Current time: 05-02-2014, 10:29 PM

Threaded Mode | Linear Mode

03-28-2010, 07:40 AM Post: #21
Pages (4): Previous 1 2 3 4 Next

Home Introduction

FAQ Research Encouragement Contact Copyright Search Forum
Search Member List Help
Hello There, Guest! (Login Register)
SeekGod.ca Discussion Forum / The Endtimes / The Rapture, Pre-trib, Post Trib, Pre-Wrath /
Jewish Wedding Parallels the Rapture
Jewish Wedding Parallels the Rapture
Mary
Advanced Member
Posts: 442
Joined: Aug-20-2009
RE: Jewish Wedding Parallels the Rapture
Today I went to Bible study with the small group of Christians I fellowship with once or twice a month.
It was very interesting, although confusing. We looked at the parable of the 10 virgins. Perhaps this is
why the parallel with Jewish weddings is tempting for people to use, although to me the story seems not
to indicate any tradition you mention in your research, Vic, but seems very different from those
traditions.
Here it is:
Matthew 25: 1 - 13
"Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to
meet the bridegroom.
And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to
them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the
marriage: and the door was shut.
Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh."
A lot of questions came out of this parable:
1. Where is the bride?
2. Why is the "kingdom of heaven" likened to 5 foolish virgins and 5 wise virgins? iow, both the wise and
the foolish are included in the Kingdom of heaven.
3. When is "then", as in "then will the Kingdom of heaven..."?
4. If the "oil" represents the Holy Spirit, what does it mean that they could buy more?
5. All the virgins went to meet the bridegroom, but he wasn't 'there' (wherever they went to meet him)
he was 'tarrying', and he took so long they all slept. What does this mean?
here are some of the ideas that were discussed:
03-28-2010, 12:38 PM (This post was last modified: 03-28-2010 12:41 PM by Rose of Shushan.) Post: #22
- the bride has already been taken by the bridegroom and is waiting in a room, which can be shut off by
a door, for the marriage (ceremony?) to occur. The virgins were waiting to be taken by the groom to
the marriage. Some suggested that the bride had been taken previously, and that this indicates the
rapture.
- "then" is after the tribulation as in Matthew 24 : 29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days
shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven,
and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"
But this idea added to the confusion, because the "then" of ch 25 vs 1 comes after the "now" of ch 24
vs 37. Also from verse 37 on the message parallels the message of ch 25. The message is "be watchful,
be waiting, be ready. It is also interesting to note in ch 24 vs 48 : "But and if that evil servant shall say
in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;" that it is evil to believe that the lord is delayed.
I think that after the message of the fig tree, which warns us to notice the signs, different scenarios
are given which (a) warn us to be ready and waiting because we cannot know when He will return and
(b) build on the information and detail of the scenario before, to ready us not just for His return, but for
His rule and His judgement.
But I don't fully understand it and I will keep praying about it.
Phillipians 4:23 "The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen."
Rose of Shushan
Marathon Poster
Posts: 759
Joined: Dec-08-2008
RE: Jewish Wedding Parallels the Rapture
I think one of the first things that we have to remember here is that its a parable warning us to
be ready for when either Jesus returns and/or when we die.It also is in the context of holding
on fast until his return so Im more inclined to see the oil as being what sustains the virgin on
her way to meet the bridegroom.They both have the lamp Jesus but in one the oil to keep the
light burning is gone.So this reminds me of those who initially hold on to and believe in Jesus
but then fall away for some reason.They do not build on the strong foundation but instead on
sand.And in that parable the house that wasnt built on sand is washed away when the storms
come.I see this to be a similar parable in that Jesus is warning us not to sleep or slumberand to
make sure that we be ready.
I also am reminded of how as believers we have Jesus but many times we hold on to the Gosepl
and profess to be Christians but then fail in giving a good witness of this by our actions and
everyday life or the way we treat others. I also think of how Christians sometimes do not have
a good command of the Bible and its words in order to be able to bring this Gospel to others(ie
to enable the lamp to burn and give its light) think of the Gospel as being the light and our
lamps are our witness and the preaching of the Gospel.If our witness and acts are not glorifying
and based on Christ the lamp does not give out its light.The byuying of the oil to me signifies
the having the actions,witness and speech rooted in Jesus Christ.And also the regular reading
of the whole Bible in order to be able to use it fully to explain and preach the Gospel to others.
I also see from the parable how important it is to have a firm foundation because as in the
parable of the ones that built the house,once storms come there is no way to start renovating
faulty foundations.In the parable of the virgins there is likewise no time to go and buy oil.
Quote:
1.Where is the bride?
2Co 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband,
that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
To me the bride is everyone who enters into this New Covenant that Christ inaugurated with his
death.
Quote:
2. Why is the "kingdom of heaven" likened to 5 foolish virgins and 5 wise virgins? iow, both the wise
and the foolish are included in the Kingdom of heaven.
Other parables seem to me to give a similar idea of two groups.Just as James said we had to be
doers of the word and not just hearers.Many of Jesus partables touch on this concept.For
example in one parable Jesus says that God gives a feast and many are invited .Yet in one
parable one of the guests arrives without a wedding garment and thus is chucked out of the
feast when discovered. There like in the virgins parable something was missing ie a garment as
opposed to oil for the lamp.
In another parable some of the guests originally invited fail to show up since they have other
things to do.
If we notice in the virgins parable those who didnt have the oil fail to make it. Mary I see this as
being that the invitation goes forth to all and of some that accept initially fall away and fail to
keep their lamps burning brightly.Similiar also to being found naked in the following verse
2Co 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of
God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2Co 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from
heaven:
2Co 5:3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
2Co 5:4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be
unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
I do not agree that the oil is the Holy Spirit as some say.If Christ dwells in us how can we have
more of him or less? He either dwells or he doesnt.
Instead I believe the oil is a good foundation.
1Ti 6:19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may
lay hold on eternal life.
Quote:
5. All the virgins went to meet the bridegroom, but he wasn't 'there' (wherever they went to meet
him) he was 'tarrying', and he took so long they all slept. What does this mean?
I believe this refers to holding fast in times of adversity .God allows times of trial and times
when His presence isnt felt to test us and refine us.
Jesus warned that the bridegroom would be taken away .
Mat 9:15 And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber mourn, as long as the
bridegroom is with them? but the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken from them, and
then shall they fast.
Personally I dont believe that these verses have anything to do with a rapture at all.Jesus was
talking to the people,Israel that in 40 years would find its Temple destroyed its people ravaged
and eventually dispersed into the nations.In the case of believers they would be
persecuted,tortured,hounded out of the synagogues and eventually many would go into hiding
in catacombs trying to escape from the Romans.What lay ahead was not a few years but
hundreds of years of persecutions.
So Jesus was trying to convey the idea that the bridegroom would tarry.He would not return to
earth in that generation or in the nextwere still waiting.So the bridegroom tarries.
I dont believe its evil to think the Lord tarries as we see in that parable its the attitude that
goes with it in the parable that is wrong.The master tarried so the servant instead turned to
wrong doing
03-28-2010, 05:38 PM Post: #23
04-01-2010, 10:54 PM (This post was last modified: 04-01-2010 10:59 PM by Mary.) Post: #24
Mat 24:48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
Mat 24:49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
We know the Lord tarries so I dont think its wrong to acknowledge that but we must not use it
as an excuse and license to sin and to not live as Christcalls us to live.Instead we must instead
give ourselves over to good works ,to the encouragement of one another and to the spread of
the Gospel.
sheep wrecked

Compulsive Poster
Posts: 1,459
Joined: Dec-08-2008
RE: Jewish Wedding Parallels the Rapture
Thanx for the explanation, Rose It's where I am at as well.
I thot it would be interesting to show how some in Hebrew Roots and the charismatic
movement see this parable
Hebrew Roots:
The five wise virgins refer to those that keep Torah/the Mosaic Law. The foolish virgins do not
and therefore, when the bridegroom comes, they are told that He does not know them. In other
words, He is coming only for a Torah observant bride.
The oil represents the knowledge and observance of Torah which fills the lamp.
Charis/pentecostal/word of faith:
The oil is the Holy Spirit and only those who are continually filled with the Holy Spirit have their
lamps filled. This is seen by the ability to speak in tongues [which proves they have the Holy
Spirit] and the amount of faith/spirituality they have by the manifestations they get [laughing,
prophesying, jerking, getting slain in the spirit, feeling heat, getting hot oil poured over them
(feel heat in arms, hands, head, legs, feet, etc)]and other such nonsense.
Mary
Advanced Member
Posts: 442
Joined: Aug-20-2009
RE: Jewish Wedding Parallels the Rapture
Thank you Rose and Sheep for the responses. I have been reading the 2 chapters around the parable
this week, and have understood this so far:
The message is clear and repeated: Be ready, watch and wait for Jesus return.
I agree, the 10 virgins represent the "bride" - all those who have believed Jesus. The bride has not been
snatched away, and the parable doesn't indicate the rapture. It is easy to get caught up in the whole
imagery of the Jewish wedding and then squash this parable into fitting with it. But with Jesus being so
clear about warning us to watch and wait, putting too much emphasis on the wedding imagery is a
rabbit trail which may lead to deception.
Jesus gives a number of scenarios in the 2 chapters which have the same message of waiting and
watching, and which warn that if we are not ready it will be too late. The different scenarios emphasize
that Jesus is warning everybody: believers, backsliders, non- believers; and everybody from all walks of
life: masters, servants, men, women.
07-23-2010, 10:58 AM Post: #25
(04-29-2009 03:48 PM)

07-23-2010, 01:14 PM Post: #26
(07-23-2010 10:58 AM)
(04-29-2009 03:48 PM)
I agree that the oil is not the Holy Spirit, but indicates that people can profess to be believers but have
an empty or dead faith. I don't believe that these verses indicate that we can lose our salvation, but
more that if our salvation is true we will keep the lamp burning. The verses also indicate that we are
each responsible for our own "lamp" - we cannot share faith, or be helped or carried by other believers.
It is very disturbing, and surely meant to be, that the 5 foolish virgins sincerely want the "oil" and go
and actually purchase it - so they have it, but the door is shut to them and they are turned away,
because they are too late. This is the warning: now is the time of salvation, respond today... because
there will come the time when it is too late and, as when Noah, his family, and the animals were shut by
God into the Ark, it was too late for the rest of the world.
Thanks also Rose for the clarification of the tarrying the bridegroom. I agree it is the response of
thinking we can do what we like, and doing it, because the Master is delayed that is evil, not that He is
delayed. We should think of His delay as more time to encourage others and spread the Word, but with
urgency because he could come at any moment.
Phillipians 4:23 "The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen."
Daniel
Newbie
Posts: 2
Joined: Jul-20-2010
RE: Jewish Wedding Parallels the Rapture
Vic Wrote:

I wanted to give an update on this issue. We are researching it and have found that not only is it
prevalent in HR, but many, many Christian websites are using the Jewish Wedding as a parallel to and
for, confirming the rapture.
I had not noticed it before when researching, so this is an interesting phenomena.
Matthew 25:1-13 is also used to justify the traditions taught concerning the Jewish wedding.
Daniel.
Daniel.
Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly (Colossians 3:16).
http://illuminate10.tripod.com
heb13-13
Advanced Member
Posts: 255
Joined: Jun-22-2009
RE: Jewish Wedding Parallels the Rapture
Daniel Wrote:

Vic Wrote:

I wanted to give an update on this issue. We are researching it and have found that not only is it
prevalent in HR, but many, many Christian websites are using the Jewish Wedding as a parallel to and
for, confirming the rapture.
07-23-2010, 01:34 PM Post: #27

07-23-2010, 03:57 PM (This post was last modified: 07-23-2010 03:57 PM by sheep wrecked.) Post: #28
(07-23-2010 01:14 PM)
I had not noticed it before when researching, so this is an interesting phenomena.
Matthew 25:1-13 is also used to justify the traditions taught concerning the Jewish wedding.
Daniel.
This is all very good information by all. I just received 5 DVDs from someone in which a person named
Jim Staley talks about Matthew 25 on the DVD titled, "New Covenant". I also noticed that the guy that
produced "Daniel's Timeline" (also, recommended to me) on Youtube, predicts the Lord's return within 2
days based on the Jewish Feasts that have "not been fulfilled yet". I don't endorse either one of these
guys, btw. I am writing up a rebuttal, instead.
I was suspect right off the bat about Staley when I learned that he is part of GLC. I had not heard of
him or read of him on this site. But, I will listen to these in order to rebut by scripture, the person that
sent these to me. Currently listening to "Difficult Scriptures of Paul". I'm sure the Word is going to be
"wrested" and "twisted" just like the DVDs I have already heard. This stuff does force you to study and
know what the Scriptures are "simply" saying.
Anyway, thanks again for the good info.
Jer 12:5 If thou hast run with the footmen, and they have wearied thee, then how canst thou
contend with horses? and if in the land of peace, wherein thou trustedst, they wearied thee, then
how wilt thou do in the swelling of Jordan?
Daniel
Newbie
Posts: 2
Joined: Jul-20-2010
RE: Jewish Wedding Parallels the Rapture
Is it possible for someone to post, if it's not at all a problem, exactly where in the Talmud it talks about
the wedding traditions?
I'm quite new here and really enjoying the food here
sheep wrecked
Compulsive Poster
Posts: 1,459
Joined: Dec-08-2008
RE: Jewish Wedding Parallels the Rapture
heb13-13 Wrote:

This is all very good information by all. I just received 5 DVDs from someone in which a person named
Jim Staley talks about Matthew 25 on the DVD titled, "New Covenant". I also noticed that the guy that
produced "Daniel's Timeline" (also, recommended to me) on Youtube, predicts the Lord's return within 2
days based on the Jewish Feasts that have "not been fulfilled yet". I don't endorse either one of these
guys, btw. I am writing up a rebuttal, instead.
I was suspect right off the bat about Staley when I learned that he is part of GLC. I had not heard of
him or read of him on this site. But, I will listen to these in order to rebut by scripture, the person that
sent these to me. Currently listening to "Difficult Scriptures of Paul". I'm sure the Word is going to be
"wrested" and "twisted" just like the DVDs I have already heard. This stuff does force you to study and
know what the Scriptures are "simply" saying.
Anyway, thanks again for the good info.
07-23-2010, 04:01 PM Post: #29
(07-23-2010 01:34 PM)
07-23-2010, 04:11 PM Post: #30
Enter Keywords Search Thread
View a Printable Version
Send this Thread to a Friend
Subscribe to this thread
Forum Jump:
-- The Rapture, Pre-trib, Post Trib, Pre-Wrath
Go
Pages (4): Previous 1 2 3 4 Next

Jim Staley is a Hebrew Roots teacher that teaches kabbalah and Talmud.
sheep wrecked
Compulsive Poster
Posts: 1,459
Joined: Dec-08-2008
RE: Jewish Wedding Parallels the Rapture
Daniel Wrote:

Is it possible for someone to post, if it's not at all a problem, exactly where in the Talmud it talks
about the wedding traditions?
I'm quite new here and really enjoying the food here
A good description and detailed look is found here:
http://www.jewfaq.org/marriage.htm
heb13-13
Advanced Member
Posts: 255
Joined: Jun-22-2009
RE: Jewish Wedding Parallels the Rapture
Oh, yeah, I know that now. When I first received the DVDs, I had not heard of his name, but with a
little research, quickly found out about him.
Thanks
Jer 12:5 If thou hast run with the footmen, and they have wearied thee, then how canst thou
contend with horses? and if in the land of peace, wherein thou trustedst, they wearied thee, then
how wilt thou do in the swelling of Jordan?
Next Oldest | Next Newest
User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)
Contact Us | SeekGod.ca | Return to Top | Return to Content | Lite (Archive) Mode | RSS Syndication
Powered By MyBB, 2002-2014 MyBB Group.