Gas Turbine Operation on LPG Hello everyone.

I would like to ask for your inputs in operating Gas Turbines on LPG. Does anybody have experience with this type of fuel? What are the basic modifications needed to convert from a conventional liquid fuel turbine. 8 months ago Like CommentFollow Flag More jigar parekh, Carlo Raflores like this 32 comments Jump to most recent comments

Follow Steven Steven Kessler Hi Carlo, I know of a peaking plant, in the state of Ohio, USA, that runs on either Propane or Natural gas. The propane is stored on-site, underground in a large cavern, and is vaporized before use. I did the initial training at that site, back in the early 90's. I was back there about 2 years ago to teach another GT course. Plant is running fine and they have no problems firing on propane. 8 months ago Like

Follow Jorge Jorge Roig Which size/type of gas turbine have this plant ? I am interesting until which level of power you can use LPG. small, medium or big GTs? Regards, Jorge 8 months ago Like

Follow Steven Steven Kessler Jorge, I'm assuming you were asking me. They are Industrial machines, originally rated at around 82 MW each. 8 months ago Like

Follow Ahmet Ahmet etin Hi Steven, Does not the difference in terms of air mixture calorific value with LPG or NG? Regards, Ahmet 8 months ago Like

Follow Steven Steven Kessler Hi Ahmet, I'm not the designer, but I don't recall much of a difference in GT output/performance between the two fuels. And, when I was back on-site, about 2 years ago, they didn't indicate a preference for either fuel. The units seem to run just fine on either fuel.

I was more interested in the storing of the propane underground in a sealed cavern. I used to joke about the unfortunate spelunker breaking in there and lighting a flame to see inside... :D

If there's enough interest, I can check with the site for an update. 8 months ago Like

Follow Kevin Kevin Koloff My experience is lng plants having to start on nat gas, then switch to lng. As far as performance you are still looking at the same egt, and work done by the compressor. Usually at least on older machines it was necessary to switch an egt offset during transition 8 months ago Like

Follow Ahmet Ahmet etin Thank you, Steven, for the reply, My main issue I want to say, natural gas-powered gas turbine compressor blades for air flow if run on LPG fuel flow control valve for the fuel you need the software again? LPG or natural gas instead of making no adjustment is obtained satisfies healthy working?

Best Regards. Ahmet 8 months ago Like

Follow Kevin Kevin Koloff All I can say is? 8 months ago Like

Follow Ahmet Ahmet etin Hi Kevin, Your experiences of liquid natural gas and natural gas.I'm talking about;t may be the difference in usage Naturel Gas or Liqufied Petroleum Gas. Best Regards. Ahmet 8 months ago Like

Follow Steven Steven Kessler Hi Ahmet, I'm having a little trouble trying to understand your point or questions? The GT was a standard GT (no DLN burners). It could fire natural gas or propane. they are peaking units. The operating procedures/compressor blading were identical to other gas fired GT's. If there was anything different done in the software, I can't tell you. I was there teaching the guys about the GT, not the software. But when I iwas working for the GT manufacturer I was never led to believe there were any changes in the software when firing on natural gas or propane. 8 months ago Like

Follow Ahmet Ahmet etin Thanks Steven, That was the explanation I was looking for.

8 months ago Like

Follow Carlo Carlo Raflores Does anyone have info on LPG fuel system for the has turbine. Fuel needs to be gasified. What are the equipment needed for this? 8 months ago Like

Follow Steven Steven Kessler The following is a portion of the text from our training materials for the GT that I am familiar with:

To be used as a fuel in the operating gas turbine, the liquid propane must be converted to a vapor. A vaporizer system, consisting of a hot water boiler, circulation pump, vaporizer and superheater, is located at each gas turbine unit to process the liquid propane.

The hot water boiler heats the water-glycol solution which is continuously circulated through the vaporizer and superheater. In the Vaporizer, the liquid propane (supplied at a minimum of 20F) is heated and vaporized to a temperature of 150F. In the Superheater, the propane vapor temperature is raised to approximately 200F. Operating pressure is between 283-312 psig.

The superheated propane vapor is delivered to the gas turbine through the GT Fuel Gas piping via a 3-way valve. Approximately 10% of maximum flow of the propane vapor is recirculated back to the storage tanks or burned at flare. This is done to ensure the propane vapor is at the minimum temperature and pressure (200F/283 psig) before introducing vaporized, superheated propane fuel to the operating GT. This ensures the propane pressure/temperature requirements to the GT are met. If the propane pressure and temperature requirements are not met, or are out of limit, a second 5minute circulation period will occur. 8 months ago Like1

Follow Carlo Carlo Raflores Thanks Steven. That was really very good information. That was a wonderful explanation. I appreciate very much your input. I have never had any experience on LPG fuel. Do you have any idea on how much the vaporizer and delivery system would cost for a 48mw unit? 8 months ago Like

Follow Steven Steven Kessler Carlos, Thank you, we provide technical training for power stations around the world, often we get asked to return to provide repeat sessions or training on other systems at the plant.. I'm sorry, but I have no idea what these systems would cost. 8 months ago Like

Follow Robin Robin Sipe We use vapourized propane on our test cell here in Northern British Columbia, Canada. My vapourizer is a 165m/Btu-Hr unit, that can produce up to 26,000 IGHP on gas turbines, on the cell. It cost me $85,000.00 USD. If you extrapolate this data up to your requirement for 48mW, you can estimate your costs to purchase such a vapourizer. My unit was built by Black, Sivalls & Bryson, (Canada) Ltd. in Nisku, Alberta. Due to the higher Btu content per cubic foot of propane vs. natural gas, you do need to reduce the size of the tip orifices of the fuel injection nozzles to maintain the correct fuel gas injection speed ito the combustors. Natural gas fuel injection nozzles will work, but the fuel gas injection speed will be low, leading to combustor rumble at light off, and possible hot streaking of the combustors. Generally, a 40% reduction in the size of the fuel nozzle tip orifices is close. Steven hit the other valid points right on the head. Depending on the CDP of your turbine unit when operating at design point, this will determine the total pressure and heat load into the propane to keep it in a vapourized state. To be forewarned, it is death to the turbine should the propane partially condense back to liquid state before injection into the combustors. 8 months ago Like1

Follow Steven Steven Kessler Robin,

The Industrial GT I am referring to uses a single gas ring burner. As mentioned in our training materials, the vaporized, superheated propane goes through the same gas piping to the same burner ring as the natural gas. 8 months ago Like

Follow Carlo Carlo Raflores Thanks Robin & Steven. I appreciate the help. 8 months ago Like

Follow Sep Sep van der Linden Steve Kessler has provided good info. If you have a liquid fuel fired machine you need to have dual fuel burners installed (Liquid/ Gas) The Gas manifold will be larger and would need to be installed as part of the burner modifications. The 85 MW Units as I recall had liquid and gas burners, so that LPG could be a back up fuel Liquid fuel. I was originally involved with that project--if you need more data I can search my data bank. Steve can always correct me. 8 months ago Like1

Follow Carlo Carlo Raflores Hi Sep I would appreciate that very much. Thank you. 8 months ago Like

Follow Steven Steven Kessler Thanks very much Sep and great to hear form you. I can't correct too much. I was just the instructor. But that site never had liquid fuel oil operation. It was duel fuel, but only Natural Gas and Propane gas Fuel. 8 months ago Like

Follow Sep Sep van der Linden Steven--Correct. They had to have back-up fuel to NG and Liquid Propane was it. The liquid was pumped at pressure to suit the fuel system then vaporized. 8 months ago Like

Follow Matias H. Matias H. Vallejo D. Any one knows a engineering company that can makes this tipe of work. In order to operate a gas turbine on LPG 3 months ago Like

Follow Kevin Kevin Koloff You are looking at major changes to switch or dual fuel. There are dual fuel machines made for this, but to retrofit would be MAJOR. 3 months ago Like

Follow Steven Steven Kessler Matias, Alstom has experience with GT's operating on LPG. I don't recall the machine/project that I'm familiar with having any major modifications made to it. Or maybe Sep can recommend a solution. Good luck ! 3 months ago Like

Follow Sep Sep van der Linden There are no major changes required--however I have nort seen the type of GT you wish to run on LPG--How about a rating, current configuration, model and year of supply,Where is the machine located ambient , altitude and type of service, as well as current fuel and system. You do not need a Consultant--you need some one who will do the conversion for you. I can help you if you can provide answeres to my questions 3 months ago Like

Follow Kevin Kevin Koloff Well now thats interesting. 3 months ago Like

Follow Kevin Kevin Koloff The way I read Matias question is, is there a company that can convert from NG to LPG. 3 months ago Like

Follow Sep Sep van der Linden Yes --understood .Still need to know what type of machine he wants to convert--then I can advise him of a competant Company to serve the country where the machine is located. 3 months ago Like

Follow Matias H. Matias H. Vallejo D. Sep, We have a PG5341 with MK6 controls. That is currently on diesel fuel an we will convert to NG and/or LPG. Ive the NG conversion and identify the vaporizer but i need a company to do the engineering and set up for LPG. BR, 2 months ago Like Reply privately Flag as inappropriate

Follow Carlo Carlo Raflores Hi Steven,

Did that plant you were talking about that had a vapourizer and superheater also used a compressor or was the supply pressure sufficient?? 1 day ago Like

Follow Carlo Carlo Raflores Hi Matias,

How much was the estimated cost of installing the vaporizer for the LPG?