Professional Documents
Culture Documents
1 of 7
http://www.procentec.com/faq/profibus/
PROCENTEC
Home
Training
Products
Elmer
Joost
Elco
Tel.: +31-174-671800
support@procentec.com
ProTrace
1/29/2015 11:33 PM
2 of 7
http://www.procentec.com/faq/profibus/
I am using a Busterminal with non-Siemens devices, but it does not work. What am I doing
wrong?
A Busterminal is a very simple repeater that consumes +90 mA power supply from the DB9
connector of the a ached device (5V from pin 5 and 6). Lots of devices cannot exceed 10 mA,
because the power supply on the DB9 is ini ally implemented to solely provide power to an external
termina on (even with cer ed devices). Please check the manual of the Busterminal. It should
contain a list of devices that can be used with this product. Of course, these are only the devices
from this manufacturer.
Will the PROFIBUS plugs with diagnos c LEDs have inuence on the busload?
The input resistance of the diagnos c plugs is approx. 1,5..2,0 MOhm (analog comparator input).
This is 100 mes higher as the RS 485 receiver input impedance (e.g. 75ALS176 has min.12-30
kOhm). In theory this should not cause any problems which have not been detected so far.
How many PROFIBUS DP repeaters can be installed in series?
There are lots of stories out there concerning this subject. The actual answer lies in the electronic
components of the repeater. These determine the actual "maximum number?. The digitaliza on
from and to the opto-couplers in the repeater will make bits smaller or wider. If you put too many
repeaters in series, the bits dieren ate too much and messages are not recognized anymore. There
are also repeaters available with no limit in serial placement.
Check the manual of the repeater! It should state the maximum amount. For example: the Siemens
repeater is 9, the ProHub is unlimited.
Click here for a YouTube video
The second step is changing the busparameters. All repeaters have a delay me. If you put a large
quan ty of repeaters in series you might have to change the Tslot busparameter to a higher value.
Why is termina on important?
Termina on prevents reec ons that can disturb the data communica on. The higher the baudrate
and the longer the cable, the more important termina on becomes. Termina on should be
ac vated/placed at both ends of every bus segment. With PROFIBUS DP the termina on is powered
to provide an idle level when nobody is sending data. With PROFIBUS PA the termina on is a
combina on of a resistor and a capacitor.
Should there be distance between PROFIBUS and power
cables?
YES, even PROFIBUS can get disturbed by interference caused
by parallel high voltage power lines. Always try to have at least
10 cm air space between the cables (depends on the level of
the voltage). Most users mix all cables in one cable tray and
that o en leads to unreliable behaviour. Cables that cross
each other will not cause problems. Crea ng distance is not
the only requirement. Correct shielding is also a must!
Can you give some basic ps for installing a PROFIBUS DP network?
Always use PROFIBUS cable and connectors.
Do not exceed 32 devices per segment (including repeaters, OLMs and couplers).
Make sure the segment length is in contrast with the baudrate.
Make sure every segment has powered termina on on both ends.
Avoid spur lines.
Avoid swapping the wires (A=green, B=red).
Mark how long the cables really are and update the drawings.
A er installa on you should test your work:
Are the addresses correctly set?
No short circuit or break in the cable?
Can you communicate with the devices?
Can I install PROFIBUS DP cable in a PA network?
Lots of users have the impression this will never cause a problem because of the high speed signal
characteris cs of DP cable (even if the impedance is not correct), but there are other factors that
could make it very unstable:
There will be too much voltage loss at the end of the cable because of the higher loop resistance
of standard DP cable (110 Ohm/km). PA cable has a loop resistance of 44 Ohm/km. When it is an Ex
coupler with only 12.xV output, there is a change the last devices "get lost" all the me".
The DP cable gets over-powered because of its "thin" 0.64 mm diameter wires. PA cable wires
have a diameter between 0.8 to 1.5 mm.
PA Coupling components cannot handle the "thin" wires of the DP cable.
When it is an Ex installa on, the DP cable is probably not blue and not suitable for the FISCO Ex
specs.
Our advice is to use only cable that complies with the PA specica ons!
What is the minimum distance between 2 devices on PROFIBUS DP?
When the transmission speed is 1,5 Mbps or higher, it is highly recommended to have at least 1 m of
cable between 2 devices. De input capacitance of both devices will be compensated by the cable in
order to preserve the common impedance. When the devices would be very close together, there is
a big chance the input capacitance causes reec ons in the data communica on (small short
circuits). The eect is much less at transmission speeds lower than 1,5 Mbps.
Does PROFIBUS DP cable always have a violet colour?
NO, because of certain applica on, protec on and isola on classes, PROFIBUS DP cable can have
another colour. Example: ground cable and shipboard cable are black, robust cable is green. The
1/29/2015 11:33 PM
3 of 7
http://www.procentec.com/faq/profibus/
PROFIBUS DP
Will the choice of addresses inuence the cycle me?
NO, the master will always cyclically communicate with the slaves, so for the cycle me it doesn?t
ma er what addresses they have. The video below explains this.
VIDEO
What is the meaning of the acronym 'GSD' le?
There are lots of interpreta ons concerning the acronym GSD, but the correct version is; 'General
Sta on Descrip on'. More on GSD les can be found here: www.probus.com/nc/technology
/glossary/glossary/detail/general-sta on-descrip on-gsd/G/
Can you explain the diagnos c message structure of DP-V0 devices?
DP-V0 slave devices require a 6 bytes long mandatory diagnos c part. It contains informa on about
the connec on/device status and during cer ca on has to be exactly behaving according the
standard.
Addi onally to the mandatory diagnos c part, devices can also provide a device specic part with a
maximum length of 244 bytes (including the 6 mandatory bytes and headers). The device specic
part can be dened by the device manufacturer (device related diagnos cs) and/or a scheme of the
standard can be implemented (iden er related and channel related diagnos cs). 99% of the device
manufacturers implement only the device related diagnos cs.
It is highly recommended to specify the diagnos c data in the GSD le and manual of the device.
Most DP masters and diagnos c tools can extract the diagnos c informa on and make it available
for the applica on so ware.
What is Tid2 in the busparameter se ngs?
This busparameter denes the delay the sender of an unacknowledged telegram shall wait un l it
may send another telegram. Tid2 is the maximum value of 2 variables:
1) MaxTSDR
2) TQUI + 2*TSET + 2 + TSYN
In most cases MaxTSDR has the highest value (Tid2 = MaxTSDR).
A typical message that uses Tid2 is the Global Control broadcast with PROFIBUS DP.
1/29/2015 11:33 PM
4 of 7
http://www.procentec.com/faq/profibus/
PROFIBUS PA
I read in the PROFIBUS PA specica ons that the max length of EACH spur is 30/60/120 m, but
with PROFIBUS DP we have dened the spur length parameter as TOTAL spur length. Can you
explain?
Because the baudrate is rela vely low with PROFIBUS PA, spur lines are allowed to be long without
disturbing the data communica on and we can assign a xed maximum length per spur / per device.
With PROFIBUS DP it is a dierent story; the high baudrate limits the spur line length. If we would x
the maximum length per device, it would only be 20 cm per spur for 32 devices and that would not
make sense. To solve this we dene it as a total sum of all spurs together so that the end-user has
more exibility, because not all devices require a spur line.
What is FDE current with PROFIBUS PA devices (Fault Disconnec on Electronics)?
Some PROFIBUS PA devices consume addi onal current when there is a problem internally or with
its I/O. FDE is this addi onal sta c/basic current consump on and has to be wri en in the manual
of the device. Some devices have no FDE current and always consume the regular current. When
the problem intensies, the device shuts itself down from the bus (no more power consump on).
Do simple PA couplers pass through all messages coming from the DP side?
NO, the P+F SK1 coupler does NOT pass the token message (SD4) through.
Can we use EDD and/or DTM on any DP-V1 class 2 master?
NO, each tool uses its own technology:
PDM: Modied EDD (based on PNO EDD, but not 100% compliant with PNO EDD)
FieldCare: FDT/DTM technology
PactWare: FDT/DTM technology
CommuWin: Executable DLL's (non standard solu on)
A PA device has at least 3 func on blocks. What are these blocks and what is their
purpose?
In the process industry it is common to use blocks to describe the characteris cs and
func ons of a measuring/manipula on point and to represent an applica on through a combina on
of these blocks. The specica on of PA devices uses this func on block model to present func onal
1/29/2015 11:33 PM
5 of 7
http://www.procentec.com/faq/profibus/
sequences.
Physical Block (PB)
Describes the necessary parameters and func ons of the device itself (e.g. so ware version, serial
number, vendor ID, factory reset command). There is only one Physical block in a PA device.
Transducer Block (TB)
Contains parameters which have eect or describe the type of sensor or actuator. Transducer
blocks may also contain parameters for calibra on and lineariza on. The processed informa on is
passed on to the Func on Block. If a device has more sensors, it has corresponding Transducer
Blocks for every sensor.
Func on Block (FB)
Contains one or more cyclically accessible inputs or outputs parameters (process values). These can
be of analog or discrete nature. Other parameters: setup scaling, alarms and unit factoriza on.
What is a Prole within PROFIBUS PA?
Modern PA devices are intelligent and can execute part of the informa on processing in automa on
systems. This was previously done by the PLCs or DCS systems. The PA prole is designed with
co-opera on of the process industry and denes all func ons and parameters for dierent classes
of instruments. It is based on interna onally accepted func on block technology. The prole
contains descrip ons for the following instrument types:
- Pressure (and dieren al)
- Level, temperature and ow
- Analog/digital inputs and outputs
- Valves and actuators
- Analyzers
The prole is divided into 2 classes (A and B):
Class A of the prole describes common parameters of simple devices. The scope is limited to the
basic func ons. This set consists of the process variables (e.g. temperature, pressure, level) added
by measured value state, the tag name and the engineering unit.
Class B is an extension to class A and will cover more complex applica on func ons for
iden ca on, commissioning, maintenance and diagnosis. The rela onship of the parameters to the
classes is visible within the parameter deni ons and in the conformance statements.
To conclude: The PA prole denes cyclical data + status, diagnos c informa on and parameters.
The PA prole assures ?interoperability? and ?device exchangeability?
What is a Prole Ident Number?
In cases where the device of manufacturer-A should be replaceable by an equivalent device of
manufacturer-B, the standard Ident Number is no longer sucient because a GSD le is associated
with this number. When the device is replaced a change in the congura on is necessary which will
lead to a DCS/PLC stop. Therefore the PNO has assigned number ranges to dedicated device types
(Prole Ident Numbers) in combina on with certain Prole GSD les. A device can support mul ple
Ident Numbers which are set by a parameteriza on tool. The end-user has to decide whether to
select the Manufacturer specic Ident Number or the Prole Ident Number. Examples:
Transmi er 0x9700 to 0x970F
Actuator 0x9710 to 0x971F
Discrete input 0x9720 to 0x972F
Discrete output 0x9730 to 0x973F
How can you measure the length of a PA segment?
This is almost impossible. Because of junc on boxes, spur lines and the input resistance of the
devices it is very hard to do. At the moment there is no tool available.
1/29/2015 11:33 PM
6 of 7
http://www.procentec.com/faq/profibus/
Others
In which standard(s) is PROFIBUS specied?
The PROFIBUS communica on is specied in IEC 61158 Type 3 and IEC 61784. IEC 61158 Type 3
includes the en re range of PROFIBUS, consis ng of the versions DP-V0, DP-V1 and DP-V2. IEC
61784 species the proper es of the Communica on Prole Family CPF 3 which is PROFIBUS.
Addi onally, the IEC published the "Corrigendum 1/2/3" and "Implementa on Guideline" related to
the above men oned documents. The Documents can be purchased from the IEC website
(www.iec.ch).
What is the cost comparison between conven onal and PROFIBUS cabling?
It is a common fact that PROFIBUS reduces cable costs a lot, but there is a more that
comes with it:
Reduc on of cable trays.
Energy savings.
Less documenta on.
Be er overview.
Reduc on of test me.
Less spare parts.
Easy to expand or change.
Shorter down mes because of quick repair.
Easy to dismantle.
This is only infrastructure and the ini al savings. But the real money making starts with the
maintenance and the opera onal costs. PROFIBUS is an excellent choice, but some training is
required to get awareness about the advantages.
What is SINEC L2-DP? Is this dierent than PROFIBUS DP?
SINEC L2-DP is PROFIBUS DP! Siemens did at one me use their own names for product designa on.
However, since this proved to be confusing (with L2 in the name), the L2 part of the designa on was
dropped in favour of just DP to avoid confusion. Another example: SINEC S1 is AS-i.
Is PROFIBUS a single or mul -protocol technology?
Within PROFIBUS there is only one communica on layer implemented which is; PROFIBUS DP.
Based on this communica on layer, several device proles are dened in the applica on layer.
These proles provide common data, diagnos cs and parameters for the end-user. Some mes
people are confused with PROFIBUS DP and PA, but the only dierence is the physical interface. In
fact, a PROFIBUS PA device is a PROFIBUS DP device with an applica on prole suited for the
process industry.
1/29/2015 11:33 PM
7 of 7
http://www.procentec.com/faq/profibus/
Can PROFIBUS meet the requirements for fast communica on speed and does it have a longer
message length compared to other buses?
PROFIBUS can run on 12 Mbps, which makes it the fastest eldbus in the world. The messages have
only 9 bytes overhead which makes it very ecient. An installa on with 30 devices can have a cycle
me of less than 1 ms. PROFIBUS is the choice for fast message delivery in the industrial
automa on environments.
What makes PROFIBUS unique in terms of Cycle me, Real-Time behavior and Diagnos cs?
PROFIBUS and PROFINET have the fastest cycle me, which can be less than 1 ms. This cycle me is
extremely stable which makes it Real-Time. For diagnos cs we have standardized formats and
maintenance tools that match perfectly with the demands that maintenance personal has.
What are the benets of PROFIBUS for the end-users compared to other systems?
First of all PROFIBUS is the only eldbus that can be used in all parts of the factory (upstream,
process and downstream). This means you can use 1 type of control system, 1 knowledge package,
1 group of spare parts and 1 design strategy.
PROFBUS also has a very large number of manufacturers oering products and services. This means
for almost every applica on there is solu on and enough backup products available. These products
also have strengths in certain applica on areas such as; mo on control or process control.
PROFIBUS has testlabs that cer fy products. PROFIBUS guarantees that every product always works
with products from other manufacturers. PROFIBUS has Competence Centers that support the
end-users with their automa on ques ons and last but not least, Cer ed Training Centers provide
training. People from the working groups are working close together to create a be er world
considering the cost aspect and the environment. They have a special band! Dierent people from
dierent companies can work together without poli cal, business and personal barriers. All faces
poin ng to the same direc on and we get the job done! The result of their hard work is that;
PROFIBUS and PROFINET can save you energy, weight, materials, spare parts, documenta on and a
lot of eort.
We are a community on which you can rely! Your investment is completely safe for now, the future,
yourself and your children.
Is there an open source implementa on of PROFIBUS available?
PROFIBUS is an open specica on. Every company is allowed to create a master/slave
implementa on. Some patents are relevant to the PROFIBUS DP specica on. The patent holders
have granted free of charge licenses to all members of any RPA. Non-members have to agree on a
license with the patent holders.
If a company wants to release a PROFIBUS implementa on (so ware or hardware) as an
open-source solu on, the rules are relevant that are agreed at the OSADL (Open Source
Development Lab, see www.osadl.org). These rules say that no implementa on can be released as
an open-source solu on if it is covered by patents. This means that neither a PROFIBUS DP slave nor
master can be registered as an open source implementa on.
Sitemap | German site | Dutch site | info@procentec.com - +31-174-671800 - Update: 9 December, 2014
Copyright 2014 PROCENTEC. All rights reserved.
1/29/2015 11:33 PM