PUBLIC SERVICE REFORM BREAKFAST The importance of ICT in ensuring that Scotland prospers as a nation, economically and socially.

INTRODUCTION The Centre for Scottish Public Policy (CSPP) invited a wide range of stakeholders to discuss the importance of ICT in ensuring that Scotland prospers as a nation, economically and socially. The CSPP believes that by working together and sharing ideas public reform in Scotland can be innovative and an improvement on the current system. By sharing the same vision of what can be achieved in this area we aim to stimulate the discussion, pushing for a culture change that we believe must take place in order for Scotland to continue to provide the best public services for the people. We would like to thank the Cabinet Secretary, our partners, BT, and all our guests for contributing to what was an inspiring CSPP policy discussion.

Speakers included: Cabinet Secretary, John Swinney Interim Chair of CSPP, Richard Kerley Ross Martin SCDI Brendan Dick, British Telecoms John Downie, SCVO Paul Wheelhouse MSP Maureen Watts MSP

Fiona McLeod MSP Joan McAlpine MSP Chic Brodie MSP Rob Gibson MSP Cllr Willie Gibson Cllr Paul McLennan Cllr Stewart Bell Cllr Norman Work Cllr Brian Collins Cllr Pat Duff Cllr Graham Houston Cllr Bob Constable Luke Boddice Louise Humphrey

The discussion covered the following themes: The public vs. private sector in incorporation of ICT. The social dimension of accessing ICT Social exclusion Procurement Access to information Public sector vs. Private sector

The meeting provided guests with an opportunity to talk about ICT within the public and private sector. Emphasis was placed on the giant leap we have taken in the advancement of ICT as, even 16 years ago not all companies had a desktop pc or even an email account; in a relatively small window weve travelled a huge distance. It was noted that the SNP and other colleagues are involved in the public facing delivery of public services but that they have to face that the commercial side has incorporated ICT better (e.g. in Tesco they can tell you want you might want to buy based on what you have previously bought). There are therefore lessons that the public sector can learn from them. This should be used to better design public services in Scotland. The Scottish Governments Digital Strategy for delivery of public services aims to use the redesign of public services to meet the needs of individuals. It was thought that the public sector could use the idea of intense personalisation to meet the individuals needs as, it could be used for health care services, e.g. not in terms of self diagnosis but to provide people with information on how they can access health services.

The public sector would need to fully embed this innovative system to transform the way we do public services. It was then questioned how we could ensure the availability of public services, and how this could be used as an economic driver in Scotland. In the economic downturn, the Highlands and Islands have bucked the Scottish trend and are doing better than the rest of the country. This was attributed to their access to information technology as it allows local people to sustain their business when previously, they may have had to move to larger urban areas to find work. It was acknowledged that, although this service could be faster, it has helped the economy, and Scotland should continue to encourage the utilisation of this. With increasing globalisation, social media and connectivity there is an amazing opportunity for the public sector to adapt and to be actively involved with businesses that will benefit local communities. The group agreed that this is the duty of public leaders. Scotland needs to be inclusive of access to information technology. Although people were sceptical of the data that suggests Scotland has the exclusion that it does, we need to be mindful of it. Social benefits The opportunity to discuss this topic was welcomed and began with how the social dimension of ICT could benefit Scotland both socially. The Scottish Governments strategy includes a clear message of social benefits and a social agenda and BT is building more pipes to improve connectivity and believes that tablets will be integral in getting those who are socially excluded from information technology online. As higher speed Internet does link to GDP growth, it was then asked how can we drive the economy from here? And with personalised data, how do we manage it and get more data out of it?

Pace of change The rate of change in the private sector is much greater; why? It was questioned whether this was due to competition in the market or the amount of resources available and if we could learn more from public private partnerships? It was thought that there is an opportunity for the public sector to change working methods and to become more flexible,

as it would help to improve inclusion and drive more innovation through the system. Another member of the group then suggested that one of the missing links was applications as these work right through to the individual, therefore making it possible to understand the influence that the application has. In order for this to work the language in the technological industry would need to change as people dont understand the technical jargon currently used; 20MB means nothing to the average person, its what you do with it that counts. Currently there is a need to translate. The group agreed this idea and stated that digital technology needs to be seen as a core strategy worth going for, as currently there are not a lot of highly digital organisations. Charities in the third sector have looked at families in poverty and want to know where they could access information technology that would help public services to work together. It was agreed that people want to better themselves, they just need an opportunity to do this and that part of this problem is the lack of access to information. The personalisation agenda was then referred back to and coined the person centred approach. In the past, people felt that this approach was harder achieve via technology, as it was difficult to differentiate between one individual and the next. However, now we can do this more effectively. Again, the private sector was referred to as it was believed that there is more innovation in this sector that causes the faster pace of change. Others thought that when the public sector does engage with businesses on a bigger scale they could have discussions regarding the pace of change. It was thought this could cause staff in the public sector to lift their heads and be able to look to where their place is in the grand scheme of things.

Access The issue of access to these services was then raised as, lots of people commute to cities but cant get access Broadband in their home. It was believed that this would soon cause a problem if new settlements were to be built without planning permission for broadband, as it would be harder to attract people. With new developments, infrastructure is not in

a legislative framework, and although people felt that there is willingness in the heart of economic developers and planners to do this, it is not legislated for. It was agreed by the group that there should be commission in the planning to solve this. It was then raised that there could be a possibility of treating inclusion of broadband in a domestic setting in the same way as water. Not even leading edge technology is needed in all areas, however investment in rural areas per head is significantly low. This was used to rebuff the earlier claim that the Highlands and Islands bucked the trend because of technology as, both areas use broadband for business and leisure but they cant access it at all times. The question was then how far can public involvement go? And where does the private sector step in? Although the Scottish Government has a commitment to provide hard to reach communities with broadband, is there room for the private sector here? The group felt that the key would be to find people who are excluded from technology and who want to be included. Carnegie research shows that if people dont want to be included they wont get involved in public services via this medium. This idea of getting a hook to get people involved was accepted and the group asked if this could drive a faster pace of change? However, it was thought it might be hard to try and find out what reason each person has for going online. The discussion on access concluded with the remark that public services are in a uniquely privileged position where they can link and drive demand through the applications that can be delivered. If we can get a balanced community we can create conditions to drive demand.

Procurement The issue of procurement was then raised as Scotland is currently the 2nd world leader of digital procurement, with only Portugal ahead of us. It was thought that perhaps businesses wouldnt be aware of this and many may be missing out because they dont have high broadband speed. It was agreed that this should be publicised more. The group then asked if public services and technology are being integrating because it is easier for the public sector or for the user? Or is it because it is cheaper? It needs to be decided whom it is for, as

currently it doesnt seem to be for the benefit of the user. The provision of the enablers is important, as is how people use the technology. The Data Protection Act appears to be used as an excuse, on occasion, for not thinking of new ways to communicate and share information. It was then asked if agriculture could benefit from procurement? There could be many practical uses for it in this area and it was seen as another way that a rural community could benefit economically.

Technology to enhance social exclusion Certain dangers of this fast paced technological changed were then addressed: some of the members of the group believed there is a lack of social exchange going on and there is a subsequent danger that we become so independently isolated that ICT becomes the only method of communication. However, the majority of the group felt that the evidence doesnt suggest this. People may communicate differently but they are still communicating However, the whole group agreed on the earlier idea that digital technology should become a utility. This would mean it was of even greater importance to include those currently excluded, and these people are mostly spread across large geographical areas. The 4 Rs One guest mentioned that they came to the meeting thinking about the 3 Rs: roll out, rural and reliability. They mentioned that the group had discussed the first 2 but they had failed to notice the 3rd. Reliability is an issue in rural areas and people can loose connectivity for a week and nothing is done about it. There are no reliability statistics and no communication of the topic to the people who are frustrated by it. It was explained that with fixed networks there can be peaks and troughs so the service isnt always stable but it needs to be improved. A fourth and final R was then mentioned re-empowering people at the local level. The group questioned how Scotland could empower front line staff to drive change and it was agreed this would require a cultural change if people are to take the next step to innovate the public sector. This change could take place if people continue talking in and across sectors, as people should be given the space to drive change.