(KG*M)*M) it takes 177J/s or .6MJ/H to move an equivalent mass. by the way (I know this last point looks like a nitpicker but it's not) h2o + c = h2 + co is wrong. capitalization is key in chemistry. what you wrote here was water + Carbon.= Hydrogen + Cobalt.
lucek says:
jimmason says:
Jul 26, 2010. 10:45 AM REPLY yes, log to wheel will be in the 10-25% efficiency range. pretty much like liquid fuels in actual use scenarios. the 70% efficiency conversion is just the solid to gaseous stage if the fuel in the gasifier. this is a well known, long established rule of thumb for a basic gasifier, before any heat recycling work. once you integrate the waste heats from the engine, you can do much better. yes, waste heats are difficult to use for useful work. this is proverbial when the work one wants is mechanical or electricity. but when the work one wants is heating things, heat is a rather efficient source for the task. using the waste heat from an engine to amend thermal processes in a gasifier is a much easier task than trying to get waste engine heat into some useful form at the wheels of the car, or electrical accessories. note the long standing failure of these systems to be economical to incoporate into an automobile. in our case, direct heat to heat transfer is not terribly difficult to implement. in the photo set here you can see the exhaust pipes of the engine going back to hte gasifier, into the pyrocoil, which drives pyrolysis and drying to some extent drying. http://www.gekgasifier.com/wpgallery/10kw-gek-power-pallet-gasifier-genset/ if you want to get into the details of modelling gasifier energy balance and mass flow, see here: energy balance: http://gekgasifier.pbworks.com/Modelling-Gasifier-Energy-Balance mass flow: http://gekgasifier.pbworks.com/Modelling-Gasifier-Mass-Flow jim
lucek says:
Jul 26, 2010. 12:17 PM REPLY Still there is the question is this better then having a plant. some bacteria being investigated for this exact type of thing convert the H2 and CO to C2H6O witch has an energy density of 30MJ/KG. so if you switched to a base station plant design and fed the products to bacteria then you'd have to hall less mass in terms of fuel and just the device itself. for that matter having a larger plant will push the energy extraction closer to the theoretical limit. now I admit my personal experience with things of the nature is charcoal making. the greatest predictor of yield vs wood used is insulation. so it only holds a stationary device could have better insulation characteristics and thus better efficiency. http://www.anl.gov/PCS/acsfuel/preprint%20archive/Files/38_3_CHICAGO_08-93_0855.pdf
http://www.instructables.com/id/Convert-your-Honda-Accord-to-run-on-trash/