Professional Documents
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Dear students, faculty and staff at the Queens University Faculty of Law, The following is the final report of student opinion regarding the proposed enrolment expansion by the 2013-2014 Strategic Planning Committee at the Queens University Faculty of Law. It is a summary of preliminary student opinions shared with us via e-mail and social media, a student consultation on October 8th, 2013, the results of an opinion poll, and comments shared via e-mail and through the poll after the consultation. The poll had a response rate of 313 students, or 60% of the student body of 524 JD students. 69% or 217 were against the proposal, 22% or 68 were for it, and 9%, or 28, were undecided. 112 of those students also chose to share opinions with us in the comments section, giving us over 21 pages of feedback through the poll. Thank you to all participants and to those who took the time to provide feedback at various stages throughout the consultation process. As such, the Queens Law Students Society is able to accurately assess student opinion. Students are largely against the proposal, with concerns about the school community, quality of education, student support services, and placement rate. A few students cited a conditional for position, contingent on seeing a financial breakdown for the increased revenue. Students for the proposal cite reasons of expanded program offerings, reputation and access to legal education. This report aims to distill the feedback provided into various themes to accurately summarize the reasons for and against the proposal. For answers to some of the concerns listed, please also refer to the FAQ attached to the end of this document. This report concludes the student consultation process. The final Faculty Board vote is to be held on November 29th. The results of the student poll, while not determinative, will be used to guide and inform the votes of Faculty Board representatives. Whatever the result of that vote, the LSS will take a further active role in leading student consultation throughout the process. We are incredibly pleased with the level of engagement on this issue, and hope to see similar involvement on this and other issues, going forward. Ultimately, the Law Students Society represents the voice of students, and we endeavor to do that in the most transparent and democratic way. If there are any questions or concerns regarding this report, please dont hesitate to contact myself at naheed.yaqubian@queensu.ca, or any of your elected student representatives. Kind regards, Naheed Yaqubian, LSS President on behalf of The Queens Law Students Society
Poll Results
As mentioned earlier, 28 students were undecided. Poll results were also divided by year by the LSS Elections Committee: 1L 2L 3L Other Total Yes 16 31 20 1 68 No 69 89 59 217 Undecided 13 10 5 28 Total 98 130 84 1 313
In response to the question, Do you have any other comments, concerns, or questions about this expansion?, 112 of the 313 students that voted provided feedback, spanning 21 pages. Some are anonymously quoted below in the final report. If you would like access to the anonymized, raw data of the poll, it is available in hard copy in the LSS office. If you have any questions about the methodology of the poll, please feel free to contact Arielle Kaplan, Chair of the LSS Elections Committee, at arielle.kaplan@queensu.ca.
School Community
Concerns about the school community were frequently brought up by students, even after the October 8th consultation. Many students mentioned that they chose Queens Law over other schools because of the small class sizes and student support, both in first year and upper years. Academic concerns were also mentioned, such as competitiveness, the complicating factor being that we grade on a curve. One student mentioned that the quality of relationships you have with your professors, with your colleagues, and opportunities to get to know each other positively would be negatively affected by this expansion.
Even though my legal career is only a few weeks old, its already apparent the important role that this tight-knit community plays in the student experience.
Students thought an expansion would lead to less time on campus, less interaction with the school, less attachment, [and] less donations in the long run. This may lead to an increase in anonymity, leading to a decrease in attachment to the school community from alumni, meaning less donations in the long run. Students who have attended schools out West, abroad and in the United States all pointed to staggering differences that resulted from the difference in class size. The relationships that students have with each other are also at issue. Ultimately, students felt that admitting more students would lead to more competition and less cooperation and teamwork, negatively affecting not only the student community, but also the quality of the academic experience.
In terms of research profile, students pointed out that the student body is a large source of research, with one student of the opinion that Queens reduces us again to making to meaningful contribution in terms of research. Students view Queens as a preparatory school for professionals, and are concerned that the vocational aspect of the school is getting lost amidst other concerns. One individual mentioned that what we really need are practitioners, and several other students agreed that practitioners are some of the best lecturers and professors at Queens Law. As these would cost less than hiring new, full-time faculty, students anticipate a higher quality of education from a broader array of choices. Students were concerned about the impact that the proposed expansion will have on the accessibility of extra-curriculars for students in all years. Concerns were raised about moots and clinical programs, and increasing competitiveness in access to these opportunities. There were questions about how many clinical courses this tuition revenue will help fund, as well as competition. One student was wary that the level of competitivenesss will rise within the class itself in terms of clinics and practical experience programs, because it seems most of the additional revenue the law school will have will go towards the building and faculty costs.
More staff must be divided between more students and make it more difficult to maintain a personal connection with the entire class, pointed out one student. The addition of more staff, although admirable in numbers alone, ultimately rose fears about being lost in bureaucracy or administration when trying to change courses or book rooms. Helen Connop and Julie Banting will not leave their offices until they have run out of ideas of ways to help you, mentioned one student. The approachable and helpful nature of Student Support Services was closely linked to a lower class size, as well as a potential decrease in one-on-one attention. Many students expressed concerns about not expecting the same level of support, which ran contrary to their reasons for choosing Queens Law.
Feedback regarding student placement rates increased dramatically after the October 8th consultation meeting, with many students concerned about the growing articling crisis. The confidence expressed by the Dean and other faculty that we can comfortably place 25, 35 more students is unfounded and to my knowledge unsupported, mentioned one student. Increasing enrollment is simply irresponsible.
Concern about placement rates and the broader legal profession wove through almost every single aspect of feedback. Though not the schools fault, students still felt that the financial difficulty of the institution will lead to difficulty and scrutiny from the public. The school has yet to adequately answer [the] question regarding the excess of law students vs. [the] lack of articling spots. The answer that there are jobs in northern Ontario is inadequate: students never receive career notices for employment opportunities outside of major centres. Another student mentioned that more lawyers are needed in rural areas, but there has been no mention of admitting students who are more interested in rural areas. One student pointed out that when you flood the market, you dilute the value of your degree and your skills, and was concerned about how this expansion, taken together with future possible expansions, would change the value of the Queens Law degree to the students. In the same vein, another student saw the expansion as water[ing] down the caliber of the students graduating each year, making Queens Law the natural pick for mockery on the unnecessary size of graduating classes. Students questioned the idea that Queens would maintain its superior placement rate in comparison to other schools. One wrote, Even if we accept that Queens students are so superior to the students of other schools that [we] will all get positions, that means an extra 35 to 50 students at other schools will not. Ask yourself, is that right, either? This extended to concerns about admissions, with one student pointing out that if they knew about the expansion, they would have gone elsewhere. From a more local perspective, there were concerns that increasing enrolment would foster a hyper-competitive environment, increasing stress among students who compete amongst themselves for articling positions. A student pointed out that arguments in favour of the expansion [seem to be made in] the best interests of the school and not necessarily in the best interests of the students, with a concern that the long-term impact of this decision is not being taken into account. Once the number of students increases, it will never come back down. Several students asked the school to work with LSUC and the province to address the oversupply of lawyers in Ontario before adding more law students.
Students also expressed concerns that our small range of course offerings meant that we could be losing valuable students to other schools. Students pointed out that more faculty would allow for more course offerings, allow for more research assistant positions, and ultimately enhance the educational experience. Offering a broader array of courses would work well to draw new students to the school, as well as to enhance educational opportunities for students that are interested in areas of law that currently have no, or fewer, course opportunities. One student pointed out that until something is done about the tuition freeze, this seems to be the best solution in order to bring in more revenue and hire more faculty. Students also weighed the option of expanded program offerings against the threats facing the faculty, including the articling crisis, concluding that until something is done about the tuition freeze, this seems to be the best solution.
Reputation
Students for the expansion thought it was a great idea. In order to stay competitive, Queens Law needs the funding. Higher enrollment levels at other schools were correlated with higher levels of student programs, leading to a better reputation. This type of growth was seen as necessary to ensure that Queens maintains its reputation, going forward.
Students expressed concern about the reputation of Queens Law, should it continue to stagnate. We desperately need to keep pace in this competitive market, brought up one student. Expanding enrollment was seen as the best way to do this, in order to broaden the number of, and reputation of faculty.
Expanded enrollment would also allow students to gain more clinical opportunities, and ultimately by enhancing the overall quality of education of each student. This would be done by expanding upper-year course selection going forward to better compete with offerings elsewhere, as mentioned earlier. With a modest expansion, students felt that other students were overreacting to what could be a very welcome opportunity for growth and positive change at Queens Law. Students also felt that the concerns about the articling placement rates were overblown in the overall scheme of things, with one student not believing that they will slide because of our rankings.
Conclusion
In sum, students were happy that [we] have been consulted so thoroughly about the expansion. Going forward, a student thinks a task force made up of students and faculty should be established to explore alternatives. Ultimately, students hoped that the decisionmakers respect the opinions of the students, and will represent us well.
academically. Macleans has consistently ranked Queens Law within the top 6 law schools over the past 5 years (and top 3 within the last 2 years), with 50% of this success being owed to Faculty Journal Citations. It is this high regard in academia coupled with the quality of our students that allows Queens Law to have higher placement rates than most Ontario schools, not the quantity of our students. (Christine Innes, VP Academic) Why do we have to hire faculty to teach? Why cant we hire practitioners? While we currently hire practitioners for some courses, this is not ideal considering that most will have to come from Toronto and are travelling long distances to teach a single course during the week. Furthermore, the research that is done by full-time faculty members helps maintain the reputation of Queens Law, which has been reflected in MacLeans yearly rankings. The continual growth of a healthy research environment allows Queens to attract top professors from Canada and around the world. (Ryan Wycherley, 3L Faculty Board Representative) Why cant we look at other revenue sources like expanding the new undergraduate course, Law 201? The expansion of Law 201 should generate some new net revenue for the school; however, it will take at least two to three years to demonstrate that this is a secure and ongoing source of revenue. Once the Faculty can demonstrate this, it may be permitted to use some of this revenue to support the hiring of (at least) one new Faculty member. Accordingly, expanding Law 201 would not enable the Faculty to increase its numbers to its desired level in the near future. (Lisa Pincus, 2L Faculty Board Representative) How will this affect Equity and Career Services? The proposed expansion of students should allow the school to hire five new Faculty members as well as five new administrative staff (which may include Equity and Career Services staff). The school would remain committed to ensuring that the Equity and Career Services staff would have all the resources they need to continue to provide high levels of service to students. (Lisa Pincus, 2L Faculty Board Representative) How will this affect students access to hands-on experience like clinics and moots? An increase in faculty members is likely to increase the amount of faculty involved in the moot court program. It is also likely to expand the clinical programs currently offered through monetary support. Since there would be an additional 70 students in 2L and 3L combined, this means the ratio of applicants to placements may not change. Access to handson experience will not go down, but will either stay proportionally the same or will increase with a greater diversity of opportunities available. (Deepa Negandhi, 3L Faculty Board Representative)