MACK W.

FORD
r' I

7/22/97 ._-- .---.

_. _._to the one for boys?

32

1 /\ 2 3
I
I

A. Q.

Are you referring Or girls,

anywhere. we had a gentleman for boys, with us

A.

Mr. Bernstein,

4:
I

that said he had a burden little girls Q. A.

and we had several

5
6

that had brothers. name? Peavey said he

What was the gentleman's Charlie Peavey;

71
9: 10;

and Charlie

8!

would

be willing

to help with the boys

in a separate

facility.

So we had rented property

south of where we

are now, and it is an old farm, had an old farmhouse, and, of course, stipulations they weren't
I

11 12
13
141

back then in those years

the rigid well, we

of all the rules

and regulations,

as rigid as they are now. those little girls'

But anyway, and I

started

taking

brothers,

15 16 17 18
19 ~
I

think we have had about farmhouse,

8 or 10, maybe the ministries

15 at that old outside Baptist of

and that began

where we are right now at the New Bethany Church.

Q.

And what did you call that ministry New Bethany Okay. Home for Boys. when was that?

there?

201

A.
Q.

21

And roughly '70s?

Are we

22

still

in the early
A. Q.

I think so. Now, how long was the New Bethany Home for

25

Boys there at the farmhouse

south of your current

-----_ ...

'------------------------------_.-_.-.
BAIN

& SIMPSON

COURT REPoRTERS

SHREVEPORT, LoUISIANA

(318) 429-2160

MACK

w.

FORD

7/22/97 31
"

that for

is the

reason

we home,

told and it.

her that She

we were was knew why

going she

use was

it

I
I

2:
3

a children's

willing they

for us to have never sell that

that else.

probably

4
5 6'

would

it to anybody out at $150

So we paid out, say, and may

a month. as was

We paid I started an old because

it to

we burned I say that

the the and

note, old

because building

7 8
91
I

flat-top roofed

building, it and

we were it, you and look

embarrassed

we

re-roofed know,

on a flat-top 1n the storefronts you do to it. and they in

10: 11

building, where So we during could them. today. Q.

as you

it will had the come

leak

regardless here they and came

of what cans to

12
13

to put time

cans that see

over

there, us,

license and water

14 15 16 17
I

in and

those

cans

falling that

It was

embarrassing.

It is not

doing

Now,

the

church

was

formed

in

'71 or

'72?

181

A. Q. A. Q. Home for A. Q. opened?

Somewhere. Early Yes, And Girls Yes, And '70s? sir. at that point there was the New Bethany

19 20 21 22 23
24

in Arcadia? sir. now, when was the next ministry that you

25

_____________

_J

8AIN

&

SIMPSON COURT REPORTERS

SHREVEPORT. LoUISIANA
.

(318) 429-2160

.....

__ ._--

MACK W. FORD

-- 7/22/97
33

1
2 3 4
I

location?
A.
Q.

How long were they there? Yes. Probably Okay. Seems a year, year and a half. after that? in Long

A.
Q.

51 6 7 8 9 10 II! , 12 13

And what happened

A. Street

to me like that the property and there again, it.

came available, We didn't

it was

offered.

solicit

It was an old school, that would like to

and the people replenish

wanted

a caretaker

or remodel

the old facility,

and we did a

lot of work.

But it was so run down that we couldn't, keep up'with it. Home for

we just couldn't Q.

And that is where was the place

the New Bethany

14
15 16 17 18 19 20;
I

boys moved, A.
Q.

at Long Street?

I believe

I am right on that. there in Long with you?

And who was on the staff Was Charlie I think to raise Peavey

Street? A. trying

still associated

Charlie

was kind of on debitation Bubba Key was a

support

in and out. support;

gentleman worked pastor

that helped

raise

he and his wife we had another I can't

21 22
I

there.

And then, of course,

from over at Brownsville, his name; he worked came in.

Texas.

23i 24 25
I
'--

remember

there.

And then we had

Mr. and Mrs. Rapier Mr. Bernstein,

And remember, that say they have

1

all of these people

-------------------------BAIN

-------

&

SIMPSON COURT REPoRTERS

SHREVEPORT, LoUISIANA

(318) 4292160
..

__]

MACK W. FORD -- 7/22/97

34 i 1:

l
a burden for boys or girls, they can only hack two years that kind of work for about The reason is because a year, at the most. You

of the strenuous

operation.

4'

folks, hours

you all do your job and go home.

a day, 365

We do ours 24

5
6,

days a year didn't

staying

on the scene. to go. they but they out. The

So, they really workers wanted didn't

have anyplace

have anyplace

to go, nothing

8
9

to do other out.

than stay there and help, to be burned

get burned
Q.

We had plenty

10

You said that Mr.

how does he pronounce

11 12
.:

his name? A. Q. A.
Q.

Rapier. Rapier'? Yes. Came, and his wife? Yes, sir. Okay. And two boys. And then how long did New Bethany in Long Street? recall, but not long. It didn't Home for

''\

13 14, 15 16
1 7'

A.
Q.

18
19,

A.
Q.

20
21

Boys stay there A.

I can't

22! 23
24

seem like it was long, and then seems Mr. Bernstein, after that the property

to me like,

in South Carolina

that came available. getting

And then we had a lot of because we had

25

trouble

rid of the Long Street,

BAlN

& SIMPSON

COURT REPoRTERS

SHREVEPORT, LoUISIANA

(318) 429-2160

MACK W. FORD

7/22/97

. --1
2

--...:...._-----

'.,

'--'-"--

35

agreed

to use it, and we felt like that we just keep it up and do what they wanted us to do

couldn't

3
4 5 6
,

in remodeling.
Q.

While

the property

was there

in Long Street,

was there any controversy? A. Q.

A.

Oh, yes. And what was that? Mr. Rapier was held, It wasn't for child I believe, abuse in contempt

7:
8 9 101 ,
i

of court. remember. remember killed

that I can

I don't know all the circumstances. it was along about crash. the time Mr. Roloff

r do
was

11:

12 13 14.

in that plane

The news came to the crash, so I was in of the

radio that he was killed Mr. Henry Walker's situation office

in a plane

at that time because and I had nothing

15 16
17 ,
18'
I

at Long Street, involved

to do with

it; I wasn't

in it, but he spent a few days We went to court, and then I We went to
I

in jail in Mansfield. got an attorney the appellate remember

to help get him released. in Baton Rouge, and

19
20

court

don't remember too

the time frame on that. it. We had a lawyer to work.

I don't

21 22
23 24

much about lawyer

to work on it, a He got the man out

from Baton Rouge

of jail. know where

Q.

And then, of course, he is at today. Okay. And let's see.

he left us, and I don't

25

At the time -- but

BAiN

&

SIMPSON COURT REPoRTERS

SHREVEPORT, LoUISlANA

(318) 429-2160

MACK W. FORD

-- 7/22/97 -------- --------

.- --

36

1:

that was a mission A. Yes, sir.

of New Bethany We considered

Baptist that

Church?

-- that was

our outreach,
4

yes, sir. around his arrest of

Q. and court

And so if the publicity appearance -refers

5 6

to you as the director

the New Bethany A. that.

Q.
! I
!

7'
8 9 10i

Yes, sir, it sure did, and I am sorry about

So if newspaper

articles

about

that time Home

refer to you as the director for Boys, A. Q. A. Q. is that accurate? Yes, sir. Okay. Well,

of the New Bethany

11,

12

r >.

13

So you were responsible in a sense.

for it?

14 15 16 17

This was the continuation

of the mission there,

that had been at the farmhouse south of where you are? A. Yes, sir.

south of Arcadia

19

Q. farmhouse Street? A. Q.

And the boys that had been there at that south of you in Arcadia were moved to Long

20
21

22

Yes, sir. Okay. And you all took more boys there at

Long Street?
25

A.

Yes, sir.

BAlN

&

SIMPSON COURT REPORTERS

SHREVEPORT,

LoUISIANA

(318) 429-2160

MACK W. FORD

7/22/97

----Q. facility A. Q.
5'

.-.

------_._-_

..

_._---

--_.

--_._.,
37 I

Okay.

And how often would

you visit

the

there in Long Street? As often as I could. And also at this time I believe you were became

saying

that the property

in South Carolina

6
7

available? A. Yes, sir, some -- I don't remember --

MR. HARPER: a break, please.

Mr. Bernstein,

let's take

9
10

MR. BERNSTEIN: (A brief BY MR. BERNSTEIN: recess

Sure.

was held)

13

Q.

Reverend

Ford, when we left off,

I think South

14
lS

was starting Carolina.

to ask you about Walterboro,

I think you told me that you learned available up there, something

there

16 17

was some property available A.

up there? Yes, sir. We heard through a pastor there

was some property Q. A.

22 23
24

available. was this? School and Church.

What property

It was the old Calvary And so you opened We really began opened

Q. A. eventually Q.

a home for boys up there? it, and

to pray about

it for boys. when did you open that home for

2S

And roughly

BAIN

&

SIMPSON COURT REPoRlCRS

SHREVEPORT, LoUISIANA

(31R) 429-2160

-_.-_._

.....

MACK W. FORD -- 7/22/97

r+:

-- __

...

_-_

-.----- ---- -- --------

38 -- -----

11

boys? A. Probably the latter part of the 70's. that were at Long Street, in South Carolina? were

t-",

21 i 31
4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11

Q.

And the boys to the home Maybe

they moved A.
Q. A. Q.

two or three. to the rest?

What happened Went home. And you opened Yes, sir. Okay.

the home in South

Carolina?

A.
Q.

And how long did you have a home

for

boys in South Carolina? A.

Q. A.

12

I can't

remember

exactly.

131
141
16
1

Was it several It wouldn't

years? years; maybe three

be several

151
171
181
191

years. Q. And that home that -- you closed that home,

or that home was closed? A.

Q.

Yes, sir. Okay. Because

It is not operating

now.

20'

I
I

And why was that home closed? of the licensing issue. with regard

A.
Q.

211 221

And was there some controversy in South Carolina?

to the home A.
Q.

231
241
251

Yes, sir. Okay. And in fact, did the state agency in

I l

South Carolina

have to force its way into the facility --- - ._--------'

SHREVEPORT, LoUISIANA

_
BAlN

&

SIMPSON COURT REPoRlERS

(318) 429-2160

MACK W. FORD -- 7/22/97

39 1
/

at some point A.

in order force.

to enforce

a court order? and I wasn't

"-,

Wasn't
I

They came,

3'

there.
Q.

don't know what all happened. What did you hear about what happened?
I

4
5 61

A.

hear that my men were

I

charged

with in

false

imprisonment defense.

and of course,

wasn't

there

We found later that all the other rooms or lockups.

schools

si
9

has timeout
Q.

As a result of that and the licensing

issue,

10
11
I

the home was closed? A. of it.

Q.

Yes, sir.

believe

that was the stemming

121
131

And you mentioned

a timeout

or lockup

room.

14 15 16
171

What are you referring A.

to by that? schools and all the schools room

All the public

of South Carolina

has what they call a timeout that go out of control. referring

for young people course,

And of

IS! 19 20 21
!

the one that we were

to that was out from Columbia. room at South

of control, Q.

he just come out of lockup

And was that -- was there a small Home for Boys in Walterboro,

the New Bethany Carolina, A.

22:
23

that was used for confinement? Only for that one boy, and that was because out of control waiting for his

24 25
;

he went completely parents

,----RAIN

to come.

That was the only time it was ever

-------------------& SIMPSON
COURT REpORTERS SHREVEPORT, LoUISIANA

(318) 429-2160

---------

MACK

W.

FORD

-- 7/22/97
--

,----------1 2 3
4! ,

-------

40

used. Q. light And that did room, let's see, did not have a

in it, A. Q. A. Q. A.

it? It had a light in it? in it.

I
I

Yes. It had Yes, Did Yes, Did No, just kept

! 5
6 7:

a light

sir. it have sir. it have sir, drinking the door water guy at available? looked and after he a bed in it?

81 ;
9

Q.
A. him sat

10 11
121
!

because the

that

outside at night. there sir,

all

times,

wasn't Q. A. from

13: 14 15 16 17
18i

Was NO, room. But

a toilet but the

in that toilet was

room? right across

the Q.

whoever the

was

confined and

in that

room of

would their

have

to secure to

cooperation room

permission toilet,

watcher wouldn't A.

leave

that

to go

to the

19 20

they? Yes, Did have sir. the any New But he wasn't Home kept for in there Boys with long.

Q.
22 23 24
2 5~

Bethany

in South regard to

Carolina corporal A.

guidelines

or policy

discipline? Yes, And sir. did they have any guidelines or policies

Q.

1_RAIN

---

-------------_

--_--

---

&

SIMPSON COURT REPoR11!RS

SHREVEPORT. LoUISIANA

----(318) 429-2160

-----

------

MACK W. FORD -- 7/22/97

11== -r~~ard
i

41

t~'----we-l~-'-~Oldon. I have labeled

I am going

to show Exhibit 1

2' 3
4 5
6i

you a document

as Defendant's that, first off.

and ask you if you recognize (The witness Q. A. reviews

the document)

Have you ever seen that before? I don't know nothing about this,

7
8
I

Mr. Bernstein.
Q.

Okay.

Does that at the top say,

"policy on

91

physical A.
Q.

restraint"? That is what it says here. say, physical

10'

i
11

And does

it in the first paragraph of our policy concerning

12
13 14 15 16

IIThis is an outline restraint

at New Bethany MR. HODGE:

Home for Boys"?

r object

to the form of the,

question.

The document

speaks

for itself. I am just trying to and

MR. BERNSTEIN: ascertain

17 18
19 20

if -- he says he hasn't

seen it before, for Boys. says what

it says at the top New Bethany MR. HODGE: says, and the witness document. (Exhibit No.1

Home

The document

it

says he doesn't

recognize

the

was marked)

23

BY MR. BERNSTEIN:
Q.

24 25
J

I am going

to hand you another Exhibit

.. _ . _.

document

that are
_J

r have labeled as Defendant's

2, and there

I_

. __

BAIN

& SIMPSON
..

COURT REPORTERS

SHREVEPORT,

LOUISIANA

(318) 4292160

.- - .-.-----

_._--

MACK W. FORD

7/22/97 -=--------- ---- -- ---42

some marginal
I 3

marks

on this, and for purposes

of that,

would

just ask that you ignore to the typewritten

that and just, with have you ever

regard

information,

4
5 6

seen that before? (The witness

Q.

reviews

the document) Have you ever seen that

And my question

is:

7
8 9

before? A.
Q.

No, sir. Okay. And you do not recognize Baptist Church that as a or any of the

10 11 12 13 14 15 16

document

from New Bethany ministries?

New Bethany A.
Q.

No, sir. Thank you. (Exhibit NO.2 was marked) to hand you a document Exhibit today. the document) that I am

Q. labeling

I am going

as Defendant's

3 and ask you if you

17 18
19

have seen that before (The witness A.

reviews

That is the old one we sent out,

20
21 22 23 24 25

Mr. Bernstein.
Q.

"Old one"; old what? The old application. The old application? Yes, sir. That has been redone. Home

A. Q. A.
Q.

And that was used by the New Bethany

BAIN

& SIMPSON

COURT REPoRTERS

SHREVEPORT, LoUISIANA

(318) 429-2160

MACK W. FORD
,..

-- 7/22/97
43

-_.-

..

for Girls A.
I

in Arcadia? For the boys. New Bethany Yes, sir. Did the New Bethany Home for Girls ever use Home for Boys?

2
3l
,

Q. A. Q. that? A.

4' 5

think he had the one yesterday

that was

8 9

for the girls. Q. Boys used? A. Q.

I

That is the one the New Bethany

Home

for

10 11 12 13

believe

it was. the New Bethany or at Long

Is that

the one used when

Home for Boys was in Bienville Street A. remember.

Q.

Parish

14
15 16 17 18

or in South Carolina?
I

believe

Long Street,

the best I can

Okay.

Could

it have been the one used

1n

South

Carolina? A. Q. Could have been. Could Home it be also the one used when the for Boys was located at the current

21

New Bethany location A.

22
23

in Arcadia? I don't think we had one at that time.

24
'-.

(Exhibit No. 3 was marked) Q.

j

~.

25
1 __ BAiN

I show you another

exhibit

I am going

to

&

SIMPSON COURT REPoRlCRS

SHREVEPORT, LoUISIANA

(318) 429-2160

------_

MACK W. FORD

7/22/97

-_.
1;

44 I __.

label as Defendant's ever

Exhibit

4 and ask you if you have

2
3 4

seen that before. (The witness A.

Q.

reviews

the document) that.

I can't recall

seeing

5 6
7! 8!
i

Does that look like a form that the Home for Boys may have used can't say that it was. Does that when you say you can't be? at some time?

New Bethany A.
Q.
I

Okay.

say it was, does that mean that it might A.

Q.
i

10
111

didn't

approve

it. that? it.

Somebody Somebody

else may have done

12 13
./

A.

else may have approved was marked) to the New Bethany the term I would

(Exhibit No.4 Q. With regard

I guess

14 15 16 17 18
I
I

Home

for

Boys, who was, of command";

use is "chain at that

in other words,

as I understood

time you were the pastor Church, ministry A. Q.

of New Bethany Home

Baptist

and the New Bethany of the church; Right. Okay.

for Boys was a

19
20

is that correct?

21 22 23 24 25

And who did you have New Bethany

-- at the time in South the

that you located Carolina, school, A.

Home for Boys

who was under you in terms the home?

Mr.

of running

Olin King.

BAIN

&

SIMPSON COURT REPORTERS

SHREVEPORT,

LoUISIANA

(318) 429-2160

MACK W. FORD -- 7/22/97 --------_._.-._-_. -----1

- .._--

Q.

And how did Mr. King come to be a staff for New Bethany Home for Boys? that yesterday; in Missouri

---l
45

2;

member A. right.

3 4
I

My wife answered

she was that was with the

He came from a church recommended there.

5i

highly youth

by the pastor

that worked

6
7 8

Q.

And the information

that you had about

Mr. King would have been what he told you and what you learned by talking to his pastor and a friend of

Mr. King's
11

that was also a pastor? Right. Okay. And that was the extent of the he

A.
Q.

12
13i

information started A. worked

you obtained

about Mr. King before

14
15

supervising Yes, sir.

boys at the New Bethany

Home?

I knew that he was a linesman, and light, and we never just

16 17
I

with the power

we never give them a position them for quite they work.

Q.

unless

we are around actions and how

181

some time and see their

19
20

And how do you go about being

around

them

21
22

for some time?

A.

They have to spend

some time with us.

23
24
'._"

don't know how long in this particular was with us a long time.
Q.

case, but he

He was a man of character. he was a staff member at the

25

In other words,

BAIN

& SIMPSON

COURT REPORlERS

SHREVEPORT, LoUISIANA

(318) 429-2160

MACK W. FORD -- 7/22/97 ------_ .._-1

46

New Bethany Carolina?

,

Home

in Arcadia

before

he went

to South

2
3;

A.

Well, we called

it kind of training.

It was

4
5

kind of a training
Q. A.

base for him. is done where?

And the training In Arcadia.

7 8
91

Q.

So Mr. King would have done his training Home in Arcadia?

at

the New Bethany A.

Q.

Yes, sir. Okay. And at that point, Home prior to your

10~ 11 12
/-".

opening

the New Bethany

for Boys

in South was

Carolina,

the only mission

that you had in Arcadia

13 14 15 16
I

the home for girls; A.

Q.

is that right?

Right. Okay. And so his training was being on the

staff at the New Bethany

A.

Home for Girls?

I

! 171

Well,

under

supervision. position,

don't

think he

18 19
20

was in a supervisory there. to do. Q.

but I think he worked we have got a lot

When we say "worked

there",

21

And then you put him over the home it in South Carolina?

for boys

22
23
24

when you opened A.

Q.

Yes, sir. Okay. Did you train anybody in South Carolina?

__ . .' ___J

else that then

25

was a staff member

RAIN

&

SIMPSON COURT REPoRITRS

SHREVEPORT, LoUlSrANA

(318) 429-2160

..

.,.

MACK W. FORD -- 7/22/97 -.---.---------=---- 1 2

--was our

47
-

-]
I
I

A. school David

Yes, sir. supervisor

Brother

David Aribitele

at that particular

time, and Brother

3;
4
5 6 7

went to South Carolina

to take over the boys'

school.
Q.

And how do you spell his last name? A-R-I-B-I-T-E-L-E,

I

A.
Q.

believe.

And how did he come to be the school at New Bethany? Also from a church where a pastor had highly

8
9

supervisor A.

10
11

recommended Q.

him. Okay. Did you do what investigation I would on him? The pastor guess they

12 13 14 15

call a background A. recommended

Only through

the pastor.

him, and he had been with him a long time, i recommended him. Then he took his ACE

and he highly
i

161
17 18

training. Q. Education A.
Q.

And that is the Accelerated training? Yes, sir.

Christian

19 !

20

And that is the paces of that program? Yes, sir.

that are for the

21
22
23 24

teachers A.
Q.

My wife explained

that. for for

Is there a special

ACE curriculum

supervisors, the monitors

or is it the same as the curriculum and --

25

BAiN

&

SIMPSON COURT REPoRTERS

SHREVEPORT. LoUISIANA

(318) 429-2160

MACK W. FORD

-- 7/22/97 ._-----_._--

._-----

..

--

48 ---_

It is used the same way, but there are

2, I 3

different Q. interested A.
Q.

paces. So there are paces in teaching Yes. Okay. And that is what he took; that was for adults that are

4
5
6

the ACE program?

7
8 9;
I

his training? A. Q. was? A. I know he was a youth director Christian degree at that time, here in for Yes. Do you know what his educational background

101
11

12
13

but his wife went to Baptist Shreveport secondary Q. A.

College

and got her teaching education. And how about him? He didn't,

or whatever

14
15 16

but I understand but I can't

that he already remember. of of

17
I

had some kind of degree,

Q.

181

Okay.

And how long was he the supervisor the supervisor

19

the school the school A. Q.

and he would have been at the home for girls Yes, sir.

20

in Arcadia?

And how long was he there as school for the girls' Subject home in Arcadia? probably three or

23
24

supervisor A. I
!

to correction,

25

four years.

RAIN

&

SIMPSON COURT REPoRTERS

SHREVEPORT. LoUISIANA

(318) 429-2160

----

MACK W. FORD
I

-- 7/22/97 - .. - ._:

..

_._---

--_ .... -

-_.

-._

49

Q.

Okay.

And then you

2
I

A. Q.
A. Q.

He was transferred. He was transferred Yes, sir. Okay. And how long was he in South to South Carolina?

3'
4

5:
6
7

Carolina? A.
Q.
1
I

Until Until Yes.

the problem the problem

erupted. arose?

81
91 10' 11: 12 13 14 15
I

A.
Q.

Anybody

else that you trained in South Carolina?

at Arcadia

that was on the staff A.

Not that I can remember, My son-in-law

subject

to in the

correction. school

and daughter They weren't

worked

in South Carolina.

there during

the problem. Q. before A. arose.

Q.

161

Okay.

In other words,

they had left there

17! 18

the problem? Yes.

I

think

it was before

the problem

19
20 21

Where did they go when

they left?

A.
I

They come back home, back with us. Back to Arcadia? Yes. And which That son-in-law and daughter was that?

22 : 23 24

Q. A. Q. A.

25

is Theila

and Wade Sutton.

BAIN & SIMPSON COURT REPORTERS

SHREVEPORT, LoUISIANA

(318) 429-2160

MACK W. FORD -- 7/22/97 .. .. _----

__

50 --.-------.-------__:::~

Q.

And then I think one of your other one of Olin King's sons?

daughters

2
3; 4'

had married A.
Q.

That is my baby. Okay. And which daughter was that?

5 6i
7 8 9 10; 11

A. Q. A. Q.

That is Penny. Okay. And what is Penny's husband's name?

Douglas. Okay. Did Douglas and Penny have any role Home in South

on the staff at the New Bethany Carolina? A.

Q. A. Q.
NO,

sir.

12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19\ 20

Did they live up there? No, sir. There was another named King, wasn't Two Kings; staff member there? in South

Carolina A.
Q.

no relation. And the second man's name

No relation.

was A. Q.
A.
t

can't

remember.

Okay. Robert.
I

21
22

believe

it was Robert.

Q. A. Q.

Was he trained No. Okay. Home?

by you?

23
24

How did he come to work

for the

25

New Bethany

_ ..

--"_'---'

__ ._-.-._-----COURT REPoRTERS SHREVEPORT. LoUISIANA

BAlN

& SIMPSON
-

(318) 429-2160

_._._--_-

_ .._ .....

-_._._- .. ----

--

_._----

MACK

W.

FORD

-- 7/22/97

._-_
A. Q.
3 4

. ..:..__----

------other

----

51

Through Somebody Yes, Okay. he became

the

Kings, they

the

Kings.

that

knew?

A. Q. before A. him putting Q. both

sir. What did you member Olin know about Robert King Home? in

5
6

a staff used on Mr.

at New Kingls did

Bethany discretion really

I just him And

staff. Olin false charged King

I never and Mr.

know. were

Mr. with

Robert

King

charged

imprisonment with they? Olin had

in South offense in

Carolina, 11 12 13 14 15
!

or were

a criminal

South

Carolina,

werenlt think

A.
it; donlt

I donlt it was

anything

to do with
I

I think know. Q.

Robert,

and

that

is hearsay.

What That

do you both

know

about

that, the

the

hearsay? show

16' 17 they

A.
were. Q. A.

were

charged;

documents

How

did

you

hear from you

that

they

had

been

charged?

I was

called did

South do when the the

Carolina. you learned and that? we went

20 21 22 23
24

Q.
A. to South Q. some point

And

what

I brought

it before met with

church,

Carolina, Okay. the an

lawyers. correct Carolina that in of either at

And

isnlt

it also in South

authorities investigation

25

conducting

of allegations

-----------------------BAIN

J
(318) 429-2160

&

SIMPSON COURT REPoRTERS

SHREVEPORT, LoUISIANA

MACK
,
I

W.

FORD

-- 7/22/97

._-----------=----------------abuse into or neglect the A. Q. property That What I was two boys up, of children up there? what I was told; I don't know. had to force their way

52

I l! 2'
3

wasn't were told ran

you

told

about came

that? out to investigate the little

5: ,

A. because boy had the

that away;

they

6 7 8
91,

reported come, boy

we had they

locked the boy

and

when

they

sure

enough

locked That

up with is when was

the

sitting started. that was

outside,

monitor. Q.

it all boy

10 11 12!
I

So there guarded, youth? He was Looked Yes, Okay. to control

-- the

locked

up word,

was

being

I guess,

for

lack

of a better

by another A. Q. A. Q. ability could

13 14 15 16 17_ 18 19 20 21 22 23
24

looked after?

after.

sir. The youth on the the outside on had the the

whether room?

youth

inside

leave

that

A. Q. A.
go, but

Yes, The

sir. youth on the inside couldn't able him walk to come stay -and

It wasn't he just parents In other room was

locked. -- they there. the

He was requested

there

until

his Q.

got

words,

boy

that the

was

in the and

25

confinement

could

have

turned

doorknob

BAIN

& SIMPSON

COURT REPoRTERS

SHREVEPORT, LoUISIANA

(318) 429-2160

MACK W. FORD -- 7/22/97 _._--- -_._----.

!

-'-----

- ---_.

---

-- ----

---- --.--- --- 53

1I

walked A. Q.

out? Yes. Okay. At that time

I

think

there was some of

4 5
6

discussion plastic A. Q. A. Q.

of whether

or not there had been pieces to paddling? about that.

pipe used with regards

I

don't

know anything

7
8 9

Did you hear that at any point? No, sir. There was also a discussion while at the time that on the farm

10:
11

boys were roped together field. A. Q. A. Q.

they worked about that?

Did you know anything No.

121 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22
23

Did you ever hear about No, sir. Were you ever present

that?

during

any of the

court proceedings A. Q. A.
Q.

in South Carolina?

On the last. The last one? Yes. And would you get periodic reports from Olin

King as to what was going on during A. Q. A. Our attorneys. The attorneys Yes. would?

this controversy?

24

25

L__
BAIN

Q.

And who were your attorneys?

--------------COURT REPoRTERS SHREVEPORT, LoUISIANA

.. ---

------__j

& SIMPSON

(318) 429-2160

MACK W. FORD

7/22/97
--.---._-_.'-

- - -- ..--".

54 --------_;:__

1 /'-\

A.
Q.

Christian

Law Association,

Cleveland,

Ohio.

2!
3

Do you remember that were

the names of any of the in representing you at

attorneys that time? A.

I forgot.

involved

5:
6
7
8 I

Dr. Dave Gibbs,

Dan Lumas;

some others,

but

Q.

How was the decision

made

to close

the home

in South Carol ina? MR. HODGE; question. decision

I I

object it.

to the form of the How was the

10
11

donlt understand or why?

made,

12
13

BY MR. BERNSTEIN:
Q.

Why was the decision

made to close

the home

14
15 16 17 18 19
20
I , ,

in South Carolina? A. Q. A. Q. A.
Q.
I

don't

remember. that decision being made?

Do you remember No, sir. Okay.

But it was closed?

It was closed. It was closed up there? Yes. Okay. And it was closed shortly after all shortly after the problem

21 22
23

occurred A. Q.

/"

"

24 25

the court proceedings

A
.. --------BAIN

up there around

licensing?

I canlt

remember.
--_.'

-.

-- .. - -----(318) 429-2160

&

SIMPSON COURT REPoRTERS

SHREVEPORT, LoUISIANA

MACK W. FORD -- 7/22/97

----_.Q.
2i
3

55

The boys that were at the home in South what happened Went home. Okay. Did you bring any of them back to to them?

Carolina,
A. Q.

5, 6
7

Louisiana?
A. Q.
1

No, sir. How long was it before Home you opened the

81
9

New Bethany
A.

for Boys in Arcadia? shortly after that.

I

Probably

can't

10
111,
I

remember
Q.

the time frame. Who made the decision to close the home in

12
-,

South Carolina?
A.

13 14 15 16 17
18 ,

I think the authorities. would know that. after

can't

remember.

The lawyers Q.

And then shortly

that you opened

the

Home for Boys in Arcadia?

A. Q.

Sometime Okay.

after

that. it has been located

And that is where

19 20
\

since?
A.

Ever since. Now, yesterday your wife mentioned that you

21 22 23 241

Q.

had a facility
A. Q.

in Alabama.

It never did operate. Where __

-------------

did you try to open a place

in

25~ama_?
BAIN

._SHREVEPORT, LoUISIANA

.--

__j

ii

&

SIMPSON COURT REPoRTERS

(318) 429~2160

MACK W. FORD

7/22/97
---_. _.-.- . ----56 ---=--~

A. Q.

Opelika

Community. were you going to

And what kind of ministry Alabama?

3:
4 51

have in Opelika,
A.

We were going

to put boys there. in

Q.

Was this after you had the home for boys

6 7
8 9
I ,

South Carolina?
A.

Along About

about the same time. the same time as the problem? before,

Q. A.
Q.

No, probably Okay. Again,

10

I
11

A. the church
I

that property
it

became

available

and

12

offered

to us, and we just felt like be a good

.: "

13

after doing place

a lot of work to it it would

14
15 16

to put boys.
Q.

And which Berean

church

was that? I believe that is

A.

Baptist

Church. subject

17 18
19
20

the name of the church, Opelika. Q.

A. Q.

to correction,

And why didn't Because

you open a mission against

there? us. a

the judge marched

21 22
23
24

And how did that keep you from opening in Opelika, Well, Alabama? I met with the

mission
A.

after he did that,

judge with my lawyers, the community

and they just simply

said that did

25

don't want you here,

and so we never

-------------------------------_.
BAiN

---

.J

& SIMPSON
__ ._ ..

COURT REPoRTERS
..

SHREVEPORT, LoUISIANA
..
_

(318) 429-2160

_._-_._--_.

_._---_

_--_ .. - - ----_

--

MACK W. FORD

-- 7/22/97
------

._-----

57

1 2 3
4

open it.
Q.

Did they tell you why the community

didn't

want you there? A. They were afraid with. it, the missions because there is a that of the types of boys we

5
6

were dealing
Q.

And as I appreciate you undertake

71 81
9
,

you undertake, calling A. Q. Opelika, there? A. community

from God? Yes, sir. And your meeting Alabama, convinced with the secular judge in

10!

11 12
13

you to not open a mission

We met also with the community, says, we are living too close;

and the we are afraid And so we There

14 15

of the children; met the judge,

we don't want you here.

and that was his final decision. We walked away

17

was no hard feelings. the property. Q.

from it and sold

18
19

So as I appreciate

it, the homes

that you

20 21 i 22 23
24 25
I

have opened

would be, first start off, New Bethany and then started which a boys then was

Home for Girl s in Arcadia, horne at the farmhouse moved to Long Street.

south of there,

And then that was closed in DeSoto Parish, South and then

following you opened

the controversy

the home in Walterboro,

Carolina,

BAiN

&

SIMPSON COURT REPoRTERS

SHREVEPORT, LoUlSIANA

(318) 429-2160

MACK W. FORD -- 7/22/97

1:

which was closed over Olin King's

following arrest

the controversy

up there issue and in South

---'--,I
58
I

2 3
4
i

and the licensing charges

the investigation Carolina. in Opelika, opposition. Arcadia girls? True.

Q.

of child abuse

And also you have attempted Alabama,

to open a home of community for boys in

5
6

and did not because a home

And then you opened

7 8
9

at the same site that you have the home for

10
11

Okay.

Was Olin King an ordained

minister?

A.
Q.

No, sir. Were any of the people ordained ministers? I think David Aribitele the pastor was on the staff in South

12 13 14

Carolina A. ordained; there,

Q.
!

Yes, sir.

15 16 17
18 . 19
20

and Mr. Hodge,

of the church

was ordained. And that Mr. Hodge was on the staff? No, sir. He only pastored the church.

A.
Q.

In Walterboro, Right. What church

South Carolina?

A.
Q.

21

ordained

David Aribitele? remember what it

22
I

A.
I

His home church.

I can't

23
24

was.
Q.

Was he ordained

before

you became

associated

25

with him?

RAIN

&

SIMPSON COURT REPORTERS

SHREVEPORT. LoUISIANA

(318) 429-2160

MACK W. FORD - - 7/22/97

.. .
.... ... ------,

59

1 2. 3

A. Q. Girls? A.
Q.

Yes, sir. Have you ever heard of the Rebecca Home for

4;
5'

Yes, sir. Okay. And when did you first hear of the

6
7: 8
I

Rebecca A. Q.

Home for Girls? Probably Okay. 1948, '49. Roloff's

And that is one of Reverend Christi? ministry.

9
10
11

ministries A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. girls

from Corpus

It is the girls' What? It is the girls' In Corpus Yes. That was founded As far as I know. Okay.

12
/

ministry

there.

".

13

Christi?

14
15 16

by Reverend

Roloff?

17
181

And do you know if any of the to your wife in the Rebecca Did you

-- well, you heard my questions about, the girls to Kansas that were

19

yesterday

Home were moved 21

22
I 23 24

City from Texas.

know that that happened? A. Q. A. Yes, sir. How did you learn about that? They called available, me and asked me if I had a

and I told them at that particular

BAiN

& SIMPSON

COURT REPoRTERS

SHREVEPORT, LoUISIANA

(318) 429-2160

MACK W. FORD -- 7/22/97

~-------------------------------~--------1.
2

60

time that we had a building completed,

that wasn't

finished,

and so that was the last I heard of it. move there then. from Corpus Christi to

3;
4.

They didn't
Q.

And so they moved City, Missouri? Yes, sir. Okay. Christi

5
6

Kansas !
i

A.
Q.

Do you know why they moved to Kansas City, Missouri?

from

8
9

Corpus A.
I

I have no idea. Who was it that called Wiley Cameron. the Rebecca Home for you about that?

10:

Q. A.

11: 12 13 14

Q. Girls? A. Brother
Q.

What was his role with

He replaced

Brother

Lester

Roloff

after

15
16 171 18 19

Roloff was killed. This would in '72? Somewhere Okay. along there. have been after that have been after Brother Roloff

was killed A.
Q.

So this would

20
21 22

then?
A. Q.

Yes, sir. Okay. And when did you next have any Home for Girls?

23
.

dealings A. Q.

with the Rebecca After

,....,

24 25

they left Missouri.

Do you know why they left Missouri?

BAIN

&

SIMPSON COURT REPoRTERS

SHREVEPORT, LoUISIANA

(318) 429-2160