CDI en corto. Resuelto. moto Jinlun 250.

Electronica
por esteban24 el Jue Jun 20, 2013 12:40 pm + ----

Hola compaeros, aqu estamos, bueno hace poco mi moto me dio una avera grave, se me quedo un cilindro sin compresin, as que le e cambiado pistones juntas echo la distribucin y reglado las vlvulas, salgo a probarla y la moto iva como en la vida ha ido pero de buenas a primeras(como otras veces) la moto se queda como a un cilindro, compruebo compresin y todo ok, asi que tiene que ser electrnica, la instalacin esta decidido y ya tengo los materiales se la voy ha hacer entera nueva pero pongo aqu el problema por si a alguien le a pasado por que ami ya me tiene loco y no lo encuentro por ningn lado lo que puede ser, el problema es que a la bobina de alta derecha la entrada que debera de ser en torno a 12v oscila entre 80v 5v 3v 0v 1v y la entrada de la izquierda entre 170v y 90v y sin darle al arranque ni nada la entrada a esta bobina ya da 1,5v todo esto con las dos bobinas desconectadas de los faston de entrada y solo pulsando el botn de arranque, me dejaron unos cdi y nada sigue igual, tambin prob con otro regulador/rectificador y nada sigue igual, la salida que me da el startor es de 50 60 para bateria y demas y de 24 30 para encendido. a alguien le a pasado, la moto arranca y tal y anda pero claro cuando le da se queda sin fuerza y va muy mal, y creo que es la causante de que el cilindro izquierdo se me pegaran los segmentos. unas fotitos del la reparacin ir poniendo fotos del cableado pero mientras os dejo estas pd: e comprado todo en wemoto.com, me a tardado unos 10 das por correos tienen muchas cosas de nuestras chinas y de otras marcas, unas de mis sorpresas al abrir el pedido fue el ver que las

juntas eran para una honda ca125 (la rebel valla) y empiezo a mirar todas las juntas y menos una (la del carburador a la toma que distribuye a los dos cilindros) todas las dems me servan que fuerte. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rF7Gr_FCz8&feature=youtu.be
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esteban24
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Re: Problemas con la electronica

por Atomium el Jue Jun 20, 2013 9:01 pm + ----

Algunos sistemas electronicos para vehiculos lo que hacen es subir el voltaje que le entra a la bobina para que este este mas amplificado a la salida. En 1975 yo frabricada unos encendidos electronicos que creaban unos impulsos, estos eran amplificados por unos diodos y unos condensadores que a la salida me daban un alto voltaje el cual era conducido a la entrada de la bobina de alta. No se si funcionara asi en tu china, puede ser.
_________________

Un cordial saludo Francisco Balbuena www.mecatronica.es

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Re: Problemas con la electronica

por esteban24 el Jue Jun 20, 2013 11:02 pm + ----

ya e encontrado hoy el hijo de ........ que me hacia que diera 1,5v sin darle a nada y 160v dandole al arranque, es un cable del maldito faro de todo el masacote ese que tiene, el que va al cuenta rpm, bueno pues este calecito se rozaba con uno del contacto y si juntas un cable de positivo de iluminacion con el positivo de encendido sacas 160v la madre que me pario que gilipollez y te vuelve loco.... aun asi voy a cambiar toda la instalacion por que estan los cables muy mal

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Re: Problemas con la electronica

por PICIAS el Vie Jun 21, 2013 1:38 am + ----

Me alegro esteban, y pon unas fotitos haber como queda lo del

faro....

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Re: Problemas con la electronica

por Atomium el Vie Jun 21, 2013 9:53 am + ----

Claro, el cable ese que va al cuenta revoluciones toma de ahi los datos para saber las revoluciones.

Lo que hacia era meterle siempre los 12 V

Pues ya sabes otra cosa mas

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Re: Problemas con la electronica

por esteban24 el Vie Jun 21, 2013 11:02 am + ----

es que hay un mamoneo de cables en estas motos de la ostia, porcierto alguien sabe de cuantos Ohm son los diodos que van en el faro? para comprobarlos mas que nada.

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Re: Problemas con la electronica

por Atomium el Vie Jun 21, 2013 11:43 am + ----

Los diodos no se miden en ohmios, se miden amperes, en ohmios es una unidad de resistencia. Saludos
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Re: Problemas con la electronica

por esteban24 el Vie Jun 21, 2013 2:05 pm + ----

Cierto, pero me refiero a las cajillas que van en el faro, por que eso es otra cosa aparte de un diodo no? Es que en los mios no pone nada de nada ni simbolos ni nada

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Re: Problemas con la electronica

por Atomium el Vie Jun 21, 2013 7:56 pm + ----

Segun tengo entendido de otros lo que lleva es un diodo zener, creo que Picias lo cambio.

Saludos
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Re: Problemas con la electronica

por esteban24 el Vie Jun 21, 2013 8:46 pm + ----

Pos pa un diodo zener se le a olvidao a esta gente ponerle caja la ostia a ver si entra picias por aqui y dice que es lo que era eso

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Re: Problemas con la electronica

por pakenroe el Vie Jun 21, 2013 10:41 pm + ----

Buenas amigos perdio estare pero si me buscas me encuentras, bueno vamos a lo que vamos, EESSTTEEBBAAN no te dije que cuando queabamos y reparavamos la china pos si quieres el domingo lo hacemos, avisame por guasa que ya sabes que tu moto es una copia de la mia pero con problemas jejejejejej Saludos a todos:o:o:o:o:o
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Re: Problemas con la electronica

por esteban24 el Sb Jun 22, 2013 10:06 am + ----

jajajaja, que va paco, si tu sabes que es que un dia me dio una aveira y era que no tenia compresion asi que ya dije bueno pues manos a la obra y le e cambiado pistones juntas y e echo los reglajes yo se a quedao de lujo la verdad aunque de las medidas que ponen por hay no me gustan por que pisan mucho yo e puesto 0.05 admision 0.10 escape no taquea nada y lo poco que la probe hasta que me dio el fallo electrico iva de lujo, la aver electrica tambien la tengo medio averigua, pero como los cables me han tocado mucho la moral se los voy a cambiar todos y las conexiones tambien jejjej un saludo. por cierto se me jodio el dia antes de ir a la itv ahora tengo que buscarme un carro o algo para llevarla o irme por los villares o yo que se ajajjaajaj

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Re: Problemas con la electronica

por PICIAS el Dom Jun 23, 2013 2:22 am + ----

Hola.... me llamavais ??? a mi se me fundio uno de esos diodos zener, y agarrate el disparate. me dijo un amigo que le pusiera un fusible aereo. yo no estaba muy convencido ya que como me dijiste tu Atomium el diodo zener hace otras funciones. pero como no tenia el diodo, pense que puede pasar ?? que se funda el fusible ?? total que lo puse, mas que nada por probar y demomento no me a vuelto a fallar.. el diodo que se fundio es el que lleva dos cables y es el que da paso a las luces de posicion. no ostante pienso cambiarlo el el futuro, no sea que me de algun

problema. por cierto el fusible es de 15 amperios y es de coche de esos cuadrados de dos patas...

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Re: Problemas con la electronica

por esteban24 el Dom Jun 23, 2013 6:02 pm + ----

Joder pos pa un diodo le han puesto una caja del copon ajajaja

esteban24

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Re: Problemas con la electronica

por cuco el Dom Jun 23, 2013 9:46 pm + ----

Vaya, pues yo estoy sin luz de posicin rtrasera, y va a ser de ah,podrias decirme Picias, de qu color son..?salir salen en verde y marrn,pero con los problemas que he tenido con el tocho de cables en el foco,habia pensado en puentear la trasera y fuera,en plan chapuyzas,adems tengo uncable a listas marrn yblanco con terminal hembra,que no s donde enchufarlo,me tiene tan quemao que hace tres semanas que est parada,hoy la arranqu,y not la falta de escape (galg a 0.5) as,i que probar el 0.1 de Esteban y a ver...

cuco
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------------------ -- -- -- - - -_ _ __--

hibird 6 pin CDI 250cc help

i have this 2008 hibird atv. i got it running a while back, and havent touched it since( few months) i come back into it find that the started solonoid is stuck, i took off a few wires the previous owner ghetto wired on the atv and now i have no spark, engine turns over and everything just nothing from the spark plug my question is does any one have a wire diagram i can work off, from another atv similar to mine i believe i have to 2 pin wire on the CDI wired wrong

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#2 (permalink) 02-08-2013, 10:09 PM

LynnEdwards
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I assume you have the generic 6 pin CDI (2 pin and 4 pin connectors). Is this correct? They come in two flavors - DC powered and AC powered. Do you know which you have? (You cannot tell by looking - if you don't know we will need to do some measurements with a meter to find out. I'll attach the procedure at the end of this post. Once we know which CDI you have then further testing will be required using the generic AC procedure, or the generic DC procedure. That should point us in the right direction.
Quote:

The 2 plug 6 wire CDIs come in two different designs. One is powered off 12 volts DC, and the other is powered off a moderately high voltage AC which comes from the stator. Unfortunately there is no reliable way to tell the difference between the two by just looking at them. To be sure you need to use a meter to find out which you have:

1) Unplug the CDI, and turn on the ignition. Do not crank the starter motor. Use a meter to measure the *DC* voltage on the pin labeled "AC ignition power" in the wiring harness to both ground pins in the 4 pin CDI connector. If you measure 12 volts DC then you have a DC powered CDI. 2) If you don't measure 12 volts DC on the ignition power pin, then switch the meter over to measure AC volts on the 200 volt scale. While cranking the starter motor, measure the AC voltage on the "AC Ignition Power" pin to the the Ground pin. You should see 40 to 80 volts AC. If you measure AC voltage when the starter is turning then you have an AC powered CDI. Using a meter is the only 100% reliable way to figure out if your CDI is AC or DC powered. But there are some clues you can use that are usually (but not always) correct:

A) DC CDIs tend to be a little larger than their AC powered counterpart. This is because the DC powered CDI needs a bunch more circuitry to convert the 12 volts DC to the moderately high voltage supply that all CDIs must have. B) Most (but not all) DC powered quad ignition systems do not use the kill switch input pin. The CDI connector pin usually has no wire tied to it. AC powered quad ignition systems usually do use the kill switch input pin.

--------------- - -- - -- - -http://forums.atvconnection.com/chinese-quads/331709-kazuma-dingo-250cc-cdi-wiring.html
Kazuma dingo 250cc CDI wiring

Sorry if i post this wrong ( new member ). I got a kazuma 250 because it didnt run. i found the CDI plug was melted. i used wire terminals to slide over the CDI pins and used silicon to hold them in ( no plug ) this worked fine and it ran. but wondering if the placement of wires are correct i'm eating CDI's pretty often. its a 6 pin CDI. the 2 pin plug is fine, the 4 uses stake ons ..no plug.. could anyone tell me the placement of colors. i tryed to match them to the plug and its as follows 1) dark green= ignition trigger 2) light green=ignition coil 3) yellow-black= ground 4) yellow-blue= ground. any wiring diagrams i have found online were to blury to read. thank you

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#2 (permalink) 10-14-2010, 12:56 AM

LynnEdwards

Join Date: Dec 2008

Electrical Expert Likes High Voltage In The Tub! Garage is empty, add now

Location: Tracy, California, USA Posts: 3,229

Your colors and their functions are certainly not common. I don't have a wiring diagram of your quad. The following picture shows how a six pin AC powered CDI is wired:

So take each wire in turn: The ignition coil wire at you CDI should leave the CDI into the wiring harness, and then reappear near the ignition coil and still be the same color. The ground wire will also

disappear into the wiring harness, but look at the colors of all the wires on your quad that are bolted via lugs to the engine frame. Same color? Use a meter to see if the CDI "ground" wire really connected to engine ground through the wiring harness. The timing trigger wire should enter the wire harness and come out (still the same color) at the stator. You can (again) verify this connection with a meter, plus you can measure the resistance of the timing trigger wire to ground (which should be ~ 150 ohms). Also, What kind of silicone (not silicon) are you using? The more common silicones (i.e.bathtub caulking) cure by exuding acetic acid - not at all good for electrical connections. These products smell like vinegar while they are curing. The proper non corrosive silicones for electronics are much less common, and much more expensive. Dow Corning 3145 is a good non-corrosive choice for sealing electrical connections.

----__ -_ __ _ _-- - --__ - --

marktah123
Weekend Warrior Garage is empty, add now Zongshen 250cc No Spark

Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 5

I had the engine out of my quad to paint the frame and when I refitted it my quad will not start because there is no spark. It seems to crank ok. I have checked the cdi and i think it is a DC one. I followed the troubleshooting procedure for it and found the following... 1) Unplug the CDI. Turn the ignition switch on. Set all kill switches the the "run" position. In the wiring harness, look to see if you have a wire on the kill switch pin. If you do, measure the resistance of the kill switch pin to the ground pin on the 20K ohm scale. It should read infinite ohms (same as when the meter leads are hanging free and not touching anything). It should not read zero ohms (shorted). OK 2) Leave the CDI unplugged. Turn off the ignition switch. Set your meter to the lowest resistance scale you have (like 2 ohms or 20 ohms full scale). Measure the resistance of the "Ignition Coil" pin in the wiring harness to the ground pin. You should read something around 0.7 ohms (but not zero ohms). What do your measure? 0.8ohms 3) Leave the CDI unplugged and the ignition switch off. Set your meter to the lowest resistance scale you

have (like 2 ohms or 20 ohms full scale). Measure the resistance of the "Ground" pin in the wiring harness to the the negative battery terminal. You should read zero ohms. What do your measure? 0ohms 4) Leave the CDI unplugged, and turn the ignition switch into the "on" position. Use a meter to measure the DC voltage on the pin labeled "AC ignition power" in the wiring harness to the ground wire on the 20 volt DC scale. You should read battery voltage (12 volts). What do you measure? No Voltage at AC Ignition power 5) Leave the CDI unplugged. Use a meter to measure the resistance of the "Ignition Trigger Pulse" pin in the wiring harness to the ground wire on the 2K ohm scale. You should read approximately 150 ohms. What do you measure? About 108ohms 6) Set your meter down to the lowest scale you have for measuring AC volts. 2 volts would be ideal, but some meters don't go that low. In that case use the lowest scale you have. While cranking the engine, measure the voltage on the Ignition Trigger Pulse pin in the wiring harness to the ground pin. You should measure 0.2 to 0.5 volts AC. What do you measure? 0.15 Volts 7) Now plug the CDI back in. Measure the AC voltage on the Ignition Coil pin to the ground pin using the 200 volt scale. If you have to, use a sewing pin to poke through the wire insulation and then put the meter probe on the sewing pin. But don't hold your fingers on the connection during the next test - there may be high voltage here when the engine is turning. With the ignition on and all kill switches set to the "run" position, crank the starter motor. You should see voltages bouncing around at random values and the meter captures all or part of a spark event. What do you see? Nothing I have also had a look at all the connections and cannot see any breakages.

LynnEdwards
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I have to ask the question: How do you know that this is a DC powered CDI? There are two avenues here: 1) You really do have a DC powered CDI, and you don't get 12 volts to what I call erroneously call in my picture "AC ignition power" [see Note 1 below]. That would be a problem, and we need to go down that path - if you have a DC powered CDI. 2) If you have an AC powered CDI, then you *will* have "no voltage" in your test step (4) response above. We need to unambiguously determine if you have a DC powered CDI or an AC powered CDI to

continue... So here is the procedure for determining which you have:

Quote:

The 2 plug 6 wire CDIs come in two different designs. One is powered off 12 volts DC, and the other is powered off a moderately high voltage AC which comes from the stator. Unfortunately there is no reliable way to tell the difference between the two by just looking at them. To be sure you need to use a meter to find out which you have:

1) Unplug the CDI, and turn on the ignition. Do not crank the starter motor. Use a meter to measure the *DC* voltage on the pin labeled "AC ignition power" in the wiring harness to both ground pins in the 4 pin CDI connector. If you measure 12 volts DC then you have a DC powered CDI. 2) If you don't measure 12 volts DC on the ignition power pin, then switch the meter over to

measure AC volts on the 200 volt scale. While cranking the starter motor, measure the AC voltage on the "AC Ignition Power" pin to the the Ground pin. You should see 40 to 80 volts AC. If you measure AC voltage when the starter is turning then you have an AC powered CDI. Using a meter is the only 100% reliable way to figure out if your CDI is AC or DC powered. But there are some clues you can use that are usually (but not always) correct: A) DC CDIs tend to be a little larger than their AC powered counterpart. This is because the DC powered CDI needs a bunch more circuitry to convert the 12 volts DC to the moderately high voltage supply that all CDIs must have. B) Most (but not all) DC powered quad ignition systems do not use the kill switch input pin. The CDI connector pin usually has no wire tied to it. AC powered quad ignition systems usually do use the kill switch input pin.

[Note 1]: Six pin DC powered CDIs and six pin AC powered CDIs look the same, and cannot be distinguished by appearance alone. In my photobucket picture links I took a big shortcut and used the same picture for AC and/or DC powered CDIs. But the "power pin" is labeled "AC Ignition Power" when, in fact, it is "DC Ignition power" on a DC powered CDI. Don't let my laziness confuse you. I will fix this someday when I have some extra time...

#3 (permalink) 02-09-2013, 01:01 PM

marktah123
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Thanks for the quick reply. My mistake about the cdi, after testing again I saw ac voltage when cranking with the ignition on between the ac ignition pin and ground pins on the cdi. I will search for the ac cdi testing procedure now and then I will post my results here...

#4 (permalink)

02-10-2013, 09:03 AM

marktah123
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So I have followed the testing procedure below and this is what I have found.... To troubleshoot no spark problems on a 6 pin AC powered CDI it makes sense to start in the middle (the CDI), measure as much as we can and branch out from there. For the CDI to do its thing it needs power, a trigger pulse, and it must must be inhibited via the kill switch input pin. 1) Unplug the CDI. Turn the ignition switch on. Set all kill switches the the "run" position. In the wiring harness, measure the resistance of the kill switch pin to the ground pin on the 20K ohm scale. It should read infinite ohms (same as when the meter leads are hanging free and not touching anything). It should not read zero ohms (shorted). Infinite 2) Leave the CDI unplugged. Use a meter to measure the resistance of the AC ignition power pin in the wiring harness to the ground wire on the 2K ohm scale. You should read approximately 400 ohms. What do you measure? 258 Ohms 3) In a similar fashion measure the resistance of the Ignition Trigger Pulse pin to the ground pin. You should see 150 ohms or so. What do you measure? 108 Ohms 4) Switch your meter over to measure AC volts on the 200 volt scale. Leave the CDI unplugged. While cranking the engine, measure the voltage on the AC Ignition Power pin in the wiring harness to the ground pin. You should measure 40 to 80 volts AC. What do you measure? 45-65 Volts 5) Set your meter down to the lowest scale you have for measuring AC volts. 2 volts would be ideal, but some meters don't go that low. In that case use the lowest scale you have. While cranking the engine, measure the voltage on the Ignition Trigger Pulse pin in the wiring harness to the ground pin. You should measure 0.2 to 0.5 volts AC. What do you measure? 0.150 Volts 6) Now plug the CDI back in. Measure the AC voltage on the Ignition Coil pin to the ground pin using the 200 volt scale. If you have to, use a sewing pin to poke through the wire insulation and then put the meter probe on the sewing pin. But don't hold your fingers on the connection during the next test - there may be high voltage here when the engine is turning. With the ignition on and all kill switches set to the "run" position, crank the starter motor. You should see voltages bouncing around at random values and the meter captures all or part of a spark event. What do you see? Nothing

#5 (permalink) 02-10-2013, 10:07 PM

LynnEdwards
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Sounds like a bad CDI. You've got all the proper inputs to the CDI: A trigger signal, adequate AC power, and a good ground. You've got no voltage to the ignition coil on the output side of the CDI. You've got the proper resistance looking into the ignition coil. And no spark.... It points to the CDI... It is possible that there is a shorted turn in the ignition coil that could bring the output voltage to the coil to zero because it's input inductance goes to zero, but this is very unlikely. It is also posssible that you've made some measurement errors, and based on this we are going down a dead end street. Even if I was there and made the measurements myself, I would still put this possibility near the top of the list. I always measure again and again, just to make sure. It is so easy to make a mistake, and then you're off down the proverbial garden path... So please redo you test measurments just to make sure, then look at the CDI. But it seems unlikely that your CDI would fail just because you painted the frame. This is another reason to recheck your measurements...

#6 (permalink) 04-01-2013, 11:05 AM

marktah123
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Ok so eventually got some time to get back to this. I rechecked the measurements twice and have got the following: 1. Infinite 2. 281 Ohms 3.105 Ohms 4. 52-53 Volts 5. 0.170 Volts 6. Nothing I have tried a new CDI and I am getting the same values. I have also fitted a new coil and still no spark.

--------------- -- - --

------------______--

Lifan 250cc Dinosaur

I bought this quad non-running a while back. It ended up having an idle jet clogged, so I replaced the carbs and it has run fantastic since. Until now..... Details: I think this is an older 4 wheeler, its a hunting style with racks. It has an inline twin cylinder. It has 2 carbs (one feeding each intake), 2 exhausts (one coming from each cylinder head port), and two coils (one feeding each plug). It is a copy of an older Honda Rebel 250cc engine from what I have gathered through my research. Honda rebel parts look identical and fit the bike with no issues. It has a foot shift (one down, 4 up) just like a motorcycle. The reverse is cable pulled and the mechanism is located in the rear end. It has one cdi box that has the two separate plugs (6 total pins I believe) with the plugs with the rounded edges. It also has a 9 pin square connector going to another box similar to a cdi but it doesn't seem to be connected to the coils and I don't know what it does or where to get a replacement. The problem: I first started getting intermittent no start and/or dying while riding conditions. They would go and come occasionally with no changes made to the bike. It finally started running very rough consistently. The diagnosis: I diagnosed it as the passenger side plug not getting fire. I suspected the cdi, so it was replaced with one off ebay. Still no fire. I then suspected a coil and/or wire issue. I checked the wire and found a blockage. I traced it to the boot (for some reason a short would not show through the boot). So I ordered some new coils with wires. Still no fire. This whole time the drivers side will fire. So I took a black with yellow stripe and green wires off the driver coil and put them on the passenger side and it would then fire. So for some reason the passenger coil is not being told to fire. I traced the black with a yellow stripe back to the cdi box and check continuity and both coils showed good wiring. I checked both greens for grounds and no issue there either. I'm not for sure if this cdi I bought will even fire a second coil as

most china bikes seem to be 1 cylinders now-a-days. What's my next move?

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#2 (permalink) 09-25-2011, 11:40 PM

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LynnEdwards
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Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Tracy, California, USA Posts: 3,229

I've never seen of of these quads. So I'm just guessing... Look at the following link: http://www.hondarebelforum.com/image...ng_diagram.jpg Note in this Honda Rebel wiring diagram the 6 pin CDI (2 connector - 4 pins and 2 pins) has *two* outputs to drive the coils individually - both are yellow/black wires. This is quite different from the standard 6 pin CDI where the same connector has only one pin for the coil drive and *two* ground pins. Recently there was a post from another two cylinder quad where both coils in parallel where driven from a single CDI output wire (from the same 6 pin CDI connector pattern). This is confusing to say

the least... I'm wondering if your original setup was one that needs separate outputs from a special CDI. If true, it makes sense that when you plug in a generic CDI with only one coil drive output you only get spark on one coil. So what are the colors from the wiring harness on the CDI? Do you have two black/yellows?

Again, I really don't know. I'm just fishing for clues to the puzzle

#3 (permalink) 09-25-2011, 11:44 PM Join Date: Aug 2010

01ssreda4
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Right, the picture you posted is how mine is setup. Individual wires on individual pins running the two separate coils. I'm thinking the china CDI box I went to replace it with is for a single cylinder bike. I cannot find a 250 twin cdi box, but honda rebels CDIs are easy to locate. I may go with a genuine Honda part. I saw the other 250cc thread and it sounds like he may have a similar engine to mine.

#4 (permalink) 09-25-2011, 11:46 PM

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01ssreda4
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I also have the nine pin unit that appears similar to a cdi but Im not sure of its purpose/function. Curious......

#5 (permalink) 09-25-2011, 11:59 PM Join Date: Aug 2010

01ssreda4
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This is what it looks like. Mine is solid white, painted by me.

#6 (permalink) 09-26-2011, 01:08 AM

LynnEdwards
Electrical Expert Likes High Voltage In The Tub! Garage is empty, add now

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Quote:

Originally Posted by 01ssreda4 Right, the picture you posted is how mine is setup. Individual wires on individual pins running the two separate coils. I'm thinking the china CDI box I went to replace it with is for a single cylinder bike. I cannot find a 250 twin cdi box, but honda rebels CDIs are easy to locate. I may go with a genuine Honda part. I saw the other 250cc thread and it sounds like he may have a similar engine to mine.

I've also seen twin cylinder wiring diagrams where the two coils are driven from a single CDI output wired in parallel. I would think this scheme wouldn't be optimum for a number of reasons, but since the wiring diagrams exist there is a possibility that it will work. If it were my quad I would try moving the second CDI output wire in the harness and tie it in parallel with the first. The see if you get spark in both cylinders...

#7 (permalink) 09-26-2011, 01:13 AM

LynnEdwards
Electrical Expert Likes High Voltage In The Tub! Garage is empty, add now

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Quote:

Originally Posted by 01ssreda4 I also have the nine pin unit that appears similar to a cdi but Im not sure of its purpose/function. Curious...... Remote modules usually have nine pin connectors and they tie into the ignition system. But I've never seen one of these on a 250cc quad. So what are the wire harness colors on this nine pin connector?

#8 (permalink) 09-26-2011, 04:03 PM

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01ssreda4
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Quote:

Originally Posted by LynnEdwards Remote modules usually have nine pin connectors and they tie into the ignition system. But I've never seen one of these on a 250cc quad. So what are the wire harness colors on this nine pin connector? My remote module has a similar connector to this as well. It is located under the seat. This box is located up in the front near the cdi box and other ignition related items. As for the colors, I will have to check and get back to you. For the firing of the coils, if they fired off the same wire, that would mean they fired at the same time, and I know the pistons don't cycle together. You can tell by the way the motor runs that they fire the mixture 360 degrees from each other. I'm pretty confident the honda coil should fix the problem. But, time will tell.

#9 (permalink) 09-26-2011, 05:47 PM Join Date: Aug 2010

01ssreda4
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Here's my alarm box and connector:

#10 (permalink) 09-26-2011, 05:56 PM Join Date: Aug 2010

01ssreda4
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Here is the mystery box on the left, and the ebay replacement cdi on the right (noted to only be about 2/3 the size of the one I took off). Looking at the connector on the mysterious box, the wires were: Yellow Red/yellow stripe Green/blue stripe Blue/red stripe Middle pin was empty Green Green/blue stripe Black/white stripe Black 8 wires on a 9 pin square connector

--- -- - - -- -

-- -- - - - -____ ----

I've also seen twin cylinder wiring diagrams where the two coils are driven from a single CDI output wired in parallel. I would think this scheme wouldn't be optimum for a number of reasons, but since the wiring diagrams exist there is a possibility that it will work. If it were my quad I would try moving the second CDI output wire in the harness and tie it in parallel with the first. The see if you get spark in both cylinders... -So do you have a total of 5 wires coming out of the stator? Three yellows, a blue/white, and green/white?

Three yellow wires to the regulator is standard fare for a three phase battery charging scheme. Blue/White (CDI timing trigger) and Green/White (trigger return) are standard colors for the CDI trigger function. If your CDI is DC powered then that's all the wires needed out of the stator. If your CDI is AC powered then we need another wire (usually black/red) coming out the stator as well

Just to verify that the blue/white and green white go to the timing pickup coil inside the stator, take a meter and set it to measure resistance on the 2K ohm scale (2000 ohms). Measure the resistance between the blue/white and green/white wires into the engine. What do you measure?

You say that this blue/white wire from the stator branches off to other wires. This part has me a little confused normally the ignition timing trigger signal does branch off to other things. It is conceivably possible to kill the spark to an engine by shorting this wire to ground, but it isn't commonly done. Hence my wonder...

First let's verify that the blue/white and green white wires *are* your CDI trigger signal by the above test.

And so I can be thinking ahead, how many wires connect to your cdi, and what are the colors?

How much effort are you going to put into this? How much do you know about this quad's history? Suppose you get all the electrical stuff to work enough to produce spark, and it still doesn't start? Are you up to going through the carburetor, measuring engine compression, rebuilding the engine if necessary, etc? This quad looks to me to already be someone else's basket case .

I'm just trying to get you prepared about the possible outcomes here... Traduccin: Tambin he visto los diagramas de cableado de dos cilindros donde las dos bobinas son expulsados de una sola salida CDI cableados en paralelo . Yo creo que este esquema no sera ptima para una serie de razones , pero como existen los diagramas de cableado hay una posibilidad de que funcionar . Si fuera mi quad me gustara tratar de mover el segundo cable de salida CDI en el arns y lo atan en paralelo con la primera . El ver si le da chispa en ambos cilindros ... Mecanico: As que tienes un total de 5 cables que salen del estator ? Tres amarillos, blanco azul / blanco y verde / ? Tres cables amarillos al regulador es estndar para un sistema de carga de la batera de tres fases . Azul / Blanco (CDI disparador temporizado ) y verde / blanco ( retorno de activacin) son los colores estndar para la funcin de disparo CDI . Si el CDI es DC alimentado entonces eso es todos los cables necesarios fuera del estator. Si el CDI se alimenta AC entonces necesitamos otro cable (por lo general negro / rojo) que sale del estator , as Slo para comprobar que el camino blanco azul / blanco y verde a la bobina captadora momento dentro del estator , tomar un metro y la puso para medir la resistencia en la escala de 2K ohm ( 2000 ohmios ) . Mida la resistencia entre los cables azul / blanco y verde / blanco en el motor. Qu se mide ? Usted dice que este cable azul / blanco de las ramas del estator frente a otros cables. Esta parte me tiene un poco confundido - normalmente la seal de disparo tiempo de encendido no se ramifican a otras cosas. Es concebible posible matar la chispa para un motor por un cortocircuito en este cable a tierra , pero no se hace comnmente . De ah mi asombro ... Primero vamos a comprobar que los cables blancos azules / blancos y verdes * son * la seal de disparo CDI por la prueba anterior . Y por lo que puedo estar pensando por delante , cuntos cables se conectan a su cdi , y cules son los colores? Cunto esfuerzo se va a poner en esto? Cunto sabe usted acerca de la historia de este quad ? Suponga que usted reciba toda la materia elctrica a trabajar lo suficiente como para producir la chispa , y que todava no se inicia ? Ests preparado para pasar por el carburador, la medicin de la compresin del motor , la reconstruccin del motor si es necesario, etc? Este quad A mi me parece que ya sea un caso perdido de otra persona. Slo estoy tratando de llegar preparado sobre los resultados posibles de aqu ... Dueo:
Hi, the blue/white and green/white go from stator back to CDI, and 3 yellow to the rectifier. The green/white goes to the CDI direct. The blue/white goes to CDI and 3 other places. These 5 are the only ones going to stator, all other wires come out of the gearbox. CDI has black/yellow (coil), blue/white and green/white (stator), and green (earth), all on a 4 pin plug,

then out of the 2 pin plug there is only power. There is no kill switch wire. Would it be possible for the branch off to go to tacho and kill switch to ground ?? The closest wiring I can find to mine where one of the stator wires does branch off (apart from the ground), it goes to a kill switch, a rev limiter and the main dash cluster. but other aspects of that diagram are different, so I'm not sure. Thanks.

MECANICO:
From your wire colors it appears that your quad is using the standard colors for each function. That helps a lot. It also appears that your CDI is DC powered. It is perfectly legit to kill spark by grounding the blue/white trigger wire with a switch. I've never seen it done that way - normally (for quads that don't use the CDI kill switch input) I see a switch in series with the trigger wire. In other words the switched is turned on to connect the trigger signal to the CDI (allowing spark), and switched off to disconnect the signal (killing spark). But again grounding the trigger signal to kill spark will work just fine.( Pero , de nuevo a tierra la seal de disparo para matar la chispa funcionar bien) I didn't think about tachometers. It is possible that a tachometer could work off the trigger signal. Same with a rev limiter. You could always get the quad ignition circuitry working with these extra connections disconnected. To kill the engine unplug the trigger wire at the stator (it is all low voltage there since your CDI is DC powered and there is no high voltage AC power winding in the stator). Then add the kill switch and other stuff one at a time. The thing about chinese wiring diagrams is they rarely match an unknown quad exactly. But there are only a few ways to wire up an ignition system, and a few ways for the battery charging system, and a few ways for a starter interlock, etc. In combination, that makes for a lot of wiring possibilities. But if you take just it one system at a time (say the ignition system) you can usually find a diagram that matches fairly closely. But other systems probably won't match, and you'll have to use a different wiring diagram for that part.