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STATE OF ALABAMA
DEPARTMENT OF CONSERVATION
AND NATURAL RESOURCES
ADVISORY BOARD MEETING
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TAKEN BEFORE NICOLE PAULK,
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTER, ON FEBRUARY
12, 2005, COMMENCING AT 9:01 A.M., IN THE
ALABAMA STATE CAPITOL AUDITORIUM, 600
DEXTER AVENUE, MONTGOMERY, ALABAMA.
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BOARD MEMBERS:
MR. DAN MOULTRIE, CHAIRMAN
MR. M. BARNETT LAWLEY, COMMISSIONER
MR. ROSS M. SELF
MR. LOUIS W. COLES
MR. JOHNNY M. JOHNSON
DR. A. WAYNE MAY
MR. W. GRANT LYNCH
MR. JAMES W. PORTER, II
MR. MARVIN WILLIS
MR. BILL HATLEY
MR. GEORGE HARBIN

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MR. MOULTRIE: THE FEBRUARY 12TH
MEETING OF THE ADVISORY BOARD WILL COME TO
ORDER. I WOULD LIKE TO WELCOME EVERYBODY
TO MONTGOMERY. THE BOARD IS GLAD ALL OF
YOU ALL ARE HERE. THE INVOCATION WILL BE
GIVEN BY MR. JOHN JOHNSON. JOHN?
(INVOCATION GIVEN.)
MR. MOULTRIE: THANK YOU,
MR. JOHNSON. FOR THE NEXT ORDER OF
BUSINESS, I'D LIKE TO CALL ON COMMISSIONER
BARNETT LAWLEY TO INTRODUCE THE MEMBERS OF
THE BOARD. COMMISSIONER?
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: I WANT TO
WELCOME EVERYBODY TO THE ADVISORY BOARD
MEETING. I'LL JUST START AT THE FAR END,
GEORGE, AND LET EVERYBODY INTRODUCE
THEMSELVES. I THINK EVERYBODY IS FAMILIAR
WITH EVERYBODY, BUT IF YOU'LL JUST RAISE
YOUR HAND AND SAY YOUR NAME.
MR. HARBIN: I'M GEORGE HARBIN,
AND I REPRESENT DISTRICT 4.
MR. HATLEY: I'M BILL HATLEY, AND

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I REPRESENT DISTRICT 1.
MR. SELF: I'M ROSS SELF, AND I
REPRESENT DISTRICT 1.
MR. LYNCH: GRANT LYNCH,
REPRESENTING DISTRICT 3.
MR. PORTER: JIM PORTER, DISTRICT
6.
MR. MAY: WAYNE MAY, DISTRICT 7.
MR. COLES: LOUIS COLES, DISTRICT
2.
MR. JOHNSON: JOHNNY JOHNSON,
DISTRICT 7.
MR. WILLIS: MARVIN "BUDDY"
WILLIS, DISTRICT 5.
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: I REALLY
APPRECIATE ALL THE WORK THAT THESE MEN DO.
AND THEY TRY TO REPRESENT THE DISTRICTS
BECAUSE THAT'S THEIR JOB TO REPRESENT THE
WILL OF THAT DISTRICT. A LOT OF TIMES IT'S
NOT YOUR PERSONAL THOUGHTS, BUT WE WANT THE
PEOPLE TO BE ABLE TO BE REPRESENTED, TO
HAVE THE TIME AND TO BE ABLE TO GET THEIR
POINT ACROSS. AND WE'RE DOING SOMETHING

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DIFFERENT THIS YEAR. WE'RE CHANGING

ADVISORY BOARD PROCEDURES. IN THE PAST
WE'VE HAD TWO MEETINGS, AND A MOTION COULD
COME UP, BE VOTED ON AT THAT MEETING. SOME
BOARD MEMBERS WOULD HAVE HAD KNOWLEDGE,
SOME WOULD NOT HAVE HAD KNOWLEDGE. THE
PUBLIC, YOU OUT THERE, SOME WOULD HAVE SOME
KNOWLEDGE; SOME WOULD HAVE NONE. BUT
OBVIOUSLY, THERE WAS NO TIME FOR PUBLIC
COMMENT OR NO TIME FOR ALL THE BOARD TO BE
ABLE TO RESEARCH A PARTICULAR MOTION THAT
WAS MADE. SO WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO -AND THIS IS NOT WRITTEN IN STONE THIS YEAR.
I MEAN, JUST THE GOALS ARE THAT YOU HAVE
TIME TO EXPRESS YOUR VIEW, THAT THE HUNTERS
AND THE FISHERMEN AND THE PUBLIC HAS TIME
TO COMMUNICATE THROUGH THEIR ADVISORY BOARD
MEMBERS, ALSO TO ME, AND THE DEPARTMENT OF
CONSERVATION. WE WANT TO HEAR WHAT YOUR
VIEWS ARE ON DIFFERENT ISSUES. ISSUES THAT
COME UP TODAY, SOME OF THEM WILL BE WITHIN
OUR DEPARTMENT. SOME OF THEM WILL BE FROM
YOU. BUT THOSE ISSUES CANNOT BE VOTED ON

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TODAY. THOSE ISSUES WILL BE VOTED ON AT

THE MARCH MEETING. THIS GIVES US TIME TO
GET INPUT. IT GIVES THE PROFESSIONALS ON
OUR STAFF IN THE DEPARTMENT OF CONSERVATION
TIME TO RESEARCH THOSE ISSUES, AND I THINK
IT'S THE WAY THE SYSTEM SHOULD WORK. I
KNOW MY CHARGE FROM MY BOSS IS TO HAVE IT
OPEN, LET EVERYBODY SPEAK, KNOW WHAT THEIR
VIEWS ARE, AND MAKE DILIGENT DECISIONS THAT
BEST REPRESENT WHAT PEOPLE IN THE STATE
WANT, WITH FIRST PRIORITY BEING TO PROTECT
AND PRESERVE THE NATURAL RESOURCES OF THE
STATE OF ALABAMA. SO BEAR WITH US. WE'RE
GOING TO MAKE MISTAKES AND THE ESTEEMED
PRESS SITTING UP HERE TODAY, THEY HAVE SO
ELOQUENTLY POINTED OUT THAT THIS WAS A
PROBLEM, AND I AGREE WHOLEHEARTEDLY THIS
WAS A PROBLEM. SO WE WANT EVERYBODY TO
FEEL LIKE THAT THEY HAVE HAD A CHANCE TO
EXPRESS THEIR VIEWS; THAT'S WHY WE'RE
CHANGING THE FORMAT. SO BE PATIENT, WORK
WITH US. THERE ARE GOING TO BE SITUATIONS
PROBABLY IN THE NEXT MEETING, BUT WE'RE

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GOING TO BE VERY FLEXIBLE THIS FIRST YEAR

SO PEOPLE CAN ADJUST TO THE THREE MEETING
SYSTEM AND NONVOTING -- NOT VOTING ON
ISSUES THAT PREVIOUSLY HAVE NOT BEEN
DISCUSSED. SO I HOPE EVERYBODY LIKES THE
SYSTEM. I THINK IT'LL WORK. I THINK IT'LL
GIVE EVERYBODY TIME TO UNDERSTAND WHAT
ISSUES -- OR ABOUT ANY ISSUE THAT IS COMING
UP AND WE CAN BETTER REPRESENT THE PEOPLE
AND THE NATURAL RESOURCES IN THE STATE.
EXCUSE ME, LET ME GET MY GLASSES.
MR. MOULTRIE: THANK YOU,
COMMISSIONER. ARE THERE ANY CORRECTIONS TO
THE MINUTES OF THE MAY 22, 2004 BOARD
MEETING?
(NO RESPONSE.)
MR. MOULTRIE: IF NOT, THOSE
MINUTES STAND APPROVED AS READ. THE NEXT
ORDER OF BUSINESS IS OLD BUSINESS. IS
THERE ANY OLD BUSINESS THAT NEEDS TO BE
BROUGHT UP?
(NO RESPONSE.)
MR. MOULTRIE: IF NOT, THE NEXT

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ORDER OF BUSINESS IS DEPARTMENTAL REPORTS.

I'D LIKE TO CALL ON COMMISSIONER LAWLEY TO
INTRODUCE EACH DEPARTMENT.
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: THE
DIRECTORS OF THE DIVISION, I WANT TO TAKE A
SECOND TO THANK THEM FOR THE HARD WORK AND
DILIGENT EFFORT THAT THEY DO. WHEN YOU'RE
LOCKED UP IN THE FOLSOM BUILDING ACROSS THE
STREET, YOU'RE NOT REALLY VISIBLE TO A LOT
OF PEOPLE, AND THERE'S A LOT OF DETAIL IN
EVERYTHING AND THERE'S A LOT OF RESEARCH IN
ALL THAT THEY DO, SO I APPRECIATE THEM AND
Y'ALL CERTAINLY SHOULD. AND WE DO HAVE
REPORTS THAT THEY WILL GIVE. THEY HAVE
SOME RECOMMENDATIONS THAT -- TO BE
CONSIDERED IN MARCH, AND, CORKY, IF YOU
DON'T MIND, I WILL CALL ON YOU TO START
WITH. AND THE REASON I'M DOING THAT IS HE
NEEDS TO GET OUT OF HERE.
MR. PUGH: GOOD MORNING. I'LL NOT
GOING TO WEED THROUGH THE REPORT YOU HAVE
IN YOUR PACKET. I'LL JUST CALL YOUR
ATTENTION TO SEVERAL ITEMS IN THERE. THIS

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PAST YEAR WE'VE HAD 63 COMMUNITY FISHING

EVENTS FOR KIDS WITH OVER 12,000
PARTICIPANTS; 48 IN YOUTH DEVELOPMENT WITH
OVER 1500 YOUTH. 29 PERCENT OF THOSE KIDS,
THAT'S THEIR FIRST HUNTING EXPERIENCE.
WE'VE GOT 70 SCHOOLS CERTIFIED IN OUR
DEPARTMENT OF SCHOOLS PROGRAM. 40 OF THOSE
SCHOOLS ARE ACTUALLY IMPLEMENTING A
TWO-WEEK DEPARTMENT PROGRAM IN THEIR PE
CLASS WITH THE KIDS, SO WE'LL CONTINUE TO
FORGE AHEAD WITH THOSE OUTREACH EFFORTS.
JUST CALL YOUR ATTENTION TO SOME OF THE
OTHER THINGS IN YOUR PACKET. WE FORMED THE
ALABAMA QUAIL COUNCIL, AND WE REALLY ARE
VERY OPTIMISTIC ABOUT WHAT WE MAY BE ABLE
TO DO TO BRING QUAIL BACK. THE WILDLIFE
ENHANCEMENT UNIT HAS BEEN FORMED TO STEP UP
OUR EFFORTS TO WORK AS PRIVATE LANDOWNERS.
PRIVATE LANDOWNERS OWN MOST OF THE WILDLIFE
HABITAT IN THE SOUTHEAST, AND OUR ABILITY
TO IMPACT DECISIONS ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS WITH
THAT HABITAT DEPENDS ON OUR ABILITY TO DEAL
WITH THOSE PRIVATE LANDOWNERS. YOU'RE

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GOING TO SEE US REALLY RAMP UP OUR EFFORTS

TO DO THAT.
CHRONIC WASTE DISEASE
SURVEILLANCE CONTINUED THIS YEAR. THERE
WERE OVER 700 RANDOMLY COLLECTED SPECIMENS,
AND ALL OF THOSE TESTED NEGATIVE. WE DON'T
HAVE CHRONIC WASTE DISEASE IN ALABAMA, AND
WE'LL CONTINUE THAT SURVEILLANCE. WILDLIFE
SECTION PERSONNEL TRAP BAND IN A RELEASE
OVER 1100 MOURNING DOVES AS PART OF A BAND
AID RESEARCH STUDY OF POPULATIONS. THAT'S
PART OF A LARGER NATIONWIDE EFFORT. WE
MAKE ON THE RECORD 56 BALD EAGLE NESTS IN
THE STATE, AND THE BALD EAGLE HAS BEEN
RECOMMENDED FOR DELISTING FOR THE
THREATENED SPECIES. AS FAR AS OUR STAFFING
LEVELS IN ENFORCEMENT, WE'RE CARRYING 25
AGENCIES. WE'LL FILL TEN CONSERVATION
ENFORCEMENT OFFICER POSITIONS THIS YEAR,
AND WE LOOK FOR ABOUT THAT MANY TO RETIRE,
SO THAT'S A CONSTANT ONGOING EFFORT OF
FILLING A HOLE IN A BUCKET AS FAR AS
KEEPING OUR STAFFING LEVELS UP. WE SET UP

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24/7 COVERAGE AS FAR AS COMMUNICATIONS UNIT

SO WHEN THE CITIZENS TRY TO CONTACT
ENFORCEMENT OFFICER, THEY CAN GET AHOLD OF
SOMEBODY RATHER THAN RELYING ON OUR
OFFICERS ANSWERING THE PHONE AT HOME TO TRY
TO DO THAT, WE'VE GOT 24/7 COVERAGE HERE,
AND IT'S WORKING OUT A LOT BETTER.
A COUPLE OF THINGS NOT
IN YOUR REPORT THAT I WANT TO CALL YOUR
ATTENTION TO. WE GAINED APPROVAL A COUPLE
OF WEEKS AGO FROM THE LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT
COMMITTEE ON AUTOMOBILE PLATES, TO SELL
THESE "TAKE A KID FISHING" AUTOMOBILE TAGS.
AND I WOULD ENCOURAGE EVERYBODY TO GO SIGN
UP TO BUY ONE OF THOSE. WE HAVE TO PRESELL
1,000 OF THOSE TAGS BEFORE PRODUCTION
BEGINS. IT'S A GOOD-LOOKING PLATE. THE
BOTTOM OF THE TAG SAYS "TAKE A KID
FISHING." THE PROCEEDS FROM THAT LICENSE
PLATE WILE BE USED FOR THREE PURPOSES: ONE
IS TO IMPROVE FISH HABITAT IN ALABAMA;
ANOTHER IS TO EXPAND THOSE COMMUNITY
FISHING EVENTS FOR KIDS; AND THIRDLY, TO

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RESTORE AQUATIC SPECIES. AND THOSE ARE THE

ONLY PURPOSES FOR WHICH THAT MONEY CAN BE
SPENT.
ANOTHER ITEM I CALL TO
YOUR ATTENTION THERE TO, THERE'S BEEN A LOT
OF TALK OVER THE PAST FEW YEARS ABOUT THE
CLIENT AND HUNTER PARTICIPATION. AND IT
OCCURRED TO ME THAT WE OUGHT TO TRY TO
QUASH THAT. I LOOKED AT THE LICENSE SALES,
AND THESE WERE JUST THE YEARS THAT WERE
READILY AVAILABLE. SINCE 1991, THERE'S
BEEN A 3.7 PERCENT DECLINE -- 3.7 PERCENT.
ANY DECLINE IS UNDESIRABLE, BUT THAT'S ONLY
AN AVERAGE DECLINE PER YEAR FOR THE PAST 13
YEARS OF 0.28 PERCENT. THE REASON I WANT
TO POINT THAT OUT, SOME OF THE ANTI-HUNTERS
WANT TO PAINT A PICTURE OF HUNTING
PARTICIPATION STATISTICALLY DROPPING. IT'S
NOT THAT WAY. WE ARE SLOWLY BLEEDING;
WE'RE NOT HEMORRHAGING. DON'T BUY ANYBODY
TRYING TO CONVINCE THAT YOU HUNTING HAS
FALLEN BY THE WAY SIDE; THAT'S NOT THE CASE
IN ALABAMA.

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I'D LIKE TO POINT OUT

LEGISLATION AND REGULATIONS THAT ARE BEING
PROPOSED. AS YOU LIKELY KNOW, THERE'S BEEN
AN OUTCRY FROM THE MAINSTREAM HUNTING
COMMUNITY ABOUT THE INTERNET BASED CANNED
HUNTS IN TEXAS. IN FACT, I WAS TOLD THAT
THERE WAS AN EPISODE ON CSI THIS WEEK ABOUT
CANNED HUNTING. I DIDN'T SEE IT. THERE
ARE A NUMBER OF STATES THAT ALREADY HAVE IN
PLACE PROHIBITIONS ON CANNED HUNTING.
WE'RE PROPOSING A BILL THAT PROHIBITS SAID
HUNTS WHERE THE HUNTER IS GUARANTEED A
PARTICULAR ANIMAL OR WHERE THE ANIMAL IS
HOBBLED OR TIED OR STAKED OR OTHERWISE
UNABLE TO EVADE THE HUNTER. THE BILL WOULD
PROHIBIT THE HUNTING OF EXOTICS, INCLUDING
BIG CATS. WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THOSE
SITUATIONS IS PEOPLE ARE GETTING RETIRED
CIRCUS ANIMALS, LIONS AND TIGERS, AND IN A
VERY SMALL PEN, MAKING THEM AVAILABLE TO
SOMEBODY TO SHOOT FOR A FEE. GENTLEMEN,
THAT'S NOT HUNTING. OUR ABILITY TO
MAINTAIN THE HIGH LEVEL OF PUBLIC

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ACCEPTANCE THAT WE ENJOY IN ALABAMA FOR

LAWFUL ETHICAL HUNTING DEPENDS ON US
PRESERVING FAIR CHASE. SO IT'S ABSOLUTELY
CRITICAL THAT WE SEE THAT BILL PASSED.
WE HAVE ANOTHER BILL
THAT DEALS WITH THE GAME BREEDERS STATUTE
WITH THE BADLY OUTDATED STATUTE THAT DATES
BACK TO THE 1930S. THERE'S BEEN A
MORATORIUM IN PLACE ON THE ISSUANCE OF GAME
BREEDER LICENSES FOR THE PAST TWO YEARS,
AND THE COMMISSIONER HAS COME UNDER
CONSIDERABLE PRESSURE FROM THE GAME
BREEDERS TO LIFT THAT MORATORIUM. BEFORE
THAT MORATORIUM IS LIFTED, IT'S IMPERATIVE
THAT WE GET THE CANNED HUNT BILL PASSED AND
THAT WE UPDATE THE GAME BREEDERS STATUTE
AND REGULATION. THAT STATUTE PROVIDES FOR
A $10 LICENSE, WHICH IS LUDICROUS,
RIDICULOUS, AND WE WORKED WITH THE GAME
BREEDERS ASSOCIATION TO TRY TO COME UP WITH
SOME LEGISLATION THAT EVERYBODY CAN LIVE
WITH AND WE THINK WE HAVE THAT. I'LL GO
OVER SOME OF THE KEY POINTS OF THAT BILL.

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ESSENTIALLY, WE WOULD PROPOSE $250 FOR ALL

SPECIES EXCEPT MEMBERS OF THE FAMILY
CERVIDAE.
MR. JOHNSON: EXCEPT MEMBERS OF
THE WHAT?
MR. PUGH: BEAR OR FAMILY MEMBERS
OF THE FAMILY CERVIDAE. THE CERVIDAE THAT
THEY KILL WILL BE $50 FOR THE FIRST 50
ANIMALS; $500 FOR 51 TO 100; $1,000 FOR ANY
NUMBER OF ANIMALS IN EXCESS OF 100. THERE
ARE REPORTING REQUIREMENTS SET OUT IN THE
BILL. THERE'S A PENALTY SECTION IN THE
BILL FOR PEOPLE WHO VIOLATE THE LAW IN THAT
BUSINESS. IT WOULD PROVIDE THAT FOR THE
FIRST VIOLATION CONVICTION, THERE WOULD BE
A FINE NO LESS THAN $500 OR MORE THAN
$2,000 FOR EACH OFFENSE, AND AT THE
DISCRETION OF THE COURT, THE GAME BREEDERS
LICENSE PRIVILEGES WOULD BE REVOKED FOR A
PERIOD OF UP TO TWO YEARS FROM THE DATE OF
CONVICTION. SECOND OFFENSES WITHIN FIVE
YEARS WOULD BE PUNISHABLE BY A FINE NOT
LESS THAN $1,000 OR MORE THAN $2,000 FOR

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EACH OFFENSE, AND UPON CONVICTION, ALL GAME

BREEDERS LICENSE PRIVILEGES WOULD BE
REVOKED FOR A PERIOD OF UP TO TWO YEARS
FROM THE DATE OF CONVICTION. THIRD AND
SUBSEQUENT OFFENSE WITHIN FIVE YEARS WOULD
BE PUNISHABLE BY A FINE OF NOT LESS THAN
$2,000 FOR EACH OFFENSE AND ALL GAME
BREEDERS LICENSE PRIVILEGES WOULD BE
REVOKED PERMANENTLY AND ALL STOCK DISPOSED
OF. THERE'S A PROGRESSIVE FINE AND PENALTY
ASSOCIATED WITH THAT. WE'VE ALSO GOT A REG
DEALING WITH GAME BREEDERS THAT I'LL
EXPLAIN IN JUST A LITTLE BIT HERE WHEN WE
GET TO REGS. WE HAVE ANOTHER BILL THAT
DEALS WITH LICENSED SHOOTING PRESERVES.
BRIEFLY HITTING ON SOME OF THE POINTS HERE
THAT WE WANT TO COVER, AND THIS AGAIN IS AN
ANTIQUATED STATUTE THAT DATES BACK FROM THE
'30S. THERE WOULD BE A MINIMUM OF 40 ACRES
AS OPPOSED TO THE PRESENT 100 ACRES. IT
MAKES NO DIFFERENCE THE SIZE OF THE ACREAGE
THAT SOMEBODY IS SHOOTING A QUAIL ON. THE
SIGNAGE WOULD BE MODIFIED SO THAT IT WOULD

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BE REQUIRED ALONG PUBLIC ROADS. THE FEE

WOULD BE INCREASED FROM $25 A YEAR TO $100
A YEAR FOR THE FIRST 100 ACRES, AND THEN $5
FOR EVERY 100 AFTER THAT. THE LICENSE
PROVISION WOULD BE UPDATED. WE'D REPEAL
THE TAGGING REQUIREMENT, REPEAL THE
REQUIREMENT THAT THE LICENSED SHOOTING
PRESERVE KEEP A WRITTEN RECORD OF EVERYBODY
WHO IS HUNTING THERE. THEY'RE SELLING
LICENSES, AND CERTAINLY WE CAN LOOK AT
THOSE LICENSES IF WE NEED TO. THAT'S ABOUT
IT ON THE LICENSED SHOOTING PRESERVE.
THERE'S ANOTHER BILL
DEALING WITH THE SCIENTIFIC COLLECTOR
PERMIT. THIS AGAIN IS A VERY, VERY OLD
STATUTE THAT REQUIRES A $1 FEE FOR ANYBODY
WHO'S COLLECTING PROTECTED ANIMALS OR BIRDS
OR EGGS FOR ANY PURPOSES. WE SELL 600 OF
THOSE $1 PERMITS A YEAR. AND WHAT WE
PROPOSE IS THAT THREE CATEGORIES OF PERMITS
BE ESTABLISHED IN THE LAW, ONE OF THEM A
GENERAL PERMIT FOR INDIVIDUALS FOR $50; AN
EDUCATIONAL PERMIT FOR PROFESSORS OR

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TEACHERS WHERE ALL THEIR STUDENTS COULD

OPERATE UNDER THEIR PERMIT FOR $10; AND A
MASTER COLLECTING PERMIT INVOLVING MORE
THAN ONE INDIVIDUAL ACTING IN THE NAME OF A
FIRM, CORPORATION, OR AGENCY, FOR $100. AN
EXAMPLE OF THAT WOULD BE NOAA. WE ISSUED
40 $1 PERMITS TO THE NATIONAL OCEANIC
ATMOSPHERIC ADMINISTRATION A YEAR. SO WHAT
WE'RE TRY DO WITH THAT BILL IS REDUCE THE
BUREAUCRACY FOR THE PERMITTEES AND FOR OUR
AGENCY.
WE HAVE ANOTHER BILL
AGAIN DEALING WITH A VERY ANTIQUATED
STATUTE TO REPEAL THE LAW REQUIRING THAT
ALL GARFISH THAT ARE CAUGHT BE KILLED
BEFORE THEY'RE RETURNED TO THE WATER. AND
THAT BILL DATES BACK TO AN ERA WHERE IT WAS
BELIEVED THAT ROUGH FISH WERE UNDESIRABLE,
THAT THEY SOMEHOW COMPETED WITH THE GAME
FISH AND THAT BIG FISH WITH A LOT OF TEETH
COULDN'T POSSIBLY BE GOOD. IF THAT BILL
PASSES, IT WON'T BE ILLEGAL TO KILL A GAR,
BUT AT LEAST YOU WON'T BE VIOLATING THE LAW

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IF YOU DON'T KILL THEM.

WE HAVE ANOTHER BILL
TO AMEND THE HUNTER EDUCATION LAW. THERE'S
BEEN A CONCERN FOR A LONG TIME THAT HUNTER
EDUCATION REQUIREMENTS ARE A BARRIER TO
PARTICIPATION FOR BEGINNING HUNTERS. AND
THIS BILL WOULD ALLOW SOMEBODY WHO IS OVER
16 AND HAS TO HAVE A LICENSE TO HUNT TO GET
THAT LICENSE. IT WOULD BE A RESTRICTED
LICENSE IF THEY DIDN'T HAVE HUNTER ED. AND
THE ONLY WAY THEY CAN HUNT WOULD BE WITH A
LICENSED HUNTER OVER THE AGE OF 25. AND
HOPEFULLY THAT INDIVIDUAL WOULD THEN GO ON
TO TAKE HUNTER ED AND GET CERTIFIED. IT
WOULD BE A WAY FOR, SAY, A 16-YEAR OLD WHO
THINKS HE MIGHT LIKE TO GO HUNTING, OR FOR
THAT MATTER, A 30-YEAR OLD WHO THINKS HE
MIGHT LIKE TO GO HUNTING WHO DOESN'T YET
HAVE HUNTER ED TO HUNT UNDER THE
SUPERVISION AND CONTROL OF ANOTHER LICENSED
HUNTER OVER 25.
WE HAVE ANOTHER BILL
TO AMEND THE LAW REGARDING FEES FOR PEOPLE

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WHO SHOOT ON OUR SHOOTING RANGES. THE WAY

THE LAW READS NOW, IT SAYS WHOEVER USES A
SHOOTING RANGE ON STATE-OPERATED WILDLIFE
MANDATORY AREAS WILL BE REQUIRED TO HAVE
THAT -- WELL, WE HAVE SOME SHOOTING RANGES
THAT WE OPERATE THAT ARE NOT ON MANAGEMENT
AREAS. A VERY POPULAR RANGE, FOR INSTANCE,
IN ETOWAH COUNTY. AND THIS WOULD ALLOW US
TO CHARGE THAT FEE FOR ALL THOSE RANGES.
WE ALSO OPERATE SOME RANGES IN PARTNERSHIP
WITH OTHER AGENCIES LIKE THE FOREST
SERVICE. THERE'S A PROVISION IN THE BILL
THAT WILL RECOGNIZE THE PERMITS THAT ARE
ISSUED BY THE FOREST SERVICE SO SOMEBODY
WOULDN'T BE FACED WITH A NEW PERMITTING
REQUIREMENT.
THERE'S BEEN
CONSIDERABLE CONFLICT -- SOME PEOPLE HAVE
HEARD ABOUT IT FROM PEOPLE WHO ARE UNDER
THEIR DISTRICT THIS YEAR BETWEEN DUCK
HUNTERS AND LAKESHORE HOMEOWNERS THAT GOES
ALONG WITH A SIMILAR CONFLICT THAT OCCURRED
ON GUNTERSVILLE EARLIER ON. WE'VE RESISTED

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ATTEMPTS TO RESTRICT HUNTERS, PARTICULARLY

WATER FOUL HUNTERS, ON THOSE LAKES. IN
FACT, THERE WAS A PROPOSAL SEVERAL YEARS
AGO TO CLOSE ALL OF LAKE GUNTERSVILLE OR A
BIG PORTION OF IT TO DUCK HUNTERS. WE'RE
NOT IN FAVOR OF THAT. HOWEVER, THE
CONFLICT BETWEEN THOSE WATER FOUL HUNTERS
AND PEOPLE WITH HOUSES ON THE BANK HAS
ESCALATED TO THE POINT WHERE WE FEEL LIKE
IT NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED. ALABAMA HAS FOR
DECADES PLACED LIMITS ON PEOPLE BEING ABLE
TO HUNT ADJACENT TO A PUBLIC HIGHWAY OR A
RAILROAD. AND IT WOULD LOGICALLY FOLLOW
THAT THERE SHOULD BE SOME PROTECTION AROUND
PEOPLE'S HOUSES. THE COMMISSIONER'S HAD
SOME DISCUSSIONS WITH A COUPLE OF MEMBERS
OF THE LEGISLATURE WHO HAVE TALKED ABOUT
ADDRESSING IT THROUGH LAW. WE WOULD MUCH
RATHER SEE IT ADDRESSED THROUGH A
REGULATION. I'M NOT COMFORTABLE SEEING THE
LEGISLATURE DEALING WITH A BILL THAT'S
GOING TO RESTRICT HUNTING PRIVILEGES.
THERE ARE TOO MANY UNPREDICTABLE VARIABLES

00021
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THERE. THERE'S TOO MUCH OF AN OPPORTUNITY

FOR THE ANTI-HUNTERS TO START TO LOBBY TO
MAKE IT MORE RESTRICTIVE THAN IT REALLY
NEEDS TO BE. THE REGULATION THAT WE'VE GOT
WE FEEL LIKE IS A REASONABLE APPROACH THAT
PROTECTS THE HOMEOWNER WITHOUT UNDULY
RESTRICTING THE HUNTER. AND I'LL JUST READ
YOU THE PERTINENT PORTIONS OF IT HERE. IT
WOULD BE UNLAWFUL TO HUNT OR ATTEMPT TO
HUNT WITHIN 100 YARDS OF ANY DWELLING
BELONGING TO ANOTHER, WHETHER OCCUPIED OR
NOT, WITHOUT THE PERMISSION OF THE OWNER.
UNLAWFUL FOR ANY PERSON TO DISCHARGE A
FIREARM WHILE HUNTING IN SUCH A MANNER THAT
ANY PROJECTILE STRIKES ANY LAND BELONGING
TO SOMEBODY ELSE OR ANY COMMERCIAL VESSEL
WITHOUT THE PERMISSION OF THE OWNER. THAT
WOULD HELP US IN DEALING WITH THESE
SUBDIVISION DOVE HUNTS. OUR ENFORCEMENT
OFFICERS GET CALLS EVERY YEAR DURING DOVE
SEASON ABOUT SOMEBODY WHO IS PUTTING ON A
DOVE SHOOT IN A SUBDIVISION AND SPRINKLING
PEOPLE'S HOME WITH BIRD SHOT, AND THE

00022
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OFFICER GETS THERE AND THERE'S REALLY

NOTHING HE CAN DO BECAUSE IT'S NOT AGAINST
THE LAW. SO WE FEEL THAT THAT REGULATION
WOULD WORK LONG TERM TO PROTECT THE
INTEREST OF HUNTERS BECAUSE WE'VE CAUSED
PEOPLE TO BE MORE REASONABLE AND
RESPONSIBLE THAN THEY ARE BEING IN SOME
INSTANCES. THE REGULATION I MENTIONED
EARLIER DEALING WITH GAME BREEDERS, THIS
WOULD BE THE DETAILS THAT GO ALONG WITH
THAT STATUTE. THERE'S A PROVISION DEALING
WITH INVENTORY REQUIREMENTS; A PROVISION
ALLOWING INSPECTION BY AGENTS OF THE
DEPARTMENT; A PROVISION REQUIRING MARKING
THROUGH ELECTRONICALLY IDENTIFIABLE
IMPLANTS INVOLVING CERVIDAE; A PROVISION
DEALING WITH IDENTIFYING THE LOCATION AND
NOTIFYING US IF THE LOCATION CHANGES;
NOTIFICATION OF THE DIVISION OF ANY ESCAPES
OR DEATHS AND ALLOWING ANIMAL TESTING OF
THE ANIMALS THAT HAVE DIED; A PROVISION
PROHIBITING THE MOVEMENT FOR REMOVAL OF ANY
ANIMALS THAT HAVE DIED WHERE THERE'S A

00023
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DOCUMENTED DISEASE RISK. FOR SPECIES OF

FAMILY CERVIDAE MAINTAINING A PREMISES
REGISTRATION NUMBER AND COMPLYING WITH THE
CONDITIONS OF THE EARTH HEALTH MONITORING
PLAN THAT'S IN PLACE WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF
AGRICULTURE; AND A PROVISION THAT WOULD
ALLOW THE COMMISSIONER TO ORDER THE
CONFISCATION AND DESTRUCTION OF ANY ANIMAL
THAT'S DEEMED TO BE A SUBSTANTIAL DISEASE
RISK.
THE LAST REGULATION WE
HAVE IS ONE THAT WOULD MODIFY THE REG THAT
PROHIBITS IMPORTATION OF A VARIETY OF
SPECIES. WE WOULD RECOMMEND THAT SEMEN, AS
IN SEMEN STRAWS, BE REMOVED FROM THAT REG.
THERE WAS AN INDICATION WHEN WE ASKED IT TO
BE PUT IN THE REG THAT PERHAPS CWD COULD BE
TRANSMITTED THROUGH THE IMPORTATION OF
SEMEN STRAWS. AND IT TURNS OUT THERE'S NO
SCIENTIFIC BASIS FOR THAT, SO WE WOULD
RECOMMEND THAT THAT BE REMOVED. HOWEVER,
IF IN THE FUTURE IT BECAME EVIDENT THAT
THERE WAS SOME RISK OF CWD TRANSMISSION OR

00024
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ANYTHING ELSE, THEN WE WOULD ASK THAT IT BE

PUT BACK IN THE REG. ALSO WE'RE
RECOMMENDING THAT BISON OR BUFFALO BE
STRUCK FROM THAT DIVISION ON IMPORTATION.
THERE IS A BUFFALO FARMING INDUSTRY IN THE
STATE, AND WE RECOGNIZE THOSE BUFFALO AS
FARM ANIMALS. THEY'RE REGULATED BY THE
DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE AS FAR AS
DISEASE, AND AS LONG AS THOSE FOLKS ARE
COMPLYING WITH THOSE REQUIREMENTS, THEN WE
DON'T SEE ANY REASON TO PROHIBIT
IMPORTATION.
COMMISSIONER, DO YOU
WANT ME TO GO AHEAD AND DEAL WITH THE
SEASONS AND LIMITS AT THIS POINT OR WAIT
UNTIL AFTER THE OTHER DIVISION REPORTS?
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: CORKY, WE
CAN. YOU KNOW, WE'RE GOING TO POST THESE
SEASONS AND LIMITS ON OUR WEBSITE. WHY
DON'T YOU JUST -- ANY CHANGES THAT MAYBE
Y'ALL HAVE MADE OR ARE SUGGESTING?
MR. PUGH: OKAY. WHAT I'D LIKE TO
DO IS CALL ON ASSISTANT DIRECTOR FRED

00025
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HARDERS TO DEAL WITH THAT. I DON'T

PARTICIPATE IN THE PREPARATIONS OF THE
SEASONS AND LIMITS RECOMMENDATIONS. THAT'S
A LONG-STANDING PRACTICE IN OUR DIVISION.
AND FRED, IF YOU'LL COME UP AND TALK ABOUT
THAT, I'D APPRECIATE IT.
MR. HARDERS: GOOD MORNING. YOU
SHOULD HAVE AN UPDATED VERSION OF OUR
SEASONS AND BAG LIMIT RECOMMENDATIONS IN
YOUR PACKET FOR CONSIDERATION AT THE NEXT
MEETING. THE UPDATES, COMPARED TO WHAT YOU
RECEIVED SEVERAL WEEKS AGO, ARE HIGHLIGHTED
IN YELLOW AND DEAL WITH CLARIFICATION OF
RESTRICTION OF AREAS AND THE ADDITION OF
TWO DAYS TO CERTAIN CORE SERVICE LANDS AS
PER CORE SERVICE REQUESTS. ALL OTHER
CHANGES WERE LISTED ON THE RESPECTIVE PAGE.
MOST OF THE CHANGES DEALT WITH DATE
CHANGES, IF AN OPENING DATE FELL ON A -- A
TRADITIONAL OPENING DATE FELL ON A SUNDAY,
WE WOULD BACK IT UP TO A SATURDAY.
LIBERALIZATION OF A FEW COUNTIES ON DOE
HARVEST. BASICALLY, THOSE ARE THE MAJOR

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CHANGES. IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, I'D BE

HAPPY TO ADDRESS THEM.
MR. MAY: I NOTICED UNDER THE
TURKEY SEASONS, COUNTIES THAT HAVE FALL
SEASON, THERE'S NOTHING THERE TO INFORM
THEM THAT DECOY IS NOT TAKEN ON THAT SHEET.
MR. HARDERS: WELL, WE'LL
CERTAINLY PUT THAT IN THERE. THAT WOULD BE
IN THE REG BOOK, BUT WE CAN PUT A COMMENT
IN HERE.
MR. WILLIS: I'VE GOT A QUESTION.
I MIGHT HAVE MISSED IT, BUT I DIDN'T HEAR
ANYTHING ON THE LEGISLATION FOR HUNTING
OVER BAIT. IT'S POPULAR IN MY DISTRICT AND
I ASK THIS QUESTION -- THERE MAY BE A BILL.
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: THERE IS A
BILL THAT HAS BEEN INTRODUCED BY SENATOR
PENN. HE PROBABLY WILL BRING IT UP BECAUSE
IT'S NOT IN HIS PACKET.
MR. PUGH: THERE A BILL THAT'S
BEEN INTRODUCED BY SENATOR PENN THAT'S
SENATE 224. IT'S IDENTICAL, AS BEST WE CAN
TELL, AS THE SUBSTITUTED VERSION FROM LAST

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SESSION. THERE WAS ALL KIND OF TENTACLES

LIKE AN OCTOPUS, SATISFYING ALL THE
OBJECTIONS TO HUNTING OVER BAIT, AND IT'S
OUR UNDERSTANDING THAT IT WAS ASSIGNED THE
JUDICIARY COMMITTEE RATHER THAN
CONSERVATION COMMITTEE IN THE SENATE, WHICH
IS PRETTY ODD. PREDICTIONS ARE IT WILL
COME OUT IN THE COMMITTEE. WE'RE VERY
HOPEFUL THAT THE SENATE WILL NOT SEE FIT TO
TAKE IT UP, MUCH LESS PASS IT.
MR. MOULTRIE: IF EVERYBODY WILL
LOOK IN THEIR PACKET, THERE WAS A SECTION
ON DOVE SEASON RECOMMENDATIONS. YOU HAD
COME UP WITH A RECOMMENDATION FOR DOVE
SEASON. IF YOU COULD TELL THE BOARD ABOUT
HOW Y'ALL CAME TO THAT CONCLUSION, WHAT
THAT IS.
MR. PUGH: OKAY. I'M GOING TO ASK
FRED TO DEAL WITH THAT. WE, AT THE REQUEST
OF THE CHAIR, PROVIDED SOME DATES THAT YOU
COULD WORK WITH AS YOU PRESS THROUGH THE
DOVE SEASON.
MR. HARDERS: THE ORIGINAL

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RECOMMENDATION THAT CAME FROM US, SINCE

THERE WAS NO BIOLOGICAL PREFERENCE AS TO
WHEN TO SET DOVE SEASON AS LONG AS YOU WERE
WITHIN THE FEDERAL REGISTER, WAS TO LET THE
BOARD SET THOSE, AND WHEN ASKED FOR DATES,
WE SUPPLIED THE DATES THAT ARE IN THE
PACKET BASED ON THE FEDERAL REGISTER AND
VARIOUS REQUESTS FROM THE PUBLIC. YOU
SHOULD HAVE THAT SEPARATELY.
MR. MAY: IN WHICH PACKET IS THAT?
TODAY'S PACKET?
MR. HARDERS: YES, SIR, I BELIEVE
YOU GOT THEM.
MR. MAY: I DIDN'T SEE IT.
MR. MOULTRIE: FRED, GIVE THOSE
DATES IF YOU WOULD.
MR. HARDERS: FOR THE NORTH ZONE:
SEPTEMBER 17 TO OCTOBER 30, NOVEMBER 24
THROUGH NOVEMBER 27, DECEMBER 24 THROUGH
JANUARY 4. SOUTH ZONE -MR. COLES: EXCUSE ME, WHAT WAS
THE FIRST DATE AGAIN, ON THE NORTH ZONE?
MR. HARDERS: SEPTEMBER 17 THROUGH

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OCTOBER 30. SOUTH ZONE: OCTOBER 8 THROUGH

NOVEMBER 6, NOVEMBER 24 THROUGH NOVEMBER
27, DECEMBER 10 THROUGH JANUARY 14.
MR. MAY: WHY IS THE CHANGE? IS
THERE SOME REASON FOR THE CHANGE FROM WHAT
WE HAD?
MR. HARDERS: THESE WERE JUST
ALTERNATIVE DATES THAT WERE SUGGESTED.
MR. MAY: IT JUST SEEMED LIKE WE
HAVEN'T HAD -- I HAVEN'T HAD ANY COMPLAINTS
ON IT WHATSOEVER.
MR. HARDERS: SOME STAFF RECEIVED
COMMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC, BUT THIS IS JUST
AN ALTERNATIVE FOR THE BOARD TO CONSIDER.
OUR ORIGINAL RECOMMENDATION WAS TO LET THE
BOARD SET THE DATES. WE DIDN'T SUPPLY
DATES, BUT WHEN ASKED TO GIVE SOME
SUGGESTED DATES, THIS IS WHAT WE CAME UP
WITH.
MR. MAY: WELL, I'D LIKE TO
RECOMMEND THE NORTH ZONE REMAIN WITH WHAT
WE HAD.
MR. HARDERS: WELL, THESE WERE

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JUST DATES THAT WERE SUGGESTED, AND LIKE I

SAID, SINCE THERE WAS NO BIOLOGICAL REASON
-- PREFERENCE FOR US, AS LONG AS YOU'RE IN
THE FEDERAL REQUIREMENTS.
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: IF YOU WOULD
GET THOSE COMPLAINTS FROM THE HUNTERS TO
DR. MAY WHERE HE CAN LOOK AT IT, BECAUSE
IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO KNOW WHAT LOCATION
AND WHAT COUNTIES THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.
THESE WILL BE POSTED, AND EVERYBODY THAT'S
INTERESTED IN THEIR DOVE HUNTING SEASON FOR
NORTH ZONE OR SOUTH ZONE, IN THE SOUTH ZONE
YOU HAVE ROSS SELF AND BILL HATLEY. IF -MR. COLES: AND LEWIS COLES.
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: OH, YOU'RE
IN THE SOUTH ZONE ALSO?
MR. COLES: SEVEN OUT OF 11.
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: YEAH, OKAY.
BUT WHAT WE NEED IS AN AGREEMENT FROM THE
HUNTERS. WE REALLY DON'T CARE. I MEAN, WE
WANT TO PUT WHATEVER DATES IN THERE ARE
BEST FOR Y'ALL FOR HUNTING DOVE. SO IF
Y'ALL CAN AGREE ON THE DATE, CONTACT YOUR

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REPRESENTATIVES AND YOUR BOARD MEMBERS THAT

ARE REPRESENTING YOUR AREAS, AND AT THE
NEXT MEETING, WHEN WE VOTE ON THIS ISSUE,
HOPEFULLY WE'LL HAVE SOME DATES FOR THE
NORTH ZONE AND THE SOUTH ZONE THAT
EVERYBODY CAN BE PLEASED WITH. MOST OF THE
COMPLAINTS THAT I GOT, DR. MAY, WERE FROM
THE SOUTH ZONE AND NOT THE NORTH ZONE. BUT
I -- WE'RE GOING TO GET OUT OF ORDER IN
JUST A LITTLE BIT IF YOU DON'T MIND,
BECAUSE SENATOR PENN, WHO IS HERE TODAY,
WOULD LIKE TO SAY A FEW WORDS AND IS GOING
TO HAVE TO LEAVE, SO I'D LIKE TO CALL ON
SENATOR JACK BIDDLE.
SENATOR BIDDLE: THANK YOU, MR.
COMMISSIONER. I DIDN'T KNOW THAT I REALLY
WANTED TO SAY ANYTHING, BUT NOW THAT I'M
HERE, I WILL. MR. CHAIRMAN, MEMBERS OF THE
COMMITTEE. I'VE BEEN ON BOTH SIDES OF THIS
THING, AND I THINK I LIKE THIS SIDE OUT
HERE A LITTLE BIT BETTER. SOMETIMES IT'S
EASIER TO GET OUT OF THE BUILDING. WE USED
TO HAVE QUITE SOME SHOW SOME TIME AGO WHEN

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MOST OF THE MEMBERS WERE ELECTED AT LARGE,

AND I PUT THE LEGISLATION IN THAT ELECTED
THEM FROM CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT. I THINK
THAT SERVED THE PEOPLE BETTER. I WOULDN'T
GET TOO WORKED UP OVER THE BAIT BILL.
PEOPLE ARE GOING TO DO IT ANYWAY; YOU KNOW
THAT. SO DON'T MAKE IT LEGAL OR ILLEGAL.
AND I COMMEND Y'ALL ON SOME OF THE THINGS
THAT Y'ALL HAVE DONE. Y'ALL ARE A LOT MORE
AGGRESSIVE THAN WE EVER WERE. WE WERE
ALWAYS AFRAID OF CHARLES. AND I'M SPEAKING
OF CHARLES KELLY. I LOVE HIM DEARLY. BUT
YOU KNOW, CHARLES THOUGHT EVERY COON,
RABBIT, SQUIRREL, AND POSSUM BELONGED TO
HIM, AND WE THOUGHT IT DID TOO. BUT
ANYWAY, I APPRECIATE THE JOB YOU OFFICERS
DO, AND I APPRECIATE Y'ALL'S JOB, AND ANY
LEGISLATION THAT YOU HAVE IN MIND OR SOME
THAT YOU DON'T LIKE AND LIKE ONE OF THE
REGULATIONS I JUST HEARD THAT I DON'T LIKE,
AND CORKY, WHILE YOU'RE HERE, ON THIS 100
YARD DEAL, IF I HAD A PATCH OF LAND RIGHT
HERE AND A GUY OVER HERE ON THIS SIDE

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DIDN'T WANT ME TO HUNT, AND A GUY ON THIS

SIDE DIDN'T WANT ME TO HUNT, THAT'S 200
YARDS OUT OF MY LAND THERE THAT I CAN'T
HUNT, AND I DON'T THINK THAT ONE WILL GO
VERY FAR. BUT ANYWAY, THANK Y'ALL FOR
LETTING ME SPEAK HERE. IF I CAN BE OF ANY
HELP, HOLLER AT ME. OH, EXCUSE ME. I
FORGET GOVERNOR WYNDHAM IS HERE WITH US
ALSO.
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: HE IS.
(APPLAUSE.)
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: GOVERNOR
WYNDHAM, WOULD YOU LIKE TO SAY A FEW WORDS?
GOVERNOR WYNDHAM: THANK YOU,
COMMISSIONER. AND AS MOST OF YOU KNOW, I
REPRESENT THE DEER BREEDERS, AND WE
APPRECIATE, COMMISSIONER, MR. CHAIRMAN, AND
MR. HATLEY AND MANY OTHERS ON THE
COMMISSION THAT HAVE HELPED TO PULL THIS
TOGETHER. THE STAFF HAS BEEN VERY GOOD AT
COMING UP WITH LEGISLATION THAT SENATOR
BIDDLE HAS AGREED TO SPONSOR. THE BREEDERS
ARE VERY CONCERNED ABOUT CWD AND OTHER

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ISSUES. I THINK WE'VE GOT A VERY WORKABLE

WAY TO DEAL WITH IT, AND CERTAINLY THE
BREEDERS SUPPORT THE PROHIBITION ON CANNED
HUNTS, WHICH IS NOT GOOD FOR ANYONE WHICH I
THINK SENATOR BIDDLE IS ALSO GOING TO
HANDLE. ONCE AGAIN, I WANT TO THANK YOU ON
BEHALF OF THE DEER BREEDERS FOR YOUR WORK
IN PUTTING THIS TOGETHER. WE DO HAVE AN
AGREED BILL AND AGREED REGULATIONS, AND
HOPEFULLY THE WILL OF THE LEGISLATURE WILL
BE TO ADOPT CERTAIN BILLS OF THE
LEGISLATION. THANK Y'ALL VERY MUCH.
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: THANK YOU,
GOVERNOR. CORKY, DON'T YOU AND JACK GET
INTO A DEBATE. THIS IS NOT THE TIME OR THE
PLACE.
MR. PUGH: I LEARNED A LONG TIME
AGO NOT TO ARGUE WITH JACK BIDDLE. BUT I
DID WANT TO POINT OUT -- THIS IS SOMETHING
I FAILED TO MENTION; THAT'S MY FAULT. IN
THIS REG THERE IS A PROVISION THAT IT WOULD
NOT APPLY TO A LANDOWNER OR MEMBER OF HIS
OR HER IMMEDIATELY FAMILY ON THEIR OWN

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PROPERTY, PROVIDED THAT NO PROJECTILE

STRIKES ANYBODY ELSE'S.
SENATOR BIDDLE: I KNEW YOU WOULD
DO THE RIGHT THING.
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: THAT'S GOOD
THINKING ON YOUR FEET, CORKY. WE ALSO -RILEY SMITH, MY PREDECESSOR -- OH, THERE
YOU ARE. I'VE BEEN WAITING ON YOU. WE'LL
CALL ON YOU NOW, BECAUSE I UNDERSTAND
YOU'VE GOT SOME CONFLICTS TODAY ALSO. WE
APPRECIATE YOU COMING.
MR. SMITH: COMMISSIONER,
CHAIRMAN, THANK YOU, I WON'T TAKE TOO MUCH
OF YOUR TIME. I'M HERE REPRESENTING MYSELF
TODAY -- WE'LL COME ON BOARD LATER AFTER
THEY'VE GOT CHANCE TO REVIEW CERTAIN
THINGS. BUT I THINK THERE ARE TWO VERY
IMPORTANT THINGS THAT WILL -- BEEN MY
PERSONAL PHILOSOPHY THAT WILL MAINTAIN THE
SPORT OF HUNTING THAT I KNOW ALL OF US IN
THIS ROOM LOVE. AND THE FIRST IS TO
ENCOURAGE YOUNGSTERS TO HUNT WITH THEIR
PARENTS -- MOTHERS, FATHERS, WHATEVER. BUT

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THE SECOND IS MAINTAINING THE ETHICS OF THE

SPORT. GOVERNOR WYNDHAM, SENATOR BIDDLE I
THINK HAVE A GOOD BILL, THE GAME BREEDERS
BILL. I'VE TALKED TO COMMISSIONER LAWLEY
ABOUT IT AND THE STAFF HAS WORKED
EXTENSIVELY ON THE BILL. I KNOW
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY HAS, WHO I HAVE TALKED
TO A COUPLE OF TIMES ABOUT THIS AND IS
COMMITTED TO HAVE THE LEGISLATION IN PLACE
OR REGULATIONS IN PLACE BEFORE THE
MORATORIUM IS LIFTED. I THINK THE GAME
BREEDERS BILL IS GOOD. IT'S A LITTLE PAST
ME, BUT I'VE DONE EVERYTHING I CAN, AS I
KNOW WE ALL ARE. BUT THE CANNED HUNT BILL,
I THINK -- I KNOW -- I ASSUME MOST
EVERYBODY SAW THE PIECE ABOUT THE TEXAS
MATTER, WHICH TO ME IS JUST OVERLY INSANE.
THERE'S ACTUALLY AN PLACE JUST NORTH OF OUR
PLACE IN MCINTOSH AND THE GUYS GOT GOATS
AND WHATEVER, I'M NOT SURE WHAT ALL HE'S
GOT OUT THERE. BUT HE'S GOT ONE LITTLE PEN
WHERE HE'S RAISING THEM AND HE PUTS THEM IN
ANOTHER PEN AND SOMEBODY GOES OUT THERE AND

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SHOOTS THEM. THAT'S GOING TO KILL THE

SPORT WE ALL LOVE. AND Y'ALL HAVE GOT A
REALLY GOOD HORSE TO CARRY THE GAME
BREEDERS BILL IN SENATOR BIDDLE. HE AND I
WORKED TOGETHER FOR FOUR YEARS AND WHEN HE
GETS THAT BUSINESS, YOU JUST HAVE TO DEAL
WITH IT. AND I WOULD HOPE THAT HE AND
OTHERS WILL SEE FIT TO GET BEHIND THIS
CANNED HUNTING BUSINESS. I THINK IT'S
CRITICAL THAT THE LAW ENFORCEMENT STAFF BE
GIVEN THE VEHICLE TO SHUT THAT KIND OF
THING DOWN, AND I STRONGLY URGE YOU TO DO
WHATEVER NECESSARY TO SEE THAT DIVISION DO
THAT. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: THANK YOU.
(APPLAUSE.)
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: VERN MINTON
WITH MARINE RESOURCES.
MR. MINTON: THANK YOU
MR. COMMISSIONER, MR. CHAIRMAN, MEMBERS OF
THE BOARD. THERE IS A REPORT FROM MARINE
RESOURCES IN YOUR PACKET, AND I WON'T READ
THAT TO YOU. I JUST HAVE A FEW ITEMS I'D

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LIKE TO GO OVER. MOST OF THOSE,

UNFORTUNATELY, DEAL WITH HURRICANE IVAN AND
ITS IMPACTS ON US. LAST YEAR I REPORTED TO
THE BOARD THE SUCCESSFUL FOUR AND A HALF
MILE SALTWATER PIPELINE, HOW PROUD WE WERE
OF THAT AND HOW MUCH IT WAS GOING TO CHANGE
THE WAY WE WERE GOING TO CONDUCT OPERATIONS
THERE. IT WAS TIED TO THE GULF STATE PARK
PIER. THE PIER WAS DESTROYED ALONG WITH
OUR PIPELINE UP TO THE ROAD, AND IT LOOKS
LIKE WE'RE GOING TO BE PROBABLY IN EXCESS
OF TWO YEARS OF GETTING THAT BACK. SO IT'S
A MAJOR SETBACK. ANOTHER THING THAT'S
GOING TO BE A MAJOR SETBACK IN THE
COMMUNITY, THERE WAS A LOT OF THE MARINAS
WHICH HOUSED THE CHARTER FLEET AND OTHER
BOATS WERE DESTROYED. THEY CAN BUILD BACK,
BUT UNFORTUNATELY, BECAUSE OF BUSINESS
OPPORTUNITIES, WE'VE SEEN A LOT OF THE
MARINAS SOLD NOW TO CONDOMINIUM DEVELOPERS.
THAT HAS PLACED A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF
STRESS ON THE CHARTER FLEET, AND THAT FLEET
CONTRIBUTES BETWEEN 60 AND 90 MILLION

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DOLLARS TO THE ECONOMY OF SOUTH ALABAMA.

FORTUNATELY, THE TOWN OF ORANGE BEACH HAS
STEPPED FORWARD AND PURCHASED THE MARINA TO
USE FOR PUBLIC HOUSING OF THESE CHARTER
FLEETS. I THINK IT'S A MAJOR STEP IN THE
RIGHT DIRECTION. WE ALSO SAW DAMAGE TO A
LOT OF THE SEAFOOD DEALER SHOPS IN THE AREA
WHICH WERE LOCATED ON THE WATER. THERE WAS
SUBSTANTIAL DAMAGE. IT'S TAKEN A WHILE FOR
THEM TO GET BACK INTO BUSINESS. RIGHT
AFTER THE STORM WE HAD SURVEYED OUR
ARTIFICIAL REEFS. AND IT LOOKS LIKE WE HAD
COME OUT VERY WELL. WE SENT THREE VESSELS
OFF SHORE WITH A RANDOMIZED SURVEY ATTEMPT
TO LOOK AT THE DIFFERENT REEFS BY LOCATION
AND BY SIZE. WE HAD PLANNED FOR TWO DAYS
BUT WHEN THEY RETURNED THEY FOUND
EVERYTHING BUT ONE SPOT, SO WE'RE VERY
HAPPY WITH THAT. THE DOWN SIDE OF IT ON
THE LIGHTER MATERIALS THAT PEOPLE USED HAD
NOT BEEN FOUND, AND I WAS HOPING IT WOULD
SEND THE MESSAGE TO THE COMMUNITY THAT WE
NEED TO START LOOKING FOR HEAVIER

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MATERIALS. LAST YEAR WE PUT OUT

APPROXIMATELY 222 ARTIFICIAL REEFS BECAUSE
OF THE DONATION OF $50,000 FROM THE
CHAMPIONSHIP TOURNAMENT. WE MATCHED THAT
WITH FEDERAL FUNDS AND WE WERE ABLE TO GET
$200,000 TO PUT THOSE REEFS OUT. WE ALSO
PUT OUT 1300 TONS OF CONCRETE FOR THE
DEMOLITION OF GULF STATE PARK, AND THOSE
WERE PUT INTO AREAS WE THINK WILL BE
SUCCESSFULLY USED. RIGHT NOW I'M PROUD TO
TELL YOU THAT OUR ENFORCEMENT SEGMENT IS
FULLY STAFFED. THAT'S THE FIRST TIME SINCE
THE 1950S. WE ARE VERY PROUD OF THAT, AND
WE'VE GOT GOOD YOUNG OFFICERS ON LINE WHO
ARE REALLY DOING A GOOD JOB FOR US. I HAVE
ONE ACTION ITEM FOR YOU TODAY THAT I'D LIKE
YOU TO CONSIDER FOR THE MARCH MEETING. THE
GULF OF MEXICO FISHERY MANAGEMENT COUNCIL
REVIEWED THE RED GROUPER STOCK ASSESSMENT,
AND THE ASSESSMENT HAD SHOWN THAT THAT
STOCK HAD DECLINED AND THERE WILL BE MORE
PROTECTIVE MEASURES, BOTH COMMERCIALLY AND
RECREATIONALLY. WE RECOMMEND THAT YOU

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ADOPT REGULATIONS COMPATIBLE WITH WHAT THE

FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS DONE NOW, AND THAT
SIMPLY IS THAT OF THE FIVE GROUPER, ONLY
TWO CAN BE RED GROUPER. WE RECOMMEND THAT
ALTHOUGH WE DON'T HAVE A LOT OF RED
GROUPER, THAT KEEPS IT LESS CONFUSING FOR
PEOPLE FISHING IN FEDERAL WATERS AND COMING
INTO STATE WATERS.
LASTLY WE'VE GOT OUR
LEGISLATION, AND I'D LIKE TO ASK MAJOR
JENKINS TO GO OVER THAT.
MR. JENKINS: THIS YEAR WE
ACTUALLY HAVE UP -- THERE'S HOUSE BILL 54,
WHICH HAS DO WITH OUR FINES. IN MOST OF
OUR LAWS, WE ACTUALLY HAVE A DESIGNATED
AMOUNT FOR THE FINE; SOME OF THEM WE DON'T.
BUT THE WAY IT'S WRITTEN RIGHT NOW, THE
FINE IS 25 TO $100. WELL, IN REALITY,
RIGHT NOW IT'S CHEAPER FOR AN OUT OF STATE
SHRIMPER TO COME IN HERE AND SHRIMP WITHOUT
A LICENSE THAN IT IS TO BUY A LICENSE -THE FINE IS CHEAPER. HOUSE BILL 55 IS
ACTUALLY -- HAS A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT

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PARTS. ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT PARTS IS

LIKE IN FLORIDA NOW, MISSISSIPPI,
LOUISIANA, PEOPLE FISH IN THOSE STATES.
YOU'VE GOT TO HAVE A SALTWATER FISHING
LICENSE. IT'S NOT THAT WAY HERE IN
ALABAMA, SO WHAT WE'RE ASKING TO DO IS GO
FORWARD AND BRING US IN LINE WITH OTHER
STATES THIS YEAR -- NO MATTER HOW YOU TAKE
THEM, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A SALTWATER FISHING
LICENSE IN OUR JURISDICTIONAL AREA. WE
ACTUALLY HAD THE CHARTER VOTE ASSOCIATION
THAT CAME TO US TELLING US THE SAME THING.
IF THEY GO FISHING IN A TOURNAMENT IN
MISSISSIPPI, LOUISIANA, TEXAS, THEY HAVE TO
BUY A CHARTER BOAT LICENSE. SO WHAT
THEY'VE ASKED THAT WE DO IS COME BACK AND
SAY IF YOU ACTUALLY CARRY A PASSAGE FOR
FISH AND YOU DOCK AND TRANSFER POSSESSION
OF FISH IN ALABAMA, THAT YOU HAVE TO HAVE A
CHARTER BOAT LICENSE. THEY ALSO WANT TO GO
FORWARD -- AND THIS LAW WAS WRITTEN LAST
TIME -- MOST EVERY LICENSE WE HAVE, IT
COSTS YOU AT LEAST TWICE WHAT IT DOES IN

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ALABAMA FOR A RESIDENT TO BUY A LICENSE OR

WHAT IT WOULD COST FOR OUR PEOPLE TO GO
OVER THERE AND FISH. THAT LANGUAGE WAS NOT
IN THIS LAW, AND WE ASK THAT IT BE PLACED
IN THERE.
WE ACTUALLY ALSO WENT
FORWARD, AND WE HAVE A JURISDICTIONAL BILL.
UNDER FEDERAL LAW RIGHT NOW, OUT OF 200
MILES, IF YOU VIOLATE THE LAW OUT THERE, WE
CAN ACTUALLY FILE THOSE CASES IN AN ALABAMA
COURT. WHAT WE'RE ASKING FOR IN THE
JURISDICTIONAL BILL IS IF YOU GET CAUGHT
ANYWHERE OFF SHORE WITH FISH THAT ARE
ILLEGAL AND IT'S THE SAME VIOLATION OF THE
LAW THAT WE HAVE IN ALABAMA, WE CAN FILE
THAT CASE IN DISTRICT COURT. THERE ARE A
COUPLE OF REASONS FOR THAT. ONE OF THEM IS
OUR DISTRICT COURT SYSTEM IS MORE
USER-FRIENDLY. IT'S EASIER TO WORK
THROUGH. THE FINES ARE NORMALLY LESS. THE
OTHER THING IS, IS WE CAN HANDLE A LOT MORE
OF THE SMALLER CASES THAN THE FEDS EVER
CAN, SO WE CAN ACTUALLY HANDLE SOME OF THE

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SMALLER PROBLEMS OURSELVES A LOT EASIER.

AND IT ALSO HAS TO DO WITH FEDERAL MONEY.
THERE'S A GOOD BIT OF FEDERAL MONEY THAT
COMES INTO THE DIFFERENT STATES THAT IS
ENFORCED BY OFF SHORE. LOUISIANA AND SOUTH
CAROLINA AT THIS TIME HAVE THIS EXACT SAME
LEGISLATION. WE'RE ACTUALLY ASKING THAT
THERE BE A COMMERCIAL CAST NET AND BIG BILL
INTRODUCED. THIS BILL ACTUALLY NOW -- FOR
SOMEBODY TO SELL ANY CATCH, YOU'VE GOT TO
HAVE A COMMERCIAL LICENSE. TODAY WE DON'T
HAVE A COMMERCIAL LICENSE FOR THIS GEAR.
THEREFORE, IT'S BEEN PRETTY WELL ALLOWED
THAT IF THEY BUY A COMMERCIAL HOOK AND LINE
LICENSE, WHICH IS $100, SAME COST THIS
WOULD BE, WE WOULD LET THEM SELL THOSE
FISH. IT COMPLICATES OUR REPORTING SYSTEM.
IT ALSO MAKES WHERE IT DOESN'T REALLY COVER
THOSE YEARS, SO THE COMMERCIAL INDUSTRY
CAME TO US AND ASK THAT WE GO AHEAD AND DO
A LICENSE TO CLARIFY ALL THAT.
THERE ARE TWO OTHER
BILLS OUT THERE THAT ARE GOING TO PROBABLY

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AFFECT US THAT ARE NOT REALLY DEPARTMENTAL

BILLS. ONE OF THEM IS SPECIAL NET SAME
PERMIT. TODAY IN OUR GILL NET FISHERY,
THERE ARE TWO LICENSES THAT YOU CAN HAVE.
ONE OF THEM IS WHAT WE CALL A 505. YOU DO
NOT HAVE TO SHOW YOUR INCOME TO GET THAT
LICENSE, BUT THAT LICENSE DIES WITH YOU; IT
CANNOT BE TRANSFERRED. THEN WE HAVE A 205
LICENSE, WHICH MEANS THE INDIVIDUAL THAT
COMES IN CAN BUY THAT LICENSE, BUT HE HAS
TO PROVE THAT 50 PERCENT OF HIS INCOME
COMES FROM THE CAPTURE AND SALE OF SEAFOOD.
WELL, WE HAVE BEEN IN THIS PERIOD LONG
ENOUGH NOW, WE HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT
ARE GETTING OLDER, GETTING DIFFERENT
BENEFITS AND STUFF, AND THEY'RE HAVING A
PROBLEM PROVING THAT 50 PERCENT OF THEIR
INCOME COMES FROM FISHING. WHAT THESE
PEOPLE WOULD LIKE TO DO IS CHANGE THAT
LICENSE OVER TO A NON-TRANSFERRABLE LICENSE
JUST LIKE OUR 505, AND THAT LICENSE WOULD
DIE WITH THAT INDIVIDUAL. AND SO THAT'S
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT'S BEING PUSHED.

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AND THE OTHER BILL

THAT WE HAVE IS DEALING WITH OUR SEAFOOD
DEALERS LICENSE. AT THIS TIME I WAS
RECOUNTING -- THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE RAISING
SALTWATER POND-RAISED SHRIMP. WE ARE NOT
REPORTING THOSE SHRIMP -- TODAY THEY HAVE
TO HAVE OUR SEAFOOD DEALERS LICENSE TO SELL
THOSE. WE DON'T FEEL LIKE THAT AFFECTS OUR
REPORTING. THEY HAVE COME AND ASKED THE
ORIGINAL FARMER OR CULTURIST THEY CAN
ACTUALLY SELL THAT STUFF TO THE PUBLIC
WITHOUT HAVING TO HAVE OUR LICENSE. SO
THAT BILL WILL BE COMING UP. ONLY OTHER
THING ABOUT IT IS IN THAT BILL, RIGHT NOW
THE PEOPLE THAT SELL THEIR SHRIMP ON THE
SIDE OF THE ROAD ARE GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE
A HEALTH PERMIT. WE ALSO ASK THAT THOSE
THAT HAVE A SEAFOOD DEALERS LICENSE HAVE A
HEALTH PERMIT AND SELL FROM A PERMANENTLY
ERECTED BUILDING. NOW, THIS DOES NOT MEAN
THEY CAN'T SELL OUT OF THEIR TRUCK. THEY
CAN STILL GO TO A FARMERS MARKET, GET THE
HEALTH PERMIT THEMSELVES FROM THERE. IF

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THEY WANT TO GO NEXT TO A BUILDING THAT

ACTUALLY HAS A SHED, THEY CAN PULL UNDER
THERE. A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THE BUSINESS
FEEL LIKE IT WOULD MAKE THOSE PEOPLE MORE
ACCOUNTABLE. SO THAT BILL WILL BE OUT
THERE. THAT PRETTY WELL COVERS OUR LIST.
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: DOES THAT
CONCLUDE -- OKAY. THANK YOU. IN EACH OF
YOUR PACKETS, YOU'LL NOTICE THERE IS A DVD.
THE DVD IS THE VERSION OF ALL THE
COMMERCIALS THAT WE RAN LAST YEAR THROUGH
CONSERVATION TRYING TO PROMOTE HUNTING,
FISHING, OUR NATURAL RESOURCES THROUGHOUT
THE STATE, TRYING TO ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO
TAKE THEIR CHILDREN OUT, ENJOY THE WOODS.
AND CORKY AND I FEEL LIKE THAT'S HAD A
GREAT IMPACT ON THE WAY THAT OUR LICENSES
HAVE TURNED AND PEOPLE ARE BECOMING MORE
INVOLVED. AND WE'RE CERTAINLY GOING TO
KEEP PURSUING THAT BECAUSE WE HAVE A LOT OF
OFFER. I MEAN, I HAD NO IDEA OF WHAT ALL
WE HAD, AND I'M SURE A LOT OF Y'ALL DON'T.
WE'RE TRYING TO PROMOTE WHAT WE HAVE, OUR

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FISHING LAKES, OUR WILDLIFE MANAGEMENT

AREAS, STATE PARKS. AND WHEN YOU SEE A
COMMERCIAL THAT SAYS OUTDOOR ALABAMA DOT
COM, JUST KNOW THAT'S THE DEPARTMENT OF
CONSERVATION TRYING TO PROMOTE THE STATE OF
ALABAMA. OKAY. RICK LILES WITH THE
ADMINISTRATIVE DIVISION.
MR. LILES: GOOD MORNING.
GENTLEMEN, I JUST WOULD POINT TO THAT
SUBJECT OF THE GAS, IF YOU HAVE IN YOUR
PACKET SOME GRASS THAT INDICATES THE USE OF
THE WEBSITE SINCE WE BEGAN THIS PROGRAM.
TIMES ON THE BUSINESS WEB SITE IS UP ABOUT
16 PERCENT AND TIME SPENT ON THE WEBSITE IS
UP OVER 250 PERCENT. ALSO IN YOUR PACKET,
THE FIRST PAGE, THE SECOND TAB IS THE
DEPARTMENT'S FINANCIAL REPORT, AND IT
COMPARES THE LAST THREE YEARS WITH
CONDITION THAT YOU SEE REPORTED THERE DUE
PRIMARILY TO THE CLOSURE OF SOME OF OUR
RESORT PARKS FOR RENOVATION. SO IN THAT
AREA THE BALANCE FORWARD EACH YEAR IS
DECLINING BECAUSE OF THAT LOSS. AS YOU

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CAME IN THIS MORNING, YOU SAW A NEW FEATURE

IN THE DEPARTMENT. WE'VE NOW ESTABLISHED
AN OUTDOOR ALABAMA STORE, AND I COMMEND
YOU. SO I HOPE YOU AND EVERYONE HERE THIS
MORNING WILL VISIT THAT. I HAVE,
MR. CHAIRMAN, A REPORT OF THE PHYSICAL
DAMAGES SUSTAINED BY THE DEPARTMENT AS A
RESULT OF HURRICANE IVAN. I'D JUST LIKE
THAT TO BE PASSED DOWN; YOU CAN PERUSE
THAT. IT DOES NOT INCLUDE REPORTS ON THE
ESTIMATES FOR THE LOSS FOR THE PIER AT GULF
SHORES. WE'RE HANDLING THAT THROUGH RISK
MANAGEMENT AT THE INSURANCE COMPANY. I'LL
BE GLAD TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU HAVE.
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: THANK YOU,
RICK. COMMISSIONER LARRY KELLY, MARINE
POLICE.
MR. KELLEY: GOOD MORNING. THE
REPORT THAT LIEUTENANT CHEFMAN (PHONETIC)
PREPARED FOR Y'ALL, IF YOU HAVE A CHANCE TO
LOOK IT OVER AND SEE THAT THE MARINE POLICE
DIVISION HAS GOTTEN A LOT MORE IN DEMAND
THAN IT HAS IN THE YEARS IN THE PAST. AT

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THE PRESENT TIME, THE CORPS OF ENGINEERS

ARE LOOKING AT APPROVING MARINAS AND
CONDOMINIUM COMPLEXES ALONG THE COAST IN
THE GULF SHORES AREA ALONE. WE'RE STILL
TRYING TO CONTROL ALL THIS. IN OUR EFFORTS
TO CONTROL ALL THIS, THIS PAST YEAR WE
HIRED SEVEN NEW PEOPLE, AND OF COURSE THESE
PEOPLE WERE SCATTERED ALL OVER THE STATE,
AND WE STILL HAVE NUMEROUS VACANCIES OF
WELL OVER 100,000 ACRES OF WATER AND
HUNDREDS OF MILES OF RIVER. WE'VE ALSO -SENATOR BIDDLE HAS INTRODUCED THE
LEGISLATION FOR US TO HANDLE SOME PROBLEMS
THAT WE'VE HAD IN THE PAST WITH SOME
REPORTING ON ACCIDENTS THAT THE MOTORISTS
HAVE. THIS IS STRICTLY DEALING WITH
PROPERTY DAMAGE ONLY; IT'S NOT WITH INJURY
OF OTHER TYPES. THE OLD CRITERIA WAS IF
YOU HAVE AN ACCIDENT AND YOUR VESSEL IS
TORE UP IN THE AMOUNT OF $50, YOU'RE
REQUIRED BY LAW TO SUBMIT A REPORT TO US.
THIS NEW LEGISLATION WE ASK THAT THAT BE
INCREASED TO $2,000. THEY SAY THAT'S QUITE

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A JUMP, BUT IN TODAY'S PRICES, EVEN A

PROPELLER WILL COST YOU OVER 200 OR $300.
ALL THESE REPORTS AND EVERYTHING HAS TO BE
HANDLED BY SOMEONE, SO IF WE CAN REDUCE THE
NUMBER OF FRIVOLOUS REPORTS, IT'LL HELP US
IN THE LONG RUN ON OUR STAFFING AND THOSE
THINGS. ONE THING THAT WE HAVE NOTICED IN
THE PAST, WHEN WE HAVE A SHORTAGE OF
PERSONNEL, WE DO SEE AN INCREASE IN
ACCIDENTS. THIS PAST YEAR WE HAD A
REDUCTION IN THE BOATING ACCIDENTS WITH
INJURIES, BUT WE HAD A 23 PERCENT INCREASE
IN FATALITIES, BOATING ACCIDENT FATALITIES,
AND THAT KIND OF OVERSHADOWED THE DECREASE.
WE ALSO HAVE SOME LEGISLATION IN THAT
SENATOR BIDDLE INTRODUCED FOR US DEALING
WITH BOAT THEFT. SAME DEAL THAT WE
INTRODUCED LAST YEAR. IT PASSED THE SENATE
AND GOT INTO THE HOUSE AND IT DIED WITH THE
FILIBUSTER. THIS BILL MAKES IT ILLEGAL TO
ALTER THE HULL AND IDENTIFICATION NUMBERS
OR THE MOTORS OR THE SERIAL NUMBERS ON THE
MOTORS OR ANY OTHER RELATED EQUIPMENT. AND

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LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT THAT IS

A BIG BUSINESS IN THE STATE OF ALABAMA.
OUR BOAT THEFT INVESTIGATORS OPENED 63
CASES IN THE PAST YEAR. THERE WAS OVER
$486,000 WORTH OF EQUIPMENT STOLEN JUST
LAST YEAR. THAT'S JUST -- THAT'S NOT
ADDING ALL THE CASES THAT YOU HAD ON HAND
BEFOREHAND. SO WE'RE LOOKING AT A VERY BIG
BUSINESS. HURRICANE IVAN CREATED A GOLD
MINE FOR THE PEOPLE -- THE BOATS AND TREES
AND EVERYTHING ELSE DOWN THERE THAT THEY'RE
TRYING TO STEAL. BUT WE MOVED ALL OUR BOAT
THEFT PEOPLE INTO THAT AREA TO TRY TO HELP
THE GENERAL PUBLIC TO GET THEIR BOATS BACK.
WE ALSO HAVE BEEN
CHARGED WITH THE CLEAN WATER VESSEL -CLEAN VESSEL ACT WITH THE MSD LAW THAT WAS
PASSED, THE MARINE SANITATION DEVICE LAW.
WE HAVE INSPECTORS ALL OVER THE STATE.
TODAY THEY'VE INSPECTED 711 BOATS AND
MARINAS, BUT THEY'VE COME BY STATIONS WITH
PROPER MSDS ON BOARD. AND ALL THE BOATS SO
FAR HAVE BEEN IN COMPLIANCE, WHICH WE KIND

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OF EXPECTED THAT BECAUSE SOMEBODY THAT'S

NOT IN COMPLIANCE IS NOT GOING TO VOLUNTEER
TO COME LET US CHECK THEIR BOAT. WE'VE GOT
SOME PROPOSED CHANGES IN THAT LEGISLATION
THAT WILL HELP US WITH THOSE PEOPLE THAT
DON'T WANT TO COMPLY WITH IT. HURRICANE
IVAN DID EXTENSIVE DAMAGE TO OUR FACILITIES
IN ORANGE BEACH. WE HAD OVER $100,000 IN
PIERS AND BUILDINGS AND BOATS. THE BOAT
SLIPS IS ANOTHER THING THAT WAS DAMAGED,
AND MOST OF IT WAS BEYOND REPAIR. SO AT
THIS TIME IT'S ALMOST COMPLETED, THOSE
REPAIRS, AND BY THE END OF THIS NEXT MONTH,
WE SHOULD BE BACK OPERATIONAL, FULL STAFF
DOWN THERE.
COMMISSIONER, WE DON'T
HAVE ANY REGULATIONS AT THIS TIME.
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: ALL RIGHT.
MR. KELLEY: IF THERE'S ANY
QUESTIONS, I'LL BE GLAD TO CLARIFY.
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: WERE THERE
ANY QUESTIONS?
(NO RESPONSE.)

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COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: THANK YOU,

LARRY.
MR. KELLEY: THANK YOU.
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: JIM GRIGGS
WITH THE LANDS DIVISION.
MR. GRIGGS: THANK YOU,
COMMISSIONER. I'LL BE BRIEF THIS MORNING.
YOU HAVE A PACKAGE THAT GIVES YOU A GENERAL
OUTLINE OF WHAT THE LANDS DIVISION WAS
INVOLVED IN IN THE PAST YEAR. I WON'T
COVER THAT. I WILL POINT JUST OUT THAT THE
LANDS DIVISION GENERATED MORE THAN $267
MILLION DOLLARS LAST YEAR FOR THE STATE OF
ALABAMA. YOU MAY HAVE HEARD THAT $31
MILLION WAS RECENTLY DISTRIBUTED TO SCHOOLS
THROUGHOUT THE STATE. THOSE WERE FUNDS
THAT WERE GENERATED BY THE LANDS DIVISION
IN PREVIOUS YEARS, AND THROUGH SOME SNAFU,
IT HAD JUST NOT BEEN DISTRIBUTED OUT TO THE
SCHOOLS. IT COULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED AT A
BETTER TIME, I'M TOLD BY ALL OF THOSE
SUPERINTENDENTS. WE'RE PROUD TO BE A PART
OF THAT. WE'VE DONE A NUMBER OF THINGS

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THAT I'LL POINT OUT THAT ARE NOT IN YOUR

SUMMARY. LAST YEAR WE HAD THE FIRST EVER
ALABAMA COASTAL BIRD FEST. WHAT WE'RE
TRYING TO DO IS TO HAVE A BIRD FESTIVAL.
I'M NOT A BIRD WATCHER, BUT I FIND THAT
THERE ARE MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF PEOPLE
WHO ARE AVID BIRD WATCHERS AND WHO SPEND A
HUGE AMOUNT OF MONEY IN ALABAMA WATCHING
BIRDS. WE'RE TRYING TO WORK WITH THE
TOURISM AND TRAVEL TO ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO
BRING MONEY FROM OUTSIDE THE STATE INTO THE
STATE. IT WAS VERY SUCCESSFUL, THE FIRST
ONE WAS, AND WE NOW HAVE ANOTHER ONE
PLANNED FOR OCTOBER OF THIS YEAR, WHICH WE
THINK WILL BE EVEN BIGGER THAN THAT. WE,
LIKE THE OTHER DEPARTMENTS, HAVE BEEN
INVOLVED IN THE AFTERMATH OF HURRICANE
IVAN. THE CITIES OF GULF SHORES, ORANGE
BEACH, AND THE GULF STATE PARK RIGHT NOW
ARE INVOLVED IN A BEACH RENOURISHMENT
PROGRAM THAT'S COORDINATED BY THE STATE
LANDS DIVISION. THAT'S SUPPOSED TO BE
STARTING NEXT MONDAY, ACTUALLY. I THINK

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THE DREDGE IS ON SITE RIGHT NOW.

WE HAVE A BILL THAT
WILL ALSO ALLOW US TO CUT UP TO $25,000
WORTH OF TIMBER WITHOUT GOING TO PUBLIC
BID, WHERE IT'S SALVAGED TIMBER, WIND
THROWN, SUCH AS HURRICANE-DAMAGED TIMBER OR
TIMBER THAT WE CLEAR FROM BUGS OR
RIGHT-OF-WAY, THAT SORT OF THING. THAT'S
PENDING IN THE LEGISLATURE. WE'VE HAD THAT
BILL INTRODUCED A COUPLE OF TIMES BEFORE.
IT ALMOST PASSED BUT DID NOT. WE HOPE THAT
IT WILL THIS TIME. NOW, I WANTED TO ALSO
REPORT ON THE FOREVER WILD PROGRAM. THIS
YEAR, FOREVER WILD PURCHASED 17,200 ACRES
IN 11 DIFFERENT TRACTS THROUGHOUT THE STATE
OF ALABAMA. THAT'S THE GOOD NEWS. THE
BETTER NEWS IS THAT IN THE COURSE OF THE
FOREVER WILD PROGRAM, WE HAVE PURCHASED
107,000 ACRES OF LAND IN ALABAMA. OF THAT
107,000 ACRES, 95,000 ACRES ARE AVAILABLE
TO HUNTING, PUBLIC HUNTING THROUGHOUT THE
STATE OF ALABAMA. WE ARE VERY PROUD OF
THAT. THE ONLY ACRES THAT ARE NOT

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AVAILABLE TO PUBLIC HUNTING ARE ACRES THAT

ARE IN PARTS OR EITHER WITHIN A CITY LIMIT
WHERE THE CITY WOULD PREVENT HUNTING.
THAT'S THE GOOD NEWS. WE HAVE SOME BAD
NEWS FOR FOREVER WILD. TWO DAYS AGO A BILL
WAS INTRODUCED INTO THE LEGISLATURE THAT
WOULD CUT FOREVER WILD'S FUNDING BY
ONE-THIRD. WE'RE VERY ALARMED BY THAT.
FOREVER WILD HAS BEEN A POPULAR PROGRAM.
WE HAVE BOUGHT HUNTING LANDS. WE ARE
OUTSTANDING -- THE STATE OF ALABAMA IS -IN THE UNITED STATES FOR ACQUIRING
ADDITIONAL PUBLIC HUNTING LANDS THAT ARE
AVAILABLE. THIS WOULD DRASTICALLY CUT OUR
ABILITY TO CONTINUE TO PURCHASE THOSE
HUNTING LANDS, AND WE HAVE OUR EYE ON
THOUSANDS OF MORE ACRES RIGHT NOW THAT
WE'RE TRYING TO PURCHASE. NOT ONLY WOULD
IT CUT OUR ACTUAL DOLLARS, BUT IT MAGNIFIES
ITSELF, AND A LOT OF OUR PURCHASES ARE MADE
WITH FEDERAL GRANTS THAT WE APPLY FOR. WE
GET MONEY FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT ON
EITHER A 50/50 OR IN SOME CASES A 3 TO 1

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MATCH. SO WE GET $3 FOR EVERY DOLLAR FOR

THE STATE TO MATCH. YOU CAN SEE HOW
DRASTICALLY THIS COULD CUT OUR PROGRAM.
OBVIOUSLY THE FOREVER WILD BOARD MEMBERS
WHO I TALKED TO YESTERDAY ARE IN OPPOSITION
TO THIS PENDING LEGISLATION, AND WE WOULD
HOPE THAT THE PUBLIC WOULD TAKE A SIMILAR
STANCE IN REGARD TO THIS. IT'S SENATE BILL
255. THAT'S ALL I HAVE TO REPORT. I'LL BE
GLAD TO TRY TO RESPOND TO ANY QUESTIONS
THAT YOU MAY HAVE.
MR. PORTER: JIM, JUST TALKING
ABOUT S-BILL 255 AND THE STATISTICS THAT
YOU GAVE US, OVER 95,000 ACRES, THOSE WOULD
BE IN WILDLIFE MANAGEMENT AREAS THAT ARE
MANAGED BY THE DEPARTMENT OF FISHING AND
WILDLIFE; IS THAT RIGHT?
MR. GRIGGS: MR. PORTER, IT
INCLUDES BOTH OF THOSE. MANY OF THOSE
ACRES ARE WITHIN ESTABLISHED WMAS, BUT
THEY'RE ACRES THAT ARE SMALL ENOUGH THAT
AREN'T WITHIN A WMA THAT ARE LOCALLY
AVAILABLE FOR PUBLIC HUNTING, SUCH AS THE

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SIMPSON TRACT UP IN TUSCALOOSA COUNTY.

IT'S 3,000 ACRES. IT'S NOT ACTUALLY IN A
WMA, BUT IT'S WIDE OPEN FOR HUNTING.
MR. PORTER: AND THIS 95 ACRES IS
ADDITIONAL PUBLIC LANDS FOR THE HUNTERS IN
THIS STATE TO HUNT -- A RESOURCE HERE IN
THIS STATE; IS THAT RIGHT.
MR. GRIGGS: ABSOLUTELY. WE SAW
THIS AS A WAY THAT WE COULD HELP CORKY.
CORKY FACES A CONTINUING PROBLEM OF PRIVATE
LANDS BEING LEFT OFF FROM WMAS WHERE THE
STATE DOESN'T ACTUALLY OWN THE LAND. THIS
IS A WAY THAT WE CAN ADD LANDS TO WMAS THAT
WILL NEVER BE WITHDRAWN FROM THOSE WMAS
BECAUSE WE OWN THE LAND.
MR. PORTER: AND WOULD YOU AGREE
WITH ME IT WOULD BE AN ISSUE THAT THE
PARTICULAR HUNTING PUBLIC SHOULD BE VOCAL
ABOUT TO THEIR REPRESENTATIVES AND
LEGISLATURE TO VOICE THEIR OPPOSITION TO
THIS BILL -MR. GRIGGS: ABSOLUTELY. WE WOULD
ASK EVERYONE TO CONTACT THEIR LEGISLATURE

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IN OPPOSITION TO SENATE BILL 255. WE THINK

IT CRITICALS THE FOREVER WILD PROGRAM AND
THE WORK THAT WE'VE DONE THROUGH FOREVER
WILD.
MR. SELF: JIM, WHO INTRODUCED
THAT?
MR. GRIGGS: IT WAS SENATOR DIAL.
SENATOR GERALD DIAL.
MR. PORTER: BILL, I'VE GOT A COPY
OF THE BILLS IF YOU WANT TO SEE IT, RIGHT
HERE.
MR. GRIGGS: THANK YOU.
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: THANK YOU,
MR. GRIGGS. WE'LL HAVE MARK EASTERWOOD
WITH THE PARKS DIVISION.
MR. EASTERWOOD: GOOD MORNING.
LIKE EVERYONE ELSE, I JUST WANT TO POINT
OUT SOME HIGHLIGHTS THAT ARE CONTAINED IN
YOUR PACKETS. BUT ONE IN PARTICULAR THAT
I'VE BEEN VERY EXCITED ABOUT FOR THE LAST
COUPLE OF YEARS. WE HAVE REALLY MADE A LOT
OF PROGRESS IN OUR NATURAL RESOURCE SECTION
AS FAR AS MANAGING OUR WILDLIFE AND FORESTS

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THAT I THINK HAS BEEN REALLY UNPRECEDENTED

AS LONG AS I'VE BEEN IN THE STATE PARKS
DEPARTMENT, WHICH IS CLOSE TO 30 YEARS. SO
I BELIEVE WE'RE MAKING A LOT OF PROGRESS.
YOU'LL SEE SOME RESULTS OF ISSUES, BUT
REALLY OUR LONG-TERM PLAN IS REALLY TO
START SHOWING THE BIG RESULTS IN, SAY TEN
YEARS FROM NOW AND EVEN LONGER. SOME OF
THE THINGS WE'RE DOING THIS PAST YEAR, WE
HAD BURNS IN SIX PARKS THAT TOTALED ABOUT
840 ACRES. WE HAD SELECT TIMBER HARVESTS
IN THREE PARKS TOTALING ABOUT 828 ACRES.
AND WHEN WE DO THESE TIMBER HARVESTS AND
THE BURNS, OF COURSE, IT OPENS UP THE
FOREST AND GENERATES NEW GROWTH, BUT WE'RE
ALSO A LOT OF PLACES WE'RE HAVING SELECT
TIMBER HARVEST, WE'RE GOING BACK IN AND
REPLANTING SOME MORE DESIRABLE SPECIES FOR
THE DIFFERENT TYPES OF WILDLIFE AND EVEN
SOME AREAS ARE ESTABLISHING THE OLD
SOUTHERN LONG LEAF PINE PLANTATION. SO IN
SOME AREAS WE HAVE ACTUALLY CLEAR CUT THE
LOG, MIXING HARD WOODS AND PINES OUT TO

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ESTABLISH THESE LONG LEAF HABITATS. ALSO

IN COOPERATION WITH THE WILDLIFE FRESHWATER
FISHERIES, WE CONDUCTED THE THREE BOAT
LAUNCHES THIS YEAR AT OAK MOUNTAIN STATE
PARK TO HELP REDUCE THE OLD POPULATION OF
THE DEER THERE. THERE WERE 54 DEER
HARVESTED ON THOSE THREE HUNTS, AND BETWEEN
LAST YEAR -- WE HAD ONE HUNT LAST YEAR THAT
WAS ALONG WITH THE SHARPSHOOTERS, AND WE
HAD FIVE SAMPLE DEER THAT WE TOOK FOR
EVALUATION. IN THE LAST TWO YEARS WE HAVE
HARVESTED 139 DEER FROM OAK MOUNTAIN TO TRY
TO REDUCE THAT DEER POPULATION THERE. AND
ALONG WITH OUR FOREST MANAGEMENT PRACTICES,
WE HOPE TO DRASTICALLY IMPROVE THE HEALTH
HERD THERE.
ALSO, OF COURSE
HURRICANE IVAN DID A LOT OF DAMAGE AT GULF
STATE PARK. IN PARTICULAR, IT REALLY
DEVASTATED AND PUT A LOT OF OUR FACILITIES
OUT OF BUSINESS. ALONG WITH THAT, WIND
BROUGHT IN A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF DEBRIS.
SO RIGHT NOW WE HAVE A PRETTY HIGH DANGER

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OF FIRE OR FIREWOOD OR FIRE FUEL

ACCUMULATION THERE, SO OUR NATURAL
RESOURCES SECTION HAS ALSO GOT ON THAT. WE
HAVE ALREADY DONE SOME BURNS IN THE
CAMPGROUND, WHICH IS CLOSED NOW, BUT THEY
HAVE ALSO LINED UP SOME GRANT MONEY TO PUT
IN FIRE LANES PRETTY MUCH ALL OVER GULF
STATE PARK WHERE WE CAN BURN THOSE AREAS
THAT MAYBE NEVER HAVE BEEN BURNED. IF THEY
WERE, IT WAS A WILD FIRE. SO WE'RE TRYING
TO GET IN A SITUATION WHERE WE CAN -- THIS
GRANT MONEY PUT IN SOME FIRE LANES
ESPECIALLY IN SOME OF THE MARSH AREAS AND
GET SOME OF THOSE BURNED. IT WILL APPROVE
THE AESTHETICS AND HABITAT OF THE PROPERTY
AS WELL AS REDUCE THAT FUEL.
THE STATE PARKS
OPERATIONS SECTION, WE -- OUR FINANCIAL
SITUATION SINCE A LOT OF OUR FACILITIES ARE
CLOSED, ESPECIALLY OUR MAJOR
REVENUE-PRODUCING FACILITIES ARE CLOSED,
WE'RE TRYING TO HANG IN THERE NOW, BUT OUR
OPERATIONS SECTION ALONG WITH OUR DISTRICT

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SUPERVISORS ARE WORKING EVERY YEAR WITH THE

INDIVIDUAL PARKS TRYING TO DEVELOP NEW WAYS
OF OPERATION TO REDUCE COSTS AND LOOK AT
NEW WAYS TO RAISE REVENUE. AND WE'VE BEEN
SUCCESSFUL IN DOING THAT THIS PAST BUDGET
PROCESS. WE DID SOME REORGANIZATION IN
SOME PARKS WHICH REDUCED PRIMARILY
PERSONNEL COSTS, WHICH IS THE HIGHEST
FACTOR, AS WELL AS A LOT OF OTHER EXPENSES.
WE'VE INCREASED RATES WHERE WE THOUGHT THE
MARKET WAS AS HIGH AS WE FELT LIKE THE
MARKET WOULD BEAR. AND ALSO EFFECTIVE
OCTOBER 2004 CHATTAHOOCHEE STATE PARK,
WHICH IS SECTION 16 SCHOOL LANDS, WE CLOSED
IT FROM -- OUT FROM UNDER THE STATE PARKS
DIVISION, AND I BELIEVE MR. GRIGGS IS ABOUT
TO ENTER INTO AN AGREEMENT WITH HOUSTON
COUNTY TO TAKE OVER THE OPERATION OF THAT
PARK. SO IT'S NOT LIKE THE DEPARTMENT WILL
BE CLOSED. IT'LL STILL BE IN OPERATION FOR
THE PEOPLE USE IT, BUT BE IN OPERATION FOR
THE COUNTY, WHICH WE THINK WILL BE A LOT
MORE EFFECTIVE THAN WE CAN. WE ALSO

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TRANSFERRED THE CLAUDE KELLEY STATE PARK,

WHICH IS A PROPERTY THAT BELONGS TO THE
ALABAMA STATE FORESTRY COMMISSION. WE'VE
TRANSFERRED OPERATION OF IT TO THE ALABAMA
FORESTRY COMMISSION. THEY INTEND TO
OPERATE IT BASICALLY PRIMARILY AS A DAY USE
PARK, WHICH PRIMARILY THAT'S WHAT IT WAS,
BUT STILL MAINTAIN SOME OF THE CAMPGROUND
OPERATIONS ALSO.
THE FINANCIAL
MANAGEMENT SECTION -- THE STATE OF
ALABAMA'S ACCOUNTING FINANCIAL MANAGEMENT
IS A VERY COMPLICATED BUREAUCRATIC
BUSINESS. IT'S DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND,
BUT ANYWAY, WE, IN OUR FINANCIAL MANAGEMENT
SECTION, HAVE BEEN TRYING TO STREAMLINE A
LOT OF THESE PROCESSES IN ORDER TO SPEED UP
AND MAKE IT MORE EFFICIENT TO -- WE RUN
ABOUT $30 MILLION WORTH OF EXPENSES THROUGH
OUR DIVISION. SOME TYPE OF PAPER HAS TO BE
FILLED OUT TO SUBMIT THAT TO BE PAID TO THE
COMPTROLLER'S OFFICE. SO WE'VE COMBINED
SOME FORMS -- TWO FORMS INTO ONE THAT THE

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FIELD PEOPLE FILL OUT. WE PROVIDED THEM

THE BETTER INFORMATION THAT THEY NEED TO
BILL THOSE OUT PROPERLY, ELECTRONICALLY,
GET THAT BACK TO US, AND WE'VE CUT OUR
REVIEW TIME DOWN IN THE MONTGOMERY OFFICE.
OUR OFFICE STAFF ARE GETTING THOSE PAID IN
A MORE TIMELY FASHION AND GETTING THE MONEY
BACK TO OUR VENDORS IN A MUCH BETTER TIME.
THEY'RE ALSO LOOKING AT A NUMBER OF WAYS
VIA E-MAIL TO GET THE FINANCIAL DATA FROM
THE FIELD BACK TO US IN A QUICKER MANNER SO
THAT WE CAN REVIEW IT AND MAKE DECISIONS ON
WHERE WE STAND EACH MONTH WHEN THEY DO
THEIR REPORTING. SO WE'RE MAKING SOME
PROGRESS IN TRYING TO STREAMLINE THAT, A
LOT OF THOSE FINANCIAL REPORTING FORMS AND
REQUIREMENTS, AND WE'RE MAKING SUBSTANTIAL
PROGRESS IN THAT.
ADVERTISING AND
MARKETING. ONE OF THE BIG ACCOMPLISHMENTS
WE MADE THIS YEAR IS WE COMPLETELY
REDESIGNED OUR MAIN SYSTEMWIDE PARK
BROCHURE. IT HAS A TOTAL DIFFERENT LOOK, A

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LOT OF MORE INFORMATION, UPDATED PICTURES,

VERY NICE-LOOKING I THINK, AND I BELIEVE WE
REALLY DID A GOOD JOB ON THAT, AND SO -THE OTHER ONE WE HAD WAS PROBABLY 20 YEARS
OLD OR SO, AND IT EVEN HAD PHOTOGRAPHS IN
THERE ABOUT THAT OLD. AND ALSO WE ARE
WORKING WITH INDIVIDUAL PARKS TO UPDATE A
LOT OF THEIR INDIVIDUAL BROCHURES TOO. AND
ALSO WILL BE WORKING WITH THE LUCKY
ADVERTISING COMPANY. WE HAD TV AND RADIO
COMMERCIALS LAST YEAR AND WE'RE GOING INTO
ANOTHER YEAR AND WE'LL BE WORKING WITH THEM
TO CONTINUE TO DEVELOP ADVERTISING AND
MARKETING RADIO AND TV SPOTS, WHICH WE
BELIEVE WILL PAY OFF. AND YOU HAVE AN
UPDATED VERSION OF WHAT ALL IS GOING ON IN
THE RENOVATIONS PROGRAM, WHICH WE HAVE A
LOT GOING ON. I WILL POINT OUT THAT
THERE'S A LOT OF PROJECTS ON THAT REPORT
THAT HAVE BEEN COMPLETED, BUT WHEN WE
TRANSFERRED IT TO THE DISK, DID NOT PICK UP
THE COMPLETED PROJECTS. BUT A LOT OF THOSE
ARE COMPLETED, AND I THINK IF YOU READ THE

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VERY BOTTOM, YOU CAN PROBABLY TELL. AND I

WANT TO GO OVER SOME THAT'S ABOUT TO HAPPEN
AND IS GOING ON NOW, SOME OF THE MAJOR
ONES. AND ESPECIALLY AT GULF STATE PARK,
WE HAVE -- WE ARE WORKING ON A CONTRACT TO
DESIGN THE NEW PIER, WHICH WAS DEMOLISHED
DURING THE HURRICANE. WE HAVE AN
ENGINEERING FIRM THEY'RE IN THE CONTRACT
PROCESS NOW TO DESIGN A NEW PIER. THEY'RE
TALKING APPROXIMATELY FIVE MONTHS OF DESIGN
TIME AND MAYBE A YEAR OR LESS -- NINE
MONTHS TO A YEAR OF CONSTRUCTION TIME, SO
WE HOPE TO GET ON THAT AND GET -- HOPE TO
GET THAT DESIGN FINISHED. THE BEACH
PAVILION, THE NEW CABINS AND THE BEACH
ACCESS POINTS, WHICH IS A FLORIDA POINT,
COTTON BAYOU ROAD MARK AND COUNTY ROAD 2
ARE ALL ABOUT TO BEGIN -- SHOULD BEGIN OVER
THE NEXT TWO WEEKS. WE HAD PRECONSTRUCTION
MEETINGS ON ALL OF THOSE, AND THEY SHOULD
BE READY TO START WITHIN THE NEXT FEW
WEEKS. IT WILL BE A BIG HELP.
THE CAMPGROUND IS

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UNDER CONSTRUCTION NOW FULLY. WE SHOULD

HAVE ABOUT 100 SITES READY, WE'RE HOPING BY
THE END OF MARCH. I WAS OVER THERE IN THE
LAST COUPLE OF WEEKS, AND THEY'VE ALREADY
STARTED PAINTING SOME OF THEM. THEY HAVE A
LOT OF THE WATER, ELECTRICITY AND SEWER
LINES IN, SO WE'RE MOVING ALONG ON THOSE
SITES. THE HOTEL, WE'RE OF COURSE TRYING
TO NEGOTIATE WITH THE INSURANCE -- GET AN
INSURANCE SETTLEMENT ON IT. WHAT WE WERE
WORKING ON BEFORE THAT WE TEMPORARILY HAVE
TO HOLD UP UNTIL WE GET THIS INSURANCE
SETTLED. WE WORKED LAST WEEK, WE'LL BE
WORKING NEXT WEEK ON GETTING ALL OF OUR
INFORMATION TOGETHER TO SUBMIT OUR CLAIM.
AND THE BEACH RECONSTRUCTION ALONG THE
COASTAL PEOPLE IS -- JIM, I THOUGHT -TERRY TOLD ME I THINK HIS UNIT IS IN THE
WATER. HE MAY BE STARTING PUMPING SOME
THIS WEEK POSSIBLY. BUT JIM SAID AT LEAST
BY NEXT WEEK WE THINK THE WHOLE -- FROM THE
ALABAMA LINE ALL THE WAY TO GULF SHORES IS
-- THE BEACH RENOURISHMENT OR THE BEACH

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RECONSTRUCTION PROJECT SHOULD BE UNDERWAY,

AND WE'RE A PART OF IT ALONG WITH ORANGE
BEACH AND GULF SHORES, WHICH IS VERY TIMELY
AFTER THE HURRICANE. I THINK WE'LL GET A
NEW DUNE SYSTEM BACK VERY SHORTLY. WE HAVE
ONE SECTION COMPLETED.
THE GUNTERSVILLE HOTEL
IS COMING ALONG VERY WELL. THEY HAD IT
MOSTLY DEMOLISHED AND THEY STARTED COMING
BACK IN WITH THE PLUMBING, ELECTRICAL NOW.
ACCORDING TO THE ORIGINAL CONTRACT, THEY'D
LIKE ABOUT ANOTHER YEAR. I THINK IT'S DUE
TO BE COMPLETED IN JANUARY OF '06. AT LAKE
POINT THE MARINA RENOVATION IS COMPLETED.
THE CABINS -- EIGHT CABINS IS -- I WAS
THERE THURSDAY. THEY'RE ABOUT 80 PERCENT
COMPLETE. LOOKING ABOUT ANOTHER COUPLE OF
MONTHS AND WE'LL HAVE THOSE. THE HOTEL
SHOULD BE READY TO BID BY -- WE SHOULD BE
ABLE TO GO OUT BID WITH IT BY THE END OF
THIS MONTH. HOPEFULLY THE ARCHITECT WILL
GET THE PLANS BACK OUT AND THE BUILDING
COMMISSION WILL BE READY TO PUT THOSE OUT

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FOR BIDS.
JOE WHEELER STATE
PARK, WE HAVE AN ENGINEERING AND
ARCHITECTURAL GROUP THAT IS DESIGNING 10 TO
15 CABINS DEPENDING ON WHAT THE COST IS AT
JOE WHEELER STATE PARK WHICH WILL BE
ADJACENT TO THE HOTEL COMPLEX ON THE LAKE,
ALL OF THEM WILL BE LAKE FRONT, TWO AND
THREE BEDROOM CABINS, WHICH WILL BE VERY
NICE. WE HAVE AN ENGINEERING FIRM THAT IS
ALREADY DEVELOPING THE INFRASTRUCTURE TO
BUILD ADDITIONAL COVERED BOAT SLIPS, RENTAL
BOAT SLIPS, LONG-TERM SLIPS AT JOE WHEELER
PARK. AND AT OAK MOUNTAIN, WE OPENED THE
GOLF COURSE JANUARY THE 14TH. THE
CLUBHOUSE IS UNDER RENOVATION NOW AND IT
SHOULD BE READY IN APPROXIMATELY A MONTH,
PROBABLY A MONTH AND A HALF, TWO MONTHS.
PLAY AT OAK MOUNTAIN THIS TIME OF YEAR,
IT'S BEEN RECEIVED VERY WELL. WE'RE
GETTING SOMEWHERE ON A GOOD DAY ABOUT 100
ROUNDS A DAY, SO IT'S PRETTY GOOD OPERATING
IN TEMPORARY FACILITIES, BUT WE BELIEVE

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ONCE WE GET THE PRO SHOP OPEN IT'S REALLY

GOING TO MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE AND BRING
THAT GOLF COURSE BACK UP TO ITS 40,000
ROUNDS OR SO THAT IT WAS, SAY, TEN YEARS
AGO. SO THAT'S ALL I HAVE NOW. IF Y'ALL
HAVE ANY QUESTIONS.
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: THANK YOU.
ANYBODY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS?
(NO RESPONSE.)
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: THANK YOU,
MARK. MR. CHAIRMAN, THAT CONCLUDES OUR
REPORTS.
MR. MOULTRIE: THANK YOU,
COMMISSIONER. IF THE BOARD CHOOSES TO PUSH
THROUGH, LET'S GO THROUGH OUR DISTRICT
REPORTS AND THEN TAKE A BREAK. SO WE CAN
PUSH ON THROUGH AND WE'LL TAKE A BREAK
IMMEDIATELY AFTER THOSE. LET'S START WITH
DISTRICT 1, WOULD BE ROSS SELF. DO YOU
HAVE ANY REPORT, ROSS?
MR. SELF: YES, I DO,
MR. CHAIRMAN. I WANT TO FIRST OF ALL
MENTION ABOUT HURRICANE IVAN AND HOW IT

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DEVASTATED DISTRICT 1. IT DID PROBABLY

MORE DAMAGE IN DISTRICT 1, HURRICANE IVAN,
THAN FROM ANY OTHER DISTRICT, PARTICULARLY
TO OUR FOREST LANDS IN MONROE, ESCAMBIA,
BALDWIN, AND WASHINGTON COUNTIES. MOBILE
COUNTY AS WELL. NOT SO BAD IN MOBILE
COUNTY BUT MONROE COUNTY ESPECIALLY GOT
DEVASTATED. THE COASTLINE, OF COURSE, WAS
IMPACTED MORE THAN ANY OTHER AREA, AND THIS
HAD A TREMENDOUS IMPACT ON THE OYSTER
CATCHERS IN MOBILE BAY THAT -- BECAUSE
ABOUT 75 TO 80 PERCENT OF THE OYSTER BEDS
WERE DESTROYED. AND I DON'T KNOW IF VERN
COVERED THIS OR NOT, BUT THEY APPLIED FOR A
FOUR-AND-A-HALF MILLION DOLLAR FEDERAL
GRANT AND IT WAS RECEIVED AND THEY
PROCEEDED WITH RESTORING -- PROCEEDED WITH
RESTORING THESE OYSTER BEDS, WHICH IS GOING
TO TAKE SEVERAL YEARS FOR THEM TO EVER GET
BACK TO THE CONDITION THEY WERE PRIOR TO
HURRICANE IVAN. CURRENTLY THE OYSTER
FISHERMEN ARE FISHING ON THE FAR WESTERN
EDGE OF THE REEFS, AND THEY ARE CATCHING

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SOME OYSTERS AND PRODUCING SOME OYSTERS

FROM THOSE BEDS, BUT IT'S STILL A VERY
DEPRESSED SITUATION.
THE SHRIMP AND SEASON
FAIR, IT FAIRED PRETTY WELL BUT THERE WAS A
LOT OF DEBRIS IN MOBILE BAY, AND THIS
PROMPTED THE SHRIMPERS TO REQUEST THAT
THESE TURTLE-EXCLUDING DEVICES BE EXCEPTED
DURING THIS TIME, THAT THEY WERE PICKING UP
SO MUCH DEBRIS THEY COULDN'T OPERATE THE
SHRIMP BEDS. SO THEY GOT A 30-DAY
EXCEPTION ON TEDS -- THAT'S WHAT THEY CALL
THE TURTLE EXCLUSION DEVICES -- AND THEN
AFTER THAT 30 DAYS THEY HAD TO ACTUALLY GO
BACK AND GET ANOTHER 30 DAYS BECAUSE THERE
WAS STILL SO MUCH DEBRIS IN THE WATER. THE
FALL NET FISHERY FOR MULLET DID VERY WELL
IN NOVEMBER, WITH DEALERS REPORTING GOOD
CATCHES AND PRICES. I'VE GOT A RESOLUTION
THAT I WANT TO INTRODUCE TO THE BOARD -AND I'LL PROBABLY DO THAT LATER ON UNDER
OTHER BUSINESS -- THAT DEALS WITH THE
SPECIAL MANAGEMENT ZONES OFF SHORE WHERE

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THE ARTIFICIAL REEFS ARE. JUST BRIEFLY,

SNAPPER SEASON IN ALABAMA FOR THE
RECREATIONAL FISHERMEN OPENS IN APRIL, AND
FOR THE COMMERCIAL FISHERMEN, IT OPENS AT
THE FIRST OF JANUARY. AND THE COMMERCIAL
FISHERMAN IS ON -- HE'S ON A TOTAL TONNAGE
-- A TONNAGE LIMIT SET BY THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT THAT THEY CAN CATCH SO MANY TONS
OF FISH FOR THE YEAR. AND THEY HAVE A
QUOTE, AND ACTUALLY IT'S 4.5 MILLION A
POUND. AND -- BUT THE RECREATIONAL
FISHERMAN, OF COURSE, DOES NOT GET A CHANCE
TO GO FISHING UNTIL -- I BELIEVE IT'S APRIL
THE 20TH -- 21ST? APRIL 21 THIS YEAR,
BEFORE WE START -- I SAY "WE" -- BEFORE THE
RECREATIONAL FISHERMEN CAN GO FISHING. AND
TRYING TO GET A -- I WANT TO SEE A LEVEL
PLAYING FIELD AND THAT'S WHAT THIS
RESOLUTION IS DEALING WITH BECAUSE THE
COMMERCIAL FISHERMAN, HE USES 40, 50, 60
HOOKS ON A LINE. AND HE HAS A -- THERE'S A
HIGH MORTALITY RATE WHEN YOU CATCH
UNDERSIZED FISH THAT THESE FISH DON'T GET

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BACK INTO THE -- THEY JUST DIE; THEY DON'T

SURVIVE. AND WE WANT TO -- I'D LIKE TO SEE
SOME KIND OF LIMIT PUT ON THE NUMBER OF
HOOKS THAT THESE COMMERCIAL FISHERMEN CAN
USE ON THESE SO-CALLED BANDIT RIGS. SO
I'LL COVER THAT IN THAT RESOLUTION WHEN WE
GET TO IT.
MR. MOULTRIE: IS THAT ALL YOU
HAD, MR. SHELF?
MR. SELF: YES. ONE MORE THING.
I HAD SOME COMPLAINTS FROM SOME LANDOWNERS
IN WASHINGTON AND MONROE COUNTY THAT DEAL
WITH DOG DEER HUNTING. AND OF COURSE, I
GUESS EVERYBODY ON THIS BOARD HAS PROBABLY
HAD SOME COMPLAINTS ABOUT THAT. AND
ACTUALLY, THERE WERE ONLY TWO COMPLAINTS,
BUT THEY CAME RIGHT AT THE END OR RIGHT
AFTER THE DEER SEASON, SO I PLAN TO
INVESTIGATE THOSE AND TRY TO TALK TO
LANDOWNERS AND SEE IF ANYTHING CAN BE DONE
TO RELIEVE THAT SITUATION. AND THAT'S ALL,
MR. CHAIRMAN. THANK YOU.
MR. MOULTRIE: THANK YOU,

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MR. SELF. ALONG WITH -- JUST OUT OF

CURIOSITY MR. SELF WAS TALKING ABOUT THE
RELEASED FISH, THE MORTALITY RATE. IS
THERE AN ESTIMATED MORTALITY RATE OF
RELEASED FISH?
MR. KELLEY: YES, SIR. IN THE
RECREATIONAL FISHERY, AN ESTIMATED 20
PERCENT RELEASED MORTALITY AND IN THE
COMMERCIAL FISHERY, IT'S 80 PERCENT. 80
PERCENT OF THE FISH RELEASED IN A
COMMERCIAL FISHERY ARE ESTIMATED TO NOT
MAKE IT. AND IF I MAY, MR. CHAIRMAN, THE
OPERATION THAT THEY USE, AS MR. SELF
POINTED OUT, THEY HAVE -- BETWEEN 30 AND 50
HOOKS ARE DROPPED. THEY CALL THEM BANDIT
RIGS, AND IT'S A LARGE EITHER HYDRAULIC OR
ELECTRICAL REEL THAT COMES UP WITH THIS.
WHEN THAT LINE COMES UP, THOSE FISH ARE
PLACED ON THE DECK. NOTHING'S DONE TO THEM
UNTIL THEY GET ANOTHER LINE READY AND
BASICALLY DROP TO THE BOTTOM. THE FIRST
FISH THAT COME OFF OF THAT LINE ARE THE
FISH THAT THEY KEEP. THEY HAVE A MINIMUM

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SIZE OF 15 INCHES. THE LAST FISH ARE THOSE

THAT THEY HAVE TO RELEASE, AND OUR REPORTS
SO THAT THERE'S, YOU KNOW, LITERALLY
HUNDREDS OF FISH THROUGHOUT THE BOATS THAT
ARE DYING OR DEAD. WHAT THIS WOULD DO, AS
MR. SELF POINTED OUT, WOULD ALLOW ONLY
THREE HOOKS PER DROP, RECREATIONAL OR
COMMERCIAL. IT WOULD NOT LIMIT COMMERCIAL
FISHING, JUST THAT EVERYBODY'S GOT TO FISH
THE SAME AND HOPEFULLY REDUCE THAT
MORTALITY.
MR. LYNCH: WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THE
30 OR HOWEVER MANY FISH THEY CATCH ARE
UNDERSIZED, TYPICALLY?
MR. KELLEY: IT'S VERY HARD TO
ESTIMATE, OKAY. IT DEPENDS ON WHERE
THEY'RE FISHING. IF THEY'RE FISHING IN OUR
ZONE, PROBABLY ANYWHERE FROM 30 PERCENT TO
50 PERCENT. THE FURTHER THEY GO OFF SHORE,
THAT PERCENTAGE GOES DOWN. AND AGAIN, IT
DEPENDS ON THE INDIVIDUAL FISHERMAN. IF
THEY'RE FISHING -- SOME FISHERMEN
COMMERCIALLY WILL GO TO AN AREA, AND IF

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THEY HAVE A VERY HIGH PERCENTAGE OF

UNDERSIZED FISH, THEY LEAVE; SOME WON'T.
SO, YOU KNOW, THERE'S NO SPECIFIC ESTIMATE
FOR THAT, BUT IT VARIES.
MR. LYNCH: 80 PERCENT OF HALF
THEIR CATCHES ARE DYING EVERY TIME THEY
PULL IN A LINE?
MR. KELLEY: WELL, 80 PERCENT OF
WHAT THEY CATCH.
MR. LYNCH: OH, OKAY.
MR. KELLEY: YES. 80 PERCENT OF
FISH THEY RELEASE WILL DIE. SO HOWEVER
MANY -- IF YOU HAD -- DO YOU UNDERSTAND?
MR. LYNCH: IF HALF OF THE FISH
ARE LEGAL AND HALF ARE ILLEGAL, 80 PERCENT
OF THE ILLEGAL ONES DIE.
MR. KELLEY: YES, SIR.
MR. LYNCH: OKAY.
MR. MOULTRIE: ARE THERE ANY
ESTIMATES Y'ALL HAVE ON HOW THE PRESS IN
OUR CHARTER INDUSTRY WILL BE DEALING WITH
LACK OF ACCOMMODATIONS FROM FISHERMEN BEING
ABLE TO COME DOWN AND UTILIZE THE GULF?

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MR. KELLEY: ACCORDING TO MAYOR

RUSSO ON THURSDAY, HE REPORTED THAT I
BELIEVE BY MAY THEY WILL BE BACK TO 80
PERCENT OF THE FACILITY. IT SHOULDN'T HAVE
AS BIG AN IMPACT AS WE WERE CONCERNED
ABOUT, BUT RIGHT NOW THEY'RE WORKING
FEVERISHLY TO GET READY FOR THE APRIL 21ST
OPENING.
MR. MOULTRIE: THANK YOU VERY
MUCH. MR. HATLEY, DO YOU HAVE A REPORT
ALSO?
MR. HATLEY: YEAH, JUST A COUPLE
OF THINGS, MR. CHAIRMAN. MOST OF THE
CONCERNS THAT I HAVE BEEN CONTACTED ABOUT
IN OUR AREA HAVE DEALT WITH THE FALL OF
DOVE SEASON AND ALSO WITH SOME OF THE AREA
OF THE PANHANDLE IN FLORIDA AND ALABAMA
WITH DEER HUNTERS. THESE THINGS ARE OF
CONCERN, WHICH I WILL DISCUSS INDIVIDUALLY
WITH CORKY AND ALLEN. AND ALSO,
MR. CHAIRMAN, WHILE I'VE GOT THE FLOOR, I
WOULD LIKE TO COMMEND THE STAFF AND ALSO
THE DEER BREEDERS ASSOCIATION FOR THE

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EFFORT THAT THEY PUT FORTH THIS YEAR. AS

YOU REMEMBER AT OUR LAST MEETING, I
REQUESTED THAT WE FIND OUT HOW MANY DEER
BREEDERS WE THOUGHT WE HAD IN THE STATE OF
ALABAMA. I ALSO THE REQUESTED THAT WE FIND
OUT HOW MANY HIGH FENCES WE HAD IN THE
STATE OF ALABAMA. AND ALLEN AND CORKY HAVE
DONE A GOOD JOB OF IDENTIFYING THOSE, AND
AT THIS TIME I THINK WE HAVE, TO THE BEST
OF OUR KNOWLEDGE, SOMEWHERE AROUND 213
COMMERCIAL OPERATIONS IN THE STATE, GIVE OR
TAKE, AND SOME OF THE THINGS I DIDN'T
REALIZE AND WANTED TO KNOW WAS THAT WE NOW
CAN IDENTIFY 92, 93 DEER BREEDING
OPERATIONS IN THE STATE AND APPROXIMATELY
50 SOME-ODD OF THOSE ARE MEMBERS OF THE
ALABAMA DEER BREEDERS ASSOCIATION. WE
STILL HAVE NOT PROGRESSED TO THE POINT OF
WHERE MY ULTIMATE GOAL WAS TO GET TO, WAS
TO TRY TO PUT -- IDENTIFY THE COMMERCIAL
OPERATIONS IN THE STATE AND ALSO IDENTIFY
POSSIBLY THE NUMBER OF PROFESSIONAL GUIDES
IN THE STATE OF ALABAMA. AND HOPEFULLY,

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DOWN THE ROAD WE CAN ACCOMPLISH THAT AND

LOOK AT UPGRADING AND PERHAPS PUTTING FEES
AND LICENSES ON THOSE INSTITUTIONS AS I HAD
ASKED FOR OR HOPED TO RELAY TODAY. BUT THE
STAFF, IN WORKING WITH THEM IN THESE LAST
-- SINCE OUR LAST MEETING, I THINK WE'VE
MADE A LOT OF PROGRESS IN THAT AREA AND
ESPECIALLY IN THE DEER BREEDING AREA. SOME
OF THE STATISTICS WE GOT INTO AND THINGS
THAT WE FOUND OUT REALLY HAS ASTOUNDED ME
AS FAR AS THE STATE OF ALABAMA -- AND
NATIONWIDE, FOR THAT MATTER.
MR. MOULTRIE: IS THAT ALL?
MR. HATLEY: DO YOU WANT ME TO SAY
ANYTHING ELSE?
MR. MOULTRIE: THANK YOU,
MR. HATLEY AND MR. SELF. OKAY. FROM
DISTRICT 2, MR. COLES.
MR. COLES: THANK YOU,
MR. CHAIRMAN. SINCE OUR LAST MEETING, I
HAVE MET WITH FIVE DEER HUNTING CLUBS; I'VE
MET WITH THREE DOVE HUNTING CLUBS; THREE
LANDOWNERS ASSOCIATIONS; MET WITH FIVE

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CONSERVATION OFFICERS; MET WITH A DISTRICT

6 SUPERVISOR CONCERNING COMPLAINTS WITHIN
THE DISTRICT; RETURNED 73 PHONE CALLS;
RECEIVED 52 LETTERS AND/OR E-MAILS
CONCERNING CONSERVATION MATTERS, AND I
WOULD LIKE TO COMMEND THE ENFORCEMENT
DIVISION AND THE ENTIRE DIVISION DURING THE
AFTERMATH OF HURRICANE IVAN. I WAS
SURPRISED -- WELL, FIRST OCCASION REALLY
SURPRISED ME IN THAT I SAW CONSERVATION
OFFICERS OUT DIRECTING TRAFFIC IN A RURAL
AREA OF THE DISTRICT THERE WHILE THERE WAS
UTILITY COMPANIES TRYING TO ESTABLISH POWER
ON FOLKS THAT WERE WITHOUT POWER FOR A LONG
DISTANCE -- A LONG PERIOD OF TIME. BUT
WHEN YOU HAVE THESE BIG BUCKET TRUCKS AND
WHAT HAVE YOU OUT THERE, THEY TAKE UP A LOT
OF SPACE BOTH ON THE RIGHT-OF-WAY AND ON
THE ROAD, AND WE HAD TO USE SOME OF THESE
CONSERVATION OFFICERS FOR TRAFFIC CONTROL.
MR. HATLEY AND MR. SELF'S DISTRICT WAS
EXTREMELY DEVASTATED BY HURRICANE IVAN, AND
LIKEWISE SOME OF MY DISTRICT WAS. AND THE

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PICTURES THAT YOU SEE ON TV WERE

HORRIFYING, VERY GRAPHIC, BUT WHEN YOU GO
AND LOOK AT IT FIRST-HAND, IT'S VERY
DEVASTATING, AND OUR HEARTS AND THOUGHTS
STILL GO OUT TO SOME OF THOSE PEOPLE DOWN
THERE. IF YOU TRAVEL IN BALDWIN COUNTY OR
ESCAMBIA COUNTY OR MONROE, SOME OF THESE
AREAS, THERE'S A LOT OF BLUE TAR STILL ON
THE ROOFS DOWN THERE. THESE PEOPLE STILL
HAVE NOT COME OUT OF THIS. MOST OF THESE
PEOPLE HAVE INSURANCE COMPANIES THAT HAVE
SETTLED WITH THEM; HOWEVER, THE
AVAILABILITY OF LABOR REPLACING THESE ROOFS
AND EVERYTHING IS NONEXISTENT. SO IF YOU
WANT TO MAKE SOME MONEY REAL QUICK, GET IN
THE ROOFING BUSINESS IN SOUTHWEST ALABAMA.
THAT WOULD BE A GOOD JOB. MR. CHAIRMAN,
THANK YOU, THAT'S ALL I HAVE.
MR. MOULTRIE: THANK YOU,
MR. COLES. OF DISTRICT 3, MR. LYNCH, DO
YOU HAVE A REPORT?
MR. LYNCH: THANK YOU,
MR. CHAIRMAN. SINCE OUR LAST MEETING, I'VE

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RECEIVED SOME OF THE NORMAL MAIL THAT I'VE

RECEIVED BEFORE AND PHONE CALLS. ONE THING
THAT SENATOR BIDDLE SAID THIS MORNING THAT
WAS CONCERNING TO ME, I WASN'T SURE WHAT HE
WAS SAYING ABOUT THE BAITING BILL, NOT TO
WORRY ABOUT IT BECAUSE THEY'RE GOING TO DO
IT ANYWAY. AND THAT IS AN AREA THAT IS OF
GREAT CONCERN TO ME PERSONALLY, AS WE TRY
TO PROTECT OUR RESOURCES OUT THERE. SO I'M
MORE CONCERNED THAN JUST NOT LETTING THAT
THING GOING AND NOT WORRYING ABOUT IT, BUT
LET THIS BOARD TAKE A KEEN INTEREST IN THAT
BILL AND THE PROGRESS OF THAT BILL IN THE
LEGISLATURE. AND OTHER THAN THAT, I DON'T
HAVE ANYTHING ELSE.
MR. MOULTRIE: THANK YOU,
MR. LYNCH. OUT OF DISTRICT 4, MR. HARBIN?
MR. HARBIN: YES, SIR. I'M STILL
HAVING TROUBLE IN THE FOUR COUNTIES THAT
WERE RECENTLY BANNED FROM RUNNING DEER WITH
DOGS. THE ENFORCEMENT AGENCY HAS WORKED
HARD UP THERE IN PUTTING IN EXTRA CONTROLS,
BUT TO MAKE A CASE IN THIS COURT'S EYES,

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IT'S HARD TO DO. AND I HAVE A LETTER FROM

THIS LOCAL WARDEN UP THERE THAT IF YOU'D
LIKE TO READ IT, IT'S THE REASON HE HAS A
TROUBLE MAKING CASES AGAINST THE DOG
HUNTERS. IN 2003 I THINK WE PASSED THIS
BAN. THERE WERE 70,000 DOG-RELATED
COMPLAINTS. AND THIS YEAR ALONE I THINK
THERE'S 69 -- 64 LEFT IN FRANKLIN COUNTY
ALONE. SO YOU SEE, IT HASN'T DECREASED ANY
AT ALL.
MR. MOULTRIE: WOULD YOU LIKE THIS
READ, MR. HARBIN?
MR. HARBIN: YES, SIR, IF YOU
WOULD.
MR. MOULTRIE: LETTER STATES THAT
ON 1/15/05, 1/16/05, AND 1/22/05, A PATROL
DETAIL WAS ASSEMBLED TO TRY AND CURTAIL ANY
ILLEGAL DOG DEER HUNTING IN THE AREAS OF
THE (INAUDIBLE) HC -- I GUESS HUNTING
CLUB -- BIG TRACK HUNTING CLUB, AND ATWOOD
HUNTING CLUB, WHICH ARE LOCATED IN FRANKLIN
COUNTY. PATROL UNITS WERE DISPATCHED AND
ASSIGNED ROVING PATROL AREAS AND

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OBSERVATION POSTS AT PAROLE UNITS. AREAS

OF OPERATION WAS ADJUSTED TO SATURATE AREAS
WHERE SUSPICIOUS HUNTING ACTIVITY WAS
OBSERVED. DURING THE COURSE OF THE DETAIL,
SEVERAL VEHICLES WERE OBSERVED IN THE
PATROL AREA THAT WERE SUSPICIOUS. THESE
VEHICLES HAD DOG BOXES AND SOME CONTAINED
DOGS THAT APPEARED TO BE CONDUCIVE FOR DOG
DEER HUNTING. UPON SPEAKING WITH SOME OF
THE SUBJECTS, THEY ALLUDED THEY WERE RABBIT
HUNTING. AT NUMEROUS TIMES THERE WERE
AUDIBLE SIGNS OF DOGS RUNNING IN THE PATROL
AREA. FOR THE MOST PART, A VISUAL WAS NOT
ATTAINABLE TO DETERMINE IF THEY WERE DEER
DOGS. IN MY OPINION, THE AMOUNT OF GROUND
COVERED, CONTINUING PRESSURE BY THE DOGS,
AND INFLUX OF HUNTERS WAS INDICATIVE TO
ILLEGAL ACTIVITY TAKING PLACE. AT ONE
POINT I HEARD DOGS RUNNING AND SEVERAL
RIFLE SHOTS IN CLOSE PROXIMITY TO MY
POSITION. I LOCATED AND SPOKE WITH HUNTERS
THAT HAD TWO VEHICLES IN THE IMMEDIATE
AREA. IN THE ABSENCE OF COMPELLING EVIDENT

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TO MAKE A GOOD PROSECUTABLE CASE IN THE

COURT'S EYES, THE SUBJECT WAS NOT CHARGED.
THE SUBJECT WAS A MEMBER OF GARRISON HALL
HUNTING CLUB, WHICH IS ADJACENT TO MIGO
HILL (PHONETIC) HUNTING CLUB. SIMILAR
INSTANCES HAVE OCCURRED IN THE PAST, AND IT
REAFFIRMS THE PROBLEMATIC SITUATION IN
ENFORCING DOG DEER HUNTING BANS. IN MY
OPINION, THE ENFORCEMENT DETAIL
ACCOMPLISHED ITS MISSION IN RESPECT TO THE
IMMEDIATE DETERRENCE OF THE CLIENT'S
RELATIONS. UNFORTUNATELY, I PERCEIVE THAT
IF IT DOESN'T HAVE A LONG-TERM EFFECT AND
IS DIMINISHED DUE TO THE VIOLATORS'
KNOWLEDGE OF ENFORCEMENT CRITERIA. IN VIEW
OF CONTINUING COMPLAINT RATES, A POSSIBLE
AVENUE OF APPROACH MAY BE TO FURTHER
DOCUMENT ALL SUSPICIOUS ACTIVITY AND
COMPLAINTS TO ESTABLISH AN INDEX THAT COULD
BE FORWARDED TO THE APPROPRIATE TIMBER
COMPANY LIAISON, TAKING INTO ACCOUNT THE
BYLAWS THAT ARE INCLUDED IN THE LEASE
CONTRACT THAT APPEARS TO BE AN AVENUE TO

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APPLY PLEASURE ON THE HUNTING CLUBS TO DO

THE RIGHT THING OR RISK LOSING THE
PROPERTY. I APPRECIATE YOUR CONCERN AND
THE MANPOWER YOU'VE PROVIDED FOR THE
ENFORCEMENT OF THE DOG DEER BAN HERE IN
FRANKLIN COUNTY, MYRON MURPHY.
MR. HARBIN: YES, SIR. THAT'S
JUST TO SAY THEY'RE TWISTING THIS DOG
HUNTING LAW AROUND ANY WAY THEY WANT TO.
THEY'LL USE ANY WAY TO RUN THE DOGS,
WHETHER IT'S RABBITS -- NEXT TIME IT'LL BE
BIRD DOGS. AND IF WE DON'T GET SOME KIND
OF CONTROL ON IT, WE'RE RIGHT BACK WHERE WE
STARTED AT TWO YEARS AGO. AND JUST AS KIND
OF A WARNING, I'D LIKE TO ASK THAT THESE
DOG HUNTERS AT LEAST TRY TO DO RIGHT. I
THINK THE DEPARTMENT HAS A PROCEDURE IF YOU
WANT TO APPLY FOR A PERMIT FOR DOGS, I
THINK HE HAS A PROCEDURE IN PLACE. IN THE
TWO YEARS SINCE THIS BAN HAS BEEN ON, THERE
HAS NOT BEEN ONE CLUB, ONE GROUP, OR ONE
INDIVIDUAL FROM THESE FOUR COUNTIES TO ASK
FOR A PERMIT TO RUN DOGS. AND WITH THAT

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SAID, ALONG WITH THE LANDOWNERS AND SOME OF

THE ELECTED OFFICIALS, THEY WANT THE BAN
LEFT IN PLACE, AND I'D ALSO AGREE WITH
THAT.
MR. MOULTRIE: IS THAT ALL,
MR. HARBIN?
MR. HARBIN: YES, SIR.
MR. MOULTRIE: THANK YOU,
MR. HARBIN. OUT OF DISTRICT 5, MR. WILLIS.
MR. WILLIS: THANK YOU,
MR. CHAIRMAN. AS FAR AS I KNOW OF, I'VE
TALKED WITH THE COUNTY COMMISSION AND THE
CHAIR FOR ALL THE HUNTING, FISHING AND
EVERYTHING WENT WELL IN BARBOUR COUNTY.
I'VE GOT A REPORT FROM CATHERINE JOHNSON
AND WE TALKED AND SHE TOLD ME THAT IN DOG
DEER SEASON IN BARBOUR COUNTY THERE WERE
THREE COMPLAINTS REGISTERED WITHIN A PERIOD
OF TWO DAYS AND THERE WAS TWO ARRESTS MADE.
OTHER THAN THAT, EVERYTHING SEEMS TO BE IN
PRETTY GOOD SHAPE. AND THEY GOT A SIGNED
STATEMENT, THE OFFICERS DID, GOT A SIGNED
STATEMENT FROM THE GUYS THAT THEY ARRESTED,

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AND THEY SAID THEY WAS -- THEY ADMITTED TO

HUNTING DEER OUT OF SEASON WITH DOGS. THEY
ARRESTED THEM, PAID THE FINE, AND AS FAR AS
I KNOW, EVERYTHING'S ALL RIGHT -- UNTIL
LAST NIGHT. I GOT THIS PHONE CALL COME IN.
AND THESE -- IN THIS AREA WHERE THESE
COMPLAINTS CAME FROM, THIS GENTLEMAN, HE'S
-- WHICH WILL SPEAK LATER, HE'S GOT SOME
COMPLAINTS AND EVIDENTLY HE DOESN'T REALIZE
THAT YOU HAVE TO CALL THE OFFICERS BEFORE
YOU GET THEM ARRESTED FOR DOING WHAT THEY
WERE DOING WRONG. SO I WANT YOU TO TAKE
THIS INTO CONSIDERATION WHEN HE SPEAKS IN
HERE WHEN WE COME BACK FROM BREAK. BUT AS
FAR AS THE DIVISION AND THE SHERIFF AND THE
OFFICIALS IN BARBOUR COUNTY, THEY'RE ALL
CERTIFIED. EVEN THE CLUB THAT DON'T HUNT
DOGS. I MET WITH THEM, AND WE MET WITH THE
PRESIDENTS OF THE CLUBS AND WHAT HAVE YOU,
AND THEY ALL SEEM TO BE HAPPY WITH WHAT'S
GOING ON. EVEN OFFICIAL MARKS COME IN, AND
HE APPRECIATED THE WAY WE HANDLED OUR DOG
IN THE WEST PART OF THE COUNTY WITH FOREVER

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WILD. OTHER THAN THAT, MR. CHAIRMAN,

THAT'S ALL I HAVE.
MR. MOULTRIE: THANK YOU VERY
MUCH, MR. WILLIS. MR. PORTER, YOU AND I
SHARE DISTRICT 6. WHY DON'T YOU REPORT ON
WHAT'S GOING ON IN BIRMINGHAM.
MR. PORTER: WELL, I'LL TRY TO
TELL YOU WHAT ALL IS GOING ON IN
BIRMINGHAM, AT LEAST RELATING TO THE AFTER
ORDERS AND THINGS, FISHING. AS OF
YESTERDAY, I STARTED GETTING A NUMBER OF
CALLS CONCERNING SENATE BILL 255 AND THE -DEALING WITH THE FOREVER WILD FUND. AS
Y'ALL PROBABLY KNOW AND MR. GRIGGS HAS
ALREADY TALKED ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF THAT
FUND, THAT TRUST FUND SERVICES THE HUNTERS
OF THIS STATE. BUT IT ALSO SERVES THE
INTEREST OF THE NON-HUNTERS AND
NON-CONSUMERS, BIRD WATCHERS THAT WAS
ALLUDED TO BY MR. EASTERWOOD, WHAT THEY
BRING TO THIS STATE IN THE WAY OF MONEY.
SO THERE'S A GREAT DEAL OF CONCERN THAT'S
BEGINNING TO COME GROUND SWELL ABOUT THE

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RATE ON THESE FUNDS, THE FOREVER WILD TRUST

FUND. IF YOU RECALL BACK IN THE EARLY '90S
THIS CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT WAS PASSED
OVER BY THE MEMBERS OF THE STATE. SO IT'S
STARTING TO GENERATE A GOOD BID OF INTEREST
IN MY DISTRICT THERE IN JEFFERSON COUNTY
FOR BOTH THE -- WHAT THEY CALL CONSUMER OR
NON-CONSUMER TYPE GROUP. SO IT IS
IMPORTANT, AND I WOULD URGE ALL OF Y'ALL
WHO ENJOY HUNTING IN THIS CASE -- AND THE
FACT THAT THIS FUND GOES TO PURCHASE
HUNTING LANDS FOR THE PUBLIC TO USE -- TO
CONTACT YOUR STATE SENATOR AND
REPRESENTATIVE. I HAD ONE LETTER
CONCERNING BAITING. I HAD A NUMBER OF
PHONE CALLS THAT CONCERN THE BAITING. THE
LETTER THAT I RECEIVED WAS URGING A CHANGE
IN THE LAW. AS YOU KNOW, THE LAW IN THE
STATE OF ALABAMA HAS BEEN FOR MANY YEARS
THAT BAITING IS ILLEGAL. AND THAT LAW,
THIS BOARD TOOK A VERY STRONG POSITION IN
FAVOR -- AS POLICY IN FAVOR OF THAT LAW AND
SUPPORTING THAT LAW. AND I THINK THAT THE

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FEW CALLS THAT I GOT IN FAVOR OF BAITING I

HAD SOME LUCK IN, AFTER WE HAD DISCUSSIONS
ABOUT IT, TO CHANGE SOME VIEWPOINTS ABOUT
THAT BY POINTING OUT THAT THE LAW WAS
PASSED MANY, MANY YEARS AGO BECAUSE THE
RESOURCES IN THIS STATE HAD BEEN DECIMATED
TO THE POINT OF EXTINCTION PRACTICALLY,
PARTICULARLY WITH DEER AND TURKEY. THAT'S
THE REASON THE LAW AGAINST BAITING WAS
PASSED. AND SINCE THAT TIME WE HAVE
PROBABLY THE BEST RESOURCE IN OUR DEER
POPULATION AND OUR TURKEY POPULATION, BEST
MANAGED AND HEALTHIEST RESOURCES IN THE
COUNTRY. SO IT HAS SERVED A VALID PURPOSE,
AND I THINK SOME OF THOSE WHO WERE
INTERESTED IN MAKING THE HUNTING EXPERIENCE
A LITTLE EASIER CHANGED THEIR VIEWPOINT ON
THAT. BUT THERE WERE ONE OR TWO, BUT THE
OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF PEOPLE I TALKED TO
SUPPORT THE LAW THAT THE STATE OF ALABAMA
HAS AND THE POLICY THAT THIS BOARD HAS
ADOPTED. THERE WERE SOME DISCUSSIONS THAT
I HAD CONCERNING THE HUNTS AT OAK MOUNTAIN

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PARK. ALL OF THEM WERE FAVORABLE, AND

MAINLY THEY WERE INTERESTED IN HAVING AN
OPPORTUNITY TO PARTICIPATE TO A GREATER
DEGREE IN EASING THAT PROBLEM THAT THEY
HAVE OUT THERE. AND THAT'S PRETTY MUCH THE
SUM AND SUBSTANCE OF WHAT HAS BEEN BROUGHT
TO MY ATTENTION.
MR. MOULTRIE: THANK YOU,
MR. PORTER. YOU KNOW IT'S THE SAME THAT I
GET, IS THE NON-CONSUMPTIVE REFERRED TO IN
-- OR OF COURSE AROUND THE BIRMINGHAM AREA.
AND I PULLED UP SOME DATA ON THE BIRD
FEEDING THAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT,
MR. PORTER, AND IT WAS THAT IT'S PRETTY
ASTOUNDING FIGURE, 85.8 MILLION AMERICANS,
IT AMOUNTS TO 55 PERCENT OF THE US
POPULATION, FEED BIRDS, AND I WOULD SAY IN
OUR AREA THAT FIGURE IS PROBABLY A LOT
HIGHER THAN THAT. IF THEY WANT TO TAKE A
VOCAL STANCE IN WILDLIFE, THEN WE NEED
THEIR SUPPORT ON OUR ISSUES. WE ALWAYS
HEAR THAT WE HAVE IT BAD. IT SEEMS LIKE IN
ALABAMA YOU HARDLY EVER HEAR ABOUT THE GOOD

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THINGS. I GOT A LETTER TWO DAYS AGO, THE

7TH, IT'S DATED -- THREE DAYS AGO -- ON A
SITUATION THAT WAS IN -- I DIDN'T KNOW IT
WAS GOING ON, BUT IT'S WORTH READING FOR
THE BENEFIT OF EVERYBODY IN HERE, AND IT
SHOWS A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WE MAY HAVE IT A
LOT BETTER THAN A LOT OF PEOPLE MAY SEE
FIT. AND IT WAS TAKEN FROM THE MCALLEN
MONITORS ON PROPERTY RIGHTS, STATE FINDS
NEW WAYS TO IMPOSE ON OWNERS. IT'S NOT
LONG AT ALL, AND I'LL READ IT VERY QUICKLY.
IT SAYS (AS READ:) "LEGAL ATTACKS ON
PRIVATE PROPERTY RIGHTS ARE GETTING MORE
WIDESPREAD AND DIVERSE. WE ARE USED TO
CORPORATIONS USING THEIR POLITICAL MUSCLE
TO ENCOURAGE CITIES TO TAKE AWAY PRIVATE
PROPERTY ON THEIR BEHALF, ENVIRONMENTALISTS
INVEST IN GOVERNMENT OUTLAW DEVELOPMENT ON
PRIVATE PROPERTY. BUT NOW SOME UNLIKELY
SUSPECTS ARE GETTING INTO THE ACTION
OUTDOORS. HUNTING REMAINS POPULAR FROM THE
MEXICAN BORDER ALL THE WAY TO THE CANADIAN
BORDER, BUT GOVERNMENT ACTION IN STATES

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NORTH OF HERE SHOULD HAVE PROPERTY OWNERS

CONCERNED. IN 2003 THE SOUTH DAKOTA
LEGISLATURE, ON BEHALF OF HUNTERS, EXPANDED
HUNTING RIGHT WITHIN THE STATE. WE
GENERALLY APPLAUD DEFENSIVE GUN USE IN
PRIME HUNTING TO BE A LEGITIMATE ACTIVITY,
BUT THIS LAW IS OUT OF BOUNDS BECAUSE IT
ALLOWS HUNTERS TO HUNT ON OTHER PEOPLE'S
PROPERTY WITHOUT GAINING PERMISSION. AS
MOUNTAIN STATE'S LEGAL FOUNDATION PRESIDENT
WILLIAM PERRY PENDLY (PHONETIC) EXPLAINED
IN A COLUMN RECENTLY THE STATE WOULD ALLOW
HUNTING ALONG ROADS OR HIGHWAYS BUT THEN
THAT STATE'S LEGISLATURE SAID HUNTERS ALONG
THOSE ROADS (INAUDIBLE) THAT LED TO
ADJACENT PRIVATE PROPERTY. OWNERS COULD NO
LONGER SAY NO TO HUNTERS. MANY PROPERTY
OWNERS FEARED GETTING SHOT ON THEIR OWN
LAND OR SIMPLY DON'T WANT THE NOISE OR
NUISANCE OR TRESPASSERS. SOME PEOPLE
CHARGE HUNTERS FOR THE RIGHT TO HUNT ON
THEIR PROPERTY, A VOLUNTARY SITUATION -- A
STATE QUORUM OVERTURNED THAT LAW. THE

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SILLINESS IN SOUTH DAKOTA SHOWS THAT

AMERICANS EVERYWHERE MUST REMAIN VIGILANT
TO PROTECT PROPERTY RIGHTS."
THIS IS HOW THINGS
POSSIBLY COULD BE, AND I THINK WE FIND WE
PROBABLY HAVE IT PRETTY WELL. I THINK
MR. PORTER SUMMED UP EVERYTHING IN OUR
DISTRICT. FROM DISTRICT 7, MR. JOHN
JOHNSON.
MR. JOHNSON: THANK YOU,
MR. CHAIRMAN. LET ME VISIT WITH A FEW
THINGS THAT'S GOING ON IN THIS PARTICULAR
AREA. ONE OF THESE I'VE TALKED AND VISITED
WITH THE PEOPLE. WE'VE HAD SOME PEOPLE
CONCERNED ABOUT HIGH FENCES. AND VISITED
WITH THEM IN TERMS OF THIS, TALKED TO THEM,
AND RELATING TO -- IT'S PRETTY MUCH UP TO
THE PROPERTY OWNERS AS TO WHAT -- THEIR
DECISION TO MAKE. ATTENDED A HUNTING
SAFETY AND RULE CHANGE MEETING IN
TUSCALOOSA. WE HAD A LARGE NUMBER OF
PEOPLE THAT ATTENDED THAT AND IT GAVE US AN
OPPORTUNITY TO VISIT AND WORK WITH NEW

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PEOPLE OUT THERE IN THE FIELD. I'VE HAD AN

OPPORTUNITY TO WORK VERY CLOSELY WITH SOME
LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS, AND YOU KNOW IT'S
ALWAYS A PLEASURE TO WORK WITH THESE
PEOPLE. THEY DO A GREAT JOB; WE'RE VERY
APPRECIATIVE OF THE JOB THEY DO OUT THERE
AND THE DANGER THAT THEY'RE UP AGAINST. I
CAN RELATE TO SOME THINGS THAT HAVE
HAPPENED ON MY PROPERTY, PARTICULARLY IN
MORGAN COUNTY AND THE WORK THAT WAS DONE
RIGHT THERE WITH THE CONSERVATION OFFICERS.
I HIGHLY COMMEND THEM. WORKED VERY CLOSELY
WITH TIMBER COMPANIES IN THE AREA. YOU
KNOW, THESE PEOPLE, THEY WORK WITH THE
CONSERVATION PEOPLE VERY CLOSELY, AND IT'S
AN OPPORTUNITY THERE FOR US TO GET OUT AND
VISIT WITH THE TIMBER COMPANY PEOPLE AND
THEIR CONCERNS, WHAT'S BEST FOR THE WHOLE
AREA. I'VE EVEN VISITED WITH SOME JUDGES
ON ENFORCING NIGHT HUNTING, HUNTING FROM
THE ROAD, SO FORTH. I JUST HAPPENED TO
HAVE ONE HERE WHERE JUDGE GOSEY (PHONETIC)
IN LAMAR COUNTY, WHICH IS ACTUALLY NOT MY

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DISTRICT BUT MR. HARBIN'S, BUT HE CAUGHT

FOUR HUNTERS NIGHT HUNTING. THEIR FINE WAS
$1,138. YOU KNOW, THIS IS REALLY WHERE OUR
PROBLEM IS. WE'VE GOT TO CONVICT THESE
PEOPLE AND LET THEM KNOW THAT THEY'RE
BREAKING THE LAW OUT HERE AND IT'S UP TO
THEM TO GO OUT AND CORRECT IT. I WORKED
WITH A NUMBER OF PEOPLE IN PREPARING -WORKING WITH THEM ON FOOD PLOTS, ESPECIALLY
FOR DEER AND TURKEYS, AND IT'S ALWAYS A
PLEASURE TO GET OUT IN THE FIELD. MADE
MYSELF AVAILABLE ON CALLS, LETTERS, BEEN A
LOT OF LETTERS AND SO FORTH FROM DIFFERENT
SECTIONS, AND ESPECIALLY THE ONES RELATING
TO THE DOG DEER HUNTING. THEY'RE SO PROUD
OF WHAT WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO DO, AND IT'S A
PLEASURE TO HEAR FROM THESE PEOPLE.
IN VISITING WITH ONE
OF OUR CONSERVATION OFFICERS AND ALSO THE
JUDGES, IT WAS POINTED OUT AFTER A PERSON
HAS BEEN CONVICTED AND THEIR LICENSE
SUSPENDED FOR THREE YEARS, THE QUESTION IS
WHAT WOULD BE THE FINE IF THEY ARE CAUGHT

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HUNTING AGAIN WITH A SUSPENDED LICENSE OUT

HERE. AND THEY HAVE EXPRESSED THAT THEY'D
LIKE TO SEE MAYBE A THOUSAND DOLLARS OR SO
FINE THAT CAN BE ASSESSED WHEN THESE PEOPLE
THAT HAVE THEIR LICENSE SUSPENDED -- IT'S A
PLEASURE TO WORK WITH THIS GROUP. THANK
YOU. CHAIRMAN.
MR. MOULTRIE: THANK YOU,
MR. JOHNSON. DR. MAY?
MR. MAY: I REALLY DON'T HAVE A
LOT OF ADD TO WHAT JOHNNY SAID; HE AND I
ARE OVER THE SAME DISTRICT. OTHER THAN THE
FACT THAT I HAVE NOT RECEIVED ONE COMPLAINT
THIS WHOLE SEASON IN MY DISTRICT. IN FACT,
IT'S BEEN SO QUIET, IT'S KIND OF SCARY. I
DID HEAR STREET TALK THAT IN SOME AREAS
THERE'S STILL TALK THAT WE DON'T HAVE ANY
DEER. GARY GAVE A REPORT LAST YEAR ON THE
MARENGO COUNTY AREA THAT CLAIMED THEY
WEREN'T SEEING ANY DEER, AND I'VE HEARD
THIS YEAR THAT SOME TALKS WERE ABOUT NOT
SEEING DEER. OF COURSE, AS YOU KNOW, WE'VE
HAD A LOT OF WARM WEATHER, SO THAT

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ENCOURAGES NOT SEEING DEER. I DID HAVE

SOME CORRESPONDENCE FROM OUT OF MY DISTRICT
ON DOG DEER HUNTING -- VERY FEW. I HAD A
LOT OF CORRESPONDENCE ON THANK YOU NOTES
FOR CORRECTING SOME OF THE PROBLEMS WE WERE
HAVING WITH DOG DEER HUNTING. OVERALL, I
THINK OUR DISTRICT HAS NEVER BEEN SO QUIET.
THAT'S ALL I HAVE.
MR. MOULTRIE: VERY GOOD. THANK
YOU, DR. MAY. WE WILL RECESS FOR 15
MINUTES. THE TIME I HAVE IS 11:05. PLEASE
BE BACK PROMPTLY AT 11:20.
(BRIEF RECESS.)
MR. MOULTRIE: THE NEXT ORDER OF
BUSINESS IS THE PUBLIC HEARING. WHEN YOUR
NAME IS CALLED, PLEASE GO TO THE MICROPHONE
AND GIVE YOUR NAME AND SUBJECT THAT YOU
WISH TO SPEAK ON. I REMIND YOU ONE MORE
TIME AGAIN TO SPEAK ONLY AT THE TIME THAT
YOU'RE CALLED. ANY INTERFERENCE WILL NOT
BE TOLERATED. UNDER MISCELLANEOUS, FIRST
TO SPEAK IS MR. JACK CROPP OF PELL CITY,
ALABAMA.

00103
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MR. CROPP: GOOD MORNING.

MR. CHAIRMAN, MEMBERS OF THE BOARD,
MR. LAWLEY. MY NAME IS JACK CROPP. I'M
FROM PELL CITY IN ST. CLAIR COUNTY. I WANT
TO TAKE THIS OPPORTUNITY TO THANK YOU AND
CONGRATULATE THE COMMISSIONER FOR STICKING
BY HIS GUNS LAST YEAR AND IMPLEMENTING
THOSE CHANGES THAT WERE RECOMMENDED BY THE
ADVISORY BOARD. I THINK MOST OF THE
HUNTERS IN THE STATE ACCEPT THOSE CHANGES
AS ENHANCEMENTS TO HUNTING IN ALABAMA. I
KNOW THERE WAS THOUSANDS OF US THAT ENJOYED
HUNTING WITH A CROSSBOW AND EXTENDED BLACK
POWDER SEASON LAST YEAR AND THERE WERE
HUNDREDS IF NOT THOUSANDS ENJOYING THE
EXPERIENCE OF HUNTING WITH A DECOY THIS
SPRING. IT'S LIKE PAT DYE SAID LAST YEAR,
MOST OF THE FOLKS THAT ARE OPPOSED TO
HUNTING WITH A DECOY ARE PEOPLE THAT HUNT
THESE SEMI-WILD TURKEYS AND IN THESE GAME
RESERVES OR PRIVATE PROPERTY AND THEY DON'T
REALLY KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE TO HUNT ON A
REAL WILD HUNT. WE SEE THEM ON TELEVISION

00104
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SITTING OUT IN THE WIDE OPEN FIVE OR SIX

GOBBLERS RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEM, GOBBLING
THEIR BRAINS OUT, HEAD BOBBING AROUND
LOOKING AND THE TURKEYS OUT THERE NOT
PAYING THEM A BIT OF ATTENTION. NOW, WHERE
I HUNT AND ON PUBLIC LAND THAT I'VE HUNTED
ON, IF YOU DONE THAT, NOT ONLY WOULD YOU
NOT EVER KILL A TURKEY, YOU PROBABLY
WOULDN'T EVER EVEN SEE ONE. MR. LAWLEY,
AGAIN, WE THANK YOU. HOWEVER -COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: I KNOW HIM
WELL ENOUGH TO KNOW WHAT THE "WHATEVER" IS.
MR. CROPP: SOME OF THE
FOOLISHNESS TAKES AWAY A LOT OF THE SHINE.
IT'S RIDICULOUS TO SAY THAT YOU CAN SHOOT A
TURKEY WITH A 10 GAUGE MAGNUM OR A BOW THAT
WILL SHOOT 350 FEET, AND YOU CAN'T SHOOT
ONE WITH A CROSSBOW. AND YOU KNOW FOLKS,
WHEN A GUN OWNER COMES IN OUT OF THE WOODS
AND UNLOADS HIS GUN AND PUTS IT IN HIS
VEHICLE TO GO WHEREVER HE'S GOING TO GO,
THAT GUN IS COCKED. AND IT'S RIDICULOUS TO
SAY THAT YOU CAN'T DO THE SAME THING WITH A

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CROSSBOW, A WEAPON THAT ANYBODY CAN EASILY

LOOK AT AND TELL WHETHER OR NOT IT'S
LOADED. AND YOU KNOW FROM THE VERY
BEGINNING WHEN YOU FIRST STARTED
CONSIDERING CROSSBOWS, THE DRAW OFF WAS A
PART OF IT, AND IT OUGHT TO BE A PART OF IT
NOW. YOU KNOW, WHEN I LOOK AROUND THIS
ROOM, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF PEOPLE IN THE
CONSERVATION DEPARTMENT, THE ONLY PEOPLE I
SEE IN HERE THAT WOULD COME TO THESE
MEETINGS WHEN I FIRST STARTED COMING ARE
MEMBERS OF THE ALABAMA DOG HUNTERS
ASSOCIATION. AND DURING THAT TIME, I'VE
SEEN THEM DEPRIVED OF THEIR HUNTING
PRIVILEGES FROM ONE END OF THIS STATE TO
THE OTHER BASED SOLELY ON EXAGGERATIONS,
HALF TRUTHS, AND SOMETIMES OUTRIGHT LIES.
BUT DURING THAT TIME, GENTLEMEN, I HAVE
NEVER HEARD NOT ONE OF THEM PUBLICLY
QUESTION THE CHARACTER OF THE COMMISSIONER,
THE CHAIRMAN, OR MEMBERS OF THE BOARD OR
THE CONSERVATION DEPARTMENT. AND I THINK
THAT SAYS SOMETHING ABOUT THEIR CHARACTER.

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AND IN THE FUTURE, WHEN SOMEBODY COMES

BEFORE THIS BOARD WITH THE SOLE PURPOSE OF
DENYING SOMEBODY ELSE OF SOME PRIVILEGE
BECAUSE SOMEBODY HAS VIOLATED SOME RIGHT OF
THEIRS, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE BOARD TAKE
THE POSITION THAT BEFORE THEY CAN EVEN BE
CONSIDERED, THEY'LL BRING FORTH EVIDENCE,
LIKE AFFIDAVITS, COURT ORDERS, TO SHOW THAT
NOT ONLY DO THEY KNOW WHO VIOLATED THEIR
RIGHTS, BUT THEY HAVE MADE AN HONEST EFFORT
TO PUNISH WHOEVER IT WAS THAT VIOLATED
THEIR RIGHTS BEFORE THEY CAN EXPECT YOU
FELLOWS TO PUNISH THE PEOPLE THAT DIDN'T
HAVE A THING TO DO WITH VIOLATING THEIR
RIGHTS. THANK YOU.
(APPLAUSE.)
MR. MOULTRIE: MR. CROPP, THANK
YOU. THANK YOU FOR THE KIND WORDS ALSO.
MS. SYBIL DESCHAINES FROM ELMORE COUNTY.
MS. DESCHAINES: I WOULD LIKE TO
DEVIATE SOMEWHAT FROM MY BROKEN RECORD THAT
Y'ALL HAVE HEARD FROM ME FOR THE LAST
SEVERAL YEARS. I DO THANK YOU FOR ELMORE

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COUNTY PRIMARILY RED LAND AND WHITE

SPRINGS, BUT I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THIS
NON-GAME CHECK OFF PROGRAM ON THE ALABAMA
INCOME TAX WHERE YOU MAY CHECK OFF ON YOUR
TAX RETURNS SO THAT FUNDS FROM WHATEVER
AMOUNT YOU CHECK OFF WILL GO TO THE
CONSERVATION DEPARTMENT WILDLIFE AND
NON-GAME WILDLIFE FUND. AND FOR EVERY
DOLLAR THAT WE CHECK OFF TO BE DONATED, WE
GET $3 BACK IN FEDERAL FUNDS, WHICH
GENERATES $4 FOR USE ON THE NON-GAME
PROGRAM. AND IS MARK SASSER (PHONETIC) OR
GARY LIVEY (PHONETIC) CLOSE BY? THAT'S FOR
YOU TO USE ON THE NON-GAME PROGRAM HOWEVER
YOU SEE FIT TO USE IT AS LONG AS IT'S OUT
OF YOUR SHOP.
I WANT TO TALK ALSO ON
THE BIRDING TRAIL, BUT I'M GOING TO LEAVE
THAT FOR THE MARCH MEETING BECAUSE I'M NOT
AS WELL PREPARED AS I WOULD LIKE TO BE.
BUT I KNOW THEY'RE WORKING DILIGENTLY ON
ONE IN NORTH ALABAMA, AND THERE'S A COASTAL
BURNING TRAIL THAT'S ALREADY OPEN AND IT'S

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BEEN A TREMENDOUS SUCCESS. AND I THINK THE

BALD EAGLE PROGRAM IS ONE THAT IS A GREAT
SUCCESS FOR THIS NON-GAME CHECK OFF. AN
EXAMPLE OF IT, THERE NOW 56 KNOWN NESTS IN
ALABAMA, WHERE IN THE '60S AND '70S, I
THINK THERE WERE NONE OR VERY, VERY FEW. I
WOULD JUST LIKE TO ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO
CHECK IT OFF YOUR INCOME TAX, EVEN IF IT'S
NOTHING MORE THAN $10. CHECK IT OFF, AND
THANK YOU.
(APPLAUSE.)
MR. MOULTRIE: THE NEXT SPEAKER
WILL BE PHILLIP WIEDMEYER FROM JEFFERSON
COUNTY.
MR. PRICE: I'M JIM PRICE WITH
QUAILS UNLIMITED, CENTRAL ALABAMA CHAPTER,
AND MR. WIEDMEYER HAS HAD TO LEAVE EARLY,
SO I'M HERE TO REPRESENT THAT.
COMMISSIONER, MR. CHAIRMAN, HOPEFULLY IN
YOUR PACKET TODAY YOU GOT THE LETTER THAT
MR. WIEDMEYER WROTE TO MR. MOULTRIE ASKING
THAT QUAIL HUNTING BE LIMITED ON FEDERAL
AND MANAGEMENT -- STATE MANAGEMENT AREAS

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WHERE WE HAVE DONE HABITAT WORK. WE HAVE

RAISED $2,000 SHY OF $1 MILLION IN THE LAST
THREE YEARS AND HAVE PUT THIS INTO HABITAT
RESTORATION WORK, PRIMARILY AT TALLADEGA
NATIONAL FOREST, SHOAL CREAK, AND ALL THE
MULBERRY DIVISIONS. AND WHAT WE'RE REALLY
CONCERNED ABOUT IS THE WORD'S GOT OUT IN
THE PRESS AND IN THE PAPER AND EVERYTHING
THAT WE'VE DONE ALL THIS HABITAT
RESTORATION AND THAT WILD BIRDS ARE REALLY
COMING BACK IN THAT AREA AND THAT PEOPLE
ARE SWARMING IN THERE. AND, YOU KNOW, THE
GENERAL CONSENSUS ON QUAIL HUNTING ON
PUBLIC LANDS IS, YOU KNOW, IF I DON'T KILL
THAT BIRD, JOHNNY'S GOING TO KILL HIM
TOMORROW. SO WE JUST THINK THAT WE'RE
MAKING EXTREME HEADWAY ON THIS, AND WE WANT
TO COMPLIMENT CORKY AND GARY AND EVERYONE
ELSE INVOLVED, COMMISSIONER LAWLEY FOR
BEING INVOLVED IN STARTING THE ALABAMA
QUAIL COUNCIL. AND WE WOULD REALLY LIKE TO
BRING BACK THE OLD SOUTHERN TRADITION OF
KILLING AND HUNTING WILD BIRDS OR HUNTING

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WILD BIRDS WITH BIRD DOGS MORE THAN KILLING

BIRDS. WE DON'T HAVE THE GOAL TO KILL
BIRDS AS MUCH AS WE WANT TO BRING THEM BACK
FROM NEAR EXTINCTION. WE DON'T HAVE ANY
SPECIFICS TO REQUEST TODAY ON THE LIMITS
WE'D LIKE TO HAVE FOR HUNTING THERE. WE
HOPE TO WORK WITH THE STATE BIOLOGISTS AND
COME UP WITH SOME SPECIFIC FORMULAS AND
WITH THE FEDERAL BIOLOGISTS ON THESE
MANAGEMENT AREAS AND COME BACK TO YOUR
MARCH MEETING WITH SOME SPECIFIC REQUESTS.
BUT I'M NOT TRYING TO BEAT OUR CHEST TOO
MUCH, BUT A MILLION BUCKS IS A LOT OF
MONEY, AND WE'VE DONE THAT THROUGH THE
NATIONAL FISH AND WILDLIFE PEOPLE AND
SOUTHERN COMPANY, ALABAMA POWER, THE STATE
OF ALABAMA HAS CONTRIBUTED, AND QUAIL
UNLIMITED IS REALLY THE ONE THAT GOT IT
STARTED, THOUGH, AND WE HAVE A CHAPTER IN
BIRMINGHAM THAT JUST STARTED A COUPLE YEARS
AGO, SO WE'RE REALLY PROUD OF RAISING THAT
MONEY. AND OF COURSE, AS WE SAID IN OUR
LETTER, THE PREVIOUS SPEAKER WOULD BE HAPPY

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TO KNOW THAT ALL THE HABITAT RESTORATION

WE'RE DOING AFFECTS SUCH SPECIES AS THE
PRAIRIE WARBLER, BACHMAN'S SPARROW,
BROWN-HEADED NUTHATCH, SUMMER -- BLAH,
BLAH, BLAH, A BUNCH OF SPECIES I DON'T EVEN
KNOW HOW TO PRONOUNCE. AND OF COURSE, THE
RED-COCKADED WOODPECKER, A FEDERAL
ENDANGERED SPECIES. SO ANY QUESTIONS OR
SUGGESTIONS?
MR. MOULTRIE: GOOD JOB. YOU'RE
PRETTY GOOD AT YOUR WORK THERE.
MR. PRICE: THANK YOU.
MR. MOULTRIE: NEXT UNDER THE
TOPIC OF DOVE SEASON -- OR DOVE ZONES. NOT
DOVE SEASONS, DOVE ZONES, BUD CARDINAL OUT
OF MONTGOMERY.
MR. CARDINAL: THAT'S ME. I
APPRECIATE YOU LETTING ME BE HERE. AND
LIKE JACK GOODALL (PHONETIC), LIKE I SAY, I
HAVE SAT WHERE YOU ALL SIT, AND I
APPRECIATE YOUR FRUSTRATIONS AND I COMMEND
YOU FOR EVEN TAKING THE JOB. AND I DON'T
HAVE BUT JUST A LITTLE SHORT REQUEST, AND

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THAT REQUEST IS THAT YOU MAKE THE

GREEN-BACKED DOVE A GAME BIRD AND LET IT
FALL UNDER THE SAME RESTRICTIONS -- VERY
SIMPLE. THANK YOU.
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: RIGHT NOW
IT'S NOT A GAME BIRD, SO THERE'S NO SEASON
ON IT. YOU CAN HUNT IT WHENEVER YOU WANT
TO HUNT IT.
MR. CARDINAL: CORRECT.
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: FOLKS FROM
NORTH ALABAMA PROBABLY ARE NOT FAMILIAR
WITH WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. MONTGOMERY
SOUTH, YOU KNOW EXACTLY WHAT HE'S TALKING
ABOUT. IF YOU WOULDN'T MIND TAKING A
SECOND AND JUST EXPAND ON THAT A LITTLE
BIT.
MR. CARDINAL: WELL, WE ALL
RECOGNIZE THE FACT THAT OUR DOVE POPULATION
-- MOURNING DOVE POPULATION IS REALLY ON
THE LOWEST END IT'S BEEN IN A LONG MANY
YEARS. WE JUST DON'T HAVE THEM. AND WHERE
WE DO HAVE THEM, THEY'RE SO CONCENTRATED,
IT'S NOT MUCH OF A SPORTING THING AT ALL,

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YOU JUST SHOOT THEM. IT'S LIKE TENNIS

RACKET WORK. AND THESE DOVES HAVE MOVED IN
HERE IN OUR PART OF THE WORLD IN THE LAST
FEW YEARS. I'VE KNOWN THEM FOR ABOUT 40
YEARS PERSONALLY BECAUSE I BOUGHT SOME, NOT
LONG AGO, AND BROUGHT THEM IN HERE. THEY
ARE EXOTIC, NO QUESTION ABOUT THAT. BUT IF
THEY WERE NOT EXOTIC, OUR BIOLOGISTS WOULD
BE HAVING SOME FAVORABLE REACTION TO THEM
BECAUSE THEY'RE A GOOD BIRD. THEY FLY
GOOD, THEY EAT GOOD, AND THEY PROPAGATE
GOOD. WE -- UNFORTUNATELY, OUR BIOLOGISTS
AND OUR DEPARTMENT PEOPLE HAVE TOLD PEOPLE
SINCE THIS IS NOT A PROTECTED BIRD, KILL
THEM ALL. WELL, I TAKE GREAT ISSUE WITH
THAT PERSONALLY. IF WE HAD DONE THIS TO
THE PHEASANT, WHEN THEY BROUGHT IT IN, THE
RED-NECKED PHEASANT WAS AN EXOTIC. AND IF
WE HAD SAID KILL THEM ALL BECAUSE THEY'RE
EXOTIC, WHERE WOULD WE BE WITHOUT OUR
PHEASANTS? AND DON'T THINK THAT YOU CAN'T
KILL EVERYTHING. THE CARRIER PIGEON IS
GONE. YOU CAN FIND IT IN A MUSEUM STUFFED;

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THAT'S THE ONLY PLACE YOU'LL FIND IT. BACK

IN THOSE DAYS THEY SAID YOU CAN'T KILL THEM
ALL. BUT I'LL TELL YOU WHAT, WE'LL KILL
THE HELL OUT OF THEM. IF YOU GIVE US A
FREE OPENING AND TELL US TO DO IT AND I
DON'T THINK YOU'LL DO IT VOLUNTARILY -WE'VE BEEN SHOOTING THEM, AND MOST OF MY
FRIENDS STICK TO THE SAME LIMITS THAT YOU
WOULD WITH DOVES. BUT I KNOW SOME THAT
DON'T. I WENT ON A SHOOT RIGHT AT THE END
OF THE SEASON AND RIGHT CLOSE TO THE HOUSE.
I WALKED DOWN BY THE BARN AND THE OWNER OF
THE PLACE THAT SAID JUST DON'T KILL THE
MOURNING DOVE. THE SEASON WAS JUST OVER
AND -- BUT THEY SAID KILL ALL OF THESE IF
YOU WANT TO. AND BUDDY, THEY DID. WHEN I
GOT READY TO LEAVE, I HAD 120 DOVES DUMPED
IN MY PICKUP TRUCK TO TAKE HOME BECAUSE
THEY JUST DIDN'T EVEN WANT TO PICK THEM.
NOW, YOU KNOW, THAT'S DISGUSTING TO ME. IF
YOU'RE GOING TO KILL THEM, YOU OUGHT TO EAT
THEM. ANYTHING ELSE YOU WANT ME TO SAY?
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: NO, SIR,

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THAT'S GOOD. I APPRECIATE IT.

MR. LYNCH: MR. CARDINAL, DO WE
KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THESE DOVES? DO THEY
COHABITATE WITH MOURNING DOVES OR ARE THEY
AGGRESSIVE AND RUN MOURNING DOVES OUT OF
THEIR NEST OR ANYTHING?
MR. MOODY: WE DON'T KNOW MUCH
EXCEPT FOR -MS. NUMMY: GARY, GO TO A
MICROPHONE, PLEASE.
MR. MOODY: THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
DOES NOT RECOGNIZE THEM AS A PROTECTED
SPECIES AND WE DON'T RECOGNIZE THEM AS A
PROTECTED SPECIES. WE DON'T KNOW OF ANY
DIRECT NEST COMPETITION, NECESSARILY, BUT
THERE IS SOME CONCERN ABOUT WHAT NEEDS
THEY'LL FILL IN THE WORLD. DR. MALARKY
(PHONETIC) IN AUBURN RIGHT NOW IS DESIGNING
A STUDY, IF WE CAN GET IT FUNDED, THAT WILL
HELP ANSWER SOME OF THESE QUESTIONS ABOUT
UTILIZATION AND DISPLACEMENT AND SO FORTH.
THERE'S A LOT OF INTEREST IN THIS BIRD, BUT
WE HAVE NO REASON TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT ITS

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POPULATION STATUS AT THIS TIME.

MR. HATLEY: WHAT IS THE
POPULATION COMPARED TO THE MOURNING DOVE?
MR. MOODY: CAN'T REALLY ANSWER
THAT QUESTION NOW. WE KNOW LOCALLY THERE
ARE LARGE NUMBERS. IN THE CITY OF
MONTGOMERY THEY'RE VERY, VERY COMMON, MORE
COMMON THAN MOURNING DOVES IN SOME
NEIGHBORHOODS. IN MY PARTICULAR
NEIGHBORHOOD, I'VE NEVER SEEN ONE. SEEN
MOURNING DOVES BUT NEVER SEEN ONE OF THEM.
BUT JUST A NEIGHBORHOOD AWAY, IT'S ALMOST
THE OPPOSITE, SO, YOU KNOW, IT JUST DEPENDS
ON WHERE YOU ARE.
MR. MOULTRIE: MR. COLES, YOU HAD
A QUESTION?
MR. COLES: I CAN GET YOU IN TOUCH
WITH SOME FOLKS IN SOUTH ALABAMA AROUND IN
THE RURAL AREAS. THEY WOULD LOVE TO HAVE
HUNDREDS COME IN AND SHOOT THEM BECAUSE
THEY ARE A NUISANCE TO THEM.
MR. MOODY: YEAH. AND THAT'S ONE
OF THE CONCERNS. IT DEPENDS ON WHERE YOU

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ARE, THE PERCEPTION THAT YOU'VE GOT OF

WHETHER THEY'RE BENEFICIAL OR NOT
BENEFICIAL. AND THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS
WE'RE NOT READY TO ASK FOR ANY PROTECTION
UNTIL WE KNOW THE WHOLE STORY.
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: I CAN TELL
YOU THAT MY WIFE'S FEEDER IN MY BACK YARD
HERE IN MONTGOMERY, THOSE DOVES RUN THE
MOURNING DOVES OFF.
MR. LYNCH: YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I
WAS CURIOUS ABOUT.
MR. MOULTRIE: OKAY. THE NEXT
SPEAKER WILL BE MR. DAN DUMONT FROM MOBILE.
MR. DUMONT: I MADE THE GRAVE
MISTAKE THIS MORNING OF -- I RODE UP HERE
WITH A GUY AND WHILE HE WAS PARKING I WAS
SUPPOSED TO SIGN HIS NAME TO THE LIST AND
SO -MR. MOULTRIE: PLEASE BRING HIM TO
THE MICROPHONE WITH YOU.
MR. DUMONT: THIS IS THERMAN BILL.
WE'RE GOING TO SPEAK ON THE SAME TOPIC OF
DOVES. I WOULD JUST LIKE TO THANK YOU FOR

00118
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THIS OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK AND TELL YOU THAT

I HEARTILY SUPPORT THE DATES THAT FRED
HARBIN READ OUT FOR THE SOUTH ZONE. I
THINK THOSE ARE EXCELLENT DATES. THEY'RE
BASICALLY THE SAME DATES WE HAD LAST YEAR,
WHICH WERE, I THOUGHT, THE BEST DATES WE
EVER HAD. OF COURSE, HURRICANE IVAN, AS WE
ALL KNOW, DISRUPTED EVERYTHING, AND SO WE
SPECULATED KILLING A LOT OF YOUNG BIRDS
STILL IN THE NEST AND SO FORTH. BUT WE'D
LIKE FOR YOU TO CARRY THAT SEASON FORWARD
FOR THE SOUTH ZONE, LET'S TRY IT AGAIN. WE
DON'T SEE ANY REASON TO BACK THE SEASON UP
INTO HOTTER WEATHER. SO WE WOULD SUPPORT
THAT RECOMMENDATION. I'VE ALSO HEARD THAT
THERE'S SOME MOVEMENT BY THE FISH AND
WILDLIFE SERVICE TO ELIMINATE THE TWO ZONES
THAT WE HAVE IN ALABAMA AND JUST GO TO ONE
ZONE, AND I WOULD LIKE TO ASK THE
DEPARTMENT TO RESIST THAT, LIKE THEY HAVE
IN THE PAST, AND KEEP OUR TWO ZONES THAT WE
HAVE, 12 VERSIONS, 70 DAYS IN THE SOUTH
ZONE LIKE WE HAVE IT NOW. I THINK THAT'S

00119
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ABOUT ALL OF, YOU KNOW -- AS WE ALL SAY

THAT THIS IS MORE OF A PEOPLE ISSUE. IN
EXTREME SOUTH ALABAMA AND IN ALL OF MOBILE
COUNTY WE BELIEVE THAT IT'S SOMEWHAT OF A
WILDLIFE ISSUE. IF YOU BACK THE SEASON UP
INTO MIDDLE OR LATE SEPTEMBER, WE FEEL THAT
STATISTICS SHOW THAT THERE ARE STILL
FLEDGLING BIRDS IN THE NEST AT THAT TIME.
WE DON'T THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA TO START
THE SEASON. IN THE YEARS PAST WHEN WE'VE
HAD IT IN SEPTEMBER, YOU'LL KILL A VERY
HIGH PERCENTAGE OF VERY IMMATURE BIRDS.
AND MOST OF OUR BIRDS ARE LOCAL BIRDS AND
SO WE'RE GOING TO GET TO SHOOT THEM ANYWAY
LOCALLY, SO WE MIGHT AS WELL WAIT ANOTHER
COUPLE OF WEEKS AND SHOOT THEM WHEN THE
WEATHER IS A LITTLE COOLER, THE DOGS CAN
WORK, AND THE BIRDS HAVE HAD A CHANCE TO
GET OUT OF THE NEST AND MATURE. THAT'S ALL
I HAVE.
MR. MOULTRIE: THANK YOU.
MR. BILL: I'VE GOT THE SAME
PROGRAM DAN'S GOT, BUT I'VE GOT A COUPLE OF

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DIFFERENT ISSUES, SO -- ONE, THE DOGS GET

SO HOT IN EARLY SEPTEMBER THAT THEY HAVE
HEAT STROKES. AND I THINK THE OTHER REASON
IS CHILDREN DON'T GET TO HUNT AS MUCH
BECAUSE THEY'RE STARTING SCHOOL AND THEY'RE
SO BUSY WITH FOOTBALL, AND I KNOW MY SON
IS. HE PLAYS FOOTBALL, AND HE CAN'T GO
HUNTING. BUT AFTER CHRISTMAS WHEN FOOTBALL
IS OVER AND, YOU KNOW, THERE'S TIMES -- AND
I'M A LOT INTERESTED IN THAT. I HAVE ABOUT
FIVE OR SIX DOVE HUNTS THAT I PREPARE EVERY
YEAR, AND WE'LL HAVE 20 OR 30 KIDS ON THE
FOOTBALL TEAM THAT LIKE TO SHOOT, AND THEY
ALWAYS DO THAT AFTER CHRISTMAS, END
JANUARY. AND I WOULD LIKE ALSO -- LOVE
THAT REG A WHILE AGO ABOUT NOT HUNTING
WITHIN 100 FEET OF A HOUSE. I DON'T THINK
YOU OUGHT TO BE ABLE TO BUILD A HOUSE
WITHIN 100 FEET OF A DOVE HUNT. THANK YOU.
MR. MOULTRIE: THE NEXT SPEAKER
WILL BE MR. CLIVE KNEE FROM MOBILE.
MR. KNEE: MY NAME IS CLIVE KNEE,
AND I WOULD LIKE TO SAY SOMETHING HERE.

00121
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MR. COMMISSIONER AND MR. CHAIRMAN, MEMBERS

OF THE ADVISORY BOARD, LADIES AND
GENTLEMEN. I JUST WANT TO SUPPORT WHAT
MR. DUMONT SAID. I'M NOT INTO FIXING
SOMETHING THAT ISN'T BROKE. THE DOVE
SEASON IN THE SOUTH ZONE WAS VERY POOR LAST
YEAR. NOT BECAUSE OF THE DITCH BUT BECAUSE
OF MAJOR CATASTROPHE. WE HAD A
CATASTROPHIC STORM. AND I THINK WE LOST A
TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF BIRDS DURING THAT
STORM, AND THAT WAS BECAUSE OF THE END OF
THE SEASON -- IT WAS JUST TOTALLY NO MORE
BIRDS. WE ALL KNOW THAT YOUNG BIRDS THAT
ARE IN THE NEST, THEY NEED 18 DAYS AS A
YOUNG BIRD TO SURVIVE. THEY'RE STILL ON
THE MILK AT THAT TIME AS I'M SURE THESE
PEOPLE WHO HAVE -- ARE MORE OF AN AUTHORITY
POSITION THAN I AM ON THIS WILL RECOGNIZE
THAT. EVEN IF ONE BIRD IS HARVESTED, THEN
THE FLEDGLINGS IN THE NEST NEED TO BE -ONE BIRD CAN KEEP THE FLEDGLING GOING IF
THEY'VE REACHED 10 DAYS OLD. SO I'M -LAST BUT NOT LEAST, THE THING THAT I GO TO

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-- ETHICS. YOU KNOW, IT SORT OF SPIKES

AGAINST MY GRILL HAVING TO -- KILLING DOVES
IN THE MIDDLE OF SEPTEMBER WHEN I KNOW VERY
WELL ANY OF THEM IN THE NEST ARE GOING TO
DIE AND IF WE HAD JUST LEFT THEM FOR FOUR
WEEKS OR WHATEVER IT IS, THESE YOUNG DOVES
COME IN HARVESTED DURING THE REMAINDER OF
THE SEASON. SO THAT'S OUR POSITION. THANK
YOU VERY MUCH.
MR. MOULTRIE: THANK YOU. NEXT
SPEAKER ON DOVE ZONES WILL BE DAVID
MCKEITHEN FROM BALDWIN COUNTY. GO AHEAD.
MR. MCKEITHEN: COMMISSIONER
LAWLEY, ESTEEMED MEMBERS OF THE BOARD. I
APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY TO TALK WITH
YOU. I'M REPRESENTING ADA ON THE 87
APPROXIMATELY OF 92 GUYS THAT DOVE HUNT
WITH ME. THEY DOVE HUNT WITH ME 11 TIMES A
YEAR. THEY PAY SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 1,000 AND
$2,800 A PIECE. NOW, I'M NOT HERE TO TRY
TO CONVINCE YOU OF ANYTHING. IT DOESN'T
MATTER WHAT SEASON YOU SET IN SOUTH ALABAMA
IN THAT ZONE, WE DO THE SAME THING. WHAT I

00123
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AM CONCERNED ABOUT IS PRESENTING A GOOD

PRODUCT TO THESE PEOPLE. I'M ALSO
CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT THE GENERAL PUBLIC
WANTS TO DO THERE. IN THE PAST THEY'VE HAD
VERY LITTLE IMPACT. VERY FEW PEOPLE SPEAK
ABOUT DOVE SEASONS IN SOUTH ALABAMA. AND
I'M TALKING ABOUT MOBILE AND BALDWIN
COUNTY, WHICH CAN BE A LITTLE DIFFERENT,
MR. COLES. SO I UNDERSTAND THERE CAN BE
PROBLEMS FOR EVERYONE. IN OUR AREA -- I'VE
SENT A PACKET TO YOU. WE HUNT ABOUT 100
TIMES A YEAR. THESE GUYS, MOST HUNTS CAN
BRING 25 -- THEY'LL BE ABOUT 25 GUYS IF
EVERYONE SHOWED UP. THEY OBVIOUSLY DON'T.
BUT WHAT THE GRAPH SHOWS, IF YOU PULL OUT
-- AND I DON'T KNOW IF YOU CAN FIND IT,
EVEN, YOU'VE GOT SO MUCH STUFF IN FRONT OF
YOU. IN THE LAST SEVEN YEARS -- I'M A
STATISTICS KEEPER. EVERY PERSON THAT COMES
TO EVERY HUNT'S LISTED; EVERY HUNT'S
LISTED; EVERY BIRD SHOT IS LISTED. SO WE
KNOW THE PARTICIPATION. AND THAT'S REALLY
WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. HOW DO YOU GET

00124
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MORE PARTICIPATION. HOW DO YOU STOP THE

DECREASE IN THE MEMBER OF LICENSE SALES AND
THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE PARTICIPATING IN
HUNTING. AS YOU'LL SEE FROM THE GRAPH THAT
I'M GIVING YOU, EVERY YEAR IN THE LAST
SEVEN YEARS WE START OFF WITH REAL GOOD
PARTICIPATION, UP THERE AROUND 20 TO 22, 23
PEOPLE ON EACH OF THESE HUNTS. IT
DECREASES DOWN THROUGH JANUARY AND
DECEMBER, IN THE FIVES AND SIXES. IN FACT,
THE GUYS -- THE OTHER THREE GUYS THAT JUST
SPOKE ARE MEMBERS OF MY CLUB. BUT WE'RE
DOWN TO FOUR OR FIVE PEOPLE, AND THAT'S
COMBINING THREE 25-MEMBER GROUPS TOGETHER
SOMETIMES. WE CAN'T GET ANYBODY TO HUNT.
THERE ARE NO OTHER HUNTS GOING ON IN
JANUARY. THAT'S THE FIRST REASON THAT I
THINK WE NEED AN EARLIER SEASON. WE NEED
TO START SOMEWHERE AROUND THE FIRST OF
OCTOBER, CARRY THROUGH THANKSGIVING AND A
FEW OTHER DAYS IN THE DAYS AROUND
CHRISTMAS. THAT'S THE TRADITIONAL DOVE
SEASON THAT'S BEEN GOING ON FOR 35 YEARS

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UNTIL THE LAST TWO YEARS. MOST PEOPLE -- I

KNOW MIKE WARD AND BILL MEDLEY HAVE A
SHOWING -- AND MIKE WARD'S GOT A LOT -YEAR BEFORE LAST I HEARD THEM TALK ABOUT
DOVE SEASONS OPENING IN THE NORTH ZONE.
NOBODY'S GOING TO COME TO DOVE SEASON IN
THE SOUTH ZONE BECAUSE IT'S STARTING SO
LATE. THAT'S AN EXAGGERATION OF COURSE,
BUT THE AVERAGE PERSON COMES LATE
SEPTEMBER, FIRST PART OF OCTOBER, NOVEMBER.
THAT'S ONE REASON. THERE'S ABOUT SIX OTHER
REASONS I WANT TO REFER TO HERE QUICKLY OR
I'M GOING TO RUN OUT OF TIME. BUT OUR
NUMBERS OF DOVES ARE REALLY PRESENT MORE IN
LATE AUGUST. IT'S STILL ABOUT THE NEST -DOVES GOING TO NEST WHEN IT'S WARM. THEY
STARTED NESTING AGAIN THIS YEAR IN
DECEMBER, WHEN IT WARMED UP. THAT'S
SOMETHING THAT OUGHT TO BE ADDRESSED.
THERE'S NO BIOLOGICAL DIFFERENCES WHEN WE
HOLD THE SEASON. MOST DOVES WE HAVE ARE
PRESENT IN LATE SEPTEMBER OR OCTOBER. AND
MOST PEOPLE -- COMPARED TO OTHER PEOPLE --

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HOW MANY TIMES HAVE YOU EVER HEARD SOMEBODY

TELL YOU THE FIRST DOVE HUNT -- I WAS IN
CHARGE OF THE CAPTAIN THREE YEARS AND STILL
AM. WE'VE HAD TONS OF DOVES MIGRATING
ACROSS THAT COAST. THEY'RE GOING ACROSS
THE GULF OF MEXICO. THE MOST -- I THINK
THE MOST COMPELLING REASON ALSO IS
TRADITIONALLY DOVE SEASON IS SET IN
OCTOBER, NOVEMBER BECAUSE THAT'S WHEN THE
CROPS CAME ON, AND THAT'S STILL THE CASE,
GENTLEMEN. I'M ONE OF THE FEW PEOPLE WHO
PLANT SUNFLOWERS AND DO IT RIGHT AT ABOUT
$450 AN ACRE. MOST PEOPLE CAN'T DO THAT.
AND I CAN KEEP THOSE SURVIVING THROUGH
MARCH. IT DOESN'T MATTER WHEN YOU SET THE
SEASON. BUT CORN IS GONE AT THE END OF
AUGUST. PEANUTS ARE BEING HARVESTED FROM
THE MIDDLE OF SEPTEMBER TO THE MIDDLE OF
OCTOBER. BY NOVEMBER THEY'RE GROWING UP
UNLESS SOMEBODY PUTS THEM BACK OUT THERE,
WHICH WE DON'T DO. 30 DAYS THEY START
COMING UP AGAIN. IT'S GOT A 45-DAY
GERMINATION PERIOD FOR. YOU PUT IT 45 DAYS

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AND IT RAINS ONE TIME, EVERY SEED ON THE

GROUND COMES BACK UP. SORGHUM, SAME
SITUATION. RAINS ONLY ONE TIME, IF IT'S
OVER 60 DEGREES, IT ALL COMES UP. WHAT
YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT WITH A LATE SEASON IS
YOU'RE CREATING IN THIS SEASON ALONE 30
DAYS DURING A PERIOD OF TIME THAT THERE ARE
NO VIABLE CROPS AND DURING THE PERIOD OF
TIME THAT YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE ABOUT 4 TO 5
PERCENT OF THE DOVE HUNTERS HUNT. NOW, YOU
KNOW, I BEG YOU, MOVE THE SEASON BACK WHERE
THE GREATEST NUMBER OF PEOPLE CAN TAKE
ADVANTAGE OF IT. MY KID, HE PLAYED
FOOTBALL, BASKETBALL, BASEBALL. AND HE
HUNTS EVERY SATURDAY. NOW, THAT'S WHEN YOU
CAN HUNT. HE STILL LIKE TO DOVE HUNT. I
THINK IT WOULD BE TO THE STATE'S ADVANTAGE
-- AND POSSIBLY ANOTHER ZONE COULD BE IN
EFFECT. LOUISIANA HAS GOT THREE. IT CAN
BE DONE IF WE NEED TO DIVIDE IT UP. OR PUT
US WITH THE NORTH ZONE. BUT YOU'RE
THROWING AWAY TODAY THE GUYS IN THE NORTH
ZONE -- YOU'RE THROWING AWAY THOSE DAYS IN

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THE SECOND SEASON. THANK YOU ALL. I

APPRECIATE IT.
MR. MOULTRIE: NEXT SPEAKER ON THE
TOPIC OF ANTLER RESTRICTION IS HOWARD BURNS
FROM BLOUNT.
MR. BURNS: MR. MOULTRIE,
COMMISSIONER LAWLER, BOARD MEMBERS. MY
NAME IS HOWARD BURNS. I'M FRONT BLOUNT
COUNTY. WHAT I WANT TO TALK ABOUT IS THE
INCREASE IN RESTRICTIONS. AS YOU KNOW, THE
MORE THAT GAME LAWS ARE RESTRICTED, WE HAVE
A TENDENCY TO DECREASE THE NUMBER OF
HUNTERS THAT WE HAVE. ALSO, IN ALABAMA, IN
OUR PARTICULAR AREA, WHEN I WAS A TEENAGER,
I WAS ALWAYS AFRAID I WAS GOING TO RUN INTO
A GAME WARDEN, AND NOW I'M AFRAID I'M NOT
GOING TO SEE ONE ON OUR PROPERTY. I'D LIKE
FOR THEM TO BE ABLE TO DEVOTE THEIR TIME TO
SEARCH FOR TRESPASSERS, POACHERS, AND NOT
BE COUNTING POINTS AND CHECK STATIONS.
I'VE HUNTED IN OTHER STATES WHERE SUCH
REQUIREMENTS ARE THERE, AND ALABAMA
WILDLIFE IS TO THE POINT THAT IT IS BECAUSE

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WE HAVE RESPONSIBLE CITIZENS IN THIS STATE.

WE WERE RAISED AND TAUGHT HOW TO PROTECT
THE RESOURCE. WE HAVE WHAT WE NEED TO
CONTROL THINGS IN A LOCAL AREA. WE LISTEN
TO OUR CONSERVATION DEPARTMENT. IF THEY
TELL US WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING, WE DO IT;
WE WORK WITH THEM. WE'RE A RESPONSIBLE
CLUB. AND MOST CLUBS ARE. IF YOU HAVE A
COMMERCIAL OPERATION AND WANT TO RESTRICT
ANTLERS, IF THEY WANT TO REQUIRE 8 POINT,
10 POINT, 4 POINT, WHATEVER, THEY'RE A
COMMERCIAL OPERATION, THEY'VE GOT THE
WHEREWITHAL TO DO IT. THE SAME WITH THE
HIGH FENCE OPERATION. I JUST ASK YOU TO
CONSIDER THAT STATEWIDE FOR THOSE OF US
THAT ARE JUST REGULAR RUN-OF-THE-MILL
HUNTERS, TO NOT RESTRICT US TO THAT. LET
US TAKE THESE BOYS AND THESE YOUNG KIDS
THAT WE HAVE IN OUR NEIGHBORHOODS, IN OUR
FAMILIES, AND LET THEM HAVE THAT
OPPORTUNITY AND DO NOT RESTRICT THE DEER
THAT CAN BE TAKEN AND ALSO JUST GIVE US AN
OPPORTUNITY TO CONTROL IT IN OUR CLUB LEVEL

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AND ON OUR OWN INDIVIDUAL LANDS. AND I

THANK YOU FOR HEARING THAT.
(APPLAUSE.)
MR. MOULTRIE: THE NEXT SPEAKER ON
THE SAME TOPIC IS MR. JOHN GRAY FROM
BARBOUR.
MR. GRAY: THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR
YOUR TIME. ON BEHALF OF THE MAJORITY OF
THE CITIZENS AND HUNTERS IN BARBOUR COUNTY,
I'M HERE TO PROPOSE A MANDATORY QUALITY
DEER MANAGEMENT PROGRAM FOR BARBOUR COUNTY.
YOU'RE ALL AWARE OF THE SUCCESS OF THE
PROGRAM AT THE BARBOUR COUNTY MANAGEMENT
AREA. THAT IS WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO REPEAT.
OUR PROGRAM IS BASICALLY IDENTICAL TO
THEIRS. WE TALK ABOUT THE REDUCED HUNTING
IN THE STATE. THE MANAGEMENT AREAS AROUND
THE STATE SAW AN 18 PERCENT DECREASE IN
HUNTING WHILE THE BARBOUR COUNTY MANAGEMENT
AREA ONLY SAW 7 PERCENT. YEARLING BUCKS
THAT WERE HARVESTED WERE DOWN. THE AMOUNT
OF TIME TO KILL A THREE-AND-A-HALF YEAR OLD
BUCK WENT FROM 550 DAYS DOWN TO JUST OVER

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130 DAYS. HUNTER SATISFACTION WAS AT 84

PERCENT, AND THAT IT WHY THE MANAGEMENT
AREA SOUGHT MORE HUNTERS. OUR PROGRAM SAYS
IT IS PROPOSED THAT BARBOUR COUNTY BE THE
FIRST COUNTY IN THE STATE TO IMPLEMENT A
COUNTYWIDE QUALITY DEER MANAGEMENT PROGRAM.
THIS WILL BE A FIVE-YEAR TRIAL PERIOD.
EXCLUDING YOUTH DATE, ALL ANTLER DEER
HARVESTED IN BARBOUR COUNTY MUST HAVE A
MINIMUM OF THREE POINTS ON ONE BEAM OF AT
LEAST ONE INCH IN LENGTH. IT'S JUST A
TRIAL PERIOD. IN ORDER FOR US TO IMPROVE,
WE HAVE TO TRY CHANGE. IF IT DOESN'T WORK,
IT'S JUST A TRIAL PERIOD. BOBBY JOE CAN
STILL SHOOT HIS FIRST DEER, ON YOUTH DAY.
HOW WE SURVEYED OUR GENERAL PUBLIC -- I
INCLUDED A PACKAGE FOR YOU ALSO. WE PUT
FLYERS IN ALL STORES AROUND THE COUNTY.
ANYTHING THAT HAD TO DO WITH HUNTING,
FISHING, FARM SUPPLIES. WE PUBLISHED A
FOUR-PAGE AD IN THE EUFAULA TRIBUNE AND
CLAYTON RECORD FOR TWO WEEKS, AND THIS AD
IN THE FLYER INFORMED EVERYONE OF HOW TO

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VOTE. AT BALLOT WAS IN THE NEWSPAPERS. WE

HAD A WEBSITE WITH THE BARBOUR COUNTY
CHAMBER OF COMMERCE. 94 PERCENT OF ALL
PEOPLE THAT RESPONDED ARE IN FAVOR OF THIS
PROGRAM. BECAUSE OF THOSE RESULTS, WE HAVE
A RESOLUTION FROM THE BARBOUR COUNTY
CHAMBER OF COMMERCE, THE BARBOUR COUNTY
COMMISSION AND EUFAULA CITY COUNCIL. IN
ADDITION TO THAT, THE MAYOR OF CLAYTON, THE
MAYOR OF CLIO, THE MAYOR OF LEWISVILLE HAS
ALL SIGNED THE RESOLUTION. IN ADDITION TO
THAT, REPRESENTATIVE BILLY BEASLEY AND
REPRESENTATIVE MYRON PENN SIGNED ON WITH
US. INCLUDED IN YOUR PACKAGE IS THE
RESOLUTION AND THE LETTERS. RESOLUTION
SAYS (AS READ:) "CITY COUNCIL OF EUFAULA,
ALABAMA, BARBOUR COUNTY COMMISSION, AND THE
BOARD OF DIRECTORS OF THE EUFAULA COUNTY
CHAMBER OF COMMERCE HEREBY ADOPT THE
FOLLOWING JOINT RESOLUTION: WHEREAS
BARBOUR COUNTY, ALABAMA HAS A LARGE
POPULATION OF WHITETAIL DEER AND WHEREAS
DEER HUNTING IS A POPULAR SPORT IN BARBOUR

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COUNTY, ALABAMA, ATTRACTING HUNTERS FROM

OUTSIDE THE BARBOUR COUNTY AREA, AND
WHEREAS THE BARBOUR COUNTY MANAGEMENT -EXCUSE ME, THE BARBOUR COUNTY WILDLIFE
MANAGEMENT AREA, A LARGE TRACT OF PUBLIC
HUNTING LAND ATTRACTS HUNTERS FROM MANY
AREAS OUTSIDE OF BARBOUR COUNTY AND SINCE
1999 HAS MAINTAINED A QUALITY DEER
MANAGEMENT PROGRAM ON THIS PROPERTY WHEREBY
HUNTERS ARE PROHIBITED FROM HARVESTING
BUCKS UNLESS THERE IS A MINIMUM OF THREE
ONE-INCH POINTS ON ONE MAIN BEAM OF THE
BUCK'S RACK. WHEREAS THE QUALITY
MANAGEMENT PROGRAM ADOPTED AND MAINTAINED
BY THE BARBOUR COUNTY WILDLIFE MANAGEMENT
AREA HAS RESULTED IN A SUBSTANTIAL INCREASE
IN THE NUMBER OF BUCKS WITH QUALITY ANTLERS
AND WHEREAS UPON THE ADOPTION OF SIMILAR
QUALITY DEER MANAGEMENT PROGRAM ON A
COUNTYWIDE BASIS, HUNTERS WOULD ULTIMATELY
BENEFIT FROM IMPROVED TROPHY HUNTING, AND
THE COUNTY WOULD ENJOY POSITIVE ECONOMIC
IMPACT BECAUSE OF THE IMPROVEMENT OF THE

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TROPHY DEER HUNTING IN THE COUNTY, AND

WHEREAS THE SURVEY CONDUCTED IN BARBOUR
COUNTY HAS EVIDENCED OVERWHELMING SUPPORT
ON THE PRIVATE CITIZENS OF BARBOUR COUNTY
AND OTHER MEMBERS OF THE GENERAL PUBLIC FOR
SUCH AN ANTLER RESTRICTION. NOW,
THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED THAT THE CITY
COUNCIL OF EUFAULA, ALABAMA, THE BARBOUR
COUNTY, ALABAMA COMMISSION, THE BOARD OF
DIRECTORS OF THE EUFAULA, BARBOUR COUNTY
CHAMBER OF COMMERCE SUPPORT THE
ESTABLISHMENT OF THE QUALITY DEER PROGRAM
FOR BARBOUR COUNTY IDENTICAL TO OR
SUBSTANTIALLY SIMILAR TO THE PROGRAM IN
EFFECT ON THE BARBOUR COUNTY WILDLIFE
MANAGEMENT AREA AND HEREBY URGE THE ALABAMA
DEPARTMENT OF CONSERVATION AND NATURAL
RESOURCES TO ADOPT ALL RULES AND
REGULATIONS NECESSARY FOR IMPLEMENTATION OF
SUCH A PROGRAM APPLICABLE TO ALL LANDS IN
BARBOUR COUNTY, ALABAMA."
BIOLOGICALLY, THIS
PROGRAM ALSO INCREASED THE DOE HARVEST ON

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THE MANAGEMENT AREA, SOMETHING ELSE WE WERE

TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH. BUT WE APPRECIATE
YOUR SUPPORT.
MR. COLES: I HAVE A QUESTION.
MR. GRAY, YOU MENTIONED YOU HAD 94 PERCENT
APPROVAL RATING THAT RESPONDED; IS THAT
CORRECT?
MR. GRAY: THAT IS CORRECT.
MR. COLES: HOW MANY RESPONDED?
MR. GRAY: I HAVE 288. AND OF THE
6 PERCENT THAT ARE AGAINST IT, MORE THAN
HALF ARE FROM FLORIDA.
MR. PORTER: I'VE GOT SOME
QUESTIONS. JUST CURIOUS, YOU SAID THE
NUMBER OF RESPONDENTS WAS HOW MANY?
MR. GRAY: 288.
MR. PORTER: AND DO YOU KNOW WHERE
THE -- THOSE WHO RESPONDED, DO YOU KNOW
WHERE THEY'RE FROM? ARE THEY IN OR OUT OF
COUNTY.
MR. GRAY: THEY ARE BOTH. WE
SURVEYED RESIDENTS AND ALL PEOPLE HUNTING
IN THE COUNTY.

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MR. PORTER: NOW, DO YOU KNOW THE

AREA, THE SIZE OF AREA OF THE BARBOUR
COUNTY MANAGEMENT AREA THAT THEY'RE HUNTING
ON, WHERE THIS IS LOCATED?
MR. GRAY: DO I KNOW THE NUMBER OF
ACRES?
MR. PORTER: NUMBER OF ACRES.
MR. GRAY: NO, SIR.
MR. COLES: 11,000.
MR. PORTER: HOW MUCH?
MR. COLES: 11,000. DO YOU KNOW
THE NUMBER OF ACRES THAT ARE IN THE COUNTY
AS A WHOLE?
MR. MOULTRIE: HOLD ON JUST A
MINUTE. MR. MOODY, WHAT IS IT?
MR. MOODY: 20,000.
MR. COLES: WELL, WOULD YOU AGREE
WITH ME THERE'S ABOUT 578,000 ACRES IN THE
COUNTY AS A WHOLE?
MR. GRAY: SURE.
MR. COLES: OKAY. AND DO YOU KNOW
HOW MANY LANDOWNERS THERE ARE IN THE COUNTY
THAT OWN, SAY, 40 OR 50 ACRES?

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MR. GRAY: I DO NOT.

MR. PORTER: WOULD YOU AGREE IT
WOULD BE POSSIBLY THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE?
MR. GRAY: OKAY.
MR. COLES: AND WOULD YOU AGREE
WITH ME THAT OF THE 288, SOME OF WHICH ARE
IN THE COUNTY, SOME ARE OUT OF THE COUNTY,
THAT IT'S A VERY LOW PERCENTAGE OF THE
PROPERTY OWNERS AS A WHOLE IN THE COUNTY
THAT RESPONDED?
MR. GRAY: IT IS A LOW PERCENTAGE,
BUT FROM EVERYONE WE'VE TALKED TO THAT HAVE
DONE PREVIOUS SURVEYS IN THE AREA, IT IS A
GREAT TURNOUT.
MR. COLES: DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY
FOLKS HUNTED AT THE BARBOUR COUNTY
MANAGEMENT AREA LAST SEASON?
MR. GRAY: YES, SIR.
MR. COLES: HOW MANY IS THAT?
MR. GRAY: WELL, NO, I DO NOT. I
KNOW THE NUMBER OF MANDATES FOR THE LAST
FIVE YEARS.
MR. MOULTRIE: MR. MOODY, DO YOU

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KNOW THAT?
MR. MOODY: I DON'T KNOW THE EXACT
NUMBER, BUT SEVERAL HUNDRED A YEAR.
MR. MOULTRIE: SEVERAL HUNDRED?
OKAY.
MR. COLES: SEVERAL HUNDRED
HUNTERS OR SEVERAL THOUSAND MANDATES, IS
THAT WHAT YOU SAID?
MR. MOODY: RIGHT.
MR. COLES: AND LET'S SEE. WE'VE
GOT SOMETHING LIKE 16,000 REGISTERED VOTERS
IN THE COUNTY AS A WHOLE?
MR. GRAY: THAT'S CORRECT, OUT OF
26,000 RESIDENTS.
MR. COLES: I WAS JUST INTERESTED
IN SOME OF THOSE FIGURES. DO YOU HAVE IN
YOUR PACKET, DO YOU HAVE IT BROKEN DOWN AS
TO IN STATE AND OUT OF STATE?
MR. GRAY: NO, SIR, WE DO NOT. I
CAN GET THAT FOR YOU, JIM.
MR. COLES: OKAY. I'D LIKE TO SEE
THAT.
MR. WILLIS: MAYBE I DIDN'T CATCH

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THIS, BUT LIKE ON THE MANAGEMENT AREA YOU

CHECK THE AREA -- ARE THEY GOING TO HAVE TO
-- IF THEY KILL A DEER -- IN OTHER WORDS,
IF YOU KILL ONE THAT DOESN'T HAVE A THREE
POINT RACK, HE BROKE THE LAW. IT'S UP TO
OUR WARDEN TO CATCH HIM; RIGHT?
MR. GRAY: THAT'S CORRECT. JUST
LIKE ANY OTHER HUNTING REGULATION.
MR. WILLIS: WELL, HOW MANY CLUBS
WOULD YOU SAY THAT ALREADY HAVE THIS RULE
OTHER THAN THE MANAGEMENT?
MR. GRAY: THERE ARE A LOT. THERE
ARE A LOT.
MR. WILLIS: WHAT PERCENTAGE OF
THE PEOPLE IS IT GOING TO AFFECT, THEN,
THAT DON'T WANT THIS? HOW MANY WOULD YOU
THINK?
MR. GRAY: OBVIOUSLY 6 PERCENT, IF
THAT'S A RELATIVE SAMPLE OF THE COUNTY.
MR. MOULTRIE: MR. SELF, DO YOU
HAVE A QUESTION?
MR. SELF: YES, THANK YOU, MR.
CHAIRMAN. ARE YOU AWARE THAT MISSISSIPPI

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HAS A LAW SIMILAR TO THIS?

MR. GRAY: I AM AWARE.
MR. SELF: ARE YOU AWARE THAT IT
HAS NOW BEEN DETERMINED THAT THIS HAS
RESULTED IN HIGHER GRADING OF THE HERD IN
MISSISSIPPI?
MR. GRAY: WELL, WE WERE BASING
OUR INFORMATION ON THE BARBOUR COUNTY
MANAGEMENT AREA, WHAT'S BEEN PUBLISHED BY
THE BIOLOGISTS.
MR. SELF: IT'S PRETTY WELL KNOWN
AND WIDESPREAD KNOWN THAT MISSISSIPPI NOW
REALIZES THEY MADE A MISTAKE IN DOING THIS.
MR. GRAY: I UNDERSTAND. THE WAY
WE'RE APPROACHING THIS IS IT'S HARD FOR US
TO CONTINUE TO EVOLVE AND IMPROVE WITHOUT
CHANGE. AND WE WANT TO TRY SOMETHING NEW
FOR OUR COUNTY.
MR. SELF: ALSO ARE YOU AWARE THAT
THE ORIGINATORS OF THE QUALITY WHITETAIL
MANAGEMENT PROGRAM IN THE BOOK ON THAT SAME
SUBJECT SAYS THAT THIS SHOULD BE DONE ON A
VOLUNTEER BASIS?

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MR. MOULTRIE: WHO IS THAT,

MR. SELF, THAT SAYS THAT? I WASN'T CLEAR
ON THAT.
MR. SELF: THERE IS A BOOK
PUBLISHED BY THE ASSOCIATION THAT IN THAT
BOOK IT SAYS THAT THE ANTLER RESTRICTIONS
AND IMPLEMENTATION LEVEL OF THE QDM PROGRAM
SHOULD BE DONE ON A VOLUNTARY BASIS.
MR. SELF: YOU'D BE AMAZED, IT
SAYS THAT IN THEIR BOOKS.
MR. MOULTRIE: DO YOU HAVE THE
BOOK WITH YOU?
MR. SELF: NOT WITH ME, BUT QDEMA
HAS A BOOK.
MR. MOULTRIE: OKAY. MR. HARTZOG?
MR. HARTZOG: JOHN, THERE WERE
SOME QUESTIONS AND ALL. BASICALLY, I'M
FROM THE BARBOUR COUNTY CHAMBER OF
COMMERCE. WE WERE THE ONES THAT TOOK THE
TALLY, TOOK THE VOTE. SOME COMMENTS HAVE
BEEN MADE ON THE MISSISSIPPI STUDY. THE
MISSISSIPPI STUDY, THEIR QUALIFICATIONS AND
THEIR REQUIREMENTS ARE DIFFERENT THAN

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WHAT'S BEEN PROPOSED HERE. THERE'S OTHER

DATA FROM TEXAS AND OTHER SOURCES THAT WILL
CONTRADICT SOME OF THAT STUDY. AS TO THE
16,000 VOTERS, IF YOU TAKE THE 7 PERCENT
WHO ARE ACTUAL HUNTERS IN THE STATE, I
MEAN, WE GOT A PRETTY GOOD SAMPLE. WE CAN
ANSWER QUESTIONS FROM A BIOLOGICAL
STANDPOINT. TALKING ABOUT FROM A VOLUNTARY
STANDPOINT, IT'S HARD FOR -- AND MOST OF
THE CLUBS, IN FACT, WHEN WE PRESENTED THIS
BEFORE THE CHAMBER OF COMMERCE AND THE
CITY, SAMMY WEBSKIN, WHO MANAGES ALL LAND
FOR BARBOUR COUNTY, SAID MOST DEER CLUBS
ARE GOING TO IT, MOST OF THE PRIVATE CLUBS
HAVE GONE TO IT. BUT IT'S HARD TO TRY TO
IMPROVE SOMETHING WHEN YOU CAN CROSS THE
LINE AND SOMEBODY SHOOTS A SPIKE OR
WHATEVER. I KNOW THAT GARY CALLED ME THE
OTHER DAY AND MADE THE COMMENT AND SAID,
WELL, YOU'RE GOING TO CREATE AT VIOLATOR
OUT OF EVERYBODY WHO GOES HUNTING BECAUSE
HE PULLS A TRIGGER AND HE MADE A MISTAKE.
WELL, EVERYBODY MAKES MISTAKES, AND IF YOU

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LEARN HUNTING AND NOT KILLING, YOU LEARN

HOW TO IDENTIFY WHAT YOU'RE PULLING THE
TRIGGER ON, YOU LEARN HOW TO IDENTIFY THAT
DEER BEFORE YOU PULL THE TRIGGER.
MR. MOULTRIE: JIM? JIM AND I
HAVE HAD THIS CONVERSATION ALREADY, SO...
MR. PORTER: IS THERE SOME
SIGNIFICANCE THAT YOU GAVE US EACH A
LARGE-MOUTH BASS AS A LITTLE TOKEN HERE?
DOES THAT HAVE SOMETHING TO DO WITH THIS?
MR. HARTZOG: TWO THINGS ON THAT.
THAT IS YOUR TENSION RELIEVER. YOU CAN
STAND THERE AND SQUEEZE IT WHEN YOU GET
TENSE AND UPSET. CHAMBER OF COMMERCE PUT
THOSE OUT. IF YOU REMEMBER, TWO OR THREE
YEARS AGO THIS PARTICULAR BOARD HELPED BASS
A REGULATION ON SIZE ON BASS THAT GREATLY
IMPROVED THINGS OUT THERE ON LAKE EUFAULA,
SO WHEN YOU GET TENSE AND UPSET, JIM, JUST
SQUEEZE IT.
MR. COLES: GRADY, I'VE ALREADY
WORN MINE OUT. CAN I GET ANOTHER ONE?
MR. HARTZOG: ROBIN HAS A WHOLE

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BOX OF THEM THAT I BROUGHT TO THE

DEPARTMENT. BY THE WAY, SEVERAL GROUPS -IN FACT, WE HAD ANOTHER PERSON THAT WAS
GOING TO SPEAK THIS MORNING; HE HAD A
CONFLICT THERE IN BARBOUR COUNTY. THE
FARMERS FEDERATION HAS ENDORSED THIS PLAN.
THE WILDLIFE FEDERATION HAS ENDORSED THIS
PLAN ON A TRIAL BASIS. LIKE I SAID, YOU
CAN'T GO ANYWHERE UNLESS YOU TRY CHANGE.
THE MISSISSIPPI STUDY, THE SIZE
RESTRICTIONS AND ALL ARE MORE RESTRICTIVE
THAN THIS. I MEAN, UNLESS WE TRY SOMETHING
AND TRY TO MAKE A CHANGE -- YOU KNOW,
THERE'S ALL THE VOTES; YOU CAN LOOK AT
EVERY ONE OF THEM. JIM ACCUSED ME OF BEING
AN ACCOUNTANT. I COUNTED THEM THE WAY I
WANTED TO COUNT THEM, BUT THEY'RE ALL,
THEY'RE ALL SIGNED, SO...
MR. PORTER: THEY ALL HAVE THE
SAME SIGNATURE.
MR. HARTZOG: THE FLORIDA ONES,
THE VOTES HAVE BEEN COUNTED. ANY OTHER
QUESTIONS FROM THE COMMITTEE? YOU KNOW,

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LIKE I SAID, ALL WE'RE ASKING FOR IS A

TRIAL BASIS. IT MAY NOT WORK. IF IT
DOESN'T WORK, THIS BOARD HAS THE POWER TO
CHANGE IT. BUT UNLESS YOU TRY TO DO
SOMETHING DIFFERENT THAN THE WAY IT WAS
DONE YEARS AGO, WE'LL NEVER GO ANYWHERE.
MR. WILLIS: WHY WOULD YOU HAVE TO
HAVE IT FOR FIVE YEARS.
MR. HARTZOG: WHAT WE'RE ASKING
FOR IS A TRIAL PERIOD OF FIVE YEARS. IN
THE BARBOUR COUNTY STUDY THAT BILL GRAVES
-- IS BILL HERE TODAY? OKAY. BILL GRAVES
DID THE STUDY AND YOU'VE GOT A COPY OF THE
ARTICLE HE WROTE THAT WAS A REAL POSITIVE
ARTICLE ON THE RESULTS OF THAT. BASICALLY,
IT TOOK A TIME IN WHICH TO -- THE
BIOLOGICAL -- I MEAN, JUST GETTING ONE YEAR
AND THAT ONE-YEAR OLD BUCK NOW GETS SHOT
THE NEXT YEAR, YOU HAVEN'T ACCOMPLISHED
ANYTHING. SO BASICALLY, THE DEPARTMENT
ITSELF ELECTED A FIVE-YEAR STUDY IN WHICH
TO IMPLEMENT ON THE BARBOUR COUNTY
MANAGEMENT AREA. JUST TO FIND OUT ON THE

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BARBOUR COUNTY MANAGEMENT AREA AS A RESULT

OF DEMAND WHEN FOREVER WILD -- UP IN
NORTHWEST ALABAMA, COLBERT COUNTY WENT TO A
MEETING AND THEY HAD, WHAT, 600 FOLKS IN
FAVOR OF IT? BUT I MEAN, YOU KNOW -MR. PORTER: GRADY, JUST ONE MORE
OBSERVATION. IF YOU FEEL SO CONFIDENT
YOU'VE GOT SO MANY PEOPLE INTERESTED IN IT,
THEY CAN VOLUNTARILY DO THAT. IS IT WISE
TO TAKE AWAY THE OPTIONS THAT THE LAND
OWNER HAS TO MANAGE HIS OWN RESOURCE?
MR. HARTZOG: JIM, I DEBATED THAT
MYSELF, AND YOU AND I HAVE HAD THAT DEBATE
ON NUMEROUS TIMES, WHEN YOU PUT
RESTRICTION, AND THE GENTLEMAN THAT SPOKE
BEFORE US SPOKE ABOUT PUTTING RESTRICTIONS.
BUT IF YOU'RE GOING TO MANAGE SOMETHING,
YOU HAVE TO MANAGE IT AS WHOLE. YOU CAN'T
PIECE MANAGE IT. IF YOU HAVE AN ACRE OF
MANAGEMENT ON AND AN ACRE OF MANAGEMENT
AREA OFF, THE STUDY WOULDN'T RESULT IN A
POSITIVE RESULT. BECAUSE AS SOON AS HE
WALKS ACROSS THE LINE -- AND LIKE I SAID,

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MOST OF THE NO VOTES CAME FROM FLORIDA -AND I'LL GET YOU A TALLY OF THOSE. BUT,
YOU KNOW, THEY WANT TO SHOOT WHATEVER THEY
WANT, AND I KNOW IT'S A RESTRICTION; I
UNDERSTAND YOUR POINT, BUT, YOU KNOW, I
THINK BARBOUR COUNTY HAS ASKED FOR IT,
WE'VE GOT OVERWHELMING SUPPORT, THE COUNTY
COMMISSION AND THE SENATORS AND EVERYBODY
ELSE WOULD LIKE THE DEPARTMENT TO TRY IT.
MR. WILLIS: ONE MORE QUESTION.
MR. HARTZOG: YES, SIR?
MR. WILLIS: HOW MANY DAYS DID YOU
HAVE FOR YOUTH TO BE ABLE TOO ABLE TO KILL
WHATEVER AT HOME?
MR. HARTZOG: THE DEPARTMENT SET
THE YOUTH DAY AS THE WEEKEND BEFORE THE
SEASON, THE SATURDAY BEFORE.
MR. WILLIS: IN OTHER WORDS,
THAT'S JUST FOR ONE DAY THAT -- IF HE DON'T
GET TO GO, HE CAN'T KILL DEER THAT YEAR?
MR. HARTZOG: YES. NOW, HE CAN
KILL A DOE OR A BUCK LIKE ANYBODY ELSE.
MR. WILLIS: BUT IT'S GOT TO HAVE

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THREE POINTS.
MR. HARTZOG: RIGHT. RIGHT. AND
THE KICKER IS -- I MEAN, I HAD THIS
DISCUSSION WITH GARY -- IS YOU'VE GOT TO
TRAIN THAT KID -- I MEAN, IT'S NOT ABOUT
GOING TO CLIMB A TREE AND PULLING A
TRIGGER. IT'S ABOUT IDENTIFYING AND
LEARNING. ALL OF YOU KNOW, MY LOVE IS
WATER FOUL. AND I'VE GOT TO LEARN TO
IDENTIFY A CANVAS BACK (PHONETIC) FROM A
FIN TAIL AND EVERYTHING ELSE BECAUSE THE
LIMIT RESTRICTIONS AND ALL ARE ALL
DIFFERENT. I MEAN, YOU KNOW, WE NEED TO BE
TEACHING THESE KIDS HOW TO HUNT, NOT JUST
PULL THE TRIGGER.
MR. MOULTRIE: MR. GRAY,
MR. HARTZOG, THANK YOU ALL FOR Y'ALL'S
DILIGENT EFFORT.
MR. PORTER: GRADY, WOULD YOU -- I
KNOW GRADY IS ON THE BOARD, THE FOREVER
WILD BOARD, AND IF YOU WOULD -MR. HARTZOG: JIM JUST ASKED ME TO
SPEAK ON BEHALF OF FOREVER WILD. I'M ON

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THE FOREVER WILD BOARD AND JIM HAS BEEN ON

THE FOREVER WILD BOARD. IT'S A VERY
POSITIVE PROGRAM, AND WITHOUT THAT PROGRAM,
THE HUNTERS OF ALABAMA WOULD HAVE BEEN
WITHOUT FUNDS TO BUY LAND. AS YOU KNOW,
THE STATE DID NOT HAVE THE FUNDS TO BUY
LANDS FOR HUNTING FOR YEARS AND YEARS AND
YEARS AFTER THE PASSAGE OF FOREVER WILD.
THERE HAVE BEEN SOME REAL LARGE TRACTS -WITHOUT THIS PROGRAM, THE PARK WOULD HAVE
NOT HAVE THOSE FUNDS TO BUY LAND BUT ALSO
DELIVER IT TO THE FEDERAL GRANTS. SO
PLEASE GET OUT AND SUPPORT FOREVER WILD.
THANK YOU, GENTLEMEN.
MR. MOULTRIE: THANK YOU. NEXT
SPEAKER ON THE TOPIC OF DEER MANAGEMENT IS
ALLEN CROCKETT. WHERE IS YOUR COUNTY OF
RESIDENCE, ALLEN?
MR. CROCKETT: I'M HERE IN
MONTGOMERY.
MR. MOULTRIE: OKAY.
MR. CROCKETT: MY NAME IS ALLEN
CROCKETT; I'M FROM MONTGOMERY. I'M

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SPEAKING OUT ON -- AS A PRIVATE CITIZEN,

AND I'D LIKE TO TALK ABOUT SOME DEER
MANAGEMENT STUFF. AND I'VE LEARNED ONE
THING AFTER GOING BACK AND READING MINUTES.
I CAN'T TALK LIKE THE REST OF THESE PEOPLE
SO GOOD. I DO BETTER IN DISCUSSION, ASKING
QUESTIONS AND SO I CAN UNDERSTAND SOME OF
THE DECISIONS. IS MR. COOK HERE, CHRIS
COOK? ANYWAY, WHAT I'VE GOT THERE IS THE
DEER HUNTING RESULTS FOR WMAS, WHICH KIND
OF TIES IN OVER THERE AS FAR AS WHAT THE
PREVIOUS GENTLEMAN WAS TALKING ABOUT WITH
QUALITY DEER MANAGEMENT AND EVERYTHING
ELSE. WHEN I READ THE REPORT, ON THE FRONT
PAGE RIGHT HERE YOU WILL SEE THAT THIS IS A
QUOTE FROM THE -- THIS IS THE LATEST DEER
STUDY REPORT. AS THE PUBLIC'S DEMANDS FOR
MORE WMAS MANAGEMENT FOR BETTER QUALITY
DEER BECOMES STRONGER, THE DIVISION OF
WILDLIFE AND FRESHWATER FISHERIES MAY
DECIDE TO INITIATE DUTY IN PROGRAMS. WELL,
I THOUGHT THAT'S ALL WHAT THOSE WMAS WERE
FOR, THEY WERE STUDIES TO SEE WHAT -- THIS

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SAYS AS IT BECOMES STRONGER. THESE REPORTS

RIGHT HERE SEEM TO BE WRITTEN WITH VARIOUS,
TO ME, INFERENCES THAT, YOU KNOW, QDM IS
THE WAY TO DO SO, AS FAR AS IT EXPRESSES
THAT THE HERD CONDITION IS UNDERWEIGHT.
NOW, AS YOU GO BACK TO THE BARBOUR COUNTY
MANAGEMENT AREA, YOU TURN TO THE TABLE 9
RIGHT THERE. YOU HAVE THE WEIGHTS. YOU
HAVE LIKE 63 POUNDS AND 45 POUNDS, AND THEN
THE AVERAGE FOR ALL THE AREAS -- THE SECOND
PAGE IN THERE -- IS 52 POUNDS. WELL, ON
THE SAMPLE SIZES OVER THERE ON THE NEXT
PAGE, GENTLEMEN, IT COMES BACK AND YOU HAVE
LIKE A SAMPLE FOR ONE. SO FOR THE ENTIRE
COUNTY THE AVERAGE WEIGHT IS A SAMPLE OF
ONE. NOW, IF THEY'RE USING SOME TYPE OF
STATISTICAL THING THAT TAKES FOR ODD TYPE
SAMPLES, THEN OKAY. BUT WHEN YOU DID THAT
AND YOU HAD LIKE BLACK WARRIOR AT 63 AND
THERE WAS 12 DEER KILLED WITH THAT VALUE
AND THEN YOU COME BACK AND THERE'S AUTAUGA
COUNTY WITH TWO AND THE BLACK WARRIOR
WEIGHS ALMOST 50 PERCENT MORE, YOU COME

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BACK TO THE BOTTOM AND WE HAVE A DEER

CONDITION HERE, AS FAR AS THE HEALTH,
THAT'S UNDER -- THAT LOOKS LIKE IT'S
UNDERWEIGHT. IF THESE ARE THE SAME
STATISTICS THAT ARE BEING USED OVER AT
BARBOUR COUNTY, I THINK MAYBE YOU NEED TO
LOOK AT THAT.
NOW, WITH -- AND THIS
IS I GUESS WHERE I WAS GETTING AT, GOING TO
-- I WANT TO ASK Y'ALL QUESTIONS. THIS
SAME GENTLEMAN THAT PUBLISHED THIS REPORT
-- AND I DON'T UNDERSTAND -- YOU KNOW,
LET'S SAY THE DEER STUDY REPORT ON WMAS, HE
WAS ALSO QUOTED BY MR. DEBEN (PHONETIC) THE
OTHER DAY IN RESPONSE TO A QUESTION ABOUT
-- AND COMMISSIONER LAWLEY ALSO PROVIDED
THIS NUMBER THAT LAST YEAR WE NEEDED TO
KILL AN ADDITIONAL 138,000 EXTRA DEER TO
ACHIEVE MAGICAL HARVEST. WELL, YOU HAVE
THAT -- OKAY. THE RESPONSE WAS TO JUST -IN GENERAL, FOR MR. PENN, HE SAID THAT THIS
IS ACTUALLY ON ONE OF THESE PUBLIC FORUMS.
THEY SAID THE 130,000 FIGURE REFERENCED BY

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CROCKETT IS NOT OF HARVEST GOLD AND CAN

ONLY BE UNDERSTOOD WHEN PLACED IN ITS
PROPER CONTEXT. SO MY QUESTION IS -- I HAD
A GUY SEND ME A LETTER THE OTHER DAY. IT'S
A LETTER FROM THE GOVERNOR, GOVERNOR RILEY,
AND I UNDERSTAND LAST YEAR WE HAD SOME -AND IT'S IRREGARDLESS OF WHAT OUR POSITION
WAS LAST YEAR AS FAR AS THE DECISIONS THAT
WERE MADE. BUT THIS PERSON AND CITIZEN HAD
WRITTEN IN TO THE GOVERNOR AND WANTED TO
KNOW -- YOU KNOW, WHY WAS HE SUPPORTING
THIS OR WHAT WAS THE -- WHAT IS THE THEORY
FOR THE CONSERVATION ADVISORY BOARD FOR
CHANGES. THE GOVERNOR'S RESPONSE WAS THE
CONSERVATION ADVISORY BOARD HAS PROPOSED
THIS BILL DUE TO RECOMMENDATION BY STATE
BIOLOGISTS THAT AN ADDITIONAL 138,000 DEER
BE KILLED THIS YEAR IN ORDER TO GET THE
DEER POPULATION DOWN TO A MANAGEABLE LEVEL.
SO WAS THERE SOME -- AND THAT WAS
ATTRIBUTED TO Y'ALL. BECAUSE Y'ALL WERE
THE PEOPLE THAT -- THE REASON WHY Y'ALL DID
THAT. SO IF -- I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHY IF

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-- I'M HAVING A HARD TIME WITH THIS, TRYING

TO DRAW IT TOGETHER. WHY IS THERE A NUMBER
OUT THERE THAT THE GOVERNOR SAYS THERE'S
138,000, THERE SEEMS TO BE A PUSH TOWARD
QDM BY -- BY -- YOU KNOW, I UNDERSTAND IT'S
DIFFERENT THOUGHTS AS FAR AS WHAT'S BETTER,
BUT IF THERE'S A NUMBER THAT'S -- IF -- ARE
OUR HERDS BEING MANAGED FOR TROPHY DEER
HUNTING FOR QDM, OR IS IT BEING MANAGED FOR
HEALTHY DEER, WHICH IS WHAT REFLECTS IN THE
DATA STATEWIDE, IF YOU LOOK AT THE
AVERAGES. THAT'S WHAT I WANT TO KNOW FROM
Y'ALL AND FROM THE BIOLOGISTS AND STUFF.
AND HOW -- WHAT CAN WE DO TO KEEP FROM
HAVING THE GOVERNOR REPLY, FROM ONE OF THE
MAIN REASONS FOR SUPPORT, A NUMBER THAT WAS
NOT CORRECT? AND HOW CAN WE CHANGE THAT IN
THE FUTURE?
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: YOU HAVE ME
TOTALLY CONFUSED.
MR. CROCKETT: OKAY.
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: WE OBVIOUSLY
HAVE AN OVERPOPULATION IN CERTAIN COUNTIES

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AND AREAS OF THE STATE.

MR. CROCKETT: YES.
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: I THINK ANY
OF THESE GENTLEMEN DOWN HERE CAN TELL YOU
THAT. THAT NUMBER CAME OBVIOUSLY -- WE'RE
TALKING ESTIMATES. GARY MOODY, THEY CAN
GIVE YOU THE BEST SCIENTIFIC EXPERIENCE,
KNOWLEDGEABLE ESTIMATE OF WHAT THE DEER
POPULATION IS IN ALABAMA. YOU CANNOT TAKE
A CENSUS ON DEER. BUT THOSE FIGURES -- AND
I DON'T REMEMBER WHERE THE 138 CAME FROM.
GARY AND I HAVE TALKED ABOUT IT. IT WAS AN
E-MAIL TO ME. AND I THINK IT'S A VERY
REASONABLE AND DEFENDABLE FIGURE BASED ON
BROWSE LINES THAT THE BIOLOGISTS COME BACK
WITH BASED ON POPULATIONS THROUGHOUT THE
STATE. AS FAR AS -- AND THAT FIGURE IS NOT
TO BE USED AGAINST QDM; IT'S NOT TO BE USED
ANYTHING OTHER THAN SAYING THAT THAT'S
AVAILABLE IN ALABAMA -- NOT EVERY COUNTY,
BUT, YOU KNOW, IN SOUTH ALABAMA ESPECIALLY,
THE DEER HERD NEEDS TO BE REDUCED BECAUSE
OF THE SUPPORTING HABITAT THAT'S THERE.

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THAT'S WHERE THAT FIGURE CAME FROM. AND

WHAT WAS DONE WAS TRIED TO ENCOURAGE -- WE
CONTROL OUR POPULATIONS -- WE TRY TO
CONTROL OUR POPULATIONS THROUGH HUNTING.
THAT'S WHAT WE DO. THAT'S WHY WE HAD THE
BOW HUNTING IN OAK MOUNTAIN. AND SO WHAT
THIS ADVISORY BOARD HAS DONE IS TRIED DO
THINGS THAT WOULD ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO HUNT
AND INTRODUCE SOMEBODY ELSE TO HUNTING.
AND I'M CONFUSED AS TO WHERE YOU'RE WANTING
ME -MR. CROCKETT: OKAY. YOU GOT 138.
THE GOVERNOR RESPONDED THAT THE REASON FOR
THIS WAS BECAUSE IT WAS A HARVEST GOAL THAT
WE NEEDED TO KILL THAT MANY DEER.
MR. MOULTRIE: MR. CROCKETT, YOUR
TIME IS GETTING UP, BUT I'M GOING TO LET
YOU MAKE YOUR POINT.
MR. CROCKETT: WELL, I APPRECIATE
IT. THANK YOU.
MR. MOULTRIE: BRING IT TO A
POINT, AND WE'LL TRY TO GET YOUR QUESTION
ANSWERED, PLEASE, SIR.

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MR. CROCKETT: OKAY. YOU JUST

MADE ME FORGET -- I HAVE ADD; YOU'LL HAVE
TO FORGIVE ME. IF OUR POPULATION,
ACCORDING TO THE NUMBERS THAT ARE IN THAT
-- LET'S SAY WE'RE USING THE WMA NUMBERS.
IT REFLECTS VERY HEALTHY DEER. I MEAN,
THEY FALL EXACTLY IN THE RANGE OF WHAT IS A
HEALTHY HERD. SO I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW
YOU CAN INITIATE STATEWIDE THAT WE NEED TO
KILL 138,000 EXTRA DEER IF THE HERD IS
HEALTHY. AND I THINK THERE'S MANY, MANY
PEOPLE WHO WOULD DISAGREE WITH MR. MAY THAT
OUR POPULATION IS SOARING AND EVERYTHING
LIKE THAT. I'VE TALKED TO NUMEROUS,
NUMEROUS PEOPLE THAT STATE DIFFERENT
THINGS. AND I JUST WANT TO KNOW, ARE WE
GOING QDM, ARE WE TRYING -- WHAT IS OUR
MANAGEMENT GOAL NUMBER, THEN, HOW ABOUT
THAT? IS THERE A NUMBER THAT YOU'RE TRYING
TO GET TO AS FAR AS HARVEST? BECAUSE WE
SEEM TO BE TRYING TO MANAGE THE TROPHY DEER
AND KILL ALL THE DOES AND EVERYTHING ELSE.
I JUST WANT TO KNOW, WHAT IS THE PHILOSOPHY

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BEHIND THAT? WHAT ARE Y'ALL TRYING TO

ACCOMPLISH -MR. MOULTRIE: LET THAT BE THE
QUESTION.
MR. CROCKETT: AND I'M DONE.
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: GARY WILL
HAVE TO ANSWER THAT ONE.
MR. MOODY: WE DO NOT HAVE A
FIGURE THAT WE PLACED OUT THERE AND SAID
THIS IS THE ABSOLUTE NUMBER WE CAN HARVEST.
WHAT WE WANT TO ENSURE IS A HEALTHY DEER
HERD. YOU'RE RIGHT, THE FIGURES REFLECT
HEALTHY CONDITIONS. IF YOU'LL GO BACK AND
HARVEST THE -- GO BACK FOR 30 YEARS, WE
WERE HARVESTING THAT DEER THERE HEAVIER
THAN THE COUNTIES. WE'VE GOT A LONG -MR. MOODY: WE DON'T TAKE DATA
FROM THE MANAGEMENT AREAS AND SAY, THIS IS
WHAT IS REPRESENTED STATEWIDE IT'S
REPRESENTED EXACTLY WHAT'S ON THAT PIECE OF
PROPERTY. AND THAT'S THE WAY WE LOOK AT
ALL THESE MANAGEMENT GOALS FROM HUNTING
CLUBS, AND THAT'S THE REASON WE PUT -- ALL

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THE STUFF WE DID WITH THE QUALITY

MANAGEMENT PROGRAM AND ALL OUR HUNTING
CLUBS, LOOKED AT THEIR TRACTS INDIVIDUALLY
TO HELP MAKE SPECIFIC RECOMMENDATIONS ON
THAT PARTICULAR PIECE OF PROPERTY. WE VERY
MUCH SUPPORT QDM. WE THINK IT'S A VALID
GOAL AND A VALID WAY TO MANAGE DEER
HERDING, A PROPER WAY -- A PROPER WAY TO
MANAGE DEER HERDING, BUT WE THINK IT CAN BE
DONE BY INDIVIDUALS BY CHOICE ON THEIR LAND
AND ON THEIR LOCAL BASIS. BUT DON'T TAKE
THE MANAGEMENT HARVEST AND SAY THIS IS WHAT
-- BECAUSE WE DON'T SAY THAT ABOUT THE
WHOLE STATE. WE DON'T MAKE THAT JUMP ABOUT
THE WHOLE STATE.
MR. MOULTRIE: THANK YOU, MR.
CROCKETT.
MR. CROCKETT: ONE LAST THING.
WITH THAT SAID, IF THE MANAGEMENT AREA
HARVEST WAS RATED ABOUT 5.5 DEER PER, YOU
KNOW, LET'S SAY PER MILE TO WHATEVER -- PER
SQUARE MILE, WITH ONLY EIGHT OR TEN DAYS OF
PRESSURE -- YOU KNOW, THERE'S OBVIOUSLY

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MORE PRESSURE OFF THE MANAGEMENT AREA THAN

ON, I WOULD THINK. YOU DON'T THINK SO?
OKAY.
MR. MOULTRIE: MR. CROCKETT, IF
YOU WILL -MR. CROCKETT: THANK YOU.
MR. MOULTRIE: THANK YOU. WE
APPRECIATE YOUR TIME. THANK YOU. IF
YOU'LL ADDRESS YOUR CONCERNS TO YOUR
DISTRICT REPRESENTATIVE. THE NEXT SPEAKER
WILL BE MR. GENE DISMUKES FROM LOWNDES.
MR. DISMUKES: HOW ARE Y'ALL
DOING? I APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY TO
COME UP HERE AND TALK TO YOU ALL. WHAT I
WANTED TO TALK ABOUT IS THE SENATE BILL
244, AND I'VE GOT FRIENDS THAT IS FOR IT
AND FRIENDS THAT'S AGAINST IT. THE REASON
I'M FOR IT IS MANY YEARS AGO, 50 SOME-ODD
YEARS AGO OR MORE, WE MADE A LAW THAT SAID
THAT YOU COULDN'T BAIT DEER AND PROTECT OUR
WILDLIFE. AND I THINK THIS IS NECESSARY.
AND I THINK IT'S BEEN NECESSARY. BUT I
THINK IT'S TIME TO MAYBE CONSIDER A CHANGE.

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I DON'T KNOW THAT THE BILL -- THE WAY I

READ IT, IT NEEDS TO BE AMENDED IN SOME
PLACES. BUT I CALLED THIS DOCTOR FROM
LOUISIANA UNIVERSITY -- I COULDN'T GET
ANYBODY FROM AUBURN TO COME -- AND I'M AN
AUBURN PERSON. BUT ANYWAY, THIS MAN, HIS
NAME IS DR. ANDY MYRON, AND HE SAID -- THIS
IS IN THE LETTER. IT SAYS, I REALIZE THAT
THIS ARTIFICIAL FEEDING CAN INCREASE
WHITETAIL DEER NUMBERS, BUT LOW NUMBERS ARE
NOT GENERALLY A PROBLEM. THROUGHOUT THE
GEOGRAPHIC RANGE, WHITETAIL DEER
POPULATIONS GENERALLY HAVE INCREASED SINCE
THE 1950S, AND IN MANY REGIONS HAVE
EXPANDED THEIR RANGE AS HABITAT AND
MANIPULATIONS HAVE CREATED A FAVORABLE
LANDSCAPE CONDITION. THAT WAS BY WALLER
AND ANSEL (PHONETIC) OF 1997. IN THE
SOUTHEASTERN UNITED STATES, FOR EXAMPLE,
THE LOWEST POPULATION OCCURRED IN THE 1920S
FOLLOWING INTENSE COMMERCIAL ASSISTANCE
HARVESTING THE POPULATION BEGINNING TO
INCREASE FROM THE 50S BECAUSE OF THE

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TRACKING OF TRANSPORTATION PROGRAMS,

IMPROVED HABITAT CONDITIONS, AND LAWS OF
THE 1950S -- BECAUSE OF THE LAWS OF THE
1950S. THIS WAS BACK WHEN TEDDY ROOSEVELT
PUT IN THE LAW THAT WE WOULD START
RESTOCKING DEER AND TURKEY. AND THAT IS
WHY THE HELP OF SOME GREAT PEOPLE LIKE
MR. CHARLES KELLY AND BACK DOWN THE LINE,
THAT HAVE MADE OUR STATE WHAT IT IS AS FAR
AS DEER AND TURKEY AND WILDLIFE. IT SAID
THAT THROUGHOUT THE -- HOLD ON JUST A
MINUTE. AS POPULATION DECREASED IN THE
SOUTHEASTERN UNITED STATES, LEGAL HUNTING
WILL CONTINUE TO CLIMB THROUGHOUT THE END
OF THE 1900S. THE HARVEST OF THE WHITETAIL
DEER RESUMED IN THE 1970S WITH HARVEST
RISING FROM 76,769 IN 1975 TO 234,700 IN
1996-'97. I GUESS WHAT I'M GETTING AT IS
THAT, YOU KNOW, I CAN REMEMBER MR. KELLY AT
ONE TIME SAYING IT WAS HIS DREAM TO SEE THE
DEER HERD POPULATION IN THE STATE OF
ALABAMA AT A MILLION. WELL, CORRECT ME IF
I'M WRONG, BUT THE WAY I UNDERSTAND IT,

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RIGHT NOW, OUR POPULATION IS AT 2 MILLION.

AND IF ANYBODY KNOWS ANY BETTER THAN THAT,
THEN STAND ME CORRECTED. BUT I THINK IF
THIS FEEDING OF THE DEER IS WORKED
PROPERLY, IT CAN WORK. I'M NOT ONE OF
THESE PEOPLE THAT SAYS, LOOK, LET'S JUST
THROW IT AWAY BECAUSE WE CANNOT -- I THINK
IT CAN WORK IF IT'S CARRIED OUT PROPERLY,
AND WITH A COUPLE OF AMENDMENTS IN THE
BILL, IT WILL BE SUCCESSFUL. AND THAT'S
ALL I'VE GOT TO SAY.
MR. MOULTRIE: THANK YOU VERY
MUCH. THE NEXT SPEAKER WILL BE MR. GARY
HAWKINS FROM CULLMAN.
MR. HAWKINS: I'M GARY HAWKINS
FROM CULLMAN COUNTY. I WANTED TO VOICE MY
OPINION ON THE DEER MANAGEMENT, AND AS I
UNDERSTOOD, I HEARD EARLIER THERE IS 213
COMMERCIAL OPERATIONS WITH FENCES ALREADY
IN THE STATE AND A LOT OF THOSE PEOPLE WERE
TRYING TO GET INVOLVED IN THAT AND WAS
RAISING DEER FOR PROFIT. RIGHT HERE IN THE
FISH AND WILDLIFE RULES AND REGULATIONS

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BOOK, I READ HERE IT'S ILLEGAL IN ALABAMA

TO SELL ANY GAME BIRD OR GAME ANIMAL OR ANY
PART OF THE ANIMAL EXCEPT LAWFULLY TAKEN
DEER HIDE, DEER HOOVES AND SQUIRREL SKINS,
HIDES AND TAILS, THESE PRODUCTS, ITEMS. I
KNOW THESE PEOPLE, THEY MIGHT INVITE GUESTS
TO THEIR HUNTING CLUBS AND PUT THEM INSIDE
THE FENCE AND THE DEER SEEM TO ME ARE
DOMESTICATED. LIKE I ALSO HEARD SOMEBODY
SAYING ABOUT THE TURKEY. YOU KNOW, YOU SEE
THEM ON TELEVISION, THEY'RE STANDING THERE.
THEY KNOW WHERE IT'S GOING TO COME OUT, AND
THEY KNOW WHICH WAY IT'S GOING TO GO, AND,
YOU KNOW, THEY TELL THEM HOW MUCH IT'S
GOING TO COST BEFORE THEY SHOOT IT. I
DON'T SEE ANY SPORT IN HUNTING, YOU KNOW,
IN THAT. AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED, IT COULD
BE CATTLE OUT THERE. YOU TELL THEM HOW
MUCH IT'S GOING TO COST BEFORE THEY SHOOT
IT, THAT'S -- THE WAY I SEE THAT, THEY'RE
SELLING THE GAME, YOU KNOW. AND I DON'T
THINK IT SHOULD BE IN THE STATE AND I DON'T
THINK A LOT OF -- THEY'RE TRYING TO GET

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LAWS PASSED THAT WILL AFFECT ALL OF THE

OTHER DEER HUNTERS ALL OVER THE STATE. AND
BASED ON, YOU KNOW, THEIR DECISIONS THAT,
YOU KNOW, THEY'RE BASICALLY SEEKING A
PROFIT FOR THEMSELVES, AND THAT'S WHAT
MOTIVATES THEM TO WANT TO GET THESE LAWS
PASSED ALL OVER THE ENTIRE STATE, AND I
DON'T THINK THAT SHOULD BE -- AND I THINK,
YOU KNOW, BASICALLY ON THE MANAGEMENT OF
THE DEER HERD, DEER ARE DIFFERENT ALL OVER
DUE TO GEOGRAPHICAL LOCATION AND WHAT THEIR
HEALTH IN THE CERTAIN AREAS, YOU KNOW, TO
MAKE THE BIG BUCKS OR SMALL BUCKS, AND A
LOT OF THE PLACES LIKE WHERE WE HUNT UP IN
CULLMAN, WE'VE HAD A LOT OF PROBLEMS WITH A
LOT OF GENETICALLY SMALL DEER, AND WE HAD A
PROBLEM WHERE WE ONLY KILLED BIGGER BUCKS
FOR A WHILE AND WE WOUND UP WHERE WE NEVER
SAW ANY MORE BIGGER BUCKS. THERE WERE
SMALLER BUCKS RUNNING EVERYWHERE AND, YOU
KNOW, SO WE HAD TO GO BACK TO KILLING THE
SMALLER DEER.
MR. MOULTRIE: ONE MORE MINUTE.

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MR. HAWKINS: OKAY. WE HAVE A LOT

OF SMALLER DEER RUNNING AROUND, AND THE
RACKS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, THEY'RE NOT
REALLY PRODUCING A LOT OF BIGGER DEER.
BUT, YOU KNOW, I DON'T -- ON THE OTHER END
OF THE STATE OR IN ANOTHER PART OF THE -ON DOWN THE ROAD SOMEWHERE, THAT MAY NOT BE
THE CASE. SO I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD BE
PASSING LAWS OVER THE WHOLE ENTIRE -STATEWIDE THAT WOULD AFFECT DEER IN
DIFFERENT WAYS IN DIFFERENT AREAS. THANK
YOU.
MR. MOULTRIE: THANK YOU,
MR. HAWKINS. ON THE NEXT TOPIC, IT SAYS
DEER SUPPLEMENTAL FEED, MR. RALPH HAWKINS
FROM MARSHALL.
MR. HAWKINS: I'M RALPH HAWKINS
FROM MARSHALL COUNTY, AND I'D JUST LIKE TO
EXPRESS MY OPINION ON THE DEER SUPPLEMENTAL
FEEDINGS. BUT IT'S -- ANY WAY YOU LOOK AT
IT. I UNDERSTAND THEY'VE GOT TO COME UP
WITH THESE RESTRICTIONS THAT GOES THROUGH
-- IT'S GOING TO BE RESTRICTED. IT'S NOT

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GOING TO DO A THING BUT SQUARE A HUNTER OFF

AGAINST HUNTER, MAN AGAINST MAN, AND LAND
OWNER AGAINST LAND OWNER. THE MAN THAT CAN
AFFORD THE HIGHEST PRICE FEED AND THE MOST
FEED IS THE MAN THAT CAN PRODUCE THE MOST
DEER. BUT OUR CONSERVATION DEPARTMENT HAS
GOT ENOUGH; OUR OFFICERS HAVE ENOUGH TO
CONTEND WITH WITHOUT HAVING THESE OTHER
LAWS PUT ON THE BOOKS FOR THEM. THANK YOU.
(APPLAUSE.)
MR. MOULTRIE: THE NEXT SPEAKER
WILL BE MR. TOM GILMORE FROM JEFFERSON
COUNTY.
MR. GILMORE: I'M FROM BIRMINGHAM,
JEFFERSON COUNTY. I'M GOING TO BE REAL
BRIEF. I WANT TO SPEAK FOR JUST A MOMENT
ON ASLC, ALABAMA SPORTSMAN LANDOWNERS
COUNSEL. SOME OF YOU ARE FAMILIAR WITH IT;
OTHERS ARE NOT. BUT BASICALLY WHAT WE DO
IS WE WORK BEHIND THE SCENES WITH
INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE HUNTING CONFLICTS.
AND THIS CAN BE EITHER FROM A LAND OWNER OR
FROM CLUBS, INDIVIDUALS, GROUPS THAT HAVE

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PAID LEASE MONEY FOR LAND AND THEY FEEL

LIKE THAT THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO CONTROL
THAT LAND PROPERLY WITHOUT PEOPLE
OVERRUNNING THE LAND THAT THEY HAVE. WE DO
THIS, LIKE I SAID, BEHIND THE SCENES. A
LOT OF THEM DO NOT EVEN KNOW THAT THIS
GROUP HERE EVEN EXISTS. WE PUT OUT A
PERIODICAL REGULARLY, AND WE KEEP THEM
INFORMED ON VARIOUS THINGS GOING ON WITH
THE STATE. AND IF THEY CANNOT SOLVE THE
PROBLEM FIRST BEFORE IT EVER GETS THIS FAR,
WE TRY TO GET THEM IN TOUCH WITH THE PROPER
PERSON IN THE DISTRICT OR HAVE THEM PUT
TOGETHER A PRESENTATION TO GIVE TO THIS
GROUP. THAT'S ALL.
MR. MOULTRIE: THANK YOU,
MR. GILMORE. NEXT, MR. DON KNIGHT.
MR. KNIGHT: AND I THINK I AM DOWN
FOR TWO TOPICS. THE FIST TOPIC IS ON THE
FORM REGULATION. AND I'D LIKE FOR THE
BOARD TO UNDERSTAND THAT I HUNT IN BARBOUR
COUNTY. WE HAVE A CLUB OF 70 MEMBERS.
WE'VE BEEN HUNTING IN BARBOUR COUNTY FOR

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OVER 30 YEARS ON THIS SAME 4,000 ACRES,

OKAY, THAT'S JUST PART OF IT. WE'VE GOT
OTHER LANDS THAT WE DO THINGS ON. THIS IS
OUR DOG HUNTING LAND. A RESTRICTION WOULD
BASICALLY DESTROY OUR CLUB. WE TRY TO DO
THE BEST WE CAN. TO GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE,
THIS YEAR WE KILLED 75 DEER ON THAT
PROPERTY, OF WHICH 12 WERE OVER 190 POUNDS.
LAST WEEKEND THE COMMISSIONER AND DAN
MOULTRIE WERE ON THE STAGE WITH A DEER THAT
COME OFF OF OUR PROPERTY IN BARBOUR COUNTY
IN NOVEMBER. I THINK YOU WOULD SAY IT WAS
A RIGHT NICE DEER, 23 POINT, 225 POUND,
181.5 POINT SCORING SYSTEM. WE KILLED
NUMEROUS FINE RACK DEER THIS YEAR, WHICH
EACH ONE OF THEM HAD A PACK OF DOGS RUNNING
BEHIND IT. OUR NEIGHBORS KILLED NUMEROUS
FINE DEER COMING OFF OF OUR LAND, WHICH WE
APPRECIATE THEM DOING. MY GRANDSON, 10
YEARS OLD, KILLED A SPIKE THIS YEAR, AND
THAT WAS THE BIGGEST TROPHY. IT WOULDN'T
HAVE MATTERED HOW MANY POINTS OR HOW MUCH
IT WEIGHED, BECAUSE THAT SPIKE WAS THE

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BIGGEST TROPHY FOR HE AND MYSELF. NOW,

THAT TROPHY DIDN'T LAST BUT ONE DAY,
BECAUSE HE KILLED A SEVEN POINT THE NEXT
DAY, BUT THAT'S OKAY. WHEN YOU PUT A HORN
RESTRICTION, YOU'RE GOING TO TURN THESE
KIDS AWAY WHEN THEY CAN'T SHOOT THOSE DEER.
WE DON'T WANT THAT. YOU'RE GOING TO TURN
HUNTERS OUT OF BARBOUR COUNTY IF YOU PUT
THAT RESTRICTION ON THERE. WE DON'T NEED
THAT. OUR 70 MEMBERS HAVE NOT HEARD UNTIL
LAST WEEKEND REALLY A WORD ABOUT THIS
RESTRICTION GOING ON NOW, MAINLY BECAUSE
MOST OF US DO NOT LIVE IN BARBOUR COUNTY.
WE DIDN'T HEAR ABOUT IT OR WE DIDN'T KNOW
ABOUT IT. THIS THING IS GOING TO MAKE
PEOPLE LEAVE DEER LAYING IN THE WOODS.
IT'S GOING TO MAKE PEOPLE, IF THEY BRING
THEM OUT, THEN THEY'RE GOING TO BE BAD
HUNTERS INSTEAD OF GOOD HUNTERS. WE DON'T
NEED ALL THAT. WE DON'T NEED A RESTRICTION
IN BARBOUR COUNTY. BARBOUR COUNTY HAS GOT
SOME OF THE LARGEST DEER IN THIS STATE NOW.
ALL YOU'RE GOING TO DO IS RUN THE LAND

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LEASES TO THE POINT WHERE THE AVERAGE WAGE

EARNER IN THE STATE OF ALABAMA CANNOT HUNT,
PERIOD. IT'S JUST GOING TO TAKE US OUT OF
HUNTING. I'M ABOUT TWO YEARS AWAY FROM
RETIRING. I'M GOING TO BE ON A FIXED
INCOME. I HOPE I CAN STILL DRIVE FROM
CALHOUN COUNTY TO BARBOUR COUNTY TO HUNT.
BUT IF THE LEASED LAND KEEPS GOING UP LIKE
IT IS, WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO. IT'S
GOING TO GO TO ALL OUT OF STATE PEOPLE.
I'D LIKE TO ASK CORKY -- YOU CAN TELL ME
LATER, CORKY, BUT I'D LIKE TO KNOW IF THAT
REDUCTION INCLUDED THE INCREASE IN
OUT-OF-STATE HUNTERS, OR IS THAT JUST
RESIDENTIAL HUNTING LICENSES THAT HAVE GONE
DOWN 3.7 PERCENT. AND I KNOW OUT OF STATE
IN THE AREA I LOOKED, WHERE WE HUNT THERE
IN BARBOUR COUNTY, WE SEE A LOT OF OUR
STATE HUNTERS COMING IN. WE DON'T NEED
THAT. WE NEED TO PROTECT OUR IN-STATE
HUNTERS. I'M NOT AGAINST OUT OF STATE.
SOME OF THE PEOPLE IN OUR CLUB COME OUT OF
FLORIDA. WE CAN'T PUT THESE RESTRICTIONS

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ON OUR DEER ANYMORE. YOU SIT HERE AND

LISTEN TO THE DOVE PROBLEMS. HOW MANY
PEOPLE HAVE QUIT DOVE HUNTING BECAUSE WE'VE
JUST RESTRICTED THIS THING WHERE PEOPLE
DON'T UNDERSTAND IT. WE DON'T NEED THAT.
SO I'M ASKING YOU TO NOT PUT ANY KIND OF
HORN RESTRICTION IN BARBOUR COUNTY OR ANY
OTHER PART OF THIS STATE. WE'VE GOT THE
GREATEST DEER HERD AND THE FINEST LIMITS.
DON'T MESS WITH IT. IF YOU DO THAT LIMIT,
THEN OUR PEOPLE ARE GOING TO QUIT SHOOTING
THE DOES. THAT'S HOW WE GOT OUR DEER SO
BIG. WE TOOK THE GO DOES OUT. WE GOT IT
DOWN NOW WHERE WE THINK WE'VE GOT A 3 TO 1
RATIO BUCKS TO DOES.
MR. MOULTRIE: DON, YOU'VE GOT
ABOUT ONE MORE MINUTE.
MR. KNIGHT: ALL RIGHT. I'VE GOT
ABOUT 75 DEER ON OUR LAND THIS YEAR; 42 OF
THEM ARE BUCKS. WE'VE GOT OUR RATIO DOWN.
AND THAT'S WHAT IT TAKES. YOU'VE GOT THREE
THINGS THAT CREATE BIG DEER: AGE, FOOD,
AND GENETICS. THE CONSERVATION DEPARTMENT

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HAS TAKEN CARE OF OUR GENETICS. THAT'S ALL

WE CAN DO. WHAT Y'ALL HAVE BROUGHT IN AND
PUT HERE, WE THANK YOU. AGE, I GUARANTEE
YOU, WE CAN'T KILL ENOUGH DEER. THEY'LL
TAKE CARE OF THEIR OWN AGE. ALL WE NEED TO
DO IS FEED THEM. AND I DON'T MEAN HUNTERS
FEEDING -- BAITING. I'M TALK ABOUT GREEN
FEEDERS, OKAY. SO I JUST ASK YOU NOT TO
PASS THAT.
NOW, MY SECOND TOPIC, DAN.
MR. MOULTRIE: GO AHEAD.
MR. KNIGHT: DOG DEER HUNTING. I
HOPE WE SHOWED LAST YEAR THAT WE WERE
WILLING TO WORK TO TRY TO CORRECT PROBLEMS
WHEN THE SITUATIONS COME UP WITH THE DOG
DEER HUNTING. THE HERDING SYSTEM WAS VERY
MUCH APPRECIATED IN THOSE AREAS. WE DIDN'T
-- I DIDN'T HEAR OF A LOT OF PROBLEMS THIS
YEAR. THE MAIN PROBLEMS I HEARD FROM THIS
YEAR WERE DOGS BEING SHOT, WHICH WE NEED TO
HANDLE THAT SOME WAY, BUT THAT'S JUST PART
OF SOME OF IT SOMEPLACE. BUT THE DOG DEER
HUNTING ALSO TOOK A LOT OF PEOPLE OUT OF

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THIS STATE HUNTING WHEN YOU DID AWAY WITH

IT. YOU'VE GOT A LOT OF FOLKS, ESPECIALLY
IN THE NORTHWEST COUNTIES -- I'VE HAD CALLS
FROM THEM, YOU KNOW, I JUST CAN'T HUNT
ANYMORE. WE DON'T NEED THAT. WE KNOW WE
DON'T NEED PROBLEMS. WE'LL HELP YOU WORK
ON THOSE PROBLEMS ANY WAY WE CAN, AND WE
WOULD LIKE TO LET YOU KNOW WE'LL DO THAT.
NOW, MR. HARBIN, I DON'T MEAN TO PICK ON
YOU, MR. HARBIN, BUT YOU SAT THERE AND SAID
THERE'S NOBODY THAT ASKED FOR PERMIT
SYSTEMS IN FRANKLIN COUNTY AND -MR. HARBIN: THEY HAVEN'T ASKED
ME.
MR. KNIGHT: YOU'RE RIGHT THERE.
YOU'RE TOTALLY CORRECT THERE, BECAUSE I
THINK WE DOCUMENTED THE PHONE CALLS WHERE
WE COULD GET YOU TO CALL US BACK.
MR. HARBIN: I DON'T THINK SO.
MR. MOULTRIE: LET'S DON'T ATTACK
THE BOARD.
MR. KNIGHT: OKAY. WE DON'T NEED
THAT. BUT I JUST WANT THE PEOPLE TO KNOW

00175
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THAT WE ARE WORKING ON GETTING PERMIT

SYSTEMS FOR THOSE COUNTIES ANY WAY WE CAN,
AND WE'RE WILLING TO WORK WITH THE BOARD
MEMBERS ANY WAY WE CAN. AND THAT HAS BEEN
APPROACHED. DOG DEER HUNTING IS AN
EXCELLENT WAY TO HAVE YOUNG PEOPLE GET INTO
THIS SPORT, AND IT'S A REAL GOOD WAY FOR US
SENIOR CITIZENS TO BE ABLE TO HUNT FOR MANY
MORE YEARS AFTER OUR NORMAL HUNTING TIME
WOULD BE OVER. WE JUST ASK THAT YOU
CONSIDER GIVING THOSE COUNTIES BACK THEIR
DOG HUNTING -- ESPECIALLY UP THERE IN
FRANKLIN, LAMAR, MARION, WINSTON, AND GIVE
THEM A CHANCE TO COME BACK WITH A PERMIT
SYSTEM. WITHOUT IT, WHY WOULD PEOPLE EVEN
WANT TO TALK? I MEAN, REALLY. THEY WANT
TO COME AND WORK ANYTHING OUT THEY'VE GOT,
BUT IF YOU PUT IT BACK IN, THEN THERE'S A
POSSIBILITY WE CAN WORK OUT PERMIT SYSTEMS
AND WE'D BE MORE THAN WILLING TO WORK WITH
ANYBODY WE CAN. AND WE HAVE HAD SEVERAL OF
YOU OFFER TO HELP US AND WE APPRECIATE
THAT. WE JUST ASK THAT YOU CONSIDER THE

00176
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DOG HUNTING AS AN INTEGRAL PART OF HUNTING

IN THE STATE OF ALABAMA. WE WILL CONTINUE,
WE WILL HELP ANY WAY WE CAN.
AND MR. JOHNSON, I
TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU A WHILE AGO, IF
THERE'S SOMETHING WE CAN DO TO PROMOTE -GET THESE FINES UP ON THESE PEOPLE HUNTING
THESE ROADS OR ANY OTHER LAW BREAKING OUT
THERE WE DO, ALABAMA DOG HUNTERS
ASSOCIATION WILL SUPPORT IT WHOLEHEARTEDLY
100 PERCENT, I ASSURE YOU. WE WANT THE
FINES HIGH. I DIDN'T QUITE THINK THAT
$1,000 YOU WAS TALKING ABOUT WAS HIGH
ENOUGH. I DIDN'T THINK IT WAS CLOSE TO
HIGH ENOUGH. SO THE DOG HUNTER ASSOCIATION
WILL SUPPORT THAT IN ANY WAY ON THESE
PEOPLE BREAKING THE LAWS. WE WANT THEM OUT
OF THERE WORSE THAN YOU DO. AND I THANK
YOU FOR YOUR TIME. ANY QUESTIONS, I'LL BE
GLAD TO ANSWER THEM.
MR. MOULTRIE: THANK YOU, SIR.
(APPLAUSE.)
MR. MOULTRIE: ALL RIGHT. THE

00177
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SPEAKERS WE HAVE FOR THE DOG DEER HUNTING,

FOR, AND DOG DEER HUNTING AGAINST, AGAIN, I
JUST ASK YOU FOR THE PURPOSE OF -- I READ
THAT ARTICLE EARLIER, YOU KNOW SHARE WHAT
YOU'VE GOT THE BEST YOU CAN. WE WANT TO
HEAR BOTH SIDES BECAUSE WE WANT TO BE GOOD
NEIGHBORS ALSO. SO LET'S START WITH THE
DOG DEER HUNTING, FOR. FIRST SPEAKER IS
PHILLIP BAKER.
MS. NUMMY: ALL RIGHT. WE
ALTERNATE THIS AT EVERY MEETING; I JUST
WANT EVERYBODY TO KNOW. "FOR" WILL BE -AND WE STARTED THIS LAST YEAR. WE DO "FOR"
AND THEN "AGAINST," AND THEN THE NEXT
MEETING WILL BE "AGAINST" AND THEN "FOR."
SO -- I GET THAT QUESTION ALL THE TIME; I
JUST WANTED TO MAKE THAT CLEAR.
MR. MOULTRIE: MR. BAKER, GO
AHEAD. WE'VE LET SOME OTHER PEOPLE EXPAND
ON THEIR SCHEDULE. WE'LL TRY TO KEEP
STRICTLY TO THE CLOCK HERE, SO IF YOU'LL
WATCH YOUR TIME, PLEASE, SIR.
MR. BAKER: YES, SIR. MY NAME IS

00178
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PHILLIP BAKER. I'M FROM NORTHEAST DALE

COUNTY AND I WANTED TO GO AFTER THE
PROPOSAL -- FOR THE ANTI-DOG PROPOSAL. I
UNDERSTAND THERE'S GOING TO BE SOME
PROPOSALS MADE AS FAR AS DALE COUNTY DOG
DEER HUNTING, AND I REALLY WANTED TO GO
AFTER THOSE PROPOSALS WERE MADE, BUT I
DIDN'T HAVE TIME TO MEMORIZE THIS AND I'M
NEW TO ALL THIS, SO JUST BEAR WITH ME. I'M
GOING TO READ FROM WHAT I HAVE AND JUST IF
THERE'S ANY QUESTIONS. AND IT SAYS FOR A
LONG PERIOD OF TIME DOG DEER HUNTING HAS
BEEN A PART OF THE YEARLY DEER HUNTING
SEASON IN DALE COUNTY AS WELL AS THE
MAJORITY OF THE STATE OF ALABAMA. CERTAIN
MEASURES ARE BEING TAKEN BY A VERY SMALL
MINORITY OF LANDOWNERS AND ANTI-DOG HUNTERS
TO ELIMINATE DOG DEER HUNTING IN DALE
COUNTY. THESE PEOPLE HAVE BEGUN A CAMPAIGN
TO GIVE THE IMPRESSION THAT DOG DEER
HUNTING IN DALE COUNTY HAS HAD SOME SORT OF
NEGATIVE IMPACT ON CERTAIN COMMUNITIES,
WHEN IN FACT THEIR SOLE MOTIVATION IS TO

00179
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MARKET THEIR LAND TO HUNTERS WHO WILL PAY

OUTRAGEOUS AMOUNTS OF MONEY TO LEAST THEIR
PROPERTY. THESE INDIVIDUALS FEEL THAT DOG
HUNTING ACTIVITY DISCOURAGES POTENTIAL
STOCK HUNTING CLIENTS, AND FOR THIS REASON
ALONE, THEY'RE MOTIVATED TO STOP DOG DEER
HUNTING. THEY RECEIVED HELP AND ADVICE
FROM PEOPLE OF INFLUENCE WHO HAVE
SUCCESSFULLY STOPPED OR MICROMANAGED OR
MICRO-REGULATED DOG DEER HUNTING IN OTHER
COUNTIES. THE FACTS ARE THAT ALL OF THEIR
COMPLAINTS ABOUT DOG DEER HUNTING HAVE NO
MERIT, AND SOME OF THEIR COMPLAINTS ARE
FABRICATED. DEER DOGS HAVE ACCIDENTALLY
GOTTEN ON THE PROPERTY ON WHICH OWNERS DID
NOT HAVE PERMISSION, BUT SO HAVE SOME OF
THE YARD PETS AND LIVESTOCK IN MY
COMMUNITY. APOLOGIES HAVE BEEN EXTENDED TO
THE LANDOWNERS WHO HAVE BEEN AFFECTED AND
EFFORTS TO PAY A REASONABLE PER ACRE RATE
TO LEASE SOME OF THE LANDOWNERS PROPERTY
HAS BEEN ATTEMPTED, AND NONE OF THESE
EFFORTS HAVE CHANGED THEIR POSITIONS ON DOG

00180
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DEER HUNTING. I PRAY THAT THE ISSUE OF

REGULATING DOG DEER HUNTING IN DALE COUNTY
WILL NOT BE CONSIDERED SERIOUSLY BY THIS
BOARD WITHOUT EQUAL REPRESENTATION FROM DOG
DEER HUNTERS IN THIS COUNTY AND AN
OPPORTUNITY FOR THE CITIZENS OF DALE COUNTY
TO BE INFORMED OF THE CONTRIBUTIONS THAT
THE DOG DEER HUNTERS IN DALE COUNTY PROVIDE
TO THE OVERALL CONSERVATION GOALS THAT HAVE
BEEN SET BY THIS DEPARTMENT AND TO THE
ECONOMY OF THE SMALLER COMMUNITIES IN DALE
COUNTY. I'D LIKE TO PROPOSE THE FOLLOWING
ON BEHALF OF RIVER RIDGE AND WEST FORK
HUNTING CLUBS, WHICH ARE LOCATED ON THE
NORTHEAST SIDE OF DALE COUNTY. THESE CLUBS
HAVE JOINT HUNTING PERMITS AND LEASES ON
APPROXIMATELY 8,700 ACRES. NUMBER 1, I
RESPECTFULLY REQUEST THAT NO REGULATORY
MEASURE ON DOG DEER HUNTING BE CONSIDERED
BY THIS BOARD UNLESS THE COMPLAINT
REPRESENTED TO THIS BOARD CAN BE VERIFIED
AS HAVING MERIT BY AN ENFORCEMENT OFFICER
OF THIS DEPARTMENT. I ALSO ASK THAT A

00181
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REPORT OF ALL COMPLAINTS FILED IN DALE

COUNTY HAVING NO MERIT BE MADE AVAILABLE TO
THE PERSON OR PARTIES ALLEGED -MR. MOULTRIE: YOU'VE GOT ABOUT
ONE MORE MINUTE.
MR. BAKER: AND I RESPECTFULLY
REQUEST THAT A REPORTED LAW VIOLATION BY
ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS IN DALE COUNTY BE
POLLED AND THAT THE STATISTICS ON VIOLATORS
WHO ARE STOCK HUNTING AND DOG HUNTING BE
COMPARED BY THIS BOARD BEFORE CONSIDERING
ANY REGULATORY MEASURES AGAINST DOG DEER
HUNTING. I RESPECTFULLY REQUEST THAT THIS
BOARD REVIEWS CONSERVATION PRACTICES AND
THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT IS SPENT WITHIN IN
OUR COMMUNITY BEFORE CONSIDERING ANY
REGULATORY MEASURES AGAINST DOG DEER
HUNTING IN DALE COUNTY. A LARGE QUANTITY
OF MONEY IS DEVOTED TO TRACT -- OUR PERMIT
LEASE HOLDERS. OUR CLUB MEMBERS PROVIDE
THE MANPOWER AND RESOURCES TO MAINTAIN
ROADS ON OUR PERMIT LEASE HOLDERS. THESE
COSTS ARE IN ADDITION TO THE LEASE PAYMENTS

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WHICH ARE DUE EACH YEAR FOR MAINTENANCE.

I'D LIKE TO THANK YOU IN ADVANCE FOR YOUR
ATTENTION TO THIS MATTER, AND I PRAY THAT
THIS MATTER CAN BE RESOLVED WITHOUT ANY
REGULATORY MEASURES BEING TAKEN AGAINST DOG
DEER HUNTING IN DALE COUNTY. THANK YOU.
(APPLAUSE.)
MR. MOULTRIE: THE NEXT SPEAKER IS
MR. DONALD COCHRAN.
MR. COCHRAN: DONALD COCHRAN,
GRAYSVILLE, ALABAMA. I'M REPRESENTING THE
NORTHWEST ALABAMA HUNTING CLUB. I'D LIKE
TO RECOGNIZE THE CHAIRMAN, COMMISSIONER,
AND BOARD THIS MORNING. Y'ALL ARE DOING A
WONDERFUL JOB. YOU JUST GIVE US OUR DOG
HUNTING BACK. FIRST OFF, I'D LIKE TO SPEAK
FOR CORKY, THERE AIN'T NO TALKING ABOUT
RAISING NO BUFFALO. THE ONE THAT YOU'RE
TALKING OF IS HERE IN THE NORTHWEST ALABAMA
SECTION OF THE STATE. HE'S AN HONORARY
MEMBER OF OUR HUNTING CLUB. THAT'S BUFFALO
BOB. THEY WAS TALKING ABOUT THE BIRD
WATCHERS. I DON'T KNOW WHETHER ANY OF

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Y'ALL SEEN IT THIS PAST WEEK OR WEEK BEFORE

LAST, BUT PEOPLE WAS COMING FROM FLORIDA,
TENNESSEE, LOUISIANA TO BIRMINGHAM TO SEE A
HAWK THAT WAS IN BIRMINGHAM, OUT OF CANADA,
I BELIEVE IT WAS. BUT GETTING ON TO DOG
HUNTING. WE WOULD LIKE VERY MUCH TO GET
OUR DOG HUNTING BACK. AND I CAN'T SAY I
WAS MISINFORMED. MAYBE I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND
WHAT I WAS SUPPOSED TO DO OR WHAT, BUT
MR. JOHNSON, IN YOUR COMPLAINTS THERE, DID
YOU HAVE A COMPLAINT AGAINST THE NORTHWEST
ALABAMA HUNTING CLUB? DO YOU KNOW WHERE
IT'S AT ON LAKE ROAD?
MR. COLES: I DIDN'T LOOK AT IT.
MR. COCHRAN: I DON'T THINK YOU
DID. I DON'T KNOW OF ANYONE THAT WE HAD.
WE DIDN'T EVEN SEE A GAME WARDEN THIS YEAR.
SO WE SHOULD BE A PRETTY GOOD CLUB. BUT
THE FINES THAT DON WAS TALKING OF THERE AND
WHAT YOU WERE READING OUT A WHILE AGO,
$1,000, NO, THAT'S NOT ENOUGH. WE'VE GOT
PEOPLE THAT RUN UP TO THE ROAD IN AREAS UP
THROUGH THERE, THAT ARE OUTLAWS OR ROAD

00184
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HUNTERS OR WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL THEM.

THEY SHOULD BE FINED AND PUT IN JAIL. THEY
SHOULDN'T BE ALLOWED TO DO IT YEAR IN AND
YEAR OUT. IF THEY PAY A FINE, THEY'LL
APPEAL IT AND GO TO COURT, AND SOME OF THEM
HAVE BEEN TURNED LOOSE BECAUSE THE
WITNESSES ARE AFRAID OF THEM. BUT THAT'S
NOT THE POINT. MY POINT IS GETTING BACK TO
GETTING A PERMIT FOR OUR CLUB. I DON'T
UNDERSTAND WHAT I HAVE TO DO. I NEED
SOMEBODY TO SIT DOWN AND GO OVER IT WITH
ME. I KNOW TODAY IS NOT THE TIME TO DO IT,
BUT JUST LEAD ME THROUGH IT, AND WE'LL GET
IT DONE. GENTLEMEN, I THANK YOU.
MR. MOULTRIE: I'D LIKE TO THANK
MR. COCHRAN ALSO. HE'S SERVED -- SPENT HIS
OWN PERSONAL TIME AND MONEY TO SERVE ON A
SUBCOMMITTEE FOR US, AND HE'S DONE A GREAT
JOB.
MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU.
MR. MOULTRIE: THE NEXT TO SPEAK,
MR. RICKEY HAYES.
MR. HAYES: MR. CHAIRMAN,

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COMMISSIONER, MEMBERS OF THE BOARD, I'M

RICKEY HAYES. I REPRESENT THE PETERMAN
CREEK HUNTING CLUB IN HENRY COUNTY. WE'VE
NOW HUNTED FOR ONE YEAR UNDER THE PERMIT
SYSTEM, AND WE'VE FOUND IT IS NOT A PERFECT
SYSTEM, BUT IT IS A MANAGEABLE ONE -- WAY
TO HUNT. IT HAS GREATLY REDUCED THE NUMBER
OF DOGS THAT ARE TURNED LOOSE AT ONE TIME
AND INCREASED THE DISTANCES FROM OUR
NEIGHBORS' PROPERTIES WHERE WE TURN OUR
DOGS LOOSE. WE COMPLY, EVEN THOUGH WE FELT
AT THE BEGINNING THAT THE CARDS WERE
STACKED AGAINST US. WE COMPLY EVEN THOUGH
IT'S LIMITED OUR FREEDOM AND CHANGED SOME
OF OUR HUNTING ACTIVITIES. WHY HAVE WE
BEEN WILLING TO COMPLY? BECAUSE OF THE
CHILDREN OF OUR MEMBERS. ON ANY GIVEN
SATURDAY OR SCHOOL HOLIDAY, WE CAN HAVE
FROM 10 TO 20 CHILDREN RANGING IN AGE FROM
6 YEARS OLD TO HIGH SCHOOL AGE HUNTING WITH
US ALL DAY, AND THEY LOVE IT. THESE
CHILDREN ARE LEARNING ABOUT THE WOODS, NOT
JUST THE INSIDE OF A SHOOTING HOUSE.

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THEY'RE LEARNING SPORTSMANSHIP; LEARNING TO

RESPECT THE LAND AND RIGHTS OF OTHERS;
LEARNING THE RESPONSIBILITY OF CARING FOR
AND HANDLING A DOG; LEARNING TO HANDLE
FIREARMS SAFELY AROUND OTHERS. MORE
IMPORTANTLY, THEY'RE LEARNING ALL THESE
THINGS FROM THEIR DADDY, SPENDING QUALITY
TIME WITH HIM. THERE WILL NOT SIMPLY BE
SPORT HUNTING 50 YEARS FROM NOW IF WE DON'T
FOSTER A LOVE FOR IT IN OUR CHILDREN.
WE'VE ALSO COMPLIED FOR OURSELVES, THE
LOCAL FAMILIES. MUCH OF THE 3,500 ACRES WE
HUNT WAS OWNED BY OUR OWN MEMBERS. WE GREW
UP HUNTING AND WANT TO CONTINUE, SO WE DO
WHAT WE HAVE TO TO CONTINUE HUNTING. WE
PROFESSORS, PIPE FITTERS, PULPWOODERS, AND
A PARAPLEGIC THAT HUNTS WITH US. WE ALSO
HAVE A PERMIT SYSTEM. AND IF THAT'S WHAT
IT TAKES TO KEEP HUNTING, WE'RE GOING TO
MAKE IT WORK. I URGE YOU TO DO NOTHING
THAT WOULD DESTROY THE SPORT OF DOG DEER
HUNTING IN HENRY COUNTY. ON BEHALF OF THE
PETERMAN CREEK HUNTING CLUB, I'D LIKE TO

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THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME AND ATTENTION, AND

I'D ALSO LIKE TO THANK OUR CONSERVATION
OFFICERS FOR THE TIME AND EFFORT THAT THEY
HAVE PUT INTO THIS PERMIT SYSTEM.
(APPLAUSE.)
MR. MOULTRIE: THANK YOU,
MR. HAYES. THE NEXT SPEAKER WILL BE
MR. PHILLIP HOLLAND FOR ARITON, ALABAMA,
DALE COUNTY.
MR. HOLLAND: I AM REPRESENTING
THE WEST FORK HUNTING CLUB. AND WE'RE
ABOUT 25 MEMBERS, AND WE WERE -- WE
ACTUALLY HUNTED ABOUT 30 DAYS DURING THIS
HUNTING SEASON, TURNED A DOG LOOSE PROBABLY
45 TIMES. WE SPENT A LOT OF MONEY ON
TRACKING EQUIPMENT TO KEEP TRACK OF THESE
DOGS AND TRY TO KEEP THEM OFF OF OUR
PROPERTY OWNERS THAT WE'RE NOT ALLOWED TO
GET ON. WE HAVE PERMISSION FOR ABOUT 5200
ACRES THAT WE HUNT ON. MOST OF THAT WE
DON'T RENT. OUR FRIENDS AND NEIGHBORS AND
LANDOWNERS ARE GRACIOUS ENOUGH TO LET US
HUNT THAT BECAUSE WE RESPECT THEIR PROPERTY

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AND HELP THEM THROUGH THE YEARS. WE

PROVIDE A SERVICE TO THEM, AS THEY DO TO
US. AND IN THE PAST FIVE YEARS, WE HAVEN'T
HAD A DOCUMENTED VIOLATION OF ANY KIND FOR
THE DOGS BEING IN THE WRONG PLACE OR EVEN A
VIOLATION FOR SOMETHING WE'VE DONE WRONG,
AS FAR AS A HUNTING VIOLATION. THERE'S
BEEN SOME PEOPLE IN THAT COMMUNITY THAT I
UNDERSTAND ARE CIRCLING PETITIONS TO STOP
DOG DEER HUNTING, AND WE ARE ASKING YOU TO
LOOK AT THESE PETITIONS AND THINGS, AS
THEY'RE NOT ALWAYS A TRUE PICTURE OF WHAT A
COMMUNITY WOULD LIKE. WE CIRCULATED A
PETITION TO KEEP DOG DEER HUNTING, AND
WE'VE GOT HUNTERS, NAMES OF PEOPLE THAT
DON'T HUNT, PEOPLE THAT ARE NOT EVEN
LICENSED. AND WE'RE JUST ASKING YOU TO
LOOK AT THE STATISTICS, LOOK AT THE
CONSERVATION PEOPLE. WE'VE HAD NO
VIOLATIONS, NO PROBLEMS WITH 99 PERCENT OF
THE PEOPLE IN THIS COMMUNITY. DON'T BASE
YOUR DECISION ON ONE OR TWO THAT WE'VE HAD
A PROBLEM WITH, AS I'M SURE IF WE GO TO AND

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SIT DOWN, WE CAN WORK THESE PROBLEMS OUT

WITH. WE'RE JUST ASKING YOU TO CONTINUE TO
LET US RUN THE DOGS, JUST LOOK AT THE
STATISTICS AND BASE YOUR DECISION ON -- YOU
KNOW, WE'VE HAD ENOUGH PROBLEMS, AND WE'RE
DOING -- WE'VE TAKEN EVERY EFFORT TO
CONTROL WHERE THE DOGS GO AND TRY TO KEEP
THEM OFF THE PEOPLE'S PROPERTY. THANK YOU.
MR. MOULTRIE: NEXT SPEAKER WILL
BE MR. REX KELLEY FROM SAMSON, ALABAMA.
MR. KELLEY: I'M REX KELLEY. I'M
FROM COFFEE COUNTY. I LIVE IN COFFEE
COUNTY. I REPRESENT TIE CREEK HUNTING
CLUB, AND WE LIVE OVER THERE IN THE SMALL
PORTION OF COFFEE COUNTY WHICH WAS -- HAS
HAD THEIR DOG HUNTING TOOK AWAY FROM US IN
THE LAST TWO YEARS, AND WE'RE ASKING FOR IT
BACK. IF WE HAVE TO DO IT UNDER THE PERMIT
SYSTEM, THEN WE'RE WILLING TO ABIDE BY IT.
WE HAVE OUR OWN LAND IT WAS RUN ON, AND WE
JUST WANT THE OPPORTUNITY TO GET OUR
HUNTING BACK. THE WAY IT IS NOW, WE CAN'T
EVEN HUNT ON OUR OWN PROPERTY. WE PAY

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TAXES ON IT, BUT WE CAN'T HUNT ON IT. AND

I DON'T THINK IT'S RIGHT, AND WE WANT OUR
HUNTING BACK WHATEVER IT TAKE TO GET IT. I
HOPE Y'ALL UNDERSTAND, IT'S FAMILY
TRADITION. AND WE WOULD LOVE TO HAVE IT
BACK FOR OUR KIDS AND OUR GRANDKIDS DOWN
THE ROAD. AND I APPRECIATE Y'ALL'S TIME.
(APPLAUSE.)
MR. MOULTRIE: NEXT SPEAKER IS
MR. WYNNTON MELTON FROM GENEVA, WHO HAS
ALSO TAKEN HIS PERSONAL TIME AND EFFORTS TO
RUN ONE OF OUR SUBCOMMITTEES.
MR. MELTON: WYNNTON MELTON,
GENEVA COUNTY. DID YOU ALL GET A LETTER
FROM ROBBY HANDLER ABOUT THE PERMIT SYSTEM
IN GENEVA COUNTY? I CAN'T REALLY SEE WHO'S
BACK THERE AND WHO ISN'T, I DON'T KNOW
WHETHER HE'S BACK THERE OR NOT, BUT WE
VOLUNTEERED AND BY REQUEST WENT TO THE DOG
DEER HUNT AND PERMIT SYSTEM IN GENEVA
COUNTY THIS PAST SEASON. WE DID SIT DOWN,
A FEW OF US, AND KIND OF HAMMERED OUT SOME
OF THE CONDITIONS OF THE AGREEMENT AND

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REVIEWED IT TWO DAYS AGO AND PUT IT IN

WRITING, AND ROBBY WAS GOING TO SEND IT TO
YOU ALL, SO YOU'LL PROBABLY GET IT WITHIN
THE NEXT FEW DAYS. BUT ANYWAY, I GUESS YOU
MIGHT SAY SOME OF THESE COMMENTS ARE FROM
COMBINED REPORTS LIKE THE AP BULLETINS, BUT
I'M TOLD THAT -- CERTAINLY OF SOME POSITIVE
COMPONENTS, THAT IT'S JUST ABOUT ELIMINATED
THE ROAD HUNTING PROBLEM. THAT'S WHAT I
WAS TOLD BY CONSERVATION OFFICERS, THAT IT
HAD JUST ABOUT ELIMINATED THE ROAD HUNTING
PROBLEM. WELL, THAT CERTAINLY IS A BIG
STEP, A BIG, BIG STEP IN THE RIGHT
DIRECTION, BECAUSE IN THE 32, 33 YEARS I'VE
BEEN COMING TO THESE MEETINGS, THAT HAS
BEEN THE NUMBER 1 COMPLAINT I'VE HEARD ON
DOG DEER HUNTING. THE BIG PROBLEM AS WE
KNOW IT IS DOG TRESPASS, WHATEVER YOU WANT
TO CALL IT WHEN THEY GET AWAY FROM YOU.
AND REALISTICALLY, IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN
SOME. I DID A LITTLE SURVEY ON OURS. WE
HAD ABOUT A 7 PERCENT DOG TRESPASS. NOW,
THAT DIDN'T MEAN THAT THEY GOT AWAY AND GOT

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ON FOLKS' LAND ABOUT 7 PERCENT OF THE TIME,

ONLY ABOUT 2 PERCENT OF THE TIME. WE HAD
COMPLAINTS FILED AGAINST OUR CLUB. EVERY
CLUB IN GENEVA COUNTY HAD COMPLAINTS FILED
AGAINST THEM EXCEPT ONE. WE HAD ONE THAT
DID NOT. BUT YOU'RE GOING TO PROBABLY
INCREASE YOUR COMPLAINTS WHEN A PERSON
THINKS THAT THEY HAVE A LITTLE CONTROL AND
THEY CAN MAKE SOMETHING HAPPEN WITH IT, THE
COMPLAINTS ARE ARGUABLY NOT THAT SEVERE AS
THIS DOG. A DOG GETS AWAY FROM YOU
SOMETIMES IN THEIR PURSUIT OF GAME, AND ANY
OF YOU WHO HAS EVER HUNTED WITH DOGS OF ANY
KIND, YOU KNOW THAT IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN,
BUT IT'S CERTAINLY GETTING BETTER. AND IN
THE LITTLE CLUB THAT I'M IN, ABOUT 98
PERCENT OF OUR TIME WAS SPENT WITH DOGS
ONLY ON OUR PROPERTY. THE DOGS WERE OFF
OUR PROPERTY PROBABLY 2 PERCENT OF THE
TIME, AND NORMALLY, THEN, NOT ON PROPERTY
WHERE THERE WAS ANYBODY THAT CARED. BUT
STILL, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE SOME COMPLAINTS
THAT'S GOING TO BE ISSUED. THIS THING IS A

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WORK IN PROGRESS. IT'S NOT OVER WITH. IT

CAN BE UNDER CONTINUE REVIEW, BUT IT CAN
WORK AND THERE'S NOT ANY QUESTION IN MY
MIND THAT IT'S WORKING IT TO A DEGREE IN
GENEVA COUNTY. I THINK OUR PROBLEMS ARE
MUCH LESS. MAYBE THEY AREN'T. MAYBE I
DON'T KNOW ALL THAT'S HAPPENING, BUT IT
CERTAINLY APPEARS THAT WAY. BUT THE BIG
THING IS, IT IS AN APPROACH. IT'S
SOMETHING THAT YOU CAN WORK AT. IT'S
SOMETHING THAT YOU CAN WORK TOGETHER WITH
PEOPLE ON AND SEEK SOLUTIONS RATHER THAN
JUST MAKING QUICK, SIMPLE, SIMPLISTIC
DECISIONS JUST TO STOP SOMETHING. THERE'S
ROOM OUT THERE FOR ALL KIND OF HUNTERS.
WE'VE GOT PLENTY OF DEER. I COULDN'T HELP
BUT THINK -- YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THIS DEER
MANAGEMENT AND WHETHER THEY OUGHT TO HELP
THE DEER HERD OR NOT. MY LORD, IF YOU GREW
UP IN THE 40S AND EARLY 50S IN ALABAMA, MY
GOD, MAN, WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? WE
DIDN'T HAVE ANY DEER. WE HAVE DEER NOW.
WE GOT SOMETHING TO ARGUE OVER. WE GOT

00194
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SOMETHING TO HUNT. WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY

DEER. SO SOMETHING'S WORKING WELL.
SOMETHING'S WORKING WELL. ONE MINUTE,
THANK YOU. AND IT WON'T TAKE ONE MINUTE
FOR ME TO CONCLUDE. BUT WHAT I WANT IS FOR
YOU ALL TO CONSIDER -- LET'S GIVE THIS
THING ENOUGH TIME TO WORK. IT'S NOT GOING
TO WORK OVERNIGHT, BUT LET'S GIVE IT ENOUGH
TIME TO WORK; LET'S LOOK AT IT; LET'S
REVIEW; LET'S WORK TOWARDS SOLUTIONS AND BE
AS REASONABLE AS REASONABLE PEOPLE CAN BE
FOR EVERYBODY TO ENJOY THE GREAT ALABAMA
OUTDOORS WITH THEIR BIRD DOGS IN THE FIELD,
THEIR RETRIEVERS BY THEIR SIDE, AND THAT
OLD HOUND DOG SITING ON THE PORCH
SCRATCHING A FEW FLEES, WE WANT HIM TOO.
(APPLAUSE.)
MR. MOULTRIE: THE NEXT SPEAKER
WILL BE PHILLIP RUGG FROM TROY, ALABAMA.
MR. RUGG: MY NAME IS PHIL RUGG.
I'M FROM COFFEE COUNTY. I REPRESENT
(INAUDIBLE) HUNTING CLUB. MY ONLY CONCERN
IS -- I DON'T KNOW THAT YOU'VE HAD ANY

00195
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COMPLAINTS TURNED IN ON US OR NOT, BUT IF

WE HAVE, REVIEW THE COMPLAINTS. DON'T JUST
TAKE THE OPINION OF SOMEBODY THAT MAY BE
YOUR NEXT DOOR NEIGHBOR. I'VE GOT FOLKS
THAT OWN 50 ACRES OUT OF -- WE'VE GOT
3,000. AND THEY HUNTED ON MY PROPERTY, BUT
THEN THEY WANT TO CALL AND COMPLAIN BECAUSE
ONE OF MY DOGS WENT ACROSS ON THEIR
PROPERTY. AND I THINK THAT'S WRONG. I GOT
A BUDDY THAT WAS HUNTING ON MINE THE DAY
THEY CALLED IN AND COMPLAINED. AND WHEN HE
WENT AND TALKED TO THE FOLKS, FOUND OUT THE
LADY WAS MISTAKEN, SHE ADMITTED IT. BUT
SHE HADN'T ADMITTED IT TO YOU ALL. NOBODY
KNOWS THAT BUT ME AND THE GAME WARDEN THAT
CAME TO INVESTIGATE. I DON'T THINK ANYONE
WANTS TO BE PUNISHED FOR ANYTHING JUST ON
AN ACCUSATION. I THINK IT SHOULD BE
DOCUMENTED AND THEN HAVE TO BE PROVED. AS
FAR AS BEING ON THEIR PROPERTY OR ANYTHING
ELSE. WHEN YOU GO TO COURT, YOU HAVE TO
PROVE ONE WAY OR THE OTHER. HERE ALL YOU
HAVE TO DO IS JUST CALL. YOU DON'T HAVE TO

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DO ANYTHING. IF YOU GET ENOUGH CALLS, THEY

DON'T HAVE TO HAVE ANY PROOF AT ALL. IF
I'M GOING TO BE CONVICTED OF SOMETHING IN
COURT, YOU'VE GOT TO PROVE THAT BEYOND A
REASONABLE DOUBT. BUT THEY DON'T HAVE TO
DO THAT. ALL THEY HAVE TO DO IS MAKE A
PHONE CALL, AND I THINK THAT'S WRONG.
THANK YOU.
MR. MOULTRIE: THANK YOU VERY
MUCH.
(APPLAUSE.)
MR. RUGG: MY DAUGHTER WOULD LIKE
TO SAY SOMETHING TOO.
MR. MOULTRIE: YES, GO AHEAD.
MS. RUGG: I WOULD JUST LIKE TO
SAY THAT I'M 25 YEARS OLD AND I'VE BEEN
HUNTING SINCE I WAS 2 YEARS OLD, AND I LOVE
IT AND I THINK IT'S -MR. MOULTRIE: YOU'RE DOING FINE,
GO AHEAD. YOU'RE DOING GREAT.
MS. RUGG: I JUST THINK THAT DEER
DOG HUNTING IS A WONDERFUL OPPORTUNITY FOR
A LOT OF CHILDREN. MY DADDY TAKES CHILDREN

00197
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THAT DON'T BELONG TO HIM THAT DON'T HAVE A

FATHER FIGURE IN THEIR LIVES, AND THEY'RE
VERY APPRECIATIVE TO HIM. IF YOU TAKE THAT
AWAY FROM THEM, YOU'RE TAKING AWAY AN
OPPORTUNITY THAT MANY OF THEM DON'T HAVE.
AND WHEN YOU WATCH THE 6 O'CLOCK NEWS AT
NIGHT, YOU NEVER HEAR ANYTHING GOOD; ALL
YOU HEAR IS THE BAD. AND THAT'S THE SAME
WAY THIS IS, YOU NEVER HEAR THE GOOD
THINGS, YOU ALWAYS HEAR THE BAD. IF YOU
COULD SEE THE LOOKS ON THOSE CHILDREN'S
FACES WHEN THEY KILL THAT FIRST DEER, IT
WOULD BE WORTH MORE THAN ANYTHING THAT YOU
COULD EVER TAKE AWAY -- ANYTHING. THANK
YOU.
MR. MOULTRIE: I DON'T THINK YOU
COULD HAVE ANY BETTER TRIBUTE TO BE GIVEN
TO YOU THAN WAS JUST GIVEN BY YOUR
DAUGHTER.
MR. RUGG: THANK YOU, SIR.
MR. MOULTRIE: THE NEXT SPEAKER
WILL BE STEADMAN SHEALY.
MR. SHEALY: MY NAME IS STEADMAN

00198
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SHEALY. I OWN LAND AND LIVE IN HENRY

COUNTY, ALABAMA. I WANT TO THANK THE BOARD
FOR IMPLEMENTING THE PERMIT SYSTEM IN HENRY
COUNTY. WE OF COURSE ASKED YOU TO BAN DOG
HUNTING IN HENRY COUNTY, BUT THERE WAS AN
AGREEMENT WORKED OUT, AND I WANT TO COMMEND
MOST OF THE DOG HUNTERS. I THINK Y'ALL DID
A GREAT JOB IN HENRY COUNTY. I REPRESENT A
BUNCH OF LANDOWNERS THERE AS A PART OF OUR
GROUP THAT WE FINALLY FELT LIKE WE HAD TO
DO SOMETHING. BUT I WANT TO SAY I FEEL
LIKE THAT THE PERMIT SYSTEMS FOR MOST OF
HENRY COUNTY WORKED VERY WELL, AND I THINK
MOST OF THE DOG HUNTING CLUBS DID A GREAT
JOB. NOW, THE SAD PART IS, I'M ALWAYS THE
ONE THAT GETS ABUSED, BECAUSE I HAVE FOUR
DOG HUNTING CLUBS THAT HUNT RIGHT AROUND
ME. AND IN PARTICULAR, I THINK SEVERAL OF
THE CLUBS DID A PRETTY GOOD JOB; THE OTHER
CLUBS DID NOT. AND THE THING I'D LIKE FOR
THE BOARD TO CONSIDER IS TO GIVE US A
LITTLE TEETH IN OUR PERMIT SYSTEM TO WHERE
THE CLUBS THAT ARE DOING RIGHT AND THAT ARE

00199
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TRYING HARD, WE CAN KEEP DOG HUNTING -- I

SAID ALL ALONG FOR TEN YEARS, I DON'T MIND
IF YOU HUNT DEER WITH DOGS, THAT IS
ABSOLUTELY FINE AND I'M ALL FOR IT; I'M ALL
FOR HUNTING. BUT THE PROBLEM BEING THAT
THEY'VE JUST ALWAYS HUNTED MY LAND
REPEATEDLY FOR TEN YEARS. I'VE ALWAYS -YOU KNOW, YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT LANDOWNERS
AND I'VE ALWAYS FELT THAT I'VE BEEN KIND OF
ABUSED FOR TEN YEARS, AND THEN WE FINALLY
CAME UP WITH THE PERMIT SYSTEM. AND THE
ONLY PROBLEM IS I CALL OUR GAME WARDENS OUT
THERE AND THE BURDEN IS NOW PUT ON ME TO
RUN AROUND ALL SATURDAY OR EVERY HOLIDAY TO
CHASE THEIR DOGS BEFORE I CAN PROVE
ANYTHING. OF COURSE, WE WERE ABLE TO, AND
I KNOW Y'ALL WANT PROOF, BUT, YOU KNOW,
THEIR DOGS ARE RUNNING RIGHT UNDER MY
STAND, AND I'M JUST NOT QUICK ENOUGH TO GET
DOWN AND THROW A GUN ON MY BACK AND CHASE
THEM. I USED TO BE PRETTY QUICK AND I
COULD RUN WHEN I PLAYED AT ALABAMA, BUT
CAN'T -- I'M JUST NOT THAT QUICK. SO THE

00200
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GAME WARDEN SAYS, WELL, I'M SORRY,

STEADMAN, YOU DON'T HAVE ANY PROOF. I SAY,
BUT THEIR TRUCK IS RIGHT OUTSIDE MY LAND
WITH THEIR LITTLE TRACKING DEVICE. ISN'T
THAT SOME PROOF? SO THE THING I'M ASKING
IS THAT -- DON'T PUT THAT BURDEN BACK ON ME
TO HAVE TO CHASE THEIR DOGS BEFORE YOU'LL,
YOU KNOW, AGREE THAT THERE'S A PROBLEM WHEN
THERE ARE TRUCKS ALL ALONG THE ROAD
TRACKING IT, AND YOU STOP THEM, AND THEY
SAY, WELL, I'M NOT SURE IF THAT'S MY DOG OR
NOT. WELL, WHY IS HE A MILE FROM HIS
HUNTING CLUB? YOU KNOW IT'S HIS DOG. SO
WE NEED A LITTLE MORE TEETH IN THE SYSTEM.
I THINK THE PERMIT SYSTEM, WE'RE WILLING TO
GIVE IT ANOTHER TRY. I COMMEND THE DOG
HUNTERS. I THINK MOST OF THEM -- THERE'S
ONE OR TWO CLUBS THAT NEED TO BE BANNED AND
YOU NEED TO HAVE THE COURAGE TO DO IT. YOU
KNOW WHO THEY ARE. I'VE TALKED TO THEM.
AND THE CRAZY THING IS, THEY'RE NOT FROM
HENRY COUNTY. BUT THEY NEED TO BE GONE,
AND IF WE CAN DO THAT, I'LL PROBABLY BE THE

00201
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HAPPIEST GUY AROUND, AND YOU PROBABLY WON'T

SEE ME UP HERE AGAIN. BUT THEY JUST
REPEATEDLY RUN MY LAND, EVEN WHEN THEY'VE
BEEN WRITTEN BY THE CAPTAIN AND SAID, LOOK,
THERE'S ANOTHER COMPLAINT. AND THEY, YOU
KNOW, THEY KEEP ON KEEPING ON JUST BECAUSE,
I DON'T KNOW, MAYBE THEY JUST CAN'T CONTROL
THEIR DOGS OR WHATEVER. BUT I DID WANT TO
THANK YOU, AND I APPRECIATE YOU BEING
WILLING TO HAVE A PERMIT SYSTEM. AND I
WANT TO THANK LEWIS, WHO DOES A GREAT JOB.
HE LISTENS AND IS THERE FOR EVERYBODY,
WHETHER IT'S LANDOWNERS, DOG HUNTERS, HE'S
WILLING TO LISTEN, AND I THANK YOU.
(APPLAUSE.)
MR. MOULTRIE: ALL RIGHT. NOW
WE'LL GO TO THE OTHER SIDE. NEXT SPEAKER
WILL BE MR. LARRY ADAMS OF WASHINGTON
COUNTY.
MR. ADAMS: MR. CHAIRMAN, MR.
COMMISSIONER, THE BOARD. I MAY NOT GET
MUCH OF AN APPLAUSE WHEN I FINISH HERE, BUT
IN OUR AREA WE'VE ENDURED SEVERAL -- I

00202
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DON'T KNOW ABOUT THIS PERMIT SYSTEM Y'ALL

ARE TALKING ABOUT; I'D BE INTERESTED TO
FIND OUT. BUT MY BROTHER-IN-LAW CAME WITH
ME TODAY, AND WE OWN AND MANAGE ABOUT 5500
ACRES. AND I JUST DOCUMENTED -- I LEFT
Y'ALL A LETTER THAT I WROTE LAST YEAR
BRINGING OUT A COUPLE OF PROBLEMS THAT I
HAD, BUT THIS YEAR I WANTED TO GIVE Y'ALL
SOME DOCUMENTATION OF HOW OUR HUNTING
SEASON WENT. BEGINNING ON NOVEMBER THE
20THE, THE DAY THAT AUBURN BEAT ALABAMA
AGAIN, WE WERE UNFORTUNATE IN THAT IT
RAINED THAT DAY IN OUR AREA AND WE DIDN'T
HAVE ANY DOG HUNTING. WE DIDN'T DO ANY
HUNTING THAT DAY. BUT ON NOVEMBER THE
20TH, I PERSONALLY LAID MY HANDS ON THREE
DOGS. THEY BELONGED TO THE HILLS. ON THE
26TH, I LAID HANDS ON A JONES DOG, A
TAYLOR, AND A DIXON. ON DECEMBER THE 1ST,
I CAUGHT TWO DOGS, MADE SOME COMPLAINTS,
HAD TWO DEER CARCASSES DUMPED IN MY
DRIVEWAY. ON SATURDAY, DECEMBER THE 11TH,
I RUN A QUAIL HUNTING PRESERVE AND I HAD

00203
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FIVE DOG TO RUN THROUGH MY QUAIL -- WHILE I

WAS TRYING TO HUNT, AND IT WAS VERY
DISRUPTIVE. I COMPLAINED. YOU KNOW, I GOT
A BUCKET OF GUTS IN MY DRIVEWAY. DECEMBER
THE 24TH RANDY CAUGHT A DOG THAT WAS
APPROXIMATELY FIVE MILES FROM WHERE THE
OWNER HAD PERMISSION TO HUNT. DECEMBER THE
29TH ON A WEDNESDAY I CAUGHT A DIXON DOG
AND A WAR DOG. JANUARY THE 1ST, I CAUGHT
HILL, JONES, AND KIRKLAND DOGS. ON JANUARY
26, I CAUGHT ANOTHER WAR DOG AND A JEMISON
DOG. AND IT GOES ON AND ON TO THE END OF
THE SEASON. I HAD SEVEN DEER HUNTERS
HUNTING IN PROBABLY IN A TEN MILE RADIUS OF
MY CAMP, AND OUT OF THE SEVEN HUNTERS THERE
WAS FIVE OF THOSE HUNTERS HUNTING IN THE
AFTERNOON THAT HAD DEER DOGS IN THEIR PACK.
I'M NOT AGAINST DOG HUNTING. I DON'T CARE
WHAT THEY DO, BUT IN MY PARTICULAR AREA -AND FOR THE YOUNG LADY THAT JUST TALKED
ABOUT HER FATHER, I HAVE CHILDREN MYSELF,
AND MY DAUGHTERS LIKE HUNTING WITH ME. AND
THEY TRAVEL -- THEY'RE ALL GROWN NOW AND

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ARE PROFESSIONALS, AND THEY BRING THEIR

FRIENDS AND THEY DRIVE LONG DISTANCES, AND
THEY'RE NOT ABLE TO ENJOY THE OUTDOORS IN
MY AREA -- AND WE HAVE A PRETTY SUBSTANTIAL
AMOUNT OF LAND -- FOR THE FACT THAT THESE
PEOPLE THAT RUN DEER WITH DOGS ARE
EVERYWHERE. AND SO I WOULD BE INTERESTED
TO KNOW WHAT TYPE SITUATION THESE PEOPLE
HAVE IN OTHER COUNTIES, THESE PERMITS OR
WHATEVER, BUT IT'S A TRAVESTY IN MY AREA.
AND I THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.
MR. MOULTRIE: NEXT SPEAKER WILL
BE CHIQUITA BAKER FROM FRANKLIN COUNTY.
MS. BAKER: I JUST WANTED TO THANK
THE BOARD FOR BANNING DOG DEER HUNTING IN
FRANKLIN COUNTY. I KNOW YOU'VE HEARD THAT
WE'VE HAD SOME -- WE'RE STILL HAVING SOME
PROBLEMS, BUT IT'S SO MUCH BETTER THAN IT
WAS BEFORE. YOU KNOW, I DON'T THINK THAT
ANY LANDOWNER CAN SAY THAT DOGS ARE RUNNING
ON THEIR PROPERTY EVERY DAY, AS IT HAS BEEN
IN THE PAST, SO WE'RE JUST REAL THANKFUL TO
YOU GUYS. I ALSO WANTED TO COMMEND --

00205
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MR. MODER (PHONETIC) READ A LETTER THAT

MYRON MORROW (PHONETIC), ONE OF OUR LAW
ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS, WROTE. THEY DID A
REAL GOOD JOB WITH TRYING TO CONTAIN THE
ILLEGAL DOG DEER HUNTERS. BUT THEY ALSO, I
THINK, WROTE ABOUT 70 CITATIONS FOR NIGHT
HUNTING IN FRANKLIN COUNTY, AND THAT WAS
MYRON MORROW AND SHANNON HOLLOWAY
(PHONETIC). SO I THINK THEY'VE DONE A
GREAT JOB, AND I JUST WANT TO COMMEND THEM.
THANK YOU.
MR. MOULTRIE: THE NEXT SPEAKER
WILL BE WENDELL HARMON FROM CHAMBERS
COUNTY.
MR. HARMON: THANK Y'ALL FOR
GIVING ME THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK TODAY.
I HAD MY SPEECH ALREADY READY AND WRITTEN,
BUT THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF TALK TODAY AMONG
PEOPLE THAT ARE DOG HUNTERS AS TO THE
FAMILY ASPECT OF IT. WELL, I UNDERSTAND
WHERE YOU'RE COMING FROM. I KILLED MY
FIRST DEER BEHIND A DOG -- IN FRONT OF A
DOG. I WAS BORN AND RAISED DOG HUNTING. I

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WAS A DUES-PAYING MEMBER FOR 10 TO 12

YEARS, OWNED DOGS. I KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE
TO DO THAT. BUT THERE IS A DIFFERENT WAY.
IF YOU WANT TO HUNT DEER WITH DOGS, THEN
YOU RUN THEM TILL YOUR DOG'S FEET RUN OFF;
I DON'T CARE. KILL EVERY DEER YOU SEE; I
DON'T CARE; THAT'S UP TO YOU. BUT KEEP
THEM OFF MY LAND. THAT'S ALL I'M ASKING
YOU TO DO IS KEEP THEM OFF MY LAND. I'M
FROM CHAMBERS COUNTY, AND WE HAVE A PERMIT
SYSTEM, AND IT WORKS. I BELIEVE IT WORKS.
BUT LIKE MR. SHEALY ALLUDED TO, IT NEEDS
SOME TEETH IN IT. YOU CAN ASK MR. ANDERSON
-- I'VE SPOKEN WITH HIM. WHEN I CALL
MONTGOMERY, THEY KNOW MY VOICE. MR.
HARMON, WHAT IS YOUR COMPLAINT TODAY. OVER
15 TIMES IN A 10-WEEK SEASON I CALLED, FROM
THE SAME HUNTING CLUB EVERY TIME. CATCH
THE DOGS. OKAY. YOU EVER TRIED TO CATCH
ONE? IT'S PRETTY NEAR IMPOSSIBLE. I 1500
ACRES OF LAND, GOT ANOTHER 900 LEASED.
IT'S PRETTY DIFFICULT. I KNOW WHOSE DOGS
THEY ARE. THEY'RE A HALF A MILE FROM MY

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HOUSE. THEY'RE RIGHT BESIDE THE HIGHWAY.

I CAN SEE THEM EVERY DAY I WANT TO.
THEY'VE GOT RED COLLARS. YOU KNOW, I MEAN,
YOU CAN TELL THEM ALL THIS. GIVE THE GUY
SOME TEETH. GIVE THEM SOMETHING TO DO WHEN
THEY WRITE COMPLAINTS AND GO TO THE CLUB
AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN. TAKE THE PERMIT
AWAY FROM THEM. DON'T LET THEM HUNT AGAIN
LIKE THAT. MAKE THEM DO SOMETHING ELSE.
THESE GUYS THAT ARE DOING THEIR BEST, I
MEAN, I APPLAUD THEM. I HAD A CLUB TWICE
IN THE LAST TWO YEARS THAT CALLED ME AND
CAME TO ME THAT SAID, MAN, WE'VE GOT DOGS
THAT'S DONE GOT AWAY FROM US; THEY AIN'T ON
YOUR PROPERTY, BUT THEY'RE IN YOUR BLOCK;
WILL YOU HELP US. YOU KNOW WHAT I DID? I
GOT IN THE GUY'S TRUCK WITH HIM AND I
HELPED HIM CATCH HIS DOGS. AND HE WENT
BACK WHERE HE COME FROM. THEY WAS FIVE OR
SIX MILES AWAY.
THAT'S HOW IT'S SUPPOSED
TO BE DONE. AND YOU GUYS THAT ARE DOING
THAT, THE LANDOWNERS APPRECIATE THAT. BUT
THOSE OF YOU THAT ARE RUNNING OVER AND

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GIVING DOG HUNTERS A BAD NAME AND THEN

GIVING LANDOWNERS LIKE ME A BAD TASTE IN
THEIR MOUTH, AND THAT'S WHAT'S PUSHING
PEOPLE TO GET TO WHERE THEY HATE DOG
HUNTING. THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT IT IS. IT'S
NOT THE FACT THAT PEOPLE ARE RUNNING DEER
WITH DOGS; IT'S THE FACT THAT YOU'RE
RUNNING OVER MY RIGHTS, MY RIGHTS TO LAND
THAT GOD, THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION,
AND THE LAWS OF THIS STATE GAVE ME.
HUNTING WITH DOGS IS A PRIVILEGE, A
PRIVILEGE THAT YOU GENTLEMEN DISCOVERED.
IT'S NOT A RIGHT; IT'S A PRIVILEGE. NOW,
DON'T LET THAT PRIVILEGE TRAMPLE ON MY
RIGHTS, THAT'S ALL I'M ASKING. IN CHAMBERS
COUNTY, THERE'S ONE CLUB THAT I HAVE
TROUBLE WITH, AND THAT'S IT. ALL I'M
ASKING YOU TO DO IS TO LOOK INTO IT AND
TAKE THAT RIGHT AWAY FROM THAT CLUB. THANK
YOU VERY MUCH.
(APPLAUSE.)
MR. MOULTRIE: THE NEXT SPEAKER
WILL BE NOBLE HOLLAND FROM COLBERT COUNTY.

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MR. HOLLAND: I'M NOBLE HOLLAND

FROM COLBERT COUNTY, AND THIS IS AS CLOSE
AS I'VE EVER BEEN TO A MIC, SO JUST BEAR
WITH ME. 45 YEARS AGO THEY TURNED A DEER
LOOSE ON OUR PROPERTY. WE DIDN'T ASK FOR
IT, BUT THEY DID, AND WE WERE GLAD OF IT.
I WAS TICKLED TO DEATH. 17 YEARS, ONE
BROKE ITS NECK IN OUR TRUCK. MY FATHER AT
THAT TIME TOLD ME, HE SAID, YOU WILL BE
SORRY FOR THAT SOME DAY, BUT I WASN'T. I
PROTECTED DEER, AND I FED THEM, AND I FEED
THEM NOW. I FEED CORN TO THEM, NOT TO HUNT
THEM BUT TO PROTECT THEM AND ALSO WITH THE
TURKEY. WE'VE ALWAYS HAD SOME OUTLAWS THAT
HUNT DEER, BUT THIS TIME WE HAVE -- WE HAVE
700 ACRES. IT'S 18 PEOPLE, THEY'VE ALL
WRITTEN THEIR PHONE NUMBERS DOWN. YOU'LL
HAVE TO TALK LOUD TO THEM BECAUSE SOME OF
THEM ARE 90 YEARS OLD. AND I'M
REPRESENTING THEM. IF THERE WAS ANYBODY
ELSE TO DO IT, THEY SHOULD BE HERE. BUT WE
-- UP TO THIS YEAR WE'VE JUST ENDURED THE
HUNTING. THEY WOULD COME UP TO THE

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PEOPLE'S YARDS, THE 90-YEAR-OLDS. THEY

WERE AFTER A DEER THEY CAME THROUGH THE
YARDS, WHATEVER IT TOOK, WITH THEIR
FOUR-WHEELERS AND THEIR SHOOTING. AND THIS
IS WHAT WE'RE CONTENDING WITH. I KNOW THE
INSURANCE COMPANIES WANT DOG HUNTING
STOPPED BECAUSE OF THE WRECKS. BUT WHERE
WE ARE, THERE'S 700 ACRES OF WOODS, AND
THEN IT GOES FOR 7 MILES OF OPEN FIELD.
THOSE DEER ARE NOT GOING TO LEAVE THOSE
WOODS TO HIT THOSE -- TO GO TO WHERE THE
CARS ARE. THEY'RE NOT GOING TO DO THAT.
BUT WHEN YOU'VE GOT DOGS RUNNING THEM, THEY
ARE. AND I'M A HUNTER OF ANY KIND. I HUNT
DOVE, QUAIL, BIRD, SQUIRREL, RABBIT, DEER,
AND I LOVE HUNTING. I'VE DOG HUNTED ALL MY
LIFE. WHAT WE'VE GOT THIS YEAR WAS SOME
COYOTE HUNTERS, AND THEY LEASED A LITTLE
PIECE OF LAND RIGHT THERE. ONLY THING THEY
GOT IT FOR IS TO PUT THEIR TRAILERS THERE.
IT WAS TEN OF THEM. THEY HAD FROM 20 TO 30
DOGS EACH. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'RE FAMILIAR
WITH COYOTE HUNTINGS, BUT YOU GET HOUNDS,

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YOU RUN THE COYOTE OUT IN THE OPEN FIELD,

AND THEN YOU HELD A GREYHOUND BRED TO A
RUSSIAN WOLFHOUND, AND HE CATCHES A COYOTE,
LETS THE OTHER DOGS KILL IT. NOW, THAT'S
WHAT THEY DO. NOW, THEY CAN CATCH DEER
LIKE THIS, AND THEY DID. ONE BOY BRAGGED
TO ME THAT HE KILLED 37 DEER. I MEAN,
THAT'S -- TO ME, THAT -- I SAID WELL, WHAT
DID YOU DO WITH THEM? NOTHING, WE FED THEM
TO THE DOGS. AND THE ONE I FOUND, THEY
JUST CUT THE BACK STRAPS OUT AND LEFT THE
DEER THERE. WE'VE GOT A PLACE 12 MILES
FROM THERE THAT WE'LL PROCESS THE DEER AND
GIVE THEM TO THE POOR. THEY DIDN'T WANT TO
TAKE IT THAT WAY. I ASKED THEM, I SAID WHY
WOULD YOU KILL 37? HE SAID, WELL, WE WAS
KEEPING SCORE; WE WERE TRYING TO GET MORE
THAN OTHERS. I SAID, WELL, YOU LIE ABOUT
EVERYTHING ELSE; WHY DON'T YOU LIE ABOUT
THAT. I DON'T KNOW WHAT WE CAN DO WITH IT.
IF IT'S ONE THING -- I RESPECT THE GIRL WHO
SAID WHAT SHE DID. I'VE GOT GIRLS. I'VE
GOT THREE GIRLS AND I HAVE GRANDCHILDREN,

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BUT THEY CAN'T HUNT WHERE MY PROPERTY IS.

I WOULDN'T ALLOW THEM OUT THERE. YOU TAKE
30 TO 60 DRUNKS OUT THERE ON HIGH-POWERED
RIFLES, I DON'T WANT MY CHILDREN ANYWHERE
AROUND THEM. THAT'S ONE THING I DID -- I
HAD A BUNCH OF NOTES HERE, BUT I WAS SO PRO
AND CON EVERYBODY THAT GOT UP HERE, I WAS
ON THEIR SIDE ON EVERYTHING. BUT I FISH
TOO. AND YOU GO TO THE RIVER AND YOU GOT
TWO CANS OF BEER IN YOU, AND YOUR COOLER,
THEY'LL PUT YOU IN JAIL. BUT YOU PUT A
HALF A PINT OF WHISKEY IN YOUR
FOUR-WHEELER, YOU CAN RIDE OVER ANYBODY'S
PROPERTY YOU WANT TO. GENTLEMEN, I HOPE I
GOT A PLACE -- IT'S 700 ACRES AND THEN
ABOUT 7,000 ACRES OF OPEN LAND. IF THERE'S
ANY WAY THAT YOU COULD HELP ME -- I DID
HAVE ONE -- THEY DID SOLVE ONE PROBLEM FOR
ME. I USED TO WORRY ABOUT THE ANTLERS. I
DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THEM BECAUSE THEY
DON'T HAVE ANY MORE DEER. THEY TOLD ME ONE
BOY -- THIS IS HOW DUMB HE WAS. HE SAID,
YOU KNOW, I KILLED THREE DEER THE FIRST

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TIME I WAS OUT THERE AND I WENT THE LAST

TIME, DIDN'T EVEN SEE A DEER, NONE OF US.
THEY KILLED THEM ALL. THERE'S NOTHING
LEFT. THEY'VE WIPED ME OUT IN FOUR TO FIVE
YEARS. I'M NOT ASKING YOU; I'M BEGGING
YOU. THANK YOU.
MR. MOULTRIE: THE NEXT SPEAKER
WILL BE TOM JAWOROWSKI FROM WETUMPKA,
ALABAMA.
MR. JAWOROWSKI: I'M TOM
JAWOROWSKI, AND I'M FROM ELMORE COUNTY. I
HAVE A DISCLAIMER, FIRST OF ALL. RON
JAWOROWSKI IS NOT MY BROTHER FROM THE
PHILADELPHIA EAGLES, BUT CHRIS JAWOROWSKI,
WHO IS THE BIOLOGIST IN LOWNDES COUNTY
IS -- HE IS MY SON. SO I JUST WANT TO SAY
THAT. I REPRESENT THE OLD GOLD MINE
HUNTING CLUB, WHICH IS LOCATED DIRECTLY
BELOW MARTIN DAM. WE HAVE 400 ACRES THERE.
NOW, WE HAVE A PROBLEM WITH TRESPASSING.
FOUR-LEGGED TRESPASSING AND TWO-LEGGED
TRESPASSING. I'VE TALKED TO MR. ANDRESS;
I'VE TALKED TO OTHER PEOPLE. I HAVE HAD

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PEOPLE COME UP ON MY PROPERTY, COME THROUGH

MY GATES, DROP OFF DOGS, AND IT'S BEEN THAT
WAY THE WHOLE SEASON. OPENING DAY I WAS
SITTING IN MY STAND. I WASN'T 200 YARDS
OFF THE ROAD OFF MY MAIN GATE, SOMEBODY
PULLED UP, DROPPED OFF DOGS. THE LAST DAY
OF DOG SEASON, WHICH WAS ON A SATURDAY, I
HAD MORE DOGS ON MY PROPERTY THAN I HAD
DEER. NOW, THERE'S A PROBLEM HERE. I USED
TO BE A DOG HUNTER. I USED TO HUNT IN
BUTLER COUNTY WHEN THEY HAD DOG DAYS DOWN
THERE. I RESPECT THAT. BUT I DON'T WANT
THOSE DOGS ON MY PROPERTY. AND I DON'T
KNOW WHAT YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT. I WOULD
LIKE TO SEE IT BANNED IN THAT PART OF
ELMORE COUNTY. I ONLY HAVE TEN MEMBERS OF
MY CLUB. WE'RE A SMALL CLUB BUT WE PAY
GOOD MONEY FOR THAT LAND THROUGH THE POWER
COMPANY. I DON'T KNOW WHAT ELSE DO BUT BEG
YOU TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. IT'S HARD
WHEN YOU HAVE A COUNTY ROAD -- AND WE'RE ON
COUNTY ROAD 50 -- RUNNING THROUGH MY
PROPERTY. WHEN I TALK TO THE GAME WARDENS,

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THEY SAY, WELL, WE CAN PUT A MAN OUT HERE,

BUT THE DOG CAN BE DROPPED OFF 50 FEET DOWN
THE ROAD AND UNLESS WE SEE THEM, WE CAN'T
DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT. SO WHAT AM I
SUPPOSED DO ABOUT IT? I CAN'T -- YOU ONLY
HAVE TWO GAME WARDENS IN THE COUNTY. YOU
CAN'T PUT ONE AT ONE END OF THE ROAD AND
ONE AT THE OTHER END OF THE ROAD TO CATCH
SOMETHING THAT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME. IT'S
JUST PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE. BUT I'D LIKE
YOUR HELP AND CONSIDERATION IN THIS MATTER
AND SEE IF WE CAN DO SOMETHING. THIS CLUB
THAT ADJOINS MY PROPERTY, WITH THE DOGS,
THEY'RE JUST OUTLAWS. THAT'S ALL I CAN SAY
ABOUT THEM. THEY HAVE NO ETHICS. AND
THAT'S ALL I'D LIKE TO SAY. THANK YOU.
MR. MOULTRIE: THE NEXT SPEAKER
WILL BE PAUL JEFFREYS FROM LAMAR COUNTY.
MR. JEFFREYS: GOOD MORNING,
MEMBERS OF THE BOARD. I UNDERSTAND WHY
Y'ALL DON'T SMILE A LOT UP THERE BECAUSE IF
I HAD TO WORK WITH ROBIN, I'D BE SCARED TO
DEATH.

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MS. NUMMY: THAT'S RIGHT.

MR. JEFFREYS: I THINK I HEARD HER
WHIP CRACK ONE TIME. I'M FROM LAMAR
COUNTY, AND I REPRESENT A GROUP. IT'S BEEN
ABOUT FIVE YEARS AGO NOW I CAME TO THIS
BOARD ASKING FOR A BAN ON DOG DEER HUNTING
AND TWO YEARS AGO WE RECEIVED THAT BAN AND
I WOULD LIKE TO BESTOW MY UTMOST GRATITUDE
TO EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU BECAUSE IT HAS
BEEN WONDERFUL. FOR COUNTIES THAT ARE
WANTING BANS, I ENCOURAGE THEM TO CONTINUE,
BECAUSE IT IMPROVES EVERYTHING. BUT I HAVE
-- THERE IS A "HOWEVER" IN HERE. FOR THE
PEOPLE THAT CAME UP SPEAKING ABOUT -- IN
SUPPORT OF DOG DEER HUNTING FROM LAMAR AND
MARION, FRANKLIN COUNTY, NOT A ONE OF THEM
CAME UP WITH THESE NUMBERS, AND I
UNDERSTAND WHY. AND THIS IS JUST TO REPEAT
WHAT MR. HARBIN SAID. IN FRANKLIN COUNTY
-- WELL, LET ME START WITH MARION. MARION
COUNTY HAD TEN COMPLAINTS AGAINST HUNTING
CLUBS HUNTING WITH DOGS OUT OF SEASON. OF
COURSE, THE WHOLE SEASON IS OUT OF SEASON,

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BUT MARION COUNTY HAD TEN; LAMAR COUNTY HAD

21; AND FRANKLIN COUNTY HAD 69 -- 17
AGAINST ONE CLUB AND -- THE BRIAR CREEK
HUNTING CLUB AND 12 AGAINST ATWOOD HUNTING
CLUB. I'VE CONSULTED WITH A CONSERVATION
OFFICER ON HOW THIS CAN POSSIBLY BE
HAPPENING. BY THE WAY, OF ALL THE
COMPLAINTS, ONLY TWO ARRESTS WERE MADE IN
LAMAR COUNTY, WHICH WAS A GOOD JOB BY THE
GAME WARDENS. I ASKED THEM, HOW CAN YOU
HAVE 100 COMPLAINTS IN THE THREE COUNTIES
THROUGHOUT DEER SEASON AND ONLY HAVE TWO
ARRESTS? HE SAID, WELL, IT'S EASY. THE
DOG HUNTERS EVIDENTLY HAVE FOUND A LOOPHOLE
WHERE THEY CAN GO OUT THERE AND SAY, WHEN
THE GAME WARDEN APPROACHES THEM, OH, WE'RE
RABBIT HUNTING. WE'RE RABBIT HUNTING, AND
THE STOCK HUNTERS THAT ARE STANDING IN THE
WOODS THAT ARE ACTUALLY DEER HUNTING, OH,
WE'RE JUST STOCK HUNTING. OKAY, YOU CAN'T
PROSECUTE ANYTHING FOR THAT WHEN EVERYBODY
KNOWS WHAT THEY'RE DOING. SO IT SEEMS TO
ME THAT THE ONLY FALLACIES AND HALF-TRUTHS

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AND LIES ARE COMING FROM THE DOG HUNTERS.

I WOULD JUST LIKE TO ENCOURAGE THIS BOARD
TO CONSIDER SOME KIND OF REGULATION TO
CLOSE UP THIS LOOPHOLE THAT IS IN THE
SYSTEM. AND I DO NOT -- I WOULD LIKE TO
ENCOURAGE THE BOARD TO -- NOT TO ISSUE ANY
PERMITS FOR THESE THREE COUNTIES, BECAUSE
IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE THEY NEED A PERMIT
SYSTEM ANYWAY, BECAUSE DOG HUNTING IS GOING
ON ANYWAY. SO THEY HAVE NO REGARD FOR THE
LAWS THAT THIS BOARD HAS PASSED DOWN, AND
THEY'VE ALSO GOT NO RESPECT FOR THE LAW
ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS. I'D LIKE TO ADDRESS
THE YOUNG LADY ON THE TOPIC -- A YOUNG LADY
CAME UP AND TALKED ABOUT CHILDREN. SHE GOT
A LITTLE TEARED UP. TWO YEARS AGO WHEN WE
RECEIVED OUR BAN IN LAMAR COUNTY, I WAS
ABLE TO TAKE -- HE WAS 4 THEN -- MY SON
HUNTING FOR THE FIRST TIME. THIS YEAR -HE'S 5 NOW. I TOOK HIM HUNTING SEVERAL
TIMES IN WHICH I HARVESTED A DEER AND HE
TOO HAD A GLEAM IN HIS EYE THAT I HAVE -THAT HE WILL BE A HUNTER FOR THE REST OF

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HIS LIFE BECAUSE NOW HE CAN GO WITH HIS DAD

AND DOESN'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT A
CONFRONTATION WITH A DOG HUNTER. THANK
YOU.
MR. MOULTRIE: THE NEXT SPEAKER
WILL BE MR. LARRY KILPATRICK FROM SAMSON,
ALABAMA.
MR. KILPATRICK: MR. COMMISSIONER,
MR. CHAIRMAN, MEMBERS OF THE ADVISORY
BOARD, MY NAME IS LARRY KILPATRICK, AND I'M
FROM GENEVA COUNTY AND I'M HERE ON BEHALF
OF THE GENEVA COUNTY LANDOWNERS
ASSOCIATION. THE GENEVA COUNTY LANDOWNERS
ASSOCIATION WOULD LIKE TO THANK MR. COLES
AND THE ADVISORY BOARD FOR WORKING WITH US
AND THE DOG HUNTERS ASSOCIATION IN
IMPLEMENTING THE GENEVA COUNTY PERMIT
SYSTEM. OVERALL, WE FEEL THE PERMIT SYSTEM
HAS HELPED OUR COUNTY AND ALLEVIATED SOME
OF THE PROBLEMS ASSOCIATED WITH DEER DOG
HUNTING. HOWEVER, THERE CONTINUES TO BE
PROBLEMS IN PARTS OF OUR COUNTY THAT NEED
YOUR ATTENTION, AS SOME 30 COMPLAINTS WERE

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VERIFIED IN OUR COUNTY. ONE MAJOR LOOPHOLE

IS THE FACT THAT THE LANDOWNER HIMSELF DOES
NOT FOLLOW UP UNDER THE PERMITTING SYSTEM.
FOR EXAMPLE, IF A GUY OWNS 80 ACRES AND IF
HE WANTS TO JOIN A DOG HUNTING CLUB, HE CAN
-- YOU KNOW, IT MAY BE SOME FEE OR
SOMETHING, BUT HE CAN SAY OKAY, GUYS, I
GIVE MY 80 ACRES, SINCE I'M THE LANDOWNER
AND I DON'T FALL UP UNDER A 200 MINIMUM
ACRE PERMIT ACREAGE LIKE WE DO -CONTINUOUS ACREAGE LIKE WE DO IN GENEVA
COUNTY. SINCE I DON'T FALL UP UNDER THAT,
WE CAN HUNT MY 80 ACRES, AND Y'ALL CAN BE
MY GUESTS AND THAT CAN BE MY PAYMENT INTO
THE HUNTING CLUB FOR Y'ALL HUNTING MY LAND.
SO THEY TAKE THAT AND THEY CAN HUNT 80
ACRES, 40 ACRES, WHATEVER ACREAGE THAT THEY
WANT TO BECAUSE THE LANDOWNER HIMSELF DOES
NOT FOLLOW UP UNDER THIS PERMIT. AND
THAT'S JUST A LOOPHOLE THAT'S GOING TO
CAUSE PROBLEMS. IT'S GOING TO CAUSE THE
DOG HUNTERS THAT ARE TRYING TO DO THEIR
BEST AND DOING A GOOD JOB, IT'S GOING TO

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CAUSE THEM PROBLEMS AS WELL. SO WE WOULD

LIKE FOR Y'ALL TO RECONSIDER, TO LOOK FOR
THAT LOOPHOLE, AND TO BRING THE LANDOWNER
UNDER THE SAME PERMITTING SYSTEM AS ALL
OTHER DEER DOG HUNTERS AND LET THEM BE
UNDER THAT SAME -- WE ALSO FEEL LIKE 200
ACRES, WE HAVE AGREED TO LET THAT RIDE FOR
ANOTHER YEAR OR SO, TO LOOK AT THAT, BUT
PERSONALLY I FEEL LIKE IT'S ALWAYS GOING TO
BE TOO LITTLE ACREAGE. I THINK THAT THAT
NEEDS TO BE HIGHER. BUT THAT'S REALLY ALL
I'LL SAY ABOUT IT, BECAUSE WE'VE AGREED TO
LIVE WITH THAT FOR ANOTHER YEAR AND SEE HOW
THAT GOES. BUT IN YOUR GUYS' OPINION, IF
Y'ALL THINK THAT THAT'S TOO LITTLE AND
Y'ALL THINK THAT THAT'S TOO LITTLE AND
Y'ALL THINK IT NEEDS TO BE MORE, IF IT'S
GOING TO SAVE DOG HUNTING AS WE KNOW IT AND
LET THESE GUYS CONTINUE TO HUNT AND LET US
CONTINUE TO HUNT, THEN, YOU KNOW, I SAY WHY
WAIT. BUT WE ARE OKAY WITH IT. WE'RE NOT
GOING TO PUSH IT OR ANYTHING. BUT WE WOULD
LIKE THE LANDOWNERS UP UNDER THIS PERMIT

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SYSTEM JUST LIKE ANYONE ELSE. I APPRECIATE

WHAT Y'ALL HAVE DONE FOR US. MR. COLES, I
APPRECIATE YOUR TIME, AND I APPRECIATE THE
DOG HUNTERS BEING WILLING TO COME TOGETHER
WITH US AND WORK THIS OUT. AND I
APPRECIATE THEIR ATTITUDE. AND I THINK
IT'S ALL ABOUT ATTITUDE. YOU'RE ALL ABOUT
WHAT'S IN YOUR HEART AND HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT
YOUR SPORT. AND THIS GUY UP HERE AND HIS
DAUGHTER, THEY LOVE IT, THEY HAVE A PASSION
FOR IT. AND I CAN UNDERSTAND THAT PASSION,
AND I FEEL THAT PASSION, BECAUSE I HAVE
THAT SAME PASSION FOR THE WAY I LOOK AT
HUNTING DEER. SO IT'S ALL ABOUT OUR
ATTITUDE TOWARD EACH OTHER, AND IF WE CAN
DRAW SOME KIND OF COMMON GROUND. AND LET
THIS THING HAVE SOME TEETH TO IT TILL IT
DOES WHAT IT'S SUPPOSED TO DO. AND I THINK
WE'LL ALL BE BETTER OFF. BUT I APPRECIATE
YOUR TIME.
MR. MOULTRIE: THANK YOU VERY
MUCH. THE NEXT SPEAKER WILL BE MARY MEYERS
FROM ELBA, ALABAMA.

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MS. MEYERS: I'M MARY MEYERS FROM

ELBA, ALABAMA. MR. COMMISSIONER,
MR. CHAIRMAN, AND MEMBERS OF THE BOARD, I'D
LIKE TO THANK YOU FOR LETTING ME SPEAK
ABOUT A MATTER THAT'S CLOSE TO MY HEART -DEER HUNTING. I LOVE TO DEER HUNT. IT'S
BEEN ONE OF THE MOST ENJOYING, RELAXING
THINGS I HAVE EVER DONE IN MY LIFE. I LOVE
TO QUIETLY SNEAK TO MY TREE STANDS AROUND
5:30 A.M., MY FLASHLIGHT IN HAND, MY HEART
JUST A PUMPING. I LOVE WATCHING THE SUN
RISE AND THE BIRDS AND THE SQUIRRELS COME
ALIVE IN THE TREES AT DAWN. THE PEACE IT
GIVES ME IS UNDESCRIBABLE. THE EXCITEMENT
I FEEL WHEN A DEER COMES INTO VIEW ONLY A
STILL HUNTER WOULD UNDERSTAND. I'VE HUNTED
SINCE 1986 AND HAVE SHOT A FEW SIX POINT
BUCKS. WHAT A THRILL. BUT FOR THE LAST
NINE YEARS, MY PEACE AND JOY OF HUNTING
HAVE BEEN TAKEN AWAY BECAUSE OF THE DOG
HUNTERS. ALL I EXPERIENCE NOW IS THE
BARKING DOGS AROUND MY TREE STANDS RUNNING
THE DEER OFF. I'VE HARDLY HUNTED MUCH THE

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LAST FIVE YEARS BECAUSE OF THIS. AFTER

THEY RUN THE DEER OFF, I'M LUCKY TO SEE A
DEER IN THE NEXT FEW WEEKS. MY HUSBAND AND
I HAVE SPENT A LOT OF MONEY HAVING TWO
FISHING PONDS BUILT SO WE COULD TAKE OUR
GRANDDAUGHTERS FISHING. WE CAN'T TAKE THEM
FISHING OR ANYWHERE OUT NEAR OUR PONDS
DURING HUNTING SEASON BECAUSE OF THE DOGS
BARKING AND RUNNING ALL AROUND OUR PONDS.
OUR GRANDDAUGHTERS ARE TERRIFIED. ABOUT
FOUR YEARS AGO I CONFRONTED A MAN AFTER HE
HAD DROPPED HIS DOGS OFF ON MY PROPERTY. I
ASKED HIM TO PLEASE NOT DROP HIS DOGS OFF
ON MY LAND. HE INFORMED ME THAT HIS
GRANDPAPPY AND HIS PAPPY HAD DOG HUNTED
THIS LAND FOR YEARS AND HE INTENDED TO
CONTINUE HUNTING IT UNTIL THEY BURIED HIM.
HE USED A LOT OF VULGAR LANGUAGE, AND HE
WOULDN'T BACK DOWN NOT ONE BIT. AND HE
HASN'T BACKED DOWN TO THIS DAY. HE
CONTINUES TO DROP HIS DOGS OFF, EVEN AFTER
THE GAME WARDEN HAS WARNED HIM TIME AND
TIME AGAIN. THIS YEAR'S DOG SEASON ENDED

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ON JANUARY 15TH, BUT HE CONTINUED PICKING

UP HIS DOGS FOR OVER A WEEK. HE OWNS NO
LAND, BUT I GUESS HE REALLY HASN'T HAD TO
UP TO THIS POINT. MY HUSBAND AND I WERE
SHOCKED WHEN WE FOUND OUT HOW MANY
LANDOWNERS WERE SICK AND TIRED OF THE DOG
OWNERS TRESPASSING ON THEIR PROPERTY. OUR
NEIGHBORS HAD $13,000 WORTH OF PINE TREES
PLANTED ONLY TO HAVE THE HUNTING DOGS RUN
ALL OVER THEM. THEY ASKED THE SAME MAN I
HAD PLEADED WITH TO PLEASE STOP DROPPING
HIS DOGS OFF ON THEIR PROPERTY. DID THAT
STOP HIM? NO WAY. HE CONTINUES TO DROP
HIS DOGS OFF, TURN AROUND IN THEIR
DRIVEWAY, AND SIT IN FRONT OF THEIR HOME
WAITING FOR THE DOGS TO PUSH DEER TO HIM.
THE NEIGHBORS' PET DOG GOES CRAZY BARKING
ALL NIGHT LONG, LOOKING ALL NIGHT LONG AT
THE HUNTING DOGS THAT HAVEN'T BEEN PICKED
UP FROM THE PREVIOUS DAY. A STILL HUNTER
WHO USES THE ADJOINING LAND TO OURS HAS HAD
A HORRIBLE TIME THIS YEAR WITH THE DOG
HUNTING ALSO. THEY HAVE CUT HIS FENCE,

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THROWN DEAD DEER CARCASSES, FAWNS INCLUDED,

AT HIS GATE, PURPOSELY TURNED THEIR DOGS
LOOSE WHILE HE WAS STILL HUNTING. A WOMAN
TOLD US THAT THE HUNTING DOGS HAD RUN HER
HORSES INTO A FENCE AND SHE NEEDED TO CALL
A VET BECAUSE OF HER HORSE'S INJURIES. AN
ELDERLY LADY TOLD THE SAME MAN THAT MY
NEIGHBOR AND I HAD DEALT WITH TO PLEASE NOT
DRIVE THROUGH HER HAY FIELDS. HE TOLD HER
HE THAT HAD PERMISSION FROM HER HUSBAND
THIS YEAR. WELL, HER HUSBAND'S BEEN DEAD
FOR YEARS. THE MAN TOLD HER TO GET OFF HER
PROPERTY AND NOT COME BACK. SOME ELDERLY
PEOPLE WE TALKED TO ARE AFRAID TO GO TO
THEIR MAILBOXES DURING THE HUNTING SEASON.
OTHERS ARE AFRAID TO DRIVE THEIR CARS ON
BACK ROADS. THIS IS A SAD THING, THAT OUR
ELDERLY PEOPLE ARE SO AFRAID IN COFFEE
COUNTY, AFRAID IN THEIR OWN HOMES. TRASH
ON OUR DIRT ROADS ARE TERRIBLE DURING
HUNTING SEASON. MOST OF THE EXTRA TRASH IS
BEER CANS, WHICH MEANS THE DOG HUNTERS ARE
HUNTING AND DRINKING WHILE DRIVING. THIS

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COULD EXPLAIN THEIR FAST DRIVING UP AND

DOWN THE ROAD 20 TIMES A DAY. WHAT'S WRONG
WITH THIS PICTURE? A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE
SIGNED A PETITION WHO HAVE HUNTED WITH DOGS
IN THE PAST, AND THEY TOLD US THEY STOPPED
DOG HUNTING BECAUSE THEY REALIZED THAT THEY
COULDN'T ANY LONGER COME ON OTHER PEOPLE'S
PROPERTY WITHOUT INFRINGING ON THE RIGHTS
OF THE LANDOWNERS. IT'S A SHAME THAT A
SMALL GROUP OF THESE DOG HUNTERS HAVE
ABUSED THE PRIVILEGE OF HUNTING WITH DOGS
AND HAVE RUINED THE ONCE GOOD NAME OF DOG
HUNTING. THE LIST OF COMPLAINTS THAT GO ON
AND ON FROM PEOPLE WHO HAVE HAD MORE THAN
ENOUGH AND THEY JUST DON'T KNOW WHERE ELSE
TO TURN. I PLEAD WITH ANY AND ALL OF YOU
WHO CAN HELP TO PUT A STOP TO THIS
TERRORIZING OF TAX-PAYING, LAW-ABIDING
CITIZENS WHO WANT TO SEE JUSTICE SERVED.
PLEASE HELP US. I WILL BE PRESENTING A
PETITION AT THE MARCH MEETING. THANK YOU.
MR. MOULTRIE: THE NEXT SPEAKER
WILL BE TOM MORRISON FROM SKIPPERVILLE,

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ALABAMA.
MR. MORRISON: I'M TOM MORRISON
FROM SKIPPERVILLE, NORTHEAST DALE COUNTY.
I OWN LAND OVER THERE AND I'M A HUNTER
ALSO. I'VE GOT THIS THING I WORKED ON -I'VE NEVER BEEN TO ONE OF THESE MEETINGS
BEFORE, AND I'VE LEARNED A LOT HERE SINCE
I'VE BEEN HERE. I'M JUST GOING TO SPEAK
FROM MY HEART. I HEARD SOME PEOPLE HERE
THAT ARE NEIGHBORS OF MINE. THEY'RE GOOD
PEOPLE, AND THEY'VE MADE SOME INSINUATIONS
THAT ARE TRUE. WE'RE NOT GREEDY LANDOWNERS
TRYING TO GET THE MOST MONEY WE CAN OUT OF
THE LEASES WE HAVE. WE JUST WANT THE
RIGHTS TO CONTROL WHAT GOES ON ON OUR
PROPERTY. I'VE BEEN LEASING TO THE SAME
GROUP OF FRIENDS SINCE THE FIRST TIME I
EVER LEASED MY LAND. THEY'RE PAYING THE
SAME PRICE THEY DID THE FIRST YEAR THEY
EVER LEASED IT. I'M NOT RELATED TO THE
LADY WHO SPOKE ABOUT HER CHILDREN. MY
SISTER KILLED HER FIRST DEER OUT OF MY
DADDY'S TREE STUMP. I STILL HUNT. MY

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DAUGHTER IS NOW 35 YEARS OLD AND MY TWO

DAUGHTERS -- I'VE GOT TWO DAUGHTERS THAT -MS. NUMMY: SPEAK INTO THE
MICROPHONE. THANK YOU.
MR. MORRISON: I WANT TO REFER TO
THIS A LITTLE BIT TO REMIND MYSELF. BUT I
DON'T WANT TO TAKE ANYBODY'S RIGHTS AWAY
FROM ANYBODY. I'M LIKE THE OTHER GENTLEMAN
THAT WAS UP HERE. I WANT THE DOG DEER
HUNTERS TO HUNT DEER THE WAY THEY LIKE TO.
I USED TO DO THAT MYSELF MANY YEARS AGO.
BUT I WANT MY PROPERTY RIGHTS BACK. WHEN I
LET A FRIEND HUNT ON MY LAND OR I LEASE MY
LAND TO SOMEBODY, I DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO
HEAR THAT, WELL, HOW DID YOU DO TODAY, WHEN
THEY COME BY THE HOUSE. WELL, WE DIDN'T
SEE NOTHING BUT DOGS OR -- AND I KIND OF
AGREE WITH STEADMAN, I DON'T HAVE TIME TO
GET OUT THERE AND CATCH THESE DOGS. AND
I'VE GOT NO COMPLAINT WITH THE CONSERVATION
FOLKS. IF WE CAUGHT THEM, THEY COME. BUT
BY THE TIME THEY GET THERE, I'M ONE MAN ON
300 ACRES, AND I CAN'T KEEP EVERYBODY OFF

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OF IT. A BIG PART OF THE TIMES WHEN WE

HAVE PROBLEMS, I DON'T EVEN BOTHER TO CALL
BECAUSE I KNOW WHEN THEY GET THERE IN AN
HOUR, THEY'RE NOT GOING TO SEE NOTHING, AND
WHAT I TELL THEM IS NOT GOING TO DO ANY
GOOD. I COME UP HERE WANTING A BAN BECAUSE
-- IN DALE COUNTY BECAUSE I DON'T SEE
ANOTHER SOLUTION. I DON'T WANT TO SEE
FIGHTS AND FEUDS AMONGST PEOPLE THAT HAVE
GOT TO LIVE BESIDE EACH OTHER ALL OF THESE
YEARS. BUT IF THINGS KEEP BEING ABUSED THE
WAY THEY HAVE BEEN, THAT'S WHERE IT'S GOING
TO END UP. I CAN CITE SOME INSTANCES HERE.
I WANT TO READ JUST A COUPLE PASSAGES OF
SOME THINGS THAT HAVE HAPPENED. I'VE GOT A
NEIGHBOR LIVES ACROSS THE ROAD FROM ME. HE
LEASES HIS LAND OUT TO A BUNCH OF HUNTERS.
HIS HUNTERS HAVE BEEN COMPLAINING ABOUT
EVERY TIME THEY GO BACK THERE, ALL THEY SEE
IS DOGS. HE CAME OUT, THE DOG HUNTERS WERE
SITTING ON THE ROAD RIGHT BY OUR HOUSES.
THERE'S NO LAND ON EITHER SIDE OF THE ROAD
THAT THEY'VE GOT PERMISSION TO HUNT ON

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RIGHT THERE. HE DECIDED TO GO DOWN AND

TALK TO THEM. HE TOLD THEM HE WAS HAVING
PROBLEMS WITH THE DOGS RUNNING ON HIS LAND.
HE SAID HE KNEW THAT THE DOGS RUN THE WRONG
WAY SOMETIMES, AND WE CAN LIVE LIKE THAT,
BUT NOT EVERY SATURDAY AND EVERY SUNDAY.
THE FOLKS THAT LEASE MY LAND ARE WANTING TO
QUIT LEASING IT. CAN Y'ALL PLEASE TRY TO
DO A LITTLE BETTER JOB, I REALLY APPRECIATE
IT, YOU KNOW. THE RESPONSE HE GOT WAS,
WELL, TELL THOSE FOLKS THAT LEASE YOUR LAND
IF THEY DON'T LIKE IT, THEY NEED TO GO
LEASE SOME LAND WHERE THERE AIN'T ANY DOG
HUNTERS. THE SAME NEIGHBOR HAS TWO SONS
AND A SON-IN-LAW. THEY WALK INTO A LOCAL
STORE AND THEY HAVE HUNTING CLUBS AT THE
END OF THE DAY. THERE'S SOME DOG HUNTERS
STANDING AROUND AND THEY ASKED ONE OF THEM
WHAT THEY HAD SEEN THAT DAY. ONE OF THEM
REPLIED HE HADN'T SEEN ANYTHING BUT DEER
DOGS RUINING HIS HUNTING. AND THE REPLY HE
GOT FROM THE DOG HUNTER WAS -- HE HAD AN
OUT OF STATE PLATE ON HIS -- FLORIDA PLATE

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ON HIS CAR. HIS VEHICLE WAS SITTING OUT

THERE. SAID HE AND HIS VEHICLE OUGHT TO GO
BACK TO FLORIDA WITH HIS HEAD FOR A HOOD
ORNAMENT. THERE'S SOME GOOD FOLKS IN THESE
DOG CLUBS. BUT Y'ALL GOT TO POLICE UP YOUR
ACT AND GET THESE FOLKS OUT OF HERE.
THEY'RE RUINING YOUR DOG HUNTING. IT'S NOT
US LANDOWNERS, THAT ARE RUINING YOUR DOG
HUNTING, TRUST ME. WE JUST WANT TO CONTROL
WHAT HAPPENS ON OUR -- WE DON'T WANT TO BE
ABUSED. AND I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.
MR. MOULTRIE: THE NEXT SPEAKER
WILL BE GWEN THOMPSON FROM SKIPPERVILLE,
ALABAMA ALSO.
MS. THOMPSON: MR. CHAIRMAN, IF
IT'S OKAY, I'M SPEAKING FOR ALL -MR. MOULTRIE: ABSOLUTELY. WHAT
IS EACH OF YOUR NAMES? INTRODUCE
YOURSELVES.
MS. THOMPSON: FIRST OF ALL, WE'RE
NOT HUNTERS, BUT WE ARE FAMILY PROTECTORS.
MR. MOULTRIE: INTRODUCE
YOURSELVES.

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MS. THOMPSON: I'M GWEN THOMPSON

AND BESIDE ME IS FAY THOMPSON AND MARGE
MORRISON.
MR. MOULTRIE: DID Y'ALL GET THAT?
MS. NUMMY: YEAH.
MR. MOULTRIE: GOOD. GO AHEAD.
MS. THOMPSON: OUR HOMES AND
FOREIGN LAND ARE LOCATED IN THE NORTHEAST
CORNER OF DALE COUNTY, ALABAMA. WE HAVE
LIVED IN THIS AREA MOST OF OUR LIVES AND
HELPED OUR FAMILIES WITH THE FAMILY FARM.
WE REARED SIX CHILDREN AND ARE GRANDMOTHERS
OF 11 GRANDCHILDREN. TOGETHER WE REPRESENT
-- THE THREE OF US REPRESENT 102 YEARS
WORKING OFF THE FARM TO HELP THESE FAMILIES
HAVE A BETTER LIFE. BUT THE SAFETY OF OUR
FAMILIES IS BEING THREATENED. WE THREE
SHARE A GRAVE CONCERN FOR THE SAFETY OF OUR
FAMILIES AND OUR COMMUNITY. WE ARE HERE
TODAY TO BEG FOR HELP. SIX GENERATIONS OF
OUR FAMILY HAVE LIVED, WORKED, AND PLAYED
ON THIS LAND, EITHER AS LANDOWNERS OR
TENANT FARMERS. WE'RE PROUD OF THIS

00234
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HERITAGE. THE ANCESTORS OF OUR CHILDREN

AND GRANDCHILDREN FOUGHT IN THE CIVIL WAR,
WORLD WAR I, AND WORLD WAR II, AND LEFT
THIS LAND TO FIGHT THOSE WARS. BUT NOW
WE'RE IN A TIME WHERE THESE CHILDREN CANNOT
COME HOME, EVEN FOR THANKSGIVING AND
CHRISTMAS HOLIDAYS, AND FEEL SAFE FROM
PLAYING AND HUNTING ON THE LAND THEIR
ANCESTORS FOUGHT FOR. DUE TO HIGH-POWERED
FIREARMS AND DANGEROUSLY OVERZEALOUS
HUNTERS, WE FEEL IT'S A HAZARD TO GO ON ANY
TYPE OF FAMILY EXCURSION OR TO ALLOW THE
CHILDREN TO PLAY OUTSIDE. IF THE MEMBERS
OF OUR FAMILY GO HUNTING, WE AGONIZE UNTIL
THEY RETURN. WE ARE EXTREMELY CONCERNED
FOR THE WELL-BEING OF OUR FAMILY, MOST OF
WHOM GREW UP WORKING, PLAYING, AND HUNTING
ON THE FAMILY FARMS, AND FOR OUR
GRANDCHILDREN WHO LOVE TO VISIT GRANDMAMAS
AND GRANDFATHERS ON THE FARM. WE PLEAD
WITH YOU AS WIVES, MOTHERS, AND
GRANDMOTHERS TO HELP US WITH THIS MOST
DANGEROUS CIRCUMSTANCE. WE ONLY WANT OUR

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CHILDREN TO BE ABLE TO SAFELY HUNT THE LAND

THEIR ANCESTORS FOUGHT FOR. WE THANK YOU
FOR YOUR TIME, AND WE WANT YOU TO KNOW THAT
THESE STATEMENTS COME DIRECTLY FROM THE
HEART. THANK YOU.
MR. MOULTRIE: THANK Y'ALL VERY
MUCH. OUR FINAL SPEAKER WILL BE RICK
YEAGER FROM WEBB, ALABAMA.
MR. YEAGER: HI, MY NAME IS RICK
YEAGER. I'M FROM WEBB, ALABAMA IN HENRY
COUNTY. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN, GOOD TO
SEE YOU AGAIN, THE REST OF THE BOARD AND
THE REST OF THE CREW THAT HELPS US WITH OUR
HUNTING OUT THERE EVERY DAY. WE HAD A
PRETTY DECENT YEAR THIS YEAR. THE DOG
PERMIT SYSTEMS THAT GOT PLACED IN PLACE
FROM THE MAY MEETING LAST YEAR IN GULF
SHORES SEEMED TO DO A LOT OF GOOD IN SOME
OF THE AREAS. AND THERE'S ALWAYS THAT
"HOWEVER." THERE IS A FEW OUT THERE THAT
BELONG TO DOG CLUBS HAVE CAUSED A LOT OF
PROBLEMS AND NEED TO BE SHUT DOWN AND TAKEN
OUT OF THE PICTURE SO THE GOOD CLUBS CAN

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CONTINUE, BECAUSE NOBODY WANTS TO TAKE IT

TOTALLY AWAY FROM THEM AS LONG AS THEY
OPERATE RIGHT. THE PEOPLE THAT LEASE
LANDS, YOU HEAR LANDOWNERS SAYING IT'S A
LANDOWNERS' ISSUE, LANDOWNERS' ISSUE. IT'S
NOT A LANDOWNERS' ISSUE; IT'S EVERYBODY'S
ISSUE. YOUR STILL HUNTERS, YOUR RESIDENTS,
YOUR REGULAR HIKERS THAT HIKE THROUGH THE
WOODS. IF THEY LEASE LAND OR IF THEY RENT
LAND OR IF THEY OWN LAND, IF DOGS COME ON
THEIR PROPERTY WHILE THEY'RE OUT THERE AND
THEY DON'T WANT THEM THERE, THEN IT SHOULD
BE CONSIDERED A VIOLATION. THE PERMIT
SYSTEM THAT WE PRESENTLY HAD FOR THIS PAST
YEAR, I KNOW GENEVA COUNTY HAD 200 ACRES
LESS THAN HENRY COUNTY. WE HAD 400 ACRES
IN HENRY COUNTY, AND THAT WASN'T ENOUGH.
WE NEED TO LOOK AT MOVING THAT UP TO 600
ACRES MINIMAL, AND THAT PROBABLY NEEDS TO
GO UP IN OTHER COUNTIES TOO. THIS IS FROM
OUR PERSONAL EXPERIENCE. I'M ALSO
PRESIDENT OF WHITETAIL ADVENTURE HUNTING
CLUB, WHICH WE HAVE 13 FAMILIES THAT HUNT

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WITH US. AND WE SPEND OVER HALF THE SEASON

STOPPING DOGS OR CATCHING DOGS. STILL
GETTING OVER THE DOG BITES FROM GRABBING A
COUPLE OF THE DOGS. THEY'RE NOT REAL NICE
DOGS SOMETIMES. THEY'RE NOT REAL EASY TO
CATCH. I'M AN OLD BEAT-UP VIETNAM WAR VET
AND I'VE GOTTEN TO WHERE CHASING DOGS
THROUGH THE WOODS IS JUST NOT A GOOD
HEALTHY THING FOR ME TO DO. BUT WE DID
MANAGE TO CATCH QUITE A FEW OF THEM AND DID
MANAGE TO GET A FEW COMPLAINTS FILED
AGAINST THIS ONE PARTICULAR CLUB. THAT'S
NOT TO SAY THAT THE OTHER CLUBS AREN'T BAD.
THAT'S NOT TO SAY THAT THE OTHER CLUBS
AREN'T GOOD. WE'RE JUST MENTIONING THAT WE
DO NEED TO ADD MORE TEETH TO THE PERMIT
SYSTEMS THAT ARE OUT THERE, SHUT DOWN SOME
OF THESE CLUBS THAT ARE OPERATING THAT
SHOULD NOT BE OPERATING AND ADD MORE
PROTECTIONS TO THE STILL HUNTERS AND THE
LANDOWNERS THAT DON'T WANT THE DOGS ON THE
PROPERTIES. THAT'S PRETTY MUCH THE GIST OF
MINE. I WAS GOING TO SPEAK AS PRESIDENT OF

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STILL AND STALK HUNT U.S.A., BUT HENRY

COUNTY SHOWED UP, GENEVA COUNTY SHOWED UP,
SO IT'S A WEIGHT OFF MY BACK. THE ONLY
OTHER THING THAT I WOULD LIKE TO ADD IS THE
THREE POINT RULE ON ONE SIDE FOR BUCK
MANAGEMENT IN THE STATE OF ALABAMA, I'D
LIKE TO THROW IN SOMETHING THERE. THERE'S
THREE MAJOR FACTORS THERE. YOU'LL GET MORE
DOE KILLS, WHICH WE DO NEED BECAUSE WE
CAN'T HARDLY GET PEOPLE KILLING DOES.
YOU'LL HAVE A SUPER SAFETY FACTOR BECAUSE
PEOPLE WILL KNOW WHAT THEY'RE SHOOTING AT.
THEY SEE A PAIR OF BROWN PANTS OF A GAME
WARDEN WALKING THROUGH THE WOODS, AND THEY
SHOOT IT BECAUSE IT'S BROWN AND THEY THINK
IT'S A DEER, YOU'VE GOT AN ACCIDENTAL
SHOOTING OF A GAME WARDEN OR ANYBODY ELSE.
SO IT'S A SAFETY FACTOR; MORE DOE KILLS;
AND WE'RE LOOKING AT GETTING SOME MORE
MATURE BUCKS IN THIS STATE. MATURE BUCKS I
THINK WITH THE ALABAMA BOW HUNTERS
ASSOCIATION, HE CAN TELL YOU THAT THE EIGHT
YEAR -- STATE OF ARKANSAS SEEING THE MOST

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NUMBER OF POKING YOUNG BUCKS (PHONETIC) -POKING YOUNG BUCKS -- WHAT'S THE OTHER ONE?
(INAUDIBLE.) THERE YOU GO. THERE'S BEEN
RECORD NUMBERS OVER THERE. I THINK THE
MANAGEMENT AREA OF THE BARBOUR COUNTY IS
DOING AN EXCELLENT JOB. I THINK THEY'RE IF
WE GOT THE THREE POINT RULE ACROSS THE
STATE, I THINK IT WOULD MAKE IT SAFER; I
THINK WE WOULD HAVE MORE MATURE DEER TO
HUNT; I THINK WE'D HAVE MORE DOE KILLS; AND
I THINK THE FIRST DEER THAT A YOUNG PERSON
KILLED WOULD BE A NICE LITTLE BUCK. MY
10-YEAR-OLD SHOT HIS FIRST BUCK, IT WAS A
SIX POINT. FROM THAT POINT FORWARD, IT'S
BEEN EIGHT POINTS AND UP. I APPRECIATE IT.
Y'ALL ARE DOING A GREAT JOB. KEEP IT UP,
AND I HOPE TO TALK TO YOU AGAIN LATER.
MR. MOULTRIE: WE WILL RECESS.
IT'S 2:05. TAKE A FIVE-MINUTE BREAK.
WE'LL BE BACK AT 2:10 PROMPTLY.
(BRIEF RECESS.)
MR. MOULTRIE: THE NEXT ORDER OF
BUSINESS WILL BE OTHER BUSINESS. ANY OTHER

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BUSINESS THAT NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED?

MR. SELF?
MR. SELF: MR. CHAIRMAN I, ALLUDED
TO A RESOLUTION I WANT TO PUT BEFORE THE
BOARD AND READ INTO THE RECORD THAT -- FOR
CONSIDERATION AT OUR NEXT MEETING, TO BE
VOTED ON AT THE NEXT MEETING. AND I'D LIKE
TO READ IT INTO THE RECORD RIGHT NOW IF
THAT'S OKAY.
MR. MOULTRIE: OKAY. READ IT AND
THEN I'LL NEED A COPY OF IT.
MR. SELF: OKAY. (AS READ:)
"WHEREAS ALABAMA'S ARTIFICIAL REEF PROGRAM
IS THE LARGEST OF ITS KIND IN THE COUNTRY;
AND WHEREAS MANY RECREATIONAL FISHERMEN AND
CHARTER BOAT CAPTAINS SPEND MANY HOURS OF
EFFORT AND MANY DOLLARS CONSTRUCTING
ARTIFICIAL REEFS IN THE AREAS DESIGNATED
FOR ARTIFICIAL REEF DEVELOPMENT OFFSHORE
FROM ALABAMA; AND WHEREAS THESE FISHERMEN
MANAGE THOSE REEFS BY CAREFULLY HARVESTING
ONLY A FEW FISH PER TRIP FROM EACH REEF;
AND WHEREAS COMMERCIAL FISHING VESSELS

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OFTEN USE LINES RIGGED WITH 30 TO 60 HOOKS

PER LINE AND FISH REEFS INTENSELY; AND
WHEREAS THE BYCATCH MORTALITY IS MUCH
HIGHER DUE TO THE AMOUNT OF TIME NEEDED TO
HANDLE THAT MANY FISH AT ONE TIME; AND
WHEREAS THE CATCH OF RED SNAPPER AND OTHER
REEF FISH ARE ALREADY SEVERELY RESTRICTED
DUE TO OVERFISHING. THEREFORE, WE, THE
MEMBERS OF THE CONSERVATION ADVISORY BOARD
OF THE STATE OF ALABAMA DO HEREBY SUPPORT
THE DESIGNATION OF ALABAMA'S ARTIFICIAL
REEF ZONES AS SPECIAL MANAGEMENT ZONES AND
THE LIMITATION OF THREE HOOKS PER RIG
WITHIN THOSE AREAS SO DESIGNATED. DONE IN
MONTGOMERY, ALABAMA THIS 12TH DATE OF
FEBRUARY 2005."
MR. MOULTRIE: THERE'S A MOTION.
IS THERE A SECOND?
MR. HATLEY: SECOND.
MR. MOULTRIE: OKAY. ROSS, CAN I
HAVE A COPY? THE MOTION IS (AS READ:)
"WHEREAS ALABAMA'S ARTIFICIAL REEF PROGRAM
IS THE LARGEST OF ITS KIND IN THE COUNTRY

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AND WHEREAS MANY RECREATIONAL FISHERMEN AND

CHARTER BOAT CAPTAINS SPEND" -- YES?
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: IT WASN'T A
MOTION TO BE VOTED (INAUDIBLE) -MR. MOULTRIE: OH, OKAY. I
THOUGHT IT WAS -MR. SELF: BUT IT'S A MOTION TO BE
VOTED ON AT OUR NEXT MEETING. THAT'S MY
UNDERSTANDING, THAT WE CAN'T -COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: WE CAN VOTE
ON THIS NOW; THAT'S JUST FOR REGULATIONS.
THIS IS NOT A REGULATION; THIS IS JUST A
RESOLUTION.
MR. SELF: OKAY.
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: SO IF YOU
WANT TO VOTE ON IT, IT PROBABLY WOULD BE
BETTER BECAUSE THE GULF OF MEXICO -- I'VE
ALREADY SENT THEM ONE LETTER. THIS WILL BE
GOOD.
MR. SELF: LET'S VOTE ON IT.
MR. MOULTRIE: HOLD ON. LET ME GO
ON THROUGH IT. I HAVE TO READ THE MOTION.
(AS READ:) "AND WHEREAS THESE FISHERMEN

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MANAGE THESE REEFS BY CAREFULLY HARVESTING

ONLY A FEW FISH PER TRIP FROM EACH REEF;
AND WHEREAS COMMERCIAL FISHING VESSELS
OFTEN USE LINES RIGGED WITH 30 TO 60 HOOKS
PER LINE AND FISH REEFS INTENSELY; AND
WHEREAS THE BYCATCH MORTALITY IS MUCH
HIGHER DUE TO THE AMOUNT OF TIME NEEDED TO
HANDLE THAT MANY FISH AT ONE TIME; AND
WHEREAS THE CATCH OF RED SNAPPER AND OTHER
FISH ARE SEVERELY RESTRICTED DUE TO
OVERFISHING. THEREFORE, WE, THE MEMBERS OF
THE CONSERVATION ADVISORY BOARD OF THE
STATE OF ALABAMA DO HEREBY SUPPORT THE
DESIGNATION OF ALABAMA'S ARTIFICIAL REEF
ZONES AS SPECIAL MANAGEMENT ZONES AND THE
LIMITATION OF THREE HOOKS PER RIG WITH
THOSE AREAS SO DESIGNATED. DONE NOW IN
MONTGOMERY, ALABAMA 12TH DAY OF FEBRUARY."
MR. SELF, IS THERE ANY DISCUSSION? ANY
OTHER DISCUSSION YOU HAVE? ANY OF THE
BOARD HAVE ANY OTHER DISCUSSION ON IT?
(NO RESPONSE.)
MR. MOULTRIE: OKAY. ALL THOSE IN

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FAVOR? ALL OPPOSED? LET IT BE NOTED IT

PASSES 100 PERCENT VOTE. MOTION CARRIES.
ANY OTHER BUSINESS?
MR. SELF: MR. CHAIRMAN?
MR. MOULTRIE: MR. SELF, GO AHEAD.
MR. SELF: I HAVE ANOTHER
RESOLUTION I'D LIKE TO PUT FORWARD.
MR. MOULTRIE: GO AHEAD.
MR. SELF: THIS RESOLUTION DEALS
WITH HUNTING, AND ITS SOMETHING THAT I CAME
UP WITH DUE TO MY CONCERN WITH THE INCREASE
IN ANTI-HUNTING SENTIMENT. MANY OF YOU MAY
OR MAY NOT -- OR SOME OF YOU I KNOW READ
THE MOBILE PRESS REGISTER, AND HERE
RECENTLY IN THE SOUND OFF COLUMN THERE'S
BEEN QUITE A FEW ARTICLES THAT ARE OPPOSED
TO HUNTING. (AS READ:) "WHEREAS THE
TRADITION OF HUNTING PURSUANT TO THE
PRINCIPAL OF FAIR CHASE IS A TIME HONORED
TRADITION IN THE STATE OF ALABAMA; AND
WHEREAS THE TRADITION OF FAIR CHASE HAS
BECOME THE MEASURING STICK OF THE GENERAL
PUBLIC IN JUDGING THE BASIS OF FAIRNESS FOR

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MANY A HUNTING ACTIVITY; WHEREAS THE SPORT

OF HUNTING ONCE ITS CONDUCTED IN THE SPIRIT
OF FAIR CHASE ENJOYS OVERWHELMING PUBLIC
SUPPORT AND GOOD WILL; WHEREAS THE
MAINTENANCE OF WILDLIFE AS A RESOURCE IS
DEPENDENT UPON REGULATED HUNTING AS A
FUNCTION OF THE MAINTENANCE OF THE
RESOURCE; AND WHEREAS ANY HUNTING CONDUCTED
IN SUCH A WAY AS TO VIOLATE THE CONCEPT OF
FAIR CHASE IS DETRIMENTAL TO THE
MAINTENANCE OF THE RESOURCE AND GREATLY
ENDANGERS THE SUPPORT AND GOOD WILL OF THE
PUBLIC; AND WHEREAS THE PRINCIPAL OF FAIR
CHASE INCLUDES THE CONCEPT THAT THE GAME
ANIMAL HAS ADEQUATE SPACE AND ESCAPE COVER
TO THE SPECIES TO PROVIDE SUCH ANIMALS WITH
A FAIR AND REASONABLE OPPORTUNITY TO EVADE
THE HUNTER. NOW THEREFORE, PREMISES
CONSIDERED, IT IS HEREBY RESOLVED AS
FOLLOWS: IT SHALL BE UNLAWFUL FOR ANY
PERSON TO HUNT OR KILL, ATTEMPT TO HUNT OR
KILL, OR OFFER THE OPPORTUNITY TO HUNT OR
KILL NATIVE GAME ANIMALS IN THE STATE OF

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ALABAMA FOR A FEE OR RECREATION UNDER

CONDITIONS WHICH THE SUBJECT ANIMAL DOES
NOT HAVE A REASONABLE OPPORTUNITY TO EVADE
THE HUNTER, TO INCLUDE BUT NOT LIMITED TO
ANIMALS THAT ARE TIED, STAKED, HOBBLED, OR
CAGED, OR ANIMALS THAT HAVE BEEN RELEASED
FROM SUCH CONFINEMENT FOR A PERIOD OF LESS
THAN TEN DAYS. IT SHALL BE UNLAWFUL FOR
ANY PERSON TO HUNT OR KILL, ATTEMPT TO HUNT
OR KILL, OR OFFER THE OPPORTUNITY TO HUNT
OR KILL TAME GAME ANIMALS IN THE STATE OF
ALABAMA FOR A FEE OR FOR RECREATION. THE
PROMISE OR GUARANTEE OF OR CONTRACT FOR
KILLING A PARTICULAR TAME ANIMAL SHALL BE
PRIMA FACIE EVIDENCE OF A VIOLATION OF THIS
PROVISION. A TAME ANIMAL IS DEFINED AS AN
ANIMAL THAT HAS BEEN BOUGHT, SOLD,
PRODUCED, RAISED, OR HELD AS A ZOOLOGICAL
ATTRACTION OR EXHIBIT OR 2, AN ANIMAL NOT
EXHIBITING THE FIGHT CHARACTERISTICS OR
AWARENESS FOR THE SPECIES WHEN FOUND IN ITS
NATURAL STATE. NUMBER 3, IT SHALL BE
UNLAWFUL FOR ANY PERSON TO HUNT OR KILL,

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ATTEMPT TO HUNT OR KILL, OR OFFER THE

OPPORTUNITY TO HUNT OR KILL ANY ANIMAL
NONINDIGENOUS TO THE STATE OF ALABAMA FOR A
FEE OR RECREATION EXCEPT SPECIES OF THE
FAMILY CERVIDAE EXISTING IN THE STATE
IMMEDIATELY PRIOR TO THE DATE HERE OF OR
FERAL SWINE. A NONINDIGENOUS ANIMAL IS
DEFINED AS A SPECIES OF ANIMAL OTHER THAN
BIRDS THAT DOES NOT EXIST AS HISTORICALLY
AND NATURALLY IN THE WILD WITHIN THIS STATE
OR ONE THAT DOES NOT EXIST WITHIN THE STATE
AS A RESULT OF THE NATURAL EXPANSION OF
THEIR RANGE. THE TERM NONINDIGENOUS
ANIMALS ALSO INCLUDES BUT IS NOT LIMITED TO
ANY SPECIES OF LION, TIGER, OR ELEPHANT.
NOTHING PROVIDED HEREIN SHALL PROHIBIT THE
HUNTING OF PEN-RAISED BIRDS OR DULY
LICENSED COMMERCIAL BIRD HUNTING PRESERVES
BY DULY LICENSED PERSONS ENGAGED IN THE
TRAINING OF BIRD DOGS OR BY PERSONS ENGAGED
IN BIRD DOG FIELD TRIALS AS PROVIDED FOR BY
LAW OR REGULATION PROMULGATED BY THE
COMMISSIONER OF CONSERVATION AND NATURAL

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RESOURCES."
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: ROSS, THAT'S
PRETTY MUCH WHAT WAS IN OUR CANNED HUNT
BILL, I THINK, THAT CORKY ADDRESSED
EARLIER. AM I CORRECT WITH THAT?
MR. SELF: I DON'T KNOW OF ANY
RESOLUTION TO THAT EFFECT.
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: NO, THAT'S
MORE LIKE A REGULATION THAT YOU'RE READING
BECAUSE -MR. SELF: IT'S A RESOLUTION, NOT
A REGULATION.
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: WELL, I
GUESS THE POINT I'M TRYING TO ASK, ARE YOU
ASKING THIS BOARD TO PASS A RESOLUTION IN
SUPPORT OF THE LEGISLATION THAT'S GOING TO
BE INTRODUCED ON CANNED HUNTS?
MR. SELF: NO, I'M NOT ALLUDING TO
THIS OR NAMING THAT ANYTHING IN PARTICULAR,
EITHER A REGULATION OR A LAW, JUST THAT
THIS BOARD IS OPPOSED TO THESE THINGS.
MR. PORTER: THAT'S -MR. MOULTRIE: HOLD ON, MR.

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PORTER. LET THE COMMISSIONER FINISH.

COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: I DON'T WANT
TO VOTE ON THE REGULATION AT THIS MEETING;
I WANT TO DO THAT AT THE NEXT ONE.
MR. SELF: THIS IS NOT A
REGULATION.
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: YEAH, BUT
WHAT YOU -- IT IS.
MR. SELF: NO, IT'S A RESOLUTION.
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: WELL, YOU
HAVE "SHALL" AND "AGAINST THE LAW" AND
OTHER THINGS WHICH MAKES IT A REGULATION.
WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY IS, BASICALLY WHAT
YOU HAVE IN THERE IS WHAT CORKY HAS IN THE
LEGISLATION THAT WE'RE SPONSORING THAT SAYS
THOSE SAME THINGS. AND I'M NOT TRYING TO
PUT WORDS IN YOUR MOUTH, BUT I THINK A
RESOLUTION OF THIS BOARD IN FULL SUPPORT OF
THE CANNED HUNT LEGISLATION WOULD BE
HELPFUL, BUT, YOU KNOW, IF WE'RE PUTTING
THINGS IN THERE THAT MAKE IT AGAINST THE
LAW, THEN IT WOULD BECOME A REGULATION AND
WE'D HAVE TO VOTE ON IT NEXT MONTH.

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MR. PORTER: I'D LIKE TO SECOND

THE RESOLUTION JUST FOR THE RECORD SO YOU
CAN DISCUSS IT FURTHER.
MR. MOULTRIE: ROSS, LET ME SEE A
COPY OF THAT.
MR. PORTER: JUST LISTENING TO IT,
IT SOUNDS LIKE TO ME THAT BASICALLY IT'S
THE PRINCIPALS OF FAIR CHASE LAID OUT IN
THAT RESOLUTION THAT I THINK EVERYONE WOULD
BE IN AGREEMENT WITH, AND I THINK THAT'S
WHAT IT'S ADDRESSING.
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: WELL, I
AGREE WITH THAT, MR. PORTER, 100 PERCENT.
I THINK WE ARE ADDRESSING THAT. CORKY, DO
YOU KNOW WHAT'S DIFFERENT FROM ROSS'S
RESOLUTION THAT -- ROSS, HAVE YOU READ THE
CANNED HUNT LEGISLATION?
MR. SELF: NO.
MR. PUGH: WHAT I'VE HEARD HIM
READ IS THE LANGUAGE THAT'S IN THE CANNED
HUNT SPELL THAT I TALKED ABOUT EARLIER.
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: RIGHT.
AGAIN, I'M NOT TRYING TO PUT WORDS IN YOUR

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MOUTH, BUT IT WOULD PASS US PASS THAT IN

THE LEGISLATURE, I THINK, IF THIS BOARD
WOULD TAKE THAT -- YOU KNOW, THIS BOARD IS
PASSING A RESOLUTION IN SUPPORT OF FAIR
CHASE AS IN THE CANNED HUNT BILL.
MR. SELF: IS THERE ANYTHING IN
THERE THAT CONFLICTS WITH YOUR BILL?
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: I DIDN'T
HEAR ANYTHING.
MR. SELF: IT DOESN'T CONFLICT OR
COMPLIMENT -MR. ANDRESS: MR. SELF, IN READING
THAT, IT SOUNDED TO BE TRACKING VERY
CLOSELY. I JUST NOTICED -- I BELIEVE I
HEARD THERE WERE A COUPLE OF SLIGHT
VARIATIONS. BUT PUTTING THAT IN THE MOST
RECENT VERSION OF THE BILL THAT I HAVE HAD
SEEN -- THE -- WOULD YOU LIKE FOR ME TO
POINT OUT ANY PARTICULAR VARIATIONS THAT I
NOTICED? I NOTICED ONE OR TWO.
MR. SELF: OKAY.
MR. ANDRESS: HAD TO DO WITH THE
-- I THINK, COMMISSIONER, YOU REMEMBER

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THIS. I THINK THIS TRACKS VERY CLOSELY

WITH -- IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN AN OLDER DRAFT
OF THAT, THAT WE PRESENTED Y'ALL WITH BACK
AT THE LAST MEETING, I BELIEVE. I THINK
THAT'S WHERE THAT WAS, AND I THINK THAT WAS
HAVING TO DO WITH THE PEN-RAISED BIRDS.
THAT WAS THE MAIN THING THAT I HEARD THAT
DIDN'T TRACK THE LANGUAGE EXACTLY. IT HAD
TO DO WITH ALL THE PERSONS LICENSED TO HUNT
PEN-RAISED BIRDS WOULD BE EXCLUDED FROM
THAT, NOT JUST COMMERCIAL INTERESTS.
MR. PORTER: I THINK -- I WAS JUST
TALKING WITH THE CHAIRMAN, AND I THINK I
WOULD ACCEPT AS A FRIENDLY AMENDMENT IF
IT'S ACCEPTABLE TO MR. SELF THAT WHERE IT
READS "SHALL," IF YOU JUST SUBSTITUTE
"SHOULD," THAT WOULD SOLVE THE PROBLEM AND
WOULD REPRESENT A CONSENSUS OF THE BOARD,
AND I'D BE AMENABLE TO THAT.
MR. SELF: OKAY. I WOULD AS WELL,
IF THERE'S A PROBLEM WITH THAT LANGUAGE,
THAT WORD THERE.
MR. MOULTRIE: WOULD THE BOARD

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WANT THAT REREAD, OR DOES EVERYBODY -- DO

YOU WANT TO HEAR IT AGAIN?
MR. SELF: WILL YOU STRIKE OUT -WHEN YOU REREAD IT, CAN YOU JUST STRIKE OUT
"SHALL" AND ADD "SHOULD"?
MR. MOULTRIE: YEAH. WILL YOU
HAND IT TO ME AGAIN?
MR. PORTER: JUST WHEREVER "SHALL"
IS, IS A "SHOULD." I WOULD INDICATE -- YOU
DON'T HAVE TO REREAD IT.
MR. MOULTRIE: OKAY. WE'LL LET IT
BE NOTED THAT WHERE "SHALL" WAS INDICATED,
IT WILL BE STRUCK AND "SHOULD" WILL BE PUT
IN. AND THEN ALSO FOR "SHALL PROHIBIT"
WILL BE "SHOULD PROHIBIT." AND THEN WE'LL
VOTE ON THE ADOPTION OF THIS RESOLUTION.
ALL THOSE IN FAVOR? ALL OPPOSED? MOTION
CARRIES. ANY OTHER BUSINESS?
MR. SELF: MR. CHAIRMAN?
MR. MOULTRIE: YES?
MR. SELF: IF THERE'S NO OTHER
BUSINESS, I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION THAT -TO APPROVE ALL REGULATIONS ADOPTED BY THE

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DEPARTMENT OF CONSERVATION.
MR. PORTER: SECOND.
MR. MOULTRIE: THERE'S A MOTION TO
APPROVE ALL REGULATIONS ADOPTED BY THE
DEPARTMENT OF CONSERVATION. ANY
DISCUSSION?
(NO RESPONSE.)
MR. MOULTRIE: ALL THOSE IN FAVOR?
ALL OPPOSED? MOTION CARRIES.
BEING NO OTHER
BUSINESS, THE NEXT ORDER OF BUSINESS IS THE
ANNOUNCEMENT OF THE DATE AND LOCATION OF
THE NEXT ADVISORY BOARD MEETING. THE DATE
SHALL BE MARCH 12, 2005, THE LOCATION
DETERMINED AND ANNOUNCED AS AVAILABILITY
ALLOWS. SINCE THERE IS NO FURTHER
BUSINESS, THIS MEETING STANDS ADJOURNED.
WAIT A MINUTE. EXCUSE ME.
MR. PORTER: IS THERE ANY WAY TO
HAVE THE -- I'VE GOT TO BE OUT OF STATE ON
THE 12TH. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE TIMING IS.
IS THERE SOME WAY TO HAVE IT AT A DIFFERENT
TIME?

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MR. MOULTRIE: WE HAD LOOKED AT

SOME OF THE DATES, AND IT SEEMED LIKE THE
12TH FIT PRETTY WELL. WE WERE GOING TO TRY
TO -- WE HAD PROMISED PEOPLE TO MOVE IT TO
ANOTHER AREA OF THE STATE, SO WE'RE TRYING
TO MOVE IT. THAT'S THE ONLY REASON WE
DON'T HAVE A LOCATION YET. BUT THE 12TH
SEEMED TO FIT. BEING NO FURTHER BUSINESS,
THE MEETING IS ADJOURNED.
(THE PROCEEDINGS WERE CONCLUDED
AT APPROXIMATELY 2:30 P.M., ON
FEBRUARY 12, 2005.)

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* * * * * * * * * * * *
REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE
* * * * * * * * * * * *
STATE OF ALABAMA
COUNTY OF MONTGOMERY
I, NICOLE PAULK, CERTIFIED
SHORTHAND REPORTER, DO HEREBY CERTIFY THAT
THE FOREGOING IS A TRUE AND ACCURATE
TRANSCRIPT OF THE PROCEEDINGS AS TAKEN
STENOGRAPHICALLY BY ME AT THE TIME AND
PLACE AFOREMENTIONED.
THIS 8TH DAY OF MARCH, 2005.

NICOLE PAULK
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTER