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DEPARTMENT OF STATE
UNITED STATES INFORMATION AGENCY

Office of Inspector General

Memorandum of Conversation

Visas for the 9/11 Hijackers NFATC-SA-42 2/5/03

Subject Office Date

Bert Kriee and Kevin Hrvnkow

Official Inspector

Mr. Krieg stated that the purpose of the interview was to respond to a congressional inquiry
requesting that OIG report on visa issuances to 9/11 hijackers. He added that OIG's response
would not identify specific visa adjudicators.

Ms. Zlatna Badrich, Labor Management Attorney of the American Foreign Service Association,
accompanied) [at the latter's request.

1. For the record, please tell me your name, present rank and position.

2. Were you the officer who issued a nonimmigrant visa to (name of applicant) on (date) at
(name of post)?

I [examined the copy of the visa application of Hani Hanjour who was issued a NIV
on Nov. 2, 1997 at Jeddah. She stated that she was the issuing officer and that she recognized
her own handwriting.

3. Is this a copy of the application?

She affirmed that it was.

If no application is available, then why is it not available?

N/A

4. Did you check the CLASS lookout system for his name, and what were the results?

She indicated that she was always very meticulous and always checked CLASS. "I was always
very thorough," she added. There were no "hits" - nothing came up that would have prompted
her to send out a cable and make further inquiries.

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5. Did you interview this individual prior to issuing the visa?

She said she did.

6. If not, why not?

N/A

7. What was the policy at post regarding personal appearance waivers?

Either she or another consular officer would decide on a case-by-case basis whether to interview
or not. She said a relatively high percentage (about 50-60%) of the Saudi's were interviewed hi
person. She interviewed a lot of applicants that were enrolled or wanted to enroll in flight
schools. This was not unusual at the time in Jeddah because Saudia Airlines was headquartered
there.

8. How were you informed of this policy? hi writing? Orally? By whom?

She didn't remember specifically; she thought her colleagues probably spoke to her along the
lines of "this is how we do it here."

9. Were you personally given any instructions by your supervisors or superiors about asking
applicants to appear in person for an interview?

No.

10. Did a travel agency submit the case?

No. Travel agencies were not used, but messengers submitted some applications to the post.

11. If so, what was the policy at post regarding travel agency procedures?

N/A

12. How were you informed of this policy? In writing? Orally? By whom?

N/A

13. Would a personal interview of this applicant have helped you decide his eligibility for a visa,
and why?

She did personally interview Hani Hanjour but didn't recall whether more time with this
individual would have made a difference in reaching her decision.

14. If you interviewed this individual, what details can you recall?

She did not recall this specific case.

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15. Did he present any documents in support of his application?

The applicant must have had a passport, an 1-20 training request form and some cash. She did
not recall the specific documents.

16. If so, can you recall any details of the documents that were presented?

No, she did not.

17. What specific elements obtained from the interview or the application convinced you that
this applicant was entitled to a visa?

She did not recall the specifics of this case, except thatfHanjourlwas traveling alone and his
spoken English ability matched the requirements of hisl-20. His financial documents were also
good.

18. Did you have sufficient time to conduct the interview or review the application to your
satisfaction? If not, how much time would you have preferred?

Longer time with an applicant is always better, but she felt that she probably had enough time to
adjudicate the visa.

19. If there were sufficient consular officers at post to conduct personal interviews of every visa
applicant, would there have been sufficient interview windows, work space and support
staff?

At the time, interview facilities were adequate. It was extremely busy during the summer
months and we could have used more help, but in November 1997 it was slow and we had
enough staff.

20. What other elements would have helped you make a better decision regarding the applicant's
eligibility for a visa and why?

| |felt that she had made a good decision at the time. She had followed the
procedures that were in place at that time.

21. Did your superiors ever discuss the post's NW refusal rates in general with you?

They were never discussed.

22. Did your superiors ever counsel you to raise or lower your own refusal rate?

/ No.

23. Did you or anyone in the consular section conduct NW return validation studies? If not, why
/ not?

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Studies were carried out anytime she felt they were needed. OneoftheFSNs was responsible
for the studies which were done for both TCNs and Saudis.] [often reviewed those
cases when applicants didn't return and used them as lessons learned,

24. Hdw well did you speak and read Arabic?

25. Did the Department train you in this language?

No, although she is currently in training fbtj Jin anticipation of her next assignment.

26. Do you consider that the training you received in the Department to carry out your visa
adjudication responsibilities was adequate?

The Department trained her reasonably well, but there was not overlap with her predecessor.
However, her predecessor was available for consultations in Riyadh and by telephone.

27. If not, what additional training would have enabled you to do a better job?

L _pelieved that it would have been better to have had more time at the interview
window. She learned visa adjudication on the job by listening in on her two other colleagues
while they were conducting interviews.

28. What other comments would you like to make at this time regarding this visa case?

The excellent senior FSN at Jeddah always marked up applications with a red pen to frlert Ms.
| ~|to anomalies. For example, applicants) [would
have their applications highlighted by the FSN. It would also have been better if she had more
time to carefully read through each of the applications she had to adjudicate.! I
would have devoted more time to studying the less essential questions related to occupation, U.S.
address, length of stay, etc.

L J stated that she took her visa adjudication responsibilities very seriously. She
added that information in the CLASS lookout system was essential in spotting terrorists and
criminals. Without a CLASS "hit" to warn her, she could not readily determine whether an
applicant might be a terrorist.

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