Professional Documents
Culture Documents
F O R T H E N O R T H E R ND I S T R ] C T O F C A L ] F O R N I A
\7q ffiffipY
MARY V. KING, GATL STEH,E,
W]LMA CHAN, KEITH CARSON,
SCOTT HAGGERTY, the COUNTY
OF ALAMEDA, and the COUNTY
OF ALAMEDA BOARD OF
SUPERVISORS,
t*,
Defendants.
¿**
DEPOSIT]ON OF
IGNAT]US H. CHTNN
sacramento, catlrornia
Reported by:
Laurie D. Lerda, CSR
CSR No. 3649
Job No. 680B98
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EsquireDepositionServices
ffiffiFV 800.770.3363
1 Deposition of IGNATIUS H. CHINN, taken on
7 3649.
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1 APPEARANCES
3 For Plaíntiff:
4 LAVüOFFICES OF DONALDKILMER
5 B Y : D O N A L DE . J . K I L M E R , J R . , ESQ.
B (408) 998-8489
10
For the Defendant:
11
o F F r c E o F T H E C O U N T Y C O U N S E L , C O U N T YO F
1,2 ALAMEDA
I¿T Counsel
L1 (sl-0) 272-6134
1B
¿5 P. O. Box 1"60481
25 (916) 263-0802
EsquireDepositionServices
800.770.3363
.L INDEX OF EXAM]NAT]ON
6 EXAM]NAT]ON BY
1_1
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I6 rNDEX OF EXH]BITS
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l_B PAGE
L9 DEPOS]TION
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2L EX A ORDINANCE NO.
22
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800.770.3363
1 BE IT R E M E M B E R E D ,t h a t on Friday, March L7, 2006|
appeared
B ]GNAT]US H. CH]NN,
1"2 --oOo--
'1
? (Exhibit A was marked )
1,4 EXAMINATTOB
NY M R . K I L M E R , E S Q . :
1,6 record
1B C-h-i-n-n.
22 MR. KILMER: Y e s r v t r êc a n .
EsquireDepositionServices
800.770.3363
1 issued by the plaintiffs.
71 O. Vühich?
1_B A. Ignatius.
2t present employer?
EsquireDepositionServices
800.770.3363
-L A. Oakl-and Police Department.
EsquireDepositionServices
800.770.3363
1 a. All right Do you have any qnani¡l nn'li¡a
.l-r¡'ininn?
2
6 I've a l s o w o r k e d f r o m 1 , 9 1 4t o I g B l a s a
B Oakland, California.
22 Dal-e Furato.
EsquireDepositionServices
800.770.3363
1 you earlier, what is your titl-e now?
1 A
f = Northern California area.
EsquireDepositionServices
800.770.3363
1 longer possession forms or in the system as evidence
74 A. Very.
1B A. And one.
2L as an expert before?
22 A. Yes.
EsquireDepositionServices
800.770.3363
1 and prohibit.ed possession nomencfature and operation.
3 A. No.
5 show?
9 shows ?
1l_ O. Yeah.
1 A
f = so forth.
71 A. Yes.
22 Fairgrounds.
25 Fairgrounds ?
EsquireDepositionServices
800.770.3363
1 A Yes. I rm sorry, T rr qarl lu- vn nn
Y v
J.lrora
,
{e- vnvn.
3 aS I^¡el-l-?
4 A Yo<
B Ä Vaq
T4 ímmediately.
1B firearm laws?
EsquireDepositionServices
800.770.3363
1 aüray and never bring it back and he complíed and
tr person. was,
them all- and we cited the So, and that
9 the Nordykes?
1_0 A. Right.
1_3 A. Yes.
1 t l
a t O. Can you give me can you tel-l- me about
15 those?
1,9 Hotel.
EsquireDepositionServices
800.770.3363
1
I
A. Vfhat are the differences, some of the
3 show in California?
6 laws.
EsquireDepositionServices
800.770.3363
1 law by going to a Nevada gun show?
z A. Yes.
4 those?
tr
A. On two separate occasions from the
1
r =A purchased firearms or high capacity magazínes
1B Reno, Nevada?
EsquireDepositionServices
800.770.3363
1 abl-e to watch an illegal activity occur in the
B Cal-ifornia.
J-J A. No.
19 aren't they?
EsquireDepositionServices
800.770.3363
1 know when youtre done.
z A. Okay.
second.
T2 California definition?
22 A. Kl_Ont.
EsquireDepositionServices
800.770.3363
1 A. Okay. For example, the Al-ameda ordinance
4 A. Correct.
q
Irm goi-ng to ask you to take a look at
L2 production or event.
1_6 A. Yes.
1B entaí I s ?
EsquireDepositionServices
800.770.3363
1
regulatory scheme for regulating gun shows?
A. Yes, sir.
1,2 firearms?
1-3 A. Yes.
15 n this
f at one time shot competitivelv and at
22 A. No.
23 O. Vühy not?
EsquireDepositionServices
800.770.3363
1 has taken the pl-ace of the quns at these shows.
4 A. No.
q
O. And that would be a statement not as a law
B A. Yes.
L2 A. YeS.
15 A. IbelieveIcan.
a -
IO O. Okay. Pl-ease do.
z5 O. Uh-huh.
EsquireDepositionServices
800.770.3363
L selling the machine guns, and there was a time that
house in Napa.
16 O. okay.
2L at this location.
EsquireDepositionServrces
800.770.3363
1 n Just the parts Okav. What do some of
11 0. Okay.
-LJ have the part at the show, we paid him for the part
EsquireDepositionServrces
800.770.3363
1 You started with one question and you went
2 off to another.
f
0. BY MR. KILMER: I did do that.
A. No.
1_B A. Yes.
22 A. Yes.
24 A. Absolute]v.
EsquireDepositionServices
800.770.3363
1 EXAMINATIONBY MR. MacKAY:
4 that right?
q
A. Yes.
9 A. Yes.
24 firearms ?
EsquireDepositionServices
800.770.3363
1 shohr private citizen, which I really havenrt
go.
L2 educational-.
EsquireDepositionServices
800.770.3363
1 Scouts?
9 A. Yes.
L2 Alameda ordinance?
t4 Penal Code.
L6 No further questions.
1B Thank you.
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1 Pursuant to Section 2025 (q) (1) of the Code of Civil
6 correct.
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1 REPORTER'S CERTTFTCÀTE
2 f certify that the r¡itness in the foregoing
3 depositíon,
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2L
I,ATIRTE LERDA,
fr, R 3649
State of Californía
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CHANGES/CORREC'IIONS
Page/t,ine From To
" )
V[ûúnessSigmatune Date
29
26:7 6:5,12,22 7:16,19 8:8 commencing 5:2 days7:3
ableL6:1,722:15 Attorney3:226:ll 8 : 1 79 : 1 4 1 2 : 1 7 compare17:9,19 dba 1:4
Absolutely23:24 authority 16:3 13:12l4:3,22,25,25 competitively19:15 dealer14:1020:25
accessoriesll:7 13:24 authorizesl8:9 1 5 : 61 6 : 8 , 1 1 , lL77: 9 complete14:9 2I:3
accomplished2l:15 autoT:12 l7:12,2120:18 22:6 compliance 10:12 dealers 20:19
Act 10:16 automatic9:2322:7 23:2126:13 27:2 1 l : 2 0 1 2 : 1273 : 2 1 deals18:7
acted16:15 Avenue3:6 28:1,7 complied13:l deem27:4
action16:7 average23:12 Californians13:23 complyI2:5 l4:5 Defendant3:l0
activities12:11 awarell:2313:21 call9:1823:9 complying16:18 Defendants l:13
activity 16:1 l4:24 called5:9 l4:7 22:3 Compound22:24 definition1l:4 17:8,10
actual24:1825:17 a.m2:4,5 5:226:19 capacity13:24l5:7,10 compromising20:14 17:12,19,20
ADAMS l:6 1 5 : 1 41 6 : 1 0 computer-assisted degreeT:25
agency21:10 capital5:17 28:15 denial9:22
agent8:189:2 B l:4 caption28:20 concluded 26:19 denials9:20
agents9:8,15 back13:1,23,24 l5:8 carbineZ2:7,8 conduct14:1520:10 DENNIS l:6
agreement16:5 15:1316:717:6,18 Carlos8:19 22:15 department 3:206:12
agricultural1l:12 20:17 CARSONl:10 conducted13:1620:9 6:227:1,5,16,25 8:17
Alameda1:II,l23:72 background9:22 l4:I5 case1:512:2320:14,14 connected 18:15 I8:14
6:8 ll:2416:23 18:19 28:19 connection22:20 Deponent 3:19
17:11,20 l8:l26:12 badge25:2526:4 cases9:18,1910:2,5,9 contact10:3 deposition l:17 2:1,2
Alcohol8:1221:9 BAKER 1:6 l5:9,10 contextl5:17 4:195:24,25 26:19
ALISON 3:21 BALTES l:6 c a u s e 2 l : 1 2 , 21 8 : 1 1 controller9:I I 27:328:18
Allen 1:36:3 based20:10 ceased13:4 controls9:12 Deputy3:13,22 6:7,11
Allison6:10 basic25:8 centersll:13 24:3 conventionll:.13 24:3 8:2I
allow23:20 beginning2:4 central 10:8 conversation17:14 destruction10:2
allowing22:21 behaW2:2 certificate8:1525:14 Conversion22:4 destructivel8:22
ammunitionI l:7 believe20:1525:18 certified2:65:48:14 converts22:.7 detain15:13
Al[N l:4 26:2,3 28:5,14,24 cooperative12:9 detectives 7:13
answer17:23 Bill9:18 cerfify 27:3 28:7,17 correct7:17 l8:3,4 develop 2l:12
antique l9:25 blackjackl3:3 24:13 CHAN 1:10 2 5 : 1 72 7 : 6 devices18:22
anyway 19:9 blackjacks26:10 chance16:25 correctingl0:19 differences14:1,2
APPEARÄNCES3:1 blades24:12 changes27:4 corrections27:4 difficult 22:18
appeared5:7 BLAIR l:6 charge8:19 counsel3:11,14 5:19 direction28:15
appears17:24 BOARD 1:12 charged22:22 6:2,8,1128:17 directly8:21,24
approve2T:5 Bob l:6 charges14:23 Counsel's6:8 I)irector 8:21,24
approximately7:10 bought22:8 checksl8:20 counterpart21:1I disconnect 22:923:9
9:10 Box3:23 C h i n nl : 1 82 : l 3 : 1 9 counties9:10l0:12 discovered 20: 17,20,21
APR]IL2S:22 Boy25:25 5:8,17,25 6:13,14 counts15:12 discussion 17:5,17
area9:14 break22:25 17:1427:1028:8 c o u n t yl : 1 1 , 1 13 : 1 1 , 1 1 Districtl:1,26'.4,5
areas8:5 10:23l7:24 brief l7: 14 CI9:21 3 : 1 35 : 56 : 7 , 8 9 : 9 Division6:127:99:5
17:25 bring 13:1,23 CID 7:8 lI:12,21,2414:23 d o i n g 9 : 1174 : 1 5 , 1 8
Army 8:l I broader17:1I,24 citedl3:5 24:16 l8:828:3,6,25 1 8 l:9
arrested16:16 Broadway9:20 citizen24:2125:l Court l:l6:,4 dolls19:25
arrests20:10 brought12:23l3:8 Civil2T:1 crew9:8 Donald3:4,56:2
Asian7:2014:18 24:11,13 26:7 civilian9:l I crimeT'.2023:4 Dorado14:23
askedl2:2517:19 building13:18 Clara 11:21 criminalT:98:5 10:6 draw l7:7
aspects25:I 5 Bureau7:198:Il,l2 clarifïcation 26:5 CSRl:23,24 DUANE l:5
assault10.'2414:19 2l:9 clarify 26:5 currently 14:22 duly 5:1028:9,13
I5:7,8,2316:10 burglary7:11 classes 25:10,21 C-h-i-n-n5:18 duties7:4 18:13
assembled 21:23 business 23:16 classifyl8:2
assigned 7:8,18 busyl0:13 clear2I:22 D
assisted2l:17 buying14:19 clock19:18 d I:232:65:4 l4:8 l7:8 E 3 : 5
ATF2l:5,8 Code10:1726:1427:l 28:5,23 earlier9:1
attempting14:25
c collection19:16 DaleS:22 education7:2125:16
attend 19:17,20 C l:5 collector20:7 dance18:10 educational 25:12
attended7:238:9 CalT:24 Colt8:10 Dated2T:7 either28:18
13:ll Californial;2,192:4 come9:20 10:1015:13 DAVIS 1:5 El14:23
attentionl3:8 17:7 3:7,16,20,245:4,6 L6:7 day27:728:22 elevenT:7
EsquireDeposition
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employed6:23 five7:3 half 6:247:70,17 item25:6 22:223:12
employer6:21 flintlock 18:3 hand 14:1924:23 items20',2224:16 lot16:2
enforcementl0:16 Floor2:3 5:3 25:1428:22 I-g-n-a-t-i-u-s5:17
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enforcing16:18 form 5:21 happenI l:10 machinel0:9,2519:6
engage12:10 forms10:1 HaywardT.'24 J 3:5 20:18,18,2221:1,6
ensure23:20 forth5:11lI:I421:20 held24:2 JEAltl l:5 2l:14,20,2322:6,23
entails18:18 îound2l:L9 24:6 helped12:16 JESSl:4 23:5,17,21
entertainment 18:15 founding7:13 helping16:18 Job l:24 MacKAY 3:135:19,23
18:24,25 four 14:418:6 hereinafter5:11 Jose3:7 6:722:2423:1024:l
equally25:7 FOIIRNIER 1:7 hereunto28:21 JR 3:5 25:15,2226:17
equated9:25 Francisco7:18 highT:22,2213:24l5:7 June9:17 magazine 15:10
era l8:.2 fraudulently14:21 1 5 : 1 0 , 1146 : 1 0 Justice3:206:12,22 magazines 13:24l5:8
E S Q3 : 55 : 1 4 Friday 1,:20 2:5 5:l Hilton 13:18 7:168:1718:14 15:11 46:10
Esquire2:2 front 16:22 hobbiesl9:11 mail20:19
evade14:25 lully 2l:23 22:7 hobbyist20:7 main20:25
eventl8:12 FuratoS:22 home15:22 KEITH l:10 male14:18
evidencel0:l furniture l9:25 Hotel13:19 Kern9:910:12 mandatesl4:8
EX4:21 further23:2525:23 hotels11:1324:3 Kilmer3:4,54:95:14 March l:20 2:55:l
EXAMINATION 4:1,6 26:16,L7 28:17 hour 5:2 5:22,246:2,1317:3,6 marked5:1316:22
5:L424:L25:23 house21:7,19 1 7 : 1 3 , 1 5 ,2138: 3 , 1 1 marksmanship26:4
examined5:10 housesl8:20 23:2525:13,2326:15 MARY l:10
example18:1 GAIL l:10 H S C2 5 : l 1 . 1 3 kind 9:15 McKAY 4:I0 6:7
evrmnfes 12:-1 gang7:14l0:7,714:22
5.16 1 5'.7 King 1:106:4 McKay's26:5
exceptions18:7 gangsT:20 k n o w1 3 : 6l 7 : l 2 3 : 1 5 McVICKER 1:7
Excuse17:15 general3:22 6:lI l9:.9 identification 8:4 knowledgel2:5 22:22 meanll:I022;22
Exhibit5:1316:22 give12:1513:14I5:3 identified14:17L5:21 knowledgeable23:13 mechanical23:14
exhibition13:1815:6 given8:10l0:224:22 20:2522:5 known l0:16 member14:22
E)GIIBITS 4:16 25:10 identifies14:12 membersl0:7
experience24:2325:8 go l2:I,21 l5:I2 l7:3 identify5:1516:23 mentioned 24:3,6,17
expert l0:21 25:3,8 Ignatius1:182:l 3:19 L3:13 24:18
expertise9:5 10:23 going13:715:1,16 5 ; 8 , 1,72 56 : 1 8 , 1 9 Lately 19:19 merit25:25 26:4
23:16,20 16:12,21,23I8:5 27:1028:8 Laurie l:23 2:6 5:4 Merrilees3:216:.10,10
explosives19:6 20:323:2324:20,25 illegal 13:2116:120:22 28:5,23 17:13
exposition11:6 g o o d1 1 : 42 3 : 1 1 22:2023:17 law 3:4 12:2,9,10 l5:1 met25:16
extensive 24:23 government22:5 illegally13:2515:15 17:9,2120:5 23:21 MIKE 1:7
graduatedT:23 immediate 8:16,18 26:6 MJJ 1:5
F Grass15:22 immediately12:14 laws12:6,1814:6 months7:3 21:2
F 18:6 guilty 15:9,11 implicated23:6 16:18 motionl8:9l9:4
fairgroundsll:13,22 gun 8:7 l0:9,1I,16,25 incidents12:2414:24 learn16:1425:8 Motorcycle10:7
ll:25 ll:4 L2:7l3:Il,l7 include18:14 learned14:202l:5 musket18:3,3
familiar10:151l:15 14'.2,2,16 15:116:11 including5:21 LEE 1:5 Ml22:7
federalS:ll 12:6l4:5 16;1719:1,9,17,20 INDEX4:1,16 . Lerda l:23 2:6 5:428:5 M222:4.7
18:212l:10,10 22:5 20:2,L1,18,19 2l:13 industryL8:24,25l9:4 28:23
felonyl5:ll 2l:14,2422:6,17,23 information13:6 Let's l7:3
fifteen6..24 23..5,17,19,21 24:2 initial9:4 levers22:10 N 1:5
find 10:312:12 24:19,20,25 25:.9,14 interest20:324:20 license14:21 name6:159:24
fine6:16 25:15,I7 interested19:2425:6 licensedl4:.9,10,13 named28:12,20
firearm 12:18I7:9,10 guns10:413:2314:13 28:19 licenses 18:21 Napa20:182l:4,7,I9
I7:20,2118:2,24 14:1919:6,2120:1,2 interrogated5:10 Lincoln 3:6 narcotic8:3
25:9,2I 20:19,22 2l:I,6,20 interrupt15:16 Iitigation 16:24 narcotics7:12
fîrearms6:118:12,12 2l:23 24:18,23 intoxication8:4 little 6:24 20:13 narrower 17:25
9:5,5,12,19,23,23 guy 1:4l0:13 investigation7:9,19 Iocation l3:7 20:21 necessary 27:5
1l:2,7l4:415:14 8 : l l 2 2 : 1 62 3 : 4 2I:21 needless 16:9
l8:8,1L,L4,2119:12 H investigations 20:9 locations11:10 neither14:8
2l:9 24:24 I I l : 1 82 : l 3 : 1 95 : 8 investigative 9:9 long6:237:225:2 Nevada13:.18,22l4:2
first2:35:3,96:158:7 27:1028:8 investigator7:11 Ionger10:l l4:I1,12,14,14,20
12:252l:3 HAGGERTY 1:11 issued6:1 lookl2,.2116:21l8:5 1 5 : 1 , 1l86 : 4 , 5
EsquireDeposition
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l 3 :I outsidel3:ll productions18:11 28:14,24 sending 20:18
nineT:10,17 9:821:2 program9:20 reports8:21,24 sent2l:1322:14
nomenclature 8:139:6 prohibited9:19,24 representing 6:3 separate12:24l5:5
10:24,25ll:l P 3:23 l1:1 requirement26:3 September 14:17
Nordykel:3,46:3,3 packaging8:4 promoted7:8 reserved5:21 sergeant7:8
11:1620:ll2l:13,24 PAGE4:18 promotersl6:17 resident14:12,14 served20:20
22:2024:825:19 paid22:13 prop l8:20 residents 13:2214:14 Services2:3
26:6 parking 16:2 property9:11,13 l8:8 14:2515:6 set5:I I 28:2I
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23:5 22:13.14 23:4 prosecution2l :4 responsibilities 9:3,7,9 seven22:4
normally 19:.8,25 participants18:9 provide23:20 responsibility9:4 Shorthand2:6 5:528:5
Nortenol0:7 parties28:18 provisionsl0:15 10:ll 28:14,24
north 9:9 10:12 parts2I :14,2522:1,2,3 public19:9 retired7:14 shot19:15
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notified 12:19 patrolT:6 purchased15:14,24 right5.,24 7:158:1,20 show10:12,16ll:5,12
number19:2424:25 patrolman7:6 purchasingl5:7 8:259:3 13:1017:22 ll:20l3:214:2,3
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8:8 permits18:21 questions23:2526:16 ll:2312:7,1113:11
objections5:20,2L permittees18:20 26:17 13:1715:16,17l9:l
observed20:l0 person13:2,514:16 Sacramento I:19 2:3 19:1720:I2l:13,24
obtained14,'21 20:17,25 2l:4,6,14 3:245:3,69:1328:3 23:19,23 24:225:Il
occasion12:22 23:1224:14,16 Randy8:24 28:6,25 similar18:25
occasions 15:5 personal19:17 Raynond3:136:7 safety25:9,14,16,21 sir 6:9 15:1916:20l9:7
occur l0:9 13:17,22 personally5:6 read 16:2527:3 26:3 situation26:8
16:125:21 person's9:24 really25:1 sale19:8 small14:819:1623:14
occurred2l:4,19 picturel8:10 19:4 reason24:17,2225:2 sales8:4,7 Smith8:10
office3:11 6:87:18 piece22:4 reasons19:18 Sallie1:4ll:1612:13 Solano8:19
officer20:6 place11:2420:128:12 record5:166:2017:3,5 22:2024:7,826:6 somebody 20:623:16
offices3:4 5:3 places1l:I2,18 17:6,15,16,16,18 S a n3 : 77 : 1 8 sorry 10:20l2:l 15:19
Off-the-Record17:I7 Plaintiff 3:3 2l:8 SantaI l:21 sounds24:22
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20:13,16 2l:16,22 pled15:9,11 refer6:13,14 SCOTT1:11 spring23:9
22:l,ll,l5,l9 23:19 plunger22:923:10,11 referenced9:21,22 scouting25:20,24 ss28:2
oOo4:135:1226:22 police7:1,5,24 8:1 referring24:I 0 Scouts26:1 stands25:13
open23:19 possess 18:11,21 refreshing 21:17 search7:2520:21 started7:1423:I
operate22:21 possession 9:1910:1 regarding23:5 2l:18 state3:205:66:207:24
operation8:13l0:25 1l:l l8:8 regulated26:Ll,l3 secondl7:4 ll:12 12:613:12,25
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ORDINANCE
NO.
AN ORDTNANCE
AMENDING SECTTON CODE
9.12.120OF THECOUNTYORDTNANCE
THE POSSESSION
PROHIBITING ON COUNWPROPERTY
OF FIREAR¡IJIS
ot t'åt*ËT'i?Tr"åttãfi3i**oFALAMEDA
rHEBoARD
'
seêr¡otr
|
Thatthe OrdinanceCodeof the Countyof Alamedashallbe amendedby revisingSection
9.12.120to readas follows:
Countyroads;
.--(6) A personlawfulfyusingthe targetrangeoperatedby the AtamedaCounty
Sheriff,
Q A federalcriminalinvestígator or tawenforcement officer;or
- (8) A memberof the militaryforcesof the Stateof California
- '- or
-' of
- the United
stateswhileengagedin the performahce of his or her dutv. .-
(g) . Severability.lf any provisionof thissectionor the applicationthereofto any personor
circumstance isheld invalid,suchinv¿lidityshatlnot aifectanyotherpàvisiän or
applícation
of thissectionwhichcan be giúeneffectwithoutttrbi""ãi¡äprouiiiåÀo.'
applicatíon,
andto this endthe provisionlof thissectionare severablã.
'
.SECTION II
.
This ordinanceshalltakeeffectand be in fdrcethirty (30) daysfrom and aftei the date of
passageand befoiethe expfration of fifreenOaysafiei itépaósageit shallbe publishedonce'with
the namesof the membersvotingfor and againstlhesamein ihé lnter-City -r eipiesJ,
---' á
newspeper publishedin the Countyof Alarneda.
. WILMACHAN
Presidentof the Boardof gupervisors
Counþ of Alameda, State of Callfornia
ATTEST:CRYSTALK. HISHIDA,Clerk
of the Boardof Sup'ervisors,
Countyof Alameda
Approved o$ fo Form
By