JACKSON V AEGLive June 10th Brandon "Randy" Phillips-CEO OF AEGLIVE

JACKSON V AEG Live June 10th
05/28/13 Please help us!

Brandon Randy Phillips
(CEO of AEG Live)
Plaintiffs Adverse Witness.
Continued direct examination by Brian Panish:
Q. Mr. Phillips, did you get a chance to meet with your lawyers over the last four days?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. Did you review some more documents?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. How many more documents did you review to refresh your recollection?
A. Probably eight to ten.
Q. Were those emails?
A. Yes.
Q. What were they about?
A. They were just emails that we've looked at already in this case. Just whatever exhibits from your
exhibit list. Exhibits from your exhibit list.
Q. You looked at the exhibit list?
A. No. Exhibits -- I assume they're exhibits from your exhibit list.
Q. How do you know that?
A. That was an assumption.
Q. So what were the exhibits, the emails about that you read?
A. Uhm, the "trouble at the Front" emails. That chain of emails. I'm not sure what else we looked at.
Q. How many hours did you spend this time?
A. Four hours over the weekend.
Q. Four more hours. So we're up to now 36.5 hours?
A. I'm not keeping track.
Q. I'm keeping track. 36.5.
A. Okay.
Q. Okay, sir, the week before Michael Jackson died, were you jittery?
A. The week before he died? The week of the I wasn't jittery, but I was getting concerned about the
rehearsal schedule and running out of time.
Q. Have you reviewed any emails where Mr. Leiweke and Mr. Beckerman discuss you as being jittery?
A. I think Dan Beckerman described me as being jittery in one of those emails you're referring to.
Q. My question was: Did you review any emails where you were described as being jittery?
A. Yes.
Q. And did that refresh your recollection about your demeanor that week?
A. Yes.
Q. All right. I want to show you exhibit no. 319 and ask you if this is the email you're referring to
(shows document).
A. Yes, it is.
Q. Okay. That refreshed your recollection about your condition that week?
A. That's correct, yes.
Mr. Panish: okay. Let's take a look at that (shows document).
Q. Now, this is -- if you go to the bottom, actually, the last email is on June 20th at 8:47 am, and that's
between Mr. Leiweke and Mr. Beckerman, correct?
A. That is correct.
Q. And this is something you reviewed to refresh your recollection, right?
A. Correct.
Q. And Mr. Leiweke, who is the CEO Of AEG, is telling Mr. Beckerman, who is the CFO, is that right?
A. At this time, CFO and COO.
Q. Okay. And he's telling him: "Trouble with MJ. Big trouble. What are you guys up to tonight?"
Right?
A. Correct.
Q. Okay. And then -- so you had already notified Mr. Leiweke that you were concerned about Mr.
Jackson just five days before he died, is that correct?

A. That is correct.
Q. Okay. And then if we look at the next email, it says -- Mr. Beckerman writes back. And Mr.
Beckerman said: "I figured something might be wrong given how jittery randy has been this week. Is
it 'preshow nerves' bad or 'get a straight jacket/call our insurance carrier' bad? We're around
tonight. Just hanging out."
Now, you've reviewed that, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you say that you were jittery, correct?
A. No. That's Dan Beckerman's description of my demeanor. I didn't feel I was jittery, no.
Q. Okay. You didn't think there was anything abnormal with your demeanor? You were just regular,
how you would always be?
A. Pretty much, other than I was concerned about what was happening at rehearsals.
Q. Well, when you were concerned, could someone see that in your demeanor?
A. It's possible. You'd have to ask them.
Q. Well, do you think Mr. Beckerman was making it up, as he describes you as jittery?
Ms. Stebbins: Objection. Calls for speculation.
Judge: Sustained.
Q. Do you have -- do you think that Mr. Beckerman would be in a position to observe your demeanor?
A. Not necessarily. I don't remember seeing Dan that many times that week, so it's hard to say what
was in his mind when he wrote that.
Q. All I'm asking you is whether or not Mr. Beckerman, how many years have you known him?
A. 12.
Q. And is he someone, in your opinion, who can assess your demeanor, how you look each time he sees
you?
Judge: Overruled.
A. I'm not sure how to answer the question because I'm not in his mind. But, yeah, he could observe me
and have an opinion.
Q. Well, I'm just asking you whether he's observed you enough to comment on your demeanor, in your
opinion?
A. Sure. Sure.
Q. Okay. So you don't believe you were jittery, is that right?
A. No.
Q. You believe Mr. Beckerman would be mistaken, is that right?
A. I'm not sure what "jittery" actually looks like.
Q. Well, if you're not sure what it is, how do you know you weren't jittery?
A. I don't.
Q. Well, you just told me you weren't jittery.
A. Okay. I don't feel that I was jittery, that my demeanor was any different than it normally is, but I was
concerned about what was going on with the rehearsals.
Q. Well, what does jittery mean, then, if you weren't jittery?
A. Shaking, I guess. And I wasn't shaking.
Q. Not as far as you know?
A. That's true.
Q. You weren't going around looking at yourself in the mirror, were you?
A. In the morning.
Q. When you got to work -- was Mr. Beckerman at your house watching you?
A. No.
Q. Okay. You know what a straight jacket is?
A. Oh, yes.
Q. And do you know what "call our insurance carrier bad" is?
A. Well, I have my opinion, reading this email that I'm not copied on.
Q. Okay. Would it be your understanding that "call your insurance bad" means that Michael's not going
to be able to perform, and we need to call the carrier?
A. You know, I would prefer you ask Mr. Beckerman what he meant when he wrote it, because I don't
want to speak for him. But I would imagine that would mean that there were concerns that the show
could not happen, might not happen.
Q. Okay. Let's look at the next one. And then this is Mr. Beckerman and Mr. Leiweke, something about
going to a beastie ball for Laura
Wasserman. Do you know what a beastie ball is?
A. I don't know what a beastie ball is. It's obviously an event that was honoring Casey Wasserman's
wife, Laura.
Q. And it says: "He is having a mental breakdown."
Do you see that?
A. Yes.
Q. Have you ever talked to Mr. Beckerman about this?
A. No.
Q. How about Mr. Leiweke, your good friend?

A. No, because I wasn't copied on this email.
Q. But since you've seen it, have you ever talked to him about it?
A. No.
Q. Did you think you were having a mental breakdown?
Judge: "You," this witness?
Mr. Panish: Yes.
A. No.
Q. So you weren't jittery, you weren't having a mental breakdown, right?
A. Correct.
Q. Okay. Let's see. I think that's it. All right. Do you know whether Mr. Beckerman and Mr. Leiweke
were referring to you or Mr. Jackson
Having a mental breakdown?
Judge: Sustained.
Q. The question is: Do you know? Do you have an understanding, when you reviewed this and
refreshed your recollection, whether they were referring to you or Mr. Jackson?
Ms. Stebbins: Same Objection. Lacks foundation. He said he hadn't spoken to either of them.
Judge: Sustained.
Mr. Panish: What was the Objection?

Ms. Stebbins: Lacks foundation.
Q. You reviewed this to refresh your recollection, didn't you, sir?
A. Yes.
Q. And did it refresh your recollection about what was occurring during this time frame?
A. It didn't refresh my recollection about these emails because I wasn't on this chain. I didn't receive
them at the time.
Q. I'm going to show you exhibit 302-1. I think I already showed it to you, but -- I did show it to you.
You should have a copy there already. I don't know what happened to
Mr. Panish: Did you take his exhibits?
Q. Well, anyway, your exhibits are gone, so I'll give it to you anyway (shows document). Do you recall
that I showed this to you yesterday?
A. Hold on. (reviewing document.) Yes, I do.
Q. Okay. And we actually briefly discussed this a couple days ago when you told me that Mr. Branca
gave the name of the substance abuse counselor. Remember that?
A. Yeah. I thought he had.
Q. And then I showed you this, and then you corrected the testimony?
A. Correct.
Q. Now, sir, do you know why Mr. Branca would mention substance abuse?
A. No. I have no idea.
Q. And you never asked him that, right?
A. No. I didn't speak to him during this exchange.

Q. Never got the name of the substance abuse counselor, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. Do you know if Mr. Gongaware did?
A. I do not know.
Q. And you didn't do anything in response to this email, correct?
A. No, because we were having a meeting that afternoon. No. The answer is, "no."
Q. Can you read what was written by Mr. Branca? Now, we're here at June 20th at 9:10 in the morning,
okay?
A. "I have the right therapist/spiritual advisor/substance abuse counsellor who could help (recently
helped Mike Tyson get sober and parolled.) Do we know whether there is a substance issue
involved? (perhaps better discussed on the phone)."
Q. Now, you knew that Dr. Murray's initial demand was $5 million, right?
A. Right.
Q. And you knew that Mr. Gongaware had agreed on 150 per month with Dr. Murray, correct?
A. I believe Michael Jackson had agreed to 150 a month.
Q. Sir, did Mr. Gongaware write an email to you saying that it was done at 150,000 a month?
A. It's very possible. You'd have to show it to me again.
Q. Sir, the fact that the doctor was promised $150,000 a month, you think that might be contributing to
any problems Michael Jackson might have?
A. It didn't -- never crossed my mind, no.
Q. All right. And you didn't do anything at that time to find out whether there was a substance abuse
problem, correct?
A. On the morning of the 20th, no.
Q. Is that correct, sir?

A. That's correct.
Q. Okay. Now, sir, Dr. Murray called you around noon on the 20th, correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. And, sir, how long was that telephone conversation with Dr. Murray?
A. It was 25 minutes or so. 23 minutes.
Q. All right. I want to play your deposition and see what you testified under oath there.
Mr. Panish: page 153, line 23, to 155, line 7. And when your counsel is ready, I'm going to show
what you said there, sir. Okay? All right. So let's see what you said, sir.
(Panish plays video clip of Phillips' deposition):
Q. Did you talk to Dr. Murray before the meeting?
A. I vaguely remember having a telephone conversation with him that
Morning.
Q. And what was the content of that conversation?
A. About having about Kenny -- the content of Kenny's email and having a meeting to discuss it.
Q. Okay. So was it just to just tell me everything you can remember about the meeting withdrawn.
Tell me everything you can remember about the phone call. Was it just to schedule the meeting or was
there information conveyed by you to him and him to you?
A. It was -- the bul- -- it was really to schedule the meeting. You
Know, we didn't get into an in-depth discussion about what the issues in the email were.
Q. Okay. So how long did that phone call last, approximately?
A. Three minutes.
Q. Because all you were trying to do was, hey, we need to set up a
Meeting to find out what the problem is?
A. To the best of my knowledge, my conversation with Dr. Murray was
To schedule a meeting.
Q. Now, sir, that testimony wasn't true, was it?
A. To the best of my recollection at the time, that's what I thought the call was. I don't remember it
being that long a call, but then I saw the phone log.
Q. Sir, that testimony that the call lasted three minutes, was not true, was it?
A. It was not correct.
Q. And then when you signed your deposition under penalty of perjury, you didn't change that
testimony, did you, sir?
A. No.
Q. Then you were shown the phone record after that, weren't you, sir?
A. That is correct.
Q. And let's see what you testified to then when you were shown the phone record.
Mr. Panish: and that's page 159, line 19, to 163, line 1. And the phone record is exhibit 5-3094
already in evidence.
(Panish plays video clip of Phillips deposition):
Q. That's your home number?

A. Uh-huh.
Q. So that's the fourth call from the top on that page, right?
A. Correct.
Q. And that reflects -- if you run over to the right side of that, that reflects a call at approximately noon
from Dr. Murray to you?
A. Correct.
Q. And that's consistent with your recollection?
A. Correct.
Q. And the length of time that that call lasted, according to the records, is 1,549 seconds. Do you see
that?
A. Yes.
Q. So it's about 25 minutes?
A. I guess.
Q. That's not consistent with your recollection of how long this call lasted?
A. It didn't seem -- didn't feel like it was that long, based on my memory.
Q. Fair to say that, after looking at this document, that you did more in that conversation than
Schedule a meeting with Dr. Murray?
A. I would say so.
Q. And in fact having looked at this now, you know that you talked to Dr. Murray for 25 minutes on
June 20th before the meeting, correct?
A. That's -- well, that's what it says here.
Q. And you have no reason to dispute that, do you?
A. No.
Q. Tell me what else you talked to Dr. Murray about during that 25-minute period.
A. I don't remember. He might have done most of the talking. I just don't remember.
Q. Well, do you remember him doing most of the talking?
A. I don't remember. I remember the meeting. I don't remember the conversation.
Q. Do you remember raising with him any issues relating to substance dependence?
A. No.
Q. And do you remember giving him any further information about what Mr. Jackson's physical
condition was?
A. No.
Q. Do you remember him telling you anything more about Mr. Jackson's physical condition?
A. I just don't remember the phone call.
Q. Did you say to Dr. Murray that 'you've got to get Mr. Jackson healthy so he's able to do these
tours'?
A. I don't remember.
Q. Do you remember saying to Mr. -- Dr. Murray that 'you need to do something to make sure that Mr.
Jackson doesn't cancel'?
A. No. I just -- I honestly don't remember.
Q. Okay. So other than just scheduling the meeting, you have no recollection of anything else that
happened in that 25-minute phone call?
A. No.
Q. No, I'm correct, you have no recollection?
A. I have no recollection.
Q. You didn't change that in your deposition when you signed it under penalty of perjury, did you?
A. No.
Q. You're still sticking with you don't know anything in that call?
A. I don't remember the call, the context of the call, no.
Q. Okay. Well, would you agree with me that it -- you didn't need 25 minutes talking to Dr. Murray
about setting up a meeting?
A. I would agree with you on that.
Q. And would you agree with me, after you received those emails that we've talked about on Thursday,
that you were concerned about Mr. Jackson's condition?
A. No question.
Q. Would it be reasonable to assume that you would have discussed that with Dr. Murray on this 25-
minute phone conversation?
A. It's very possible I might have even read him those emails.
Q. My question was: Would it be reasonable to assume that you, as a concerned individual about Mr.
Jackson, during this 25-minute conversation, would have brought up Mr. Jackson's health and
discussed it with Dr. Murray?
A. I would not have discussed his health as much as what was in the context of those emails.
Q. All right. That wasn't my question.
Mr. Panish: Could I ask the question be read back, please, your honor?
Judge: You may reread the question.
(the question is read back)
A. It's -- I'm speculating because I don't remember the exact content of the phone call.
Q. So you can't tell us one way or the other whether it would have been reasonable that you, as a
concerned individual about Mr. Jackson's health, would have brought it up with Dr. Murray, correct?
A. You're asking me if it would have been reasonable? Yes.
Q. For the third time, yes.
A. Yes.
Q. And, sir, how did Dr. Murray get your home phone number?
A. Oh, how he would have my home phone number? There was a list of everyone's home numbers that
was involved in production, and I believe I probably gave him my card and wrote my phone number on
the back of the card.
Q. Well, let's back it up. First of all, anyone in production was given a list of everyone's home phone
numbers, is that right?
A. No, no. You know what? Not the home phone numbers. The cell numbers and the office numbers, if
they had an office. I believe -- well, I would be speculating.
Q. Let's stick with the question, okay?
A. Okay. Go ahead.
Q. You just told me that Dr. Murray would have your home phone number, because everybody
involved in the production got a list with everyone's phone numbers. Did you just say that?
A. Yes.
Q. Now you're saying, oh, that didn't include the home numbers. Is that your testimony?
A. Yeah. Would be the cell number and the office number, if that existed.
Q. So Dr. Murray, as being someone involved in the production, would have gotten this list with
everyone's phone numbers, correct?
A. Most likely.
Q. Well, that's what you just testified under oath, isn't it, sir?
A. Well, I didn't hand him a list. I assume it would be.
Q. That would be the protocol, the custom and habit, anyone involved with AEG Live in this
production gets a list of the other people's phone numbers; right?
A. Could have been given to him by Michael Amir Williams, could have been given to him by Michael
Jackson. I don't know. I didn't give him the list.
Q. Sir, could you please answer my question?
A. Yes.
Q. You just told me that everyone involved in the production got a list of phone numbers, didn't you?
A. Correct.
Q. Is that true testimony?
A. To the best of my knowledge, yes.
Q. Okay. So Dr. Murray would have got a list, as you said, just like everyone else involved in the
production, correct?
A. That's not my answer.
Q. That's what you --
A. I --
Q. You want me to read back what you said under oath?
A. No. It's okay. I just don't know how he got -- if someone gave it to him formally as part of
Production, or someone connected with Michael. I don't know. I didn't give it to him, so I just don't
know.
Q. But you testified -- you want to change your testimony now, sir? I didn't say it. It wasn't part of my
question. You volunteered that information.
A. I know. Now I'm clarifying it.
Q. All right. So let's say -- so you gave Dr. Murray -- or -- no. You're saying now that that list with all
the phone numbers didn't have anyone's home numbers on it? Is that your testimony under oath?
A. It may have had some people's home numbers. It wouldn't have had my phone number.
Q. You know that? You've seen the list?
A. No.
Q. Well, how do you know your home phone number wasn't on it?
A. Because I generally don't use it that much and don't give it out.
Q. You gave it out to Dr. Murray, didn't you?
A. It's very possible that I left a message for him on his machine, if that exists, or Frank Dileo gave him
my home number to call me. I'm not sure.
Q. You don't know who gave him your phone number, according to your testimony?
A. That's correct.
Q. But you just testified three minutes ago that you gave him the number, and he wrote it on the back of
your card, right?
A. I gave him my cell number on the back of the card.
Q. Well, you just said your home number, didn't you, sir?
A. I made a mistake.
Q. So you're changing that testimony?
A. I'm clarifying my testimony, Mr. Panish.
Q. Well, okay. Because you know on the back of the card that the police found in Dr. Murray's car, your
card had your cell phone number written on it, didn't it, sir?
A. I learned that after the fact.
Q. Well, let me show you exhibit 500-326. When you told Dr. Murray your cell phone, did you watch
him write it on the back of your card, sir?
A. Usually, I write it on the back of my card.

Q. Okay. Well, sir, didn't you testify under oath that you wrote
your phone number on the back of the card and gave it to Dr. Murray?
A. That would be standard for me, yes.
Q. That wasn't my question, sir.
A. Yes. The answer is, "yes."
Q. My question is: Did you testify under oath that you wrote on the back of your card your phone
number and handed it to Dr. Murray?
A. Yes.
Q. When did you do that, sir?
A. It would have been during the first meeting we had at the house.
Q. And that was either late May, early June or mid June, right?
A. Early to mid June.
Q. But you testified before it was late May, right?
Ms. Stebbins: Objection. Misstates the testimony.
Phillips: I believe it was early --
Judge: Let me rule on the Objection.
Phillips: Sorry, your honor.
Judge: Misstates his earlier testimony where?
Ms. Stebbins: The earlier testimony, your honor, was that it may have been late May or early
June. He never testified that it was late May.
Judge: I wasn't asking that. I was asking, was it at deposition or here at trial?
Ms. Stebbins: In the deposition, your honor. At trial he said "early to mid June."
Judge: Okay. Why don't you reask the question.

Q. Sir, you testified under oath in your deposition, it was either late may or early June, right?
A. That is correct.
Q. And you never changed that testimony, did you?
A. No, sir.
Q. So for me to say, "late May or early June," that doesn't misstate your testimony under oath that you
affirmed, does it, sir?
A. No. But I qualified it here.
Q. You changed it here, right? Isn't it right?
A. I clarified it.
Q. Did you change it?
A. I clarified it.
Q. Well -- do you have the same cell phone number now, sir?
A. No.
Q. All right. Well, what is that exhibit number? Since it's not your number, I want to clarify that it's
your handwriting, that you wrote it. And you wanted Dr. Murray to call you whenever he needed to talk
to you, right?
A. That would have been standard procedure for me, yes.
Q. Is that what you'd normally do with doctors that you deal with on tours: give them your cell phone
number on the back of your card?
A. I've never dealt with a doctor on a tour, so this would be the first time. But I would do it with
The sound guy, with an agent.
Q. You give them your home phone number, also?
A. No.
Q. Does anyone call you at your home from the production?
A. Paul could.
Q. "Paul" is Mr. Gongaware?
A. Gongaware. Any of the executives at AEG would have my --
Q. The only ones that call you at home are executives at AEG And Dr. Murray for this tour, right?
A. No. That's not what I --
Q. Who else was calling you?
A. Frank Dileo had my home phone number.
Q. Did Frank Dileo call you at home, sir?
A. Yes.
Q. When?
A. I believe -- he either called me at home or on my cell phone, but it was that morning on the 20th.
Q. Sir, we're talking about your home now.
A. I understand.
Q. We established that Dr. Murray called you at your home. What I want to know is, who else from this
tour was calling you at your home, that you remember, if anyone?
A. Many people called me at home from AEG Live, so I don't --
Q. Relating to the tour, sir.
A. I can't remember.
Q. The only one you can remember is Dr. Murray, correct?
A. No. I believe Frank called me on my home phone.
Q. When?
A. A couple of times during the course of the tour in preparations for the tour.
Q. In April?
A. No. Probably in May.
Q. "Probably." You sure about that?
A. I'm not 100 percent sure. I'd have to look at my home phone records.
Q. I want to show this to you. I don't have a copy, I apologize, but everyone's seen it. The number is
665-121 (shows document). Can you identify that handwriting for us, sir?
A. That is my handwriting.
Mr. Panish: All right. Let's put that up.
Q. And this is on the back of your card, what you wrote, for Dr. Murray, right?
A. Correct.
Q. Okay. All right. Now, sir, you talked to Dr. Murray -- strike that. After you talked to Dr. Murray, you
got another email from Mr. Ortega, correct?
A. I believe so.
Q. Well, let's play your deposition. 181, line 7, to 182, line 1. And before I do that, I'm going to reshow
you -- I think I've already showed this to you -- 307-1 6544 and 2. I don't know what happened to it. I'll
give you another copy. (shows document)
A. Thank you.
Q. Okay. And you've seen that, right?
A. Hold on.
Q. Yes?
A. Hold on one second. Let me read it.
Q. Okay. No problem.
A. (reading document) Yes.

Q. Okay. Now, this was at -- email from --
Judge: What's the exhibit number?
Mr. Panish: It's 307, your honor.
Judge: All right.
Mr. Panish: 1 through 4. And the email I'm referring to first is at 1:20 in the afternoon, and it
starts on page 307-2. And before I get to that, I want to play your testimony. So that's 181/7 to
182, line 1.
(Panish plays video clip from Phillips deposition):
Q. And then Mr. Ortega's response to you at 1:20 that day, June 20th, was that he was at home waiting
for your call or instruction. So it's fair to say that the meeting had to happen sometime after 1:20?
A. Yes.
Q. All right. And at least Mr. Ortega wrote, 'I honestly don't think he is ready for this based on his
continued physical weakening and
deepening emotional state', right?
A. Correct.
Q. And when he wrote there about the -- that 'this is reminiscent of
What Karen, Bush, Travis and I remembered just before he fainted,
Causing the HBO concerts to be canceled,' do you know what he meant?
A. No.
Q. Did you ask him?
A. No.
Q. When Mr. Ortega wrote, 'I think the very best thing we can do is get a top psychiatrist in to
evaluate him ASAP,' that's at least
What Ortega was asking?
A. Correct.
Q. Was there any discussion at all about what Dr. Murray's qualifications were in the area of
psychiatry or psychology?
A. No.
Q. Now, sir, is Dr. Murray a psychiatrist, to your knowledge?
A. No. Not to my knowledge.
Q. I'm sorry. I couldn't --
A. Not to my knowledge, no.
Q. And, sir, Mr. Ortega told you, if you look at the second page of that, that he thought he needed
professional guidance in this matter, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. That's on the second page of the email.
A. Got it.
Q. Now, and I think I asked you, you didn't do anything in that regard, correct?
A. At 9:00 in the morning when I received this, no.

Q. No. At any time you never contacted a psychiatrist?
A. It wouldn't be my place to do that.
Q. Okay. So I guess, then, the answer to the question is, you never contacted a psychiatrist, is that right,
sir?
A. That is correct.
Q. Okay. But you did contact Dr. Murray, correct?
A. Michael's personal physician, yes, I did.
Q. You keep saying that, sir. Let's look at the next email that you wrote where you write back to Mr.
Ortega eight minutes later.
Did you write this email, sir? (shows document)
A. Correct.
Q. Did you ever mention anything in this email about Dr. Murray being Michael Jackson's personal
physician?
A. I wouldn't, because Kenny knew that.
Q. Excuse me, sir?
A. The answer is, "no."
Q. Did you ever write anything like, "Hey, we shouldn't be doing anything. This is Mr. Jackson's
personal physician"? Did you write that?
A. No.
Q. Okay. Let's start at the bottom of this email. Why don't you read the last paragraph for me, sir?
A. Okay. Of this -- just this email, just that email? You mean the next-to-last paragraph?
Q. No. "I am."
A. "I am" --
Q. Is that the last paragraph?

A. Yes. It's being highlighted now. "I am meeting with him today at 4:00 pm at the Forum. Please
stay steady. Enough alarms have sounded. It's time to put out the fire, not burn down the building.
Sorry for all the analogies."
Q. All right. So you're telling Mr. Ortega you're going to meet with him at 4:00, right, at the Forum?
A. At this time, that's what I thought we were going to do.
Q. That meeting never happened, right?
A. No.
Q. Is that correct?
A. It never happened at the forum.
Q. Correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And then you say, "please stay steady." are you trying to tell Mr. Ortega, don't worry, stay steady?
A. Basically, yes.
Q. And then you say, "enough alarms have sounded." in other words, you've said enough in those
emails, relax, stay steady, don't be worried, right?
A. Yes. And let's have the meeting.
Q. And what?
A. And the intent, the reason I said that is we were going to have this meeting and find out exactly what
the problem was.
Q. Okay. Well, in fact, you were going to find out -- "it's time to put out the fire." okay. What was "the
fire"? Michael's condition?
A. Based on the emails I had received from Kenny and from John Houghdahl, yes, it was Michael's
condition at the rehearsal the night before.
Q. And then you write, "time to put out the fire, not burn the building down." so when there's a fire, is
that a serious matter, a fire?
A. Yeah. It would be considered a serious matter.
Q. And to "burn the building down" would mean to pull the plug on the concert, wouldn't it?
A. Yes, correct. That is correct.
Q. Okay. And then could you read the next paragraph? "It is critical."
A. "It is critical that we surround mike with love and support and listen to how he wants to get ready
for July 13th. You cannot imagine the harm and ramifications of stopping this now. It would far
outweigh calling this game in the 7th inning. I'm not just talking about AEG's interest here but the
myriad of stuff and lawsuits swirling around MJ that I crisis manage every day and also his well-
being."
Q. The last thing you say is "his well-being", right?
A. In that sentence.
Q. In that paragraph?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. Well, then, if we go up, the sentence that starts "This doctor," the last thing you said is: "so
he" -- and I assume you meant to say "is" -- "totally unbiased and ethical." Did you mean to say "is" in
there?
A. "Does not need this gig, so he is totally unbiased" -- yes.
Q. So you just slipped that word, right? You forgot to put it in?
A. Yeah. Typo.
Q. So if somebody -- so you raised whether this doctor was biased or unethical or unbiased and ethical,
didn't you, sir?
A. In this email, yes.
Q. Because that's because Dr. Murray had told you that if he were to do something or call someone
else in, that would hasten Michael's decline, wouldn't it?
A. No. That's not what he meant. He meant if we "pulled the plug," as you put it, or stopped the
production, that that would hasten Michael's decline. That was my understanding.
Q. Did you discuss with Dr. Murray pulling the plug as an option?
A. No.
Q. Well, then, how do you know Dr. Murray meant pull the plug?
A. Because he was responding to Kenny's email.
Q. Well, sir, you talked only -- you're the only one that was on the phone during that 25-minute
conversation with Dr. Murray, isn't that true?
A. That's correct.
Q. Just you -- and you didn't tell anyone else, other than Mr. Ortega in this writing, what you and Dr.
Murray talked about, correct?
A. No, because we were going to meet that afternoon. I was asking Kenny to attend this meeting.
Q. Sir, that was not my question. My question was: You didn't write to anyone what you spoke to Dr.
Murray about except Mr. Ortega, correct?
A. That is correct.
Q. And 25 minutes, to you, would be a lengthy conversation, wouldn't it?
A. In retrospect, yes.
Q. And it would be a lot more than a 3-minute conversation to set up a meeting, correct?
A. That is correct.
Q. And you tell Mr. Ortega that Dr. Murray said that Mike -- discouraging Michael will hasten his
decline instead of stopping it, correct?
A. That's what I wrote, correct.
Q. Right. That was -- did you make that up?

A. No. I was probably reflecting my conversation with Dr. Murray.
Q. Well, sir, you don't remember what happened in the conversation. The only thing we know is what
you wrote here, right?
A. Correct.
Q. And you wrote, "discouraging him will hasten his decline," didn't you, sir?
A. Yes. That Dr. Murray said that, yes.
Q. Right. So Dr. Murray was telling you that Michael, at five days before his death, was on a decline,
wasn't he, sir, according to what you wrote here?
A. That's based -- I was reflecting what he said, yes.
Q. So Dr. Murray told you five days before Michael's death that he was on a decline, right?
A. I don't remember the extent of the conversation, but I did put it in this email.
Q. Did you make that up and lie to Mr. Ortega?
A. No. I don't lie.
Q. You don't think you did, or you didn't?
A. No. I said, "I don't lie."
Q. You don't lie? Okay. So a decline is the same thing as someone
Deteriorating, isn't it, sir?
A. I -- I don't know what the definition the distinction is between the two words.
Q. There really isn't any, is there? Someone is declining is the same thing as someone deteriorating,
isn't it?
A. Most likely, yes.
Q. You would agree with that, wouldn't you, sir?
A. Yes.
Q. So now you have Mr. Ortega, Mr. Houghdahl and Dr. Murray telling you, within five days of
Michael's death, that he's deteriorating and declining, correct?
A. I have them telling me within 12 hours of receiving these emails.
Q. Sir, Mr. Houghdahl told you that Michael was deteriorating for eight weeks in front of his eyes,
correct?
A. In an email that I received the night before.
Q. So three people -- a doctor, the show director, and the production manager -- are telling you that
Michael is deteriorating and declining; correct?
A. I don't believe Dr. Murray put it exactly that way --
Q. Well, sir --
A. -- so --
Q. -- you have no recollection --
A. -- no.
Q. -- of what you and Dr. Murray talked about other than what you wrote in this email when you wrote
the truth, right, sir?
A. But he didn't agree with Kenny and John's -- well, john's was really Kenny's observations.
Q. You never gave him those emails, did you, sir?
A. Who? Dr. Murray?
Q. Yeah.
A. I may have read them to him. I don't remember.
Q. Well, sir, you don't know what you talked about with Dr. Murray, so how could you say you might
have read them? You have no idea what you talked to Dr. Murray about during that lengthy
conversation, do you?
A. No. But Frank may have sent him the emails.
Mr. Panish: Move to strike. Speculation. No foundation.

Judge: Motion granted. The answer is stricken.
Q. Now, sir, when you say now here's a doctor that's, according to you, telling you that discouraging
Michael to perform or go to practice would hasten his decline, correct?
A. That's what he said.
Q. According to what you wrote, right?
A. Correct.
Q. And then you say that "doctor's extremely successful (we check everyone out) and does not need
this gig, so he is totally unbiased and ethical", correct?
A. That's what I felt at the time I wrote that, yes.
Q. And this is a doctor that's telling you that this performer's health is in a decline, correct?
A. He did not say that. He said if we stopped the production, it would -- he felt it would hasten his
decline.
Q. What does it mean to hasten something, sir?
A. To accelerate as opposed to stop it or turn it around.
Q. He's already in a decline if you're hastening his decline, isn't that true, sir?
A. No. I know I have to answer "yes" or "no," but this email came a couple of hours before we were
having a meeting.
Q. Sir, this doctor told you, according to you -- because you have no recollection other than what you
wrote -- that discouraging him will hasten his decline. That means he's already on a decline, doesn't it,
sir?
A. That means there was an issue. Dr. Murray -- we were setting up a meeting with Michael, with Dr.
Murray. I didn't know what the issue was.

Q. Sir, you wrote "it's going to hasten his decline" instead of "stopping the decline," didn't you, sir?
A. Correct. Correct.
Q. Now, sir -- then you say, "this doctor is extremely successful", right?
A. Correct.
Q. You didn't know anything about Dr. Murray's qualifications at this time, did you, sir?
A. No. I had nothing to do with hiring him.
Q. Pardon me?
A. I had nothing to do with Dr. Murray's -- with the negotiations. I had nothing to do with that.
Q. If you stop production, Dr. Murray would no longer get paid, would he?
A. I don't believe we were paying him at that point in time.
Q. If you stopped production, Dr. Murray would not get paid, would he, sir?
A. He wasn't getting paid at that point. He hadn't signed his contract.
Q. Could you answer the question, please? If you stopped production, Dr. Murray would never get
paid, would he, sir?
Ms. Stebbins: Objection. Lacks foundation as to who is paying.
Judge: Overruled.
Phillips: I can't answer the question the way you're phrasing it.
Q. Now, both Mr. Houghdahl and Mr. Ortega said to you they felt that Mr. Jackson needed a psychiatric
evaluation, correct?
A. That is correct.
Q. And they had much more contact with Mr. Jackson than you, correct?
A. That is correct.
Q. And Mr. Ortega was expressing to you his concern was much more than Michael's lack of focus,
correct?
A. I'd have to read the email.
Q. You don't remember?
A. I'd have to read the email now that you're referring to it.
Q. Well, you ready?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. When you said, "Dr. Murray was extremely successful," you didn't have any information
about whether he was successful or not, did you, sir?
A. No. It was my opinion based on the fact that he had multiple clinics in multiple states, and he was
looking to get bought out of those clinics so he could close them down. And I thought he was
successful.
Q. Sir, when you said, "Dr. Murray was extremely successful," you didn't know one way or the other
whether he was successful or not, did you, sir?
A. That is correct.
Q. So when you wrote, "he is extremely successful," that was a false statement upon which you had no
basis to say that, correct?
A. You would call it a false statement, I would call it an assumption I made based on what he was
asking for.
Q. Well, is it true that you knew that Dr. Murray was extremely successful on June 20th at 1:48 in the
afternoon? "yes" or "no"?
A. No. It was an assumption.
Q. So what you wrote you now admit was not true, correct?
A. At the time I thought it was.

Q. Sir, when you wrote, "Dr. Murray is extremely successful," that was not true, was it, sir?
A. In retrospect, correct.
Q. At any time. It's never been true, has it, sir?
A. No.
Q. Okay. Then you say, "We" -- that's AEG Live, correct?
A. Well, I can't answer "at any time." he may have been successful and not good with his money. I have
no idea.
Q. Okay. Well, exactly.
A. Yeah.
Q. So you have no evidence that he was ever successful, despite what you wrote, correct?
A. Other than the assumption I made.
Q. You have no evidence, sir, do you?
A. No.
Q. Okay. So let's go to the next one. "We" -- that's AEG Live, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. -- "check everyone out", correct?
A. Correct.
Q. Did you limit that to who you check out?
A. Well, you have to understand our process. Well, you're asking if I limited it, so I need to answer that
question.
Q. It's easy. Did you limit it or not?
A. No, it's not that easy. It's not that simple.
Q. Sir --
A. Mr. Panish, when we hire third-party vendors, there are three types of vendors we hire: there are
people we worked with in the past. We would not have to check them out because they've had
Experience. There are new people we've never worked with before that will give us references. We will
generally call -- we don't do background checks, and things like that, but we will call to find out if
those references are correct as stated. And then the third thing are vendors, the artists, bring them into a
production with them, and
Those people we would not check out because we would assume the artist had experience with them.
But that's how the process --
Q. Sir, could you answer my question?
A. Yes.
Q. "We check everyone out." That's not true, is it, sir?
A. It's not untrue.
Q. Is "we check everyone out" true or untrue?
A. We check -- it's -- it's just very hard. I'm not being evasive, it's just very hard to answer it, because
we do check people we haven't worked with out before by making phone calls
Judge: Mr. Phillips, listen to the question and answer the question.
Phillips: I will, your honor.
Q. It's real simple. When you wrote, "We" -- AEG Live -- "check
everyone out," is that a true statement or an untrue statement?
A. It's not -- it's hard to say "yes" or "no" on that.
Q. Is it a true statement or an untrue statement, sir? Do you not understand that question?
A. It's not true, because "everyone" would imply everyone, and it's not true.
Q. It's not true, isn't it, sir?
A. That we check everyone out, correct.
Q. Right. What you wrote here now, the second thing you wrote is not true, correct?
A. Correct, in retrospect.
Q. All right. At any time it's not true, isn't it, sir?
A. You're taking it out of context. At the time, I thought it was true.
Q. Sir --
A. It's not what I do.
Q. -- you wrote, "we check everyone out," didn't you?
A. "We" meaning someone in my company.
Q. AEG Live.
A. Would check anyone out if we haven't worked with them before.
Q. Did you say that? "We check everyone out that we haven't worked with before"?
A. No, no.
Q. Had you worked with Conrad Murray before?
A. Never.
Q. Okay. "We check everyone out," AEG checks everyone out, is a false statement that you wrote to
Mr. Ortega, correct?
Q. It's never been true, has it, sir?
A. At the time I wrote it, I thought it was true.
Q. Sir, whether you write something or not, the question is: is it true --
A. No.
Q. -- or not true? Do you think that because you think something is true, you can say it's true?
A. No, but I think you would want my intent, and why I wrote it. But the answer is "no," the answer to
your question.
Q. All I want is the truth, sir. Is it true or untrue?
A. Untrue.
Q. Then you go on to say, "and doesn't need this gig." Did I read that correctly?
A. That is correct.
Q. And that "gig" would be acting as the doctor for Michael Jackson, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And that, sir, you had no basis to say that, did you?
A. Well, it follows the first part of the sentence.
Q. Sir, would you like the question read back?
A. The answer is, "yes."
Mr. Panish: Well, can I ask it be read back, please?
Judge: You may read it back.
A. Correct.
Q. That, again, is an untrue statement, isn't it, Mr. Phillips?
A. In retrospect, based on the information afterwards, yes.
Q. Okay. Well, it was never true, was it, sir?
A. At this time, obviously, it wasn't true.

Q. It was never true when you wrote it, was it, sir?
A. I don't know if that's the case, if it was never true. I don't know him.
Q. As of -- well, but you wrote it was true, and you didn't even know that, correct?
A. Correct. Correct.
Q. So you made another untrue statement in this email to Mr. Ortega, correct?
A. I made another assumption based on information that I thought I had.
Q. Did you say, "I assume the doctor's extremely careful, and I assume we check everyone out, and I
assume he doesn't need this gig"?
A. No.
Q. You were a lot more definitive than that, weren't you, sir?
A. At the time, yes.
Q. You didn't change this email, did you, sir?
A. No.
Q. And then you say, "he's totally unbiased and ethical." you had absolutely no basis to say that, did
you, sir?
A. No.
Q. Is that correct?
A. I didn't have any basis to say he was unbiased and ethical. You have to understand something. The
way --
Q. Just please answer the question.
A. I can't answer "yes" or "no."
Q. Let me rephrase it, sir.
A. To me, doctors are --
Judge: Just --
Q. All doctors are ethical?
A. Well, obviously, that's not true.
Q. No kidding.
A. No.
Q. Now, sir, what would be the opposite of -- could you fill this sentence in for me: he really needs this
gig, so he's totally -- how would you complete that sentence?
A. Biased and unethical, based on what you're saying. But that's not what I wrote.
Q. No. Because you didn't write the truth, did you?
A. At the time I thought that was the truth.
Q. Sir, you did not write the truth?
A. Based on the knowledge I have now, no.
Q. You didn't have any knowledge when you wrote that, that that was true, did you, sir?
A. Just about the negotiations, no.
Q. So when you wrote that statement, you had no knowledge that it was true, correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. Now, sir, and the sole basis for any of your belief about Dr. Murray was the short meeting at the
house, whenever that was, we don't know, right?
A. Uh-huh.
Q. "Yes"?
A. Correct.
Q. And you saw him one time at the Forum, and you didn't talk to him, right?
A. I said, "hello."
Q. Okay. You said, "hello." did that help you determine if he's successful or not, how he responded to
your saying, "hello"?
A. Of course not, Mr. Panish.
Q. And then you had a 25-minute conversation shortly before this email, correct?
A. That is correct.
Q. And that's it. That's all the information you had?
A. Other than what Kathy Jorrie or Paul might have told me about the negotiations, and what he was
asking for, that's correct.
Q. So you were involved in discussing the negotiations with Kathy Jorrie and Paul Gongaware?
A. I wasn't involved. They just mentioned it to me, what was going on.
Q. Okay. When did Ms. Jorrie first mention the negotiations with Dr. Murray with you?
A. Probably sometime in June.
Q. "Probably." Do you know whether she ever mentioned it to you, sir?
A. No. I do know she had.
Q. When?
A. She might be able to testify to that better than I can remember.
Q. I'm just asking you, sir.
A. I don't know.
Q. When did you talk to Mr. Gongaware about the negotiations with Dr. Murray?
A. Uhm, after Michael instructed him to hire him.
Q. And then he told you that he did hire him, didn't he?
A. No.
Q. He never told you that he hired him and had a done deal?
A. What he told me is that Dr. Murray wanted $5 million to buy out his clinics, and Paul told Dr.
Murray there's no way that's going to happen. Paul told Michael what Dr. Murray wanted, and Michael
told Paul, "I will take care of this," and I believe Michael is the one who got Dr. Murray to take this gig
for 150 a month.
Q. You don't know if Michael Jackson ever talked to Dr. Murray, do you, sir?
A. No. I know what Paul told me.
Q. Well, we heard Mr. Gongaware. He testified in this trial. Did you know that?
A. Of course I know.
Q. Did you talk to him about his testimony?
A. Absolutely not.
Q. Now, sir, in response -- let me show you 315-1. Can we go back to that? There's one thing I wanted
to talk about, your email, sir, where you say: "Kenny, it is critical that neither you, me or anyone
around the show become amateur psychiatrists or physicians."
Is that your word, sir?
A. "Or physicians," Yes.
Q. Is that your word, sir, "amateur"?
A. That actually, probably, reflected what Dr. Murray may have said to me in that phone call.
Q. Wait a minute. "May have reflected what he may have said to me on the phone." You don't
remember anything in the call, right?
A. No. But I'm assuming that I didn't come up with that description by myself. It was probably the
result of my conversation with him.
Q. Do you know that, sir?
A. No, I don't.
Q. So far what we've seen, most of your assumptions have been untrue, haven't they, sir?
Ms. Stebbins: Objection. Argumentative.

Judge: Overruled.
A. You may want to characterize them that way, okay? At the time I wrote it, I felt it was the truth.
Q. You already admitted it was all untrue, didn't you, sir?
Q. What does that mean, "in retrospect"? When you wrote it, it was true, and then it turned out to not be
true?
A. I'm trying to testify to what my -- what I intended when I wrote this versus what I learned after
Michael's death.
Q. Well, do you think you can just write whatever you want, whether it's true or untrue, sir?
A. No. But in a highly-charged situation like this, I just wanted to keep things calm until we had the
meeting.
Q. The "highly-charged" was that Mr. Jackson couldn't perform, and your shows couldn't go forward,
right?
A. The night before, that they sent him home from rehearsals.
Q. "Highly-charged" means that the shows might not go on, right?
A. It's -- I understand it suits your case to say that. I just wanted to calm things down until we had this
meeting.
Q. Sir --
A. This is all happening within a 12- to 16-hour period.
Q. Sir, you used the term "in a highly-charged situation" --
A. Correct.
Q. -- didn't you?
A. Correct.
Q. That's not my term, is it?
A. No, no. I accept that term. I have no problem with that.
Q. Okay. Now, at one -- okay. Right -- can you look at 315-1? I don't know where it is. I think I might
have it. You have it, sir?
Judge: Just so you know, we're going to take a break at 11:00.
Mr. Panish: Okay.
Phillips: No. Mr. Panish, wherever --
Mr. Panish: Did I give you two?
Ms. Stebbins: You gave us one. Just one.
Mr. Panish: Can I borrow it for the witness? I'm sorry. I only have one copy. Is it okay if I
borrow it?
Ms. Stebbins: That's the only copy you have for the witness?
Mr. Panish: I have this one I wrote on. You want me to give him that?
Ms. Stebbins: You can give --
Mr. Panish: No, I'll give him mine. That's okay. I wrote all over it, but maybe that will help you
key in on what I want to ask you about.
Phillips: Mr. Panish, I don't want any unfair advantage. Would you give me the other one?
Q. No. Go ahead. It's all right.
A. No, I won't. I won't look at it.
Q. No. It will make it go faster.
A. No. No. I don't want to help you with your case. Okay. Would you --
Q. Your lawyer gave up theirs.
A. Very kind of them.
Q. I'm just trying to help you. That's all. (shows document) Okay, sir. You with me?
A. Yes, I'm with you.
Q. Did you write that, the top email?
A. The top email? The one to Paul Gongaware, yes.
Q. Okay. So let's take a look at the last at 1:47 you wrote -- let's go down below so we have some
context. Mr. Gongaware writes to you at 1:47, which is actually a minute before you write to Mr.
Ortega, approximately, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. "Take the doctor with you. Why wasn't he there last night?" Actually, that's early in the morning
that he writes that, apparently.
A. Correct.
Q. Okay. And then Bugzee is on that, of course, also, is that right?
A. That's correct.
Q. And then you write: "He probably felt everything was fine since MJ left the house on time." Right?
A. Correct.
Q. Do you know where Dr. Murray was during this time, sir?
A. I have no idea, no.
Q. Did you write to Amy Pascal about where Dr. Murray had been during the week before Michael's
death?
A. To Amy Pascal about where Dr. Murray had been? Yes, there is an email to an Amy Pascal who is
the Chairwoman for Sony Pictures, yes.
Q. And you wrote to her and said Dr. Murray is crazy, right?
A. That is what I wrote.
Q. And you said that: "Remind me to tell you about where Conrad had been the nights and the week
before Michael's death when he was supposed to be caring for Michael." Correct?
A. When was that email written?
Q. Did you write that email, sir?
A. After Michael's death, yes. After tons of news reports.
Q. Did you write that email?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. And did you learn that Dr. Murray wasn't caring for Dr. Murray, and he wasn't there at the house
when Michael left?
A. You mean caring for Michael, not Dr. Murray. You meant Dr. Murray caring for Michael?
Judge: Reask the question.
Mr. Panish: Okay. That's fine. I will.
Q. You knew, sir -- you learned that Dr. Murray wasn't at the house caring for Michael, was he?
A. After his death, I learned that.
Q. And you learned that Dr. Murray was out each evening somewhere other than Michael's house, a
social establishment?
A. I learned what I learned from either Fox News or CNN, yes.
Q. Did you learn that he was not at Michael's house and out at some social establishment?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. Okay. Now, 318-1. Did I show that to you? Sorry. (shows document)
A. Thank you.
Q. You're welcome. Seen that before, sir?
A. Yes.
Q. Is that one of the emails your lawyers showed you to prepare you to testify?
A. Yes, it is.
Q. Okay.
Mr. Panish: Let's put that up.
Q. Okay. In response -- this is in response to Mr. Gongaware saying, "Take the doctor with you. Why
wasn't he there last night", correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And read us what you said.
A. I said: "He is not a psychiatrist so I am not sure how effective he can be at this point. Obviously
getting him there is not the issue. It is much deeper."
Q. Okay. You knew that Dr. Murray couldn't help with the psychiatrist, correct?
A. No. He could have helped bringing in a psychiatrist or recommending one, or finding one for
Michael. Certainly would have been more qualified than I would have been or Kenny.
Q. But no one brought one in, did they, sir?
A. Because he didn't need one. No, no one brought one in. No one brought one in based on the meeting
on the 20th.
Q. So are you now telling us that you have a medical opinion about whether Michael Jackson needed a
psychiatrist or not, sir?
A. No. I'm saying Michael Jackson had a medical opinion about that.
Q. So Michael Jackson, was he a doctor, sir?

A. Not to my knowledge.
Q. Did he go to law school, like you?
A. Not to my knowledge.
Q. Now, sir, and your communications directly after this -- "this" being 318-1 -- this is what you wrote
right after telling Mr. Ortega not to burn the house down, right?
A. Correct. I assume it was that day, that time period. So probably, yes.
Q. You assume. Every time you say that, I get worried. You better look at the other exhibit, and let's
make sure now.
A. Okay. What was the time? Can you help me with that?
Q. I believe it was 1:48.
A. And this was 2:01. So, yes, it would be around the same time period.
Q. It would actually be after, correct, sir?
A. Directly after, yes.
Q. Thank you, sir. And then
Mr. Panish: Your honor, is this okay?
Judge: If it's a good time.
Mr. Panish: That's okay.
Judge: Okay, sir.
Mr. Panish: Thank you.
Judge: Let's take a 15 minute break.
(break)
Judge: You can continue.
Mr. Panish: Thank you, your honor.
Q. 318-1 we left off on, sir. And this is where you wrote to Gongaware and Mr. Bugzee, right?
A. Right.
Q. And in this email, this is your response, the first email you wrote after you wrote to Mr. Ortega,
what we just went through, is that right?
A. That's correct.
Mr. Panish: Okay. I'd like to play the deposition, 195/25 to 197/20.
I showed them at the break.
(Panish plays video clip of Phillips deposition):
Q. And then your response to Mr. Gongaware copied to Mr. Leiweke and Bugzee was what?
A. 'He is not a psychiatrist so I am not sure how effective he can be
At this point. Obviously getting him there is not the issue. It is much deeper.'
Q. All right. Murray is not a psychiatrist?
A. Or whoever. The physician. I just don't remember who I was referring to. Most likely Murray.
Q. Right. And there was no other physician that you remember
bringing to this meeting, was there?
A. No.
Q. And when you wrote that 'Murray is not a psychiatrist,' you knew that to be the case, right?
A. Yes. I knew he wasn't a psychiatrist.
Q. And when you wrote, 'I'm not sure how effective he can be at this
point,' the reason you had doubt is because you thought the problem was psychological?
A. Based on Kenny's email. I was responding to Kenny's email
because I was not there.
Q. All right. And you said that the -- 'getting him there is not the
issue.' 'him' is Jackson or 'him' is Murray?
A. Murray or the doctor.
Q. Okay. Most likely Murray?
A. Right. Right.
Q. You never asked another doctor to come and see Mr. Jackson, did you?
A. No. As I repeated, no.
Q. Okay. 'it is much deeper.' what did you mean by that, sir?
A. Based on Kenny's email, that it may not be a physical problem. It
could be a psychological problem.
Q. What did you do to resolve that?
A. We had a meeting at the house.
Q. With Dr. Murray?
A. Correct.
Q. Who is not a psychologist?
A. Correct.
Q. Now, sir, when you wrote to Mr. Leiweke, Mr. Bugzee and Mr. Gongaware, did you tell them that
you had gained immense respect for Dr. Murray?
A. I believe I wrote that in an email to Kenny. I'm not sure if they were copied on it.
Q. Well, let's go back and look at the exhibit, which is exhibit no. 307.
A. Okay.
Q. Just quickly. Okay. This is the email I spent some time going through with you. I'm not going to go
through it again with you now.
But what I want to show is "extremely successful," "immense respect" that was sent at 1:48, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And you didn't send that to Mr. Gongaware or Mr. Bugzee or Mr. Leiweke, correct?
A. In this chain I have right above it, it was sent to Mr. Leiweke.
Q. At what time?
A. At 8:49 pm
Q. So that's seven hours, eight hours later?
A. Correct.
Q. So that wasn't my question. My question was: If we go back to
Exhibit 318-1, when you responded to these gentlemen, Leiweke, Houghdahl and Gongaware, you
didn't say all those things that you said to Mr. Ortega, did you?
A. No.
Q. You didn't say you'd gained immense respect for him, did you?
A. No.
Q. You didn't tell him he was ethical because he didn't need this gig?
A. No.
Q. You didn't tell him how Dr. Murray didn't need this gig and that you check everyone out, right?
A. No.
Q. And what you told your direct report, Mr. Leiweke, was that: "Murray's not a psychiatrist, so I'm not
sure how effective he could be at this point." Correct?
A. Correct. He was copied on it. I was responding to Paul.
Q. Okay.
A. Yeah.
Q. But you assumed that your boss is going to read an email that you're sending to him about the
biggest project that you have going on, isn't he?
A. One of the biggest projects. And, yes, not the biggest one, one of the biggest.
Q. What was the bigger project that you had going on at this time in time?
A. Celine Dion of Las Vegas.
Q. Celine Dion was in a residency show in Las Vegas?
A. Yes.
Q. And she wasn't the biggest star of all time, was she?
A. Celine Dion?
Q. Yeah.
A. I'd rather not answer that question, if she reads my testimony. No. But Michael Jackson, I considered
the biggest star.
Q. You considered this: Having the greatest artist of all time --
A. Uh-huh.
Q. -- at the greatest arena of all time in the greatest city in the world, right?
A. Correct. I said that.
Q. And that's not Celine Dion, no offense, right?
A. No. Celine Dion is a pretty big star, but, no.

Q. Come on. Celine Dion, Michael Jackson. You told us, right -- and Celine, I'm sure she's not reading
this. But you've already told us numerous times, right?
A. They're both major stars.
Q. Okay. Who did you call the greatest star of all time, sir?
A. In my opinion, it would be Michael Jackson, okay?
Q. All right. So you're working on this project. You have a lot of money -- you told us 30-plus million
invested in the project at this time, right?
A. Correct.
Q. Did you expect your boss to read this?
A. Yeah. I wasn't saying he wasn't. I just was clarifying that it was to Paul. I copied to him.
Q. You want to advise your boss of what's going on, right?
A. Of course.
Q. Because the topic is "trouble at the Front"?
A. Of course.
Q. All right. Now, this is just a few minutes after you told Mr. Ortega what immense respect you have
for Dr. Murray, right?
A. Correct.
Q. And here you're saying you don't know how effective Dr. Murray can be, right?
A. In response to Paul's email to me, yes.
Q. Well, sir, you just told Mr. Ortega how great you felt Dr. Murray was, right?
A. Based on my conversation with Dr. Murray, yes, I did.
Q. And then you don't tell that to these gentlemen, Leiweke, Bugzee or Gongaware, do you?
A. No, because if the issue was more than physical, then, you know, Dr. Murray is probably not
qualified to deal with that.

Q. He wasn't competent or fit to deal with that issue, was he?
Ms. Stebbins: Objection. Lacks foundation.
Judge: Overruled.
A. I can't say that.
Q. Well, you said, "I'm not sure how effective he can be." That's your language, right, sir?
A. And this was prior to the meeting that afternoon. I did not know what the problem was. I was
responding to that.
Q. In fact, you told us the purpose of the meeting was to find out what the problem was, right?
A. That is correct.
Q. Okay. So you tell Mr. Ortega one thing, and you tell your boss and your partner, Mr. Gongaware,
something different, right?
A. My executive, Mr. Gongaware, yes. But I wasn't telling them something different. I really did not
know what the issue was because I wasn't there. I had two -- I had conflicting information from Dr.
Murray and from Kenny.
Q. Well, I want to show you, sir, exhibit 917-1, which is just a comparison of the two emails. I'll give a
copy to counsel. This is your two emails on 6-20. (shows document) see those, sir?
A. Yes.
Q. And these are about 13 minutes apart, right?
A. Uh-huh. Correct.
Mr. Panish: Put that up.
Q. And you go in depth with Mr. Ortega, saying all this information about Dr. Murray being ethical,
unbiased, successful, doesn't need the gig, right?
A. And you understand the purpose of that?
Q. I'm just asking you, did you say that?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. And then 13 minutes later, you tell the management from your company that you're not sure how
effective this doctor can be at this point, right?
A. Because I didn't know what the problem was. Yes, yes.
Q. Did you say that to Mr. Gongaware and Bugzee, that: "I'm not sure what the problem is. I don't
know how effective this doctor can be"?
A. No, I did not.
Q. Would you agree with me that you're telling different information to the same people on the same --
strike that. Would you agree with me that your emails that are 13 minutes apart convey different
information to different people?
A. Because they were sent for different purposes.
Q. Would you agree with me, sir, that the email that you sent to Mr. Ortega provided different
information about Dr. Murray than the email you sent to the management?
A. In this context, yes.
Q. Okay. Did you tell Dr. -- strike that. Did you write to Mr. Ortega and say, "I'm not effective" -- I'm
sorry. Did you write to Mr. Ortega and tell Mr. Ortega, "Dr. Murray's not a psychiatrist. I'm not
sure how effective he can be at this point"?
A. No, because I did not know what the problem was. If it was physical, he would be very effective. Or
I thought he would be.
Q. Did you write to Mr. Ortega and tell him that you weren't sure how effective Dr. Murray could be?
A. No.
Q. Now -- so to determine what the problem was, you wanted to go have this meeting at Carolwood,
right?
A. That is correct.
Q. To determine the exact problem, correct?
A. That is correct.
Q. And as Mr. Gongaware suggested, you took Dr. Murray -- you had Dr. Murray be part of the
meeting, correct?
A. Paul was referring to a different meeting. He was referring to one that Tim had asked for where Dr.
Murray wasn't going to be involved.
Q. Sir, did Mr. Gongaware suggest to you to have or take Dr. Murray with you to a meeting in response
to the emails that Mr. Ortega was sending?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you have such a meeting?
A. Yes.
Q. Was Dr. Murray there?
A. Yes.
Q. Was Mr. Gongaware there?
A. No.
Q. Was Mr. Dileo there?
A. No.
Q. Was Mr. Leiweke there?
A. No.
Q. Was Kenny Ortega there?

A. Yes.
Q. Was Michael Jackson there?
A. Yes.
Q. Were there four people at the meeting?
A. That is correct.
Q. Was Mr. Jackson's housekeeper there?
A. At the meeting? No.
Q. Was she in the home?
A. She could have been. I don't remember.
Q. Now, at this meeting, how long did this meeting last, sir?
A. The best of my recollection, it was somewhere between an hour and 90 minutes, I believe.
Q. An hour to an hour and a half?
A. I think, yeah.
Q. That's your best -- you remember that? You're not speculating?
A. Well, there's a little speculation because it was four years ago. It was at least an hour. It wouldn't
have been less than an hour.
Q. At least an hour, is your best estimate?
A. Yes.
Q. And Mr. Ortega had reiterated to you that he thought there was an issue with Mr. Jackson's mental
state, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And in that meeting, that was held in the living room of Mr. Jackson's home that was being rented, is
that right?
A. That is correct.
Q. And you sat on a couch, correct?
A. I did.
Q. And who sat next to you on the couch?
A. Dr. Murray, myself, Kenny Ortega. Michael Jackson was on the settee.
Q. Okay. My question was -- you sat on a couch, right?
A. Uh-huh. Correct.
Q. Was there anyone else sitting on the couch with you?
A. Yes. Dr. Murray.
Q. So you and Dr. Murray were on one couch, right?
A. Correct.
Q. Mr. Jackson was on -- what do you call it?
A. Settee.
Q. On a settee. What does that mean in English?
A. Settee. It's a small-like bench with a back.
Q. And then there was another couch that Mr. Ortega was sitting on?
A. That is correct.
Q. And this was in what you would call a living room?
A. Yes.
Q. And that's all the people that were there, right?
A. That is correct.
Q. And that was for about an hour, right?
A. I believe --
Q. At least an hour?
A. I believe so.
Q. And Mr. Ortega pretty much reiterated what he wrote in the emails about Michael's physical
condition and his mental state, correct?
A. No.
Q. Okay. Did he discuss his mental state?
A. No.
Q. Okay. Let's play the deposition.
Mr. Panish: Page 163, lines 13 to 23.
(Panish plays a video clip of Phillips deposition):
Q. And what happened at that meeting?
A. At that meeting, there was -- Kenny Ortega was on one -- there were two couches in the living room
and a little settee. Dr. Murray and I were on one, Kenny Ortega was on the other, and Michael Jackson
was on the settee.
Q. And in the meeting, Kenny pretty much reiterated what he wrote in his email about Michael's
physical condition, his mental state. What did he say?
A. Mostly his mental state.
Q. Now, sir, did you change that testimony under oath?
A. Yeah, because -- did I change it under oath today?
Q. No. Let's talk about the first time you had the opportunity to change your testimony.
A. I don't --
Q. Can I finish the question, please?
A. I'm sorry.
Q. Let me start over. I just asked you whether Kenny Ortega
reiterated what he wrote in the emails about Michael's physical condition and his mental state. You
remember that question?
A. Correct.
Q. And you said "no", correct?
A. Uh-huh.
Q. "Yes"?
A. Correct.
Q. And I played your deposition, which we've all just seen, correct?
A. That is correct.
Q. And then I asked you, when you reviewed your deposition six weeks later and had the opportunity to
make any changes, did you change this testimony?
A. No.
Q. Okay. And then you said that, "Mostly, it was the mental state", is that right?
A. In the deposition, yes.
Q. Okay. And now you have different testimony. You want to change that?
A. On further recollection, since I gave this deposition, there have been a number of months. In this
meeting Kenny did very little talking, okay? He did address Michael coming to rehearsals and stuff like
that. I do not believe he got directly into discussions with Michael about his physical condition. Dr.
Murray did most of the talking.
Q. So when did you have this further recollection where you completely change your testimony?
A. I'm not completely changing it. It's just that I -- over the time, in preparing to testify, I've been able
to remember more about what happened four years ago.
Q. Sir, my question was -- well, you've told us you've been preparing the last two weeks, right?
A. Correct.
Q. So it's just within the last two weeks that your recollection came back to you about what really
happened at this meeting?
A. No. I'm getting more clear and remembering more about these events over the last couple months,
actually.
Q. Well -- but you didn't change your deposition when you had the chance, did you?
A. No. Because at the time that's what I remembered.
Q. Okay. But now you're remembering something different that occurred after two times saying under
oath it was this way, correct?
A. And I know you want to put it that way. I don't remember Kenny getting that in detail in the meeting
about Michael's physical condition or his mental state. Kenny did a lot of listening.
Q. But, sir, in your deposition, you didn't say, "I don't remember."
A. I know.
Q. You said specifically what occurred that Kenny Ortega brought up exactly and reiterated what was
in the emails, didn't you, sir?
A. Because that's what I remembered at the time I said it.
Q. And now you remember something completely different, right?
A. It's -- my memory is getting better about the events four years ago, yes.
Q. No. The question was: now your testimony has flipped, and you remember that Kenny hardly did
any talking, and he didn't reiterate what he said in his emails about the physical and mental state of
Michael Jackson; correct?

A. Not as they were written in those emails, no.
Q. So that's correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. So you flip-flopped your testimony?
A. If that's the way you want to put it, fine. Fine.
Q. Now, sir, the purpose of the meeting was to find out exactly what was wrong with Michael Jackson,
correct?
A. Correct. Or what happened on the 19th and why.
Q. Sir, you testified at 10:26 this morning, you testified when we came back this morning when I asked
you again after the break, that the purpose of the meeting was to find out exactly -- that's your term --
what was wrong with Michael Jackson, correct?
A. And I'm saying the same thing, because of what happened on the 19th.
Q. Sir --
A. Yes. The answer is "yes," Mr. Panish.
Q. And, sir, in that meeting, did Dr. Murray give you an explanation of what was wrong with Michael
-- or strike that. Did either you or Mr. Gongaware ask Dr. Murray what Michael Jackson's physical
problem had been the night before?
Ms. Stebbins: Objection. Vague. Mr. Gongaware wasn't at this meeting.
Judge: Sustained.
Q. Did either you or Mr. Ortega ask Dr. Murray what Michael Jackson's physical problem had been the
night before?
A. I don't remember if I asked him at the meeting or in the phone call, where I asked him. But, yes. And
I believe he said something that he didn't know, he might have had the flu, or flu symptoms, or
Something like that.
Q. Okay. Well, let's see what you testified under oath, sir, in your deposition when you were asked that
exact question.
A. Okay.
Mr. Panish: page 165, line 22, to page 166, line 6.
Q. And did either you or Mr. Gongaware ask Dr. Murray what Michael Jackson's physical problem had
been the night before? I'm sorry. Mr. Ortega.
A. I don't remember. I don't remember what he asked about that. I'm not -- I don't remember the exact
question.
Q. Now, sir, Mr. Ortega, he was concerned that Mr. Jackson wasn't focused, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And he was concerned that Michael Jackson wasn't taking this seriously enough, correct?
A. That is correct.
Q. And he was concerned about whether or not Mr. Jackson was getting enough food, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And Mr. Ortega said that he was concerned that Michael wasn't getting enough sleep, didn't he, sir?
A. Would you show me that email, please?

Q. Sir, I'm asking you, as you sit here today, did Mr. Ortega state that at that meeting, that he was
concerned that Michael Jackson wasn't getting enough sleep?
A. At the meeting at the house on the 20th?
Q. Can you answer the question, sir?
A. I don't remember if he asked that question.
Q. Well, let's -- you also, sir, at this meeting -- strike that. Let's look at what you testified to under oath.
Mr. Panish: 163/24 to 164, line 4.
Q. What did he say?
A. That -- basically what he said in the email, that he was
concerned that Michael wasn't focused, wasn't taking this seriously
enough, and that he was concerned whether he was getting enough food,
enough sleep, things like that.
Q. Now, sir, did you tell the truth when you gave that testimony under oath?
A. Yes. That's what I told at the time. That's what I remembered at the time.
Q. Sir, my question is --
A. Yes.
Q. -- did you tell the truth when you testified as to what Mr. Ortega discussed at the meeting?
A. To the best of my recollection, yes.

Q. And then when you had the chance to change it, did you change this testimony?
A. No.
Q. Mr. Ortega was concerned and raised it with Dr. Murray that Mr. Jackson wasn't getting enough
sleep, isn't that true, sir?
A. I'm not -- I'm just not sure that he asked about sleep or -- I know he asked about food. I'm not sure
he asked about sleep. It's very -- it's possible. It is possible.
Q. But you told us this was the truth --
A. No, I understand.
Q. Sir, you need to let me finish. You told us when you testified under oath that Mr. Ortega was
concerned and raised it with you and
Dr. Murray, that Michael wasn't getting enough sleep, that that was truthful testimony, didn't you, sir?
A. Yes.
Q. And when you signed it under penalty of perjury again, you reaffirmed that it was the truth, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you have no basis to say that isn't the truth of what was discussed, that he was concerned about
Michael getting enough sleep, do you?
A. Because I just don't remember the exact conversation, yes. The answer is, "yes."
Q. All right. So you as the CEO of AEG knew, based on this conversation, that there was a concern
about Michael Jackson's lack of sleep, correct?
A. I don't remember that being a material part of the meeting, no.
Q. You testified under oath to it, didn't you, sir?
A. Yeah, but I don't remember it being a material part of that conversation.
Q. I didn't ask you if it was material, immaterial, primary or secondary. I asked you, as the CEO of
AEG Live, you testified that it was discussed with Dr. Murray that Michael wasn't getting enough
sleep, correct?
A. It's possible, yes.
Q. Did you say it was possible when you testified under oath, sir?
A. No.
Q. Did you say that that was true, sir, just now?
A. It was one of many things, yes.
Q. So you'll admit that now?
A. Mr. Panish, I have never not admitted. I just don't remember 100 percent what was discussed. But,
yes.
Q. You admit it?
A. I admit that it could have been, yes.
Q. Okay. Did you say it could have been in your testimony, sir?
A. No. And I might have been wrong when I answered that so precisely like that.
Q. Now, sir, you didn't have any idea of what Dr. Murray's qualifications were for addressing any of the
concerns raised by Mr. Ortega, including Mr. Jackson's lack of sleep, correct?
A. Other than being Michael's physician, no.
Q. Okay. Let's see what you said in your deposition. Never mind. Dr. Murray said at that meeting that
the night before when he wasn't present, there wasn't even a problem with Michael Jackson, correct?
A. Words to that extent, yes.
Q. He denied all these things that Mr. Ortega said and said that's not true, even though he wasn't even
there, correct?
A. He said to me that he thought he might have had some kind of flu.
Q. Sir, Dr. Murray contradicted what Mr. Ortega said in his email about Mr. Jackson's physical
condition, didn't he?

A. Yes.
Q. And you had information from not only Mr. Ortega, but Mr. Houghdahl, that there was a serious
problem the night of the 19th, correct?
A. Which is what necessitated the meeting, yes.
Q. Was that a "yes"?
A. That's a "yes."
Q. And then you wrote to Mr. Leiweke, your boss and the CEO of the company, that "We," AEG Live,
"have a real problem here," didn't you, sir?
A. Correct. And I didn't know what the problem was. But, yes.
Q. Right. Because the purpose of the meeting was to find out what the real problem was --
A. Correct.
Q. -- right?
A. Correct.
Q. And you told Mr. Leiweke, "we got a real problem," based on what they're telling you, these people
that are there at the front, right?
A. Correct.
Q. And Mr. Ortega told you that he felt Mr. Jackson needed an evaluation, correct?
A. That is correct.
Q. And Mr. Houghdahl told you he needed a psychiatrist, correct?
A. That's what my production manager said, yes.
Q. And Mr. Branca said he had one.
A. He didn't say a psychiatrist, but, yes.
Q. Substance abuse counselor?
A. Therapist, spiritual advisor, yes.

Q. And you told -- excuse me. At the meeting, Dr. Murray told, according to you, Mr. Ortega not to be
an amateur psychiatrist?
A. And physician, yes.
Q. That's the same word you used in that other email. "Don't be an amateur physician or psychiatrist",
right?
A. Because that's what I think Dr. Murray might have told me in that conversation that I had with him
that morning, and I was just reiterating.
Q. So you admit now that Dr. Murray used that term, "amateur physician"? Don't be an amateur
physician?
A. I'm saying he could have, yes.
Q. You don't have any other basis of where it came from, do you, sir?
A. Unless I made it up.
Q. You made it up? Well, you don't make things up, right?
A. It's a cheap shot. I don't -- I don't know if Dr. Murray said it
To me, or I used it, and I came up with that line. But I believe Dr. Murray may have said it to me.
Q. Well, sir, you never accomplished what the purpose of the meeting was, did you?
A. I believe we did.
Q. Okay. And the purpose of the meeting was to determine exactly what was wrong with Mr. Jackson?
A. Correct.
Q. And Mr. Or Dr. Murray in fact told you he didn't know what was wrong with Michael Jackson,
correct?
A. No. He said there wasn't anything wrong with Michael Jackson, and Michael Jackson said there
wasn't anything wrong with Michael Jackson.
Q. Well let's play what you said in your deposition, sir.

Mr. Panish: page 164, line 13, to 165, line 12.
Q. Did Dr. Murray offer an explanation as to why Mr. Jackson's condition was so poor the night
before?
A. He did. I don't remember what it was, but he did. And in doing so, he pretty much assured us that
Michael was fine, you know. He wasn't sure why, you know, he wasn't well that night, but that he was
fine
physically and that he admonished Kenny for analy -- for being an
amateur physician, or something to that effect.
Q. Okay. So -- all right. And how did Mr. Ortega respond to that?
A. Kenny and he kind of were a little bit combative in the meeting. I mean, Kenny said, 'well, why isn't
he at rehearsals more? Why isn't he, you know, focusing on getting his performance done, giving me
what I need from him in terms of putting the rest of the show together because the rest of the show keys
off of him, so it's very hard for us to finish the production without Michael's attendance.' and that was
kind of the conversation that went back and forth. And Dr. Murray was very assured that Michael's
health was fine.
Q. And Dr. Murray was a professional you thought was going to evaluate Michael Jackson's mental
state?
A. I didn't know if there was a mental problem. That was my production manager and our show
director's observations, and they're not doctors, either. At least Dr. Murray was a doctor.
Q. You knew that, that Dr. Murray was a doctor, at that time?
A. I was told he was a doctor by Mr. Jackson.
Q. Did Alif Sankey -- strike that. Did Mr. Ortega tell you that he had been notified by others, including
Alif Sankey, that there was a problem with Mr. Jackson?
A. Who is Alif Sankey?
Q. Well, so you never heard of that person?
A. No.
Q. Okay. So if you never heard of them, I assume, then, that you could have never been told about
anything she said, right?
A. That's probably true.
Q. How about Michael Bush? Do you know who he is?
A. I know who he is.
Q. Did Mr. Ortega tell you about any conversations he might have had with him?
A. He wrote in an email about Michael Bush.
Q. Did you see that
email?
A. I believe. I believe it was sent to me. It was referring to an HBO special.
Q. What -- so you -- who sent you the email?
A. It would have been Kenny, I believe.
Q. So you believe that Kenny Ortega sent you an email setting forth what Mr. Bush had observed about
Mr. Jackson's health?
A. I think it was part of this chain of emails, yes.

Q. Now, did Dr. Murray say Mr. Ortega should use more calm and competence with regard to MJ's
participation?
A. Please repeat the question.
Q. Sure.
Mr. Panish: Could I ask that it be read back, please?
Judge: You may.
A. "Calm and competence"? I'm not sure if he used those words. He just assured Mr. Ortega that Mr.
Jackson was fine and that he would be going to his rehearsals and focus on the show.
Q. Did anyone tell, to your knowledge, Mr. Ortega that he was creating fear and lack of confidence in
the company?
A. Not that I can recall.
Q. Was Dr. Murray aggravated that he had set up a rehearsal schedule for Mr. Jackson and that Mr.
Ortega refused to allow him to rehearse the night before?
A. I'm not sure.
Q. You don't know one way or the other?
A. No.
Q. Did Mr. Ortega say that "it's not at all what happened, not at all what went down with Dr. Murray"?
Ms. Stebbins: Objection. Vague. Calls for hearsay.
Judge: It's a little vague.

Mr. Panish: Let me rephrase the question.
Q. At the meeting when Mr. Ortega was talking, did he ever say that what Dr. Murray said occurred did
not occur?
Ms. Stebbins: Objection. Vague.
Judge: Overruled.
A. I don't remember that interchange, that exchange.
Q. Did Dr. Murray agree that he would be the one that would take care of Mr. Jackson's going to
rehearsals?
A. I believe at the meeting he assured us that Michael Jackson would be attending rehearsals from that
point on.
Q. And he assured you that he would be in charge of that, didn't he?
A. He may have.
Q. And have you seen that correspondence where you and Mr. -- you and Dr. Murray were charged
with the responsibility of getting Michael Jackson to rehearsals?
A. Yes. Timm Woolley sent that email to an insurance broker, I believe.
Q. So the answer would be, "yes"?
A. It would be, "yes."
Q. And Timm Woolley, just refresh our recollection, is the former CEO For AEG Live, right?
A. Years ago before I got there, yes.
Q. And he was the financial person for the tour, correct?
A. Yeah. He was like the preproduction accountant, yes.

Q. And he was allowed to speak on behalf of AEG Live, correct?
A. It's a very broad question. He was not an executive of AEG Live. He was an independent contractor.
Q. But he was allowed to work on getting insurance for the tour, wasn't he, sir?
A. For sure. He would be providing information to brokers and stuff.
Q. And he was allowed to speak on behalf of AEG Live as it went to getting insurance for the tour,
wasn't he, sir?
A. It's too broad a question. I can't answer that question, what the limitations of what he was able to do
or not do.
Q. Mr. Gongaware told us that he charged Mr. Woolley with the responsibility to work on getting the
insurance. Would you agree with that?
A. Along with Mr. Trell, yes.
Q. Okay. And was Mr. Woolley allowed to speak with the insurance brokers?
A. Oh, I'm sure he was.
Q. Did you forbid him from doing that?
A. I hardly spoke to him. No.
Q. Okay. Well, you knew he was communicating with the insurance people, didn't you, sir?
A. Just based on that email, which I don't think I was copied on. I may have been, but I don't remember.
Q. But you reviewed that in preparation for your testimony, didn't you, sir?
A. Correct. That is true, Mr. Panish. Yes, I did.
Mr. Panish: Well, let me show it to you.
Judge: Well, before we do that, it's 12:00, so you can show it to him after lunch.
Mr. Panish: Okay. I will do that.
Judge: Okay. 1:30.

(lunch break)
Continued direct examination by Brian Panish:
Q. Mr. Phillips, at the break, we were talking about exhibit 336, dash, 1. You have that in front of you,
right?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. Okay. You can put that up. And I'm going to ask you a few questions. This is between Mr. Taylor
and Mr. Woolley, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. Do you know who Mr. Taylor is?
A. I believe he's an insurance broker whose specialty is concert tours.
Q. Okay. And we talked a little bit about Mr. Taylor's role before. Now, in this email, Mr. Taylor -- strike
that. Do you know the difference between sickness insurance and cancellation insurance?
A. No.
Q. That's really not something that you got involved in?
A. No, that wouldn't be my -- that wouldn't be something I do.
Q. I'm sorry. I just can't hear you.
A. No. The answer is no.
Q. So that's not something that you got involved in?
A. Correct.
Q. Okay. And you don't even know the difference between cancellation and sickness insurance?
A. No, I don't know.
Q. Okay. And Mr. Woolley says that Kenny has responsibility only for show content and structure in
consultation with MJ, Randy Phillips and Dr. Murray are responsible for MJ rehearsal and attendance
schedule. That's what he wrote, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. Okay. And is it your position that you were not responsible for MJ rehearsal and attendance
schedule?
A. No, that would not be part of my job.
Q. So it's your position you were not responsible for that?
A. Correct.
Q. And then Mr. Woolley would be mistaken in -- in telling that to the insurance broker?
A. That is correct.
Q. Okay. And we discussed Dr. Murray before the break. Mr. Woolley goes on to write "looks like
there might have been an issue of KO --" that's Mr. Ortega, right?
A. Correct.
Q. "-- either not being demanding enough of MJ's attendance or causing concern with the
schedule he was imposing." Did I read that right?
A. That's what it says.
Q. Did you discuss that with Dr. Murray, KO either not being demanding enough or -- of MJ's
attendance or concern with the schedule he was imposing?
A. No.
Q. Then it says "either way, there are others designated to ensure MJ is front and center for
rehearsals. Timm," right?
A. Correct.
Q. And when you were at the meeting, did you and Mr. Ortega leave at the same time when it was
over?
A. I think Kenny might have left like a minute or two before me.
Q. You said the meeting was at least an hour, correct?
Q. And if Mr. Ortega were to say that he was only at the meeting for 15 minutes, would that be
consistent with your recollection of the meeting?
A. No.
Q. You testified in the criminal case that you and Mr. Ortega left the meeting at the same time, correct?
A. Yes, virtually.
Q. Well, you didn't say "virtually," you said at the same time. Do you remember that testimony?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And do you have an understanding that Mr. Ortega's recollection is different from yours as to
when each of you left the meeting?
A. No.
Q. You don't know that?
A. No.
Q. And you didn't testify to that Thursday in response to one of my questions, that, "Oh Mr. Ortega
testified differently"? You never said that on Thursday?
A. I don't know what Kenny's testimony was.
Q. Okay. And you -- did you and Dr. Murray agree that you and he would be responsible for Mr.
Jackson's rehearsal and attendance schedule?
A. No. What I did is I told Kenny that I would office out of Staples Center for the remainder of the
rehearsals.
Q. Well, my question was, did you and Dr. Murray agree that you and Dr. Murray would be responsible
for the attendance and scheduling of rehearsals? And I take it your answer is no, that's not correct?
A. It's not.
Q. I'm sorry. Just --

A. You can't hear. Okay.
Q. I'm sorry.
A. It's not. It's not.
Q. Thank you. Now, at this meeting that took place on the 20th, what time did the meeting start?
A. I'm not sure if it was at 3:00 or 4:00. It was sometime in the mid to late afternoon.
Q. Would it be fair to say between 3:00 and 4:00 would be your best recollection?
Q. And then if it lasted at least an hour, as you said, then it would have been over somewhere
between 4:00 and 5:00?
A. Correct.
Q. And did you go to the Forum after the meeting?
A. No.
Q. Where did you go?
A. I went home.
Q. Now, at the meeting, was Michael Jackson scared, shaking and trembling?
A. At the meeting in his house at the 20th?
Q. Yes, sir.
A. No, not at all.
Q. Was a vase broken?
A. Not at that meeting, no.
Q. What meeting was the vase broken at?
A. I don't remember. It was one of the production meetings, probably in -- sometime in either May or
early June.
Q. Okay. This is a meeting at Mr. Jackson's home?
A. Yes, in the living room -- in the living room.
Q. I'm sorry. I'm just having a hard time hearing you.

A. Okay.
Q. I apologize.
A. In the living room.
Q. Okay. And at that meeting, who was present when the vase was broken?
A. Frank Dileo, Paul Gongaware, myself I'm not sure who else was in that meeting.
Q. Who broke the vase, if you know?
A. I -- I honestly don't know. I think it might have been Frank.
Q. Now, did Dr. Murray, on the 20th when you had the meeting, walk out and say something to the
effect of, "I can't take this anymore," or anything like that?
A. No.
Q. You never saw that occur --
A. No.
Q. -- is that correct?
A. That is correct.
Q. All right. Now, in this meeting on the 20th that lasted at least an hour, did you discuss Dr. Murray's
written contract?
A. No.
Q. Did you tell Dr. Murray that if he didn't have a written contract, he couldn't get paid by AEG?
A. No.
Q. Did you tell Mr. Jackson that Dr. Murray had to -- that he, Mr. Jackson, had to sign the written
contract?
A. I never said that to Michael, no.
Q. Did anyone bring up a written contract at this meeting on the 20th at Mr. Jackson's home that
lasted at least an hour?
A. It would have been inappropriate. No.
Q. So the answer is no?

A. The answer is no.
Q. Do you know if there was ever any discussion with Dr. Murray by anyone at AEG Live that there
had to be a signed contract in place?
A. I have no knowledge of that, no.
Q. The meeting of the 20th, did you have a conversation with Michael Jackson in which you
threatened to pull the plug and take away everything he had?
A. Absolutely not.
Q. You remember that?
A. Clearly.
Q. Okay. And did you ever tell Michael Jackson that he would be ruined if he didn't show up for
rehearsals?
A. I would never speak to him like that, no.
Q. Did you ever tell him that he would lose everything, including his children?
A. That's ridiculous. No.
Q. Did you know that Michael Jackson was a phenomenal father?
A. I felt that, yes.
Q. And from everything you observed, did you ever see anything that led you to believe that he didn't
have the greatest relationship with his children?
A. Not at all. He was a phenomenal father.
Q. Did you ever pull Conrad Murray aside at the meeting on the 20th and talk to him?
A. Not that I remember.
Q. Not that you -- does that mean you didn't do it, or it could have happened and you don't recall?
A. I don't recall.
Q. One way or the other?
A. Correct.
Q. Did you ever say that there would be dire financial consequences for MJ If he didn't do the shows
at that meeting?
A. To who?
Q. To anyone.
A. No.
Q. Did you ever tell anyone that -- at that meeting that Michael Jackson was on Skid Row?
A. On Skid Row?
Q. Yes.
A. No. No.
Q. Or that he was going to go be homeless?
Ms. Stebbins: I'm going to object to lacking foundation to this line of questioning.
Judge: Okay. Is there -- all right. Let's go to sidebar.
(sidebar)
(back to open court)
Judge: You may continue.
Q. Did you ever tell Dr. Murray that you're paying for the toilet paper that's being used at the home?
A. No.
Q. Did you ever tell Dr. Murray this was the last chance for Mr. Jackson?
A. No.
Q. Sir, you've reviewed some YouTube videos of testimony of Dr. Murray, is that right?
A. No. I reviewed the YouTube video that I did of "The Little Boy That Santa Forgot."
Q. The what?
A. "The Little Boy --" I think the name of the song is "The Little Boy That Santa Forgot."
Mr. Panish: I can't -- is it me?
Judge: "The Little Boy That Santa Forgot."
Q. And when did you review that, sir?
A. Whenever he did it. It was a couple of months ago.
Q. But prior to that, you've reviewed YouTube videos of Dr. Murray, hadn't you, sir?
A. I'm not sure what YouTube video you're referring to.
Q. I'm talking about the one you referred to in your email to Ms. Pascal of Sony. Did you send an email
to Ms. Pascal talking about --
A. -- Pascal, yes.
Q. Excuse me. I need to finish. -- referring to a video that you had reviewed and asked her if she'd
seen it?
A. No. You're --
Q. Okay.
A. That's not what the email says, the email trail says.
Q. Okay.
A. So you want to show us the email? That's not what it says. She asked me about a YouTube -- "what
is this YouTube video?" and I -- and I had no idea what she was talking about, but I responded about
something else that I heard on the news about the --
Q. Now, sir, I showed you earlier exhibit -- what was that number? Time out. 319-1. I think you have it
up there.
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. Can you put that up? Okay. And this is one of the emails that you reviewed to refresh your
recollection about jittery and such. Remember we talked about that earlier?
A. That is correct.
Mr. Panish: Okay. Now, your honor, I would like to play a brief clip from Mr. Beckerman's
testimony
about this email. And I have a copy for counsel. He's the CEO of AEG. Page 165, line 16. Okay.
We'll play Mr. Leiweke first, 181-19 to 185-22.
Judge: Okay. Leiweke?
Mr. Panish: Right, about this email.
Ms. Stebbins: What are the pages?
Mr. Panish: I just gave it to you.
Ms. Stebbins: All of them?
Mr. Panish: Just about the email.
Ms. Stebbins: What's been cut? Is it just objections that have been cut?
Mr. Panish: Objections -- if you want me to put your objections back in, I can.
Ms. Stebbins: No. As long as it's just the objections omitted.
Q. Mr. Leiweke, at this time, being This Is It, up until a couple of months ago, was the CEO of AEG,
correct?
A. That is correct.
Q. Who you reported to?
A. That is correct.
Mr. Panish: All right, counsel? Is that okay?
Mr. Putnam: Yes, it is.
Mr. Panish: All right. Okay. Go ahead. This is Mr. Leiweke's testimony.
(video clip of Leiweke's deposition is played)
Q. Now, sir, were you having a mental breakdown?
A. Was I having a mental breakdown? No.
Q. And we'll play Mr. Beckerman's testimony, 165-16 up to 169-9. You know both these gentlemen,
right?
A. Very well, yes.
Q. Good friends of yours, right?
A. Extremely.
Q. You would expect them to be honest talking about you, right?
A. Well, I would hope so, yes.
(video clip of Beckerman's deposition is played)
Q. Do you believe Mr. Jackson needed a straightjacket?
A. I think he might have been referring to me.
Q. Well, I'll ask about you next, but --
A. Sure.
Q. Mr. Jackson.
A. No, I don't believe Michael Jackson needed a straightjacket.
Q. You weren't jittery, right?
A. I wasn't jittery.
Q. You weren't nervous?
A. No, I was nervous. I wasn't jittery, but I was nervous.
Q. And they never gave you a straightjacket, did they?

A. Not that I remember, no, no.
Q. Not that you remember, or no?
A. No.
Q. It would probably be something you'd remember, don't you think?
A. Probably.
Q. Now, sir, in the meeting at carolwood on the 20th that lasted at least an hour, you were all sitting on
the couches, you next to Dr. Murray, Mr. Ortega on one, and Mr. Jackson on another piece of furniture.
I forgot what you called it.
A. Settee.
Q. Thank you.
A. You're welcome.
Q. And it -- did anyone raise their voice at that meeting?
A. No.
Q. Did it ever become hostile?
A. It got a little bit heated with between Dr. Murray and -- admonishing Kenny during the meeting.
Q. Would you consider that to be hostile?
A. "Hostile" would be too strong a word. "Demonstrative" would be a better word.
Q. "Demonstrative." Dr. Murray was demonstrative towards Mr. Ortega, is that right?
A. Correct.
Q. And telling him basically, you know, "don't invade my territory"?
A. Or another way of putting it would be, "stay in your lane."
Q. Or, "mind your own business"?
A. He didn't say it like that. More, "stay in your own lane."
Q. Well, he mentioned, "don't be an amateur physician," right?
A. Yes, he did.
Q. Same thing that you and him, at least according to your email, had discussed earlier that day?
A. Correct, that is correct.
Q. And did Dr. Murray discuss -- strike that. Did Dr. Murray tell you, "Mr. Jackson is fine, absolutely
nothing wrong with him"?
A. He actually did say that, yes.
Q. And then five days later, he was dead?
A. That is -- that is the time period in which he died, yes.
Q. And you -- when you discussed when the -- Mr. Ortega brought up the sleep issues, did you ask
Dr. Murray, "what are you going to do about the sleep issues?"
A. I don't remember him bringing up the sleep issues. There were a lot of things discussed, it wasn't --
if that was discussed, it wasn't a prominent part of that meeting.
Q. Well, you mentioned the weight loss, right?
A. Correct, because I always -- I was concerned about that.
Q. You mentioned the nourishment, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And you mentioned not going to rehearsals, correct?
A. That -- that was discussed, that was the cause of the meeting.
Q. And -- well, earlier you told us the cause of the meeting was Michael Jackson's health. Do you
remember that, sir?
A. But I think we then went further and discussed that further, but --
Q. Well, you just told me this morning that the reason for the meeting was to find out exactly what
Was wrong with Mr. Jackson. Didn't you say that, sir, this morning, three times?
A. I don't remember. You'd have to read that back to me. What I meant was what happened the night
before, what was the issue the night before, and why wasn't he coming to rehearsals. If it was his
health, that was one thing, if it was his mental health, that was another thing. I did not know what the
issue was. That's why the meeting was called.
Q. Sir, you told us -- do you deny telling us three times this morning that the reason for the meeting
was to find out exactly what was the problems with Mr. Jackson?
A. I don't think I'm saying anything differently now.
Q. I'll ask you the question again, sir.
A. And I'll --
Q. And you'll what?
A. I'll answer it the same way.
Q. Did you or did you not tell us under oath this morning that the reason for the meeting was to find
out exactly what was wrong with Mr. Jackson?
A. Correct. Not his health.
Q. Did you testify in your deposition that the reason for the meeting was Mr. Jackson's health?
A. It's possible that that could have been one of the reasons. I'd have to see the deposition testimony.
Q. Did you contact Mr. Gongaware after the meeting?
A. I'm -- in the absence of an email, and certainly you would have showed that to me if there was one,
I probably did call him.
Q. Sir
Judge: I'm sorry. Could you repeat the answer?
Mr. Panish: Please answer the question.
Phillips: Yes. In the absence of an email, I probably did call him.
Judge: Okay.
Mr. Panish: well, let's see what you testified to in your deposition. Page 215, line 3, to 215, line
17.
(Panish plays video clip from Phillips' deposition):
Q. Mr. Phillips, is this the only record of what happened at the meeting on June 20th with Dr.
Murray that you're familiar with?
A. I don't know.
Q. You don't have any recollection of anything other than this?
A. I don't know.
Q. I'm just asking you if you have a Recollection. Sitting here right now, do you remember --
A. And I'm telling you I don't have a Recollection. I don't know.
Mr. Panish: Let me show you exhibit 306, dash, 1. I think it's already in evidence. It's one
sentence.
Phillips: Okay.
Q. Does that refresh your recollection whether you had any communication with Mr. Gongaware that
day?
A. Yes, it does.
Q. And did you have any communication with Mr. Gongaware?
A. Obviously, yes.
Q. And, sir, below that, it says "from Paul Gongaware to Randy Phillips, subject, Dr. Murray info."
Do you know what was in that email, sir?
A. No.
Q. Do you know where that is?
A. I have no idea.
Q. Did you report to Mr. Leiweke what happened at the June 20th meeting?
A. I don't remember if I sent him an email or not, but I may have spoken to him that night. I'm sure the
responsible thing for me to do would have been for me to tell him the results of the meeting.
Q. So you're telling us now that you had communication with Mr. Leiweke as a result of the meeting, is
that right?
A. I'm saying I think I did.
Q. Did you or didn't you?
A. I don't remember if I did or I didn't, but it would seem logical that I would call my boss to report what
happened at the meeting.
Mr. Panish: okay. Well, let's see what you said in your deposition. 216-18 to 217-1.
Q. Did you have any communications with Mr. Leiweke regarding what happened at the June
20th meeting?
Q. Did you send him any emails?
Q. Did you change that testimony, sir, after you gave it under oath when you had the opportunity to
make any changes?
A. Isn't that what I -- isn't that virtually what I just said?
Mr. Panish: Sir, could you answer -- your honor, can he please answer the question? That's not
what you just said.
Judge: You need to answer the question. Just listen to the question, answer what's being
asked.
Phillips: I will, your honor. Please repeat the question.
Mr. Panish: No. That's okay.
Q. My question is, did you change your testimony that we just read when you had a chance to sign it
under penalty of perjury and make your changes?
A. No, I didn't remember. I still don't remember.
Q. Now, sir, do you remember I showed you I think I showed 304, dash, 1. Is that up there? I'll bring
another copy.
A. It's not here.
Q. Okay. Is that one of the emails you looked at with your attorneys preparing to testify here, sir?
A. Correct, yes, it is.
Q. Yes, it is one of the ones that you reviewed. Was that today you reviewed it?
A. No.
Q. When did you review it? Over the --
A. A. Couple -- a couple weeks ago.
Q. A couple weeks ago. Okay. Now, John Branca, that was the man who wrote you about the
substance abuse counselor of Mike Tyson. Do you remember that?
A. Yes, john Branca, who was Michael's attorney.
Q. And he had just shortly been rehired around this time, hadn't he?
A. That is correct.
Q. So that's the man that wrote to you about "is there a substance abuse problem? I have this person
that helped Mike Tyson," right?
A. On June 20th, yes.

Q. Okay. Now, this is on June 20th at 9:00 o'clock in the evening, right?
A. That's the time stamp, yes.
Q. Okay. And if we go to the very bottom actually, if we go to page 2 -- we went through this the
other day, so I'm not going to go back through. This is the financial -- that's page 1. But on the other --
we don't have to show it. Just that's coming to Jesus, my Wednesdays -- or my Mondays weren't
great, Kenny could quit. Do you remember that?
A. The Michael Kane exchange.
Q. Right. We went through that, about he couldn't advance him any more money, those emails, right?
A. Correct, yes.
Q. Okay. Then if we go carry on, then you write at 1743 -- Mr. Kane wrote you on the 20th "is there
any update?" right?
A. Correct.
Q. And you wrote back, and you gave him your response, correct?
A. That was in response to his -- that we need to have a Come-to-Jesus financial meeting, the email
just on --
Q. And then you said that Kenny that's Mr. Ortega, right?
A. Correct.
Q. -- you had a very productive meeting, right?
A. Correct.
Q. The doctor was fantastic, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. Was he fantastic when he told Kenny to stay in his own lane?
A. He was fantastic when he -- when he and Michael talked to us to allay our concerns.
Q. To tell you everything is fine, don't worry, right?
A. That's what both Kenny and Mr. Jackson said.
Q. That wasn't correct, though, was it?

A. We had the two best rehearsals in the whole time right after that meeting, so --
Q. Well, we'll get to that, sir. First of all, you weren't at the other rehearsals, were you?
A. Some of them.
Q. Not very many?
A. No. I had my day job.
Q. Sir, you weren't at very many rehearsals, were you?
A. No, I wasn't, but I was at a few.
Q. And then you said "we have all agreed on a schedule that works for both KO and MJ," right?
A. Correct.
Q. What was that schedule you agreed on?
A. Kenny told Michael to take the next two days off, spend the time with the kids, and they would
resume on Tuesday. That's what I was referring to.
Q. That's the schedule that you were referring to?
A. Correct.
Q. Then it said "Kenny's hysteria will be in check, while MJ was alert and attentive." so you described
Kenny's emails where he was concerned about Mr. Jackson as hysteria, right?
A. Well, the second email that Kenny sent of those two eponymous emails about what happened the
night -- the second email gave me some concern that Kenny was getting entrenched in an emotional
position himself and not letting this meeting happen so we could get the facts.
Q. Right. That's the email that you responded to with those things that weren't true and told him "don't
-- let's put out the fire, don't burn down the building," right?
A. That's the email I responded to to calm things down where I made some assertions that proved not
to be right, but it's what I thought at the time.
Q. Sir, you've already admitted that you made numerous statements in that email that weren't true,
didn't you?
Ms. Stebbins: Objection, misstates testimony.

Judge: Overruled.
Phillips: Honestly, only to stop you from badgering me, yes.
Judge: Let's have a break. I'm going to send the jury out. Okay?
(the following proceedings were held in open court, outside the presence of the jurors):
Judge: Have a seat. Mr. Phillips, you need to answer the questions that are being asked
without comments. Because what happens is, first of all, this is taking a Very long time to get
through the testimony. I think that the lawyers are trying to get the answers out, but they don't
seem to be rolling off the way, probably, they should be.
Phillips: I understand.
Judge: And arguing with the lawyers really isn't going to help.
Phillips: Okay.
Judge: It really --
Phillips: I hear you.
Judge: It's not going to help your case, it's not going to help anybody, it's not going to help get
this done as soon as possible. Instead, it's lengthened the testimony. I expected you would
have been on and off after maybe a day, but anyway. Anything? So try to answer the
questions that are asked. Otherwise we'll be here for another week. We can't have that.
Phillips: I understand. The hard thing, your honor, is when I answer, he repeats what comes
back and asks it three different other ways, expecting to get a different answer because he
didn't like the answer I gave him. So I'm just trying not to say the wrong thing and agree to
something that I know is not true. So -- but I understand the process better now, and that we
have our chance to put our side.

Judge: You do. You have your chance. I mentioned that before, that your attorneys will flesh
out and -- but it seems the questions are pretty straightforward, and sometimes when you
volunteer information, sometimes that's not always the best thing for you.
Phillips: I understand.
Judge: All right.
Ms. Stebbins: Your honor, the one thing I would ask is some of these questions are extremely
loaded and argumentative, and I know it's cross-examination, and there's leeway, but "there
were numerous things that were not true in that email" -- in fact, there are were two things that
he said he believed at the time, and those turned out not to be true. But each question builds,
you know, on the last one, they're all compound, they're all -- including numerous things that
the witness, I imagine, feels compelled to dispute if they were slightly simpler questions and
didn't include, "in that prior email where you lied." So the issue, your honor, I think is that -- I'm
not saying that Mr. Phillips should not be careful --
Judge: I don't recall counsel saying "that prior email where you lied."
Ms. Stebbins: He said, "in that prior email where you made numerous statements that you now
acknowledge are untrue --"
Mr. Panish: That's exactly true.
Judge: That is true.
Ms. Stebbins: It was two statements, your honor.
Mr. Panish: No. It was five.
Ms. Stebbins: But the point being, your honor, they're all compound questions, they all have
multiple parts, and so I think that might be part of the problem. I'm not saying the witness
should not answer the question. I think that that -- oftentimes in my observation, he has
answered the question, he's said no, and then provided a small color, and then Mr. Panish has
checked back, "so that's a no, that's a no, that's a no." Even on cross-examination, a witness is
not required to answer yes or no as long as he answers the question. I believe he's trying to do
that. I understand there's an issue with argumentativeness, but I also think some of the
questions, frankly, are argumentative.
Judge: Well, if you think they're argumentative -- you need to object if you think they're
argumentative.
Ms. Stebbins: I will, your honor.
Judge: okay. Let's try to -- this witness has been up for a couple of days, so -- how much
longer, Plaintiffs' counsel, Mr. Panish, do you think you have?
Mr. Panish: I wanted to finish today. I told them at the very beginning I want to finish. But, your
honor -- I don't need to get into it, you've said it. I haven't argued with him one time, I haven't
argued with you, I'm just trying to -- I'm biting my tongue trying not to do it. I almost did it, but I
didn't. And I know you would have been on me if I did.
Judge: I would have.
Mr. Panish: Appropriately so. But I didn't, and I've really tried hard. But, you know, for me, you
know, that's hard. But I've done it. And -- anyway, I don't need to say anything else. I
understand exactly -- everybody knows in this room what's going on, so let's go. I'm ready to
go.
Phillips: And I appreciate what you said.
Judge: Try to answer it so we can finish.
Phillips: Your honor, I understand. I want to get to work, too, so --
Judge: Thank you. All right. Let's call the jury back in.
(short break taken)
(back to open court)
Judge: Let's continue.

Mr. Panish: Mr. Phillips, before we had our break, we were talking about exhibit 304, dash, 1.
Q. Do you have that in front of you, sir?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. And this was your response to Mr. Kane's email about what was happening, right?
A. That is correct.
Q. Okay. And Mr. Kane asked you -- you said you were going to be out at Staples, right?
A. Correct.
Q. And then you were praying that Michael could engage and start to work out and eat, right?
A. Correct.
Q. And then you wrote to Mr. Branca and said -- well, first you have said "anyway, things are
not as bleak as Kenny emails," referring to what you said, the hysteria, right?
A. The two emails from Kenny about the -- yes.
Q. That responded to --
A. Yes.
Q. -- with those statements, right?
A. Correct.
Q. And then John-- that's Mr. Branca, right?
A. Correct.
Q. And he was the one that asked about the substance abuse counselor, psychologist, spiritual
advisor person, right?
A. Correct.
Q. And you told him "now is not the right time to introduce a new person into his life," meaning Mr.
Jackson?
A. Correct.
Q. Is that right?
A. That's correct.
Q. Okay, sir. Now I wanted to just go back and -- I apologize, but there's one question I wanted to ask
you on exhibit 319, dash, 1, about the straightjacket email. That's just my term. That's not what it says.
Okay?
A. I've got it.
Q. And -- it was Michael Jackson that was the person that was supposed to get up onstage, not you,
Right?
A. That's correct.
Q. And Michael Jackson, if he couldn't go forward because he needed a straightjacket, that's the one
that they would call the insurance company for, right?
A. Well, the way I read it, I can't tell if they're referring to me, if dan is referring to himself or Michael.
Q. Sir, when it says "get a straightjacket, call our insurance company back bad," if you're in a
straightjacket, there's no insurance company that is going to step in for the tour, is there?
A. No, I understand, but I thought it was a fgure of speech.
Q. Sir, there's no insurance for you if you have a mental breakdown that AEG is going to be
reimbursed, is there, sir?
A. No, I'm sure there isn't.
Q. It's only for Mr. Jackson, if he needs a straightjacket and can't go onstage, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. Okay. Now, sir, you -- Mr. Ortega sent you those emails, you -- he was concerned about Mr.
Jackson's condition, right?
A. Correct.
Q. And, in substance, Mr. Ortega was telling you he didn't know -- or he didn't believe Mr. Jackson was
capable of performing the shows, correct?
A. He wasn't sure.
Q. He had concerns, correct?
A. That is correct.
Q. Concerns about whether Michael Jackson would be able to perform?
A. Correct.
Q. And concerns about Michael Jackson's state of mind?
A. That is correct.
Q. And then the email that we just were looking at, 304, dash, 1, you sent that at 8:39 pm in the
evening -- correct? -- of the 20th?
A. That's right.
Q. And then they wrote back and thanked you, correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. And they said "Don't have Michael sign anything that's not reviewed by Joel and me," meaning Mr.
Branca, correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. And Joel, is that Mr. Katz?
A. Yes.
Q. Those are lawyers?
A. Those are lawyers, yes.
Q. So they were concerned they didn't want him to sign anything, right?
A. That's what he said.
Q. Due to his mental condition?
Ms. Stebbins: Objection, calls for speculation.
Judge: Sustained.
Q. Do you have an understanding of why they didn't want Mr. Jackson to sign anything?
A. Yes. It's covered in the second paragraph of the previous email.
Q. Okay. That's about allgood?
A. Correct -- correct, correct.
Q. Okay. All right. So you didn't have him sign anything, right?
A. No.
Q. And then about -- strike that. Before that email came to you, you forwarded your email that you sent
to Mr. Ortega about gaining immense respect for Dr. Murray. He doesn't need the job, he's ethical and
unbiased, that email. You forwarded that to two people, right?
A. I'd have to look at it, but if you say so, yes.
Q. Well, I'll show it to you.
A. Okay.
Q. That's fine.
A. Yes, I see it.
Q. Do you have it? I'll give it to you. Here, here's another one. 307, dash, 1. Now, this was sent at
8:49, correct?
A. That is correct.
Q. Okay. And this was sent to private emails of people, right?
A. Well, Tim's private email, and one of four that I have for Paul, and then Frank Dileo, that's the only
email I had for him in my Blackberry.
Q. Well, sir, you didn't send it to Mr. Leiweke's AEG Live email where you sent all the other emails that
I've shown you today, did you?
A. That is correct.
Q. And you didn't send it to Mr. Gongaware's email where you sent all the other emails I've shown you
to that address, did you?
A. That is correct.
Q. And kazoodi -- do you know what kazoodi is?

A. I'm not sure what it means or what it stands for, but I know it's one of four emails I have for Paul
Gongaware.
Q. Well, sir, you told us in your deposition you didn't even know who kazoodi was, didn't you, sir?
A. At that time, I didn't.
Q. And, sir, when you signed your deposition, you didn't change it then, either, did you?
A. I didn't know then, when I signed the deposition, I didn't know what kazoodi was.
Q. Well, did you still have your Blackberry?
A. No. It changed. I still have my contacts.
Q. Did you look in your contacts and search kazoodi to find out who it was before you signed your
deposition under oath where you said you'd never heard of that person?
A. No.
Q. And, sir, do you know if Mr. Gongaware received this email?
A. I don't remember if he responded to me or not by email or by phone. Because, remember, I did
send this on my AEG Live email.
Q. Sir, my question was, do you know if Mr. Gongaware ever received the forwarded email?
A. I don't know.
Q. Did you ever talk to him about it?
A. I would have -- I would assume I had, but I don't know.
Q. Can you tell us here today that you ever spoke to Mr. Gongaware about this forwarded email?
A. I just don't remember if I had spoken to Paul about this specific email, no.
Q. And can you read us what you said in the email, sir?
A. "This guy is really starting to concern me. Read his email and my response. Dr. Murray and I
are meeting with MJ At 4:00 pm today at the Forum."
Q. Okay. "this guy" is Kenny Ortega isn't it, sir?
A. That is correct.
Q. And "this guy" that's starting to concern you is Kenny Ortega, who's written you two emails about
Mr. Jackson's physical and mental condition, correct?
A. That is correct.
Q. And "this guy" is the man that you said "let's put out the fire, not burn down the building"?
A. That is correct.
Q. And "this guy" is the person that you told him that you have immense respect for Dr. Murray, that
he's very successful, that you check everyone out, that Dr. Murray doesn't need the gig, and that Dr.
Murray is unbiased and ethical, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And you were concerned about Mr. Ortega, that's why you wrote back that email about Dr. Murray,
isn't it, sir?
A. That is correct.
Q. Because you didn't want Mr. Ortega to mess up the show because of his concerns about Mr.
Jackson, correct?
A. I was -- I had two concerns. One is I wanted Kenny to be open-minded until he had the meeting.
Then my other concern which was expressed in the email to Michael Kane, Michael's business
manager, was that I didn't want Kenny to quit.
Q. Did you ever have a Concern that Mr. Jackson was not doing very well?
A. Of course.
Q. Did you ever write that to Mr. Ortega, "I'm really concerned about Michael's physical condition"?
A. We all felt -- there was nothing to write. There was no reason to write that.
Q. Did you ever write to Mr. Ortega "I'm very concerned about Michael's physical condition"?
A. No, because we all were. It was it didn't need to be written.
Q. So the answer would be no, sir?
A. It would be no.
Q. Now, Mr. Anschutz, he -- this -- at this point in time, you're about 30 some million dollars over -- or
$30 million plus in advance production costs?

A. I don't know if it was 30 or 28 at that time. I'm not sure. But, still, it was a lot of money.
Q. Well -- okay. Now, Mr. Anschutz, did he have a reputation for being tight at the company, sir?
A. For being what?
Ms. Stebbins: Objection, irrelevant.
Judge: Overruled.
Q. Tight about money.
A. He was -- no, I mean -- I dealt mostly with timm and dan when it came to money, so I don't know.
We, obviously, built a giant business in Los Angeles that he put the money up for, so --
Q. So what is the answer to the question?
A. The answer is no.
Q. Okay. Well, I want to show you now exhibit 646-26 that was sent to you by Mr. Leiweke about Mr.
Anschutz, and about the ticket sales for the concert. You've seen that before, have you not, sir?
A. Yes.
Ms. Stebbins: I'm going to object to this, it's irrelevant and 352.
Judge: Before you show it, let me take a look at it.
Mr. Panish: Sure. Here. I have another copy.
Judge: So your objection is?
Ms. Stebbins: It's irrelevant and rule 352.
Judge: Overruled.
Mr. Panish: Okay. Let's put that up?
Ms. Chang: Exhibit 649.
Mr. Panish: I misidentified. 649, dash, 26.
Q. Now, Mr. Anschutz, he asked a Lot about the ticket money, didn't he, sir? The revenue?
A. He might have asked Timm. He didn't ask me.
Q. You didn't see emails where he was asking five or more times about the ticket money and where it
Was?
A. Unless they were addressed to me, no.
Q. Okay. And can you read what Mr. Leiweke wrote to you?
A. Sure. "Phil can be such a paranoid scrooge. He wants to know why I am so certain that none
of our key folks are taking Michael Jackson tickets and scalping them."
Q. All right. Stop for a second. Who is Phil?
A. I assume he's speaking about Phil Anschutz.
Q. Mr. Anschutz, was he raising a question, to your knowledge, about the revenue from the ticket
sales?
A. In this -- in this email, yes.
Q. And -- is that Ebenezer Scrooge that he's referring to?
A. I assume so.
Q. And Ebenezer Scrooge, just -- you know, without getting into the -- I think it's Charles Dickens, isn't
it?
A. It's certainly Charles Dickens, yes.
Q. And he's the man that has a reputation for, at least until the end of the movie, being tight with
money?
A. Yes.
Q. Not very -- withdraw that. Now, sir, Mr. Anschutz was concerned about the money that had been
laid out for the production costs, wasn't he?
Ms. Stebbins: Objection, lacks foundation.
Mr. Panish: To your knowledge.

Judge: Overruled.
Phillips: The word -- the word "concerned" -- like any businessman, I mean, I can't really yes.
Yes.
Q. Now, sir, when you wrote about Mr. Ortega concerning you, you knew that you had a lot of money
laid out in this project, correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. And you knew that if it didn't go off as scheduled, there could be problems, correct?
A. Please define "problems."
Q. Mr. Anschutz would not be happy with you?
A. I was -- I was not worried about that.
Q. So you weren't worried about Mr. Anschutz being upset at all?
A. No.
Q. No concern about Mr. Anschutz at all?
A. It did not cross my mind.
Q. So it wouldn't have been no big deal to Mr. Anschutz if you're out 30 some million dollars, right?
A. Not when it was secured.
Ms. Stebbins: Objection, calls for speculation as to what would or would not be of concern to
another person.
Judge: Overruled.
A. Not when I felt we were secured, we had collateral.
Q. So it's not a Big deal to Mr. Anschutz?
A. I'm not saying

Ms. Stebbins: Objection.
Phillips: I didn't say it wasn't a Big deal.
Mr. Panish: I think she was trying to object, so you've got to wait.
Phillips: Sorry.
Ms. Stebbins: Same objection, lacks foundation as to what concerned another person.
Judge: If he knew. Overruled.
Phillips: I don't know.
Q. When you wrote "this --" I'm sorry. Could you go back to 307, please. When you wrote "this guy is
starting to concern me" -- I'm sorry. That's the wrong number. That was -- could you help me out?
A. It's 307, the top of the first page.
Q. Okay. Thank you.
A. You're welcome.
Q. When you wrote "this guy is starting to concern me," you weren't referring to Mr. Jackson's physical
condition, were you?
A. No, I -- in this email, I was referring to ken.
Q. And when you forwarded on that email that we've been through to these gentlemen, to their private
emails, did you say anything about Mr. Jackson's physical condition?
A. No.
Q. And Mr. Leiweke -- did you discuss this private email that you sent to Mr. Leiweke with Mr.
Leiweke?
A. I don't recall if we discussed it or not.
Q. Would it be the same answer for Mr. Gongaware?
Ms. Stebbins: Objection, asked and answered.

Judge: Overruled.
A. I just don't remember if we had a followup discussion about this.
Q. Okay. So for everyone, you don't know?
A. I don't know. I don't know.
Q. All right. Thank you. And, sir, what were you concerned about?
A. With respect to Kenny Ortega?
Q. Yes, sir.
A. What I -- what I testified already to, two things. One, that Kenny was getting himself into a kind of
entrenched position where he wasn't waiting for this meeting to happen with Michael and his physician
To figure out what was wrong at rehearsal, what was wrong with Michael, because none of us were
doctors or knew what was in Michael's head. So there was that issue, and then I was also quite
concerned that Kenny would just throw up his hands in the air and quit, which I think would have been
a very big problem, too.
Q. Sir, is that something that you just remembered now, those concerns you had?
A. In reading this email.
Q. "yes"?
A. That's what --
Q. You just remember now as you sit here?
A. I'm remembering a lot of things now, but yes.
Q. You didn't remember that for four years until right now, isn't that true?
A. I didn't think about it for four years.
Q. When you were asked in your deposition -- well, let's see first what you said in your deposition
under oath.
A. Okay.
Q. And then we'll go from there. So that would be at page 219, line 7, to page 221, line 4. 14. I'm sorry.
Your honor, for the record -- Mr. Phillips, when those email addresses -- you see there's no email
addresses?
A. Yes.
Q. That means that those are someone's private email, that's why it's blacked out. Okay?
A. Okay.
Mr. Panish: All right. Are we okay now, counsel?
Mr. Putnam: Uh-huh.
Mr. Panish: I'm sorry?
Mr. Putnam: Yes.
Ms. Stebbins: Yes.
Mr. Panish: Okay. We can play this. Let's see what you said.
Q. You forwarded the Ortega email of June 20 at 1:48 pm to Mr. Leiweke, right?
A. Correct.
Q. And who -- what's who's kazoodi@earthlink.Net?
A. I have no idea.
Q. Somebody in your computer, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And Mr. Dileo, right?
A. Correct.
Q. And is that Leiweke's personal account? What is that, that email address?
A. Yeah, I'm not sure.
Q. Why didn't you use the ao -- AEG email address?

A. I have no idea.
Q. Now, what did you write to Mr. Leiweke and Mr. Dileo and the other two -- and the other
person?
A. I said "This guy is really starting to concern me. Read his email and my response. Dr.
Murray and I are meeting with MJ at 4:00 pm today at the Forum."
Q. Now, when you say "this guy is really starting to concern me," that was Mr. Ortega?
A. I think so. I'm not 100 percent sure.
Q. What were you concerned about?
A. I'm not sure of the context of the email I sent, what I was referring to.
Q. I'm sorry. You're not sure of the context?
A. I'm not sure of, when I'm saying "this guy is really starting to concern me," if I was talking
about Kenny. Could be. Could be. It could be about Kenny.
Q. I'm sorry?
A. It could be referring to Kenny Ortega.
Q. Right. And isn't it likely referring to him, given that the next sentence is "read his email and
my response"?
A. Probably.
Q. Okay. And what was it -- what concerned you about Mr. Ortega's email to you?
A. Yeah, I don't -- I don't remember what it was.
Q. All right. Well, you wrote "this guy," probably Ortega, "is starting to concern me," right?
A. Uh-huh, correct.
Q. And you forwarded Mr. Leiweke Ortega's email?
A. Correct.
Q. And you don't remember what you were concerned about?
A. I don't -- I don't remember. Whatever it is, I'm reading it now, so --
Q. Okay.
Q. So you're not 100 percent sure it was Ortega?
A. Yes.
Q. And you didn't remember in your deposition, right?
A. Correct.
Q. And after your deposition, you read your whole deposition, right?
A. Correct.
Q. And you reviewed all the emails and you -- right?
A. No.
Q. You didn't review the emails attached to your deposition when you signed it under penalty of
perjury?
A. I don't remember them being -- I don't remember them being attached to the -- I don't remember it
being attached.
Q. Well, here is your deposition right here, sir.
A. Okay.
Q. Tell us if the emails are attached.
A. Yes, they are.
Q. So would you read that and not look at the emails that are being referenced in the questions?
A. I went -- I went through it, I didn't remember if the emails -- just now if the emails were attached.
This was a long time ago.
Q. Okay. Well, when you're going to sign something under penalty of perjury --
A. Right.
Q. -- is it important to you to read it all or just skim it?
A. Actually read it all.
Q. And to think about it before you say under oath it's true?
A. Yes. No, you're right. I --
Q. So when you read your deposition, you had the email, you read all the emails, and you thought
about it, right?
A. I'm trying to think back. I -- I did it very quickly. I did go through it, but I did it very quickly.
Q. So when you signed something under oath, you did it very quickly, you didn't really make sure it
was truthful?
A. I didn't -- I'm trying to remember what I did when I read it. I went through it quickly, it was on my
desk, it was during the workday, and I read it, and then I signed it.
Q. So you're telling us that you signed something under penalty of perjury without making sure it was
correct and true? Is that what you're telling us?
A. No. I'm telling you I signed it because I believed it was true when I signed it.
Q. Okay. And you didn't change the testimony that I just played that you didn't remember what you
were concerned about with Mr. Ortega, correct?
A. Correct, although I believe my answer today is clarification. I'm not changing the testimony, I didn't
remember back then.
Q. Your testimony when you were asked what you were concerned about is, "I don't remember," right?
A. That is correct.
Q. And then you signed it again under penalty of perjury, "I don't remember," correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And now for the first time you're saying you remember what you were concerned about, right?
A. Because I spent the time preparing for this testimony.
Q. Is that correct, sir?
A. That is correct.
Q. So is it the truth that we should only believe what you say now, or should we believe what you said
under oath before?
Ms. Stebbins: Objection, argumentative.

Judge: Sustained.
Q. So is it fair to say that you then, after the meeting with Dr. Murray, decided that you were going to
go to the Staples to see how Michael Jackson is doing?
A. On June 23rd, yes.
Q. Okay. The meeting was on the 20th, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. Michael didn't practice on the 21st or 22nd, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. The doctor thought it was best that he not do anything, correct?
A. Actually, it wasn't the doctor, it was Kenny.
Q. Okay. So Mr. Ortega -- so that's something else that Mr. Ortega said
at the meeting that you forgot to tell us about, is that right?
A. No.
Ms. Stebbins: Objection, misstates the testimony.
Judge: Sustained.
Q. Did Mr. Ortega suggest at the meeting that Mr. Jackson take two days off?
A. Yes, he did. I think I testified to that.
Q. And then you were going to go there to the staples and see for yourself, right?
A. Well, I -- I had promised Kenny that I would office -- move my office from the AEG Live offices at
mid Wilshire to the Staples Center, where I also had an office, and I was going to work out of there for
the remainder of the rehearsals.
Q. Well, there was no reason you couldn't have gone there before, is there?
A. We just -- we had just moved to Staples Center.
Q. Sir, was there any reason that you couldn't have gone there before the 23rd of June?
A. There was no reason for me to go there because we had moved from the Forum to the Staples
Center, and the Forum was difficult for me from where our offices are.
Q. A lot of traffic?
A. A. Lot -- a lot of traffic, yes.
Q. So you were concerned about the traffic, so you didn't go to the Forum?
A. No. I was concerned -- first of all, Paul was there, and I had -- as you've said many times, I'm the
CEO of the company, I had other business that I had to take care of of the company.
Q. Now, sir, prior -- I want to show you exhibit number 665, dash, 104.
A. Thank you.
Q. You're welcome. Have you ever seen that before, sir?
A. No.
Q. Okay. You never reviewed that, is that right?
A. I've never seen this, no.
Q. Okay. Now I'd like to play your deposition. You just told me, all of us, that it was Kenny Ortega that
suggested at the meeting on June 20th that Michael Jackson take two days off. Did I hear that
correctly?
A. That's my recollection, yes.
Q. That's your testimony under oath here today?
A. Yes, my recollection, yes.
Q. Well, is it true or not true?
A. True. That's my testimony.
Q. That's your truthful testimony here today?
A. That's what I testified to, yes.
Q. Well, is it true?
A. Yes.
Mr. Panish: Okay. Let's play the deposition, 213, line 20, to 214, line 22.
Q. Well, how was it left June 20th?
A. It was left that Michael was going to come to rehearsal on Tuesday, which I believe was the
23rd of June.
Q. And why not Monday?
A. I don't know if Kenny I think Kenny had to do something. I don't -- I'm not 100 percent sure
why it wasn't Monday. But there was a reason it was starting up on Tuesday.
Q. Was there any -- was it discussed that Michael would be
Taking a Couple of days off?
A. No.
Q. You know what? Just stop it right there. That's fine, because the next goes into that email which
you say you've never seen before. So in your deposition, you testified that it was never discussed on
June 20th that Michael was going to take a couple of days off, correct?
A. Well, I'm not -- I'm not sure I know the -- I understand the difference between starting rehearsals up
on Tuesday or -- or taking -- Michael taking a couple of days off. It's the same fact, they weren't
working on Sunday and Monday.
Q. Sir, you were asked whether or not it was discussed that Michael would take a couple of days off.
Don't you remember that testimony?
A. Ken -- yeah, and Kenny told him to take a couple of days off, but I don't know what the reason was.
Q. Sir, you just told us five minutes ago that at the June 20th meeting, Kenny told Michael to take a
couple of days off, didn't you?
A. Correct.
Q. We just played your testimony where you were asked whether Kenny or anyone told Michael to
take a couple of days off, and you said no. Do you remember that, sir?
A. I said I don't remember.
Mr. Panish: No. Sir, do you want -- let's look at it. Was that page 217?
Mr. Bloss: 213 to 214.
Phillips: Isn't that what you just played?
Mr. Panish: Yeah, but you said you didn't say that, so I'm going to show you.
Mr. Bloss: 214, line 4.
Mr. Panish: Okay. I'm going to read it, you read your answer. Okay?
Phillips: Okay.
Mr. Panish: Question, "Was it discussed that Michael would be taking a couple of days off?"
Q. What was your answer in your deposition?
A. "No."
Q. And then, sir, after that, you read that deposition and all the exhibits you looked at, right?
A. Correct.
Q. And you again signed under penalty of perjury that that testimony was correct, didn't you?
A. Right, but didn't -- okay.
Q. You want to read more of it now?
A. You can.
Q. Well, sir, you were asked specifically was it discussed he was taking a couple of days off, you said
no, right?
A. Initially, yes.
Q. Then you signed it under penalty of perjury, and you didn't change it, did you?
A. Well, if you go further down in that exchange, I -- I clarified that I wasn't sure, but I signed it, yes.
Q. No. Then you go on to say, "I don't remember." you didn't say, "I wasn't sure," did you?
A. Is there -- correct. Correct. Correct.
Q. Correct me if I'm wrong, sir.
A. No, I -- I don't want to argue with you. Correct.
Q. Well, it's okay if you -- if you want to correct what you said, that's okay. That's not arguing.
A. It's fine.
Q. Okay.
A. I wasn't -- I wasn't sure of the answer, but it's fine.
Q. All right. So this -- you know, I did ask you this gentleman that you mentioned -- and I know I'm
going to say it wrong -- Loeffler --
A. Yes, Dave Loeffler.
Q. He was there also the 23rd and 24th, right?
A. Yeah, he was -- he was at Staples Center those days.
Q. And you had him go there to Michael's dressing room to help him if there was anything he could
help him with, right?
A. I had him in the building. Okay? Not necessarily in Michael's dressing room. He may have gone in
once or twice to ask Michael if he needed anything, but that's why he was there.
Q. Now, Mr. Ortega had asked you whether a physical therapist could be arranged for Mr. Jackson,
Correct?
A. I think in one of the emails, yes.
Q. And as of June 22nd, you were still looking for a physical therapist, correct?
A. I think Paul sent an email looking for -- asking what about teams because we're in the sports team
business, they figured that we might know a good physical therapist for Michael.
Q. Okay. Well, let me show you, sir, 329-1. And Arlyne Lewiston is your assistant, is that right?
A. She is, she is.
Q. Okay.
A. Correct.
Q. Correct what?
A. Correct, she's my assistant, correct, this email is from her.
Q. Okay. You've seen this before?
A. No.
Q. Does this refresh your recollection that on June 22nd, your company was still looking for a physical
therapist for Michael Jackson?
A. I wasn't on this email exchange, so I had -- this is the first time I'm seeing it.
Q. That's not my question.
A. Okay.
Q. My question is does this refresh your recollection that you were still looking for a physical therapist
on June 22nd?
A. I was -- I wasn't looking for a physical therapist for Michael, but, obviously, Arlyne was.
Q. Okay. When I say "you," I mean AEG Live.
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. So it doesn't refresh your recollection, is that right?
A. No, but it is -- it is what it says.
Q. Okay. Well, let me show you exhibit number 8146. Do you remember talking to Mr. Ms. Lewiston
about securing a physical therapist for Mr. Jackson, sir?
A. I think it might have been Paul that spoke to her. I honestly don't remember.
Q. Well, let's see if this email refreshes your recollection.
A. Okay. Okay. This is in response to Paul Gongaware's email to arlyne
Ms. Stebbins: I'm going to object to testimony about the email because the witness isn't on it.
No problem using it to refresh recollection, but --
Judge: Sustained. Just read it to yourself and tell us whether it helps you remember.
Q. The first thing I want to ask you, have you ever seen this before, sir?
A. No.
Mr. Panish: Okay. So why don't you read.
Judge: To himself.
Mr. Panish: To yourself, page 2 and page 1.
Phillips: Yes, I've read it.
Mr. Panish: Okay.
Q. Does that refresh your recollection as to whether you had discussions regarding a physical
therapist for Mr. Jackson?
A. It -- it doesn't, but I assume he did. I mean, I don't remember having the discussions. I'm answering
that question, but I'm assuming I did.
Q. Well, I just want to know if you can tell us on June 22nd, was AEG Live, to your knowledge, trying
to get a physical therapist for Mr. Jackson?
A. Based on reading this email, yes, we were.
Q. Did you -- did you know a physical therapist?
A. No.
Q. And as far as you know, Dr. Murray wasn't providing any physical therapy, was he?
A. I didn't know.
Q. So you don't know?
A. I don't know.
Q. I want to -- did -- I want to show you, sir, exhibit 335, dash, 3, and ask you whether that's an email
you sent, sir.
A. Yes, this is an email exchange between Michael Kane, Michael's business manager, and me,
copying Frank Dileo.
Q. My question was, did you write the email?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, sir, let's look on page 335, page 3. And this is Mr. Kane asking you a question, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. Okay. And let's look at that, please, put it up. Okay. What was Mr. Kane asking you?
A. He was asking me "On the list of doctors that will help get up from today to the opening
night, where does arnold Klein stand on the list?"
Q. And do you have an understanding of who Dr. Klein was?
A. I have, from Michael amir williams.
Q. Well, you knew that as of June 23rd?
A. I knew it prior -- I knew it prior to that.
Q. How much prior?
A. Whenever we had the meeting at the house where I described Michael's behavior as being vacant.
Q. Is that -- that's -- I haven't heard that. That's new to me. So let me ask you about that. That's not the
June 20th meeting?
A. No. This was a production meeting at the house.
Q. Okay. So that's not the late May/early June/mid June meeting?
A. It was probably sometime in either late may or early June.
Q. And who was present at that meeting?
A. Frank Dileo, Paul Gongaware, Michael and me, to the best of my recollection, were at that meeting.
Q. Okay. And -- and you still stick to your testimony that at no time did you ever believe that any
doctors were giving Mr. Jackson any type of prescription medications, correct?
A. I didn't know what Dr. Klein was doing.
Q. Okay. That wasn't my question.
A. Yes.
Mr. Panish: Could I ask it to be read back, please?
Judge: Okay, you may.
(the question is read)
Ms. Stebbins: I'm going to object, misstates the testimony.
Phillips: I --
Judge: Overruled.
Phillips: I think at that time -- at that time, based on Michael Amir's -- what he said to me, there
was some kind of treatment that Michael was getting from Arnold Klein, but he's a
dermatologist, so I wasn't sure.
Mr. Panish: Okay. But that wasn't my question.
Phillips: I know.
Q. Could you try to answer my question?
A. I will.
Q. Do you still stick to your position that at no time did you ever believe that any physician was giving
Michael Jackson any type of prescription medications?
A. Correct.
Q. Okay. Let's see what you wrote back to Mr. Kane. This is one of the emails you reviewed with your
lawyers, right?
A. Correct.
Q. To prepare you to testify, right?
A. And this was on June 23rd.
Q. Right.
A. Yes.
Q. I didn't ask that, but thank you.
A. You're welcome.
Q. Okay. Read to us what you wrote about Dr. Arnold Klein and Mr. Jackson in response to Mr. Kane
asking you whether this is one of the physicians that's "going to help us get Michael ready to perform."
A. I said "He scares us to death because he is shooting him up with something."
Q. When somebody gets shot up, does that usually include some kind of prescription medication?
A. Well, let me -- I'll answer your question, not refer to this or what happened at this time. But shooting
up could be Botox, it could be a number of things; but, yes, could also be prescription medication.
Q. Would it scare you to death if a doctor is giving someone Botox?
A. Well, at this time, Michael Kane had discussed a bill --
Q. Sir, my question was --
A. Yes, it would.
Q. Would it scare you -- "scare us" -- "us" is AEG Live, right?
A. Correct.
Q. Would it scare AEG Live to know that a physician was giving someone Botox, scare you to death?
A. No.
Q. Would it scare you to death if somebody was giving someone a flu shot?
A. No.
Q. Would it scare you to death if someone was giving someone a B -- is it b-12 shots that you give?
A. Uh-huh, yes.
Q. Would that scare you to death?
A. No.
Q. But you were scared to death about Dr. Klein shooting up, as you say, Mr. Jackson, is that right?
A. Based on a conversation I had with Michael Kane, yes.
Q. And when you say "shooting up," does that mean someone has like a hypodermic needle and
they're taking a needle and injecting something into another human being?
A. That would be an injection, yes.
Q. Well, is that what you mean when you say "shooting him up"?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, sir, did you attempt to find out the substance that Mr. Jackson was being shot up with?
A. It would not have been something that, as Michael's promoter, I would have had access to that
information, no.
Q. Well, sir, you were not only the promoter, you were the producer, too, weren't you?
A. As the promoter or producer, yes.
Q. You were both?
A. Correct.
Q. For the second time ever?
A. As a producer?
Q. And a promoter.
A. I produced many shows before, yes.
Q. For AEG Live?
A. No.
Q. This was only the second time that AEG Live had been a promoter and a producer for a show,
correct?
A. No. The shows in Vegas, that we do in Vegas -- Celine Dion, we produce and promote, Bette
Midler, we'd produce and promote, Prince, we produced and promoted.
Q. Were you scared to death that any of them were being shot up?
A. I -- no one ever showed me a medical bill from any of them, no.

Q. Were you scared to death that any of them were being shot up, sir?
A. No, I wasn't.
Q. Now, sir, I want to see what you since you said it was nothing that you as a promoter would be
Involved in to try to learn about -- learn what Mr. Jackson was being shot up with -- right?
A. I wasn't sure how -- how would we learn that.
Mr. Panish: Okay. Well, let's see what you said in your deposition, page 306-24 to 311-11. I
assume we're disregarding the break?
Judge: Jurors, do you think you need a Break? We can keep going, right? Okay.
Q. Mr. Kane was Mr. Jackson's business manager, eventually, is that correct?
A. That is correct.
Q. And he sent you an email on June 23, at 11:22, asking "On the list of doctors that will
help get up from today to the opening night, where does Arnold Klein stand on the list?" Right?
Probably "up" was "us," should have been "us"?
A. Uh-huh, right.
Q. And what was your response?
A. "He scares us to death because he is shooting him up with something."
Q. Why did he scare you to death?
A. I don't remember why I used that terminology. Because he was treating Michael, and Dr.
Murray was -- was Michael's primary care physician, and I don't think Dr. Murray knew. I was -- I'm
speculating, but I didn't think Dr. Murray knew what treatments Dr. Klein was giving Michael.
Q. Well, you told Dr. Murray at the first meeting in June that Michael was seeing Dr. Klein --
A. Yes.
Q. -- right?
A. Correct.
Q. And did you have reason to believe that Dr. Murray didn't follow through with that
information one way or the other?
A. I had no knowledge one way or another.
Q. Well, you wrote "because he," Dr. Klein, "is shooting him up with something." how did you
learn that?
A. From Michael Kane.
Q. From Michael Kane. Michael Kane told that you Dr. Klein was shooting Michael Jackson up
with something?
A. No, Michael Kane told me that he had a bll for $48,000, and it was pages of treatments,
Restylane, all of this -- Botox, Restylane, and then something called DM or IM. Something like that. I
don't remember.
Q. DM as in Demerol?
A. Or -- I don't think it was DM, I think it was IM.
Q. Well, Mr. Kane wrote to you "I have the details of what he is doing," right? Did he send
you Mr. Jackson's medical records relating to Dr. Klein?
A. No
Q. Did he send you a list of -- what did he tell you about what --
A. Just told me he had an invoice for $48,000, and that's all he told me.
Q. Well, you -- your email back to Mr. Kane was "We should discuss later today," right?
A. Correct.
Q. And did you do that?
A. I don't remember having that conversation with him.
Q. Well, where was the conversation where you got the information about the $48,000 bill and
the list of items that were being used?
A. It would have been somewhere around this time. I'm not sure if it was on the phone or if it
was at the Staples Center.
Q. And why -- you used the phrase "he scares us to death because he is shooting him up with
Something." what was it that Dr. Klein was shooting him up with that scared you to death?
A. I don't know. That's what scared me. I wasn't -- I had no idea.
Q. So with -- what's the connection -- I'm sorry -- between being scared and shooting him up
with something if you didn't know what was being used?
A. Because there were a lot of injection -- there were a lot of bills, invoices, for injections called
IM on this invoice, and I had no idea what that was.
Q. It could have been DM?
A. It was IM.
Q. Your first answer was it was DM. Do you remember that?
A. Yeah, but that's not what I -- that's not what it was.
Q. You made a mistake?
A. Yes.
Q. Sir, at page 2 of 335, Mr. Kane wrote back to you, did he not? And you told him about how scared
you were?
A. Yes.
Q. And could you read what he said to you in response to your email on the 23rd?
A. "Well, since we owe him $48,000, and he wants payment, maybe I should stop paying him
and he'll stop shooting him up. I have the details of what he is doing."
Q. Did you follow up on -- ask him, "what are the details of what's going on?"
A. He actually showed me the invoice when we were at Staples Center.

Q. What day was that, sir?
A. It was either the 23rd or 24th. I don't remember.
Q. Well, sir, let's take a Look -- well, I already asked you that. Now, sir, you told us that on the 23rd
and 24th, Michael Jackson -- you were at the rehearsals, right?
A. 23rd and 24th -- yes.
Q. And Michael Jackson did phenomenal?
A. Yes.
Q. That might have been my word, I don't know what -- I think you said great.
A. It works either way.
Q. Okay. Now let's talk about the 23rd. What songs did he do on the 23rd?
A. I don't remember what the songs were. It could have been Billie Jean, it could have been
Thriller. I don't remember the difference between the 23rd and the 24th because he did some of the
same songs twice.
Q. Michael Jackson never did the whole show, did he, sir?
A. No, he was rehearsing.
Q. Michael Jackson never performed the whole show, did he, sir?
A. No.
Q. He never sang all the songs and danced them together, correct?
A. He wouldn't have. They weren't ready for that. The answer is no, no.
Q. Now, on the 23rd, was Michael Jackson cold?
Q. What time did he come to practice -- or rehearsal? Excuse me.
A. I think it was in the late late afternoon, possibly early evening.
Q. Do you have an estimate?
A. He -- he arrived while I was in a Meeting, so I don't remember exactly what time he arrived.
Q. You have no estimate?

A. No.
Q. Okay. What time did you watch him rehearse?
A. I think they started rehearsals about 9:00 o'clock in the evening, 9:30.
Q. And how long -- how long did you watch?
A. The whole thing.
Q. And how long was it?
A. I think we finished at midnight, so it was probably three hours.
Q. And how much of that time was spent with Michael Jackson actually doing something?
A. I -- I'd be guessing, estimating. But Michael was on the stage quite a bit of that time. I don't
remember if that's when they did the cherry picker. Of the three hours, I'd say Michael Jackson was
actively engaged an hour and a half to two hours.
Q. And he wasn't cold, as far as you knew?
A. No one told me that.
Q. Well, did you -- did you get up and observe him close?
A. Pretty close. I wasn't onstage, I was in the lower bowl on the floor.
Q. Now, on the 24th, was Michael Jackson chilled?
A. I don't -- I don't remember if he was --
Q. Did you see Michael Jackson walking about wrapped in blankets?
A. I think it was in a -- in a robe. I don't remember there were blankets.
Q. Did you ever see Michael Jackson walking about wrapped in blankets at the rehearsal at any time
on the 24th?
A. It's possible, because the place was freezing, but I don't remember.
Q. Did you see anyone else wearing blankets, sir?
A. There were people wearing parkas and coats, yeah.
Q. Well, I want to show you -- did you know that they have surveillance video at the Staples Center?
A. Absolutely, of course.
Q. Have you looked at some of the surveillance video?
A. Just the shots of me.
Q. What shots of you did you look at, sir?
A. There were some shots that -- on the camera of me, I think on the night of the 24th.
Q. And where were you when -- who showed you these videos?
A. My attorneys.
Q. When?
A. A month ago.
Q. So that's before the two weeks that you started to prepare for your testimony?
A. That -- that -- showing me those videos, yes.
Q. So that's something additional that you didn't tell me about when I asked you everything that you
did to prepare for your testimony, right?
A. Yes, because I didn't think that was preparation, but yes.
Q. You didn't think that was preparation? Is that what you said?
A. Correct.
Q. Okay. Well, how many videotapes did you watch, sir?
A. Just a shot of me somewhere in the backstage area near the dressing room.
Q. And who else was in the video?
A. I think you faintly saw Frank Dileo in that video.
Q. And how many -- you said you watched videos. How much did you watch, sir?
A. It wasn't. It was one stream. I'm not sure it was a Video. It was one stream from the security
camera.
Q. Was Michael Jackson in any of those streams?
A. With us together in frame, I don't remember if I saw that.
Q. That wasn't my question. Was Michael Jackson --
Q. I haven't finished the question.
A. Okay.
Q. Was Michael Jackson in any of the videos that you watched that your lawyer showed you about a
month ago?
A. There were shots -- I believe Michael was in a frame or two, and then I think Frank was in a frame
or two, but they're mostly me.
Q. What I'm asking about Michael Jackson, was he or was he not in any of the videotape or frames or
streaming video that you've called it that your lawyer showed you --
A. I -- finish.
Q. I'm finished.
A. I think so.
Q. Okay. And was Michael Jackson wrapped in blankets in any of those videotaped shots or streaming
video, whatever you want to call it, that your lawyer showed you?
A. It's very possible. I thought it was a robe, but it's very possible.
Q. So before your lawyer showed you those videos, you never knew that Michael Jackson was
wrapped in any blankets, is that right?
A. I still don't know.
Q. You've never seen any videos, they didn't show you, of Michael --
A. I don't remember -- I've testified I don't remember if he was wearing -- if there was a blanket over
his shoulder or a robe.
Q. Now, we talked a little bit about Mr. Taylor, right?
A. Mr. Who?
Q. Taylor.
A. The insurance broker, Bob Taylor.
Q. That was working for AEG. Remember him?
A. No, he doesn't work for

Ms. Stebbins: Objection.
Judge: Sustained.
Mr. Panish: Working on behalf of AEG. To secure insurance.
Phillips: An independent insurance broker, yes.
Q. And the way you get insurance is you have a broker that tries to secure insurance for you?
Ms. Stebbins: Objection, lacks foundation for this witness. He testified he wasn't involved in
the insurance.
Judge: He may know. Overruled.
A. I'm not -- not the right person to address that to. You should ask shawn trell or you should ask kathy
jorrie.
Q. Well, you were certainly receiving emails about the situation of trying to obtain the appropriate
insurance, were you not, sir?
A. I was on a couple of emails, but I wasn't involved in the process or dealing with the insurance
company.
Q. Did your lawyer show you emails, to prepare you for your testimony, relating to insurance coverage,
sir?
A. Just the Timm Woolley one.
Q. So you didn't see any other ones?
A. Not that I remember, no.
Q. Well, you just told me you were on several emails.
A. I'm assuming I was on several emails because of what you said. I'm not 100 percent sure.
Q. Well, let's see if we can refresh your recollection. I want to show you exhibit 363, dash, 1. Are you
on that email, sir?
A. I am, yes.
Q. You've seen that before, sir?
A. Not in preparation for my testimony, no.
Q. Do you remember being shown that ever before today?
A. No.
Q. Okay. Let's put that up. Now, who is writing this email?
A. It's from Bob Taylor to Conrad Murray.
Q. Okay. So -- and everyone on that email is either from the insurance company -- I'm sorry. Strike
that. Everyone on that email is either working with AEG or working with the broker, correct?
A. That is correct.
Q. Okay. And Conrad Murray was involved in this email chain trying to help AEG. To get the insurance,
correct?
Ms. Stebbins: Objection, misstates the document.
Judge: Overruled.
A. Conrad Murray was obviously, whatever the email says, that's what he was asked to do.
Q. Sir, this is Mr. Trell, yourself, Mr. Gongaware, Mr. Woolley from AEG, right?
A. Correct.
Q. Mr. Silcock from the insurance company, andmr. -- insurance brokers?
A. Broker, uh-huh.
Q. And Mr. Taylor from them, right?
A. Correct.
Q. And you -- the insurance broker -- you've worked with Mr. Taylor, generally, your company, many
times before this, correct?

A. Correct.
Q. And Mr. Taylor, your broker, is writing to Dr. Murray, right?
A. Correct.
Q. And he's communicating with Dr. Murray, correct?
A. Yes, to get -- to try to get medical records for the insurance carrier, yes.
Q. And it says "We -- We are dealing with a matter of great importance, and your urgent
attention will be greatly appreciated." Did I read that right, sir?
A. Yes.
Q. So you knew that it was requested of Dr. Murray to help AEG secure the insurance, correct?
Judge: Overruled.
A. From reading this, they, obviously, needed to get medical records for the insurance carrier from Dr.
Murray.
Q. My question to you, sir, was, you knew when you received this that the -- securing the insurance
was a Matter of great importance, correct?
A. That's what it says.
Q. And it was requested of Dr. Murray that his urgent attention be given to this matter of getting the
insurance, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And, sir -- can you go down just a little bit? Do you know who M. Jones -- oh, that's -- never mind.
We all know who that is. I'm sorry. You probably don't. Do you know who M. Jones is?
A. No.
Q. Okay. That's Michael Jackson. Now, sir, what -- what day was this written on?
A. It says June 25th, 2009.

Q. And did anything of significance happen on that day?
A. Mr. Jackson passed away, yes.
Q. And I assume that this is probably London time?
A. Probably.
Q. So this is probably being sent to Dr. Murray at about five minutes to 5:00 -- five minutes to 5:00 in
the morning. Does that sound -- sound about right?
Ms. Stebbins: Objection, misstates the time.
Judge: It may. This is --
Phillips: It's eight hours back.
Mr. Panish: Okay.
Q. So what's eight hours from 12:54:15 pm?
A. It would be -- so 4:54, yeah.
Q. Otherwise known as approximately five minutes to 5:00, right?
A. You are the numbers guy.
Q. No, you are.
A. I know.
Q. But that doesn't misstate the document, five minutes to 5:00 in the morning, does it, sir?
A. No, I guess not.
Q. Let's go to the next line, sir. This is -- "Please forward the clearance that you wish me to sign to
my direct fax. I will sign and return it to you immediately." Now, do you know what clearance
they're requesting?
A. No.
Q. "Once you have that, I understand you will release to me a copy of your records,
consultative notes from the periods of your involvement", is that right? Did I read that right?
A. Yeah.
Q. Do you know what that's referring to?
A. No.
Q. Okay. So basically would it be fair to say that you received this, but you didn't pay much attention to
it?
A. That would be very fair to say.
Q. But it would be fair to say that AEG is trying to utilize the services of Dr. Murray to assist them? Is
that a fair statement?
Ms. Stebbins: Objection, lacks foundation as to who is utilizing the services.
Judge: Overruled.
A. It would be obvious to me that they needed to go to Michael's personal physician to get his medical
records to qualify for the insurance, and Dr. Murray had been treating him since 2006.
Q. You keep saying that. When did Dr. Murray first treat Michael Jackson in 2006?
A. I don't know.
Q. How many times did he treat him in 2006?
A. I have no idea.
Q. How many times did he treat him before 2009?
A. That's patient/doctor relationship. I have no idea.
Q. So how do you know that he started treating him in 2006?
A. Because I read it in one of the interviews or one of the news programs after Michael passed away.
Q. So everything you see in these news programs, you believe is true?
A. No.
Q. Well, did you ever see any records of the treatment of Dr. Murray of Michael Jackson?
A. No.
Q. Do you have any idea how many times Dr. Murray ever treated Michael Jackson?
Ms. Stebbins: Objection, asked and answered.
Phillips: I --
Judge: Overruled.
A. I have no idea.
Q. Do you know whether Dr. Murray ever treated Michael Jackson's children?
A. I was told he did.
Q. Who told you that?
A. By Michael.
Q. Well, how many times did he treat his children?
A. I don't know.
Q. Did you ask him?
A. No.
Q. Okay. I'm going to show you exhibit 8445. Okay. Are you on that email, sir?
A. I'm on the top email, yes.
Q. Well, it's all forwarded to you, isn't it, sir?
A. This whole chain, yes.
Q. Okay. And the bottom email is the one that we already discussed, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And then Dr. Murray -- we can put that up. Dr. Murray wrote back to Mr. Taylor at 1917 on June
25th, so I'm stumped here. So if you subtract eight hours, that would be 1:17 in the afternoon --
A. Correct.
Q. -- of the date of Michael Jackson's death.
A. Correct.
Q. And Dr. Murray says that the request to release the records is denied, right?
A. Right.
Q. What time did Michael Jackson die? You know what? Let me rephrase what time was it when you
were zooming in your car with Mr. Loeffler and you heard on the news that there was a problem?
A. With Mr. Loeffler.
Q. Loeffler. Sorry.
A. We were behind the two SUV's and the family --
Q. No, no. When you were zooming to the cleaners, you told us, when you went to the dry cleaner.
A. No, no. I was at the dry cleaners when I got the call from Frank Dileo, and I zoomed up to the
house.
Q. What time was it when you got the call at the dry cleaners?
A. I think it was like 11:00, 11:30 in the morning.
Q. Okay. So this would be, if the time is accurate, an hour and a Half later?
A. Correct.
Q. And Dr. Murray is writing back to Mr. Taylor, and he's sending this to -- this is, then, if we go up,
forwarded to you, Mr. Gongaware, Mr. Trell and Mr. Woolley, is that right?
Ms. Stebbins: I'm going to object very briefly at the risk of being wrong about the math again,
but I think 1917 is 11:17 in the morning, not 1:17 in the afternoon.
Mr. Panish: That sounds right.
Judge: Okay. I thought he said 1:00.
Mr. Panish: I did.
Judge: Okay. So that was a Mistake.
Mr. Panish: I told you I wasn't the numbers guy.
Phillips: And you proved it.
Ms. Stebbins: I already got it wrong once --

Phillips: But you're right, it wouldn't have made any sense that Conrad Murray would be writing
an
email like that in the midst of what was going on.
Mr. Panish: That's why I was asking.
Q. Well, but if he wrote it at 11:17 you were at the cleaners, you said, at what time when you got the
call?
A. Between -- I believe between 11:00 and 11:30.
Q. So right about the same time -- 11:17 is almost right in the middle between 11:00 and 11:30, isn't it?
A. Uh-huh.
Q. "Yes"?
A. "Yes."
Q. So right about the same time that you already got called by dileo that there's a problem, Dr. Murray
is responding to the email about insurance?
A. Yeah.
Q. Right?
A. Yes.
Q. And then Mr. Taylor, 6:35 pm -- help me out.
A. 6:35 would be 10:35 in the morning.
Q. Doesn't really make sense, though, does it. Because this seems to be a response to something
that came at 11:17 in the morning, right?
A. Yes, so how could it be before that.
Q. So it would have to be later than 11:17, wouldn't it? That seems reasonable, doesn't it?
Ms. Stebbins: Objection, calls for speculation as to which time on this email is wrong.
Judge: Sustained. You're starting to lose me, too.

Mr. Panish: I'm losing what?
Judge: You're starting to lose me, too.
Mr. Panish: That's what I'm trying to understand.
Q. This was sent to you -- now you've lost me. What I'm trying to understand here, sir, is according to
the first email, it's 11:17 in the morning, and it appears that Mr. Taylor is responding to that email,
doesn't it?
A. Uh-huh, yes.
Q. Okay. So it would make sense that he's responding after that email, wouldn't it?
A. It would -- I mean, it would make sense. You can't respond to an email you haven't received, yes.
Q. So whatever time it was, whether 6:35 pm was here -- we know it couldn't have been London time,
right?
Ms. Stebbins: Objection, calls for speculation.
Judge: Sustained.
Q. Well, if -- all right. So if it's 6:35 London time, what time is it in the US?
A. It would be 10:35.
Q. And 10:35, last I checked, is before 11:17 in the morning, right?
A. Well, I don't want to confuse this any more, but there's a period of time where London is actually
nine hours later than here, and I don't know if it's this time of the year or not.
Q. Well, I think this would be daylight savings time, so -- all right. We can find that out.
A. Yeah.
Judge: I'm going to let the jury go at 4:00.
Mr. Panish: Okay.

Q. This is -- this is Dr. Murray doing some things to try to help AEG. Fair enough?
A. Fair enough.
Q. Would you agree this doesn't have anything to do with Dr. Murray being the personal doctor
providing treatment for Michael Jackson?
Judge: Overruled.
A. Having not initiated these emails, there's -- obviously, these are between Dr. Murray and Bob Taylor
-- I would just assume that in his position, Bob Taylor felt he was the one that would have the records.
Q. Well, do these emails talk about anything about Dr. Murray providing any treatment to Dr. Jackson?
A. I haven't read them, so -- I'd have to read them.
Q. All right. Fair enough. Let me show you exhibit number 402, dash,1. Have you seen this before, sir?
A. Yes, I have.
Q. Did you become aware in August that Dr. Murray issued a statement that he was -- that he had
done nothing wrong?
A. Yeah, from Michael Roth, paraphrased it in this email to me. Michael Roth who is the head of
publicity at AEG.
Q. And then if we could -- could we look at that, please. You told Mr. Roth "I think I know what MJ
Died of, and this would exonerate Conrad," correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And what was it that you knew would exonerate Conrad?
A. I received either an email and/or a phone call from brenda richie, Lionel Richie's ex-wife, who was --
and I know this is going to sound very weird. Okay?
Q. I'm just -- I just want to know what is it that killed Michael Jackson, according to you, when this was
read -- sent?
A. According to Brenda, she said it was a combination of other drugs and the Propofol that we found
out he was getting.
Q. Okay. So you knew this on August 18th, right?
A. I thought -- I mean, I didn't know it for a Fact, it was told to me by somebody.
Q. Well, did you have any reason to doubt that?
A. Yeah, kind of.
Q. Okay. Well, let's see what you said in your deposition about it.
A. Uh-huh.
Q. That's page 233, line 3, to 235, line 17. Did you call the Los Angeles Police Department with this
information that you had?
A. No.
Q. Did you notify the detectives of this information you had?
A. I wasn't sure it was reliable, so no.
Q. Well, did you want Conrad Murray to be exonerated?
A. I -- I would always want an innocent man to not get convicted of a crime, of course.
Mr. Panish: Okay. Well, let's see what you said.
Q. Did you write this email at the top, the first entry, August 18?
A. Well, it says I did.
Q. Do you have any reason to doubt that?
A. I don't remember it. That's the only reason.
Q. Who is Michael Roth?

A. Michael Roth is the head of publicity, VP of public publicity for AEG.
Q. So Murray did some kind of an interview. Is that the way you read this?
Mr. Putnam: Have you had a chance to read this yet?
Phillips: No.
Mr. Putnam: Why don't you read this before you start answering questions.
Q. Take your time. Can you read me out loud what you wrote to Michael Roth on August 18th,
2009, at 7:24?
A. "I wonder why now. I think I know what MJ died of, and this would exonerate Conrad."
Q. Conrad Murray?
A. Correct.
Q. What did you know would exonerate Conrad Murray?
Q. No recollection at all?
A. No.
Q. Was anybody -- did anybody ever ask you what you knew that would exonerate Conrad
Murray?
A. No.
Q. Did you ever tell the police that you had information that would exonerate Conrad Murray?
A. No.
Q. Did you ever tell the la district attorney what information you had that would exonerate
Conrad Murray?
A. No.
Q. Did you ever tell his attorney what information Murray's attorney what information you had
That would exonerate Conrad Murray?

A. No.
Q. Now, sir, you wanted to see -- you didn't want to see an innocent man get convicted, right?
A. Correct.
Q. Yet you told none of those people that we just heard about this, right?
A. No. I mentioned Arnold Klein to them.
Q. Sir, you read that testimony that you didn't recall what it was, and then you signed it again under
penalty of perjury, didn't you, sir?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And you didn't change it then, did you, sir?
A. No.
Q. And the first time you changed it is here on the witness stand today, correct?
A. Correct, in preparation for this testimony, yes.
Q. Well, did you write anyone? Did you write us and say, "I'm changing my testimony"?
A. No. It was in the police report that -- that you showed me.
Q. No, no, sir. When you did your deposition --
A. You didn't show me the police report when I did my deposition.
Q. Sir, in the deposition, you were asked, were you not, what this information was?
A. And I didn't -- and I didn't remember if I had mentioned it to the police.
Q. Well, no. You were saying you didn't even remember what the information was.
A. No, I didn't, at the time.
Q. And then when you read it and studied it and signed it under penalty of perjury, you didn't
remember it then, either, did you, sir?
A. I didn't remember it. I --
Q. Three months ago, you didn't remember it?

A. No.
Mr. Panish: All right. Is this a good time, your honor? 4:00 o'clock.
Judge: It is. 9:30 tomorrow. I'll see you tomorrow.
(court adjourned for the day)

JACKSON V AEGLive June 10th Brandon &quot;Randy&quot; Phillips-CEO OF AEGLIVE

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JACKSON V AEG Live June 10th

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Jackson just five days before he died, is that correct?

Q. How about Mr. Leiweke, your good friend?

Mr. Panish: What was the Objection?

A. No. I didn't speak to him during this exchange.

Q. Is that correct, sir?

Q. That's your home number?

A. Usually, I write it on the back of my card.

Judge: Okay. Why don't you reask the question.

A. (reading document) Yes.

A. At 9:00 in the morning when I received this, no.

Q. Is that the last paragraph?

Q. Right. That was -- did you make that up?

Mr. Panish: Move to strike. Speculation. No foundation.

Murray. I didn't know what the issue was.

A. At the time I thought it was.

A. At this time, obviously, it wasn't true.

Ms. Stebbins: Objection. Argumentative.

Q. So Michael Jackson, was he a doctor, sir?

A. No. Celine Dion is a pretty big star, but, no.

qualified to deal with that.

Q. Was Kenny Ortega there?

Michael Jackson; correct?

A. Would you show me that email, please?

A. To the best of my recollection, yes.

condition, didn't he?

A. Therapist, spiritual advisor, yes.

Q. Well let's play what you said in your deposition, sir.

A. I think it was part of this chain of emails, yes.

Judge: It's a little vague.

A. Yeah. He was like the preproduction accountant, yes.

Judge: Okay. 1:30.

Q. I'm sorry. Just --

Q. I'm sorry. I'm just having a hard time hearing you.

Q. So the answer is no?

Q. And they never gave you a straightjacket, did they?

A. On June 20th, yes.

Q. That wasn't correct, though, was it?

Ms. Stebbins: Objection, misstates testimony.

have our chance to put our side.

Judge: Let's continue.

Q. And kazoodi -- do you know what kazoodi is?

$30 million plus in advance production costs?

Mr. Panish: To your knowledge.

A. I'm not saying

Ms. Stebbins: Objection, asked and answered.

Q. Why didn't you use the ao -- AEG email address?

Ms. Stebbins: Objection, argumentative.

A. I -- no one ever showed me a medical bill from any of them, no.

A. He actually showed me the invoice when we were at Staples Center.

Q. You have no estimate?

A. No, he doesn't work for

times before this, correct?

A. It says June 25th, 2009.

Ms. Stebbins: I already got it wrong once --

Judge: Sustained. You're starting to lose me, too.

Mr. Panish: Okay.

Q. Who is Michael Roth?

That would exonerate Conrad Murray?

Q. Three months ago, you didn't remember it?

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