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Near the end of this video is pretty brutal, so be warned. This has hit the internet recently and is
making a lot of waves. It's from 1984. Make no mistake about the type of world we live in.
**Mod note** Youtube has removed the video, here's an alternative link:
LiveLeak
"In a shocking discovery, this brutal and graphic video has just not been posted to the internet.
It is a video supposedly taken from December of 1984 in which Bobby J Blythe, a karate
"master instructs his student to brutally beat an individual who is seriously mentally ill. This
man was later discovered dead in a dumpster and Blythe was never charged."
Last edited by SOLIDUS; Yesterday at 02:08 AM.. Reason: Please see mod note.
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#2
08-20-2009, 08:56 PM
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Thats disgusting to say the least. Handicapped or not someone should have stepped in. I can't
imagine how those bastards that just stood there could go to sleep at night knowing they let that
guy get beaten down like that. I almost couldn't even finish the video because its so infuriating.
I hope they find those pieces of **** and put everyone of them on trial. Thats ****ing
despicable.
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#3
08-20-2009, 08:58 PM
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Pretty sick.... Good thing the statute of limitations doesn't apply to murder. I hope they nail
him.
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#4
08-20-2009, 08:59 PM
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Didn't show vid....says I have to sign in or up, which I won't do....oh well.
#5
08-20-2009, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Well at the end the guy gets his head stomped against a concrete floor and you can clearly see
blood oozing out. There seems to be some debate online as to whether he lived or not.
Regardless, it illustrates what can happen to you if you find your self surrounded by unfriendlies.
This is the kind of stuff that happens daily in prisons, schools, street corners, living rooms, etc.
it's very sad.
By the way I was going to embed the video but was unable to. Are we still allowed to? Maybe
I'm missing something.
Quote:
By the way I was going to embed the video but was able to. Are we still allowed to? Maybe I'm
missing something.
I ended up watching it and modifying my original post. I understand stuff like this happens but
these guys should have known better. In my mind I just couldn't stand around and watch a fellow
human get his head stomped in and dragged out like an animal. There is no way I would be able
to sleep if I turned my cheek to something like that and I can't believe not one of them had the
integrity, compassion, honor, or balls to step in.
I just can't fathom how those people would stand around and do nothing much less film it!? I've
trained in various martial arts since I was a child and this behavior goes against everything I was
ever taught. I love a good fair fight and I even enjoy participating in a good fair fight, but when
someone has had enough and the victor doesn't stop someone should intervene. These men have
no honor and I hope they get whats coming to them.
#7
08-20-2009, 09:24 PM
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#8
08-20-2009, 10:32 PM
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I bet the karate black belt felt like he was the 'man'. what a ****ing idiot. he continued to NECK
stomp him after he was unconscious. this was NOT a street fight.
#9
08-20-2009, 10:40 PM
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In my opinion the killer and his accomplises are more mentally ill that the victim. Those are
some sick, inferiority complex suffering scum buckets.
#10
08-20-2009, 10:44 PM
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Not to mention every dojo I have ever been a student at has taught that discipline is rule #1, not
pounding down some idjit, and one time while in a gym, a mom and pop shop, some krazy
freakin dude came in yelling about wanting to make sure the weights were of proper
"calibration"...
#11
08-20-2009, 10:48 PM
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Not to mention every dojo I have ever been a student at has taught that discipline is rule #1,
not pounding down some idjit, and one time while in a gym, a mom and pop shop, some
krazy freakin dude came in yelling about wanting to make sure the weights were of proper
"calibration"...
I have been sparring at different dojos / training halls for years and every once in a while you
run across a guy like the one in the white gi. Thinks he is bruce lee incarnate and he has to
prove it to everyone. Usually those type of people are very insecure and not anywhere near as
good as they claim/think they are. Those people have the potential to end up comitting the
same type of offense and they have NO business being trained how to fight.
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#12
08-20-2009, 11:39 PM
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Absolutely Sickening.
It is safe to say that what occurred in that video is humanity at it's worst. How a person kill
another human being, let alone in that fashion, is beyond me. Absolutely disgusting and I hope
the people involved, yes, even those who did nothing to help him, have never forgotten what
has occurred and have lived a life in a personal hell. Then again, those sick people probably
that is a disgrace to both the American and Japanese flags hanging on the wall.
#14
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I watched this video a second ago and then when I went to look at it again it said,"This video has
been removed due to terms of use violation"/ What's up with that?
What was disturbing was how fast they drug the body out. Nobody even attempted to see if they
could help him, they just pulled him out into the alley as fast as they could. And then the way the
guy was talking about the blood trail....f-ing disgrace to humanity.
#15
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It's not the fault of the US or Japanese citizens or governments this happened or that their flags
were portrayed. It is a problem with the sicko's that participated in this video, and they should
all be incarcerated for manslaughter at the minimum. If the camera suddenly dropped and you
saw a guy running to stop the guy in the white gi, I'd say okay... he doesnt go to prison, but that
doesn't happen does it.
Dont blame guns, flags, cars, etc etc etc... none of that makes anything happen. I blame
PEOPLE. A person killed that person. At least 2 others were watching and allowed it to
happen.
Quote:
I defeated him by stomping my foot, he looked down at it, and then I took him apart in about 2
seconds. Needless to say, he was learning kata with white belts for about a week or two before
he disappeared.
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From a prosecutor's point of view there's no criminal case here. The man in street clothes
started a fight that by his action he pressed on and made into a life death situation. The man in
the gee used the force necessary to stop a clearly dangerous man who threatened his life. At
some point it became not instruction but of self-defense. The fellow in street clothes could have
stopped his "lesson" at any time but did not. He pressed on. As long as the man in street clothes
could get up he was a deadly threat, particularly if he was indeed mentally ill. Also, as a
bystander one is not required to stop a fight or get anyone medical help. That might be callow
but it is not against the law. Watching someone drown and not getting help is perfectly legal.
One may not like what they did or how they handled it, but no prosecutable crimes were
committed.
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http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=88535
The incident seems to have touched a nerve. A lot of effort is being made to find out where these
people are today and to get law enforcement involved.
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Everyone involved is responsible. Looks like a typical "karate kid" dojo which there are plenty of
in the 80's. They took advantage of someone to make a point and they were killed. This type of
"dojo" hurts the reputations of the ones who teach non agression. We had one of these types of
dojos near me and were using broomhandles to beat the back of the kids to toughen them up. Lets
just say its no longer open.
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Quote:
Dont blame guns, flags, cars, etc etc etc... none of that makes anything happen. I blame
PEOPLE. A person killed that person. At least 2 others were watching and allowed it to
happen.
I did not blame the flags for what happened and don't know where the hell you got it from that I
did. I simply was saying that those pencil dicks in there and what they did were a disgrace to
those flags.
#23
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Sucks that this happened, but it would be particularly nice if this jakaz got popped from his own
bragging.
They could just get some 11th or 12th degree belts from the state hospital if this was not
challenging enough for them. Notice how quickly any veneer of dicipline or training slips away
to reveal the ghetto talk. Complete with head stomp.
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Quote:
From what i saw, they mental guy was trying to give up while saving some face but got
hammered...to death.
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SR, As was clearly indicated at the beginning the the video, the guy in street clothes was
seeking an exhibition. He clearly stated that he did not intend on touching the black belt. The
black belt student struck first with a blow to the groin. The guy in street clothes asked him not
to do that yet the black belt student continued to press the full contact match.
It would be the dojo masters responsibility to stop the match/fight, mutual combat or whatever
you wish to call it.
He failed to do that.
Depending on what else was said off video, conspiracy charges should have been filed as well.
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#27
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#28
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I couldn't watch it, obvious mental case get killed by some Karate jerk. Where is the sport, or
even fun in that? Michael Vick go's to prison for dog fights. Give me a break.
Keep your senses sharp and your weapon clean, loaded and ready. Whacko's like this out there,
we may need it without a shtf situation. God bless
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On the other hand, maybe all of the principles are dead and it is a moot point, and that is why the
video is around now.
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Quote:
Yesterday, 02:55 PM
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No he's a lawyer.
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Hopefully, Karma worked its wonders and killed everyone involved, would be even better if
they suffered for a long time before being put out.
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"You can just stand there, do not make any movement whatsoever I will not touch you"
Billy Bad kicked him in the groin and I'm pretty sure the "demonstration" shouldve ended at that
point. Up until that point there was ZERO indication that there would be any physical contact
perpetrated by the victim.
Self defense? Please...the Red belt was retreating, saying "You got it, ok? You got it. You got it."
He was clearly not a physical threat (nor was he ever) to Willis at the point he was dazed on the
ground. If he was in fear for his life there was AMPLE opportunity to flee.
#34
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Quote:
The simple fact that you are able to understand or comprehend what took place in the video
gives credence to the fact that you have no idea what you are talking about.
If someone were to ever ask your opinion about the law as it is written....
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Quote:
The best a prosecutor could hope for is manslaughter, and that would be iffy. In real life this
case would be pled out. The deal probably would be probation or a few months jail time, no
more than a year. That is reality.
And if one bothered to stand back and notice, all the disagreements are personal... I am a racist,
I am stupid, I am incompetent et cetera. Not one of you who disagrees addesses the facts. Make
a legal case FOR murder. Look at the video. Give legal reasons why it is murder. Prove your
position rather than issuing childish insults.
The man in street clothes says one thing but does another, he says he will back off but does not.
He continues the attack. Ask oneself is it not reasonable that the man in the gee thought at
some point it was kill or be killed? For a defense attorney this case is a no brainer. The guy in
street clothes knew what he was doing. He could have walked away at any time, but he pressed
the attack physically while saying he wasn't. That is deception.
Legally this is not a murder case. Morally it might be, but not legally. That is reality. That may
suck, but that is reality. Law is not about truth, or being right. It is a game, and the game is won
by following the game rules. It is truly lousy what happened to the man, but that is a totally
different issue than whether it was illegal or prosecutable.
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#37
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I saw a man who continued to stomp the other guys head into the cement even after he was
clearly incapacitated. That guy clearly went for the kill at the end as I viewed it.
I know we all have our opinions, but is there anyone here on the board ACTUALLY an
attorney? If so, I'd love to hear their opinion and rationale.
I'll be the first to say, I am not an attorney. But to continue using lethal force beyond what is
necessary for self defense would seem to be prosecutable to me. Then, not only did they fail to
call for medical care, they drug him outside and dumped him?
Quote:
A person may be found not to have committed murder if he or she was moved to act by a
sudden heat of passion caused by provocation recognized by law, and before there had been a
reasonable time for the passion to cool and for reason to reassert itself. However, a killing
with such provocation does not preclude a conviction of, manslaughter or other crime.
Both aggravated murder and simple murder have the element of purposely causing the death
of another. Aggravated murder contains the additional element of prior calculation and
design.
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#38
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there are few states that require you to flee. the video makes it very obvious that that black kid
was murdered. theres dialogue, and no question as to what transpired there.
if craphouse lawyer is correct, then anyone in a martial arts exhibition, or any sparring match is
in dread peril and can respond with deadly force up to and including stomping the victim's
head and neck after a knock out. idiotic.
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The guy was out cold and the other guy stomped him simple as that.
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#40
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This whole event was a set up from minute one! Short of the mental health issues of the victim,
every one there knew what they did was wrong, which is why they were in such a hurry to drag
him out of the dojo. He apparently recieved no medical attention, just tossed outside.
I'm no lawyer, but where I come from, these folks would have been arrested for conspiracy to
commit, felony assault, attempted murder, (as the suspect probably had no intent), and
unlawful disposal of a body, not to mention a host of lessor charges. Then the civil suit begins!
In my martial arts training, I have never heard of such a thing. These pukes are thugs of the
highest order.
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#41
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Straight razor, god damn good thing, Normative jurisprudence does not reside in your hands
alone. You are talking schitt, and that is that, all opinion, all commentary.
Then again, ignorant, working class people such as I have no sense. 3 years of law school? If
you paid for that, I'd demand a refund.
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#43
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Straight Razor
Also, as a bystander one is not required to stop a fight or get anyone medical help. That
might be callow but it is not against the law. Watching someone drown and not getting help is
perfectly legal. One may not like what they did or how they handled it, but no prosecutable
crimes were committed.
First, there is a vast difference between watching a person drown and watching a felonious
assault that results in death. What law school did you attend that didn't teach you about
misprision of a felony? It is a crime to not report a felony crime. Even security guards get that
knowledge in their training. Additionally, most states have compulsory laws as it relates to
rendering aid in certain situations, and four states—Louisiana, Rhode Island, Vermont, and
Wisconsin—have enacted Good Samaritan legislation, more properly termed failure-to-act
legislation, applicable to all citizens, not just physicians, that assigns an affirmative duty to aid
a victim in need. Violation of these laws is punishable criminally. As for the culpability of the
others in a crime, there is a legal concept known as "the hand of one is the hand of all", look it
up. They could be charged as principals in the crime or as accessories after the fact for failure
to report it and by moving the man outside.
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The best a prosecutor could hope for is manslaughter, and that would be iffy. In real life this
case would be pled out. The deal probably would be probation or a few months jail time, no
more than a year. That is reality.
The man in street clothes says one thing but does another, he says he will back off but does
not. He continues the attack. Ask oneself is it not reasonable that the man in the gee thought
at some point it was kill or be killed?
Absolutely not. The evidence of that is the massive opposition to your ridiculous defense. The
jurors that would be empaneled would share the sentiment of the people here. Here on this
board you have people who eat, drink and breathe the concept of self defense and understand it
better than the average citizen. Imagine what the soccer mom, the mailman and the nice old
lady next door would think. If you can't get the survivalists to buy your argument you DAMN
sure won't get Joe Six Pack to buy it!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Straight Razor
For a defense attorney this case is a no brainer. The guy in street clothes knew what he was
doing. He could have walked away at any time, but he pressed the attack physically while
saying he wasn't. That is deception.
So let me get this straight, the man who was killed could walk away at any time but the man in
the gi couldn't? Absurd. You clearly have painted yourself into a corner by claiming to be a
lawyer because you have displayed a staggering ignorance of fundamental legal doctrine as it
pertains to self defense, duty to render aid, reporting crimes and use of force. The prosecution
would CRUCIFY this guy. As a black belt he has a higher degree of knowledge and could
reasonably be expected to defuse a REAL assault without killing someone, let alone allowing a
delusional man to be tricked into launching a dementia induced "exhibition" as a pretense for a
vicious, unprovoked beating. It is obvious beyond belief by the language and attitude of Mr. Gi
and the others in the video that they knew the deceased was mentally ill, goaded him into
committing an action and then used that as the basis to "defend" himself. That is immoral AND
illegal. It would be no different than a police officer handing a mentally ill man a pipe and
inviting him to swing it around and conduct a demonstration, then shooting him and saying "I
feared for my life". I guarantee you even a deaf, blind, half-wit prosecutor could make that
comparison stick in the mind of a jury.
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#44
Yesterday, 09:03 PM
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Sometimes I feel our justice system takes too long. Way too much horrible crap in our country
goes on with no justice.
This "Karate master" should probably be found, and taken care of, no questions asked.
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#45
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#46
Yesterday, 09:29 PM
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Had to log in to thank that post! Not much wiggle room left after that.
What does the fact that he was murdered or not matter anyway? I think you just post things like
this for your personal enjoyment.
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#48
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#49
Yesterday, 09:53 PM
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I'll be the first to say, I am not an attorney. But to continue using lethal force beyond what is
necessary for self defense would seem to be prosecutable to me. Then, not only did they fail to
call for medical care, they drug him outside and dumped him?
"Excessive force" would be the only hope for a prosecutor for a manslaughter conviction. But in
fights with accomplished people that could be hotly contested. An autopsy could be helpful or
harmful.
Not providing medical care is not illegal (excluding parental responsibilities.) It is inhumane and
a lot of other moral failings but not helping someone is not a crime. Indeed, doctors often refuse
to offer medical care at accidents if their state does not have a good samaritan law.
#50
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#51
Yesterday, 10:15 PM
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Legally I think there might be a case for manslaughter, but it would not be a cake walk. Indeed, it
would not have been easy in 1984 and would be nearly impossible now. An autopsy now would
probably be useless so the state of incapacitation during the fight and cause of death would be
fuzzy at best. That is not enough to convict. We might be outraged at what we see but that is a
different issue than prosecuting. It was a lousy display of humanity but that is a different issue
than whether it was legally murder. And a manslaughter conviction is not heavy time usually. In
fact, one case I know very well resulted in only a year in the local jail, and the bum served the
time while waiting for trial. So he was convicted and went home.
One reason why I got out of law was the guilty walk too often.
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#52
Yesterday, 10:31 PM
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#53
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My point is, it is rarely a slam dunk in prosecutions. What one see is not always what one
thinks happened. And with that I rest my case.
#54
Yesterday, 11:34 PM
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So jerk "a" walks into a dojo to "teach", and gets into a fight with jerk "b".
Grinning "super macho man" with 'stash takes great joy and eggs on jerk "a" . Just words, but
still a jerk. Macho man snickers like the Sheriff to a Boss Hog joke and gets out of the way for
jerk "b".
Jerk "a" gives jerk "b" a pretty good thrashing, and even knocks him down.
In fact, in parts he's the aggressor. Apparantly, jerk "a" actually died after this fight. (The video I
saw probably late in the game did not show him being ragged out of the dojo). Super "macho"
looking dude witht the 'stash, salivates on egging on jerk "a" .
Jerk "a" could have quit, left, called out for his mommy, yelled "STOP", slapped the mat three
times etc. or shown some sort of clear sign he was done. He did not. He did not get the chance.
Insted he fought. Fight when on a few kicks too long.
So straightrazor is 100% right. Do you slappy happy lawyer wanna be's think jerk b should have
just shut it off when jerk a went down? It that the crime you see here?
When you consent to a fight, you may get hurt or killed. Didn't you know that? Self defense is
why most of us carry. You can even use deadly force in response to a fist fight. That is not a
crime at all. There are may dead bar room brawlers where winner is not prosecuted at all.
You ae thinking boxing rules, not for a street fight or self defense. That is not any crime at all.
Good case for civil court. I saw no pads, guards, prectition of any sort. This was not sparring.
This was not match. Forget the rule book, this was a street fight. It may not have been meant by
jerk a to start or end like this, but man he fought hard.
Jerk a's family will own that dojo if they sue. Macho man can stay on to clean floor in bathrooms.
Grinning macho man with 'stash does not appear at the end of the video I saw. Did he drag off
body? Sick f.
Even Bernnie Goetz (our NYC subway vigilante) would probably have gotten off he kept his yap
shut, evenafter shooting guy after attack ended, but he said and admitted saying, "You don't look
to bad, here's another" or something close to that. Self defense was over before he shot last shot.
Jerk b could barely breath before he gave last (maybe) fatal kick. IMHO, Straightrazor gets the
A, you all fail.
#55
Yesterday, 11:41 PM
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Quote:
Grinning "super macho man" with 'stash takes great joy and eggs on jerk "a" . Just words, but
still a jerk. Macho man snickers like the Sheriff to a Boss Hog joke and gets out of the way for
jerk "b".
Jerk "a" gives jerk "b" a pretty good thrashing, and even knocks him down.
In fact, in parts he's the aggressor. Apparantly, jerk "a" actually died after this fight. (The
video I saw probably late in the game did not show him being ragged out of the dojo). Super
"macho" looking dude witht the 'stash, salivates on egging on jerk "a" .
Jerk "a" could have quit, left, called out for his mommy, yelled "STOP", slapped the mat three
times etc. or shown some sort of clear sign he was done. He did not. He did not get the chance.
Insted he fought. Fight when on a few kicks too long.
So straightrazor is 100% right. Do you slappy happy lawyer wanna be's think jerk b should
have just shut it off when jerk a went down? It that the crime you see here?
When you consent to a fight, you may get hurt or killed. Didn't you know that? Self defense is
why most of us carry. You can even use deadly force in response to a fist fight. That is not a
crime at all. There are may dead bar room brawlers where winner is not prosecuted at all.
You ae thinking boxing rules, not for a street fight or self defense. That is not any crime at all.
Good case for civil court. I saw no pads, guards, prectition of any sort. This was not sparring.
This was not match. Forget the rule book, this was a street fight. It may not have been meant by
jerk a to start or end like this, but man he fought hard.
Jerk a's family will own that dojo if they sue. Macho man can stay on to clean floor in
bathrooms. Grinning macho man with 'stash does not appear at the end of the video I saw. Did
he drag off body? Sick f.
Even Bernnie Goetz (our NYC subway vigilante) would probably have gotten off he kept his
yap shut, evenafter shooting guy after attack ended, but he said and admitted saying, "You
don't look to bad, here's another" or something close to that. Self defense was over before he
shot last shot. Jerk b could barely breath before he gave last (maybe) fatal kick. IMHO,
Straightrazor gets the A, you all fail.
Another brilliant analysis.
#56
Yesterday, 11:49 PM
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Quote:
I love the dude who posts "but jerk b started it." Did that even work with your Mom?
Both engaged in fight. Like "who started it" matters when both are standing in fighting
positions trading blows evenly a second later. If jerk a walked away,ran, said stop it, end of
story. Instead he goes Bruce Lee. Now he's dead.
#57
Today, 12:00 AM
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Check out this link to help see self defense theory in practice just a few days ago. 20 year old is
in his car. 18 year old (lets call him jerk a) attacks with fists 20 year old in car which in in street,
running (call guy in car jerk b). 20 year old (jerk b) stops engine, gets out of car, grabs knife and
stabs jerk a to death. Jerk a unarmed. No police charges. Self defense. I'm sure jerk a did not
think jerk b would get out of car, grab a knife and kill em when he strted the fight that led to his
death. And I'll bet jerk a started the fight to "save face". In fact, jerk a probalby felt pretty safe
(like a dojo) when he hit jerk b who was stuck in a car. Jerk a hit jerk b throught the open car
window!
http://readingeagle.com/article.aspx?id=150297
In video, jerk a went into a dojo looking for fight! Far worse facts. Over time, he fought as both
aggressor and victim.
Still laughing at dude who wrote long thread as if who starts a fight matters. Priceless. "He
started it". I heard that like 100 times this summer from kids.
#58
Today, 12:21 AM
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I watched that video for a second time and it sickens me even more to see responses a few
individuals who claim to "higher understanding" about the law and that some how this was self
defense from the guy in the white gi.
Go watch the fight again if you can stand it and tell me and the whole world that what you saw
was at the end was a stunned man lying on the ground....
then receive several stomps on the neck and throat while he laid there helpless...
Then let's talk about the language....There is a certain point and even in the beginning that the
individual who gets stomped did not want to continue the fight and offered no resistance as he
was thrown to the ground and proceeded to be stomped...
The man outstretched his arms before he was thrown to the ground and opened his hands
attempting to de escalate a situation where he realized perhaps at that point in time his life might
actually be in danger.
Said thug missed with several stomps but proceeded anyway till he got the one that was the
"home run"
And as if stomping the life out of a defenseless person wasn't enough....
These dirtbags added insult to injury at the end of the video (not shown) "this is what we do"
#59
Today, 12:32 AM
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Quote:
In video, jerk a went into a dojo looking for fight! Far worse facts. Over time, he fought as
both aggressor and victim.
Still laughing at dude who wrote long thread as if who starts a fight matters. Priceless. "He
started it". I heard that like 100 times this summer from kids.
That situation is not even remotely similar to this one...
A man reaching into your car punching and slamming your face into the steering wheel allows
you to respond in self defense untill the attack stops.
It would be a different story if he got out of the car and proceed to stab the guy multiple times.
#60
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Quote:
Go watch the fight again if you can stand it and tell me and the whole world that what you saw
was at the end was a stunned man lying on the ground....
then receive several stomps on the neck and throat while he laid there helpless...
Then let's talk about the language....There is a certain point and even in the beginning that the
individual who gets stomped did not want to continue the fight and offered no resistance as he
was thrown to the ground and proceeded to be stomped...
The man outstretched his arms before he was thrown to the ground and opened his hands
attempting to de escalate a situation where he realized perhaps at that point in time his life
might actually be in danger.
Said thug missed with several stomps but proceeded anyway till he got the one that was the
"home run"
These dirtbags added insult to injury at the end of the video (not shown) "this is what we do"
"Attempting to de escalate..." are you kidding. Jerk a is in a fight. He does not quit, run, yell stop
etc. How is that "de escalating?" It is way to late to "de escalate". He should have quit.
Re read the Philly story. YOU GOT IT BACKWARDS. I'm going to make the Philly story simple
for you. Of course its different than a dojo fist fight, ITS FAR WORSE an example. Jerk a hit
jerk b while he was in a running car. Jerk b got out of the car and stabbed a to death. No charges
against jerk from car-murderer. Jerk b could have ended assault by driving off. Jerk a was a
ZERO threat to jerk b in car. Even you must recognize in dojo video jerk a was some sort of a
threat to jerk b (murderer). Of course its different genius, its worse!
What do you care if someone has "superior knowledge to you". Do you read the papers? Search
the news or wait a few days and you'll see a story where the either one or the other is killed in a
fight, no charges pressed. Who started it is not the issue. Kinda, sorta de escalating a problem you
stated or maybe did not start is not an issue. You enter into a fight, you better win and have a civil
lawyer ready. Criminal matter, probably no. You Tube post , f'in horrible.
"Attempted to de escalate" is like kinda, sorta slowing down a car crash, NOT STOPPING. Its
like asking a cop to wait to give a criminal time to reload, as a courtesy.Not as fnny as "he started
it" legal theory, but close. I know you don't understand any of this and do not read so good, so......
SARCASM GO!
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#61
Today, 01:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaBar67
You can watch it 50 times. You only are seeing what you want to see, in 8-10 second
increments. No one is claiming superior knowledge to you. You have demonstrated your
superior knowledge in your witty sarcasm.
"Attempting to de escalate..." are you kidding. Jerk a is in a fight. He does not quit, run, yell
stop etc. How is that "de escalating?" It is way to late to "de escalate". He should have quit.
I'm going to make the Philly story simple for you. Of course its different than a dojo fist fight,
ITS FAR WORSE an example. Jerk a hit jerk b while he was in a running car. Jerk b got out
of the car and stabbed a to death. No charges against jerk from car-murderer. Jerk b could
have ended assault by driving off. Jerk a was a ZERO threat to jerk b in car. Even you must
recognize in dojo video jerk a was some sort of a threat to jerk b (murderer). Of course its
different genius, its worse!
What do you care if someone has "superior knowledge to you". Do you read the papers?
Search the news or wait a few days and you'll see a story where the either one or the other is
killed in a fight, no charges pressed. Who started it is not the issue. Kinda, sorta de
escalating a problem you stated or maybe did not start is not an issue. You enter into a fight,
you better win and have a civil lawyer ready. Criminal matter, probably no. You Tube post ,
f'in horrible.
"Attempted to de escalate" is like kinda, sorta slowing down a car crash, NOT STOPPING.
Its like asking a cop to wait to give a criminal time to reload, as a courtesy.Not as fnny as
"he started it" legal theory, but close. I know you don't understand any of this and do not
read news so......
SARCASM GO!
I can clearly see what kind of person you are.
I'm indifferent to whether or not you care...but young individuals who see this will think this is
fine...it was the heat of battle.
the law will protect me...I'll be out in 5 and I'm a bad ass....better yet maybe they'll make a
video about them stomping on some guys neck and tossing him in the dumpster and they won't
have to worry about serving any time for it at all.
That guy laid helpless on the ground for a long time. He was not going to get back up and
reload or continue to be a threat....
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#62
Today, 01:09 AM
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http://www.trade-a-plane.com/specs?clsfdnum=792879
Oh, and all the half-**** 'attempts' to paint this as anything other than the murder it was is
completely amoral.
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monet108
#63
Today, 01:38 AM
Join Date: Dec 2008
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Quote:
"Attempting to de escalate..." are you kidding. Jerk a is in a fight. He does not quit, run, yell
stop etc. How is that "de escalating?" It is way to late to "de escalate". He should have quit.
Re read the Philly story. YOU GOT IT BACKWARDS. I'm going to make the Philly story
simple for you. Of course its different than a dojo fist fight, ITS FAR WORSE an example.
Jerk a hit jerk b while he was in a running car. Jerk b got out of the car and stabbed a to
death. No charges against jerk from car-murderer. Jerk b could have ended assault by
driving off. Jerk a was a ZERO threat to jerk b in car. Even you must recognize in dojo
video jerk a was some sort of a threat to jerk b (murderer). Of course its different genius,
its worse!
What do you care if someone has "superior knowledge to you". Do you read the papers?
Search the news or wait a few days and you'll see a story where the either one or the other is
killed in a fight, no charges pressed. Who started it is not the issue. Kinda, sorta de
escalating a problem you stated or maybe did not start is not an issue. You enter into a fight,
you better win and have a civil lawyer ready. Criminal matter, probably no. You Tube post ,
f'in horrible.
"Attempted to de escalate" is like kinda, sorta slowing down a car crash, NOT STOPPING.
Its like asking a cop to wait to give a criminal time to reload, as a courtesy.Not as fnny as
"he started it" legal theory, but close. I know you don't understand any of this and do not
read so good, so......
SARCASM GO!
Quote:
The 20-year-old was with his girlfriend in his car when he saw his ex-girlfriend's sister and
stopped to talk to her.
The 18-year-old ran to the car and started punching him and slamming his face into the
steering wheel.
The 20-year-old pulled out a knife, stabbed the man, drove away and called 9-1-1 to report
what had happened.
Please point out to me when does the 20 year old get out of the car to stab the guy?
I do believe he stabbed the guy while he was inside the car being assaulted by the guy who ran
up to the car and proceeded punch and slam his head into the steering wheel.
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#64
Today, 05:42 AM
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Here's the take away: Law is a game, a very serious one. The defendant is the ticket to the game
but it is always the law that is on trial. The fighters are the lawyers. The judge is really the referee
and the jury is the judge. The entire game moves on evidence and rules. They are equally
important. Truth is irrelevant. Do you understand that? Truth is irrelevant. The guilty walk and
the innocent get convicted because truth is irrelevant. The important part is how the game is
played. And, once the game starts there will be a winner and a loser, and truth, reality is totally
irelevant.
Prosecutors only play the game when they are guaranteed a high probability of success. They are
paid to win, not lose. They limit their losses by not taking cases that do not offer a near slam
dunk success. Winning is how they justify spending tax dollars. If they lose a lot they are
replaced.
As hideous as this incident is, to the legal eye it is not a good case to prosecute. There are too
many places open to defense interpretation, and who knows, the defense might be right.
Consider something as simple as a speeding ticket. Once you get the ticket whether you were
speeding or not is irrelevant, completely irrelevant. You are in the game, and you will win or lose.
If you play better than the other guy you win, if you don't you lose. Essentially prosecutors stack
the deck, nearly every one they charge did the crime and there is a boat load of clear evidence.
All that is left is to play the game and win. They clearly thought they could not win this one and
did not play. That is reality.
#65
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Why wasn't that guy busted for that? I mean a murder took place on film with many witnesses.
People have been arrested for way less than that. I bet if it was a White guy that was killed it
would have been a different story. The karate master would have been in jail for the rest of his
life.
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#66
Today, 06:16 AM
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#67
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#68
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Quote:
Reply: More of your personal bs attacks like threw at straitrazor, right. Boo hoo.
I'm indifferent to whether or not you care...but young individuals who see this will think this
is fine...it was the heat of battle.
Reply: No they will not. You individuals will read your thread and not get that once you
engage in fist fighting, it may get out of control and you may get dead. No crime, no foul, one
less jerk. You needed the reset button.
the law will protect me...I'll be out in 5 and I'm a bad ass....better yet maybe they'll make a
video about them stomping on some guys neck and tossing him in the dumpster and they
won't have to worry about serving any time for it at all.
Reply: More sarcasm?
That guy laid helpless on the ground for a long time. He was not going to get back up and
reload or continue to be a threat....
Reply: I saw the video. A long time? That is debatable. The car example is not. Jerk in car
was in no real danger and he killed his opponant.
Edits made to above. I jumped in becasue you and a few others are putting out some bad intel.
When corrected you revert to name calling and sarcasm. (Ex. "I can see what sort of person
you are"). The same concept that allows us to use deadly force to defend lives, can yield some
crazy results such as the gun toting criminal claiming they "defended" themselves from the
police! 2 jerks fighting, one dies and no charges are brought is very very common. Only spin
here is its a dojo and they are fighting karate style, and on You Tube! Its sick, but it is not
sparring.
#69
Today, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Not providing medical care is not illegal (excluding parental responsibilities.) It is inhumane
and a lot of other moral failings but not helping someone is not a crime. Indeed, doctors often
refuse to offer medical care at accidents if their state does not have a good samaritan law.
We've already covered this. For counsel on the matter you can refer to my post that you
selectively ignored on page three.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Straight Razor
Well... they didn't, and they won't, successfully. That is the reality beyond opinions here. Most
of the opinions I have seen here are based on ficitional concepts of the law, not in the reality of
the law.
I have clearly demonstrated that you lack even a basic understanding of the law, in fact if you
were on trial for being an attorney and your posts were entered into evidence you can rest assured
you'd be acquitted in record time.
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#70
Today, 07:55 AM
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thread saver
Quote:
yeah guys dont forget razor has been a lawyer, a doctor, a fighter pilot, a college professor, a
journalist, the president of ABC, a CEO, the secretary of defense, an assassin, a soldier, a
stripper, an actor, a scientist, AND a lion tamer. im pretty sure he knows what he's talking
about here.
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Kregener, RECTIFIER
#71
Today, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Leave the personal insults for another forum. He's an older member and has I beleive the right
answer.
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#72
Today, 08:21 AM
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#73
Today, 08:23 AM
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[QUOTE=Your Funeral;870173]
There is a difference between a sanctioned match where two fighters, who are subject to physical
requirements agree to fight and have to sign waivers and contracts prior to bouts. Because this
crime ocured in a dojo does not cloak it in the same protections that a legally sanctioned event
would have. In fact that really isn't even worth mentioning because it isn't even relevant to this
debate.
So you're in essence saying that if you're accosted by a criminal and you end up killing him then
you agree you should be charged with a crime because by your own statement whether or not he
initiated the assault is irrelevant.
Reply: Actually logic gives you opposite result, criminal death does not get other arrested b/c it
was self defense. Rethink this. It is the crux of your problem.
WOW. The man stated he was going to engage in an exhibition not a mutual form of combat. The
only way you could possibly stretch this into a self defense case for man B would be if the
deceased had struck him first. Once man B struck the first blow which after the deceased asked
him not to and even still after being struck man A did not immediately actively assault man B and
asked him not to continue, any claim of self defense would be easily dismantled by a prosecutor
in any state in the union, with of course the exception being great state of make believe.
Apples and oranges, the victim in the dojo case was lured into acting in an alleged aggressive
manner by sadistic thugs who did so with the intent to use his "aggressiveness" as an excuse to
assault him. BUT FOR the prompting of man B engaging the obviously mentally ill man by
playing into his delusions and agreeing to enter into what was supposed to be a "no touch"
exhibition, there would have been no "danger" to man B. A far cry from a self-initiated assault by
a person of sound mind, to say the least.
Reply: "BUT FOR THE PROMPTING"...thats civil concept, not criminal. Each man is
responsible for his own conduct in criminal law. Are you mixing up entrapment?
"Obvious mentally ill" mental illness is a sliding scale too. This guy was pretty much in control
of his faculties and far from mentally incompetant. Stupid yes.
Quite incorrect, the mustachioed sadist lured him into acting aggressively by agreeing to allow
the victim to perform an "exhibition" under the stipulation that it would be "no contact". Man B
then violated the terms of the "exhibition" that he helped initiate (with demonstrable knowledge
he was doing so) by kicking the deceased in the groin.
Reply: "lured him into?" How did jerk a get into dojo?
Just like judges in courts across the nation hear on a daily basis, wherein you can bet your last
dollar that very question is the heart of the matter. You can ignore the truth and try to couch it in
terms of kids fighting if you want, it only makes you look callous in addition to looking ignorant.
Are you really so obtuse you don't understand the difference between a fight between kids and a
savage beating death captured on tape? Wow, laugh away buddy, laugh away. Myself? I saw
nothing to laugh about, this video is one that I wish I could "unwatch".
Reply: You started it. You started it. Think how silly that is. Did it work for you in grammer
school.
Then I'd see the same facts 50 times, AS WOULD a JURY.
He did tell him to stop several times. How should he have quit when he was getting his head
stomped in, pray tell? Was he still fighting when he was getting the life stomped out of him?
Reply: I did not see him tell him to stop. Not once. That would change everything. But it aint
there. Once he was getting his head stopped in it was too late. Rest is sarcasm, no need to reply.
(sigh) Again, you're comparing a mentally ill man who was lured into acting in a certain fashion
to a willing combatant initiating an assault. Apples and oranges. Let me break it down for you
Barney style: Not even in the same universe, let alone the same ball park.
Furthermore you seem to have added a few things to your article as it doesn't state anything about
the car being cut off and the driver exiting the vehicle.
Reply: Ok. He's still in a car. Hit gas, incident over. This is only one example. Look in the news
(very small stories of little newsworthiness). This is an everyday occurance. I looked for about a
minute.
Google the term "totality of the circumstance", each case stands on it's own and I will wager that
the bulk of people in this thread and far more average Joe types would agree that this example is
unique and particularly heinous, if just for the fact that someone who obviously possesses such a
high level of specialized knowledge in inflicting damage and is supposed to be trained allowed
this "exhibition" to even start, let alone proceed to the point where an incapacitated man was
repeatedly stomped while prone. I have to believe that nobody could be this dumb, that you are
playing devil's advocate for the sheer entertainment it brings you.
Reply: Yea. You called people who don't agree with you dumb. Ok. Cops in Philly dumb too,
maybe you should rethink self defense issues. Why would I google "totallity of the
circumstances" on an issue as narrow as self defense and consentual combat. Who agreed to an
"exhibition". Both fighters did pretty well.
You younger guys need to know if you decide to the difference between self defense and
concentual combat. If you engage in a fight on consent, (as this clearly was) you better (a) win
(b) if you decide to quit, YELL OUT NO MAS! Make your retreat and withdrawl clear. I did not
see that happen on this tape. The last stomp is questionable, but to me, not so long after they were
brawling at a fairly even pace.
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#74
Today, 08:33 AM
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I started out a soldier then teacher, went to journalism then law and then settled on what I've
always liked, plants. That only took me 40 years. It's been a fun run, except for the Army part.
When you are shot at every day it only becomes a matter of time before you will get hit.
#75
Today, 09:33 AM
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Someone seems to have informed the cops. This could get interesting. I wonder why he would
post something that incriminated himself?
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#76
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Quote:
Reply: Ok. He's still in a car. Hit gas, incident over. This is only one example. Look in the
news (very small stories of little newsworthiness). This is an everyday occurance. I looked
for about a minute.
Maybe you should have looked a bit longer to find one that better suited you argument.
And yes, it does happen everyday and the law interprets each circumstance when called upon
to do so to determine if laws had been broken.
Unless this is on record somewhere as having been investigated and showing the DA as unable
to bring charges forward it will remain an injustice to the law.
In the article, you linked to support your claims, you injected/made up events that did not
occur.....
And then have the audacity to say to others, and myself, we did not read the news story
correctly?
Which leads me to question your ability to understand what happened in the video from a legal
perspective.
And the fact that Straight Razor evades Your Funeral's posts leads me to question his ability to
interpret the law as it is written.
The best thing I could hope for at this point is the video turns out to be a hoax.
#77
Today, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Someone seems to have informed the cops. This could get interesting. I wonder why he would
post something that incriminated himself?
There is a criminal investigation into this video because murder has no statute of limitations.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=915208
The skinny guy said he "gives up" several different times, yet they let him get stomped down.
The entire group should be charged with murder, and/or accomplice to murder.. That was a
cruel, cowardly thing to do
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#78
Today, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Quote:
Someone seems to have informed the cops. This could get interesting. I wonder why he would
post something that incriminated himself?
Interesting indeed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sojurn87
The best thing I could hope for at this point is the video turns out to be a hoax.
I agree, but if it isn't (which I believe) hopefully justice will be served.
Quote:
#79
Today, 10:58 AM
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment
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#80
Today, 11:26 AM
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#81
Today, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment
I'm surprised anyone remembers that. I had to study it in grad school a life time ago.
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#82
Today, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
And the fact that Straight Razor evades Your Funeral's posts leads me to question his ability to
interpret the law as it is written.
I'm not evading anyone's posts. I've had my say, saying more won't change any minds or make
any difference thus no point to it.
#83
Today, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
And yes, it does happen everyday and the law interprets each circumstance when called upon
to do so to determine if laws had been broken.
Unless this is on record somewhere as having been investigated and showing the DA as unable
to bring charges forward it will remain an injustice to the law.
In the article, you linked to support your claims, you injected/made up events that did not
occur.....
And then have the audacity to say to others, and myself, we did not read the news story
correctly?
Which leads me to question your ability to understand what happened in the video from a legal
perspective.
And the fact that Straight Razor evades Your Funeral's posts leads me to question his ability to
interpret the law as it is written.
The best thing I could hope for at this point is the video turns out to be a hoax.
#84
Today, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
The skinny guy said he "gives up" several different times, yet they let him get stomped down.
The entire group should be charged with murder, and/or accomplice to murder.. That was a
cruel, cowardly thing to do
I just saw the ending. Not on other video. God aweful
Last edited by KaBar67; Today at 04:59 PM..
#85
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No no point at all
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#86
Today, 01:07 PM
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I say everybody step back and let Straight Razor argue with himself.
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#87
Today, 01:14 PM
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thread saver
whats truly awsome or rediculous about razor (you decide). is that with all his claimed areas of
expertise he covers everything. wook posts a video that blows all of razors BS out the window,
and he claims that his journalistic expertise somehow nullifies it.
i hope that whole bunch of cobra kai wanna-be's gets life. they will probly find half of them
currently employed by blackwater international.
How in the **** could anyone claim that was some how self defense. Any attempt to make
that claim, which was a weak claim in the first place, died as soon as they dragged that guys
limp body out the back door and left him for dead. Even in self defense you have a legal
responsibility to notify the authorities. It's the same as if someone breaks into your home, you
can defend yourself but if you shoot them and then leave their body by the curb or bury it in
the back yard then you have committed murder.
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sticks65, trixie, Your Funeral
#89
Today, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
I'm calling BS, prove it. I want to see a picture of your JD or LLM... cover your real name for
privacy and put a piece of paper in the pic that says "straight razor's credentials"
#90
Today, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Quote:
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#91
Today, 05:57 PM
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Here's another video of the Karate instructor. It's kind of weird. It shows him shooting a gun at
a karate demo in front of a bunch of kids.
shooting video video by littleoldme_2009 -...
http://s812.photobucket.com/albums/z...tleoldme_2009/
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#92
Today, 06:19 PM
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http://www.myspace.com/index.cfm?fus...eo10.flv%22%3E
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#93
Today, 06:26 PM
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#94
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.
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#95
Today, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Just stop.
That clip did blow your entire argument away. You spent several posts claiming that no
prosecutor would take this case because it was not winnable. Well obviously if several law
enforcement organizations are investigating it then someone thinks there is a case there. The
chief interviewed even said that, if found, the owner would face charges and anyone there
likely might as well. The people who actually PRACTICE and enforce the law do not agree
with your assessment.
Quote:
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Your Funeral
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#96
Today, 07:36 PM
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When I trained in Kajukenbo in the mid to late nineties our school used to have knuckleheads
come in out of the blue and test our style. I saw our head instructor beat a few asses and sent
them limping with their tails between their legs out the door.
But, he would have never ever taken that fight with a mentally disturbed person, no matter
what, if that guy would have not left the dojo my instructor would have called the cops to deal
with him.
This dip**** head instructor and his sidekick bully murderer should have been brought out
back of their dojo and shot on sight. The rest of his students who stood there and filmed and
watched this murder should still be sitting in prison.
BTW, the murderer's fighting skill lacked everything, that old style karate would get schooled
today. I cannot believe they actually used to fight like that in the 80's, the martial arts have
evolved so much over the years thanks to Bruce Lee, the Gracie Family, and other legit
systems. I know that school's **** wouldn't work on the streets or in combat, his student's
probably got there asses handed to them constantly.
#97
Today, 07:55 PM
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Murder.
Plain and simple. The deceased may or may have not have been a true nuisance but that was not
for Blythe to deal with unless there was an intrusion.
He baited, the deceased asked to stop being beaten and was executed.
To say it isn't prosecutable is very subjective but I showed this to a Lawyer friend who says he
would have no problem bringing this into a court.
We had a highly connected dude in the Sheriffs Dept. see his dopey kid sent to prison for rape for
video taping sex with the neighborhood pump when she was passed out.... just minutes after
telling him to do her.
That vid (the killing) shows an assault, shows a man in dire urgent need of medical attention
being dragged out the back door to avoid witness.....while taping the whole sordid affair.
They knew this was going to be a route. They brought this dude in and kicked him while he was
down after he asked to not be hit anymore.
Murder so fouls as it were.
#98
Today, 09:10 PM
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Quote:
We can now make it official that you have no idea what you are talking about.
You'll have plenty of opportunity to discredit everything that comes out and paint it all with a
"white wash of sarcasm" to save face.