/u/NovaNation21 9/9/14

InterviewwithTerenceTao
ProfessorofMathematicsatUniversityofCaliforniaLosAngeles

Q:Therearealotoftopicsinolympiadmaththataregularschoolcurriculumwillnevercover.
Ahighschoolcurriculumisluckytoendwithcalculus.Asaprofessordoyouthinktopicslike
numbertheory,combinatorics,andcomplexalgebra/geometryshouldbetaughtinhigherlevel
highschoolclassesorjustreservedforthestudentsindependentlyfortheseolympiads?

A:Thestandardhighschoolcurriculumtraditionallyhasbeenfocusedtowardsphysicsandengineering.
Socalculus,differentialequations,andlinearalgebrahavealwaysbeenthemostemphasized,andfor
goodreasontheseareveryimportant.Thereisnowatrendovertheriseofcomputerscienceand
alsothelifesciences,whichhavebecomemoremathematical.Schoolsareslowlytransitioningto
emphasizethingslikecombinatorics,probability,andstatistics.Thesethingsaregettingmoreimportant.
Numbertheorylesssobecauseithasfewerapplicationscryptographyistheonlyreallybigpractical
applicationofthesubject.Somainstreammatheducationisfocusedondifferenttopics.Moststudents
whotakemathclassesarentgoingtobemathematicians.Theyregoingtobeengineers,
statisticiansinmanywaysthatsthemoreimportantmissionofmatheducation.Soitssortof
complementary.

Matheducationhaschangedovertheyears.Inthe19
th
century,theytaughtsphericaltrigonometry
becauseoneofthebiggestapplicationsofmathematicswasnavigatingtheocean.Thisisnolongerso
relevant.Soitsgreatthatwehavethesecompetitionsandthatwekeepsomeclassicalmathematicslike
Euclideangeometryandelementarynumbertheory.Inmathematicalresearch,itsgoodtoknowthese
things.Youwilllearnthemeventually,especiallyifyoutakeaclassinit.Atsomepointyoucanjust
learnityourselfandgoandreadabookonit.ItsreallyeasynowwiththeInternet,itsamazingnow.
PeopleaskmehowIknowsomanyareasofmathematics.Mostlyyoujustknowalittlebitandthen

youlookuptherest.ItssomucheasiernowthanwhenIwasagraduatestudent.Imeanyouneeda
certainamountofbasemathematicssothatyoucanlearneverythingelsequickly.Butonceyouhave
thefoundation,itsfairlyquick.Soitsgreatthatwehavethecompetitions.Ithinktheycomplementthe
mainmatheducation,butIdontthinktheyneedtoreplaceit.

Q:Whatwouldyoutellanaspiringorcurrentmathematicsmajoraboutthekindofjobs
availablebesidesteaching?

A:MostpeoplewithBachelorsofMathdontgointoacademicssomuch.YouwouldgetaPhDfor
that.Theresmanythingsyoucandowithamathdegree:actuarialscience,finance,computergraphics,
andanythingquantitativereally.Youcanworkinalab.Ifyouarentafraidofequationsorabstract
thinking,itseasytopickupanykindofSTEMsubject.Youcangointoelectricalengineeringand
theresalwaysscaryequationslikeMaxwellsEquationsandsoforth.Butifyouhavethebasicmath
trainingyoucanpickthisup.YoucanmoveveryeasilyintoStatsImeanStatsishuge.Youcando
insuranceandallkindsofmedicalthings.Itsaveryflexiblemajor.Mostpeoplewithmathdegreesare
notcalledmathematicians,theymightbeanalysts.Ifyouwanttobeanengineer,obviouslyyourbest
routeistotakeengineeringclasses.Ifyoudonthavemathematicalbackground,theclassesyoutake
willhelpyoutraintoanalyzeexistingsystemsandbuildthingsthathaventbeenbuiltbefore.Ifyouwant
todesignsomethingreallynew,atsomepointyoullhavetomodelwhatyouredoing,whichmightbe
differentfrompreviousmodels,andyouhavetodosomemathematicssomewhere.

Q:Doyoufindmorefulfillmentinteachingorresearching?

A:Theyarecomplementary.Youonlyreallylearnsomethingwhenyoucanteachittosomeoneelse.If
youhavetodosomethinglikeabstractgeometry,youhavetobeabletodobasicgeometryreally
quickly.Afteryouvetaughtcalculusafewtimesyoucanlookatdifferentialequationsandsayoh,it
shouldlooklikethis,whichwouldhavetakenlikehalfanhourasastudentbutnowtakesafew
minutes.Youneedthatspeedinordertotackletheharderproblems,soitiscomplementary.

Q:Whatdoyouenjoymostaboutmath?

A:Whenyoufinallyfigureoutsomethingthatsbotheredyou.Iftheressomethingthatlookslikeyou
shouldbeabletoanswerandyoucantansweritimmediately,itjustsortofbugsyou.Andwhenyou
figureoutthetrickthatresolvesit,thenalightbulbgoesoff.Sothatsverysatisfying,whenyoufinally
getwhatsgoingon,aswellaswhenyouexplainittosomeoneelseandyouseethelightbulbgoonin
theirhead.

Q:Whatisyourfavoritenumberormathematicalconstant?

A:Thefunnythingaboutmathematicsisthatyoudontworkwithregularnumberssomuch.Ineversee
a37,IseenalotofwhatIdoinvolvesabignumbernthatgoestoinfinity.Neveranyspecific
number.

Q:Doyouhaveanyotherinterestsbesidesmath?

A:Iusedtohavemore.Whenyouworkandyouhavefamily,itstough.WhenIwasyoungerIusedto
watchalotanimeandplaycomputergamesandsoforth,butIhavenotimeforthesethingsanymore.

Q:Areyouinterestedinseeingyourtwokidsbecomemathematicians?Areyougoingto
pushthematallinthatdirection?

A:Whatevertheyhavethepassionfor.Mysonis11andhehassometalentformath,buthedoesnt
reallyhaveapassionforit.Whathereallylikesisacting,theatreandvideoeditingactuallywhichis
maybewhathellbecome,Idontknow.

Q:Whataboutprimenumbersinterestsyousomuch?

A:Numbertheoryisoneofthethingsyoucanactuallyappreciate.Isawthesethroughhighschooland
competitions,soIknewaboutallthesenumbersandconjecturetheoriesveryearly,at8or9.Ive
alwayswantedtomakeprogressinthisarea.Itsnotthemostappliedareaofmathematics.Ifyou
provethetwinprimeconjecturetoday,itwonthavethatmucheffectintechnologytomorrow.Well,it
dependswhatisprovedandhow.Inmanyways,itsthemethodsofproofthataremoreimportant.
[Conjectures]arejustsortofbenchmarkstokeepscore.

Q:Istherearesultthatyouconsiderthemostbeautiful?

A:Idontthinkmuchinthoseterms.Thefunnythingisanythingyouproveyourself,youthinkoh,that
wasaloteasierthanIthought.Youknow,onceyouactuallyseeit,yourealizeitwasntthathardafter
all.

Q:Howdidyoulearntoteachandwhatisyourteachingphilosophy?

A:Sinkorswimbasically.WhenIwasagraduatestudent,Ididntteach,Iwasagrader.Iassistedone
ortwoclasses.WhenIfirstcametoUCLAthatwasmyfirstclass.Ihadamentorteachinganother
sessionfortheclasstheydothatforthefirstclass.Heshowedmewhatkindsofhomework,
midterms,andsyllabiheused.Whenyoustartout,youregivenasyllabusandatextbookandbasically
toldtousethetextbookitsnotactuallythatdifficult.

TherewereacouplethingsIhadtolearn.IrememberthefirstexamIgaveoutIputalotofeffortinto
designingverycutequestionswheretheanswertothefirstquestionwouldbeusefulinthesecond
question,andsoforth.Ididntrealizethiswouldbeanightmaretograde.Wheneachquestionhasa
singleanswer,youreeitherrightorwrong.Youdontwantquestionswheresomeonemakesamistake
inthefirststepbuteverythingelseiscorrect,soyouhavetocheck.Soittookmeawhiletofigureout
whataregoodquestionsandthatsortofthing.Youshouldmakeclearatthebeginningwhatyour
policiesareforhomework.Ifyourevagueyoualwaysgetkidsthatsay,Ididntrealizethismidterm
wasworththismuch.Canyoureconsiderit?

Q:Whatcanteachersdotomakekidslikemathnotjustcomputationalmathbuttheideas
ofmathlikeproblemsolvingandexploration?

A:Itdependsontheteachersstyle.Someteachersarereallyentertaining.Youknow,theytelljokes.
Noteveryonecandothat.Somecanmakereallyelaboratepresentationsandexperiments.Someare
goodatfindingreallyrelevantvideosandthingsontheInternet.Sometimesmakingaclassmore
enjoyableorentertainingisnotthesameasmakingitmoreeducational.IrememberoncewhenItaught
calculus,oneofthesectionswasquadricsurfaces,likeellipsoids,paraboloidsandsoforth.Sotheres
thisthingcalledahyperbolicparaboloid,andIwantedtodemonstratethis.ItturnsoutthataPringlehas
theshapeofahyperbolicparaboloid.SoIbroughtinapackofPringlestoclassandsaid,thisisa
hyperbolicparaboloid,thisiswhatitlookslike.IatethePringleasIwaswritingequationsonthe
board.Wellmanyyearslater,Iranintosomeoneonthestreetwhosaid,Oh,Iknowyou.Itookone
ofyourclasses.Iforgetwhatitwas,buttherewasaPringle.SoIthought,youdidntrememberany
ofthemath,butyourememberthePringle.Soitdidntreallywork.

Q:Whatdoyouhopetoaccomplishthroughyourresearch?Doyouhaveanyspecificgoals?

A:Noreallyshorttermobjectives.There'salwaysquestionswhichIdlovetosolve(Riemann
Hypothesis,NavierStokes,whatever).Butusuallythesethingsaresooutofreach.Weunderstandthe
toolsthatwehaveprettywell.Weknowthatwithoutanextraororiginalideayoucantreallyanswer
them.Wedontfocusdirectlyontheselongshotgoals.Alotofthefocusisincremental.Alotof
mathematicianslikenmathematicalresearchtoclimbingacliff.Youreatacertainpointonthecliff,and
yourfirstgoalistogetonefoothigher,andyoujustkeepdoingthat.Everytimeyousolveaproblem,
naturallyotherproblemsappear.Whatwasextremelydifficultnowjustlooksmoderatelydifficult.You
useallofyournotesandgetasenseofwhatisapromisingdirectionbasicallyanytimetheresa
phenomenonwhichlooksinterestingandyoucantexplainit,butlookslikeyoushouldbeableto
analyzeit.Thatswhatyouwanttostudy.

Q:Whatdoyoufeelarethe2or3mostimportantopenproblemsareinmathematics?

A:Dependswhetheryouweightthembyhoweasytheyaretosolve.ImeanifyousolvedP=NP,it
couldhavehugeapplications,butitssodifficulttonarrowdown.Itshardtomeasuretheimportance.

Q:Whichofthemillenniumproblemsdoyouthinkwearefurthestfromsolving?In2007you
mentionedinatalkatUCLAthatyouexpectasolutiontoPvs.NPtocomelast,withthe
Riemannhypothesisjustbeforeit.Doyouholdthatsameviewtoday?

A:Iwouldsayso.TheseIthinkaredecadesbeforewecansolvethemforsure.

Q:WhataboutNavierStokes?

A:SothereIthinkwehaveachance.ThatoneIthinkweareclosesttoprovingordisproving.One
direction[withintheproblem]mightbesolvable.Alotofconjecturesarelikethis.TaketheGoldbach
conjecture:everyevennumberisthesumoftwoprimes.Ifitsfalse,itcouldbedisprovenbecauseifit
turnsoutthatsomehumongousnumberisnotthesumoftwoprimesafteryoucheckallthepossibilities,
thenyouvedisproventheGoldbachconjecture.Butnoonebelievesthat.Inprincipleitcouldbeeasy
todisprove.Butprobablynot.SomaybethereschancewithNavierStokes,butitsalongshot.

Q:YouhavethreeIMOappearances,andyouwononeofeachmedal,soyouhaveOlympiad
experience.Doyounoticeanythingdifferentbetweenhowmathcontestsarenowcompared
tohowtheywereinthelate80swhenyouparticipatedinthem?

A:Imnotinvolvedinthemanymore,buttheylookmuchmoreprofessional.Itwasreallyanamateur
thing.Imeanpeoplewouldtrainformaybe2weeks.Nowtherearesomecountrieswhohavebeen
trainingforyearsandareverysystematicwhereyoustudy50yearsworthofproblems.Itsbecome
muchmorelikeaprofessionalsport.Itslikeyouthbaseballitstartsoffamateurandeventuallysomeof
theprofessionalstakeover,whichmakesitdifferent.Insomewaysitslessfun,insomewaysits

better.Onenicethingthoughisthatmanyothercompetitionshavesprungup.WhenIwasakiditwas
basicallyjusttheOlympiadsandthingsthatfitintotheOlympiads.Nowtherestheseotheractivitiestoo
ifyoudontwanttobesocompetitive.TheresotherthingslikeMathCirclesandotheronlinewebsites
whereyoucandiscussproblemsinfriendlyways.Soitsmorediverse.

Q:AtIMO,whydoyouthinkthatChina,Russia,Japan,andtheKoreasalwaysseemtowin
theunofficialteamcompetitionandwinthemostmedalsasateam,oftenwithperfectscores?
DoyouthinkthissaysanythingaboutEnglishspeakingcultureslikeAustralia,theUS,and
theUKandtheiremphasisonmatheducation?

A:Ithinkit'saculturalemphasis.Asiancountriesoftenplacealargerpremiumoninternational
recognitiononanysphere.InAmerica,thisislessimportantasAmericaisagloballeaderinsomany
areas,itdoesntmatterasmuchtothem.Inmanyofthesecountries,theyreactuallytryingtomake
themlesscompetitive.Therearemanystudentswhohaveovertrained.Theygoandgetthreegold
medals,buttheysacrificetheirregulareducation,spendingyearsdoingnothingbutworkingonthese
problems.TheyfinishtheOlympiadandtheyreburntout.Theyrenotproperlytrained,eventodoa
mathdegreeortheyllbesickofmathsbythenifthatswhattheyvebeendoing.Theresabalance.
Youcangetalittleobsessedwiththemedaltallies.Afterawhileitssortofpointlesstooptimize.Its
sortofliketheSATs.Gettinga600orsomethingisprettygood.Whenyouobsessaboutgettingthat
perfectscore,youstartskippingonyoursocialactivitiesanddonothingbutsqueezethoselastfew
points,whenitdoesntreallymatterinthelongrun.TheresagreatobservationcalledGoodhartsLaw
thatbasicallysaysanymetricbecomesuselessonceyoustartusingitforcontrolpurposes.SotheSAT,
forexample,isagoodgeneraltestofacademicaptitude.Butsinceitsusedsomuchforadmissionto
college,kidsaretrainedandcoached.Theyspendlotsoftimeandeffort,specificallytoimprovetheir
SATscoreattheexpenseofawellroundededucation,tothepointwhere[theSAT]maynotbesucha
goodguidetogeneralacademicexcellence,eventhoughitusedtobebeforestudentsstartedoptimizing.

Q:Doyoufeellikejustanyonewithenoughhardworkanddedicationcanreachthelevelof
mathematicsthatyouhave,ordoyouthinkitrequiresacertainmentaldispositionthatyou're
bornwithinordertodothetypeofmathsdoneattheIMOoringraduatestudies?

A:Itdependsonwhatyourgoalis.Ifyourgoalistobegood,asopposedtoobsessedwithgettinga
perfectscoreorbeingattheabsolutetop,orjustdoingdecently.Ifyouhavetheenthusiasm,youalso
havetospendalotoftime.Ithinkoneofthethingsyouhavetodoisyouhavetoplaywiththesubject.
WhenIwasakid,Ijustloveddoingmathonmyown,Iwouldtrytosolveequationsitwasahobby.
Iwouldtrytofindthesumofthefirstncubesbymyself.Itsnotaveryseriouslevelofmathematics,
butitsonlybytinkeringwithasubjectthatyoureallygetgoodatit.Sameasanything,likebuilding
things.Youneedacertainbaselineintelligenceandbeabletothinkandwrite,butIthinkitismostly
actuallyyourenthusiasmandyourtimeputingiventheopportunity.

Q:WhathasbeenyouropiniononthePolymathprojectsthatyou'vebeeninvolvedin,anddo
youthinksimilarkindsofsemimassivelycollaborativemathematicshasafuture?

A:Ithinkwellseemoreofthem.Foralongtimetheyregoingtobeaniche.Therearecertaintypesof
problemsthattheyareverywellsuitedfor:problemswhichareverymodular,thatcanbesplitupinto
differentpiecesthatasetofpeoplecanworkon.Youneedagoodleaderwhocanorganizeeverything.
Thereneedstobesomeclearmeasureofprogressbymembersofyourgroup.Ithastobeaccessible
enoughandinterestingenoughtogetpeopleinvolved.Theresacriticalmass,though.Therearesome
projectswhereonlyabout3peoplegetinvolvedanditgetsconvertedintonormal,traditional
collaboration.Thereareprojectswhereyouexpecttheanswertocomefromalotoflittleideasrather
thanafewreallybigideas.ButIdontthinkwelleversolvetheRiemannhypothesisbythissortof
crowdsourcingthing,likeletsget1000peopletogether,throwideasaroundandseewhatsticks.
Thatsnothowtheseproblemsaregoingtobesolved.

Q:WhatisyouropiniononstrongAI?

A:ThefunnythingaboutAIisthatitsamovingtarget.Intheseventies,someonemightaskwhatare
thegoalsofAI?Andyoumightsay,Oh,wewantacomputerwhocanbeatachessmaster,orwho
canunderstandactuallanguagespeech,orwhocansearchawholedatabaseveryquickly.Wedoall
thatnow,likefacerecognition.AllthesethingsthatwethoughtwereAI,wecandothem.Butonceyou
dothem,youdontthinkofthemasAI.Ithasthisconnotationofsomemysteriousmagicalcomponent
toit,butwhenyouactuallysolveoneoftheseproblems,youdontsolveitusingmagic,yousolveit
usingclevermathematics.Itsnolongermagical.Itbecomesscience,andthenyoudontthinkofitas
AIanymore.ItsamazinghowyoucanspeakintoyourphoneandaskforthenearestThairestaurant,
anditwillfindit.ThiswouldhavebeencalledAI,butwedontthinkaboutitlikethatanymore.SoI
think,almostbydefinition,wewillneverhaveAIbecausewellneverachievethegoalsofAIorcease
tobecaughtupwithit.

Q:WouldyouconsiderdoinganAMAonreddit?

A:(Hesfamiliarwithredditandwilllookintoit.Fingerscrossed!)