Proud To Fly A Turboprop - Q400 Vs ATR72

Proud to fly a Turboprop: Q400 vs ATR72 | The Flying Engineer
unmht://unmht/file.5/C:/Users/Vasin/Desktop/Ref - Q400 NextGen [201...
ItstimeforanotherAvs.Bcomparison.Thistimearoundthough,itisnt betweenAirbusandBoeing,buttheworldstwomostpopularregional turbopropaircraft,theATR72andtheBombardierQ400. TheIndianshorthaulsegmentwas,andisruledbytheATR42andtheATR72 turbopropaircraft.AproductoftheventurebetweenAleniaAerospaceof ItalyandEuropeanConsortiumEADS,theATRenjoysamonopolistic presenceatthesmallaireldsofIndia,lowtracdensityroutes,orthe challengingaireldsofthenorthandthenortheast.Ifitsoneaircraftthat mostaireldsknow,itstheATR72/42.Nootheraircraftiestoasmanyaireldsasdoesthisfamily. Unsurprisingly,thisextremelypopularATR72isalsothemostdreadedamongstthe yingpublic.Thestereotypedimageofanaircraftwith propellersforcesmanytoraisetheireyebrows.Butthe ightsareshortandthefareslow,makingtheexperience bearable.Buttotheairlines,itsaircraftliketheATRthat bringinthemoney.NowonderthatKingsheremploys 25ATR72500,whileJeties20ofthesametype.Its muchmoreeconomicaltooperateaturbopropthanajet. Anyday. Notbeingtherstairlineinthecountrythatemploys aircrafttypethatareinappearancedierentfromthe aircrafttypethattheirairlinenamesuggests,Spicejetis Q400inSpicejetColors poisedtopleaseBombardierwiththegradual introductionof15Q400turbopropaircraft,toy missionssimilartotheATR72500.AndforthersttimeinIndia,thepublicmayinfactbeProudto yaturboprop.Withaquietcabinthatisquieterthansomejetairplanes,seatsthatareclaimedtobe morecomfortable,windowsthatallowforagreaterviewofthemagnicentterrain,hugeoverhead stowagethatcantyourtrolleybags,andspeedsthatlagajetbyonly35minutesonatypical1hr route,whilebeingmuchcheaperthanajetaircraftofcomparablecapacity,theQ400willdeliverajet experienceataturbopropseconomics.Poisedtorevolutionisetheexperienceofshorthaulight,are theDASHingQ400NextGensfromBombardierAerospace. Inthisarticle,focusshallbeontheQ400NextGen,whilealsofairlycomparingthetwoaircraftthatwill dividetheshorthaulskiesovertheIndiansubcontinent.Sitbackandrelax,whileweserveyouthe turbopropofyourchoice. TurbopropinIndia ItwasintheOctoberof1999whenanATR72500wasinductedbyJetAirways,markingthedawnof theturboproperaamongstprivatecarriersinIndia.AccordingtoNikosKardassis,CEOofJetAirways,
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The turbopropisidealfroma costperspectivetoservice smallfeederroutesgiventhetra c(demand)to capacity(supply)ratiosand moreimportantlyfortheiroperationaleconomics.Giventhisrationalewehave feltthattheturbopropisidealforsome destinationsonourdomesticnetwork.Theseaircraftareespecially idealwhenitcomestoprovidingairlinkstosmallertownsand citiesgiventhatsome oftheexistingairports haveonlyjustbeenremodelled toaccommodatesuchsmalleraircraft.Theeconomicsofaturbopropmade immediatesenseonshorthaulroutes,openingmarketspreviouslyconsideredunprotabletooperate on.AirDeccan,whichwasallabouteconomics,startedoperationswithfourATR42500sinthe Augustof2003.KingsherAirlinesinductedtheirrstATR72500intheMarchof2006.Inabusiness whichpromiseshairlineprots,turbopropaircraftseemtobetheonlywaytoopenupnewmarkets andstillmakeprotwithlowloadfactors.Butthesubcontinentknewonlyonemanufacturer:ATR. Theneedforsomethingbetter KingsherAirlinesBangalorePunesectorhasablocktimeof1hr20minuteswhenoperatedbytheir AirbusA320.Thesamesector,whenoperatedbytheirATR72500,takes2hours.ThisATRight operatesatclosetomidnight,whenpassengertracislow,andspeedisofnogreatconcern.Butat othertimesoftheday,whendemandishighonothershorthaulsectors,onewouldforeseetheneed tointroduceanaircraftthatcanyasimilarnumberofpassengers,withsimilaroperatingcosts,while generatingahigherrevenuepotentialbyoperatingmoreightsperday.Toreword,anaircraftthat iesalmostasfastasajetandyet,isaseconomicalasaturboprop:theidealcrossbreed. ThePropJet ConsideringthatSpicejetwouldliketohonourthelastthreelettersintheirairlinename,theairline placedarmorderfor15BombardierQ400stowardsthelastquarterof2010,withoptionsonanother 15.TheQ400isBombardiersanswerforaregionalturbopropthatreplacesajet,whilebehavinglikea jetandyet,signicantlyreducingaircraftnoiseandfuelconsumption. TheQ400andtheATR72aircraftarebothtwinengine,turbopropaircraftcapableofcarryingaround 70passengers.Bothaircrafthaveahighwing,withsixbladedpropellersattachedtoPratt&Whitney enginesonthewing.BothsportaTtail,andfourabreastseating.The600variantoftheATR72 featuresafullglasscockpit,muchlikethatontheQ400.Thisiswherethesimilaritiesend. TheQ400isamuchlongeraircraft,whichappearssleeker,withaspinerunningallthewayfromthe wingboxtotherudder.Theenginesarelarger,andextendbeyondthetrailingedge,unliketheATR72 whereintheenginepodstaperounderthewingitself.Themainlandinggeararehousedandhinged totheengines,ratherthantothebellylikeinanATR.ThefuselageoftheQ400appearscleandueto theabsenceofthisbelly.ThenoseofaQ400islongerandsharper,whilethatoftheATRissmaller, andblunt.Ifoneweretogobyappearances,theQ400slooksspeakofspeed,powerand aggressiveness.TheATR72appearsdocile.Herearetwocaseswhereonemayjudgebooksbytheir covers,andnotbedisappointedbytheirtrueperformancecharacteristics. Tostartwith,theQ400andtheATR72500/600aresimilarinweight,buttheQ400isequippedwith enginesthatdelivernearlytwicethepowerofanyvariantoftheATR72.TheQ400cancruise comfortablyatamaxspeedof360kts,whiletheATR72cruisesatamaximumof276kts.Onasector thattakes2hoursfortheATR72toy,theQ400caneasilyyinunder1hour40minutes,slowerthan ajetbyonlyaround15minutes.WhiletheATR72strugglestoclimbtoitsserviceceilingof25,000ft (FL250),theQ400reachesthisaltitudeinminutes.Ofcourse,thisperformancedoesntcomefree:the Q400canlandupconsumingnearly30%morefuelthantheATR72500onthesamesector.But attemptingtoosetthecostofenhancedfuelconsumptionisitscapacitytocarrybetween6to12 morepassengersthantheATR72,atspeedsthatarejetlike,whileconsumingmuchlessfuelthanajet ofcomparableseatingcapacity.
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Designedwiththeperformanceofajetbutthetechnologyandeconomicsofaturboprop,theQ400 standsoutasatrueregionalPropJet. Economics Theprimarymotivationforascheduledoperator, andmoreimportantlyalowcostcarrier,toinvestin anaircraftistheeconomicsthatitpromises. Thebiggestboontoregionalturbopropaircraft operatorsinIndiaisthattheirturbinefuelisunder thedeclaredgoodscategory,attractingasalestaxof only4%ascomparedto28%forotheraircraft weighingabove40,000kgs.Toppingthatisthe exemptionfromlandingchargesforaircraftwithless ATR72vsQ400usageinagivenoperationalday than80seats.Sincebothaircraftfallintothese categories,theeconomicsofaturbopropstart makingimmediatesense. TheaveragesectordistanceintheregionallydenseportionofIndia,thesouth,is300NM.Considering thatathighspeedcruisetheQ400takesanaverage1hr02minofyingtime,andtheATR72takes 1hr15min,andthatbothaircraftstartoperationsat6:00amlocal,andwrapupby11:30pmlocal,the Q400caneasilytoneextraightinthat17.5hourperiod. Overandabovethis,theQ400thatSpicejetwillreceivewillbeconguredwith78seats.TheATR72s inJetAirwaysareconguredwith66seatsinsomeand68intheother.InKingsher,alltheaircraft absorbedfromerstwhileDeccanareconguredwith72seatswhiletherestareconguredwith66 seats.Asaresult,theQ400landsupwithacapacityof6to12morepassengersperight. Consideringthatbothairplaneshavethesamehoursintheair,thattheQ400soverpoweredengines spendlessertimeatahighpowertoreachcruisingaltitude,andthattheQ400senginesarenotused ongroundintheHotelmodelikeintheATR,theexpectedcostofmaintenanceofbothairplanes maybeconsideredsimilar,thoughtheQ400hasstrongreasonstobecheapertomaintain.Landing chargesdontapplytobothairplanes,andbothairplanesmayneedtwosetsofcrewtooperatethe ightsinthat17.5hourperiod.However,themostsignicantoperationalcost,especiallyinIndia,is fuel:TheQ400sfuelconsumptionisnearly30%morethanthatoftheATR72undersimilar300NM environmentalconditionsinhighspeedcruise. BombardierclaimsthatinaEuropeanEnvironment,the78seatQ400sdirectoperating costs (DOC)fora 300Nm sectoris 8.8%more thanthatof RevenuePotentialoftheQ400whencomparedtoa66seatATR72anda72seatATR72 a68seat ATR72500.ATRontheotherhandclaimsthatinthesameenvironment,theDOCfora300Nmsector foraQ400is25%morethantheATR72500.ConsideringthatBombardierandATRareontheextreme endsoftheestimatingscale,anaverageof16.9%revealsthatoverthis17.5hrperiod,theQ400willcost 1.3timesmoretooperatethantheATR72500.ConsideringATR72seatingcapacitiesof66,68and72 passengers,theQ400has1.31,1.27,and1.2timestherevenuegeneratingpotentialoftheATR72500 respectively,inthesameday.Ifoneweretogobythesegures,theQ400doesntdowellagainsta68
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or72seatcapacityATR72.Infact,evenifoneweretoconsiderBombardiersgures,andcompare themwithanATR72with72seats,theQ400willonlyfareaswellastheATR72(despitetheextra ightontheQ400)asfarasthisconservative,nonoperatorspeciceconomicalcomparisonis considered. Whileavailablerevenueseats,asusedinthecomparisonabove,isonlyindicativeofpotential,onemay appreciatethatloadfactors,whicharedependentonseasons,playabigroleinprots.TheATR72sin Indiamaybreakevenwithapassengerloadofaround2025passengers.AsperBombardier, consideringalowcostcarrierscostandfarestructure,theQ400intheUSandEuropean300Nm environmentbreaksevenat45seats.ThismeansthattheQ400operatormustsellsignicantlymore seatsperightjusttobreakeven. Finally,theacquisitionpriceofbothaircraft:TheQ400islistedatapproximatelyUS$30M,whichis US$7MpricierthantheUS$23millionlistpriceoftheATR72600.Whilethesearelistprices,usually, themarketpriceisatadiscountfromthelistpricewhichvariesbasedontheaircraftquantityand individualairlinenegotiationanddeals. Operations i.Groundhandling TheQ400thatSpicejetwillreceivewillhaveasingle classcabinwith78revenueseatsata30seatpitch;all seatsfacingforward.Withthesamecomfortable30 seatpitch,theATR72canseat72passengers; However,thiswillincludetworearfacingseats, causingsignicantdiscomfortandlossofprivacyfor sixpassengers.
Q400v/sATR72500CabinLayoutandDoors
TheQ400hasforwardandrearpassengerdoorson theleft,andaservicedoorontheaftrighthandside.Passengerboardingisfromthefrontdoor,and notamongstthechaosofthegalleyservicelikeinanATRwherebothpassengerboardingandgalley serviceoccurattheaftdoors. TheQ400hassignicantlylargercargocompartmentswithsignicantlylargeraccessdoorsas comparedtotheATR72.Thecargoholdsarededicatedandnotsegmented,unlikeinanATR72where themaincargoholdsituatedattheforwardfuselageissegmentedtoallowcockpitaccess.Besides, bothcargosectionsonaQ400maybeaccessedcompletelyfromtheoutside,unlikeintheATRwhere therearcargoholdmustbeaccessedfromwithinthecabin.Consideringthehighercargovolumetric eciency,theQ400has156%(438ft3)theeectivecargovolumeoftheATR72(281ft3). Whenitcomestocargoloading,theATR72sforwardcargosectioniseasiertoload,asthecargooor isabout1meterhigh.However,intheQ400,theforwardcompartmentisseldomusedforpassenger baggage,andtherearcargohold,whichisabout1.5high,willrequiretheuseofamobileramptoload cargo,asisdonewithaEuropeanQ400operator. BoththeATR72andtheQ400cancomfortablybeturnedaroundin25minutes. ii.GroundPower TheATR72hasafeaturebywhichtherighthandenginemaybeputintheHotelMode,whereinthe engineiskeptrunningatidlepower,butthepropellerspreventedfromrotatingbypropellerbrakes.In thisHotelmode,theATR72issuppliedwithelectricsforaircraftpower,andpneumaticsforair conditioning.Althoughtheconceptofsavingcostsandmaintenancetimebyusinganormalenginefor
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groundoperationsoundsgood,itposessomemajordrawbacks.Forone,groundpersonnelwhichneed accesstotherightsideoftheaircraftcannotapproachtheaircraftwhentheengineisstillrunning becauseofthesafetyhazardinvolvedwithapropellerbrakethatmaysuddenlygiveway,andsecondly becauseofthehotgasesfromthedownwardpointingexhaust.Thispreventsaircraftrefuelling,while alsomandatestheservicedoortobeclosed.Insuchacase,thegalleyneedstoberelledfromthe passengerentry,leavingtheaircraftwithonlyoneentranceandexitforthecrew,passengers,and service. Besides,incaseofa10kttailwindinthisHotelmode,anacelleoverheatwarningmaybegenerated. Forthis,theoperatingmanualrecommendsparkingtheAircraftwiththenose45righttotheupwind. However,parkingstandsdonotallowforsuchexibility. Duetothesemultitudereasons,thecrewshutitdown9timesoutof10,leavingtheaircraftwithout anyairconditioningorbackuppowersource(atplaceswherenoGPUisavailable).Onlyinsmaller airportslikeAggatiwheretheaircraftisnotrefuelledandnoGPUisavailable,theHotelmodeiskept running,buttheservicedoorclosed,makingforveryuncomfortableoperationswithjustonedoor. Secondly,evenwhentheengineislefton,theairconditioningsystemrarelyperformswellenoughto makeanydierenceincabintemperature(whichhasnowbeenbetteredinthenewerATR72s). Thirdly,thisresultsinenginewearandtear. TheQ400ontheotherhand,hasadedicatedgroundpowersourceonboardwithitsAPU(Auxiliary PowerUnit).The61kgHamiltonSundstrandAPS1000APUprovidestheaircraftwithpneumaticsand electricpower,butislimitedtogroundoperationsonly.Theadvantagesaretwofold;rstly,theAPU maybeusedanytime,atanyairport,withoutanyhazardposedtothegroundcrew.Secondly,and mostimportantly,unlikeintheATR,theengineslifeisnotaected.AsensorturnsotheAPUas soonastheaircraftisairborne. However,theQ400ssourceofpowerongroundalsohasitsshareofproblems,asaroundtheworld, crewshadcomplainedaboutunreliableAPUsonboardtheQ400.Afteradoptingseveralstandard operatingproceduresregardingAPUoperation,theirreliabilityhassignicantlyincreased,thoughit doesgiveuponceinawhile. Despiteusingtheengineforpower,thefuelconsumptionontheATRintheHotelmodeisonlyabout 110kg/hr,whichisalmostthesameastheQ400sfuelburnontheAPU(100150kgs/hr,asobserved operationally).However,whentheairconditioningontheATRdoesntperformwellenough,thecrew slightlyadvancethepowerleversontheengine,resultinginafuelburnofabout130kg/hr. Butunsurprisingly,ATR72orQ400,moreoftenthannotagroundpowerunitisusedfortheelectrics, andanaircart(whereavailable)forairconditioning.Thissavesonaircraftmaintenance,andreduces operatingcostbysavingonjetfuel. iii.FlightOps&Performance.
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Q400vsATR72500/600performance TheQ400sPW150Aengines,eachhavingnearlytwicethepowerofthePW127M/Fenginesthatthe ATR72scomettedwith,havesignicantimplicationsontheoperationalplanningofightswiththis airplane. Themaximumtakeoweight(MTOW)oftheQ400sbasicversionisnearly28,000kgs,whilethatofthe ATR72500is22,800kgs,makingtheMTOWoftheQ40023%morethantheATR72.However,the payloadoftheQ400,at8625kg,isonly18%morethantheATR72500.Thisdiscrepancyisattributedto themuchhigheroperatingemptyweightoftheQ400,whichisabout17,600kgs,36%morethanthatof theATR72500.TheQ400hasbigger(andconsequentlyheavier)engines,anduseslittleorno compositesinitsaircraftstructure,unliketheATR72whichextensivelyusesprovenlightweight compositesinthewing,andtailplane. WiththepowerfulPW150Aengines,however,theQ400has50%morepowerperkgoftheaircraftat maximumtakeoweight,incomparisontotheATR72500.Thisextrapoweriswhatdeterminesthe terrainsurroundedhighaireldswhichtheQ400maybeoperatedto,thecruisingspeedand consequentlythetriptimeofthisoverpoweredbeast. Tostartwith,theQ400cantakeoandlandfromaireldsthatare10,000ftASL,whiletheATR72500 islimitedtoaireldsof8500ftASL.Atsealevel,ona20Chotday,afullyloadedATR72500clearsan obstacle55ftinheight,atadistanceof1000mfromtheendoftherunway,whiletheQ400clearsa 125fthighobstacleatthesamedistance,underthesameconditions.Thistremendousclimb performanceallowstheQ400,atMTOWtoreachFL200in12minutes,whiletheATR72reachesthe samealtitudeinthesameconditionsin21minutes.Withbothaircraftat95%MTOW,theQ400can reachFL250in1618minutes,whiletheATR72,althoughcertiedtoFL250,justcannotytothis altitude. Incaseofanenginefailure,theQ400canmaintain17,500ft,whiletheATR72withoneenginecan maintainonly11,000ft.Witha6,500ftmargin,theQ400canbedispatchedtoregionswithsignicant terrain,clearingobstacleswithoneenginethattheATR72simplycant. Forexample,thesectorthattheATR72isdeployedon,inKingsher:Dharamshala,issurroundedby terrainonallsides,exceptthesouthwest.Theminimumoroutealtitude(MORA),inthegridin whichitislocated,is23,500ft.Tothesouth,thegridMORAis14,200ft;tothewest,theMORAis 16,600ft,whiletothesouthwest,theMORAis3,800ft.SincetheDharamshalaightisbasedonvisual ightrules(VFR),theaircraftisdispatchedtothishillyterrain,relyingonpilotskilltosteerclearof terrainincaseofanengineout.Althoughthestandardoperatingproceduresauthorizesagoaround, itisnexttoimpossibleatthisaireld.TheQ400,ontheotherhand,caneasilyexecuteagoaround. Withasingleengineout,theQ400caneasilyclearterrainonall3offoursides,the23,500MORAgrid beingtheonlyconcern. Forothercriticalairelds,suchasKulluandShimla,KingsherusesitsATR42aircraft,duetorunway lengthlimitationsandterrain.TheATR42has2,160shafthorsepower(SHP)engines,lendingita powertoweightratioof0.23SHP/kgatitsMTOWof18,000kg.WhilethislendstheATR42abetter climbperformancethantheATR72,theQ400stilloutperformstheATR42with0.33SHP/kg,evenifthe enginesontheATR42areupgradedtoPW127M. Atsealevel,andatMTOW,theATR42500needs1,165mofrunwayfortakeo.Underthesame conditions,theATR72500needs1290mofrunwayfortakeo.TheQ400,despiteitshighermass, higherpayload,andhighertakeospeeds,needsjust1,300mofrunway,orlesserwhencarryingthe samepayloadastheATR72.Atcertainairelds,suchasShimla,whichhasarunwaylengthof1,158m, theQ400mayoperatefromthisrunwayunderreducedload.Whentakingofromsuchshortairelds
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withalowermass,theQ400sclimbperformancewillbesignicantlygreater. TheQ400sperformanceissimplyamazingforaregionalturboprop;itbehavesmorelikeajet.The aircraftcanyatamaximumtrueairspeedof360ktsatFL200(20,000ftabovesealevel),whiletheATR 72hitsitsmaximumof276ktsatFL170.ThisspeedadvantagelendstheQ400tremendousexibility. Asexperiencewithotherairlineshasshown,theQ400canyatitsmaximumspeedwhenbehind schedule,orcanyatalongrangecruisespeed(consumingsignicantlylesserfuel)whenaheadof schedule.ThislendstheQ400greaterexibilitythanitsperformancelimitedEuropeancounterpart. Eventhespeedsattakeoarephenomenal:TheATR72,onrotation,climbsoutat125ktsatMTOW, whiletheQ400climbsoutat155ktsatMTOW.Uponreachingtheaccelerationaltitude,theQ400can accelerateto250ktsmuchsooner. BoththeATR72andtheQ400canpullohighperformanceapproachfeats:tomaintainapproach speedsmuchgreaterthan200ktstillafewmiles,andthenconguretheaircraftforlanding.The ATR72500canmaintain240ktstill7NMfromtouchdown;manytimes,thisspeedhasbeenmaintained tillonlyafewmilesbeforetouchdown,andyetfastenoughdeceleratedandconguredtheaircraftfor landingataspeedof110kts.Inthisprocess,turbopropaircraftovertakejetsonapproach,makingjet aircraftthebottleneckinapproachscheduling. ThenalapproachspeedsoftheQ400arehigherthantheATR72s:basedonweight,andapsetting thespeedsvaryfrom101ktsto129kts.Typically,theQ400hasanalapproachspeedof115ktswith aps35.WhiletheATR72fallsintoacategoryBaircraftbasedonspeeds,theQ400fallsinto categoryC.ButtheapproachminimaforacategoryBaircraftarelowerthanacategoryC aircraft,givingtheATR72theedgeovertheQ400indegradingvisibilityconditions.Thiscanspellthe dierencebetweenamissedapproachandalanding. Withthisjetlikeperformance,theQ400maybetreatedasajet,preventingairportcongestion normallyattributedtothelackofunderstandingofaturbopropsperformancebyairtraccontrollers. Forthisreason,BombardierwentonaroadshowinIndia,educatingairtraccontrollersofits performance.IftheATCtreatsthisasajet,(whichitshouldwiththeATRaswell,atleastasfaras approachisconcerned),theQ400caneasilytintojetslotsondeparturesandarrivals,reducing potentialdelaysassociatedwithturbopropaircraft.Thiscanleadtoabetterontimeperformance.But howeectivetheroadshowhasbeenistobeseen;KingsherhadtriedtogetAirTracControllers toyinthecockpitsofATR72aircrafttobetterunderstanditsperformanceandcapabilities,butsadly, thatdidnotworkout. TypicalfuelconsumptionlosestheQ400outtotheATR72.Forexample,a296NMmissiononan ATR72500fromHyderabadtoGoa,isplannedwithatripfuelof913kgs,andayingtimeof1hr14 minutes(74minutes),atFL180(nearMTOW).AQ400ying300NMatFL220for1hr7minutes(5 minutesslowerthanotherwisepossible),wouldrequireabout1,200kgsoftripfuel.Forjustagainin7 minutesovertheATR72,theQ400s300kgextraburnisntquiteappealing.Performanceaside,foran ATR72andaQ400ying9ightsaday,theQ400landsupconsuming985,000kgsextrafuelmorethan anATR72,thistranslatingtoaroundINR4.5CrintodaysvalueofATFforturboprops.Whilethis gureappearsbig,simplemathwillshowthatthe300kgsextrafuelwillcostINR13,800more, translatingtoeachofthe78passengerspayingjustINR180moreperticket,ifonlyfuelweretobe considered.Butairlineeconomicmodelsarecomplex,andvaryfromairlinetoairline. iv.Maintenance&DispatchReliability TheQ400NextGenpromisestokeeptheaircraftmoreintheairandlessinthemaintenancehangar, withintervalsbetweencheckssignicantlyincreased:theAcheckintervalhasbeenextendedfrom 400hrsto600hrs;theCcheckintervalhasbeenextendedfrom4000hrsto6000hrs.TheAcheck
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intervalfortheATR72500is500hrswhiletheCcheckintervalis5000hrs.ThismeansthattheQ400 NextGencangeneratesignicantlymorerevenuebetweenchecks. WhiletheQ400willclimbataveryhighrateandcruiseat360knots,AugsburgAirways(whichies undertheLufthansaBanner)iesatreducedpowersettingstoprolongenginelife.Thecrewclimbthe aircraftat850rpminsteadof900,cruiseat850rpm,andneverexceedaninterstageturbine temperature(ITT)of670Cwhilethemaximumis800C.Thisresultsinaclimbrateofbetween1,800 and2,500feetperminute,whichprovidesacomfortablecabinattitudeforthepassengers.Cruiseisat 345knotsinsteadof360.SuchenginehandlinghasallowedAugsburgtoextendthelifeofthePratt& WhitneyPW150AenginesontheQ400.Theprolongingofenginelifeisnotpossibleonthe ATR72500/600,asthesignicantlylowerpoweredenginesneedtoberunathigherpowersettings. TheQ400hasa99.4%averagedispatchreliability,andthisguresomewhatsurprisesBombardier. Theamazingthingisthatwehaventmadestructuralchangesinthebasicdesignoftheaircraft;yet thedispatchreliabilityisalotbetter,probablyduetoavailabilityofinventory,skilledpersonnel,and accumulationofvaluableexperienceleadingtobettertrainingandunderstandingoftheairplane., saysSunderVenkat,director,sales(Asia)atBombardierAerospace.ATRclaimsthedispatchreliability oftheATR72500tobeover99%,makingbothairplanesalmostequallyreliablefordispatch. PassengerComfort Thetoughestimpressiontoerasefromthemindsofthetravellingpublicisthetwistedviewonany airplanethathaspropellerblades.ThepropellerdiameterontheQ400is13.5ft,whilethefandiameter ofthelargestjetengineinaviationhistory,theGE90enginesthatpowertheBoeing777,isonly10.7ft. Suchdimensionsdontmisstheeye,andintheeyeofmost,anypropisaloudyingmachine employingoldtechnology.TheQ400hastwoPrattandWhitneyPW150Aturbopropenginesthatdrive thesixbladedDowty(nowpartofGEAviation)propellers.Aturbopropengineinessenceisajet enginewithagearboxtoincreasethetorque(theturningforce)ontheshaftwhichnallydrivesthe propellers;thisincreasedtorqueavailableattheexpenseoftheshaftspeed. Butaslowershaftimpliesslowerpropellers,andanythingthatmovesslowerthroughtheairproduces signicantlylessernoise.Yettherewillbevibrationandnoisefromtheenginesandthenonshrouded propeller,butwhencomparingthenoiseinthecabinofaQ400oranATR72500withthecabinnoise experiencedintheBoeing747400supperdeck,itsthementionedturbopropsthatstandquieter. Eventhenoisepollutionexperiencedaroundtheairportfromtheseturbopropsisfarlesserthanmost commercialjets. AsthepropellersturnontheQ400sengines,theypushairupagainstthefuselage.Thisphenomenon causesthefuselagetoexperiencesomeexingwhichcanresultinunwantednoiseandvibration.The Q400hasenginesthatdelivernearlytwicethepowerofthePW127M/Fenginesthatarettedontothe ATR72500.Asaresult,thereisboundtobemorenoiseandvibrationinthecabin.Bombardiergot innovative,andemployedaActiveNoiseandVibrationSuppression(ANVS)systembasedon technologythatwaspatentedaroundthe1950storeducenoiseinaircraftcockpits.Throughthe strategicplacementofover40microphones,theANVSsystemmeasuresthesevibrationfrequencies throughoutthecabin.Thisfrequencyisanalyzedandanequalfrequency180degreesoutofphaseis senttoActivelyTunedVibrationAbsorbers(ATVAs).TheATVAs,placedbetweentheexteriorand interiorwalls,pushbackagainstthisvibrationwiththeoutofphasefrequencytoeectivelycancel thevibration.Sincethevibrationiscancelled,noisegenerationisalsoeliminatedrightatthesource. Thissystemresultsinacabinthatisupto28dBquieterthanotherwise.Inaddition,passivenoise dampeners,asusedintheATR72500,helpreducelowfrequencynoiseandvibration. TheQ400NextGenistheonlycommercialturbopropavailabletodaytomakeuseofthe(ANVS)
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system,withwhichtheaveragecabinnoiseof7779dBAislowerthanthatinanAirbusA318/319,and around24dBquieterthantheATR72scabin.Althoughanoisedierenceofaround24dBisbarely perceivabletothehumanear,BombardierstatesthatbasedonEuropeanworkingstandards measurements,thislowernoisecutspassengerfatiguebyonethird. Anyaircraftisatitsloudestinthetakeoandclimbphases.TheQ400reachesthesamecruise altitudeastheATR72inaroundhalfthetime,givingitspassengersfurtherrespitefromnoisemuch sooner. TheQ400can,inallconditions,easilyreachFL250(25,000ft),whiletheATR72500cannoteasilyreach thisaltitudeinmostconditions.TheresultistheQ400clearingmoreweatherthantheATR72,allowing forasmoother,lessturbulentride. OtherchangesmadetotheQ400NextGencabinaremostlycosmeticinnature,suchasLEDlighting, largerbins,anddishedsidewalls;mostofwhichareofnoconsequencetoaneconomicallysensitive passengerofalowcostcarrier. Safety AstickyissuefortheQ400sreputationistheseriesofmainlandinggearaccidentsin2007that plaguedtheQ400eetofScandinavianAirlines,theagcarrierofDenmark,NorwayandSweden. Withinaspanof3days,twoQ400ssueredaccidentsduetotherightmainlandinggearcollapsing.In theverynextmonth,anotherQ400sueredanaccidentwiththecollapseoftherightmainlanding gear.Theverynextday,SASdecidedtoimmediatelydiscontinuetheuseoftheQ400. Withinthesameperiod,anAugsburgQ400returnedtoMunichafterthenosegeardidnotextend, andlandedwiththenosegearup. ThersttwoSASaccidentswererelatedtoseverecorrosioninthemainlandinggear,whilethethird accidentwasrelatedtoablockedoricewithintheactuatorassemblywhichpreventedthecomplete extensionoftherightmainlandinggear.TheAugsburgaccidentwasduetoathecorrosionofaspring. Butthiswasnotall.AnAllNipponAirways(ANA)Q400landedatKochi,Japan,withathenosegear retracted.ThisledBombardiertoadviseallQ400operatorsaroundtheworldtoinspecttheaircrafts frontlandinggeardoormechanism.APorterAirlinesQ400hadtoreturnshortlyaftertakeofrom MontrealsTrudeauAirportwhenthelandinggearfailedtoretractaftertakeo.InanotherPorter Airlinesincident,thelandinggearwouldnotextendthenormalway,andhadtobeloweredusingthe alternatemechanism.IntwootherSASincidents,thelandinggearfailedtoretractaftertakeo. Alltheaboveincidents,withtheexceptionofoneintheDecemberof2006,occurredin2007. Butthesignsofanimpendingaccidentwerepresent,andanearlyagwasraisedbyJapansCivil AviationBureau(JCAB)in2006itself.JCABhadaskedBombardiertoimprovethereliabilityofthe Q400s,following52caseswhereQ400shaddeclaredemergenciesorhadtoreturntodeparture airports.FollowingtheaccidentsinvolvingtheSASQ400s,theAccidentInvestigationBoardof Denmarkrecommendedreviewingthedesign,thecerticationandthemaintenanceprogramofthe MainLandingGearretraction/extensionactuatorandrodend.In2008,theFAAproposedan AirworthinessDirectivethatmandatedincorporationofnewweightonwheels(WOW)andsteering harnessesthathaveanewconduitconstruction.TheQ400sreputationforsafetywasliterallyonshaky legs. BombardierintroducedmodicationstotheinserviceeetfollowingtheSASincidents.These modicationshavebeenincorporatedintheQ400NextGenaircraft,includinganewmetallurgy appliedtotheactuatorpistonandrodinthemainlandinggear.
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Bombardierstatesthatthelandinggearhasbeenmodiedtoovercomeevenpotentialmaintenance issues.Sincethemodications,therehavebeennoissueswiththeQ400slandinggear. Inalloftheseincidentsandaccidentsattributedtosystemerror,notasinglelifehasbeenlost.Onthe otherhand,theATR72212(thepredecessortotheATR72500,thoughnomajordierenceslieinthe twotypes),hastakenaway136livesintwoaccidentsspaced16yearsapart;bothaccidentsaresultof thesameissue:icingonthewingleadingtolossofcontrol.TheATR72500hasbeensuitablymodied tobetterhandleicing,andhasacleansafetyrecord. Anothersituationthatcouldleadtoapartialorfulllossofcontrolcouldbeacontrolsurfacejam.Both theATR72andtheQ400haveaprovisiontodisconnecttheotherwiselinkedelevators,allowingforthe captainortherstocertohavefullauthorityovertheirrespective,independentelevators.Butin caseofacontrolwheel(yoke)jam,ATRpilotshavetodowithnothingbuttherudderandpowerlevers tochangetheaircraftsheading.Pilotswhoexperiencethisduringtrainingnditveryhardtocontrol theaircraft.TheQ400,ontheotherhand,candisconnectthecaptainscontrolsfromtherstocers, allowingthecaptaintocontrolthehydraulicallyoperatedrollspoilers,andtherstocertocontrol themechanicallylinkedailerons.Whichevergetsstuck,allowsfortheothertobeused. ThemainlandinggearfortheQ400extendfromtheenginepods,givingitawheelbaseof8.8meters. TheATR72,however,hasthelandinggearextendingfromunderthebelly,givingitawheelbaseof only4.10meters,lessthanhalfthatoftheQ400.Asaresult,theQ400onthegroundisfarmorestable thantheATR72,inallconditions. ThePrattandWhitneyPW150Aisadependableengine,withtheengineassuchnevergivingany problem.Inightshutdowns,thoughrare,areusuallyprecautionaryinnature,andarelinkedtoa malfunctioningPropellerElectronicControl.Precautionaryshutdowns,whennecessary,areseenin theATR72sPW127enginesaswell.
SingleEngineceilingsfortheQ400andtheATR72 Butwhenanenginefails,theQ400,withtheremainingengine,canclimbatnearlydoubletherateof anATR72500undersimilarconditions.Besides,thesingleengineceilingoftheQ400is6,500ftmore, makingtheQ400farsafer,andmoredependableinhillyterrain. TheQ400hasonededicatedtypeII/IIIemergencyexitontheforwardright,andthreeTypeIdoors. TheATR72ontheotherhandhastwoplugemergencyTypeIIIexits,inadditiontotwoTypeIdoors. TypeIIexitsareatminimum20%biggerthanTypeIIIexits,andareatoorlevel,unlikeTypeIIIwhich canbeashighas20inchesaboveoorlevel.Incaseofanemergency,evacuationthroughoneType II/IIIandoneTypeIexit,likeintheQ400(onesideevacuation)ispotentiallymuchfasterthanthrough oneTypeIIIandoneTypeIexit(likeintheATR).
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AircraftHandlingandOtherSystems AskanyQ400pilotwhohasownbothjetsand turboprop,andhewillhandsdowncitehisloveforthe Propjethybrid. Infact,theaircraftsenginesaresopowerful,andthe Q400saerodynamicssofavourablethatitholdsthree recordsforclimbsto29,527ft,assubmittedtothe FdrationAronautiqueInternationale.IntheC1i (16,000kgs20,000kg)category,theQ400holdsthe recordat07:02minutes,59secondsfasterthantheSaab 2000.IntheC1jcategory(20,000kgto25,000kg),the AnAugsburgQ400beinghandown. Q400holdstherecordat08:21minutes,03:04minutes fasterthantheGrummanE2CHawkeye.IntheC1k category(25,000kgto35,000kg),theQ400climbsin11:41minutes,withnoaircraftholdingaprevious record.TheQ400isundoubtedlythefastestamongstregionalturbopropaircraft. AccordingtoMarkBrouwer,arstocerontheQ400atAugsburgAirways,aregionalairlinebasedin Germany,WhentheQ400islightitsalmostasnimbleasasmallGeneralAviationaircraft(suchasa C152),andisadreamtoy.TheclimbperformanceontakeowithalightDashisjustinsane:ona ferryight,withnormaltakeopower(90%)instandardconditions,aps5,speedV2+10(around 140145kt),theQ400willgladlytakeyoutotheskiesatjustunder5000fpmwithapitchofaround 2728degrees.Whenquicklyreducingpowerduringcruisethepropellerswillimmediatelymoveinto shallowpitch,causingsomuchdragfromthetwelveR408propellerbladesthatyoucanfeelyourself gettinggentlypushedforwardastheaircraftdecelerates.Landinganaircraftwiththesecharacteristics (andwhere1%changeinpowermakesquiteadierencewhentheresjustover5000shpperengine behindit)canbeagreatchallenge,butthatmakesitallthemorefun. AheavyQ400willfeelalotmoresluggish,maybeevenjetlikeduetoitssleekprole.AllVspeedsare greatlyincreased,andthereasonwhyBombardierdecidedtousesuchpowerfulenginesbecomes quiteapparent,astheexpectedinitialclimbrateinaforementionedconditionsisreducedtoaround 1700fpm. Hydrauliccontrolsarenecessaryforsuchalongaircraft,andwiththeexceptionoftheailerons,all primaryandsecondaryightcontrolsarehydraulicallypowered.TheATR72hashydraulicspowering onlytherollspoilersandaps,whichcanmakeyingtheATRphysicallymoredemanding. Inbothaircraft,apsarehydraulicallypowered,thoughtheQ400oers0,5,10,15,35ofap positions,whiletheATR72oers0,15,30.Sinceextendingapsaectsaircraftpitch,automatic pitchtrimforappositionsbetween15and35reducesthepitchforcesfeltonthecontrolcolumns. Beingalongaircraft,theQ400isverysensitiveinyawandpitch.Aminorannoyancewhenyingthe Q400isthattheYawDamperhasonlylimitedgovernanceovertherudder,whichmeansthatthe rudderhastobetrimmedmanuallyoneverychangeinaircraftpitchorenginepowersetting,says Mark.Thisproblem,althoughpresentontheATR72,isnotassevere. TheQ400sightdecksportslargeLCDscreens,whichoerconsiderableadvantagesonmany dierentlevels.TheQ400canbequitepitchsensitive,sohavingalargeAI(AttitudeIndicator),his ontheprimaryscreenreallyhelpswhenyingmanually.Thesecondaryscreenscanbeusedbothfor navigation(NAVmode,inthreedierentformats)andsystemsmonitoring(SYSmodeelectrical, doors,fuel,engines)whichmakemonitoringtheaircraftbothinightandongroundabreeze.The EngineDisplayis,justliketheotherdisplays,cleananduncluttered,allowingustodetectandanalyse
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anyproblemswithanengine inaninstant.Thescreens automaticallydimthemselves whenitgetsdarkerandcanbe dimmedmanuallyaswell, whichisidealfornight ights.,saysMark,beaming withenthusiasm. TheATR72500,featuresan ElectronicFlight Instrumentation(EFIS),with twosmallCRT
TheglasscockpitoftheQ400.Imagecourtesy:BombardierAerospace
screensperpilot.Theremaining gaugesareanalogue.TheATR 72600,whichwascertiedbyEASA onlyintheJulyof2011,islateto catchupwithafullglasscockpit, whiletheQ400hassportedthisin everymodeldeliveredsince1998.A glasscockpitallowsforaclean, uncluttered,organisedandprioritized displayofcolourcodedinformation. TheaircraftcomeswithaFlight ManagementSystem,andfor SiddharthSrinivasan,whoisaType RatingInstructorontheQ400,aswell TheATR72600sappealingglasscockpit.ImageCourtsey:ATR asalineCaptainatColgan(serving ContinentalConnectionsroutes), Theglasscockpitisgood.HavingownbothglassandsteamgaugesIdenitelygiveglassthethumbs up.TheFMSisagoodstepandveryimportanttoensurefulluseofthecapabilitiesoftheglass cockpit. ThePW150AenginesontheQ400 arecontrolledbyFADEC(Full AuthorityDigitalEngineControl), unlikethePW127sintheATR whicharecontrolledbyanEEC (EngineElectronicControl).The FADECprovidesautomaticengine protectionagainstoutoftolerance operations,whilereducingthe :PW150ATurbopropEngine.Imagecourtesy:PrattandWhitney numberofparameterstobe monitoredbyightcrew.The FADECalsoprovides semiautomaticenginestarting,whilealsoprovidingenginelongtermhealthmonitoringand diagnostics.Withthenumberofexternalandinternalparametersusedinthecontrolprocesses increasingbyoneorderofmagnitude,aFADECenginecandeliverbetterfueleciency(relativeto identicalnonFADECcontrolledengine). AircraftSalesandProduction
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TheATR72wasintroducedintheOctoberof1989,withFinnairastherstcustomer.Bornoutofan ATR42,inresponsetotheneedfora70oddseatplane,theATR72hasintotaldeliveredcloseto410 aircraftover22years.Themostpopularhasbeenthe500variant,sellingabout290airplanessinceits introductiontoservicein1997. TheQ400,althoughconceivedmuchlater,wasbornoutofasimilarrequirement.Withdeliveries startingin2000,357Q400s(includingQ400NextGen)havebeendeliveredoverthe11yearperiod. Thisonaveragetranslatesto32Q400deliveriesperyear,asagainst21ATR72500speryear. Ifthesenumbersareanythingtogoby,theQ400hasproveditspopularity,thoughthegeographical marketsoftheQ400andtheATR72arealmostcomplimentarytoeachother.TheATR72spresenceis poorinUSAandnonexistentinAustralia,whiletheQ400enjoysagoodrepresentationalloverexcept inAsiawithonly3independentoperatorscumulativelyying32aircraft:ANA,JAC,andPAL Express. WhileATR builds planesin Toulouse, sharing resources and technology with Airbus,and ispartofa European
ATR72600ratesaregoingtoberampeduptoitslimit,duetohighdemandforthetype.
Consortium,BombardierAerospaceissmaller,thoughonlythethirdlargestcommercialaircraft manufacturerintheworld.ThisisenoughtomaketheCanadianmanufacturersignicantlysensitive toworldeconomyandthehealthoftheglobalairlinebusiness.IntheAprilof2008,Withdemandfor turbopropsshiftingtowardthelargermodels,BombardierAerospacehaddecidedtofocusonthe Q400byceasingproductionofallotherDash8variants,leavingATRastheonlywesternproducerofa 50seatturboprop.IntheJanof2009,BombardierwasmullingaboostinQ400productionrates followingadeliverybacklogof113aircraft.Eventually,thisdidhappen.IntheSeptemberof2010, BombardierAerospaceChiefOperatingOcerGuyHacheysaidthataregularstreamofnew,albeit small,ordersforQ400smeantthatproductionratescouldbesustained.ButintheJuneof2011, BombardieroptedtoreduceQ400productionrateswhileawaitingsalescampaignstomaterialise,after fewprospectivecustomersputtheirordersonhold. ForATR,thingsaremovingtheotherwaywiththeirnextgenerationATR72600.Sincelaunchingthe 600seriesprogrammeinOctober2007,ATRhasreceivedordersforatotalof165ATR72600aircraft. DemandfortheATR72600hasbeenverystrongoverthelast12monthsduetoitsapparentattractive operatingeconomics,provenreliabilityofthefamilyofproducts,andlatestavionicssuiteupgradeover theATR72500.ATRdelivered51aircraftin2010andiskeepingproductionin2011intheregionof 5053aircraft.ATRstillplanstoraiseproductionnextyearto70aircraft,andpossiblyfurtherin 201314iftheairframeriscondentthatthesupplychaincancope. WhilethesalesguresarevastlydierentfortheQ400NextGensandtheATR72600,Bombardier andATRseemtosharethesameviewonthefutureoftheairlineindustry.Inits20yearforecast,ATR anticipatesademandfor3,000turbopropswithasalevolumeinexcessof$20billion,andisconvinced that30%ofthedemandfor3,000turbopropsoverthenext20yearswouldbemetbyalargeraircraft. Bombardier,inits20yearforecast,anticipatesatotaldemandfor6,100aircraftin2099seatsegment.
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Ofthe6,100aircraftdeliveriespredictedfrom20112030,2,500aircraftwillbeturboprops.Bombardier isquicktoworkonabrightfuture;a90seatstretchedQ400isonthecards. Conclusion ThenumberofQ400aircraftyingtodayisindicativeoftheaircraftsimmensepotentialandproven economics.NofurtherordersarebeingtakenforthepopularATR72500;thewellselling600will replacethe500ontheproductionline.WiththeATR72600imbibingsomegoodfeaturesofthe Q400NextGen,suchasLEDlitcabinandafullglasscockpit,dierencesbetweentheaircraftare reducing,thoughonlycosmetic. TheQ400andtheATR72aretwoaircraftintheirownleagues,beyondatruecomparison.TheQ400 oersimmenseoperationalexibilityandunparalleledperformance,whilerequiringonlyoneaircraft typeformostmissions.TheATR72winsovertheQ400intheoperatingeconomics,fromthestartto thenish.TheATR72islessexpensivetopurchase,tooperate,andgoesoutwithagoodresalevalue tocostsensitiveoperatorsduetoahighdemandforthetype. SpicejethasbasedtheQ400satHyderabad,serving11destinations.Whiletheairlinewillstartreaping thebenetsofaturbopropinitseetfromthe21stofAugust2011,howtheairlineusestheQ400toits fullest,andthemannerinwhichitcomplementsits737eetistobeseen. Itmustberemembered,theQ400wasdesignedasajetaircraftreplacement;notasamereturboprop. Credits PrimarycontributorswhoytheQ400 MarkBrouwer MarkBrouwerisaFirstOcerforAugsburgAirways, whichisaLufthansaRegionalpartnerairlinebasedin Munich,Germany.Withatotalofjustover1500hrs, around1200ofwhichareontheDash8Q400,hejust hadhisAirlineTransportPilotLicenseunfrozen. SiddharthSrinivasan SiddharthSrinivasanis aCaptainandType RatingInstructor(TRI) atPinnacle,whichis headquarteredat Memphis,USA.His 5000+hrsofexperience includestimeonthe Q400,andtheSaab 340.Pinnacleies routesforContinental Connection. Primarycontributors whoythe ATR72500
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AK AKisaseniorrstocerwithKingsherairlines,yingtheATR72500aircraft.Withmorethan 2200hrsofexperienceandanATPL,sheissettomoveontotheAirbusA320withaprivatelowcost airlineinIndia. AT ArstocerwithaprivateairlineinIndia,ratedontheATR72500.Despitebeingnewlyreleased,he hasaneyefordetailandthirstforknowledgewhichmakeshimanvaluablecontributor.Yet,he humblyadds,IamanFOandhavealongwaytogo.[Photoremoved onrequest] ContributorswhoytheATR72500 BB AcommanderwithKingsherAirlines.Shehasatotalof3000hrs,ofwhich600hrsareincommandof theATR72500.Sheistheyoungestcaptaininthecountry,havinggothercommandattheageof21. CJ AseniorrstocerbasedoutofDelhi,iesboththeATR72andtheATR42aircraftforaprivate airlineinIndia.Hehas2500hrsofyingexperience,andholdsanAirlineTransportPilotLicense. Note:AllIndianContributorsnameshave beenremoved toprotecttheiridentity.
1. Pingback:NowesamolotydlaEurolotu.ATRvs.BombardierStrona18 2. said:Chuck February5,2012at7:58pm HowaboutdoingthecomparisonwiththeEJETS.Usingproductivityandpointtopointnetwork withlongerdistances REPLY 3. said:Deep February18,2012at10:28am Fantasticarticle,greatdetailthankyou. REPLY 4. Pingback:Q400wEurolotinformacje,opinieStrona2 5. said:CaptVishnuUnnithan March2,2012at11:07pm
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Congratulationsforanexcellentarticle.WellDone!!! Anybodyhasanyopinionsaboutthecomparativepilotfatigueexperiencedonthetwoaircraftat theendofaharddaysying?andalsoregardingtherelativespaciousnessofthetwocockpits. REPLY 6. said:chowdhuryjv March10,2012at5:38pm verygoodanalysis REPLY 7. said:David March26,2012at11:22pm Mymaincomplaintwithturbopropsishowpoorlytheyhandleturbulence,atleastfroma passengerspointofview.IyregularlyonATR72aircraftwithAmericanEaglebetweenSJUand STXandIcansaywithouthesitationthatpassengerscoulddowithouttherollercoasterreactionof theightwitheverycloudthattheATRpassesthrough.Granted,ajetmayhavemoreoptionsin avoidingthelessthansmoothairspace,butIcantellyouthatpassengerscringeatthethoughtof yingonthemforthatreasonalone.InmymanyyearsofyingonthembetweenSTXandSJU,I dontthinkIcaneverrememberasinglecompletelysmoothight.NowTHATwouldbesomething toaddress,atleastfromthepointofviewoftheyingpublic. REPLY said:clay July23,2012at7:15pm Iagree100%theATR72issensitivetoroughair. REPLY said:Tim February11,2013at12:24am TheQ400iesmuchhigherthantheATRandhenceabovemostofthecloudsthat,asyoupoint out,oftengenerateuncomfortablebuet&turbulence.Sointhatsense,theQ400has addressedthecomfortissue. REPLY 8. said:AmarKothari March29,2012at1:21am VeryInterstingarticle.theauthorhasdescribedallindetailswithfeedbackfromactualpilots truelysaysthestoryoftwoturboprops.AsIndiaissuchavastpopulatedcountryandasthe middleclassisgrowingsofastwithsuchanimmensebuyingpoweralmost50%ofthatmiddle classisgoingtoysoonorinnearfuture.Newairportsarebeingbuiltandoldonesarerenovated
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thepassangertracwillincreasedrastically.Keepingthatinmindandallthepositivethings describedinthearticleIamcondentthattheQ400willoutrunanyturbopropinhisclass. CongratualtionstoBombardierforjobwelldone! REPLY said:Marcel December13,2013at10:45pm ..theQ400willoutrunanyturbopropinhisclass. ItissafetosaytheQ400isinaclassofitsown,really.. goodarticle,though!! REPLY 9. said:Satyajitters April14,2012at10:03pm Ireallyappreciatethedepthandresearchofthearticle.Justmademyweekend REPLY 10. said:Mark April21,2012at1:00pm IwasarsttimepassengerinaQ400fromNewarktoPittsburghtoday.Ilovedtheplanewithone annoyingexception,noise.Iwasinseat14B.Abovemyheadandalittleaftwasaloudnoiseduring taxi,takeo,approach,andtaxi.Afterlandinggearwasretractednoisewentaway.Ifthenoiseis normalpassengersshouldhavebeeninformedbeforehand.Itwastooloud.IwillNOTyina Q400untilsomeonetellsmewhattherootcauseofthenoisewasandthatitsnormal.Iassumeit washydraulicorAPUbothofwhichIdontlike. REPLY said:Jay May4,2012at12:56pm Itwasmostlikelypartofthehydraulicsystemwhichisturnedonforthestagesofightyou mentioned. REPLY 11. said:Jayson May6,2012at3:13pm JustcamebackfromavacationinCoron,Palawan,Philippines.FlewManila(MNL)Busuanga (USU)onCebuPacicATR72500.Wehadtowaitforsometimeinsidetheshuttlebusparkedon thetarmacbeforewecouldboardtheplanesinceservicepersonnelwereusingthesamedoorused forpassengerentry.Warmcabinbeforetakeosomuchsothatwehadtousefans.Theplanewas fullandtheclimbtocruisealtitudetookareallylongtime.LandingattheshortrunwayofUSU
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(1,200m)wasnotagoodexperience;afterinitialrunwaycontacttheplanebouncedupagain beforeitcouldnallyputitselfintothepavement,shakingtheentirecabin.FlewonAirphilExpress (formerlyPALExpress)Q400onthereturntoMNL.Acceptablecabintempbeforetakeo.The planewasfullbuttheclimbtoouraltitudewasprettyfast.FlyingtimetoMNLwasshorterby around15minutes.ThecrosswindlandingwasdenitelymorecomfortabletothatinUSU.Ithink theplacementofthemainlandinggearhelpstheQ400makesmootherlandingssincethecabin doesnotdirectlytakethevibration,andthewingexmightaswelldampenvibration;whereasin theATR72500wherethemainlandinggearareplacedjustunderthecabin,vibrationismore noticeable.Astocabinnoise,theywerealmostthesameforme.Overall,theQ400winsfor passengerexperience,andIhopemoreairlineswouldbewillingtotaketheQ400intotheireet. REPLY 12. said:keesje June9,2012at5:46pm Verycompleteandnicewrittenreview,excellentjob!IsenseaslightpreferencefortheQ400s betterperformance,fromapilotperspective.ItseemstheeconomicsoftheATRarewinningatthis time,aswellastheenhancedcabinandcockpitofthe600s.CurioustoknowwhatBBDsanswer willbe.Theycantsitonthehandssayingtheirsisfaster.. REPLY 13. said:bigpoint June17,2012at10:40pm 96300!!! REPLY 14. Pingback:Anonymous 15. said:Cb July30,2012at10:16am HiIfoundthisarticleveryniceandinterestingwithfewexception.IhavebeenyingATR 42/72500sincelast4yearsasacaptainandwasyingwithkingsherinIndia.Regardingthe mentionedspeedduringcruiseinATRIfounditincorrectasitwasmentionedinthisarticle.VMO ofATRis250kts,andinISAplus15degreeaverageTASuwillgetinATR72500inaverageis 250ktsduringcruise.yesuwillreach276KTSincruisebutonlyinATR42500andmightreachin belowISACOnditionin72.InIndianconditionfor72onlyindecendingphase.regardingtheclimb performanceinfullyloadedATR72500,toreachFL180from3000ftelevittakesalmost81nmin ISAPLUS15degreesc.AfterFL100ithardlygivesu7001000feetperminclimbandafterFL150 hardly300600ftperminclimb.SointermofclimbperformanceitisfarinferiortoQ400. HandlingwiseATR72isnotatallpilotfreindly.workloadforpilotisveryhigh.Veryhardtolandin crosswindandwhileraining.evenduringdaytimewithmorethanlightrainconditionitisvery hardtolandasATRwiperisabsolutelyuseless.Itfeelssometimesasitstherejustfortheshow.U canimaginelandinginbadweatheratnight.Asnohydraulicsareavialableforprimarycontrols ,sometimesneedgoodphysicalstrength. Duetoitsclimbperformance,maxtimeuhvtoythroughweatherinmonsoonperiodandduring landingjustwatchoutforpitchtopreventfromtailstrike.Aircondition..NotsucientforIndian
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andsubcontinentcondition. OVERALLitsquiteachallengetoyATRButgetssatisfactionafterightnlovingit. REPLY 16. Pingback:Fokker120Seite7 17. said:Sahil September5,2012at12:28pm oneofthebestaviationarticlesthatihavereadinalongtime.Thankyoufortheinsight. REPLY 18. said:Napper October10,2012at3:37am Hi Thesoundheardduringtaxi,takeo,approachisthePTU(HydraulicPowerTransferUnit)itisa safetyfeatureontheaircraftthattransfersHydraulicpowerbetweenthetwomainsystemsincase ofafailureduringtakeoorlanding.Itsupplyspowertocertainightcontrolandlandinggear.It isautoenabledandtriggerswhenapsmovepast0deg. ThisisageneralizationthePTUlogicisquitecomplex.Itmakesmuchmorenoisewhenitcalledto providehydraulicpower!!itisbasicallyinidlemodeduringtaxi. Iwritethefunctiontestprocedure.
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REPLY said:theyingengineer October10,2012at1:17pm Thankyou! REPLY 19. said:DavidDaniels October14,2012at4:54am OfalltheturbopropsIhaveownon,thebestofthebunchtome,wastheSAAB2000.Thatreally doesyatjetspeeds. Regretablyithasbeenoutofproductionnowforalongtime. REPLY said:TomMartin December19,2013at11:09pm Unfortunately,theSAAB2000waswayaheadofitstime.Itwasunheardoftostretcha1X2
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fuselageto50seats(provenviablewiththeERJ145),andjetlikespeedwithaturboprop (provenviablewithQ400). REPLY 20. said:sonythomas October15,2012at8:47am Sir, Justnoticedthis.JetAirATRtaxiedinkochitoparkingbaywithasingleenginewhiletheq400of spicejetusedbothenginesfortaxiwhileatmangalore. ithinkihavereadastoryofdeltaairlinessavingalotofmoneybyapsupontaxiorsingleengine taxi. iitapplicablefortheq400? justasked. thanks. REPLY said:theyingengineer October22,2012at10:59pm HelloSony, HereisyourreplyfromaQ400pilot:MarkBrouwer,whohelpedmewiththisarticle: AtAugsburgAirwayswealwaystaxiwithbothenginesrunningandtheconditionleversatmax rpm.Thatsjustcompanyprocedure,though,becauseIoftenseeAustrian(Tyrolean)taxiingin withoneenginein850rpm.Thedierenceinfuelowisaround50kg/hr,butIguessitcan makequiteadierencewhenitsstandardprocedureonallights. Wedontshutdownanenginecompletely,norhaveIseenothercompaniesdothis.Itsquite commonontheATR,butontheDashitwouldprobablycauseproblemswithmaneuverability becauseofthewidetrack. REPLY said:sonythomas November1,2012at1:25pm wow!!!thanksamilionfeelsrealgoodbeingabletocommunicatewitharealworld pilot..onedoesntndmanywalkingaround(obviouslytheyareying,iguess).. nicereply. thankyouverymuch! 21. said:deep November17,2012at8:41am
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justwantedtoconrmfromapilotwhetherq400iscategoryBorcategoryCaircraft.whatisthe approachspeed? REPLY 22. Pingback:YQRYYCRoutePage4FlyerTalkForums 23. said:AsbornWebb December3,2012at11:34am Justtwodaysago,IwasrespondingtoapostonfacebookinrelationtonewsclipthatstateLIATis likelytoupgradeitseettoATR42and72andnottheQ400.AsIobservedmostofusthat respondtothepostfavorstheQ400overtheATR.LIAThaveanallDash8eetof3Dash8100 andabout15Dash8300,soyoucanunderstandwhywefavortheDash8.Howeverweall concludedthatfromourobservationonairportrampandourexperienceaspassengersinDash8 aircraftweconcludedthattheQ400isamuchbetteraircraftforLIATeetrenewal.Readingthis articlehavegivenmemoreloveandfavorfortheQ400.PersonallyIwillgofortheexibilityand performanceoftheQ400thenfortheATR42or72operatingeconomics.Thankforthiswonderful article. REPLY said:starjack22 December26,2012at10:40pm Firstofall,idontthinkQ400swouldworkwellforislandhoppingroutesthatLIAToperates becausetheaircraftistoofast,thiscomeslikehavingajettodotheislandhopping(remember whathappentoRedjet).Secondly,notmostislandsintheCaribbeanregionwouldsupport Q400becausetheirairportshaveshorterrunways.EvenifLIATwastogettheQ400sitwould havetoylongroutesespeciallybetween,Jamaica,DominicanRepublic,PuertoRico,Barbados, TrinidadandprobablyGuyana.Thiswouldjustleaveouttheislandsinbetweenandremember LIATisaintracaribbeanairlinesoitmustservealltheislands.TheATRswhether42or72are moreeconomicalenoughtooperatebecausetheycanislandhopliketheDash8100sor300s especiallywhenyoutalkabouttheATR600series,theairlinecouldsavealotofmoneyin maintenanceandfuelwhenitusestheseaircraft. Thewayiseeit,theQ400swerereallydesigntocompetewithregionaljetslikeembrarers EjetsandbombardiersCRJsthereforetheQ400sinheritedthespeedandeconomicsclosetoa jetthanaturboproplikedash8300sorATR42and72.IdolikeQ400saswellbutifanyairline liketooperaterouteswithlongerrunwaysthatstheQ400s.Ifanairlinewantstooperateon shorterroutesespeciallyislandhoppinglikeCaribbeanAirlinesorLIATatairportswithshorter runways,theATR42/72isthewaytogo. REPLY said:starjack22 December27,2012at7:35am Firstofall,idontthinkmajorityofLIATsroutesdemandsaQ400because: 1.TheisaircraftisfasterandlargerthantheQ300s 2.Therearesomeoftheislandsairportsandrunwayscanthandlethisaircraftand 3.itsnotreallydesignforislandhopping.
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TheQ400isreallydesigntocompetewithregionaljetslikeembrarersejetsandbombardiers CRJsonlongerregionalroutes.TheATR42/72sontheotherhandmakesmoresensetooperate becausetheycanyatanormalturbopropspeedasadash8100or300andisstillcapableof islandhopping.AndthemuchadvantageespeciallywiththenewATR600seriesisthatitcould helpsavetheairlinemillionsofdollarsspentonfuelandmaintenancemakingitmore economicalsensetooperateespeciallyinshortersectors.Sotheresnothingwrongwith CaribbeanAirlinesorLIATchoosingATRsoverDashQ400s.Imyselfwishtheywouldhave Q400sintheireetbutinamoreeconomicaloutlookforintheCaribbeanitmaynotbeviable. REPLY 24. said:Chris December18,2012at3:28am Excellentarticle!Perfect! IjustwanttoaddinformationaboutATR:spoilersarestillactivatedonground.Indit unconfortable(yaweect)anddangerouswhenthereiscrosswind.(asymmetricaldrag increasement). Anotherparameterismissingintheperformanceanalysis:thewind.Whichisnotinfavorofslow aircrafts Ex.:headwind50kt(dailyfound) GroundspeedATR72:226kt GroundspeedQ400:310kt So37%faster! Headwind80kt GSATR72:196kt1h31minfor300Nmcruise GSQ400:280kt1h05min So43%faster!26minless! Often,thiskindsofaircraftsareusedtofeedhubs.Ifyouarelate,connectingightsaremissed Thanksagainforthisarticle Brgds REPLY 25. said:Sten December28,2012at11:51pm MaldivianairwaysywithDash8300/200aircrafts.whichissuperandeasytohandle.Idothe loadandtrimforthesetsitsmucheasiercomparedjetengineloadsheets REPLY 26. said:Capt.VibhootiSingh December29,2012at1:22am Quiteadetailedreviewandcomparisonbetweenboththemakes REPLY
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27. said:AngusClarke December29,2012at11:37am Excellentarticle.Itshouldbenotedthatalthoughthelistpricesindicatea$7Mdierence,inreality itssmaller,especiallywhentheorderisformultipleunits.Inmyopiniontheactualcostdierence ismuchsmaller.(perhapsonlyabout$2$3M.) REPLY 28. said:Zacharias December29,2012at6:44pm Hi,onequestion: IsitpossibletoytheQ400withlowerspeedthanusualandsavefuelthroughthis? Ifitshouldbepossible:HowmuchmorefuelwouldtheQ400needcomparedwiththeATR72, whenoperatingwiththesamespeedastheATR72? REPLY 29. said:Tyrolean January10,2013at1:18am Thankyouforthegreatarticle.Howeveryoustatethat withwhichtheaveragecabinnoiseof7779dBAislowerthanthatinanAirbusA318/319 whichhastobeajoke.Idontcareaboutthenumbersbutwiththousandsofhoursasoperating crewaswellasapassengerontheQ400Idaremyselftoknowthatitissignicantlymore uncomfortablethananyairbusnarrowbodyjet. REPLY 30. said:DougLiser February27,2013at11:08am Greatarticle!Thanks. JustewSTSSEAonaHorizonQ400.Otherthanthenoise,itwasgreat.STSistinycomparedto SFO.Itslikeaprivatejetexperience.Weheld400+mphgroundspeedinbothdirections.The2hr 9mintripisonlyafewminslongerthana737fromSFO.Imabigfanoftheseaircraftforfuel eciency.SwappingoutjetsforTPsonshortroutescouldmakemoreofadierencethanallthe railprojectscurrentlyonthetable. REPLY 31. said:Rashad April4,2013at6:45am Iwouldliketoseeyouguyscomparetheoldsaab2000withBothQ400atr72/42andeventhe Dash8300alsoandcomparedash8300Q300thetheatr42500
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REPLY 32. said:AlexandreACW April23,2013at6:22pm RememberQ400crashedonUSAaroundFeb.2009withContinentalExpresscolorsandkillingall onboard. REPLY 33. said:kolorowabielizna.pl April29,2013at5:30pm IjustcouldntgoawayyourwebsitebeforesuggestingthatIreallyenjoyedthestandardinfoan individualprovideforyourguests?Isgonnabebackcontinuouslyinordertoinvestigate crosschecknewposts REPLY 34. said:Krzysiek May19,2013at5:02pm OnpolishLOTtheycallQ400squarewheelsbecauseofwayinwhichitrunsonground.Shutters passengersleftandright,evenatslowspeedsduringtaxiingbeforestart. REPLY 35. said:Behramjee June8,2013at12:46pm howmuchdoesitcostapproximatelytooperateaDash8Q400andanATR72atfullcosti.e. variable+direct+indirect REPLY 36. said:MB July6,2013at6:38am IwouldliketoknowifanyonecouldinformmewhereIcanobtainthefuelcostsforQ400?It wouldalsobegreatifIcangetabreakdownoftheoperatingcosts.Anapproximatevalueshould begoodenough,itwillhelpmecompletemythesis. Thanksinadvance REPLY 37. said:BharathNahar August24,2013at6:15pm spicejethas15Q400sforitsregionaloperations.TheCEOoftheairlineputinhispapers18 monthsinadvanceoutofhis5yearterm.Theairlineaccordingtooneofthepilotsndsservicing
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theQ400sprettyexpensive.Thesparepartsoftheaircraftarechangedonlyafterthepilotsrequest 3or4times,togetitchangedtotheaircrafttechnicalteam.Theairlinebeingalowcostonespends alotoftimeandexpense,insendingthepilotstocanadafordeliveryofaircraftandto sweden/nlandforsimulationtraining.Theotherlowcostairline,indigogetsalltheiraircraft deliveredindelhi. REPLY 38. said:Claria September2,2013at12:47pm SpiceJetsucksallIndianpilotsarehorrible,IwastravellingfromGoa.Omygodwhatahard landingitwas,andthemaintenancesucksuwillndmosquito,uwillndwindowsaretapedwith papershorribleairlineIhvtraveled REPLY 39. said:PeterSchmid September17,2013at4:27am Thankyouverymuchforanexcellentarticle,veryeducational,includingthecommentsection!I wouldlovetolearnmoreaboutbothoftheseaircraft! REPLY 40. said:Felix October26,2013at10:28am Fantasticcomparisonb/wtheboth..Nicework. WhataboutHQratingsoftheairplanes? REPLY 41. said:AdrienneO/Neill December22,2013at12:58am Iamtroubledbyllymphedemaofthearm,acomplicationthataroseaftersurgerytomyarmpitfor breastcancer.ineedtoyinacabinwithasclosetonormalatmosphericpressureaspossibleand wearanelasticsleevethroughouttheight.Doesanyoneknowwhattheatmosphericpressurein thecabinofthesetwoplaneswouldbeattheirmaximumyingaltitude? Thankingyouinadvance. theresidentMermaid REPLY
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Proud To Fly A Turboprop - Q400 Vs ATR72

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Proud To Fly A Turboprop - Q400 Vs ATR72

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Proud to fly a Turboprop: Q400 vs ATR72 | The Flying Engineer

unmht://unmht/file.5/C:/Users/Vasin/Desktop/Ref - Q400 NextGen [201...