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IN THE CHANCERY COURT OF MARION COUNTY, MS

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RAVEN SKYE BOYD

PETITIONER
NO. 2006-0136-G

VS,

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MICHAEL T. BOYD

RESPONDENT

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THE FOLLOWING IS A TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS HELD


ON AUGUST 16, 2011, BEFORE THE HONORABLE DEBORAH
J. GAMBRELL, CHANCELLOR, STATE OF MISSISSIPPI

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REPORTED BY:

Patsy Ainsworth Young, CSR

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PATSY AINSWORTH, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Direct - Wanda Phil l ips


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Page 244

year .

THE COURT: I have that down, wanted to


draw house, because cousin draws and you have the
suppl ies , bu t we ' ve got t o get to re l evance of the
termination. The Supreme Court has basically set
up the guidelines as to what it takes to terminate
parental rights, and that is what we need to stick

with .

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MR. IGNATI EV:

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Your Honor, I am getting

there.
Q.

What did Harley draw and write after she

received these art suppl i es?


She drew pictures of what she said was
A.
her dad and pictures of herself, pictures of the
house. She laid out the whole floor plan and she
had not been there in nearly three years. She was
able to lay the floor plan out. She drew the

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singing deer. She sang the song that the Singing


deer sang, Sweet Home Alabama. She started about
dinner time and drew on that unt il a l most 10:30 at
night and I made her go to bed.
Wha t else is contained in these
Q.

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drawings?

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A.

She tal ked about having sex with her

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daddy.

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MS. BALDWI N: Object i on, Your Honor , a nd


move to strike unless that is produced or
something. There is no foundation.
THE COURT: That is drawn on a piece of

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PATSY AINSWORTH, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Direct - Wanda Phillips


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Page 245

paper?

THE WITNESS:

I do have that here.

MS. BALDWIN:

That has not been produced

to counsel.

THE COURT:

Has that been produced?

MR. IGNATIEV:

Your Honor, an electronic

copy was provided to the GAL.

get that printed out.

THE COURT:
THE WITNESS:

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I was not able to

What are we talking about?


I took a copy of it to the

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district attorney, and the district attorney said

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take it to counsel, and I took it to the GAL's


THE COURT:

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Is that what you took to the

district attorney down in Louisiana?


A.

I have not taken nothing to anybody in

Louisiana.
THE COURT:

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THE WITNESS:
THE COURT:
THE WITNESS:

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When was that?


To Hal Kittrell.
When was that, ma'am?
The middle of July.

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took it to the GAL; I don't know if that's the GAL

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or not.
MR. JOHNSON:

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Mrs. Phillips came to my

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office one day when I was not present, with one of

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the children, according to my staff, and had two

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books that she wanted to go over with my

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secretary.

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THE COURT:

Where are the children that

are in the middle of this?


PATSY AINSWORTH, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Direct - Wanda Phillips


MR. IGNATIEV:

Page 246

They are in school, Your

Honor.

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THE COURT: They need to be here,


because obvious ly I have heard -- I have been
sitting here half the day and I have heard s o many
different things that I could probably -- why
weren't the children brought here?
MR. IGNATIEV: Your Honor, they are both
under the age of ten, and the GAL said that he did
not feel it was appropriate to interview them due
to their suggestibility.
THE COURT: Based on what we are having
here, what you are putting before me, if everybody
else is interviewing them and making decisions,
and the person that has got to make the final
decision that he will get to see the children
MR . JOHNSON: I have not seen the books
that she is referencing.
THE COURT: Whatever it is that you are
all trying to testify from needs to be marked for
identification purposes and then we don't have the
author of the documents and Mr. Kittrell's office
-- let's go on.
What was the ob jection? Do we
have the drawings?
MR. IGNATIEV: We do have a copy of

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them, Your Honor, I believe.

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THE COURT: You need to try to -- do you


have them, Mr. Johnson?
MR . JOHNSON : No, ma' a m.

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PATSY AINSWORTH, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Direct - Wanda Phillips


MS. BALDWIN:

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Neither have I , Your

Honor.
THE COURT:

Wel l , why are we trying a

case when everything that is offered has not been


exchanged between the parties? You know that is
what the rules say.
MR. I GNATIEV: Your Honor, my
understanding was this was provided to the GAL and
at that point - - I apologize .
MS. BALDWIN: Your Honor, my
understanding is -THE WITNESS : I took the granddaughter
and the book over to the GAL's office, and I took
a thumb drive and put i t in his computer and it is
on the desktop of the secretary's computer.
THE COURT: That may be fine, but based
on the rul es of law that we have to go by between
attorneys and judges and all of these people
sitting out there - - where is my rule book? There
is a book that tells lawyers that when you plan to
offer something, you have to give it to the other
side prior to.
The GAL is an investigatory arm of the
Cour t that has been appointed pursuant to this
law; this case that has been attached to this
Louisiana petition. Do you follow me?
THE WITNESS: Yes, ma'am . I agree.
THE COURT: He is not involved in this.
There are rules that say if Ms . Baldwin plans to
PATSY AINSWORTH, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Direct - Wanda Phillips

Page 248

offer something to help her client or to hurt

Mr. Ignatiev's client, it has to be given.

follow me?
I do follow you.

THE WITNESS:

Do you
I have

been researching the law; I know that is supposed

to happen.
THE COURT:

not.

with this evidence.

Well, it didn't and it has

So the Court now has to decide what to do


MR. IGNATIEV:

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I apologize, Your Honor,

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the procedural posture of this case has been all

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screwed up and I have not been on the ball .


THE COURT:

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I agree, but can you give it

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to her now, and we can go on and keep testifying

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and come back to it later.


MS. BALDWIN:

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Your Honor, I would make

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an offer of proof on that document, pictures.

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Certainly an objection .

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an offer of proof, that Wanda Phillips took that

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to Hal Kittrell and discussed the matter with Hal

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Kittrell, and there was no proceeding.

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Johnson -- everyone was somewhat aware of these

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pictures .

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author is not here, the validity, the undue

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influence it may have caused them, my

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understanding is that Mrs. Wanda Phillips

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this is of course my offer of proof -- Ms.

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Phillips actually had Harley do a good daddy book

But I would like to make

Also Jim

As you say, where they came from, the

and a bad daddy book while -PATSY AINSWORTH, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

and

Direct - Wanda Phillips


THE COURT:

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MS. BALDWIN:

She has got them; I have

heard about them; I have not seen them.

THE COURT:

books and the bad daddy books?

THE WITNESS:

THE COURT:

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Can I have the good daddy


I don't have them.
Who has the good daddy

books?
THE WITNESS:

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I gave them to my

daughter.

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THE COURT:

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RAVEN MAURER:

Where are they?


I did n o t bring the

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originals with me because it seems l ike the

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originals--

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THE WITNESS:

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THE COURT:

MS. BALDWIN:
THE COURT:

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Did you give the good daddy

books / bad daddy books to Mr. Kittrell?


THE WITNESS:

On the thumb drive,

electronic into the computer.


MS. BALDWIN:

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I don't know, Your Honor;

. I have just heard about all of this stuff.

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Did you give that to

Mr. Kittrell?

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We have had evidence

disappear.

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Where are the good daddy

books and bad daddy books?

Page 249

They will proceed in that

action -THE COURT:

They are not going to if

they don't have an original document .

That means

PATSY AINSWORTH, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Direct - Wanda Phillips


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Page 250

we don't have these things so we are not going to


listen to testimony if I don't have them.
MS. BALDWIN: That is what I would ask,
Your Honor.
THE COURT:

I can't.

The rules of

evidence say that I can't.


MR. IGNATIEV: We do have a copy here,

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it's my understanding.
THE COURT: That is what I asked ten
minutes ago. If you have got it, give each party
a copy and let me review it before I let anybody

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testify.

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MR. IGNATIEV: Excuse my client to go


and get it; she has got them.
THE COURT: Let me explain. A Court
needs all of the evidence before it to make
decisions; that is what all of you are so
eloquently telling me. But I don't have it, and
that is what I am here for today. Everything that
is planned to be offered should be here in this
courtroom. If you have gone to see the DA, I have
known Mr. Kittrell for years. And he is
fastidious with preparing cases for minor children
that have been abused, and he will go beyond the
call of duty to get everything. It should be
here; the authors of all the documents need to be
here, but they are not. So tell me what it is you
got before I release Mrs. Maurer to get them?
What else do you plan to offer that
PATSY AINSWORTH, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Direct - Wanda Phillips


MR. IGNATIEV:

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Your Honor, that is the

only thing.
THE COURT: We will take a two-minute
break and go forward. Y'all were not pr epared to

try this .

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MS. BALDWIN:

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No, we were prepared; we

are prepared to go forward on this. We were not


provided all of the documents, and that is why I

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keep objecting.
THE COURT: I understand. The laws of
this land do not allow you to do trial by ambush.
THE WITNESS: When she wanted to draw

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the books

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THE COURT: I can't take testimony. I


am in recess. And that would be testimony.
(Pause)
THE COURT: Mrs. Phillips may take the
stand again and y'all keep moving along.
MR . IGNATIEV: I believe Ms. Baldwin's

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obj ection was

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MS. BALDWIN: Yes, I have reviewed the


documents, and it appears to me without any
further consideration, that some of the documents
are art work, and there seems it was done by more
than one person. Those documents, they are

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hearsay, Your Honor; they lack trustworthiness;

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they are not relevant to this issue. I don't know


what any of that has to do with the issue before
the Court, which is termination of parental

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PATSY AINSWORTH, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Direct - Wanda Phillips

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rights.
I woul d ask that t hey not be allowed.
Your Honor, for the record, they are dated on the
front, July 20, 201 1 ; that just happens to be the
date of the last order in this case and that has
been a course of conduct with Ms. Raven and
Ms. Wanda in this case all along; they enter into
an agreed order; they agree to something ; t hey go
to Louisiana and file something to stop it; they
create or influence documents right before
visitation is to take place , and that has been the
case consistently. That is why we object to these
documents ; they were prepared on the very day the
temporary order was entered.
MR. IGNATIEV: Your Honor, my response
to that is, I know Ms. Baldwin has been arguing
that those things have all been agreed to. The
fact of the matter is except for one occasion, the
orders that have come, particul arly since t he
Court has been involved, have been agreed as to
form only.
After conference with the Court and
object ion raised by me on my client ' s behalf, as
far as this document goes, the fact of the matter
is that for purposes of authentication under the
rules of evidence, I don't believe a nine-year-old
can authenticate anything anyway .
THE COURT: For the purposes of the
rules of evidence then, what would be your
PATSY AINSWORTH, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Direct - Wanda Phillips


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position as to what the law says about the court


accepting into evidence drawings that are offered
by a third person, and the artist is not here. I
want to honestly hear what your understanding of
the rules is.
MR. IGNATIEV:

Your Honor, I am bringing

this forward to show the state of mind and her


mother who are concerned only for the welfare of
Harley and Zoey, and this is what is being given
to them as information. This is what they have to
work with. I am showing that my client is not
acting out of some sort of irrational hatred of
her ex-husband.
THE COURT: The Court can, only because
of what the rules of evidence say about how those
documents should be verified, you can offer them
for identification purposes only, and let's just
move right along. I read Judge Thomas' order and
from looking at Judge Thomas' order, if the
children required continuing counseling, that was
supposed to take place. There is a GAL in place
that all items regarding anything that relates to
abuse, et cetera, should go through the GAL; and I
am concerned about that the parties may not
understand the GAL's purpose, and I thought that I
explained it . But you all understand that the
guardian ad litem is the investigatory arm of the
Court and takes no side as it relates to either
one of you all. Were you all aware of that? I am
PATSY AINSWORTH, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Direct - Wanda Phillips

Page 256

THE COURT: You have not?


MR. JOHNSON: No, ma'am.
THE COURT: They will be offered just

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for identification only be cause nobody has been


privy to them before t oday. Let's move on. Mark
them for ID.
MS. BALDWIN: For the record, I object
on that.
THE COURT: Overruled. As it stands,
the Court has allowed several drawings that the
Court has not reviewed to be offered for
identification purposes only, even though no
predicate has been laid as to whose photographs
they are, when they were done, except they were
done July 20th. The Clerk is asking me, so she
can describe these documents . Are these drawings .
by one child or two, Mr. Ignatiev?
MR. IGNATIEV: Your Honor, that is what
I was going to get to and ask Mrs. Phillips.
THE COURT: Ask, please.

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MR. IGNATIEV:

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Mrs. Phillips, were you present when


this was being done, the entire time when these
drawings were being made?
A.
Sometimes I was in the washroom, and

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sometimes I

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sometimes I was cooking. The house was locked.


No one was in the house but Harley and myself.

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But I was not standing over her the entire time,

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(Continuing)

Q.

was in there making the bed, and

PATSY AINSWORTH, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Direct - Wanda Phillips

Page 261

before the evidence was ever brought forward.


THE COURT: You are aware you cannot

have contact with judges or their staff regarding

contested litigation?
THE WITNESS: No, ma'am.
THE COURT: You can't. Like the judge
in Louisiana, those officers cannot get involved
with this. When you start making these calls and
have people send e-mails, all it does is protract
and bog down the court system because now that you
all are raising the fact that you think there is a
continuance, I am going to have to make this a
part of the record, which means the Supreme Court
and anybody else that looks at this now will see
these notes and e-mailsthathavebeensent.It
really does make sense when all we have to do is
do the case and deal with the law.
I have allowed those drawings to be
admitted even though the Mississippi Rules of
Evidence will say they are not documents that can
be offered into evidence, but they are there for
identification, and let's move on.
The question was, we don't have the good
book even though you knew as of 9:30 yesterday
there was a trial today?
THE WITNESS: It has got pictures or
brownies and cakes in it.
THE COURT: But you knew there was a
trial, and you didn't bring the good book.

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PATSY AINSWORTH, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

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THE WI TNESS : I didn't fee l like it was


relevant , and I didn ' t have the good book .
THE COURT: That t el l s me the n, i f t he
good book is not r elevant , the bad one is not.
Your witne ss ha s indica ted that it ' s not relevant
so neither will go i nto evidence . Let ' s move on .
Take that document back . I t ' s not g i v i ng the
court a good i dea of wha t is go ing on.
THE WITNESS: I misspoke. I do f eel
t ha t bo t h i s r e l evant. I do feel t hat both is
re levant, but I don ' t have the books. I didn ' t
fee l t hat i t appl ied t o the case because a l l it
had was pictures of cakes and brownies in it.
THE COURT : Let ' s move on .
(Cont i nuing )
MR. IGNATIEV:
Q.
What i ndicat ions do you have t hat
Michael has mistrea ted the gi rls since the trial
of September 2008?
A.
What was t he trial i n September of 2008?
MR . IGNATIEV: Permiss ion to treat as
ho st i l e .
THE COURT: Go ahead.
Q.
Wanda, what evi dence do you have that
Mi chae l has mi streat ed your granddaughters since
september of 2008, f r om that time, back when Raven
got custody back?
A.
Nothing . I am sorry . I am so
distracted. He has drank and drove with the girl s

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on numerous occasions.

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PATSY AINSWORTH, OFFICI AL COURT REPORTER

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