Officer Nicholas Judson Interview Report

Utah County Attorneys Office
Supplementary Report
Case # 14CA00096
Date: 10/02/2014
Investigator: Sgt. Richard C. Hales

INVOLVED OFFICER
Name: Officer Nick Judson
Comments: Officer Judson works for Saratoga Springs Police Department. He has been with
the Department for less than one year.
OTHER
Name: Jeremy G. Jones
Comments: Mr. Jones is an attorney at the Law Firm of Nelson Jones, PLLC. Mr. Jones
represents Officer Judson.
WITNESS
Name: Sgt. Patty Johnston
Comments: Sgt. Johnston is an investigator for the Utah County Attorney Bureau of
Investigations.
SYNOPSIS:
On September 10, 2014, Officer Nick Judson was called to a suspicious person detail in the area
of the Top Stop located at the intersection of SR-68 and SR-73 in Saratoga Springs, Utah. Upon
arrival Officer Judson and Corporal Matt Schauerhamer were involved in a shooting where the
suspect, Darrien Hunt was fatally shot. Both officers fired their weapons in the incident.
On September 18, 2014, an interview was conducted with Officer Judson, who came willingly.
The interview was done at the Utah County Attorney Bureau of Investigation. I conducted the
interview and was assisted by Sgt. Patty Johnston. Officer Judson was represented by attorney,
Jeremy Jones, who was present during the interview.
The Utah County Attorney Bureau of Investigations uses an interview guideline for Officer
Involved Incidents. The guide follows a process to assure the interview is comprehensive and
detailed. The interviewer can adjust the guide to conform with the type of incident related to the
involved officer. The guideline uses: free recall, clarification of free recall, a diagram, and a
checklist of detailed questions to assure all information is covered. Our training and experience
has concluded a cognitive interview is the best in terms of memory recall for the involved
officer.
It should be noted some of the information within this summary is subjective in nature. Officer
Judson offers opinion on time, distance, and other information. Its possible some of this
information may differ from evidence at the scene. Based on training from Force Science , a
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WARNING FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ONLY

CONTENTS OF THIS REPORT RESTRICTED TO JUSTICE AMINISTRATION
Supervisor Approval: _________________________JR__________________________
Report Released To: GRAMA 12/8/2014
_____________________

reason for the discrepancy could be the high stress physically and psychologically on officers
during deadly force encounters.
This report is a summary of the interview with Officer Judson. The interview was audio and
video recorded.
OFFICERS BACKGROUND:
Officer Nick Judson went to Utah Valley University graduating from the Police Academy in July
2013. He was hired by the Utah State Department of Corrections as a Corrections Officer in July
2013. After about six months of employment he was hired by Saratoga Springs PD in April
2014. Initially he was a LEO certified Animal Control Officer. Before his field training was
completed, which was approximately six weeks, he was hired as a fulltime patrol officer. He has
been serving as such since. Officer Judson is up to date on all of his in-service training.
Officer Judson had been working day shifts from 0600 hours to 1600 hours. He had worked day
shift September 9, 2014. He explained a routine day shift to me. He generally comes in early
and gets any unfinished paperwork done. He stated Saratoga Springs PD doesnt generally take
a lot of calls so therefore most of his shift is working traffic and self initiated police work. On a
normal weekday day shift there are two patrol officers, a commercial vehicle officer, detectives
and administration.
DETAILS:
Officer Judson was notified by dispatch of a suspicious Polynesian male about six feet tall
walking on Redwood Road (SR-68) carrying a sword. Officer Judson was at the office at the
time. Judson left the office and drove northbound on Redwood Road. Judson observed the male
walking southbound on the sidewalk on Redwood. Judson stated the suspect was near the Panda
Express restaurant. Judson had to continue north to make a U-turn on Redwood Road because of
a center divider. Upon making the U-turn Judson continued southbound on Redwood Road
observing the male turn into Top Spot gas station. Judson turned into the parking lot of Top Spot
on the east side and stopped. The male suspect was walking in front of the Top Spot store.
Officer Judson yelled from his vehicle attempting to contact the suspect verbally. The suspect
failed to respond. Judson yelled again and this time the suspect briefly looked around. Judson
stated he observed white chords coming from his ears and believed the suspect had ear phones in
his ears. Judson was unsure if the suspect could hear him yelling. Judson noted the suspect was
carrying what appeared to be a sheathed samurai-type sword in his left hand. The hilt was
pointed towards the ground and the scabbard ran up the length of the suspects left arm. Judson
was aware of several people pumping gas and several vehicles in the Top Stop parking lot. The
suspect continued walking in front of the store.
At this time Corporal Schauerhamer turned into the Top Stop parking area from SR-73 coming
up the west side of the store. Schauerhamer was in a marked police vehicle and the suspect
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appeared to notice the police vehicle entering the parking area. Judson by this time was about
20-30 steps behind the suspect closing on him on foot. Judson observed a female coming out of
Top Stop and came in directly behind the suspect.
Corporal Schauerhamer stopped and exited his vehicle. The suspect stopped in front of the
patrol car. By this time, Judson had caught up and was only a short distance away. Judson
described their pattern of stance near the patrol car as a tactical L. He showed me the suspect
standing at the front of car toward the drivers side. Schauerhamer was standing near the
drivers door and he was standing in front of the patrol car near the right fender. (See diagram)
Schauerhamer confronted the suspect asking him to put the sword on the hood of the patrol car.
The suspect refused by saying, No, this is my sword. Schauerhamer asked the suspect what he
was doing. The suspect responded saying he was looking for a ride to Orem and he was looking
for anyone to give him a ride. Schauerhamer offered to give the suspect a ride but only if he
would put the sword on the hood of the patrol car. The suspect denied again by saying the sword
was his. During this conversation Judson observed the suspect holding the sword in his left
hand. There were black laces wrapped around the suspects hand holding the sheath of the
sword. The handle was toward the ground. The sword was in the sheath upside down running
the length of his left arm.
Judson stated the suspect became quiet and there was a short pause. During this pause Judson
observed the suspect slightly turn to his left and with his right hand grab the handle of the sword.
The suspect drew the sword taking it upward over his head then swinging it toward
Schauerhamer. Judson saw Schauerhamer go backward toward the ground and Judson was
unsure if Schauerhamer was hit with the sword. Judson knowing he was in danger started to turn
away to create space between he and the suspect. Judson stated he made eye contact with the
suspect and the suspect started toward him. Judson started drawing his gun knowing he is going
to fire it because they are in danger. As Judson is creating space and drawing his gun he heard
shots fired from Schauerhamer. Judson is unaware if the suspect has been hit or not. As Judson
completed the 360 degree turn the suspect is in front of him and Judson fired one round from his
gun. Judson explained the shot he fired was toward Panda Express from the area of the
passenger door of the patrol car. Judson showed the location of the suspect to the right and away
from the patrol car down the slope of grass. (See diagram) Judsons perception of distance to the
suspect when he fired was 20-30 feet.
By this time, Schauerhamer had moved between the suspect and Judson. The suspect began to
run and Schauerhamer pursued the suspect. Judson followed after Schauerhamer in the foot
pursuit.
They ran behind the car wash and easterly behind Top Spot. Judson observed Schauerhamer had
lost his cell phone from his belt and observed Schauerhamer perform a reload of his gun. Judson
remembered Schauerhamer yell Stop to the suspect one time after the foot pursuit started.
Schauerhamer was on his radio advising dispatch of shots fired. Judson stated he observed
the suspect get shot in the lower left side during the foot pursuit by a shot fired by Schauerhamer.
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Judson described observing behind the car wash of the Top Stop. When questioned specifically
about this shot Judson explained it was after he had fired. Schauerhamer fired the round and it
clearly hit the suspect. The pursuit went across a large bed of river rocks and Judson got caught
up in the rocks and tripped. Judson explained the area in the rocks as close to Panda Express.
(See diagram)
Dispatch was asking for verification of the radio traffic and Judson used Schauerhamers call
number advising shots fired. By this time Judson was at the south east corner of Panda
Express and the suspect was out of sight. Schauerhamer had turned the corner at the north east
corner of Panda Express and was out of sight. Judson heard several more shots and reached the
north east corner of Panda Express where he saw the suspect down on the ground and
Schauerhamer running up to him.
The suspect was alive upon their arrival and Schauerhamer is checking vital signs.
Schauerhamer asked Judson if he was okay and Judson asked Schauerhamer if he was okay.
Schauerhamer holstered his weapon. Schauerhamer called dispatch for medical assistance and
other officers.
Judson holstered his gun and began to secure the scene. Judson noticed the sword the suspect
had used was lying on the ground about 15 feet away. He stated no one touched the sword while
he was there. The sheath was lying in the parking lot area to the north of the suspect. No one
touched the sheath while Judson was present on the scene.
I asked Judson if he or Schauerhamer administered first aid. Schauerhamer checked vitals on the
suspect. The Fire Department determined the suspect was deceased. The suspect was lying on
his back face up. The shirt was still buttoned and his pants had fallen down to his knees. He
reiterated Schauerhamer was monitoring his vital signs, but it was clear the suspect was not
going to survive.
DIAGRAM:
I asked Judson to draw a diagram in his hand of the incident. Judson was provided a blank
document and he drew a diagram explaining how the incident unfolded. The diagram was
labeled and signed by Judson.
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Blue C1, O2, X1 represent location of officer & suspect during initial contact.
Judson shows by a red dot near car C where he fired his gun. (One round)
Suspect is red (X) represent location when Judson fired.
Red (X) represents where Judson observed suspect hit.
Red (O) represents where Judson tripped in rocks.
Red (C) represents where Judson last saw Schauerhamer before last shots.
Red (X) with circle represents suspect down.
Red (C) north of Panda represents Schauerhamer after Judson rounded corner.
Blue represents last location of sword and sheath near suspect north of Panda.

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FOLLOW UP QUESTIONS:
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I asked Judson if he had ever met or knew the suspect prior to this encounter. He responded
saying he doesnt think he has ever met the suspect before. I asked if Schauerhamer knew the
suspect and he didnt know.
I asked about the threat level in this encounter. Judson stated, the suspect had a sword or edged
weapon. The suspect appeared calm at least at the beginning. The conversation was very calm
and other than the sword everything was fine. Judson stated Schauerhamer was doing all the
talking.
I asked Judson what he was wearing. He was wearing his police uniform with badge, patches
and identifying markings. He had a Sam Brown belt with gun, taser, handcuffs extra
ammunition etc.
I asked Judson if there were any verbal commands given to the suspect. Judson stated the only
verbal commands were basically requests for him to put the sword on the hood of the patrol car.
Schauerhamer asked him at least three times to surrender the sword. The suspect declined to put
the sword down, saying it was his sword.
I asked Judson if he observed the suspect take the ear buds out. Judson didnt remember the
suspect taking the ear buds out. I asked if there appeared to be any disability or language barrier
with the suspect. Judson told me the suspect clearly understood the conversation and spoke
English. The suspect didnt seem impaired or under the influence to Judson.
I asked Judson if Schauerhamer moved the suspect after he went down. Judson told me
Schauerhamer was just approaching the suspect on the ground as he rounded the north east
corner of Panda Express. Judson stated Schauerhamer never moved the suspect.
Judson demonstrated for the video the action the suspect used with the sword. Judson stood up
and explained the sword was handle down, blade up in the sheath. The sword ran the length of
his left arm. The black laces were wrapped around the suspects left hand. The suspect turned
slightly to his left and then drew the sword out and up over his head. The suspect then swung the
sword down toward Schauerhamer. The suspect then turned toward Judson and made eye
contact with Judson, with the sword up above his shoulder came at Judson. Sgt. Johnston asked
Judson to clarify what he meant. Judson explained it as the suspect ran at him with the sword
over his head. Judson was turning trying to create space and Schauerhamer fired. As Judson
came around doing the 360 degree turn the suspect was in front of him and he fired one round.
I asked Judson what tools he had at his disposal in terms of use of force. He told me he carries
an ASP, (baton) taser, and a gun. He also carries handcuffs. Judson elects not to carry pepper
spray. The Department requires officers to carry a gun and taser. The officer has an option
between the ASP and/or pepper spray.
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I asked Judson which of those tools he elected to use in this incident. He replied, I used the
handgun. I asked why he chose the handgun. Judson replied, Because the threat, I feared for
my life, he had already taken a swing at Matt, he could have easily hacked Matt in the head, neck
anything like that so the use of deadly force on his side of things is already been activated. So
immediately that, you know red flags for me, hes coming at me next, he could potentially take
my life, so thats why I made the decision to use the handgun.
The next question was; when you fired your one shot did you feel your life was in danger?
Judson replied, I believe when I was spinning he was coming at me, so when I turned and fired
I thought he was still coming there. But he had already turned the other direction. I asked
Judson if he perceived anyone else was in danger. Judson replied, Oh, yea, if he was willing to
swing at me, if anyone was around the corner, whats to stop him from taking a hostage,
swinging at them, to stop us, I dont see why, he wouldnt, cause he was willing to do it to us,
Im sure he would have been willing to do it to anybody. I asked if deadly force was the only
option. Judson replied, Yes.
I asked Judson what his perception of the law in terms of deadly force. He replied by saying
when there is a threat of serious bodily injury or death to himself, other officers or the public an
officer is justified in the use of deadly force.
AFTER THE INCIDENT:
Judson explained what occurred to him after the shooting. He stated he was removed from the
scene by Corporal Taylor. He was assigned to stay with Officer Nick Steadman and
Schauerhamer was assigned to Officer Nate Harward. He was transported back to the Police
Department separated from Schauerhamer. He was placed in the investigations area of the office
with Officer Steadman and later moved to the Sergeants office. He was asked to sign a waiver
for a blood draw and shortly later a forensic nurse prepared him for a blood draw and urine test.
Photographs were taken of Judson in uniform as he was during the incident by Corporal Wright.
Corporal Wright removed Judsons firearm from the holster and photographed it. He cleared the
weapon for safety and accounted for the bullets in the gun and magazines from Judsons belt.
I asked Judson if he fully loads his clips with ammunition. He stated they are fully loaded, the
gun is carried with one in the chamber and a fully loaded clip in the gun. I asked Judson if he
has ever modified his gun or clips before or after the shooting. He replied, No.
Judson told me he was not physically injured during this incident. I asked if Schauerhamer
appeared physically injured. Judson stated Schauerhamer told him he was okay just after the
shooting.
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ENVIRONMENT:
We discussed the environment. Judson told me the weather was sunny and warm. It was a clear
day, visibility was good. He had been working for about three hours.
24 HOURS BEFORE INCIDENT:
Judson offered a history 24 hours prior to the incident. Judson explained he worked the day
before which was a Tuesday. He referenced the day as a double back day. He explained it is day
during the week where both patrol teams work. It offers a chance for officers to go to training,
work on anything they still had pending, vehicle maintenance etc. He stated he worked traffic in
the morning and wrote a few citations. In the afternoon he went to Salt Lake and took care of
some uniform issues. Judson arrived home around 1600 hours. He did the normal things such as
had dinner spent time with the family. He went to bed around 2100 hours and woke up around
0400-0430 hours. He had a goodnights sleep and doesnt have any trouble sleeping.
I asked him if he was taking any prescription medication or had been drinking alcohol. He stated
that he wasnt taking any prescriptions and had not consumed any alcohol.
I asked Judson if he wears any type of corrective eyewear. He replied, No. I asked Judson if
there was any personal outside stressors causing him problems prior to this event. He replied,
No. I asked him about any disciplinary issues related to his employment as a police officer.
He stated there were no disciplinary issues. He has never been involved in a deadly force
incident prior to this event.
WEAPON AMMUNITION & VEHICLE:
I asked Judson if the weapon he used was personal or department issue. He stated it was a
department issued handgun. He doesnt carry a back up weapon. I asked if he has modified
anything on his gun or magazines such as clip extensions or tactical lights. He told me there
were no modifications. The gun is basic issued firearm from the department.
I asked Judson about recording devices. His police vehicle has video and audio recording
equipment. The video was not turned on. He was not wearing the audio mic that is part of the in
car video.
Judson was issued personal audio and video recorder that is carried on his uniform pocket. He
forgot to turn the personal audio/video recorder on. He told me the training related to this
equipment was a brief discussion.
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REPORTS:
I asked Judson if he had completed a report or statement concerning the incident. He told me no
report had been written but he had made some personal notes regarding the incident. I asked him
if he had spoken to anyone about the events. He stated he spoke to his wife and ecclesiastical
leader.
EVIDENCE:
I asked Judson if he was aware of any evidence being moved at the scene such as the sword or
sheath. He told me he didnt see anyone move items. I asked him about a medical kit near the
suspect. He believed it came from the Fire Department personnel upon their arrival. He
remembered seeing them cut the shirt from the suspect and attached electrical leads to the
suspect to check for vital signs.
SGT. JOHNSTONS FOLLOW UP QUESTIONS:
Sgt. Johnston asked Judson if he knew for sure prior to firing his weapon if Schauerhamer had
been hit by the sword or not. Judson stated he didnt know for sure because Schauerhamer went
outside his peripheral vision and he was also taking defensive actions. Sgt. Johnston asked if it
was a possibility Schauerhamer was hit with the sword. Judson replied, Very much so.
Sgt. Johnston asked Judson to mentally go back to the north east corner of Panda Express and
observing the suspect down after rounding the corner. She asked Judson if he heard any verbal
commands from Schauerhamer. Judson replied, No. She asked Judson if he personally yelled
any verbal commands. Judson replied, No, the suspect other than a few movements like you
know if you were to have a side ache or anything like that he wasnt. She asked if the suspect
said anything. Judson replied, He didnt say anything.
Sgt. Johnston asked Judson about being taken to the Police Department after the incident. She
asked if he was left alone at anytime. Judson stated he was with someone the whole time except
when he called his wife and mother to tell them he was alright.
CONCLUSION:
This concluded the questions for the interview. I explained the investigative process the Utah
County Attorney goes through and the decision process. We explained the administrative part of
the case was between the Department and the officer in terms of returning to work.
Jeremy Jones, Judsons attorney wanted a point of clarification made by Judson. Jones asked
Judson if the suspect had the sword the whole time during the foot pursuit. Judson stated the
suspect had the sword in one hand and the sheath in the other the whole time until he went down.
Judson reiterated that he didnt see the suspect lose the sword because he didnt get around the
north east corner of Panda Express until the suspect was already down.
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Judson was grateful to be able to tell his side of the story. He felt he had job to do that day and
there was nothing fun about the events that took place. Judson finished labeling the diagram he
drew and the interview was concluded.
End of report.
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Officer Nicholas Judson Interview Report

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Officer Nicholas Judson Interview Report

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Utah County Attorneys Office

Investigator: Sgt. Richard C. Hales

WARNING FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ONLY

Utah County Attorneys Office

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Utah County Attorneys Office

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Utah County Attorneys Office

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Utah County Attorneys Office

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Utah County Attorneys Office

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Utah County Attorneys Office

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Utah County Attorneys Office

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Utah County Attorneys Office

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Utah County Attorneys Office

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