Professional Documents
Culture Documents
Before
The Presiding Member:
Commissioners:
Counsel Assisting:
.05/02/2015 (C0063)
Ms Maria Gerace
C6313
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MS GERACE:
Good morning, Your Honour, Commissioners.
Order of business this morning, if I may just take a few
minutes. Because of logistical difficulties, the plan this
morning is that we will interpose Rabbi Pinchus Feldman and
Rabbi Yosef Feldman before continuing the evidence of
[AVB]. I have discussed this with [AVB] and his counsel
and they are content with that course. Unless there is any
opposition, Your Honour, I propose to call Rabbi Pinchus
Feldman.
THE PRESIDING MEMBER:
Thank you.
MS GERACE:
Rabbi Feldman, please. Can I distribute to
the Bar table a further statement by Rabbi Pinchus Feldman
which has not been distributed to date. It is dated
4 February.
<RABBI PINCHUS FELDMAN, affirmed:
[11.40am]
<EXAMINATION BY MS GERACE:
MS GERACE:
Q.
Rabbi, you are the Chief Rabbi of Chabad
in New South Wales?
A.
In a manner of speaking.
Q.
Perhaps we will come to clarify that. You have
prepared two statements for the Royal Commission, the first
bearing a date of 21 January 2015 and the second prepared
4 February - it is dated 2014 but prepared 4 February 2015;
is that correct?
A.
Correct.
Q.
So changing the date of the second statement to
4 February 2015 and the first statement prepared for the
Royal Commission dated 21 January 2015. Rabbi, have you
had a chance to read those statements?
A.
Yes, I have.
Q.
Before preparing to coming to court? Are there any
changes you wish to make to the contents of either of those
statements?
A.
Not really. It's only as a result of my looking at
the notes of the headmaster at the time that the sequence
of events was slightly different. But these are all in the
notes that have been tendered.
.05/02/2015 (C0063)
C6314
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Q.
A.
Q.
That deal with or record steps taken in responding to
a complaint of abuse against [AVL]?
A.
Correct.
Q.
And so this is dealt with in your first statement in
various paragraphs, but in any event where you deal with
how the complaint against [AVL] was responded to, you say
that having reviewed the notes of Bill Conway there was
some difference in what was recorded about when something
was done; is that correct?
A.
I'm sorry, which paragraph are you referring to?
Q.
I haven't taken you to a paragraph, but I will.
I just want to understand what the change is. In the
course of preparing to coming to court, you have looked at
Bill Conway's notes; is that what happened?
A.
I'm sorry, I don't understand the question.
Q.
You say there are some changes you want to make or
something arising in your statement, something about what
you said was done in response to [AVL]'s complaint, the
complaint against [AVL], and that having had a look at Bill
Conway's notes the order in which certain things happened
has changed; is that right?
A.
It is in 6.3.10 where I wrote that [AVL] returned to
the United States some time later. After reading Conway's
notes it seems that I called for a meeting with him and
Conway and then I was informed that he left. The purpose
of that meeting was to discuss with him the allegations
that were made against him and then without my knowledge he
left the country.
Q.
All right. Can I ask this: What I'm going to ask to
be brought up to you is just a copy of your statement which
has been redacted, which means that the name of the person
that you are referring to has been given a pseudonym. If
you are able to, if you could refer to that person by the
pseudonym and the pseudonym is [AVL]?
A.
I'm sorry for mentioning the name.
Q.
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22-22.
.05/02/2015 (C0063)
C6316
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Q.
And you travelled to New South Wales and became the
head of a new day school at the time at the Yeshiva Centre
at Flood Street, Bondi?
A.
Correct.
Q.
And you were encouraged to accept that role by the
Rebbe at the same time as being appointed as his emissary
for New South Wales?
A.
Correct.
Q.
As the Chabad emissary in New South Wales, do you have
authority over spiritual questions and over the appointment
of emissaries within New South Wales?
A.
The authority that I have are to appoint emissaries
that will follow the ethos of the Chabad movement.
Subsequent to that, each individual is then independent.
Q.
Is it the case that you remain then as of today's date
the emissary who has authority to appoint other emissaries
within New South Wales who will follow the ethos of the
Chabad movement?
A.
Correct.
Q.
And do I understand your evidence to be then once that
emissary is appointed by you they operate independently of
you?
A.
Correct. Other than when they would seek advice.
Q.
If they seek your advice - we will come back to that you then would exercise the other power you say which is to
answer spiritual questions for the rabbi or for the
community?
A.
Correct.
Q.
Is your evidence as of today that once you have
appointed another emissary they operate independently of
you and that you have no power to direct or control another
emissary in the way that they conduct themselves?
A.
Practically, yes.
Q.
So that as of today you say that is your control more
in the nature of the ability to personally influence or
some sort of personal or other authority in respect
afforded you to be able to -A.
Correct. It is only a moral imperative.
Q.
.05/02/2015 (C0063)
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from 1968 when you came out? When you arrived in Australia
as emissary of the Chabad-Lubavitch you were then able to
appoint emissaries for the state of New South Wales, were
you not?
A.
Correct.
Q.
At that time did you exercise control over the conduct
of other emissaries whom you appointed within your
territory?
A.
I would only be able to exercise control over people
that were in our employ. But people that were appointed as
emissaries relating to establishing their own organisations
with my blessing were subsequent totally independent.
Q.
So that has been the position since 1968 to date.
Once you appointed an emissary, if they were no longer
within the employ or the Yeshiva Centre or one of its
organisations, you could no longer exercise any control
other their conduct?
A.
Correct.
Q.
If you appointed an emissary and with your blessing
they had the permission to set up their own organisation
under the Chabad movement, from that time on that person
was autonomous in the way in which they conducted
themselves as a rabbi and your emissary?
A.
Correct.
Q.
Do you remain, though, as the head emissary for the
state of New South Wales?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Do you remain as having authority over spiritual
questions for the Chabad community in New South Wales?
A.
Again, if it would be within the people that are under
my employ, they would be bound to listen to me, like any
employer/employee situation. People that are independent
are entitled to their own opinion, other than if they seek
my advice and guidance.
Q.
So that even on the question of spiritual or
rabbinical authority, is your evidence that you have no
spiritual or rabbinical authority over an emissary who is
not employed by Yeshiva Centre or an organisation that you
are associated with?
A.
Correct.
.05/02/2015 (C0063)
C6318
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Q.
So once they are appointed and run their own
organisations they have their own spiritual and rabbinical
authority within that organisation; is that right?
A.
Correct.
Q.
Do you retain any power - sorry, have you ever had and
do you retain any power to discipline or to otherwise
sanction an emissary who you have appointed in New South
Wales?
A.
There are really no practical ramifications of that
discipline, other than moral questions and other than the
strength of my own arguments and my own ability to
influence whoever it may be.
Q.
So that within Chabad New South Wales, in that broad
umbrella movement, even though you are the head emissary or
the senior rabbi and you have the power to appoint an
emissary within your territory, you have no ability to
sanction or otherwise discipline another rabbi, even one
you have appointed?
A.
Theoretically one has a certain power. But
practically it is never exercised.
Q.
What is theoretically the power that can be exercised
by the head rabbi?
A.
If you have an individual whose behaviour is totally
anathema to Orthodox Judaism, then theoretically one has
the right to delist that particular person. But there are
checks and balances, and this is something that is hardly
ever done.
Q.
Has it ever been done since 1968?
A.
Practically, to the best of my recollection, I would
recall, although I cannot recall any details at the moment,
I did suggest to people that they could theoretically be
delisted if they will continue with a certain approach,
whatever it may be that I thought was wrong. But, as
I say, practically I have never delisted a person.
Q.
So you can recall referring to the ability to do so
where you believe someone was acting inappropriately, but
in terms of following through you don't recall, the best
you can, and I understand that qualification, since 1968
you have never taken the step to delist an emissary who has
been appointed within New South Wales?
A.
Talking about this particular topic, there have been
over the years the central organisation in New York that
.05/02/2015 (C0063)
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C6320
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C6321
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Q.
Thank you. We will make some enquiries. You believe
that if we look at this document, the document that sets
out good governance for your emissaries appointed, we may
see in there the criteria or characteristics or behaviours
that one might expect of emissaries appointed within New
South Wales?
A.
In general terms.
Q.
Does that document also outline the process of
delisting or submitting to arbitration, or is that a
separate document?
A.
That's part of the same document.
Q.
Beyond that, in the event that you were to ever take
the steps, or any rabbi, but I'm asking you just about
Sydney; if you were to take the steps to delist, the checks
and balances that you referred to are the formal process
that might be undertaken after you initiate such an action?
A.
Correct.
Q.
And that includes the emissary seeking injunctive
relief whilst perhaps they elevate their dispute to Chabad
New York?
A.
Correct.
Q.
Can I ask you about the relationship, please, between
Chabad New York and Chabad New South Wales. Chabad New
York or Chabad headquarters or Chabad Lubavich New York is
often referred to as the headquarters of the Chabad
movement worldwide; is that correct?
A.
That is correct.
Q.
Is it referred to as Chabad New York or is there a
particular term? Do you refer to it as Chabad New York?
A.
The Chabad headquarters in New York.
Q.
Does the Chabad headquarters exercise any form of
control or governance of the emissaries of Chabad within
Australia?
A.
It is more or less along the same lines as I have
explained before relating to New South Wales. They appoint
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Q.
And the same process that we talked about in New South
Wales, even if you delisted someone as an emissary, that
would not stop them calling themselves rabbi?
A.
Absolutely.
Q.
Beyond that arrangement where an emissary may be
appointed by Chabad New York and delisted, does Chabad
New York exercise any control over the conduct of its
emissaries in New South Wales?
A.
No, other than in the same fashion that I would
exercise my authority by discussion, by persuasion,
et cetera.
Q.
Then can I come to a slightly different question and
if you could help us to understand this. Within Chabad New
South Wales if a person wished to raise a complaint against
the conduct of a rabbi, a member of the community, where
would that complaint be dealt with or how would that
complaint be dealt with?
A.
Could you please repeat that question and rephrase it?
Q.
Certainly. If I as a member of a congregation or
synagogue headed by a rabbi who was one of your emissaries
had a complaint about the conduct of that rabbi, what is
the process by which I might raise a complaint about the
conduct of the rabbi?
A.
If the person is a member of a congregation whose
rabbi happens to be an emissary and he would have a
complaint against that rabbi, in the first instance
normally he would go to the board of management of that
synagogue and complain. Over the years I have had people
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C6324
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Q.
And other than collegial relationships, is it your
evidence that you operate independently of one another?
A.
Totally. I think I mentioned in my evidence that this
would be like the Supreme Court of New South Wales, Supreme
Court of Victoria.
Q.
Although through time they have co-operated, have they
not, by organising activities or having students from one
organisation travel to the other to undertake various
programs or other activities?
A.
Those activities that were joint were not on the basis
of the leadership of either Sydney or Melbourne in
organising. Probably the youth groups of Sydney and the
youth group of Melbourne would make up to meet or to have a
program in Sydney or to have a program in Melbourne. But
this, as I said, was something that was ad hoc and there
was nothing really that was in an organised fashion.
Q.
Can I ask now about Yeshiva Bondi. I'm going to ask
you some questions about what happened before 2003 and then
I will ask you some questions about what has been the
situation since 2003?
A.
Right.
.05/02/2015 (C0063)
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Q.
So pre-2003, Yeshiva in Bondi, Sydney, operated
through a charitable company called the Sydney Talmudical
College Association, the STCA, and two separate entities
which operated the schools, Yeshiva College Limited and
Yeshiva Jewish Day School Limited; is that correct?
A.
Mmm-hmm.
Q.
Yeshiva College Limited ran the Yeshiva College, is
that correct, or were both entities involved in operating
the Yeshiva College?
A.
Which number paragraph?
Q.
A.
Q.
You say two entities operated the school, namely
Yeshiva College Limited and Yeshiva Jewish Day School
Limited. What were the responsibilities or what functions
did each of those two companies have in the operation of
the school?
A.
All Jewish schools in Australia, all Jewish day
schools in Australia, operate a secular school and a
religious school together. The religious entity provides
the religious studies and the legal entity, other legal
entity, provides the secular studies. These two separate
legal entities are all fused into the school.
Q.
I see. Was it necessary to have these separate
structures for funding purposes?
A.
Correct, because government funding cannot be
allocated to Jewish studies.
Q.
I see. So that in terms of the day-to-day of a
student attending the school, we have heard some evidence
that a portion of their day would be spent doing Jewish
studies and the other part of the day would be spent doing
secular studies?
A.
Correct.
Q.
So for the student they would attend the one premises
and it would be the whole day they would attend, but it
would be split into the different studies?
A.
(Witness nods).
Q.
But behind the scenes the services were provided or
allocated between the two different institutions?
A.
Correct.
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Q.
And the Jewish Day School Limited was responsible
for -A.
The religious studies.
Q.
The Jewish studies, all right. The main school entity
was the Yeshiva College and that was, was it, a school for
boys?
A.
No, Yeshiva College was boys and girls.
Q.
Were they segregated?
A.
They were segregated, yes.
school and a girls school.
Q.
From the time of 1968 until the change that occurred
at the end of 2003, you were the emissary for New South
Wales and the spiritual head of the Yeshiva College?
A.
Dean and spiritual leader. I was in fact the
principal of the school, as dean.
Q.
So you were the dean and therefore the principal and
spiritual leader of the Yeshiva College until the end of
2003?
A.
Correct.
Q.
At the end of 2003, as you say in your statement,
various changes were put into place and you ceased to have
a role with Yeshiva College Limited from about the end of
2003 onwards?
A.
Correct.
Q.
The main campus of the Yeshiva College at Dover
Heights came to be managed by a different group. The
Yeshiva College changed its name to the Kesser Torah
college in about 2004. You ceased to have any role in
either the management of those corporate entities or the
school formerly known as Yeshiva College as at the end of
2003 or early 2004?
A.
Mmm-hmm.
Q.
Is that correct? All right. Can you explain, please,
paragraph 4.4 of your statement and tell us a little bit
more about the home schooling arrangements that commenced
in or about 2004. What were those arrangements?
A.
There were a group of parents who were not satisfied
with the level of religious education that was being
provided by this new entity. These parents then decided
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Q.
The centre still being operated by a company that you
had some control and influence over?
A.
Correct.
Q.
So the Yeshiva Centre then refers to premises, does
it, when you use the term "the Yeshiva Centre"?
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
Q.
That took place in, what, a hall or some other
facility that existed on the Yeshiva Centre, these
religious studies?
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
Q.
The parents provided the religious education or did
rabbis and rabbinical students provide the education?
A.
The Yeshiva Centre facilitated the religious
education.
Q.
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Yes?
It was STCA.
Q.
Yes. Thank you. And you have continued since 2003 to
have a role in the management of the STCA?
A.
Correct, although at the present moment I am not a
director of it.
Q.
But coming back to the Yeshiva Centre and the
religious studies, they were provided - facilitated by the
Yeshiva Centre and that involved the provision of staff,
including both rabbis and rabbinical students?
A.
And provision of premises.
Q.
In 2007 when a sufficient number of persons interested
in formalising those arrangements had been reached, an
application was made for registration with the Board of
Studies and in 2008 registration was completed and a new
legal entity was set up, that being the Yeshiva College
Bondi Limited?
A.
Correct.
Q.
To this day does Yeshiva College Bondi Limited provide
religious education to Chabad adherents who are otherwise
home schooled?
A.
Well, at the moment there are no - to the best of my
knowledge there are no home schooled children in the Chabad
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community.
Q.
Is the position then that Yeshiva College Bondi
Limited now runs a form of school that provides both
secular and religious studies?
A.
Correct.
Q.
Before I move on to deal with other issues, the
Yeshiva Gedola, is that run from premises at 36 Flood
Street as well?
A.
Correct.
Q.
A.
Q.
And the Yeshiva Gedola, for those who aren't so
familiar with what occurs, is the training centre for
rabbis?
A.
Correct.
Q.
And it is there, if a student wishes to seek
ordination, they will come to complete their studies in
order to then prepare to be tested in order to obtain
ordination and to have the title of rabbi?
A.
Correct.
Q.
In 4.6 of your statement you say that in 2012 the
premises were purchased by a charitable foundation
controlled by Harry Triguboff. When you refer to "the
premises", is that 36 Flood Street?
A.
Correct.
Q.
And has some arrangement been reached whereby STCA and
Yeshiva College Bondi Limited continue to run both the
Yeshiva Gedola and the school on the premises at 36 Flood
Street?
A.
Yes.
Q.
And under that arrangement you make some statement
about the financial responsibility then vesting in Rabbi
Dovid Slavin. But may I ask you about the authority as to
the operation of Yeshiva College Bondi. Do you remain the
dean of the Yeshiva College?
A.
Yes.
Q.
And you remain the spiritual authority for that
college?
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A.
Correct.
Q.
And are you the spiritual authority for the Yeshiva
Gedola?
A.
Correct.
Q.
A.
Q.
Do you have any other role in relation to the Yeshiva
Gedola other than a spiritual authority for it?
A.
Assisting in the tests or having discussions with the
students.
Q.
Before I come back to some of the other matters in
your statement, I wanted to ask you some questions about
processes within the Yeshiva Gedola and the school run by
Yeshiva College Bondi. Is the school run - does the school
have a name? Is it called -A.
Yeshiva College Bondi.
Q.
Could you help me to understand this, Rabbi. Where
rabbis or rabbinical students are provided to assist the
school to undertake its religious studies, the religious
education of its students, are those rabbis and rabbinical
students subject to a Working with Children check?
A.
Absolutely.
Q.
We have heard evidence that rabbinical students are
sent on camps often to assist in youth programs and other
youth activities. Does that practice still occur?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Now is a rabbinical student who attends a camp, as
opposed to someone who teaches at the school, subject to a
Working with Children check?
A.
Yes.
Q.
So any rabbi or rabbinical student who teaches at
Yeshiva College Bondi is subject to a Working with Children
check?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Even if they come in for one day and then go away at
any stage -A.
Yes.
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Q.
A.
Q.
And similarly in relation to any camping arrangements,
any camps or other youth activities, if a rabbinical
student or a rabbi participates in those activities are
they subject to a Working with Children check?
A.
Yes.
Q.
I would like to ask you some questions about Daniel
Hayman now?
A.
Fine.
Q.
You set out in your statement various comments about
your knowledge of Daniel Hayman. Before I do that, I would
like to ask you the following questions. Do you know
Daniel Hayman's family well?
A.
Family meaning? Parents?
Q.
A.
Yes?
Acquaintances.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
Does he also have family overseas, the Hayman family?
A.
He has a brother overseas and a sister, I believe, who
has also gone overseas.
Q.
How did you come to meet Daniel Hayman?
A.
The Yeshiva Centre offered very many services. There
was the school, there was the rabbinical college, there
were the camps, there were the youth groups and over the
period of time it was a very significant hive of activity
with many, many hundreds of people coming along to engage
and participate in the different activities. Daniel Hayman
was not a student of the school, but he involved himself in
a number of the extra curricula activities of the centre.
I believe that he came to certain classes and he became an
adherent of Chabad. His family was not Chabad. His family
were an Orthodox family but who did not share this
particular ethos. As a youngster he decided - he and his
brother decided that they would like to join this
particular movement. There's nothing formal involved. It
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Q.
A.
Q.
Could we leave aside the use of the world "formal"
because I think we have come to a position, have we not,
that whoever organised these camps, one, gave permission
for him to attend; correct?
A.
(Witness nods).
Q.
A.
Q.
The camps were to provide services for children;
correct?
A.
Correct.
Q.
He attended the camps in the role of assisting those
who were running the camps?
A.
Correct.
Q.
And was around, therefore, the activities of and the
children who had attended the camps?
A.
Correct.
Q.
Am I also correct in understanding that as of today's
date records no longer exist of the camps and formal
documentation of who attended and in what role? Don't
know?
A.
I don't know.
Q.
Daniel Hayman was married.
married?
A.
No.
Q.
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A.
Mmm-hmm.
Q.
You believe you heard rumours that he had homosexual
tendencies and that he was acting on them at a time before
he was married?
A.
Correct.
Q.
Was this at a time that you had come to know of him as
a person who had attended the Yeshiva Centre and was
attending, in whatever capacity, the camps that were being
organised by the Yeshiva Centre?
A.
Excuse me?
Q.
This information that you heard, Rabbi, about him
having homosexual tendencies and that he was acting on
them, was that at a time that Daniel Hayman was attending
the Yeshiva Centre and participating as an assistant or
volunteer at the camps being run by the Yeshiva Centre?
A.
Very likely. However, somebody having homosexual
tendencies is not against the law.
Q.
No, I understand that, Rabbi, and we will come to that
in a minute. I just want to understand that you say the
sum total of the information you heard about him in this
period was that he had homosexual tendencies and that he
had acted on them. You do not recall who you heard that
from but you don't believe that any complaint reached you
about any unwanted advances?
A.
Definitely no complaint reached me. Nobody has ever
complained to me about their being a victim of Daniel
Hayman.
Q.
Did you ever speak to Daniel Hayman about his conduct
with boys at the Yeshiva Centre or Yeshiva camps?
A.
Not to the best of my recollection.
Q.
Daniel Hayman was married in 1987. He was 23 at the
time. When abouts do you say you first met Daniel Hayman
or came to know of him when he started to attend the
Yeshiva Centre?
A.
During his teenage years.
Q.
So it was between his teens and 23 when you were
hearing this information?
A.
Exactly when, I cannot say.
Q.
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Q.
What role did Rabbi Lesches have in his interaction
with you whilst he was at the Yeshiva Gedola?
A.
We were colleagues, and he discussed with me any
issues that he thought were necessary to discuss with me.
Q.
What about issues of inappropriate sexual conduct
occurring at the school?
A.
I don't recall any conversation of that nature.
Q.
You know that [AVB] spoke to Daniel Hayman and asked
him about whether anyone had spoken to him about his
conduct and asking him to stop; are you aware in preparing
for this Commission?
A.
Mmm-hmm.
Q.
A.
Q.
And do you know that [AVB] spoke to Daniel Hayman and
in that conversation Hayman told [AVB] that you in fact
spoke to him and had a conversation with him?
A.
I am not aware of that. I am aware of the fact that
Daniel Hayman says that he recalls that there was a
conversation that he had with me and he does not recall
what the conversation was about. I don't even recall the
conversation, but in regard to what the statement of Daniel
Hayman that I have seen.
Q.
Let me take you to what Daniel Hayman has said. You
know that eventually Daniel Hayman would be charged with
various offences of child sexual abuse and in that process
was interviewed by police. In his interview with police he
says - this is a document at tab 212. We might bring that
up, document NPF.053.002.0012_E_R. He's asked about an
allegation that he did do something with a young victim,
and he says at question 58, or the police say:
So he was younger than you at the time?
Daniel Hayman's evidence is:
I guess he was, I'm guessing he, yeah, I'm,
yeah he was definitely a few years younger,
exactly how many I don't know.
Then he is asked:
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LUNCHEON ADJOURNMENT
<RABBI PINCHUS FELDMAN, recalled:
THE PRESIDING MEMBER:
[2.00pm]
MS GERACE:
Rabbi, I'm going to go back to the email, but
before I do, I was asking you some questions before the
luncheon break about Rabbi Lesches. You said that he had a
role as the dean of the Yeshiva Gedola, which is the school
for rabbinical students?
A.
(Witness nods).
Q.
As I recall your evidence, you said you did not
believe he had a role in relation to the Yeshiva College
itself?
A.
Correct.
Q.
Could it be that you have recalled that incorrectly,
that he did in fact have some role to play with students
attending the Yeshiva College?
A.
I have no recollection. You may refresh my memory;
that's fine.
Q.
A.
Q.
I don't know respectively your ages, but he is of a
similar age if perhaps not a little bit older than you, is
that right, Rabbi Lesches?
A.
Slightly younger.
Q.
So at the time of the events when he was in Sydney, he
was of a similar seniority as you, although you were the
head of Chabad New South Wales?
A.
Correct.
Q.
So he was in fact a senior rabbi at the time?
A.
Correct. Now that you are speaking about this, when
I brought him out - I employed him and I brought him out
from America, and when he came out from America he was
doing some teaching in the school. That's a very long time
ago.
Q.
Yes, I understand?
A.
And not during the period of time at all that we are
speaking about, and that's why I made that comment that he
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had no contact with the school because from the time that
he became dean of the rabbinical college and even before he
had no longer any teaching requirements in the college.
Q.
When he was working at the Yeshiva Centre, though, he
was an employee of the Yeshiva Centre?
A.
Correct.
Q.
Whether that was in the teaching role or later as the
dean of the Yeshiva Gedola?
A.
Correct.
Q.
So in either role he was employed by the Yeshiva
Centre?
A.
Correct.
Q.
And in the intervening period between being a teacher
and being the dean, he was doing other activities for the
Yeshiva Centre as its employee?
A.
Correct.
Q.
And therefore you had authority over him as the
principal or head of the Yeshiva Centre and direct control
over him as an employee?
A.
Correct.
Q.
Can I go back to the email we were talking about
before. If you could scroll halfway down the email, thank
you, from Eli, addressed "Dear Gug", who you understand to
be Daniel Hayman; is that right, Rabbi?
A.
Pardon me?
Q.
A.
Q.
On your behalf, Eli, your son, emailed Gug and
requested that Daniel Hayman email the transcript of his
interview with -A.
I need to interject. It wasn't simply at my request.
Eli is the media person responsible for contact with the
media, and the media was harassing him relating to this
whole issue. So for his own purposes, which I went along
with, he contacted Gug to establish and ascertain what the
truth was.
Q.
With then your at least imprimatur, he went and
contacted Daniel Hayman and requested a copy of the
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Q.
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A.
In actual fact I had more than one conversation with
him. He was a young man around the place and I used to
speak to him from time to time, particularly in regard to
his misbehaviour in regard to other areas, and I asked him
to calm down. But in actual fact, speaking about a
recollection of a conversation relating to this topic,
I categorically deny that I ever spoke to him about this
topic.
Q.
But do you accept that that's what the email is
saying, that Daniel Hayman says that you did have a
conversation with him about this topic?
A.
No, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. He's making an educated
guess. He may have said there was a possible rumour that
he heard. It doesn't say what the rumour was, what the
context of that rumour, and if there was any truth to the
rumour that he doesn't mention, and he makes it very clear
that he did not make any confession. He made it very clear
that as Jews there's no such thing as confession to a rabbi
and confessing sins to a rabbi. He never discussed with
myself or any other rabbi such a topic. And he is quite
certain that "if your father knew of anything specific
occurring, he would have taken serious action, but it was
just a rumour, and nothing more." He is making it very
clear that he realised that, if this would have been the
topic of discussion, there would have been consequences.
Q.
A.
Q.
No,
document
might be
It's the
please.
MS GERACE:
Yes, that's the document I was after,
Your Honour. Thank you. Can we scroll down to the
beginning. You know, do you not, Rabbi, from the material
you have seen, that Daniel Hayman told police that Rabbi
Lesches did speak to him about staying away from young
boys. You do know that?
A.
Yes, it's a matter of police record.
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Q.
You accept, do you not, Rabbi, that as your employee
at the time, Rabbi Lesches should have told you?
A.
No, I don't. There were many employees of Yeshiva.
We had many departments. Each department head dealt with
the issues that they felt they were able to deal with on
their own. It was only if they felt that they needed my
advice or input that they discussed it with me.
Q.
So do you say now that as the head of the school at
the time responsible for managing the school and oversight
of the activities, that if one of your staff members had
information about someone behaving inappropriately with
children, that was not something that should be reported to
you as the head of the organisation?
MR BARKER:
I object to that question. There is no such
evidence. At the very worst from my client's point of
view, none of this could result in an adverse finding. It
is all hearsay and what is now being put is why a response
was not made to an approach which has not been proved. In
my respectful submission, that ought to be the end of it.
It's also, with respect to my friend, becoming just a
little repetitious.
THE PRESIDING MEMBER:
Ms Gerace.
MS GERACE:
Your Honour, the proposition being explored
with this witness, having accepted that information came to
an employee of his, a senior rabbi and employee of
the Yeshiva Centre, the question before last was I asked
the Rabbi if Rabbi Lesches had that information, that
should have been reported to him in his role as the head
and the rabbi said no, and I'm exploring that proposition
further.
THE PRESIDING MEMBER:
Yes, that's what I understood,
rather than asking this witness to confirm whether or not
that actually happened. It's being put as a proposition:
If he had that information, would Rabbi Feldman have
expected that to be reported to him. I understood his
answer to be that he doesn't accept that he should have
been told. I'm going to let Ms Gerace explore why he says
that.
MR BARKER:
Thank you.
A.
So may I clarify?
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MS GERACE:
Yes.
A.
I believe that if Rabbi Lesches would have been made
aware of there being criminal activity, without any doubt
he would have brought up the issue. I have no doubt that
that was the case.
Q.
A.
Could I ask for, please -But I may be wrong. But this is how I see it.
Q.
Following on from that, Rabbi, do you accept if Rabbi
Lesches received information about or allegations that
could be child sexual abuse by Daniel Hayman against
children, that should have been reported by Rabbi Lesches
to you?
A.
I believe that if he would have become familiar with
criminal activity he certainly should have reported it and
it certainly should have been taken further.
Q.
Let me come back to this issue of familiarity. What
does that mean, Rabbi? What do you mean when you say "if
you become familiar with"?
A.
Aware of.
Q.
Let's explore "aware of" because I think we are
talking about the same things but I want to be clear. If a
complaint was made to Rabbi Lesches that even suggested the
possibility of child sexual abuse by Daniel Hayman, do you
accept that as your employee Rabbi Lesches should have made
you aware of the complaint?
A.
If there was a specific complaint I certainly believe
that that would have been the right thing to do.
Q.
And is that not something you would have expected your
staff to do at the time?
A.
Yes, I would.
Q.
Because knowledge by your staff is knowledge by your
institution, isn't it?
A.
Yes.
Q.
I'm going to show you some documents which we are also
going to show to the Bar table. If I could ask for
document NSW.2021.001.0221 to be brought up, please.
Rabbi, this is a police statement of a person. The name of
that person has been redacted to preserve their
confidentiality. This person was not a student at the
time. I will read you from paragraph 4:
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A.
Q.
able
copy
A.
Q.
It reads:
When I was in year 9 or 10, aged about 16
or 17, in 1985 or 1986 I was invited to
attend a Jewish festival or Shabbat in
Bondi by [someone]. [Redacted] went to
school with my brother [redacted].
I understood that we would attend the
synagogue, go out for meals, and that the
sleeping arrangements were being made by
[redacted]. We were intending to stay with
Robert Hayman, who I knew as "Gug". We
were going to stay at Gug's sister's unit
in [redacted].
At the time Gug was aged about in his early
twenties, and I understood that he was a
student at the University of Wollongong.
He had a full black beard, and was quite
hairy. Gug was about five foot six or five
foot seven; he had a slight build but was
quite toned.
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5:
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Paragraph 15:
C6356
I was asleep on
P FELDMAN (Ms Gerace)
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C6360
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Q.
A.
Q.
Do you accept also that those matters are matters
which should properly have been told to the police?
A.
Yes. May I just make a comment that Daniel Hayman in
his email wrote that if I would have been aware of the
information I would have taken strong action, and it could
very well be that the people did not tell me about these
things because they knew that I would take it very
seriously and take action.
Q.
Because you would accept, would you not, Rabbi, that
it is indeed grave that some students would complain about
being inappropriately touched by Daniel Hayman and then
some short time later the same rabbi places a young
12-year-old girl in his home?
A.
Extraordinary. However, to be fair to Rabbi Lesches,
these are questions that probably should be directed to
him. I can't speak on his behalf.
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Q.
No, but as the principal of the school and responsible
for the overall management of the institution they would be
matters, I expect, Rabbi, which would be of grave concern
to you?
A.
I agree.
Q.
Because indeed they happened under your watch, whether
you knew or not?
A.
I agree.
Q.
And the institution had a responsibility to the
students?
A.
Yes, it definitely did.
Q.
In answering a summons to produce to the Royal
Commission, searches were made to find any documents
relevant to the matters being examined here; isn't that
right?
A.
I suppose so, yes.
Q.
Do you know about the fact that the Royal Commission
issued summonses to produce documents?
A.
Yes, and I believe that we produced whatever documents
there were.
Q.
No material, no internal documents recording those
early complaints were produced by the Yeshiva Centre. Is
it fair to presume that no records, internal records, were
made of the complaints received by Rabbi Lesches?
A.
I am convinced that there were no written reports of
this matter.
Q.
Rabbi, I take it from your statement that Hayman was
generally well liked within the community by those who knew
him?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Rabbi, what can you tell me of your understanding of
grooming that might be done by a perpetrator or a
paedophile?
A.
Please be more specific.
Q.
Do you understand the concept of grooming by a
paedophile?
A.
Yes.
Q.
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for instance?
A.
I suppose those that he feels are vulnerable to his
advances.
Q.
Are you also aware that paedophiles engage in a
process of grooming those around the person who might be
vulnerable, like other teachers?
A.
Correct.
Q.
Have you yourself done any training or otherwise in
child sexual abuse matters?
A.
No formal training.
Q.
Have your teachers undergone any training in child
sexual abuse?
A.
Yes.
Q.
When did that start?
A.
Whenever the board of studies made that into a
requirement. I can't give you any dates on this.
Q.
Do you know whether rabbis who are trained at the
Yeshiva Gedola undertake any study or training in child
sexual abuse?
A.
No, they don't.
Q.
Do you think it would be helpful for rabbis to receive
some training so as to understand the nature and incidence
of child sexual abuse?
A.
I think that is a very good suggestion.
Q.
Do you think it would be helpful for rabbis to have
training so they could understand the effects or what to
look out for in terms of both behaviours of the perpetrator
and behaviours of the children who might be subject to
abuse?
A.
Absolutely.
Q.
You know that Daniel Hayman ultimately pleaded guilty
to an offence of indecent assault?
A.
Yes.
Q.
And then he was given a suspended sentence. At the
time Yeshiva Centre, did it issue any public notice
following his conviction?
A.
I'm sorry.
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Q.
All right. Let me take you to a statement. You know
that following the conviction and sentence of Hayman ORA
issued a public statement in relation to the conviction of
Daniel Hayman. I will call up document 163.
STAT.0449.001.0025. This was a media release. Just before
I take you to the media release, Rabbi -A.
I thought that you were referring to a media release
from Yeshiva.
Q.
Yes, I was. I was actually asking did you issue any
public statement at any stage following the conviction of
Daniel Hayman?
A.
I would have to ask my son whether he would recall
whether we did anything of that nature.
Q.
I will ask your son, but your answer is you don't
know?
A.
I don't recall.
Q.
All right. Thank you, Rabbi. The reason I ask is
this: eventually Daniel Hayman would plead guilty to an
assault that occurred at a Camp Gan Israel run by the
Yeshiva Centre; are you aware of that?
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
Q.
You understand also,
there were other charges,
in relation to the events
the young student who was
A.
Yes.
Q.
Do you understand that there was a legal process, a
particular principle which we will explore later, that led
eventually to that charge not being considered in the face
of the more serious charge to which he pleaded guilty?
A.
I don't know the details of that. I just saw the
press reports on that.
Q.
In any event, you understood that there were two
events, if not three, being considered by the police that
had arisen out of Hayman's connection with the Yeshiva
Centre?
A.
Correct.
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Q.
And that he was sentenced in 2014. You are also
aware, are you not, that before 2014 there had been some
concern amongst the Chabad community about the response,
proper response, that rabbis should make to charges or
allegations of child sexual abuse, weren't you?
A.
Yes, and we ourselves made some statements in that
regard.
Q.
I will take you to those statements. But in 2014,
following the charge and the sentence of Daniel Hayman, ORA
issued the following release:
Suspended sentence for Mr Daniel Hayman.
The Organisation of Rabbis of Australasia
(ORA) notes the outcome of the sentencing
of Mr Daniel Hayman, a former member of the
Sydney Jewish Community, for charges
associated with a sexual abuse of a minor.
ORA applauds the courage of victims who
have the strength to come forward to the
appropriate authorities and encourages
victims who are able to do so, as well as
those with information about
the perpetration of child sexual abuse, to
approach the police and child protection
authorities.
During this tumultuous and very difficult
time with an escalation of disclosures
about child sexual abuse it is important
for the community to be aware that it is a
criminal offence under the Judicial
Proceedings Reports Act 1958 (Vic) to
disclose the name of an individual who has
made a disclosure to the Police in relation
to being a victim of child sexual abuse.
As a community we must encourage reporting
of such crimes to police and ensure that
victims feel safe and not in any way
marginalised for taking the brave step to
disclose such personal, sensitive and
demoralising information to the police.
It goes on to say:
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yesterday?
A.
Yes.
Q.
I will get to that and I will ask you to read that,
Rabbi. So rest assured we will get to that point.
Apologies, Your Honour, there is just a document I'm trying
to find. Do you believe, Rabbi, that you did issue a
statement in about 2013 following the charge of Daniel
Hayman, or is that a matter we should ask someone else?
A.
I don't know the exact date, I'm sorry. The statement
we issued to the general media, we issued it to the Jewish
newspapers, but I don't recall the exact date of that.
Q.
Are you referring to a statement issued by your son
Rabbi Yosef Feldman following the revelation of the email
correspondence or separately to that?
A.
No, separately to that.
Q.
Thank you. If anyone representing the Rabbi has that
document, I call for that document. As far as I am aware
it's not been produced or not part of the tender bundle and
I ask for this in court.
A.
The Jewish News would have it. Maybe we could ask the
journalist to provide it.
Q.
While that's being done, Rabbi, can you tell me, in
terms of the various activities that were being undertaken
by the Yeshiva Centre, did you have insurance for the
activities of the school?
A.
Yes, we always have insurance.
Q.
Was it the same insurance that insured the youth
activities?
A.
It was all comprehensive, to the best of my knowledge.
Q.
So all activities of the school, including the
activities, youth activities and religious programs, were
covered by insurance, and that was paid for by the Yeshiva
Centre - STCA or the various incorporated entities?
A.
As we have discussed, there have been changes over the
period of time. But in general terms it is my belief that
the legal entity that took out the insurance was STCA and
that covered the school, the college, the rabbinical
college, youth activities, et cetera, et cetera.
Q.
Are you able to assist us in answering this question
and then I will come back to deal with [AVL] and then we
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Q.
Thank you.
A.
It is subjective, on the basis of the assessment of
the dean.
Q.
We heard yesterday, Rabbi, some evidence that a
complaint had been received against the rabbinical student
[AVL], and I will come back to deal with [AVL], and that
student was ultimately able to later go on and be ordained
as a rabbi notwithstanding the complaint. The evidence we
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Q.
I think enquiries are still being made, but let's go
back to your statement, please, and let's deal with, if
I can, parts of your evidence in which you came to know of
a complaint being made against a rabbinical student, [AVL].
Before we start that, you knew [AVL] before he came to
undertake his studies, did you?
A.
No, I personally did not know him, but he was
recommended by the dean of the institution that he had
attended previously.
Q.
It is only after he came to be accepted as a student
that you knew [AVL]?
A.
Correct.
Q.
Did you come to know [AVL] before becoming aware of
the complaint made against him?
A.
Definitely so.
Q.
In about 2002 or 2003, a parent made a complaint that
there had been inappropriate behaviour at a camp; is that
right? Is that right, Rabbi?
A.
Yes.
Q.
And that complaint was not made to you but to either
Rabbi Simons or Bill Conway, who was then the headmaster of
the school?
A.
Correct.
Q.
And was it the case that shortly after the complaint
being taken that someone had a conversation with you
informing you that a complaint had been made?
A.
Correct. If we want to speak about the timeline, it
would be more advantageous to look at the notes of Bill
Conway because he made notes at the time. With me it was
only a general recollection. So he notes day by day what
occurred, when the report was made, when the complaint was
made, how it was dealt with, et cetera, et cetera.
Q.
That brings me to my question to you, Rabbi, which is
in terms of the information being conveyed to you and the
meetings you had with either Bill Conway or [AVL] in fact
directly, you made no notes of those conversations?
A.
No.
Q.
Even though you would have understood at the time, in
2002 or 2003, that the complaint was serious; you
understood that, did you not, Rabbi?
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A.
It was already noted by Bill Conway. In other words,
the formal part of the reporting process was done by Bill
Conway. I was, as he points out himself, I was overall
responsible for the institution, but he was specifically
responsible for the behaviour of students and any
complaints and communicating with the relevant departments.
Q.
I understand that, that they were documented, and
I will take you to those documents. I just want to be
clear as to why you wouldn't have made records, for
instance, of actions taken by you where Bill Conway wasn't
present?
A.
There were no actions taken by me. Any actions would
have been shared with Bill Conway and Zeb Simons at the
time, who were the ones dealing with the parents and with
the department.
Q.
Aside from the dealings with the parents and the
department, you in fact at some stage, and we will come to
this, went and met with [AVL], didn't you, had a meeting
with [AVL]?
A.
Yes, [AVL] came to me for a meeting.
Q.
Yes?
A.
In my office together with my son, who is sitting
there, who was directly in charge of him and he said to us
that the complaints against him are false and he is totally
and completely innocent. So I said, "Well, that being the
case, I will be happy to set up a meeting with Bill Conway
and Zeb Simons tomorrow to discuss the issues," but at the
same time I notified him that we had already notified the
authorities and as a result of which he should be aware
that notwithstanding his protestations of innocence he can
no longer have any contact with children.
Q.
That meeting, and I will talk to you about that a
little bit further, that is precisely what I was asking you
about because that meeting between yourself, your son and
[AVL] did not involve Bill Conway. He was not present at
that meeting?
A.
Correct. This was a specific meeting relating to his
continued studies in the rabbinical college.
Q.
Following on from a complaint of child sexual abuse;
yes?
A.
Yes.
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Q.
So it was separate to the purposes for which Bill
Conway was recording complaints, which was to deal with the
fact that it involved a student in the Yeshiva school, the
Yeshiva College, so it was separate to that purpose?
A.
(Witness nods).
Q.
And my question is -A.
To discuss his further studies, to discuss whether we
will give him ordination, et cetera.
Q.
On the same day or the next day following a complaint
of child sexual abuse?
A.
Let's look at the notes. It was in close proximity to
it.
Q.
And coming back to that point, you didn't feel it
necessary to make any notes of your discussions with [AVL]
when the issue of the complaint and its consequences was
being discussed with [AVL]?
A.
You have lost me.
Q.
You meet with [AVL] to discuss issues relating to his
enrolment or continuing position within the Yeshiva Gedola?
A.
Correct.
Q.
It comes within a day or so - and we will look at the
timeline - of the complaints of the child sexual abuse;
yes?
A.
Correct.
Q.
You are meeting with him to discuss the consequences
of the complaint of child sexual abuse against him and
whether he could continue in his studies in the rabbinical
college; correct?
A.
Totally separate to any action relating to the school
and being told that he can no longer be involved in the
school.
Q.
And as a consequence of that meeting he tells you
something about what his position is in relation to the
offences complained of?
A.
Yes, he says that he's completely innocent.
Q.
We will come to the rest of the conversation. He says
other things in that conversation about what he proposes to
do, and you make no notes of that?
A.
No notes. That's not the way I used to conduct
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myself. I did not - the way - I did not keep a diary. The
only diary that I ever kept was of meetings, not of the
content of meetings.
Q.
If I can call up document tab 5, NPF.053.002.0507_E_R.
These are the notes made by Bill Conway and produced to the
Royal Commission. Rabbi, if I could ask you some
questions, please?
A.
Yes.
Q.
As far as your recollection, and then if you can't we
will go back to the notes. The process was that Bill
Conway or someone else contacted you to say that they had
received a complaint against [AVL]; correct?
A.
Correct.
Q.
And the substance of that complaint was that there had
been some inappropriate contact by [AVL] with a child at
camp; is that correct?
A.
Mmm-hmm.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Is that correct?
Q.
And the substance of that complaint was that there had
been inappropriate contact by [AVL] with a child at camp?
A.
Correct.
Q.
You gave some instructions to Bill Conway to follow
certain procedures?
A.
Mmm-hmm.
Q.
A.
Is that correct?
Yes.
Q.
One of the things - if we can go to these notes - is
the following. On page 2, "Informed by mother. 23" -A.
504, yes.
Q.
That on 23 July at approximately 4.30 pm the mother of
the child reported to Bill Conway that her son had told her
of an incident that had occurred at camp the previous week.
Details of the incident were given in a meeting with ZS and
Bill Conway present. "Certain points were not clear" to
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.05/02/2015 (C0063)
C6374
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Q.
In which ZS told [AVL] that they had been informed of
an incident that required an investigation and asked that
he not return to work until further notice. What was the
"work"?
A.
His assistance as a teacher's aide.
Q.
So he was an assistant or a teacher's aide -A.
Yes, he was helping out at the school teaching
extension classes, things of this nature.
Q.
Then:
He was told there would be an investigation
of the matter that would involve him at
some point, but we were not prepared to
divulge the details of the situation at
this time. [AVL] said he thought he knew
what it might be about, but felt it wasn't
that "serious".
Attempt was made that day to inform DOCS and then on the
same day a call was placed to Mr Newcomb, who was involved
with the Independent Schools Association?
A.
Yes, Mr Newcomb was the executive director of the AIS.
Q.
A.
Q.
These notes appear to record that there was a meeting
at 2.30 pm on the following day, 25 July, at midday; do you
see that? "Confirm meeting for 2.30 pm"?
A.
Mmm-hmm.
Q.
A.
Q.
Yes.
A.
I organised that meeting. I confirmed it for 2.30,
and then subsequently I was looking for him and I was told
that he had left the country. As we see in these notes,
that I was informed by my son that he had vacated his room
and was gone.
Q.
So now
more detail
A.
"Rabbi
required by
.05/02/2015 (C0063)
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Q.
In less than 48 hours from the time of a complaint
being made against [AVL], he has left the country; yes?
A.
That seems to be obvious, yes.
Q.
And since it would appear that the first time you are
informed of the complaint is at 1.45 pm on 24 July 2002,
your meeting with [AVL] and your son, Yosef Feldman,
occurred between 1.45 pm on 24 July and 1.30 pm on 25 July
by which time -A.
Correct. It must have been in the afternoon.
Q.
So most likely on the afternoon of the complaint first
being investigated or the second meeting with [AVL] and his
parent?
A.
(Witness nods).
Q.
Now, in that conversation, by the time of that meeting
you had already talked with Bill Conway and were aware that
a process would be followed by which the authorities would
be - the appropriate authorities being DOCS -A.
Absolutely.
Q.
A.
Q.
And you would have understood as a result of your
first conversation with Bill Conway that once those
processes were under way there was a likelihood that the
child would be interviewed by police or JIRT in relation to
the complaint?
A.
Yes.
Q.
I'm curious, Rabbi, because you meet with [AVL] at a
time when you are aware these processes are about to be
undertaken and in the course of that conversation he tells
you something, doesn't he, about what he's intending to do?
A.
No. The conversation was that I notified him that the
authorities were already notified, that the process has
begun. However, we on neither telling him to stay nor to
leave, it is not up to us, we are not the police, he should
understand that if he's going to leave we will not be able
to provide him with ordination, even if the charges are
found to be false. But, other than that, we are not in a
position to hold him back. This is exactly what I said to
him at the time. We are not in a position to hold him
back, but ordination is something that we will therefore
.05/02/2015 (C0063)
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.05/02/2015 (C0063)
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Q.
You understood, didn't you, Rabbi, that if he left the
country he could neither be interviewed nor charged if the
child wished to go to the police, don't you?
A.
He can be extradited. If the charges are found to be
correct, he can be extradited. I did not believe, and I do
not believe at the moment, that within the framework of my
role it is to be able to have to call the police to say,
"This student may leave." Now, if this is something that
I should have done, then this was an error of judgment.
Q.
Do you accept it was an error of judgment on your part
not to have informed any authority that a person against
whom you had just received a complaint of child sexual
abuse and who had told you they were planning to leave the
country, you failed to act to let anyone know? You didn't
notify DOCS. You didn't notify the police. You didn't
notify the Independent Association of Schools. You didn't
tell anyone information that might have led to that course
of action being prevented?
A.
That is correct. I did not act, I did not notify the
police that he said that he may be going. As I say, if
this was an error of judgment, then I apologise.
Q.
My question to you now is this: do you think it was an
error of judgment on your part?
A.
I suppose that it was.
Q.
What would you say to any suggestion that you didn't
report so as to facilitate or to allow him to take that
course of action, to leave the country?
A.
Are you asking the same question in a different way?
Q.
A.
Q.
The question is: what do you say to any suggestion
that you might not have told anyone about the information
you received from [AVL] so that you could allow him to take
that course, leave the country in the face of the
complaint?
A.
In retrospect I did not believe - I did not know that
there was any such obligation for us to do so and to hold
him back from leaving. That was not part of any protocol
that we were told about. If there would have been such a
protocol that I was aware of, this is something I would
have done.
.05/02/2015 (C0063)
C6378
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Q.
from
fact
made
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
And the process is about to unfold whereby authorities
are to be notified of that complaint, and that same person
says to you, "Well, I might leave the country," and you
don't tell anyone?
A.
As I said, I did not know that there was such a
protocol or responsibility to do so. If I would have known
that, I certainly would have followed that protocol.
Q.
Leaving aside the protocol, was my question to you.
What about morally, because the allegation did involve the
sexual abuse of a child? What do you think morally about
the fact that you had information that the person against
whom the complaint was made is stilling you that he might
leave the country?
A.
My thought process was that if it would be established
that he actually committed a crime the police would be able
to extradite him, if it would be established that that was
the case.
Q.
It causes you no moral concern that you didn't act to
notify anyone that a potential perpetrator was about to
leave the country because, if it had been proved, he could
have been extradited some other time?
A.
The point you are making has validity.
Q.
Rabbi, let me ask you a number of questions. We have
heard a lot of information about mesirah and various other
Halachic obligations in relation to reporting, and I don't
wish to explore them in great detail since then because you
have made a statement which I think you want to read as the
official Chabad position in New South Wales, and I would
invite you now, please, Rabbi, to read that statement?
A.
I would like to start by thanking God Almighty for the
blessing of living in this great country of Australia,
which is investing a large amount of resources, including
.05/02/2015 (C0063)
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Q.
.05/02/2015 (C0063)
C6386
What is your
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preference, Rabbi?
A.
Yes.
Stay here?
Q.
I thought you might take that course. Rabbi,
following on from your apology this afternoon to those
affected by the decisions of Yeshiva Centre, may I ask the
following: should any of the victims wish to approach the
institution to receive some form of apology and redress
directly from the institution, should they feel free to
contact you?
A.
They certainly may. As a matter of fact, I believe
that in the public statement that we have made previously
we have called upon any victims to approach us.
Q.
We have heard about the pastoral work that's
undertaken by the Yeshiva Centre. Rabbi, will you make
available to victims who answer the call to come forward
such services as can be provided in the nature of pastoral
care where they have suffered child sexual abuse -A.
Absolutely.
Q.
A.
Q.
Finally, Rabbi, may I ask the following. Will you
consider providing to New York or reporting to New York on
the information that is being heard here in terms of both
the position taken by Chabad New South Wales, firstly, and,
secondly, in relation to the information that you have seen
in relation to Rabbi Lesches so that further consideration
can be given in that jurisdiction?
A.
Certainly so.
THE PRESIDING MEMBER:
Thank you.
Ms Richards.
<EXAMINATION BY MS RICHARDS:
MS RICHARDS:
Q.
Rabbi, my name is Melinda Richards.
I'm appearing for Manny Waks and Zephaniah Waks in this
Commission. Can I just draw your attention back to
paragraph 16 of the supplementary statement that you just
read?
A.
Paragraph 16.
Q.
A.
.05/02/2015 (C0063)
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Q.
The victim you refer to in that paragraph, Rabbi,
that's my client, Manny Waks, is it not?
A.
Yes, it is.
Q.
The facts are these: Manny Waks was a student at
Yeshiva Gedola in Sydney on two occasions in 1992 and 1993?
A.
I would not know the exact times, I'm sorry.
Q.
A.
Q.
That was his evidence.
would you?
A.
Not at all.
Q.
A.
Q.
His evidence or his instructions to me are that his
enrolment was arranged by his father, and the enrolment was
arranged directly with Rabbi Lesches?
A.
Yes, it was.
Q.
A.
Q.
And on two occasions Manny Waks was asked to leave
Yeshiva Gedola or told to leave Yeshiva Gedola because of
his, in his words, "irreligious behaviour and clear
disinterest in religious studies"?
A.
I'm not sure that it is appropriate at the moment to
go through - I don't recall the exact details. I am sure
that Rabbi Lesches would, but I do not recall the exact
details but it was much beyond that because we had many
discussions regarding your client. I'm not sure that this
is the place for me to cast any aspersions upon anybody.
That's not my desire.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
That was his own evidence, that he was a difficult
student and he was effectively expelled from the
institution twice?
.05/02/2015 (C0063)
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A.
Once, and we took him back again, as he has read in
his evidence.
Q.
But it wasn't the case and it would be a wrong
impression to draw from that paragraph 16 that Manny Waks
showed up on your doorstep, knocked at your door seeking
help and you took him in?
A.
I can only speak about general impressions. This goes
back 25 years or 23 years. Rabbi Lesches was the one that
he dealt with directly and all I know is what Rabbi Lesches
reported to me at the time. I am sure that if we want
chapter and verse, Rabbi Lesches would be able to give it
to us, if he would so desire.
Q.
I'm sure the Commission would like to hear from Rabbi
Lesches if he were prepared to attend. But as far as you
can tell the Commission, Manny Waks attended Yeshiva Gedola
as arranged by his father?
A.
It may have been arranged by his father, but his I really do not want to speak badly. It was extremely
irregular. To enrol him in the Yeshiva at the time brought
difficulties. He was not part of the normal group,
grouping, and we made a very special effort to look after
him. That's all I can say.
Q.
All right. At the time, as you say, you did not know
that he had been sexually abused?
A.
Correct.
Q.
But that's been a matter of public knowledge since
July 2011, has it not?
A.
Yes.
Q.
And you would accept that as a victim of sexual abuse
Manny Waks remains a man in need of help?
A.
100 per cent.
Q.
And since that time, Rabbi, you have not made any
direct contact with him to offer your support, have you?
A.
I have not.
Q.
Nor have you used your considerable persuasive
authority within the Chabad movement to make a public
statement of support for him and his family, have you?
A.
The facts are that we have not made such a statement
and I am not going to explain as to why that hasn't taken
place, but the facts are the facts. The facts are that if
.05/02/2015 (C0063)
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Q.
To whom do you refer when you say "we"?
A.
As an organisation, either myself or my son, people
that are still involved with the organisation.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Or your wife?
My wife wasn't involved with the Yeshiva Gedola.
Q.
No. You refer to your wife in your statement, do you
not?
A.
Pardon me?
Q.
You refer to your wife in your first statement, do you
not, Rabbi? If you just look briefly at that?
A.
Could you please refresh my memory?
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
So you agree that "we" meaning the institution and you
have identified yourself, two sons, rabbis involved with
the institution, and your wife Pnina Feldman has a role in
the institution as well, Yeshiva Sydney?
A.
At the moment she has no official role in the school,
no.
Q.
You agree that there's been no public expression of
support for Manny Waks and his family from any of you?
A.
Yes, and I again maintain that if we would have been
.05/02/2015 (C0063)
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No, and you would condemn those words, would you not?
Pardon?
Q.
You would condemn those words?
A.
I have no reason to make that statement and
I certainly do not want to be in a position where I would
be saying something about comments that somebody else had
made, even if that somebody else would happen to be my
wife.
Q.
Or your son?
A.
Or my son. I'm responsible for my own position, for
my own views. I try my best. I try to share my views with
others. Those that want to accept it will accept it.
Those that don't want to accept it, thank God we are living
in a free country.
Q.
But you would agree that it does not assist a victim
of child sexual abuse for someone in a position of
authority as a spiritual leader in the Chabad movement to
openly doubt the genuineness of his account?
A.
I don't believe that there is anything gained by
throwing doubt publicly on anybody, on anybody that is a
victim that suffers from whatever it may be. Our role
should be those of being healers and supporters, not
condemners.
Q.
Thank you.
.05/02/2015 (C0063)
Thank you.
Mr Strickland?
Nothing.
C6391
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Mr Barker.
No questions.
Mr Neil.
<EXAMINATION BY MR NEIL:
MR NEIL:
Q.
Thank you. My name is Ian Neil and
I appear for Rabbi Moshe Gutnick. Did you give attention
to the evidence that Rabbi Gutnick gave yesterday?
A.
To a large extent.
Q.
I wonder if I could just remind you of some passages
from his evidence and I want to ask you about those?
A.
I would have to be shown it.
Q.
No, I will read it to you.
please:
Q.
A.
Without qualification?
No qualification.
Q.
MR STRICKLAND:
if possible?
MR NEIL:
That was from paragraph 8 of Rabbi Gutnick's
statement of 3 February 2015. Listen to this statement,
please. It's from transcript page 6269, line 47, to 6270,
line 2:
I believe it is an absolute religious
obligation to report any allegation of
child sexual abuse as quickly as possible
to the appropriate authorities and to
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Yes?
Yes.
Q.
A.
Without qualification?
No qualification.
Q.
Thank you.
MS GERACE:
Nothing further?
Nothing arising.
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Yes, 22-24.
.05/02/2015 (C0063)
C6394
#
#22-22 [1] - 6316:33
#22-23 [1] - 6393:40
#22-24 [1] - 6394:6
1
1 [1] - 6343:41
1.30 [2] - 6375:34,
6376:9
1.45 [3] - 6374:32,
6376:7, 6376:9
10 [7] - 6350:2,
6350:13, 6352:2,
6383:18, 6386:26,
6386:40, 6394:11
10.00AM [1] - 6394:15
100 [4] - 6385:17,
6389:36, 6393:33,
6393:40
101 [2] - 6393:33,
6393:40
109 [2] - 6393:33,
6393:41
11 [3] - 6355:27,
6390:26, 6390:27
11.30am [1] - 6313:26
11.40am [1] - 6314:20
110 [2] - 6393:33,
6393:41
12 [3] - 6354:42,
6358:33, 6374:9
12-year-old [1] 6361:43
13 [1] - 6360:3
14 [1] - 6360:3
15 [1] - 6356:12
16 [5] - 6350:2,
6350:13, 6387:41,
6387:43, 6389:5
163 [1] - 6364:4
17 [3] - 6350:3,
6350:14, 6356:45
174 [1] - 6343:26
18 [1] - 6357:31
19 [1] - 6358:7
1958 [1] - 6365:35
1968 [7] - 6316:39,
6316:45, 6318:1,
6318:15, 6319:32,
6319:43, 6327:15
1970 [1] - 6380:39
1977 [1] - 6353:20
1985 [2] - 6350:3,
6350:14
1986 [4] - 6340:1,
6350:3, 6350:14,
6352:4
1986/1987 [1] -
.05/02/2015
6342:17
1987 [4] - 6335:37,
6339:43, 6340:4,
6352:4
1989 [3] - 6354:40,
6355:1, 6358:46
1992 [1] - 6388:6
1993 [1] - 6388:6
2
2 [3] - 6343:44,
6373:40, 6392:42
2.00pm [1] - 6344:3
2.30 [3] - 6375:30,
6375:31, 6375:38
20 [1] - 6352:33
2002 [5] - 6370:19,
6370:46, 6374:7,
6376:7, 6382:20
2003 [10] - 6325:43,
6325:45, 6327:16,
6327:23, 6327:26,
6327:29, 6327:38,
6329:24, 6370:19,
6370:46
2004 [3] - 6327:35,
6327:38, 6327:44
2007 [1] - 6329:35
2008 [1] - 6329:38
2011 [1] - 6389:31
2012 [1] - 6330:27
2013 [1] - 6367:8
2014 [6] - 6314:31,
6342:38, 6343:6,
6365:1, 6365:2,
6365:9
2015 [7] - 6313:26,
6314:30, 6314:31,
6314:36, 6314:37,
6392:40, 6394:15
20s [1] - 6355:4
21 [2] - 6314:30,
6314:37
212 [1] - 6337:34
213 [1] - 6340:7
22 [1] - 6313:14
22-22 [1] - 6316:31
22-23 [1] - 6393:38
22-24 [1] - 6394:4
23 [5] - 6335:37,
6335:43, 6373:40,
6373:43, 6389:9
234 [1] - 6340:9
24 [4] - 6374:7,
6374:32, 6376:7,
6376:9
25 [4] - 6375:30,
6376:9, 6386:14,
6389:9
6350:13, 6354:24,
6354:43
3
3 [2] - 6346:24,
6392:40
3.3 [1] - 6313:19
30 [1] - 6383:7
35 [2] - 6393:33,
6393:40
36 [5] - 6328:32,
6330:9, 6330:30,
6330:35, 6352:14
4
4 [8] - 6314:18,
6314:31, 6314:36,
6349:47, 6350:6,
6353:17, 6386:26
4.1 [1] - 6326:13
4.17PM [1] - 6394:14
4.30 [2] - 6357:39,
6373:43
4.4 [1] - 6327:42
4.6 [1] - 6330:27
45 [1] - 6380:38
47 [1] - 6392:41
48 [1] - 6376:2
5
5 [3] - 6313:26,
6353:36, 6373:5
50,000 [1] - 6383:20
504 [1] - 6373:41
58 [1] - 6337:37
6
6 [5] - 6354:5,
6358:31, 6359:32,
6359:42, 6394:15
6.2.3 [1] - 6333:29
6.3.10 [2] - 6315:29,
6316:13
6269 [1] - 6392:41
6270 [1] - 6392:41
7
7 [2] - 6351:9, 6351:16
8
8 [3] - 6351:38,
6360:20, 6392:39
A
ability [5] - 6317:42,
6319:12, 6319:18,
6319:40, 6386:2
able [22] - 6315:41,
6317:44, 6318:2,
6318:10, 6321:33,
6329:13, 6333:37,
6348:5, 6350:7,
6351:24, 6365:24,
6367:46, 6368:46,
6376:42, 6377:1,
6377:10, 6378:7,
6379:28, 6383:3,
6385:26, 6389:12,
6390:2
abomination [1] 6393:2
abouts [1] - 6335:38
absolute [1] - 6392:44
absolutely [11] 6323:15, 6323:20,
6331:27, 6343:31,
6363:37, 6376:22,
6376:25, 6377:26,
6380:24, 6387:20,
6387:23
abuse [51] - 6315:6,
6337:32, 6349:12,
6349:27, 6361:15,
6361:20, 6363:11,
6363:15, 6363:24,
6363:29, 6363:36,
6365:5, 6365:19,
6365:26, 6365:32,
6365:38, 6366:6,
6366:26, 6369:11,
6369:35, 6371:44,
6372:12, 6372:27,
6372:32, 6378:14,
6379:23, 6380:9,
6380:14, 6380:16,
6380:45, 6382:5,
6382:11, 6382:41,
6382:46, 6383:22,
6383:31, 6384:7,
6384:8, 6384:17,
6384:24, 6385:26,
6385:27, 6386:8,
6386:12, 6386:14,
6386:20, 6387:19,
6389:34, 6391:33,
6392:23, 6392:46
ABUSE [1] - 6313:9
abused [2] - 6383:32,
6389:27
9 [4] - 6350:2,
1
Transcript produced by Merrill Corporation
6333:2, 6333:10,
6333:17, 6333:18,
6333:26, 6334:33,
6342:2, 6345:18,
6348:11, 6366:27,
6367:27, 6367:29,
6367:33, 6367:36,
6367:37, 6367:44,
6374:19
activity [3] - 6332:37,
6349:3, 6349:16
actual [2] - 6347:1,
6347:5
acutely [1] - 6380:30
ad [1] - 6325:39
add [1] - 6316:15
addition [3] - 6320:15,
6369:29, 6385:38
addressed [2] 6345:29, 6381:44
adhere [1] - 6321:33
adhered [1] - 6385:47
adherent [1] - 6332:43
adherents [1] 6329:44
ADJOURNED [1] 6394:14
adjournment [1] 6386:27
ADJOURNMENT [2] 6344:1, 6386:36
adjudicates [1] 6354:11
administrator [1] 6331:7
adult [1] - 6352:38
advances [2] 6335:28, 6363:3
advantageous [1] 6370:33
adverse [1] - 6348:18
advice [5] - 6317:27,
6317:29, 6318:39,
6348:7, 6375:26
advise [1] - 6385:10
advised [4] - 6374:35,
6374:37, 6385:9
affect [1] - 6382:44
affected [2] - 6380:23,
6387:6
affirmed [1] - 6314:20
afforded [1] - 6317:44
afraid [4] - 6341:39,
6342:42, 6374:42,
6381:31
afternoon [5] 6376:11, 6376:13,
6377:34, 6383:42,
6387:5
afterwards [1] -
.05/02/2015
6381:22
age [4] - 6344:29,
6352:6, 6358:33,
6360:4
aged [3] - 6350:2,
6350:13, 6350:26
ages [1] - 6344:28
ago [10] - 6321:11,
6321:47, 6344:43,
6346:34, 6346:35,
6380:38, 6382:30,
6383:7, 6383:18,
6386:14
agree [10] - 6321:3,
6321:8, 6321:14,
6341:39, 6362:5,
6362:9, 6385:30,
6390:38, 6390:45,
6391:32
aide [2] - 6375:5,
6375:7
air [1] - 6391:3
AIS [1] - 6375:24
aligned [1] - 6381:33
allegation [7] 6337:36, 6369:11,
6369:35, 6374:38,
6379:22, 6382:38,
6392:45
allegations [7] 6315:33, 6349:11,
6365:5, 6369:8,
6377:5, 6382:11,
6382:34
alleged [4] - 6342:46,
6343:15, 6346:18,
6384:25
alleging [1] - 6382:31
allocated [3] - 6316:7,
6326:31, 6326:46
allow [2] - 6378:29,
6378:38
almighty [2] 6379:45, 6383:42
almost [1] - 6351:36
altered [1] - 6321:17
AM [1] - 6313:35
amend [1] - 6316:26
amendment [1] 6316:25
America [7] - 6339:43,
6344:41, 6352:45,
6377:15, 6377:31,
6377:41
amount [1] - 6379:47
anathema [1] 6319:27
AND [1] - 6394:7
Andrew [1] - 6313:36
angels [1] - 6384:5
6319:36, 6324:13,
6348:20, 6365:27,
6387:7, 6387:13
approached [2] 6324:1, 6390:1
appropriate [9] 6352:40, 6365:23,
6376:21, 6381:25,
6382:12, 6382:24,
6382:41, 6388:31,
6392:47
appropriateness [1] 6321:30
arbitrated [1] - 6321:8
arbitration [2] 6321:3, 6322:16
areas [2] - 6347:4,
6384:47
arguments [1] 6319:12
arise [1] - 6320:40
arisen [2] - 6364:44,
6382:10
arises [3] - 6321:9,
6377:3, 6385:10
arising [2] - 6315:24,
6393:19
arm [6] - 6320:15,
6351:21, 6351:22,
6351:24, 6351:25,
6351:26
arose [1] - 6377:23
arrange [2] - 6374:4,
6393:43
arranged [5] 6350:47, 6388:20,
6388:21, 6389:18,
6389:19
arrangement [5] 6323:22, 6330:33,
6330:39, 6333:16,
6333:22
arrangements [11] 6327:43, 6327:44,
6328:10, 6329:36,
6332:4, 6350:20,
6350:40, 6358:41,
6360:13, 6360:15,
6360:26
arrest [1] - 6381:20
arrested [4] - 6381:3,
6381:5, 6381:15,
6381:16
arrived [1] - 6318:1
articulate [1] 6384:42
articulated [4] 6324:24, 6324:47,
6342:26, 6385:46
articulates [1] -
2
Transcript produced by Merrill Corporation
6369:40
ascertain [1] 6345:43
aside [6] - 6334:16,
6358:24, 6369:4,
6371:18, 6379:1,
6379:21
asleep [3] - 6356:47,
6357:26, 6359:19
aspect [2] - 6368:28,
6377:16
aspersions [1] 6388:36
assault [4] - 6340:22,
6363:40, 6364:22,
6374:24
assaulting [2] 6339:15
assessing [1] - 6386:8
assessment [7] 6368:22, 6368:25,
6368:40, 6369:44,
6369:45, 6374:2,
6386:32
assist [9] - 6331:23,
6331:30, 6333:18,
6333:37, 6367:46,
6391:2, 6391:6,
6391:10, 6391:32
assistance [3] 6375:5, 6390:1,
6391:1
assistant [2] 6335:17, 6375:7
Assisting [1] 6313:40
assisting [4] 6331:12, 6334:29,
6374:18, 6374:20
associate [1] 6338:38
associated [3] 6318:45, 6365:19,
6380:17
Association [2] 6326:3, 6375:23
association [1] 6378:17
assume [6] - 6316:8,
6321:8, 6321:20,
6324:34, 6360:24,
6368:16
assumed [1] - 6320:5
assured [2] - 6352:39,
6367:5
AT [2] - 6394:14,
6394:15
attached [1] - 6354:34
attempt [2] - 6343:27,
6375:21
.05/02/2015
6346:4
AVB] [1] - 6314:8
AVB]'s [1] - 6337:17
AVL [37] - 6315:6,
6315:11, 6315:26,
6315:29, 6315:42,
6316:14, 6316:18,
6367:47, 6368:45,
6370:5, 6370:12,
6370:15, 6370:41,
6371:20, 6371:21,
6371:22, 6371:39,
6372:17, 6372:19,
6372:22, 6373:14,
6373:18, 6373:29,
6374:16, 6374:35,
6374:44, 6374:45,
6375:1, 6375:17,
6376:3, 6376:8,
6376:14, 6376:34,
6377:4, 6377:30,
6378:38
AVL] [1] - 6370:4
AVL]'s [1] - 6315:25
aware [27] - 6325:4,
6337:13, 6337:23,
6339:39, 6346:3,
6349:3, 6349:22,
6349:24, 6349:29,
6356:34, 6357:26,
6361:33, 6363:5,
6364:23, 6365:2,
6365:33, 6366:10,
6366:28, 6367:20,
6370:15, 6371:32,
6376:19, 6376:35,
6377:34, 6378:45,
6383:33
B
Babi [1] - 6360:22
badly [1] - 6389:20
balances [8] 6319:29, 6320:10,
6320:12, 6320:33,
6320:35, 6320:36,
6322:23, 6323:6
Bar [5] - 6314:16,
6349:42, 6353:14,
6358:27, 6386:33
bar [1] - 6393:30
BARKER [4] 6348:16, 6348:45,
6381:7, 6392:3
Barker [2] - 6381:13,
6392:1
basis [3] - 6325:34,
6361:18, 6368:40
beard [2] - 6350:29,
6355:5
bearing [1] - 6314:30
became [5] - 6317:1,
6332:42, 6345:2,
6354:15, 6380:43
become [6] - 6321:2,
6349:15, 6349:21,
6368:10, 6368:11,
6383:20
becoming [2] 6348:22, 6370:15
bed [13] - 6350:42,
6350:45, 6351:1,
6351:2, 6351:6,
6351:13, 6351:23,
6351:47, 6357:13,
6357:20, 6357:22,
6357:28, 6357:32
bedroom [2] 6350:41, 6356:24
beginning [1] 6347:42
begun [1] - 6376:40
behalf [4] - 6343:21,
6345:36, 6361:46,
6380:19
Behar [1] - 6359:7
behave [2] - 6322:1,
6384:45
behaving [1] 6348:12
behaviour [10] 6319:26, 6336:27,
6342:1, 6361:1,
6369:15, 6370:20,
6371:5, 6382:45,
6384:45, 6388:29
behavioural [1] 6368:13
behaviours [3] 6322:10, 6363:34,
6363:35
behind [1] - 6326:45
beings [1] - 6384:5
belief [1] - 6367:41
believes [1] - 6320:16
best [15] - 6316:35,
6319:33, 6319:42,
6329:46, 6333:47,
6334:3, 6335:35,
6346:28, 6346:33,
6361:28, 6367:34,
6381:38, 6383:3,
6386:2, 6391:27
Beth [6] - 6324:14,
6324:28, 6324:39,
6354:9, 6354:10,
6354:13
better [1] - 6353:23
between [16] -
6316:17, 6322:32,
6325:18, 6326:46,
6335:43, 6336:11,
6336:18, 6336:19,
6345:17, 6354:13,
6356:6, 6368:7,
6371:38, 6374:8,
6374:44, 6376:9
beyond [5] - 6322:20,
6323:22, 6366:8,
6380:7, 6388:34
big [1] - 6383:19
Big [1] - 6383:24
Bill [25] - 6315:2,
6315:12, 6315:20,
6315:26, 6316:16,
6370:25, 6370:33,
6370:41, 6371:1,
6371:2, 6371:11,
6371:14, 6371:29,
6371:39, 6372:1,
6373:6, 6373:12,
6373:32, 6373:44,
6373:47, 6374:24,
6374:32, 6374:45,
6376:19, 6376:28
bit [10] - 6321:1,
6327:42, 6344:29,
6352:7, 6355:8,
6357:15, 6357:16,
6371:37, 6375:44,
6385:12
black [1] - 6350:29
blessing [3] 6318:13, 6318:22,
6379:46
Bloom [1] - 6359:8
board [12] - 6323:46,
6324:9, 6324:32,
6324:35, 6324:37,
6329:37, 6358:42,
6360:14, 6363:19,
6381:40, 6381:42,
6381:43
boarded [1] - 6354:45
boarding [2] - 6359:5,
6360:29
body [3] - 6320:18,
6351:22, 6357:6
Bondi [23] - 6317:3,
6325:17, 6325:18,
6325:42, 6326:1,
6328:32, 6329:40,
6329:43, 6330:3,
6330:34, 6330:42,
6331:18, 6331:20,
6331:40, 6336:33,
6350:16, 6352:14,
6354:27, 6357:41,
6381:3, 6381:23,
3
Transcript produced by Merrill Corporation
6383:14
bonds [1] - 6383:44
books [1] - 6356:42
bookshelf [1] 6356:31
booth [1] - 6357:40
born [1] - 6353:20
Boruch [1] - 6361:19
bound [1] - 6318:36
boundaries [1] 6380:15
Bowral [1] - 6374:10
boy [1] - 6353:8
boys [17] - 6327:8,
6327:9, 6327:12,
6335:34, 6336:2,
6339:16, 6339:25,
6339:28, 6340:1,
6341:6, 6341:32,
6341:38, 6342:29,
6347:45, 6352:8,
6361:3, 6374:10
brave [1] - 6365:43
bread [1] - 6383:45
break [6] - 6343:44,
6344:9, 6386:29,
6386:31, 6386:34
breaking [2] - 6381:5,
6381:14
breaks [3] - 6380:8,
6380:20, 6380:21
briefly [1] - 6390:23
bring [5] - 6334:1,
6337:34, 6340:7,
6342:2, 6346:24
bringing [1] - 6366:6
brings [1] - 6370:39
Brisbane [6] 6353:24, 6353:39,
6353:40, 6353:46,
6354:19, 6360:27
broad [1] - 6319:15
broadcast [1] - 6380:8
broken [1] - 6383:44
brother [3] - 6332:30,
6332:46, 6350:17
brothers [1] - 6356:40
brought [9] - 6315:38,
6344:40, 6349:4,
6349:43, 6350:6,
6353:13, 6360:33,
6389:21
build [2] - 6350:31,
6355:5
bullying [1] - 6385:30
bundle [4] - 6367:21,
6393:32, 6393:37
BUNDLE [1] - 6393:40
bundles [1] - 6393:43
business [2] - 6314:4,
6329:19
BY [3] - 6314:22,
6387:36, 6392:7
C
C0063 [1] - 6313:15
calendar [1] - 6383:36
calm [1] - 6347:5
camp [8] - 6331:34,
6370:20, 6373:19,
6373:29, 6373:45,
6374:10, 6374:17,
6374:21
Camp [1] - 6364:22
camping [1] - 6332:4
camps [20] - 6331:30,
6332:5, 6332:36,
6333:12, 6333:19,
6333:44, 6334:3,
6334:5, 6334:18,
6334:25, 6334:29,
6334:30, 6334:34,
6334:38, 6335:10,
6335:18, 6335:34,
6336:46, 6354:32,
6354:37
campus [1] - 6327:32
cannot [7] - 6319:34,
6325:9, 6326:30,
6335:45, 6351:4,
6351:41, 6352:8
capacity [1] - 6335:10
care [5] - 6354:41,
6380:17, 6381:21,
6384:11, 6387:19
case [13] - 6317:18,
6321:4, 6342:16,
6342:25, 6349:5,
6359:24, 6370:29,
6371:29, 6379:30,
6381:42, 6382:19,
6388:24, 6389:4
Case [1] - 6313:14
cases [2] - 6382:41,
6384:16
cast [1] - 6388:36
categorically [2] 6347:7, 6382:38
Catholic [1] - 6353:28
Caucasian [1] 6355:4
causes [1] - 6379:32
cautious [1] - 6352:47
ceased [2] - 6327:27,
6327:35
cell [1] - 6381:24
cent [2] - 6385:17,
6389:36
central [2] - 6319:47,
.05/02/2015
6320:14
Centre [55] - 6317:2,
6318:17, 6318:44,
6328:5, 6328:16,
6328:20, 6328:27,
6328:28, 6328:35,
6328:44, 6329:17,
6329:18, 6329:19,
6329:29, 6329:31,
6332:34, 6333:10,
6333:16, 6333:25,
6335:9, 6335:11,
6335:17, 6335:18,
6335:34, 6335:40,
6336:46, 6339:28,
6345:5, 6345:6,
6345:14, 6345:19,
6345:23, 6348:30,
6354:14, 6354:16,
6354:19, 6354:33,
6354:37, 6355:11,
6358:9, 6361:19,
6362:27, 6363:44,
6364:23, 6364:26,
6364:45, 6366:12,
6366:20, 6367:28,
6367:39, 6374:13,
6384:9, 6387:6,
6387:16, 6387:22
centre [4] - 6328:23,
6330:17, 6332:41,
6383:9
Centre's [1] - 6355:2
certain [12] - 6315:27,
6319:21, 6319:36,
6332:42, 6338:10,
6338:13, 6347:22,
6351:16, 6358:20,
6373:33, 6373:47,
6375:26
certainly [10] 6323:38, 6346:40,
6349:16, 6349:17,
6349:30, 6356:5,
6379:19, 6387:11,
6387:32, 6391:20
cetera [6] - 6323:28,
6367:44, 6370:37,
6372:9
Chabad [55] 6314:24, 6316:40,
6316:44, 6317:11,
6317:15, 6317:21,
6318:2, 6318:24,
6318:34, 6319:15,
6320:43, 6321:33,
6321:38, 6321:39,
6321:40, 6322:28,
6322:33, 6322:34,
6322:35, 6322:39,
6322:40, 6322:41,
6322:43, 6322:44,
6323:5, 6323:11,
6323:23, 6323:31,
6324:19, 6325:21,
6329:44, 6329:47,
6332:43, 6333:11,
6344:35, 6365:3,
6366:32, 6379:43,
6380:17, 6380:18,
6383:15, 6384:3,
6384:16, 6384:43,
6385:14, 6385:37,
6386:19, 6387:28,
6389:43, 6391:34
Chabad-Lubavitch [2]
- 6316:40, 6318:2
chains [1] - 6383:43
chance [2] - 6314:38,
6375:44
change [2] - 6315:18,
6327:15
changed [4] 6315:28, 6317:47,
6327:34, 6357:32
changes [4] 6314:42, 6315:23,
6327:27, 6367:40
changing [1] 6314:35
chapter [2] - 6325:6,
6389:12
character [3] 6369:16, 6369:23,
6369:29
characteristics [2] 6322:10, 6368:17
charge [5] - 6364:37,
6364:38, 6365:10,
6367:8, 6371:26
charged [2] - 6337:31,
6378:2
charges [6] - 6364:30,
6365:4, 6365:18,
6366:13, 6376:43,
6378:4
charging [1] - 6366:17
charitable [2] 6326:2, 6330:28
chasiddishe [1] 6346:40
chat [1] - 6346:32
check [5] - 6331:26,
6331:36, 6331:41,
6332:7, 6369:4
checks [8] - 6319:29,
6320:10, 6320:12,
6320:32, 6320:35,
6320:36, 6322:22,
6323:6
4
Transcript produced by Merrill Corporation
6385:2, 6388:29,
6392:26
clearly [1] - 6324:24
client [2] - 6388:2,
6388:35
client's [1] - 6348:17
close [2] - 6360:30,
6372:13
closely [3] - 6324:33,
6380:7, 6382:23
clothe [1] - 6383:46
co [1] - 6325:30
co-operated [1] 6325:30
Coate [1] - 6313:34
colleagues [3] 6337:4, 6386:32,
6386:41
college [17] - 6326:3,
6327:35, 6330:47,
6332:35, 6336:29,
6336:38, 6345:2,
6345:3, 6354:16,
6354:27, 6354:32,
6354:39, 6367:43,
6367:44, 6371:42,
6372:34, 6374:17
College [33] - 6326:4,
6326:8, 6326:10,
6326:17, 6327:7,
6327:9, 6327:17,
6327:22, 6327:28,
6327:32, 6327:34,
6327:37, 6329:39,
6329:43, 6330:3,
6330:34, 6330:42,
6330:43, 6331:18,
6331:20, 6331:40,
6344:15, 6344:21,
6352:13, 6354:35,
6354:40, 6358:35,
6358:37, 6359:35,
6360:3, 6360:29,
6372:4
collegial [1] - 6325:24
colour [1] - 6383:11
comfort [3] - 6324:9,
6324:37, 6383:23
comfortable [1] 6374:30
coming [10] - 6314:41,
6315:19, 6320:39,
6321:27, 6321:38,
6329:29, 6332:38,
6357:9, 6369:32,
6372:16
commence [1] 6320:28
commenced [2] 6327:43, 6377:39
.05/02/2015
6366:33, 6369:7
complainant [1] 6382:33
complained [5] 6335:30, 6359:17,
6360:17, 6361:14,
6372:41
complaint [63] 6315:6, 6315:11,
6315:25, 6315:26,
6323:32, 6323:34,
6323:35, 6323:40,
6323:41, 6323:45,
6324:10, 6324:20,
6324:31, 6335:27,
6335:29, 6342:1,
6342:3, 6342:26,
6349:26, 6349:29,
6349:30, 6353:8,
6355:20, 6355:21,
6356:12, 6368:44,
6368:47, 6369:1,
6369:6, 6369:10,
6369:33, 6370:4,
6370:16, 6370:19,
6370:24, 6370:29,
6370:31, 6370:36,
6370:46, 6371:44,
6372:11, 6372:18,
6372:32, 6373:14,
6373:17, 6373:28,
6376:2, 6376:7,
6376:13, 6376:31,
6377:35, 6377:43,
6378:13, 6378:40,
6379:3, 6379:14,
6379:25, 6384:24,
6384:25, 6384:29,
6385:20, 6385:21,
6385:23
complaints [12] 6324:24, 6325:1,
6339:47, 6342:19,
6342:29, 6362:27,
6362:29, 6371:6,
6371:27, 6372:2,
6372:27, 6385:15
complete [1] 6330:22
completed [1] 6329:38
completely [6] 6343:36, 6356:24,
6356:29, 6357:36,
6371:28, 6372:42
comprehensive [2] 6328:3, 6367:34
concept [3] - 6362:43,
6381:45, 6384:36
concern [5] - 6362:3,
6365:3, 6379:32,
6380:16, 6383:6
concerning [1] 6325:8
concession [1] 6346:20
concluded [1] 6368:5
condemn [2] 6391:15, 6391:18
condemners [1] 6391:40
condemning [1] 6360:43
conduct [23] 6317:38, 6318:7,
6318:19, 6321:16,
6323:24, 6323:33,
6323:40, 6323:42,
6335:33, 6336:1,
6336:20, 6337:7,
6337:13, 6339:23,
6339:27, 6342:19,
6342:29, 6346:39,
6351:16, 6354:21,
6372:47, 6374:2,
6386:7
conducted [2] 6318:25, 6354:33
confessing [1] 6347:20
confession [5] 6343:1, 6343:16,
6346:41, 6347:18,
6347:19
confidentiality [1] 6349:46
confirm [2] - 6348:37,
6375:31
confirmed [1] 6375:38
confirms [1] - 6359:29
conflict [1] - 6366:17
conflicted [2] 6366:19, 6366:23
confusing [1] 6355:32
congregation [7] 6323:38, 6323:43,
6353:39, 6353:46,
6354:17, 6354:20,
6355:3
connection [4] 6342:2, 6364:44,
6366:26, 6387:22
consequence [2] 6354:35, 6372:39
consequences [3] 6347:26, 6372:18,
6372:31
5
Transcript produced by Merrill Corporation
6338:8, 6338:11,
6339:31, 6340:3,
6340:31, 6341:23,
6341:26, 6341:44,
6342:47, 6343:9,
6343:15, 6346:2,
6346:3, 6346:19,
6346:29, 6346:35,
6346:44, 6346:45,
6346:46, 6347:1,
6347:6, 6347:12,
6352:5, 6352:22,
6356:4, 6357:45,
6370:30, 6372:44,
6372:45, 6376:18,
6376:28, 6376:36,
6376:38, 6377:3,
6377:16, 6377:30
conversations [7] 6336:17, 6336:19,
6340:6, 6342:41,
6356:5, 6361:21,
6370:42
conversion [4] 6353:21, 6353:33,
6354:7, 6354:12
converted [1] 6353:19
conveyed [1] 6370:40
conviction [4] 6363:45, 6364:2,
6364:3, 6364:11
convinced [1] 6362:30
Conway [24] - 6315:2,
6315:12, 6315:32,
6316:16, 6370:25,
6370:34, 6370:41,
6371:1, 6371:3,
6371:11, 6371:14,
6371:29, 6371:39,
6372:2, 6373:6,
6373:13, 6373:32,
6373:44, 6373:47,
6374:24, 6374:32,
6374:45, 6376:19,
6376:28
Conway's [3] 6315:20, 6315:27,
6315:30
copies [1] - 6359:40
copy [6] - 6315:38,
6316:1, 6343:8,
6345:47, 6350:8,
6359:27
corporate [2] 6327:36, 6329:17
correct [109] 6314:32, 6314:33,
6315:3, 6315:7,
6315:14, 6316:23,
6316:41, 6316:46,
6317:4, 6317:9,
6317:22, 6317:27,
6317:33, 6317:45,
6318:5, 6318:20,
6318:27, 6318:46,
6319:4, 6320:17,
6320:30, 6320:41,
6320:47, 6321:36,
6322:25, 6322:30,
6322:36, 6322:37,
6323:12, 6324:21,
6324:40, 6324:44,
6325:19, 6326:5,
6326:9, 6326:30,
6326:38, 6326:47,
6327:24, 6327:30,
6327:41, 6328:13,
6328:25, 6328:40,
6329:26, 6329:41,
6330:6, 6330:11,
6330:19, 6330:25,
6330:31, 6331:1,
6331:5, 6331:8,
6333:14, 6333:20,
6333:27, 6333:35,
6334:19, 6334:22,
6334:23, 6334:26,
6334:27, 6334:31,
6334:35, 6334:37,
6335:6, 6336:14,
6340:29, 6342:4,
6343:19, 6344:17,
6344:26, 6344:36,
6344:39, 6345:7,
6345:11, 6345:15,
6345:20, 6345:25,
6345:34, 6355:18,
6363:8, 6364:46,
6368:30, 6369:27,
6370:13, 6370:27,
6370:32, 6371:41,
6372:24, 6372:29,
6372:34, 6373:14,
6373:15, 6373:19,
6373:25, 6373:30,
6373:36, 6374:18,
6376:11, 6377:12,
6378:5, 6378:20,
6386:15, 6389:28,
6390:36, 6392:25,
6393:4
correspondence [1] 6367:16
cot [1] - 6355:31
couch [5] - 6350:46,
6356:28, 6357:3,
6357:16, 6359:19
Council [5] - 6324:13,
.05/02/2015
6324:27, 6324:42,
6324:46, 6325:12
Counsel [1] - 6313:40
counsel [1] - 6314:8
counselled [1] 6382:12
counselling [1] 6352:35
counsellor [1] 6333:46
counsellors [1] 6374:11
country [17] 6315:35, 6339:37,
6340:4, 6375:40,
6376:3, 6377:14,
6377:25, 6377:45,
6378:2, 6378:15,
6378:30, 6378:39,
6379:15, 6379:26,
6379:34, 6379:46,
6391:30
County [1] - 6313:19
couple [1] - 6382:30
courage [2] - 6357:21,
6365:21
course [9] - 6314:9,
6315:19, 6376:36,
6377:3, 6378:18,
6378:30, 6378:39,
6386:30, 6387:4
courses [1] - 6368:6
Court [4] - 6313:19,
6325:27, 6325:28
court [5] - 6314:41,
6315:19, 6324:39,
6354:11, 6367:22
courtroom [1] 6380:6
covered [2] - 6367:38,
6367:43
creed [1] - 6383:11
crime [2] - 6379:28,
6386:13
crimes [3] - 6365:41,
6379:7, 6382:37
criminal [3] - 6349:3,
6349:16, 6365:34
crisis [2] - 6381:27,
6383:8
criteria [7] - 6321:43,
6322:10, 6368:32,
6368:34, 6368:36,
6368:37, 6386:6
criticised [1] 6381:40
crosses [1] - 6380:14
crying [3] - 6357:34,
6357:46, 6358:14
curious [1] - 6376:34
D
dad [2] - 6358:20,
6358:22
Daniel [83] - 6332:10,
6332:15, 6332:17,
6332:33, 6332:39,
6334:43, 6335:16,
6335:30, 6335:33,
6335:37, 6335:38,
6336:5, 6336:24,
6336:26, 6336:37,
6337:11, 6337:20,
6337:24, 6337:27,
6337:30, 6337:31,
6337:41, 6339:24,
6339:31, 6340:1,
6340:3, 6340:5,
6341:37, 6342:39,
6342:45, 6343:7,
6343:13, 6345:30,
6345:33, 6345:37,
6345:47, 6346:3,
6346:8, 6346:15,
6347:11, 6347:43,
6349:12, 6349:27,
6354:46, 6355:1,
6355:3, 6355:15,
6355:21, 6355:36,
6355:40, 6356:6,
6356:15, 6356:23,
6357:2, 6357:11,
6357:14, 6357:18,
6357:24, 6357:25,
6357:27, 6357:28,
6359:9, 6359:20,
6360:38, 6361:15,
6361:32, 6361:41,
6363:39, 6364:4,
6364:12, 6364:21,
6364:32, 6365:10,
6365:13, 6365:17,
6366:17, 6366:21,
6366:27, 6366:34,
6367:8, 6382:36,
6394:1
dark [4] - 6355:5,
6355:7, 6356:20,
6357:8
date [9] - 6314:17,
6314:30, 6314:35,
6316:44, 6317:18,
6318:15, 6334:38,
6367:10, 6367:12
dated [3] - 6314:17,
6314:31, 6314:37
dates [1] - 6363:20
6
Transcript produced by Merrill Corporation
.05/02/2015
6377:4
discussion [10] 6323:27, 6341:43,
6343:22, 6343:33,
6343:35, 6347:26,
6377:17, 6377:23,
6384:35
discussions [4] 6325:8, 6331:12,
6372:17, 6388:35
disinterest [1] 6388:30
dislike [1] - 6361:11
disparagingly [1] 6380:34
dispute [3] - 6321:9,
6322:28, 6324:38
disputes [1] - 6321:4
distribute [1] 6314:15
distributed [3] 6314:17, 6353:14,
6358:26
distributing [1] 6383:20
divulge [1] - 6375:16
dob [1] - 6381:16
DOCS [3] - 6375:21,
6376:21, 6378:16
document [38] 6320:43, 6321:39,
6321:40, 6321:42,
6321:46, 6322:2,
6322:4, 6322:8,
6322:15, 6322:17,
6322:18, 6337:34,
6337:35, 6340:7,
6343:26, 6347:32,
6347:34, 6347:37,
6347:40, 6349:43,
6353:13, 6358:25,
6359:27, 6364:4,
6367:6, 6367:20,
6368:17, 6368:19,
6369:40, 6369:42,
6373:5, 6385:45,
6386:6
documentation [2] 6333:23, 6334:39
documented [3] 6324:23, 6371:8,
6382:19
documents [10] 6342:18, 6349:41,
6362:16, 6362:22,
6362:23, 6362:26,
6369:20, 6369:44,
6371:9, 6393:44
domestic [1] 6380:45
E
early [4] - 6327:38,
6350:26, 6355:4,
6362:27
ease [1] - 6393:30
educated [2] 6346:34, 6347:13
education [10] 6327:46, 6328:11,
6328:12, 6328:15,
6328:42, 6328:43,
6328:45, 6328:47,
6329:44, 6331:25
effect [4] - 6352:30,
6360:36, 6369:23,
6385:36
effectively [1] 6388:46
effects [1] - 6363:33
effort [1] - 6389:23
either [12] - 6314:42,
6316:26, 6321:24,
6324:13, 6325:35,
6327:36, 6342:27,
6345:13, 6370:24,
6370:41, 6390:9,
6390:13
elected [2] - 6350:46,
6351:46
elevate [2] - 6322:28,
6324:10
Eli [8] - 6342:39,
6342:45, 6343:6,
6343:14, 6345:29,
6345:36, 6345:40,
6390:13
email [11] - 6343:8,
6344:7, 6345:27,
6345:28, 6345:37,
6346:25, 6346:47,
6347:10, 6361:33,
6367:15, 6382:31
emailed [2] - 6343:7,
6345:36
embarrassed [3] 6351:33, 6351:44,
6374:28
emissaries [20] 6317:13, 6317:14,
6317:19, 6318:3,
6318:8, 6318:12,
6320:1, 6320:5,
6320:6, 6321:13,
6321:25, 6321:41,
6322:9, 6322:11,
6322:44, 6323:25,
6323:39, 6385:35,
6385:47, 6386:7
emissary [40] 6316:40, 6317:7,
6317:11, 6317:19,
6317:25, 6317:36,
6317:38, 6318:2,
6318:16, 6318:22,
6318:26, 6318:29,
6318:43, 6319:8,
6319:16, 6319:18,
6319:44, 6320:26,
6320:27, 6321:2,
6321:7, 6321:21,
6321:31, 6321:32,
6321:35, 6321:43,
7
Transcript produced by Merrill Corporation
6322:1, 6322:27,
6323:1, 6323:5,
6323:6, 6323:10,
6323:11, 6323:18,
6323:22, 6323:44,
6324:3, 6324:32,
6327:16
emotional [1] - 6383:1
emotionally [1] 6383:25
empathy [1] - 6380:34
employ [3] - 6318:11,
6318:17, 6318:36
employed [4] 6318:44, 6332:1,
6344:40, 6345:13
employee [8] - 6345:6,
6345:19, 6345:24,
6348:1, 6348:29,
6349:28, 6361:19
employees [1] 6348:3
employer/employee
[1] - 6318:37
employment [1] 6369:5
encapsulates [1] 6385:45
encourage [1] 6365:40
encouraged [2] 6317:6, 6324:1
encourages [1] 6365:23
end [8] - 6327:16,
6327:22, 6327:26,
6327:28, 6327:37,
6348:21, 6374:25,
6380:31
endeavour [1] 6386:2
endeavours [1] 6361:4
endured [2] - 6380:9,
6383:31
engage [2] - 6332:38,
6363:5
enjoyable [1] 6354:36
enquiries [4] - 6322:7,
6370:1, 6380:44,
6386:39
enrol [2] - 6354:38,
6389:21
enrolment [3] 6372:23, 6388:20
ensure [4] - 6321:20,
6365:41, 6380:25,
6385:35
ensuring [2] - 6380:1,
6385:46
enter [1] - 6357:28
entire [2] - 6380:6,
6380:19
entities [6] - 6326:3,
6326:9, 6326:16,
6326:26, 6327:36,
6367:39
entitled [1] - 6318:38
entity [9] - 6326:23,
6326:24, 6326:25,
6327:6, 6327:47,
6329:17, 6329:39,
6330:13, 6367:42
environment [1] 6383:25
eradicating [1] 6366:5
erect [1] - 6357:8
error [4] - 6378:9,
6378:11, 6378:22,
6378:25
escalation [1] 6365:31
establish [1] 6345:43
established [2] 6379:27, 6379:29
establishing [1] 6318:12
establishment [1] 6383:8
et [6] - 6323:28,
6367:44, 6370:37,
6372:9
ethos [10] - 6317:15,
6317:20, 6321:33,
6321:38, 6321:40,
6324:5, 6332:45,
6383:16, 6384:2,
6384:3
European [1] 6381:32
evening [1] - 6360:35
event [9] - 6315:10,
6321:9, 6321:16,
6322:20, 6333:10,
6359:28, 6359:41,
6364:42, 6379:10
events [10] - 6314:46,
6342:16, 6344:33,
6355:18, 6355:22,
6356:36, 6357:31,
6358:24, 6364:31,
6364:43
eventually [3] 6337:31, 6364:21,
6364:37
evidence [30] 6314:7, 6317:24,
.05/02/2015
6317:35, 6318:42,
6320:41, 6325:25,
6325:26, 6326:34,
6328:10, 6331:29,
6337:41, 6339:21,
6340:2, 6344:14,
6348:17, 6353:7,
6355:18, 6368:43,
6368:47, 6370:3,
6388:9, 6388:12,
6388:19, 6388:42,
6388:45, 6389:2,
6392:11, 6392:15,
6393:45
evident [2] - 6380:43,
6382:18
evil [1] - 6382:45
exact [6] - 6351:41,
6367:10, 6367:12,
6388:7, 6388:32,
6388:33
exactly [8] - 6323:2,
6323:8, 6335:45,
6337:45, 6338:34,
6339:8, 6340:11,
6376:45
EXAMINATION [3] 6314:22, 6387:36,
6392:7
examine [1] - 6321:42
examined [3] 6321:17, 6339:21,
6362:17
EXCEPT [1] - 6393:40
exception [1] 6393:36
excluded [1] - 6381:8
excuse [3] - 6335:12,
6350:4, 6359:37
excused [2] - 6393:20,
6393:24
executive [1] 6375:24
exercise [7] - 6317:30,
6318:7, 6318:10,
6318:18, 6322:43,
6323:24, 6323:27
exercised [3] 6319:22, 6319:24,
6321:15
exhibit [2] - 6393:38,
6394:2
EXHIBIT [3] - 6316:33,
6393:40, 6394:6
exist [3] - 6321:44,
6323:6, 6334:38
existed [1] - 6328:35
exists [2] - 6320:43,
6343:28
expect [5] - 6322:1,
6322:11, 6341:47,
6342:7, 6362:3
expected [3] 6321:41, 6348:40,
6349:33
expelled [1] - 6388:46
experience [3] 6380:29, 6380:32,
6382:46
experienced [1] 6381:32
experiences [2] 6354:37, 6380:23
explain [3] - 6327:41,
6389:46, 6390:29
explained [2] 6322:47, 6381:44
explore [6] - 6321:27,
6333:8, 6348:42,
6349:24, 6364:36,
6379:41
explored [1] - 6348:27
exploring [1] 6348:33
exposed [1] - 6385:40
express [1] - 6380:33
expression [1] 6390:45
extension [1] - 6375:9
extent [2] - 6328:2,
6392:12
extra [1] - 6332:41
extradite [1] - 6379:29
extradited [3] 6378:4, 6378:5,
6379:35
extraordinary [1] 6361:44
extreme [1] - 6380:15
extremely [3] 6343:35, 6385:2,
6389:20
eyes [3] - 6355:6,
6356:30, 6356:32
F
face [3] - 6357:1,
6364:37, 6378:39
faced [1] - 6357:24
facilitate [3] 6328:47, 6329:1,
6378:29
facilitated [4] 6328:44, 6329:30,
6381:20, 6383:8
facilities [1] - 6383:14
facility [1] - 6328:35
facing [1] - 6351:11
fact [19] - 6321:28,
6327:18, 6337:21,
6337:23, 6344:20,
6344:38, 6347:1,
6347:5, 6359:30,
6362:21, 6366:20,
6370:41, 6371:19,
6372:3, 6379:3,
6379:24, 6383:11,
6383:27, 6387:11
factor [1] - 6321:34
facts [5] - 6388:5,
6389:45, 6389:47
failed [3] - 6378:15,
6384:9, 6385:29
fair [2] - 6361:44,
6362:28
fairly [3] - 6350:38,
6355:29, 6382:2
faith [5] - 6353:44,
6354:12, 6354:31,
6360:9, 6383:12
false [3] - 6371:27,
6376:44, 6382:38
familiar [3] - 6330:17,
6349:15, 6349:21
familiarity [1] 6349:19
families [4] - 6358:42,
6359:4, 6359:7,
6380:9
family [19] - 6332:17,
6332:18, 6332:29,
6332:43, 6332:44,
6353:23, 6353:24,
6355:32, 6359:23,
6360:16, 6381:26,
6381:39, 6382:27,
6389:44, 6390:46,
6391:6, 6391:10
far [8] - 6325:4,
6357:16, 6366:10,
6367:20, 6373:11,
6385:7, 6389:16
fashion [3] - 6323:26,
6325:40, 6384:46
fast [2] - 6383:37,
6383:42
father [12] - 6343:15,
6346:19, 6346:29,
6346:30, 6347:22,
6353:22, 6353:27,
6354:41, 6356:41,
6388:20, 6389:18,
6389:19
February [6] 6313:26, 6314:18,
6314:31, 6314:36,
6392:40
FEBRUARY [1] 6394:15
8
Transcript produced by Merrill Corporation
6328:32, 6330:9,
6330:30, 6330:35,
6352:14
follow [4] - 6317:15,
6317:20, 6373:32,
6375:46
followed [3] 6320:33, 6376:20,
6379:19
following [32] 6319:42, 6332:16,
6339:32, 6340:8,
6347:33, 6349:10,
6351:40, 6353:13,
6353:36, 6357:31,
6358:26, 6361:6,
6363:45, 6364:2,
6364:11, 6365:10,
6365:11, 6366:13,
6367:8, 6367:15,
6371:44, 6372:11,
6373:40, 6374:25,
6375:30, 6380:7,
6380:38, 6383:31,
6383:40, 6387:5,
6387:7, 6387:25
fondle [1] - 6351:30
food [1] - 6381:24
foot [2] - 6350:30,
6350:31
FOR [1] - 6393:40
forces [1] - 6381:33
form [9] - 6321:15,
6321:16, 6322:43,
6330:4, 6346:42,
6369:25, 6380:10,
6382:11, 6387:8
formal [19] - 6320:42,
6322:23, 6324:20,
6324:47, 6325:17,
6332:47, 6333:10,
6333:16, 6334:2,
6334:16, 6334:38,
6342:17, 6363:12,
6369:5, 6369:40,
6369:42, 6369:44,
6371:2, 6385:45
formal" [1] - 6333:9
formalise [1] - 6328:7
formalised [2] 6321:1, 6333:23
formalising [1] 6329:36
former [1] - 6365:17
formerly [1] - 6327:37
formulation [1] 6386:6
forward [7] - 6357:4,
6357:11, 6365:22,
6366:33, 6366:42,
.05/02/2015
6369:25, 6387:17
foundation [1] 6330:28
four [3] - 6350:43,
6374:11, 6393:44
framework [2] 6320:3, 6378:6
free [4] - 6383:44,
6384:30, 6387:9,
6391:30
freely [1] - 6374:29
FRIDAY [1] - 6394:14
friend [3] - 6348:22,
6357:43, 6357:45
front [4] - 6357:2,
6357:33, 6359:28,
6385:39
frozen [2] - 6351:36,
6357:13
full [1] - 6350:29
functioning [1] 6321:43
functions [1] 6326:18
funding [2] - 6326:29,
6326:30
fused [1] - 6326:26
G
gained [1] - 6391:36
Gan [1] - 6364:22
gay [1] - 6352:27
Gedola [24] - 6330:9,
6330:13, 6330:16,
6330:35, 6331:4,
6331:11, 6331:17,
6336:13, 6336:29,
6337:3, 6342:8,
6342:10, 6342:23,
6342:27, 6344:10,
6345:10, 6363:23,
6372:23, 6388:6,
6388:28, 6389:17,
6390:16
Gedolah [1] - 6352:14
general [7] - 6321:47,
6322:13, 6324:4,
6367:11, 6367:41,
6370:35, 6389:8
generally [2] 6362:34, 6368:4
generous [1] 6383:28
genuine [1] - 6391:11
genuineness [1] 6391:35
Gerace [8] - 6313:40,
6314:1, 6316:2,
6344:5, 6347:38,
6348:25, 6348:42,
6386:33
GERACE [18] 6314:3, 6314:15,
6314:22, 6314:24,
6316:10, 6316:35,
6343:40, 6344:7,
6347:40, 6348:27,
6349:1, 6381:10,
6386:38, 6393:15,
6393:19, 6393:28,
6393:43, 6394:9
Germany [1] - 6382:1
girl [1] - 6361:43
girls [2] - 6327:9,
6327:13
Givat [2] - 6353:47,
6354:20
given [7] - 6315:40,
6334:7, 6363:43,
6366:18, 6366:28,
6373:46, 6387:31
glasses [2] - 6355:6,
6355:30
go-to [1] - 6334:2
God [3] - 6379:45,
6383:42, 6391:29
Goldman [1] - 6359:8
Gourarie [1] - 6359:7
governance [5] 6321:18, 6321:22,
6321:46, 6322:9,
6322:44
government [3] 6326:30, 6382:13,
6382:22
grandparents [1] 6353:29
grave [2] - 6361:40,
6362:3
great [2] - 6379:41,
6379:46
greater [1] - 6328:2
greenslopes [1] 6353:45
grew [2] - 6353:27,
6353:28
groom [1] - 6362:47
grooming [3] 6362:39, 6362:43,
6363:6
group [6] - 6325:37,
6327:33, 6327:45,
6352:11, 6352:34,
6389:22
grouping [1] 6389:23
groups [2] - 6325:36,
6332:36
grown [1] - 6383:13
H
hair [1] - 6355:5
hairy [2] - 6350:30,
6351:26
Halachic [4] 6324:15, 6379:40,
6381:45, 6385:15
halachically [2] 6392:25, 6393:4
half [1] - 6352:33
halfway [1] - 6345:28
hall [1] - 6328:34
hand [10] - 6322:2,
6351:11, 6351:19,
6351:21, 6351:25,
6351:30, 6351:32,
6357:12, 6359:20,
6391:3
hanging [1] - 6338:19
happy [2] - 6355:9,
6371:29
harassing [1] 6345:41
hardly [1] - 6319:29
harmony [1] - 6366:7
Harry [1] - 6330:29
Hayman [88] 6332:11, 6332:15,
6332:29, 6332:33,
9
Transcript produced by Merrill Corporation
6332:39, 6334:43,
6335:16, 6335:31,
6335:33, 6335:37,
6335:38, 6336:5,
6336:19, 6336:20,
6336:24, 6336:26,
6336:37, 6337:11,
6337:20, 6337:21,
6337:24, 6337:28,
6337:30, 6337:31,
6339:24, 6339:31,
6340:1, 6340:3,
6340:5, 6341:37,
6342:39, 6342:46,
6343:8, 6343:14,
6345:30, 6345:33,
6345:37, 6345:47,
6346:3, 6346:8,
6346:15, 6347:11,
6347:43, 6349:12,
6349:27, 6350:22,
6354:46, 6355:2,
6355:3, 6355:15,
6355:21, 6355:41,
6356:6, 6356:15,
6356:23, 6357:3,
6357:11, 6357:14,
6357:18, 6357:24,
6357:25, 6357:27,
6357:28, 6359:9,
6359:20, 6360:38,
6360:43, 6361:12,
6361:15, 6361:32,
6361:41, 6362:33,
6363:39, 6364:2,
6364:4, 6364:12,
6364:21, 6364:32,
6365:10, 6365:13,
6365:17, 6366:17,
6366:21, 6366:27,
6366:34, 6367:9,
6394:1
Hayman's [6] 6332:17, 6337:41,
6361:1, 6361:8,
6364:44, 6382:36
Head [1] - 6374:20
head [20] - 6316:38,
6317:2, 6318:29,
6319:16, 6319:25,
6320:26, 6324:3,
6325:12, 6327:17,
6344:35, 6345:23,
6348:4, 6348:9,
6348:14, 6348:32,
6366:25, 6366:31,
6374:12, 6380:18,
6382:22
head) [1] - 6336:43
headed [1] - 6323:39
.05/02/2015
6375:27, 6375:32
hoc [1] - 6325:39
hold [4] - 6376:45,
6376:46, 6377:19,
6378:42
holding [1] - 6377:19
holidays [1] - 6359:2
holidays" [1] 6354:22
holiest [1] - 6383:36
Holocaust [3] 6381:17, 6381:30,
6381:43
holy [1] - 6384:18
home [20] - 6327:43,
6328:1, 6328:4,
6328:10, 6329:45,
6329:47, 6352:18,
6353:27, 6353:28,
6354:45, 6355:34,
6355:36, 6355:40,
6356:27, 6356:34,
6359:2, 6361:43,
6380:45, 6383:46
homeless [1] 6383:45
homes [1] - 6328:12
homework [1] 6356:28
homosexual [7] 6333:30, 6335:3,
6335:15, 6335:19,
6335:25, 6339:27
honestly [1] - 6341:23
Honour [13] - 6314:3,
6314:10, 6316:29,
6343:40, 6347:41,
6348:27, 6367:6,
6386:24, 6386:38,
6393:15, 6393:28,
6394:2, 6394:9
hope [1] - 6382:1
hour [1] - 6352:33
hours [2] - 6358:10,
6376:2
house [7] - 6352:21,
6352:32, 6353:2,
6353:5, 6361:9,
6383:8, 6383:13
housekeeping [1] 6393:29
human [2] - 6380:2,
6384:5
humanitarian [1] 6383:19
hundreds [2] 6332:38, 6391:2
hungry [1] - 6383:45
I
Ian [1] - 6392:9
idea [1] - 6360:7
identifiable [2] 6368:17, 6368:19
identified [1] 6390:39
identify [1] - 6359:32
ignore [1] - 6383:47
illnesses [1] - 6383:1
ills [1] - 6382:44
images [1] - 6356:42
imagined [1] 6360:40
immediate [2] 6356:31, 6383:2
immediately [3] 6356:30, 6377:43,
6382:33
immune [2] - 6382:44,
6384:6
imperative [1] 6317:45
important [2] 6343:35, 6365:32
impossible [1] 6356:33
impression [1] 6389:5
impressions [1] 6389:8
imprimatur [1] 6345:46
inappropriate [11] 6337:7, 6339:5,
6339:25, 6342:1,
6342:19, 6342:29,
6352:23, 6356:10,
6370:20, 6373:18,
6373:29
inappropriately [4] 6319:41, 6348:12,
6352:26, 6361:41
incidence [1] 6363:28
incident [10] 6341:24, 6356:45,
6356:47, 6373:45,
6373:46, 6374:9,
6374:28, 6375:2,
6380:38, 6382:8
incidents [2] 6356:14, 6382:14
include [2] - 6369:13,
6369:14
included [3] 6321:47, 6327:12,
6359:7
includes [1] - 6322:27
10
Transcript produced by Merrill Corporation
6361:20, 6361:34,
6365:25, 6365:45,
6366:41, 6370:40,
6378:18, 6378:37,
6379:24, 6379:39,
6384:22, 6387:27,
6387:29
informed [9] 6315:32, 6361:24,
6373:40, 6374:33,
6375:1, 6375:41,
6376:7, 6378:12,
6382:20
informer [2] - 6380:30,
6381:41
informing [2] 6370:31, 6381:46
initiate [1] - 6322:24
initiated [1] - 6352:22
injunction [1] 6320:20
injunctive [1] 6322:27
innocence [2] 6371:33, 6379:5
innocent [3] 6371:28, 6372:42,
6377:7
input [1] - 6348:7
inspired [1] - 6383:16
instance [6] 6320:19, 6323:45,
6324:8, 6324:12,
6363:1, 6371:11
instances [2] 6382:16, 6392:22
institution [17] 6328:7, 6349:38,
6362:2, 6362:11,
6366:26, 6366:28,
6366:31, 6368:25,
6370:8, 6371:4,
6383:9, 6387:8,
6387:9, 6388:47,
6390:38, 6390:40,
6390:41
INSTITUTIONAL [1] 6313:8
institutions [5] 6326:46, 6368:6,
6368:8, 6380:17,
6384:6
instructions [3] 6373:32, 6382:21,
6388:19
insufficient [1] 6374:2
insurance [5] 6367:28, 6367:30,
6367:32, 6367:38,
6367:42
insured [1] - 6367:32
intended [1] - 6368:2
intending [2] 6350:21, 6376:37
interaction [1] 6337:2
interest [1] - 6374:11
interested [1] 6329:35
interests [1] - 6381:38
interject [1] - 6345:39
internal [2] - 6362:26,
6362:28
interpose [1] - 6314:6
interrupt [1] - 6381:7
intervening [1] 6345:17
interview [6] 6337:33, 6339:22,
6343:8, 6345:38,
6346:1, 6346:7
interviewed [3] 6337:33, 6376:30,
6378:2
INTO [1] - 6313:8
introduce [1] 6336:12
invent [1] - 6358:14
inventing [1] 6358:15
investigated [1] 6376:14
investigation [3] 6375:2, 6375:13,
6377:9
investing [1] 6379:47
invite [1] - 6379:44
invited [1] - 6350:14
involve [4] - 6371:39,
6375:14, 6379:22,
6382:12
involved [20] - 6326:9,
6329:10, 6329:11,
6329:12, 6329:31,
6332:40, 6332:47,
6333:9, 6333:43,
6333:45, 6336:41,
6354:15, 6356:14,
6372:3, 6372:36,
6375:22, 6383:24,
6390:10, 6390:16,
6390:39
involvement [2] 6333:23, 6336:45
involving [4] 6339:28, 6364:31,
6369:35, 6381:41
Ipswich [2] - 6353:24,
.05/02/2015
6353:26
irregular [1] - 6389:21
irreligious [1] 6388:29
Isaiah [1] - 6383:40
Israel [1] - 6364:22
issue [8] - 6345:42,
6349:4, 6349:19,
6363:44, 6364:10,
6367:7, 6372:18,
6381:44
issued [7] - 6362:22,
6364:3, 6365:11,
6366:12, 6367:11,
6367:14
issues [14] - 6324:2,
6324:11, 6324:12,
6324:15, 6330:8,
6337:5, 6337:7,
6342:13, 6348:5,
6366:36, 6366:43,
6371:30, 6372:22,
6380:28
itself [3] - 6324:19,
6342:22, 6344:16
J
Jacob [1] - 6334:11
January [2] - 6314:30,
6314:37
Jennifer [1] - 6313:34
Jew [3] - 6381:34,
6381:35, 6382:1
Jewish [29] - 6326:5,
6326:17, 6326:21,
6326:31, 6326:35,
6327:2, 6327:6,
6334:5, 6350:15,
6353:4, 6353:25,
6353:44, 6354:2,
6358:36, 6358:38,
6360:11, 6365:18,
6367:11, 6367:23,
6382:43, 6383:8,
6383:12, 6383:13,
6383:36, 6383:37,
6384:2, 6384:15,
6384:35
Jews [3] - 6347:19,
6381:46, 6382:3
JIRT [1] - 6376:30
job [1] - 6324:34
join [1] - 6332:46
joint [1] - 6325:34
jokester [1] - 6355:9
journalist [1] 6367:24
jovial [1] - 6355:9
Judaism [3] -
6319:27, 6353:19,
6358:37
judged [3] - 6321:44,
6368:18, 6386:7
judgment [4] - 6378:9,
6378:11, 6378:22,
6378:25
judicial [1] - 6365:34
July [9] - 6373:43,
6374:7, 6374:9,
6374:32, 6375:30,
6376:7, 6376:9,
6389:31
jurisdiction [1] 6387:31
Justice [1] - 6313:34
justifiable [1] 6381:36
K
keep [6] - 6340:44,
6340:47, 6341:2,
6341:30, 6373:1,
6384:18
keeping [1] - 6356:31
kept [1] - 6373:2
Kesser [1] - 6327:34
key [1] - 6355:44
kid [1] - 6353:42
kids [2] - 6338:28,
6358:36
kin [1] - 6383:47
Kippur [2] - 6383:36,
6383:41
kitchen [2] - 6356:23,
6383:19
Kitchen [1] - 6383:24
knock [1] - 6383:34
knocked [1] - 6389:6
knots [1] - 6383:43
knowing [1] - 6382:36
knowledge [10] 6315:34, 6316:21,
6324:47, 6329:47,
6332:15, 6340:24,
6349:37, 6367:34,
6389:30
known [7] - 6327:37,
6352:13, 6352:17,
6353:45, 6357:25,
6366:18, 6379:18
kosher [1] - 6381:24
L
L-E-I-D-E-R [1] 6334:14
labelled [1] - 6380:29
ladies [2] - 6354:27,
6354:32
Ladies [3] - 6354:35,
6354:39, 6354:40
large [6] - 6328:6,
6350:41, 6379:47,
6382:45, 6383:11,
6392:12
last [6] - 6334:13,
6342:38, 6342:45,
6348:30, 6358:46,
6374:28
late [4] - 6342:38,
6350:38, 6354:47,
6355:1
law [3] - 6335:20,
6375:47, 6384:15
leader [6] - 6316:43,
6327:18, 6327:22,
6341:47, 6380:40,
6391:34
leadership [2] 6325:35, 6382:40
leading [1] - 6382:9
leaned [1] - 6357:11
leaning [1] - 6357:4
least [4] - 6345:46,
6352:33, 6356:26,
6374:45
leave [19] - 6334:16,
6339:37, 6358:24,
6376:41, 6376:42,
6377:1, 6377:14,
6377:17, 6377:45,
6378:8, 6378:14,
6378:30, 6378:39,
6379:15, 6379:26,
6379:34, 6388:27,
6388:28, 6388:39
leaves [1] - 6382:45
leaving [5] - 6369:4,
6377:25, 6378:43,
6379:1, 6379:21
led [2] - 6364:36,
6378:18
left [19] - 6315:32,
6315:35, 6316:18,
6316:22, 6339:43,
6340:4, 6351:4,
6351:21, 6351:22,
6352:34, 6356:31,
6356:32, 6357:33,
6374:1, 6375:40,
6376:3, 6378:1,
6382:26, 6383:29
leg [1] - 6359:21
legal [8] - 6326:24,
6326:26, 6329:39,
6364:35, 6367:42,
6381:25, 6384:35
Leider [1] - 6334:11
11
Transcript produced by Merrill Corporation
6392:18, 6392:34,
6392:40
lived [1] - 6360:10
living [2] - 6379:46,
6391:29
locate [1] - 6366:39
logistical [1] - 6314:5
look [14] - 6315:26,
6316:13, 6321:42,
6322:8, 6339:44,
6346:24, 6357:5,
6363:34, 6370:33,
6372:13, 6372:26,
6375:44, 6389:23,
6390:23
looked [2] - 6315:19,
6361:12
looking [4] - 6314:44,
6357:4, 6357:38,
6375:39
loosely [1] - 6369:21
lost [1] - 6372:20
lounge [1] - 6350:46
Lubavich [1] 6322:34
Lubavitch [2] 6316:40, 6318:2
lunch [1] - 6343:44
LUNCHEON [1] 6344:1
luncheon [1] - 6344:9
lying [1] - 6351:3
M
main [3] - 6327:6,
6327:32, 6350:41
maintain [1] - 6390:47
male [1] - 6356:39
man [3] - 6347:2,
6383:33, 6389:35
managed [1] 6327:33
management [10] 6323:46, 6324:9,
6324:32, 6324:35,
6324:38, 6327:36,
6329:25, 6362:2,
6381:40, 6381:42
managing [1] 6348:10
manner [3] - 6314:26,
6346:40, 6366:4
Manny [10] - 6387:39,
6388:2, 6388:5,
6388:27, 6389:5,
6389:17, 6389:35,
6390:46, 6391:6,
6391:10
Margaret [1] - 6353:39
.05/02/2015
6375:35, 6375:38,
6376:8, 6376:14,
6376:18, 6377:4,
6381:43
meetings [3] 6370:41, 6373:2,
6373:3
Melbourne [6] 6313:20, 6325:18,
6325:35, 6325:37,
6325:38, 6383:30
Melinda [1] - 6387:38
Member [1] - 6313:34
member [11] 6323:33, 6323:38,
6323:43, 6324:30,
6355:2, 6365:17,
6381:21, 6382:31,
6382:32, 6384:30,
6384:36
MEMBER [21] 6314:1, 6314:13,
6315:47, 6316:6,
6316:31, 6343:43,
6344:5, 6347:37,
6348:25, 6348:36,
6381:13, 6386:29,
6387:34, 6391:44,
6392:1, 6392:5,
6393:17, 6393:22,
6393:36, 6394:4,
6394:11
members [10] 6324:14, 6348:11,
6354:16, 6366:32,
6380:11, 6381:29,
6381:40, 6383:6,
6385:41, 6393:30
memory [4] - 6343:23,
6343:34, 6344:22,
6390:24
men [2] - 6355:12,
6356:42
mental [1] - 6382:47
mention [1] - 6347:17
mentioned [2] 6325:26, 6382:8
mentioning [1] 6315:43
mentor [1] - 6333:4
mentoring [1] 6342:14
merely [1] - 6384:25
mesirah [4] - 6379:39,
6381:45, 6382:5,
6392:21
message [1] - 6366:32
met [2] - 6335:38,
6371:20
method [1] - 6369:41
12
Transcript produced by Merrill Corporation
6314:6, 6358:12,
6394:11
moser [2] - 6380:29,
6381:41
moser" [1] - 6380:35
Moshe [1] - 6392:10
most [7] - 6354:47,
6376:13, 6380:3,
6380:11, 6380:12,
6383:6, 6384:6
mostly [1] - 6353:1
mother [10] - 6353:28,
6373:40, 6373:43,
6374:1, 6374:8,
6380:46, 6381:5,
6381:14, 6381:17
move [3] - 6330:8,
6353:36, 6357:21
moved [4] - 6353:3,
6353:24, 6357:12,
6361:8
movement [14] 6317:15, 6317:21,
6318:24, 6319:16,
6321:34, 6321:38,
6322:36, 6332:47,
6351:14, 6380:19,
6384:3, 6384:16,
6389:43, 6391:34
moving [1] - 6357:15
MR [9] - 6348:16,
6348:45, 6381:7,
6391:46, 6392:3,
6392:7, 6392:9,
6392:36, 6392:39
MS [20] - 6314:3,
6314:15, 6314:22,
6314:24, 6316:10,
6316:35, 6343:40,
6344:7, 6347:40,
6348:27, 6349:1,
6381:10, 6386:38,
6387:36, 6387:38,
6393:15, 6393:19,
6393:28, 6393:43,
6394:9
Murray [1] - 6313:36
must [5] - 6324:38,
6360:24, 6365:40,
6376:11, 6384:37
N
naked [8] - 6356:15,
6356:25, 6356:39,
6356:41, 6356:42,
6357:4, 6357:6,
6383:46
nakedness [1] 6356:37
.05/02/2015
6391:13
new [6] - 6317:2,
6321:13, 6321:21,
6327:47, 6329:38,
6383:18
New [63] - 6314:25,
6316:39, 6316:40,
6316:44, 6317:1,
6317:8, 6317:11,
6317:13, 6317:20,
6318:3, 6318:30,
6318:34, 6319:8,
6319:15, 6319:45,
6319:47, 6320:2,
6320:14, 6320:26,
6320:27, 6320:43,
6321:39, 6322:11,
6322:29, 6322:33,
6322:34, 6322:39,
6322:40, 6322:41,
6322:47, 6323:5,
6323:17, 6323:23,
6323:24, 6323:25,
6323:31, 6324:27,
6324:42, 6324:46,
6325:5, 6325:12,
6325:16, 6325:27,
6327:16, 6344:35,
6352:44, 6379:43,
6380:18, 6384:9,
6384:16, 6384:43,
6385:14, 6385:37,
6385:41, 6386:1,
6386:9, 6386:19,
6387:26, 6387:28
Newcomb [2] 6375:22, 6375:24
News [1] - 6367:23
newspapers [1] 6367:12
Next [1] - 6338:23
next [3] - 6352:2,
6372:11, 6374:6
night [9] - 6340:18,
6350:38, 6350:44,
6351:43, 6351:47,
6359:6, 6359:14,
6359:18, 6360:39
nights [1] - 6355:35
no" [1] - 6373:25
noble [1] - 6384:6
nobody [2] - 6335:29,
6342:4
nods) [11] - 6316:19,
6325:22, 6326:43,
6328:21, 6333:31,
6334:20, 6336:31,
6344:12, 6355:25,
6372:5, 6376:16
nomination [1] -
6369:23
none [2] - 6348:18,
6380:45
normal [2] - 6353:34,
6389:22
normally [1] - 6323:46
note [1] - 6386:26
noted [1] - 6371:1
notes [22] - 6314:45,
6314:47, 6315:2,
6315:12, 6315:20,
6315:27, 6315:31,
6316:16, 6365:16,
6370:33, 6370:34,
6370:35, 6370:42,
6372:13, 6372:17,
6372:46, 6372:47,
6373:6, 6373:12,
6373:39, 6375:29,
6375:40
nothing [9] - 6325:40,
6332:47, 6333:9,
6342:30, 6347:24,
6358:2, 6391:46,
6393:17, 6393:19
notice [3] - 6363:44,
6374:36, 6375:3
notification [1] 6377:40
notified [6] - 6371:31,
6376:38, 6376:39,
6379:14, 6382:22
notify [5] - 6378:16,
6378:17, 6378:20,
6379:33
notwithstanding [2] 6368:47, 6371:33
November [1] - 6355:1
NPF.053.002.0012_E
_R [1] - 6337:35
NPF.053.002.0030_E
_R [1] - 6340:8
NPF.053.002.0507_E
_R [1] - 6373:5
NSW.2021.001.0221
[3] - 6349:43,
6393:45, 6394:6
NSW.2021.001.0225
[3] - 6353:15,
6393:46, 6394:7
NSW.2021.001.0239
[3] - 6358:26,
6393:46, 6394:7
NSW.2021.001.0242
[3] - 6359:27,
6393:46, 6394:7
number [15] 6320:47, 6321:11,
6321:46, 6321:47,
6326:11, 6328:6,
6329:35, 6332:41,
6336:27, 6374:10,
6379:38, 6380:28,
6381:29, 6382:13,
6383:13
O
object [1] - 6348:16
objective [1] - 6368:37
obligation [8] 6377:46, 6378:42,
6384:18, 6385:15,
6385:20, 6392:45,
6393:2
obligations [1] 6379:40
obtain [3] - 6330:23,
6342:40, 6343:27
obvious [1] - 6376:4
obviously [2] 6338:44, 6374:3
occasion [2] 6351:46, 6354:18
occasionally [1] 6359:12
occasioning [1] 6359:11
occasions [8] 6336:27, 6355:39,
6356:26, 6356:27,
6382:14, 6388:6,
6388:27, 6388:39
occur [4] - 6320:25,
6331:31, 6342:26,
6374:6
occurred [14] 6320:8, 6327:15,
6356:25, 6364:22,
6366:26, 6370:36,
6373:45, 6374:9,
6374:41, 6376:9,
6380:16, 6380:38,
6386:14, 6386:21
occurring [4] 6337:8, 6347:23,
6355:19, 6366:29
occurs [4] - 6330:17,
6374:8, 6374:24,
6386:14
October [1] - 6354:40
odd [1] - 6355:33
OF [1] - 6316:33
offence [2] - 6363:40,
6365:34
offences [2] 6337:32, 6372:41
offer [1] - 6389:39
offered [1] - 6332:34
office [2] - 6358:11,
13
Transcript produced by Merrill Corporation
6371:25
official [9] - 6368:32,
6368:34, 6368:36,
6379:43, 6384:15,
6385:14, 6385:37,
6386:18, 6390:42
often [8] - 6322:35,
6324:6, 6324:33,
6331:30, 6354:8,
6356:15, 6361:3,
6379:7
older [2] - 6344:29,
6357:43
oldest [1] - 6354:26
once [8] - 6317:24,
6317:35, 6318:16,
6319:1, 6323:1,
6369:32, 6376:28,
6389:1
one [42] - 6318:17,
6319:19, 6319:21,
6319:27, 6322:11,
6323:39, 6324:2,
6325:11, 6325:25,
6325:31, 6326:40,
6331:44, 6333:2,
6333:4, 6334:18,
6336:12, 6339:28,
6341:19, 6343:35,
6346:29, 6347:1,
6348:11, 6353:30,
6353:45, 6355:30,
6359:14, 6359:18,
6359:30, 6360:35,
6364:30, 6368:28,
6373:39, 6374:11,
6380:10, 6380:28,
6380:42, 6383:27,
6384:45, 6385:1,
6389:9, 6393:34
ones [2] - 6371:15,
6380:12
ongoing [1] - 6383:2
onwards [1] - 6327:29
open [1] - 6360:31
openly [1] - 6391:35
operate [4] - 6317:25,
6317:36, 6325:25,
6326:22
operated [6] 6325:30, 6326:1,
6326:4, 6326:16,
6328:23, 6329:17
operates [1] - 6330:13
operating [2] - 6326:9,
6333:25
operation [5] 6325:16, 6326:19,
6329:16, 6330:42,
6383:20
.05/02/2015
6343:7, 6343:29,
6357:8, 6363:10,
6393:24, 6393:37,
6394:11
ought [1] - 6348:21
ourselves [2] 6365:6, 6382:15
outcome [1] - 6365:16
outline [1] - 6322:15
outlines [1] - 6321:40
outreach [1] - 6352:16
outside [2] - 6320:1,
6357:41
overall [3] - 6324:4,
6362:2, 6371:3
overseas [7] - 6320:2,
6332:23, 6332:26,
6332:29, 6332:30,
6332:31, 6382:28
oversight [1] 6348:10
own [21] - 6318:12,
6318:23, 6318:38,
6319:1, 6319:2,
6319:12, 6345:42,
6348:6, 6355:34,
6355:44, 6355:45,
6377:20, 6377:42,
6380:46, 6384:39,
6388:42, 6388:45,
6391:26, 6391:27
P
paddy [2] - 6381:4,
6381:15
paedophile [3] 6362:40, 6362:44,
6362:47
paedophiles [1] 6363:5
page [10] - 6347:28,
6347:33, 6347:34,
6350:36, 6353:36,
6373:40, 6390:26,
6392:36, 6392:41
paid [2] - 6333:23,
6367:38
pain [1] - 6380:30
pants [2] - 6351:7,
6351:20
paragraph [28] 6315:15, 6315:17,
6326:11, 6326:13,
6327:42, 6343:14,
6346:18, 6346:26,
6349:47, 6350:6,
6351:9, 6351:16,
6351:38, 6352:2,
6353:17, 6355:27,
6356:12, 6356:45,
6357:31, 6358:7,
6358:31, 6359:32,
6360:20, 6387:41,
6387:43, 6388:1,
6389:5, 6392:39
paragraphs [1] 6315:10
pardon [8] - 6345:31,
6373:23, 6388:10,
6388:43, 6390:6,
6390:20, 6391:8,
6391:16
parent [7] - 6358:28,
6358:29, 6359:26,
6359:31, 6359:46,
6370:19, 6376:15
parent's [1] - 6353:32
parents [21] - 6327:45,
6327:47, 6328:11,
6328:17, 6328:18,
6328:20, 6328:39,
6328:42, 6332:18,
6353:19, 6353:38,
6353:43, 6354:2,
6354:7, 6354:15,
6354:28, 6354:38,
6359:30, 6361:13,
6371:15, 6371:18
part [10] - 6322:18,
6326:36, 6353:25,
6367:21, 6371:2,
6374:12, 6378:11,
6378:25, 6378:43,
6389:22
partially [1] - 6380:30
participate [2] 6321:21, 6332:39
participated [1] 6374:10
participates [1] 6332:6
participating [2] 6333:1, 6335:17
particular [12] 6319:28, 6319:46,
6320:18, 6321:40,
6322:40, 6332:45,
6332:47, 6353:32,
6356:37, 6359:14,
6364:36, 6374:20
particularly [4] 6347:3, 6354:21,
6354:30, 6380:11
parties [1] - 6324:1
parts [2] - 6358:30,
6370:3
party [1] - 6366:22
passages [1] 6392:14
14
Transcript produced by Merrill Corporation
6323:43, 6324:8,
6334:2, 6335:9,
6345:40, 6349:44,
6349:45, 6349:46,
6350:34, 6351:2,
6351:4, 6353:16,
6355:29, 6357:42,
6358:29, 6363:6,
6368:7, 6369:15,
6378:12, 6379:3,
6379:14, 6379:24,
6385:20
personal [5] 6317:43, 6321:30,
6360:31, 6365:44,
6368:29
personally [3] 6317:42, 6370:7,
6380:21
persons [1] - 6329:35
perspective [1] 6379:11
persuasion [1] 6323:27
persuasive [1] 6389:42
phone [2] - 6357:46,
6359:16
phoney [1] - 6391:12
physical [2] - 6356:8,
6382:47
picture [1] - 6374:1
Pinchus [4] - 6314:6,
6314:10, 6314:16,
6341:17
PINCHUS [3] 6314:20, 6316:33,
6344:3
place [18] - 6320:20,
6327:27, 6328:5,
6328:15, 6328:34,
6341:24, 6342:18,
6342:26, 6346:33,
6346:36, 6347:2,
6359:13, 6361:8,
6380:2, 6381:46,
6385:45, 6388:36,
6389:47
placed [5] - 6342:17,
6354:41, 6357:11,
6364:32, 6375:22
places [3] - 6320:2,
6360:14, 6361:42
plan [1] - 6314:5
planning [1] - 6378:14
play [2] - 6344:20,
6355:10
plead [1] - 6364:21
pleaded [2] - 6363:39,
6364:38
.05/02/2015
6383:3, 6386:3,
6392:37, 6392:46
possibly [2] - 6338:45,
6346:10
potential [2] - 6369:9,
6379:33
power [12] - 6317:30,
6317:37, 6319:6,
6319:7, 6319:17,
6319:21, 6319:24,
6320:1, 6320:39,
6324:4, 6380:25,
6384:10
practical [2] 6319:10, 6324:30
practically [4] 6317:39, 6319:22,
6319:33, 6319:38
practice [1] - 6331:31
prayed [1] - 6355:12
pre-2003 [1] - 6326:1
precise [1] - 6346:46
precisely [3] 6371:37, 6381:47,
6386:20
preference [1] 6387:1
pregnant [1] - 6355:32
premises [8] 6326:40, 6328:27,
6328:31, 6329:33,
6330:9, 6330:28,
6330:30, 6330:35
prepare [5] - 6322:2,
6330:23, 6342:33,
6342:34, 6343:23
prepared [8] 6314:29, 6314:30,
6314:31, 6314:36,
6321:46, 6366:47,
6375:15, 6389:16
preparing [4] 6314:41, 6315:19,
6336:17, 6337:13
presence [1] 6357:26
present [5] - 6329:26,
6369:45, 6371:12,
6371:39, 6373:47
presented [1] - 6324:6
presenting [1] 6380:42
preserve [1] - 6349:45
Presiding [1] 6313:34
PRESIDING [21] 6314:1, 6314:13,
6315:47, 6316:6,
6316:31, 6343:43,
6344:5, 6347:37,
6348:25, 6348:36,
6381:13, 6386:29,
6387:34, 6391:44,
6392:1, 6392:5,
6393:17, 6393:22,
6393:36, 6394:4,
6394:11
press [2] - 6336:16,
6364:40
presume [1] - 6362:28
pretty [1] - 6358:20
prevent [3] - 6369:2,
6369:10, 6369:11
prevented [1] 6378:19
previous [6] 6351:46, 6351:47,
6356:9, 6369:45,
6373:45, 6384:42
previously [6] 6320:5, 6357:23,
6358:30, 6370:9,
6382:8, 6387:12
principal [6] 6327:19, 6327:21,
6345:23, 6362:1,
6369:24, 6381:2
principle [1] - 6364:36
problem [1] - 6352:31
problems [1] 6342:11
procedure [4] 6320:25, 6320:28,
6320:42, 6320:43
procedures [3] 6373:33, 6375:46,
6382:24
proceedings [3] 6365:35, 6366:22,
6380:6
process [32] 6320:10, 6320:24,
6320:32, 6320:34,
6320:44, 6321:4,
6321:6, 6321:9,
6321:14, 6321:15,
6321:21, 6322:15,
6322:23, 6323:3,
6323:17, 6323:41,
6324:10, 6324:20,
6325:4, 6337:32,
6363:6, 6364:35,
6369:36, 6369:41,
6371:2, 6373:12,
6376:20, 6376:39,
6377:39, 6379:13,
6379:27
processes [3] 6331:17, 6376:29,
6376:35
15
Transcript produced by Merrill Corporation
6375:26, 6381:24,
6383:28, 6387:18
provides [3] 6326:23, 6326:25,
6330:4
providing [3] 6333:18, 6383:9,
6387:26
provision [2] 6329:31, 6329:33
proximity [1] 6372:13
pseudonym [4] 6315:40, 6315:42,
6316:7
public [12] - 6313:14,
6357:40, 6363:44,
6364:3, 6364:11,
6366:12, 6384:34,
6385:39, 6387:12,
6389:30, 6389:43,
6390:45
publicly [4] - 6361:2,
6380:37, 6384:14,
6391:37
published [2] 6321:39, 6321:41
purchased [1] 6330:28
purport [1] - 6380:32
purpose [3] - 6315:32,
6321:18, 6372:4
purposes [3] 6326:29, 6345:42,
6372:1
pursue [1] - 6382:28
push [2] - 6351:29,
6351:32
put [7] - 6322:5,
6327:27, 6348:19,
6348:38, 6350:4,
6359:23, 6393:30
putting [3] - 6369:25,
6379:11, 6385:44
pyjama [1] - 6351:7
Q
qualification [6] 6319:43, 6385:2,
6392:31, 6392:32,
6393:10, 6393:11
qualifying [1] 6316:38
quality [1] - 6383:3
questioning [1] 6380:47
questions [22] 6316:36, 6317:12,
6317:31, 6318:34,
6319:11, 6325:43,
6325:44, 6329:14,
6331:16, 6332:10,
6332:16, 6340:9,
6341:41, 6343:5,
6344:8, 6361:45,
6373:8, 6379:38,
6386:24, 6386:39,
6391:42, 6392:3
quickly [3] - 6357:21,
6386:3, 6392:46
quiet [2] - 6355:29,
6356:16
quilt [4] - 6357:10,
6357:12, 6357:15,
6357:19
quite [12] - 6347:21,
6350:7, 6350:29,
6350:32, 6350:40,
6351:12, 6354:8,
6354:32, 6355:33,
6357:8, 6379:7,
6382:14
quote [1] - 6383:40
R
RABBI [3] - 6314:20,
6316:33, 6344:3
rabbi [99] - 6314:6,
6314:10, 6314:24,
6314:37, 6316:35,
6316:38, 6316:43,
6317:31, 6318:26,
6319:17, 6319:19,
6319:25, 6320:11,
6320:24, 6320:26,
6320:29, 6320:37,
6321:29, 6321:42,
6322:4, 6322:21,
6323:14, 6323:19,
6323:33, 6323:39,
6323:40, 6323:42,
6323:44, 6323:45,
6324:23, 6324:31,
6324:33, 6324:34,
6324:35, 6329:6,
6330:24, 6330:40,
6331:22, 6331:39,
6332:6, 6334:11,
6335:14, 6335:22,
6339:25, 6339:47,
6341:5, 6341:13,
6344:7, 6344:25,
6344:38, 6346:44,
6347:19, 6347:20,
6347:21, 6347:28,
6348:29, 6348:31,
6348:33, 6349:10,
6349:44, 6352:12,
6352:17, 6352:30,
.05/02/2015
6352:34, 6352:39,
6352:42, 6358:27,
6359:21, 6359:27,
6361:19, 6361:42,
6362:33, 6362:38,
6366:16, 6367:19,
6368:24, 6368:47,
6369:10, 6369:12,
6369:16, 6369:34,
6369:37, 6370:25,
6373:7, 6379:38,
6383:15, 6384:21,
6384:25, 6384:37,
6385:12, 6385:21,
6386:24, 6386:25,
6386:39, 6387:4,
6387:16, 6390:13
Rabbi [126] - 6314:7,
6314:15, 6314:16,
6315:47, 6336:10,
6336:12, 6336:18,
6336:20, 6336:23,
6336:26, 6336:28,
6337:2, 6338:2,
6338:7, 6338:34,
6339:23, 6339:36,
6340:1, 6340:2,
6340:32, 6341:9,
6341:15, 6341:17,
6341:29, 6341:36,
6342:10, 6342:39,
6342:44, 6342:45,
6343:5, 6343:6,
6343:13, 6343:27,
6343:43, 6344:9,
6344:30, 6345:30,
6347:42, 6347:43,
6348:1, 6348:2,
6348:31, 6348:39,
6349:2, 6349:10,
6349:13, 6349:20,
6349:26, 6349:28,
6352:11, 6353:7,
6353:8, 6353:10,
6353:15, 6354:42,
6355:17, 6355:20,
6355:42, 6358:4,
6358:10, 6358:41,
6359:7, 6359:8,
6359:12, 6359:17,
6360:18, 6360:24,
6360:35, 6360:42,
6360:46, 6361:14,
6361:39, 6361:44,
6362:3, 6362:29,
6364:6, 6364:20,
6366:40, 6366:45,
6367:5, 6367:7,
6367:15, 6367:26,
6368:43, 6370:21,
6370:39, 6370:47,
6374:6, 6375:46,
6376:34, 6378:1,
6379:1, 6379:44,
6384:21, 6384:22,
6385:34, 6386:12,
6386:15, 6386:29,
6386:30, 6386:41,
6387:1, 6387:25,
6387:30, 6387:38,
6388:1, 6388:21,
6388:33, 6389:9,
6389:10, 6389:12,
6389:15, 6389:38,
6390:12, 6390:13,
6390:23, 6390:26,
6391:42, 6392:10,
6392:11, 6392:39,
6393:19, 6393:22,
6393:44
rabbi's [3] - 6352:18,
6352:21, 6352:32
rabbinic [3] - 6320:15,
6320:18, 6324:12
Rabbinical [6] 6324:13, 6324:27,
6324:42, 6324:46,
6325:12, 6352:13
rabbinical [32] 6318:42, 6318:43,
6319:2, 6324:39,
6328:43, 6329:6,
6329:9, 6329:32,
6331:7, 6331:23,
6331:25, 6331:29,
6331:34, 6331:39,
6332:5, 6332:35,
6336:30, 6336:37,
6344:11, 6345:2,
6354:11, 6360:27,
6367:43, 6368:2,
6368:44, 6369:6,
6369:34, 6370:4,
6371:42, 6372:33,
6374:16, 6374:18
Rabbis [1] - 6365:15
rabbis [21] - 6324:14,
6324:25, 6325:1,
6328:43, 6329:6,
6329:8, 6329:32,
6330:18, 6331:23,
6331:25, 6333:4,
6336:41, 6354:17,
6354:18, 6363:22,
6363:27, 6363:32,
6365:4, 6368:1,
6390:39
race [2] - 6380:15,
6383:10
raise [3] - 6323:32,
6323:41, 6377:41
16
Transcript produced by Merrill Corporation
6368:44, 6369:1,
6373:14, 6378:13,
6378:38, 6382:30,
6391:3
receiving [2] 6380:31, 6384:25
recently [1] - 6382:30
recipients [1] 6383:12
recognised [2] 6320:6, 6360:47
recognising [1] 6320:1
recollection [18] 6319:33, 6333:47,
6334:3, 6335:35,
6340:17, 6340:25,
6341:8, 6341:42,
6342:41, 6343:32,
6344:22, 6346:13,
6346:28, 6347:6,
6361:28, 6370:35,
6373:11, 6374:41
recommendation [1] 6369:26
recommendations [1]
- 6368:10
recommended [1] 6370:8
recommends [1] 6368:25
record [5] - 6315:5,
6347:46, 6366:37,
6369:9, 6375:29
recorded [3] 6315:13, 6342:20,
6369:2
recording [2] 6362:26, 6372:2
records [7] - 6334:38,
6362:28, 6371:10,
6374:24, 6374:32,
6382:16
recruiting [1] - 6368:7
redacted [40] 6315:39, 6340:12,
6340:22, 6349:45,
6350:16, 6350:44,
6351:40, 6351:45,
6352:18, 6353:16,
6354:26, 6355:31,
6355:36, 6355:40,
6356:26, 6358:33,
6358:34, 6358:39,
6358:40, 6358:42,
6358:45, 6358:47,
6359:4, 6359:13,
6359:15, 6359:17,
6359:31, 6359:34,
6359:44, 6360:2,
6360:13, 6360:15,
6360:16, 6360:37,
6360:39, 6360:44,
6361:7, 6381:11,
6381:18
redacted's [1] 6360:28
redacted] [6] 6350:17, 6350:21,
6350:24, 6354:46,
6357:42, 6359:15
redactions [2] 6316:1, 6316:6
redress [1] - 6387:8
refer [10] - 6315:41,
6320:10, 6322:40,
6330:29, 6382:40,
6388:1, 6390:5,
6390:8, 6390:18,
6390:22
reference [4] - 6315:2,
6369:16, 6369:23,
6392:36
referred [5] - 6316:8,
6322:23, 6322:35,
6322:39, 6380:29
referring [9] 6315:15, 6315:40,
6316:3, 6319:40,
6333:38, 6338:20,
6338:31, 6364:7,
6367:14
refers [1] - 6328:27
refresh [3] - 6343:23,
6344:22, 6390:24
refreshed [1] 6343:34
refusing [1] - 6360:43
regard [5] - 6337:27,
6342:22, 6347:3,
6347:4, 6365:7
regarding [1] 6388:35
regardless [2] 6381:35, 6383:10
regimes [1] - 6381:47
registration [2] 6329:37, 6329:38
regulate [1] - 6342:18
reiterate [1] - 6384:7
relate [1] - 6355:23
relating [10] - 6318:12,
6322:47, 6345:41,
6347:6, 6366:36,
6366:43, 6371:41,
6372:22, 6372:35,
6381:45
relation [19] - 6331:10,
6332:4, 6336:20,
6336:33, 6339:14,
.05/02/2015
6344:15, 6356:37,
6364:3, 6364:31,
6365:37, 6372:40,
6376:30, 6377:29,
6379:40, 6385:22,
6386:18, 6387:29,
6387:30, 6394:1
relationship [5] 6322:32, 6325:18,
6354:13, 6360:30,
6369:5
relationships [2] 6325:24, 6356:9
release [4] - 6364:5,
6364:6, 6364:7,
6365:11
released [1] - 6357:18
relevant [4] - 6362:17,
6371:6, 6377:40,
6382:21
relief [1] - 6322:28
religion [3] - 6353:29,
6380:15, 6383:11
religious [24] 6326:23, 6326:24,
6327:4, 6327:46,
6328:3, 6328:5,
6328:15, 6328:36,
6328:42, 6328:44,
6329:30, 6329:44,
6330:5, 6331:24,
6333:12, 6333:44,
6333:45, 6367:37,
6388:30, 6392:44,
6393:1
remain [5] - 6317:18,
6318:29, 6318:33,
6330:42, 6330:46
remained [1] - 6333:5
remains [2] - 6386:20,
6389:35
remember [17] 6325:6, 6338:21,
6338:31, 6340:14,
6340:15, 6340:27,
6340:29, 6341:10,
6341:24, 6341:40,
6352:25, 6353:42,
6355:29, 6356:19,
6356:25, 6356:29,
6357:38
remind [1] - 6392:14
reminded [1] 6316:17
remotely [1] - 6356:7
repeat [1] - 6323:36
repeating [1] 6377:18
repentance [1] 6383:37
6313:9
responsibilities [1] 6326:18
responsibility [5] 6330:40, 6334:7,
6361:1, 6362:11,
6379:18
responsible [8] 6327:2, 6345:40,
6348:10, 6362:1,
6368:7, 6371:4,
6371:5, 6391:26
rest [2] - 6367:5,
6372:44
resting [1] - 6351:22
result [7] - 6314:44,
6320:4, 6341:40,
6348:18, 6361:20,
6371:32, 6376:27
retain [2] - 6319:6,
6319:7
retrospect [1] 6378:41
return [2] - 6343:44,
6375:3
returned [3] - 6315:29,
6316:14, 6352:46
reveal [1] - 6374:37
revealed [1] - 6383:30
revelation [1] 6367:15
reviewed [1] - 6315:12
Richards [2] 6387:34, 6387:38
RICHARDS [2] 6387:36, 6387:38
right-hand [1] 6351:11
ring [2] - 6358:20,
6377:43
ringing [1] - 6356:23
rise [1] - 6393:29
risk [1] - 6374:2
road [1] - 6357:41
Robert [2] - 6313:35,
6350:22
role [26] - 6317:6,
6324:26, 6324:27,
6327:28, 6327:35,
6329:25, 6331:10,
6334:2, 6334:29,
6334:39, 6336:33,
6336:35, 6337:2,
6344:10, 6344:15,
6344:20, 6345:9,
6345:13, 6348:32,
6355:10, 6378:7,
6380:39, 6390:29,
6390:40, 6390:42,
6391:38
17
Transcript produced by Merrill Corporation
S
Sabbath [1] - 6356:2
sacrosanct [1] 6381:34
safe [1] - 6365:42
safer [1] - 6384:19
safety [1] - 6380:1
sanction [2] - 6319:8,
6319:19
sanctioned [1] 6333:24
satisfied [2] 6327:45, 6369:28
save [2] - 6316:25,
6393:33
saw [2] - 6358:10,
6364:39
scared [1] - 6357:36
scars [1] - 6382:46
scene [2] - 6381:5,
6381:14
scenes [1] - 6326:45
school [65] - 6317:2,
6326:5, 6326:16,
6326:20, 6326:22,
6326:23, 6326:26,
6326:34, 6327:2,
6327:6, 6327:7,
6327:13, 6327:19,
6327:37, 6328:1,
6328:8, 6330:4,
6330:35, 6331:17,
6331:18, 6331:24,
6331:35, 6332:35,
6332:40, 6333:11,
6333:12, 6333:25,
6336:34, 6336:35,
6337:8, 6341:46,
6342:22, 6344:10,
6344:42, 6345:1,
6348:9, 6348:10,
6350:17, 6355:45,
6357:33, 6357:39,
6358:17, 6358:19,
6358:38, 6358:47,
6362:1, 6367:29,
6367:36, 6367:43,
6370:26, 6372:3,
6372:35, 6372:37,
6375:8, 6380:42,
6380:43, 6380:47,
6381:3, 6381:26,
6381:39, 6382:19,
6382:23, 6390:42
School [1] - 6326:17
schooled [3] - 6328:4,
6329:45, 6329:47
schooling [5] 6327:43, 6328:10,
6354:24, 6360:4,
6360:29
schools [4] - 6326:4,
6326:21, 6326:22,
6378:17
Schools [1] - 6375:23
scourge [2] - 6366:5,
6380:14
screen [3] - 6347:29,
6350:4, 6387:45
screening [2] 6368:3, 6368:33
scroll [3] - 6345:28,
6347:41, 6359:42
searches [1] - 6362:16
seated [2] - 6357:3,
6357:23
second [7] - 6314:30,
6314:35, 6316:26,
6346:26, 6350:36,
6355:27, 6376:14
secondary [1] 6360:4
secondly [2] 6385:19, 6387:29
seconds [1] - 6357:15
.05/02/2015
6329:1, 6332:34,
6334:25, 6354:21,
6387:18
servitude [1] 6383:44
set [4] - 6318:23,
6329:39, 6332:14,
6371:29
sets [3] - 6322:8,
6369:42, 6386:6
settled [1] - 6354:2
seven [1] - 6350:31
seventh [1] - 6353:27
several [3] - 6339:41,
6357:15, 6358:10
severe [1] - 6380:45
sex [1] - 6392:23
SEXUAL [1] - 6313:9
sexual [35] - 6337:7,
6337:32, 6349:12,
6349:27, 6356:7,
6361:15, 6361:20,
6363:11, 6363:15,
6363:24, 6363:29,
6365:5, 6365:19,
6365:26, 6365:32,
6365:38, 6366:6,
6369:11, 6369:35,
6371:44, 6372:12,
6372:27, 6372:32,
6378:13, 6379:23,
6382:20, 6382:31,
6384:24, 6385:26,
6386:8, 6386:12,
6387:19, 6389:34,
6391:33, 6392:46
sexuality [1] - 6369:14
sexually [3] - 6339:15,
6377:44, 6389:27
Shabbat [1] - 6350:15
shabbos [1] - 6356:3
shakes [1] - 6336:43
shape [2] - 6346:41,
6380:10
share [3] - 6332:44,
6383:45, 6391:27
shared [1] - 6371:14
sharing [1] - 6380:37
shelter [1] - 6383:9
shirk [1] - 6381:20
shirt [1] - 6351:7
shocked [1] - 6356:29
SHORT [1] - 6386:36
short [6] - 6351:18,
6355:4, 6361:42,
6386:31, 6386:34
shortly [3] - 6370:29,
6381:22, 6386:40
Shortly [1] - 6339:36
shouting [1] - 6381:15
18
Transcript produced by Merrill Corporation
6320:44, 6321:39,
6322:12, 6322:33,
6322:47, 6323:17,
6323:25, 6323:32,
6324:27, 6324:42,
6324:46, 6325:5,
6325:12, 6325:16,
6325:27, 6327:16,
6344:35, 6374:20,
6379:43, 6380:18,
6384:9, 6384:16,
6384:43, 6385:14,
6385:37, 6385:42,
6386:1, 6386:9,
6386:19, 6387:28
south [3] - 6353:46,
6354:19, 6374:12
speaking [10] 6314:26, 6339:37,
6340:36, 6341:9,
6341:43, 6342:8,
6344:39, 6344:47,
6347:5, 6368:4
special [1] - 6389:23
specific [6] - 6329:13,
6341:11, 6347:22,
6349:30, 6362:41,
6371:41
specifically [1] 6371:4
specifics [2] 6338:31, 6346:31
specify [1] - 6339:11
spell [1] - 6334:13
spent [2] - 6326:35,
6326:36
spiritual [18] 6316:43, 6317:12,
6317:31, 6318:33,
6318:41, 6318:43,
6319:2, 6324:4,
6327:17, 6327:18,
6327:22, 6330:46,
6331:3, 6331:11,
6341:47, 6380:40,
6382:40, 6391:34
split [1] - 6326:42
spoken [5] - 6336:26,
6337:12, 6341:37,
6346:9, 6346:10
sponsored [1] 6382:4
spreading [1] - 6366:3
staff [8] - 6329:1,
6329:31, 6333:17,
6348:11, 6349:34,
6349:37, 6380:44,
6381:1
stage [5] - 6325:11,
6331:45, 6336:12,
.05/02/2015
6364:11, 6371:19
standing [2] 6368:13, 6368:28
start [5] - 6321:6,
6360:5, 6363:18,
6370:5, 6379:45
started [7] - 6335:39,
6351:30, 6353:44,
6360:6, 6380:39,
6380:47, 6383:18
starting [1] - 6353:43
STAT.0449.001.0025
[1] - 6364:5
state [7] - 6318:3,
6318:30, 6357:7,
6382:4, 6382:37,
6384:14, 6384:21
state-sponsored [1] 6382:4
statement [74] 6314:16, 6314:35,
6314:36, 6315:9,
6315:24, 6315:38,
6316:1, 6316:2,
6316:14, 6316:26,
6316:37, 6327:26,
6327:42, 6330:27,
6330:39, 6331:16,
6332:14, 6334:4,
6336:8, 6337:17,
6337:27, 6341:36,
6342:33, 6342:35,
6349:44, 6353:15,
6355:23, 6357:46,
6358:28, 6358:30,
6359:26, 6359:28,
6359:29, 6359:30,
6359:37, 6359:41,
6359:47, 6362:33,
6364:1, 6364:3,
6364:11, 6366:12,
6366:35, 6366:42,
6366:45, 6366:47,
6367:8, 6367:10,
6367:14, 6368:1,
6370:2, 6377:28,
6379:42, 6379:44,
6385:5, 6385:36,
6385:38, 6385:39,
6387:12, 6387:41,
6389:44, 6389:45,
6390:18, 6390:22,
6390:26, 6391:19,
6392:18, 6392:25,
6392:34, 6392:40,
6393:4
STATEMENTS [2] 6316:33, 6394:6
statements [10] 6314:29, 6314:38,
6314:43, 6316:29,
6321:47, 6361:12,
6365:6, 6365:9,
6366:46, 6393:47
States [5] - 6315:30,
6316:15, 6316:18,
6316:22, 6352:45
station [1] - 6381:23
stay [16] - 6336:2,
6338:10, 6338:38,
6338:41, 6338:46,
6341:37, 6350:21,
6350:23, 6351:12,
6355:43, 6360:15,
6360:40, 6376:40,
6377:18, 6377:24,
6387:1
stayed [2] - 6350:34,
6350:35
staying [3] - 6341:6,
6347:44, 6350:44
STCA [8] - 6326:3,
6329:18, 6329:22,
6329:25, 6330:14,
6330:33, 6367:39,
6367:42
steer [1] - 6366:2
step [3] - 6319:44,
6321:35, 6365:43
steps [5] - 6315:5,
6321:29, 6322:21,
6322:22, 6342:28
still [8] - 6328:23,
6329:18, 6331:31,
6351:12, 6355:31,
6370:1, 6383:15,
6390:10
stilling [1] - 6379:25
stood [1] - 6357:19
stop [8] - 6323:14,
6323:19, 6336:25,
6336:27, 6337:13,
6355:17, 6377:42
story [2] - 6358:14,
6358:15
street [1] - 6353:40
Street [7] - 6313:20,
6317:3, 6328:32,
6330:10, 6330:30,
6330:36, 6352:14
strength [2] - 6319:12,
6365:22
Strickland [1] 6391:44
STRICKLAND [2] 6391:46, 6392:36
stroking [1] - 6359:20
strong [2] - 6361:34,
6366:35
stronger [1] - 6366:31
19
Transcript produced by Merrill Corporation
6368:40
submission [1] 6348:21
submit [3] - 6321:8,
6321:13, 6321:14
submitting [1] 6322:16
subsequent [3] 6317:16, 6318:13,
6381:43
subsequently [2] 6329:12, 6375:39
substance [2] 6373:17, 6373:28
substantial [1] 6381:29
succeeded [1] 6369:30
suffer [3] - 6380:10,
6380:22, 6382:47
suffered [5] - 6380:20,
6381:16, 6384:8,
6384:12, 6387:19
suffering [3] - 6380:8,
6380:26, 6380:33
suffers [1] - 6391:38
sufficient [2] 6329:35, 6384:24
sufficiently [1] 6328:6
suggest [4] - 6319:35,
6339:47, 6352:36,
6393:1
suggested [3] 6349:26, 6351:42,
6352:35
suggesting [1] 6361:14
suggestion [7] 6335:47, 6363:30,
6378:28, 6378:36,
6384:36, 6384:42,
6384:44
suggestions [1] 6343:32
suitabilities [1] 6368:18
suitability [2] 6368:12, 6368:29
suitable [2] - 6368:10,
6368:11
sum [1] - 6335:24
summarise [1] 6357:32
summer [1] - 6359:2
summons [1] 6362:15
summonses [1] 6362:22
supplementary [1] -
6387:41
supplies [2] - 6334:1
support [8] - 6383:2,
6383:10, 6383:31,
6384:11, 6389:39,
6389:44, 6390:46,
6391:1
supporters [1] 6391:39
supporting [1] 6366:33
supportive [2] 6324:35, 6383:25
suppose [4] 6362:19, 6363:2,
6368:12, 6378:26
Supreme [2] - 6325:27
survivor [1] - 6381:17
survivors [2] 6381:30, 6381:43
suspended [2] 6363:43, 6365:13
Sydney [31] - 6322:22,
6324:14, 6324:28,
6324:39, 6325:35,
6325:36, 6325:38,
6326:1, 6326:2,
6329:8, 6332:27,
6344:33, 6352:13,
6354:8, 6358:35,
6358:38, 6358:45,
6360:22, 6365:18,
6368:8, 6368:11,
6377:1, 6380:40,
6382:10, 6382:19,
6382:26, 6383:7,
6383:18, 6383:29,
6388:6, 6390:41
Synagogue [1] 6374:21
synagogue [8] 6323:39, 6323:47,
6336:45, 6350:19,
6353:1, 6353:41,
6354:34, 6374:12
synagogues [3] 6353:47, 6374:19,
6383:41
systems [1] - 6320:32
T
t-shirt [1] - 6351:7
tab [3] - 6337:34,
6343:26, 6373:5
table [5] - 6314:16,
6349:42, 6353:14,
6358:27, 6386:33
tabs [2] - 6393:33,
6393:37
.05/02/2015
20
Transcript produced by Merrill Corporation
6367:6
tumultuous [1] 6365:30
turning [1] - 6356:30
Tuvel [1] - 6359:9
twenties [1] - 6350:27
twice [2] - 6359:38,
6388:47
two [14] - 6314:29,
6316:29, 6326:3,
6326:16, 6326:19,
6326:25, 6326:46,
6356:26, 6364:42,
6380:39, 6388:6,
6388:27, 6388:39,
6390:39
TWO [1] - 6316:33
type [5] - 6321:3,
6333:45, 6334:2,
6334:7, 6369:14
types [1] - 6391:2
U
ultimate [1] - 6320:1
ultimately [5] 6320:35, 6320:45,
6321:31, 6363:39,
6368:46
umbrella [1] - 6319:16
unable [1] - 6380:5
uncomfortable [1] 6351:35
uncontrollable [1] 6381:1
under [11] - 6318:24,
6318:35, 6330:39,
6354:9, 6354:41,
6362:7, 6365:34,
6376:29, 6377:10,
6380:17, 6381:35
undergone [1] 6363:14
underneath [1] 6351:19
understood [10] 6348:36, 6348:40,
6350:18, 6350:27,
6364:42, 6370:45,
6370:47, 6376:27,
6377:23, 6378:1
undertake [10] 6320:34, 6321:35,
6325:32, 6331:24,
6363:23, 6368:2,
6370:6, 6385:44,
6386:5, 6393:29
undertaken [10] 6320:11, 6320:25,
6322:24, 6333:10,
6366:27, 6367:27,
6368:3, 6369:41,
6376:36, 6387:16
undertaking [1] 6333:17
unfold [1] - 6379:13
unfortunately [1] 6382:8
uniform [1] - 6357:33
unique [1] - 6382:9
unit [2] - 6350:23,
6350:34
United [5] - 6315:30,
6316:15, 6316:18,
6316:22, 6352:44
university [1] 6350:28
unless [2] - 6314:9,
6342:11
unlock [1] - 6383:43
untie [1] - 6383:43
unwanted [1] 6335:28
up [32] - 6315:38,
6318:23, 6321:7,
6325:37, 6329:39,
6337:35, 6340:7,
6347:31, 6349:4,
6349:43, 6350:6,
6351:19, 6353:13,
6353:27, 6353:28,
6354:47, 6356:16,
6357:10, 6357:13,
6357:19, 6358:25,
6359:20, 6359:22,
6360:33, 6364:4,
6366:42, 6371:29,
6373:5, 6376:41,
6387:45, 6389:6
upbringing [1] 6355:35
updated [1] - 6393:44
upheld [1] - 6380:3
V
vacated [1] - 6375:41
vague [4] - 6341:8,
6341:42, 6346:13,
6346:32
vaguely [1] - 6353:41
validity [2] - 6320:22,
6379:36
various [14] - 6315:10,
6325:32, 6327:27,
6332:14, 6333:11,
6337:32, 6355:47,
6360:14, 6367:27,
6367:39, 6376:24,
6379:39, 6381:32,
.05/02/2015
6393:47
verse [2] - 6325:6,
6389:12
vesting [1] - 6330:40
Vic [1] - 6365:35
victim [12] - 6335:30,
6337:36, 6353:8,
6358:28, 6359:46,
6361:13, 6365:38,
6388:1, 6389:34,
6391:11, 6391:32,
6391:38
victims [18] - 6352:11,
6352:25, 6365:21,
6365:24, 6365:42,
6366:32, 6366:33,
6380:9, 6380:20,
6380:28, 6383:22,
6383:27, 6384:7,
6385:26, 6387:7,
6387:13, 6387:17,
6393:47
Victoria [2] - 6313:19,
6325:28
view [4] - 6321:16,
6321:23, 6348:18,
6384:46
views [2] - 6391:27
violently [1] - 6380:47
visibly [1] - 6374:27
visit [1] - 6354:19
volunteer [2] 6335:18, 6352:15
volunteers [1] 6333:18
vow [1] - 6384:10
vulnerable [4] 6363:2, 6363:7,
6380:3, 6383:6
W
wagon [2] - 6381:4,
6381:15
waited [1] - 6358:9
wake [1] - 6356:16
Waks [11] - 6387:39,
6388:2, 6388:5,
6388:27, 6389:5,
6389:17, 6389:35,
6390:46, 6391:6,
6391:10
Wales [47] - 6314:25,
6316:39, 6316:40,
6316:44, 6317:1,
6317:8, 6317:11,
6317:13, 6317:20,
6318:3, 6318:30,
6318:34, 6319:9,
6319:15, 6319:45,
6320:26, 6320:27,
6320:44, 6321:39,
6322:12, 6322:33,
6322:47, 6323:18,
6323:25, 6323:32,
6324:28, 6324:43,
6324:46, 6325:5,
6325:12, 6325:17,
6325:27, 6327:17,
6344:35, 6379:43,
6380:18, 6384:9,
6384:16, 6384:43,
6385:14, 6385:37,
6385:42, 6386:1,
6386:9, 6386:20,
6387:28
walk [2] - 6355:45,
6356:24
walked [4] - 6357:19,
6357:28, 6357:40,
6358:9
wall [2] - 6357:1,
6357:2
wants [2] - 6377:17,
6377:18
WAS [1] - 6394:14
watch [4] - 6357:38,
6362:7, 6381:5,
6381:14
watching [1] 6385:40
water [4] - 6350:41,
6350:45, 6351:1,
6351:13
wearing [1] - 6351:7
week [1] - 6373:45
weekends [1] - 6356:2
welcome [1] - 6383:45
whatsoever [1] 6392:22
whereby [2] - 6330:33,
6379:13
whilst [4] - 6322:28,
6337:3, 6380:14,
6380:16
whole [6] - 6326:41,
6333:5, 6345:42,
6356:32, 6357:6,
6393:32
wickedness [1] 6383:43
wife [8] - 6339:44,
6390:15, 6390:16,
6390:18, 6390:22,
6390:32, 6390:40,
6391:23
William [1] - 6313:20
wiry [1] - 6351:26
wish [6] - 6314:42,
6316:15, 6316:21,
6316:26, 6379:41,
6387:7
wished [2] - 6323:32,
6378:3
wishes [2] - 6330:21,
6384:29
withdraw [1] 6339:36
WITHDREW [2] 6343:46, 6393:26
Witness [11] 6316:19, 6325:22,
6326:43, 6328:21,
6333:31, 6334:20,
6336:31, 6344:12,
6355:25, 6372:5,
6376:16
witness [5] - 6336:18,
6336:43, 6348:28,
6348:37, 6358:29
WITNESS [2] 6343:46, 6393:26
witness's [1] 6359:32
witnesses [1] 6393:47
woke [1] - 6351:19
woken [1] - 6359:19
Wollongong [1] 6350:28
wonder [1] - 6392:14
wondering [1] 6366:25
word [1] - 6321:8
words [9] - 6333:8,
6351:41, 6352:22,
6352:30, 6360:36,
6371:1, 6388:29,
6391:15, 6391:18
wore [2] - 6355:6,
6355:30
workable [1] 6381:27
works [1] - 6324:33
world [2] - 6334:16,
6383:41
worldwide [1] 6322:36
worrying [3] 6321:22, 6321:24
worst [1] - 6348:17
worthwhile [1] 6343:34
wrangling [1] 6393:31
writing [1] - 6342:30
written [1] - 6362:30
wrote [3] - 6315:29,
6334:4, 6361:33
21
Transcript produced by Merrill Corporation
Y
year [7] - 6342:38,
6342:45, 6350:2,
6350:13, 6353:20,
6360:5, 6360:6
years [24] - 6319:47,
6320:47, 6321:11,
6321:46, 6323:47,
6325:7, 6335:41,
6337:44, 6338:30,
6353:40, 6354:28,
6354:42, 6357:43,
6358:33, 6360:3,
6380:38, 6380:39,
6383:7, 6383:13,
6383:18, 6383:29,
6386:14, 6389:9
Yeshiva [141] - 6317:2,
6318:17, 6318:44,
6325:17, 6325:18,
6325:42, 6326:1,
6326:4, 6326:5,
6326:8, 6326:10,
6326:17, 6327:7,
6327:9, 6327:17,
6327:22, 6327:28,
6327:32, 6327:34,
6327:37, 6328:5,
6328:15, 6328:20,
6328:27, 6328:28,
6328:35, 6328:44,
6329:16, 6329:18,
6329:19, 6329:29,
6329:31, 6329:39,
6329:43, 6330:3,
6330:9, 6330:13,
6330:16, 6330:34,
6330:35, 6330:42,
6330:43, 6331:3,
6331:10, 6331:17,
6331:18, 6331:20,
6331:40, 6332:34,
6333:3, 6333:10,
6333:16, 6333:24,
6335:9, 6335:11,
6335:17, 6335:18,
6335:34, 6335:40,
6336:13, 6336:29,
6336:33, 6336:46,
6337:3, 6339:28,
6342:8, 6342:10,
6342:23, 6342:27,
6344:10, 6344:15,
6344:21, 6345:5,
6345:6, 6345:10,
6345:13, 6345:19,
6345:23, 6348:3,
6348:30, 6352:14,
6354:14, 6354:15,
6354:18, 6354:27,
6354:31, 6354:33,
6354:34, 6354:37,
6354:38, 6354:39,
6355:2, 6355:10,
6358:9, 6358:35,
6358:37, 6359:35,
6360:2, 6360:29,
6361:3, 6361:19,
6362:27, 6363:23,
6363:44, 6364:8,
6364:23, 6364:26,
6364:44, 6366:12,
6366:20, 6367:28,
6367:38, 6372:3,
6372:4, 6372:23,
6374:12, 6380:40,
6381:29, 6382:9,
6382:19, 6382:30,
6382:40, 6383:7,
6383:15, 6383:18,
6383:29, 6384:9,
6387:6, 6387:16,
6387:22, 6388:6,
6388:28, 6389:17,
6389:21, 6390:16,
6390:41
Yeshivah [1] 6325:18
yesterday [4] 6367:1, 6368:43,
6369:1, 6392:11
Yom [2] - 6383:36,
6383:41
York [16] - 6319:47,
6320:2, 6320:14,
6322:29, 6322:33,
6322:34, 6322:39,
6322:40, 6322:41,
6323:5, 6323:23,
6323:24, 6352:44,
6387:26
Yosef [6] - 6314:7,
6367:15, 6376:8,
6377:29, 6390:12,
6390:13
young [10] - 6337:36,
6339:15, 6340:1,
6342:14, 6342:19,
6347:2, 6347:44,
6361:42, 6364:32,
6383:33
younger [11] - 6336:2,
6337:39, 6337:44,
6339:5, 6339:25,
6339:28, 6341:32,
6341:38, 6342:29,
6344:31, 6352:7
youngster [1] 6332:45
.05/02/2015
Z
Zeb [2] - 6371:14,
6371:30
Zephaniah [1] 6387:39
Zion [2] - 6353:47,
6354:20
ZS [4] - 6373:46,
6374:39, 6374:45,
6375:1
22
Transcript produced by Merrill Corporation