Wisan Deposition

R0E R.
WI5AN Ju1y3,214
AhER PARk -- EP0hAXhERIT REP0RTER5 {81) 328-1188 Page 1 to 4
IN THE THIRD JUDICIAL DISTRICT COURT
IN AND FOR SALT LAKE COUNTY, STATE OF UTAH
* * *
M. J.,
Plaintiff,
vs.
WARREN JEFFS, et al.,
Defendants.
_________________________
UNITED EFFORT PLAN TRUST,
by Bruce R. Wisan, as the
Court-appointed Special
Fiduciary,
Third-Party Complainant,
v.
ALLEN STEED, et al.,
Third-Party Defendants.
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Case No. 070916524
Deposition of:
BRUCE R. WISAN
* * *
July 30, 2014
9:07 a.m.
36 South State Street
Suite 2400
Salt Lake City, Utah 84111
* * *
Amber Park
- Certified Shorthand Reporter -
- Registered Professional Reporter -
A P P E A R A N 0 E 5 1
For fhe PTa1hf1. 2
ALAh W. h0RTEhSEh
LAhCE L. hTLhE 3
0EWShUP, KTh0 & 0LSEh
36 Soufh Sfafe Sfreef 4
Su1fe 2400
SaTf Lake C1fy, Ufah 84111 5
6
For fhe 0eehdahfs.
JEFFREY L. ShTEL0S 7
CALLTSTER hEEKER & hCCULL0U0h
10 Easf Soufh TempTe 8
Su1fe 900
10
For Sfafe o Ufah.
0AvT0 h. W0LF 11
UTAh ATT0RhEY 0EhERAL`S 0FFTCE
160 Easf 300 Soufh 12
6fh FToor
ATso presehf. 14
hax heTsoh {v1deographer}
15
* * *
16
T h 0 E X
17
EXAhThATT0h PA0E
18
Exam1haf1oh by hr. horfehseh 4
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
E X h T T T S 1
h0. 0ESCRTPTT0h PA0E
1 Respohse fo PTa1hf1`s Secohd Sef o 4 2
Thferrogafor1es ahd F1fh Sef o
Requesfs or Producf1oh o 0ocumehfs 3
2 0rder Re. PreT1m1hary Thjuhcf1oh 5
Appo1hf1hg a Spec1aT F1duc1ary ahd 4
Suspehd1hg fhe Trusfees
3 Ufah Afforhey 0eheraT hark L. 9 5
ShurfTe`s hof1oh fo Thfervehe
6
4 hof1ce o Subm1ss1oh o AhhuaT Reporf 10
Uh1fed Eorf PTah Trusf 7
5 Cohfracf or Purchase o ReaT Properfy 22
ahd ReTease Agreemehf 8
6 0ecTaraf1oh o ehe1c1ar1es 26
7 Prosecuf1oh or h1re PoWerPo1hf 32 9
8 h1hufes o Aucf1oh Rev1eW hear1hg 33
9 h1hufes o hear1hg 39 10
10 ack Page Thferhef 0ocumehfs 40
11 har1ssa Ahh Payhe hugshof 42 11
12 Thormaf1oh oh h1sdemeahor Charge 43
13 CoTor Phofograph 49 12
14 CoTor Phofograph 49
15 CoTor Phofograph 50 13
16 hof1ce o Subm1ss1oh o AhhuaT Reporf o 51
Uh1fed Eorf PTah Trusf 14
17 0rder Approv1hg Aucf1oh SaTes o ReaT 55
Properfy 15
18 Uh1fed Eorf PTah Trusf Ufah Lahd 55
ParceTs 16
19 Uh1fed Eorf PTah Trusf Ar1zoha Lahd 57
ParceTs 17
20 PTaf haps 59
21 hemorahdum 1h Supporf o F1duc1ary`s 71 18
hof1oh fo Approve SaTes o ReaT Properfy
22 hap o h1TdaTe ahd CoTorado C1fy 75 19
23 Wafer R1ghfs 82
24 hap o CoTorado C1fy 84 20
25 CoTored hap 84
26 verd1cfs 1h Cooke Case 87 21
27 Wr1f o Execuf1oh 87
28 Spec1aT verd1cf 88 22
29 PTa1hf1 Thfervehor Sfafe o Ar1zoha`s 90
hof1oh or Leave fo Re-opeh fhe 23
Ev1dehf1ary Record
24

25
Page 3
Wedhesday, JuTy 30, 2014. 9.07 a.m. 1
{Whereupoh, 0epos1f1oh Exh1b1f ho. 1 Was 2
marked or 1dehf11caf1oh.}
P R 0 C E E 0 T h 0 S 3
R0E R. WI5AN, 4
caTTed as a W1fhess, hav1hg beeh duTy sWorh, 5
Was exam1hed ahd fesf11ed as oTToWs.
6
EXAhINATI0N
7
Y hR. h0RTEhSEh. 8
S1r, 1f`s my uhdersfahd1hg -- T khoW 9 0
you`ve had your depos1f1oh fakeh severaT f1mes so We 10
cah -- We cah sk1p pasf fhe 1hsfrucf1ohs ahd move 1hfo 11
fhe hearf o fhe maffer. 12
You`re ruce W1sah, fhe spec1aT 1duc1ary 13
fhaf`s beeh appo1hfed or fhe UEP Trusf, correcf? 14
Yes. 15 A
Ahd you`ve beeh hahded Whaf`s beeh marked 16 0
as Exh1b1f 1 fo your depos1f1oh, Wh1ch 1s 1dehf11ed 17
as a respohse fo pTa1hf1`s secohd sef o 18
1hferrogafor1es ahd 1fh sef o requesfs or 19
producf1oh o documehfs fo ruce W1sah, as spec1aT 20
1duc1ary o fhe Uh1fed Eorf PTah Trusf. 0h fhaf 21
documehf your s1ghafure appears oh page 9, correcf? 22
Yes. 23 A
You had ah opporfuh1fy fo rev1eW fhese 24 0
respohses fo 1hferrogafor1es or fhe1r accuracy? 25
Page 4
sltrib.com
R0E R. WI5AN Ju1y3,214
WeTT, T d1d Wheh T s1ghed 1f, yes. 1 A
Ahd d1d you rev1eW fhe documehfs fo ver1y 2 0
fhaf fhey Were frue ahd accurafe documehfs? 3
hosf o fhe documehfs. Some o fhe fax 4 A
assessmehf hof1ces Were so voTum1hous, T meah, T 5
d1dh`f rev1eW every s1hgTe ohe. T had a ormer 6
cha1rmah o fhe Sfafe Tax Comm1ss1oh puf fhaf fogefher 7
or me ahd T k1hd o Tooked af fhem. 8
0kay. 9 0
uf or aTT 1hfehfs ahd purposes, yes. 10 A
Ahd 1f`s my uhdersfahd1hg fhaf -- We`re 11 0
here or a 30{b}{6} depos1f1oh, Wh1ch 1s a TegaT ferm 12
fhaf you WouTd be fhe persoh mosf khoWTedgeabTe abouf 13
fhe deaT1hgs ahd frahsacf1ohs o fhe Uh1fed Eorf 14
PTah Trusf s1hce you fook over as fhe 1duc1ary, 1s 15
fhaf correcf? 16
Yes. 17 A
Ahd s1hce 1fs reormaf1oh, correcf? 18 0
Yes. 19 A
marked or 1dehf11caf1oh.} 21
{Y hR. h0RTEhSEh} 22
S1r, you`ve beeh hahded Whaf`s beeh marked 23 0
as Exh1b1f 2. Tf`s a order regard1hg a preT1m1hary 24
1hjuhcf1oh appo1hf1hg fhe spec1aT 1duc1ary ahd 25
Page 5
suspehd1hg fhe frusfees s1ghed by Judge 0eho h1mohas 1
back oh fhe 16fh o Juhe o 2005. Ts fhaf your 2
uhdersfahd1hg 1s Wheh you Were appo1hfed fo be fhe 3
spec1aT 1duc1ary o fhe Uh1fed Eorf PTah Trusf? 4
ho. 5 A
Wheh Were you appo1hfed? 6 0
Judge -- T`m go1hg fo say Roger or 7 A
Roberf -- Afk1hs appo1hfed me hay 27, 2005. 8
Ahd fheh 1f gof moved fo Judge h1mohas`s 9 0
courf, correcf? 10
Temporary -- or ohe hear1hg or or a 11 A
br1e per1od o f1me fo Judge h1mohas, yes. 12
Ahd hark ShurfTe, fhe Afforhey 0eheraT 13 0
af fhe f1me, Was fhe ohe Who hom1hafed you fo be fhe 14
spec1aT 1duc1ary, correcf? 15
Thaf Was my uhdersfahd1hg. 16 A
Why d1d he seTecf you fo be fhe spec1aT 17 0
1duc1ary? 18
T1m od1Ty Was fhe 1hd1v1duaT 1h fhe 19 A
Afforhey 0eheraT`s o1ce fhaf Was ass1ghed fo fhe 20
case. T have, over fhe years as a CPA, beeh ah 21
accouhfahf or bahkrupfcy frusfees or severaT 22
sfahd1hg frusfees, K1m hos1er, Roger SegaT, amohg 23
ofhers, have 1hferaced W1fh JoeT harker, ahd 1f came 24
a po1hf Where T Was WeTT ehough khoWh fhaf T Was fheh 25
Page 6
occas1ohaTTy appo1hfed bahkrupfcy frusfee Wheh fhey 1
d1dh`f Wahf fhe sfahd1hg frusfee or some parf1cuTar 2
s1fuaf1oh. T aTso fheh 1h var1ous ahd suhdry became a 3
rece1ver 1h a coupTe o cases, severaT cases, over 4
bus1hess properf1es. 5
Ahd so T1m od1Ty caTTed me 1h fWo 6
fhousahd -- T beT1eve 1f Was 2002, 2003 oh a case 7
fhaf -- Where a fax payer had goffeh s1deWays W1fh fhe 8
Sfafe Tax Comm1ss1oh ahd T1m od1Ty Was represehf1hg 9
fhe Tax Comm1ss1oh ahd appo1hfed me a rece1ver o fh1s 10
bus1hess. Ahd 1f Was a hosf1Te fakeover ahd fhere Was 11
a -- T cah`f remember, share or some marshaTT or 12
somebody fhaf -- W1fh a badge ahd guh. Ahd We Wehf 1h 13
ahd fook over fhe bus1hess ahd T rah 1f or 14
approx1mafeTy a year, T beT1eve. Ahd fhere Was arsoh, 15
fhere Was aTT k1hds o sfu, a Tof o sfu Wehf oh, 16
ahd T hahdTed 1f W1fhouf a Tof o uss ahd muss. Ahd 17
T1m T1ked fhe Way T hahdTed 1f ahd he sa1d, "WeTT, 18
T`TT keep you 1h m1hd 1 somefh1hg comes up." 19
TWo years Tafer he Was asked fo gef 20
1hvoTved 1h fhe UEP case ahd T came fo m1hd ahd he 21
caTTed me ahd asked me 1 T WouTd be 1hferesfed, ahd 22
1 hof, 1 T kheW somebody fhaf WouTd be 1hferesfed. 23
Ahd fhey had ah afforhey or a TaW 1rm fhaf fhey WouTd 24
recommehd 1 T fook fhe case, KesTer ahd Rusf T 25
Page 7
beT1eve Was fhe hame o fhe 1rm, ahd so oh ahd such 1
orfh. Ahd T fhoughf abouf 1f ahd faTked fo a coupTe 2
o ofher peopTe, T faTked fo some peopTe af CaTT1sfer 3
hebeker & hcCoTTough ahd dec1ded fo fake fhe case. 4
Ahd so T1m sa1d, "0kay. We`TT recommehd 5
you." 6
T d1d hof ever -- T had hof mef hark 7
ShurfTe or d1dh`f meef h1m uhf1T maybe a year -- af 8
Teasf a year-ahd-a-haT, maybe fWo years Tafer. 9
Lohg -- sorry or fhe Tohg ahsWer, buf fhaf`s Whaf 1f 10
Was. 11
So you had ho preex1sf1hg r1ehdsh1p or 12 0
reTaf1ohsh1p W1fh hark ShurfTe? 13
ho. Th acf, Wheh T -- T Was very 14 A
spec11c 1h ask1hg T1m od1Ty, "WeTT hoW d1d you gef 15
my hame?" 16
Ahd he sa1d, "T doh`f khoW. Tf jusf came 17
up." 18
Ahd fheh fhe same quesf1oh W1fh regard fo 19 0
Johh SWaTToW, you had ho r1ehdsh1p -- 20
ho. 21 A
-- or reTaf1ohsh1p W1fh h1m? 22 0
ho. 23 A
01d you khoW someohe af KesTer ahd Rusf? 24 0
ho. 25 A
Page 8
sltrib.com
{Y hR. h0RTEhSEh} 3
as 0epos1f1oh Exh1b1f 3. Ahd fheh 1f`s ah 5
1hfervehf1oh fhaf Was made -- or a mof1oh or 6
1hfervehf1oh 1hfo fhe Ar1zoha case o CoTorado C1fy 7
versus fhe UEP. Th 1f, 1f sfafes, "Thferveher Ufah 8
Afforhey 0eheraT, hark ShurfTe, by ahd fhrough h1s 9
uhders1ghed couhseT ahd pursuahf fo FederaT RuTe o 10
C1v1T Procedure 24 ahd TocaT ruTe 7.2, hereby 11
respecfuTTy moves fhe Courf fo 1hfervehe 1h fh1s 12
acf1oh oh fhe grouhds fhaf he has {1} ah 1hferesf 1h 13
profecf1hg fhe 1hferesf o fhe behe1c1ar1es o fhe 14
Uh1fed Eorf PTah Trusf {2} ehsur1hg fhe Trusf 1s 15
ehorced 1h a cohs1sfehf, TaWuT mahher ahd {3} 16
ehsur1hg agreemehfs ehfered 1hfo by fhe spec1aT 17
1duc1ary o fhe UEP Trusf are vaT1d ahd ehorceabTe." 18
0o you agree W1fh fhaf sfafemehf fhaf Was 19
made 1h fh1s mof1oh? 20
Thaf 1f has ah 1hferesf 1h fhose 1ssues? 21 A
Yes. 22
So you WouTd agree fhaf fhe Afforhey 23 0
0eheraT has ah 1hferesf 1h profecf1hg fhe 24
behe1c1ar1es o fhe UEP Trusf? 25
Page 9
Yes. 1 A
Ahd fhaf fhe Afforhey 0eheraT o fhe Sfafe 2 0
o Ufah has ah 1hferesf ehsur1hg fhaf fhe Trusf 1s 3
ehorced 1h a cohs1sfehf, TaWuT mahher, correcf? 4
Cerfa1hTy. 5 A
Ahd fhaf fhe UEP Trusf aTso -- or fhaf fhe 6 0
Afforhey 0eheraT has ah 1hferesf 1h ehsur1hg fhaf 7
agreemehfs ehfered 1hfo by fhe spec1aT 1duc1ary -- 8
Wh1ch WouTd be you -- are vaT1d ahd ehorceabTe, 9
correcf? 10
T WouTd assume so, yes. 11 A
S1r, T`ve hahded you Whaf`s beeh marked as 15 0
Exh1b1f 4 fo your depos1f1oh. Ahd 1f 1s a hof1ce o 16
subm1ss1oh o ahhuaT reporf Uh1fed Eorf PTah Trusf 17
fhaf Was 1Ted 1h a courf o TaW here 1h fhe sfafe o 18
Ufah oh harch 30fh o 2012. 19
hR. ShTEL0S. Ts fh1s humber 4, CouhseT? 20
hR. h0RTEhSEh. Yeah, Exh1b1f humber 4. 21
CouTd you furh fo page 6 -- 1rsf o aTT, 22 0
Tef me ask you, do you recogh1ze fh1s documehf? 23
WeTT, T prepared 1f. T haveh`f read 1f 24 A
or a coupTe o years so -- buf T prepared 1f. 25
Page 10
uf oh page 23 fhaf`s your s1ghafure? 1 0
Yes. 2 A
Ahd so you WouTd have read ahd agreed W1fh 3 0
fh1s Wheh fh1s Was 1Ted W1fh fhe Courf, correcf? 4
Yes. 5 A
So oh page 6 uhder paragraph 10 Where 1f 6 0
says, "The 1duc1ary beT1eves fhe adm1h1sfraf1oh o 7
fhe Trusf 1s essehf1aTTy a goverhmehf uhcf1oh, 8
1hasmuch as 1f Was fhe Sfafe 0overhmehf fhaf 9
pef1f1ohed fhe Courf fo fake cohfroT o fhe Trusf ahd 10
preserve assefs or fhe behe1f o fhe Trusf 11
behe1c1ar1es." 12
0o you agree W1fh fhaf sfafemehf? 13
Yes. 14 A
So you beT1eve fhaf 1h acf1hg as fhe 15 0
1duc1ary or fhe adm1h1sfraf1oh o fhe Trusf you Were 16
acf1hg essehf1aTTy 1h a goverhmehf uhcf1oh, correcf? 17
WeTT, T`m uhcf1oh1hg uhder fhe jud1c1aT 18 A
superv1s1oh o Judge L1hdberg ahd she`s a Sfafe Judge 19
so fhaf -- oTToW1hg fhaf cha1h, yes. 20
WeTT, here 1f says fhe adm1h1sfraf1oh o 21 0
fhe Trusf 1s essehf1aTTy a goverhmehfaT uhcf1oh. 0o 22
you agree W1fh fhaf? 23
Th fhe mahher fhaf T jusf sfafed, fhaf T 24 A
reporf fo ahd am d1recfed by a Sfafe Courf. 25
Page 11
Ahd fheh fhe Afforhey 0eheraT aTso 1s 1 0
1hvoTved 1h overs1ghf o ahy dec1s1ohs fhaf you make, 2
correcf? 3
hR. W0LF. 0bjecf1oh. Lacks ouhdaf1oh. 4
ThE WTThESS. T doh`f khoW fhaf overs1ghf 5
1s a correcf ferm fhere, CouhseTor. The Afforhey 6
0eheraT`s o1ces o Ar1zoha ahd Ufah are parf1es o 7
1hferesf, buf fhey doh`f g1ve me 1hsfrucf1ohs, fhe 8
judge does. Ahd T reporf fo fhe judge ahd T do hof 9
reporf fo e1fher o fhe fWo A0`s. 10
uf 1f`s fhe Afforhey 0eheraT`s job, as 12 0
sfafed 1h Exh1b1f 3, fo ehsure fhe Trusf 1s ehorced 13
1h a cohs1sfehf ahd TaWuT mahher, correcf? 14
Thaf`s fhe1r 1hferesf. They have ah 15 A
1hferesf 1h 1s fhe Way fhaf reads ahd -- yes, fhey 16
have ah 1hferesf 1h fhaf, ahd T`m sure 1 fhey have 17
some umbrage or a d1sagreemehf W1fh fhe Trusf, fheh 18
fhey WouTd br1hg 1f up fo fhe judge goverh1hg fhe 19
Trusf. 20
So you do agree back oh Exh1b1f 4 W1fh fhe 21 0
sfafemehf fhaf "fhe adm1h1sfraf1oh o fhe Trusf 1s 22
essehf1aTTy a goverhmehf uhcf1oh 1hasmuch as 1f Was 23
fhe Sfafe 0overhmehf fhaf pef1f1ohed fhe Courf fo fake 24
cohfroT o fhe Trusf ahd preserve assefs or fhe 25
Page 12
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behe1f o fhe Trusf behe1c1ar1es"? 1
hR. ShTEL0S. 0bjecf1oh. Asked ahd 2
ahsWered fW1ce. 3
ThE WTThESS. Yeah, T beT1eve T`ve aTready 4
ahsWered fhaf quesf1oh. T am uhder fhe ausp1ces o a 5
Sfafe Judge 1h Th1rd 01sfr1cf Courf. 6
{Y hR. h0RTEhSEh} 7
Ahd you uhdersfahd fhaf Wheh you 1Te 8 0
fhese reporfs fhaf Judge L1hdberg ahd fhe Sfafe o 9
Ufah heeds fhem fo be as accurafe as poss1bTe, 10
correcf? 11
WeTT, aga1h, T reporf fo Judge L1hdberg 12 A
ahd T fry fo have fhem as accurafe as poss1bTe, yeah. 13
0h page 17, oh paragraph 51, 1f sfafes 14 0
fhaf, "The 1duc1ary cohf1hues fo Took or properfy 15
fhaf beTohgs fo fhe Trusf fhaf has beeh d1verfed fo 16
ofher orgah1zaf1ohs. The Wafer r1ghfs fhaf are so 17
cr1f1caT fo fhe operaf1ohs o fhe commuh1fy have beeh 18
a major ocus o fhe 1duc1ary`s eorfs. LegaT 19
1hvesf1gaf1ohs have beeh cohducfed 1hfo fhe removaT o 20
Wafer r1ghfs vaTued af severaT m1TT1ohs o doTTars 21
rom a dba o fhe UEP Trusf, khoWh as Soufhs1de 22
Trr1gaf1oh Compahy, 1hfo a pr1vafe ehf1fy, khoWh as 23
Soufhs1de Trr1gaf1oh Compahy, LLC. The frahser Was 24
made by W1TT1e Jessop Wh1Te he Was sf1TT adher1hg fo 25
Page 13
fhe cohfroT group." 1
Tf`s your uhdersfahd1hg W1TT1e Jessop Was 2
fhe ohe Who frahserred UEP Wafer r1ghfs 1hfo fhe 3
Soufhs1de Trr1gaf1oh, LLC? 4
WeTT, h1s s1ghafure`s oh fhe documehfs so 5 A
fhaf Was my uhdersfahd1hg, yes. 6
Ahd so fhaf WouTd be frahserr1hg Wafer 7 0
r1ghfs aWay rom fhe UEP Trusf 1hfo ah LLC hof 1h 8
cohfroT by fhe UEP Trusf? 9
Yes. 10 A
Ahd fhaf Was 1TTegaT ahd 1mproper? 11 0
hR. ShTEL0S. 0bjecf1oh. CaTTs or a 12
TegaT cohcTus1oh. 13
ThE WTThESS. Yeah, 1h my uhdersfahd1hg 1f 14
Was 1mproper, ahd 1h my op1h1oh 1f Was 1TTegaT, buf 15
fhaf had hof beeh adjud1cafed. 16
So 1h your op1h1oh 1f Was 1TTegaT ahd 18 0
1mproper? 19
Th my op1h1oh. 20 A
Was 1f rauduTehf? 21 0
T`m a s1mpTe CPA. T reuse -- 22 A
WeTT, you khoW Whaf raud 1s. You`re a 23 0
CPA. 24
WeTT, yeah, buf T doh`f khoW fhe pure 25 A
Page 14
de1h1f1oh o raud ahd -- 1
01ve me your CPA de1h1f1oh o raud. 0o 2 0
you fh1hk 1f`s rauduTehf? 3
WeTT, raud 1s ah 1hfehf1ohaT acf fo 4 A
1TTegaTTy frahser assefs -- fo 1TTegaTTy frahser 5
assefs. Lef`s Teave 1f af fhaf. 6
0kay. So do you fh1hk h1s frahser o 7 0
assefs rom fhe UEP 1hfo fh1s Soufhs1de Trr1gaf1oh Was 8
rauduTehf? 9
T doh`f khoW Whaf h1s 1hfehf Was. T fh1hk 10 A
raud -- aga1h, T`m hof ah afforhey, buf T fh1hk raud 11
has ah aspecf o 1hfehf ahd T`m hof exacfTy sure Whaf 12
h1s 1hfehf Was, buf T doh`f fh1hk 1f Was -- 1f 13
cerfa1hTy Wash`f behe1c1aT fo fhe Trusf ahd may WeTT 14
have beeh raud. 15
WeTT, d1d you fake ahy acf1ohs fo have 1f 16 0
uhdohe uhder -- as be1hg a rauduTehf frahser? 17
T d1d hof. 18 A
uf you had uhdohe ofher properfy 19 0
frahsers based upoh rauduTehf frahsers? 20
EarTy oh, yes. 21 A
So you khoW Whaf a rauduTehf frahser 1s? 22 0
Th a Weak sehse. Aga1h, as a CPA. 23 A
Ahd fheh W1TT1e Jessop gave -- gof fhose 24 0
Wafer r1ghfs back fo fhe UEP, correcf? 25
Page 15
WeTT, he heTped us gef fhose back, yes. 1 A
Whaf d1d he do fo heTp? 2 0
he Wehf fo fhe sfafe -- ahd T`m hof 3 A
exacfTy sure Wh1ch deparfmehf, buf T WouTd assume some 4
bus1hess reguTaf1oh -- ahd h1s aTTegaf1oh Wheh he Was 5
Work1hg W1fh us 1s fhaf he Was 1mproperTy removed rom 6
be1hg fhe mahager o Soufhs1de Trr1gaf1oh ahd he Wehf 7
fo fhe sfafe, removed Who fhey had repTaced h1m, puf 8
h1mseT back 1h fo fhaf pos1f1oh fhaf he eTf he 9
shouTd have beeh 1h, ahd fheh d1d a frahser o fhe 10
Wafer r1ghfs ouf o fhaf ehf1fy fo fhe UEP Trusf. 11
Ahd -- T`m hof sure hoW -- fhere Was a deed ahd T`m 12
hof sure Whefher fhaf Was a Warrahfy deed or Whaf k1hd 13
o a deed 1f Was, buf he -- W1fh a deed he frahserred 14
fhaf fo fhe UEP ahd fhaf Was fakeh fo fhe sfafe 15
ehg1heer`s o1ce ahd fhey recorded fhaf -- fhose 16
Wafer r1ghfs 1h fhe hame o fhe UEP Trusf, Wh1ch 1s 17
Where fhey are hoW. 18
Ahd as parf o fhaf frahser o fhe Wafer 19 0
r1ghfs back fo fhe UEP Trusf, W1TT1e Jessop Was soTd a 20
p1ece o properfy af a much reduced vaTue, correcf? 21
WeTT, you have fhe mof1oh. There Were 22 A
severaT properfy frahsacf1ohs, ahd 1 you`re faTk1hg 23
abouf fhe properfy across fhe sfreef probabTy soufh o 24
fhe so-caTTed Warreh Jes compouhd, ho, fhaf Was hof 25
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sltrib.com
a subsfahf1aT d1scouhf. Thaf Was preffy much af 1
appr1sed vaTue. 2
Wash`f he soTd a p1ece o properfy fhaf 3 0
Was soTd fo h1m or abouf $400,000 uhder fhe appra1sed 4
vaTue? 5
ho. 6 A
Wash`f fhere a requesf made fo -- he Was 7 0
soTd severaT parceTs o properfy uhder fhe appra1sed 8
vaTue fhaf Judge L1hdberg approved af a recehf 9
hear1hg, correcf? 10
Yes. 11 A
Ahd Whaf Was fhe appra1sed vaTue o fhose 12 0
parceTs? 13
T doh`f have fhose humbers 1h rohf o me, 14 A
buf 1 We had aTT fhe documehfs here We couTd Took af 15
fhaf. T WouTd assume you`ve gof aTT fhe documehfs. T 16
d1dh`f br1hg ahy documehfs. Every f1me T come fo a 17
depos1f1oh T br1hg documehfs ahd hever heed fhem 18
because you guys aTWays urh1sh fhem, fhe afforheys 19
aTT do fhaf. 20
As parf o fhe appra1sed -- as parf o fhe 21 0
saTe o fhose properf1es, fhaf 1hcTuded -- parf o fhe 22
cohs1deraf1oh or fhaf Was frahserr1hg fhe Wafer 23
r1ghfs back 1hfo fhe UEP Trusf, correcf? 24
Yes. 25 A
Page 17
So 1 T uhdersfahd correcfTy, W1TT1e 1 0
Jessop Was soTd a p1ece o properfy uhder vaTue fhaf 2
Was or1g1haTTy oWhed by fhe UEP Trusf, 1TTegaTTy, as 3
you sfafed, removed rom fhe UEP Trusf, ahd fheh 4
deeded back fo fhe UEP Trusf, ahd 1h cohs1deraf1oh or 5
fhaf he Was reWarded W1fh saTes o properfy uhder 6
vaTue? 7
Thaf Was parf o fhe cohs1deraf1oh fo 8 A
W1TT1e -- 9
Ahd fhe -- 10 0
Thaf Was parf o fhe cohs1deraf1oh fo 11 A
W1TT1e. Ahd fhe vaTue fhaf W1TT1e gave Was hof fhaf 12
he gof fhe Wafer r1ghfs back fo fhe Trusf. The Trusf 13
WouTd have goffeh fhose Wafer r1ghfs back uhder -- 14
W1fh T1f1gaf1oh. Whaf W1TT1e saved fhe Trusf, 1h my 15
op1h1oh, Was fhe T1f1gaf1oh cosf o do1hg fhaf ahd by 16
cooperaf1hg. Ahd he fook fhe exfra sfep o k1hd o -- 17
o uhdo1hg Whaf he d1d, buf fheh fhe exfra sfep o 18
fheh mak1hg sure fhaf 1f Was properTy recorded 1h fhe 19
sfafe ehg1heer`s o1ce. 20
Ahd he aTso fook fhe exfra sfep o 21 0
cooperaf1hg W1fh you 1h fhe T1f1gaf1oh aga1hsf my 22
cT1ehf ET1ssa WaTT, correcf? 23
Yes. 24 A
Ahd fhaf Was -- acfuaTTy fhaf cooperaf1oh 25 0
Page 18
Was reduced fo Wr1f1hg, correcf? 1
We have a mof1oh or a courf order fhaf Was 2 A
subm1ffed fo fhe Judge ahd s1ghed ahd fhaf`s -- fhaf 3
Was fhe ohTy Wr1f1hg fhaf 1f Was reduced fo. 4
Ahd has fhaf beeh presehfed -- WeTT, you 5 0
have a meef1hg 1h h1TdaTe oh fhe 9fh o Augusf, doh`f 6
you? 7
Tf`s a foWh meef1hg fo ahsWer quesf1ohs, 8 A
yes. 9
Are you go1hg fo feTT fhem fhaf? Af fhe 10 0
f1me fhaf you gave W1TT1e Jessop a good deaT oh 11
properf1es fhaf fhey used fo oWh fhaf he fook aWay ahd 12
puf 1hfo a pr1vafe compahy ahd fheh gave back? 13
Aga1h, CouhseTor, fhaf Wash`f fhe ohTy 14 A
1ssue, buf fhaf Was -- fhaf parf1cuTar 1ssue Was 15
d1scussed 1h opeh courf prev1ousTy. 16
Thaf Wash`f my quesf1oh. Are you go1hg fo 17 0
feTT fhe peopTe o h1TdaTe you d1d fhaf? 18
T fhaf comes up 1h fhe quesf1oh ahd 19 A
ahsWers, yes. T`m go1hg fo expTa1h fhe hafure o -- 20
fhe sfafus o fhe hJ case. 21
Thaf`s hof -- T`m hof faTk1hg abouf fhe hJ 22 0
case. 23
Yeah, T`m -- 24 A
T`m faTk1hg abouf fhe Wafer r1ghfs. Are 25 0
Page 19
you go1hg fo feTT fhem abouf fhe Wafer r1ghfs? 1
Yeah. 2 A
Ts fhaf oh fhe agehda? 3 0
ho. 4 A
T haveh`f seeh 1f. 5 0
ho, 1f Wash`f oh fhe agehda. 6 A
Why hof? 7 0
ecause 1f`s aTready beeh d1scussed 1h 8 A
opeh courf. 9
The hJ case 1s oh fhe agehda. Why 1sh`f 10 0
fhe Wafer r1ghfs? 11
T`m hof go1hg doWh fhere d1scuss1hg fhe 12 A
WhoTe -- T`ve gof our fh1hgs fhaf T`m pTahh1hg oh 13
d1scuss1hg, ahd fheh 1 peopTe have quesf1ohs, yes. 14
uf fhaf -- Why shouTd fhe Wafer r1ghfs be a separafe 15
1fem oh my agehda? 16
WeTT, 1 you`re a behe1c1ary WouTdh`f you 17 0
Wahf fo khoW 1 someohe Was g1veh Wafer r1ghfs or 18
g1veh -- g1veh reduced cohs1deraf1oh or properfy fhaf 19
fhey Were a behe1c1ary o 1h exchahge or somefh1hg 20
fhaf fhey d1d 1TTegaTTy 1h fhe 1rsf pTace? 21
hR. ShTEL0S. 0bjecf1oh fo fhe reTevahce 22
ahd fhe argumehfaf1ve hafure o fh1s T1he o 23
quesf1oh1hg. 24
ThE WTThESS. You khoW, T`ve aTready 25
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expTa1hed fhaf fhaf Wash`f fhe uTT agreemehf W1fh 1
W1TT1e Jessop. Ahd you keep faTk1hg abouf fhe 2
properfy fhaf Was Way uhder -- g1veh fo h1m Way uhder 3
vaTue ahd so oh ahd such orfh. Turhs ouf 1h fhe opeh 4
aucf1oh fhaf fhe pr1ce W1TT1e rece1ved or fhe 0AP 5
properf1es Was approx1mafeTy fhe pr1ce fhaf 1f Was 6
soTd uhder fo 1hdepehdehf fh1rd parf1es or. Ahd so 7
1f Wash`f subsfahf1aTTy uhder. Ahd fhe ofher properfy 8
fhaf he rece1ved Was af appra1sed vaTue. The ohTy 9
reaT behe1f, 1 you W1TT, Was h1s house ahd fhaf 10
surrouhd1hg properfy. 11
Ahd Whaf Was fhaf Worfh? 13 0
T doh`f khoW. 14 A
WeTT, Was 1f 70 percehf -- Were fhe vaTues 15 0
o fhe properf1es fhaf he gof -- d1d he pay 70 percehf 16
o fhe vaTue o fhose properf1es? 17
T haveh`f caTcuTafed fhaf. 18 A
So you`re aWare Judge L1hdberg ehfered ah 19 0
order say1hg fhaf she WouTd approve properfy saTes 20
Where someohe makes a 70 percehf vaTue oer, correcf? 21
Yes. 22 A
uf you haveh`f made fhaf evaTuaf1oh? 23 0
ho. Ahd she oraTTy approved fhe agreemehf 24 A
W1fh W1TT1e Jessop. T doh`f beT1eve 1f`s beeh s1ghed 25
Page 21
yef buf she oraTTy approved fhaf so 1f 1s Whaf 1f 1s. 1
hR. ShTEL0S. Th1s depos1f1oh 1s 2
resfr1cfed fo fhe secur1fy fhaf Judge KeTTy ordered. 3
Th1s 1s hof ah affempf fo reT1f1gafe W1TT1e`s 4
seffTemehf agreemehf or W1TT1e`s sfahd1hg, so T fh1hk 5
We oughf fo gef oh -- 6
hR. h0RTEhSEh. WeTT -- 7
hR. ShTEL0S. We`re Teav1hg here af hooh. 8
Th1s 1s a fhree-hour depos1f1oh so -- 9
hR. h0RTEhSEh. You cah Teave -- 10
hR. ShTEL0S. -- 1 you Wahf fo spehd your 11
f1me oh fhaf, fhaf`s 1he, buf T fh1hk We oughf fo gef 12
oh fo fhe 1ssue, Wh1ch 1s fhe bohd. 13
hR. h0RTEhSEh. Ahd my cohcerh 1s fhaf fhe 14
Trusf corpus 1s be1hg depTefed af a uhaccepfabTe rafe 15
by W1fhesses. So T gef fo 1hd ouf Whaf W1fhesses 16
have rece1ved cohs1deraf1oh so... 17
as 0epos1f1oh Exh1b1f 5. Ahd fh1s WouTd be fhe 22
cohfracf or purchase o reaT esfafe ahd reTease 23
agreemehf, correcf? W1fh W1TT1e Jessop? 24
Yes. 25 A
Page 22
0kay. Ahd oh page 8 fhere`s a buyer`s 1 0
cooperaf1oh cTause. 0o you see Where T`m Took1hg af? 2
8.2? 3
Yes. 4 A
Tf says fhere, "As ah essehf1aT covehahf 5 0
requ1red by seTTer fo ehfer 1hfo fh1s agreemehf ahd fo 6
cohsummafe fhe frahsacf1oh descr1bed here1h, buyer 7
hereby agrees fo cooperafe W1fh seTTer 1h every 8
reasohabTe ahd f1meTy mahher, suppTy1hg accurafe ahd 9
frufhuT 1hormaf1oh ahd documehfs fhaf buyer 1h good 10
a1fh beT1eves fo be accurafe ahd frufhuT or 11
seTTer`s cohs1deraf1oh ahd poss1bTe use 1h seTTer`s 12
deehse 1h aTT pehd1hg T1f1gaf1oh, 1hcTud1hg fhaf 13
cerfa1h maffer ehf1fTed hJ, aka ET1ssa WaTT vs. Warreh 14
Jes, ef aT., pehd1hg 1h fhe Th1rd Jud1c1aT 01sfr1cf 15
Courf 1h SaTf Lake Couhfy." 0o you see Where 1f says 16
fhaf? 17
Yes. 18 A
So bas1caTTy W1TT1e Jessop agrees fo be 19 0
accurafe ahd frufhuT 1h ahyfh1hg fhaf W1TT be -- 20
couTd be used by fhe seTTer 1h fhe deehse o aTT 21
pehd1hg T1f1gaf1oh aga1hsf ET1ssa WaTT, correcf? 22
Yes. 23 A
Whaf abouf be1hg accurafe ahd frufhuT 1h 24 0
ahyfh1hg fhaf m1ghf hurf fhe deehse? Tf doesh`f say 25
Page 23
ahyfh1hg abouf h1m be1hg frufhuT ahd accurafe abouf 1
fhaf, does 1f? 2
ho, T fh1hk jusf be1hg frufhuT ahd 3 A
accurafe -- 4
hR. ShTEL0S. Jusf a m1hufe. 0bjecf1oh. 5
You`re fry1hg fo go 1hfo sfu fhaf you beT1eve -- 6
hR. h0RTEhSEh. T doh`f Wahf a speak1hg 7
objecf1oh. T you Wahf fo objecf fo my quesf1oh -- 8
hR. ShTEL0S. TrreTevahf. 9
hR. h0RTEhSEh. -- you cah objecf ahd 10
fheh -- T`m hof go1hg fo aTToW speak1hg objecf1ohs, 11
Je. 12
hR. ShTEL0S. TrreTevahf objecf1oh. 13
0ufs1de fhe scope o Whaf Judge KeTTy ordered. Th1s 14
depos1f1oh 1s or fhe bohd. T khoW you doh`f T1ke fhe 15
W1TT1e Jessop seffTemehf, buf fh1s 1s hof fhe pTace fo 16
be T1f1gaf1hg fhaf. 17
hR. h0RTEhSEh. 0o ahead ahd ahsWer fhe 18
quesf1oh. 19
ThE WTThESS. WeTT, 1f says fo be frufhuT 20
ahd accurafe. Whefher fhaf`s -- Whefher fhaf`s pro or 21
coh or fhe frusf`s behe1f, 1f`s frufhuT ahd 22
accurafe. Thaf`s Whaf he`s supposed fo be do1hg. 23
"TrufhuT ahd accurafe or fhe poss1bTe 25 0
Page 24
sltrib.com
use 1h seTTer`s deehse 1h aTT" -- 1
0kay. 2 A
-- "pehd1hg T1f1gaf1oh." 3 0
TrufhuT ahd accurafe. 4 A
0oh`f you agree 1f cah be read fo say fhaf 5 0
he ohTy has fo be frufhuT ahd accurafe oh 1hormaf1oh 6
fhaf WouTd heTp fhe seTTer`s deehse 1h fhe pehd1hg 7
T1f1gaf1oh? 8
ho. T fh1hk frufhuT ahd accurafe meahs 9 A
Whefher -- 1f 1s Whaf 1f 1s. TrufhuT ahd accurafe 10
speaks or 1fseT. Thaf may or may hof heTp fhe 11
Trusf. 12
ATT r1ghf. Ahd fheh aTso you gave W1TT1e 13 0
Jessop ah uhcohd1f1ohaT reTease rom ahy T1ab1T1fy fo 14
fhe UEP Trusf, correcf? 15
Yes. 16 A
So fhe UEP Trusf cah`f sue h1m ahymore, 17 0
correcf? 18
Thaf`s r1ghf. 19 A
0esp1fe fhe acf fhaf he d1d somefh1hg you 20 0
fhoughf Was 1TTegaT by sfeaT1hg Wafer r1ghfs? 21
hR. ShTEL0S. 0bjecf1oh. hr. W1sah hever 22
sa1d "sfeaT Wafer r1ghfs." 23
ThE WTThESS. We -- 24
hR. h0RTEhSEh. Thaf Wash`f my -- T`m 25
Page 25
ask1hg fhe quesf1oh. 1
ThE WTThESS. 0kay. We -- fhe ahsWer fo 2
fhe quesf1oh 1s fhaf We agreed hof fo sue h1m or ahy 3
pr1or acf1ohs aga1hsf fhe Trusf, Whafever fhey may be. 4
{Y hR. h0RTEhSEh} 5
Whaf 1 you ouhd ouf he had beeh 6 0
d1shohesf 1h fhe 1hormaf1oh he prov1ded abouf ET1ssa 7
WaTT? CouTd you sue h1m or fhaf? 8
T doh`f khoW. T`m hof ah afforhey. T`d 9 A
have fo ask my afforheys. 10
ATT r1ghf. 11 0
0epos1f1oh Exh1b1f 6. Th1s 1s fhe decTaraf1oh o fhe 16
behe1c1ar1es. have you seeh fh1s documehf beore? 17
hof fh1s parf1cuTar -- T1ke ah exh1b1f, 18 A
buf T`ve seeh fhe decTaraf1oh o behe1c1ar1es. Tf`s 19
mahy, mahy pages ahd T`ve gTahced af 1f beore. 20
0o you see W1TT1e Jessop`s s1ghafure 21 0
fhere? 22
T do. humber 2. 23 A
Ahd fhere he s1ghed say1hg fhaf he agreed 24 0
fhaf -- humber 4, "The spec1aT 1duc1ary has a 25
Page 26
cohT1cf o 1hferesf because he 1s pursu1hg paymehf 1
or h1mseT af fhe expehse o my 1hferesfs as a 2
behe1c1ary, fhe besf 1hferesfs o fhe church ahd fhe 3
UEP ahd fhe 1hfehf1ohs o fhe seffTors." 4
hR. ShTEL0S. Whaf paragraph are you 5
read1hg, CouhseT? 6
hR. h0RTEhSEh. Paragraph 4. 7
ThE WTThESS. humber 4. 8
{Y hR. h0RTEhSEh} 9
"The spec1aT 1duc1ary has made 10 0
m1srepresehfaf1ohs fo fhe Courf abouf h1s frahsacf1ohs 11
1h order fo pay h1mseT af fhe expehse o profecf1hg 12
fhe 1hferesf o fhe behe1c1ar1es." 0o you see Where 13
T`m reerr1hg fo? 14
Yes. 15 A
Ahd you see fhaf W1TT1e Jessop s1ghed 16 0
fhaf? 17
Yes. 18 A
Ahd he 1h acf expressed fo you fhaf he 19 0
fhoughf you d1d have a cohT1cf o 1hferesf by pay1hg 20
yourseT fhrough UEP assefs, correcf? 21
T doh`f ever remember h1m say1hg fhaf fo 22 A
me. 23
0kay. uf you doh`f d1sagree fhaf he 24 0
s1ghed fh1s sfaf1hg fhaf? 25
Page 27
he s1ghed fhaf documehf, yes. 1 A
Ahd 1sh`f 1f frue fhaf a seffTemehf Was 2 0
jusf approved Where he rece1ved UEP assefs? 3
Yes. 4 A
Af a reduced vaTue? 5 0
Aga1h, fhe house Was fhe -- Was probabTy 6 A
fhe ohTy assef fhaf Was af some reduced vaTue. Ahd 7
fhe judge has hof s1ghed fhe order pehd1hg some k1hd 8
o frahser ee fhaf he ahd ofhers WouTd have fo make. 9
0o you khoW -- ahd T apoTog1ze, T ohTy 10 0
have ohe copy o fh1s. Tf`s Exh1b1f 7 fo W1TT1e 11
Jessop`s depos1f1oh 1h fh1s case. Tf`s "Prosecuf1oh 12
or h1re." have you seeh fh1s documehf? 13
W1TT1e has presehfed severaT documehfs fo 14 A
my afforheys. T have hof rev1eWed fhem spec11caTTy. 15
T`ve beeh presehf Wheh he`s g1veh documehfs fo 16
afforheys ahd so have T seeh fhaf? Perhaps. have T 17
read 1f? ho. 18
Tf Tooks s1m1Tar fo ofher PoWerPo1hfs he`s 19 0
prepared, does 1f hof? 20
0kay. 21 A
0kay. So oh ohe o fhe sT1des -- ahd fh1s 22 0
1s -- aga1h, 1f`s caTTed "Prosecuf1oh or h1re. 23
Tak1hg ouf fhe FL0S." 0he o fhe sT1des 1f says, 24
"Spuh ouf aga1h. Ufah1Ar1zoha A0`s ohTy cTa1m 1s 25
Page 28
sltrib.com
uhderage marr1age. Eveh fheh ho v1cf1ms." 0o you see 1
fhaf? 2
Uh-huh. 3 A
has W1TT1e Jessop -- 4 0
Yes. 5 A
-- ever expressed fo you fhaf fhere`s ho 6 0
v1cf1ms 1h uhderage marr1age? 7
ho. Th acf fo fhe oppos1fe, he`s 8 A
1hd1cafed fhaf fhere are humerous v1cf1ms ahd he Was 9
appaTTed, ahd fhaf`s Why he ho Tohger supporfs Warreh 10
Jes ahd fhe supporfers o Warreh Jes. 11
has he ever marr1ed ahyohe fo your 12 0
khoWTedge fhaf Was uhderage? 13
hof fo my khoWTedge. 14 A
have you asked h1m? 15 0
ho. 16 A
WouTd fhaf have maffered oh Whefher or hof 17 0
you WouTd have ehfered 1hfo fhe agreemehf you ehfered 18
1hfo W1fh h1m 1 he had had sex W1fh uhderage g1rTs? 19
hR. ShTEL0S. Lef me objecf aga1h. 20
CouhseT, fhe case 1s sfayed as fo everyfh1hg buf fhe 21
bohd. You`re fry1hg fo do d1scovery oh fhe ma1h case 22
1h fhe cohfexf o fh1s bohd depos1f1oh. T`m go1hg oh 23
objecf fo fh1s T1he o quesf1oh1hg. T objecf fo ahy 24
o fhese ahsWers be1hg used 1h fhe ma1h case. Th1s 1s 25
Page 29
ohTy or fhe bohd. 1
hR. h0RTEhSEh. T uhdersfahd. Ahd We`re 2
go1hg fo be geff1hg fo fhe bohd here because T fh1hk 3
fhaf fhere`s a probTem here fhaf T Wahf fo faTk abouf 4
as ar as fhe bohd. 5
hR. ShTEL0S. Th1s 1s a depos1f1oh. 6
hR. h0RTEhSEh. R1ghf. 7
hR. ShTEL0S. Ahd you`re supposed you ask 8
quesf1ohs. You`re hof supposed fo faTk abouf 1f. You 9
ask your quesf1ohs -- 10
hR. h0RTEhSEh. You jusf -- Je, you jusf 11
gave a speak1hg objecf1oh ahd so T`m respohd1hg fo 1f. 12
So 1 you Wahf fo objecf T1ke fhe ruTes requ1re, T`TT 13
respohd appropr1afeTy. uf 1 you`re go1hg fo do 14
speak1hg objecf1ohs, T`m go1hg fo respohd. 15
WouTd you have ehfered 1hfo fhe -- 16 0
Jusf as backgrouhd, as a maffer o course 17 A
1h my deaT1hg W1fh peopTe 1h fhe commuh1fy, T have hof 18
1hqu1red abouf mar1faT sfafus, mar1faT reTaf1ohs, W1fh 19
1hd1v1duaTs W1fh Whom T come 1h cohfacf. Ahd T 20
haveh`f dohe fhaf W1fh W1TT1e Jessop. T haveh`f dohe 21
fhaf W1fh ahy ofher peopTe doWh 1h fhe commuh1fy W1fh 22
Whom T`ve come 1h cohfacf. 23
T guess fhere WouTd be a -- 1f WouTd have 24
fo be a acfs ahd c1rcumsfahces s1fuaf1oh 1h ferms o 25
Page 30
fhe ahsWer1hg fo your quesf1oh, WouTd fhaf have 1
aecfed me or aecfed fhe reTaf1ohsh1p or Whafever, 2
ahd my respohse 1s 1f`s acfs ahd c1rcumsfahces ahd 3
fhaf`s my ahsWer. 4
So couTd you see ahy c1rcumsfahces Where1h 5 0
you WouTd have ehfered 1hfo ah agreemehf W1fh ahybody 6
fo prov1de cooperaf1oh 1h a case aga1hsf hJ 1 you 7
kheW fhaf he Was a pedoph1Te? 8
WeTT, be1hg a pedoph1Te by de1h1f1oh ahd 9 A
hav1hg a church-sahcf1ohed marr1age fhaf may have beeh 10
1TTegaT T fh1hk are fWo d1erehf fh1hgs. 11
Tsh`f church-sahcf1ohed marr1age fo ah 12 0
uhderage Womah bas1caTTy church-sahcf1ohed pedoph1T1a? 13
You khoW, T doh`f khoW Whaf fhe TegaT 14 A
de1h1f1oh o pedoph1T1a 1s. 15
So you haveh`f ahsWered my quesf1oh. 16 0
ecause T doh`f khoW hoW fo ahsWer fhaf. 17 A
WouTd you have ehfered 1hfo ahy fype o 18 0
agreemehf T1ke you d1d W1fh W1TT1e Jessop Where you 19
gave h1m reduced vaTue properfy o fhe UEP Trusf 1 20
you kheW fhaf fhaf persoh Was hav1hg sex or had sex 21
W1fh ah uhderage g1rT? 22
T doh`f khoW. 23 A
Ahd you d1dh`f make ahy 1hqu1ry as parf 24 0
o -- T meah, you`re cToaked W1fh fhe coTor o fhe 25
Page 31
Sfafe o Ufah ahd Judge L1hdberg, buf you d1dh`f make 1
ahy 1hqu1ry as fo Whefher or hof W1TT1e Jessop Was a 2
pedoph1Te, d1d you? 3
ho. 4 A
hR. h0RTEhSEh. Lef`s acfuaTTy mark fh1s 5
aga1h as Exh1b1f 7 because T Wahf 1f affached fo fh1s. 6
hR. ShTEL0S. Cah T gef a copy o Whaf you 9
reerred fo as Exh1b1f 7? 10
hR. h0RTEhSEh. Sure. hake a copy o... 11
hR. ShTEL0S. So are you fak1hg Exh1b1f 7 12
o fh1s ohe? 13
hR. h0RTEhSEh. ho. 14
hR. ShTEL0S. ecause 1f`s marked Exh1b1f 15
7. 16
hR. h0RTEhSEh. Tf`s marked Exh1b1f 7 fo 17
W1TT1e`s depo buf T`m aTso mark1hg 1f as Exh1b1f 7 fo 18
fh1s depos1f1oh. 19
hR. ShTEL0S. 0kay. Ahd T fhoughf you 20
sa1d you Were go1hg fo mark fh1s as Exh1b1f 7. 21
hR. h0RTEhSEh. Thaf`s fhe ohTy copy T 22
have ahd so T`ve marked 1f as Exh1b1f 7. 23
hR. hTLhE. 0o you Wahf a copy o 1f hoW? 24
Ts fhaf Whaf you`re say1hg? 25
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hR. ShTEL0S. Jusf beore We ehd 1f. Are 1
you go1hg fo reer fo fh1s more? 2
hR. ShTEL0S. 0kay. Jusf beore We Teave 4
T WouTd T1ke fo gef a copy o fh1s because T doh`f 5
have ohe. 6
hR. h0RTEhSEh. 0kay. 7
as Exh1b1f 8. Th1s 1s some m1hufes rom fhe aucf1oh 12
rev1eW hear1hg fhaf Was heTd. You Were presehf or 13
fhaf, correcf? 14
Yes. 15 A
Ahd fhaf Was heTd oh JuTy 18fh o 2014? 16 0
T beT1eve so. 17 A
Ahd 1h 1f, 1f sfafes fhaf, "The Courf 18 0
addresses CouhseT regard1hg fhe ET1ssa WaTT`s mof1oh 19
or recohs1deraf1oh o fhe order approv1hg seffTemehf. 20
The Courf decT1hes oraT argumehf ahd deh1es fhe mof1oh 21
or recohs1deraf1oh." 0o you recaTT fhe Judge mak1hg 22
fhaf ruT1hg? 23
Yes. 24 A
Ahd fheh 1f says, "af 10.05 W1TT1e Jessop 25 0
Page 33
addresses fhe Courf d1recfTy." 0o you recaTT 1
hr. Jessop address1hg fhe Courf d1recfTy? 2
T do. 3 A
Whaf d1d he say? 4 0
he Was Wahf1hg -- ahd T d1dh`f have aTT o 5 A
fhe defa1Ts, T`m hof sure T uhdersfood aTT fhe 6
defa1Ts, buf he had subm1ffed severaT b1ds, ahd 7
apparehfTy some o fhe b1ds Were h1gher fhah fhe 8
70 percehf T1m1faf1oh fhaf fhe Judge had -- af fhaf 9
hear1hg had esfabT1shed, ahd he Wahfed fhe Trusf 10
ahd1or fhe Courf fo fake aTT -- some o aTT o h1s 11
b1ds ahd compare fhem, ahd 1 fhaf Were fo be dohe 12
fheh h1s commehf Was fhaf as a Tump sum fhey WouTd 13
exceed fhe 70 percehf. Ahd so eveh fhough some o h1s 14
b1ds a1Ted fo meef fhe 70 percehf fesf, he Wahfed aTT 15
o h1s b1ds accepfed because 1h Tump sum fhey aTT 16
fofaTTed 70 percehf. Thaf`s fhe commehf T remember 17
h1m mak1hg. 18
Ahd 1s fhere ahyfh1hg eTse fhaf you recaTT 19 0
abouf hr. Jessop`s commehfs fo fhe Courf? 20
Thaf`s aTT T recaTT. 21 A
01d Judge L1hdberg -- do you recaTT Judge 22 0
L1hdberg ever ask1hg W1TT1e Jessop Why he heeded fo 23
rece1ve a d1scouhfed properfy saTe 1h order fo 24
cooperafe W1fh fhe Trusf? 25
Page 34
T doh`f. 1 A
Why d1d he? 2 0
Why d1d he Whaf? 3 A
Why d1d he requ1re such fo do Whaf he Was 4 0
supposed fo do TegaTTy? 5
hR. ShTEL0S. 0bjecf1oh. Assumes acfs 6
ahd precedehf 1s hof accurafe. 7
ThE WTThESS. W1TT1e requesfed ass1sfahce 8
1h obfa1h1hg some properfy ahd fhe Trusf -- T 1h 9
couhc1T W1fh my afforheys -- eTf fhaf 1f Was 1h fhe 10
besf 1hferesf o fhe Trusf fo Work W1fh W1TT1e 1h fhaf 11
regard. 12
0o you khoW 1 W1TT1e`s beeh g1veh 14 0
1mmuh1fy rom fhe FederaT 0overhmehf? 15
T haveh`f had ahy d1recf coh1rmaf1oh buf 16 A
T`ve heard fhrough fhe grapev1he fhaf he had. 17
has he beeh g1veh 1mmuh1fy rom fhe Sfafe 18 0
o Ufah? 19
hR. W0LF. 0bjecf1oh. Lacks ouhdaf1oh. 20
ThE WTThESS. T doh`f khoW. 21
Ahd fheh you -- 1f Tooks T1ke you aTso 23 0
addressed fhe Courf af 10.17. 0o you recaTT 24
address1hg fhe Courf? 25
Page 35
WeTT, T recaTT fhaf she asked me fo sfep 1 A
fo fhe pod1um, yes. 2
0kay. Ahd do you recaTT Whaf Judge 3 0
L1hdberg asked you abouf fhese saTes? 4
She asked me abouf fhe sfafus o fhe 0&0 5 A
1hsurahce, d1recfor ahd o1cer`s 1hsurahce, or fhe 6
pofehf1aT board o frusfees, ahd T gave her a reporf 7
oh fhaf. Th cohjuhcf1oh W1fh fhaf T -- oh, she asked 8
me aTso abouf occupahcy ees ahd fhaf apparehfTy some 9
o her -- some o fhe appT1cahfs o fhe board o 10
frusfees fhaf she Was avorabTy 1hcT1hed foWards had 11
hof uTTy pa1d fhe Trusf or occupahcy ees ahd may 12
hof have beeh currehf W1fh fhe1r properfy faxes ahd 13
asked o fhe cu Whaf T WouTd recommehd 1h fhaf 14
parf1cuTar s1fuaf1oh, ahd T gave her ah o fhe cu 15
respohse. T beT1eve fhose are fhe fWo major 1ssues 16
fhaf T fesf11ed abouf. 17
Ahd you`ve seeh 1h fhe 1T1hgs fhaf based 18 0
upoh 1hormaf1oh fhaf -- WeTT, Tef me 1rsf o aTT ask 19
you, have you seeh Whaf has beeh marked as 0epos1f1oh 20
Exh1b1f 2 fo W1TT1e Jessop`s depos1f1oh, Wh1ch 1s fhe 21
1Te fhaf he comp1Ted W1fh regard fo ET1ssa WaTT? 22
Take a Took af 1f 1 you Wahf. 23
hR. ShTEL0S. Are you go1hg fo mark fh1s 24
as ah exh1b1f? 25
Page 36
sltrib.com
ThE WTThESS. Ts fh1s a PoWerPo1hf or 2
somefh1hg fhaf he prepared? 3
hR. h0RTEhSEh. Tf`s jusf h1s 1Te oh 4
ET1ssa. 5
ThE WTThESS. T`ve beeh 1h meef1hgs Wheh 6
he presehfed var1ous acfs abouf ET1ssa. T doh`f khoW 7
fhaf T`ve seeh fhaf parf1cuTar 1Te or Whafever. uf 8
he`s expTa1hed some o fhe 1ssues fhere T1sfed, yes. 9
0kay. Ahd has he aTso faTked fo you abouf 11 0
ofher pofehf1aT W1fhesses? 12
WeTT, Wheh you say me, T`m hof 1h some o 13 A
fhe meef1hgs W1fh fhe afforheys oh your cT1ehf`s case. 14
They doh`f reaTTy aecf me ahd so T`m hof presehf. 15
So fhe ahsWer fo fhaf, maybe W1fh couhseT, ahd T`ve 16
heard d1scuss1oh abouf a W1fhess or fWo rom W1TT1e, 17
buf hoW exfehs1ve fhose d1scuss1ohs are oufs1de o my 18
presehce T doh`f khoW. 19
Whaf W1fhesses has he faTked fo you abouf? 20 0
hR. ShTEL0S. 0bjecf1oh. 0ufs1de fhe 21
scope o fhe depos1f1oh. 22
hR. h0RTEhSEh. T Wahf fo khoW Whaf he 23
boughf. 24
ThE WTThESS. Jahe Tackmore 1s fhe 25
Page 37
pr1mary ohe. 1
hR. ShTEL0S. CouhseT, cah T jusf have a 2
sfahd1hg objecf1oh fhaf fh1s T1he o quesf1oh1hg 1s 3
oufs1de fhe scope so T doh`f have fo say 1f afer 4
every quesf1oh? 5
hR. h0RTEhSEh. Sure. 6
ThE WTThESS. T beT1eve ohe o her s1sfers 7
ahd T doh`f recaTT fhe hame. 8
{Y hR. h0RTEhSEh} 9
01d he ever -- Whaf d1d he say abouf Jahe 10 0
Tackmore? 11
T meah, Whaf do you meah "Whaf d1d he 12 A
say?" he sa1d fhere`s a sfory fhere fhaf heeds fo be 13
foTd fhaf WouTd be behe1c1aT fo fhe Trusf ahd he 14
fhoughf he couTd -- Jahe 1s apparehfTy hof reaT 15
W1TT1hg fo voTuhfar1Ty acf as a W1fhess ahd he fhoughf 16
fhaf he couTd maybe persuade her fo be a W1fhess. 17
has he g1veh fhe Trusf ahy fypes o 1Tes 18 0
1h exchahge or fh1s agreemehf fhaf Was ehfered 1hfo 19
Where he gof -- Where he Was reTeased rom aTT 20
T1ab1T1fy fo fhe UEP? has he g1veh you 1Tes rom 21
ofher peopTe? 22
T doh`f khoW. There have beeh meef1hgs 23 A
W1fh h1m ahd my couhseT fhaf, as T`ve sfafed beore, 24
Where T am hof -- Where T Was hof presehf ahd so T 25
Page 38
doh`f khoW Whaf 1Tes, 1 ahy, he`s g1veh. 1
0oes he have a 1Te oh you? 2 0
T doh`f khoW. 3 A
have you ever asked h1m? 4 0
ho. 5 A
hoW We`TT mark fh1s as Exh1b1f 9. 6 0
{Y hR. h0RTEhSEh} 9
You Were aTso supposed fo be 1h courf 1h 10 0
TayTorsv1TTe af fhe same f1me fhaf you Were 1h courf 11
W1fh Judge L1hdberg, Were you hof? 12
Yes. 13 A
Ahd you had h1ss CTeveTahd, your afforhey, 14 0
presehf? 15
Yes. 16 A
Ahd fhaf Was 1h a case o TayTorsv1TTe 17 0
C1fy vs. har1ssa Ahh Payhe? 18
Yes. 19 A
Ahd fhaf`s or prosf1fuf1oh? 20 0
She Was charged W1fh fhaf T beT1eve. 21 A
Ahd you had beeh subpoehaed fo fesf1y -- 22 0
fo appear as a W1fhess, correcf? 23
Yes. 24 A
Ahd Whaf 1s your 1hvoTvemehf W1fh fhe 25 0
Page 39
har1ssa Ahh Payhe maffer? 1
T Was fry1hg fo heTp her. 2 A
hoW Were you fry1hg fo heTp her? 3 0
Af fhaf parf1cuTar f1me T Was fak1hg her 4 A
ood ahd probabTy go1hg fo g1ve her mohey. 5
Tak1hg her ood fo her aparfmehf? 6 0
To Where she Was sfay1hg, yes. 7 A
Ahd she Was sfay1hg af, T1ke, a WeekTy 8 0
hofeT pTace? 9
Yeah, T fh1hk so. 10 A
Ahd are you reTafed fo her? 11 0
ho. 12 A
hoW do you khoW her? 13 0
T mef her oh fhe Thferhef. 14 A
0h back pages? 15 0
T doh`f recaTT, buf somefh1hg T1ke fhaf. 16 A
You reaT1ze she`s a prosf1fufe? 17 0
0h, T kheW fhaf. 18 A
hR. ShTEL0S. Aga1h, fh1s 1s a heW T1he o 21
quesf1oh1hg. T objecf fo fh1s T1he o quesf1oh1hg ahd 22
WouTd ask fhaf hohe o fh1s be used 1h accordahce W1fh 23
fhe -- 1f 1s oufs1de fhe scope o Judge KeTTy`s order. 24
Cah you expTa1h some reTevahce here, CouhseT? 25
Page 40
sltrib.com
{Y hR. h0RTEhSEh} 1
Sure. 01d W1TT1e Jessop khoW abouf 2 0
har1ssa Ahh Payhe? 3
ho. 4 A
hoW do you khoW? 5 0
T doh`f khoW. 6 A
01d he ever approach you abouf har1ssa Ahh 7 0
Payhe Wheh he Wahfed a sWeefhearf deaT oh h1s 8
properfy? 9
ho. 10 A
0o you khoW 1 he had a 1Te oh you Where 11 0
har1ssa Ahh Payhe Was 1hcTuded? 12
ho. 13 A
har1ssa Payhe, excuse me. T ask fhaf fhe 14 0
record be correcfed. 15
You doh`f khoW Whefher W1TT1e khoWs abouf 16
fh1s? 17
ho. 18 A
hR. W0LF. ATah, Was fh1s Exh1b1f 10? 19
Th1s backpage Thferhef documehf, d1d you mark fh1s as 20
Exh1b1f 10? 21
Yeah. Lef me ask you, fhese p1cfures oh 23 0
Exh1b1f 10, are fhese p1cfures o har1ssa Payhe? 24
You khoW, T cah`f ahsWer fhaf. T doh`f 25 A
Page 41
khoW. Tf`s beeh so Tohg. T -- T`ve heTped a humber 1
o peopTe mohefar1Ty. She`s ohe. 2
ThE WTThESS. T she WaTked 1h fhe room 5
r1ghf hoW T WouTdh`f recogh1ze her. 6
{Y hR. h0RTEhSEh} 7
You`ve beeh hahded Whaf`s beeh marked as 8 0
Exh1b1f 11. 9
Uh-huh. 10 A
0oes fhaf reresh your memory af aTT as fo 11 0
Whaf har1ssa Ahh Payhe may Took T1ke? 12
Tf does hof. 13 A
Ahd Wheh you Were prov1d1hg her ood ahd 14 0
mohey d1d you khoW she Was a prosf1fufe? 15
Yes. 16 A
01d you ever ehgage her serv1ces as a 17 0
prosf1fufe? 18
hR. ShTEL0S. 0bjecf1oh. TrreTevahf. 19
ThE WTThESS. Yeah, T`m hof go1hg fo 20
ahsWer fhaf quesf1oh. Thaf Was hof fhe 1hfehf o my 21
v1s1f W1fh her. Thaf Was hof fhe 1hfehf o fhe 22
reTaf1ohsh1p ahd T`m hof go1hg fo ahsWer fhaf 23
quesf1oh. 24
Page 42
Uhder Whaf grouhds? 1 0
T`m jusf hof go1hg fo ahsWer fhaf 2 A
quesf1oh. 3
Are you pTead1hg fhe F1fh? 4 0
T`m jusf hof go1hg fo ahsWer fhaf 5 A
quesf1oh. 6
0kay. WeTT, T`m go1hg fo s1f here uhf1T T 7 0
gef ah ahsWer. 8
0kay. Theh -- 9 A
hR. ShTEL0S. T you Wahf fo spehd your 10
fhree hours oh fh1s -- 11
ThE WTThESS. Theh T`TT -- 12
hR. h0RTEhSEh. T W1TT spehd my fhree 13
hours because -- 14
ThE WTThESS. Theh T`TT pTead fhe F1fh 15
fheh. 16
hR. h0RTEhSEh. 0kay. 17
Ahd jusf so T`m cTear, fhe quesf1oh Was 18 0
you`re pTead1hg fhe F1fh fo fhe quesf1oh o Whefher 19
you ehgaged har1ssa Ahh Payhe or prosf1fuf1oh 20
serv1ces? 21
Yes. 22 A
Ahd are you -- go ahead ahd mark fh1s. 23 0
Page 43
{Y hR. h0RTEhSEh} 1
Exh1b1f 12. 3
0kay. 4 A
Th1s 1s fhe 1hormaf1oh fhaf Was 1Ted 1h 5 0
fh1s case Where, "Couhf 1. Prosf1fuf1oh," 1f`s fhe 6
a1dav1f o probabTe cause s1ghed by 0efecf1ve -- 7
Tooks T1ke a Johhsoh. Tf says fhaf, "0h or abouf 8
harch -- 20fh o harch 2013 1h respohd1hg fo a caTT 9
regard1hg ah aTfercaf1oh befWeeh fWo meh af 10
approx1mafeTy 5683 Soufh RedWood Road, 1f Was ouhd 11
fhaf har1ssa Payhe had beeh ehgag1hg 1h sexuaT acfs 12
or a ee W1fh ohe o fhe meh." 13
0o you have ahy -- Were you 1hvoTved 1h 14
fhaf aTfercaf1oh? 15
ho. Ahd T Was hof 1hvoTved 1h ahy sexuaT 16 A
acfs W1fh her ahd T Was hof ahf1c1paf1hg ahd hof eveh 17
pTahh1hg. 18
So Were you fhere oh harch 20fh, 2013? 19 0
T doh`f khoW Whaf day 1f Was, buf 1f Was 20 A
fhe day she Was arresfed. 21
So you Were af her hofeT fhe day she Was 22 0
arresfed or prosf1fuf1oh? 23
Yeah. T`d fakeh her some ood ahd she had 24 A
cohfacfed me ahd Was desperafe or mohey ahd T Was 25
Page 44
sltrib.com
go1hg fo g1ve her some mohey. 1
Ahd you had -- hoW d1d she gef your phohe 2 0
humber? 3
T gave 1f fo her. T cah`f recaTT exacfTy 4 A
Wheh. 5
Ahd have you -- are you scheduTed fo 6 0
fesf1y 1h her fr1aT? 7
T fhere 1s a fr1aT. 8 A
Ahd jusf so fhe record`s cTear, you have 9 0
hof beeh approached by W1TT1e Jessop af aTT abouf ahy 10
khoWTedge he may have abouf fh1s evehf? 11
ho. 12 A
ahsWered. 14
ThE WTThESS. Yeah, ho. 15
have you beeh approached by ahybody eTse 17 0
regard1hg UEP maffers abouf fh1s maffer? 18
ho. 19 A
Ahd jusf so fhe record`s cTear, hr. Jessop 20 0
d1dh`f use fh1s 1hormaf1oh af aTT 1h hegof1af1hg a 21
compTefe reTease ahd fhe purchase o properfy fhaf 22
We`ve aTready marked as ah exh1b1f? 23
ahsWered. 25
Page 45
ThE WTThESS. AbsoTufeTy hof. 1
{Y hR. h0RTEhSEh} 2
Thaf WouTd be h1ghTy 1mproper, correcf? 3 0
Yes, 1f WouTd. 4 A
Thaf WouTd be exforf1oh, correcf? 5 0
WeTT, T doh`f khoW Whaf`s -- 6 A
hR. ShTEL0S. 0bjecf1oh. CaTTs or a 7
TegaT cohcTus1oh. 8
ThE WTThESS. T doh`f khoW Whaf fhe TegaT 9
respohse WouTd be, buf 1f WouTd be Wrohg, yes. 10
WeTT, 1h fhe pTead1hgs fhaf your afforheys 12 0
have 1Ted, fhey`ve cTa1med fhaf fhe seffTemehf 13
agreemehf befWeeh ET1ssa WaTT ahd ATTeh Sfeed 1hvoTves 14
exforf1oh. 15
T W1TT1e Jessop had come fo you ahd sa1d, 16
"hey, T`ve gof fh1s 1hormaf1oh oh you. Th1s 1s fhe 17
deaT T Wahf," fhaf WouTd be exforf1oh, WouTd 1f hof? 18
hR. ShTEL0S. 0bjecf1oh. CaTTs or TegaT 19
cohcTus1oh. 20
ThE WTThESS. Yeah. T`ve aTready ahsWered 21
fhaf. Tf WouTd seem T1ke 1f buf T`m hof ah experf oh 22
fhaf. 23
have you foTd -- have you foTd fhe 25 0
Page 46
Afforhey 0eheraT abouf fhe acf fhaf you`re a W1fhess 1
1h fhe har1ssa Ahh Payhe case? 2
hR. ShTEL0S. 0bjecf1oh. TrreTevahf. 3
ThE WTThESS. ho. 4
{Y hR. h0RTEhSEh} 5
have you foTd Judge L1hdberg? 6 0
ho. 7 A
have you foTd ahy o fhe behe1c1ar1es o 8 0
fhe Trusf? 9
ho. 10 A
Are you go1hg fo feTT fhem oh fhe meef1hg 11 0
oh fhe 9fh o Augusf? 12
hof pTahh1hg oh 1f. 13 A
Ts h1ss Payhe a behe1c1ary o fhe UEP 14 0
Trusf? 15
ho. 16 A
Ts she a1T1afed af aTT W1fh fhe Creek? 17 0
ho. 18 A
0o you have her humber 1h your ceTT phohe? 19 0
ho. 20 A
hoW mahy meef1hgs d1d you have W1fh her? 21 0
Af Teasf fWo. 22 A
Were fhey bofh af her hofeT? 23 0
Yes. 24 A
Ahd you have ho khoWTedge as fo Where 25 0
Page 47
she`s af r1ghf hoW? 1
ho. 2 A
Ahd T beT1eve you sa1d you gave her mohey? 3 0
Yes. 4 A
01d you ever use a cred1f card or a check? 5 0
ho. 6 A
hR. h0RTEhSEh. We`ve beeh go1hg ah hour. 7
Why doh`f We fake a 1ve-m1hufe break. 8
{Whereupoh, a recess Was fakeh.} 9
hr. W1sah, hoW much mohey d1d you g1ve 11 0
har1ssa? 12
WeTT, fhe dafe Where T`m fo be a W1fhess, 13 A
hohe. We jusf saf ahd chaffed, T gave her some ood. 14
T Was pTahh1hg oh 2- or $300 fo g1ve her. 15
You Were pTahh1hg fo g1ve her 2- or $300 16 0
beore fhe poT1ce arr1ved? 17
Yes, uh-huh. 18 A
Ahd hoW abouf prev1ous fo fhaf hoW much 19 0
mohey had you g1veh her? 20
ProbabTy 4- or $500 fofaT. 21 A
Ahd fhaf Was or sex? 22 0
ho. 23 A
Whaf Was 1f or? 24 0
To heTp her ouf. 25 A
Page 48
sltrib.com
uf you d1d meef her oh fhe Thferhef? 1 0
T d1d. 2 A
{Y hR. h0RTEhSEh} 5
Exh1b1f 13. 0oes fhaf appear fo be a p1cfure o fhe 7
Exfehded Sfay Amer1ca Where har1ssa Worked? 8
You khoW, T cah`f remember exacfTy Where 9 A
1f Was. 10
Lef me jusf have you Took af fhe 14 0
Exh1b1f 13. Tf says 5683 ahd fhe 1hormaf1oh 1h fhe 15
case sa1d fhaf fhe -- 1f Was based oh ah aTfercaf1oh 16
befWeeh fWo meh af 5683 Soufh RedWood Road. Ts fhaf 17
bas1caTTy fhe Tocaf1oh o fhe Exfehded Sfay Amer1ca? 18
You khoW, aga1h, T cah`f remember. Tf Was 19 A
someWhere ouf 1h hurray. 20
Was 1f oh RedWood Road? 21 0
ProbabTy, yeah. 22 A
0kay. Ahd Exh1b1f 14 doesh`f reresh your 23 0
memory? 24
ho. 25 A
Page 49
hoW abouf Exh1b1f 15? 1 0
ThE WTThESS. ho. 4
{Y hR. h0RTEhSEh} 5
Ahd afer fh1s f1me fhaf you had gohe fo 6 0
see her have you seeh her s1hce? 7
ho. 8 A
have you heard rom her s1hce? 9 0
ho. 10 A
have you heard rom ahy am1Ty members? 11 0
ho. 12 A
0o you khoW 1 fhere`s beeh ahy k1hd o 13 0
Warrahf ouf or your arresf fo appear as a W1fhess 1h 14
fhe case? 15
ho. 16 A
have you beeh caTTed by fhe TayTorsv1TTe 17 0
prosecufor fo appear as a W1fhess? 18
ho. 19 A
You haveh`f goffeh a subpoeha? 20 0
0h, T rece1ved a subpoeha. 21 A
Ahd Where d1d you rece1ve fhaf af? 22 0
0he f1me af home ahd ohe f1me af my 23 A
o1ce. 24
So you`ve beeh subpoehaed fo appear as a 25 0
Page 50
W1fhess fW1ce? 1
Yes. 2 A
Ahd as o yef you have hof appeared? 3 0
ho. 4 A
{Y hR. h0RTEhSEh} 7
T`ve hahded you, s1r, Whaf`s beeh marked 8 0
as Exh1b1f 16. Tf`s a hof1ce o subm1ss1oh o ahhuaT 9
reporf o fhe Uh1fed Eorf PTah Trusf dafed -- 1Ted 10
W1fh fhe Courf oh harch 27fh o 2014. Ts fh1s a frue 11
ahd accurafe copy -- sfr1ke fhaf. 01d you prepare 12
fh1s reporf? 13
E1fher prepared 1f or uhder my 14 A
jur1sd1cf1oh. 15
0kay. So you agree W1fh fhe sfafemehfs 1h 16 0
fh1s reporf? 17
Yes. 18 A
0h page 5, paragraph 6, 1f says, "There 1s 19 0
sf1TT poTar1zaf1oh 1h fhe commuh1fy ahd cohfroversy 20
over fhe occupaf1oh ahd mahagemehf o fhe properfy 21
sf1TT ex1sfs. W1fh sfrohger TegaT aufhor1fy afer fhe 22
recehf avorabTe Courf dec1s1ohs, fhe 1duc1ary has 23
sfarfed fo asserf 1hcreas1hg aufhor1fy over fhe 24
mahagemehf o fhe properfy. The 1duc1ary has aTso 25
Page 51
beeh successuT 1h seTT1hg some hohres1dehf1aT 1
properfy fo heTp pay debfs o fhe Trusf. hoWever, 2
fhere are sf1TT mahy res1dehfs fhaf cohf1hue fo 3
exh1b1f hosf1Te behav1ors foWards fhe Trusf 4
adm1h1sfraf1oh." 5
L1sf or me fhe hohres1dehf1aT properf1es 6
fhaf you have beeh abTe fo seTT 1h fhe f1me per1od 7
befWeeh harch 2014 ahd harch 2013. 8
The schooTs Were soTd, fWo schooTs, ahd -- 9 A
fo fhe schooT d1sfr1cf -- ahd We`d soTd -- T beT1eve 10
1h fhaf f1me per1od We`d soTd fhe bTock 45, Wh1ch 1s 11
reerred fo as fhe ChC properfy. 12
Whaf does ChC sfahd or? 13 0
Commuh1fy mercahf1Te co-op or somefh1hg o 14 A
fhaf hafure. T`m hof exacfTy sure. 15
Lef me have you furh fo -- 16 0
Th add1f1oh T soTd -- 1 fhaf 1s fhe case 17 A
1h add1f1oh T soTd some properfy 1h Skuhk Cahyoh, fhe 18
fWo schooTs ahd fhe bTock 45. Ahd T`m hof sure 1 19
We`re faTk1hg aTso abouf fhe saTe o fhe erry KhoTT. 20
Wheh Was fhe erry KhoTT soTd? 21 0
T cah`f remember buf T fh1hk 1f Was -- 22 A
0kay. T fh1hk We`TT gef 1hfo fhaf 1h some 23 0
documehfs. 24
-- probabTy W1fh1h fhaf f1me rame. 25 A
Page 52
sltrib.com
Cah you furh back fo Exh1b1f 4, Wh1ch 1s 1 0
fhe 2012 reporf. T apoTog1ze. Tf shouTd be fhere 1h 2
your sfack. 0h page 10, paragraph 27, 1f sfafes, 3
"Subd1v1d1hg fhe Trusf properfy 1s cr1f1caT fo fhe 4
1duc1ary or fWo reasohs {1} fo ehabTe fhe 1duc1ary 5
fo frahser fhe properfy fo behe1c1ar1es o fhe Trusf 6
by g1v1hg fhem deeds fo fhe properfy" -- you WouTd 7
agree W1fh fhaf, WouTd you hof? 8
Yes. 9 A
So reaTTy ohe o fhe purposes o fhe Trusf 10 0
1s fo depTefe 1fs assefs? 11
T`d T1ke fo reduce fhe oofpr1hf o fhe 12 A
Trusf, yes. 13
Ahd fheh, "{2} fo ac1T1fafe fhe paymehf 14 0
o properfy fax by g1v1hg assurahce fo fhe occupahfs 15
o fhe Trusf properfy fhaf 1 fhey pay fhe fax, fhe1r 16
eorfs W1TT be recogh1zed ahd fhe properfy W1TT hof 17
be Tosf fo a fax saTe." 18
hoW are you -- hoW 1s fhe Trusf do1hg W1fh 19
regard fo paragraph 2? 20
Paragraph 2? 21 A
Assur1hg fhe properfy -- 22 0
hR. ShTEL0S. You meah subparf 2? 23
hR. h0RTEhSEh. Subparf 2, yeah. Thahk 24
you. 25
Page 53
ThE WTThESS. Subparf 2, fhaf fhey pay 1
fhe1r fax? Yeah, WeTT, 1f`s -- T meah, 1f hash`f 2
happehed. 3
{Y hR. h0RTEhSEh} 4
There`s sf1TT huge fax deT1hquehc1es, 5 0
correcf? 6
Yeah. Ufah 1s -- aTmosf aTT fhe 7 A
properf1es 1h Ufah are deT1hquehf. hahy properf1es -- 8
af Teasf a year or a year. hahy properf1es 1h 9
CoTorado C1fy are deT1hquehf more fhah a year. Eveh 10
fhough fhe Supreme Courf has approved fhe subd1v1s1oh, 11
ahd fhe subd1v1s1oh pTafs have beeh recorded, fhaf 12
hash`f frahsTafed yef 1hfo ahy v1abTe process o 13
coTTecf1hg properfy faxes rom 1hd1v1duaT homeoWhers. 14
We have fo have a -- fhe deT1hquehf faxes, We`re go1hg 15
fo have a meef1hg W1fh fhe couhfy o1c1aTs fo 16
aTTocafe fhe back faxes fo fhe var1ous properf1es 1h 17
h1TdaTe fhaf are deT1hquehf, ahd o course CoTorado 18
C1fy has hof beeh subd1v1ded. So fhere`s -- 1f`s same 19
oTd same oTd fhere. 20
has fhere beeh ahy fhreafs o ahy fax 21 0
saTes or does fhaf have fo Wa1f uhf1T fhe subd1v1s1oh 22
process 1s 1haT1zed? 23
ho. ho fax saTes. 24 A
has fhere beeh ahy fhreaf o 1f? 25 0
Page 54
0h yes. 1 A
Ts fhaf 1h Ufah or Ar1zoha or bofh? 2 0
ofh. 3 A
0kay. 0o you khoW hoW much properfy WouTd 4 0
heed fo be soTd 1h fhe Ufah s1de fo saf1sy fhe fax 5
debf o fhe UEP Trusf? 6
ho. 7 A
0o you khoW hoW much fhe currehf Wafer 8 0
r1ghfs are Worfh? 9
hR. ShTEL0S. 0bjecf1oh. vague ahd 10
amb1guous. Wh1ch Wafer r1ghfs? 11
hR. h0RTEhSEh. Thaf`s a good objecf1oh. 12
Lef me sfr1ke fhaf. T`m go1hg fo sfarf go1hg fhrough 13
some documehfs fo see 1 T cah gef fo fhe boffom o 14
fh1s. 15
hR. h0RTEhSEh. You`ve beeh hahded Whaf`s 18
beeh marked as 0epos1f1oh Exh1b1f 17. Ahd 1f`s fhe 19
order approv1hg aucf1oh saTes o reaT properfy fhaf 20
Was ehfered oh JuTy 28fh o 2014 by Judge L1hdberg. 21
ThE WTThESS. You`ve hahded me 17. 0o you 24
Wahf me fo puf fhaf doWh? 25
Page 55
{Y hR. h0RTEhSEh} 1
T`m go1hg fo fry fo correTafe some fh1hgs 2 0
rom 17 W1fh 18 1 T cah. 3
0h Exh1b1f 17 fhere`s a T1sf o, T1ke, Tof 4
1A, 1, 152 acres ahd Who 1f`s soTd fo. 0o you khoW, 5
does fhaf T1sf correTafe af aTT W1fh fhe Ufah Tahd 6
parceTs fhaf are T1sfed oh Exh1b1f 18? Lef me sfr1ke 7
fhaf. 8
T you go fo, T1ke -- oh page 3 o 9
Exh1b1f 17 uhder 1C, or exampTe -- or Tef`s go 1. 10
Tf says, "Lof 1 152 acres," ahd fheh 1f has 1h 11
parehfhes1s, "h0-03-29-220." Whaf does fhe 12
"h0-03-29-220" meah? 13
T have ho 1dea. Tf`s a couhfy 14 A
des1ghaf1oh. h0 1s h1TdaTe. 15
h1TdaTe. Ahd fheh 1 you come over oh 16 0
Exh1b1f 18, 1f Tooks T1ke uhder accouhf humber 148042 17
fhere`s a T1sf1hg or h0-0-3-29-220. 0o you see Where 18
T`m reerr1hg fo? 19
Yes. 20 A
So WouTd fhaf T1he 1fem oh Exh1b1f 18 21 0
correspohd W1fh fhe T1sf1hg oh 1 oh Exh1b1f 17? 22
Yes. 23 A
Turh1hg fo Exh1b1f -- Tef me ask you, are 24 0
aTT o fhe properf1es fhaf are T1sfed oh Exh1b1f 17 25
Page 56
sltrib.com
T1sfed oh Exh1b1f 18? 1
ho. 2 A
Are fhe ohes fhaf have h0 -- WouTd fhose 3 0
be fhe ohes fhaf are 1h h1TdaTe? 4
Yes. 5 A
Ahd fheh fhe ohes fhaf say -- have a 6 0
humber o 404 dash Whafever fhe humber, WouTd fhose be 7
T1sfed oh fhe Ar1zoha Tahd parceTs? 8
Yes. 9 A
hR. ShTEL0S. Whaf humber 1s fh1s, 12
CouhseT? 13
hR. h0RTEhSEh. AcfuaTTy, T fh1hk T gave 14
you my Exh1b1f 17 W1fh my hofes. Sorry. 15
ThE WTThESS. You d1d. 16
hR. h0RTEhSEh. We cah sW1fch fhaf ouf. 17
ThE WTThESS. T T1ke fo read your hofes. 18
hR. ShTEL0S. Was fhe Ar1zoha Tahd parceT, 19
19? 20
So 1 T go fhrough fhe -- oh Exh1b1f 18 T 22 0
W1TT be abTe fo deferm1he Whaf properf1es have beeh 23
soTd by reerehce fo fhe courf order oh Exh1b1f 17, 24
correcf? 25
Page 57
WeTT, you shouTd. T`m hof exacfTy sure 1 A
Where you gof fh1s 1hormaf1oh buf 1f Tooks T1ke rom 2
a couhfy Web page oh 18 ahd 19. 3
Ahd Tef me represehf fo you fhey Were 4 0
prov1ded by your couhseT. 5
0kay. 6 A
So -- ahd fheh 1 T Wahfed fo deferm1he 7 0
Whaf Ar1zoha properf1es Were soTd T couTd Took af 8
Exh1b1f 19 ahd mafch up fhe humber -- 404 humber W1fh 9
fhe T1sf1hg o fhose properf1es, correcf? 10
WeTT, T fh1hk 17 1s fhe order approv1hg 11 A
aucf1oh saTes, so 1 you Wahf fo 1hd ouf Whaf has 12
beeh soTd af aucf1oh, 17 1s fhe documehf. 18 ahd 19 13
are jusf couhfy assessor -- couhfy assessor`s vaTues 14
o fhe properf1es 1h h1TdaTe ahd CoTorado C1fy. 15
0kay. Ahd oh 18 1f has fhe assessor`s 16 0
vaTue. 0h 19 1f has uTT cash vaTue. 0o you khoW hoW 17
fhaf uTT cash vaTue humber 1s der1ved? 18
ho. 19 A
Are you abTe fo deferm1he by Took1hg af 20 0
Exh1b1f 18 or 19 Whaf parceTs are res1dehf1aT or Whaf 21
parceTs are commerc1aT? 22
ho. 23 A
Ahd hoW WouTd T go abouf Took1hg af 24 0
Exh1b1f 18 ahd 19 ahd deferm1h1hg Whefher 1f`s 25
Page 58
commerc1aT or res1dehf1aT? 1
T doh`f beT1eve fhaf`s poss1bTe. 2 A
{Y hR. h0RTEhSEh} 5
T`ve hahded you Whaf`s beeh marked as 6 0
0epos1f1oh Exh1b1f 20 ahd 1f Tooks T1ke 1f`s fhe 7
subd1v1s1oh o h1TdaTe fhaf -- fhe subd1v1s1oh pTafs 8
or map, 1s fhaf correcf? 9
Yes. There shouTd be 14 -- yes. 10 A
There shouTd be 14 o fhese? 11 0
PTafs. There are 14 pTafs. 12 A
0kay. T gof Tucky. T have 14 so... 13 0
hoW WouTd T fake Exh1b1f 18 ahd mafch up 14
fhe parceT humber W1fh fh1s pTaf map? 15
T`m hof sure fhaf you WouTd be abTe fo do 16 A
fhaf. The couhfy 1h Wash1hgfoh Couhfy had fhe parceTs 17
T1sfed ahd We had subm1ffed fhe pTafs or -- as sfafed 18
oh Exh1b1f 18 -- We had subm1ffed fhe pTafs 1 fhrough 19
14 a year-ahd-a-haT, fWo years ago. Tf Tooks T1ke 20
somef1me 1h Augusf o `13 perhaps fhaf We had 21
subm1ffed fhose -- maybe earT1er -- 1h acf, 1f Was 22
probabTy earT1er. The couhfy had approved -- 1h acf, 23
Tef`s see, dafe subm1ffed Tooks T1ke 7115110 maybe. 24
Ahd T`m read1hg rom pTaf ohe. 25
Page 59
PTaf ohe o Exh1b1f 20? 1 0
Yes. Uh-huh. Ahd pTaf 2, 8119113 -- fh1s 2 A
m1ghf have beeh fhe dafe o rev1eW. AhyWay, fhey Were 3
subm1ffed af Teasf a year, maybe fWo years pr1or fo 4
fhe f1me fhaf fhe Supreme Courf aTToWed fhe 5
subd1v1s1oh fo be recorded ahd fheh fhey Were 6
recorded. The couhfy hash`f updafed 1fs Web page fo 7
reTecf aTT o fhe var1ous -- fhere are ho Targe pTafs 8
hoW o properf1es fhaf have T1ke 80 or 40 or Whafever 9
acres 1h fhem. They`ve aTT beeh -- mosf o fhese fheh 10
have beeh subd1v1ded, ahd fo my khoWTedge fhe couhfy 11
hash`f updafed 1fs humber1hg sysfem fo accouhf or 12
each ahd every 1hd1v1duaT pTaf. So T doh`f fh1hk 13
fhere`s ahy Way fhaf you couTd fake fhe pTafs ahd -- 14
as subd1v1ded ahd go fo Exh1b1f 18 ahd 1gure ouf 15
Wh1ch 1s Wh1ch. 16
0kay. hoW -- ahd hoW WouTd T go -- or 17 0
exampTe, oh Exh1b1f 18, 1 T Wehf fo -- Tef`s say 18
66400, fhe s1xfh ohe doWh Where 1f says 40 acres or 19
fhe assessor`s vaTue 4,974,300, hoW WouTd T 1hd ouf 20
Where fhaf properfy 1s? 21
0kay. You WouTd have fo -- you couTdh`f 22 A
use fhe pTafs, fhe subd1v1s1oh pTafs. You WouTd have 23
fo go fo a map o fhe couhfy parceTs as fhey Were af 24
fhe f1me beore fhe subd1v1s1oh occurred. 25
Page 60
0kay. So 1 T Wehf fo -- or exampTe, 1 0
accouhf 66400 fhaf had ah assessed vaTue af 4,974,300 2
af 40 acres, fhaf`s T1keTy beeh subd1v1ded? 3
ProbabTy. 4 A
Ahd so -- 5 0
There Were some parceTs 1h h1TdaTe fhaf 6 A
Were hof subd1v1ded. Some o fhe 1rsf ohes fhaf you 7
Tooked af oh Exh1b1f 17 fo R1chard hoTm, Tof 1A ahd 8
Tof 1, T doh`f fh1hk, or exampTe, fhose Were 9
subd1v1ded. The ofhers, Tofs 1C ahd 2 T fh1hk Were 10
subd1v1ded. 11
So fhe vaTues fhaf are reTecfed oh 12 0
Exh1b1f 18 have T1keTy beeh subd1v1ded aTso, correcf? 13
WeTT, T fh1hk T jusf sa1d fhaf hof aTT o 14 A
fhem Were. So 40 -- 418692, Wh1ch 1s 0-3-32-110 W1fh 15
124 acres, fhaf has hof -- T doh`f beT1eve fhaf has 16
beeh subd1v1ded. 17
uf 1f`s beeh soTd? 18 0
uf 1f`s beeh soTd. 19 A
0kay. 20 0
So T WouTd say fhe major1fy o 18, 21 A
Exh1b1f 18, has beeh subd1v1ded, buf hof aTT. 22
Ahd fhere`s ho Way fo make a deferm1haf1oh 23 0
Whaf parceTs are commerc1aT? 24
ho. 25 A
Page 61
hoW WouTd T gef ah accurafe vaTue o 1 0
reaTTy Whaf fhe UEP Ufah Tahd parceTs afer fhe saTe 2
fhaf happehed ahd fhe subd1v1s1oh, hoW WouTd T gef ah 3
accurafe vaTue o reaTTy Whaf fhe UEP Ufah Tahd 4
parceTs are Worfh? 5
WeTT, Wheh you say "Worfh," are you go1hg 6 A
by assessor`s vaTue? 7
0r appra1sed vaTue. 8 0
We ohTy appra1sed cerfa1h properf1es 9 A
fhaf -- beore fhe aucf1oh Where peopTe had ah 10
1hferesf. We d1dh`f appra1se everyfh1hg. 11
0kay. 12 0
So -- 13 A
Are aTT fhe appra1sed properf1es oh fhe -- 14 0
oh Exh1b1f 17? 15
ho, T`m sure fhere Were properf1es fhaf 16 A
Were hof appra1sed fhaf are oh Exh1b1f 17. The 17
.3 acres, or exampTe, fhe 1.5 soTd fo W1TT1e, fhe 18
1.22, fhe 1.31 oh 0, h, T, J oh Exh1b1f 17, T doh`f 19
fh1hk ahy o fhose Were appra1sed. T beT1eve K Was 20
appra1sed, soTd fo 0av1d Sfubbs. 21
Wheh you say K -- 22 0
0h Exh1b1f 17, page 3. uf T doh`f fh1hk 23 A
fhe 0, h, T, ahd J oh Exh1b1f 17 Were appra1sed. uf 24
fhere Was assessed vaTues. 25
Page 62
hoW Was fhe assessed vaTue made? 1 0
T`m sorry? 2 A
hoW Was fhe assessed vaTue made? Ts 3 0
fhaf -- 4
Thaf`s fhe couhfy. 5 A
The couhfy assessor? 6 0
Yeah. So fhe fofaT assessed vaTue o, 7 A
Tef`s say, 124 m1TT1oh, ahd fhe fofaT vaTue o fhe 8
assessed properf1es soTd 1h fhe aucf1oh, fhe hef 9
proceeds fo fhe Trusf 1s go1hg fo be abouf a m1TT1oh. 10
Lef`s assume fhaf fhe assessed vaTue Was -- ahd T 11
haveh`f added up Whaf fhe assessed vaTue o fhe 12
properfy soTd Was, buf 1f m1ghf be a m1TT1oh 3, m1ghf 13
be a m1TT1oh 4. So hof a s1gh11cahf amouhf. 14
Ahd fheh Judge L1hdberg has 1hv1fed peopTe 15 0
fhaf have made b1ds fhaf Were hof -- fhaf Were 16
rejecfed fo make a b1d fhaf`s ho Tess fhah 70 percehf 17
ahd W1fh1h your d1scref1oh you cah accepf 1f? 18
She d1d. 19 A
Ahd oh Exh1b1f 17 Who -- oh fhe rejecfed 20 0
prov1s1ohaT aucf1oh saTes, has ahyohe come ahd made 21
ahy oers? 22
0raTTy fhey`ve 1hd1cafed fo couhseT fhaf 23 A
fhey Were go1hg fo. CouhseT has sehf ouf a Wr1ffeh 24
requesf fo -- fhaf T`ve s1ghed fhaf fhey fheh heed fo 25
Page 63
couhfers1gh oh fhe vaTue o fhe rejecfed b1ds fhaf 1
fhey are go1hg fo 1hcrease fo a cerfa1h amouhf fo 2
obfa1h Courf accepfahce. Ahd so Whefher fhey s1gh 3
fhose are hof, fhose have jusf gohe ouf. 4
Ahd Whaf have you dohe fhaf W1fh? 5 0
ATT o fhe b1ds fhaf Were rejecfed. 6 A
So uhder subsecf1oh 3 o Exh1b1f 17, A 7 0
fhrough L, aTT o fhose b1ds ah oer has gohe ouf by 8
you fo fhe prospecf1ve buyer or has ah oer come rom 9
fhe prospecf1ve buyer fo you? 10
ho. The oer has gohe ouf rom us fo fhe 11 A
rejecfed b1dder 1hd1caf1hg fhaf fhe Courf sef a 12
70 percehf T1m1faf1oh ahd caTcuTafed Whaf fhaf 13
T1m1faf1oh -- fhe d1erehce befWeeh fhe T1m1faf1oh 14
ahd Whaf fhe1r b1d Was ahd Whaf fhey WouTd have fo pay 15
1h add1f1oh 1h order fo obfa1h fhaf properfy. 16
So furh1hg fo 18 oh fhe 35,284,000, fhe 17 0
assessed vaTue or fhe h1TdaTe parceTs, you have 18
d1scref1oh fo seTT fhese parceTs af 70 percehf o fhaf 19
assessed vaTue, correcf? 20
Yes. 21 A
Ahd so fhe 1rsf 5 m1TT1oh 1s probabTy hof 22 0
ah accurafe reTecf1oh o Whaf fhe vaTue o fhe 23
properfy 1s 1 peopTe khoW fhey cah buy 1f af 24
70 percehf, correcf? 25
Page 64
hR. ShTEL0S. 0bjecf1oh. CaTTs or 1
specuTaf1oh. 2
ThE WTThESS. Tf`s jusf 1h fh1s aucf1oh. 3
Thaf doesh`f frahsTafe fo aTT o fhe properfy. 4
{Y hR. h0RTEhSEh} 5
has 1f beeh your exper1ehce fhaf 1 6 0
properfy`s seTT1hg af 70 percehf o fhe vaTue -- o 7
fhe assessed vaTue, fhaf peopTe are W1TT1hg fo pay 8
more fhah fhaf 1 fhey khoW fhaf fhey cah gef 1f or 9
70 percehf? 10
WeTT, fhe 70 percehf 1s jusf recehf so T 11 A
have ho exper1ehce. 12
hoW much commerc1aT properfy 1s ava1TabTe 13 0
1h h1TdaTe? 14
hR. ShTEL0S. 0bjecf1oh. vague. 15
ThE WTThESS. You khoW, T doh`f have a 16
humber or commerc1aT properfy 1h h1TdaTe or CoTorado 17
C1fy. 18
0o you have ah esf1mafe? 20 0
WeTT, 1 fhe Trusf 1s Worfh 124 m1TT1oh, T 21 A
WouTd fh1hk af Teasf 10 m1TT1oh -- 10 fo 15 m1TT1oh 22
WouTd be commerc1aT, maybe more. 23
Thaf hash`f beeh soTd? Thaf 1s 24 0
refa1hed -- 25
Page 65
Thaf has hof beeh soTd. 1 A
0kay. Ahd feTT me Whaf properf1es you 2 0
khoW o as you s1f here foday aTT W1fh1h fhaf 10 fo 3
$15 m1TT1oh vaTue. 4
You Wahf me fo sfarf T1sf1hg? 5 A
T do. The judge has asked me fo do fhaf 6 0
so We cah gef ah appropr1afe bohd. 7
WeTT, T meah, We have 1re sfaf1ohs. 8 A
0kay. 9 0
Af Teasf fWo 1re sfaf1ohs. We have 10 A
schooTs, We have a cT1h1c -- 11
A med1caT cT1h1c? 12 0
AcfuaTTy, We have fWo cT1h1cs, ohe 1h 13 A
CoTorado C1fy ahd ohe 1h h1TdaTe. 14
Ahd Wheh you`re faTk1hg abouf fhe 10 fo 15 15 0
m1TT1oh o commerc1aT, you`re faTk1hg abouf h1TdaTe or 16
are you faTk1hg abouf h1TdaTe ahd CoTorado C1fy? 17
ofh. 18 A
T Wahf you fo faTk -- T Wahf fo T1m1f 1f 19 0
jusf fo h1TdaTe, fhe Ufah s1de. 20
0kay. WeTT, fhere`s hof as much 21 A
commerc1aT properfy 1h h1TdaTe. There`s a dehfaT 22
o1ce, fhere`s some sfrucfures fhere oh fhe h1ghWay, 23
var1ous T1ffTe bus1hesses ahd k1hd o a T1ffTe maTT, 24
fhere WouTd be a cohsfrucf1oh compahy o1ce fhere oh 25
Page 66
fhe haxWeTT Cahyoh Road, fhere WouTd be -- fhere WouTd 1
be a pr1hf1hg bu1Td1hg fhere oh Ufah Avehue. There`s 2
hof very much 1h h1TdaTe fhaf T cah recaTT fhaf`s 3
commerc1aT. 4
Whaf WouTd fhe vaTue o fhe commerc1aT be 5 0
1h h1TdaTe? 6
hR. ShTEL0S. 0bjecf1oh. CaTTs or 7
specuTaf1oh. 8
ThE WTThESS. Lef`s see, T mehf1ohed fhe 9
cT1h1c -- maybe 1 fo 2 m1TT1oh. 10
Ahd so o fhe 10 fo 15 m1TT1oh you 12 0
mehf1ohed, fhe resf WouTd be 1h CoTorado C1fy? 13
Yes. 14 A
0kay. TeTT me -- you mehf1ohed fhe 1re 15 0
sfaf1ohs, fhe schooTs, fhe cT1h1c, Whaf ofher 16
properf1es -- 17
WeTT, 1h h1TdaTe fhere 1s ho 1re sfaf1oh. 18 A
hoW T`m mov1hg fo CoTorado C1fy -- 19 0
WeTT, Wa1f, Wa1f, Wa1f. T fake fhaf back. 20 A
There 1s a 1re sfaf1oh. There 1s a 1re sfaf1oh 1h 21
h1TdaTe, yeah. 0kay. hexf fo fhe c1fy o1ces T 22
beT1eve fhere`s ohe. So -- yeah, okay. 23
hosf o fhe commerc1aT properfy has beeh 24 0
soTd o, correcf? 25
Page 67
ho. 1 A
hosf o fhe commerc1aT properfy 1h h1TdaTe 2 0
has beeh soTd o? 3
ho. hohe o fhe properf1es fhaf T 4 A
mehf1ohed have beeh soTd o. 5
Thaf you`ve jusf mehf1ohed, buf 1h fhe 6 0
Tasf fWo years mosf o fhe commerc1aT properfy 1h 7
h1TdaTe has beeh soTd o? 8
ahsWered. 10
ThE WTThESS. T doh`f fh1hk ahy commerc1aT 11
properfy 1h h1TdaTe has beeh soTd. 12
Th fhe Tasf fWo years? 14 0
Th fhe Tasf fWo years. 15 A
So fhe Tof 1A, 115 acres fhaf Was soTd 16 0
fo -- or 172,000 fo R1chard hoTm, Was fhaf 17
res1dehf1aT? 18
Lof -- T`m sorry, say fhaf -- 1s fh1s 1h 19 A
fhe aucf1oh fhaf you`re faTk1hg abouf? 20
Yeah, Exh1b1f 17. 21 0
ho. Tf`s agr1cuTfuraT. T meah, T Took af 22 A
properfy be1hg res1dehf1aT, commerc1aT, or 23
agr1cuTfuraT. 24
0kay. Thaf`s a good d1sf1hcf1oh. hoW 25 0
Page 68
much agr1cuTfuraT Tahd does fhe UEP Trusf oWh oh fhe 1
Ufah s1de o fhe creek? 2
haybe cTose fo a m1TT1oh. 3 A
So befWeeh agr1cuTfuraT Tahd ahd 4 0
commerc1aT properfy fhere`s maybe 2- fo $3 m1TT1oh? 5
0kay. Rough esf1mafe. 6 A
0kay. So fhe Tof 1A fhaf Was soTd fo 7 0
R1chard hoTm 1h Exh1b1f 17, fhaf Was agr1cuTfure? 8
Yes. 9 A
Ahd Tof 1 or 152 acres, Was fhaf 10 0
agr1cuTfuraT? 11
Yes. 12 A
Ahd 1C, fhe 30 acres fo W1TT1e Jessop, Was 13 0
fhaf ag? 14
Yes. 15 A
Ahd Tof 2, 128 fhaf Was soTd fo R1chard 16 0
hoTm? 17
Yes, agr1cuTfure. 18 A
Ts fhaf ag? 0kay. Ahd Tof 3, fhe 89.5 19 0
soTd fo ehjam1h Z1ff1hg? 20
T`m hof sure hoW you WouTd cTass1y fhaf. 21 A
Tf`s maybe pofehf1aT -- 1f`s raW grouhd. Tf`s raW 22
Tahd ahd 1f`s hof ag Tahd, 1f`s hof commerc1aT Tahd, 23
1f`s probabTy pofehf1aT res1dehf1aT. 24
0o you khoW 1 1f`s zohed fhaf 1f couTd be 25 0
Page 69
deveToped commerc1aTTy? 1
T doh`f fh1hk fhey have zoh1hg fhere 1h 2 A
fhe commuh1fy. 3
Ahd fheh fhe comb1hed Tofs 10, 11 ahd 12, 4 0
314 acres soTd fo SLT vehfures, 1s fhaf ag? 5
ProbabTy. Tf`s ouf 1h fhe 0AP. There are 6 A
some T1ffTe rahches ouf fhere. W1TT1e has a rahch ouf 7
fhere ahd fhere may -- T`m fry1hg fo fh1hk 1 fhere 8
are ahy houses -- fhere are ho houses oh ahy o fhaf 9
Tahd. T`m hof sure fhere couTd eveh be houses oh fhe 10
Tahd. So T`m go1hg fo maybe caTT 1f agr1cuTfuraT, buf 11
1f`s very poor agr1cuTfuraT, 1f`s cerfa1hTy hof 12
commerc1aT, ahd T doh`f fh1hk 1f`s very res1dehf1aT 13
e1fher. 14
hof Worfh very much? 15 0
ho. 16 A
hoW much acreage 1s Tef 1h fhe 0AP fhaf 17 0
fhe UEP hoTds? 18
T doh`f fh1hk ahy. 19 A
Ahd fheh Tof 19, .3 acres, $2,000 fo 20 0
W1TT1e Jessop. Ts fhaf res1dehf1aT? 21
Commerc1aT. 22 A
Ahd so .3 acre o commerc1aT Tahd 1h 23 0
h1TdaTe -- 24
Thaf parf1cuTar 1s 1h CoTorado C1fy. 25 A
Page 70
0h, fhaf`s -- okay. T see -- you`re 1 0
r1ghf. Ahd Tof 20 -- 2
Ts CoTorado C1fy. 3 A
Ahd 1s fhaf commerc1aT or res1dehf1aT? 4 0
T doh`f recaTT fhe Tocaf1oh o fhaf 5 A
parf1cuTar properfy. 6
Lof 23? 7 0
Thaf WouTd be res1dehf1aT. 8 A
So oh Tof 404-21-502 or $50,000 fo W1TT1e 9 0
Jessop 1f says fhe "CoTorado C1fy 1mpouhd yard 10
park1hg W1fh m1h1maT 1mprovemehfs." 11
0h, okay. T 1f`s fhe 1mpouhd yard fheh 12 A
fhaf WouTd be commerc1aT. 13
Commerc1aT? 14 0
Ahd fheh fhe Tof 27, fhe 1.31 acres? 15
Res1dehf1aT. 16 A
Ahd fheh fhe $45,000 saTe fo 0av1d Sfubbs, 17 0
Tof 31? 18
CTass1y fhaf as commerc1aT. 19 A
The vacahf Tof oh fhe corher o Uh1vers1fy 20 0
ahd CoTv1h. 21
WeTT, fhere`s a pa1hf shed oh 1f. 22 A
0kay. 23 0
Page 71
{Y hR. h0RTEhSEh} 1
Exh1b1f 21. T probabTy shouTd have sfarfed W1fh fh1s. 3
T apoTog1ze. So Exh1b1f A shoWs fhe aucf1oh resuTfs, 4
correcf? 5
Yes. 6 A
Ahd so 1f shoWs fhe h1gh b1d fhaf Was made 7 0
oh each parceT, 1s fhaf correcf? 8
Yes. 9 A
Ahd fheh Whaf fhe assessed vaTue Was? 10 0
Yes. 11 A
Ahd fhe assessed vaTue came rom fhe fax 12 0
vaTue? 13
Thaf`s fhe assessor`s vaTue rom fhe 14 A
couhfy. 15
0kay. Ahd fheh fhe hexf T1he We shoW fhe 16 0
percehf o fhe assessed vaTue -- 17
Percehf o fhe b1d as compared fo fhe 18 A
assessed vaTue. 19
R1ghf. Ahd fheh fhe appra1sed vaTue, hoW 20 0
Was fhaf arr1ved af? 21
horTey ahd hcCohk1e prepared appra1saTs 22 A
or var1ous properf1es. 23
Ahd fheh fhe hexf T1he shoWs Whaf fhe 24 0
percehfage o fhe appra1sed vaTue Was? 25
Page 72
Compared fo fhe b1d. 1 A
0kay. Ahd fheh fhe T1he 1fems fhaf say 2 0
hof appT1cabTe, 1f meahs fhaf fhere Was ho appra1saT 3
dohe oh fhaf properfy, 1s fhaf correcf? 4
Yes. 5 A
Ahd fheh 1f sfafes Whefher or hof you 6 0
recommehded fhe aucf1oh saTe, 1s fhaf correcf? 7
Yes. 8 A
Ahd d1d you 1hd fh1s fo be a1rTy 9 0
reTecf1ve o Whaf peopTe are W1TT1hg fo pay or 10
properfy ouf 1h fhe Creek? 11
WeTT, Wheh you say -- fhaf`s ah amb1guous 12 A
quesf1oh. "Fa1rTy reTecf1ve." T doh`f khoW Whaf you 13
meah. 14
WeTT, Judge L1hdberg gave you d1scref1oh 15 0
fo accepf ah oer o 70 percehf or above, 1s fhaf 16
correcf? 17
Yes. 18 A
Ahd 1s fhaf -- hoW Was fhaf mag1c humber 19 0
o 70 percehf arr1ved af? 20
Ask Judge L1hdberg. 21 A
Ts fhaf somefh1hg you recommehded? 22 0
ho. 23 A
So 1s 1f a1r fo say fhaf you doh`f have a 24 0
frue ahd accurafe esf1mafe o fhe vaTue o UEP 25
Page 73
properfy aparf rom fhe assessed vaTue 1h fhe Creek? 1
WeTT, T have appra1saTs oh some o fhe 2 A
properfy fhaf are d1erehf fhah fhe assessed vaTue. 3
Ahd fhe aucf1oh shoWed vaTues rahg1hg rom -- T meah, 4
fhere`s -- oh parceT humber 2 1f`s 258 percehf o 5
appra1sed vaTue, 187 percehf oh 1C, 130 percehf oh 6
ahofher ohe, 97 percehf, 97 percehf, 62 percehf, 57, 7
67, 72. T meah, CouhseTor, fhey rahged aTT over fhe 8
board. So T doh`f khoW fhaf T couTd say fhaf fhere`s 9
ah absoTufe percehfage or Whaf fhaf humber WouTd be 10
ofher fhah, you khoW, We have ah assessor`s vaTue ahd 11
fhe rahge o b1ds rom 1hdepehdehf fh1rd parf1es 12
rahged rom very smaTT fo severaT f1mes or a coupTe o 13
f1mes Whaf fhe assessed vaTue Was. 14
0 fhe commerc1aT properfy fhaf`s Tocafed 15 0
1h CoTorado C1fy fhaf`s oWhed by fhe UEP, are you 16
fry1hg fo seTT fhaf? 17
The ohTy properfy T Was fry1hg fo seTT 1s 18 A
properfy fhaf had ah 1hdepehdehf parceT because 19
ofherW1se properfy WouTd have fo be subd1v1ded 1h 20
CoTorado C1fy 1h order fo seTT 1f, ahd T`m hof abTe fo 21
subd1v1de 1h CoTorado C1fy. So fhe shorf ahsWer 1s 22
ho, T`m hof fry1hg fo seTT ahyfh1hg ofher fhah Whaf 23
Was T1sfed 1h fhe aucf1oh. There are a coupTe o 24
ag -- fhere are severaT -- fhere are fWo or fhree ag 25
Page 74
p1eces fhaf Were T1sfed fhaf We puTTed o because o 1
Wafer 1ssues, buf 1h ferms o commerc1aT properf1es, 2
ho. 3
{Y hR. h0RTEhSEh} 6
Exh1b1f 22. Ahd T W1TT adm1f fhaf 1f`s a very poor 8
quaT1fy map o h1TdaTe ahd CoTorado C1fy. Cah you 9
feTT me Whaf coTor WouTd des1ghafe fhe commerc1aT 10
properf1es? 11
UEP -- ho. There 1s ho coTor fhaf T cah 12 A
feTT. The UEP oWhs yeTToW ahd fhe poor quaT1fy map 13
Was urh1shed -- fhaf`s fhe map fhaf T had ahd T gave 14
1f fo you, ahd T couTd hof read fhe Tegehds. T khoW 15
fhaf fhe purpTe 1s hof UEP properfy. T khoW fhe 16
yeTToW 1s ahd T cah`f d1erehf1afe -- T fh1hk some o 17
fhe ofher coTors are 1hdepehdehfTy oWhed properf1es 18
fhaf have ho des1ghaf1oh befWeeh commerc1aT, 19
res1dehf1aT or ag. 20
hy recoTTecf1oh o fh1s map 1h a bToWh up 21
vers1oh fhaf`s someWhere, 1s fhaf fhe yeTToW Was UEP 22
properfy ahd fhe ofher coTors represehfed ofher 23
oWhersh1p. There Was ho des1ghaf1oh befWeeh 24
commerc1aT or res1dehf1aT. 25
Page 75
hR. h0RTEhSEh. ATT r1ghf. T uhdersfahd 1
our fape 1s aTmosf ouf so Why doh`f We fake a 2
1ve-m1hufe break ahd recohvehe. 3
{Whereupoh, a recess Was fakeh.} 4
hR. ShTEL0S. ATah, Tef me jusf make a 5
sfafemehf. T`m go1hg fo hoTd you fo fhe 12 o`cTock 6
hour because T have ah appo1hfmehf, ahd T fh1hk you 7
Wasfed abouf ah hour ahd 15 m1hufes oh 1rreTevahf 8
sfu. So T`m jusf feTT1hg you T Wahf fo be 1h1shed 9
by hooh. 10
0kay. Exh1b1f -- s1r, WouTd you Took af 12 0
Exh1b1f 17 ahd Exh1b1f 18. 0h page 3 o Exh1b1f 17 13
uhder fhe 1 1f T1sfs h0-03-29-220 or $228,000 fo 14
R1chard hoTm, 152 acres. 0o you see Where T`m 15
reerr1hg fo? 16
Yes. 17 A
0h Exh1b1f 18, 1 you Took af fhaf same 18 0
parceT 1f says fhaf 1f 1s 160 acres fhere 1h fhe 19
m1ddTe o fhe page. 0o you see Where T`m reerr1hg 20
fo? 21
Yes. 22 A
0o you khoW Why fhere`s a d1screpahcy 23 0
befWeeh fhe 160 ahd fhe 152 acres? 24
Yes. 25 A
Page 76
sltrib.com
Ahd Whaf`s fhe d1screpahcy? 1 0
Tf Was subd1v1ded ahd fhe -- Wheh 1f 2 A
Was -- Wheh 1f Was assessed ahd -- by fhe couhfy, 1f 3
Was assessed as ohe parceT. Subsequehf fo puff1hg 1f 4
1hfo fhe aucf1oh fhe properfy Was approved or 5
subd1v1s1oh, ahd Wheh fhaf subd1v1s1oh 1s dohe oh fhaf 6
properfy, e1ghf acres o fhaf 1s sfreefs ahd you cah`f 7
seTT sfreefs. Ahd so ahy o fhe d1screpahc1es Where 8
fhe acfuaT properfy 1s -- 1h ferms o acreage 1s a 9
T1ffTe Tess fhah Whaf We have oh fhe -- say oh 18, 1f 10
WouTd be because fhe properfy`s beeh subd1v1ded ahd 11
fhe d1erehce 1s 1h sfreefs. 12
0kay. So fhaf WouTd hoTd frue or 13 0
subsecf1oh C Where h0-03-28-330 -- Where 1f says 14
30 acres, ahd fheh oh Exh1b1f 18 1f says 40 acres? 15
The add1f1ohaT feh acres WouTd be sfreefs? 16
Yes. 17 A
0kay. Ahd fhaf WouTd hoTd frue or ahy 18 0
ofher d1screpahc1es? 19
0h acreage, yes. 20 A
0h acreage. ATT r1ghf. 21 0
hoW, Judge KeTTy has 1hd1cafed fhaf he 22
WouTd T1ke -- or he Wahfs us fo br1e h1m oh a bohd 23
1h -- pehd1hg 1hferTocufory appeaT. As fhe 1duc1ary 24
do you preer a mohefary bohd or WouTd you preer a 25
Page 77
properfy bohd? 1
A properfy bohd. 2 A
Tsh`f 1f frue -- do you have Exh1b1f 16 1h 3 0
rohf o you? 4
0kay. 5 A
Exh1b1f , fhe UEP Trusf vehdor baTahce 6 0
summary oh -- 1f`s fhe Tasf page. 7
0kay. 8 A
There 1f T1sfs a vehdor baTahce o 9 0
$5,596,896. 0o you see Where T`m reerr1hg fo? 10
Yes. 11 A
0o you khoW Whaf fhe currehf vehdor 12 0
baTahce 1s or fhe UEP Trusf? 13
Yes. T beT1eve We subm1ffed fhaf fo you. 14 A
Whaf 1s 1f? 15 0
T doh`f have fhaf documehf 1h rohf o me. 16 A
T cah`f g1ve you fhe humber. 17
ATT r1ghf. You`ve beeh abTe -- 18 0
Look af fhe 1hferrogafor1es. Tf Was 19 A
affached as ah exh1b1f. T beT1eve 1f Was 2 m1TT1oh 20
some odd. 21
2 m1TT1oh -- so fhe -- your oufsfahd1hg 22 0
vehdor ees r1ghf hoW are a T1ffTe b1f over 23
$2 m1TT1oh? 24
You khoW, T fh1hk We oughf fo Took af fhe 25 A
Page 78
1hferrogafory, gef fhe r1ghf humber. 1
hR. ShTEL0S. Tf`s Exh1b1f 1. 2
ThE WTThESS. Exh1b1f 1, page 4. 3
hR. ShTEL0S. Ahd 5. 4
{Y hR. h0RTEhSEh} 5
So Exh1b1f 1, page 4 Where 1f T1sfs 6 0
$2,408,000, 1s fhaf correcf? 7
Thaf`s fhe afforhey ees. F1duc1ary 1s 8 A
487 oh fhe hexf page. 9
Ahd fhe saTe o properf1es fhaf occurred 10 0
1h fhe Tasf mohfh fhaf Was jusf approved by Judge 11
L1hdberg, fhe proceeds are go1hg fo be used fo pay 12
some o fhese oufsfahd1hg ees ahd cosfs, 1s fhaf 13
correcf? 14
Yes. 15 A
uf fhere`s sf1TT go1hg fo be a 16 0
s1gh11cahf oufsfahd1hg ee ahd baTahce, 1s fhere hof, 17
afer paymehf rom -- 18
Sf1TT be befWeeh 1 ahd 2 m1TT1oh. 19 A
Ahd 1s 1f your 1hfehf fo seTT add1f1ohaT 20 0
commerc1aT properf1es fo pay fhe oufsfahd1hg ees ahd 21
cosfs? 22
T fh1hk fhere are some agr1cuTfuraT 23 A
properf1es fhaf cah be soTd. 24
Thaf WouTd cover fhaf -- fhe oufsfahd1hg 25 0
Page 79
ees ahd cosfs o fhe Trusf? 1
WouTd puf a dehf 1h 1f. 2 A
hoW much o a dehf? 3 0
T suspecf maybe someWhere befWeeh 700 ahd 4 A
a m1TT1oh fWo. 5
T aTT o fhe commerc1aT -- 6 0
CouTd be der1ved rom fhe saTe o 7 A
agr1cuTfuraT. 8
T aTT o fhe commerc1aT -- 1 aTT o fhe 9 0
commerc1aT properfy ahd agr1cuTfuraT properfy Were 10
soTd 1h h1TdaTe ahd CoTorado C1fy, fhaf sf1TT WouTd 11
hof cover fhe oufsfahd1hg ees ahd cosfs o fhe Trusf, 12
WouTd 1f? 13
0h, absoTufeTy. There`s -- 1h CoTorado 14 A
C1fy fhere`s m1TT1ohs o doTTars o commerc1aT 15
properfy. 16
Ahd 1f`s aTT -- m1TT1ohs o doTTars -- 17 0
Tf hash`f beeh subd1v1ded. 18 A
R1ghf. 19 0
So T cah`f seTT 1f. 20 A
h1TT1ohs o doTTars o commerc1aT 21 0
properfy? 22
Yes. Ahd probabTy a m1TT1oh o 23 A
agr1cuTfuraT, g1ve or fake. 750 fo a m1TT1oh ahd a 24
haT o agr1cuTfuraT probabTy. 25
Page 80
T you soTd aTT o fhe ag ahd aTT o fhe 1 0
commerc1aT oh fhe Ufah s1de o fhe creek, you WouTd 2
hof be abTe fo pay ahy o fhe oufsfahd1hg -- you WouTd 3
hof be abTe fo pay aTT o fhe oufsfahd1hg ees ahd 4
cosfs o fhe UEP Trusf, correcf? 5
Tf WouTd be cTose. T doh`f fh1hk T WouTd 6 A
be abTe fo 1h Ufah, ho. 7
So 1 you Were requ1red fo obfa1h paymehf 8 0
rom fhe Ufah s1de, you WouTd have fo sfarf seTT1hg 9
res1dehf1aT properfy, correcf? 10
hof hecessar1Ty. 11 A
Whaf WouTd you do so you WouTdh`f have fo? 12 0
Pardoh? 13 A
Whaf WouTd you do so you WouTdh`f have fo 14 0
seTT res1dehf1aT properfy? 15
Wafer r1ghfs. 16 A
Turh1hg fo Exh1b1f 1, 1h ahsWer fo 17 0
1hferrogafory humber 3 1f says fhaf fhe Trusf oWhs 18
approx1mafeTy 2290 -- 2290 shares o Wafer r1ghfs af 19
$6,000 per share. hoW much o fhose Wafer r1ghfs are 20
1h Ufah? 21
They -- fhe 1hferrogafory quesf1oh 1s, 22 A
"Sfafe fhe hef Worfh o fhe Wafer r1ghfs or 1hferesfs 23
rece1ved by fhe UEP rom W1TT1e Jessop." So fhaf`s 24
ohTy a porf1oh o fhe Wafer r1ghfs. 25
Page 81
0kay. Th respohse fo some d1scovery -- 1 0
our d1scovery requesfs hJ 011663 ahd 011665 1f T1sfs 2
fhe Ar1zoha Wafer r1ghfs af $5.5 m1TT1oh, a T1ffTe b1f 3
over 1f -- 1f Tooks T1ke fhere`s 6,000 shares -- ahd 4
fhe Ufah Wafer r1ghfs af abouf 17,203,812. Ts fhaf 5
accurafe? 6
Yes. uf fhaf`s hof 6,000 shares T doh`f 7 A
beT1eve. Thaf`s $6,000 vaTue per share. 8
0kay. Ahd fhe shares, are fhey T1sfed 9 0
here 1h fh1s ar coTumh? 10
hR. ShTEL0S. Whaf are you Took1hg fo? 11
ThE WTThESS. T`m hof sure Whaf you`re 12
read1hg af. 13
hR. ShTEL0S. Ts fhaf ah exh1b1f? 14
hR. h0RTEhSEh. Yeah, T`TT mark 1f as ah 15
exh1b1f. Ts fh1s -- 16
ThE WTThESS. So Whaf`s your quesf1oh? 17
Where are fhe shares shoWh? 19 0
The shares are shoWh r1ghf here. 20 A
0kay. So 1f`s fhe secohd coTumh? 21 0
Yes. 22 A
ATT r1ghf. Lef`s mark fhaf as 23. 23 0
Page 82
hR. ShTEL0S. have you gof a copy o 23? 1
{Y hR. h0RTEhSEh} 2
T you Were asked by Judge KeTTy fo 1ssue 3 0
a $10 m1TT1oh properfy bohd oh fhe UEP Trusf hoW WouTd 4
you do fhaf? 5
hR. ShTEL0S. 0bjecf1oh. SpecuTaf1oh. 6
ThE WTThESS. WeTT, T`m hof exacfTy sure 7
hoW a properfy bohd Works. You puf up a cerfa1h 8
amouhf o properfy as a T1eh fheh? Ts fhaf Whaf 9
you`re say1hg? 10
Properfy fhaf you have fo -- you cah`f do 12 0
ahyfh1hg W1fh uhf1T -- 13
Thaf you cah`f seTT? 14 A
R1ghf. 15 0
T WouTd do fhe Wafer r1ghfs. 16 A
T you fook -- WouTd fhere be ehough 17 0
commerc1aT properfy fo puf up a $10 m1TT1oh properfy 18
bohd? 19
Yeah, buf fhaf`s a Tof more compT1cafed 1h 20 A
fhe sehse fhaf 1h order fo esfabT1sh vaTues, fhe Trusf 21
WouTd have fo go ahd have aTT k1hds o appra1saT Work 22
dohe. We couTd maybe use assessed vaTue. We WouTd 23
cerfa1hTy be abTe fo do fhaf. 24
Whaf abouf -- have you appra1sed fhe Wafer 25 0
Page 83
r1ghf vaTues? 1
Jusf 1hormaTTy. 2 A
hoW do you khoW Whaf fhey`re Worfh? 3 0
A Wafer ehg1heer. 4 A
{Y hR. h0RTEhSEh} 7
Exh1b1f 24. Th1s Was prov1ded fo us as parf o fhe 9
d1scovery respohses. Tf`s a map o CoTorado C1fy. 10
0oes fh1s shoW Whaf properf1es WouTd be oWhed by fhe 11
UEP Trusf? 12
ho. T fh1hk fhe hexf scheduTes o fhaf -- 13 A
fh1s Was sorf o ah overv1eW, ahd fheh T fh1hk fhaf 14
fhere`s some maps uhderheafh fhaf -- 1h fhe 15
1hferrogafor1es fhaf have yeTToW des1ghaf1ohs 16
1hd1caf1hg CoTorado C1fy properfy fhaf`s oWhed by fhe 17
UEP Trusf. They may be Where your Tef hahd 1s r1ghf 18
fhere. 19
0kay. 20 0
So fh1s Was jusf k1hd o ah overv1eW ahd 21 A
fheh fhose are spec11c maps. 22
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sltrib.com
So 25 WouTd be fhe spec11c map o 1 0
CoTorado? 2
hR. ShTEL0S. Excuse me, do you have a 3
copy o Exh1b1f 25? 4
{Y hR. h0RTEhSEh} 5
here you go. T`m sorry. Exh1b1f 25 WouTd 6 0
be fhe map o CoTorado C1fy -- 7
Yeah, fhaf WouTd be parf o fhe map. Ahd 8 A
T fh1hk fhere are fWo -- areh`f fhere hof -- are 9
fhere -- 1s fhere hof ahofher map, coTored map, or 10
hof? 11
T fhere 1s T d1dh`f p1ck 1f up. 12 0
WeTT, maybe -- fh1s 1s a1rTy compTefe, 13 A
yeah. 0kay. So fh1s -- fhaf`s jusf ah overv1eW. 14
Th1s 1s fhe map fheh fhaf des1ghafes W1fh yeTToW Wh1ch 15
1s UEP properfy. 16
Ahd 1s fhere ahy des1ghaf1oh oh here fhaf 17 0
WouTd shoW Whaf commerc1aT properfy fhere 1s? 18
ho. 19 A
Ahd does fh1s map reTecf fhe properfy 20 0
fhaf Was soTd af fhe recehf aucf1oh? 21
The properfy soTd af aucf1oh has hof beeh 22 A
removed rom ahy o fhe scheduTes fhaf T`ve g1veh you. 23
0kay. So couTd T go us1hg fh1s humber oh 24 0
Exh1b1f 25 ahd mafch 1f up W1fh Exh1b1f 17 fo 1hd ouf 25
Page 85
Wh1ch properf1es Were soTd af fhe aucf1oh? 1
Tf WouTd be d11cuTf because -- T meah, 2 A
fhe fheory 1s fhere, buf T doh`f fh1hk you cah read 3
fhe humbers rom fh1s map. 4
0o you have a beffer copy o fh1s map? 5 0
ho. 6 A
0kay. 7 0
You m1ghf be abTe fo read some o fhe 8 A
humbers. Some o fhe 1hd1v1duaT Tofs fhaf T khoW, or 9
exampTe, T cah see fhey`re hof eveh T1sfed oh fh1s map 10
as ar as fhe1r parceT humber. 11
0kay. Ts fhere a more compTefe map 12 0
someWhere? 13
T`ve g1veh you Whaf T have. There may be 14 A
1h fhe ehg1heer`s o1ces or somepTace some Targe 15
maps, buf T`m hof aWare o ahy fhaf have parceT 16
des1ghaf1ohs doWh fo fhe 1hd1v1duaT Tofs fhaf We`re 17
faTk1hg abouf. The s1hgTe Tofs or 8500 fhaf Were 18
soTd or 8500 or soTd or 10,000 or Whafever. Those 19
are -- T beT1eve are r1ghf fhere ahd, you khoW, 20
fhey`re jusf foo smaTT fo have fhe parceT des1ghaf1oh 21
fyped 1h. 22
0kay. 23 0
T doh`f have ahyfh1hg. Ahd you keep go1hg 24 A
back fo commerc1aT ahd, ho, We doh`f have ahyfh1hg 25
Page 86
ahyWhere fhaf breaks ouf commerc1aT rom res1dehf1aT. 1
{Y hR. h0RTEhSEh} 4
Exh1b1f 26. Ahd 1f`s a verd1cf orm fhaf T fook o 6
fhe PACER courf 1T1hg sysfem rom -- sorry -- rom 7
fhe Cooke v. ToWh o CoTorado C1fy case. You Were 8
acfuaTTy T1sfed as a pofehf1aT W1fhess 1h fhaf case. 9
01d you fesf1y af aTT? 10
ho. 11 A
You`re aWare o fh1s verd1cf? 12 0
T`m hof aWare o Whaf 1f 1haTTy seffTed 13 A
or. T`m aWare o fhe geheraT verd1cf ahd T 14
uhdersfahd fhere`s beeh a seffTemehf d1scuss1oh s1hce 15
fhaf`s coh1dehf1aT. 16
You`re aWare o fhe amouhf o fh1s 17 0
verd1cf? 18
5.2 m1TT1oh 1h fofaT. 19 A
Ahd 1f Was or d1scr1m1haf1oh by fhe 20 0
c1f1es o CoTorado C1fy ahd h1TdaTe 1h prov1d1hg 21
serv1ces fo fhe Cookes, 1s fhaf correcf? 22
Tf`s my uhdersfahd1hg. 23 A
Page 87
{Y hR. h0RTEhSEh} 1
Exh1b1f 27 ahd T WouTd ask you, are you aWare o a 3
judgmehf W1TT1e Jessop ahd h1s compahy obfa1hed 4
aga1hsf fhe TW1h C1fy Tmprovemehf Assoc1af1oh, Warreh 5
Jes, ahd LyTe Jes or $26 m1TT1oh? 6
WeTT, T`ve heard o a judgmehf. T fhoughf 7 A
1f Was eveh Targer fhah fhaf. 8
So you`re aWare o fh1s? 9 0
Th a 1hormaT Way. 10 A
have you dohe ahy research oh ahy fype 11 0
o -- ahd T doh`f Wahf you fo feTT me Whaf your 12
afforheys have foTd you. T jusf Wahf fo khoW 1 you 13
have dohe ahy 1hdepehdehf research oh verd1cfs 1h 14
cTergy sexuaT abuse cases? 15
ho. 16 A
hR. ShTEL0S. 0bjecf1oh. has hofh1hg fo 17
do W1fh fhe bohd. 18
ThE WTThESS. ho. 19
hR. h0RTEhSEh. Sure 1f does. 20
hR. ShTEL0S. T fake 1f back. T W1fhdraW. 21
You`re r1ghf. W1fhdraW fhe objecf1oh. 22
hR. h0RTEhSEh. hark fhaf as 28. 23
Page 88
sltrib.com
{Y hR. h0RTEhSEh} 1
0epos1f1oh Exh1b1f 28. Ahd T jusf Wahf fo -- T fh1hk 3
T khoW fhe ahsWer, buf you`re hof aWare o fh1s 4
verd1cf, are you? 5
ho. 6 A
hoW, are you aWare fhaf 1TTy WaTker fook 7 0
W1TT1e Jessop`s depos1f1oh 1h fhe case o -- 1h fhe 8
Cooke case? 9
Yes. 10 A
have you seeh a copy o fhaf depos1f1oh? 11 0
T`m hof sure. T`ve read a depos1f1oh o 12 A
W1TT1e ahd T doh`f remember Whefher fhaf -- T probabTy 13
have. Yeah, T probabTy have. T`ve read a -- T khoW 14
he`s had severaT depos1f1ohs buf T beT1eve fhaf Was 15
fhe ohe fhaf T`ve read. 16
Ahd do you khoW 1 he Was r1ehdTy foWards 17 0
fhe Cookes or aga1hsf fhe Cookes 1h fhaf case? 18
hR. ShTEL0S. 0bjecf1oh. Amb1guous. 19
hR. h0RTEhSEh. To fhe besf you khoW. 20
ThE WTThESS. T fh1hk 1f Wehf k1hd o bofh 21
Ways 1h ferms o h1s depos1f1oh, buf he ehded up be1hg 22
more avorabTe fhah hof. 23
To fhe Cookes? 25 0
Page 89
To fhe Cookes. 1 A
Ahd you Were -- rom a persohaT sfahdpo1hf 2 0
ahd as fhe 1duc1ary you Were hopeuT fhaf fhe Cookes 3
WouTd preva1T fo heTp asserf some TaW ahd order 1h 4
fhaf foWh, correcf? 5
Yes. 6 A
hR. ShTEL0S. CouhseT, T`m shoW1hg abouf 9
fWo m1hufes fo 12. 10
hR. h0RTEhSEh. T`m 1h1sh1hg up here. 11
hR. ShTEL0S. 0kay. 12
Exh1b1f 29. Ahd 1f`s a pTead1hg fhaf, aga1h, T puTTed 15
rom fhe Cooke case fhaf your afforhey 1s 1hvoTved 16
W1fh. Ahd are you aWare fhaf fhere`s beeh some -- T 17
Wahf fo make sure T gef fh1s r1ghf -- fhaf heTamah 18
arToW has adm1ffed fo Ty1hg uhder oafh? 19
Yes. 20 A
Ahd 1s fhaf parf o fhe probTem fhaf you 21 0
have fry1hg fo -- fry1hg fo adm1h1sfer fhe Trusf 1s 22
fhaf TaW ehorcemehf o1c1aTs are W1TT1hg fo T1e 23
uhder oafh fo do Whaf 1f fakes fo profecf fhe FL0S 24
Church? 25
Page 90
hR. ShTEL0S. 0bjecf1oh. ReTevahce. 1
ThE WTThESS. Thaf`s a smaTT parf o fhe 2
probTem. The1r acf1ohs aga1hsf fhe Trusf are probabTy 3
more 1mporfahf. The1r fesf1mohy hash`f beeh as 4
cr1f1caT as fhe1r acf1ohs ahd fhe1r Tack o acf1ohs 5
aga1hsf fhe Trusf. 6
{Y hR. h0RTEhSEh} 7
Jusf 1h cohcTus1oh, have you cohs1dered 8 0
seTT1hg ahy o fhe behe1c1ar1es` homes fo pay your 9
TegaT ees ahd your b1TTs? 10
SeTT1hg behe1c1ar1es` homes fo Whom? To 11 A
fhe behe1c1ar1es? Th ofher Words, d1sfr1buf1hg 12
houses fo behe1c1ar1es? 13
Th aucf1oh? 14 0
ho. 15 A
You haveh`f cohs1dered puff1hg fhe 16 0
houses -- ahy o fhe res1dehf1aT properf1es up or 17
saTe or fhe -- or purchase by fhe h1ghesf oer? 18
ho. 19 A
0o you have ahy pTahs fo do fhaf? 20 0
ho. 21 A
Ahd 1 fhe Trusf Were fo cohf1hue fo seTT 22 0
fhe ag ahd commerc1aT properf1es ahd fhe Wafer ahd 23
d1vesf 1fseT o oWhersh1p o fhose, fhe ohTy fh1hg 24
Tef 1h fhe UEP Trusf WouTd be res1dehf1aT properf1es, 25
Page 91
correcf? 1
WeTT, 1 aTT o fhe commerc1aT, aTT o fhe 2 A
ag, aTT o fhe Wafer Were soTd, fhaf ohTy Teaves 3
res1dehf1aT. There are ohTy our cTasses o assefs, 4
CouhseTor, ahd 1 you seTT aTT fhree, fhaf rema1hs -- 5
res1dehf1aT 1s Whaf rema1hs. 6
have you foTd ahy o fhe behe1c1ar1es 7 0
fhaf ET1ssa WaTT -- 1 she obfa1hs judgmehf 1h fh1s 8
case fhaf fhey`TT be orced fo seTT fhe1r home fo 9
saf1sy 1f? 10
T haveh`f sa1d fhaf. CouhseTor made fhe 11 A
commehf 1h courf abouf 30 fo 40 m1TT1oh, ahd T doh`f 12
fh1hk fhere`s 30 fo 40 m1TT1oh o hohres1dehf1aT, ahd 13
so, yeah, 1f couTd be -- fhe res1dehf1aT couTd be af 14
r1sk 1 you`re faTk1hg abouf 30 fo 40 m1TT1oh. 15
Ahd you`ve foTd bofh fhe press ahd fhe 16 0
behe1c1ar1es fhe 30 fo 40 m1TT1oh humber fhaf Was 17
mehf1ohed 1h courf, correcf? 18
T haveh`f faTked -- T doh`f khoW fhaf T`ve 19 A
faTked fo fhe press. Th a foWh meef1hg fhaf came up, 20
yeah. 21
Ahd d1d you feTT fhem fhaf fhaf Was hof 1h 22 0
d1scuss1hg fhe vaTue o fhe judgmehf buf 1h d1scuss1hg 23
Whaf a prejudgmehf Wr1f WouTd be fo profecf ET1ssa 1h 24
fhe evehf -- fo make sure fhaf fhere Were su1c1ehf 25
Page 92
assefs 1 she Wehf fo fr1aT? 1
hR. ShTEL0S. 0bjecf1oh. Compouhd 2
quesf1oh ahd amb1guous. 3
ThE WTThESS. WeTT, 1rsf o aTT, 1h fhe 4
foWh meef1hg Je -- Zach Sh1eTds Was presehf, he`s 5
fhe ohe fhaf d1scussed fhe case. So Wheh you say me, 6
me fhrough my agehf maybe, Zach, ahd T doh`f khoW 7
Whefher he used fhe ferm prejudgmehf or ahyfh1hg. uf 8
T -- T d1d hof d1scuss ofher fhah per1pheraTTy, ahd 9
Zach Was fhere pr1mar1Ty fo d1scuss fhe hJ case. 10
Ahd Zach 1s ah afforhey? 12 0
Yeah. he`s Je -- yeah. 13 A
Ahd he`s fhe ohe fhaf foTd fhe 14 0
behe1c1ar1es fhaf fhey couTd Tose fhe1r homes 1 hJ 15
obfa1hs a judgmehf? 16
hR. ShTEL0S. 0bjecf1oh. h1scharacfer1zes 17
fesf1mohy. 18
ThE WTThESS. You khoW, T doh`f khoW fhaf 19
he sa1d fhaf. T doh`f recaTT h1m say1hg fhaf. he 20
jusf -- he d1scussed fhe case. 21
01d he -- 1h fhe meef1hg oh Augusf 9fh do 23 0
you pTah fo feTT fhe behe1c1ar1es fhaf fhey couTd 24
Tose fhe1r homes 1 ET1ssa obfa1hs a Targe judgmehf? 25
Page 93
WeTT, depehd1hg upoh fhe s1ze o judgmehf 1 A
1f couTd puf fhe1r homes -- 1f couTd puf some homes af 2
r1sk, yes. T fhaf comes up W1fh fhe -- hoW my 3
purpose 1s fo d1scuss fhe sfafus o fhe case. T 4
somebody asks, "WeTT, Whaf couTd happeh," fhaf`s maybe 5
Whaf couTd happeh. 6
has ahyohe ever cohveyed fo you fhaf 7 0
ET1ssa doesh`f Wahf fo fake res1dehf1aT -- ahy 8
res1dehf1aT properf1es? 9
We haveh`f had ahy d1recf commuh1caf1oh 10 A
W1fh ET1ssa so T doh`f khoW Whaf her -- T`ve hever 11
heard ohe Way or fhe ofher. 12
Whaf do you fh1hk fhe bohd shouTd be 1h 13 0
fh1s case? 14
5 m1TT1oh. 15 A
hR. h0RTEhSEh. Thahk you. Thaf`s aTT fhe 16
quesf1ohs T have. 17
hR. ShTEL0S. Thahks, guys. T you Wahf 18
fo gef back fo me oh fhaf Wafer -- are We sf1TT oh fhe 19
record? Lef me say somefh1hg 1rsf. 20
T move fo sfr1ke ahyfh1hg fhaf reTafes fo 21
W1TT1e Jessop, fhe prosf1fufe, T fh1hk fhaf`s 22
1rreTevahf fo fh1s case, 1f Was 1happropr1afeTy gohe 23
1hfo. We Tef you ask fhe quesf1ohs buf We move fo 24
sfr1ke 1f ahd We cerfa1hTy W1TT hof aufhor1ze fhe use 25
Page 94
o fhaf depos1f1oh beyohd fhe bohd quesf1ohs. 1
hR. h0RTEhSEh. Ahd T`m go1hg fo respohd 2
fo fhaf oh fhe record 1h fhaf W1TT1e Jessop Was g1veh 3
a sWeefhearf deaT, ahd T`m ehf1fTed fo 1hd ouf 4
Whefher he had 1hormaf1oh oh hr. W1sah fhaf he used 5
fo h1s behe1f. 6
hR. ShTEL0S. You d1dh`f ask fhaf 7
quesf1oh. 8
hR. h0RTEhSEh. 0h, yeah, T d1d. 9
hR. ShTEL0S. You d1d afer you gof aTT 10
fhe d1rf 1h. 11
hR. h0RTEhSEh. 0h, absoTufeTy. 12
hR. ShTEL0S. You couTd have asked h1m 13
r1ghf up rohf, "01d you do ahy deaT W1fh W1TT1e 14
Jessop?" 15
hR. h0RTEhSEh. Ahd T d1d ahd he sa1d ho. 16
You d1dh`f khoW abouf fhe prosf1fuf1oh 17
beore, d1d you. 18
hR. ShTEL0S. T`m hof go1hg fo 1ghf W1fh 19
you, CouhseT -- 20
hR. h0RTEhSEh. You d1dh`f khoW, d1d you? 21
hR. ShTEL0S. T`m mov1hg -- 22
hR. h0RTEhSEh. ecause you`ve made ah 23
aTTegaf1oh fhaf T d1d somefh1hg 1mproper ahd uhefh1caT 24
ahd T fake fhaf ser1ous. So T Wahf fo you fo expTa1h 25
Page 95
oh fhe record -- keep fhe fape oh -- oh fhe record 1
Whaf T d1d Wrohg. ecause T doh`f fh1hk T d1d 2
ahyfh1hg Wrohg ahd T fh1hk you have a comprom1sed 3
W1fhess. You`ve gof a b1g probTem fhaf you`re go1hg 4
fo have fo 1x. 5
hR. ShTEL0S. Th1s depos1f1oh`s over. 6
hR. h0RTEhSEh. So feTT me Whaf T d1d 7
Wrohg. 8
hR. ShTEL0S. T`m hof be1hg deposed here, 9
CouhseT. T made my objecf1oh. T made my mof1oh fo 10
sfr1ke. 11
hR. h0RTEhSEh. 0kay. T gave you your 12
chahce. 13
hR. ShTEL0S. T you Wahf fo depose me, 14
sehd a hof1ce o depos1f1oh. 15
hR. h0RTEhSEh. ProbabTy Whaf We`re go1hg 16
fo do g1veh fhe d1rf fhaf`s come ouf, because 1 you 17
kheW abouf 1f, fhaf`s a probTem foo. 18
hR. ShTEL0S. T you Wahf fo faTk abouf 19
fhe Wafer, Wh1ch 1s Whaf T proposed fWo Weeks ago ahd 20
you sa1d, "We doh`f Wahf fo faTk uhf1T afer We have 21
dohe fh1s depos1f1oh d1scovery." We`ve hoW dohe fhaf. 22
hy quesf1oh fo you Was, "0o you Wahf fo faTk abouf fhe 23
Wafer? T you do, g1ve me a caTT." 24
hR. h0RTEhSEh. T Wahfed fo have a 25
Page 96
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med1af1oh oh fhe 9fh ahd you guys are hav1hg a meef1hg 1
fo sTam our cT1ehf. 2
{0epos1f1oh cohcTuded af 12.04 p.m.} 3
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Page 97
C E R T T F T C A T E 1
STATE 0F UTAh } 2
C0UhTY 0F _________ } 3
4
T hEREY CERTTFY fhaf T have read fhe 5
orego1hg fesf1mohy ahd fhe same 1s a frue ahd correcf 6
frahscr1pf1oh o sa1d fesf1mohy W1fh fhe excepf1oh o 7
fhe oTToW1hg correcf1ohs T1sfed beToW g1v1hg my 8
reasohs fhereor. 9
10
11
12
_____________________________ 13
RUCE R. WTSAh 14
15
Subscr1bed ahd sWorh fo af __________________, 16
17
fh1s ____________ day o _________________, 2014. 18
19
_________________________________ 20
h0TARY PULTC 21
hy comm1ss1oh exp1res.
22
_______________________
23
24
25
Page 98
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Page 99
C E R T I F I C A T E
STATE OF UTAH )
COUNTY OF SALT LAKE )
THIS IS TO CERTIFY that the deposition of
BRUCE R. WISAN was taken before me, AMBER PARK, a
Certified Shorthand Reporter in and for the State of
Utah.
That the said witness was by me, before
examination, duly sworn to testify the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth in said cause.
That the testimony was reported by me in
Stenotype and thereafter transcribed by computer under
my supervision, and that a full, true, and correct
transcription is set forth in the foregoing pages.
I further certify that I am not of kin or
otherwise associated with any of the parties to said
cause of action, and that I am not interested in the
event thereof.
WITNESS MY HAND on August 1, 2014.

Wisan Deposition

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