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UNITED STATES SENATE
Select Committee on E t h i c s

IN RE: ENSIGN INQUIRY
CONFIDENTIAL DEPOSITION OF
Wednesday, March 16, 2011
Hart Senate O f f i c e B u i l d i n g
S u i t e 220
REPORTED BY:

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Deposition of c a l l e d f o r
examination pursuant t o n o t i c e of d e p o s i t i o n , on
Wednesday, March 16, 2011, i n Washington, DC, a t the
Senate Select Committee on E t h i c s , Hart Senate
O f f i c e B u i l d i n g , S u i t e 220, at 10:04 a.m., before
a Notary Public w i t h i n and f o r the
D i s t r i c t of Columbia, when were present on b e h a l f of
the r e s p e c t i v e p a r t i e s :
ESQ.
ESQ.
ESQ.
Gates LLP
1601 K S t r e e t , NW
Washington, DC 20006-1600
202-778-9000
On behalf of Senate E t h i c s Committee
-continued--
SSCE0003562
3
1 APPEARANCES
2

ESQ.
ESQ.
ESQ.
8 United States Senate Select
9 Committee on E t h i c s
10 220 Hart Senate O f f i c e B u i l d i n g
11 Washington, DC 20510
12 202-224-2981
13 gov
14 . gov
15 . gov
16 gov
gov
18 On behalf of Senate E t h i c s Committee
19

21
22
23
24
2 5 --continued--
26
-SSCE0003563
1 APPEARANCES (continued):
2
4 United States Senate Select
5 Committee E t h i c s
6 22 0 Hart Senate O f f i c e B u i l d i n g
7 Washington, DC 2 0510

9 On behalf of Senate E t h i c s Committee
10
ESQ.
13 Las Vegas, Nevada 2 0001

15 On Behalf of the Witness
16
17
18
19
20
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22
23
24
25

5
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2
4 was c a l l e d as a witness and, having f i r s t been d u l y
5 sworn, was examined and t e s t i f i e d as f o l l o w s :
6 EXAMINATION
BY
8 Q Good morning.
9 A Good morning.
10 Q The f i r s t order of business i n any
11 d e p o s i t i o n i n the United States Senate before any
12 committee i s t o advise you, the witness, of c e r t a i n
13 r i g h t s and o b l i g a t i o n s . This i s n ' t c r a f t e d j u s t f o r
14 you. This i s f o r every witness, so t h a t you
15 understand t h a t .
16 The Senate Select Committee on E t h i c s has
17 summoned you here today f o r the d e p o s i t i o n as a
18 witness i n connection w i t h the committee's
19 p r e l i m i n a r y i n q u i r y concerning Senator
2 0 John Ensign.
21. Our questions and your answers w i l l be
22 recorded by the c o u r t r e p o r t e r , and because t h i s i s
23 a d e p o s i t i o n before a l e g i s l a t i v e branch agency,
24 your statements today are s u b j e c t t o the False
25 Statements S t a t u t e , which i s Section 1001 of
26
SSCE0003565
6
1 T i t l e X V I I I of the United States Code. And t h a t i s
2 a f e l o n y f o r g i v i n g a f a l s e statement t o a
3 l e g i s l a t i v e committee.
4 A d d i t i o n a l l y - , because t h i s i s a sworn
5 d e p o s i t i o n , your statements are a l s o subject t o the
6 p e n a l t y of p e r j u r y , b o t h under Section of the
7 Supplementary. Procedural Rules of the Select
8 Committee on E t h i c s , as w e l l as Section 1621 of
9 T i t l e X V I I I of the United States Code, as w e l l as
10 the O b s t r u c t i o n of J u s t i c e and the O b s t r u c t i o n of
11 Congress S t a t u t e , which i s 18 USC Section 1505.
12 Thus, you, nor any witness, may make any
13 i n t e n t i o n a l l y f a l s e statements or knowingly mislead
14 the committee through your answers today.
15 Also, I want t o l e t you know about some
16 r u l e s regarding the proceeding. Supplementary
17 Procedural Rule 8 d i c t a t e s s t r i c t on
18 our p a r t regarding the f a c t of t h i s d e p o s i t i o n and
19 a l l our statements made here today.
2 0 This r u l e does not govern your own
21 discussions of t h i s i n t e r v i e w . However, i t i s our
2 2 e x p e c t a t i o n and hope t h a t no witness w i l l e i t h e r
23 t a i l o r or coordinate h i s or her testimony based on
24 an e a r l i e r d e p o s i t i o n , and a l s o t h a t you would
2 5 r e f r a i n from d i s c u s s i n g your -- our questions and
26
-SSCE0003566
7
1 your answers w i t h anyone other than your a t t o r n e y .
2 Do you understand t h a t ?
3 A Yes.
4 Q A d d i t i o n a l l y , pursuant t o Supplementary
5 Procedural Rule 6, you are e n t i t l e d t o the
6 o p p o r t u n i t y t o inspect the t r a n s c r i p t of your
7 d e p o s i t i o n i n the committee's o f f i c e s and request
8 t h a t t r a n s c r i p t i o n e r r o r s be c o r r e c t e d . And o n l y
9 t r a n s c r i p t i o n e r r o r s . You can't change the
10 substance, obviously, of the d e p o s i t i o n .
11 I f you wish t o do t h i s , please have your
12 a t t o r n e y contact us. And as I p r e v i o u s l y advised
13 your a t t o r n e y , they should be promptly a v a i l a b l e .
14 We have discussed t h a t , and
15 i t ' s my understanding t h a t i s
16 probably now a v a i l a b l e f o r review.
18 And I would then hope t h a t
tomorrow by 9:00 t h a t
would be
That would be our
22 e x p e c t a t i o n .
2 3 So i f we come up a t i f
we have
26
SSCE0003567
8
1 We'll arrange
2 accommodations
3 And we would come t o
4 o f f i c e ?


8 Q F i n a l l y , i f a t any time you want t o take a
9 break, e i t h e r f o r j u s t bathroom purposes or t o t a l k
10 w i t h your a t t o r n e y , whatever, please l e t us know.
11 But we would p r e f e r i t i f you d i d not take a break
12 w h i l e a question i s pending.
13 We are not here and not i n the business of
14 t r y i n g t o , as they say i n the trade of c r i m i n a l
15 j u s t i c e , we're not t r y i n g t o set any p e r j u r y t r a p s
16 or t r i p up a witness. We want you t o have as much
17 i n f o r m a t i o n as p o s s i b l e and as much time as p o s s i b l e
18 t o answer questions and t h o u g h t f u l l y r e f l e c t upon
19 your answer before answering.
2 0 Do you understand a l l of t h i s ?
21 A I do.
22 ( E x h i b i t i d e n t i f i e d . )

24 Q I ' l l now show you what's been marked as
25 E x h i b i t w i t h today's date f o r today's
26
SSCE0003568
9
1 I ' d ask you t o review t h a t document
2 and c o n f i r m f o r us t h a t i t i s a n o t i c e t h a t we sent
3 t o you t o appear today.
4 A Yes, i t i s .
5 Q Okay. And I t h i n k the best way t o proceed
6 would be t o s t a r t w i t h j u s t general background
7 i n f o r m a t i o n , i f you would, please, s i r .
8 A
9 Q I f you t e l l us your date of b i r t h .
11 Q And can you t e l l us a l i t t l e something
12 about your educational background a f t e r high school?
15 Q Okay. I n which state?
26
SSCE0003569
A

THE Yeah, I have t o stop and
t h i n k about
11
-SSCE0003572
13
2 Q okay. And are you saying

4 A
Okay.
8 A To the best of my r e c o l l e c t i o n , yes.
Okay.



14 A l l r i g h t . I t h i n k we're going t o d r i v e
15 the c o u r t r e p o r t e r crazy i f we t a l k over each other.
16 A I'm sorry, I ' l l w a i t u n t i l you f i n i s h
17 before --
18 Q And I ' l l wait u n t i l you f i n i s h .
19 A Okay.
you,

26
-SSCE0003574
15
-SSCE0003575
17
1 Q Now, I c a l l e d i t a ledger, but i t ' s been
2 described t o me your by
3 as a check r e g i s t e r .
4 A
5 Q I s t h a t a f a i r c h a r a c t e r i z a t i o n of what

7 A I'm seeing i t f o r the f i r s t time. But
8 yes, okay.
9 Q So you are seeing t h i s f o r the f i r s t time?
10 A Yeah, l e t ' s Well, a c t u a l l y
11 showed me a copy of t h i s yesterday.
12 Q Okay. And i n l o o k i n g through t h a t , e i t h e r
13 yesterday or today, i s i t your impression t h a t t h i s
14 document f a i r l y or a c c u r a t e l y r e f l e c t s c r e d i t s ,
15 d e b i t s and the balance of the Ensign
16 A Yes.
17 Q Okay. I'm going t o ask you t o d i r e c t your
18 a t t e n t i o n t o c e r t a i n disbursements. I f y o u could go
19 t o page 4. And when I'm r e f e r e n c i n g page 4, I'm
2 0 r e f e r e n c i n g they're c a l l e d Bates stamps a t the
21 bottom of the page. I t says
22 A Okay.
2 3 Q So page 4. And t h a t ' s i f you look down,
24 check -~ where i t says "check number," t h a t column,
2 5 i t ' s 113 9, check number 113 9.
26
SSCE0003578
8 Do you see t h a t ?
9 A Yes, I do.
13 A i t does.
14 Q Okay. And a l s o on the same page, i f you
15 look a t -- i t ' s e n t r y number 25, but here t h a t would
16 be -- I ' l l j u s t give you the check number -- 1133
for
A Yes.
Again,
2 2 A Yes.
And who are
26
SSCE0003579
20
1 Q Okay. And t h a t was i n the amount of
3 A
4 Q A l l r i g h t . On the same page, e n t r y number
for


6 check number 1135.
7 A Uh-huh.
8 Q I t shows a disbursement on
10

t h a t c o r r e c t ?
11 A Yes.
12 Q And do you t h i n k t h a t t h a t ' s a c c u r a t e l y
13 r e p r e s e n t i n g a disbursement t h a t was d i r e c t e d by you
14 i n t h a t month --
15 A Yes.
yes.
19 A Correct.
20 I'm assuming and you c o r r e c t me i f I'm
wrong --

2 5 assumption?
26
SSCE0003580
21
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16 .
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Yes.
And who are they,
A
Q
please?
A
Q Okay. Now, these are
are Senator s

A That i s c o r r e c t .
Q Can you e x p l a i n why the disbursements f o r
Senator Ensign exceeded the
disbursements made t o |
by such a wide margin?
A Yes, I can.
Q I appreciate t h a t .
Q And i n way,
be a f a i r statement?
A Well, i n terms of
Would t h a t
SSCE0003581
Senator Ensign,
11 A I'm assuming i t ' s c o r r e c t , yes.
12 Q Okay. Assume f o r the purposes of today's
13 proceeding t h a t i t i s .
14 A Yes.
15 Q And assume t h a t the records r e f l e c t t h a t

18 A What year was t h a t ?
2 0 A
21 Q Would you l i k e t o see the records? We can
22 show them t o you.
2 3 A t h a t ' s a l l r i g h t . That's okay.
Q And i f you assume t h a t i n
26
SSCE0003582
"I
23
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A
Q Okay. And then assume, i f you would, t h a t
Now, we know --we know t h a t obviously he
became a United States Senator i n 2 000 and t h a t he
was running f o r r e e l e c t i o n i n 2005 and was r e e l e c t e d
i n 2006. Just g i v i n g you t h a t p u b l i c s e r v i c e

THE WITNESS:
SSCE0003583
25
1 A
2

3 A That is correct.
Q
Okay. I'd ask you to turn to page 8. On

5 page 8, line 44, and this is going to be a bit of a

6 challenge, but it's check number 1245.

7 A

8 Q
Oh, no, that's not correct. Just a

9 minute. I'm sorry. Check number 1248.

10 A John

11 Q Right. And this is

12 okay?

13 A Okay.

14 Q
In reviewing this, does this confirm for

15 you that there was a disbursement made in MIN

16 John and
17

18 A Yes. Yes, absolutely correct.

19 Q
I'm going to ask you on just a couple more

20 pages here. Page number 14.

21 A Okay.

22 Q
Check number 1368, which is entry 10, but

23 you probably can't see that number.

24 A Yes, I see it.

25
26
26
-SSCE0003586
1 Senator Ensign

2 A Uh-huh.

3 Q On
4
5

6 A Yes, it does.
7
8

9 A Yes.

10 Q
Thank you. Going now to page 19, entry 5.

11 And it's check number 1480. Does this confirm for

12 you that on
13

14 A Yes.

15 Q Okay. Thank you We have -- we

16 understand, and we've already discussed this, that

17 in
18
19
20
21
22
23

24 A
25
26
27
SSCE0003587
1
2
3
4

5 A Yes, yeah.
6
7
8
9

10 A No.
11
12
13
14
15

16 A No, absolutely not.

17
Q
Okay. All right. 111111.11111111111111111
18
19

20 A Am I aware?

21
Q
Uh-huh.
22 A Yes.

23
Q
Okay. And I'm going to show you what's

24 been marked as 1111 Exhibit Number 3 for today's

25 purposes.
26
28
-SSCE0003588
5
6
7
8
9
A It does.
Q Okay.
A Uh-huh.
15
16
17 A Sure.
18
19
20
21
22 A That is correct.
23
24
25
26
10
11
12
13
14
(Exhibit 11[3 identified.)
BY
Have you seen this document before?
A No.
-SSCE0003589
29
1
2
3
4
1
2
3
A
5 Q Okay.
6
7 A
8
9
Q
10 A
11 Q
12 A
13
14 Q
15
16 A
17
18 Q Right.
19 A
20 Q
21
22 A
23
24 Q
Very good. The next one that I'd ask you
25 about in
26
30
IMM-SSCE0003590
1
2
3
4
A
5 Q And then we see
6
7 A
8
9 Q Okay. And
10 A
11 Q Okay.
12 A
13 Q And
14 A
15
16 A Yes.
17 Q And
18 A
19
20 A
21 Q Thank you.
22
23
24 A
25
26
31
-SSCE0003591
2 Q Turning to page we see
3
It's on the
4 second line.
5 A
6
7
8
9 Q Okay. We see
10
11 A Yeah,
12
13
14
15 Q Are you still working
16 A
17 Q Okay.
18 A
19
Q
20 A
21 Q
22 A Yes.
23 Q
24 A Forever.
25 Q
26
32
1111.-SSCE0003592
1
2
3
4
A
5 A Yes.
6
7 A
8
9
10 A
11
12
13 A Who?
14
15 A
16 Q
Yeah, sorry.
17 A
18 Q
I'm sorry,
19 A
20
21 A Yes, correct, I'm sorry.
22 Q
So why was a disbursement of do you
23 know?
24 A Just a little Christmas gift.
25 Q
Okay.
26
33
-SSCE0003593
A

A Yes.

Q Okay.
5

A
7

A Uh-huh.
9

10

A
11

12

THE WITNESS:

13 BY
14

15 A
16

17 A I'm sorry, yes.

18

19 A

20 Q
And turning the page, we go to

21
There's, on the second line next to -- third column

22 in is reference to a

23 A
24
25
26
IMIIIII-SSCE0003594
1
2

3 A
4

5 Q
I see, okay.

6 A
7
8

9 A
10

11 A

12 Q
okay.

13 A Yes.
14
15

16 A

17 Q
Turning the page, in there is a

18 reference to -- on the second line to a

19

20 A
21

22
Let's see, where is that number?

23 Q
It's column 8, second one down, and the

24 date of the check appears to have been on

25 A Oh, yeah.
26
35
1

2 A That's correct.
3

4 A That is correct.
6
7

8 Q
Okay. Thank you. Turning the page to
9

10 A Where is it?

11 Q
It is on the first column, number.-- I

12
mean the first line, the 15th column.

13 A Where?

14
: You're on the wrong page.

15 BY

16 Q
For

17 A Oh, that's back here. Hold on.

18
don't recall. I really don't recall.

19 Q
Okay. Turning the page, in looking

20
at the column number 1, going down, the second line,
21

22
Do you recall why?

23 A
24
25
26
36
-SSCE0003596
And that's in column number 9.
A
A
Okay. And two over -- one over,
A
A Yes.
A
Q Okay. And that would be 11111 So now
we're going back to
1
2
3
4

5
Q
Okay. Also there is a check to a
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22

23 A

24 Q
One more page. Do you see a check of

25 IIIIIIto the last column of the first line,

26
37
-SSCE0003597
1
2
3

4 BY

5
Q
Correct, okay. And also, there is a check

6 to It's on the second line,

7 column 9.

8 A
9

10 Q I note that it's next to again

11 so it's probably

12 A

13 Q And then there is a check to

14

15 A
16

17
Q
Okay. Going to the next year -- or the

18 previous year, the next page, there is a check

19 to You can see it -- this

20 is done a little differently than the previous

21 pages. In the first column --

22 A
23
24
25
26
38
-SSCE0003598
1
Q
Okay. Going back, we're going to turn

2 several pages now to We're going to skip

3 go to

4 A This page (indicating)?

5
Q
No, keep going. We're going earlier, to
6

7 A Which one do I have? Oh, wait a minute.

8 Here we go.

9
Q
Yes. We're not asking you, again, about

10 people you've already identified. We're just trying

11 to identify people, not

12 A That's fine.

13
Q
-- the dollar amounts.

14 In there is a check,
15

16 I'm sorry, we're

17 looking at the year now?

18 : That's correct.

19 I'm sorry, it's 111111 not

20

21 THE WITNESS:
22

23 BY

24
Q
We're going to go back one more year, and

25 this is the last year that we have records for,

26
39
-SSCE0003599
40

And you can see a total of

2
3
A
Okay. Thank you.
6
7
9
10
11
12
13
14
15

16 A
17

18 Q
Okay. Now we're coming to -- we're

19 changing the subject now, so if this is a time you'd

20 like to take a break, let me know, or if you want to

21 go forward.

22 A I don't need a break.

23 Q
Okay. Do you know

24 A Yes, I do.

25 Q
And how long have you met -- known
26
-SSCE0003600
1

2 A Over 20 years.

3
Q
How did you first come to meet

4 A John
5
6
7
8

9 A

10
Q

11 A
12
13
14

15 A I think John must have introduced

16 John

17
Q
Do you know how John knew

18 A I think

19 I think. Again, I think. Probably shouldn't say.

20 I think. I'm not --

21
Q

22 A I'm not sure how they met.

23
Q
Understood. But you believe that it may

24 have been -- you don't have to be absolutely certain

25 about things like that.

26
41
MINSSCE0003601
1 A I believe

2 I believe.

3
Q
Did -- the time that you met -- did

4 you meet around the same time?

5 A I don't recall that, no.

6
Q
You recall meeting first?

7 A Yes.

8
Q
In connection with. 11
9

10 A
11
12
13
14
15

16 A Right, that type of thing.

17
Q
soM came to your home over 20 years ago?

18 A That's right.

19
Q

20 A Exactly.

21
Q
Did there come a time and you believe

22 it was John who introduced". to you?

23 A Oh, sure.

24 Q Okay. And prior to the events that

25 brought us here today, how often would you see

26
-SSCE0003602
43

1 over the years?

2 A
3
4

5 Q
Did you consider to be a

6 friend of yours over the years?

7 A
8

10 Q
Okay. And do you know, looking back,

11 apart from the time when

12
13
14

15 A
Not for many year -- oh, no. It was

16
many, many years after that. I don't remember how

17
many years, it was a long time after that. I didn't

18
see them for years.

19
Q
Well, maybe -- maybe it would be best if

20
we just sort of go back and tell it in a narrative

21
fashion so that I'm not sitting here pelting you

22 with questions.

23 A Okay.

24 Q
But you just tell me in your own words

25
what you recall about first getting to know 11111
26
.1.111SSCE0003603
1
2

3 A
4
5

6
Q
What's your best recollection as to when

7 Illmoved to Las Vegas, around when?

8 A I think it was after but I -- I

9 really don't know. I can't recall the year.

10
Q
Do you think it was after the first Senate

11 victory, like

12 A Yeah, I would think so, around that time

13 probably.

14
Q
All right.

15 A If I remember.

16 Q
So go ahead. I didn't mean to interrupt

17 you.
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
44
1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 -SSCE00036 04
1
2

3 Q Okay. Did live in the same

4 community, the same approximate location?

5 A I don't know where house was. I

6 don't know. It was same area of the Las Vegas

7 valley. It was over there in the southwest area.

But I -- I've never been in home, and I'm

9 not -- I couldn't tell you where it was.

10
Q
Have the ever been at your

11 A No.

12
Q
Okay. And you've never been at
13

14 A No.

15 Q
Okay.
16

17 A Always.

18 Q
Okay.

19 A
20

21
Q
Okay. And so now let's work it up to
22

23 A Okay.
24
25
26
45
-SSCE0003605
A

Yes.

And do you remember when that was?

I don't.
4
5

A I don't remember.
Okay.
8
9

10

A Yes. I remember hearing that, yes.

11
12
13

14 A I really don't recall what travel

15 schedule was.

16 Q
Well --

17 A I know what John's schedule is.

18
19
20
21

22 A
23
24
25
26
-SSCE0003606
SSCE0003607
1

2
1 1.1111.1.1

3 A
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24

25 to his state --
26
Understood.
A Okay.
But just in terms of his coming back home
A Absolutely. To my knowledge.
A
A No.
To your knowledge, okay. When you say
So your understanding is --
A
1 A Yes.
-- as a representative of the state --

3 A
4
5
7

8 A Usually on Thursday night or Friday.

9 Depends on the vote schedule, I guess.

10 Q
Sure.

11 A
12
13
14
15
16

17 A I have no knowledge of that.

18 Q
Okay.
19
20
21

22 A No. It wasn't that many. It wasn't that

23 often.

24 Q
Okay.
25
26
48
111111111-SSCE0003608
49
1
2
3

A
Q All right.
A Yes, we would.
-- and watch them play golf or other teams
they were on?
A Yes, yes.
Okay.
then, during those weekday visits?
19 Q
Okay.
20
21
22
23 A I was not.
24
Q
When did you first become aware of it?
25 A I read about it in the paper.
26
-SSCE0003609
5
6
7
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10
11
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18
1
Q
Okay.
2

3 A No, I was not.

4
Q
-- early on?

5 A No, we were not.

6 Q
Okay. And I know you've said no, and that

7 covers everything.

8 A Okay. No.

9
Q
But I'm going to just ask you specifically

10 with respect to some things.

11 A Absolutely, I appreciate that.

12
13
14
15

16 A No, I was not, until I read it in the

17 paper.

18 Q
Okay. And after reading it in the paper,

19 did you have any discussion with John about it?

20 A I did not.

21 Q
Okay.
22
23

24 A I do not..

25 Q All right.
26
50
-SSCE000361 0

2 A I do not.
7 A No.
8 Q To your knowledge, again, do you know from
9 whence these funds would have come?
10 A No, I do not.
15 A No, I do not.
16 Q And you don't obviously, then, know where
17 those funds would have come from?
A I do not.
22 A No, I do not.
2 3 Q And again, that means you also do not know
24 from where those funds came, i f that payment was
2 5 made?
26

53
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I do
Is that Okay.
A I do
Q And you also.--
A I am
Q You also do not know where the funds came
from, i f that payment was made; i s that correct?
A I do
Okay.
I thought that was very early

THE WITNESS: No, I am not,
BY
Q Okay.

1 A Yes, i t does.
2 Q And why does i t surprise you?
3 A Just -- I'm j u s t surprised.

A Sure, we'll provide
We'll make a l l that
available, as stated yesterday, when we receive the
specific l i s t i n g from you as to everything.
Yes, absolutely. Thank you.

56
57

59
-SSCE0003620

62
SSCE0003622
63
7 A Yeah, I think
9 A A l l t o l d , yeah, I would think so. Just a
10 guess.
11 I understand, I understand.
12 A A l l r i g h t .
2 0 A Absolutely not.
Okay.
24 A To my knowledge.
26
-SSCE0003624

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A To my knowledge.
Q Okay. Understood?
Let f i n i s h .
We've been going f o r over an
hour. I'm going to take about a break.
THE WITNESS: Fine.

BY
Q We're back on the record.
A No, I do not
Q
SSCE0003625
SSCE0003626

SSCE0003628
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A I don't r e c a l l any conversation. I don't
r e c a l l ever meeting
Q
A I do
Q Let me t r y to refresh your
r e c o l l e c t i o n .
A Just the name
Q
No, I do not
Q
SSCE0003629
I: Can you s p e l l that?
BY
I r e a l l y don't know.
No, I did not know. I'm not f a m i l i a r with
I don't r e c a l l i t . I don't r e c a l l i t .
Could i t have happened?
I guess i t could have, but I don't r e c a l l .
Okay.
I've got p r e t t y good r e c a l l .
I believe you do.
SSCE0003630
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recollection?
A
Q But re not saying
doesn't mean i t didn't happen?
A No, i t may have happened.
Q I t ' s j u s t you don't r e c a l l .
A I don't r e c a l l .
A l l r i g h t .
that
SSCE0003632
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26
Q And d i d you l a t e r come to learn that that
had been the case?
A No.
Q So you're hearing that f o r the f i r s t time
now?
A Just today.
Q
A I t h i n k so
Q
SSCE0003635
76
2 3 Q Right.
24 A And, you know, possibly they were there.
25 I don't r e c a l l . But that would have been -- other
26
-SSCE0003636
77
1 than that, there was no other time that I can
2 remember seeing
3 Q A l l Did you know
4 Does that name mean anything to you?
A No.
6 Q Okay. And --
7 A
9
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26
A No.
Q
so that means you've never discussed t h i s matter
A
Q - - a t a l l with any of those
that correct?
A Absolutely not, no.

-SSCE0003637
78
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Yes, absolutely-
Okay.
As I r e c a l l , that's correct.
Okay.
A

Q Okay. And you remember when that would
have been?
A I don't.
Q What month?
A No, I don't.
Q
A I would say i t was a f t e r .
Q
SSCE0003639
-SSCE0003640
SSCE0003641
4 A Yes, yes.
8 A I assumed t h a t . I wasn't t o l d that.
9 (Exhibit i d e n t i f i e d . )
BY
11 Q Let me show you what's been marked as
12 for f o r today's proceeding and ask
13 you you have ever seen t h i s before. T e l l me what
14 i t i s and whether you've ever seen i t before.
22 Q Can you scoot that back across to me?
24 Q Let's j u s t -- I'm going to mark o f f the
2 5 second one. I t appears as i f i t was j u s t the same
26
-SSCE0003642
83
1
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26
on both. sheet that came i n from
A Oh, okay. A l l r i g h t .
Q We'll j u s t disregard -- we're j u s t going
to the second one, and we're only dealing
with the top check and what appears to be the back
of that top check.
A Okay. A l l r i g h t .
A l l So I think on the same
page now.
Q Okay. Let me show you some a d d i t i o n a l
documentation, i f I may --
A
Q - - i n hopes that i t w i l l refresh your
r e c o l l e c t i o n about some of the circumstances
surrounding the w r i t i n g of that check.
SSCE0003643
2 (Exhibit
3 Do you have a second copy of
4 that?
Sure
BY
7 Q Have you ever seen these pages before?
8 A No. No, I never have.
9 Q I'm going to ask you to take your time
10 w i t h your counsel to read these sheets.
11 A Okay. A l l r i g h t .
12 Q I f you'd l i k e to take a break and read
13 them i n the other room, you're welcome to do so.
14 A I can go through them quick.
15 Q Okay.
16 (Witness reviewed the document.)
17 Are you a l l done?
18 A A l l done.
19 I f you could j u s t give me
2 0 one second, please.
21 sure, sure. Absolutely.
22 A l l r i g h t , Go ahead.
BY :
26


88
3 A l l r i g h t . I want to put that aside f o r a
4 moment, and that i s Exhibit Number 7.
5 Now going to show you what we have
6 marked f o r today as
7 (Exhibit i d e n t i f i e d . )
BY
13 Of course, sorry.

15 Q And I'm not going ask you to read the
16 e n t i r e journal entry, but I wanted to give you the
17 e n t i r e t y so that you would have the benefit of i t .
18 I f you want to read the journal entry, then
19 we are more than happy to s i t back and wait, that's
2 0 no problem?
Please
22 Okay. Then we'll do t h a t .
You'll read the entry.
2 5 (Witness reviewed the document.)
26
-SSCE0003649
Do you see that?
Uh-huh, yeah.
SSCE0003652
9
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16
17
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21
22
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24
25
26
|: Don't make any comments.
Just wait for the question.
(Exhibit i d e n t i f i e d . )
BY
Q I'm going to show you been marked
as f o r today.
(Witness reviewed the
We've reviewed i t .
BY

Q
-SSCE0003653
4
5
9
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11
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26
(Exhibit i d e n t i f i e d . )
BY
Q And f i n a l l y , I want to show you what i s
marked as f o r today's proceedings.
A Thank you.
(Witness reviewed the

Q
SSCE0003654

SSCE0003659
100
SSCE0003660
101
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22
23
24
25
26
Q How d i d i t come to pass? Did -- j u s t a

A I f I r e c a l l , we -- i t was a phone
discussion. I can't remember.
Q

3
4
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I don't r e c a l l a v i s i t . I do not.
That i s correct, as I best r e c a l l i t .
As you best r e c a l l .

A Not to my knowledge.
Q Okay. And so you --
A I
-SSCE0003662
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
A No, I don't.
(Exhibit i d e n t i f i e d .
BY
Q And going to show you been
marked as for
(Witness reviewed the
Okay.
No.
-- from what you said.
I never did, no.
A

104
SSCE0003665
106
SSCE0003666
107
-SSCE0003667
108
6 Q Understood.
12 A I've never spoken --
15 A None whatsoever.
16 Q I'm s o r r y , f o r the court r e p o r t e r ' s sake.
17 A Sorry.
21 A None --
22 Q None?
23 A Pardon me. None whatsoever, no.
26
-SSCE0003669
2
3
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5
6
7

9
10
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13
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15
16
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22
23
24
25
26
A I d i d not.
Q Before coming here today, you never heard
of t h a t assertion?
A I read something i n the
Q
A
Q
No.
SSCE0003670

1 A No.
2 Q Are you f a m i l i a r w i t h a company named
3 November
4 A No.
9 A No, I d i d not.
13 A I d i d not.
14 Q Do you know the companies A l l e g i a n t A i r
15 and NV Energy?
16 A I know A l l e g i a n t A i r . I mean, I know of
17 the company, and I know, you know, Nevada Power,
18 Nevada Energy. I'm f a m i l i a r w i t h those companies,
19 yes.
24 A No, I was not.
Okay.
26
SSCE0003671
17 A No, I do not.
18 don't we take another
19 break t o decide whether we're close t o
2 0 being done. I t h i n k we are. Thank you.
(Recess.)
BY
2 3 Q We're back on the record. We j u s t have a
24 few more questions.
26
SSCE0003672
113
-SSCE0003673
2
3
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7
8
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22
23
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26
Q Okay. then l e t me do t h i s , j u s t so
t h a t we -- there's no misunderstanding between us or
on the record.
A Uh-huh.
-SSCE0003676
118
SSCE0003679
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26
A Had I had any knowledge they were
a t t e m p t i n g t o do t h a t , you mean?
Yes.
A No, I had none.
Q
A I don't r e c a l l having any of those
conversations, no.
Q What was your a t the time
what damage, i f --
A
-SSCE0003680
121
8 Q
9 A Okay.
10 Q I s there anything t h a t we haven't covered
11 today t h a t counsel or you, would l i k e t o
12 share w i t h us t h a t you t h i n k would a s s i s t us i n t h i s
13 i n q u i r y ?
16 Q And we thank you f o r your time.
17 There i s n o t h i n g e l s e . I t ' s
18 now 1:05.
19 I f we could do a 45-minute
2 0 break and have lunch and then w e ' l l s t a r t a t , l e t ' s
21 say, 2:00.
22 We're o f f the record, thank you.
23 (Whereupon, a t 1:06 the d e p o s i t i o n
24 was concluded.)
25
SSCE0003683
124
1 I HEREBY CERTIFY t h a t I have read t h i s
2 t r a n s c r i p t of my d e p o s i t i o n and t h a t t h i s t r a n s c r i p t
3 a c c u r a t e l y s t a t e s the testimony given by me, w i t h
4 the changes or c o r r e c t i o n s , i f any, as noted.
5
6
X
8
9
10
11 Subscribed and sworn t o before me t h i s day of
12 , 20
13
14
15
16 X
17 Notary Public
18

20
21 My commission expires:
22
23
24

-SSCE0003684
125
1
2
3
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5
6
7
C O N T E N T S
WITNESS EXAMINATION
9
10
11
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13
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15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
E X H I
EXHIBIT NUMBER
i d e n t i f i e d
2 i d e n t i f i e d
3 i d e n t i f i e d
4 i d e n t i f i e d
6 i d e n t i f i e d
7 i d e n t i f i e d
8 i d e n t i f i e d
9 i d e n t i f i e d
i d e n t i f i e d

IDENTIFIED
8
17
29
103
82
84
93
94
89
SSCE0003685