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MICHAEL P. SNYDER, Official Court reporter
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FRIDAY, SEPTEMBER 26, 2014
(Discussion on the record at sidebar.)
THE COURT: This is my problem. To the extent -- I
could see that there's a balance here on the one hand, but on
the other hand it's probably better to do it today than next
week at some point when we actually have a jury.
If I don't let them talk about it, all these media
people will probably file a motion, which I'll probably have to
grant, allowing disclosure of everything. So I'm not sure we
are not better off.
Now, I assume that what you're talking about is that
there are some allegations in there of attempted extortion.
MR. LEONARD: Sure.
THE COURT: Is there any reason for him not to say
that on the record?
MR. JONAS: Can I ask a preliminary question, first?
They did move to strike his testimony. I'm assuming we are
beyond that?
THE COURT: Yes, are we beyond that? Is it just a
question of cross-examination?
MR. TUNICK: Well, assuming Your Honor is --
MR. LEONARD: Is that granted? I mean, if you're
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MICHAEL P. SNYDER, Official Court reporter
92
granting our motion, I don't need to get into it. And if the
government is withdrawing Mr. Burris as a witness --
THE COURT: Well, then you have to tell me how you
are, what more you could do, because all you could ever do
anyway is ask him.
MR. TUNICK: Judge, here's the issue, okay? This man
testified in front of a grand jury. He's the same person that
led them to an indictment as to Madrano and Mario Moreno and --
THE COURT: I don't know who he is.
MR. TUNICK: Well, so he's a credible witness
according to the government. He's cooperated --
THE COURT: Okay, but you won't be able to bring
him --
MR. TUNICK: No, no. I'm just trying to get some
background.
And he testified before the grand jury.
THE COURT: We are doing all this at the sidebar, and
I would really rather do it -- unless there's a really good
reason not to. What is the reason not to just do this open?
MR. JONAS: Just going to the question I asked. If
you agree, we are not withdrawing the witness, and we are
opposing their motion to strike him. If Your Honor were to
grant it, then there's no point in addressing it.
THE COURT: That's true.
MR. JONAS: That's why I wanted to address it first.
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MICHAEL P. SNYDER, Official Court reporter
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THE COURT: Okay. Then the issue would be whether
they have given you the information too late.
MR. TUNICK: Well, they haven't still given us the
grand jury transcript. This man -- they just summarized a
little paragraph.
MS. ALEXAKIS: Your Honor --
MR. TUNICK: Excuse me, can I just talk, please?
Please.
So the only thing they gave us was this little
paragraph. They cited him testifying in the grand jury
about --
THE COURT: It wasn't a paragraph; it was pages.
MR. TUNICK: No, no, just about what Lxxxxx said about
the extortion, about how he was, that he attempted extortion.
And they say he testified in front of the grand jury.
Well, we don't have the grand jury transcript,
anything about the investigation, any interviews of Roland
Burris about this particular issue, nothing but this little
paragraph. And that's why I'm asking for additional Giglio
material about this, because it does go to bias. If he knows
about this investigation, about this $250,000 attempted
extortion, surely -- he didn't even, he didn't even ask for a
lawyer when he was interviewed with the U.S. Attorney's office
about this case.
So it goes to bias and why he's cooperating with them.
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MICHAEL P. SNYDER, Official Court reporter
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And specifically he is an important witness because he's going
to say "I had no part of this letter, I didn't authorize it, I
never saw it," and that feeds right into the government's case.
And --
MS. ALEXAKIS: Your Honor --
MR. LEONARD: It's just like the Trotter motion,
Judge. It goes to his motive to testify falsely.
THE COURT: Okay. We are not talking about
limitations on cross-examination right now. We are still
talking about whether you didn't -- because otherwise we'll
just go, I'll release this and put the rest on the open record.
MS. ALEXAKIS: I just want to respond to two
representations that Mr. Tunick made, or two comments that he
made.
I represent to the Court that I've reviewed the
relevant Giglio material. I've produced all relevant Giglio
material related to this investigation. There aren't relevant
materials related to --
THE COURT: Is there a grand jury transcript?
MS. ALEXAKIS: There is a grand jury transcript. The
reason why it was summarized is the majority of the -- the
reason why it was conveyed to defense in the summary format in
the cover letter as opposed to just handed over is because
there are large portions of the grand jury testimony that have
nothing to do with Senator Burris. I have with me and I'm
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MICHAEL P. SNYDER, Official Court reporter
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happy to show you, Judge, the copy of the grand jury, the
complete testimony of the grand jury testimony of GWL and in
addition the FBI 302s of GWL. And I think that if you compare
the grand jury testimony, the complete transcript and the
complete 302 with the information that's included in the
discovery letter, I think you'll come to the conclusion that I
have fairly accurately summarized, represented, given to
defense counsel exactly what they need in order to
cross-examine the witness.
MR. TUNICK: Did you interview Roland Burris about
this particular issue?
MS. ALEXAKIS: Yes.
MR. TUNICK: Okay. Don't you think that is relevant,
that potential Giglio material? I mean, if he interviewed him
about this extortion scheme?
MS. ALEXAKIS: We spoke to him very recently about
this.
MR. LEONARD: If he lied to the U.S. Attorney's
office, Judge, that's further evidence that we could use.
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. JONAS: Your Honor, if I can just, as I told you
this morning, we are doing 302s, the FBI is doing 302s as fast
as we can getting them processed and turned over. Burris'
interview was --
MS. ALEXAKIS: Wednesday.
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MICHAEL P. SNYDER, Official Court reporter
96
THE COURT: Okay, I assume they'll give you that, and
the other issue will be whether it's appropriate
cross-examination. Maybe they won't disagree. But I'm not
going to strike his testimony, certainly not at this point.
MR. TUNICK: Can I just add one thing? The grand jury
took place in 2012. It's really hard for me to believe that
they didn't speak to Burris about this potential extortion
scheme until just recently.
MS. ALEXAKIS: I represent to you, Your Honor, that to
the best of my knowledge and the best of my investigation into
materials that the FBI has and the US Attorney has regarding
this investigation, they did not.
THE COURT: Okay. Is there any reason why I should
not just put this on the open record?
MR. LEONARD: Absolutely should, Judge.
THE COURT: Considering that, I realize that to the
extent you may have potential jurors, but there's lots of
things that, you know, just they are not, if anybody has -- the
usual things we would ask jurors, and usually the media is
successful in requiring that things be disclosed. So you have
to tell me some really good reason not to.
MR. JONAS: We would ask that you at least qualify it
in that this is an accusation made by an individual, and
there's been nothing else presented to the defense to support
that accusation, because there hasn't been anything else. In
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03:26:57
MICHAEL P. SNYDER, Official Court reporter
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other words, the media has already published an article about
this, and they are accusing Senator Burris of --
MS. ALEXAKIS: Being the subject of a second probe, a
completely separate federal investigation.
MR. TUNICK: This is not just any person. This is a
witness the government has used in several investigations
and --
THE COURT: Well, all I'm concerned about is the one
that we are on trial. Okay.
(End of discussion at sidebar.)