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Topic: Vernon's Opinion of Mentalism?

Posted by: Gumar Oz DuBar (Jan 2, 2014 9:28am)

I don't own Revelations and admittedly, my knowledge of The Professor is limited. I'm aware of his mastery with cards and some traditional magic, maybe cups & balls or some silks or basic m******e o***. But did Vernon ever show an interest in mentalism? I've heard a supposed quote from him, essentially saying that no one could fool him - except Slydini (who obviously wasn't a mentalism, as far as I know). However was it not true that Vernon was on good terms or at least knew Dunninger? Surely he knew other mentalists as well, and none of the most legendary and pioneering names in mentalism could fool him? Not saying that I find it untrue, just not that much literature on Vernon and mentalism, as far as I've been able to find. So basically, the main question(s) would be: Did Vernon ever show an interest in mentalism, or only "traditional magic"? What was Vernon's view on mentalism, if it was ever publicly given? What did he think of Gellar and of Randi?

If the answers to these questions can be found on Revelations, please let me know. It should be noted that I'm only interested in Vernon's view/opinion of mentalism (or contributions if he ever gave any, which I don't believe he did. Could I be wrong about that?) not about card or traditional magic. Thanks! Message: Posted by: sjrw (Jan 2, 2014 1:10pm)

Look at Vernon's work on the Brainwave deck, also see Vernon's "Out of Sight, Out of Mind" for a great thought of card effect. From reading Vernon's biography by David Ben I got the impression that Vernon favoured a thought of card over a chosen card. I'm not aware of any Vernon mentalism/mental magic which does not use playing cards though. Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (Jan 2, 2014 1:15pm)

Don't forget his "Five Card Mental Force." He also wrote up an early handling of the Center Tear which, I believe, can be found in Tarbell. I first met Vernon back in the early eighties when I first worked the Magic Castle. We had many long discussions while sitting at the bar or at his little table in the corner. Yes, he knew Dunninger and, as far as I could tell, liked him. He also knew and liked Annemann. (It seemed like he knew EVERYBODY.) He didn't, however, like most mentalism acts. But, then again, he didn't like most magic acts either and could be scathingly ruthless in his opinions. His loud comments to less than competent performers like, "Why don't you take up stamp collecting?" are legendary. It didn't help that in his later years his hearing wasn't always that good and he tended to talk loudly when "whispering" to a friend sitting next to him in a Castle audience. Many performers dreaded hearing him say something like, "This guy stinks!" during their first appearance. (I imagine more than a few actually did consider stamp collecting.) Vernon appreciated good entertainers who could mystify an audience with clear cut and

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easily describable effects. He often remarked that if an effect could not be clearly described in one sentence, it was no good. What he didn't tolerate was mediocrity. I considered myself lucky that he liked my act. (In the middle of my first performance he "whispered," "He's another Dunninger!") The stuff about no one being able to fool him, though, is mostly hype. ANYONE can be fooled. One night, after hours, I sat with Vernon, Larry Jennings and a few others around a table taking turns doing card tricks for each other. I knew I had no business at that table with guys of that caliber. But when the deck came to me, I decided to do my own version of the first effect I ever say Vernon do on the old Steve Allen show- his classic "Follow the Leader." My routine was exactly like Vernon's original, but I had adapted a move I learned from Howie Schwartzmann to change the ending. I really believe it fooled him, or at least caught him by surprise. Later, when I was getting up to leave we shook hands and he gave me the greatest compliment I ever received. It was kind of like the last scene in "The Hustler" when Minnesota Fats finally compliments Fast Eddie. Vernon smiled at me and said, simply, "You do good card tricks, kid." I was on top of the world. The next night he presented me with a limerick that he'd written after seeing my presentation of Russian Roulette in the Parlour of Prestidigitation. It wasn't great poetry but it meant a lot to me. I included it in my 1982 book, "The Art of Mentalism." Here it is: A famous mentalist named Cassidy most decidedly has the capacity. He lacks any fear when they fire a gun in his ear. It certainly takes great audacity. And audacity was one of the qualities he seemed to admire most. Message: Bob, Great stuff!!! Thank you. Best wishes, Scott Message: Posted by: Jerskin (Jan 2, 2014 1:58pm) Posted by: Scott Soloff (Jan 2, 2014 1:43pm)

I believe Vernon had a version of the CT with tape on a pad. Message: Good point Bob, and great story! Message: Quote: Posted by: Gumar Oz DuBar (Jan 2, 2014 2:15pm) Posted by: sjrw (Jan 2, 2014 2:08pm)

On 2014-01-02 13:15, mastermindreader wrote: Don't forget his "Five Card Mental Force."

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He also wrote up an early handling of the Center Tear which, I believe, can be found in Tarbell. I first met Vernon back in the early eighties when I first worked the Magic Castle. We had many long discussions while sitting at the bar or at his little table in the corner. Yes, he knew Dunninger and, as far as I could tell, liked him. He also knew and liked Annemann. (It seemed like he knew EVERYBODY.) He didn't, however, like most mentalism acts. But, then again, he didn't like most magic acts either and could be scathingly ruthless in his opinions. His loud comments to less than competent performers like, "Why don't you take up stamp collecting?" are legendary. It didn't help that in his later years his hearing wasn't always that good and he tended to talk loudly when "whispering" to a friend sitting next to him in a Castle audience. Many performers dreaded hearing him say something like, "This guy stinks!" during their first appearance. (I imagine more than a few actually did consider stamp collecting.) Vernon appreciated good entertainers who could mystify an audience with clear cut and easily describable effects. He often remarked that if an effect could not be clearly described in one sentence, it was no good. What he didn't tolerate was mediocrity. I considered myself lucky that he liked my act. (In the middle of my first performance he "whispered," "He's another Dunninger!") The stuff about no one being able to fool him, though, is mostly hype. ANYONE can be fooled. One night, after hours, I sat with Vernon, Larry Jennings and a few others around a table taking turns doing card tricks for each other. I knew I had no business at that table with guys of that caliber. But when the deck came to me, I decided to do my own version of the first effect I ever say Vernon do on the old Steve Allen show- his classic "Follow the Leader." My routine was exactly like Vernon's original, but I had adapted a move I learned from Howie Schwartzmann to change the ending. I really believe it fooled him, or at least caught him by surprise. Later, when I was getting up to leave we shook hands and he gave me the greatest compliment I ever received. It was kind of like the last scene in "The Hustler" when Minnesota Fats finally compliments Fast Eddie. Vernon smiled at me and said, simply, "You do good card tricks, kid." I was on top of the world. The next night he presented me with a limerick that he'd written after seeing my presentation of Russian Roulette in the Parlour of Prestidigitation. It wasn't great poetry but it meant a lot to me. I included it in my 1982 book, "The Art of Mentalism." Here it is: A famous mentalist named Cassidy most decidedly has the capacity. He lacks any fear when they fire a gun in his ear.

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It certainly takes great audacity. And audacity was one of the qualities he seemed to admire most.

Wow! What an enjoyable read, thank you Bob. Also insightful as always and answered/covered my questions. Thanks for the response and info. Others as well. Message: Quote: Posted by: mastermindreader (Jan 2, 2014 2:44pm)

On 2014-01-02 13:58, Jerskin wrote: I believe Vernon had a version of the CT with tape on a pad.

Yes. That's the one I was referring to in Tarbell. He originally cut a small hole in the top sheet of the pad and applied a piece of tape from the other side. That's where he'd stick the stolen center, which was opened out with the tip of the pencil or pen while "doodling impressions" on the pad. The method really became obsolete with the introduction of double sided tape. Message: GumarYou're welcome. The only question I didn't answer was about his feelings toward the whole Geller/Randi thing. I have no idea. We never talked about it. My guess is that he probably didn't care one way or the other. Message: Quote: Posted by: Gumar Oz DuBar (Jan 2, 2014 3:05pm) Posted by: mastermindreader (Jan 2, 2014 2:50pm)

On 2014-01-02 14:50, mastermindreader wrote: GumarYou're welcome. The only question I didn't answer was about his feelings toward the whole Geller/Randi thing. I have no idea. We never talked about it. My guess is that he probably didn't care one way or the other.

Indeed. For the first point, I figured as much from your lack of a response. As for the second point, I assumed as much based on your wonderful stories about him on a personal level. I thank you for your detail though, very much appreciated.

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Message:

Posted by: Gumar Oz DuBar (Jan 2, 2014 3:11pm)

Oh and for the record, one of the few things that I did/do know about Vernon and mentalism was his CT. I thank you all for your responses though. Message: Thanks for sharing. I really enjoyed it. Message: Great story ! Message: Posted by: Medifro (Jan 3, 2014 5:50am) Posted by: bofx (Jan 3, 2014 5:36am) Posted by: RCP (Jan 2, 2014 3:37pm)

I'm wondering if he made any distintion between Mentalism and Mental Magic? I realize the distintion was never there till later in his life, wondering if he ever had any thoughts on that. - Feras Message: Posted by: VernonOnCoins (Jan 3, 2014 6:13am)

There's also, Five Card Mental Miracle, from Stars of Magic, or, The Trick That Cannot Be Explained, which in essence has a mentalism feel. I always got the impression he was a pioneer in the think a card plot. There's also an entire section on the Revelation dvd's where Vernon discusses his code. Message: Posted by: VernonOnCoins (Jan 3, 2014 2:00pm)

And let's not forget, Out of Sight Out of Mind. Message: Posted by: Joe Atmore (Jan 3, 2014 2:26pm)

In early years, Vernon's agent was Dunninger's as well. Message: Posted by: BAGWIZ (Jan 3, 2014 3:58pm)

I spent a number of years at the Castle, where Dai Vernon held court almost nightly. Very frequently I saw him spending time with Max Maven, Glen Falkenstein and other performing mentalists. In the Castle library Vernon regularly played cards with Kuda Bux, who perhaps could be classified as a mentalist. My impression of Mr. Vernon was that he appreciated all forms of the art, so long as it was performed extremely well. He obviously took magic very seriously and his expectation of others was that they would do likewise. Only a few times did I muster the courage to speak with him and on the one occasion he asked me to show him whatever I was working on, I was nervous as hell. Funny how a seemingly harmless (and pretty frail back then) old man could make a kid shake in his boots .... But Vernon was the master and we all knew it. He was kind to me, and I appreciated that because I'd seen him rip more than a few people to shreds. I just didn't feel skilled enough to try and hang with him like others did, but I'm sure he appreciated great mentalism; probably not as much as a great card effect, but still ... Message: Posted by: landmark (Jan 3, 2014 11:13pm)

Caf member Bill Palmer once told, in a Caf thread, one of my favorite Vernon stories. Unfortunately, I can't find the post, so I hope he'll forgive me if I re-tell it here. I'll try not to mangle it too much. Bill was an eager young magician, and enjoying himself at a magic convention when, there, in the hotel lobby, he saw Vernon sitting in a corner, away from the madding crowd. Bill thought this was his chance to talk to the great man, so he pulled out a business card, and surreptitiously clipped on a nail writer. "Mr. Vernon, it's a pleasure to meet you, you're one of my heroes. Mr. Vernon would you

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mind please naming a three-digit number?" The Professor paused for a moment and then said, "458." "I see, 458," repeated Bill," as he furiously did the dirty deed, "Is there any reason you chose that number?" The Professor looked at him straight in the eye and said, "As a matter of fact there is. Four, five, and eight are the three most difficult numbers to nail write." Message: Quote: Posted by: BAGWIZ (Jan 4, 2014 1:02am)

On 2014-01-03 23:13, landmark wrote: Caf member Bill Palmer once told, in a Caf thread, one of my favorite Vernon stories. Unfortunately, I can't find the post, so I hope he'll forgive me if I re-tell it here. I'll try not to mangle it too much. Bill was an eager young magician, and enjoying himself at a magic convention when, there, in the hotel lobby, he saw Vernon sitting in a corner, away from the madding crowd. Bill thought this was his chance to talk to the great man, so he pulled out a business card, and surreptitiously clipped on a nail writer. "Mr. Vernon, it's a pleasure to meet you, you're one of my heroes. Mr. Vernon would you mind please naming a three-digit number?" The Professor paused for a moment and then said, "458." "I see, 458," repeated Bill," as he furiously did the dirty deed, "Is there any reason you chose that number?" The Professor looked at him straight in the eye and said, "As a matter of fact there is. Four, five, and eight are the three most difficult numbers to nail write."

Now THAT is a great story!

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