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FD-302 (Rev. 10-6-95) CnKTCTTIVR Al-F«dl

OJtJA^I^-H-•* » ^ /% I*** * ^ —

3501-16
-1 -
'FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION

Date of transcription 5/ ^ 5 / 9 8

On 4/2/98 and 4/9/98, a Source, who is in a position to

testify/ was interviewed at an undisclosed location. Present
during the interview on 4/2/98 were FBI Special Agents
New York City Police
Detective and Assistant United States Attorney
(Southern District of New York) KEN KARAS. Present during the
4/9/98 interview were FBI Special Agent -— •
— and AUSA KEN KARAS.
The topic covered in this interview was an individual
known to the Source as ABU RIDA AL-SURI. The Source advised that
ABU RIDA's true name is NIDAL (LNU) and that he is originally
from Syria. The Source describes ABU RIDA as now being
approximately 50 years of age, light colored skin, dark brown
hair, average height, western looking and wears glasses. The
Source last saw ABU RIDA in Khartoum, Sudan where he (ABU RIDA)
owned the AL-IKHLAS INTERNATIONAL COMPANY which, among other
things, produced honey and various sweets in places such as
Caroline City in Sudan. The Source advised that this was an
import/export company that was actually owned by OSAMA BIN LADIN.

The Source first met ABU RIDA in approximately 1988 in

the JAJI area (front line) of Afghanistan just after the Source
received military training. The Source advised that ABU RIDA was
working for OSAMA BIN LADIN and was purchasing weapons and
explosives from the Pakistani areas of TORHAM (PH), TEREMANGEL
(PH), and LANDICOTTER (PH). The Source advised that these were
free market areas where weapons were sold during the
Soviet/Afghan war. The Source further advised that ABU RIDA was
also involved in procuring weapons from the United States that
were originally given to the Pakistani government which dispersed
these weapons to the various factions fighting in Afghanistan.

The Source advised that ABU RIDA was a member of the

Syrian terrorist group known as the ABU MUSAB AL-SURI GROUP. The
Source also advised that ABU RIDA was a member of OSAMA BIN
LADIN's AL-QAIDA and ISLAMIC ARMY. The Source heard that ABU

investigation on 4/2/98, etc at UNDISCLOSED LOCATION

File # — : _ ——— Dale dictated 5/15/98

•) _ "
by ~ ~~ ' "—~ _ _ •- _ . . '

This document contains neither rcconiriieixlaiions nor conclusions of the FBI it is the property of the FBI and is loaned to your agency;
it and iis contents are not to he distributed outside your agency.

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RIDA was a United States citizen who went to Afghanistan from the
United States and at one time saw ABU RIDA with a blue colored
passport which the Source beleived to be a United States
passport. The Source believes that ABU RIDA was trained as an '
engineer. The Source further advised that ABU RIDA speaks
Arabic, Chinese, Farsi and English. The Source advised that ABU
RIDA knew both WADI EL-HAGE and TAKER and that this relationship
may have originated in the United States.

The Source advised that during the Afghan war, ABU RIDA
was a very high ranking member in OSAMA BIN LADIN's group and
when AL-QAIDA was formed, he (ABU RIDA) was on the SHURA COUNCIL.
While on the SHURA COUNCIL, ABU RIDA represented both AL-QAIDA
and the ABU MUSAB AL-SURI GROUP. The Source advised that ABU
RIDA recruited his best friend, DR. MUBARAK AL-DURI, into AL-
QAIDA. The Source advised that AL-DURI is from Iraq and that he
(AL-DURI) managed BIN LADIN's AL-SAMAL AL-MUBARAKA COMPANY.

The Source advised that after the 1989 coup d'etat in

Sudan, ABU RIDA went to Sudan prior to OSAMA BIN LADIN to set up
the AL-QAIDA organization in Khartoum. Before going to Sudan,
ALI OSMAN MOHAMED TAHA, GHAZI SALAH AL-DIN, DR. SHARAF AL-DIN ALI
MUHKTAR and DR. ABDULLAH MOHAMED YOUSIF met with BIN LADIN and
others in Peshawar to discuss BIN LADIN and AL-QAIDA relocating
to Sudan. According to the Source, this was an example of how
the NATIONAL ISLAMIC FRONT (NIF) wanted to help BIN LADIN and his
group. The Source advised that BIN LADIN had a pre-existing
relationship with the NIF through SHARAF AL-DIN ALI MUHKTAR who
ran the DAWA ISLAMIC ORGANIZATION (MONANTHA-MAT AL-DAWA AL-
ISLAMIA) during the early 1980's in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia.

The Source advised that when ABU RIDA came to Sudan

after the coup d'etat in June of 1989 he resided in a BIN LADIN
guesthouse for the first year. The Source advised that the first
group in Sudan for AL-QAIDA was ABU RIDA, ABU HOMAM AL-SAUDI,
ISAN AL-MADANI, ABU AL-HASSAN AL-SUDANI(true name ALI HAROUN) ,
and ABU NAAS AL-SAUDI. The Source advised that ABU NAAS AL-SAUDI
is of Moroccan descent.

The Source advised that in return for allowing AL-QAIDA

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to set up in Sudan, the NIF wanted BIN LADIN to help the NIF
build roads, ie. Damazien and Kormuk, and to help train the NIF's
POPULAR DEFENSE FORCES (PDF). According to the Source, BIN LADIN
and AL-QAIDA received what they wanted - a good environment to
export Jihad.

The Source advised that while in Sudan (approximately

1990), ABU RIDA was purchasing a lot of AK-47's, RPG's and light
machine guns from China through BIN LADIN's AL-HIDRA CONSTRUCTION
COMPANY for AL-QAIDA and the NIF/PDF at BIN LADIN's request. The
Source further advised that ABU RIDA also purchased weapons using
BIN LADIN money for Algeria. The Source advised that the weapons
were given to SAYAF AL-LIBI, ABU YASIR SAREAL (Algerian) and KARI
SEB (Algerian). The Source believes that SAYAF AL-LIBI and ABU
YASIR SAREAL helped get money and the weapons to Algeria through
Chad and Niger by possibly using cars and/or trucks. The Source
recalls that circa 1993, the Moroccan authorities arrested two
ISLAMIC ARMY members who were transporting weapons from Morocco
to Algeria.

The Source advised that ABU RIDA also purchased weapons

and explosives for BIN LADIN which were sent to Yemen for SAIF
ISLAM AL-JANUBI and ABU UZWAN AL-YEMENI. The Source advised that
ABU RIDA also traveled to Czechoslovakia to purchase explosives
such as TNT, C-4, and a third type of explosive which the Source
did not recall but described as white, heavy and gummy in
texture. The Source also advised that he recalled ABU RIDA
traveling to China in possibly November of 1990 to purchase guns.
The Source further advised that ABU RIDA traveled to Honk Kong
and Japan to help ABU HAJER AL-IRAQI purchase communications
equipment for the Sudanese intelligence offices.

The Source advised that weapons were normally shipped

to Port Sudan to the North Port (Military Base) and subsequently
trucked to the main military base in Khartoum. The Source
advised that most of the explosives went to the AL-HIDRA
CONSTRUCTION COMPANY in which 40% stayed with BIN LADIN and 60%
went to the NIF. The Source advised that ABU RIDA's Sudanese
military contact was MUQADDAM (LT. COLONEL) ABD AL-BASIT HAMZA,
an NIF member. Some of the weapons and explosives were stored

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to set up in Sudan, the NIF wanted BIN LADiN to help the NIF
build roads, ie. Damazien and Kormuk, and to help train the NIF's
POPULAR DEFENSE FORCES (PDF). According to the Source, BIN LADIN
and AL-QAIDA received what they wanted - a good environment to
export Jihad.

The Source advised that while in Sudan (approximately

1990), ABU RIDA was purchasing a lot of AK-47's, RPG's and light
machine guns from China through BIN LADIN's AL-HIDRA CONSTRUCTION
COMPANY for AL-QAIDA and the NIF/PDF at BIN LADIN's request. The
Source further advised that ABU RIDA also purchased weapons using
BIN LADIN money for Algeria. The Source advised that the weapons
were given to SAYAF AL-LIBI, ABU YASIR SAREAL (Algerian) and KARI
SEE (Algerian). The Source believes that SAYAF AL-LIBI and ABU
YASIR SAREAL helped get money and the weapons to Algeria through
Chad and Niger by possibly using cars and/or trucks. The Source
recalls that circa 1993, the Moroccan authorities arrested two
ISLAMIC ARMY members who were transporting weapons from Morocco
to Algeria.

The Source advised that ABU RIDA also purchased weapons

and explosives for BIN LADIN which were sent to Yemen for SAIF
ISLAM AL-JANUBI and ABU UZWAN AL-YEMENI. The Source advised that
ABU RIDA also traveled to Czechoslovakia to purchase explosives
such as TNT, C-4, and a third type of explosive which the Source
did not recall but described as white, heavy and gummy in
texture. The Source also advised that he recalled ABU RIDA
traveling to China in possibly November of 1990 to purchase guns.
The Source further advised that ABU RIDA traveled to Honk Kong
and Japan to help ABU HAJER AL-IRAQI purchase communications
equipment for the Sudanese intelligence offices.

The Source advised that weapons were normally shipped

to Port Sudan to the North Port (Military Base) and subsequently
trucked tc the main military base in Khartoum. The Source
advised that most of the explosives went to the AL-HIDRA
CONSTRUCTION COMPANY in which 40% stayed with BIN LADIN and 60%
went to the NIF. The Source advised that ABU RIDA's Sudanese
military contact was MUQADDAM (LT. COLONEL) ABD AL-BASIT HAMZA,
an NIF member. Some of the weapons and explosives were stored

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at a guesthouse run by DR. TAJAL SIRR MUSTAFA, a high ranking NIF

member and high ranking government official. The Source advised
that MUSTAFA later became the Minister of Trade and Industry and
later a member of Parliament.

The Source advised that ABU RIDA would travel with an

Official Sudanese passport.

The Source advised that some of the weapons purchased

by ABU RIDA , ie. AK-47's, RPG's and mortars, went to the
ERITREAN JIHAD GROUP run by SHEIKH ARAFA and MOHAMED KHAYR. The
Source further advised that ABU RIDA traveled to Bosnia and
Croatia. The Source heard that ABU RIDA helped ABDELRAHMAN AL-
DOSARI and ADIL AL-BABTEN purchase weapons in Cologne, Germany
for Bosnia. The Source advised that ABU RIDA also traveled to
Jordan to see ABU AKRAM from the terrorist group known as the ABU
ALI GROUP regarding the movement of weapons.

The Source advised that the explosives he (Source)

helped move to Port Sudan from Khartoum were purchased by ABU
RIDA. According to the Source, these explosives were to be used
against the US military in Saudi Arabia, among other places.

The Source further advised that ABU RIDA purchased what

he (Source) described as detonators and timers from both Hong
Kong and Japan.

The Source advised that he (Source) heard that ABU RIDA

also traveled to Italy to try and purchase a counterfeit machine
and to obtain false documents, ie. passports. The Source does
not know if in fact ABU RIDA was able to obtain the counterfeit
machine or documents. The Source advised that ABU RIDA also
traveled to Yemen with TARIK (LNU), an associate of ABDEL MAJID
ZINDANI. The Source also advised that ABU RIDA traveled to Iran
with ABU UBAIYDAH AL-BANSHIRI, ABU HAJER AL-IRAQI and ABU AYYOUB
AL-ARARI. The Source recalls ABU RIDA traveling to Iran at least
once and heard that he (ABU RIDA) traveled to Iran often. The
Source advised that ABU RIDA traveled to Iran after the 8 ISLAMIC
ARMY members were trained in south Lebanon by HIZBOLLAH. The
Source advised that USAMA LUBANANI told him (Source) that ABU

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Continuation of FD-302 of SOURCE . Or 4 / 2 / 9 8 , 6tC .

RIDA has a strong relationship with HIZBOLLAH.

The Source advised that ABU RIDA had a relationship

with IMAD MUGANIA (PH) . The Source advised that MUGANIA is a
military HIZBOLLAH me'nber from Lebanon who acted as a liaison
between HIZBOLLAH and the ISLAMIC ARMY. The Source advised that
MUGANIA was also responsible for arranging the training in
Lebanon.

The Source advised that ABU RIDA also had a very good
relationship with SHEIKH AL-NOMANI, the Iranian religious
official responsible for the Horn of Africa who resides in
Khartoum.

The Source advised that he (Source) sometimes worked

for ABU RIDA in Sudan as a courier and driver.

The Source advised that ABU RIDA told him (Source) that
he (ABU RIDA) and OSAMA MARGHANI 'tried to purchase uranium and
were hustled out of $100,000.

The Source further advised that he (Source), ABU RIDA

and others were involved in an operation to obtain uranium for
OSAMA BIN LADIN and the ISLAMIC ARMY. The Source advised that
sometime in 1993, he was called by ABU DIJANA AL-YEMENI, a manger
at the TABA INVESTMENT COMPANY. ABU DIJANA told the Source that
a former Sudanese military officer during the JAAFAR NIMEIRI
regime, MUQADDAM (LT. COL.) SALAH ABDALAL MOBURK (PH) , had
uranium. The Source was told by ABU DIJANA to see ABU RIDA for
more details. The Source advised that he then went to ABU RIDA' s
office at the AL-IKHLAS COMPANY. . The Source advised that ABU
RIDA told him LJ check out the story about the uranium. The
Source asked ABU RIDA if their was an NIF connection to the
uranium and was advised by ABU RIDA that their was none.

The Source advised that he then went to FAISAL MOHAMED

ABDALLAH AL-FADL for help to locate MOBURK. FAISAL MOHAMED
ABDALLAH AL-FADL told the Source to see AL-FADL SHA-ADIN ABDELLAH
AL-FADL because he knows MOBURK. The Source and AL-FADL SHA-ADIN
ABDELLAH AL-FADL (hereto referred to as AL-FADL) . went to see

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MOBURK. The Source advised that MOBURK was not comfortable

talking in front of him and therefore, MOBURK talked with AL-FADL
alone. The Source advised that AL-FADL settled things down and
left with the understanding that he (Source) and AL-FADL were to
meet DR. SALAH AL-SHEIKH at AL-SHEIKH's house in Khartoum North.
The Source and AL-FADL met AL-SHEIKH a few days later. During
this or a subsequent meeting, AL-SHEIKH provided the Source with
a one page document about the uranium. The Source advised that
this document contained the country of origin, South Africa, and
what appeared to be a serial number. The Source recalls seeing
"SER." followed by a series of numbers. The Source advised that
AL-SHEIKH asked him how they intended to check the uranium and
advised the Source that they did not want the money in Sudan.
The Source further advised that AL-SHEIKH requested the money to
be in US dollars and that he (AL-SHEIKH) would provide the Source
with a bank account number located outside Sudan.

The Source advised that he then took the document to

ABU RIDA. The Source advised that ABU RIDA took a copy of the
document and told the Source to take the document to ABU HAJER
AL-IRAQI. The Souce believes that ABU HAJER AL-IRAQI is a higher
ranking ISLAMIC ARMY member then ABU RIDA. The Source advised
that he preceded to ABU HAJER AL-IRAQI's house and showed him the
document. ABU HAJER AL-IRAQI told the Source to continue the
operation and that he (AL-IRAQI) would talk to ABU RIDA. The
Source advised that the next day he went to see ABU RIDA. ABU
RIDA told the Source that sending money outside Sudan was not a
problem. ABU RIDA requested the Source to find out how much
money AL-SHEIKH wanted for the uranium. ABU RIDA further advised
the Source that they (ISLAMIC ARMY) would get equipment from
Nairobi, Kenya to test the uranium.

The Source advised that he and AL-FADL went to see AL-

SHEIKH and told him (AL-SHEIKH) that sending the money outside
Sudan was not a problem and that they (ISLAMIC ARMY) will send
equipment from Kenya to test the uranium. AL-SHEIKH advised the
Source that the price for the uranium would be 1.5 million US
dollars to be sent outside Sudan and $100,000 US dollars
commission which would stay in Sudan. The Source advised that he
then told ABU RIDA the conditions of the deal and ABU RIDA agreed

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to the terms. The Source advised that he and AL-FADL then went
to MOBURK's office and advised him that the deal was going well
and that they ::eeded to see the uranium. MOBURK told AL-FADL .
that they can see the uranium at 10:00 AM the following day. The
Source advised that he was told by AL-FADL to meet at another
location in the Khartoum Market on JAMBORIA STREET. The Source
advised that'he and ABU RIDA met AL-FADL and BASHEER (LNU) at the
Khartoum Market. The Source advised that BASHEER was a Sudanese
male who lived in Greece and was involved in shipping. The
Source advised that BASHEER then drove them all through the BARI
section to the BETALMAL section of Omdurman to a house. The
Source advised that the four of them went into a house ~and met
three unknown individuals, one of which brought in a bag
containing a cylinder which was shown to them. The Source
advised that the four of them left and that he (Source) and AL-
FADL drove ABU RIDA back to his office. The Source advised that
a few days later he went to s'ee ABU RIDA to get an update.
During this meeting, ABU RIDA told the Source that everything is
fine and that he (ABU RIDA) would be strictly dealing with AL-
FADL from this point on. The Source advised that a few days
later, ABU RIDA gave him a $10,000 USD commission for his
efforts. The Source advised that he never found out if ABU RIDA
and AL-FADL ever bought the uranium. The Source further advised
that ABU RIDA always told the Source not to tell anyone about the
uranium deal and the $10,000 USD commission, especially MOHAMED
AL-NALFI SULIEMAN.

The Source advised that it was the NIF's idea to bring

BIN LADIN and the Iranians together. The Source advised that the
ISLAMIC ARMY's technique in explosives changed after the
relationship with Irdii began and 'when ISLAMIC ARMY members
started to be trained in south Lebanon. The Source advised that
explosives training in Afghanistan had basic military objectives
in mind. After south Lebanon, explosives training was more
structured toward small teams creating large explosions with the
intended end result to be the destruction of buildings. The
Source advised that ABU RIDA was the individual who purchased the
explosives through the AL-HIDRA FOR CONSTRUCTION COMPANY that
ended up with IBN AL-MUBARAK. The Source believes that these
explosives were used in the KHOBAR TOWER bombing.

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The Source advised that IBN AL-MUBARAK had a very

strong relationship with the SHIA of eastern Saudi Arabia. The
Source advised that BIN LADIN and his SHURA COUNCIL wanted a
stronger SHIA-SUNNI relationship to fight the common enemy - the
United States in the Gulf area. The Source advised that this
relationship was basically a secret one because of the historical
differences between the two sects. The Source advised that if
this relationship became widely known, support for BIN LADIN and
the ISLAMIC ARMY would deminish. After the relationship between
BIN LADIN and Iran got started, the relationship between the
SUNNI and SHIA got better.

The Source advised that ABU RIDA, ABU HOMAM AL-SAUDI,

ABU NAAS AL-SAUDI, ABU AL-HASSAN AL-SUDANI (true name ALI HAROUN)
, and EHSAN AL-MADANI started the WADI AQIQ COMPANY in the
beginning of 1990.

The Source advised that he worked directly for ABU

RIDA for approximately one year at both the WADI AQIQ and AL-
IKHLAS INTERNATIONAL companies.

The Source advised that he heard (does not remember

from who) that ABU RIDA was the individual who purchased the
weapons, i.e. AK-47's, RPG's, and mortars for camps headed by ABU
HAFS AL-KHIBIR, ABU TALHA AL-SUDANI, ABU ISLAM AL-MASSRI and ABU
HASSAN AL-YEMENI in Somali outside of Mogadishu. The Source
advised that ABU HASSAN AL-YEMENI worked for the SAIF AL-GANUBI
who had his own terrorist group under the ISLAMIC ARMY. The
Source advised that ABU TALHA AL-SUDANI was in South Lebanon and
received mortar training by HIZBOLLAH.

The Source advised that ABU RIDA would also travel to

England tc deal with fanancial/banking matters involving letters
of credit.

The Source advised that ABU RIDA had a Syrian,

Pakistani, and Official Sudanese passport. The Source heard that
ABU RIDA had a US passport.

Finally, the Source believes that ABU JUDA went to

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Afghanistan in 1985 from the US.

SNY101-0128