RINGING TRUE: THE LOGIC OF THE LAST THINGS

There is so much that is fascinating about the reea!e" truths of our faith surroun"ing the en" of time#
$hich# as %ou ma% a!rea"% &no$ are four: 'eath# (u"gment# Heaen ) He!!* +e "on,t hae time to "o
een an ina"e-uate sure% of the to.ic# but honest!%# $hen it comes to a.o!ogetics a !ot of it "oesn,t
matter* For e/am.!e# I,m not going to a""ress things !i&e 0the ra.ture1# or the .ro.erties of our
resurrecte" bo"ies in heaen an" in he!!* In fifteen %ears of being a "efector from eange!ica!ism an"
hun"re"s# ma%be thousan"s of conersations I hae neer ha" those to.ics come u.* In fact# $hen it
comes to getting gri!!e"# I be!iee that a!! that matters is that %ou 2A3E SENSE# an" that to a "egree
%ou s.ea& the same s.iritua! "ia!ect as the .erson that %ou are ta!&ing to* 4ou "on,t hae to be
f!uent*4ou "on,t hae to &no$ a !ot about the 5ib!e or ancient !anguages# or the fine .oints of theo!og%*
4ou 6ust hae to sa% something that RINGS TRUE an" %ou hae to sa% it in a $a% the% can un"erstan"*
7An%one here $ho &no$s the Urban,s .robab!% &no$s that the% are ho.e!ess o.timists# un-uenchab!%
.ositie# it seems# about .rett% much eer%thing# $hich I sus.ect is $h% I $as as&e" to s.ea& tonight
on so e/.ansie a to.ic* Oh# an" a!so because the% ran out of mone%# an" it is getting co!" an" "ar&*8
Let me begin $ith m% cre"entia!s* I,m not a theo!ogian# I "on,t een rea" that much* 2uch of $hat I
'O rea"# I "on,t un"erstan"* I,e neer $ritten a serious .a.er or "iscourse on an%thing re!ate" to our
ho!% faith* So ta&e heart# !i&e the ta!&ing ass through $hich the Lor" rebu&e" the .ro.het 5a!aam# $e
can a!! be usefu! in this mission*
Si/ %ears ago I $as the best man in a Chicago $e""ing# for a frien" $ho entere" the church t$o %ears
after I ha"* After the rece.tion a man a..roache" me ho!"ing an infant* 0I,e been $anting to than&
%ou#1 he sai"# 0in .erson1* I," neer seen him before* I $on"ere" if .erha.s he," !i&e" something I sai"
at m% toast* 0I,m Ruben# an" this is 5ri"get1# he sai"# 0Actua!!%# it,s m% "aughter 5ri"get that $ants to
than& %ou1* I !oo&e" at the one %ear o!"# that 0$ante" to than& me1* 0Si/ months ago 5ri"get $as
ba.ti9e"* 5ri"get is to"a% a ba.ti9e" Catho!ic because I,m a Catho!ic*1 He continue"#0I became a
Catho!ic because m% $ife became a Catho!ic before me* 2% $ife Tessa became a Catho!ic because her
brother became a Catho!ic a fe$ %ears ago* An"# AS 4OU 3NO+# her brother 3ar! became a Catho!ic
$hi!e he $as at +heaton# on account of his frien"shi. $ith 4OU*1 I hugge" Ruben# an" I hugge"
5ri"get# an" I b!esse" the name of the Lor"*
A.o!ogetics ma% seem to be about not getting merci!ess!% beaten in .ub!ic# YES# but at it,s "ee.est !ee!
it,s about counse!ing the ignorant# see&ing the !ost# an" she.her"ing the $an"ering sou!* If %ou $ant to
$in sou!s for Christ,s church then %es# $e nee" to be $e!! catechi9e"# but een more so $e nee" to be
$e!! eange!i9e"* +e nee" the testimon% of an authentic encounter $ith (esus Christ# $ithout $hich a!!
the technica! "ata an" best rhetoric is .o$er!ess*
Dovetails
This to.ic is a "ifficu!t because truth is One# it,s a!! connecte"# a!! the reea!e" truths of our faith
"oetai!* +hat $e be!iee about human beings an" sa!ation "oetai!s into the !ast things# $hat $e
be!iee constitute the re!iab!e sources of "iine ree!ation "oetai!s into our un"erstan"ing of !ast
things it,s $here it comes from* So it,s a cha!!enge to !imit onese!f to "iscussion sim.!% of !ast things
$ithout touching on these other matters* 5ut this eening I,m going to tr% har" to refrain an" sim.!%
high!ight the things that are most !i&e!% to arise in a conersation in the .ub!ic s-uare: .ossib!% $ith
someone hosti!e to the faith entire!% or .erha.s $ith somebo"% $ho ma% !oe Christ er% much# ma%
een !oe Christ more than I "o# but has sim.!% not ha" the o..ortunit% for soun" catechesis# firm!%
roote" the historica! truth of the faith "e!iere" once an" for a!! b% our Lor" (esus Christ an" .resere"
from a!! error b% the .o$er of the Ho!% S.irit*
Tonight I $i!! a""ress four obstac!es* The first t$o are: 'isbe!ief in a Go" at the En" of Time# an"
'isbe!ief in He!! an" ;or the Castration of He!!# $hich is the i"ea that if ite/ists# nobo"% goes there
$hich is tragica!!% ensnaring more confuse" be!ieers it seems a!! the time: a!so c!assica!!% &no$n as
uniersa! reconci!iation <a&a a.o&atastasis=*
Eternity is irrelevant because, I just can't believe in God.
If somebo"% "oesn,t be!iee in Go"# $e!!# to he!! $ith being .re.are" to "iscuss ob6ections to the en" of
time* There are a !ot of "irections that a conersation about Go",s e/istence can go* 5ut again# a!! %ou
hae to "o is sa% something that rings true* This ha..ene" recent!% $ith a co>$or&er of mine# $ho I
$ou!" not characteri9e as o.en!% hosti!e# but is a staunch agnostic* This $as one of m% ear!iest
interactions $ith this .erson# an" it came u. because somebo"% mentione" in conersation that I
.robab!% .ra%e" for m% co>$or&ers* Her re.!% $as 0Than&s# but no than&s# %ou can &ee. %our .ra%ers
to %ourse!f1* An artic!e $as brought to m% min" about some .retenatura! eents that ha" been
"ocumente" ear!ier in the %ear* So I as&e" her if she ha" hear" about the "emonic .ossessions in
In"iana# she sai" no# I .rinte" this artic!e off for her: This is from USA To"a% on (anuar% ?@
th
of this
%ear:
It started with flies
In Noember ?ABB# Lato%a Ammons, fami!% moe" into a renta! house on Caro!ina Street in Gar%#
In"iana# a -uiet !ane !ine" $ith sma!! one>stor% homes* 5ig b!ac& f!ies su""en!% s$arme" their
screene">in .orch in 'ecember# "es.ite the $inter chi!!*
CThis is not norma!#C Lato%a,s mother# Rosa Cam.be!!# remembers thin&ing* C+e &i!!e" them an" &i!!e"
them an" &i!!e" them# but the% &e.t coming bac&*C
There $ere other strange ha..enings# too*
After mi"night# Cam.be!! an" Ammons both sai"# the% occasiona!!% hear" the stea"% c!um. of
footste.s c!imbing the basement stairs an" the crea& of the "oor o.ening bet$een the basement an"
&itchen* No one $as there*
Cam.be!! sai" she a$o&e one night an" sa$ a sha"o$% figure of a man .acing her !iing room* She
!ea.e" out of be" to inestigate# an" foun" !arge# $et boot.rints*
On 2arch BA# ?AB?# Cam.be!! sai"# the fami!%,s unease turne" to fear*
It $as about ? a*m* Lato%a# $ho $as in Cam.be!!,s be"room# start!e" eer%one b% screaming# C2amaD
2amaD
Cam.be!! sai" she ran into her be"room# $here her then>B?>%ear>o!" gran""aughter an" a frien" $ere
sta%ing*
Ammons an" Cam.be!! sai" the B?>%ear>o!" $as !eitating aboe the be"# unconscious* Ammons an"
seera! other surroun"e" the gir!# .ra%ing* Eentua!!%# Cam.be!! sai"# her gran""aughter "escen"e"
onto the be"* The gir! $o&e u. $ith no memor% of $hat ha..ene"*
Family sought help
Cam.be!! an" Ammons ca!!e" !oca! churches !oo&ing for he!. $ith $hat the% be!iee" $as something
su.ernatura!# but most refuse" to !isten * * *
* * *The best thing %ou can "o is moe# Ammons remembers being to!"* 5ut moing $asn,t an o.tion for
the cash>stra..e" fami!%*
Instea"# Ammons sai" she too& a c!airo%ant,s a"ice an" ma"e an a!tar in the basement*
A!so on a c!airo%ant,s a"ice# the% burne" sage an" su!fur throughout the house# as frien" rea" Esa!m
FB a!ou"*
Ammons sai" nothing o"" ha..ene" for three "a%s* Then# things got $orse*
The fami!% sai" "emons .ossesse" Lato%a an" her chi!"ren# then ages @# F an" B?* The &i"s, e%es
bu!ge"# ei! smi!es crosse" their faces# an" their oices "ee.ene" eer% time it ha..ene"*
Fina!!%# in "es.eration# the% $ent to their fami!% .h%sician on A.ri! BF# ?AB?* Ammons sai" she to!"
him $hat the% $ere going through# ho.ing he might un"erstan"*
The artic!e goes on to "escribe her chi!"ren being .ic&e" u. an" thro$n against the $a!! in the "octors
office# .assing out $ithout $arning# gro$!ing# e%es ro!!ing into the bac& of their hea"s an" strang!ing
one another sa%ing# 0It,s time to "ie1# an" 0I $i!! &i!! %ou1* Their gran"mother "escribe" $atching $hat
!oo&e" !i&e a bas&et fu!! of sna&es $rithe insi"e the be!!% of one of her gran"sons as he screame" in
.ain* Oi! "ri..e" from un&no$n sources in the fami!%,s home*
+hat ha..ene" ne/t $ou!" ratt!e the $itnesses# an" to some it $ou!" offer not on!% ei"ence but .roof
of .aranorma! actiit%*
Accor"ing to +ashington,s origina! 'r.artment of Chi!" Serices re.ortG an account corroborate" b%
+a!&er# the nurse an" $itnesse" b% other .ara.rofessiona!s in an emergenc% room at the time of the
inci"entGthe F>%ear>o!" ha" a C$eir" grinC an" walked backward up a wall to the ceiling. He then
flipped over Campbell, landing on his feet. He never let go of his grandmother's hand.
CHe $a!&e" u. the $a!!# f!i..e" oer her an" stoo" there#C +a!&er to!" The Star* CThere,s no $a% he
cou!",e "one that*C
The rest of the artic!e "etai!s the chi!"ren being remoe" from the home b% officia!s from the 'e.t of
Chi!" Serices# an" the testimonies of .arame"ics# .o!ice officers# .s%cho!ogists# an" u!timate!% a
Eriest $ho $as contacte" b% the fami!% out of "es.eration an" $ho $ou!" fin" himse!f re-uesting
.ermission to .erform e/orcism in the name of the Church*
I "on,t &no$ ho$ %ou fee! hearing a!! of that but m% armhair stan"s on en" an" m% heart .oun"s* So I
as&e" m% co$or&ers <as there $ere no$ a number of them engrosse" in this to.ic= $hat the% thought*
Not a sing!e one "oubte" the account# the% $ere as s.oo&e" b% it as I $as an" the nurses station $as
a!ie $ith $i"e>e%e" energ%* So 0+h%#1 I as&e" them# 0+h% is it so eas% to be!iee in ei! an" "emons
an" so har" to acce.t Go" an" his ange!sH +h% can I be!iee in "ar&ness $hich is mere!% the absence
of !ight# co!" $hich is nothing more than the absence of heat* Iso!ation $hich is the .ainfu! absence of
connection# of frien"shi.* None of these things "ar&ness# co!"# an" !on!iness e/ist in themse!es# but
on!% as the absence of a goo"# that of !ight# $armth# an" frien"shi.* Ho$ then can it be that $e sort of
embrace an" acce.t as rea! this negatie of ei!# of "ar&ness# hate# "eath an" fear $hich are mere!% the
tragic absence of something that is rea!H That !oe# an" securit% an" "iine .o$er# an" !ight an" hea!ing
e/ist because the% are generate" b% a 'iine Eerson $ho ta&es a .ersona! interest in each one of us*
This agnostic co$or&er# b% the $a% too& her husban" an" their four chi!"ren to mass for the first time
6ust oer a $ee& ago# an" I am cautious# but o.timistic that this ongoing conersation $i!! continue to
unfo!" $ith a magnificent sho$ing of Go",s unboun"e" generosit%*
+h% the resistanceH Accounts !i&e this ring true an" most of us fin" them to be ine/.!icab!e un!ess %ou
conce"e that not 6ust human ei!# but ei! inte!!igent .ersona!ities <$ith $hom %ou $ou!" NOT $ant to
s.en" eternit% I might a""= e/ist in this $or!"* 5ut $hat about Go"H Go" is "ea"H If not "ea"#
irre!eant# im.otent# archaicH +e,e outgro$n himH +hen $e assert that Go" is "ea"# $e mean that
an% sense of ob!igation $e use" to fee! to ac&no$!e"ge his ree!ations# his .resence# his rights# his
ceremonies an" ritua!s# an" his so ca!!e" anti-ate" !a$s# is "ea"* So "emonic .ossessions# sure# I can
be!iee that# but the e/istence of Go"H (esus resurrecting from the "ea"H That har"!% seems reasonab!e#
"on,t %ou thin& it,s time to gro$ u. an" acce.t that there,s no o!" gran".a in the s&% $ho cares about
%ouD
I fin" that time an" time again# these same !ies seem a!$a%s to be .resent $here the $ho!e truth is
absent# but ar% in "egree*
he Importance of he !tory
C+hen I $as at +heaton# I sho$e" u. to the c!ass of m% faorite .rofessor# 'r* +ebber* As $e sett!e"
into our seats# 'r* +ebber as&e" us not to un.ac& our boo&s* He state" that the co!!ege ha" a!rea"%
contacte" our .arents regar"ing an in.romtu fie!" tri. he ha" arrange" for us* The% ha" sought our
.arents .ermission "ue to the controersia! "estination of our tri.* The c!ass I $as ta&ing from +ebber
$as Historica! Theo!og% an" a fair .iece of our stu"% $as aroun"# of course# the histor% of the
sacraments an" !iturg%* 'r* +ebber announce" that $e $ou!" be going to a Satanic Tem.!e near
Chicago as guest obserers of a rite to see the .ererte" inerse s%mmetr% of their $orshi. $ith that of
the !iturgica! forms $e $ere stu"%ing* It $as a shoc&ing announcement to sa% the !east* He contiue"# CI
$ant to te!! %ou .art of $hat %ou are going to see# because I "on,t $ant an%one to fee! ta&en off guar"
or nee"!ess!% uncomfortab!e* As .art of the ritua!# the Satanic Eriest $i!! inite Satan to enter into a
chic&en# $hich $ou!" then be s!aughtere" an" .re.are" as .art of a ritua! mea!* The staff I s.o&e to on
the .hone sai" that non>initiate" guests are $e!come to .arta&e of the mea!# an" reassure" me that the
chic&en $ou!" be .re.are" in a manner eer%one $ou!" be use" to* So# I $ante" to get an i"ea from a!!
of %ou $hat %ou fe!t comfortab!e $ith# so I cou!" !et them &no$ $hat to antici.ate from our grou.#
since there are thirt% of us* 5% a sho$ of han"s# is there an%one $ho &no$s for sure that the% $on,t
hae a .rob!em eating from the chic&enHC Not a sing!e han" $ent u.* +ebber# sur.rise"# as&e" $hat it
$as that bothere" .eo.!e about that* The consensus $as that nobo"% $as intereste" in eating# touching#
or other$ise being near to something that a Eriest of Satan ha" inite" the 'ei! into* Then he stuc& his
b!a"e "ee. into our Eange!ica! s$eet s.ot* CSo %ou be!iee that a Eriest of Satan is more .o$erfu! b%
association $ith his Lor" than a Eriest of Go" in coo.eration $ith hisH +hen he inten"s to honor ei!#
an" coo.erates $ith a "iabo!ica! .ersona!it%# he can consecrate an ob6ect into something ei!# but $hen
Go",s serant b% Go",s .o$er in obe"ience to Go",s comman" consecrates an ob6ect# such as brea" an"
$ine# into the eucharist# %ou cannot fin" the faith to be!iee that it is an%thing more than 6ust brea" an"
$ineH 4ou be!iee that the 'ei! is more .o$erfu! than Go"*C That moment transforme" me* An"
"oesn,t it 6ust RING TRUEDH It sim.!% resonates*
"astrating #ell
This .articu!ar error is grieous in it,s reach* Ob6ections to the e/istence of he!! or the be!ief that if it
"oes e/ist# that nobo"% is in there# hae ma"e inroa"s to the eange!ica! $or!" through the !i&es of
.eo.!e such as Rob 5e!! an a!um of m% o$n co!!ege in his recent boo&# 0Loe +ins1# an" I,m
"istresse" to confess that this error has in recent times has infecte" the much !oe" catechesis of at !east
one high .rofi!e an" .o.u!ar Catho!ic .ersona!it%# $hom I,m not going to .ub!ic!% name: Tim Urban
$bjection
0Ho$ can a !oing Go" sen" .eo.!e to he!!H I 6ust can,t be!iee it* 4ou,re te!!ing me that a !oing Go"
$ou!" sen" m% Grann% to he!! because she,s a 6e$H Ho$ can an a!!>.o$erfu!# a!! !oing Go"# sen"
.eo.!e to he!!H1
Ho$ can a !oing Go" !et chi!"ren stare in Africa# !et battere" $omen get beat u. again# !et that bab%
be born $ith t$o hea"s an" if Go" is so .o$erfu! an" so !oing# then ho$ cou!" a!!o$ me to hae such
cra..% !uc& $ith $omen an" !et m% i.hone get "ro..e" in the toi!et* <The actua! first $or!" .rob!ems
our ob6ector is concerne" $ith=* I,m suffering an" if Go" e/iste" an" !oe" me# I $ou!"n,t be# I $ou!"
be ha..%* +hat %ou "o sa%H
#ell E%ists &ecause $ur 'ord is a Gentleman
02% suffering# sing!e# .hone!ess# atheist frien"# I,m not sa%ing this is $hat ha..ene"# but $hat if# 6ust
.reten" $ith me for a moment# $hat if %our Grann% * * * $ants to go to he!!H I,m not sa%ing she "oes#
but $hat if# $hat if she sai"# 0(esus# I $as taught %our heaen is for Christians an" I,m 6e$ish# an" I
$on,t go there*1 +hat if "es.ite (esus, assurance that he an" HIS mother $ere both 6e$ish an" -uite
ha..% there# she insiste" on it an" sai" 0I $on,t hae it an% other $a%# an" I $on,t be ta!&e" out of it
an" I,m a stubborn (e$ish grann%# eer% bit as stubborn as %our o$n hebre$ grann%# an" I,!! be "amne"
if I,m gonna .a! aroun" $ith %ou an" %our &in" u. there*1 +hat shou!" he "oH Iio!ate her free"omH
5ecause he is stronger# ho!" her "o$n an" force her into the b!iss of heaenH +e!!# he $on,t* He $on,t
"o that# no matter ho$ .ainfu! it is for him* 5ecause# to -uote one outstan"ing homi!ist# 0Our Lor" is a
gent!eman# an" he $i!! not go $here he is not $e!come"*1
Let me brea& it "o$n !i&e this: Imagine a three !egge" stoo!* +ithout a!! three !egs the stoo! becomes
!o.si"e" an" the sitter tumb!es off of it* In this .rob!em# one !eg is Loe* The sacre" scri.ture sa%s that
Go" IS LOIE* Go",s highest .erogatie in this $or!" is# as the a"orab!e! 3i" Eresi"ent sa%s# 04ou
$ere made from love, to be love# to s.rea" !oeD1 5ut for !oe to be REAL# it must be FREE* It must be
chosen# it cannot be force"# it cannot be bribe"# nor coerce"* Loe must be free!% chosen* So that is the
secon" !eg of our stoo!* The first !eg is LOIE an" the secon" !eg is FREE +ILL* 5ut if !oe is tru!%
free# then m% free"om must hae the .o$er of contrar% action* 2% free"om must be rea! to the .oint
that I can use it to re6ect Go",s !oe if that is $hat I choose to "o* 2% free"om must hae enough
strength that I can abuse it# or abuse Go" an" Go",s !oe $ith it* So the first !eg is LOIE <Go",s
highest .erogatie for us= an" the secon" !eg is FREE +ILL <!oe that is not free!% chosen cannot be
rea!= an" our thir" an" fina! !eg is RIS3# Go" ta&es the ris& that $e ma% use our free"om to re6ect his
!oe* Go" res.ects human free"om $ith so much sincerit% that though it tears the heart from his chest#
he ma&es a .!ace $here %ou $i!! not hae to en"ure his !oe an" .resence* An" that .!ace# being em.t%
of Go"# is em.t% of Loe# an" to be em.t% of Loe is to suffer# an" so that is $h% He!! must e/ist#
because Go" !oes us an" res.ects our free"om* If I came into this $or!" inca.ab!e of re6ecting Go",s
!oe# then I $ou!" be no "ifferent than %our i.hone in the toi!et# .rogramme" to gie a certain res.onse
to a certain stimu!us but u!timate!% a "ea" thing in the $ater# not a !iing thing $ith authentic free"om
an" the .o$er of se!f "etermination*
Natura!!%# at this .oint %our atheist frien" is serious!% contem.!ating the high .robabi!it% that his
grann% most !i&e!% "i" te!! off (esus# so be rea"%# he ma% re-uest ba.tism on the s.ot*
CS Le$is .uts it this $a%: 0 * * * the "amne" are# in one sense# successfu!# rebe!s to the en": that the
"oors of he!! are !oc&e" on the insi"e*1 The gates of he!! "on,t &ee. .eo.!e in# the% &ee. Go" out*
Eeo.!e $i!! abuse this i"ea of course# the% might sa% stu.i" things# such as this stu.i" thing sai" to a
Eriest in Chicago: 0Father# serious!%# are %ou te!!ing me that Go" is going to sen" me to he!! for eating
meat on a Fri"a% of LentH1 To $hich m% .riest re.!ie"#0Of course notD That,s .re.osterous# Go" $ou!"
NEIER sen" %ou to he!! for eating meat on a Fri"a% of Lent * * * 5UT# he might !et %ou go there to be a
rebe!*1 So that,s m% fina! thought# on this to.ic of ob6ection to the e/istence of he!!# Go" sen"s no one
to he!!# but being a gent!emen $i!! not .reent those $ho $ish to go from sen"ing themse!es there*
Let,s moe on to one of the great !osses of the Erotestant Reo!ution:
(r )oger's *udgment !eat + he ,urgation of ,urgatory
There is one $on"erfu! thing that is common among a!! .rotestants $ith an eange!ica! s.irit# that is the
"ogmatic em.hasis on the centra!it% of each in"ii"ua!,s re!ationshi. $ith (esus Christ# the% ma% not
&no$ him in the brea&ing of the brea"# the% ma% re6ect the com.anionshi. of his o$n 2other# the%
ma% miss out on a treasure troe of generosit% that he a!$a%s meant for them to hae# an" neerthe!ess
the% c!ing to $hat the% hae $ith the "etermination of a staring man to a crust of brea"* Consi"er ho$
often the% shine $ith such heroic fi"e!it% to him $ithout the benefit of the sacramentsD It shou!" shame
usD +e $ho !ie in his house# eat at his tab!e# are ca!!e" b% his name# an" hae his bri"e for our 2other*
Ho$ anemic is our !oeD
The Case for Eurgator%
There is a strong historica! an" scri.utra! case for .urgator%
B* 2an% Christian "octrines# inc!u"ing the "octrine of .ra%er for the "ea" an" .urification after
"eath is strong in some of the boo&s $hich the Erotestants "is.ute from $hat the% "iscre"it
as the a.ocr%.ha* I "on,t hae time to ma&e the case for the a.ocr%.ha here# but I $ou!" be
ha..% to emai! it to %ou*
?* The bottom !ine is# the se.tuigent $hich inc!u"e" the boo&s that the .rotestants ca!! the
a.ocr%.ha is the ersion of the o!" testament use" b% our Lor" an" the ear!% church# so if it,s
goo" enough for (esus an" the A.ost!e Eau!# it ought to be goo" enough for usD
J* It is a!so foun" in the Ne$ Testament:
There are seera! .assages in the Ne$ Testament that .oint to a .rocess of .urification after "eath*
(esus himse!f "ec!ares <2atthe$ B?:J?=: CAn" $hosoeer sha!! s.ea& a $or" against the Son of man# it
sha!! be forgien him: but he that sha!! s.ea& against the Ho!% Ghost# it sha!! not be forgien him#
neither in this $or!"# nor in the $or!" to come*C The Fathers an" 'octors of the Church see in this
"ec!aration of (esus an un"erstan"ing of a .ossibi!it% of future .urification of sin after "eath*
A further argument is su..!ie" b% St* Eau! in I Cor* J:BB>BK: CFor other foun"ation no man can !a%# but
that $hich is !ai": $hich is Christ (esus* No$ if an% man bui!" u.on this foun"ation# go!"# si!er#
.recious stones# $oo"# ha% stubb!e: Eer% man,s $or& sha!! be manifest: for the "a% of the Lor" sha!!
"ec!are it# because it sha!! be reea!e" in fire: an" the fire sha!! tr% eer% man,s $or&# of $hat sort it is*
If an% man,s $or& abi"e# $hich he hath bui!t thereu.on# he sha!! receie a re$ar"* If an% man,s $or&
burn# he sha!! suffer !oss: but he himse!f sha!! be sae"# %et so as b% fire*C
+e must un"erstan" something if $e are to a"ress this .rob!em $ith our se.arate" christian brethren#
an" that is this: The%# in a .rotot%.ica! form# ALREA'4 be!iee in Eurgator%* If $e are to gain their
ears regar"ing other matters here# $e must first "ra$ bac& the ei! on this fact*
Eange!ica! christians ten" to em.hasi9e t$o as.ects of their re!ationshi. $ith Go": (ustification an"
Sanctification* (ustification being that 'EFINITIIE 2O2ENT OF CONIERSION* One moment
%ou $ere one thing# then ne/t something e!se entire!%# much !i&e $e conceie of $hat ha..ens to an
infant at the moment of his ba.tism* One moment a Chi!" of +rath an" enem% combatant against Go"#
the ne/t# $ashe" c!ean of origina! sin an" in"$e!t b% the Ho!% Trinit%: an a"o.te" chi!" of Go"*
Santification on the other han" is .o.u!ar!% thought of as that .rocess of bearing fruit b% $hich a
6ustifie" be!ieer incrementa!!% brings his behaior un"er the Lor"shi. of Christ# $hich is ei"ence of
his sincere conersion to Christ an" the $or& of grace*
There is nothing that I $ou!" characteri9e as fun"amenta!!% at o""s $ith a Catho!ic un"erstan"ing to
this .oint* No$# $ithout -uestion# Catho!ics $i!! see the re!ationshi. of (ustification an" sanctification
as being more integrate"* The BFFL Catechism .aragra.h BBFK states: 0The Ho!% S.irit is the master of
the interior !ife* 5% giing birth to the ,inner man,# 6ustification entai!s the sanctification of his $ho!e
being1*
he Grammar Grenade
+or"s matter* Catho!ics an" .rotestants hae been se.arate" for so !ong that a number of a..arent
.ara"igmatic im.asses are rea!!% 6ust a matter of using "ifferent grammar to e/.ress a common be!ief*
Imagine this conersation bet$een a Catho!ic an" an eange!ica!:
0So $hat %ou,re te!!ing me is that %ou be!iee in a .rocess b% $hich the sincere be!ieer through the
grace of Go",s !oe is .urifie" of attachment to sin# se!fishness# an" eer%thing that stan"s as an
obstac!e to fe!!o$shi. $ith Go"1 Of course# that,s sanctification*
,5ut that this .rocess ma% be .ainfu!# because the cancer of sinfu! attachment can metastasi9e "ee.
insi"e# but Go"# as a !oing surgeon "esires us to be freeH1 Abso!ute!%*
0That this .rocess of sanctification starts no$# an" that Go" is commite" to he!. us to remain in this
state unti! as the 5ib!e sa%s# he ,brings to com.!etion the goo" $or& that he has begun in %ou,H1 4es*
+e!!# m% "ear heretic# I $i!! sheath m% crusa"ers s$or" an" s.are %ou a s!a%ing for it a..ears $e
be!iee in the same thing* On!% $hat %ou ca!! sanctification# $e Catho!ics ca!! .urgator%*
No$ terrifie" at the ree!ation that he be!iees in the Romish "octrine of .urgator%# the heretic $i!!
.rotest# 0I be!iee if %ou are sae" %ou go "irect!% to heaen* That,s bib!ica!*1
Is itH 04es abso!ute!%# the bib!e s.ea&s on!% of the heaen of the e!ect an" the he!! of the "amne"* T$o
.!aces* No inbet$eens*1
In Lu&e Cha.ter BM our Lor" re!a%s this account: 0There $as a rich man# $ho $as c!othe" in .ur.!e
an" fine !inen an" $ho feaste" sum.tuous!% eer% "a%* An" at his gate !a% a .oor man name" La9Narus#
fu!! of sores# $ho "esire" to be fe" $ith $hat fe!! from the rich manOs tab!e: moreoer the "ogs came
an" !ic&e" his sores* The .oor man "ie" an" $as carrie" b% the ange!s to AbrahamOs bosom* The rich
man a!so "ie" an" $as burie": an" in Ha"es# being in torment# he !ifte" u. his e%es# an" sa$ Abraham
far off an" La9Narus in his bosom* An" he ca!!e" out# PFather Abraham# hae merc% u.on me# an" sen"
La9Narus to "i. the en" of his finger in $ater an" coo! m% tongue: for I am in anguish in this f!ame*O
5ut Abraham sai"# PSon# remember that %ou in %our !ifetime receie" %our goo" things# an" La9Narus in
!i&e manner ei! things: but no$ he is comforte" here# an" %ou are in anguish*1
Consi"ering that (esus is sti!! a!ie an" has not %et o.ene" the gates of heaen b% the merit of his
sacrifice on the cross# $here .ra% te!! are Abraham an" La9arus in this accountH
0+e!!# I "on,t &no$# it must be a .arab!e or something*1
A .arab!eH
0Cou!" be1*
O&a%# !et me as& %ou this: +hat "i" (esus te!! the goo" thief as the% "ie" u.on their crossesH
0To"a% %ou $i!! be $ith me# in paradise.
Right* +here is .ara"iseH
0Heaen# obious!%*1
Is it obiousH
0It is to me*1
O&a%# $hat "oes the scri.ture sa% about $here (esus $ent $hen his human sou! $as "isembo"ie" from
his human f!esh on the "a% of his "eathH
0I "on,t &no$# to heaenH At the en" (esus sai"# ,Father into %our han"s I commen" m% s.irit,1
B
st
Eeter J rea"s# 0 For Christ a!so "ie" for sins once for a!!# the righteous for the unrighteous# that he
might bring us to Go"# being .ut to "eath in the f!esh but ma"e a!ie in the s.irit: in which he went and
preached to the spirits in prison, who formerl did not obe, when !od"s patience waited in the das of
#oah, "uring the bui!"ing of the ar&# in $hich a fe$# that is# eight .ersons# $ere sae" through $ater*
0(esus $ent to prison$ To .reach to the "isobe"ient .eo.!e from the "a%s of NoahH1
That,s right*
0That "oesn,t soun" !i&e heaen1*
No# it "oesn,t*
0It "oesn,t much soun" !i&e the he!! of the "amne" either1
No# it "oesn,t*
0So $here is itH1
Some$here inbet$een# $e cou!" ca!! it Eara"ise I guess
0Sure!% he $ent to heaen# right after he .reache" at the $eir" inbet$een .rison .!ace* I mean
,Eara"ise, has GOT to mean heaen* He .romise" the thief# ,THIS 'A4# %ou $i!! be $ith me*1
He &e.t his .romise# but no# he s.ent a!! three "a%s there*
0Ho$ "o %ou &no$H1
It,s in the 5ib!e*
0Catho!ics "on,t rea" the 5ib!e1*
(ohn ?A:B@ 2ar% 2ag"a!ene recogni9es the Risen Lor" in the gar"en: 0(esus sai" to her# 0'o not ho!"
me# for % have not et ascended to the &ather' but go to m brethren and sa to them, % am ascending to
m &ather and our &ather, to m !od and our !od.1
0So that,s it*1
4e.*
0I be!iee in something inbet$een Heaen an" He!!# "on,t I*1
On!% if %ou be!iee the 5ib!e*
0E!ease "on,t te!! m% mom1*
7The !ast moe I recommen" to shame %our o..onent* +herein %ou as& %our gri!!er# 0Hae %ou eer
rea"# (he !reat )ivorce b% CS Le$isH1 The% $i!! fee! great shame if the% hae not# an" I hae neer
met a .urgator% ob6ector that has# $hich gies %ou the a"antage for the% $i!! be tri..ing oer
themse!es to agree $ith 'ear Le$is an" this $i!! ma&e %our $or& 2UCH easier*
The Great 'iorce go rea" itDDD Start $here common groun" e/ists a!rea"%D The eange!ica!s !oe CS
Le$isD
Rea" e/cer.t* 4ou gotta be rea!*8
Eternal !ecurity + (r )oger's *udgment !eat- .lso /nown .s he !in of ,resumption
Some eange!ica! .rotestants at this .oint $i!! "ra$ a shar. "istinction ho$eer* The% $i!! sa%#
0(ustification is $hat is necessar% for ETERNAL SECURIT4# an" sanctification is mere!% ei"ence of
that 6ustification*1
2an% eange!ica!s $i!! c!aim# 0Life that is eterna! can neer be !ost1* Eerha.s %ou hae hear" the
-uestion .ose": 0If %ou $ere to "ie tonight $ou!" %ou &no$ for sure that %ou $ou!" go to heaenH1 A
goo" Catho!ic $ho $ishes to aoi" the sins of "es.air an" .resum.tion usua!!% sa%s something !i&e# 0I
ho.e I $ou!" go to heaen# but I "ont, &no$ for sure1* This m% frien"s is &no$n as fa!!ing "irect!% into
the boob% tra.* +orse than that# this i"ea can be so centra! to their .ara"igm# if %ou ste. into the snare
here# it $i!! "isso!e a!! "ia!ogue* Here is a better ans$er# one faithfu! to the teaching of our Church
that is not such conersation cancer*
0I see it !i&e this* I,m $a!&ing a!ong in the 6ung!e an" I fa!! into -uic&san"* The more I strugg!e# the
"ee.er I sin&* I am he!.!ess to sae m%se!f* (ust as m% hea" is about to s!i. un"er the surface of the
san"# I see (esus coming "o$n the trai!* I cr% out# 0Lor"# SAIE 2E1# he -uic&!% grabs a strong ine
an" thro$s it to me* 0Ho!" on1 he sa%s# 0an" "on,t !et go1* I &no$ m% Lor"* He has the strength to .u!!
me out# an" the !oe to en"ure the suffering of it* I &no$ he is might% to sae* 0I grab the ine an" I
cr% out# 0I,m sae"1D 4et# in the san" I remain# u!nerab!e to the threat on m% !ife unti! I am brought out
of the .it an" am .resent an" safe $ith m% Lor" on "r% !an"*1 Eer% man has on!% the .o$er to ho!" on
to the ine* This is a!! that is re-uire" of us# nothing e!se* An" so $e are sae" in ho.e# because $e
&no$ the character of the saior $ho $i!!s to sae us# han" oer han" he "rags us into heaen if $e !et
him# if $e 6ust "on,t !et go* One "a% !oo&ing bac& at that moment $hen I grabbe" that ine an" fe!t the
!oe of eer% beat of (esus heart# I $i!! see in that moment the beginning of m% heaen*1
he .rgument from )elationship
2ost eange!ica!s ten" to s.ea& free!% of their .ersona! re!ationshi. $ith Christ* As shou!" $e!! forme"
Catho!ics* An" use of the ana!og% of re!ationshi.# es.ecia!!% matrimon% can be usefu! to reea! the ug!%
face of the sin of .resum.tion# that is# the eange!ica! "octrine of Eterna! Securit%*
So %ou,re a catho!ic*
4eah*
So %ou be!iee %ou can !ose %our sa!ation# huh*
No*
+a""a%a mean# ,no,*
+e!!# I,m a catho!ic so I be!iee that the most im.ortant thing in !ife is m% re!ationshi. $ith
Christ# in fact to be ,sae", is that# to &no$ him an" be &no$n b% him foreer* That,s $hat heaen is*
Not snea&ing .ast St* Eeter at the .ear!% gates# rea! HEAIEN is to be $ith Go"* In a sense# I,m in
heaen right no$*1
5ut can %ou !ose %our sa!ationH
I "unno# are %ou marrie"H
4eah# so $hatH
+e!!# $hat $ou!" ha..en if %ou sai" %our o$s# signe" %our marriage !icense# then "ro..e"
%our $ife off at the house an" neer moe" inH
Not much of a marriage * * * no se**
4eah# %ou shou!" .robab!% "o that if %ou,re marrie"*
+hat are %ou getting atH
+e!!# %ou sai" that sa%ing some $or"s an" signing %our name "oesn,t ma&e much of a marriage*
So I "i"* I be!iee that*
So $hat ma&es a marriageH
I guess * * * rea! consent * * * sincere effort * * * the right intentions * * * an" !et,s not forget# intimac%*
4es# "efinite!% "on,t !eae that out# an" "on,t forget fi"e!it%*
Can $e get bac& on to.icH
4es* +e are* +hat if %ou .refere" to hae se/ $ith the neighborH
+hatHD Are %ou serious# she," &i!! me*
Een if she "i"n,t# un!ess %ou re.ent an" see& forgieness# %our marriage might as $e!! hae a!!
the ita!it% of a cor.se# rightH
+h% are $e "oing thisH
5ecause sa!ation is a marriage to Christ*To be intimate $ith him* The bib!e sa%s he,s m%
bri"egroom an" I,m his bri"e* To .refer an%thing to Christ cou!" .otentia!!% sabatoge our communion*
I "on,t "isagree $ith that# but I be!iee %ou sti!! get to go to heaen*
CS Le$is sa%s# 0Heaen is o.en to $homeer "esires to enter1* 5ut I $ant to !ie $ith the
neighbor no$*
+e!!# that,s stu.i"# heaen is better*
Een so# m% bri"egroom is there* An" right no$# I .refer something e!se*
4ou,re ho.e!ess*
That is e/act!% m% .oint*
As bib!e>be!ieing catho!ics# $e be!iee that a rea! 6u"gment $i!! be han"e" "o$n# $ith conse-uences
or re$ar"s# not a mere forma!it% or some &in" of !ega! fiction# !i&e the fearsome (u"gment seat of 2r*
Rogers* The A.ost!e Eau!s sa%s in ?
n"
Corinthians K:BA: 0For $e must a!! a..ear before the 6u"gment
seat of Christ: that eer% one ma% receie the things "one in his bo"%# accor"ing to that he hath "one#
$hether it be goo" or ba"*1 An" in the Gos.e! of 2atthe$ @:?B: CNot eer% one $ho sa%s to me# ,Lor"#
Lor"#, sha!! enter the &ing"om of heaen# but he $ho "oes the $i!! of m% Father $ho is in heaen*1
+hat a "iabo!ica!!% bri!!iant strateg% for the enem% to "eceie our se.arate" brethren not to fear
6u"gmentD
I $i!! en" $ith a -uote from the The Catechism of the Counci! of Trent states: C * * * there is scarce!%
anone so gien oer to ice as not to be reca!!e" to irtue b% the thought that he must one "a% ren"er
an account before an a!!>6ust (u"ge# not on!% of a!! his $or"s an" actions# but een of his most secret
thoughts# an" must suffer .unishment accor"ing to his "essertsC*
So a bunch of anect"otes# an" imagine" situations* Te!!ing stories o.ens e%es an" sae !ies* It,s no
$on"er (esus "i" it so often* I hae seen conert after conert turne" to the church sometimes b% the
.o$er of a sing!e anect"ote that 6ust ha..ene" to be the one that rings true*
In the Name of the Father# an" the Son# an" the Ho!% S.irit# Oh 2% (esus# forgie us our sins* Sae us
from the fires of he!!* Lea" a!! sou!s to heaen* Es.ecia!!% those most in nee" of th% merc%* Amen*
The Great 'iorce ) Fire of Loe