George Thompson as a case study in racist Invasionism

On the internet discussion list of the Religion in South Asia (RISA) chapter of the
American Academy of Religion (AAR), September 2011 sa a debate on racial
concepts in !edic India" #he thread$s header as% &'hy is (rishna blue)* +y
participation in it as probably a factor in my subse,uent sudden and une-plained
e-pulsion from the list" #his e-pulsion frees me from the commitment to secrecy
about hat is being said and done on the list" So no, e can gi.e a little o.er.ie
of that debate"
/arly on, 0rof" 1eorge #hompson put his cards on the table% &I2.e been telling
students for 23 years that (rishna is blue because he is a non4!edic tribal god"* (5
Sep")
A 6(4based Indian 0rofessor as not so sure% &'ell, the non4!edic nature of the god
might not ensure the colour7 Indeed (rsna (but perhaps !isnu too) is identi8ed ith
+ayon 4 the dar9 one 4 in :an9am #amil, and it is not clear hich ay the in;uence
ent" <ut on the other hand, another colour4coded non4!edic #amil god is Seyyon 4
the red one 4 ho came to be called Subrahmanya"""*
#hompson replies% &'ell, the color is ensured by the etymology of the ord 29rsna2"
As for !isnu, he is of course an early !edic god, though not yet a prominent one in
the R!, and there is no mention of !isnu2s color in early !edic, as far as I 9no"* (5
Sep")
#o a :hicago4based 0rofessor ho is not con.inced that the dar9 colour of (rishna$s
idols refers to historical s9in colour, #hompson replies% &It is clear that (rsna is a
blac9 god" #here is no shame in that" And there is no shame in the .ie that he as
a tribal god" Or an aboriginal one" 'here is there lac9 of respect in the suggestion
that (rsna as originally a non4!edic tribal god) I thin9 that (rsna is more
interesting than his hite !edic colleagues"* (= Sep)
#he professor from :hicago did not ta9e this .eiled imputation of anti4aboriginal
racism lying don% &>ou seem to entirely misconstrue my meaning" As I too9 some
minor pains to suggest, my issue as ith e.idence, not conclusion" I ha.e no
trouble ith blac9" <lac9 is beautiful, as they used to say" ?or, ere it remotely
possible to establish that (rishna as @originally$ a @tribal god$ or @aboriginal god$,
ould there be any shame for him or his de.otees"
&+y concern is not ith theological shame, but ith hat might be called
methodological shame (or its lac9)" /mpirically spea9ing, of course, (that is, de
facto) you are entirely correct that @there is no shame in the .ie that he as a
tribal god$" On the other hand, de Aure, I thin9 there ought to be rather more shame
in the community of scholars ho study Indian religions (and this goes for the .ast
maAority of references in historical or9s to Indian @tribes$ or @aborigines$)"
&'hether or not one is a @tribal god$ (hate.er that might be 44 and I thin9 this is
not at all clear, hoe.er people might bandy the concept about) is (ideally)
normati.ely neutral" Boe.er, ma9ing claims about tribal this and tribal that based
on fragments of ambiguous e.idence, half4formed ideas about hat the nati.e
communities of India might ha.e been in the historical periods under discussion,
and a healthy dose of laCy historical fantasy (in respectable circles, this is called
@historical retrodiction$ or @synthesis$), should be a matter of some shame indeed"*
&#here is some little e.idence for communities one might call @aboriginal$ or @tribal$
in India in the ancient period" Boe.er, most of it either re,uires serious
interpretati.e caution (being, after all, literary representations of marginal
communities that bear mar9ed connotations in mainstream discourses) or
contradicts the typical Indological fantasy of hat characteriCes @aboriginal, tribal$
societies and religions"*
So, this 0rofessor imputes to 0rof" #hompson an eagerness to bandy &racism* about,
as ell as the methodologically sloppy readiness to assume &tribal* origins" I am not
the only one to suspect that 1eorge #hompson is a race hustler" A 0rofessor from
<uDalo ?> dedramatiCes the race issue in the Bindu conte-t%
&I recall, many years ago, B" Eaniel Smith, the Sans9rit scholar ho had by then
turned his focus to Bindu poster art, telling a class that the reason that (ali as
represented in poster art as blue rather than blac9 as because they couldn2t use
that much blac9 in early chromolithography 44 I don2t recall e-actly hyF perhaps it
seeped into neighboring colors) And the technical limitations of the poster art
changed the ay many people .isualiCed (ali (as blue as ell as blac9)" 0erhaps
something similar is the case ith (rishna)* (= Sep")
#hompson to the :hicago professor, = Sep"%
&I suppose that I ha.e misunderstood your original post, because in fact I do agree
that there is little e.idence 44 either positi.e or negati.e G for any claim about
(rsna2s origins" 'hen e are dealing ith te-ts that are at least 2000 years old (and
in my case at least H000), e are all, in my .ie, in the dar9 ages" I probably am
more aare of this than most list members because I spend most of my time on the
Rg.eda" One of my little proAects is to translate the cycle of hymns attributed to the
rsi Eiirghatamas, so I 9no a lot about dar9ness, intentional, riddling dar9ness"
&:olor symbolism is an interesting matter but it does not lead us to the light of
history" <y the ay, my reference to hite !edic gods as facetious (I as .aguely
alluding to our 'hite Aryan <rotherhood friends)" I don2t thin9 that any of us is
@hite$" @'hiteness$ is a racist concept, in my .ie" I ill close by pointing out that
the !edic clans ere not only not hiteF they ere tribal, intensely macho, and
.irulently -enophobic" I2.e been reading Iarrod 'hita9er2s ne boo9 Strong Arms
and Drinking Strength: Masculinity, Violence and the Body in Ancient India (I2.e
been as9ed to re.ie it)" Be points out that nohere in the R! is nrmna, 2manliness,2
e.er ascribed to any indigenous peoples (p" 3H)"*
?obody in his right mind as referring to &our 'hite Aryan <rotherhood friends*,
e-cept for 1eorge #hompson" It is only he ho lin9s the Indo4Aryans ith the
unrelated 'hite Aryan <rotherhood" Be rote bac9 on 10 September%
&J#he :hicago professorK and I ha.e gotten clearance from Eeepa9 to continue this
discussion for a bit longer" Se.eral misunderstandings ha.e been cleared up"
&In the introduction to my 1ita translation, I claimed, on the basis of my reading of
the te-t alone, that the doctrine that (rsna as an a.atar of !isnu as not yet a
settled doctrine in the 1ita" Somehat later after ma9ing this assertion, I as as9ed
to re.ie Angeli9a +alinar2s boo9 The Bhagavadgiitaa: Doctrines and Contexts
published in 200L (hich is the year in hich I had 8nished my 1ita boo9), and she
made the case for this claim at much greater length than I did, and she persuasi.ely
argued that her .ery learned .ie, and my not .ery learned but intuiti.e .ie,
represented the current consensus"
&So, I thin9 that it is fair to say that there as initially signi8cant resistance to the
idea that (rsna as an a.ater of !isnu" In most of the te-t of the +<h, (rsna is
usually considered a mere mortal (ing of the !rsnis" 'hile the term .rsni is a good
old !edic ord, it isn2t used to refer to a particular tribe" #he clan of the !rsnis do
not appear on the scene until epic J+<hK Sans9rit" Since I am a !edicist most of all, I
claim no e-pertise on the ethnography of this !rsni clan" It might be orthhile to
pursue this, though" It may help us to learn something historically signi8cant about
(rsna2s origins" <ut I2ll lea.e this for those ho ould 9no more than I do"
&#hrough this sort of ethnographical research e may be able to get some historical
insights into the origins of (rsna" In any case, I thin9 that this 9ind of approach may
pro.e to be more fruitful than color symbolism"*
A .ery :hristian 0rofessor inter.ened on = September under the header% #he Indo4
/uropean Immigrants2 Self :onsciousness%
&Sisters and brothers, A recent mention of Iarrod 'hita9er2s ne boo9 reminded me
of something that I ha.e been meaning to as9 the list" I 9no from /d <ryant2s The
uest !or the "rigins o! Vedic Culture, that the e.idence that the Indo4/uropeans
characteriCed the indigenes in South Asia as @snub nosed$ is e-ceedingly thin" #his
prompts a more basic ,uestion% Assuming that the Indo4/uropeans migrated into
South Asia, but assuming that it as not a catastrophic in.asion, that it as a
mo.ement o.er se.eral centuries, etc", is there solid e.idence in early !edic
literature that the migrating Indo4/uropeans thought of themsel.es as a separate
people) #hat they spo9e a diDerent language" Or had a diDerent religion and
mythology" Or that they ere someho ethnically distinct (if not ith longer noses,
than ith lighter s9in, or is e.en that too much a product of modern racism)" #hat
the immigrants labeled themsel.es @Aryans$ and the indigenes ere labeled
@Easyus$ or @Easas$, of something of the sort" Is the e.idence good for this)*
Another 0rofessor added on 11 september under the same header% #he Indo4
/uropean Immigrants2 Self :onsciousness%
&In all of our e-citement to discuss hy (rishna is blue (from the serious to the
silly), I fear this e-cellent ,uestion posed by Jthe :hristian 0rofessorK may ha.e
gotten lost in the barrage of emails" I am .ery interested in this topic as ell, and
ould also appreciate some insight from our !edic scholars"*
#hat$s hen, 11 september, I inter.ened under this same header% #he Indo4
/uropean Immigrants2 Self :onsciousness%
&Eear listfol9,
&#he debate o.er hether there e.er as an Aryan in.asion has raged (and I mean
raged) for to decades, and if there had been such e.idence for the !edic people
seeing themsel.es as in.aders and others as nati.es, it ould ha.e been plastered
all o.er the aDected discussion forums including this one" So no, there is no such
e.idence"
&MranNoise <ader in her te-tboo9 of Indo4/uropean linguistics tries to deri.e @Arya$
(the self4reference term of both Iranians and !edic Indo4Aryans) from @alia$, related
to OatinP/nglish @alien$, in the sense of @the foreigners, the in.aders$" <ut e.en
among the Aryan In.asion belie.ers, she ne.er found many ta9ers for this rather
o-ymoronic e-planation of a sel!4referential term as meaning @the others$"
&In the Rg4!eda, the terms @Easa$ and @Easyu$, hich are also 9non in ethnic
meanings in Iranian languages, refer ithout any doubt to Iranians, i"e" fello Indo4
/uropeans, hiter than or at least as hite as the !edic people" ?ot to +undas or
Era.idians" #he Rg4!edic <attle of the #en (ings and !arshagira <attle (the 8rst on
the Ra.i ban9s in 'est 0anAab, the second beyond the <olan 0ass in southern
Afghanistan, after the estard e-pansion rendered possible by !edic 9ind Sudas2s
.ictory in the 8rst battle), ere .ery de8nitely beteen Iranians and !edic Indo4
Aryans" #he second of these battles is also alluded to in the younger A.esta, here
the same battle leaders are mentioned% RAash.aPArAasp and Soma9aPBumaya9a on
the Indian side, !ishtaspaPIshtash.a on the Iranian side" R! 1%122%1H mentions
IshtQsh.a, the Sans9rit form of Iranian 2!ishtQspa2, ell49non as Rarathustra2s royal
patron% 2'hat can IshtQsh.a, Ishtarashmi or any other princes do against those ho
enAoy the protection (of +itra and !aruna))2 #hus the interpretation of Sayana and
S( Bodiala, as reported by Shri9ant #alageri, The #igveda, a $istorical Analysis,
p"2134221, and also folloed, at least in the names gi.en, by BB 'ilson and (M
1eldner in their R! translations" It is a rare treat in studies of ancient literature
hen a single e.ent is reported in to independent sources, hich moreo.er
represent the to opposing parties in the e.ent"
&JEear :histian 0rofessorK, your ,uestion for e.idence is an eminently good one"
'hen people say, for e-ample, that (rishna, though described as belonging to one
of the !edic @8.e nations$, is called @blac9 because he as a non4Aryan indigenous
tribal leader$, it is indeed right and necessary to as9 them for their e.idence"
&(ind regards,
&Er" (oenraad /lst, non4aSliated Orientalist*
#his argumentation of mine contains one non4essential mista9e, .iC" the !QrshQgira
<attle too9 place on the eastern, Indian side of the <olan pass, not on the 'estern,
Afghan side" <ut it as a battle beteen !edic Indians and A.estan Iranians" #erms
li9e EQsa, Easyu and Asura are ell4attested in Iranian but nohere attested in
&tribal* languages"
?onetheless, 1eorge #hompson replied on 12 september, no under the header%
#he Indo4/uropean Immigrants2 Self :onsciousness" Be clearly as .ery angry for
my accusing him of building a far4reaching thesis on no e.idence at all%
&Eear Oist,
&'e ha.e had this argument ith +r /lst many, many times already, and I am not
going to aste much time on running in circles ith him again" Be is a .irulent
Bindut.a.adin" Mran9ly, I don2t thin9 that he has earned a place on this list"
&<ader2s etymology for the term @arya$ is in fact idely accepted by competent
linguists" Actually, it isn2t her etymology" It is much older than she is" It has been
common 9noledge for se.eral generations" /lst is not a competent linguist"
&Oet me point out also another mista9e that /lst ma9es, along ith Jyet another
0rofessorK" ?o Indo4/uropeans e.er in.aded India" Indo4/uropeans, by the third
millennium, had already fragmented into a doCen or more distinct linguistic families"
Indo4/uropeans eren2t a race7 #hey ere a group of linguistic families, spea9ers of
.arious related languages7 #his is linguistics 101, my friends7 I can2t belie.e that I
ha.e to gi.e this lecture yet again on a scholarly list7
&#he clans that migrated into India some H000 plus years ago ere !edic clans, ho
had .ery close ties to the Iranian clans that migrated estard into Iran at about
the same time that the !edic clans ere approaching the Indian subcontinent" #hey
fought constantly ith their Iranian cousins, Aust as they fought constantly ith the
indigenous clans of India hen they 8nally reached the 0anAab"
&Ooo9, e ha.e signi8cant e.idence, linguistic e.idence, that clearly demonstrates
that the !edic tribes did in fact migrate into India o.er the course of many
centuries" 'e ha.e good linguistic e.idence that Indra fought against tribes ho
had no ethJnKic ties hatsoe.er ith Indo4Iranian tribes (see (uiper2s list of terms
that ha.e no cognates either in I/ or in Indo4Iranian)" #hese ould ha.e to ha.e
been tribes indigenous to India"
&/lst continues to thin9 that early Iranian and early !edic clans thought in terms of
their @hiteness$ 'ell, hat e.idence is there for that) /lst, in my .ie, clearly
operates from a racist ideology" Ooo9 again at him"
&If you all ant to e-plore the scholarly dar9 ages% this is here to loo9"
Be is not competent to tal9 about A.estan" I am"*
'ell, ell" In a conte-t here the diDerence beteen a and %, beteen arya and
%rya, gets confused by the occasional non4use of the %, it seems that 1eorge
#hompson hasn$t understood the import of MranNoise <ader$s use of arya" 6nli9e
0aul #hieme and other &competent linguists* ho are &older than she is*, and ho
interpreted %rya as a deri.ati.e of arya, &other* , .iC" as &inclined toards the other,
hospitable, altruistic*, <ader interprets %rya as a synonym of arya, .iC" as &the
other, the stranger* through the semantic conduit &coming from another country T
%rya*" (&angues Indo'(uro)*ennes, p"UU) #here is no e.idence for this at all, e-cept
that it falls in line ith the Aryan In.asion #heoryF but e.en all the other AI#
champions ne.er thought of it, until 1eorge #hompson ga.e his support to it"
#hen e ha.e the champion of the racial interpretation of ancient !edic terms
slamming the open non4racial door% &Indo4/uropeans eren2t a race7 #hey ere a
group of linguistic families, spea9ers of .arious related languages7 #his is linguistics
101, my friends7 I can2t belie.e that I ha.e to gi.e this lecture yet again on a
scholarly list7* +ost members e.en of the RISA list ere perfectly aare of the non4
racial import of the Rg4!eda, it is only 1eorge #hompson ho opened the debate by
saying in so many ords that for 23 years he has been teaching that (rishna$s
imputed racial traits are signi8cant for his ethnic bac9ground"
'hat is simply unacceptable is that the a.oed racist 1eorge #hompson, once he
feels the anti4racist mood on the RISA4list, accuses me of all people of racism" /.er
since my 8rst riting on the Aryan In.asion #heory, the boo9 Indigenous Indians in
1==H, I ha.e consistently lambasted the 1=
th
4century racial interpretation of !edic
terms" 1eorge #hompson, by contrast, has espoused that interpretation all along"
It remains a fact that Iranian refers a hundred times in a self4referential or at least
partially Iranian sense to the terms hich the !edas use to name their enemies"
?one of the tribal languages, not e.en the Era.idian languages, do so" #hey also do
not ha.e the so4called deshi (.ernacular but not attested in Sans9rit) ords for Bindi
plant names, hich are non4e-istent in the non4Indian Indo4/uropean languages
only because it is no use retaining a ord for a (in /urope) non4e-istent plant" All
the (uipers of this orld cannot change that"
As a parting shot, #hompson gi.es this along% &If you all ant to e-plore the
scholarly dar9 ages% this is here to loo9"* Iust the opposite% in the +iddle Ages,
scholarship reputedly ent by authority, hich is 1eorge #hompson$s method, and
the Aryan In.asion method" After the /nlightenment, the scholarly method re,uired
e.idence, hich is my method"
+eanhile, the list master implored me at once to let it all pass" On 12 September,
he sent me a message under the all too clear header% &pls do not respond to that
RISA msg*%
&Eear (oenraad%
VOut of the best interest of the RISA4O listser.e, please do not respond to
that msg, acrimonious as it as" >ou are, of course, more than elcome respond oD
list"
Vyours, Eeepa9, RISA4O admin*
I complied, but must say I ha.e not been rearded" #hough I didn$t react at all, I
as shon the door somehat later" <y contrast, I ha.e no information that the
oDending list member, 1eorge #hompson, as reprimanded in any meaningful ay"
Be didn$t apologiCe on4 or oD4list" So no, at least, I am at liberty to di.ulge hat
happened"
0osted by (oenraad /lst at L%2W A+ P
Oabels% /lst X (oenraad, RISA4list, Sarma X Eeepa9, #hompson X 1eorge
14 comments:
P
mayur said"""
Eear Er" /lst, than9s for sharing details of intellectual dishonesty shon by so called
Veminent historiansV" I had .ague idea about them from your ritings but it is much
more clear no about ho they operate"
'hat I dont understand is, hy are you in.ol.ed ith this guys at all) I mean hy to
gi.e these guys legitimacy by in.ol.ing your self ith such bunch of lairs) I thin9 it
ould be much better if you your self (or some one li9e minded) can start an
organiCation or at least an online list that ould bring real historian together on
AI#POI# and many other related topics, but at the same by including only those ho
at least doubt the AI# and ould be illing to debate on hard e.idence and ithout
calling names"
I do understand that it is absolutely necessary to allo freedom of e-pression in
open forums but currently groups li9e AAR and lists li9e RISA are not alloing
honest people li9e you to debate at all by calling you names and banning your
entries (and no 9ic9ing you out of their organiCation altogether7) and may be there
are others ho do doubt AI# but do not dare to e-press themsel.es out of fear" Such
a platform ill allo honest historians to debate ithout fearing e-pulsion or
outcasting by so called Veminent historiansV"
April H0, 2012 L%02 A+ P
PP
said"""
Vthe a.oed racist 1eorge #hompsonV
?ot that this should be the last ord on the matter, but it is orth mentioning that
1eorge #hompson is himself half4Asian, his mother being Iapanese (I don2t 9no him
myself, but e ha.e a mutual friend)"
I thin9 indologists should cool it a bit ith these mutual accusations of racism" #he
ord has ceased to be .ery meaningful at this point, as incidents li9e this suggest"
April H0, 2012 5%W5 0+ P
PP
+ayur 0une9ar said"""
YAshamitra, Aust because some one is half Asian doesn2t mean he cant not
indulging in racism" and by the ay, Iapanese are not better then V'hiteV
esterners hen it comes to racist beha.ior in the past and e.en today they are not
ready to accept genocides committed by their armies during ''2"
/.en if #hompson ould ha.e been 100Z VAsianV it ont matter to me at least, as I
thin9 it is suScient to call some one racist regardless of his on race if that person
has shon racist tendencies by his acts or ritings 7
+ay 1, 2012 3%10 A+ P
PP
Ray Oightning said"""
:alling 0rof" #hompson a racist is a stretch, and that ma9es all this email e-change
loo9 e-tremely silly"
<ut the point of (rishna being a tribal god, and thus blac9 in colour is e,ually silly"
:an it e,ually be deduced that 1anesh is a god of elephant4loo9ing people ) Or that
ancient Indian tribes had multiple hands and legs, hich they someho lost o.er
time )
Indian god 8gures are symbolic representations of abstract ideas 4 philosophical,
spiritual and sometimes simply cultural" It is funny to see these distinguished4
loo9ing academic people indulging themsel.es in such silly banter, and reading too
much beteen the lines"
Bere is Ee.dutt 0atnai9, hen he e-plains hy !isnhu is dar9 and hy Shi.a is
hite, and a myriad other tid4bits about Indian gods"
http%PPde.dutt"comParticlesPindian4mythologyPblac94gods4and4hite4gods"html
<y the ay, somebody as mentioning earlier something about being a mi-ed4race
.s" racism" I thin9 .ery fe people today are racist (belie.ing in supremacy of one
race o.er the other)" <ut it is easy to thin9 about a race angle o.er any problem
(this is usually the least informati.e angle)" <eing a mi-ed4race person actually
forces somebody to thin9 more about these issues, because such a person cannot
help thin9ing about these issues hile groing up" #his sometimes might cloud their
Audgement on other unrelated issues"
+ay 2, 2012 12%10 A+ P
P
?aras said"""
YRay Oightning,
>our point about the abstractness of ideas of 1ods is true" It is also true that the
hole premise is silly beyond ords"
Boe.er, colour has been used in Indian history riting to e,uate 1ods ith tribals,
Era.idians and Aryans" /.en today e 8nd VscholarsV asserting that Shi.a is a
Era.idian 1od, perhaps !ishnu is too, hile Indra, +ithra, !aruna are de8nitely
Aryan7 Indra, the destroyer of forts (purandar) indicates the Aryan destruction of
forts in the Barappan ci.iliCation etc"
#he mystical meaning of purandar is ,uite diDerent" In (undalini >oga, the aspirant
comes across many obstacles and VbuDersV hich hePshe destroys ith help from
Indra, one hisPher ay up the spinal cord to the Sahasraara :ha9ra7
Another e-ample is Shi.a, the Eigambar (S9y4clad)" #he surface meaning is that of a
na9ed man" Boe.er, mystically it means he is beyond the H bodies (0hysical,
Astral and :ausal)"
I 8nd it impossible to 9no hat is metaphor and hat is literal, that is the
deliberate mystery of ancient Indian scriptures" It is meant to separate the truth4
see9ers from the spiritually ignorant"
+ay 2, 2012 1%15 A+ P
PP
said"""
(<y the ay, somebody as mentioning earlier something about being a mi-ed4race
.s" racism" I thin9 .ery fe people today are racist (belie.ing in supremacy of one
race o.er the other)" <ut it is easy to thin9 about a race angle o.er any problem
(this is usually the least informati.e angle)""")
I as returning to say something about this, but you ha.e put it so perfectly and
sanely that I don2t ha.e much more to say on this particular" <ut I ill add this% the
fre,uency of accusations of racism made against indologists unmista9ably shos
that many of their detractors ha.e ne.er e.en met an indologist, and ha.e no idea
of ho they li.e their li.es" Indologists are generally .ery cosmopolitan people, and
modern indology is a .ery cosmopolitan 8eld" ?on4Indian indologists all ha.e close
and constant contact ith Indian colleagues and friends" +any of them, li9e myself,
are married to Indians, and others ha.e innumerable close friendships ith Indians
they ha.e 9non and or9ed ith o.er decades of coming fre,uently to India and
staying here for long periods (I ha.e been li.ing here constantly for si- years, for
e-ample)" #his is not the beha.ious of racists" Racists are people ho belie.e that
other races are by their essential nature inferior to their on" #he most signi8cant
characteristic of racists is that they do not 9no, and do not ant to 9no, the
people they hate" #hey stic9 to their on communities" #o say that people ho
de.ote their li.es to the study of cultures and languages that are .ery diDerent from
their on, and .ery diScult for outsiders to understand, do so because they ant to
destroy and belittle them 44 people ho ma9e such an accusation unmista9ably
betray a paranoid narromindedness that cannot fathom hat could moti.ate
anyone to ta9e an interest in a culture other than his on, and can only imagine
that those moti.ations must be hostile" #here are many, many reasons to criticiCe
indology, and indology has bene8ted enormously from such criti,ues in recent
years" <ut racism is a .ery, .eery serious charge, and those ho bring it against
indologists rarely 9no hat they are tal9ing about, or hen they do, they are
indulging in the 9ind of dishonest character assassination that /lst fre,uently
identi8es as a fa.ourite tactic of communists"
+ay 2, 2012 3%3= 0+ P
PP
said"""
(I 8nd it impossible to 9no hat is metaphor and hat is literal, that is the
deliberate mystery of ancient Indian scriptures" It is meant to separate the truth4
see9ers from the spiritually ignorant")
#a9ing you at your ord, you sho a really admirable honesty in identifying yourself
as a member of the second group" Boe.er, I belie.e that this is a false dichotomy%
all truth4see9ers are ignorant, and they 9no it, otherise they ould not be
see9ing" #he ,uest for truth generally ta9es us .ery far from here e started, and
from hat e originally belie.e" It2s a .ery diScult path, the path that leads aay
from here you began, and I thin9 it2s a .ery honourable path as ell, e.en though
those ho tra.el on it usually 8nd that ,uestions only lead on to more ,uestions,
mystery to more mystery" <ut it is precisly that deepening and e.er receding
mystery, of course, that ma9e this path orth al9ing, and not the self4satis8ed
con.iction that one 9nos the truth 44 a con.iction that only shos that the person
has ceased to thin9, if he e.er thought in the 8rst place" #he true dichotomy is
beteen people ho thin9 they 9no, and people ho 9no that they don2t 9no,
as a certain ancient muni (hose name escapes me at the moment) once said" So
hail fello ell met"
+ay 2, 2012 U%2U 0+ P
P
?aras said"""
V#o say that people ho de.ote their li.es to the study of cultures and languages
that are .ery diDerent from their on, and .ery diScult for outsiders to understand,
do so because they ant to destroy and belittle them 44
As far as I understand, Ren[ Eubois, +a- +uller, Sir +ortimer 'heeler and Sir Iohn
+arshall ere the founders of the in.asionist school" #hey spent considerable
amount of time establishing this school, being in India, studying Sans9rit and so on"
I consider in.asionism to be a largely colonialist history riting" 'hether these
eminences ere racist or not, I cannot say" <ut the distortion of history that they
did, is hat people li9e Er" /lst, /din <ryant and +ichael Eanino are trying to undo"
:laims of Vno racismV has .ery little to do ith attitude to history riting and its
politics" A nature lo.er might spend enormous amount of time studying .arious
types of sna9es, and use them ultimately to e-tract .enom, sna9e s9in etc" #hese
eminences ere also in.ol.ed in a similar endea.our"
+ay 2, 2012 11%03 0+ P
PP
said"""
JA nature lo.er might spend enormous amount of time studying .arious types of
sna9es, and use them ultimately to e-tract .enom, sna9e s9in etc" #hese eminences
ere also in.ol.ed in a similar endea.our"K
#his is a cle.er little piece of ordplay, and it goes no deeper than ords" Mor an
indologist, the te-ts he reads spea9 of a orld as real as his ne-t4door colleague
0radip and his ife Arti" And he is not secretly planning to s9in them and e-tract
their .enom" #his is the paranoia of ignorance"
+ay H, 2012 3%21 A+ P
P
?aras said"""
YAshamitra,
#he lady doth protest too much"
All you can say is your critics are ignorant, spiritually or otherise" Ad Bominem
attac9s are not orthy of a serious scholar, and do not deser.e further response"
+ay H, 2012 3%W5 A+ P
PP
said"""
Ah dear, here2s another of these ords that used to mean something speci8c but
doesn2t mean much anymore" Iust as VgenocideV has come to mean basically Vthe
9illing of more than one person beonging to a single social group hoe.er de8nedV,
and VracismV has come to mean no more than Vanything e.en remotely lin9able to
the idea of ethnicity in the actions or ords of someone I don2t li9e and ant to
silenceV, so Vad hominem argumentV no means Vany spirited argument in hich
my on foolishness is demonstrated to meV" #his is not hat the term meant, once
upon a time, hen it meant something" <ut hat2s the use"
+ay H, 2012 U%03 0+ P
P
?irAhar00L said"""
#his blog also or9s on facts and truthfulness"
Ba.e a good time"
http%PPne4indology"blogspot"comP)mT1
+ay 5, 2012 H%W2 A+ P
P
#rail of Eharma said"""
(oenraad /lst Ai,
#han9s for sharing this info" Mor Indians it is often astonishing ho much interest
some 'esterners are ta9ing in deconstructing Binduism using all sorts of angles 4
race, se-uality, oppression, etc"
+ay 13, 2012 =%10 A+ P
P
Eaniel +ohanpersad said"""
Ash.amitra, you are acting li9e someone stepped on your foot by using the ord
racist to describe a fello indologist"
+ay 1U, 2012 =%H1 0+
http%PP9oenraadelst"blogspot"inP2012P0WPgeorge4thompson4as4case4study4in4
racist"html