Professional Documents
Culture Documents
FORD
7/21/97 91
r-'
_/
and
his wife
A. Q.
were
living
before
1996?
2
3
No,
Do you
4
5 6
7
ever
lived
A.
have
been
Carolina. know.
Oklahoma.
Q.
So I don't He was
in South
Carolina
and his
wife
was
9
10
in Oklahoma?
A. Q.
they know
came
11 12
13
where
A.
Q.
(Shakes So they
14
15
16
months?
A.
Correct.
I
I've know.
heard
of them
over
the
years,
but
Q.
don't
17
18
connection Calls
had
you
of them? know.
A.
Q.
coming
19
20 21
A. Q. been at New
A. Q.
Uh-huh, Okay.
22
23 24
25
New
Bethany?
L
BAIN
.
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SHREVEPORT, LoUISIANA
(318) 429-2160
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THELMA
FORD
7/21/97 92
1--"
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11
.'_ -,
He Had
came he
from been in
ministries, Yes
I
I think back to
Going
Raymond
him?
you
said
that
Frank
Garcia
~s
No. He's
He's not
not
Q.
Garcia still
A.
ordained. Bethany?
12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
New
Q.
A.
about
Julia
Garcia?
know New
where
Julia Had
been -let
came
I
Bethany?
skipped
Garcia, came to
A.
come
he
Q. before? at New
you had
know done
where before
she she
had
been to work
came
I do
not
know.
..
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--SHREVEPORT, LoUISIANA
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BAIN
&
(318) 429-2160
I
/'
THELMA F;~D-
----;/-;~
/97 93
-.
1 2
3 4 5 6
I
Q.
And you
think
maybe
Frank
Garcia
at one been
of Lester
Roloff's
one
Roloff had
had
one
opened
or part
founded church? A.
by Reverend
they
went
to that
7
8 9
They
went
to the church
that
he founded
in corpus
Q.
10 11 12
13
Bethany?
A.
Two years. And do you know to there? She came And No. And do you know to -the Long Beach Baptist she's a what she had done in Long from Long Beach, California. where she had been before
Q. she came A.
Q. A.
14 15 16 17
18
is she Cambodian,
also?
Q. Beach
19 20 21 22 23
,
_.
before A.
she came
Church
there
in a school,
but
registered Q. A.
Q.
24 25
Reverend
Lester --
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RAIN
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SHREVEPORT, LoUISIANA
(318) 429-2160
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THELMA
FORD
7/21/97 94
1 2
3 4 5 6
Roloff Home
I had and
asked said
you
about they
the
Rebecca to New
you
that
moved
Bethany
they
7
8 9
there New or
any Bethany
payment for
from any
Rebecca or
Home food
For or A.
services
anything?
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17
18
Q.
themselves A. Q. for eating A. Q. A. Q. work New in
kept
to
kitchen? kitchen.
They they
pay
you
or
give
you
anything
the
kitchen?
they had
attend their
the own
school? school. their the children same room did with not the
19 20 21 22
23
24
in other
words, or
same
classroom
Bethany A. Q.
children? Correct. And then Did did how they about make lights, their that water; own from that
sort for
of that,
thing? or
25
they
purchase
BAIN
&
SIIREVEPORT,
LolJISIANA
(318) 429-2160
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_.
THELMA
-- . FORD
_ _--..
7/21/97
95
A.
Q.
just
took
care
words,
New Bethany
3
4
to them? A.
Q.
5 6 7
8 9 10
those
things A.
Home
They
a place
to stay.
gave
them Q.
a place A. I just
stay?
I
11 12
13 14 15 16
don't they
-- I do not
I
any what
of that.
know
Q.
came.
don't your
words,
knowledge
of
that
was A.
Q. A.
up on your
doorstep?
17 18
19 20
just
don't
Q. A. Q. pace
About
I
5 , 10, know.
or 50?
I
don't
don't about
Don't
know. that
Talk
21 22
23
you were
telling
me about
comes
from
some
place
in Texas,
as I
24
25
recall? A.
.
Garland, ------------
Texas.
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SHREVEPORT, LoUISIANA
. - _o_.
(3lH) 4292160
BAlN
& SIMPSON
COURT REpORTERS
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--
------7/21/97
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THELMA
FORD
---l
i
How or
do
you
go
about
i
2
3 4 5 6
does on you
depends Can
7
8 9
price?
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19
something.
How
about
junior
high
A.
prices. Q. A. Q. school
It
all
varies.
do
not
know
those
care
of
that?
20 21 22 23
24
subjects A. Q. A. Q. They Do
you
write
the
check
25
____.~ o b , ~nYWhere _~r_om $2,000 to $4,
ooo~ __.
(318) 429-2160
BAIN
&
SHREVEPORT,LoUISIANA
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THELMA
FORD
7/21/97 97
Q.
A.
does
that
buy
2
3
4
-- each
child
at least all
paces
of each
subject
times,
Q.
if that
means
But a typical
6
7 8 9
$2,000
to $4,000? A.
Q. A.
depends. regard or turn out how regard that think to the away intake, more do you think
10 11 12
13
14
Q. that you
children
-- I'm My
to figure is:
to ask
this
with
officers do you
come you
to send
15 16 17
18
children, more? A.
Q. A. Q.
away
or take
Turn Turn
19 20 21 22
23
Because
I can't
care idea,
me any accept
or the
percentage
24
25
15 kids
Q.
when
in '95 and
._
'96,
L__
RAIN
& SIMPSO~
COURT REPbRITRS
SHREVEPORT, LoUISIANA
(31 R) 429-2160
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THELMA
FORD
7/21/97 98
1 2
3 4 5 6
7
were get?
you getting
-- how many
calls
a day would
you
A.
From And
12
to 15 calls
a day.
a
Q. i
of those children
day,
how
i many
1
of those A.
Q.
up accepting?
!,
about
of them
I
earlier Do you
8 9 10 11 12
medical
records.
a regular of the
physician children?
and dentist
for taking
care
A.
Q.
13 14
the
children?
A. Q.
15
16
17 18 19
A. Jerry
Johnston.
Q.
And
Dr. May,
as
recall,
is in the
Shreveport A.
Q.
20
21
22 23
A. orthodontist
Q.
I I
is in Ruston.
"
""
24
who
the orthodontist
is?
25
A.
I.
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BAIN
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SIIREVEPORT, LOUISIANA
(318) 429-2160
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THELMA
['
FORD
7/21/97
--"
1 2 3 4
Q.
And
let's
see. now,
eyeglasses? --
A. Dr. Nelson
Q.
Use Walmart in Bossier. When When Does did you Walmart Walmart
can't
from
him
to Walmart? glasses.
5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14
A.
Q.
in with someone
their who
examines
them?
A.
Yes. Then health with care regard to the services Dr. May, provided
Q.
by these Dr.
professionals, and
Johnston,
for those
take
care
of that, takes
except care of
15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
/ '\
us -- he mostly his.
those
himself.
Q.
He offers
words,
as the check
writer,
you
don't A.
afford
take
care
Q.
I have
to take
care
of it. well?
would yes.
include
Dr. Mayas
A.
Q.
Uh-huh,
So in other
words,
make care
~.-
arrangements professionals
25
talked
about,
._-----_.----BAIN
&
SHREVEPORT. LoUISIANA
._.--.O_Ol
THELMA FORD
7/21/97 100
1
2 3 4 5 6
for
that A.
Q.
out
of New
Bethany
Funds?
Yes. And
;.
what's what
the source
of those
funds?
A.
Q.
That's With
regard
campaign
churches
where or at that
7
8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
is it simply send
a church
you a check? at some it's are time or other, from one presented church us to
hearsay
just
faithful
to send
every
a record
of what
churches
send
you A.
Q.
words,
like you
have
list?
A. Q.
1,000
told
me earlier a list
there
were
or 1,300, A.
Q.
got
of those
churches?
Yes. Do you
a record
of how much
they
contribute A.
as well? Yes.
BAIN
REpORTERS
SHREVEPORT,LoUISIANA
P 18) 429-2160
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THELMA
FORD
7/21/97 101
Q.
too?
2
3 4 5 6
A.
Q.
A.
the record.
recess)
I
7
8
Q.
Bernstein)
think
where the
we left
off,
Mrs.
is we were
talking
about
9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23
'churches Bethany? A.
Q.
a
contributed
to the support
of New
Right. And
I
think
told donate
me that
there
is
record
and what
they've
A. Q.
correct?
receive
any money
from
either
government?
A. Q.
No. And does New funds Bethany from or any other of its agencies?
ministries
A. Q.
any
that receive
to from
24
New any
Bethany,
'-_
25
organizations
--_._--
churches?
---SHREVEPORT, LOlJrSlA.a~A
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BAlN
&
(318) 429-2160
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_102
THELMA
FORD
7/21/97
./
A.
Q.
3
4
sort
of appeal
or solicitation Bethany
from
people
that legal
contribute expense
to New
to help
defray
the
5
6 7 8 9
of this
it is likely and
to discovery
evidence,
I'll
instruct
the witness
MR.
to answer
10
11
BERNSTEIN: That
12
of admissible I'll
13 14 15 16
17
articulate
reconsider
objection.
MR.
BERNSTEIN: of for
Counsel,
basis to not
that
I'm aware
instruction
answer
a question If you
18 19
20 21 22 23 24
privilege. instruction,
can give
to acknowledge Rule
26
of the
rules
of civil
procedure
in following
pretrial of
discovery, that
is limited is likely
information
to
discovery this
of admissible lawsuit
evidence. likely
1-----""
25
financing
is not
to lead
to the
_.~ _ ____J
.-----_BAIN
&
SHREVEPORT, LoVISIANA
(318) 4292160
- __ __ ._---_._.- - ----. .
THELMA
FORD
----------7/21/97 103
discovery provide
evidence. I will
2
3
BERNSTEIN:
point,
4
5
6
7
not have
g01ng time
to seek
as we'll
to do that MR.
Q.
dormitories
8 9
are
there A.
Q. A. Q.
Bethany
10
11
girls
! "\
12 13
14
beds know.
A. Q.
A.
15
16
Q.
A. Q.
17
18
then
side.
Any
idea in the
how
19 20 21 22 23
24
I
many girls
beds
you have
d o rrn ?
A. Q. A. Q. A.
25
yes.
I
I
I I I
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(31 H) 429-2160
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&
SHREVEPORT, Lot:ISIANA
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THELMA
FORD
7/21/97
104
1
Q.
In the 27 I think --
years you
that told
has
been that
2
3 4 5
the most
is 200 Yes.
Q.
at one were
time.
And
200,
how when
6 7
8 9
many you
of those had
A. Q.
boys,
or was
girls
200? 100 each. 100 each. that built The girls roughly? to guess. dorm that holds
SOD,
10
11
.'
when
was A. Q.
A. Q.
12 13 14 15
fine?
,84, 1984
'85.
or 1985, building
where used
did
the girls
stay?
Is there
another
as the girls
16
17 18 19
dormitory?
A.
Where And
the boys
dorm
Q. girls dorm
A. Q.
before Correct.
20
21
boys you
dorm
one
--
22 23
24
was
that
all built
first
opened A.
That
....... ,
25
we opened
the Girls
BAIN
&
SHREVEPORT, LotJISIANA
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-7/21/97
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I _HELMA II I
I
2 3
FORD
105--
-I
I
I
!
Q. A.
'70s?
Q. Girls Home A.
Q.
it before
you
opened
the
4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
.r'.'
closed what
old
folks
home. under
Do you k~ow
name
it had gone
beforehand? A.
Q. A. Q.
(Shakes
head
husband
12 13
14
old
folks
A. Q.
it 1n what -Home?
name?
15 16 17
18
A.
Q.
Home
The New Bethany -- For Girls. For Girls. building Correct. What other
A.
Q.
So I know
that
at
19 20 21
least
one
A. Q.
which
is the new
girls
buildings
have
you-all
built
22
23
I
out
there A.
24 25
LQ_.
!
BAIN
cafeteria.
&
SUREVEPORT. LoUISIA."IA
(31 H) 429-2160
fHELMA
!
FORD
7/21/97 106
r>\ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23
-:
A. Q. A.
A
And And
dorm
somewhere.
A new A log
Q. girls? A.
Is
the
log
dorm
for
boys
or
Q.
A. Q. your for there husband New
I have So if
Reverend Home
property '70s,
Bethany
Girls
early
was A. Q. A.
old
folks
there?
like
home?
Q.
then, dorm, you've
And one
had
a gym, A. Q. A. Q.
a log
girls built
dorm? it A. for
Was you,
that of --
came
in and
24
was know.
)
25
L__ . .
I do
_
not
------_.SHREVEPORT, LOlIlSIANA
--
BAIN
&
(318) 429-2160
-THELMA
/ ..'\
FORD
7/21/97 107
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23
Q.
Do you
remember with
writing
for Paying
expenses
in connection or
I'n
the girls
for materials
~.
A. been a long
Q.
Well,
sure,
but
I don't
know.
It's
built with
it or paying building A.
Q.
I
in connection
A. was built
at the same
the girls
dorm
Ibuilt.
Q.
is inside about
the building.
how
A. together.
Q.
Cafeteria
and gym
A.
Q.
cafeteria, built A.
Q.
buildings
r>
24 25
A.
Q.
do not you
recall -- was
Could
it '70s,'809,'909? ------------
__
BAIN
._-(318) 429-2160
&
SHREVEPORT, LoUISIANA
THELMA
FORD
7/21/97 108
A. Q.
It'd Now,
have the
been second
in the school
'80s,
but
-Do you
building.
3
4 5 6
7
recall
when
A. Q. A. Q.
recently
built.
Recently Ninety
8 9
A.
Q.
I guess, designed
or
'96.
Do you know
any of these
10 11 12 13
14 15
buildings? A.
Q.
F'ord. see. boys The can log dorm stay you said
let's
you
don't A.
Q.
there?
(Shakes Okay.
negatively) or two-story or
Is it one-story
16 17
18 19 20 21
,
big
Q.
enough A.
Q.
it's
tall?
22
23
/_ ... <,
A.
Q.
24
any
locker A.
or anything
In it or
25
-------BAJN
---
&
SHREVEPORT, LoUISIANA
(318) 429-2160
--_
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THELMA
FORD
7/21/97 109
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Q.
1S
it just Gym,
A. kitchen,
Q.
No.
school,
is in the All
I
same
one building.
k no w ,
the gym, A.
Q.
is going
to be tall?
8 9 10 11 12
13
cafeteria two-stories A.
the school,
one-story
or three-stores? Kitchen is the second first floor. on the floor, and up above
it is the school,
Q.
A.
Q.
14 15 16
floor
Second
floor A.
school. a third
just
17 18 19 20
21
storage,
Q.
Do you have
any
idea
people
can
be seated A.
Q.
at one
22 23
24
that the
you new
students, with
there,
building
the cafeteria
gym been
built
at that A.
point?
25
Oh, yes.
SHREVEPORT, LoUISIANA
.. _---
(318) 429-2 I 60
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1-___--
THELMA
(
FORD
7/21/97 110
Q.
Could
all 200
students
eat
at the
same
2
3
time? A. ate They did not hours. and boys eat at separate hours? eat at the same time. They
4
5 6
at separate Q. A.
Q. A. Q.
7
8 9
all
eat
time?
yes,
100. over?
10 11 12 13
14 15 16
A.
Q.
the girls
does
it have?
Is it one-story,
two-story,
three-story? A.
Q.
Are
the four
floors
of the
girls one
dorm
much
the same?
In other
words,
17
18
floor
A. Q.
19 20 21 22 23
24 25
I
same
as A.
It's
just floor
one
long
room,
dorms, dorms.
and
the third
is the same
way,
Q.
And It's
the second
floor?
A.
L__.
BArN
.
&
SrMPSON COURT REPORTERS SHREVEPORT, LOUISIANA
._
(31 K) 429-2160 ._-
----
-_.-
THELMA
FORD
7/21/97 111
_.-. l i
It's
rooms.
And
how
about
the
first
2
3 4 5 6 7 8
It's It's
five? girls
me
many
live A.
the
first never
cannot
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20
answer
that Q. A. Q.
I don't in charge
really of room
know. assignments?
is
Do to
estimate.
okay 25 And
Four. Four I use Oh, you had Right. Okay. And 25 girls to the hall? halls four use on the first one?
21 22 23 24 25
you
four
monitors?
I
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I!
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BAIN
& SIMPSON
COURT REPORTERS
SHREVEPORT, LOUISIANA
(318) 429-2160
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THELMA
.. ----.....\
FORD
7/21/97 112
A.
Q.
2
3 4 5 6
7
what and
floors second.
are
the halls
on?
A. Q. do girls A. Q. A.
Q.
Okay. fourth
At any
point,
on the -.
floors?
unused?
8 9
have
beds
in them?
10 11
f "
A.
Q.
facilities or how
on each set
12
floor up?
or are
is that
13
14 15 16 17
18
A. the open
Every dorms
room
has
their
own bathroom,
but
have
bathrooms
on each
end of the
building.
Q.
So there floor,
on the
fourth
floor,
third
A. Q.
19
20
21 22 23 24
the
first A.
Q.
and two on the second we use, some yes. space don't Yes. on the use?
first
floor
and
second
A.
that you
25
..
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----
._---_!
BAIN
& SIMPSON
COURT REPORTERS
SHREVEPORT. LoUISIANA
(3IR) 429-2160
.------------
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THELMA
/\
FORD
7/21/97 113
Q. 1996. 19967
So
--
let's you
about in
2
3 4
Roughly, Is that A. Q. A. Q. A. Q.
did
talking
5
6
ioo
girls
and
a 100 boys.
7
8
9
Correct. And so you'd on head have have the 50 girls floor on the first
10 11
/
\.
floor
and
second
roughly?
A.
Q. than the
12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20
A.
Q. boys dorm,
old
girls
dorm
that's
now
the
one-story?
Two-story?
Two. Two-story. is it small And rooms? is rooms, and the top floor is it long room dormitory
21 22 23 24 25
floor
switched
from
a girls
dorm
to
remodeled?
Yes.
-----_
.. _.-
SIIREVEPORT,
LoUISIANA
(31 X) 429-2160
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Q.
rooms
are
on
2 3 4 5 6
the
first
A. Q.
don't
Have
that all,
been and
built your
husband have
opened buildings
7 8
9
early
'70s,
any of those
by a contractor?
A.
10
Q. A. .That
11 12
(
The gym,
the kitchen,
building.
Q.
13
Do you recall
the name
of the
14
15 16 17 18
contractor? A.
Q.
last
name
he from He's
A.
Q.
from
Houston, that
19 20
21
built
at New Bethany
contractor? A.
Q.
22
23
that
that
was A.
Q.
24 f)
25
And
it was
_
built
by whom?
i________
BAIN
&
SHREVEPORT, LOUISIANA
(318) 429-2160
.....
7/21/97 115
A.
Q. the
2 3 4 5 6
school
before?
r~gard nursing
to
when do
you you
and
your
I bought
the
7
8
9
IbOU9htA~t
Q.
I
f::::
Do
I
old
home,
remember
you
10
it? A. how much we know Q. don't paid how remember for much it. we We paid did how much right offhand, but
11
12 13
paid for
$150
a month,
I don't
it.
$150
14
15 16
And
I
how
long no
you
pay
a month?
A.
Q. A. Q. A. Q. the how the
have
Is
it paid
17 18 19
20
Yes. Thank Yes. with regard from paid to the Mr. Texas, the that? been school? a long Do time. you Jordon do that you was goodness, huh?
21
22
him
building
23
r\
24
That's boys
25
And
about
i __
BAIN
._. .__
&
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----
. _ _j
(3tH) 429-2160
SIIRF.VEPORT, LoCISIANA
r--THELMA
-_ .. "1
116
1 2 3 4
5
how
much
that
remember
I
really the or
When
bought or two
building One
how
buildings? Yes.
building
and
a farmhouse.
7
8 9
Two
buildings. Have you-all built any Are other there homes any out other
besides out My
the
farmhouse?
10
11
dwellings A. staff
12 13
14
And
roughly,
when
did
you-all
build
your A. Q. A. Q.
15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22
23
or
14
you-all
hire
Okay.
And
then
the
staff A. Q. A. Q.
When no
have
Was
it built
a contractor?
No.
The can staff house. sleep? How large is it? How
24 25
many
people A.
it
Three-bedroom.
L__ ..
BAIN
_
&
SIMPSON COURT REPOR1tRS SHREVEPORT, LolJlSIANA
. _ _j
(318) 429-2160
---
---------117
7/21/97
Q.
It's
three
2
3
A.
Q.
(Nods head
4
5
6 7 8
9
established Iparents A.
Q. A. Q. A.
regard
to visitation
of children?
was
the policy?
10 11
Q. child would
A. Q.
In 1996,
-: ".
12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23
to stay
at New Bethany
So if a parent Bethany,
or juvenile
court
placed would
child not
at New
be allowed A. Q.
to visit
at New
Bethany A.
Q.
regard
to discipline?
A. paddling.
Q.
we could
use corporal
, ~\
24
2S
Was Yes.
the policy
in writing?
A.
-----BAlN
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SHREVEPORT, LoUISIANA
&
(318) 429-2160
-----_.
__
.-
- --- -----
-----------
--.'._'._
._..
THELMA
_--FORD
- .....
--
----------118
-1
7/21/97
I
1 2 3
Q. A.
Q.
is that policy
placement if I wanted
4
5 6 7 B
out
what
Homes' look
policy
was with
would
in the private
Yeah. Is that
And
our power
of attorney to staff
says
it.
policy
furnished
9 10
11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
regard
place get
a child sort
at New
Bethany,
require
any
of psychological
evaluation
of the
child? A.
Q.
No. When either a child perform evaluation arrives or have at New any sort Bethany, of do
you
all
21 22
23
psychological A.
Q.
performed
for you?
No. So you don't is? that they give me know what the child's
24
25
psychological A.
status Only
by the reports
1_BAIN
&
SHREVEPORT, LoUISIANA
...
(318) 429-2160 .
-- -.-
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--
--
--
r-=-. ----i
-- _119
THELMA
-I
I I I I
I
1 2
3 4 5 6
when
they Q.
send And
in
the
about
the
doctors for
dentists children.
optometrists with regard A. Q. the doctor? A. decides Q. that child you to A. Q. go the
I
,
to when
a child
is
doctor?
No.
So how is it decided to take a child to
I
I
7 8
9
That's that or
my
--
I'm Ford.
the
one
that
usually
10 11
-".--.\
And by
have of not? to
any
rules
or when
guidelines to take a
12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20
deciding
doctor
take
care
of
a child.
raised
children?
A. Q.
talking A. Q. proud of A. Q. A. their
L___
children. many let's nine. nine children. I gather you're children? go ahead While and fi~d we're out?
have
21 22 23
r -,'. 24
proud are
of their
don't
25
names.
_
I
!
_ ------SHREVEPORT, LoUISIANA
__ J
(31R) 429-2160
BAIN
& SIMPSON
COURT REpOR1~RS
1- - _'--"--j
- -_.- -------
_._ .--.-----
120
'-'-1
THELMA
FORD
7/21/97
I
./
I
Q.
Sure. You're going I'll to write let her all write of it that down. down? I'll
2 3 4 5 6
A.
Q.
just
..
Sure.
listen A.
I
Janet, Maxine, Is that Sheila, nine? Melanie.
Theila,
Penny,
I I
7
8 9
Q.
A.
Let's Oh, We
see. I must
Q.
A.
won't
tell.
10
11
Robbie. Robbie. living New No. So in the none home that? now. now? Doug. connection years old. did He's he have? of or them live are on either the in the church or Now, or of your nine with children, New Bethany are
Q.
any of them and A.
12
,"'" "\
associated Homes?
13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2S
Church
Bethany
Q.
or work
property
anything A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A. been
what 19
a student
was:
Does
he
live
--RAIN
----_._._(318) 429-2160
& SIMrsON
COURT REPORTERS
SHREVEPORT, LoUISIANA