Constructive Comments Discussion Group Updating My Bronco H39 - 2012 Style

Constructive Comments Discussion Group: Updating my Bronco H39 - 2012 style
21/09/2012
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Return to Index Niels Henk em ans (Login jpz4) Missing-Lynx m em bers from IP address 62.194.131.10
Updating my Bronco H39 - 2012 style

September 20 2012 at 9:45 AM
Some of you may know how frustrating Bronco's H39 can be. When you take a close look almost any part has room for improvement. Being fed up with the problems and frustrated by scratch-building parts - something I would have to repeat for 4 or 5 kits - I decided to take a more modern approach: producing some 3D designs and having them produced by 3D printers. I had been hesitant of the technology for years, but last year I felt it had reached a level where it could come close enough to traditionally produced items. When I got my first parts I was more than pleased and I hope the photos below are an inspiration to others as well. (I'll be bringing these parts to the Scale Model Challenge in Veldhoven next month, so you can take a look at them yourself). My first goal was to get some proper bogies. All the available kits have serious problems in construction, size, shape, etc. This is the printed design.
I didn't like the spring-system of the kits so I figured I'd try to design an easy fix. Didn't expect it to work, but it actually did. Inside the outer spring even is a second smaller spring.
At first I wanted only the bogies without the wheels, but Erik van Mierlo (you may remember his own corrected Hotchkiss) pointed out the wheels were very poor as well. He was right. (On the left Heller and Bronco, on the right Trumpeter).
http://www.network54.com/Forum/110741/thread/1348148756/Updating+my+Bronco+H39+-+2012+style
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Bizarre differences between the sprockets in the various kits. My own design turned out to have some issues with fitting the kit (and AM) tracks, so I slightly reduced the size later.
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The idler wheels also lacked detail and did not have the characteristic hollow rim (because they area made from a single piece of plastic). This obviously was not a problem in the 3D printing process.
Idlers
Early engine hatch.
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The assembled bogies. Compare the differences in size, shape and detail.
When assembled, the bogies are fully movable. None of the kits are.
When I was happy with the design of the bogies I shifted my attention to the engine compartment. Bronco got it completely wrong! The gas tank looks like... I've no idea what it is supposed to look like. The engine they include is most likely a Renault 4-cylinder engine, not the Hotchkiss 6-cylinder engine. Again I considered scratch-building everything, but finally decided on designing some new parts after all. Here's a picture of the design in progress (still is). At this moment I've not yet added any drive belts. Unfortunately I still lack proper photos of those parts. The white object is a sheet metal cover that funnels air to the cooling. The metal makes sure fresh air is sucked in through the small grill in the engine hatch. (The large grill is intended to get rid of the warm air.)
http://www.network54.com/Forum/110741/thread/1348148756/Updating+my+Bronco+H39+-+2012+style 4 / 15
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The design as it was sent to the printers...
... and how it finally arrived.
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On the right are the main pieces of the engine.
Oil reservoir is on the left.
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Fan and fan housing.
Radiator on the left.
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Various pieces of the engine. The carburator and air-hose can also be seen.
Gas tank, ammo drums and a Reibel. The 'steering wheel' actually is a part of the engine cooling.
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Reibel. I've added it as a test. I'll be adding placing it in the turret against the 37mm gun when I'm ready.
I hope this can inspire those of you have been considering to design their own parts. I've found it is very rewarding to get the parts you have been wanting for years, but were never available. If you can, give it a try. Any questions or comments are of course very welcome. Niels ____________________________________________
This m essage has been edited by jpz4 from IP address 62.194.131.10 on Sep 20, 2012 9:50 AM
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Roman Volchenkov
(Login Bizarre616) Missing-Lynx m em bers 129.177.222.132
wow, the future of modelling is here?
Septem ber 20 2012, 9:54 AM
so, next we would be able to upload the scale plans into the system, design the parts brakedown ourselves and then grow our own sprues? and manufacturers would be selling ready-to-use plans for printers as apps online. http://roman-bizarre.blogspot.com/
Respond to this message
Niels Henkemans
(Login jpz4) Missing-Lynx m em bers 62.194.131.10
re:
Septem ber 20 2012, 5:56 PM
Thanks Roman. Who knows what the future will bring. Perhaps good quality printers will be available in every household. Or perhaps it will be like ordering prints of your digital photos. Rather than printing the yourself, you could pick them up at any supermarket. ____________________________________________
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Jerry Rutman
(Login jrutm an53) Missing-Lynx m em bers 64.121.175.128
Those new parts are beautiful and much
Septem ber 20 2012, 10:49 AM
more accurate. That is a wonderful new tool. I have seen other guys that have had parts made as well and they are awesome. This whole thing makes me sad though. Probably the last thing that made me unique,as a human being,can now be done by anyone with the correct computer knowledge,thus taking the human element out of it. Yes,it still takes a human to program the application but can you see my point? Scratchbuilding is now obsolete. I always looked at modeling as an art but apparently it will no longer be that in the near future. J
Niels Henkemans
re:
Thanks Jerry and I understand your feelings. It's fortunately still the quality, patience and determination of a scratchbuilder that determines the outcome. Fortunately it is not yet different when it comes to 3D designing. It's a different kind of craftsmanship and while it is less vulnerable for errors, it's still very much up to the modeller to get a proper result. The technology places the modeller among the various manufacturers and after-market companies. I wonder where this will lead, but it will undoubtedly have an effect on the modelling community. ____________________________________________
Pat Stansell
(Login pstansell) Missing-Lynx m em bers 76.109.152.97
Did you know you can sell these? That is, if you want to... You should seehttp://www.click2detail.com/
Septem ber 20 2012, 11:00 AM
They will broker your designs and allow others to purchase them. You get a percentage of each sale. Food for thought, Your excellent efforts deserve reward! Pat MMiR "My friend does not worry, all are friendly who are fanatical of the steel of the tank."
Niels Henkemans
re:
Hi Pat, Thanks for the heads up about that website. I'm aware of the selling possibilities and the company that printed these parts (Shapeways) offer a similar service. I'll check the other website out as well to see if there are interesting differences. ____________________________________________
Roy A. Schlicht
(Login schlichtr) Missing-Lynx m em bers 138.163.106.71
That is FAR OUT...
Septem ber 20 2012, 11:28 AM
Fantastic, when can I get a set? Do one to convert the Bronco H39 to a H35 and I am there. Roy
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Niels Henkemans
re:
Thanks Roy. Actually you're not the first person to ask me. I've already designed the rubber road-wheels for the H35. Haven't done any work on the special H35 bogies yet though. But I will if people are interested. Should be intereting. The engine deck might be a bit much at this stage though. Niels ____________________________________________
Roy A. Schlicht
(Login schlichtr) Missing-Lynx m em bers 76.28.243.12
Well the engine deck... is the major difference between the two. I hope it comes along. Roy
Septem ber 20 2012, 10:16 PM
Greg Harker
(Login ghark er) Missing-Lynx m em bers 64.253.145.90
Cast Them
Septem ber 20 2012, 12:16 PM
You could have a mold made from these and get resin copies made. I would buy them. Greg
Niels Henkemans
re:
Hello Greg, I've considered casting them before... but not until ater I had designed them. Casting will not be impossible, but some parts are very complex and making a good mold will be very difficult. As Pat pointed out earlier in this thread, the printed parts can also be sold through the printing companies. Since I've no plans of starting a resin company, this might be the easiest way to make them available to others. Niels ____________________________________________
Greg Harker
(Login ghark er) Missing-Lynx m em bers 64.253.145.90
Re: re: Hi Neils
I was thinking you could sell them to another company as masters. It would keep the cost down going to resin. Either way I am very interested in this if and when it comes to market. Greg
michele novara
(Login novaram i) Missing-Lynx m em bers
What type of 3D printer ...
11 / 15
Constructive Comments Discussion Group: Updating my Bronco H39 - 2012 style Missing-Lynx m em bers 79.44.207.168 have you used ?
21/09/2012
Thank you michele

Niels Henkemans
re:
Hello Michelle, I haven't done the actual printing myself. The machines are too expensive for that. I've used Shapeways to have these printed and they were produced in a material they call 'Frosted Ultra Detail'. It might be worth it to check their website. They have very helpful people and a good forum as well. ____________________________________________
emanuel morales (Zeke)

(Login m aultier) Missing-Lynx m em bers 186.123.133.44
Amazing work!!! I have some questions for you: What program of design you use? What type of printer you use? What is the "master" to th pinter use for the new parts?
I can seem some 3d printers but never seen one with this type of detail. your work is really amazing and is nice to know why the model of bronco is ver bad. cheers.
Niels Henkemans
re: Hi Zeke, thank you for the nice words.
- I'm using Sketchup. Maybe not the most obvious programm, but it is easy to learn and free. It's made some improvements since I started to use it in 2005 and is fairly intuitive. - the master is a .dae or .stl file. Sketchup can produce .dae files and other programs can translate those into .stl. That type of file seem to be easier to check for mistakes, which is why most of my uploads are done in that format. - This level of detail cannot (yet) be achieved with affordable printers (home use). I'm not sure what these specific printers cost, but I would guess it would be a couple of hundred thousand dollars. This is why I'm using a company to print them for me. Shapeways focusses on individual users and make this technology available for simple guys like me. I've written a thread in the post on problem with the Bronco, Heller and Trumpeter kits. If you like I could look up the link for you. Niels ____________________________________________
Brent Watterson
(Login Q ueeg) Missing-Lynx m em bers 118.93.121.179
Fantastic work
I have access to a 3D printer but not the time or skills with Autocad or similiar to produce the designs. Awesome work showcasing what the technology can do within the hobby matey ....
http://www.network54.com/Forum/110741/thread/1348148756/Updating+my+Bronco+H39+-+2012+style 12 / 15
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cheers Brent
http://houseofqueeg.wordpress.com/
Niels Henkemans
re: Hello Brent. Glad to hear you're enjoying these photos.
Skills are not really the problem for most designs. Time is. If I had needed these parts for just one vehicle I wouldn't have done it, and scratched them instead. But I wanted to use them on 4-5 vehicles, which made this a good choice after all. (And I can share them with other people too) Before using that 3D printer it would be wise to check its resolution. Many are not very detailed (yet) and it's often better to send your designs to a company that has the latest kind of printers. In a few years this will probably change and the quality of most printers will be enough. At this moment we're not there yet though. ____________________________________________
Ian Howes
(Login ianhowes) Missing-Lynx m em bers 87.164.107.5
Great job
That's a great job you've done there. I would like to know what the lot cost as I have also a few parts I want made. Thanks for showing them. Ian.
Niels Henkemans
re:
Hi Ian, both sets cost around 30-35 euro, so quite similar to AM sets of a similar content. Let me know if you have any additional questions and I'll see if I can help out. Niels ____________________________________________
Dave Coyne
(Login davecoyne300) Missing-Lynx m em bers 109.255.223.5
So, how much would it cost.
Very useful tool but how much did your parts cost is what I'm wondering. I can't see your average modeller buying a 3D printer when someone like yourself having particular skills could become a AM producer. Why, when i can buy a kit for 40 euro would i spend thousands, ( in the future maybe hundreds) on a printer which presumably needs me to also purchase the printing materials, what ever that may be, plus the cad program. I think this is a really useful tool, but i also think it will be a long time before injection plastic kits go out of fashion.
Niels Henkemans
re:
13 / 15
Constructive Comments Discussion Group: Updating my Bronco H39 - 2012 style (Login jpz4) Missing-Lynx m em bers 62.194.131.10 Hi Dave, each of
21/09/2012
these sets costs around 30-35 euros. Not cheap, but still fairly similar to an AM set and as the designer you decied what's in them. Buying a 3D printer for sets like these is not something an individual should/can do yet. The printers you can buy for home-uses, produce a much lower quality. Professional printers start at tens of thousands of dollars and I believe the printer that produced my parts coasts several hundred thousand dollars. Because of the cost but especially the time it takes to print a single batch (they produce orders from many, many customers at the same time), this technolgoy is not yet ready to mass produce items. They're working on it. But until they figure it out, plastic kits will continue to rule the modelling scene. ____________________________________________
Benjamin de Groot
(Login benjam in_de_groot) Missing-Lynx m em bers 86.82.246.4
You got the engine sorted out too?
Great to see that you got so many parts sorted in the end. It looks really amazing! The fan is a thing of beauty! She`s gonna be superb History is Cynical
Niels Henkemans
re:
Hi Benjamin, yes I finally figured out most of the parts. The electrical system need to be done as well as all the drive belts. But apart from that I'm very pleased. Finally something that looks like a proper Hotchkiss engine compartment. Niels ____________________________________________
Mark Pieters
(Login TristarNut) Missing-Lynx m em bers 76.115.73.75
I've a few questions.. Great job by the way, some Q's come to mind: 1) What kind of plastic (is it even plastic) is this printed from? 2) What kind of glue to you use to assemble the parts?
3) Can you air brush some of those parts (namely those wonderful bogeys) and post pictures please? The reason I ask that last one is that it's hard to see all the detail with the plastic being clear like that. Again, fantastic! Thanks for exploring that technology, I'm sure there are plenty of very interested modelers out there following your progress. ~Mark
william carls
(Login m r_treadwell) Missing-Lynx m em bers 76.23.235.186
re: updating It is so very humbling to find you are light years behind the the building curve. Beautiful parts. It used to be printed parts needed a lot of clean up
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and filling etc. These look like semi clear parts on a sprue, ready to go. AMAZING best regards, william
Marlin Henderson
(Login MarlinHenderson) Missing-Lynx m em bers 75.146.89.195
banding or stepping?
Is the layering visible when painted? I have had pieces printed in the past that have an obvious stepping pattern. Thanks.
David Harmer
(Login nzdavidh) Missing-Lynx m em bers 114.77.162.202
Amazed
Mind blowing stuff, looking forward to seeing how the parts look when painted. David's Model Pages on Facebook -https://www.facebook.com/modelscale
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Updating my Bronco H39 - 2012 style