Karl Marx Was Really a Free-Marketeer,

Says Attali: Interview

By Farah Nayeri - August 29, 2005 20:47 EDT
Aug. 30 (Bloomberg) -- Karl Marx was a closet capitalist.
So writes French author ac!ues Attali in ""Karl Marx ou l#esprit $u mon$e## (Fa%ar$&
'0( pages& )3 euros.)
Attali argues that the theoretician wi$el% blame$ *or the rise an$ *all o* the So+iet
,nion was actuall% a *ree-mar-eteer who *a+ore$ capitalism as a stepping stone to his
communist i$eal an$ pre$icte$ globali.ation as we -now it to$a%.
/hat& he sa%s& ma-es Marx the thin-er $u 0our. Sales o* his boo- suggest he ma% be
right& at least in France1 ""Karl Marx## ran-s among the countr%#s non-*iction bestsellers.
2i-e his sub0ect& Attali is something o* an o+erachie+er. 3e gra$uate$ *rom *our o*
France#s elite ""gran$es ecoles&## *inishing top o* his gra$uating class at the 4cole
5ol%techni!ue engineering school.
6hen the late Francois Mitterran$ became presi$ent o* France in 7897& Attali& then 39&
mo+e$ into the a$0acent o**ice as his special a$+iser. Some o* his i$eas later became
realit%1 the :ran$e Bibliothe!ue& the giant librar% in eastern 5aris& an$ the 4uropean
Ban- *or ;econstruction an$ <e+elopment& base$ in 2on$on.
/o$a%& Attali is presi$ent o* 5la=et Finance& a *e$eration o* some 70&000 micro-len$ers
that pro+i$e *un$ing to the poorest o* the poor. 3e is also the author o* 3> boo-s&
inclu$ing no+els& chil$ren#s stories an$ a pla%. /he topic o* his 39th? Mitterran$& his
one-time mentor& who $ie$ a $eca$e ago.
Free Marx
@n a rain% $a% last wee-& Attali settle$ into a re$ armchair at Bloomberg#s 5aris bureau
an$& between sips o* 4arl :re% tea& share$ his +iews on Marx& the worl$ an$ the *uture.
=a%eri1 An %our biograph%& %ou sa% Marx has become rele+ant to the worl$ to$a%. 3ow
so?
Attali1 Marx was un$erstoo$ as the thin-er o* Marxism an$& more than that& a thin-er o*
So+ietism. Actuall%& Marxism an$ So+ietism were built a*ter Marx& an$ against him.
Marx was a thin-er o* globali.ation. 3e was strongl% against the i$ea o* ta-ing power
*or socialism in one countr%& strongl% against the i$ea that communism coul$ come
instea$ o* capitalism. For him& socialism shoul$ come a*ter capitalism sprea$s
e+er%where in the worl$& inclu$ing Bhina an$ An$ia. Aronicall%& he explaine$ that the
one countr% where socialism cannot begin is ;ussia& which is too bac-war$.
For Marx& capitalism was huge progress compare$ to the pre+ious *eu$al s%stem.
/here*ore& he was strongl% in *a+or o* capitalism as progress towar$ libert% *or
man-in$. 3e was in *a+or o* *ree mar-ets. 3e was in *a+or o* *ree tra$e& explicitl%C
against protectionism& explicitl%. An$ he explaine$ that socialism& there*ore& shoul$
come a*ter.
Be%on$ Bapitalism
=a%eri1 <o %ou thin- that the worl$ accor$ing to Marx will e+er see the $a%?
Attali1 A#m sure there will be something be%on$ capitalism.
At is clear that capitalism will win against the pre+ious regime. At will ta-e a lot o* time&
there will be some *ights against theocracies as well as $ictatorships. But A belie+e
capitalism is not here *ore+er& meaning more than one& two& three or *i+e centuries.
6hat is be%on$ capitalism is a worl$ o* *ree things an$ (things o*) no +alue& an$ what
we see on the Anternet& in ($ownloa$e$) music ... is exactl% that1 the beginning o* a
worl$ where some things& or e+er%thing& will or ma% become *ree.
=a%eri1 <o %ou thin- the ,.S. an$ the 6est will lose their political an$ economic
$ominance o* the planet in '0 %ears# time?
Attali1 An '0 %ears& no. But there is no empire *ore+er& 0ust as there is no ci+ili.ation
*ore+er& an$ it#s clear that the American empire& li-e the ;oman 4mpire& will begin to
$ecline& an$ is beginning to $ecline. As we saw with the ;oman 4mpire& the $ecline
too- more than *our centuries to happen an$ what happene$ a*ter that was a $isaster.
Anarch% or :o+ernance?
/he !uestion is how long the $ecline o* the American empire will ta-e& an$ *or me& it
will be +er% long. 6hat will happen a*ter will be global anarch%& such as happene$ in
the earl% Mi$$le Ages& or the beginning o* global go+ernance& i* we see a +ictor% o*
$emocrac%.
=a%eri1 Bob :el$o* *amousl% sai$ he woul$ li-e to ma-e po+ert% histor%. As the
presi$ent o* 5la=et Finance& $o %ou consi$er that aim possible?
Attali1 At is nee$e$. A $on#t -now i* it is possible.
6e see that po+ert% is one o* the main sources o* +iolenceC terrorism *in$s its sources in
po+ert%& an$ po+ert% *in$s its sources in +iolence. But A $on#t belie+e that the
instruments that Bob is proposing& such as $ebt relie*& are the most e**icient ones&
because $ebt relie* means $ebt relie* o* go+ernments& an$ the $ebt o* go+ernments is
ma$e *or bu%ing weapons or whate+er. At is more important to help the +er% poorest to
get out o* $ebt. At#s what micro-*inance is about.
=a%eri1 6hat is %our next pro0ect in terms o* boo- writing?
Attali1 A am *inishing m% un$erstan$ing o* what Francois Mitterran$ was all about.
=a%eri1 3ow come it too- %ou so long to $eci$e to write this boo-?
Attali1 6ell& 70 %ears a*ter his $eath& A thin- it#s time to sa% what A thin- about his
action.