2009 The Champion R

IRVING.
TXT
From sumair Thu Feb 2 20:35:30 1995
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Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 20:35:08 -0800
From: Sumair Mahmood <sumair>
Message-Id: <199502030435.AA02789@planecrash.berkeley.edu>
To: msu@ocf
Subject: David Irving on Friday
Status: RO
salaam!
though this is in no way an msu or isc (officially) sponsored event, you

should know that racist/fascist David Irving will be speaking on this
Friday at 7:00 PM in 120 Latimer Hall on the topic of "Hitler's Final
Solution". the cost for tickets is $3.
as you may know, Irving was twice cancelled at the last minute by UC
administration (through Zionist influence) on the university itself, and
when he spoke off campus last semester, the ensuing violent demonstration
made CNN Headline News (by the way, word is that they're coming this time).
there will be hired security, so don't worry TOO much.
why Irving? because he may be able to teach us a little something about

German World War II history (ie, the Holocaust) about which the facts are
in dispute. and knowlege is permissible to be gained from Muslims, Non-
Muslims, good guys and bad guys. that's all. here the OTHER side of the
story. by the way, he is only one of the more famous 'controversial
historians' who have been speaking about this issue at college universities
all over the country.
this event is being sponsored only by the Berkeley Free Speech Coalition
From bittermuslim@uclink2.berkeley.edu Sat Feb 4 22:57:21 1995

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From: bittermuslim@uclink2.berkeley.edu
Message-Id: <199502050652.WAA00613@uclink2.berkeley.edu>
Apparently-To: msu@ocf
Status: RO
With the David Irving thing this weekend, don't you think that or supporting him was
VERY rascist. That is like denying the massacres in Bosnia. It is true we cannot
dwell on the holocaust, nor we cannot deny it. You gotta face it, the MSU is now a
racist organization filled with right-winged fanatics. WE have to learn to live
along with Jews and other people, not sling racist remarks at them or say that we
are going to kill them in the future. I am not a proud member of the MSU now, and
you know who you homophobes are, both male and female.
From bittermuslim@uclink2.berkeley.edu Sat Feb 4 23:52:50 1995

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From: bittermuslim@uclink2.berkeley.edu
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IRVING.TXT
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Status: RO
IN my last letter I mean anti-semetic (NOT HOMOPHOBE).
From zahir@uclink2.berkeley.edu Sun Feb 5 21:02:22 1995

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Date: Sun, 5 Feb 1995 21:00:26 -0800 (PST)
From: Zahir Sajad Janmohamed <zahir@uclink2.berkeley.edu>
Subject: re: Anon. writer
To: msu@ocf
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Status: R
"Bitter Muslim" if you are out there, this is for you.
Salaam Alaikum brother,
I just received your letter and had to respond. First, my views are my
own, and in any way do not represent the MSU MSA or ISC. So don't
generalize as you did before.
We didn't support David Irving as a group. If you read Sumair's
message last week, it said clearly that the talk had no (again no)
affiliation with the MSU. Yes the organizers happened to be Muslims.
Are you so afraid of free speach? Are you afraid to seek knowledge?
Last night I heard Aftab speak to us on Irving. He does not deny
the holocaust, but rather believes the numbers have been exagerated. We
all were pratically forced to not question the events as we grew up. Now
here comes a man who actually took the time to research the issue and you
promptly label him racist? And we too are racist? Please, let's be
rational. The fact is, the formation of the state of Israel was in large
part feasible because of the holocaust. That is, the Jews lobbyed for
special priviledges because of the persecution they faced in the
concentration camps. If it can be proved that the numbers in the
holocaust are a myth, then that takes the power away from the Israelis
and their claim to special treatment.
But do not read into this letter my views. I know too little for
me to fromulate an educated opinion. Label me a racist, a facist,
anti-semetic, whatever. I know I am none of these. And next time you
post a message, have the courage to use your name.
Your brother in Islam,
Zahir
On Sat, 4 Feb 1995

bittermuslim@uclink2.berkeley.edu wrote:
> With the David Irving thing this weekend, don't you think that or supporting
him was VERY rascist. That is like denying the massacres in Bosnia. It is
true we cannot dwell on the holocaust, nor we cannot deny it. You gotta
face it, the MSU is now a racist organization filled with right-winged
fanatics. WE have to learn to live along with Jews and other people, not
sling racist remarks at them or say that we are going to kill them in the
future. I am not a proud member of the MSU now, and you know who you
homophobes are, both male and female.
>
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IRVING.TXT
From sumair Sun Feb 5 23:45:51 1995

(5.65c/IDA-1.4.4.1-DomainOS) id AA06496; Sun, 5 Feb 1995 23:45:26 -0800
Date: Sun, 5 Feb 1995 23:45:26 -0800
To: msu@ocf
Status: RO
Bitter Muslims Write:
>
>With the David Irving thing this weekend, don't you think that or supporting him
>was VERY rascist. That is like denying the massacres in Bosnia. It is true we
>cannot dwell on the holocaust, nor we cannot deny it. You gotta face it, the
>MSU is now a racist organization filled with right-winged fanatics. WE have to
>learn to live along with Jews and other people, not sling racist remarks at them
>or say that we are going to kill them in the future. I am not a proud member of
>the MSU now, and you know who you homophobes are, both male and female.
>
us-Salaamu-'Alaykum ya Kawm al-Muslimeen!
May peace be upon you my dear, dear, brothers and sisters in Islam!
I bear witness that, to the best of my ability, I accept no authority in

my life other than that of Allah, and that I derive my knowlege of Allah
and his just commandments through his LAST servant and messenger Muhammad
ibn 'Abdullah--may the peace and blessings of almighty Allah be with him
and all the previous messengers. Ameen!
Before we even plunge into a rebuttal, let us build some ground work based
upon somethings which all Muslims should be able to agree upon. (Please
forgive me if I seem to off on a tangent. As far as I'm concerned, it's
all relevant material.)
(1) Fighting is prescribed upon you, and you dislike it. But it
is possible that you dislike a thing which is bad for you and that
you love a things which is [in fact] bad for you. But Allah knows
and you do not know. [2:216] [Commentary: Man is finite in know-
lege, but Allah is infinite in knowledge. Therefore, some things
which you and I deem appropriate may in fact be inappropriate. In
this David Irving case, I believe the opposite may be true.]
(2) Let those fight in the cause of Allah who sell the life of
life for the hereafter. To him who fights in the cause of Allah--
whether he is slain or gets victory--soon We shall give him a
reward of great value. And why should you not fight in the cause
of Allah and those who, being weak, are ill-treated (and op-
pressed): men, women, and children whose cry is, "O our lord!
Rescue us from this town, whose people are oppressors, and raise
for us from Yourself one who will protect (us), and raise for us
from Yourself one who will help (us)!" Those who believe fight
in the cause of Allah, and those who reject faith fight in the
cause of evil: so fight against the friends of Satan [C: who are
in fact HUMAN BEINGS], for feeble indeed is the cunning of Satan.
[4:74-76]
(3) Fight, in the cause of Allah, those who fight you but do not
transgress limits, for Allah does not love transgressors. [But]
Slay them wherever you catch them, and turn them out from where
they have turned you out: because [their] persecution is worse
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than [your] slaughter [of them]...Such is the compensation for
those who reject faith. But if they cease, Allah is Often Forgiv-
ing and Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more
persecution. [2:190-193]
(4) Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar:

Allah's Apostle said, "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews
till some of them will hide behind stomes. The stomes will
(betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e., slave of Allah)! There
is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him'". [Sahih al-Bukhari 4.176]
(5) Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour [C: Day of Judgement] will not be
established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind
which a Jew will be hiding will say, 'O Muslim! There is a Jew
hiding behind me, so kill him.'" [Sahih al-Bukhari 4.177]
(6) Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar:

I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "The Jews will fight with you, and
you will be given victory over them so that a stone will say, 'O
Muslim! There is a Jew behind me. Kill him!'" [Sahih al-Bukhari
4.791]
Obviously the most authentic of authentic of authentic Islamic

sources indicate (if not explicitly) that one day many of the Jews will be
responsible for some amount of oppression, and that therefore it will be
incumbent upon you and I to free the world of the Zionist (permit me the
ideological leap) plague by killing--for the pleasure of Allah and the
oppressed people of the world--those ethno-centric Zionist, Jewish
individuals who identify with Israel by proudly identifying themselves as
'Israelis' (which many Jews do not do, by the way). Just ask yourself,
'Are the Jews practicing oppression in the world today?' If you truly
believe in Allah, His Holy Scripture, and His Holy Prophet, then you will
look forward to doing His bidding.
[I was trying to find that ayat that goes something like, "and
when you meet them on the battle field it is not you but Allah
who throws rocks at and swings at them" but I could not find
the referrence and have to quote the ayat 'ad verbatim'. Sorry!]
I do not, nor should any true Muslim, want to "just get along and live" with
such people. We should tell them of our intentions, thereby striking fear
into their hearts [cannot find this referrence, either] and perhaps changing
the minds and attitudes of some people among them. In essence, we should
not be hypocritical, but encourage them to be God-conscious.
At the same time, of course, WE MUST DEAL JUSTLY with those who are taken
as prisoners of war--who will eat, drink, etc. what you and I will. And,
under the Islamic State you and I will have to lay down OUR lives to pro-
tect the lives of Jews (and Christians) who will pay the 'jizya' tax and
will not be compelled to join the army or fight our wars (which may
African Americans are forced, through economic contraints, to do in this
country)...why? because Muslims are not barbarians, but soldiers of the
Sublime Being who are concerned with implementing His Law and promulgating
justice thereby. All of Allah's commands, we believe, are for the benefit,
not oppression of Mankind.
* * * * * * * *
Enough Ground Work! (Please bear with me, I've tried to supply authentic
Islamic evidence every step of the way.)
As to the David Irving Case Itself:
Page 4
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Question #1: Does supporting Irving make us all fascists?!!
One of the ironies of the last demonstration against Irving was

that (an unruly bunch of) white [pardon the expression] people burst into
a multi-cultural audience, accusing them of being Nazis. I still chuckle
when I think about it! Ha Ha Ha!
But seriously. Can simply LISTENING to some historian make an
individual a racist or fascist? I think not.
The actual question is, "Should the Muslims support Irving's right
to speak, given his racial bias?" Firstly, it should be noted that Irving
has never (to the best of my knowlege) in any way advocated or organized
anti-colored people machinery. Mind you, he may have his personal opinions
--however incorrect they may be--but he has never DEMONSTRATED this bias of
his in a public motivation fasion. These are his own personal beliefs.
[UC professor Sarrach (spelling?), who seems to share similar beliefs, was
not picketed and attacked by mobs of people. HE was invited to debate
another campus professor regarding his perverted genetic deficiency
theories. No socialist or spartacus members demonstrated against him.
Why? (Can you say Z-I-O-N-I-S-T-S ?)] As long as he has something mean-
ingful to contribute to our cause without saying something Islamically
controversial, he can be utilized by us as a weapon (someone might want to
check the Islamicity of this principle).
Question #2: Are we denying the Holocaust?
No. We're simply trying to remove the ideological foundation

beneath the illigitimate state of Israel, by putting the death toll
in true perspective. After all, just about as many Muslims died in
World War II as did Jews (Source: Prof. Algar). Many other nations and
people have been unjustly dealt with on a similar if not greater level.
Only the Zionists have been able to sell their misery. There are a great
number of African and Native Americans who haven't received a bent nickel
for their history of suffering and persecution.
The Jewish Holocaust DID occur--and it is a great shame upon
humanity that WE let it happen--but Irving has different, independent
sources of evidence that the actual numbers were significantly lower than
those now repeated. And what's so revolutionary about that? The official
Auschwitz death toll has been dropping ever since World War II! (I think
it began at ~6 million deaths in Auschwitz, and has now fallen to ~1.4
million.) What's the big deal if Irving contends that the actual figure
is actually much lower that even that?
* * * * * * * *
I could go on, but I shouldn't waste any more of your time. We do not
hate all Jews, but only ethno-centric nationalist Zionists. It is they
whom we will slay one day very soon, Insha-Allah. May Allah bring that
day during our own life times so that we may do jihad for His pleasure
and accrue a great reward with Him. Ameen!
I do not condemn you for sending anonymous mail, but I hope that you do
feel good about being part of the msu and isc now. After all, the
leaders of these organizations have this understanding of Islam (Insha-
Allah) and you should be proud of this, even if you are having troubles
with these concepts yourself. We should all be proud to have strong
leadership.
May Allah give us all guidance. And may we derive our beliefs not from
our own desires (as Allah warns us against repeated in the Holy Q) but
from the Word of Allah and through the traditions of our Holy Prophet.
Anyone who does not adhere to Quran and Sunna is not a Muslim and will thus
understandably feel uncomfortable in the msu. Wal-Hamdu Lillah!
SuperMan
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(I hope I didn't stray TOO far from the topic!)
From bittermuslim2@uclink.berkeley.edu Mon Feb 6 17:17:42 1995

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Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 16:43:26 -0800
From: bittermuslim2@uclink.berkeley.edu
Message-Id: <199502070043.QAA28409@uclink2.berkeley.edu>
Status: RO
Let me first say that I am NOT the original bitter muslim, and the vies expressed
herein are expressly my own, whoever I may be.\
I think that the bitter muslim has an excellent point. After all, it is pety and
childish to say that "if you don't recognize our holocaust, we won't recognize
yours". You cannot deny the facts. We should live in peace with others on this
earth, and change the image of islam from one of bombing terrorists and a "I'm OK,
you're not OK" attitude, to one of a religion that loves mankind, and goes about its
business "I won't bother you, you don't bother me". That is what Islam (form the
Arabic for "peace") means. By supporting these people, we ruin our own credibility.
From now on, when we wish to be heard, many people may say "well, what do they
know, htey deny the holocaust even existed!" We are only hurting ourselves by trying
to hurt our brothers in oppression.
Assalam Alaikum
From farhan@uclink.berkeley.edu Tue Feb 7 18:20:45 1995

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Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 15:50:49 -0800 (PST)
From: Farhan Ahmed Syed <farhan@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Subject: re: "bitter muslims"
To: msu@ocf
In-Reply-To: <199502050652.WAA00613@uclink2.berkeley.edu>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9502071510.C28938-0100000@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Status: RO
Assalamu-alaikum.
Bismillahirrahmanarrahim.
Recently, there have been a couple of postings from people who
have used aliases. The views expressed in these letters are not the
point of my letter. I am more worried about the precedent this is setting.
It is a sad day when a person or persons has to rely on an alias
to post a message to his or her fellow brothers and sisters. On this
campus, we have so many other problems to deal with, and we can't even
depend on ourselves now. Why must we be intimidated by each other?
When we first started this net, i wrote a letter encouraging
people to voice their questions and concerns. If they did not wish to
write to the net, they could voice them to me personally. When have i
intentionally hurt someone when they came to me for advice or with
concerns?
I would encourage the people who posted these messages to tell
someone, not necessarily me, so that perhaps we can understand what you
would suggest, rather than to see your cloaked personal criticisms of the
entire MSU.
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Jazakhallahu-khair,
Farhan
By the way, we may stop the "forwarding" system and go back to

the system where you would send it to the account, and we would choose
which ones to send. I don't think anyone wants that, including the
people who run the account.
Salaams
From bittermuslim@uclink.berkeley.edu Tue Feb 7 18:20:44 1995

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Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 15:34:38 -0800
From: bittermuslim@uclink.berkeley.edu
Message-Id: <199502072334.PAA03311@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Status: RO
THIS IS TO ALL MEMBERS OF THE MSU AND INVOLVES EVERYONE, PLEAS READ IT
THOROUGHLY AND WITH AN OPEN MIND
Okay, Sumeir, I understand all that you wrote, I am not

questioning the validity of Islam or the Koran at all. AS a matter of
fact, lets just get of the Koran for a while, because my arguments and
problems are NON-RELIGOUS. I just have problems with the current state
of Muslims around the world and the MSU.
The reason I am writing anonymously is because I do not want the
whole Muslim population after me for my views (e.g. Salman Rushdie). I
apoligize if use strong language and insult people in my following
editorial but the issues I am going to be discussing I fell very strongly
about. And crap like Ali Swabi and the MSU backing of David Irving
really put me over the edge, and just pissed me off.
Firs of all, in my previous letter I guess I gave you guys the
wrong impression, that I thought the whole of MSU is racist, well I
greatly apoligize. That is NOT what I meant. But there is, in fact,
rampant racism in the MSU. For example, last year, during the ASUC
elections, a member of the MSU came up to me and told me to vote for
these two guys (as she handed me two flyers) and said to me that 'they
are not Jewish'. That really agigated me, although I did not confront
her at that time. And just last week couple of MSU members used MSU
equipment to sell David Irving tickets. I understand the whole free
speech issue, but backing ths guy and using MSU equipment, does show
respect to his racist views. I have noticed numerous examples of
prejudice, too many to just list, and many of these I have noticed in
casual conversations I have had with other MSU members. To all these
people, I know you know who you are, I think of you as highly as the
burning pit of my nautious stomach (maybe I should not give you that
much). It is right-winged, fanatical, idiotic scums like you that give
Muslims a bad name. Not to mention Muslims around the world are in such
bad shape because of people liek you.
I have seen this type of pompous and prejudice in many Islam
communites I have visited. All they do is quarell between themselves and
make crude reamark about Jews, Christians, Hindus, etc.... It is not
ironic that Muslims areound the wolrld are in such bad shape, we cannot
live as a community but we jump at the chance to poke fun at other
people. AS a matter of fact, jews, as a whole, are far more successful
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the we are. Do our prejudices containg a little bit of jealousy? I do
not know the answer to that, but is surely an interesting thought. We
should work closely with and cooperate with people of other religions,
at a local and international level, and with political differences
aside. This could accomplish a lot for everybody involved, and it will
surely make this place a better place to live. WE must also learn to
live with ourselves, before we can even start to critic
I welcome responsed to my letter, against or pro, although my
real address is not written down, be assured that I will get them. I
would like to see not racist stuff sent to the MSU net, it would be a
refreshing change from the usual propaganda already being put up. I
hope you read this with an open mind na dthanks for your time.
Salaam
From sumair Wed Feb 8 00:53:21 1995

(5.65c/IDA-1.4.4.1-DomainOS) id AA26275; Wed, 8 Feb 1995 00:52:56 -0800
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 00:52:56 -0800
To: msu@ocf
Status: R
>From daemon Wed Feb 8 00:09:10 1995

Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 00:09:03 -0800
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON>
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
To: sumair
Status: RO
----- Transcript of session follows -----

While talking to uclink.Berkeley.EDU:
>>> RCPT To:<bittermuslim@uclink.berkeley.edu>
<<< 550 <bittermuslim@uclink.berkeley.edu>... User unknown
550 bittermuslim@uclink.berkeley.edu... User unknown
----- Unsent message follows -----

Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 00:09:03 -0800
To: bittermuslim@uclink.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: Your 2nd Post
Salaam!
Just wanted to get into your head and see if I can understand you better
(sincerely). What exactly do you mean when you say, "We should work closely
with and cooperate with people of other religions, at a local and interna-
tional level, and with political differences aside"? From my understanding,
and correct me if I'm wrong, this well-thought and well-phrased sentence
consists of your goal for Muslims everywhere. But now tell me, being as
specific as you can, please, how you envision this.
By the by, I hope Farhan does not decide to filter stuff like this because I
think this is awesome. How can we have unity of action until we have unity
of thought? And if one is more comfortable being anonymous, then so be it.
Page 8
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Some of my concerns for you:

(1) Is it possible for us to have a "non-religious" discussion about
this? Keep in mind that Islam is not just a belief but a total life-guide that
has answers for all of life's situations. For example, we learn from Islam not
to name-call each other (whether or not we're arguing), and--if we ARE arguing
over something, if I may quote Imam Musa--to argue sitting down, or, if the
discussion gets really out of hand, to do so while lying on our sides.
:) In fact, my understanding (albeit it may be corrupt) is that as Muslims we
should look for precedents in the Quran and Sunna for ALL our acts. Every
banal and mundane action of a Muslim, as well, is an act of 'Ibadah or worship
for a true believer...this includes brushing one's teeth, smiling at a stranger,
relieving a call of nature, even having sex with one's spouse can (and should)
in fact be worship.
(2) A point well-received. We Muslims should be careful about remarks

we make about other people, because in fact in the end we cannot be sure even
of our own destinies. It is those who call themselves "Muslims" who in the
Hereafter will be found both in Paradise (Insha-Allah!) and THE LOWEST DEPTHS
of Hell-Fire (the hypocrites will go here; we know this from the Quranic ayat).
At the same time, we have to understand that some people are PROUD to be
believers, and that sometimes we tend to express this pride as an enemy against
non-believers rather than a tool and reminder for us to in fact have compassion
upon them. Now, this is not to say that we cannot "generalize" statements
against our open enemies, who we have every right to despise (under the limits
of shari'ah, of course, but that is understood). As (I believe) is said in
the Quran, the believers are those who love what Allah loves and hate that
which Allah hates [inquire, and I'll see if I can find the reference].
[allow me to log-off and log back on so that this letter is not suddenly
lost because the bloody system cuts my line]
>From daemon Wed Feb 8 00:47:06 1995

Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 00:47:00 -0800
To: sumair
Status: R

While talking to uclink.Berkeley.EDU:
>>> RCPT To:<bittermuslim@uclink.berkeley.edu>
<<< 550 <bittermuslim@uclink.berkeley.edu>... User unknown
550 bittermuslim@uclink.berkeley.edu... User unknown

Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 00:47:00 -0800
To: bittermuslim@uclink.berkeley.edu
Subject: Part II (it's short!)
salaam!
thanks for being patient and reading this through!
Concerns (cont.)
(3) Are Jews, as a whole, really more successful than we are? Can a
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IRVING.TXT
nation which has utterly abandoned God's commandments and message (on the
whole I'm sure you'll agree) truly be successful? Obviously our standards are
not materialistic! Not that this point needs further elaboration...well, in
that case just let me know if you think it does need Quranic support, which is
really terribly easy to find. Our standards of success are based upon 'taqwa',
piety through God consciousness. To quote Maulana Mawdudi, "A Muslim's success
does not essentially consist of such worldly achievements as the conquest of a
territory or the establishment of an empire. His true success depends on de-
voting all his physical and mental energy to upholding to word of God. If a
devotes himself to this cause, he will be reckoned successful, EVEN IF THE
RESULTS OF HIS EFFORTS, FROM A WORLDLY POINT OF VIEW, MIGHT ADD UP TO ZERO"
(Source: this sheet of paper that is staring me in the face because Zain
has posted it right above his desk).
(4) Your proposal calls for, among other things, "work[ing] closely
with ...people...[despite] political" and ideological (you use the word
"religious") differences. Surely this coalition you propose has the motive,
among other things (I still want to hear your elaboration of this sentence, so
please don't let me put words in your mouth, but...) to eradicate the oppression
of the world, as the Holy Q says:
"We sent aforetime our messengers with clear signs and sent down with
them the Book and the Balance, that mankind may stand forth in justice;
[57:25 the rest of the ayat is pretty interesting, actually, but...]
If you agree that Zionist Israelis are our open enemies--as you really must--
then ISN'T THE SUPPORT OF PEOPLE LIKE DAVID IRVING INHERENT IN THE CALL YOU
ARE MAKING TO US? Remember, again, that he is not a "Holocaust Denier" (By
the way, have you ever heard him speak? Some of the stuff you have written
makes me believe otherwise.) he is not a "Holocaust Denier" at all, but
rather an anti-Zionist (allbeit a pro-British one with racially biased views).
I apologize for the length of these correspondences, but hope you can pay me
a courtesy by responding, if only briefly, to each of my concerns. I am
taking this very seriously, and would not at all mind if you took your time
to answer. Again, I believe this has the potential, at least, to be HIGHLY
EFFECTIVE. I do not consider it 'useless bickering'.
sumair
From aquraish@uclink.berkeley.edu Wed Feb 8 03:06:25 1995

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Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 02:18:23 -0800
To: msu@ocf.Berkeley.EDU
From: aquraish@uclink.berkeley.edu (Ausaf Ahmad Bari)
Subject: RE: Bitter Muslim
Status: R
On Mon Feb 6 17:17:39 1995, bittermuslim2@uclink.berkeley.edu wrote:
We should live in peace with others on this earth, and change the image of
islam from one of bombing terrorists and a "I'm OK, you're not OK"
attitude, to one of a religion that loves mankind, and goes about its
business "I won't bother you, you don't bother me". That is what Islam
(form the Arabic for "peace") means.
Page 10
IRVING.TXT
----------END OF QUOTE------------------
Assalamu alaikum,
What you have said is not consistent with what Allah says in the Quran and
with the Sunnah of Muhammad (saaws). Islam means submission to Allah. Those
that submit to Allah are Muslims and they are on the right path. Those that
do not are wrongdoers; they are NOT okay. So, it's perfectly fine for us to
have an "I'm OK, you're not OK" attitude. In fact the Quran has this
attitude. The Prophet fulfilled this attitude when he told the Kuffar to
convert or else to fear the Punishment of the Day of Judgment. You're
correct in that bombing innocent civilians is not the Sunnah of the
Prophet. Muslims are superior to all other humans and the Quran says this
but we have to spread the message of Islam in the correct way. But if you
say that we must have an "I won't bother you, you don't bother me"
attitude, you're wrong. I'm not sure what you mean by 'bother' but the
Prophet (saaws) used to thrust himself before people and tell them to
become Muslim. This is from hadith and the word used to describe it was
'thrust'. This was surely bothersome to the Arabs, to the point that they
tried to kill him (saaws).
-Ausaf
--
Ausaf A. Bari
aquraish@uclink.berkeley.edu

id DAA19285; Wed, 8 Feb 1995 03:29:23 -0800
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Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 03:31:36 -0800
To: msu@ocf
Subject: Re: Bitterness not Based on Islam
Status: R
At 3:34 PM 2/7/95, bittermuslim@uclink.berkeley.edu wrote:
>THIS IS TO ALL MEMBERS OF THE MSU AND INVOLVES EVERYONE, PLEAS READ IT
>THOROUGHLY AND WITH AN OPEN MIND
In the Name of Allah, Most Merciful, Most Compassionate,
Assalamu alaikum,
First I think you should clarify what you exactly mean by 'open mind'. I
will read everything with Quran and Sunnah in mind.
> Okay, Sumeir, I understand all that you wrote, I am not

>questioning the validity of Islam or the Koran at all. AS a matter of
>fact, lets just get of the Koran for a while, because my arguments and
>problems are NON-RELIGOUS. I just have problems with the current state
>of Muslims around the world and the MSU.
Page 11
IRVING.TXT
How can you have problems with the current state of Muslims and say that
your problems are 'NON-RELIGIOUS?' This is a contradiction. If you want to
solve the problems you must look back to Quran and Sunnah. I think the
attitude of 'getting off the Koran for a while' is the main problem with
Muslims around the world.
>about. And crap like Ali Swabi and the MSU backing of David Irving
>really put me over the edge, and just pissed me off.
I don't think that anything Ali Swabi said can be called 'crap'. If you
think something is 'crap' why don't you use Quran and Sunnah to prove it? A
true Muslim judges things by the Quran and Sunnah. If your method of
judging things is different than this then let us know now. If you want to
successfully argue any point with a Muslim you have to provide Islamic
proof.
>much). It is right-winged, fanatical, idiotic scums like you that give

>Muslims a bad name. Not to mention Muslims around the world are in such
>bad shape because of people liek you.
Why are you so worried about Muslims having a bad image? The Kuffar will
always hate us and portray us in a bad way. The Quran confirms this. We
still have to deal justly with them but don't give me this Uncle Tom
mentality of kissing up to Kafirs. Again, the real reason why Muslims as
well as Non-muslims are in such bad shape around the world is because they
have stopped following Quran and Sunnah.
> I have seen this type of pompous and prejudice in many Islam
>communites I have visited. All they do is quarell between themselves and
>make crude reamark about Jews, Christians, Hindus, etc.... It is not
>ironic that Muslims areound the wolrld are in such bad shape, we cannot
>live as a community but we jump at the chance to poke fun at other
This is true. Some Muslims waste too much time just bad-mouthing other
people. The constructive way to show that we are better than the others is
to invite them to Islam and prove to them that they are wrong. Just calling
names is a waste of time. I agree with you on this point.
>people. AS a matter of fact, jews, as a whole, are far more successful

>the we are. Do our prejudices containg a little bit of jealousy? I do
>not know the answer to that, but is surely an interesting thought. We
Jews are successful? At what- stealing the land of the Muslims and driving
them out? According to Allah, success is following Islam. The Jews are
totally unsuccessful unless they follow Islam. Material success means
nothing in the eyes of Allah.
>should work closely with and cooperate with people of other religions,
>at a local and international level, and with political differences
>aside. This could accomplish a lot for everybody involved, and it will
>surely make this place a better place to live. WE must also learn to
>live with ourselves, before we can even start to critic
If you look at the example of the Prophet (saaws), you will see that he was
given many offers to cooperate with the Quraysh politically and
religiously. However there are many examples of him rejecting all such
offers. All you have to do is read your Islamic history. Muhammad (saaws)
was awesome and he is our role model. Everything we do should be based on
his actions. Otherwise don't call yourself a Muslim. If you say Muhammad
(saaws) is the messenger of Allah then let's not just say it and leave it
at that. Belief means action. If you believe it then act on it. If he
rejected cooperation with other religions than who are you to contradict
him? Wasn't he offered kingship over the Quraysh who were Kafirs and they
Page 12
IRVING.TXT
told him he could rule how he wanted? Couldn't he have accepted that offer
and cooperated with them? But he didn't. He said that even if they put the
Sun in his right hand and the moon in his left hand he would not give in.
They tried to divert him from Islam by giving him kingship and he rejected!
How can we come along now even think of proposing the opposite?
How do you cooperate with a kafir who bases his/her laws on something other
than Allah? The Quran clearly says:
"And rule between them by that which Allah revealed to you, and do not
follow their whims and beware that they may deviate you away from some of
which Allah revealed to you." (5:49)
"And if any fail to judge by what Allah has revealed, they are the
wrongdoers." (5:45).
There are many more verses which talk about this but this will do for now.
Thus Islam is our method of ruling. Cooperating with a kafir means you
follow a little of their way and they follow a little of ours. That is
cooperation. That is compromise. We can't do that. The best way to help the
world is to show them Islam in its purity, not by mixing Islam with their
messed up systems. Our system is not messed up. We're messed up. We don't
follow Islam anymore. Some of the things you're complaining about are a
result of us not adhering to Islam. If you really want to attack specific
people on this campus then bring legitimate Islamic proof against them. If
you can't then you should look back and evaluate wether your attacks are
really based on Islam or whether they are just your personal opinions.
>Salaam
Walaikum salaam,
Ausaf A. Bari
--
Ausaf A. Bari
From bitttermuslim@uclink.berkeley.edu Wed Feb 8 11:11:12 1995

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Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 10:34:16 -0800
From: bitttermuslim@uclink.berkeley.edu
Message-Id: <199502081834.KAA16431@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Apparently-To: msu@ocf.Berkeley.EDU
Status: R
TO FARHAN: If you do that, then you are going to be taking away my free speech
rights.
TO AUSAF AND SUMAIR: I read your responses, and will respond to them both later, I
have an exam in a half hour.
From farooqam Wed Feb 8 11:19:31 1995

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Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 11:18:52 -0800
From: Farooq Muzaffar <farooqam>
Message-Id: <199502081918.AA02345@lightning.berkeley.edu>
To: msu@ocf
Subject: bitter and free speech
Status: R
Page 13
IRVING.TXT
isn't it funny how bitter is partially bitter because some people say somethings
that bitter opposes and is also partially bitter because some people supported
Irving's "right to free speech." yet, bitter does not want his/her free speech taken
away and also compares him/her self with that icon of muslim intolerance of free
speech: salman rushdie. should we shout? should we scream? maggie, what happened to
the new world dream? maybe its just me.
farooq
From bittermuslim@uclink.berkeley.edu Wed Feb 8 14:04:04 1995

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From: bittermuslim@uclink.berkeley.edu
Message-Id: <199502081927.LAA01358@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Farooq: I have no idea what you just wrote, but I am in no way comparing myselfto
Salman Rushdie, I only brought him into the letter is to integrate the idea of my
rights to free speech, just like David Irving and Salman Rushdie
Status: R
From nizar@cory.EECS.Berkeley.EDU Wed Feb 8 14:58:08 1995

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Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 13:54:21 -0800 (PST)
From: ABDALLA_NIZAR_ABDEL-RAHMAN <nizar@cory.EECS.Berkeley.EDU>
Sender: ABDALLA_NIZAR_ABDEL-RAHMAN <nizar@cory.EECS.Berkeley.EDU>
Reply-To: ABDALLA_NIZAR_ABDEL-RAHMAN <nizar@cory.EECS.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: A few thoughts ...
To: msu@ocf
Message-Id: <Pine.3.87.9502081232.A10728-0100000@cory.EECS.Berkeley.EDU>
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Status: R
Assalammu 'alaikum,
The great Nizar is about to speak! So all must listen.
Just kidding. Actually I just wanted to voice my opinion

regarding this whole David Irving thing.
To start off with, I'll just let everyone know where I stand on
this issue. I was against a strong Muslim presence at the event. However I
didn't care if any individual chose to go and seek knowledge. After all if
there is any substance to this guy's information, it is very important
that we know about it.
But unfortunately, a strong Muslim presence is what happened (
Maybe unfortuanately is the wrong word). In the world we live in today, I
think it would do us more harm than good to be associated with the likes
of the obviously racist Irving. It doesn't help our image in any way if we
are associated with such a controversial figure (Yes I know I shouldn't
care what other think of me and my deen, after all if they have a problem
with my deen then they can go to hell for all I care. But when there is
such controversy involved in attending such an event that is not
directly related to my religious beliefs, why take risks? Why give
them more wood to fuel their hatred towards us? Kinda reminds me
about a quote by some Yahoodi pig in Israel that I heard of when the PLO
Page 14
IRVING.TXT
supported Iraq during the gulf war:" The Palestinians never miss an
opportunity to miss an opportunity". We should learn how to take the right
opportunities)
Yet no one can claim the right to control how many Muslims go to the
event, and I realize that. So, I would have rather no one went. But , I
felt during the week preceding the event, with all the hoopla surrounding it
that Muslims were ENCOURAGED to go, as if this was an extremely important
Muslim issue.
Yes it is an issue. But I think we should do our learning
from this Irving guy at a distance. His information might help the Muslim
struggle in the long run. For the solution to our problems is not what the two
bitter brothers (or sisters) are implying: assimilation (I don't
mean to put words in your mouths.correct me if I am wrong , but that's
the impression that I got), but strenghtening ourselves and confronting
the enemies of Allah until we achieve victory. I know I sound like I am
contradicting myself by that last confrontation statement, but I think we
should take things one step at a time. I don't think we can afford to be
branded anti-semites (Not just yet, anyway. All in due time ;)I've always
thought this term was funny, being part semite myself) when we are so
ununited,as can be seen from our diverse views. Such labels only serve
to cause further disunity as some of us seek to dissassociate ourselves from
what should be our "common goal".
In summary: Sumair and Ausaf I agree with you guys on the need to
gain knowledge from this guy. I just don't know if the way we went about it
was the best way. Bitter, I agree that we shouldn't have been as open in
our support, at least not in this day and age. But seriously, there is
nothing that you should be really bitter about.
Wassalammu 'alaikum warahmattallah
Your Brother in Islam
Nizar Abdalla
PS Farhan: Although I would prefer that Bitter let us know who we were
talking to (We don't bite), please don't start censoring this forum. I
kinda like these stimulating exchanges (as long as they don't deteriorate
to name calling)
From daemon Thu Feb 9 06:32:45 1995

Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 06:32:39 -0800
To: sumair
Status: R

550 bogus... User unknown
Page 15
IRVING.TXT

Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 06:32:39 -0800
To: bogus
>From kashif@cafe.berkeley.edu Wed Feb 8 17:24:00 1995

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Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 17:19:49 -0800 (PST)
From: "M.Kashif Qayyum" <kashif@cafe.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: your mail
To: Sumair Mahmood <sumair@ocf>
Cc: msu@ocf.Berkeley.EDU
In-Reply-To: <199502080852.AA26275@planecrash.berkeley.edu>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9502081746.A11068-0100000@cafe.berkeley.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Status: R
>
> By the by, I hope Farhan does not decide to filter stuff like this because I
> think this is awesome. How can we have unity of action until we have unity
> of thought? And if one is more comfortable being anonymous, then so be it.
>
Don't mean to nit-pic what may be perceived as trivialities in a rather

juicy debate, but I'll venture a comment on your unity of thought line.
I'll paraphrase a verse from memory. If you want I can look it up and
give you a refentence.
"God sends down the rain, so that the valleys are in flood with it, each
according to its own capacity."
The Islamic civilization has never thrived under unity of thought. The
first 3 centuries saw around 150 different schools of law alone, not to
mention schools of theology, philosophy, hadeeth, and even grammar. Heck,
to this day there are 7 different readings of the Quran, all equally
authentic.
I'm afraid we are confusing unity of thought with a means of discourse.

Once we have the system to interact our differences; not even
necessarily resolve them, but to extract benefit from the variety, we
will start seeing positive results.
Salaams,
Kashif Q.
From kashif@cafe.berkeley.edu Wed Feb 8 17:33:19 1995

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id AA17620; Wed, 8 Feb 95 17:27:35 PST
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 17:27:35 -0800 (PST)
From: "M.Kashif Qayyum" <kashif@cafe.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: your mail
To: msu@ocf
In-Reply-To: <199502081834.KAA16431@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9502081728.A11068-0100000@cafe.berkeley.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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On Wed, 8 Feb 1995 bitttermuslim@uclink.berkeley.edu wrote:
> TO FARHAN: If you do that, then you are going to be taking away my free speech
rights.
> TO AUSAF AND SUMAIR: I read your responses, and will respond to them both later,
I have an exam in a half hour.
>
Well you know what they say...
Freedom of the press belongs to those who have one.
The internet is a joint-effort community. No one has any 'right' to

anything there. The operator of a machine can arbitrarily control what
gets said and what doesn't, without interference from the supreme court.
The same rights get transferred to the operators of a mailing list.
Sorry.
Kashif Q.

id RAA04162; Wed, 8 Feb 1995 17:02:57 -0800
Message-Id: <v02110100ab5f19cb26dd@[136.152.69.52]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 17:05:14 -0800
To: ABDALLA_NIZAR_ABDEL-RAHMAN <nizar@cory.EECS.Berkeley.EDU>, msu@ocf
Subject: Re: A few thoughts ...
Status: RO
At 1:54 PM 2/8/95, ABDALLA_NIZAR_ABDEL-RAHMAN wrote:
> In summary: Sumair and Ausaf I agree with you guys on the need to
>gain knowledge from this guy. I just don't know if the way we went about it
>was the best way. Bitter, I agree that we shouldn't have been as open in
>our support, at least not in this day and age. But seriously, there is
>nothing that you should be really bitter about.
>Nizar Abdalla
Page 17
IRVING.TXT
Assalamu alaikum,
Brother Nizar, you say in your message that you agree with me on the need
to gain knowledge from David Irving. I think you didn't read my email
carefully. I never said anything concerning David Irving. I was always
against going to hear him speak. I want to clarify that.
-Ausaf
--
Ausaf A. Bari
From nizar@cory.EECS.Berkeley.EDU Wed Feb 8 19:32:54 1995

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Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 18:48:06 -0800 (PST)
From: ABDALLA_NIZAR_ABDEL-RAHMAN <nizar@cory.EECS.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: Re: A few thoughts ...
To: Ausaf Ahmad Bari <aquraish@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Cc: msu@ocf
In-Reply-To: <v02110100ab5f19cb26dd@[136.152.69.52]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.87.9502081806.B1964-0100000@cory.EECS.Berkeley.EDU>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Status: RO
On Wed, 8 Feb 1995, Ausaf Ahmad Bari wrote:
> Assalamu alaikum,

>
> Brother Nizar, you say in your message that you agree with me on the need
> to gain knowledge from David Irving. I think you didn't read my email
> carefully. I never said anything concerning David Irving. I was always
> against going to hear him speak. I want to clarify that.
>
> -Ausaf
>
> --
> Ausaf A. Bari
> aquraish@uclink.berkeley.edu
>
Assalammu alaikum,
Br. Ausaf, I am really sorry for the misunderstanding on my part. It's

just that with all this mail surrounding the event last week, I guess I
must have subconciously (and rather dangerously) classified them as pro
or anti-Bitter. (Even though I didn't think my letter was either). So my
Summary at the bottom of my letter should have read I agree with Sumair
in that we should gain knowledge from Irving. I sincerely apologize for
this misunderstanding.
Wassalam,
Nizar
Page 18
IRVING.TXT
PS Incidently I went back and read your letters and found that I am in
agreement with your views.
Page 19
FEAR.TXT
From farhan@uclink.berkeley.edu Thu Feb 16 10:52:03 1995
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Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 10:36:32 -0800 (PST)
From: Farhan Ahmed Syed <farhan@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Subject: fear
To: msu@ocf
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9502161025.D12635-0100000@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Status: RO
Salaams.
An interesting article i picked up from MSA-net. Apologies to
those of you who've already received it.
It deals with fear. I see a lot of it among themuslims here in
the U.S. I see a lot of it among the muslims here in Berkeley. They
call it common sense, or "protecting my future". It is basically fear.
Salaams,
Farhan
-----------------------------------
Posting No. 8)) from: "SUHEIL I. LAHER" <LAHER1@MUVMS6.MU.WVNET.EDU>
Sent: Wed, 15 Feb 1995 08:52:57 -0400 (EDT)
Subject:Fear
Number: msa/15Feb95/13030 <Message Length: 56 lines>

Bismillah Walhamdulillah Was Salaatu Was Salaam 'ala Rasulillah
Something to think about.
THERE CAN BE NO ISLAM WITH FEAR
It is the chronic disease which has incapacitated

generations of Muslims and come between them and the fulfilling
of their duty. It is the disease of fear. Fear for one's life,
for one's family, for one's job, or for one's wealth. It
shackles the hands of its victim so that he becomes unable to
repel wrong. It is a fear which muzzles its victim's mouth,
turning him into a mute devil who does not defend his religion
nor dares to speak the truth before the rulers. It is a fear
which paralyzes the mind of its victim so that afterwards he does
not see the truth as true nor the falsehood as false. It is a
fear which engulfs the heart of its victim so that he makes no
movement nor does he rush to confront disbelief and hypocrisy;
rather, he is weighed down to the ground with many varied reasons
and excuses.
Therefore, people should know that the price of fear and the
cost of feebleness are both exorbitant. Some people in the
Persian Gulf feared for their wealth and treasures and therefore
flattered the kings and the rulers and in fact, found excuses for
them. The result of this was that their countries were
transformed into American protectorates which the crusaders
manipulate in whatever way they wish. Their treasures were
snatched away from them under the excuse of defrayment of
expenses for the hired troops.
Nor were the people of Iraq of any better status. The
people did not change the wrong out of fear for their lives.
They were reluctant to pay the price for honor and dignity. They
Page 1
FEAR.TXT
became feeble before the tyranny of Saddam, the great butcher and
the chief of criminals. People thought it too much to put
forward the price of one or two thousand (lives) to liberate
themselves and to draw nearer to Allah, the One, the Supreme.
Thus the Lunatic of Iraq squandered more than 1.5 million lives
and hundreds of millions of dinars in pursuit of his foolhardy
adventures and desires.
What then is the condition of the youth of the Islamic
revival who boast of their efforts for this religion and of
sacrifice for the Lord of the Worlds. And yet they think every
cry is upon them. These people saw the "Jihad in America"
broadcast on television and rushed, without caring about
anything, to trim their beards and then went out in front of
people with smooth, delightful faces, thinking that this was the
peak of subtlety and the ultimate in intelligence.
The cowards see cowardice as reason,
And that is the treachery of the depraved disposition.
You should know, my brothers, that the command of this
religion will never reach a peak, nor will all the nations follow
its guidance, except on the shoulders of men whose hearts are
devoid of any semblance of fear and traces of weakness. The flag
of tawheed will never be entrusted except to those who proceed in
spite of conspiracies and trials. So, despicable indeed is the
one who is weak and cowardly, and blessed is every mujahid in the
path of his religion who considers the price cheap.
___________________________
LAHER1@MUVMS6.MU.WVNET.EDU
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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IRVING.

though this is in no way an msu or isc (officially) sponsored event, you

why Irving? because he may be able to teach us a little something about

From bittermuslim@uclink2.berkeley.edu Sat Feb 4 22:57:21 1995

From bittermuslim@uclink2.berkeley.edu Sat Feb 4 23:52:50 1995

IN my last letter I mean anti-semetic (NOT HOMOPHOBE).

From zahir@uclink2.berkeley.edu Sun Feb 5 21:02:22 1995

"Bitter Muslim" if you are out there, this is for you.

Salaam Alaikum brother,

On Sat, 4 Feb 1995

From sumair Sun Feb 5 23:45:51 1995

Bitter Muslims Write:

us-Salaamu-'Alaykum ya Kawm al-Muslimeen!

I bear witness that, to the best of my ability, I accept no authority in

(4) Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar:

(5) Narrated Abu Huraira:

(6) Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar:

Obviously the most authentic of authentic of authentic Islamic

As to the David Irving Case Itself:

One of the ironies of the last demonstration against Irving was

Question #2: Are we denying the Holocaust?

No. We're simply trying to remove the ideological foundation

(I hope I didn't stray TOO far from the topic!)

From bittermuslim2@uclink.berkeley.edu Mon Feb 6 17:17:42 1995

From farhan@uclink.berkeley.edu Tue Feb 7 18:20:45 1995

By the way, we may stop the "forwarding" system and go back to

From bittermuslim@uclink.berkeley.edu Tue Feb 7 18:20:44 1995

Okay, Sumeir, I understand all that you wrote, I am not

From sumair Wed Feb 8 00:53:21 1995

>From daemon Wed Feb 8 00:09:10 1995

----- Transcript of session follows -----

----- Unsent message follows -----

Some of my concerns for you:

(2) A point well-received. We Muslims should be careful about remarks

>From daemon Wed Feb 8 00:47:06 1995

----- Transcript of session follows -----

----- Unsent message follows -----

thanks for being patient and reading this through!

From aquraish@uclink.berkeley.edu Wed Feb 8 03:06:25 1995

On Mon Feb 6 17:17:39 1995, bittermuslim2@uclink.berkeley.edu wrote:

From aquraish@uclink.berkeley.edu Wed Feb 8 04:06:26 1995

At 3:34 PM 2/7/95, bittermuslim@uclink.berkeley.edu wrote:

In the Name of Allah, Most Merciful, Most Compassionate,

> Okay, Sumeir, I understand all that you wrote, I am not

>much). It is right-winged, fanatical, idiotic scums like you that give

>people. AS a matter of fact, jews, as a whole, are far more successful

From bitttermuslim@uclink.berkeley.edu Wed Feb 8 11:11:12 1995

From farooqam Wed Feb 8 11:19:31 1995

From bittermuslim@uclink.berkeley.edu Wed Feb 8 14:04:04 1995

From nizar@cory.EECS.Berkeley.EDU Wed Feb 8 14:58:08 1995

The great Nizar is about to speak! So all must listen.

Just kidding. Actually I just wanted to voice my opinion

Wassalammu 'alaikum warahmattallah

Your Brother in Islam

From daemon Thu Feb 9 06:32:45 1995

----- Transcript of session follows -----

----- Unsent message follows -----

>From kashif@cafe.berkeley.edu Wed Feb 8 17:24:00 1995

Don't mean to nit-pic what may be perceived as trivialities in a rather

I'm afraid we are confusing unity of thought with a means of discourse.

From kashif@cafe.berkeley.edu Wed Feb 8 17:33:19 1995

On Wed, 8 Feb 1995 bitttermuslim@uclink.berkeley.edu wrote: