Melendres # 694 140514 Transcript - D.ariz. - 2-07-Cv-02513 - 694 - Transcript - May 14 2014 Hearing

Case 2:07-cv-02513-GMS Document 694 Filed 05/15/14 Page 1 of 34
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE DISTRICT OF ARIZONA
Plaintiffs,
6
7
8
)
)
)
)
)
)
)
)
)
)
)
vs.
Joseph M. Arpaio, et al.,
Defendants.
Phoenix, Arizona
na
May 14, 2014
9:05 a.m.
OG
10
CV 07-2513-PHX-GMS
S
Manuel de Jesus Ortega

Melendres, et al.,
BO
.C
OM
11
EF
12
13
TH
14
REPORTER'S
OF PROCEEDINGS
RT 'S TRANSCRIPT
RTE
TR
TRAN
16
BEFORE THE HONORABLE G. MURRAY SNOW
OF
15
17
(9
Status Conference, Pages 1-34)
9 o'clock
'clock a.m.
a
18
ND
19
20
IE
21
FR
22
2
23
24
25
Court Reporter:
Co
Gary Moll
401 W. Washington Street, SPC #38
Phoenix, Arizona 85003
(602) 322-7263
Proceedings taken by stenographic court reporter

Transcript prepared by computer-aided transcription

CV07-2513, Melendres v. Arpaio, 5/14/14 Status Conference
A P P E A R A N C E S
1
2
4
5
6
7
Cecillia D. Wang, Esq.

sq.
sq
.
AMERICAN CIVIL LIBERTIES
BERTIES
ERTIES UNION
UNI
FOUNDATION
Director
Immigrants' Rights Project
Pr
Proj
39 Drumm Street
treet
reet
San Francisco,
94111
cisco, California
cisco
Cali
al
(415) 343-0775
343
43-0775
0775
BO
8
9
10
12
For the Defendants:
13
OF
For Robert S. Warshaw

arshaw
rshaw and
nd Warshaw & Associates, Inc.:
17
18
For
or
r Maricopa
Maricop County :
ND
19
16
TH
14
15
20
IE
21
FR
22
2
23
24
25
Timothy
J.
Esq.
mothy
othy J
. Casey,
Ca
SCHMITT,
SMYTH,
CHMITT, SCHNECK,
CHMITT
SCH
CASEY & EV
EVEN, P.C.
E
1221 E
E.
. Osborn Road
Suite 105
Phoenix,
Arizona 85014-5540
Phoe
oe
(602)
277-7000
(6
EF
11
Daniel J. Pochoda, Esq.

AMERICAN CIVIL LIBERTIES
FOUNDATION OF ARIZONA
77 E. Columbus Avenue
Suite 205
(602) 650-1854
.C
OM
For the Plaintiffs:
OG
Patrick M. Malgieri, Esq.

HARRIS BEACH, P.L.L.C.
99 Garnsey Road
Pittsford, New York 14534
(585) 419-8800
Douglas L. Irish
Special Assistant,
Intergovernmental Relations
Civil Services Division Chief
MARICOPA COUNTY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE
222 North Central Ave, Suite 1100
(602) 506-6173

P R O C E E D I N G S
1
2
THE COURT:
Please be seated.
THE CLERK:
This is civil case 07-2513, Melendres

v.
s v
.
.C
OM
Arpaio, on for status conference.
09:12:06
Counsel, please announce your appearances.

.
THE COURT:
MR. MALGIERI:
BO
Patrick Malgieri from

om Harris Beach,
B
Rochester, New York, on behalf of the monitor,

Robert Warshaw
onitor, Rob
onitor
Ro
and Warshaw & Associates.
11
THE COURT:
12
MR. MALGIERI:
13
MR. IRISH:
Good morning.
ng.
ng
.
Good morning,
Your Honor.
mornin , Y
morning
Good
d morning
morning,
, Your Honor.
I'm Doug Irish
representing the County,

County.
nty
ty, Maricopa
Marico
Maricop
15
table with me Sandi

di Wilson,
lson
on,
, the deputy county manager.
TH
14
16
09:12:21
OG
10
Please announce your appearances,

arances
arance
s, counsel.
co
EF
I have at counsel
09:12:30
OF
I've also invited

Tom Manos, the county manager, and
invit
i
the chief o
of -- or the
th Chairman of the Board of Supervisors, to
18
sit in the
h back
bac of the courtroom, not to make a presentation,
19
but
that we want to cooperate with you and with
t to underscore
unders
nders
20
Warshaw in getting this resolved.

Chief Wars
ND
17
IE
21
FR
22
THE COURT:
09:12:45
Well, I appreciate that, and let me --
I've read your letter, Mr. Irish.

I'
Let me give you the
2
23
background of what led to the letter, so you're clear.
24
I'm going to hear from the monitor's counsel and then I'll hear
25
from you.
Then
I'm also going to set forth some concerns I have.
09:13:02

I assume that you represent the County, and in that
capacity are capable of speaking on behalf of the Sheriff's
Office, to the extent the sheriff has any concerns.

MR. IRISH:
.C
OM
I do not speak for the sheriff, Your
Honor.
09:13:15
All right.
Well, the sheriff was

wa notified
notifi
of this hearing.
have concerns, you can speak to them.
THE COURT:
You're here, Mr. Casey, and to the extent

you
exte
BO
Mr. Pochoda, you're here on behalf

plaintiffs.
half of pla
pl
the extent -- and Ms. Wang, I see you

well.
ou as
s well
ell
11
to them, and then we may address other ma

matters -matt
OG
10
To
You can speak
MR. CASEY:
Yes, Your
ur Honor.
Hono .
Honor
13
THE COURT:
-- after
we're
ter we
w
're
re resolved -- finished with
15
this.
TH
14
EF
12
First off,
fairly regular communications
f, I do have
ha
hav
with the monitor.
tor.
tor
.
17
has indicated
that his -- or he initially indicated to me
t d to
t me
e t
18
that his
I wanted to make sure that he got paid.
is -- because
be
IE
ND
S
OF
It's
I 's anticipated by the order.
It
09:13:39
16
The monitor
He
said
id
d that he would take that as part of his obligation.
20
indicated to me he had an attorney.
21
negotiations with the County in terms of arriving at a contract

negoti
negot
22
went very well, they were very courteous and professional, and
we
FR
19
2
23
24
25
09:13:26
He
He told me that the
09:14:00
the matters were resolved expeditiously.

Then, when I began inquiring as to whether he got
paid, he indicated to me that the County and he had arrived at
09:14:19

an impasse.
communications with you; that he had received letters from
Ms. Wilson; that he -- to resolve those as well.
keep me posted somewhat on the status, and to the effect that

at
he thought he could resolve those.
He again indicated that he was having
.C
OM
And he did
09:14:42
He shared with me one of the initial pieces

es of
6
7
correspondence that he received from Ms. Wilson

n laying out
ou her
position and the County's position.
resolve those until the matter got to where

number
of accrued
here a numb
um
BO
fees have been unpaid.
OG
10
I just decided
deci
to let him
I don't know that I view

as operating in bad
w any party
par
11
faith here, and I don't think

has attempted to
k the monitor
monit
m
13
outmaneuver the County or

your position in any
r misrepresent
misrepres
14
way.
15
requesting this hearing.

ea
eari
g.
16
the correspondence
you could see what correspondence he
dence so
s that
th
17
sent me.
18
you have
ve it
t now.
no
EF
12
TH
But I was the one

him to send me a letter
ne who
ho instructed
inst
ns
I gathered
athere there was some initial hitch with that but
your correspondence.
I received
re
I think it will be
profitable for us this morning to lay out the positions and
21
everybody's concerns and then I can rule, so that we can go

everyb
every
22
forward with a minimum -- or with a maximum of clarity possible

fo
FR
20
2
23
at this point and a minimum of future opportunities to be
24
cross-wise with one another.
25
09:15:23
OF
I did it, and I told him to attach
IE
ND
S
19
09:15:02
With that said, Mr. Malgieri.
09:15:38
09:15:54

MR. MALGIERI:
Thank you, Your Honor.

As indicated, the matter that
brings us here this morning is, in its simplest form, a dispute

te
with respect to the form and content of the monitor's invoices

oices
ce
which has resulted in nonpayment of one, and, excuse me,

e,
possibly two invoices at this point.
.C
OM
09:16:16
The invoices arise out of the contract

t that was
w
entered into between the County and the monitor

pursuant to in
itor pursua
purs
furtherance of the Court's orders of October

2,
and
tober 2
, 2013,
2
20
BO
January 17th of this year that provided

the appointment of
ided for th
t
11
a monitor, and then the subsequent

appointment of our client as
ent
nt appointm
appoin
12
the -- as the monitor in this

matter.
s matter
matte
.
09:16:33
EF
OG
10
The contract provides

ovides
ides that
hat the monitor is to be
13
paid -- is to bill the

e County
Count on
o a monthly basis within five
15
business days of the

of the month, and that the
th commencement
ommenc
men
16
monitor's invoices
set forth, quote, a description of the
oices must
m
17
services completed
co pleted
leted and
an the costs and expenses incurred.
18
Importantly, the contract does not contain any

Import
Impor
09:16:48
OF
TH
14
reference
ference
erence to the County's required -- requirements applicable
20
to vendors of the County, only that the master provides a
21
description of its services, which we contend we've done with

descri
descr
22
respect to all the invoices submitted.

re
09:17:06
FR
IE
ND
19
2
23
The contract requires that the monitor be paid within
24
30 days of the submission of the invoice unless the County, in
25
good faith, is contesting that invoice, in whole or in part.
09:17:22

If, as in this instance, the County is contesting an invoice,
the County's required under the contract to notify both the
monitor and this Court within five business days of its receipt
pt
of that invoice of the fact that it is contesting it, the
nature of the contest, and the amount in dispute.
.C
OM
To our knowledge, the County has not notified

fied this
Court with respect to the dispute -- its dispute

te with the
he March
invoice; namely, the invoice that covers services

provided by
ervices
rvices prov
pr
the monitor and the monitoring team during

month of March.
ing the mon
mo
BO
And to our knowledge, we've received

with
d no
n such notice
n
11
respect to the April invoice, which

still remains
ich I believe
belie
el
12
unpaid as of this date.
So let
t me ask
sk you, Mr. Malgieri, how much
is the monitor owed that

-hat - has
as he billed for that he has not
15
been paid?
TH
14
MR. MALGIERI:
MALGIER :
MALGIERI
OF
16
specifically,
Honor, but I believe it's in the area of
ll
Y
Your
Ho
18
about 200
200,
220,000.
0, 220
0
19
question,
esti , Your
estion
You Honor.
20
bit less
less;
; I don't have the exact number.
ND
I would say approximately $200,000 in

It may be a little bit more, a little
21
THE COURT:
22
MR. MALGIERI:
IE
09:18:13
I would have to ask the client
17
FR
09:17:55
EF
THE COURT:
13
OG
10
2
23
09:17:39
09:18:24
All right.
That's with respect to both the April
invoice and the March invoice.
24
THE COURT:
All right.
25
MR. MALGIERI:
The contract also provides that if the
09:18:32

County is disputing the invoice in whole or in part, that the
parties have 15 days in which to try to resolve that, and
failing that, then the parties would submit the dispute to the
e
Court for resolution.
.C
OM
As I've stated, the basic dispute here is over

r both
b
the form and the substance of the monitor's invoices.

es.
es
.
But
B
while we contend that the invoices as submitted

comply
d in fact
fac c
with the requirements of the contract, we believe

elieve mo
more
importantly that the nature and level of

the County
f detail
detai that
t
th
BO
requires would undermine critical elements

lements
ement of the monitor's
11
work pursuant to this Court's orders.

ders.
ders
12
compromise the confidentiality

ty that is central to the monitor's
13
work, as well as the confidence

fidence
dence of those working in cooperation
14
with, and in furtherance

nce of
of,
, the
th monitor's work, oftentimes in
15
a confidential setting
well.
tt
ttin
as
s we
w
OG
10
TH
EF
It would threaten to
09:19:23
OF
outset, that
of this dispute must preserve the
a any
an resolution
reso
e
18
integrity
the monitoring process and do nothing to
ity
y of t
IE
ND
S
17
19
jeopardize
opardize the
th purposes of the monitorship or the effective
20
implementation of this Court's judgment and orders in this

implementa
21
matter.
matter
matte
22
overriding concern in this respect.

ov
FR
09:19:04
In short,
hort, it's
hort
i 's been our position, Your Honor, from the
it
16
2
23
09:18:47
09:19:39
That is our overriding -- it's not our only but our
Now, from the beginning, we have worked with the
24
County, tried to work with the County to resolve this matter,
25
again in a voluntary -- in a fashion without invoking the
09:19:54

resources of this Court.
the objections relating to the February invoice, an invoice
that in fact was paid by the County, we attempted to address
those concerns and objections by providing a fuller narrative

tive
ve
description of the services that were rendered.
narrative description that was contained in the March

rch invoice
that is subject to despite right now.
BO
continued objection by the County to the

invoice, its
e March inv
in
refusal to pay the March invoice with
exception of the
th
h the
he excep
exc
11
costs and expenses that were incurred

urred by
y the
th monitor and the
12
monitoring team.
13
portion of the invoice dealing

ealing
ling with fees and services were not
14
paid.
OG
10
EF
TH
what a typical
should look like, and it was essentially
l invoi
invoice s
17
what was characterized

by the County in a letter dated April
h racterize
acteri
18
9th --
09:20:40
19
OF
16
20
from Ms.
Ms Wilson?
W
ND
THE COURT:
Yeah, I've read that.
That's the letter

09:20:56
21
MR. MALGIERI:
22
THE COURT:
IE
09:20:28
Those were paid in

the March invoice, but the
i th
Instead, th
the County
t
unt offered a proposal to us as to
15
FR
09:20:15
That was
s the
Now, that response on our part was met with

h a
8
9
When we were advised initially as to
.C
OM
That's correct.
All right.
And then you've read the
2
23
letter from Mr. Irish to me in which he made the three
24
counterproposals to the monitor?
25
MR. MALGIERI:
I believe it's two, Your Honor, but
09:21:05

CV07-2513, Melendres v. Arpaio, 5/14/14 Status Conference 10
there were the -- the letter that Mr. Irish submitted to the
Court in which he memorialized a conversation that in fact did
take place is the last conversation that I had with Mr. Irish
in which after Mr. Benton left the County Attorney's Office,

ce,
Mr. Irish apparently assumed responsibility for this matter

atter
te and
an
tried to resolve this dispute.
his letter that we had the conversation that he

e set out,
out, I
ou
believe, two proposals.
submitted to a third party, such as a master,

submitted to
aster,
aster
, or
r s
MR. MALGIERI:
Your Honor.
BO
The third one

magistrate judge of
ne was
w
a ma
this court.
13
14
OG
THE COURT:
Thank you.
ou
u.
THE COURT:
T:
magistrate judge, that's correct,

Or a magist
Um-hum.
m-hum
hum
16
MR. MALGIERI:
MALGIER :
MALGIERI
OF
15
09:21:49
And Mr. Irish correctly indicated that
when he conveyed
to me in the phone conversation, I did
on eyed
ye that
h
18
say that
proposals were interesting and that I would
at the
he pr
p
IE
ND
S
17
19
discuss
with our client, which in fact I did.
scuss
cus it wi
20
following that that Chief Warshaw felt -THE COURT:
21
FR
22
But it was
09:22:00
Well, it was following that, just to
complete the chronology, that I instructed Chief Warshaw to

com
co
2
23
send me the letter so that we could resolve this matter,
24
or at --
25
09:21:40
EF
12
One was either to have the invoices

in
this Court for review and approval.
11
09:21:22
And he did accurately

ely recite in
TH
10
.C
OM
MR. MALGIERI:
Correct.
09:22:13

THE COURT:
resolving it.
MR. MALGIERI:
THE COURT:
Correct.
.C
OM
-- least take significant steps towards
And so just so Mr. Irish understands,

, it
was me that compelled that; it wasn't any lack of courtesy

rtesy
sy on
n
your part, as far as I can understand.

MR. MALGIERI:
09:22:19
that's
Yes, that
Yes,
correct.
I did contact Mr. Irish after I was

as advised
advise by the
Court that the Court was going to request

hearing take
st this he
hea
10
place and the parties appear, and Mr.

Mr. Irish a
r.
. --- I left
le
lef
11
voicemail message and he did e-mail

in response and
ail me
m back
ba
12
shared his concerns at the time,

I understand that
ime, and,
ime
an , again,
and
a
13
Your Honor.
THE COURT:
All right.
right
15
MR. MALGIERI:
IE
IER
TH
14
09:22:36
EF
OG
BO
as it was called,
characterized in that April 9th letter, we
led,
led
, charac
ch
17
think that the

that the mock invoice, which was prepared by
he
e -- tha
t
18
the County,
our client's billing letterhead, and what
unty
nty,
, utilizing
ut i
uti
19
I was
as advised
vised at the time was prepared in consultation with
20
Mr. Casey,
Mr.
Casey and I believe, although I'm not entirely certain,
21
but I believe it was also indicated to me that Mr. Liddy, in

bu
22
his capacity as counsel to the Sheriff's Office and the County

hi
2
23
Attorney's Office, participated in the development of the mock
24
invoice.
09:22:45
09:23:04
IE
ND
OF
16
FR
Just with respect to the mock invoice,

Jus
25
But that mock invoice, I think Your Honor could take a
09:23:19

look at the nature of the detail that's being -- that was being
requested really points to the very heart of our concern.
example, one of the proposed -- one of the proposed --
off.
09:23:35
MR. MALGIERI:
THE COURT:
That's okay, Your Honor.
I don't mean to cut you

u
I do appreciate you've traveled

long way
aveled a lo
to get here.
MR. MALGIERI:
BO
You know what?
.C
OM
THE COURT:
For
That's all right.

t.
THE COURT:
I get your concerns.

cerns.
cerns
11
MR. MALGIERI:
12
THE COURT:
13
MR. MALGIERI:
14
The only other

er thing
hin I would add is that I think in
Okay.
OG
10
EF
And I understand
them.
ndersta
nderstand
t
TH
Fair
ir enough,
enough Your Honor.
that April 9th letter

tt
tte
there
ere was a statement made that I think
16
also suggests the County

having a role with respect to the
Co
17
review of the
invoices that is certainly not contemplated in
t
invoi
invoice
18
the contract,
ntract
ract,
, and
d I would submit, respectfully, would represent
19
a possibly in
intrusion into the domain of the Court, which was a
20
statement by the deputy county manager that the County had an
21
obligation to review your bills, meaning the monitor's bills,

obliga
oblig
22
for reasonableness.
fo
09:23:44
IE
ND
OF
15
FR
09:23:39
09:24:03
And I don't think the -- whether or not
2
23
the invoices are reasonable or not is certainly not
24
contemplated in the contract, and I don't think there is
25
anything either in the contract or in the orders of this Court
09:24:17

that would vest the County with the authority or the ability to
make those determinations.

You know, in the end, Your Honor, as we said, even
.C
OM
subsequent to that letter, there were efforts still on the

e part
pa
of both us and the County to try to resolve this matter

-r on a -
on a reasonable basis, including a conference call on the

th
Friday preceding Easter, and then a subsequent call that I just
mentioned to you between Mr. Irish and myself,

it
elf
lf,
, and
a
i was not
successful.
BO
Your Honor, I'm not without

t sympathy for the County's
OG
10
position, or without a complete understanding.

understan
understandi
12
served as the county attorney

County, New York,
y for Monroe
M
Monro
13
which is not as large as Maricopa

but I oversaw a
aricopa County,
C
14
department of about 30
0 attorneys
attorney and a municipality of about
15
750,000, and the issues

vendor responsibility and billing
is
iss
s about
abo
abou
16
and accounting
and fiduciary responsibilities
g responsibility
respo
responsib
17
are items t
that
dealt
with on a regular basis and fully
at
t I deal
e
18
appreciate,
iate
ate,
, as does our client.
19
the
instance, is that the monitor is not a vendor of the
e first ins
20
nor subject to the requirements of a vendor of the

County, n
County,
21
County.
County
Count
In fact, I
TH
OF
09:25:00
But the problem here is, in
ND
IE
FR
09:24:47
EF
11
22
09:24:29
09:25:17
But more importantly, our belief is that requiring the
2
23
level of detail that the County is asking for in the invoices
24
to be -- to be subjected to their review and consideration
25
would run to the very heart of the monitoring process, the
09:25:32

monitor's work, and threaten the integrity of that work.
that is something that is of paramount importance, as I
indicated previously, and is something that we want to
preserve.
And
.C
OM
It's important that this matter be resolved as

s
expeditiously as possible not only in order to deal

l with the
h
substantial sums that remain unpaid, but obviously

avoid
any
usly to avo
vo
further interference or disruption of the work

ork of
o the
h monitor
that this kind of dispute inevitably leads

ads to.
to
BO
And I think it becomes all the more i

important because
OG
10
my understanding is that this Court

urt has,
h , in effect, expanded
has
12
the role of the monitor by its

requiring that the monitor
ts order
orde re
13
undertake a more active role

respect to community
le with r
14
engagement that goes above the beyond

the scope of the original
b
15
order of this Court,

-rt, and
rt
nd -
TH
THE COURT
COURT:
:
letter discussed
cap that was negotiated on an annual basis.
c ssed
se a c
MR.
MR
R. MALGIERI:
M G
18
THE COURT:
ND
19
That's true, Your Honor.
The cap was negotiated before I increased
monitor's responsibilities, pursuant to my enforcement

the monito
21
power
power?
IE
20
FR
MR. MALGIERI:
2
23
THE COURT:
24
MR. MALGIERI:
25
09:26:17
Yeah, I did note that Mr. Irish in his

Yea
OF
16
22
09:26:00
EF
11
17
09:25:47
09:26:28
That's correct, Your Honor.
All right.
And it would be our expectation and
anticipation that we would be undertaking discussions with the
09:26:35

County in very short order about appropriate amendment to the
contract to both reflect that additional responsibility --
that would be my expectation as well.
MR. MALGIERI:
THE COURT:
MR. MALGIERI:
Okay.
09:26:49
All right.
Well, I'm just going to say on the record

d
.C
OM
THE COURT:
And in this environment,

this
t, until th
dispute gets resolved, I don't think those negotiations

can
negotiati
negotiation
either happen, or certainly happen productively.

uctivel .
uctively
THE COURT:
11
MR. MALGIERI:
12
THE COURT:
13
Mr. Irish.
14
MR. IRISH:
15
for the invitation.

n.
16
THE COURT
COURT:
:
Thank you,
Honor.
ou
u, Your
Y
H
Hon
EF
Thank you.
ou.
ou
TH
morning, Your Honor, and thank you

Good morni
mornin
09:27:06
OF
Thank you for coming.

Tha
also, I appreciate the county manager and the

And
nd a
18
ND
Chairman
the County Board of Supervisors being here.
airman
irm
of t
Did I miss somebody?
D
21
MR. IRISH:
22
Mr. Malgieri is correct that we -- our communications
IE
20
FR
09:26:56
Ms.
s Wilson,
Wilson thank you.
17
19
All right.
OG
10
BO
I do appreciate that.
09:27:17
Thank you.
2
23
have been professional and courteous.
We just have a
24
disagreement, and I don't -- I'm not going to repeat all of the
25
back and forth because you've already read it.
09:27:34

We received three invoices from Chief Warshaw.
total is just slightly under $300,000.
a million dollars.
That's a third of
.C
OM
The
THE COURT:
Can I share with you my disposition?
MR. IRISH:
Please do.
THE COURT:
And then maybe we can discuss the reality

realit
09:27:49
of how we control this.

MR. IRISH:
Yes.
THE COURT:
It seems to me that
you're
t in your letter
l
BO
perfectly willing to let me decide this

hi thing altogether if I
11
want to review the bills.
OG
10
MR. IRISH:
That's correct.
correct
13
THE COURT:
And I apprecia
appreciate that; I appreciate that
EF
12
trust.
But I also appreciate

need for accountability.
ppreciate
preciat the
t
th
15
while I believe that

that I can review the
ha your
hat
r acknowledgement
a
ac
16
bills and you'll

ll pay if I say it's okay acknowledges the
17
County's view
I'm
in charge, and that I decide what is
i w that
t
I
18
necessary
ary
ry and what is not necessary.
And
09:28:15
OF
TH
14
09:27:59
appreciate the County's viewpoint that this is

I also
al
ND
19
money; that you do have some fiduciary obligation to

taxpayer m
21
that that money is well spent.

make sure
s
22
That being said, I also share the monitor's concern
FR
IE
20
2
23
about a couple of things, and let me just sort of spin those
24
out for you.
25
I'll listen to you first, but then I'd like to share with you
09:28:32
And then I have -- I've had a few thoughts and

09:28:52

my thoughts and see if you think they'll be workable, because
this is a rather unusual situation.

I think it is very important, and I will tell you on
.C
OM
the record that I myself have received a number of
communications from persons from the public, both prior

or to and
nd
after the appointment of the monitor, which I would

d consider
along the nature of confidential -- efforts to confidenti

confidentially
disclose operations that go on in the Sheriff's

Department.
ff's
ff
s Depart
a
What I've done, without reading them, except

first one,
xcept for the
t
09:29:09
BO
just realized what it was, was refer

the monitor once
r them to t
11
he was appointed.
OG
10
09:29:30
I realize that, from

it is very
m readi
reading them,
t
EF
12
important to the monitor's

that the identity of such
s work tha
14
persons be kept confidential

dentia and
dential
an their confidence that it will
15
be confidential be
fostered,
e f
tered
red so that the monitor can fulfill
16
his function.
09:29:50
OF
TH
13
A couple
ouple
up
o other things have occurred to me since I
of
17
started
work,
d this w
k and one is that it would be possible, and
19
I'm
saying that the sheriff would do it, but it certainly
m not
no sayin
20
for the sheriff, by tracing detailed bills,

would be possible
p
21
detect patterns of monitor supervision, monitor activity,

to det
de
22
and anticipate monitor interest in various operations, and to

an
09:30:03
FR
IE
ND
18
2
23
cure those operations and not others.
24
allowing the sheriff to do that, either.
25
So I'm not interested in
And third, it seems to me that even when the sheriff
09:30:27

is operating in good faith and the monitor is operating in good
faith, and I expect that they both are, they both might have an
interest in investigating something that comes up that they
want to keep confidential for purposes of the investigation,

on,
even though they may disagree initially about whether or not

n
that falls within the scope of the monitor's responsibility.

nsibility.
nsibility
That requires confidentiality.
.C
OM
Now, I'll tell you another thing that

occurred
to
hat has
h
o
occ
BO
8
9
me, too, that I want to talk to you about,

is given
ut,
ut
, and that
th
tha
that all those things require a certain
tain
ain level of
11
confidentiality in the billing, and which i

is why the monitor
12
has been billing in that narrative

that isn't
rative fashion
fash
13
specifically descriptive,
also the nature of things, I've
, it is als
14
learned from the first

that I did read, that some
t letter
lett
t
th
15
things, clearly, that

get from complainants fall outside
th
tha
you
u ge
g
16
the scope of my order.

orde .
order
17
it doesn't matter:
atter
tt :
18
them as
of this lawsuit.
s a result
resu
09:31:03
OF
TH
EF
OG
10
09:31:24
They may be true, they may be not true,
I don't have the authority to mess with
Some things are clearly within the scope of the order
ND
19
monitor has the authority, in my view, to investigate

and the mo
21
them.
them.
22
of the scope of the order because it depends upon the nature of
IE
20
FR
09:30:45
09:31:40
And some things it's not clear whether they're in or out
2
23
what has been said and underlying facts, which require the
24
monitor to investigate if the monitor chooses to investigate,
25
but they're not necessarily outside the scope of the order.
09:31:56

They require further investigation.

Do you understand what I'm saying?
MR. IRISH:
Exactly.
THE COURT:
So a fair amount of discretion, in my

y
.C
OM
view, has to be given and will be given to the monitor to

o
investigate the scope of his own authority, given the
complaints that he might receive.
Given those matters --
about being a good public fiduciary.
BO
And Ms. Wilson, I read your letter,

, and your
ou concern
8
9
09:32:05
I also am
unaware,
a not
n
no
and I'll state it on the record so that

any
ha if
i I have
h
11
misperceptions, or the scope of my percepti

perceptions, period, are
percep
12
laid out so people understand

and if I
d what I know
kn
13
misunderstand something, but

to remember that several
ut I do
o seem
s
14
years ago Ms. Wilson herself

was
hersel wa
a involved in a complaint that
15
involved the Sheriff's

Office.
if
iff
Offic
ffi
09:32:24
TH
EF
OG
10
MR. IRISH:
IRISH:
Correct.
Cor
THE
COURT:
H COURT
CO
:
And so I don't have any presumption that
OF
16
09:32:43
17
Ms. Wilson
going to be an agent for monitoring the
lson
o is unfairly
f
19
monitor
behalf of the Sheriff's Office, or anything like
nitor
ito on be
20
that.
that.
21
presumption that things be done in public, and for a good

presum
presu
22
reason, which cannot be exercised here to the degree and level

re
ND
18
09:32:57
FR
IE
But it does seem to me that there is a general
2
23
24
25
of specificity that Ms. Wilson would want in a public way.

What I am prepared to propose to you, unless you want
to be heard on this now, because I saw that you were willing,
09:33:18

the County, in demonstrating its good faith, is willing to pay
a third-party special master to resolve these things, and -MR. IRISH:
Correct.
THE COURT:
-- and I'll tell you, the only reason

I'm
n I
'm
.C
OM
uncomfortable with that is I really -- you know, I don't

t want
to be doing huge billing review, either, but it seems

ems to me
that to hire a special master would require somebody

mebody to
t become
b
as intimately familiar with my orders as I am

hesitate
am,
, and
a
I h
to impose that on somebody else, but what

do is this.
at I will d
BO
I do think that there is a substantia

substantial reason why
substanti
OG
10
11
Ms. Wilson should be able to review

orders
in their
iew the
t
o
ord
12
complete and unredacted entirety.

rety.
rety
13
do that, Ms. Wilson, you will

ill do it in my chambers.
14
do -- I will do it in the
way, and I will be
th following
follo
follow
15
interested in your
proposals.
r pr
p
posals
sal
I will
TH
EF
However, if you're going to

Howe
09:34:10
The monitor wil

will continue to submit public bills, to
the same detail

e ail
il he has
ha submitted them, publicly to Ms. Wilson.
18
He will
l submit to me very detailed, task-oriented time logs of
IE
ND
S
17
19
everything
that his staff does, with specificity.
erything th
20
submitted to me, they will be submitted in camera, and they
21
will be
b submitted under seal.
FR
22
09:33:51
OF
16
09:33:30
They will be
09:34:31
Ms. Wilson will be able to, if she wishes, hire
2
23
separate counsel and even a separate consultant.
She can come
24
into my chambers; she can review the bills in their entirety.
25
But what Ms. Wilson cannot do is discuss this matter with
09:34:56

anyone else, including Mr. Manos, including the County Board of
Supervisors, or including anyone else except for the monitor
and for me.
believes is --
.C
OM
And by the way, she can't hire you as her attorney,

torney
ne ,
because you represent -MR. IRISH:
Thank you.
I don't want to do this

this.
THE COURT:
You represent the County.

nty.
nty
can't hire
She ca
BO
anybody in the County Attorney's Office.

.
MR. IRISH:
Okay.
11
THE COURT:
It has to be
e separate
separat counsel.
OG
10
09:35:23
And if
you're going to hire a consultant,

ltant,
ltant
, Ms. Wilson, that has to be a
13
separate consultant, and neither

eithe the
th consultant or the attorney
14
can confer with anybody

this,
anybody even in the County
ody
dy about
bo
t
th
15
except Ms. Wilson.

.
TH
EF
12
09:35:37
Ms. Wilson,
Wilson, if you then want -- if you then, in your
OF
16
17
combing of the
find something that you want to dispute,
he
e bills,
bills
bill
18
you can
Warshaw.
n call up
u Mr.
M
19
the
you can't resolve the matter, you will submit it to
e two
tw of yo
20
and under seal, and you will pay all the other
me in camera
cam
21
matters that you can resolve.

matter
matte
If
You can discuss it with him.
ND
IE
22
FR
09:35:13
If Ms. Wilson comes across something that she
09:35:56
I don't want to be reviewing a whole lot of these
2
23
things.
I want you to understand, Ms. Wilson, that I'm going
24
to give the monitor fairly broad leeway, and I think I've just
25
explained why.
If in fact I start resolving too many, I'm
09:36:13

going to start awarding attorneys' fees under the Arizona rule,
and I'm not -- you've said you're concerned about resolving
this dispute.
not the monitor's entitled to attorneys' fees.
.C
OM
We'll address that in a minute, and whether or
In addition, though, to the confidentiality that

hat
t
Ms. Wilson owes the monitor and she owes me and the
e process,
process
she will also owe confidentiality to the Sheriff's

ff's
ff
s Department,
Depart
because the Sheriff's Department may well be

e involved
involve in
investigations that it wants kept confidential.

dential.
dential
BO
09:36:33
So if she wants to dispute fees

fees,
, the presumptive rule
OG
10
will be she files it under seal and in camera.

ca
cam
However, if she
12
checks with the monitor and the monitor

has no problem with her
mon
13
filing the dispute publicly,

has to check with the
cly
y, she still
st
14
sheriff's representatives
sure they have no problem,
tives
ive to
t make
ma
mak
15
and the plaintiffs'

to make sure they have no
s' representatives
presen
ese
16
problem, and then sh

can file the dispute publicly.
she ca
09:37:08
OF
TH
EF
11
09:36:50
There
h re
e may
y be public disputes that don't relate to
17
anything
and the monitor and the sheriffs and the
ng
g confidential
confi
onfi
19
plaintiffs
agree.
aintiffs will
wi
20
monitor to make sure the monitor doesn't have any concerns.
21
checks with the parties, and then she can publicly

Then she
s
22
file it.
fi
But first she needs to check with the

09:37:22
FR
IE
ND
18
2
23
In that way, it seems to me that we are accommodating
24
as much public purview as we can of the monitor's operation.
25
That which must be kept in private and Ms. Wilson wants to have
09:37:37

detail, she can have detail.
records in my office, and everybody who comes with her,
including her, will be bound by my order that she discusses it

t
with no one else.
Now, let me ask you, Ms. Wilson, do you have the

e kind
nd
of authority from the County to do that?

MS. WILSON:
Judge Snow, I think I probably

but
obably would,
woul
my boss is right behind me so you can see whether

he's
hethe he
hether
e' nodding
his head.
BO
I think really what we were looking for

fo is just
being able to ensure that what is being

eing billed
bille is in fact
11
related to the order, so in my mind

ind that -- your solution works
12
perfectly.
13
THE COURT:
14
MS. WILSON:
15
THE COURT:
T:
16
Do you
ou have any concerns about that, Mr. Irish?
All right.
right
ight.
.
TH
you.
Thank you
All right.
rig
ri
09:38:21
OF
17
MR.
R IRISH:
IR
IRISH
:
I have a question but not a concern.
COURT:
THE
HE C
R
Sure.
18
MR IRISH:
MR.
ND
19
I think your solution is perfect, but a
question with regard to Ms. Wilson engaging outside counsel,
21
other counsel.
IE
20
FR
09:38:11
EF
OG
10
22
09:37:51
But she'll come review the
.C
OM
09:38:36
There are a lot of lawyers in the county who are under
2
23
contract with the County that, if I may give you a little
24
history, when Bill Montgomery was elected and invited me to
25
join his executive staff, we inherited a mess.
Lawsuits were
09:38:53

filed -- flying all over the place and subpoenas were flying
all over the place and we had to hire lawyers to represent
people with all sorts of conflicting interests.
.C
OM
THE COURT:
Well, and it does seem to me that --
MR. IRISH:
We engaged outside counsel to review

iew
w those
os
bills so that we didn't get involved with it, and those lawye
lawyers
w
were contracted with the County but they didn't

t disclose
anything to us.
BO
So if she elects to engage outside

counsel, should we
side coun
counse
use that list, or should we go under

ability to
r the County's
Count
oun
11
get sole-source lawyers who are not contracted

with the County
contr
contrac
12
to perform that service?
13
What's your preference?

ference
rence?
14
THE COURT:
15
that, Mr. Malgieri?

i?
We'll do it either way.

W
TH
Well,
Well
Wel
, does
es the monitor have a position on
MR. MALGIERI:
MALGIER :
MALGIERI
OF
16
THE
COURT:
H COURT
CO
:
17
09:39:37
No, Your Honor.
All right.
Then my view would be this.
Whoever
employs is going to have to sign an attestation
r she emp
em
19
that
at
t they've
they'
they
've read and understand my order.
ND
18
And if they --
MR. IRISH:
M
Fair enough.
21
THE COURT:
-- do that, and they're subject to my
IE
20
FR
09:39:20
EF
OG
10
22
09:39:06
09:39:50
sanction, then I don't care if you use the County-approved

sa
2
23
list, and I presume that even if they have in the past provided
24
services to the County, that doesn't, in and of itself,
25
prevent -- or pose a conflict if they're willing to abide by
09:40:07

With that answered, Your Honor, we're
pleased and satisfied.

THE COURT:
Thank you.
Does the monitor have any other concerns

erns
ns
with proceeding in that fashion?
MR. MALGIERI:
THE COURT:
9
10
11
09:40:18
No, Your Honor, we do not.
All right.
Mr. Casey, do you want

wan to
t
address any of that procedure?

MR. CASEY:
Your Honor, Tim Casey

of the
sey on behalf
beha
eh
defendants Joseph M. Arpaio and the MCSO.

MCSO.
Two
Tw things, briefly.
OG
.C
OM
MR. IRISH:
the conditions of my order.
BO
To the extent that the MCSO,

the course of
MCSO, during
durin
ur
working with the monitor, so far my understanding/impression
is
und
13
it's gone very well, and that

client has found the monitor
hat my
m cl
14
to be a source of wisdom
especially with some of
dom and
an advice,
ad
adv
15
the things that we've

dealing with recently, and we expect
e'v been
en d
16
that to continue.
nue.
nue
.
TH
OF
we're concerned
concerne
ncerne about is mission creep, then we're going to
19
raise
with Sandi Wilson and we're going to say, We're
ise
se that
at wi
20
concerned about this, that seems to be broader than the order.
21
FR
22
09:40:57
If
f in
n fact
t my clients ever sense the proverbial what
IE
ND
S
18
EF
12
17
09:40:33
09:41:13
We understand that there may be some good faith
differences at some point, particularly on the areas that you

di
2
23
discussed.
I think that is completely legitimate, and that
24
would be a hard thing that I would recommend ever coming to you
25
and saying it's mission creep, when there are confidential
09:41:29

informants either within the MCSO or outside the MCSO about
things.
.C
OM
I think this man has to have the breadth to be able to
3
4
investigate that.
on our investigation, about any monitor and potential mission

ssion
creep.
concern.
We would be communicating that with Sandi Wilson.

Wilso
clients.
BO
The second thing, let me say, is this

behalf
of my
his on
o beha
e
I, as counsel, have no interest
seeing
st in seein
seei
Mr. Warshaw's bills in any extent.
I'm
going to see them,
I'
I
m not go
g
11
obviously, with what you've said.

.
12
to the Court, have no desire to take

bills or
tak generalized
ge
13
specific bills to try to discern

what he's doing or what he
iscern wh
14
might do.
15
now.
OG
10
EF
My clients,
I will represent
clien
li
TH
The methodology
dology
ology that
at you've set up guarantees that
09:42:26
OF
issues at the
beginning
of this, but my clients, I believe, got
t
begin
beginni
18
the message,
implementing in good faith, and they're not
ssage
age,
, are
a
19
interested
terested
erested in gaming anything but in achieving good faith
20
results in full intention -- actually, good faith intention to
21
comply.
comply
compl
IE
ND
17
FR
09:42:05
But I wanted
wante the
th Court to be aware that we've had some
16
22
09:41:45
And again, I don't use that pejoratively but

ut it is a
8
9
But on other things we are sensitive, based

e
09:42:46
The reason I share that with you, Your Honor, is I
2
23
understand we have to earn that trust from you with time.
But
24
I wanted you to know that from our perspective, my client is
25
not interested in trying to head him off at the pass by
09:43:02

learning the game plan from these folks.
that a certainty, but I wanted to tell you that your order, I
think, guarantees that, so -- but I wanted to let you know
that's always been my clients' position, so thank you.
THE COURT:
Mr. Pochoda, Ms. Wang, I don't know who wants

ants to
t
Thank you.
09:43:22
All right.
Your order now makes
.C
OM
address this.
MR. POCHODA:
Just very briefly, Your

our Honor
Honor.
Plaintiffs would have some concern

cern about the counsel
BO
issue.
We agree with Your Honor's position th

that Ms. Wilson
t
11
cannot be bringing to it or revealing

counsel that are
ealing
aling to
o any
a
12
involved from the County, or the M

MCAO
and so forth.
C O a
CA
13
think that the -- I may have

but the attestation that
ve misheard,
mi hea
mis
14
the Court mentioned really

eally gets at that issue of the importance
15
of a wall of some typ

type, and not just that they're familiar with
t
16
the orders but

t that they will not speak, any attorney, of this
17
matter to anyone
or the county -- the county attorney and
a yone
on else
l
18
so forth.
th
h.
19
between
tween
wee ---
09:43:36
We don't
09:43:59
OF
TH
EF
OG
10
So we would request that that be a stronger wall
THE COURT:
T
20
Well, you do raise one of the things I
wanted to address, and that is the County was a party to this

wante
22
lawsuit and they were dismissed by stipulation.

law
la
2
23
stipulation, I indicated that if the County was needed, they
24
could be reintroduced as a party and the County stipulated to
25
that.
RI
21
09:44:16
In that
09:44:35

Ms. Wilson, I'm not saying this to threaten you at
all, but you've just heard that the MCSO may want to lobby you,
the County may want to lobby you, you may find yourself subject
ct
to lots of competing influences and lots of pressures, and

d I
want to make it clear when I enter an order that the order

rder
er is
s
enforceable.
.C
OM
I want to know from the County right now if you're

y '
you
going to take any position that I can't enforce

for
orce an order
o
ord
contempt against Ms. Wilson or against any attorne

attorney she may
attorn
BO
hire or consultant she may hire if I find that

tha she or they have
11
breached the terms of my order.
12
I want to know if we need to reintroduce

the County as a party
reintr
reintroduc
13
for purposes of this action.

ion
n.
OG
10
EF
15
MS. WILSON:
ON:
ON
TH
Do you understand
stand what
at I'm asking, Ms. Wilson?
I believe I do understand,
Your
ur Honor,
H
but obviously I have no intention of releasing any information
17
to anyone --
COURT:
THE
HE C
R
And please, I'm not assuming that you're
18
acting
ting in
n bad faith, but I learned a long time ago when I enter
20
an order,
order, I make sure that I can enforce that order, so I'm
21
raising that issue now.

raisin
raisi
IE
ND
19
FR
09:45:30
OF
16
2
23
09:45:15
And if that
is the case, then
t
tha
14
22
09:44:53
09:45:46
Do you have any position with respect to that,
Mr. Irish?
24
MS. WILSON:
25
THE COURT:
No, I don't.
All right.
So that if that --
09:45:58

MR. IRISH:
agree that such issues will not be raised.

THE COURT:
All right.
Now, let me just raise -- I
.C
OM
On behalf of the County, Your Honor, we
will craft the order.
If you don't like it, Mr. Pochoda, I'll

l
let you comment in a day or two before I enter it, but I think
that I will have every intention of making it very,

, very solid.
soli
oli
09:46:11
MR. POCHODA:
THE COURT:
Let me just state for the record,

rd,
rd
, I think
thin everybody
All right.
BO
here is probably aware of this, the monitor's

monitor s informed me that
11
Mr. Manos met with him yesterday

y morning for
fo breakfast, that he
12
was very -- it was a very cordial

professional
conversation
rdial and
a
p
13
in which Mr. Manos expressed

and a willingness to
ssed
ed an interest
int
14
do anything that the monitor

would be more efficient
monito thought
th
tho
15
for MCSO operations.

ns.
ns
09:46:25
TH
EF
OG
10
09:46:43
Let me express
to you my concern about that,
expr
OF
16
17
Ms. Wilson,
, just
us so
o you'll understand, because Mr. Manos is
18
your boss.
oss
s.
19
concerns
about MCSO operations, and he wanted to know what to
ncerns
cer
abou
20
them, because while they might have been

do with th
21
recommendations he could have made, they really didn't fall

recomm
recom
22
within the scope of our order.

wi
ND
The monitor's already come to me with a few

Th
FR
IE
09:46:59
2
23
There are plenty of things that do fall within the
24
scope of the order which we will be doing and we're working in
25
good faith with the Sheriff's Office to accomplish now.
But
09:47:13

whatever else the monitor is, he isn't a consultant to the MCSO
on how they can operate more efficiently or implement better
police procedures.
.C
OM
And if you're going to look at the order for purposes

poses
se
of implementing the order, you have to implement -- I mean

mean,
an,
things that actually might be to the County's benefit

fit and might
mig
be to the MCAO's benefit but not the MCSO's benefit

still
nefit are
ar s
beyond the scope of the order.
MS. WILSON:
Yes, sir.
All right.
BO
You understand
that.
and that
t
.
The
that I will
e other thing
thi
th
OG
THE COURT:
10
Yes.
say is -- frankly, I'm going to say this to the MCSO -- when I
12
entered the order appointing the monito

monitor, I noted that there
mo
13
was some dispute about the

he expense involved in things that the
14
parties had stipulated

to,
ed
d to
t
, so I invited the County to consult
15
directly with the monitor

m
mo
tor
r if
i they had concerns about what I was
16
ordering, and that there

was a more cost-efficient way to do
t
17
that than w
was contain
contained in my order.
conta
18
beyond the
scope of my order.
h scop
sco
09:47:46
09:48:04
I don't view that as
But it is the sort of thing I
ND
S
OF
TH
EF
11
19
09:47:28
recognize
cognize the MCSO might have some concerns about.
But I'm going to reaffirm today, Mr. Manos, for your
B
20
benefit, and Mr. Barney, for yours, that to the extent, you
benefi
benef
22
know, any consultants you hire or anybody else has

kn
FR
IE
21
09:48:21
2
23
recommendations that they want to submit for the monitor's
24
consideration about how we can revise this order in a way that
25
will make it more efficient and just as effective for
09:48:39

plaintiffs and less cost-effective for the County, I believe
that you are within the realm of appropriate authority to
submit those recommendations to the monitor for him to act on
them.
.C
OM
The only thing I would require that you do is when

you
h
yo
submit such recommendations to the monitor, you need

ed to let
t the
t
MCSO know what they are, or such inquiries.
objections on behalf of the MCSO, you can object

object.
bject.
BO
So
any
o if you have
ha
Now, do I realize that that creates

eates inner
inne conflicts
among the parties here?
It might, but yo
you're
you
're
re going to have to
11
deal with that.
12
to deal with it, you can raise

me again.
se it with
w
OG
10
EF
And if it ever comes

come to
o the
th level where I have
All right?
outstanding billings, you

understand,
Mr. Warshaw, that I'm
y
under
unders
15
going to require you

in detailed, task-based billing,
yo to
o engage
eng
enga
16
so that Ms. Wilson

review that in my chambers.
ilson can
c
r
OF
TH
14
MR.
WARSHAW:
R WARSHAW
WARSHA
17
COURT:
THE
HE C
R
Yes, sir.
Are you going to have -- would it be
possible
point to reconstruct the first two bills that
ssib
ssible
at this
t
20
submitted in that fashion?

you ve already
you've
alr
ND
19
IE
21
FR
24
25
09:49:34
18
2
23
09:49:11
Now, as it relates
getting
my monitor paid for
tes
s to gett
ett
13
22
09:48:53
MR. WARSHAW:
09:49:47
It would be difficult, based upon the
kind of detail that we'll be using from this point forward,

ki
but -THE COURT:
Is the County going to insist on that?
Are you just willing to pay his bill if I will -- if I will
09:49:58

review it and confirm that the services as he has billed were
provided?
Your Honor, I think that would be
.C
OM
MS. WILSON:
acceptable to us.
THE COURT:
All right.
I have reviewed those bills.

bills
i
.
I can confirm that to my knowledge, the services he

e has billed
bille
lle
for were provided, so I'm going to direct the County to

the
t pay
p
outstanding bills from March and April.
BO
As it relates to whether or not

seek fees for
t you can s
11
MR. MALGIERI:
12
THE COURT:
13
MR. MALGIERI:
Excuse me
me?
?
I'm
m sorry
sorry,
, Your Honor.
right.
All rig
ri
16
that's going to be an
a issue.
is
OF
THE COURT:
T:
MR.
R MALGIERI:
MALGIE
MALGIERI
17
COURT:
THE
HE C
R
Then it doesn't sound like
Are there --
Thank you.
-- other matters that need to be raised at
ND
this
is
s point?
point?
MR. MALGIERI:
M
21
MR. IRISH:
No, Your Honor.
22
THE COURT:
All right.
IE
20
FR
09:50:44
18
No, Your Honor.
2
23
status hearing in this matter.
24
10 o'clock, is that not right?
25
It was never
our intent or expectation.

ation
tio .
15
19
09:50:30
It was never
Your Honor.
ever our intent,
in
TH
14
OG
this, is it your desire to seek fees,

s,
, Mr.
Mr. Warshaw?
War
Wars
EF
10
09:50:08
MR. CASEY:
09:50:51
Now, I have scheduled another

I believe I've scheduled it for
That's my understanding, Your Honor.
09:51:02

THE COURT:
All right.
Then this hearing is dismissed
and we'll proceed at 10 o'clock at the additional status
hearing.
Thank you.
(Proceedings concluded at 9:51 a.m.)
6
7
BO
8
9
OG
10
11
EF
12
13
TH
14
18
ND
19
17
OF
15
16
20
IE
21
FR
22
2
23
24
25
.C
OM

1
C E R T I F I C A T E
.C
OM
3
4
5
I, GARY MOLL, do hereby certify that I am duly

dul
appointed and qualified to act as Official Court Reporter

for
Repor
p
the United States District Court for the

e District of Arizona.
BO
I FURTHER CERTIFY that the foregoing pages constitute
OG
10
a full, true, and accurate transcript

all of that portion of
script
cript of
f al
12
the proceedings contained herein,

in the above-entitled
rein, had
rein
h
i
13
cause on the date specified

ied
d therein,
therein and that said transcript
14
was prepared under my

y direction and control.
TH
EF
11
16
DATED
Arizona, this 15th day of May,
A ED
D at Phoenix,
P
Pho
17
2014.
ND
19
18
OF
15
20
IE
21
FR
22
2
23
24
25
s/Gary Moll

Melendres # 694 140514 Transcript - D.ariz. - 2-07-Cv-02513 - 694 - Transcript - May 14 2014 Hearing

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Melendres # 694 140514 Transcript - D.ariz. - 2-07-Cv-02513 - 694 - Transcript - May 14 2014 Hearing

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Case 2:07-cv-02513-GMS Document 694 Filed 05/15/14 Page 1 of 34

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

FOR THE DISTRICT OF ARIZONA

Manuel de Jesus Ortega

BEFORE THE HONORABLE G. MURRAY SNOW

Proceedings taken by stenographic court reporter

Case 2:07-cv-02513-GMS Document 694 Filed 05/15/14 Page 2 of 34

Cecillia D. Wang, Esq.

For the Defendants:

For Robert S. Warshaw

Daniel J. Pochoda, Esq.

For the Plaintiffs:

Patrick M. Malgieri, Esq.

Case 2:07-cv-02513-GMS Document 694 Filed 05/15/14 Page 3 of 34

This is civil case 07-2513, Melendres

Arpaio, on for status conference.

Counsel, please announce your appearances.

Patrick Malgieri from

Rochester, New York, on behalf of the monitor,

I'm Doug Irish

representing the County,

table with me Sandi

Please announce your appearances,

I've also invited

Warshaw in getting this resolved.

Well, I appreciate that, and let me --

I've read your letter, Mr. Irish.

Let me give you the

background of what led to the letter, so you're clear.

I'm also going to set forth some concerns I have.

Case 2:07-cv-02513-GMS Document 694 Filed 05/15/14 Page 4 of 34

I assume that you represent the County, and in that

capacity are capable of speaking on behalf of the Sheriff's

Office, to the extent the sheriff has any concerns.

I do not speak for the sheriff, Your

Well, the sheriff was

have concerns, you can speak to them.

You're here, Mr. Casey, and to the extent

Mr. Pochoda, you're here on behalf

the extent -- and Ms. Wang, I see you

to them, and then we may address other ma

You can speak

indicated to me he had an attorney.

negotiations with the County in terms of arriving at a contract

He told me that the

the matters were resolved expeditiously.

Case 2:07-cv-02513-GMS Document 694 Filed 05/15/14 Page 5 of 34

communications with you; that he had received letters from

Ms. Wilson; that he -- to resolve those as well.

keep me posted somewhat on the status, and to the effect that

he thought he could resolve those.

He again indicated that he was having

He shared with me one of the initial pieces

correspondence that he received from Ms. Wilson

position and the County's position.

resolve those until the matter got to where

fees have been unpaid.

I don't know that I view

faith here, and I don't think

outmaneuver the County or

requesting this hearing.

But I was the one

profitable for us this morning to lay out the positions and