Blurred Lines Trial - Transcript Exhibit H PDF

Case 2:13-cv-06004-JAK-AGR Document 347-4 Filed 03/17/15 Page 1 of 75 Page ID
#:9865

#:9866
UNITED
CENTRAL
STATES
DISTRICT
DISTRICT
COURT
OF CALIFORNIA
3
4
THE HONORABLE
UNITED
STATES
JOHN A. KRONSTADT
DISTRICT
JUDGE
PRESIDING
6
7
Pharrell
Williams,
et al.,
Plaintiffs,
9
10
vs.
Case No.
11
12
13
CV 13-06004-JAK(AGRx)
Bridgeport
Music,
Inc.,
et al.,
Defendants.
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
REPORTER'S
TRANSCRIPT
OF TRIAL
PROCEEDINGS
Day 4 - P.M. Session

Los Angeles,
Friday,
California
February
27, 2015
21
22
23
24
25
Pamela A. Batalo, CSR, FCRR, RMR

Official Reporter
Roybal Federal Building
255 East Temple Street
Room 181-1
Los Angeles, California
90012
(213) 687-0446
United States District Court, Central District of California

#:9867
29
And, for example, the phrase move it up in Give has
Q.
different rhythm and different notes than get up in Blurred
00:
Lines; right?
00:
A.
happy to answer you.
in these phrases and three are identical.
Q.
whether those have the same notes.
A.
10
that?
11
Q.
12
13
Again, if I may look at my own breakdown of it, I'll be
Okay.
00:
00:
00:
Why don't you look at move it up and get up and tell me
00:
00:
I'll have to look at, I think, my report.
May I do
00:
00:
Do you have it handy?

THE COURT:
00:
Which exhibit?
To which of your reports
are you referring?
14
THE WITNESS:
15
MR. MILLER:
16
But they have -- there are only four notes
00:
00:
00:
It would be my full report.

You know what?
It's not worth getting
into that, your Honor.
00:
00:
00:
17
THE COURT:
18
MR. MILLER:
19
THE COURT:
20
Any redirect, Mr. Busch?
00:
21
MR. BUSCH:
Yes, your Honor.
00:
REDIRECT EXAMINATION
00:
22
All right.
00:
I have no further questions.

All right.
Thank you.
00:
00:
23
BY MR. BUSCH:
24
Q.
Good afternoon, Ms. Finell.
00:
25
A.
Good afternoon.
00:
00:

#:9868
30
1
Q.
I want
half
hours
A.
Uh-huh.
00:
Q.
Yes?
00:
A.
Yes.
00:
Q.
About
A.
Yes.
Q.
Do any of the distinctions
make
between
10
your
analysis
11
A.
Not
at all.
12
Q.
And
did
13
the deposit
14
A.
Yes.
00:
15
Q.
Okay.
00:
16
to ask you -- we've

now
today
a half
with
hour
going
Mr. Miller;
yesterday;
about
is that
is that
three
and a
00:
right?
00:
right?
00:
00:
your
that Mr. Miller
transcriptions
has
and the deposit
tried
copy
to
00:
change
00:
at all?
00:
00:
you base
your
testimony
today
on your
analysis
of
copy?
to,
17
explain
certain
18
explain
in Mr. Miller's
I think,
of the answers
First,
00:
00:
I'd like
19
been
I want
begin
that
examination
to start
by giving
you were
you
not
a chance
allowed
to
to
of you.
with
the
keyboard
00:
00:
00:
issue
that
00:
20
came up during
21
that
in your mind?
00:
22
A.
Yes.
00:
23
Q.
Is there
24
copy?
25
A.
Mr. Miller's
a dedicated
examination
stave
for the
of you.
keyboard
Do you have
in the deposit
00:
00:
00:
No.
00:

#:9869
31
1
Q.
deposition?
A.
Yes.
Q.
But
you say that
absolutely
A.
Okay.
is that
explain
your
to the jury
opinion
is that
in the deposit
testifying
about
in your
exactly
the
why
keyboard
you believe
rhythm
or
is
00:
copy?
00:
00:
Deposit
stave
00:
00:
Yes.
means
the
copies
five
So deposit
12
that's
being
13
once.
So the
14
not possible
to write
15
professional
have
16
meant.
17
Q.
18
could
19
specifically
20
put
allow
only
one stave
performed
copyist
you write
allow
six,
to choose
everything
learned
how
-- in most
eight
what
down.
to look
shorthand,
musical
and yet it could
by five,
has
as a musical
on which
copies
formats
only
are meant
lines
11
notes.
of their
represent
musicians
to write
and
music
down.
who
00:
00:
00:
all at
And musicians
at that
so a
So it's
are
know what's
00:
00:
00:
00:
00:
00:
And
so specifically
you
explain
to the jury
copy
THE COURT:
BY MR.
with
is in the deposit
the deposit
21
on the
Slow
respect
to the
why
keyboard
the
copy.
screen
down,
And
keyboard
if you'd
like me to
to illustrate
please.
00:
00:
00:
00:
00:
00:
Q.
To illustrate,
24
A.
Thank
you,
rhythm,
rhythm
BUSCH:
23
25
you were
00:
can you
10
22
what
00:
8
9
And
I would
be happy
to do so.
yes.
THE COURT:
00:
00:
You wish
to see
it or you don't?
00:

#:9870
32
1
THE WITNESS:
the
Yes.
THE WITNESS:
Okay.
transcription,
which
keyboard
BUSCH:
This
is Exhibit
And
THE COURT:
What
exhibit
MR.
That
would
THE COURT:
THE WITNESS:
BUSCH:
10
THE COURT:
11
THE WITNESS:
12
THE COURT:
13
THE WITNESS:
14
So --
15
THE COURT:
I'm asking
It's
16.
Exhibit
it on
376, page
00:
be looking
also
at the
are
you
00:
reviewing,
please?
THE COURT:
20
THE WITNESS:
00:
the witness.
00:
I'm sorry.
00:
16?
00:
right.
I'm sorry.
00:
00:
Okay.
00:
Read
the
question,
I need
please.
00:
Read)
to correct
00:
myself.
It should
16.
Okay.
24
transcription
25
A.
Would
Right.
00:
00:
I'm looking
at the
keyboard
00:
00:
BUSCH:
Q.
be
00:
transcription.
23
00:
--
be exhibit
Oh,
00:
Go ahead.
19, not
19
BY MR.
00:
00:
THE WITNESS:
Exhibit
I will
That's
(Record
17
248.
376, page
Yes.
16
22
put
is an exhibit.
21
Please
00:
MR.
18
Yes.
screen.
I'm sorry.
00:
you please
explain
to the
is in the deposit
copy.
So the -- as I say,
the
jury
how
the
keyboard
00:
00:
keyboard
plays
with
the
00:

#:9871
33
1
left
and the
right
combine
to express
the deposit
and
the right
hand
copy
A and G natural
which
an offbeat
again,
accounts
left
in the third
all of these
11
left
and
12
A7.
Over
and over
13
Q.
Okay.
Thank
Mr. Miller
16
represented
17
as found
did
is -- which
they
is shown
keyboard
is primarily
line,
of the bar.
And,
in the
second
half
of the bar,
there
is also
second
coincide
playing
note
lead
THE
COURT:
with
which
both
23
parties
00:
00:
are
00:
00:
the
00:
is the A7 chord.
00:
00:
in opening
of something
sheet?
statement
that
of Marvin
they
Objection.
Sustained.
Beyond
It's
created
Gaye's
Did you hear
by Mr.
King
and
00:
and
00:
Got To Give It Up
00:
that?
00:
the scope.
00:
not
a proper
question.
00:
00:
BUSCH:
Have
is
the
the chords,
go.
Q.
00:
half
and they
00:
and the rhythms,
second
to be the playing
19
22
00:
playing
the
you hear
MILLER:
BY MR.
on
00:
in the
which
00:
00:
you.
MR.
21
which
of it
shown
again
18
Let's
for part
are
rhythms
hand
the playing
in the
accounts
of it and together
in the bass
it's
bar
offbeat
the right
15
hand
for part
of the
rhythms,
G, meaning
10
20
hand
as shown
Now,
left
the A7 chord,
offbeat
14
so the
in the beginning.
So the
are
hand
you
00:
listened
to what
was
created
by the Thicke
00:
00:
24
THE
COURT:
Are
25
MR.
BUSCH:
What
you
referring
to an exhibit?
is the recording?
00:
00:

#:9872
34
Q.
played
Have
you
by or created
3
4
your
which
is an audio
00:
Wilbur?
Objection.
THE COURT:
BY MR.
00:
Beyond
the scope
of cross,
00:
A.
Yes.
Q.
Is there
10
A.
Yes.
11
Q.
Is the
12
reflected
you
listened
earlier
18
And
19
start
20
board.
tell.
00:
00:
rhythm
played
in that
recording?
00:
00:
keyboard
in the
rhythm
lead
THE COURT:
17
I can't
to that?
a keyboard
14
Q.
you.
00:
MR. MILLER:
16
tell
00:
13
BY MR.
I can't
BUSCH:
Have
that's
played
in that
recording
00:
sheet?
00:
Beyond
Yes.
the scope.
00:
Sustained.
00:
BUSCH:
Let's
00:
go back
questions
I want
with
the
Now,
that
376,
A.
Yes.
25
Q.
And
I want
to talk
Mr. Miller
I think,
slide
asked
with
phrase.
Mr. Miller
you
Exhibit
Would
to you about
in his
376,
you put
some
recall
00:
examination.
and
that
I want
00:
to
00:
on the
00:
3.
played
00:
Blurred Lines multiple
times
of you.
Do you
24
and
signature
examination
23
now
to start,
Exhibit
21
his
141,
00:
Q.
22
by Sandy
No.
Honor.
15
to Exhibit
MR. MILLER:
5
6
listened
in
00:
00:
that?
00:
00:
you were
asked
how many
times
the
signature
phrase
00:

#:9873
35
1
in Blurred Lines.
appears
Do you
A.
Yes.
Q.
And
twelve
A.
Yes.
Q.
You wanted
were
not
note
proceed
Q.
15
phrase
16
variants
made
with
BY MR.
14
twelve-note
confining
signature
his
questions
to
00:
phrase?
00:
to explain
the variations
to do so.
like
answers
you now
but
to explain
--
Objection.
That's
a ruling
your
I would
in your
an improper
then
I've made
questions.
Would
you please
Come
explain
question.
a ruling,
on, Mr.
Excuse
then
you
me.
00:
just
00:
Busch.
00:
and explain
variants
question.
Take
MR.
22
Q.
23
signature
24
A.
25
in which
that
the
signature
as well,
Objection.
00:
its
00:
please.
Calls
00:
for a narrative.
00:
to form.
00:
THE COURT:
21
the times
in the -- in Blurred Lines, including
MR. MILLER:
19
Explain
00:
00:
appears
Objection
00:
00:
BUSCH:
17
20
-- full
THE COURT:
12
00:
Mr. Miller
MR. MILLER:
10
18
recall
allowed
If I have
that?
00:
13
remember
00:
do you
11
00:
Start
it in pieces,
BUSCH:
phrase
appears
multiple
I showed
that
the
first
please.
part
Number
of your
00:
of times.
00:
Okay.
to the jury,
It appears
with
00:
if you would,
the number
of times
the
in Blurred Lines.
times
and
it's
00:
in Blurred Lines.
also
part
00:
-- part
I have
a chart
of my exhibit.
00:
00:

#:9874
36
1
MR. BUSCH:
Can you put that up, please.
Exhibit No. 376.
THE COURT:
Mr. Busch, can you pose the question to
the witness concerning her percipient
publishing
Objection,
your Honor.
MR. MILLER:
Pardon?
00:
00:
I object to the exhibit.
It was not part
of the cross or direct.

THE COURT:
Just ask her percipient
Not what does the chart show.
13
MR. BUSCH:
questions, please.
Ask her --
Okay.
Q.
15
appear in Blurred Lines?
16
A.
17
but it's about four or five times.
18
Q.
How many times does the signature phrase or its variants
00:
00:
00:
It would help for me to see my own report to answer that,
And you are free to look at your own report.

If you wish to look at your report again
20
to refresh your recollection,
21
the report at which you're looking.

THE WITNESS:
00:
00:
14
THE COURT:
00:
00:
12
Okay.
00:
00:
22
This did not come
in in direct.
11
00:
00:
MR. MILLER:
THE COURT:
19
knowledge as opposed to
the --
10
00:
00:
This is
Okay.
let me know but we need to know
Well, when I looked at the report
00:
00:
00:
00:
00:
00:
00:
23
in the documents here, it was not printed in a way that was
00:
24
legible to me.
00:
25
May I look at it in a different form?
THE COURT:
We need an exhibit.
00:

#:9875
37
1
MR. BUSCH:
I would like to show --
00:
THE CLERK:
1728.
00:
MR. BUSCH:
I would like to show the witness
00:
Exhibit 376,
please.
00:
THE COURT:
00:
MR. KING:
00:
THE COURT:
00:
Disregard that.
00:
Mr. Busch, I want you to ask question of the witness.
00:
10
She has already answered what she recalls so please move on.
11
MR. BUSCH:
Okay.
12
Q.
13
the variants of the signature phrase that is important to you?
14
A.
15
the music.
16
signature phrase.
17
Q.
18
could.
Why are the variants that appear throughout Blurred Lines,
It's part of my musical analysis in terms of how I compared
Okay.
The variants are referring back to the initial
00:
00:
00:
00:
00:
00:
00:
And I'd like to play, actually, Blurred Lines, if we
00:
00:
19
THE CLERK:
Mr. Busch, what exhibit?
00:
20
MR. BUSCH:
529.
00:
21
(Whereupon, the audio was played for the jury.)
22
00:
BY MR. BUSCH:
01:
Okay.
01 :
23
Q.
24
signature phrase or its variants appear in that first playing of
01:
25
Blurred Lines?
01:
Ms. Finell, how many times did you hear the

#:9876
38
1
A.
its
Q.
And
A.
I'm sorry?
Q.
Was
A.
Yes.
Q.
Was
A.
Yeah.
Q.
Did you hear
10
A.
Yes,
11
Q.
All
12
would
13
A.
14
always
on a repeated
15
the A,
good girl, the words
16
because
the
17
itself,
but moves
18
Q.
And
19
your
keyboard
20
A.
Yes.
21
it up or down,
22
for example.
23
Q.
24
25
Well,
full
it was
the -- one was
expression
was
and
there
a blurred
there
there
then
the
first
was
time.
It was
full
01:
one variant.
01:
lines?
01:
01:
blurred lines as well?
a phrase
01 :
01 :
that
a variant?
It's
01:
related
defini tely.
01 :
good girl as well?
01 :
I did.
right.
01:
And
be a variant
They
explain
of the
are -- they
Oh,
good girl and blurred lines
signature
When
from
equivalent
01 :
-- the
the chord
good girl.
good girl is
is A,
When
A to E, it's
harmonically
01:
phrase.
restatements
note.
song moves
is that
Okay.
are
how
it repeats
it's
on an E.
01 :
on
01:
on an Echard,
01 :
It repeats
01:
around.
01:
to one of the examples
you played
on
yesterday?
01:
in the terms
yes,
01:
that's
of transposing
true.
I did
a melody
that
with
and moving
01:
Jingle Bells,
01 :
01 :
Let's
play
(Whereupon,
MR.
BUSCH:
the next
the
audio
Okay.
section,
please.
was played
for the
01:
jury.)
01:
01 :

#:9877
39
1
Q.
section
A.
I think
Q.
And
A.
It's very
again
Q.
How many
there
what
you hear
the
signature
phrase
in that
01:
those
hard
All
right.
01:
two times?
once
(Whereupon,
BY MR.
two.
01 :
the record's
to the blurred
related
Okay.
01 :
were
were
And
the
turned
off,
but
it was
01:
lines and the good girl sections.
01:
keep playing.
audio
01:
was played
for the jury.)
01 :
BUSCH:
01 :
10
Q.
Did you hear
11
A.
Yes.
12
Q.
And
it one or two more
there?
01 :
01:
you play
(Whereupon,
BY MR.
times
Uh-huh.
would
13
14
did
or its variants?
8
9
times
it again.
the
audio
01:
was played
for the
jury.)
01:
BUSCH:
15
Q.
16
signature
17
bridge
18
A.
Yes.
19
Q.
And
20
parlando
21
A.
Yes.
22
Q.
And
23
phrase,
24
A.
25
rap?
01:
Did you just

phrase
hear
there
for a brief
in Blurred Lines that
-- and we're
second
going
-- did you
followed
the rap
to move
just
hear
from
the
the
01:
01:
section?
01:
01:
does
that
very
that
we talked
similar
bridge
precede
Marvin
Gaye's
01:
about?
01:
01:
did
you hear
in that
I think
last
so but
good girl repeated

section
it went
there,
the
signature
01:
we played?
by pretty
01:
fast.
You mean
before
the
01:
01:

#:9878
40
1
Q.
Before
A.
Oh,
Q.
Okay.
yes,
rap,
yes.
before
the
Go ahead.
4
5
the
(Whereupon,
BY MR.
01:
rap
Play
the
I did.
01 :
the rest.
audio
01:
was played
for the jury.)
01 :
BUSCH:
Q.
as well
A.
a good girl.
And
did
01 :
you hear
the
signature
phrase
several
times
there
or its variants?
Yes,
I did.
10
Q.
11
not
12
its variants
13
A.
Yes.
14
Q.
Now,
15
notation.
Okay.
01 :
There's
a part
where
I always wanted
he sings
01 :
01:
And
correct
01 :
so, Ms.
that
the signature
appear
Six
Mr.
Finell,
let me ask you,

phrase
that
is it or is it
you've
identified
or
Blurred Lines in its choruses?
throughout
times.
Miller
01:
01:
01:
01:
also
asked
you
about
a rest
in the
01:
01:
16
Can you put up Exhibit
17
And
do you recall
18
distinction
19
sheet?
20
A.
Yes.
21
Q.
Okay.
22
see that
23
A.
I'll have
24
Just
one moment.
25
Q.
We can put
between
Do you
the
recall
rest
No.
376,
Mr. Miller
there
and
page
trying
3.
Okay.
to draw
the deposit
01:
copy
01:
lead
that?
01:
01 :
01:
Would
you please
explain
to the jury
why
you do not
as any distinction?
to get the
lead
01:
01:
sheet
to make
this
comparison.
01:
01:
it on the
screen,
if you
like.
01 :

#:9879
41
1
A.
Yeah.
Q.
We can put
A.
Can
Q.
We are putting
But
I need
them both
THE
THE WITNESS:
COURT:
down
you move
it back
please.
Thank
11
12
the
Q.
01:
01:
screen
page
Okay.
sheet
down.
01:
Just
248 next
to 376, page
3.
01:
of 248 are you displaying?

Thank
you.
up a little
keep
Could
bit?
going.
01:
you please
Thank
Further.
you.
move
Could
Stop,
01:
01:
01:
01:
I don't
recall
Mr.
Miller's
precise
question.
01:
BUSCH:
01:
You don't
recall
MR.
14
THE COURT:
BY MR.
What
lead
13
15
me.
you.
Okay.
BY MR.
So -- excuse
on?
up on the
10
too.
one on top of another.
you put
-- move
this,
MILLER:
him discussing
Objection,
Let's
with
your
move
you the
rest?
01:
Honor.
01:
on, please.
01:
BUSCH:
01:
16
Q.
17
notation
18
consistent
19
A.
Completely.
01:
20
Q.
Why?
01:
21
A.
Because
22
represented
accurately
23
notational.
There's
24
and that's
25
true
Let me ask the question
with
of the
with
signature
this
phrase
the deposit
copy
all of the rhythms
-- most
rests.
and some
more
than
way:
in Got
lead
and
could
your
01:
To Give It Up is
01:
sheet?
01:
all of the pitches
of the differences
one way
of the differences
A note
Do you believe
to notate
are that,
be shown
are
are
01:
simply
01:
a rhythm
as the
as a full-length
01:
same
is
note
01:
or
01:

#:9880
42
1
it could
be shown
as a shorter
silence,
no other
note
Q.
that
in the audio
A.
No doubt
Q.
With
the
initial
Is there
that
the audio
A.
Why
11
Q.
Yes.
excerpt
of the
is there
no repeated
14
MR.
Okay.
I guess
BUSCH:
18
THE WITNESS:
19
THE COURT:
20
Would
21
MR.
23
Theme
25
Yes.
lead
where
a repeated
phrase,
01:
phrase
01:
sheet?
01:
note
why
the variants
which
of
01:
is in the
01:
is that?
01:
01:
right.
01:
the question,
please.
01:
01:
note
Does
is the
it make
same
Do you understand
any analytical
or not?
the question?
01:
01:
Okay.
I don't
that,
I'll move
The other
01:
01:
Yes.
you restate
BUSCH:
topic
think
I do.
01:
please.
on,
your
that
01:
Honor.
Mr. Miller
01:
covered
was
01:
01:
Do you
A.
signature
note?
x.
24
phrase,
is this:
if the initial
THE COURT:
All
the
exhibit
Objection.
my question
17
Q.
the audio
01:
Restate
22
that
is in the
signature
THE COURT:
difference
01:
01:
reflecting
do not have
13
16
mind
signature
MR. MILLER:
Q.
meaning
01:
12
15
a rest,
it.
you prepared
to the
phrase
playing
10
in your
with
at all.
respect
signature
interrupts
any doubt
example
note
recall
that?
01:
01:

#:9881
43
1
Q.
And
your
answer
he asked
was yes before
Do you recall
A.
Yes.
Q.
Can
deposit
A.
represented
occur
10
you explain
Theme
X to which
01 :
break.
01:
that?
01:
to the
jury
exactly
how
Theme
X is in the
Yes.
Theme
X is in the deposit
as one melodic
with
line
the harmonizations
represented
when
copy
in one -- it's
there's
really
of the chord.
01 :
three
So Theme
that
X is
01:
COURT:
01:
Okay.
question,
Stop
please.
there.
01:
In other
words,
I don't
want
narrative.
01:
01:
14
MR.
15
Q.
16
line?
17
A.
18
set of five
19
material.
20
Q.
21
Mr.
And
01 :
as one line.
Next
why
BUSCH:
Okay.
is it that
01:
a lead
sheet
would
only
include
one
01:
01:
Well,
a lead
sheet's
lines,
You have
With
respect
Miller,
what
was
23
THE COURT:
Why
to pick
to the
MR.
BY MR.
restricted
so you have
22
Q.
01:
01:
12
25
about
copy?
THE
24
question
01:
11
13
you a long
MILLER:
to one stave,
to eliminate
and
some
were
point
with
respect
Objection,
your
Sustained
put
on the
to those
Honor.
as framed.
BUSCH:
did
you compare
of the
01:
01:
01:
that
Yes.
one
choose.
lyrics
your
meaning
screen
by
lyrics?
01:
01 :
01:
01 :
01:
those
two
sets
of lyrics?
01 :

#:9882
44
1
MR. MILLER:
MR. BUSCH:
He opened the door, your Honor.
01 :
THE COURT:
Yes.
01:
Same objection.
We did this yesterday.
The door was opened.
BY MR. BUSCH:
01:
01:
Q.
Why did you compare those sets of lyrics?
01 :
A.
It's -- a musical analyst who's looking at vocal music is
01 :
required to see what the relationship
music.
Q.
10
about and put on the screen.
yearned
13
A.
to be free with just let me liberate you?
MR. MILLER:
15
THE COURT:
perspective,
17
18
Q.
19
perspective
20
two?
01:
Objection, your Honor.
01:
Well, it needs to be framed from a musical
not from a literary one.
MR. BUSCH:
01 :
01 :
That both --
14
01 :
01:
So what was your point in comparing but my body
12
01 :
01 :
So let's go through each one that Mr. Miller asked you
11
16
are of the lyrics to the
01:
Fine.
From a musical perspective,
01:
01:
lyrical perspective,
thematic
in the music, what was your point in comparing those
01:
01:
01:
21
THE COURT:
22
MR. MILLER:
23
THE COURT:
It's compound.
01:
24
MR. BUSCH:
Okay.
01 :
25
Q.
It's compound.
Same objection.
As a musical work, what was your point in comparing those
01:
01 :
01:

#:9883
45
1
two sets of lyrics?
01:
THE COURT:
THE WITNESS:
The lyrics are set to melodies and rhythms and
harmonies,
I'm looking at them.
Do you understand
Thank you.
the question?
01:
I do.
01:
01:
etc., so to the extent that the lyrics are similar,

That's what an analyst needs to do.
01:
BY MR. BUSCH:
Q.
perspective
01:
01:
And what was your point in reviewing from a musical analyst

the lyrics but my body yearned to be free and just
01:
01:
10
let me liberate you?
11
A.
12
to their music.
01:
13
Q.
Okay.
01:
01:
That both songs use similar lyrics and set similar lyrics
Was it thematic as well?
14
MR. MILLER:
15
THE COURT:
Objection,
Sustained.
your Honor.
01:
This needs to be limited to
01 :
16
musical, not literary.
17
needs to link the music, not just the words.
18
19
It hasn't been framed in that way.
It
01:
01:
BY MR. BUSCH:
Q.
01 :
01:
Well, why are the lyrics linked, in your mind?
01 :
20
MR. MILLER:
21
MR. BUSCH:
It's part of the musical analysis.
01:
22
THE COURT:
Not the way that question's
01:
23
24
25
Same objection.
01:
framed.
Sustained.
01:
BY MR. BUSCH:
Q.
Let me ask you this, Ms. Finell.
01:
As a musicologist
and a
01:

#:9884
46
1
musical
interpret
A.
without
Q.
lyrics
training?
analyst,
is it just
or was
it the
It's both.
the
And
with
when
respect
for similar
THE COURT:
I'll
decide
THE WITNESS:
12
THE COURT:
BY MR.
a vocal
to your
Objection,
Just
at the music
works
is comparing
part
01 :
of your
01:
Honor.
01:
Let me hear
the
answer
and
Yes.
01 :
Overruled.
01:
01:
Blurred Lines, did you do that?
16
similar
17
A.
Yes.
18
Q.
Okay.
so when
you were
Got To Give It Up and
comparing
Did you
compare
the
lyrics
01:
for
themes?
19
01:
01:
01:
And
is that
THE COURT:
part
Let's
of your
move
training?
01 :
on.
01:
BY MR. BUSCH:
01:
21
Q.
22
might want to make romance versus
Well,
01:
01 :
BUSCH:
And
23
01:
01 :
analysis,
your
a minute.
15
25
look
01:
work.
in two musical
Q.
24
01:
as well?
to just
standard
14
20
similarities
to
this.
11
13
it's
you are trained
01:
MR. MILLER:
then
that
be incomplete
themes
10
lyrical
I would
lyrics
the music
why
did
you
THE COURT:
then
This
compare
the
lyrics
somebody watching
--
is cumulative.
01:
01:
Let's
please.
move
on,
01:
01:
MR. MILLER:
It's beyond
the scope.
01:

#:9885
47
1
THE COURT:
Let's move on, please.
It's cumulative.
BY MR. BUSCH:
01:
01:
Q.
on the lyrics -- I'm sorry -- on the signature phrase and the
01:
hook that we just heard.
01:
throughout those as well?
A.
Yes.
Q.
And so at the same time the signature phrase and the hook
that Mr. Miller asked you about was playing, was there anything
01:
10
else that you found significant about those phrases in that --
01:
11
those portions of the song?
01:
With respect to what we just heard -- and I'm focusing now
01:
Throughout the entire song.
12
MR. MILLER:
13
THE COURT:
14
Was the bass line and melody running
Objection.
No.
01:
01:
Beyond the scope.
But I don't understand
the question.
BY MR. BUSCH:
01:
01:
01:
01:
15
Q.
16
signature phrase and the hooks appear, is there anything else
01:
17
that is important to you in analyzing those portions of the
01:
18
songs?
01:
19
A.
20
once and I did find that the bass and keyboard were integrated
01:
21
fully throughout the entire -- entirety of both songs and so
01:
22
they were constantly -- their similarities were constantly
01:
23
present as well.
01:
24
Q.
25
Mr. Miller put on the screen at all relevant in your analysis?
Besides the time that or the number of times that the
Well, yes.
I compare all the music that's occurring at
Are any of the minor
or any of the notations that
01:
01:
01:
01:

#:9886
48
1
MR. MILLER:
THE COURT:
Overbroad.
Sustained.
01:
It's overbroad.
01:
BY MR. BUSCH:
01:
Q.
compare the -- your transcription
deposit copy lead sheet.
With respect to the bass line, Mr. Miller made -- had you
of the bass line versus the
01:
01:
01 :
Were any of the differences
or distinctions
that he
01:
tried to draw relevant in your mind?
A.
Not at all.
01 :
10
Q.
With respect to the signature phrase, Mr. Miller did the
01:
11
same thing.
12
01:
01 :
Were any of the differences
or distinctions
that he
13
tried to draw relevant in your mind?
14
A.
No.
15
Q.
And yesterday Mr. Miller asked you whether you compared
16
differences
17
analysis.
18
01:
01:
The similarities were much more important.
in the two songs and if that was as part of your
01 :
01:
01:
01:
Do you recall that?
01:
19
A.
Yes.
01:
20
Q.
What is the most important part of your analysis in your
01:
21
mind?
22
A.
23
different between works, but in the end, I found so many
01 :
24
overriding similarities
01:
25
diminished.
01:
Well, it's the -- to determine what's similar as well as
that the differences
really were
01:
01 :

#:9887
49
1
MR. BUSCH:
All right.
THE COURT:
Thank you, Ms. Finell.
MR. MILLER:
MR. MILLER:
THE COURT:
MR. MILLER:
THE COURT:
are.
May I have one minute on direct,
What's your question about?
01:
01:
It's about the copyright office lead
All right.
01:
It will be quick.
One minute.
01:
01:
01:
Just do it from where you
Do it from right there.
12
13
01:
sheet, what can be notated on a lead sheet.
10
01:
01:
THE COURT:
11
Nothing further.
redirect.
Thank you.
01 :
01 :
RECROSS-EXAMINATION
01:
BY MR. MILLER:
01:
14
Q.
15
deposit copy to the copyright office can't include mUltiple
01:
16
staves that reflect a piano part or vocal harmonies if the
01:
17
author wanted it?
01:
18
A.
19
tradition.
Is there any reason you know why sheet music submitted as a
I -- in my experience,
I've rarely seen that.
01:
01 :
20
THE COURT:
21
Ms. Finell, thank you for your testimony.
22
It's not the
01:
Let's move on.
step down.
01:
You may
01:
01:
23
Who is the next witness?
01:
24
MR. BUSCH:
Ingrid Monson, Dr. Monson.
01:
25
THE COURT:
That's your witness; correct?
01 :

#:9888
50
1
2
MR.
THE COURT:
Thank
now might
be a good
time
MR.
No.
Let's
any of you need

BUSCH:
We call
Ingrid
THE CLERK:
your
full
name
10
I-N-G-R-I-D,
and spell
going.
a break?
Let's
No?
Dr. Monson,
was
have
keep
going.
01:
Honor.
01:
sworn
01:
Can
you please
state
record.
is Ingrid
Monson.
That's
01:
M-O-N-S-O-N.
01:
All
right.
Good
afternoon,
Ms.
Monson.
proceed,
15
Mr.
DIRECT
BY MR.
17
Q.
Busch.
01:
EXAMINATION
01:
BUSCH:
Good
01:
afternoon,
18
What
Dr. Monson.
is your
19
A.
20
Quincy
21
University.
22
Q.
Can
you please
23
A.
Yes.
I have
24
Wisconsin.
25
from New
I'm a musicologist
Jones
01 :
01:
Please
16
01:
01:
afternoon.
14
01:
Thanks.
your
a seat.
it for the
My name
THE COURT:
Good
keep
Monson,
Please
THE WITNESS:
12
01:
01:
13
Honor,
you.
Does
11
Your
01:
Yes.
for a break.
3
4
BUSCH:
Professor
01:
profession?
01:
and ethnomusicologist.
of African
American
My title
Music
is the
at Harvard
01:
01:
01 :
give me your
a BA in economics
A Bachelor's
England
educational
of Music
Conservatory
from
in jazz
of Music.
background?
the University
trumpet
I have
01:
of
01 :
performance
a Master's
and
01 :
01 :

#:9889
51
1
Ph.D. from New York University
that I received in 1991.
Q.
through the positions you have held since receiving your
01:
doctorate, please.
01 :
A.
Music at Harvard University
and ethnomusicology
Okay.
01:
01:
And starting with your most recent position, walk me
8
9
in musicology
01:
I am the Quincy Jones professor of African American

and I have been that since 2001.
Prior to that time, I was an assistant professor

associate professor at Washington
01 :
01:
and
01:
01 :
University in st. Louis.
10
did a year as a visiting professor at the University of Michigan
01:
11
in Ann Arbor in '95 to '96, and I began my career as an
01:
12
assistant professor of music at the University of Chicago in
01 :
13
1991.
01:
14
Q.
Do you have other musical education?
15
A.
Yes.
16
player and I played professionally
17
also studied piano from the age of seven.
18
genres of jazz, classical music, salsa, R&B and Klezmer music.
19
Q.
What is Klezmer music?
01 :
20
A.
It's Jewish music.
01:
21
Q.
Okay.
01:
22
A.
It's good.
01 :
23
Q.
Can you give me an overview of your primary academic work,
01:
24
please?
25
A.
01:
I've been a performer my entire life.
That would be my publications.
I'm a trumpet
in my 20s and early 30s.
I have played in the
01:
01:
01:
01:
01 :
So I have two single
01 :

#:9890
52
1
authored books, both of which won awards.
Saying Something:
Jazz Improvisation
The first was called
and Interaction.
01:
THE COURT:
THE WITNESS:
So I was trying to save the Court time.
But the title of the book is Saying Something:
Could you slow down, please.

Okay.
Improvisation
University of Chicago Press in 1996.
and Interaction,
CallOut
11
University
12
01:
01:
Jazz
and that was published by the
Civil Rights
to Jazz and Africa, and that was published by Oxford

Press in 2007.
01:
01:
01:
01:
I published an edited collection where I was the
13
editor of essays called the African Diaspora:
14
Perspective, and that was published
15
01:
01:
My second book is called Freedom Sounds:
10
01:
I do talk too fast.
01 :
A Musical
in 2000.
And I have over 20 peer-reviewed
01 :
01:
01:
articles and chapters
01:
16
in books.
01:
17
BY MR. BUSCH:
01 :
18
Q.
And what courses do you teach?
19
A.
I teach both undergraduate
20
lecture undergraduate
21
called From R&B to Neo Soul.
22
African American popular music since World War II.
23
24
25
01:
and graduate courses.
My large
courses, I have one that I teach that's

That gives you the history of
And I have a jazz history class that's called Jazz

Freedom and Culture.
I also teach smaller undergraduate
01 :
01:
01 :
01:
01 :
01:
seminars about the
01:

#:9891
53
1
analysis of jazz that focus on particular artists and
repertories.
done one comparing the music of Miles Davis, Thelonious Monk and
01:
John Coltrane.
01:
I've done one on Herbie Hancock's music.
01 :
I have
01 :
I also teach courses on the music of Africa.
graduate level, I do seminars on theory and method in the field
01:
of ethnomusicology.
01:
study which is about music and perception,
cultural theory.
And at a
Topics like the sensory turn in musical

about music and
The topics change every year.
01:
01:
01:
10
Q.
11
academic studies?
12
A.
13
would be most interested is I have served on the editorial
01:
14
boards of both the major publications
01:
15
ethnomusicology
and musicology.
16
Ethnomusicology
publishes
Do you serve on any professional
board relating to your
01:
I've served on many professional
boards.
So the Society for
01:
18
THE WITNESS:
19
The Society for Ethnomusicology
Dr. Monson, you need to slow down.
called Ethnomusicology.
Okay.
a journal
01 :
I have been on that editorial board.
01 :
The American Musicological
publishes
Society publishes a journal
called The Journal of the American Musicological
23
I've served on that editorial board.
25
Society and
I've served on the editorial board of a journal called

Jazz Perspectives.
01 :
01:
22
24
01:
01:
a --
THE COURT:
21
Probably what you
of the two societies in
17
20
01:
01 :
01:
01:
01:
01:

#:9892
54
1
I have
board
positions
I've
American
BY MR.
also
served
within
also
on a variety
these
served
of committees
and
01:
organizations.
on committees
01:
in the Society
For
01:
Music.
01:
BUSCH:
Q.
issues?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Can
10
A.
Okay.
11
its analysis.
12
of jazz,
13
embodiment
Do you
01:
regularly
lecture
or speak
to academia
on music
01:
01:
I certainly
you please
do.
describe
My lecturing
I -- I lecture
and,
you
15
internationally.
16
England.
17
University
I was
University.
20
And
21
have
22
United
23
Princeton,
24
Illinois,
25
Q.
improvisation
on the social
and cultural
on music
and method
I have
lectured
and
01:
history
and perception
and
in ethnomusicology.
lectured
at Oxford
to do a lecture
spoken
to that,
lectures
States,
Africa
at the Max
since
University
and many
As part
to South
01:
in
01:
at Cambridge
Yale,
and spoke
Planck
01:
University
01:
in Berlin.
of my career,
universities
of California
at Rhodes
Institute
the beginning
at the major
Columbia,
in the
Berkeley,
of Michigan,
academic
01:
01:
01:
UCLA,
University
01:
of
others.
of your
01:
01:
a lot
University
series
01:
01:
invited
I've
in addition
given
asked
01:
in England.
I was
19
I have
01:
on jazz
theory
years
--
lecturing?
I lecture
know,
I -- in recent
18
your
-- I speak
R&B and Motown.
14
My topics
01:
01:
training,
do you
learn
-- did
you
01:

#:9893
55
1
learn
A.
analysis,
passages.
how
to compare
Absolutely.
two pieces
That's
to look
for similarities
One of my
favorite
took
a course
Q.
Okay.
compare
A.
I certainly
10
What
we often
11
Body and Soul and we'll
12
piece.
13
passages
14
improvisational
15
artists.
on comparing
And
pieces
And
as part
do.
in musical
and differences
courses
as a graduate
the music
of your
01 :
in musical
01:
of Haydn
academic
student
is I
and Mozart.
work,
This
is very
take
compare
and then
choices
like
multiple
01:
do you regularly
have
in jazz
analysis.
'Round Midnight or
performances
classes
look
that
important
a piece
we do in those
them
01:
01:
01:
do is we'll
is we'll
on each
transcribe
made
01:
01 :
01:
at the different
been
01:
01:
by different
01:
01:
MR. BUSCH:
Dr. Monson
Okay.
as an expert
18
THE COURT:
19
MR. MILLER:
20
THE COURT:
BY MR.
training
of music?
what
from
16
21
of your
01:
01:
17
part
of music?
Your
Honor,
in musicology
Any
tender
01:
and ethnomusicology.
01 :
objection?
Not
All
we would
on those
01:
two topics,
your
Honor.
right.
01:
BUSCH:
22
Q.
23
an expert
24
A.
No,
25
Q.
Do you
Now,
01 :
Dr. Monson,
witness
do you have
any previous
in a case?
I do not.
seek
01 :
This
out work
is my
experience
being
01:
01:
first
time.
as an expert
witness?
01:
01:

#:9894
56
1
A.
No, I don't.
01 :
Q.
Why is that?
01:
A.
I am far too busy with the rest of what I do.
01 :
Q.
Okay.
01:
this case?
Why did you then agree to be an expert witness in
01:
THE COURT:
MR. MILLER:
8
9
Sustained.
01:
Objection.
01:
BY MR. BUSCH:
01 :
Okay.
01:
Q.
When asked to analyze and compare pieces of music,
10
do you have a general methodology
11
A.
Yes, I do.
01 :
12
Q.
And can you please describe that methodology.
01:
13
A.
Well, I would start out by listening to the two works in
01:
14
question and noticing where similarities
15
sheet music or a score or a transcription
16
consult those as well and I would be looking for similarities
17
melody, harmony, accompaniment parts and rhythm.
18
Q.
19
to do something differently?
20
A.
21
to do with the sections, a phrase link or section, and in that
01 :
22
case, I might make a diagram to remind myself of the
01:
23
relationships
01 :
24
Q.
25
that affect the way you analyze?
that you employ?
arise.
01:
If the -- if
01 :
existed, I would
01:
in
What other similarities might be there where you would want
Sometimes the similarities that operate musical works have
of the -- of the different sections in the piece.
If the pieces you are comparing are in different keys, does
01 :
01:
01:
01:
01 :
01:
01 :

#:9895
57
1
A.
No,
it doesn't,
transpose
the pieces
comparison.
Q.
Is that
A.
Absolutely
Q.
Why
A.
Well,
western
music
octave,
so you
except
into
for the
fact
a common
key
that
you would
so you can make
need
to
a proper
01:
01:
standard
it's
procedure
standard
in musical
analysis?
01:
procedure.
01 :
is that?
it's
01 :
standard
procedure
and that's
can sing
because
any
because
there's
song
there
in 12 keys.
The Beautiful in E flat or in A or in B flat,
11
recognize
12
matter
13
relationship
14
song's
15
Q.
16
thing?
17
A.
18
pitchshifting
19
transposition when
20
Q.
21
comes
22
A.
23
in the melody.
24
relationship
25
the role
the melody,
what
key
I sing
of those
-- America
American
it in because
pitches
that
it's
gives
are
12 keys
12 half-steps
10
in
in an
right.
01 :
01:
So if I do America
01:
you're
01 :
going
to
The Beautiful, no
01:
the relative
01:
you the
sense
of the
identity.
All
01:
01:
01 :
Is pitchshifting
and
transposing
the same
01 :
01:
Yes,
it is.
Once
I mean,
when
you've
people
it's being
you're
transposed
tend
done
doing
to use
the word
by a computer
01:
program
and
it in notation.
the pieces
01:
to a common
key, what
next?
Well,
01:
01:
01 :
then
I'm going
to want
to look
at the notes
I'm going
to want
to look
at them
to the underlying
of each
pitch
is.
harmony
and then
in common
in
to assess
01 :
01:
what
01:
01:

#:9896
58
1
Q.
Okay.
A.
Well,
kind
of hierarchical.
speaking,
background
Q.
analyzing
A.
where
What
do you mean
in music,
the
ones
pitches
And
that
what
other
where
its rhythmic
11
Q.
12
creating
13
A.
Absolutely.
14
Q.
And
15
some pitches
16
A.
17
assessing
18
pitches
19
supposed
20
Q.
Do similar
principles
21
A.
Absolutely.
We're
22
important
23
the most
24
of the
25
1, 4, and
saying
a melodic
shape
identity
in common
with
structurally
generally
the
more
01:
important.
do you make
overall
where
01:
in
01 :
01 :
contour
it rises,
of the melody,
where
01:
it falls
01 :
01 :
are
all these
factors
important
in
of a phrase?
01:
01:
practice
in musical
analysis
to leave
01:
01:
We are
role
are
trained
of each
important
one.
passage
apply
also
But
in nature.
that
some
important
01:'
-- those
01:
We're
can build
chords
chords
01:
notes.
01 :
of harmony?
chords
chord,
I, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and we're
5 are the most
we're
to its essential
the tonic
you
when
out those
to the analysis
taught
Usually
analysis
to factor
or passing
the musical
others.
in musical
pitches
ornamental
to reduce
than
01:
01:
out?
the
scale,
pitches,
is
01:
it is.
that
important
-- music
is.
-- well,
is it standard
Yes,
Musical
01:
and note?
at the
it ends,
and what
you
pitch
to look
10
Are
notes
equal.
considerations
besides
want
it begins,
share
are considered
melodies
I would
are not
So the more
harmony,
Okay.
the role of each pitch?
by
the
01 :
are more
1 chord,
01:
is
on any degree
taught
that
usually
in a -- in a key.
And
01 :
01:
01:
01 :

#:9897
59
1
that's
because
they make
We're
often
because
4 and
5.
Q.
determining
A.
Looking
background.
taught
they
the
that
lead
cadence
or the
closing
2, 3, 6 and 7 are
to one
of those
of the
secondary
other
primary
key.
chords,
chords,
01 :
01:
1,
01:
01:
Okay.
With
these
concepts
if melodies
Well,
I go back
are
similar
to first
for the harmonic
looking
context,
falling,
and the
overall
rhythm,
also,
11
should
12
relative,
too.
13
a little,
and you will
14
gesture.
15
Q.
Are
16
A.
Yes.
17
Probably
18
similarities
19
Q.
Okay.
20
A.
Well,
21
virtue
22
repeating
within
23
therefore
you recognize
24
Q.
What
25
A.
A qualitative
say that
with
You
can
start,
stretch
still
do you go about
for common
what
the melodies
rising,
how
01:
to one another?
Where
10
the
in mind,
pitches.
01:
is the harmonic
where
they
rhythmic
there
01 :
end.
contour.
-- rhythm
it a little
recognize
01:
The
And
01 :
01:
is somewhat
01:
or -- and shorten
it as a similar
it
rhythmic
01:
01:
01:
there
different
There
types
are many
the biggest
different
categories
and quantitative
And
what
of similarities?
kinds
would
of the pitches
similarity
-- you
a work.
is qualitative
of similarities.
be qualitative
01:
know,
01:
similarity?
would
01 :
be one that
or of the melodic
So you hear
that
arises
ideas
a lot and so
it as a similarity.
is one that's
by
01 :
01 :
01 :
01:
similarity?
similarity
01:
similarities.
is a quantitative
a quantitative
01:
01:
very
distinctive.
01 :

#:9898
60
1
It has
signature
about
a distinct
musical
of the piece.
Beethoven's
THE COURT:
Next
BY MR.
Q.
Finell
the
yesterday
01:
talk
the dah-dah-dah-dah.
Okay.
Stop
there,
significant?
A.
Well,
10
please.
01:
01:
01:
an example
of something
that
is quantitatively
often,
yes,
the
Slow
accompaniment
01:
down,
01:
please.
BUSCH:
01:
12
Q.
13
example
14
important
15
A.
That' s qualitatively
16
Q.
Yes.
17
A.
I would
18
qualitatively
19
Q.
20
as an expert
21
A.
Yes,
22
Q.
And
23
A.
Yes,
24
Q.
Okay.
25
with
respect
I was
like
All
01:
01:
THE COURT:
What
01 :
01:
question.
Do you have
BY MR.
Ms.
becomes
BUSCH:
11
and it often
So we heard
5th and
profile
going
to ask you
Beethoven's
is do you have
5th of something
-- qualitatively
important,
that
I should
a musical
01 :
is quantitatively
01:
say.
01:
important?
01 :
01 :
say that
the
hooks
of most
popular
songs
are
important.
right.
Were
01:
you
retained
by the Gayes
in this
matter
witness?
01 :
01:
I was.
01 :
you of course
know
Judith
Finell;
correct?
01:
I do.
And
01 :
01:
did you
to the
two have
analysis
a division
of these
of responsibility
-- of the
issues
in this
01:
01:

#:9899
61
1
case?
A.
Absolutely.
01:
Q.
Okay.
01:
A.
My -- my role, I was asked to particularly
claims of the Thicke parties that whatever resemblances
between Blurred Lines and Got To Give It Up are the product of
01 :
genre or of it having existed in prior art.
01:
01:
8
9
And what was your role?

assess the
01:
exist
I was asked also to take a look at the originality
01:
of
the keyboard and bass lines.
10
01:
01:
And I was also asked to take a look at the two songs
01:
11
After The Dance and Love After War.
12
Q.
13
opinion, original?
14
A.
Yes, it is.
01:
15
Q.
And did you review the reports by Judith Finell?
01:
16
A.
Yes, I did.
01:
Okay.
And, Dr. Monson, is Got To Give It Up, in your
MR. MILLER:
18
scope of her expert disclosure.
19
MR. BUSCH:
20
MR. MILLER:
21
THE COURT:
22
MR. MILLER:
01 :
01:
17
23
01:
Your Honor, I object.
This is beyond the
01 :
01:
It's not.
01:
She did not have an opinion.
01:
As to what?
01 :
As to originality.
That was not what she
was offered.
01:
01 :
24
MR. BUSCH:
She did.
25
THE COURT:
Excuse me.
01:
Where's the report?
Your
01 :

#:9900
62
1
objection is to the originality of keyboard and bass lines?
01:
What is your objection to?
01:
MR. MILLER:
That she is now offering an opinion on --
01:
she is now offering an opinion apparently on the originality of
01 :
elements of Got To Give It Up.
01:
focus of her report.
THE COURT:
Okay.
MR. BUSCH:
We're getting it.
01:
THE COURT:
Dr. Monson, if you want water, there is
01:
10
She was not -- that was not the
01:
Let me see.
Is that an exhibit?
water behind your monitor.
01:
01 :
11
THE WITNESS:
12
MR. BUSCH:
It's 1713 and 1714.
01 :
13
THE COURT:
Where in each exhibit do you contend the
01:
14
opinion is offered as to the originality of elements of Got To
01:
15
Give It Up?
01:
Oh, great.
01:
16
MR. BUSCH:
In the section entitled prior works.
01:
17
THE COURT:
What page of Exhibit --
01 :
18
MR. BUSCH:
Page 10.
01 :
19
THE COURT:
This is 1713?
01:
20
MR. BUSCH:
1713 and then in 1714 --
01:
21
THE COURT:
Just a minute.
01:
22
MR. BUSCH:
Beginning at page -- paragraph
23
And where in 1714?
Give It Up and Blurred Lines bass lines.
7, Got To
01 :
01:
24
THE COURT:
What page is that, please?
01:
25
MR. BUSCH:
Page 2 and 3.
01:

#:9901
63
MR. MILLER:
1714 is a rebuttal report and the portion
01:
recited in 1713 responds to Ms. Wilbur's prior art example so
01:
this is all rebuttal testimony.
01:
THE COURT:
Just a minute.
01:
MR. BUSCH:
1713 is our original
01:
THE COURT:
Just a minute.
01:
says -- refers to the opposing expert in its last line; correct?
8
9
10
Well, 1713 at page 10
MR. BUSCH:
to it, your Honor.
There's also the affidavit that's attached

I'm sorry.
She incorporated
into her
report
01:
01:
01:
01:
11
THE COURT:
Just a minute.
01:
12
MR. BUSCH:
Okay.
01:
13
THE COURT:
Was there a report prepared and exchanged
01:
14
prior to Exhibit 1713?
15
MR. MILLER:
16
MR. BUSCH:
17
18
19
01:
No, your Honor.

In response to summary judgement, the
motion that was filed

THE COURT:
01:
01:
01:
I just want to know was there a report
prior to this one.
01:
01:
20
MR. BUSCH:
There was a --
01:
21
THE COURT:
That was exchanged.
01:
22
MR. BUSCH:
Yes.
01:
23
THE COURT:
Is that an exhibit?
01:
24
MR. BUSCH:
It is.
01:
25
MR. MILLER:
Your Honor, Exhibit 1713 is her initial
01:

#:9902
64
1
disclosure
2
3
on October 31st.
THE COURT:
That was the disclosure deadline.
All right.
Just a minute.
Let me talk to
you briefly.
(Sidebar conference commenced.)
01:
THE COURT:
which refers to my declaration.
filed in opposition to the motion for summary judgement?
I'm looking at Exhibit 1713, page 10,

Is that a declaration
MR. BUSCH:
Yes, your Honor.
THE COURT:
Well, was this
that was
MR. BUSCH:
01:
01:
01 :
01:
was this the first
document in which she was identified as an expert?
11
01:
01:
10
01 :
01 :
01:
She was identified as an expert in the
01 :
12
response to summary judgement motion that she had been retained
01:
13
by the Gayes --
01:
14
THE COURT:
Slow down.
01:
15
MR. BUSCH:
She had been identified in response to the
01:
16
motion for summary judgement by the Thicke parties that she was
01 :
17
retained as our expert and that she submitted a declaration
01:
18
identifying -- saying that the work was original and she
01:
19
incorporated
01:
20
it by reference into this report.
THE COURT:
Let me ask this.
Putting aside for a
01:
21
moment whether this is actually a proper disclosure, because I
01:
22
don't know that a summary judgement declaration
01:
23
consistent with what's required under the civil rules, why is
01 :
24
this not cumulative of what we have already heard?
01:
25
different?
is a disclosure
What's
01:

#:9903
65
1
2
MR.
the
BUSCH:
originality
I do not believe
component
THE
COURT:
What
MR.
BUSCH:
Because
something
that
6
7
THE
hasn't
MR.
prior
art
10
believe
11
One
been
want
discussed
that
the
mean?
It's
originality
to elicit.
by Ms.
one
How
is it different?
component
of it is
So--
originality that
by
01:
basically.
Is there
Got To Give It Up from which
Got To Give It Up not original.
01 :
-- that
That's
you
it.
MR.
Okay.
MILLER:
I take
15
that
16
distinction
in the Copyright
17
copied
someone
18
not her
19
as opposed
certain
Do you
aspects
summary
else.
Gaye
Act
between
So she has
testimony
copied
-- do you take
01:
01:
the
21
When's
22
MR. MILLER:
23
THE
COURT:
This
witness
24
MR.
BUSCH:
Yes.
I will
if not
Just
she going
some
takes
the position
01 :
which
is a
01:
testimony
as in
which
commonplace
other
01:
01:
not original
about
some
THE
COURT:
Wilbur
of it are commonplace,
judgement
to Marvin
-- Ms.
20
examples,
contend
Got To Give It Up was not original?
that
from
01:
01:
Finell?
question
01:
01 :
THE COURT:
position
01:
01:
question.
14
25
Finell
01 :
do you mean
covered
predates
is -- makes
does
What
BUSCH:
that
12
13
COURT:
already
8
9
we would
Ms.
of it.
that
01:
is
01 :
elements
01:
song.
01 :
a minute.
01:
to testify?
01:
Tuesday.
all of them,
01:
is just
tell
she used
here
today?
you that most

in summary
01 :
of the
judgement
01:
are
01:

#:9904
66
1
not
is responding
going
to be part
3
4
to something
THE COURT:
is for efficiency
MR. MILLER:
THE COURT:
do the
would
motion
Ms.
same
thing
that
No.
at trial
so I think
this
is -that.
What
I question
01:
to strike
01:
Yes,
What
be to potentially
I understand
I think
ask
if it's
you ought
that
one narrow
not
that.
something
01:
to do,
and
is difficult
question
that's
I would
01:
to be here,
01:
subject
raised
to a
01:
by
01:
Wilbur.
01:
MR. MILLER:
12
THE COURT:
will
instruct
MR. MILLER:
15
MR.
16
THE COURT:
manage
18
The
to ask
jury
19
Wilbur.
the jury
14
17
KING:
just
23
the process
24
opinions
and then
25
and then
either
to be hearing
works
-- I think
that
other
another
for you?
it.
I mean,
All
right.
asking
Thank
lawyers
let's
you,
never
Keep
can
it focused.
move.
your
Honor.
and gentlemen,
in this matter,
01:
competing
or one of -- the
you're
and the way
can testify
can offer
01:
01:
experts
is an expert
01:
01:
ended.)
Ladies
expert
01 :
01:
right.
expert
01 :
01:
conference
sometimes
one answer?
Well,
-- they're
All
work
01:
fine.
question,
I got
a new
what
Does
(Sidebar
going
Honor.
on that.
Yeah.
THE COURT:
your
that's
one question.
20
enough,
that
One
BUSCH:
22
Fair
So I think
That's
is -- they're
MR.
21
01:
01:
I understand
for any witness
11
13
testimony
reasons.
10
of her
first
and
offer
opinions
expert
may
01 :
01:
01:
01:
01 :

#:9905
67
1
rebut
matter
the
second
but
it sometimes
Dr. Monson
addressed
to testify
through
topic,
admissible.
that
then
10
expert,
that
doesn't,
12
about
Thicke
I am going
area
that
parties
do present
in every
about
may,
may,
would
And
14
it's
be
would
-- if
01 :
01:
01:
narrow
01:
be
01:
15
you hear
16
Dr. Monson's
-- if the
it.
And
Please
18
MR.
But
I just
I'll
tell
you
parties'
limited
expert
testimony
01:
you're
01 :
as to whether
you to have
you when
Mr.
Thank
01:
later
wanted
has been
proceed,
BUSCH:
-- this
instruct
testimony
17
Thicke
not be relevant.
I will
in or out.
this
that
portion
or not
in mind
01:
as
of
completed.
01:
Busch.
you,
your
01:
Honor.
01:
01:
20
Q.
21
Give It Up is an original
22
A.
Yes,
23
Q.
In your
24
within
25
A.
Dr. Monson,
01:
01:
BUSCH:
in your
expert
musical
opinion,
do you believe
Got To
composition?
I do.
expert
01:
01:
01 :
opinion,
do you believe
Got To Give It Up to be original?
Yes.
01:
01:
expert
on this
to hear
to permit
present.
that
is presented
you're
the testimony
to hear
BY MR.
necessarily
01:
then
13
the
testimony
the testimony
here,
focused
parties
If the Thicke
11
along
in a very
If the Thicke
happen
01:
things
by an expert
It doesn't
does.
To just move
19
expert.
all the elements
01:
01:
01:

#:9906
68
1
THE COURT:
That
concludes
MR.
Yes,
your
THE COURT:
what
areas
I just
which
BUSCH:
instructed
are not
Please
MR.
8
9
BY MR.
Q.
Okay.
proceed,
BUSCH:
So I asked
briefly,
11
case?
12
A.
Yes,
13
Q.
Okay.
did
you
you,
of
to other
Busch.
you,
01:
01:
01:
01:
your
Honor.
01:
the
before
reports
we got
on this
of Judith
Finell
very
01:
in this
01:
I did.
And
01 :
do you
THE WITNESS:
16
MR. MILLER:
17
THE COURT:
BY MR.
19
Q.
20
compared
21
analysis?
22
A.
25
back
part
01:
15
agree
with
Ms.
Finell?
01:
Objection.
01:
Yes.
403,
01:
your
Honor.
Sustained.
It's
01:
cumulative.
01:
BUSCH:
And
Yes,
you examined
01:
the
keyboard
and bass
to Blurred Lines in combination
in Got To Give It Up
as part
of your
01:
01:
01 :
I did.
MR. MILLER:
about
that
to my instruction.
I believe
review
MR. MILLER:
24
with
01:
14
23
finished
BUSCH:
10
18
01:
01:
We are now turning
Mr.
Thank
questioning?
Honor.
We are
you.
subject
your
01:
Same
objection,
your
Honor.
this.
THE COURT:
We've
heard
01:
01 :
Yeah.
Let's
move
on, please.
01:

#:9907
69
1
MR. BUSCH:
Your Honor, I think we need to take a
quick sidebar because
THE COURT:
01:
I want to hear the testimony concerning
matters that were not addressed by the prior expert.
go.
01:
So let's
01:
01:
01:
BY MR. BUSCH:
01:
Q.
What is a genre, Dr. Monson?
01:
A.
A genre is a large category of musical style, like jazz or
01:
classical or country music or hip hop or rock and roll.
10
Q.
11
keyboard and bass, associated with each style?
Is there one kind of ensemble part configuration,
12
MR. MILLER:
13
THE COURT:
14
Objection.
01:
such as
01:
Leading, your Honor.
It's an expert.
01:
01:
You can both lead
01:
experts.
01:
15
Do you have the question in mind?
01:
16
THE WITNESS:
01:
I do have the question in mind and yes,
17
there's not one ensemble configuration
18
style.
that goes with each
01:
It's true that in the most --
19
THE COURT:
01:
Excuse me, Dr. Monson.
Do you have some
01:
20
materials
21
in front of you and you wish to refer to them, I need to know
01:
22
what they are and when you wish to refer to them.
01 :
23
would be to refresh your recollection.
in front of you?
24
THE WITNESS:
25
THE COURT:
That's okay.
If you have materials
The purpose
01 :
That was the purpose.

That's fine.
This is your report?
01:
01:
Is
01:

#:9908
70
1
this an exhibit?
MR. BUSCH:
MR. KING:
it's not an exhibit.
THE COURT:
01:
May I approach the witness, your Honor?

I would like to see what it is, too, if
01:
01:
01:
Well, I don't think she's going to use it
right now.
01:
01:
THE WITNESS:
MR. KING:
THE COURT:
Okay.
01:
Well
But you can
01:
yes, you may see it.
01:
10
MR. KING:
11
THE COURT:
12
Well --
13
MR. KING:
14
MR. BUSCH:
Your Honor, I object to that.
01:
15
THE COURT:
Disregard -- please disregard.
01:
16
MR. KING:
17
THE COURT:
18
MR. KING:
19
Yes, you may take a look.
01:
01 :
Okay, your Honor.
It's a script.
01:
Well, I think
Excuse me.
01:
Excuse me.
If -- disregard
At the break I would like to object to
01 :
01:
01:
THE COURT:
Disregard.
We are at the very beginning
of the testimony, ladies and gentlemen, so .
22
23
01:
this.
20
21
I would like to see it.
01:
01:
BY MR. BUSCH:
24
Q.
25
keyboard and bass associated with each style?
Is there one part of ensemble part configurations
01:
01 :
such as
01:
01:

#:9909
71
1
A.
in order
most
For example,
jazz,
be a bass
hear
offbeat
No.
For musicians
to fill
basic
form
of a musical
expert
on all
a swing
there
But musicians
11
creative
12
And
13
choices.
14
Q.
and
Very
innovative
in my view,
And
when
they
I think
So, Dr. Monson
01:
in the
a swing
style
in
01:
bass,
which
would
01:
to
01:
those
You would
and you would
expect
expect
to hear
keyboard.
limited
by those
expectations
go beyond
do that,
the case
that
those
those
MR.
16
THE COURT:
01 :
01:
01 :
very
often
01:
expectations.
become
01 :
compositional
01:
in Got To Give It Up.
01:
--
15
BY MR.
often
you to play
on the
that's
Very
01:
to be a walking
pieces
01:
expectation.
are never
often
can be made
a basic
cymbal,
parts
that
there's
of the bar.
on the
accompaniment
prescriptions.
17
asked
choices
of a style.
style
four beats
rhythm
10
are many
the expectations
if somebody
you would
there
01:
MILLER:
Objection.
Strike
Move
the last
to strike.
01:
phrase.
01:
BUSCH:
01:
18
Q.
19
changed?
20
A.
Absolutely.
21
this
really
22
this.
23
popular
24
parts
25
Q.
Dr. Monson,
are
combinations
always
being
developed
and
01:
01:
And
go back
The history
music
in fact,
and
look
of many
really
are
many
of us who
at the history
of the big
about
of musical
changes
innovations
are historians
do you mean
01 :
as
01:
in American
that
occur
of the ensemble.
And what
style
of
in these
01 :
01:
01:
when
you
say that
sometimes
01 :

#:9910
72
1
divergences
A.
expectation
ensemble
Q.
Okay.
bass
line
generic
That
are distinctive
means
that
of a genre
And
with
rhythm
in your
THE COURT:
MR.
create
add
is -- what
something
something
is an
new.
01:
The new
01 :
new.
01:
Got To Give It Up and the
to the
harmonic
accompaniment,
01:
is that
01:
01:
MILLER:
Objection.
Restate
403.
the
01:
question
because
I don't
want
BUSCH:
01:
01:
I don't
believe
-- okay.
01:
Is
01:
13
THE
14
the areas
15
please;
16
Thanks.
17
respect
what
to be cumulative.
11
Q.
often
01:
view?
12
go beyond
and offbeat
MR.
this
original?
and they
configurations
10
they
and
COURT:
Based
of expertise
not
just
on -- this
of Dr. Monson
repeating
the
-- I want
in framing
testimony
that
you to focus
your
we've
on
questions,
heard.
01:
01:
01:
01:
BY MR.
BUSCH:
01:
18
Q.
19
accompaniment
20
A.
No.
01:
21
Q.
Why?
01:
22
A.
Why?
23
does
not
24
most
Motown
25
It has
Is the
combination
of bass
line
rhythm
in Got To Give It Up generic
Because
first
of all,
-- it -- it does
bass
a kind
lines,
of start
it's
not have
the
for example.
and stop
rhythm
and offbeat
in your mind?
an unusual
same
It's
that
harmonic
bass
rhythmic
something
01:
01:
line.
It
01:
profile
as
01 :
different.
I can describe
to
01:
01:

#:9911
73
1
you.
And
which
is also
R&B piece
Q.
component
A.
phrase.
And musically
on beats
2 and
Oa, stop;
All
it's
something
And
14
Please
BY MR.
budop,
going
accompaniment
to hear
part,
in a Motown
01:
or
do you mean
stop;
by the
start
and
stop
has been
focus
to the bass
speaking,
budop,
line,
it has
stop.
it's
a 2-measure
-- it rests
So here
Objection.
01:
is how
403,
your
for a while
I would
So it starts
01 :
do it:
and it stops.
Honor.
Same
issue
01:
01:
01:
01:
01:
I think
offered
on those.
this
with
Thank
is cumulative.
different
areas
So, please,
01:
of expertise.
01:
you.
01:
BUSCH:
01:
Q.
Is the
17
what
you believe
18
It
explanation
you
just
to be original
gave
for the bass
to the bass
line
line,
is that
of Got To Give
Up?
01 :
01:
01:
19
MR.
20
THE COURT:
21
I want
art matters
MILLER:
that
have
MR.
24
THE COURT:
questions.
Same
Just
objection,
BUSCH:
Honor.
Sidebar.
described.
That
is exactly
then,
01:
01:
to focus
been
Well,
your
a minute.
the questions
23
your
01:
01:
over.
16
25
you're
3 in each measure.
THE COURT:
the expert
offbeat
line?
if you listen
we went
13
22
what
MR. MILLER:
that
this
01:
of the bass
Well,
with
often.
right.
12
15
not
very
10
11
combined
on the genre
or prior
01:
01:
what
focus
I was
on those,
trying
please,
to do.
01:
in
01:
01:

#:9912
74
1
Do you understand
THE WITNESS:
THE COURT:
01:
Yes, I do.
01:
Thanks.
01:
BY MR. BUSCH:
01 :
Q.
It Up is not generic?
A.
Would you please explain why the bass line in Got To Give
MR. MILLER:
THE COURT:
01:
01:
Well, I just --
10
that as well, Dr. Monson?
01:
Same objection.
All right.
Overruled.
01:
This is the process that we
01 :
And you will just have to be
01 :
Excuse me, Dr. Monson.
11
hundreds of years of tradition.
12
patient with that.
01 :
Thank you.
01:
13
Would you read the question, please.
01:
14
MR. BUSCH:
Okay.
01:
15
THE COURT:
Read the question, please.
01:
16
17
18
(Record Read)
THE COURT:
Do you understand
01:
that question within the
realm of your expertise?
19
THE WITNESS:
20
THE COURT:
21
THE WITNESS:
01:
01:
Yes, I do.
Okay.
01:
Please proceed.
01:
So what I was trying to explain is that
01:
22
start and stop rhythm is not generic to a Motown bass line.
23
you were to take a look at James Jamerson's bass lines, he's
01 :
24
he's the bassist who really defined Motown bass style -- he
01:
25
doesn't play in that kind of rhythm.
01:
So that's why I say it
If
01:

#:9913
75
1
does not point to -- it has elements -- similar to Motown in the
01:
sense that there are some syncopated bass lines and it's
01:
melodic, but it does not replicate the characteristic
01:
the Motown genre in bass playing.
the bass line in Got To Give It Up is original and why they took
01:
the trouble to write it down into the copyright deposit.
01:
rhythms of
And that's why I think that
BY MR. BUSCH:
01:
And is the combination of keyboard and bass line in
Q.
combination
01:
running throughout
Got To Give It Up generic in your
01:
01:
10
opinion?
11
A.
No.
12
Q.
Why is that?
01:
13
A.
Okay.
01:
14
It Up has this offbeat pattern that's going on it.
15
were to try to figure out some genre that had that offbeat
01:
16
accompaniment,
01:
17
perhaps ragtime and early jazz.
18
the offbeat accompaniment,
19
the rhythm of Marvin Gaye's bass line accompaniment.
01:
Absolutely not.
01:
The keyboard in both Blurred Lines and Got To Give

Now, if you
you would probably either think of reggae or

But in reggae or ragtime with
01:
you would never have a bass line in
01:
So in my view, the combination of the bass line and
20
01:
01:
02:
21
the offbeat accompaniment part is absolutely not dictated by
02:
22
genre.
02:
23
MR. BUSCH:
Your Honor, I'm going to assume that if I
02:
24
ask questions about whether the keyboard or bass line is in the
02:
25
deposit copy lead sheet, that would be --
02:

#:9914
76
1
THE COURT:
It's cumulative.
02:
MR. BUSCH:
All right.
02:
Thank you.
Q.
I now want to move to prior art, Dr. Monson.
02:
A.
Yes.
02:
Q.
What is prior art?
02:
A.
Well, prior art would be pieces that came before Got To
02:
Give It Up.
Q.
Okay.
A.
Well, I look at pieces that happened before Got To Give It
02:
10
Up.
I like to look a little bit after as well because I like to
02:
11
get a sense of when certain kinds of musical devices come into
02:
12
the repertory in popular music.
02:
13
Q.
And did you do that in this case?
02:
14
A.
I did.
02:
15
Q.
How?
02:
16
A.
I did that based on my 24-plus years of experience as a
02:
17
researcher, a teacher and a listener and a musician.
18
have drawn on my knowledge of that repertory.
19
is when I listen to a piece of popular music, I kind of say
02:
20
well, okay, what kind of genres are possibly being invoked here,
02:
21
and that's where I begin my search.
02:
22
02:
And how do you go about researching prior art?
MR. MILLER:
And where I start
Your Honor, I believe this all should be
23
subject to the instruction you gave earlier.
24
responding.
25
02:
It seems to be
Prior art --
THE COURT:
All right.
02:
02:
02:
02:
02:
I'll explain -- ladies and
02:

#:9915
77
1
gentlemen,
I may be instructing
you later that some portions of
this testimony would be admissible only depending on the
testimony of the expert offered by the Thicke parties.
We'll
02:
sort that out so you don't have to wait for us to do it right
02:
now.
02:
02:
02:
Go ahead, please.
02:
But please try to -- to the extent that you are
02:
seeking to present something that you think would be rebuttal,
02:
let me know in advance.
02:
10
11
MR. BUSCH:
Okay.
02:
BY MR. BUSCH:
02:
12
Q.
13
accompaniment parts, keyboard and bass as Got To Give It Up?
14
A.
In your research, did you find prior art that had the same
No.
15
16
02:
02:
MR. BUSCH:
Did -- and this will be -- this is -- the
next question will be responsive to your Honor's
17
02:
THE COURT:
All right.
Then, ladies and gentlemen,
02:
02:
02:
18
this will be admissible only if I later direct you that it's
02:
19
rebuttal and I can't tell you that yet because we haven't heard
02:
20
the other expert.
02:
21
22
Go ahead.
BY MR. BUSCH:
23
Q.
24
parties,
25
were remotely close to Got To Give It Up?
Did Ms. Wilbur, who is the expert retained by the Thicke

find any instances of prior art that in your opinion,
02:
02:
02:
02:
02:

#:9916
78
1
MR. MILLER:
THE COURT:
gentlemen.
This
Objection.
Okay.
may
You may
THE WITNESS:
BY MR.
Same
foundation.
instruction,
and
02:
02:
answer.
02:
No.
02:
02:
Q.
examples
A.
Yes,
I have.
10
Q.
Okay.
And
11
that
Ms. Wilbur
12
A.
Well,
In -- you have
that Ms.
reviewed
Wilbur
the items,
the allegedly
art
02:
02:
02:
is there
cites,
a general
in your
examples
13
THE COURT:
Same
14
THE WITNESS:
theme
regarding
art
--
02:
instruction,
In those
ladies
examples,
and gentlemen.
very
16
Give It Up and Blurred Lines is referenced.
17
line.
only
02:
02:
art
in which
the prior
opinion?
15
is cited
prior
cited?
in those
one of the parts
often
that
are
02:
a prior
in Got To
For example,
a bass
02:
02:
02:
02:
In no
18
in none
19
of keyboard
20
judgment
21
the things
22
Lines are the keyboard
23
relevant
24
BY MR.
Q.
ladies
BUSCH:
25
02:
be stricken.
Lacks
and bass
about
that
prior
what
are
line
of those
examples
addressed.
And
relevant
shared
and
art would
prior
art
is the
to me
is that
combination
in my -- my own
is -- that
since
In your
02:
02:
in Got To Give It Up and Blurred
02:
the bass
02:
need
part,
to include
that
both
any -- any
of those
things.
BUSCH:
Okay.
02:
02:
02:
opinion,
do you believe
that
Ms. Wilbur
has
02:

#:9917
79
1
not done
an appropriate
THE COURT:
non-rebuttal
let's
move
me.
I thought
THE COURT:
Mr.
there
02:
Busch,
was but
BUSCH:
There's
to
one question
Let's
a few questions
just move
02:
so
02:
--
02:
on, please.
It's
too
02:
02:
MR.
her back
BUSCH:
if we need
Okay.
But we reserve
right
to call
02:
02:
Yes.
11
MR.
BUSCH:
All
right.
12
THE COURT:
Any
objection
13
MR. MILLER:
14
MR.
BY MR.
the
to?
THE COURT:
02:
No,
BUSCH:
All
your
Thank
you.
02:
to that?
02:
Honor.
02:
right.
02:
BUSCH:
02:
16
Q.
17
create
18
To Give It Up and Blurred Lines?
19
A.
Yes,
20
Q.
Can
21
A.
Well,
22
Give It Up and Blurred Lines to compare
23
audio
25
move
02:
10
24
let's
much.
15
--
on, please.
MR.
Excuse
areas.
methodology
Did you work,

comparison
Ms.
-- Dr. Monson,
media
mash-ups
with
an audio
demonstrating
engineer
or comparing
to
02:
Got
02:
02:
I did.
you
02:
explain
Ms.
engineer
Finell
and
to prepare
In the
Give It Up with
how
first
Robin
these
mash-ups
I selected
three
one,
passages
prepared?
02:
from both
and then
Got To
we asked
an
examples.
we have
Thicke's
were
vocal
the
02:
02:
02:
accompaniment
to Blurred Lines
to Got To
02:
02:

#:9918
80
1
superimposed.
02:
In the
2
3
Blurred
Lines
top.
Q.
And
then
A.
The
third
with
Marvin
hook,
Q.
And
10
A.
Yes.
11
It Up was
12
vocal
13
Q.
Okay.
14
have
any bearing
15
A.
No.
16
Q.
With
17
was
18
A.
19
you'll
20
and Marvin
21
of A.
22
Q.
23
either
24
A.
25
Blurred
second
with
one,
Marvin
we have
Gaye's
the
vocal
accompaniment
superimposed
to
over
02:
the
02:
02:
what
is the
example
Gaye's
from
the
in example
line
but
02:
later
part
No.1,
there
was
down
one
step
to Blurred
in your
to Blurred
in the piece,
Lines
from
02:
the
of the piece.
any
to the
part
02:
02:
transposing
1, the accompaniment
of the melody
And
from
on dancin'
In example
transposed
example?
is the accompaniment
vocal
keep
third
done?
to Got
02:
To Give
key of G to match
the
Lines.
02:
02:
02:
opinion,
as you
said
earlier,
on the validity
of the
comparison
does
that
in your
02:
02:
02:
respect
there
to examples
any transposing
In examples
hear
2 and
vocal
3 that
or pitchshifting
3 there
is the Blurred
Gaye's
2 and
was
Lines
we're
going
done
at all?
no pitchshifting
accompaniment
at its original
pitch
to hear,
02:
done.
What
in the key of G
level
02:
in the
key
02:
02:
02:
02:
And
was
audio
Well,
there
example
Got
Lines
any tempo
whatsoever
done
to
02:
2 or 3?
To Give
was
adjustment
02:
It Up was
120 beats
about
per minute
122 beats
so there
per minute
was a slight
and
02:
02:

#:9919
81
1
adjustment
in tempo, less than one percent.
Q.
Is that significant or insignificant?
02:
A.
Insignificant.
02:
Q.
And why was it done?
02:
A.
It was done to facilitate the proper overlay of the parts.
02:
Q.
And were these audio examples taken straight from the
02:
respective multi-tracks,
A.
Yes, they were.
Q.
And did you personally
10
faithful to the --
11
A.
12
13
02:
the individual tracks of those songs?
02:
listen to them to ensure they were
02:
02:
Yes, I did.
MR. BUSCH:
02:
02:
All right.
Would you please play audio
example one?
02:
02:
14
MR. MILLER:
Objection,
your Honor.
The role of the
15
expert is extrinsic testimony.
16
Ms. Finell to show similarities between the two songs
This has been gone over by
02:
02:
02:
17
MR. BUSCH:
These are different mash-ups.
02:
18
THE COURT:
Okay.
02:
Overruled.
But I want to be clear
19
that the tracks that were used from Got To Give It Up are the
02:
20
ones that have been permitted to be used here.
02:
21
MR. BUSCH:
Absolutely,
22
THE COURT:
Thank you.
23
MR. BUSCH:
This is comparison
24
THE CLERK:
What exhibit number is it?
25
THE WITNESS:
377.
your Honor.
02:
02:
l.
02:
02:
02:

#:9920
82
MR.
This
(Whereupon,
2
3
BUSCH:
BY MR.
first
the audio
one
was
is 377.
played
Exhibit
377.
02:
for the jury.)
02:
02:
BUSCH:
Dr. Monson,
compositionally
Q.
show,
A.
accompaniment
work
composition
contains
10
composition
contains.
11
starts
12
accompaniment
13
over
in your
Well,
does
this
audio
example
02:
opinion?
first
02:
of all,
works
as well
what
very
it shows
well
as it sounds
changing,
many
that
together.
because
more
it works
And
chords
it really
02:
shouldn't
very
in, the bass
well
to the Blurred Lines melody
02:
line
as an
going
So it shows
15
similarities
we heard
16
a sectional
17
that
the melodies
18
Q.
In your
19
resolve
20
A.
Absolutely.
21
Q.
And
22
conflict?
23
A.
24
chord
25
are
level
with
what
There
that
all the way
then
in addition
yesterday,
and a phrasing
and harmonies
opinion,
02:
02:
then
about
02:
02:
to the -- to the hook.
14
02:
02:
the Blurred Lines
than
30 seconds
very,
and the
Got To Give It Up
the
So at about
but
the melody
do these
there
level
are
to all the
02:
are similarities
here.
And
it also
at
shows
compatible.
-- do these
two
02:
02:
02:
comparisons
02:
no conflict?
02:
02:
do you mean
when
you
say they
resolve
with
no
02:
02:
is a slight
doesn't
match
tension
as well
in Got To Give It Up.
right
because
But
before
the hook
of the differing
it really
where
chords
is just momentary
the
that
and
02:
02:
02:

#:9921
83
1
it resolves right after that.
Q.
mean to you as a musicologist,
A.
It means that it goes back to a very consonant place and
02:
leaves you with a resolved feeling that the passages that are
02:
overlaying
02:
Q.
play audio example No.2.
Gaye vocal with the Blurred Lines instrumental?
02:
And what does the fact that it resolves with no conflict
02:
fit together.
All right.
Yes.
in your opinion?
What is audio example No.2
02:
-- we're about to
02:
I believe you say that's the Marvin
02:
02:
We've got the Blurred Lines accompaniment
and we've
10
A.
11
got the Marvin Gaye vocal line and they are each in their
02:
12
original pitch levels.
02:
13
THE COURT:
What's the exhibit number?
14
MR. BUSCH:
Same exhibit number, 377.
15
17
02:
Page 3 of that
exhibit.
02:
02:
16
02:
BY MR. BUSCH:
02:
02:
Dr. Monson, as -- in your compositional
analysis -- first
18
Q.
19
of all, let me ask you, you said this one there was no
02:
20
transposing,
02:
21
A.
That's right.
22
Q.
And why is that the case?
23
A.
Well, we could have transposed
24
overlaying would have been even stronger.
25
struck with is it sounded pretty darned good, even without being
no pitchshifting?
There was no pitchshifting.
02:
02:
02:
it and this -- and the

But what we were
02:
02:
02:

#:9922
84
1
transposed,
and that's rather unusual in pieces that are only a
step apart.
Q.
show?
A.
rhythms and phrase structure are compatible between the --
02:
between the pieces.
02:
Q.
reconciliation
02:
02:
And so what, in your expert, opinion does this example
02:
02:
It shows, as I said before, that the melodies, harmonies,
Do you believe that this -- that your conclusion
about the
of these pieces assists the analysis that they
02:
02:
02:
10
are similar pieces?
11
A.
12
all the other similarities,
13
happening at a larger scale, more sectional level of the piece.
14
Q.
15
would the parts clash, in your mind?
16
A.
Yes, they would.
02:
17
Q.
Okay.
02:
18
Absolutely
Okay.
02:
it does.
All right.
As I said a moment ago, in addition to

this shows something that's
And if there weren't these similarities,
All right.
02:
02:
with his keyboard, was in fact the same
02:
20
type of mash-up that we are displaying here?
21
THE COURT:
22
MR. MILLER:
25
02:
By the way, do you agree that what Robin Thicke did on

the stand was in fact
24
02:
02:
19
23
02:
02:
Just a moment.
Objection.
02:
Beyond the scope.
This is
not part of the report.

THE COURT:
That's true.
02:
02:
All right.
Sustained.
02:
02:

#:9923
85
1
BY MR. BUSCH:
02:
Q.
Got To Give It Up combined with the Blurred Lines accompaniment;
02:
correct?
02:
A.
Yes.
02:
Q.
And once again, is either of these songs transposed?
02:
A.
No, it's not transposed.
02:
Q.
And why was there no transposition here as well?
02:
A.
Well, it was the same sort of thing.
02:
Audio example 3 is Marvin's vocals from the outgrowth of
We could have made it
02:
10
stronger by transposing
11
transposition
12
And we took this section as from later in the piece, it's at the
02:
13
chorus section, the keep on dancin' section of Marvin Gaye's
02:
14
piece.
02:
15
16
it.
We thought it sounded good without
and so we wanted -- wanted people to hear that.

BY MR. BUSCH:
02:
02:
02:
02:
17
Q.
And what is your expert opinion about these comparisons?
02:
18
A.
Well, this final comparison shows you that -- that this
02:
19
similarity is operating not only at the beginning
20
but at the end of the piece.
21
by this that I'd like to raise is it strongly suggests --
22
MR. MILLER:
23
THE COURT:
24
25
The other thing that is suggested
There is no question.
Wait, wait, just focus on the questions
first, Dr. Monson.

THE WITNESS:
of the piece
02:
02:
02:
02:
02:
02:
Okay.
02:

#:9924
86
THE COURT:
1
2
3
BY MR.
Q.
What
else
is suggested
THE COURT:
Okay.
Q.
comparison?
A.
Well,
suggests
11
created
Well,
What
else
02:
02:
sustained.
Restate
the
question.
02:
do you
find
significant
about
this
02:
02:
the
that
fact
that
these
it's possible
overlays
that
while
work
as well
as they
do
Blurred Lines was being
THE WITNESS:
Your
Honor.
-- Got To Give It
Up was
playing
in the
MR. MILLER:
16
THE COURT:
the case.
It's
Next
19
Go ahead.
strong?
23
A.
Strike
question,
that
02:
It's
response.
not part
of
of the case.
please.
do you believe
02:
02:
It's
not an area
of expertise.
02:
02:
BUSCH:
Why
22
Objection.
not part
18
Q.
02:
02:
15
21
02:
02:
background.
BY MR.
02:
02:
13
20
piece?
02:
MR. MILLER:
17
by this
Objection.
12
14
02:
BUSCH:
10
please.
02:
MR. MILLER:
BY MR.
question,
BUSCH:
Next
02:
that
-- that
this
audio
comparison
is so
02:
02:
Well
02:
24
MR. MILLER:
25
THE COURT:
Objection.
This
sounds
Vague,
your
cumulative.
Honor.
02:
02:

#:9925
87
1
2
What's
BY MR.
the next
question?
02:
BUSCH:
02:
Q.
you think
A.
I think
that
have
strong
Q.
And
A.
Because
10
Q.
Okay.
11
A.
Yes,
12
Q.
And
13
After The Dance and Love After War; is that
14
A.
Yes.
That's
15
Q.
Okay.
And
16
Dance and Love After War?
17
A.
Yes,
18
Q.
Okay.
19
analysis,
20
Dance, Marvin
21
A.
Do you have
any other
that
already
been
why
audio
example
that
-- the
identified
level
and shows
of similarities
that
there
is this
as well.
you
02:
work
is another
so well
song
together.
involved
02:
in this
case.
02:
is.
02:
actually
are the person
we've
asked
to analyze
02:
correct?
02:
correct.
have
you
02:
analyzed
the
of After
compositions
The
02:
First,
before
I ask you
know whether
Gaye's
I read
Robin
THE COURT:
any questions
Thicke
knows
about
about
your
After The
After The Dance?
his deposition
23
--
Objection.
It's not
BUSCH:
02:
02:
02:
02:
Calls
an area
for speculation.
of expertise.
Next
please.
MR.
02:
02:
I have.
do you
02:
02:
the overlays
There
02:
02:
is that?
there
Well,
to the
similarity
MR. MILLER:
25
this
02:
it adds
structural
question,
about
is important?
22
24
opinion
02:
02:
02:
It's part
of her
review
of information,
02:

#:9926
88
1
your
THE
2
3
02:
Honor.
purpose
here
COURT:
MR.
THE COURT:
Please
move
BUSCH:
Well,
expertise
this
That's
move
not
goes
on, please.
comparing
the
The
02:
songs.
02:
to access.
an area
of her
02:
expertise.
02:
02:
on.
MR.
Let's
is for musicological
Sustained.
BUSCH:
Do you have
Okay.
02:
an opinion
regarding
Q.
The Dance and Love After War?
similarity
between
After
02:
02:
10
A.
Yes,
I do.
11
Q.
Okay.
12
A.
My opinion
13
piece
14
Q.
And
15
A.
Well,
16
earlier
17
Q.
Okay.
18
A.
I applied
19
Q.
And
20
determine
21
particularly
22
After War and After The Dance?
23
A.
24
There
25
melodic
And
how
what
is your
is that
are very,
very
the
I used
opinion?
02:
choruses
or hook
sections
of each
02:
02:
similar.
did you make
that
determination?
the same methodology
that
02:
I talked
about
02:
02:
in my testimony.
And
did you apply

it to this
is there
the
Right.
applicable
I want
to these
-- to these
manner
of two very
to your
of melodic
pieces?
02:
two pieces.
02:
that musicologists
similar
analysis
pieces
with
that
respect
use
to
is
02:
02:
to Love
02:
02:
to add a concept
types
similarity
that
any specific
existence
are many
02:
of musical
similarity.
is the one we've
been
The
talking
similarity
here.
02:
first
kind
of
02:
about
most
of
02:

#:9927
89
1
the
time
where
the pitches
THE
THE WITNESS:
MR.
MILLER:
THE
COURT:
Please
THE WITNESS:
pitches
move
COURT:
Slow
Just
11
the melody.
12
other
13
musical
14
here
15
The War -- Love After War.
16
So you take
in the
BY MR.
02:
nonresponsive.
02:
02:
02:
Where
the pitches,
the
same
02:
02:
of melodic
is where
a melody
same
between
similarity
you make
and where
That
amount.
is called
comparison
--
answer.
kind
and that
relationship
move
direction.
called
in the
02:
a minute.
Okay.
another
down
the pitches
your
10
moves
02:
please.
Objection,
in the same
inversion,
--
down,
Where
finish
There's
move
an inversion
that
a mirror
image
one moves
-- that
up,
kind
and it's
is
02:
of
the
02:
of
02:
present
02:
After The Dance and Love After
02:
02:
BUSCH:
And
02:
is there
another
principle
17
Q.
18
forgive
19
another
20
A.
21
melodic
22
set of notes
23
at the end and
go backwards.
24
Q.
Okay.
so in this
25
After The Dance and Love After War?
me,
02:
it might
be the
same
called
retrograde?
as inversion,
but
And
02:
is there
02:
02:
Yes.
It's
another
similarity.
but
And
one of these
What
instead
retrograde
of starting
musical
means
categories
is you have
at the beginning,
of
02:
the same
02:
you
02:
start
02:
case,
what
are those
similarities
in
02:
02:

#:9928
90
Okay.
The
similarities
A.
Love After The War, first
THE
Could
asked
COURT:
several
BY MR.
of all
One
things.
this
Take
The Dance and
--
second,
you break
of After
in the hooks
02:
please.
down,
them
02:
please?
Because
one at a time.
Thank
you've
02:
you.
02:
BUSCH:
What
02:
are
the respective
Q.
The Dance that you found
A.
First
02:
of all,
to be very
the harmony.
10
variation
of a 2-5-1
11
harmonic
12
a G sharp
13
next
bar.
14
Q.
And
15
A.
They're
16
another
17
Q.
Go ahead.
18
A.
The
other
similarity
19
the hook
being
in a mirror
20
have
21
to G.
And
22
image
going
23
both
24
Dance.
25
Q.
rhythm
pieces
02:
similar?
02:
The melodies
progression.
of that
of Love After War and After
The melodies
progression.
on the end of 4 and
the
And both
G sharp
occur
over
follow
melodies
is held
over
02:
the
02:
land
into
on
02:
the
02:
02:
are these
found
similarities
found
in the hooks
in the hooks
of the songs.
of the
songs?
There's
02:
02:
02:
the hook
melody
what
versions
Okay.
02:
has
or inversion
to After
you have
to do then
are
the melodies
relationship.
The Dance going
from
in Love After War is then
from B to A to G sharp,
of this
with
in the
and what's
copyright
of
02:
So you
02:
E to F sharp
02:
the mirror
02:
interesting
deposit
of After
is
The
02:
02:
02:
So can we put
up the
copyright
deposit
of After
The
02:

#:9929
91
1
Dance?
02:
THE COURT:
What's the exhibit, please?
02:
MR. BUSCH:
49?
02:
THE COURT:
Thank you.
249?
249, your Honor.
02:
BY MR. BUSCH:
02:
So can you show me where the hook is, Dr. Monson, in After
Q.
The Dance.
A.
want me so why don't we get together after the dance.
Okay.
10
02:
It's on page 2 of the sheet?
02:
Yes, you can see it on the words I want you and you
02:
02:
You see right here the pitches, the main pitches of
02:
11
the melody on I want you are E, F sharp and G sharp.
12
want me, it's E, F sharp and G sharp also.
13
the E, F sharp and G sharp also and then there's a different
02:
14
concluding phrase.
02:
15
Q.
16
in Mr. Thicke's Love After War?
17
A.
18
War, instead of going from A to F sharp to G sharp, it goes from
02:
19
B to A to G sharp.
02:
20
E.
21
them, they would be exact reflections of one another.
22
Okay.
Okay.
And on you
02:
And why don't we has
02:
And how are -- how is that hook similar to the hook
They're in a very similar rhythm and in Love After
So it descends from B instead of rising from
And if you were to, you know, place a mirror in between
And the inversion, the B to A to G sharp version, is
02:
02:
02:
02:
02:
02:
23
what Marvin Gaye sings in a later iteration of the hook that
02:
24
we -- that's on the copyright deposit.
02:
25
Q.
So is that on the last page of the copyright deposit?
02:

#:9930
92
1
A.
words
Yeah.
It's
So he's
isn't
to G sharp.
exactly
6
this
ascending
Q.
time
the
added
a syllable
same,
but
can
find
so the
see it descends
then
when
he sings
the next
version
from
E to F sharp
Okay.
Can you demonstrate
A.
Yes,
12
Q.
You will
13
lecture
the hooks,
on the
it on the
rhythm
from
B to A
phrase
of the hook,
he goes
back
to the
02:
to G sharp.
the mirror
02:
melodies
of these
two
keyboard?
have
02:
to wait
for me to ask a question.
Don't
02:
02:
us the melody
of the
first
four bars
of
Can you play
19
After War?
BY MR.
on the
keyboard.)
02:
02:
us the melody
of the first
four
bars
of Love
02:
02:
(The witness
20
plays
BUSCH:
Q.
02:
02:
(The witness
18
02:
02:
After The Dance?
BY MR.
02:
02:
or speak.
16
02:
02:
I can.
Can you play
14
you
on why don't we
11
plays
the
keyboard.)
02:
BUSCH:
22
Q.
23
The Dance in the lower
25
you
in the end
back
choruses,
24
there
02:
he goes
10
21
And
02:
And
17
page.
Oh, I want you, okay?
15
on the next
Can you now play
(The witness
BY MR. BUSCH:
02:
the
two melodies
together
octave?
plays
the
playing
After
02:
02:
keyboard.)
02:
02:

#:9931
93
Can
you now play
Q.
decorative
second
BY MR.
Can
The Dance?
02:
02:
the
keyboard.)
02:
02:
Play
that
them
BY MR.
together
with
from After
the melody
together?
(The witness
Q.
its
out?
plays
you now play
Q.
with
BUSCH:
E left
(The witness
Love After War melody
the
plays
02:
the
keyboard.)
02:
BUSCH:
And
what
02:
is the
similarity
compositionally
10
just heard?
11
A.
This
is a relationship
inversion
12
that
they
work
of accompaniments
13
That's
14
Q.
that
we have
02:
02:
kind
Okay.
well
as kind
of a cool
Thank
thing
about
and
you can
kind
of hear
to one another.
inversion.
02:
02:
anything
16
musical
17
A.
18
piece.
19
important
20
in both
21
Q.
22
on the chorus
23
A.
24
saw the similarities.
25
Q.
else
that
is important
to your
02:
analysis?
Well,
02:
I also
And
took
in this
part
a look
case,
this
of the piece
at how
often
kind
of very
is also
it appeared
in the
02:
qualitatively
quantitatively
very
02:
present
pieces.
02:
02:
And before
you
look
at the chart,
why
did
you concentrate
02:
hooks?
I concentrated
Okay.
02:
02:
you.
Is there
15
02:
And
02:
on the chorus
can you
hooks
because
that's
where
02:
02:
show
us the
chart
for After
The Dance
02:

#:9932
94
1
that
you prepared?
02:
THE COURT:
What's
MR.
I am pulling
your
BUSCH:
the exhibit,
Is this
MR.
BUSCH:
Yes.
THE COURT:
Then
BY MR.
Q.
02:
a demonstrative
exhibit?
02:
02:
elicit
the
testimony
first,
please.
Okay.
So the demonstrative
11
prepare
12
A.
13
piece
14
hook
section
15
Q.
And
16
A.
Yes,
in Marvin
that
Gaye's
shows
how many
composition,
After
times
how did
you
it?
I made
a -- I made
a diagram
I highlighted
so you
is this
could
based
of all
the
the
section
see how
often
on the deposit
sections
in the
-- I highlighted
the
it appears.
02:
copy
lead
MR. MILLER:
02:
02:
02:
sheet?
it is.
02:
02:
Your
Honor,
I would
object
to this
exhibit.
02:
02:
THE COURT:
19
02:
02:
and then
17
02:
02:
The Dance repeats
20
377,
BUSCH:
10
18
377.
it up.
02:
THE COURT:
02:
Honor.
please?
What
page
of the
exhibit
are you proposing
to publish?
02:
02:
BUSCH:
Page
9.
21
MR.
22
MR. MILLER:
23
THE COURT:
I understand.
24
MR. MILLER:
It's based
25
THE COURT:
If you
Just
02:
at the
look
top,
your
Honor.
02:
02:
on the
a minute.
sound
recording.
02:
02:

#:9933
95
1
MR. MILLER:
THE COURT:
you proceed
with
the nature
of her
information.
THE COURT:
11
And
of the nature
on the
review
of her
02:
of the relevant
02:
--
02:
if she wishes
to this
to refer
to
02:
02:
BUSCH:
She
--
Excuse
02:
To refresh
me.
recollection,
her
02:
02:
MR.
BUSCH:
Okay.
13
Q.
Do you -- do you
14
have
identified
15
A.
Yes,
16
Q.
And
17
copy
lead
18
A.
Yes.
02:
know how
repeats
often
in After
the hook
chorus
that
you
The Dance?
is that
02:
based
on the number
of repeats
in the deposit
sheet?
02:
02:
02:
THE COURT:
20
MR.
What's
MILLER:
the objection?
I thought
he was
Was
asking
there
about
--
02:
the sound.
BUSCH:
And
02:
02:
I do.
19
BY MR.
02:
--
she may.
12
21
So why don't
--
THE COURT:
10
based
Well
BUSCH:
MR.
in terms
reference.
02:
her
02:
I see the time
opinions
MR.
refresh
reference
the witness
The
how
often
22
Q.
23
Dance?
24
A.
Nine
times.
25
Q.
And
how much
02:
02:
does
the
chorus
or hook
repeat
in After
The
02:
02:
02:
of the composition
does
it take
up?
02:

#:9934
96
1
A.
About
55 percent.
Q.
Okay.
3
4
let's
demonstrative,
your
Dr. Monson
her
see
BY MR.
needs
I would
Why
to have
don't
her
this
02:
you use
the
recollection
same process?
refreshed,
If
we can have
02:
02:
02:
BUSCH:
02:
How
10
A.
In Love After War, it's
11
or about
12
Q.
13
timing
14
A.
Yeah.
15
Q.
If I told
often
is the same
47 percent
with
repeated
repeated
in Love After War?
seven
and a quarter
times
of the piece.
respect
in which
chorus
to the
it appears
I'd have
recording
itself,
to see the chart
you it was
from
THE COURT:
Wait
17
Dr. Monson,
there's
13 out of 17.
19
THE WITNESS:
20
THE COURT:
21
THE WITNESS:
22
THE COURT:
23
THE WITNESS:
24
THE COURT:
25
THE WITNESS:
know
the
to
02:
02:
there
which
is -- has been
see that?
Here
we are.
02:
that.
02:
02:
if you turn
to tab
377 in that
Yes.
Is that
Yes.
02:
02:
Okay.
And
02:
02:
a book
can have
02:
02:
--
13, yes.
You
do you
a second.
Do you
02:
02:
in Love After War?
16
labeled
to use
something.
Q.
18
like
02:
02:
And
Love After War.
Thicke's
Honor
THE COURT:
go to Robin
can
Do you
Now,
02:
book.
02:
02:
the material
This
--
is the material.
02:
02:

#:9935
97
1
THE COURT:
this
the question.
Dr. Monson,
is to see if it refreshes
It's
not
just
THE WITNESS:
THE COURT:
What
MR.
THE COURT:
Thank
Do you have
that
10
THE WITNESS:
11
THE COURT:
12
going
page,
BUSCH:
to have
Thank
hook
This
16
the
02:
respect
to
02:
it to us.
02:
you.
02:
02:
10, your
Honor.
02:
you.
02:
page,
Dr. Monson?
02:
Yes.
After
02:
you have
reviewed
that
page,
I'm
02:
read.
02:
I added
Read)
02:
up the amount
After War and it's a minute
of time
and
that
57 seconds
the
02:
of
02:
recording.
BY MR.
02:
BUSCH:
02:
18
Q.
And
19
A.
Four minutes
20
Q.
Okay.
21
in Love
22
another?
23
A.
how
long
And
is the
recording
and seven
in total?
02:
seconds.
do you believe
that
02:
the two hooks,
After War and After The Dance are very
Yes.
24
more
the
similar
choruses
02:
to one
02:
02:
I think
they
THE COURT:
much
at
02:
is page
the question
is in Love
with
looking
please?
THE WITNESS:
15
recollection
to read
(Record
14
25
your
of your
Okay.
13
17
the purpose
time
are very
Mr.
Busch,
do you expect?
similar
what's
to one another.
your
time
estimate?
02:
How
02:
02:

#:9936
98
1
MR. BUSCH:
One more question.
02:
THE COURT:
That's fine.
02:
And do you view the chorus hooks in both songs as the most
Q.
important parts of those songs?
A.
02:
Yes.
02:
THE COURT:
Ladies and gentlemen, we will take our second break
We will break here.
and we will resume in about 20 minutes.
the case during the break.
12
02:
Please don't discuss
Thank you.
THE COURT:
02:
02:
02:
(Jury Out)
10
11
02:
02:
Dr. Monson, you may step down.
Thank you.
Watch your head.
02:
02:
13
Please be seated.
02:
14
All right.
An issue arose concerning the materials
02:
15
that Dr. Monson had.
Is there something you wanted to raise
02:
16
about that?
17
MR. KING:
02:
Yes, your Honor.
I believe if she was
02:
18
looking at them on the stand, they should be made available to
02:
19
me so I can see how they mayor
02:
20
testimony and whether or not we cross-examined
21
THE COURT:
22
THE WITNESS:
23
THE COURT:
24
THE WITNESS:
25
THE COURT:
Okay.
may not have influenced her

on them.
Is Dr. Monson still here?
I'm here, yes.

Could you come here for a moment, please?
Sure.
Thank you.
02:
02:
02:
02:
02:
Don't rush.
02:

#:9937
99
1
Please be seated.
Would you sit here for a moment?
THE WITNESS:
THE COURT:
Dr. Monson, as you know, I asked you about some
Certainly.
02:
02:
Thanks.
02:
02:
materials that you had with you
02:
THE WITNESS:
02:
THE COURT:
Were you referring to those as you were testifying
Yes.
-- very early in your testimony.
02:
prior to the time that I --
02:
10
THE WITNESS:
11
THE COURT:
12
Before I asked you about them.
13
THE WITNESS:
14
THE COURT:
02:
Not really.
Just a minute.
02:
Let me finish my question.
02:
02:
Uh-huh.
02:
Were you using those to refresh your
02:
15
recollection or do anything else about your testimony prior to
02:
16
the time that I asked about them?
02:
17
THE WITNESS:
18
THE COURT:
19
THE WITNESS:
20
THE COURT:
21
THE WITNESS:
22
THE COURT:
23
That's consistent with my own observation.
24
materials,
25
Thanks.
No.
I really wasn't using them.
That's fine.
Thank you.
02:
02:
You may step down.
02:
I'm a newbie to them.

Thank you.
02:
02:
Watch your head, please.
I asked about them, and we'll move on.
I saw some
Okay.
02:
02:
02:
02:

#:9938
117
Isn't
1
2
that
could
Blurred
E?
A.
it true
fit over
Lines,
that
the
which
there
are any number
relatively
simple
is four measures
chord
of A and
of melodies
pattern
03:
of
03:
four measures
of
03:
03:
Yes.
That's
true.
03:
MR. MILLER:
THE COURT:
Redirect?
03:
MR.
A few questions.
03:
THE COURT:
Thank
03:
BUSCH:
No further
03:
you.
REDIRECT
10
questions.
EXAMINATION
03:
11
BY MR.
BUSCH:
12
Q.
Dr. Monson,
13
left
off.
03:
14
A.
Yes.
03:
15
Q.
Why
16
the mash-ups
17
A.
18
It shows
19
have
I would
is it in your
Because
that
still
it shows
like
a kind
that
with
where
Mr. Miller
the different
03:
chords,
03:
03:
of structural
the melodies
in some
shows
to start
so well?
the -- that
It also
another
just
opinion
work
to be compatible
20
21
03:
that
way
similarity
and underlying
going
on.
harmonies
03:
for it to work.
maybe
somebody
was
03:
singing
along
to
tune.
MR. MILLER:
23
THE COURT:
also
25
the case.
shows
03:
03:
22
24
03:
it also
Objection.
I'm going
shows
Motion
to strike
sentence
to strike,
the
last
is stricken.
your
Honor.
sentence,
Not part
it
of
03:
03:
03:
03:

#:9939
118
1
BY MR.
BUSCH:
Q.
whether
the
suggest
that
03:
Do you have
fact
an opinion
that
there
MR. MILLER:
THE COURT:
THE WITNESS:
THE COURT:
MR.
11
testimony.
12
30 minutes.
14
lawyers
and
15
for us to have
16
ready
17
session
I have
for you
That's
19
Continue
20
Thank
you very
to prior
no question
all
one another
03:
the scope.
03:
art?
03:
pending.
03:
03:
Dr. Monson,
thank
you
for your
I know
I think
Tuesday
some
it will
here
There's
work
to work
that
be more
the
efficient
so we can do our work,
no
we will
03:
be
not be in
03:
Do not discuss
instructions
the case.
on that
03:
subject.
03:
much.
03:
22
THE COURT:
23
On a logistics
25
thought
for travel
you said
was
03:
03:
(Jury Out)
need
03:
03:
at 8:30.
weekend.
all of my
you are willing
-- there's
us break
21
24
03:
03:
to do and
a nice
03:
art?
I have.
right.
The next
Start
to follow
03:
excused.
on Tuesday.
Have
18
All
you have
Monday.
Beyond
with
--
03:
and gentlemen,
another
so well
to prior
Reference
There's
You are
13
the mash-ups
Sustained.
BUSCH:
Ladies
reference
play
Objection.
THE COURT:
10
whether
the mash-ups
was
about
Please
next
03:
be seated.
03:
issue,
Mr.
Friday
or a week
the wedding
King,
was March
did you
11th.
say that
on March
11th?
your
I
03:
03:
03:

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Case 2:13-cv-06004-JAK-AGR Document 347-4 Filed 03/17/15 Page 1 of 75 Page ID

Case 2:13-cv-06004-JAK-AGR Document 347-4 Filed 03/17/15 Page 2 of 75 Page ID

Day 4 - P.M. Session

Pamela A. Batalo, CSR, FCRR, RMR

United States District Court, Central District of California

Case 2:13-cv-06004-JAK-AGR Document 347-4 Filed 03/17/15 Page 3 of 75 Page ID

different rhythm and different notes than get up in Blurred

happy to answer you.

in these phrases and three are identical.

whether those have the same notes.

Again, if I may look at my own breakdown of it, I'll be

Why don't you look at move it up and get up and tell me

I'll have to look at, I think, my report.

Do you have it handy?

To which of your reports

are you referring?

But they have -- there are only four notes

It would be my full report.

It's not worth getting

into that, your Honor.

Any redirect, Mr. Busch?

Yes, your Honor.

I have no further questions.

Good afternoon, Ms. Finell.

Case 2:13-cv-06004-JAK-AGR Document 347-4 Filed 03/17/15 Page 4 of 75 Page ID

Do any of the distinctions

to ask you -- we've

that Mr. Miller

and the deposit

Case 2:13-cv-06004-JAK-AGR Document 347-4 Filed 03/17/15 Page 5 of 75 Page ID

you say that

and yet it could

Case 2:13-cv-06004-JAK-AGR Document 347-4 Filed 03/17/15 Page 6 of 75 Page ID

Case 2:13-cv-06004-JAK-AGR Document 347-4 Filed 03/17/15 Page 7 of 75 Page ID

Did you hear

and the rhythms,

Case 2:13-cv-06004-JAK-AGR Document 347-4 Filed 03/17/15 Page 8 of 75 Page ID

Blurred Lines multiple

Case 2:13-cv-06004-JAK-AGR Document 347-4 Filed 03/17/15 Page 9 of 75 Page ID

in the -- in Blurred Lines, including

Case 2:13-cv-06004-JAK-AGR Document 347-4 Filed 03/17/15 Page 10 of 75 Page ID

Can you put that up, please.

Exhibit No. 376.

Mr. Busch, can you pose the question to

the witness concerning her percipient

I object to the exhibit.

It was not part

of the cross or direct.

Just ask her percipient

Not what does the chart show.

appear in Blurred Lines?

but it's about four or five times.

How many times does the signature phrase or its variants

It would help for me to see my own report to answer that,

And you are free to look at your own report.

to refresh your recollection,

the report at which you're looking.

This did not come

let me know but we need to know

Well, when I looked at the report

in the documents here, it was not printed in a way that was

May I look at it in a different form?