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STATEMENT #2 OF
OFFICER
COMPLAINT NUMBER: C0-12-08
INTERVIEWER: Commander Cline
LOCATION: Renton Police Department
DATE: August 8, 2012
0903
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My name is Commander Paul Cline ofthe Renton Police Department, the
Office of Professional Standards. I will be interviewing Officer-
date is August 8, 2012 and we are in the Office of
Professional Standards at the Renton Police Department where the
interview will take place. - .. to beginning I do need to read you
the uh Accused Officer Admonition again.
Okay.
Today's date is August 8, 2012 ( clears his throat) at 0903 hours. I
am Commander Paul Cline interviewing Officer
regarding a complaint of violation of Renton Police Department General
Orders 26.1.1.2b Unbecoming Conduct, 26.1.1.2g Fictitious Illness or
Injury Report and 26.1.1.2.tt Truthfulness, which is alleged to have
occurred on July 13, 2012 at approximately 1600 hours. Officer
do you understand that this conversation is being tape recorded?
Yes.
And do I have your permission to do that?
Yes.
Do you wish to have a Guild representative present during this interview?
Yes.
And with that let the record reflect that Officer Pete Montemayor is
present. And cou, Pete could you please uh acknowledge your presence
by stating your name.
MONTEMAYOR: Peter J. Montemayor.
CLINE: Prior to this interview were you given the opportunity to read the original
complaint ofthis incident?
Yes.
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STATEMENT #2 OF
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Were you given an opportunity to consult with your representative prior
to this interview?
Yes ( clears his throat).
Officer I wish to advise you being questioned as part of an official
investigation of the Renton Police Department. You will be asked
questions specifically directed and narrowly related to the performance
of your official duties for fitness, eh fitness for office. You are reminded
that sections 26.11nsubordination and Truthfulness of the Renton Police
Department General Orders do apply in this matter and that you must
truthfully respond. Any refusal to respond may result in disciplinary
action as outlined in General Orders number 26.1. You are entitled to all
the rights and privileges guaranteed by law and Constitution of the
United States including the right not to be compelled to incriminate
( clears his throat) yourself. I further wish to advise you that if
you refuse to testify, or answer questions relating to this performance of
your official duties or fitness for duty, you will be subject to departmental
charges which could result in your dismissal from the Renton Police
Department. If you do answer neither your statements nor any
information or evidence which is gained by reason of such statement can
be used against you in any subsequent criminal proceeding. However,
these statements may be used against you in relation to subsequent
departmental charges. Do you understand those?
Yes.
Okay. I'm gonna go ahead and sign this and ask that you sign them, Pete
if you'd also sign it as a witness?
MONTEMAYOR: Okay. ( clears his throat)
CLINE:
CLINE:
Okay- we had a prior interview on this incident and as I explained to
you when you came in, this is basically a follow up. This is uh regarding
information that I've received from other people that I need to clarify
with you know, okay?
Okay.
Can you please state your name and employment for the record?
, Renton Police 1
(MD/H:PDADMIN:MELISSA:Complaints/C0-12-08 2
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STATEMENT #2 OF
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And do you still recall the incident that we're here to discuss that
occurred on July 13, 2012?
Yes.
Uh following your reported injury at Defensive Tactics training, do you
recall having a phone conversation with Commander about
your injury?
I'm sorry, following?
Following your uh injury that you got at Defensive Tactics training did
Commander try and get a hold of you? I think you guys played
phone tag a little bit.
1 interjects) Yes.
And did you ev, finally have a phone conversation with him?
Yes.
Okay. And do you recall, did that phone call occur on or about July 19th at
about 12:30?
I don't recall the day exactly but probably around there, yes.
Okay. Uh do you recall what the phone call was about and can you tell
me what it was and what was said?
!, I don't remember the whole thing. I mean I thought he was just
checking up on me to see how I was doing.
Okay. Do you remember uh Commander asking you what
happened to your hand?
Specifically uh no. I mean I'm sure he checked and asked. I don't
remember him specifically asking but (Cline interjects with "Okay") I'm
sure he did.
Do you know what, if anything, you told him had happened?
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STATEMENT #2 OF
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I told him that I hurt it at training I'm sure. I, I, I, I don't remember
exactly the conversation on the phone but I'm pretty sure I told him that I
hurt it at training.
Do you remember telling him that your hand was injured in a training
accident in Defensive Tactics, would that be about right?
Yes.
Okay. Did you tell Commander thatyour thumb got trapped in
the gun belt of Officer- during the Defensive Tactics training
scenario and that had, that had caused the injury to your wrist and your
thumb?
No, I don't remember saying to the wrist but to the thumb, yeah.
Okay. So the thumb not the wrist.
I don't recall saying anything about the wrist.
Was your, was your wrist reinjured during that though?
Not that, not to my recollection, no I mean I, I had a, a condition twelve
years ago that ( clears his throat) I had surgery for but it didn't
reinjure the, the wrist.
CLINE: Okay.
CLINE:
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So.
And you did tell Commander that you'd had surgery on your
right wrist in the year 2000?
Yes.
Okay. Now I, I think I just asked this but just for clarification, did you ever
tell Commander that you reinjured your wrist in the
training accident but that the injury to your thumb was a new injury?
Mmm I don't recall ever),{saying anything about reinjuring the wrist.
'Yu
Okay but that the thumb was a new injury?
(MD/H:PDADMIN:MELISSA:Complaints/C0-12-08:
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STATEMENT #2 OF
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The thumb yes.
Okay. Did Commander ask you if your thumb was fine before
the training?
I don't recall him asking that.
Okay. Would it surprise you if I was to say that he said he c\id ask you
that?
Yeah.
Okay, would it surprise you if I told you that he said that you had told him
that your thumb was fine prior to the training?
That would surprise me, yes.
Okay you don't recall that?
Yeah, I don't recall that.
Okay. So basically what you're saying is {Cline clears his throat) in
relation to these, the last couple questions I just asked you that
Commander completed a memorandum after he talked to you
on the phone in which he said that he had spoken to you and that you
had told him that the injury to your thumb was a new injury and that you
had somewhat reinjured your wrist a little bit. Do you, you don't recall
that at all?
I don't recall anything about the wrist and as far as whether it was a new
injury to the thumb I don't recall him asking me if there was anything
before.
CLINE: Okay.
CLINE:
I, I, I don't remember.
Okay. So you, you don't remember ever telling him that the thumb was a
new injury?
I, yeah I don't remember the exact words of the conversation.
remember telling him about injuring it at the uh DT but I don't remember
anything about new or anything preexisting.
(MD/H:PDADMIN:MELISSA:Complaints/C0-12-08
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STATEMENT #2 OF
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Did you, did you mention to him that you had hurt your thumb prior to
that in camping?
I can't say for sure. I, I don't remember. I don't know either way if I did
or if I didn't.
Okay. Did you ever tell any supervisor, Officer In Charge, or even your
doctor that you had injured your thumb prior to Defe, Defensive Tactics
training?
Told Defensive, I told Defensive Tactics instructors (Cline interjects with
"Okay") before the training.
And yeah, we talked about that in the prior interview. But did you ever a
supervisor, or an OIC or even your doctor that you had injured your hand
prior to the Defensive Tactics training while you were camping?
Or my doctor, or the doctor that saw me? I don't remember telling an
OIC.
CLINE: Okay.
CLINE:
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I don't think I told an OIC.
Sergeant?
No, I don't think so.
Okay. Did you ever uh report on (inaudible) any ofthe L&l forms or the
City of Renton uh Incident Report or the Renton Police Department Injury
Report, did you make any mention that your thumb had been injured ...
interjects) I don't believe so .
... while camping prior. ..
interjects) I don't ...
... to this incident?
I don't believe so, no.
(MD/H:PDADMIN:MELISSA:Complaints/C0-12-08 6
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STATEMENT #2 OF
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Did you, did you mention to him t'
that in camping?
I can't say for sure. I, I dor>'
or if I didn't.
Okay. Did you ever tell any suP'-
doctor that you had injured your th ...
training?
Told Defensive, I told Defensive Tactics
"Okay") before the training.
, with
And yeah, we talked about that in the prior interview. But Jid you ever a
supervisor, or an OIC or even your doctor that you had injured your hand
prior to the Defensive Tactics training while you were camping?
Or my doctor, or the doctor that saw me? I don't remember telling an
OIC.
CLINE: Okay.
CLINE:
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I don't think I told an OIC.
Sergeant?
No, I don't think so.
Okay. Did you ever uh report on (inaudible) any of the L&l forms or the
City of Renton uh Incident Report or the Renton Police Department Injury
Report, did you make any mention that your thumb had been injured ...
interjects) I don't believe so .
... while camping prior ...
: interjects) I don't ...
... to this incident?
I don't believe so, no.
(MD/H:PDADMIN:MELISSA:Complaints/C0-12-08:
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STATEMENT #2 OF
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Okay. You don't believe you did? Do you believe that should have been
included in those forms?
In hindsight, yes.
Do you think it was wrong not to mention that to the supervisor who was
filling out the form that your hand was injured prior to the Defensive
Tactics training?
I want to be careful how I answer that. l.Jm, obviously I probably should
have. I, I didn't leave it out intentionally. So to say if it was wrong not to
tell them um ... well if the intent was to not tell them then it would've
been wrong, yes. But the intent was not to withhold the information, so
um, mistake yes.
But again, do you think it would have been important to tell them that so
that they would have that information?
In hindsight, yes.
Alright. Can you think of any reason why if, if you did not say the injury
to your thumb was a new injury uh that Commander would say
that you told him that it was a new injury and that you were fine prior to
Defensive Tactics training?
Can you say that again?
Can you think of aoyreason why Commander would say that
after the con, phone conversation he had with you, can you think of any
reason why he would say that you told him that your thumb was a new
injury and that it had been fine before the training?
No I can't see why, I can't see why he would put that down if I didn't tell
him that it was new and that my thumb was fine, no I can't think of a
reason.
Okay and are you saying you did not tell him that?
I'm not saying that. I'm saying that I don't remember what I said.
CLINE: Okay.
(MD/H:PDADMIN:MELISSA:Complaints/C0-12-08 7
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STATE

Okay. You don't believe
included in those forms?
In hindsight, yes.
Do you think it was wror
filling out the form
Tactics training?
I want to be careful how
een
1was
IUid
have. I, I didn't leave it out intentionally. So to say if it was wrong not to
tell them um ... well if the intent was to not tell them then it would've
been wrong, yes. But the intent was not to withhold the information, so
urn, mistake yes.
But again, do you think it would have been important to tell them that so
that they would have that information?
In hindsight, yes.
Alright. Can you think of any reason why if, if you did not say the injury
to your thumb was a new injury uh that Commander would say
that you told him that it was a new injury and that you were fine prior to
Defensive Tactics training?
Can you say that again?
Can you think of any reason why Cc
after the con, phone conversation I
reason why he would say that you 1
injury and that it had been fine bef1
No I can't see why, I can't see why I
him that it new and that myth
reason.
Okay and are you saying you did no e
I'm not saying that. I'm saying that I don't remember what I said.
CLINE: Okay.
(MD/H:PDADMIN:MELISSA:Complaints/C0-12-08
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STATEMENT #2 OF
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But I can't think of another reason why he would say that (Cline interjects
with "Okay") unless that's what was said.
Okay. I think that's probably alii have to ask you right now,- Is
there anything else you'd like to tell me about this incident, regarding
what we've just talked about here?
Mmm can I have a minute to confer with my uh {Cline interjects with
"Sure") representative before ...
{Cline interjects) We can, we can go off the tape if you'd, it is uh 9:14
hours and we're going.to be pausing the recording. Okay we're gonna be
back on recording and the time in 9:23. Uh- left uh I'd asked
if there was anything else you'd like to tell me about this and you'd had
an opportunity to speak with your Guild representative now is that
correct?
Correct.
Okay, go ahead.
I have nothing further to add.
Okay. I did have uh one or two quick other questions. Urn, I was gonna
tell you that Commander did actually write the memorandum
that we were talking about and that he did say that you told him um that
your thumb was a new injury and that your thumb was fine prior to that.
Urn and I just want to clarify that you said you don't recall ever saying.
that?
I don't recall a majority of the conversation. I don't recall saying tliat and
I don't recall anything about the wrist coming up {Cline interjects with
11
0kay'') aside from the fact that the wrist was a preexisting condition
that there's a loss of range of motion that also causes loss of range of
motion in the thumb.
CLINE: Okay.
That's ...
CLINE:
. t . - ~ t: tA5
(Cline interjects) You, you don't recall that, that .CQ.I:I.\LGfS, those things
that I just said though being said?
(MD/H:PDADMIN:MELISSA:Complaints/C0-12-08
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But I can't think of another reason why he would say that (Cline interjects
with "Okay") unless that's what was said.
Okay. I think that':
there anything elsE
what we've just tal
Mmm can I have a
"Sure") representa
(Cline interjects) VI
hours and we're g(
back on recording I
if there was anythi
an opportunity to
correct?
Correct.
Okay, go ah
I have nothi
Okay. I
tell you thai \(\9
that we wer
your thumb
Um and ljw
that?
tv:- s 'f V'Y\.
(A__ C(()
(\ l L UY 0\.\.z__
'-
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ris. Is
sarding
:s with
h 9:14
gonna be
h I'd asked
ou'd had
that
Jm, I was gonna
e memorandum
told him um that
fine prior to that.
311 ever saying
I don't recall a majority of the conversation. I don't recall saying tliat and
I don't recall anything about the wrist coming up (Cline interjects with
"Okay") aside from the fact that the wrist was a preexisting condition
that there's a loss of range of motion that also causes loss of range of
motion in the thumb.
CLINE: Okay.
That's ...
CLINE:

(Cline interjects) You, you don't recall that,that those things
that I just said though being said?
{MD/H:PDADMIN:MELISSA:Complaints/C0-12-08
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I don't.
Okay. Do you think they possibly could have been said or that you don't
recall them or were they, do you think they just weren't said?
I mean if he wrote 'em, I mean I don't think the Commander's gonna lie.
But I don't remember them being said.
Okay. One last question um if someone is claiming an injury that
occurred on duty and they had just very recently had a prior injury to the
same place do you think that it would be paramount that they notify the
supervisor of the prior injury and when they filled out the L&l forms and
the City forms that they had made mention of that?
Generically speaking, yes.
What do you mean generically speaking?
You're, you're speaking in generalities if somebody has a prior injury and
then they go to training and they injure that same member uh then yes it,
1,1, I, I understand where you're going with this, yes. But with this
particular case the, the nature of the injury I sustained prior to training
was uh I was able to utilize my thumb in, in a work capacity. It didn't hold
me up from work. Urn, when I got injured at training I could no longer
function in my duties. I couldn't manipulate my holster. So the injury
from training, I don't want to say it was different injury because obviously
it happened to the same area, but was a worse injury if you will because
it kept me from work. And I understand that the questioning as far as
should it have been divulged, .1 should have yeah. In hindsight, yes I
should have.
Okay. I think that's all the questions I have. Um that will conclude the
interview and the time is now 9:26a.m.
(MD/H:PDADMIN:MELISSA:Complaints/CO-iZ-08
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C0-12-08
Interview Questions #2
Interviewer: Commander Paul Cline
Officer: Officer
Date: August 8, 2012 Time: ______ _
Location: Renton PD OPS
Interview is being recorded. Please give clear, verbal answers.
Read, "Accused Officer Admonition".
Please state your name and employment.
Do you still recall the incident we are here to discuss that occurred on July 13, 2012?
Following your reported injury at defensive tactics training do you recall having a phone
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conversation with Commander about your injury?
Did that phone call occur on July 19th at approximately 1230 hours?
Do you recall what the phone call was about and can you tell me what was said?
Do you remember
What did you tell him?
asking you what happened to your hand?
Did you tell him that your hand was injured in a "training accident" at DT?
Did you tell that your thumb got trapped in the gun belt of Officer- during
the defensive tactics training scenarios and that that had caused injury to your wrist and
'\_ thumb?
\ \; 10. Did you tell that you had surgery on your right wrist in 2000?
'v 11. Did you tell him that you re-in jured your wrist in the training accident but that the injury to
\ your thumb was a new injury?
\,. \t 12. Did Commander ask you if your thumb was fine before the training?
. V 13. Did you answer "yes" to that question?
~ 14. Why would you tell commander that the injury to your thumb was a new injury
when in fact you had injured it camping a day or so earlier?
V 15. Didn't you tell--and that you had injured your thumb prior to
""-. defensive tactics training?
\1 16. Then why would you tell Commander that the injury to your thumb was new when .
he asked you if the injury sustained in the training hurt your wrist in addition to your
' thumb? Refer to memorandum from
Y 17. Did you tell any supervisor, OIC or even your doctor that you had injured your thumb prior
to the defensive tactics training?
'.
18. Is it reported by you in any of the police department, city or L&l forms that you injured your
thumb prior to the training when you fell while camping?
19. Should that have been included in the forms?
20. If not, why not?
21. Do you think that was wrong? Do you think that was something you should have done?
22. If you did not say the injury to your thumb was a new injury then why do you think
Commander:::: would say you did say those things?
23. Commander was very certain of what he asked you and your answers to those
questions, why do you think he would be wrong?
24. Is there anything else you would like to tell me about this incident and your involvement
prior to my ending this interview?
If answer is that the wrist was a prior injury and was re-in jured but thought
meant was the thumb part of the wrist injury then why did you say that your thumb was fine
before the training when it was injured and swollen?
Date and time interview was concluded.
RENTON POLICE DEPARTMENT
INTERNAL AFFAIRS
WITNESS OFFICER ADMONITION
C0-12-08
COMPLAINT NUMBER
Today's date is August 1, 2012 at 1310 hours. I am Commander Paul Cline
interviewing Commander
GO 26.1.1.11.B Unbecoming Conduct
GO 26.1.1.11. G Fictitious illness or Injury Reports
GO 26.1.1.1l.TT Truthfulness
which is alleged to have occurred on July 13, 2012 at approximately 1600 hours.
Commander- do you understand that this conversation is being tape recorded?
(Answer)
Commander- you are here as a witness in the above listed complaint, a matter
which concerns another officer. A complaint has not been filed against you, and you are
not under investigation in this matter.
Commander- I wish to advise you that you are being questioned as a part of
an official investigation of the Renton Police Department.
You are reminded that section 26.1 "Insubordination" and "Truthfulness" of the Renton
Police Department General Orders do apply in this matter and that you must truthfully
respond. Any refusal to respond may result in disciplinary a 1 n as outlined in general
Order No. 26.1
EMPLOYEE ASSIGNED INVESTIGATOR
--------------------
POLICE DEPARTMENT
M E M 0 R A N D U M
DATE: July 23, 2012
TO: Commander P. Cline
FROM:
SUBJECT: Defensive Tactics Injury Report
Commander Cline,
The purpose of this memorandum is to inform you of my involvement and
understanding of an incident involving a Police Department member claiming they were
injured while attending Department training. This Department member allegedly made
the statement they were going to claim the injury happened at training that had not yet
taken place.
On Saturday, July 14th at 0949 me an e-mail (attached) stating
Officer C. had injured his thumb the day before {Friday July 13th) at defensive
tactics (DT) training. She stated he had come to work that morning and was unable to
draw his weapon so he left to "seek medical treatment". She then advised she had filled
out the required paperwork and left it on Melissa Day's desk.
That same day at 1635 Officer ent another e-mail (attached) stating Officer
had texted her stating his thumb had been strained and was advised to see a
doctor later in the week.
On Tuesday July 17th at approximately 1500 I called and left a message for Officer
asking about his status and probable return to work date on his cell phone.
On Wednesday, July 18th at 1006 I sent an e-mail (attached) to Officer sking if
she could get a hold of Officer and find out a possible prognosis and how he
was doing.
At approximately 1330 that same day, Commander Wilcox invited me into his office to
listen to a phone message. The message was from Sergeant Sergeant
-.stated she had lunch with Officer and had told her Officer
was injured while attending DT last week. Officer then told her that she spoke
with Officer just before the DT training and that Officer told her that he
was going to claim an injury to his thumb happened at the training. Sergeant
stated she thought Officer actions were untruthful and unprofessional.
At 1753 Officer-had responded to my earlier e-mail request (attached) stating
Officer was still out injured and was not going to be able to see his doctor until
July 23rd.
At 1823 I received a voice mail on my desk phone from Officer
for the late call as one of his children had turned down his phone. He did not comment
on the injury but stated I could reach him on his cell or home phone.
. On July 19th at 1230 f returned Officer . phone call. I asked him what had
happened to his hand: I:Jesaid ''it wasa training accident" des"cribed weapon
retention in DTand having his thumb in the gun belt of . Officer
-had spun and twisted his thumb causing to his thumb and wrist Officer
. then stated he had surgery on his wrist before this happened. I asked when his
last surge.ry was and hereplied "2000". I asked him if the injury hurt his wrist in addition
to his th"umb. He said the incic:Jent qid re.-inju.ry wrist but was a new injury.
I asked him if his thumb was fine before training and he said "yes". .
At 1235 I reported my conversation to Chief Milosevich and Commander Cline. At this
time I have not heard any updates regarding the incident.
Commander- Date
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STATEMENT OF
COMMANDER
COMPLAINT NUMBER: C0-12-08
INTERVIEWER: Commander Cline
LOCATION: Renton Police Department
DATE: August 1, 2012
1310
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Alright today's date is Aug, is August 1, 2012 at 1310 hours. Uh I am
Commander Paul Cline interviewing Commander regarding a
complaint of General Orders 26.1.1.2b Unbecoming Conduct, General
Orders 26.1.1.2g Fictitious Illness or Injury Reports and GO 26.1.1.2tt
Truthfulness, which is alleged to have occurred on August, I'm sorry on
July 13, 2012 at approximately 1600 hours. Commander do you
understand that this conversation is being tape recorded?
Yes, Sir.
And do I have your permission to tape?
Yes, Sir.
Commander you are here as a witness in the above listed
complaint, a matter which concerns another officer. A complaint has not
been filed against you and you are not under investigation in this matter.
Commander I wish to advise you that you are being questioned
as part of an official investigation of the Renton Police Department. You
are reminded that section 26.11nsubordination and Truthfulness of the
Renton Police Department General Orders do apply in this matter and
that you must truthfully respond. Any refusal to respond may result in
disciplinary action as outlined in General Order 26.1. Do you understand
that?
Yes, Sir.
It's basically the Witness Officer Admonition. And the incident that we're
here to discuss is a uh reported on duty to Officer-
uh which is, was alleged to have occurred on July 13,
2012. Are you familiar with that incident?
Yes, Sir.
Can you tell me how you first became aware of the injury and what had
happened and who, who contacted you?
Yes, Sir. Initially uh I was advised via an email from the Officer In Charge
uh .. - on Saturday the 14th. She had sent me an email
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STATEMENT OF
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indicating she'd filled out some paperwork for Officer who had
injured his thumb during DT the day prior, the 13th_
Now when you say DT do you mean Defensive Tactics Training?
Yes, Sir Defensive Tactics. So she had sent me the email on that Saturday
for the injury occurring that Friday. Um, and that was how I became
aware of the, the injury.
What did you do after you became aware of the injury?
Um when I came into work I just noticed the paperwork she had on my
desk. I went to uh Melissa Day to make sure everything was in order as
far as the uh medical packet being turned in and um all the paperwork
being taken care of.
Now when you looked at that paper was there any indication on any of
the paperwork that the injury was uh occurred off duty and not on duty?
No.
Do you recall what the uh paperwork indicated was the cause ofthe
injury?
I just, I don't remember the exact wording on the paperwork other than
reviewing it, seeing that it was on Melissa's desk and that she had it
there.
Okay. Uh and it was indicated as being an on duty injury,
interjects with "Yes") is that correct?
Yes (Cline clears his throatL yes it is.
Did you have any further contact with anybody about this?
Uh not at that time.
Was there anything elsethat brought your attention to this incident and
cau, caused you to inquire further?
Yes, uh I had received uh another email um I think it was uh from
that sai, she had told him to go see a doctor that same day but when 1
came back to work I hadn't heard anything Monday which would have
(MD/H:PDADMIN:MELISSA:Complaints/CO-lZ-08
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STATEMENT OF
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been the 16th so uh on Tuesday I had called Officer to see if he
had everything, if he was taken care of uh cuz the last mess I, message I
got from- that day was that he was seeing a doctor and I had not
heard anything back. So I checked and left a message saying I was
wondering how he was doing, if he was going to have a probable return
to work date and check on his status. So, um I didn't get any response
that day. Uh, !left the message that afternoon. Uh when I came in the
next day I sent an email t hoping that I had a message from
~ o t , so I sent an email that morning on
Wednesday the 18
1
h to asking if she can get a hold of uh Officer
me know how his thumb was doing and what he was
doing. But uh later that day, same day on July 18th, uh Commander
Wilcox had told me that he had a message he wanted me to listen to. So
I went to his office and it was a message left from Sergeant
indicating one of her employees had spoken with -the
injury and he had indicated that he was going to claim the injury occurred
during D, Defensive Tactics training. Um, it said in the message, I don't
remember exactly what it said other than she had commented on his
thumb and he knew or she knew that there's something wrong with it
and he made the comment that he was going to claim that it was injured
at Defensive Tactics training uh that was later, that was gonna happen
later that day.
Now when you say he you're talking about Officer the
officer, Officer
Yes, Sir.
Okay and so -then made notification and it went up to
Commander Wilcox indicating that he had made a comment to
lith at sh, that Officer was gonna report this injury
to his thumb as occurring during DTtraining, which was scheduled after
he spoke to her?
Correct.
Okay. Uh did that create a uh, any suspicion or question in your mind
about the validity ofthis incident?
Absolutely. Um, that came out as maybe he was being untruthful in
indicating he had an injury before and was gonna claim it so that he could
take time off was the immediate thought.
(MD/H:PDADMIN:MELISSA:Complaints/C0-12-08 3
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STATEMENT OF
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Now did you have any phone conversation with Officer uh
following this inci, this uh contact with Commander Wilcox?
I did. Shortly after becoming aware of the uh the allegation uh the
information that Commander Wilcox provided to me, I finally got an
email from Officer aying that uh Officer was still out
injured and he was not going to be able to see his doctor until later in the
week. And just after that, maybe a half hour, I stepped out of my office
there was a message where Officer left a message saying that uh
he, he apologized he didn't get the phone call, one of his children had
turned down the phone so he was unable to uh be reached. He, but he
didn't mention anything about the injury us as far as when he would be
back or anything like that.
CLINE: Did you ever have actual contact on the phone or in person with Officer
regarding this?
- Yes, Sir. The next day when I came into work um at about noon, 12:30 I
uh returned his phone call and asked him what had happened to his
hand. He had indicated that it was a training accident.
CLINE:
CLINE:
Did he use those specific words? ( interjects with "He used")
That it was a training accident?
It was a training accident were his specific words. He said that he was at
Defensive Tactics, he got his thumb caught between the holster and the
belt of Officer- twisted, they were doing weapon retention and he
had injured his thumb and wrist. And so I had asked about his wrist,
about his wrist being injured, and he said yeah he's had a lot of surgeries
on the wrist and I said what, when was the last one? He said 2000. And
then I asked him ifthe thumb was new. He ...
(Cline interjects) Now wa, was he indicating the year 2000 and that was
the final uh surgery that he'd had so that'd be twelve years ago?
Correct.
CLINE: Okay.
- So he said that the, he had re-aggravated his wrist and that it, and that it
injured his thumb. And I asked him if his thumb was new, he said yes. I
said ...
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STATEMENT OF-
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CLINE: (Cline interjects) Now when you say if his thumb was new you mean if the
injury to his thumb was new?
- interjects) If the injury to his thumb was new, yes.
CLINE: Okay.
- And I said you didn't have that before training, he said no.
CLINE: So you specifically asked him if the thumb injury was a new injury ...
CLINE:
CLINE:
interjects) Yes .
... that he incurred in Defensive Tactics and he told you that yes it was a
new injury and that he had received it in Defensive Tactics?
Correct.
No doubt in your mind about that?
No doubt in my mind.
CLINE: Okay.
But he also had added that it'd reinjured his wrist.
CLINE: Okay. Was there anything else that uh you discussed with him?
- No. That, that, that was it. I asked, after that I wanted to make sure that
his paperwork, I told him to stay close with HR to make sure his
paperwork was taken care of and Melissa so that and you know when he
comes back to work he's, he's needs to have uh a release either to light
duty or to full duty or, or whatever.
CLINE: Now after that conversation with him did you complete a memorandum
uh regarding your conversation with him?
- I did. I completed the memorandum and submitted it.
CLINE: And I have the memorandum sitting here. Is this the memorandum that
you com, completed and, and uh actually later on gave to me?
Yes.
(MD/H:PDADMIN:MELISSA:Complaints/C0-12-08:
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And is, is this memorandum a correct and accurate recollection of the
conversation that you had with Officer
Yes.
Alright. Were you ever able to view the paperwork uh completed
regarding the injury to Officer uh specifically the Supervisor's
Report of Injury and the City of Renton Incident Report form, and I
believe there was also a Labor and Industries uh SIF form?
Yeah that, the, and I don't know the proper terminology, there's a packet
that supervisors use which has the L&l form (Cline interjects with
11
Mmm
hmm") and all of that which was turned into Melissa, and Officer-
did that. I had a copy of the Supervisor's Incident Report that
completed, saying that he injured his thumb at Defensive Tactics.
Was there any mention in that report that he had injured his hand just
prior to that, or his thumb, just prior to that uh away fr, in an off duty
capacity or at a camping trip or anything like that?
No, Sir.
Were you ever told, by him or anyone else, that he had just injured his
hand prior to the day before uh DT uh and had injured his thumb?
No, Sir.
So the only information you had, and the only information that he
indicated in the City's report forms was that he injured his thumb during
Tactics training on July 13th?
Correct.
Did you ever have a chance to see the uh Labor and Industries uh injury
report form that's filled out by uh, uh medical personnel?
I did not. I know that Melissa had it. I'd, I'd seen it but not close enough
to review it or see exactly what was on it.
Okay. The form that you did see (
uh was that signed by Officer
interjects with
11
Mmm hmm")
and by Officer
(MD/H:PDADMIN:MELISSA:Complaints/C0-12-08
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The Supervisor's Incident Form was signed by Officer-and I can't
tell you for sure if it was signed by him. I know there's a signature block
that I would have (loud background noise, possibly chair sliding back)
remembered if he hadn't.
Okay let me, le, pause just for a second here ( interjects with
"Okay") and I'm gonna get a copy of that.
Okay. !, if, if it hadn't been signed I, I based on my, my hist-ory I would've
held on to it and made sure it was signed before it was submitted up.
Okay, if I was to show you this Supervisor's Report of Employee Injury it is
(-interjects with "Yes") filled out by Officer-and the off,
injured officer is Officer- Uh, if I were to show you that and
have you look at the bottom ( interjects with "Yep") do you
recognize the signatures at the bottom of that page?
Yes.
And is Officerlone of those signatures?
It is.
Alright.
And that is the exact same form because it's done on a, we have newer
forms. This was done on an old form which caught my attention, so.
Okay. And in that form uh_l believe it says the accident was during
training, no carelessness or questionable behavior. was properly
attired with equipment and in good working order. Uh training occurred
in safe conditions uh indicating as I said at the beginning that the
accident occurred during training, is that correct?
Yes.
Alright. Is there anything else about this uh incident that you can recall?
Have you had any conversation with uh other people regarding it, uh
regarding his injury or the fact that he never reported to a supervisor or
you or medical personnel uh that his thumb had been injured just prior to
this in a camping accident?
No.
(MD/H:PDADMIN:MELISSA:Complaints/C0-12-08.
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And to your knowledge since then has he made any mention of that to
you?
I have, no he has not.
Alright. That's gonna conclude this interview. Uh the time is 1:18 p.m.
(MD/H:PDADMIN:MELISSA:Complaints/C0-12-08:.
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RENTON POLICE DEPARTMENT
INTERNAL AFFAIRS
WITNESS OFFICER ADMONITION
C0-12-08
COMPLAINT NUMBER
Today's date is August 2, 2012 at I 0 0 0 hours. I am
Commander Paul Cline interviewing Officer ... regarding a complaint of
GO 26.1.1.1l.B Unbecoming Conduct
GO 26.1.1.1l.G Fictitious Illness or Injury Reports
GO 26 .1.1.11. TT Truthfulness
which is alleged to have occurred on July 13, 2012 at approximately 1600 hours.
Officer- do you understand that this conversation is being tape recorded? (Answer) 1.LO
Officer- you are here as a witness in the above listed complaint, a matter which
concerns another officer. A complaint has not been filed against you, and you are not
under investigation in this matter.
Officer- I wish to advise you that you are being questioned as a part of an official
investigation of the Renton Police Department.
You are reminded that section 26.1 "Insubordination" and "Truthfulness" of the Renton
Police Department General Orders do apply in this matter and that you must truthfully
respond. Any refusal to respond may result in disciplinary action as outlined in general
Order No. 26.1
ASSIGNED INVESTIGATOR
I ~
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STATEMENT OF
OFFICER
COMPLAINT NUMBER: C0-12-08
INTERVIEWER: Commander Cline
LOCATION: Renton Police Department
DATE: August 2, 2012
1000
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Okay today's date is August 2, 2012. The time is 1000 hours. I am
Commander Paul Cline interviewing Officer regarding
complaint of General Orders 26.1.1.2b Unbecoming Conduct, 26.1.1.2g
Fictitious Illness or Injury Reports and 26.1.1.2.tt Truthfulness, which is
alleged to have occurred on July 13, 2012 at approximately 1600 hours.
Officer- do you understand this conversation is being tape recorded?
Yes.
And do I have your permission to tape record it?
Yes.
Officer- you are here as a witness in the above listed complaint, a
matter which concerns another officer. A complaint has not been filed
against you and you are not under investigation at this time. Officer-
I wish to advise you that you are being questioned as part of an official
investigation of the Renton Police Department. You are reminded that
section 26.11nsubordination and Truthfulness of the Renton Police
Department General Orders do apply in this matter and that you must
truthfully respond. Any refusal to respond may result in disciplinary
action as outlined in General Orders 26.1. Do you understand that?
Yes.
Okay. This is basically Witness Officer Admonition. And I'm gonna go
ahead and sign it and date it and I'm gonna ask you to do the saine.
Okay.
-I wanna bring your attention to a, an incident that occurred on July
13, 2012 at about uh 4:00 in the afternoon. Uh were you working that
day?
Yes.
And what was your capacity at that time?
I was uh instructing DT.
(MD/H:PDADMIN:MELISSA:Complaints/C0-12-08-- 1
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And when you say DT you're talking about Defensive Tactics training?
Yes.
Uh and I'm gonna ask you at the 1430 class, did Officer-
attend that class?
I, I believe so. I believe (Cline interjects with "And") that was, that was
the time period.
Okay and did uh -also attend that same training?
Yes.
Okay. What was your position at that training?
Uh, l was facilitating basically the lead facilitator, facilitator of the training
that day. And then um I also ran uh hood drills and participated in the,
the uh weapon retention drills.
Okay. Were you giving instruction then to the pea, personnel who were
there?
Yes.
Were you also involved in checking those personnel for any kind of
weapons or injuries or anything like that prior to the training?
Yes.
Did you do that?
Yes.
Uh did you have an uh opportunity at that time to speak with Officer
Urn, l believe- might have given the safety briefing because I was
setting the hood drill up.
Okay ___ _
(MD/H:PDADMIN:MELISSA:Complaints/C0-12-08--
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Yes, sorry. So I believe he gave the safety briefing initially and I set the
hood drill up. So, uh when I came back out from setting the hood drill!
think he was just ending the safety briefing with about injuries and I knew
that um Officer had uh stitches in this triceps.
Okay. Did he mention anything about having an injury to his right
thumb?
Not 'til later on, 'til uh because after the first drill that we did as we were
walking back out to the front he had said that he tweaked his thumb.
And I said "whoa" did you do it during the hood drill and he said no it's
just, it's just hurt.
Okay so he indicated that prior to the training he had tweaked his
thumb?
Right.
Um, did he say that he was alright to be involved in the training and to do
the training?
Yeah, cuz uh my first thing was okay so you're not gonna do drills or the,
the takeaways and he said no !'II still do it and I was like alright fine.
Did he tell you how he had injured his thumb?
No. He just said I, I just kinda dismissed it when he said that he hurt it.
And then later on I found out that him, hurt it over the weekend.
Okay how did you find out later on that he hurt it over the weekend?
Uh, it was after several conversations with, with different people but I
don't know if it was uh, I don't remember who exactly told me but when
this investigation came up then I heard that he had hurt it.
Okay so it was after the investigation came up you'd heard that he hurt it
on the weekend?
Right.
Um did you have any conversation with Officer- that day? Of the
training?
(MD/H:PDADMIN:MELISSA:Complaints/C0-12-08-- 3
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Um, regarding?
Regarding the injury to Officer
No.
Um now during the training um did there come a point and time where
Officer uh stopped and indicated that he had been injured in the
training?
Yes.
And can you tell me about that?
Um several times I had told him not to lay off doing it because I didn't
want him to hurt his, his uh stitches.
Okay and that was for his stitches and not for the thumb?
Right.
Okay.
And um you know the thumb was kind of an afterthought to me so I was
more worried about the stitches. So, told him a couple times just to lay
off. And then uh I had heard him say like ow or something like that, kinda
loud. Well he was, he was saying ow a couple times and uh so I said just,
just lay off. You, you don't have to do it. And then um he ...
(Cline interjects) But, but he continued to do it?
He's, he did it and then uh he let out one kinda louder ow and I went ov,
over and looked at him and he said oh my thumb and I, is, is it the same
thumb? And he said yeah and I said, I looked at it and I could tell he, he
was hurt. I mean his thumb was shaking. So, I mean having had those
kind of injuries before I, it looked hurt to me. So I said well I could tape it
up for you. So I taped it up for him.
Now when you say his thumb looked hurt, did it look swollen at all or?
Um I, I, I didn't think it looked swollen. But I didn't pay attention to it
before. It just looked like he had hurt it cuz it was shaking.
(MD/H:PDADMIN:MELISSA:Complaints/C0-12-08-- 4
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Does it seem kind of unusual that he would want to do the drills even
though his thumb was hurt and he had stitches in his arm?
Stitches, yes. Um for me like I have two hurt fingers right now and I, I
wouldn't have any problems like trying to do the drill so. The thumb
thing I was like mmm. Uh that's, that's, that's fine with me but we have
had people like with shoulder injuries and stuff like that, that we really
don't want them doing the drills. So the tricep stitches was kind a like ah
just you shouldn't do it (Cline interjects with "Okay'') but he was like no
1
1
m fine. And I'm like okay.
Alright. Um did you receive any information from Officer I that he
was going to file an L&l claim for the injury with the City?
You know he might have said it in passing but he just laugh, you know if I
get hurt I'll just claim it, but.
Now you said he said if I get hurt I'll just claim it as rjects with
"Yeah") an injury, and L&l (-interjects with "Something like that")
injury?
He didn't specifically say L&l, he just said I'll just claim it.
Okay.
And I was like, "pft" well.
Yeah, what was your response to that? Why, why would he say that?
I mean, going back and looking at it in hindsight, it's kinda like yeah why
would you, why would you say that? But in DT I guess we hear it kind a
often that if I get hurt in DT I'll just claim it or I'll just you know job injury.
Would it, would it seem to make more sense to you as a Defensive
Tactics instructor that if he had been injured that he would just sit that
out?
Yes.
Um did anyone else there do you know have contact with him about the
injury or uh see it after the injury occurred?
Mmm ...
(MD/H:PDADMIN:MELISSA:Complaints/C0-12-08--
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Any of the other DT instructors?
I don't know if anybody else saw it because they were working with other
people.
Okay. Uh do you know if Officer -:::r-might have seen it or had
any conversation with uh Officer I
Um I don't remember if he did. -was the lead instructor that day and
he was instructing everybody else. So while he was doing that I kinda
taped thumb up on the side.
Okay. Did at any time during this uh Defensive Tactics training-
mention about hurting his hand on a camping trip or that his thumb was,
was uh had been injured on the weekend? Or was it just, he just said it
was a little sore or what?
He said it was hurt. But I can't remember if he said how he hurt it before
the class or did I just hear it later on.
Weill thought you said -interjects with "I") that he, he said his
thumb was fine and he'd be able to do the drills, that he,(- interjects
with "Yeah he said") he had injured it somehow during, (- interjects
with "Yeah, he hurt") during time before the class.
Right, he said it was hurt but.
(Cline interjects) So he did indicate that his thumb had been injured prior
to the class?
Yes, he, oh yeah it was hurt prior to the class.
Okay.
It was, but to the extent of how hurt it was I don't, I don't know.
Okay. And then apparently during the class he claimed then that he had
further injured it?
Right. And it looked like to me that, just, just from what I saw from, from
his hand shaking, I know I've jammed my thumb before, sprained it and
stuff so I know that it's gonna, if it's gonna do that and shake I don't
(MD/H:PDADMIN:MELISSA:Complaints/C0-12-08- -
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STATEMENT OF
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know if you can fake that but, I mean it's possible that he could have just
aggravated it worse at that time. 1...
Okay. Is there anything else, any more information you have about this
incident or? Did you, let me ask you another question though. Would,
was there any mention made to you by anybody prior to, during or after
this occurred about- uh injuring his thumb off duty and then
claiming he was going to uh report it as occurring on duty?
I, I didn't hear anything from anybody who said that they heard -say
that. I've heard people say that he's being investigated because he said,
said, said it to somebody but (Cline interjects with "Okay") nobody's told
me that.
Okay, so you have no personal knowledge of that?
No.
Okay.
And I do know that him and his family went camping that weekend so.
Okay. Alright is there anything else you can think of that occurred during
that uh training that was, would stand out or be different uh?
No, just the tricep thing got me. I mean that was like, personally I
probably should have just said no you're not doing training cuz of the, the
stitches.
So as, as the DT instructor there you think you should have just told him
no, you're not gonna do DT (-interjects with "Right") because you
have an injury on your tricep with, with stitches and stuff?
Yeah.
Okay.
It's, I, I mean I should have said that but I didn't.
Okay. Alright uh that'll conclude this interview. The time is now 1010
a.m.
(MD/H:PDADMIN:MELISSA:Complaints/C0-12-08--
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RENTON POLICE DEPARTMENT
INTERNAL AFFAIRS
WITNESS OFFICER ADMONITION
C0-12-08
COMPLAJNT NUMBER
Today's date is August 2, 2012 at __ t_5_{..!___j('--' ____ hours. I am
Commander Paul Cline interviewing Officer .. - regarding a complaint
of
GO 26.1.1.11.B Unbecoming Conduct
GO 26.1.1.11.G Fictitious Illness or Injury Reports
GO 26.1.1.1l.TT Truthfulness
which is alleged to have occurred on July 13, 2012 at approximately 1600 hours.
Officer-do you understand that this conversation is being tape recorded?
(Answer) '{ J.LJ
Officer-you are here as a witness in the above listed complaint, a matter
which concerns another officer. A complaint has not been filed against you, and you are
not under investigation in this matter.
Officer-I wish to advise you that you are being questioned s a part of an
official investigation of the Renton Police Department.
You are reminded that section 26.1 "Insubordination" and "Truthfulness" of the Renton
Police Department General Orders do apply in this matter and that you must truthfully
respond. Any refusal to respond may result in disciplinary action as outlined in general
Order No. 26.1
STATEMENT OF
OFFICER
COMPLAINT NUMBER: C0-12-08
INTERVIEWER: Commander Cline
LOCATION.: Renton Police Department
DATE: August 2, 2012
1544
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Today's date is August 2, 2012 at 3:44p.m. or 1544 hours. I am
Commander Paul Cline interviewing Officer- regarding a
complaint of General Orders 26.1.1.2b Unbecoming Conduct, 26.1.1.2g
Fictitious Illness or Injury Reports and 26.1.1.2.tt Truthfulness, which is
alleged to have occurred on July 13, 2012 at approximately 1600 hours.
Officer do you understand that this conversation is being
tape recorded?
Yes.
And do I have your permission to do so?
Yes.
Officer you are here as a witness in the above listed matter, a
matter which concerns another officer. A complaint has not been filed
against you and you are not under investigation in this matter. Officer
wish to advise you that you are being questioned as part of
an official investigation of the Renton Police Department. You are
reminded that section 26.11nsubordination and Truthfulness of the
Renton Police Department General Orders do apply in this matter and
that you must truthfully respond. Any refusal to respond may result in
disciplinary action as outlined in General Order number 26.1. Do you
understand that?
Yes.
Basically that is the Witness Officer Admonition form. And this is
reference Renton Police Department Internal Investigation Complaint
number C0-12-08. The interview is being conducted at the Renton Police
Department in the office of Commander Paul Cline. And- I just want
to go ahead and ask you questions that are uh related to this incident
( interjects with ({Sure") and your knowledge uh or actions
involved in, in any of the incident. Can you please state your name and,
and employment just for the record?
- Police Officer with the City of Renton.
And are you awy, aware of why I'm interviewing you today,-
(MD/H:PDADMIN:MELISSA:Comp!aints/CO-lZ-08-
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Yes, Sir.
Do you recall the incident we're here to discuss that occurred on July 13,
2012 at approximately 1600 hours?
Yes.
Were you working on July 13, 2012 and if so, what was your assignment?
I was working and I was the DT instructor that day.
Okay, is that Defensive Tactics instructor?
interjects) Defensive Tactics instructor that day.
Okay. Uh did you instruct the Defensive Tactics training class at 1430
hours on that date?
Yes, Sir.
And did Officer- and Officer attend that same
training you were instructing?
Yes.
Are you aware that Office claimed that he injured his right thumb
during the Defensive Tactics training he attended with you on July 13th?
Yes.
Do you know how Officer injured his right thumb during the
training?
By practicing one of the techniques.
Do you have any personal knowledge of how he injured it?
Uh no. I was instructing somebody else at the time.
Okay. Did Officer or anyone else tell you that Officer 1
had injuries to his thumb prior to training on July 13th?
{MD/H:PDADMIN:MELISSA:Complaints/C0-12-08- 2
------------------------------ ------------------------
CLINE:
CLINE:
CLINE:
CLINE:
CLINE:
CLINE:
CLINE:
STATEMENT OF
OFFICER-
Uh I, I had fore knowledge.
And when you say that, what do you mean?
I, when I came into work that day, I. saw him at the station and I knew he,
him and some of the other officers went camping so I asked him how,
how was the camping trip and he you know he told me it was great,
family loved it. Urn, uh during the conversation he made a comment
yeah he hurt his hand during the urn during camping and I was like oh.
And uh I, I noticed he had a bruising on his arms. I was like that, you got
that from camping and he, he was like no I got surgery. And I was like,
what? I said what kinda surgery you got and I think he removed a cyst or
something from his arms. Urn so I didn't, I didn't know he had DT that
day when I initially spoke to him. And then uh at the end of our
conversation he's like alright I'll see you at DT and I was like okay.
Did you notice any injury to his thumb at that time?
No. I, I know he injured his hand.
How, how do you know he injured his hand?
He made a comment.
Did he tell you how he had injured it?
Well it was during that camping thing. The ... when he went camping.
(Cline interjects) I mean did he say that I, that I fell or that I hit it with
something or do you recall that?
Uh ... l'm not sure what exact activity he was doing when he hurt it. I don't
remember. I, I know he mentioned he hurt his hand or his thumb.
Did, did he indicate that it was still painful or any, anything?
Uh we didn't really elaborate on it I guess.
So you didn't discuss it much, he just mentioned it and (
interjects with "Yeah") you, and you moved on?
Yeah.
(MD/H:PDADMIN:MELISSA:Complaints/C0-12-08:- 3
---------------------------
CLINE:
CLINE:
CLINE:
CLINE:
CLINE:
CLINE:
CLINE:
STATEMENT OF
OFFICER-
Okay. Did you instruct the officers in the training to go slow during the
scenarios?
Yeah, I told them the potential hazards of the techniques, um be careful
cuz we do a Iotta techniques that can cause hyperextension of the arms
um, uh you know there's a, there's a lot of potential for injury so you
know I tell everybody during every DT session, uh I'm not sure if you, if
you made it or not. But I advise everybody go slow. And it's, it's static.
It's not you know we're not going a hundred percent. It's not a dynamic
exercise. It's just very static, we're going through the techniques you
know go through the motions. Some people do, you know regardless
how I tell them you know go slow, go slow, there are some people that
do you know craze out and do the technique hard.
Do you know if um Officer-and Officer appeared to be
going slow or appeared to be just going through the motions or did it
look like they were ( interjects with "Uh") doing too much?
I, I wasn't paying too much attention to them. I, I was uh, what's um,
Officer- was uh working with them and uh I had a different group
and I think it was Meg, Meg had a different group so. We each had like
different groups.
Okay so you weren't directly observing and -during
( interjects with "No") this time?
No.
To your knowledge did Officer- speak to about any injuries
prior to the uh Defensive Tactics training class?
Uh not that I know of.
And during this training was Officer partner Officer-
What, I'm sorry, what?
Were they partners,- and through the entire training?
I think so, yeah.
Did Officer tell you or anyone else that you're aware of that he
injured his thumb prior to DT training on thir, July 13, 2012?
(MD/H:PDADMIN:MEUSSA:Complaints/C0-12-08- 4
------------------------------- - - - ~
STATEMENT OF
OFFICER-
Prior to the training?
CLINE: Yes.
CLINE:
Not that I know of.
Well you mentioned that he had told you that he had injured his hand
while he was camping.
Uh huh.
CLINE: Okay.
I'm sure {Cline interjects with "Other than that") the people who were
camping with him must have knew.
CLINE: Okay.
CLINE:
I assume.
Now during this time did he ever tell you that anyone else or anyone else
that you know of that his thumb was injured off duty and that he
reinjured it while doing Defensive Tactics scenarios with Officer
After the incident occurred?
CLINE: Yes.
CLINE:
Did he tell me that he reinjured it? Okay, wait. I'm sorry, Sir, can you
read it again?
Sure. Did, after the Defensive Tactics training ( interjects with
"Uh huh") and then he injured himself ( interjects with "Mmm
hmm") did he tell you or anybody else that you know of that he had
injured his thumb prior and that this was simply reinjuring it from the
prior injury? The one that he got camping?
interjects) I don't know about who else he told. Um when I
-was there I a ~ treating his hand {Cline interjects with "Okay") and
he mentioned it. He's like oh fuck I fucked up my thumb. Heard him
saying that so.
(MD/H:PDADMIN:MELISSA:Complaints/C0-12-08- 5
------------------------- --------- ------
CLINE:
STATEMENT OF
OFFICER-
Okay, did he say that it, that it was reinjured from the prior camping trip
or anything?
No.
CLINE: No?
CLINE:
CLINE:
CLINE:
CLINE:
CLINE:
CLINE:
No.
Okay. Did Officer-have anything to say about injuring Officer
thumb during the training?
I, I don't know. Not that I know of.
You, you, did you talk to him?
No.
Okay. Do you have any evidence or opinion that would show Officer
ldid or did not injure his thumb during the DT training?
No.
Okay. Have you had any conversation with anyone or heard anyone
saying that Officer injured his thumb prior to DT training and
planned to report it as occurring at the training?
Um, I mean after the incident and I heard about the internals going on
there's this rumor mill that happens here in the city and I heard
something about it. I don't remember every, it, it was, that's what
everybody was talking about I guess after, after-came in I guess.
don't know if it was right after that or, the rumor mill began.
And the rumor mill was?
That he was under investigation for um his leave.
Okay. After Officer claimed that he had injured his thumb in the
Defensive Tactics training class and Officer- uh apparently looked at
it for him, what happened then?
We continued through the class. Um.
(MD/H:PDADMIN:MELISSA:Complaints/C0-12-08- 6
~ ~ - -------- - - ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ - - - - - - - ~ - .
CLINE:
STATEMENT OF
OFFICER
Did Officer--
continue with the scenarios?
I don't think so.
interjects with "I don't know if')
CLINE: Okay.
I don't, I don't think so.
CLINE: And you said that Officer- uh taped Officer thumb?
Yeah. I remember him kinda stabilizing it.
CLINE: Are you aware of any reports that were filed out regarding the injury?
Reports out?
CLINE: Any injury reports that were made regarding his injury that he claimed
occurred during Defensive Tactics training? Do you have any knowledge
ofthose?
Oh like L&l?
CLINE: Yes.
CLINE:
CLINE:
Yeah. Uh he came into work the next day and just so happened I was in
the hallway talking to somebody and uh he was talking to-
And he was telling- that he hurt his thumb and something about he
doesn't know if he can draw his gun and she told, I heard ...
{Cline interjects) Did you overhear the conversation?
Huh?
Did you overhear that conversation?
Yeah.
CLINE: Okay.
And uh she told him well why don't you go upstairs and try to draw your
gun, see if you can. And then uh I guess he couldn't cuz he, he didn't, he
didn't dress up for work so.
(MD/H:PDADM!N:MEUSSA:Complaints/C0-12-08-
7
CLINE:
CLINE:
CLINE:
CLINE:
STATEMENT OF
OFFICER-
Now you said you overheard the conversation. During that conversation
did you ever hear him tell Officer that he initially had injured his
thumb camping in a fall and then that he reinjured it at Defensive Tactics
training?
I didn't hear that.
Okay. Have you discussed this incident with anyone else prior to or after
Officer said he injured his thumb?
At DT?
Yes. Have you discussed it with anyone else?
Yeah. Well both- and I after the in, after um the, the session, him and
I talked. And it was like oh he, he hurt his thumb you know.- told me
he's like yeah he fucked up his thumb. And I told him I was like that
stupid ass. And I told him, I was like you know uh he said something
about him you know his, his hand being hurt. He shouldn't have done it.
And both of him and I were like you know stupid ass for doing that.
Sorry.
Do you, do you think maybe it would have been more appropriate when
he said that he had injuries and, and stuff that to not allow, allow him to
participate in the Defensive Tactics training?
. Uh you know, what is the percentage, what, quarter of our officers come ..
to DT with complaints that you know I have injuries I have this you know,
CLINE:
I have this oh, and you know we just tell them the same thing. Hey, you
know what I mean, you police yourselves. If you guys don't think you can
do the techniques, don't. You know we want you guys to learn it and,
and you know and, and practice it but if, if it's gonna hurt it more or
injure it, you know don't do it. We tell everybody the same thing. Pretty
much I, every session we say that.
Now do you believe that the safety procedures were followed during this
training scenario?
Yeah.
(MD/H:PDADMIN:MELISSA:Compfaints/C0-12-08--
8
-------------------------------- - ---------------------
CLINE:
CLI.NE:
CLINE:
CLINE:
STATEMENT OF
OFFICER-
Okay. Is there any other information you have about this or any other
conversations you've had with anybody that uh might shed a little more
light on this?
No, not really.
Now do you feel the motions that the, during the training scenario um at
the slower speeds uh would cause reinjuring to his thumb? Or could
cause it?
You could definitely cause it if somebody does the technique hard, oh
yeah. I could definitely hurt somebody real easy.
Okay, do you, now you said you didn't observe them doing it so you don't
know if they were doing it hard or ifthey were doing it at, as you said at a
very slow speed?
Yeah. I, I don't know ...
(Cline interjects) So you don't know?
I don't know. Um.
CLINE: Okay.
But I mean like there's, there's some people I partner up with where I got
you know I got kicked in the balls, I got you know I got palm heeled in the
face. And I tell everybody the same thing you know it's like hey go, it's
not dynamic. Just go. You know but people get excited you know.
People, they wanna do the technique correctly and then you got some
people who grab the gun you know when we're, the techniques cuz
we're doing weapon retention. They grab the gun tight. So when you try
to practice the technique slowly like we tell 'em, you can't do it, it's not
effective because they're holding the damn gun tight and it's like oh I
guess that means you want me to go a little bit more dynamic, you know.
You want me to bring the percentage up. It, it happens all the time.
CLINE: Okay.
You know, and so I, um. Other than that, I, I don't know, I don't know.
(MD/H:PDADMIN:MELISSA:Complaints/C0-12-08- 9
------------------------ ---------------------------
CLINE:
CLINE:
CLINE:
CLINE:
STATEMENT OF
OFFICER-
So basically you really don't have an opinion either way as to whether or
not this injury did or didn't occur, you, you're just going by what Officer
ld you at this point and time.
Yeah, I, I, I, I didn't examine it before, you know I, I don't, I don't know
the extent of it. You know.
Okay. Alright well that'll conclude this interview and the time is ...
It is 3:58.
3:58 thank you.
Yes, Sir.
Alright.
(MD/H:PDADMIN:MELISSA:Complaints/C0-12-08- 10
-- -----;------------------------ -----------
C0-12-08
Interview Questions
Interviewer: Commander Paul Cline
Officer: Officer
Date: August 2, 2012
Location:_Renton PD O.P.S.
Interview is being recorded. Please give clear, verbal answers.
Read, "Witness Officer-Admonition".
\._ 1.
\. 2.
"'3.



""' 7.
Please state your name and employment ..
Are you aware of why I am interviewing you?
Do you recall the incident we are here to discuss that occurred on July 13, 2012 at approx.
1600?
Were you working on July 13, 2012 and if so what was your assignment?
Did you instruct at Defensive Tactics training on July 13, 201 at 1430 hours
Did Officer ... and-attend that same training you were instructing?_
Are you aware that Offices J ) claimed that he injured his right thumb during the DT
training he attended with you on July 13th? Y..J-:7
""" 8. Do you know how Officer-injured his right thumb during the training? Explain in \J \,
detail please. ()0 \
..........._ 9. Did Office1 r anyone else tell you that (I l1ad injured his thumb prior to_ l * \li<" A (
training on July 13th? . f'j. I> A
"'"'- 10. Were you aware that his thumb was injured prior to attending DT on the f. \rl \->-
1
);"'\
"'-, 11. Did you instruct the officers in the training to go slow during the scenarios? \ ,.n
i\ " A> v,
......_ 12. Do you know if the other instructors gave similar instructions? \?' ._. '-;:, 1
.__ 13. To your knowledge did Officenpeak t about any injuries? _.)
&._lyr''-1, u
.._ 14. Was u W r . .../
..._ 15. Did you observe them during the scenarios? ,), \ r \;.;
\) .;/l/''- } \;)
.. .,t-- u '

--------------. ----------'------------------------ --
"-..,. 23. Did Officer $ tell you or anyone else that you are aware of that he injured his thumb
prior to DTtraining on July 13, 2012?
'-- 24. Did you know he had injured his thumb while camping prior to the DT training?
"-... 25. Did he ever tell you or anyone else that his thumb was injured off duty and that here-
injured it while doing DT scenarios with
--....,. 26. Did report that he injured humb during the tr:aining?
'-.,. 27. Do you have any evidence or opinion that would show did or did not injure his
thumb at DT training?
"'- 28. Have you had any conversations with anyone or heard anyone saying that- injured
his thumb prior to DTtraining and planned to report it as occurring at the training?
" 29. Did you have any further contact or conversation with what
happened to thumb?
'-. 30. After !aimed he i-njured his thumb what happened?
"'-. 31. . thumb? w
--...,_ 32. Did continue with the scenarios? rjtJt)l" \\-\\\-1\f"'
-......_, 33. Are you aware of any reports that were filed out regarding the injury?
'-.. 34. Have you discussed the incident with anyone else prior to or he injured
his thumb in DTtraining? ts ,-'i-.--<. \)t..s-\ &_( r--t -
"'- 35. Do you believe safety procedures were follo*ed in the training scenarios?
"'-. 36. If claimed to be injured prior to the training scenarios do you feel he should have
been allowed to participate in them?
"- 37. Is there anything else you would like to tell me about this incident and your involvement in
it prior to my ending this interview?
Date and time interview was concluded.