Books by Srath

Jaimini Maharishi's UPADESA SUTRAS

VARGA CHAKRA
BRHAT NAKSATRA
COLLECTED PAPERS IN VEDIC ASTROLOGY
VEDIC REMEDIES IN ASTROLOGY
A COURSE ON JAIMINI MAHARISHI'S UPDESA SUTRA,
1. Online Chat: Argala Part II
om jaya jaggannaatha
-------------------pvr108 (12:14:30 PM): i was talking abt argalas.
(1) Argala literally means a " bolt " . It's a decisice influence that
intervenes in the affairs of a house
shris1 (12:14:30 PM): There is full argala on the house/planet from
planets/houses in the 2,4,11 from it
skanda_kumara (12:14:48 PM): ok
dnd108 (12:14:50 PM): and malefics in 3rd can also cause argala
pvr108 (12:14:55 PM): (2) Each house experiences argala from the
planets in the 2nd, 4th and 11th from it
pvr108 (12:15:15 PM): (3) Malefics in the 3rd from a house also
cause argala on it
pvr108 (12:15:41 PM): (4) This argala is negated by planets in the
same distance in the opposite direction
pvr108 (12:16:05 PM): i.e. planets in 12th (which is 2nd counted in
reverse direction) negate the argala of planets in 2nd.
dnd108 (12:16:11 PM): which is 3rd, 10th and 12th
sarbani3062002 (12:16:19 PM): can you please clarify point (4)
newtoindia2000 (12:17:01 PM): so a malefic in the 3rd has 2
functions... 1. causes argala 2. obstructs argala also at the same
time?
sanjayrath (12:17:07 PM): Thanks, but no thanks.
skanda_kumara (12:17:36 PM): no malefics in 3H obstructs argala only
if there are planets in 3H
pvr108 (12:17:57 PM): Let us take the 9th house. It shows dharma.
The planet is 10th house shows the karma one indulges in and that
karma has a sustaining argala on 9th.
sanjayrath (12:18:07 PM): Of course Katti..the 3rd house is
Parakrama, and one uses parakrama when the object is not easily
obtained
skanda_kumara (12:18:28 PM): ok

pvr108 (12:18:54 PM): But Sanjay, what is the meaning of a malefic

planet in 3rd negating the argala of a planet in 11th?
dilipastro (12:19:15 PM): Namaste
pvr108 (12:19:59 PM): If, for example, Jupiter is in the 11th house,
what is the meaning of his argala on lagna? If Mars and Saturn are
in 3rd in that example, what is the meaning of their begation of
Jupiter's argala on lagna?
b_lakshmi_ramesh (12:20:00 PM): even if the planets in 9H & 10H are
basically inimical to each other..will the sustaining continue?
pvr108 (12:20:24 PM): Yes (to Lakshmi)
sanjayrath (12:20:44 PM): Narasimha, it need not be a malefic alone.
Even benefics negate it. The third is the house of desire and
planets therein show desire and always cause desire. All desires
cannot be fulfilled by the 11th and hence the 3rd is actually
negating the argala of the 11th. Its like saying no matter how much
water I throw into the ocean, it never overflows!
skanda_kumara (12:22:08 PM): hmmm
sanjayrath (12:22:20 PM): Is this confusing?
pvr108 (12:22:22 PM): Qn to Sanjay: Let's say the 9th house is
Taurus. Let's say Jup is in Gemini. Jupiter is a malefic for Libra.
What does his argala on Taurus mean?
pvr108 (12:22:27 PM): yes
pvr108 (12:23:00 PM): i can understand that planets in 3rd cause
desires. tell me one thing: what do planets in 11th cause???
b_lakshmi_ramesh (12:23:07 PM): i can understand 2 & 12
negating...but 3rd & 11th? aren't these houses part of kaama
trikona..then how come?
sanjayrath (12:23:19 PM): Jupiter is a malefic by lordship only and
in Argala, the lordship is not considered as much as the nature of
the planet
skanda_kumara (12:23:29 PM): ok
pvr108 (12:24:06 PM): So, does Jup's Subha Argala on 9th from 10th
show following dharma with good deeds in society?
sanjayrath (12:24:34 PM): 11th causes the fulfillment of desires and
hence the END OF THE DESIRE. That is why the 11th is the HARA
sthana. I want a car, and after I get the car, the desire ends. Thus
the 11th house fulfills desires generated by the 3rd house and thus,
ends them
b_lakshmi_ramesh (12:24:58 PM): ok.
pvr108 (12:24:59 PM): What if Mars were in Ge in that example? What
would his 2nd house argala on 9th house show? Would it show
following dharma in a militant fashion?
shris1 (12:25:46 PM): Probably it shows destruction of dharma (since
it is a papargala)
sanjayrath (12:25:47 PM): Of course, even if Guru is in Makara for
Mesha, it does subha-argala on the ninth house indicating that the
person shall benefit Guru's and temples
pvr108 (12:26:07 PM): ok, so the planets in 11th cause argala on
lagna by giving fulfilment of desires (and thus comfort to self).
Planets in 3rd cause more desires and stop this sense of fulfulment.
pvr108 (12:26:30 PM): at the same time, they cause more desires and
more effort and that is what their argala on lagna shows. am i right?
pvr108 (12:27:23 PM): Sanjay, does Mars's argala on 9th from 10th
show destruction of dharma or following dharma in a militant

fashion? Please clarify this

sanjayrath (12:27:40 PM): Yes in fact, planets in 10th have a
profound impact on the chart for this primary purpose of being the
sustenance argala on the 9th house..dharma sustains if the right
karma is there?? that is for the INDIVIDUAL and thus Vishnu protects
Dharma during Madhya Garatri when the Sun is in the 10th house i.e.
Karaka for 9 Sun as Dharma has argala on it
b_lakshmi_ramesh (12:27:56 PM): so does it follow that the final
house in each trikona shows fulfilment and the end of that
particular desire?Sorry, if i am deviating..
dnd108 (12:28:11 PM): what if Rahu is in 10th?
dnd108 (12:28:30 PM): how's that influencing 9th?
rastapoppolous (12:29:05 PM): for malefics in 3rd from a sign
causing argala , do functional malefics qualify ?
b_lakshmi_ramesh (12:29:32 PM): only natural malefics, i think
shris1 (12:29:39 PM): rasta: No argala is more for Natural Malefics
b_lakshmi_ramesh (12:29:59 PM): Guruji was saying that functionality
does not matter as much
pvr108 (12:30:06 PM): karthik, sanjay already clarified that
inherent nature matters the most
newtoindia2000 (12:30:08 PM): i assume for argala.. only the nature
of the planet is taken...natural benefics and malefics
skanda_kumara (12:30:33 PM): Narasimha cd u please increase ur font
size???
newtoindia2000 (12:30:56 PM): so, if rahu is in the 10th.. his
argala would mean help from ppl from the underworld etc?
pvr108 (12:31:01 PM): I first had 10. I thought it was too big and
decreased. Ok, I will increase.
sanjayrath (12:31:03 PM): A guru isw a guru and even if He lords
over the 8ith house, he makes the person free from disease and
debt ..
pvr108 (12:31:36 PM): Sanjay, does Mars's argala on 9th from 10th
show destruction of dharma or following dharma in a militant
fashion? Also, what does Rahu's sustaining papa argala on dharma
show?
b_lakshmi_ramesh (12:32:17 PM): and Venus's?
shris1 (12:32:31 PM): But Guruji, in one example you had given
(chart of a schezophernic ) Guru was vargottama in the fifth and
Guru was responsible for the disease ..
shris1 (12:32:54 PM): Debilitated & Vargottama
sanjayrath (12:33:00 PM): Argala is very beneficial for the
Bhava..all planets in 10 take the person to SWARGA
sanjayrath (12:33:22 PM): Yes, rare case where there is a curse from
Guru
pvr108 (12:33:34 PM): Of course, Guru can give disease, but Sanjay
is talking about argala now, where the functional nature matters
less and inherent nature matters the most
pvr108 (12:33:56 PM): Even if Jupiter is a very bad functional
malefic in a chart, his subha argala on lagna will be good for health
dnd108 (12:34:17 PM): Sanjayji is that case only with 10th house
argala?
sanjayrath (12:34:23 PM): In that case Guru was the badhak and he
did tantrik pooja..marana type I guess..called spirits etc..results
were terrible
pvr108 (12:34:29 PM): How will Rahu in 10th take one to swarga? (I

know he will, but I am trying to see the modus operandi of Rahu)

b_lakshmi_ramesh (12:34:48 PM): tee hee!
skanda_kumara (12:35:12 PM): IRahu in 10H wd take him to holy
places - piligrimages
dnd108 (12:35:30 PM): tirtha yoga
sanjayrath (12:35:35 PM): Rahu by nature takes a person away from
dharma, but in the 10th he assumes the role of Sri Varaha Avatar
shris1 (12:35:54 PM): If Rahu is debilitated in 10th ?
newtoindia2000 (12:36:07 PM): but i thought rahu in the 10th..
giving argala will mean that the native's dharma will be influenced
by cheaters, underworld etc
sanjayrath (12:36:13 PM): Yes, as I mentioned any planet in the 10th
in the Rasi chart is like Vishnu..the strongest house
pvr108 (12:36:18 PM): Perhaps the person goes on pilgrimages and
perhaps follows his karma in foreign places and finally upholds
dharma through his karma
sanjayrath (12:37:04 PM): Yes, ask Dinanath about my prediction on
his Rahu in 10th house..foreign place, foreign wife UL is there..
dnd108 (12:37:29 PM): my wife also has Rahu in 10th
pvr108 (12:37:31 PM): yes, he has rahu in 10th in sc
dnd108 (12:37:56 PM): after our marriage we visited many holy places
pvr108 (12:38:29 PM): so, the bottomline is that all planets
(benefic or malefic) in 10th (karma) make one uphold dharma (9th)
due to their sustaining argala on 9th. But, based on their nature,
the karma followed will be different
dnd108 (12:38:36 PM): it was desire of both of us
sanjayrath (12:38:38 PM): Now, if he were to worship Varaha Avatar
or just come for the Vyankatesa sarma conference and visit Tirupati
can you imagine the blessings..
shris1 (12:38:38 PM): Planets in the 10th also have argalas on 7 ,
12 apart from 9th . How do we treate 7 & 12 ... ?
sanjayrath (12:39:29 PM): That is the point..I have ketu and do not
travel and instead write like Matsya avatar trying to save the Veda
pvr108 (12:39:37 PM): Why do you call " Vyankatesa " . Isn't it
actually " Venkatesa " ?
pvr108 (12:40:09 PM): What about the planets in 9th? they have a
sustaining argala on 8th? what does it mean?
pvr108 (12:40:39 PM): The 9th house shows the dharma or bhagya. The
8th house shows loans, hard work, tapasya, diseases etc. What's the
link???
shris1 (12:40:42 PM): Guruji, for ketu the argala is reverse right ,
there is no argala on 9th but there in on 11th house ?
pvr108 (12:40:57 PM): That's for the house containing ketu
pvr108 (12:41:17 PM): Sc has no Ketu. So argalas on it are counted
normally. Ketu in Sg has argala on Sc.
pvr108 (12:41:30 PM): OTOH, if you want argalas on Sg, you will have
to count in reverse
shris1 (12:41:40 PM): oh ok
pvr108 (12:41:50 PM): For example, Sanjay's 10th house Sg has argala
from Mars (in Vi) and negated by Jupiter (in Pi).
pvr108 (12:42:27 PM): We counted in reverse because Ketu's in Sg.
skanda_kumara (12:42:40 PM): yes
shris1 (12:42:54 PM): thanks for the detailed explanation pvrji
shris1 (12:42:59 PM): If ketu is conjorned with other planets and if
ketu is weak (debilitated) does this reverse rule (on house) still

apply ?
pvr108 (12:43:22 PM): my understanding is that it does. Sanjay ji
can clarify further
pvr108 (12:43:53 PM): Sanjay: What about the planets in 9th? they
have a sustaining argala on 8th? what does it mean? The 9th house
shows the dharma or bhagya. The 8th house shows loans, hard work,
tapasya, diseases etc. What's the link???
skanda_kumara (12:45:31 PM): Narasimha, wouldnt they show the hand
of luck/blessings of Vishnu for better health, 9H is also for dhana
and it aids in getting loans or clearing it etc
pvr108 (12:45:51 PM): In future, we should try to install a sound
card and a microphone in Sanjay's PC. He can speak and all of us can
type. That will be the best use of Sanjay's time.
skanda_kumara (12:46:12 PM): 9H is also Dhyana which is imprtant in
Tapasya
dnd108 (12:46:12 PM): he has it and a mic
pvr108 (12:46:13 PM): But lagna shows health and 8th house shows
fall of it.
pvr108 (12:46:22 PM): Oh
pvr108 (12:46:57 PM): then he should be able to speak. if too many
people speak at the same time, things go bad. if only one end speaks
at a time, this will work fine
skanda_kumara (12:47:08 PM): as a trine from 1H wouldnt 9H also play
and important role .. Narasimha
pvr108 (12:47:19 PM): but 8th shows more than tapasya. it shows
debts and diseases too
skanda_kumara (12:47:45 PM): yes then beneficial argala helps in
tapasya and removes diseases
skanda_kumara (12:47:56 PM): as good health is essentail in Tapasya
skanda_kumara (12:48:03 PM): i,e is the basis of Hatha Yoga
pvr108 (12:56:24 PM): Sanjay, what is the meaning of the sustaining
argala of the planets in the 9th house (dharma/bhagya) on the 8th
house (debts, diseases, tapasya)?
pvr108 (12:57:52 PM): Sanjay, what is the meaning of the sustaining
argala of the planets in the 9th house (dharma/bhagya) on the 8th
house (debts, diseases, tapasya)?
sanjayrath (12:58:16 PM): It sustains the bad karma..life after
life..birth after birth..nothing iws really written off without good
karma adding to the balance sheet
pvr108 (12:58:59 PM): how does following dharma sustain bad karma?
doesn't Jupiter in 9th make one follow dharma well? How will he
sustain bad karma??
pvr108 (12:59:00 PM):
shris1 (12:59:11 PM): Sanjaiji (small degression) , If ketu is in a
house with another planet and ketu is debilitated , will the reverse
argala rule on house still apply ?
sarbani3062002 (12:59:14 PM): How can dharma sustain bad karma? I
thought it enabled good karma? and erased the bad?
skanda_kumara (12:59:48 PM): Yes to Shriram
shris1 (01:00:11 PM): thanks skanda
pvr108 (01:00:43 PM): If Jupiter is in 9th, what is the meaning of
his sustaining argala on 8th? Does it somehow promote the bad karma?

I can't understand how....

sanjayrath (01:01:13 PM): The sustenance of NIJA DOSHA does not
manifest with subhargala coming from Guru in 9 whereas Sani in 9
will surely
pvr108 (01:01:46 PM): i'm lost
sanjayrath (01:02:23 PM): manifest. However, Guru in 9 is only going
to ensure that this sustains for another date when sani dasa comes
os such graha that can cause the NIJA dosha to manifest
dnd108 (01:02:40 PM): what is NIJA dosa?
pvr108 (01:02:47 PM): what do u mean by nija dosha
sanjayrath (01:03:35 PM): Nija is self and dosha is flaws coming
from bad karma that has caused this rebirth in Mrityu loka
dnd108 (01:04:06 PM): that means that everyone born in material
world has NIJA dosa
sanjayrath (01:04:22 PM): Thus Nija dosha is the sins done by us and
us alone..that are attached to the atma like a cloth
dnd108 (01:04:36 PM): bad karma?
sanjayrath (01:04:43 PM): Yes
dnd108 (01:04:43 PM): in simple words
pvr108 (01:05:23 PM): guru in 9th shows good guidance which will not
solve the bad karma problem, but will postpone the results
pvr108 (01:05:55 PM):
sarbani3062002 (01:05:55 PM): Then what will solve the bad karma
problem ultimately?
newtoindia2000 (01:06:16 PM): sat i guess will solve it.. with
punishment
dnd108 (01:06:38 PM): other graha causing bad karma to manifest is
Rahu I guess apart from Sani?
sarbani3062002 (01:06:39 PM): If guru in 9th is the temporary
solution, who is the permanent one?
sanjayrath (01:06:48 PM): Not really. Guru in 9 is only giving good
upadesa and advising on the merits of punya and gives opportunity to
do good karma during its period so that a large chunk of nija dosha
is wiped out
sarbani3062002 (01:07:02 PM): ok
dnd108 (01:07:11 PM): so the cleansing process
pvr108 (01:07:35 PM): so, 9th is only upadesa or guidance. the
actions we perform are seen only from 10th. so 10th has the most
crucial influence on the dharma we follow
dnd108 (01:07:54 PM): that means that Jup in 9th will lead a person
to association of sadhus and hopefully person will take up spiritual
life and wipe of some of the bad karma
sanjayrath (01:08:02 PM): If I have money, then only can I donate to
an ashram..that is Guru in 9. He gives money and the upadesa to
sarajitp (01:08:14 PM): I hope I am not disturbing the conversation,
but just not getting any messages
pvr108 (01:08:24 PM): what is the meaning of the argala of a planet
in 11th on 8th (4th house argala)?
pvr108 (01:08:24 PM):
dnd108 (01:08:29 PM): but apart from donating money people can also
render service in the ashram

dnd108 (01:08:57 PM): that requires no money and in most of the

cases cleanses person much faster than donating money
pvr108 (01:09:04 PM):
dnd108 (01:09:07 PM): can that also be Jupiter in 9th?
sanjayrath (01:09:23 PM): I just gave an example
sanjayrath (01:09:35 PM): Guru will also give the skill to render
service..
dnd108 (01:09:50 PM): ok
sanjayrath (01:09:59 PM): Guru also gives the mantra to do Japa
sarbani3062002 (01:10:15 PM): Guru in 9th will guide us in
performing the right actions in 10th?
sanjayrath (01:10:24 PM): Guru also gives the opportunity to serve
Krishna at a temple! like Patraka prabhu
pvr108 (01:10:39 PM):
pvr108 (01:11:06 PM): so planets with sustaining argala on 8th do
not sustain nija dosha, but help in reducing it. is that right???
sanjayrath (01:11:07 PM): You see there is no end to this list
dinanatha..now come to SUKHA ARGALA of 11th on 8th that gives
JYOTISH VIDYA
sanjayrath (01:12:05 PM): Time is the Key out here..If Guru is
ruling then he gives a chance to ATONE
skanda_kumara (01:12:37 PM): ok
sanjayprabhakaran (01:12:45 PM): ok
sanjayrath (01:13:07 PM): Whether the person will or not depends on
other argala like say there are 2 planets in 7th house, then he will
get into too many other things with the time and money instead of
going to atone
newtoindia2000 (01:13:25 PM): gurudev, can you elaborate on SUKHA
ARGALA of 11th on 8th that gives JYOTISH VIDYA
dnd108 (01:13:33 PM): yes
pvr108 (01:14:35 PM):
..
newtoindia2000 (01:15:10 PM): is everyone here?
sanjayrath (01:15:11 PM): What is SUKHA? Try to answer this first
dnd108 (01:15:12 PM): argala of 11th house would show fulfilment od
desires as we heard today
dnd108 (01:15:19 PM): sukha is beneficial
pvr108 (01:15:42 PM):
dnd108 (01:15:47 PM): now how is that conected to 8th house argala
dnd108 (01:15:48 PM): ?
b_lakshmi_ramesh (01:15:50 PM): sukha is ananda..1st step to moksha
skanda_kumara (01:16:21 PM): Sukha ... happiness ... is selfcontentment
sarbani3062002 (01:16:41 PM): Iha lok sukh or para lok sukh?
skanda_kumara (01:16:55 PM): so 4H argala causes self-contentment to
the houses it argalas
sanjayrath (01:17:12 PM): good others
skanda_kumara (01:17:23 PM): so planets in 11H provides sources for
self-contentment to matters pertaining to 8H like jyotish etc
skanda_kumara (01:17:52 PM): or that which causes one to be free
from mind imposed desires

shris1 (01:17:59 PM): Namastae all , i had some problems in YM ..

rastapoppolous (01:18:52 PM): 11th as 4th from 8th becomes the place
of education for 8th house matters. an argala on 8th house promotes
this ?
skanda_kumara (01:18:58 PM): is Narasimha there???
dnd108 (01:19:10 PM): should be
sanjayrath (01:20:09 PM): You see..there are so many opinions, and
yet none can explain this so that all can easily agree
dnd108 (01:20:12 PM): here is something auspicious
dnd108 (01:20:34 PM): holy
sanjayrath (01:20:37 PM): Narasimha, sarajit please tell me what is
sukha?
newtoindia2000 (01:21:21 PM): sukha is more than fulfillment of
desires... isnt it a state of bliss?
dnd108 (01:21:44 PM): happiness is normal translation
sarbani3062002 (01:22:09 PM): There may be more than one kind of
sukha
skanda_kumara (01:22:35 PM): Sukha is that state which leads to
Moksha(4H)
ashwiyn (01:22:36 PM): sukha is a state of mental and physical
happiness where the desire to get more and more is reduced and when
the desire to rise above the basic necessities of life arises
sarbani3062002 (01:22:39 PM): One which is temporal and the other
which is eternal
sanjayrath (01:22:46 PM): Yes it is the relationship that one share
sonly with mother..can take for granted..that which is always there
and never leaves you even if you run away a hundred times..that
which is YOURS and only yours..something close..that touches the
heart..the seat of Bhagavan
sarbani3062002 (01:23:39 PM): so you are talking about eternal bliss?
sanjayrath (01:24:14 PM): Now, Sukhargala is what we have and can
say as our resources or that which created us for the sake of being
skanda_kumara (01:25:31 PM): ok
sanjayrath (01:25:39 PM): Eternal is what we crave for
skanda_kumara (01:25:44 PM): ok
sanjayprabhakaran (01:25:47 PM): beautiful
sarbani3062002 (01:25:57 PM): ok
sanjayrath (01:26:32 PM): what we have is MOTHER
dnd108 (01:27:22 PM): i think we need to find new chat server, yahoo
is overburdened
sanjayrath (01:27:24 PM): OK I am ending here, but not starting
again..its midnight, good night
skanda_kumara (01:27:33 PM): ok
newtoindia2000 (01:27:35 PM): ouch
skanda_kumara (01:27:37 PM): good night
newtoindia2000 (01:27:39 PM): i was just getting started!
dnd108 (01:27:43 PM): when is the next cyberconference?
shris1 (01:27:47 PM): good night
skanda_kumara (01:27:55 PM): the problem is I think there is a limit
to the sockets or something
newtoindia2000 (01:28:06 PM): i think it;s diff versions of yahoo
skanda_kumara (01:28:10 PM): this is not a problem in a small group
dnd108 (01:28:19 PM): well here is only 2.30PM so good day

skanda_kumara (01:28:19 PM): no everyone has more or less same

version
shris1 (01:28:20 PM): i think we better create a chat room and then
left everyone join it
skanda_kumara (01:28:25 PM): 5.0.0.16
sarbani3062002 (01:28:36 PM): Yes you can't just say MOTHER and
end...we need to continue at some point
sanjayrath (01:28:50 PM): Monday same time..Dinanath find a new
server before that.Can our sjvc server work for this?
dnd108 (01:29:00 PM): i have one chat client on my web iste
dnd108 (01:29:01 PM): site
dnd108 (01:29:03 PM):
dnd108 (01:29:05 PM): http://dinanatha.com/chat.html
dnd108 (01:29:12 PM): normaly works good
dnd108 (01:29:19 PM): you can try it out
dnd108 (01:29:33 PM): it is java applet so it takes little time to
load
sarbani3062002 (01:30:00 PM): will some one please send the
transcript to all of us...do Visti's dirty job? AS we have missed
chunks of it
skanda_kumara (01:30:10 PM): I shall
sarbani3062002 (01:30:17 PM): Great
sanjayrath (11:47:36 AM): Ashwin, namaste. Argala is a vital topic
as it is the ONLY method to show that during the course of a dasa,
the planet affects EVERY bhava and every Graha..thus everything
happens as it has happened earlier, just that somethings become more
important
shris1 (11:47:46 AM): Namastae all
skanda_kumara (11:48:15 AM): ok gurudeva go on
dnd108 (11:48:57 AM): how is argala related to dasa?
sanjayrath (11:49:27 AM): Thus, a benefic planet having its dasa
shall start giving beneficial argala on 3 houses at least and
immediately with the onset of this dasa, at least 3 houses flourish
skanda_kumara (11:49:41 AM): ok
dilipastro (11:49:46 AM): Namaste, Whats the topic?
dnd108 (11:49:48 AM): do we see from dasa rasi what invluence that
particular rasi will have on other rasis in that dasa
skanda_kumara (11:49:57 AM): Dilip, Argala
dilipastro (11:50:06 AM): ok
dnd108 (11:50:13 AM): and on that bais make prediction
sanjayrath (11:50:59 AM): ts within the seed, but it is only with
time and patience that the tree grows into its full form
dnd108 (11:51:09 AM): ok
dnd108 (11:51:59 AM): how do we see fructification of the argala?
newtoindia2000 (11:52:13 AM): do we take the dasa rasi as the focal
point and then see the argala on it? or do we take the paka?
ashwiyn (11:52:33 AM): or should the basic chart also be taken for
considering argala
sanjayrath (11:52:37 AM): In that manner the Argala is well within
the seed planted in the embryo by the father, yet it is only with
time that the promises shall show. The beneficial argala shall
surely bloom during its dasa, and in the antardasa when this is

obstructed the evil shall come or the yoga shall end

shris1 (11:52:49 AM): Gurudeva , last time you told the meaning of
argala by 11th house and 3ed . Can you please tell the meaning of 2
& 4 and its obstruction ?
skanda_kumara (11:53:09 AM): ok
sanjayrath (11:54:01 AM): Nice questions..you can take any bhava.
take the dasa planet and count 3, 10 & 12 houses from it, this are
the houses on which it shall have 11, 4 & 2 argala respectively
dnd108 (11:54:31 AM): or dasa rasi for rasi dasas?
sanjayrath (11:54:51 AM): yes dnd
ashwiyn (11:54:59 AM): sanjay ji will it be applicable when looked
from moon and from vimshottari mahadasha lord also
newtoindia2000 (11:56:23 AM): ponders the meaning of life
sanjayrath (11:56:48 AM): ashwin what do you mean exactly? give an
example
skanda_kumara (11:56:59 AM): ok great gurudeva ... for example if
Cancer Narayana Dasa starts ... the effects of Houses ruled by signs
Aries, Gemini & Virgo will manifest right?
newtoindia2000 (11:57:10 AM): oops.. sorry for tha msg..(meaning of
life) hit the wrong button
ashwiyn (11:58:12 AM): if we look from Moon chart then can we take
argala's of planets into consideration and if the mahadasha of
Jupiter is running on then shall we see from Mahadasha lord Jupiter
also by keeping it in Lagna and then look for argalas
sanjayrath (11:58:46 AM): ashwin you can take argala from every
bhava and every planet..why Moon alone?
ashwiyn (11:59:14 AM): and does this also apply for transits
sanjayrath (12:00:26 PM): ashwin you can confusing too many
things..be clear on one aspect first
newtoindia2000 (12:00:36 PM): so, if a planet in a house is
intervening in the effects of a dasa rasi.. for example cancer
Narayana dasa as skanda said... how do i interpret it? do i say that
i will get help from those people the planets represent? for example
jup for elders, perceptors, sun->govt etc?
ashwiyn (12:00:40 PM): ok
sanjayrath (12:02:17 PM): Narayana, the point you make is right..it
is like shifting of energy like Money shifts..in the example, Aries
Gemini & Virgo shall surely benefit from the presence of NARAYANA
(Narayana dasa) in Cancer and their sustenace is vouchsafed
skanda_kumara (12:02:44 PM): thanks
dnd108 (12:03:42 PM): to see what houses will benefit do we count
the houses from Lagna, AL or from Dasa rasi?
skanda_kumara (12:04:33 PM): DND, the houses from which the Dasa
rasi is in 2, 4 & 11 will benefit and receeive the sustaining energy
from Cancer
skanda_kumara (12:04:51 PM): I mean the Dasa Rasi .. not Cancer
skanda_kumara (12:05:55 PM): and so planets in these benefitted
rasis and arudhas in them will also prosper
skanda_kumara (12:06:40 PM):
skanda_kumara (12:07:09 PM):
shris1 (12:07:35 PM): brb

shail_c (12:07:46 PM): I joined late - so excuse me if it has

already been answered. But, while assessing Argala effects, what
Karakatwa is more pronounced - Chara or Naisargika?? And what about
the effect of Rasi's themselves??
newtoindia2000 (12:08:04 PM): so, if a planet in a house is
intervening in the effects of a dasa rasi.. for example cancer
Narayana dasa as skanda said... how do i interpret it? do i say that
i will get help from those people the planets represent? for example
jup for elders, perceptors, sun->govt etc?
skanda_kumara (12:09:22 PM): Shailesh ... in my opinion ... it
should be both
newtoindia2000 (12:09:45 PM): if yes (to my question above) what
kind of help would it be? how to see that?
skanda_kumara (12:09:50 PM): Hari ... Yes .... thats how we
interpret ... as far as I know
skanda_kumara (12:10:12 PM): Gurudeva .. please clarify ... hope u r
online!
skanda_kumara (12:10:53 PM): Hari - Jupiter - MOney and depending on
its Chara Karakatwa, Similarly Sun - Father, Govt and its
Charakarakatwa
sanjayrath (12:11:30 PM): Sailesh, this is given in the Narayana
dasa book as dividing the period into 3 parts
newtoindia2000 (12:13:03 PM): thanks skanda
skanda_kumara (12:13:20 PM):
sanjayrath (12:14:39 PM): There is a visitor at this hour! Please
continue..Narayana please continue. I will be back soon
skanda_kumara (12:14:52 PM): ok Gurudeva
skanda_kumara (12:15:02 PM): Any questions???
skanda_kumara (12:16:24 PM): So it is important to understand that
the Dasa Rasi running will provid sustainance to houses on which it
argalaes
skanda_kumara (12:16:51 PM): and not only promotes matters of those
houses but also Arudhas in them
shail_c (12:17:15 PM): Can you explain " sustainance "
skanda_kumara (12:18:17 PM): Ex. If Cancer Dasa is running and Aries
has A10 or Rajyapada, then based on which house Cancer is and
planets in them, Job oppurtunities, Image pertaining to Workplace
may take a favorable turn
skanda_kumara (12:18:28 PM): Sustainance ... Means giving life to
skanda_kumara (12:18:42 PM): and provide support
skanda_kumara (12:18:55 PM): and nurture
shail_c (12:19:55 PM): Thanks - but again, the support will depend
on the 'quality' of argala - or virodhargala - right??
skanda_kumara (12:20:08 PM): Quality of Argala - Yes
ashwiyn (12:20:53 PM): skanda ji the houses which are giving argala will their sign lords also effect the house and the planet where
the argala is
shail_c (12:21:18 PM): Let me elaborate - if Dasa Rasi houses a
func. malefic, the argala will be 'papa' - then sustainance will be
through foul means!!
skanda_kumara (12:21:30 PM): no only the signs and because of
this ... the planets in them

newtoindia2000 (12:21:31 PM): ashwin.. here it is the house/planet

giving argala
skanda_kumara (12:22:10 PM): Shailesh .. no, for argala only
consider nautural nature and not functional
shail_c (12:23:04 PM): Oh - I stand corrected. I remembered some
mail where I saw that func. nature should be seen.
dilipastro (12:23:31 PM): so, if dasa rasi has a natural malefic,
sustenance will be through malefic means?
dnd108 (12:23:32 PM): last time we discussed it is for nature of the
planet
skanda_kumara (12:23:34 PM): Shailesh, actually it was the previous
conference where Gurudeva made it cleat
dnd108 (12:23:47 PM): not functional nature
skanda_kumara (12:23:54 PM): Dilipda, yes
shail_c (12:23:59 PM): Sorry - I missed that & Hari is sending me
the transcript
newtoindia2000 (12:24:54 PM): sailesh.. already sent
shail_c (12:25:10 PM): Thanks - did u mail it??
shail_c (12:25:22 PM): Yes - got it
newtoindia2000 (12:26:00 PM): yes
skanda_kumara (12:26:33 PM): Shailesh, going back to your previous
question, if the Dasa Rasi causes argala on house X, then Virodha
Argala will also manifest, then it depends which is more stronger
the Argala or Virodha Argala
shail_c (12:27:02 PM): Right - so the std. agrala rules will apply
skanda_kumara (12:27:09 PM): yes Shailesh
..
shail_c (12:28:57 PM): An aside here - if there are malefics in 2 &
12, both, then 'papargala' of 2nd should be obstructed by 12th. Then
why papa kartari is bad (Hope I do not sound TOO stupid)
skanda_kumara (12:29:36 PM): Paapakartaari is bad as the house is
surrounded by malefics ... imagine for a moment
skanda_kumara (12:29:54 PM): that your house is surrounded by rival
gang members on both sides
skanda_kumara (12:30:16 PM): because they are each interested in
looting you ...
newtoindia2000 (12:30:17 PM): walls of fire it seem
skanda_kumara (12:30:38 PM): they might fight ... but that doesnt
mean ... you are living happily ...
skanda_kumara (12:30:59 PM): all the time .. you are filled with
apprehension as eventually one bad guy will survive
skanda_kumara (12:31:04 PM): and trouble you
skanda_kumara (12:31:17 PM): Shaliesh .. Have I made this clear???
shail_c (12:31:39 PM): I iAM a little dense.
skanda_kumara (12:31:47 PM): is it still unclear???
shail_c (12:31:52 PM): Yup
skanda_kumara (12:31:56 PM): why???
shail_c (12:32:17 PM): Papa argala is support thru 'papa' means
skanda_kumara (12:32:42 PM): but there is virodha aragala too
shail_c (12:32:47 PM): Now virodhargala of any planet obstructs
THAT - right
skanda_kumara (12:32:54 PM): and that obstructs it ...right
shail_c (12:33:17 PM): So - one negative obstructing another - where

is the problem??
skanda_kumara (12:33:39 PM): No .. one negative source ... which can
help .. is being obstructed
skanda_kumara (12:34:01 PM): and hence there is a constant fight
shail_c (12:34:25 PM): OK - but then why virodh of malefic only even benefic planets can obstruct.
skanda_kumara (12:34:38 PM): yes .. but then it would not be called
paapargala
skanda_kumara (12:34:49 PM): sorry papakartati
shail_c (12:35:05 PM): Yes - the original point was papa kartari.
skanda_kumara (12:35:15 PM): exactly
skanda_kumara (12:35:35 PM): Good question
shail_c (12:35:37 PM): My basic query is - is papa kartari worse
that papa argala that is unobstructed??
newtoindia2000 (12:35:54 PM): but the means of obstructions will be
diff... if it;s a benefic... malefics are harsh
skanda_kumara (12:35:55 PM): Yes ... I think so
shail_c (12:36:37 PM): I need to chew on that & digest it.
ashwiyn (12:36:49 PM): can you elaborate more on harsh -- hari -what does it mean ?
newtoindia2000 (12:37:21 PM): punishment can be soft.. it can be
hard too... that;s what i meant...
ashwiyn (12:37:58 PM): ok u mean it will show its malefic nature
skanda_kumara (12:38:02 PM): I think DND108 can give his
perspectives too!
dnd108 (12:38:18 PM): about harsh and not harsh?
newtoindia2000 (12:38:24 PM): if virudha argala is from a malefic,..
it will be harsh. i think
skanda_kumara (12:38:27 PM): no on everything ..
ashwiyn (12:39:08 PM): but then harsh to what extent and how will
this be defined
ashwiyn (12:39:17 PM): the extent of harshness
skanda_kumara (12:39:38 PM): the condition of the planet , its
Avasthas etc
skanda_kumara (12:39:44 PM): that was for Ashwiyn
newtoindia2000 (12:39:57 PM): and how many planets who are malefics
are obstructing
dnd108 (12:40:11 PM): not much to add
skanda_kumara (12:40:28 PM): ok dnd ...
dnd108 (12:40:44 PM): just wante to clarify with Sanjayji about
importance of influence of Argala on particular houses
skanda_kumara (12:40:56 PM): Why dont we use Bhagavan Ramas chart as
an example???
dnd108 (12:41:25 PM): becuase when we judge the results of the dasa
we see it from few points, like rasa dasi, Al, Sun, moon
skanda_kumara (12:41:41 PM): yes DND
dnd108 (12:42:19 PM): so in this respect i wanted to know the
relatshionsip of argala of dasa rasi and above points
skanda_kumara (12:42:55 PM): Ok i will answer whatever little I know
dnd108 (12:43:04 PM): ok
skanda_kumara (12:43:46 PM): As per Narayana Dasa book, the houses
which receives Argalas from Dasa rasi will flourish(depending on
type and nature etc) for the whole Dasa
dnd108 (12:44:10 PM): ok

skanda_kumara (12:45:08 PM): then based on this ... Dasa rasi is

divided into 3 parts
skanda_kumara (12:45:32 PM): liek House, Lord & Planets aspecting
and posited
dnd108 (12:45:55 PM): ok
skanda_kumara (12:45:56 PM): then based on which 1/3 part is
dominant ... that will sustain the argalaed houses
skanda_kumara (12:46:58 PM): for example
skanda_kumara (12:47:21 PM): if Say Cancer Dasa is running
skanda_kumara (12:47:26 PM): and the duration is 3yrs
skanda_kumara (12:47:43 PM): and only planet therein is Jupiter & Moon
dnd108 (12:47:58 PM): are you saying that we'll see argala first
from house of the dasa rasi, than it's lord and than planets
aspecting
skanda_kumara (12:48:08 PM): yes
skanda_kumara (12:48:19 PM): depending on the nature of Sign Prishto etc
dnd108 (12:48:36 PM): that is normaly used for determining results
of the dasa rasi in Narayana Dasa
skanda_kumara (12:48:39 PM): and hence Gurudeva said, that the seed
is planted and with time it will show effects
dnd108 (12:48:55 PM): i don't know if we can strecth the effects on
argala
skanda_kumara (12:49:18 PM): yes ... but based on what is predominant
(Sign or Planets or aspects) that will predominate in its argala on
those houses
shail_c (12:50:01 PM): May I interupt - DND said " argala first from
house of the dasa rasi, " - shouldnt it be " by the Dasa Rasi "
dnd108 (12:51:03 PM): depends on your English, we probably mean the
same, the argala of the current Narayana dasa sign
dnd108 (12:51:22 PM): regarding the seed Sanjayji said: In that
manner the Argala is well within the seed planted in the embryo by
the father, yet it is only with time that the promises shall show.
The beneficial argala shall surely bloom during its dasa, and in the
antardasa when this is obstructed the evil shall come or the yoga
shall end
shail_c (12:51:29 PM): Sorry - no offnce meant please
dnd108 (12:51:33 PM): no probs
newtoindia2000 (12:52:04 PM): guys... i got to go now... can someone
please send me the transc
skanda_kumara (12:52:08 PM): sure
dnd108 (12:52:22 PM): skanda as you can see this is related to dasas
and antardasas
skanda_kumara (12:52:26 PM): yes
newtoindia2000 (12:52:27 PM): thanks
newtoindia2000 (12:52:29 PM): see ya
dnd108 (12:52:42 PM): which are used as a timer when benefical and
malefics results will come
skanda_kumara (12:52:48 PM): indeed
dnd108 (12:53:29 PM): but now if you move after 1/3 of the dasa is
completed to the sign occupied by dasa rasi lord
skanda_kumara (12:54:00 PM): u r correct
skanda_kumara (12:54:08 PM): my statement was incorrect
dnd108 (12:54:10 PM): than how is that new sign related to dasa and
antardasas?

skanda_kumara (12:54:11 PM): sorry

skanda_kumara (12:54:25 PM): Argala cannot be broken into 3 parts
dnd108 (12:54:31 PM): dasas and antardasas will be the same
skanda_kumara (12:54:50 PM): its all or nothing ... and effects will
be visible thru aout
skanda_kumara (12:55:01 PM): let me state Gurudeva from his books
dnd108 (12:55:06 PM): sure
skanda_kumara (12:56:35 PM): Argalal and its obstruction on Dasa
Rasi can be timed during the AD of the signs involved. However, the
Argala or Virodha Argala caused by Dasa Rasi on Lagna and other
houses or any planet will prevail during its entire period
skanda_kumara (12:57:11 PM): So here there is clear information on 2
things
dnd108 (12:57:16 PM): i also think the same
skanda_kumara (12:57:50 PM): 1. Dasa rasi causes argala on houses to
which it is 2, 4 & 11, and the effects will prevail thru out the
period o
skanda_kumara (12:58:22 PM): 2. Other signs has Argalas/Virodha
Argala on Dasa Rasi and during the AD's they may manifest
dnd108 (12:59:06 PM): that the antardasas will initiate beneficial
and malefics argalas and depending on the antardasa sign they
results of the argala can be seen
skanda_kumara (12:59:42 PM): yes
dnd108 (12:59:48 PM): i think that we are saying the same
skanda_kumara (12:59:53 PM): yes we are
skanda_kumara (01:00:03 PM): I agree with you
dnd108 (01:00:11 PM): that is how I would interpret Sanjayji's
statement
dnd108 (01:01:05 PM): i think that should be also some exceptions in
these rules
dnd108 (01:01:10 PM): in respect to AK
dnd108 (01:02:20 PM): i mean the sign ocupied by AK should dominate
when we are talking about the results of Argala
dnd108 (01:02:42 PM): becuase AK is the strongest and most important
planet in the chart
shail_c (01:03:11 PM): Can we equate importance with strength??
dnd108 (01:03:38 PM): well, there are standard rules for the
strenght of the signs
dnd108 (01:03:58 PM): and first rule is that the sign occupied by AK
is the strongest
shail_c (01:04:04 PM): Yes - Coz AK is the planet that is most
advanced - so it may be in bala avastha or vridha avastha
dnd108 (01:04:23 PM): so I would say that in this case we can at
least for AK
dnd108 (01:05:12 PM): apart from all avastas, AK represents Isa or
Bhagavan in the chart
shail_c (01:05:21 PM): True
dnd108 (01:05:47 PM): and becuase of His will the whole universe
moves
shail_c (01:06:30 PM): Yes - but remember we also check if the AK is
debilitated, etc
dnd108 (01:06:37 PM): and therefore we cannot overestimate
importance of AK in the chart
dnd108 (01:06:58 PM): for strenght of the signs ?
shail_c (01:07:13 PM): for strength of planets.

dnd108 (01:07:26 PM): that is different

dnd108 (01:07:57 PM): when we talk of argala we primarly talk about
signs
shail_c (01:08:06 PM): yes - of course
dnd108 (01:08:13 PM): and the results we see from planets in those
signs
dnd108 (01:08:25 PM): which comes second
dnd108 (01:08:52 PM): AK can never be malefic for the native
dnd108 (01:09:13 PM): becuase it is always guiding him on the path
back to Bhagawan
skanda_kumara (01:09:18 PM): DND ..AKs effect manifest thru out
life ... teaching us the lessons
skanda_kumara (01:09:35 PM): and all other charakarakas are
subservient to this King
dnd108 (01:09:55 PM): AK itself has no end as a subject
shail_c (01:10:02 PM): in Narayana Dasa book, Sanjay ji specifically
mentions that the rule reg sign with AK cannot be used for Narayana
dasa etc.. (pg 22)
dnd108 (01:10:13 PM): it can
dnd108 (01:10:18 PM): but not for all people
skanda_kumara (01:10:35 PM): Shailesh ,,, it pertains to rules ...
but AK is the soul of the chart and plays a dominant role
skanda_kumara (01:10:37 PM): example
dnd108 (01:10:55 PM): it is used mainly in the charts of prominent
personalities and politicians
skanda_kumara (01:10:59 PM): I have my AK Saturn Deb in Lagna ...
which indicates a curse .. and that shall prevail
skanda_kumara (01:11:22 PM): so focussing on removal of curse will
help
dnd108 (01:11:23 PM): not ordinary people
skanda_kumara (01:11:54 PM): and AD of sign containing AK its
effects will be more prominent
shail_c (01:12:07 PM): No disputes here - but while assessing
effects of, & on Dasa rasi, do we consider AK rasi as the strongest
inluence??
skanda_kumara (01:12:15 PM): not really
shail_c (01:12:29 PM): That was the discussion with DND
dnd108 (01:12:56 PM): according to my understanding it should be
dnd108 (01:13:12 PM): because of the reasons I explained
dnd108 (01:13:25 PM): I haven't red it anywhere
skanda_kumara (01:14:05 PM): ok
dnd108 (01:14:37 PM): and as I said according to my opinion there
should be an exception in connectin with AK
dnd108 (01:14:48 PM): and I gave my reasons
dnd108 (01:14:55 PM): so we are discussing it
skanda_kumara (01:15:30 PM):
shail_c (01:15:40 PM): If I quote from my own case, CAP houses AK,
VEN, with AL & Sun. Yet, the dasa was just about average, though it
caused a break in education & change in line from Engg to BCom
dnd108 (01:15:45 PM): so next time we can confirm it with Sanjayji
skanda_kumara (01:15:59 PM): yes
skanda_kumara (01:16:04 PM): we can confirm
shail_c (01:16:15 PM): That would be excellent.
dnd108 (01:16:23 PM): but it gives us something to think about
dnd108 (01:16:31 PM): which is very logical

shail_c (01:16:48 PM): Skanda, I missed the initial discussion - so

I too would request a transcript
skanda_kumara (01:16:58 PM): transcripts for everybody
shail_c (01:17:04 PM): Great
ashwiyn (01:17:05 PM): the cafe is closing - i need to go - namaste
to all
dnd108 (01:17:15 PM): you can maybe send it to varahamihitra group
dnd108 (01:17:25 PM): hare krishna ashwiyn
skanda_kumara (01:17:26 PM): bye ... I shall mail scripts to everbody
shail_c (01:17:36 PM): Bye to all - was great
dnd108 (01:17:41 PM): another thing i wanted to say reg Ak
skanda_kumara (01:17:45 PM): sure
ashwiyn (01:17:45 PM): that will be very nice of you skanda ji
dnd108 (01:18:45 PM): during the dasa of AK in Vimsottari dasa it
tends to purify the person by punishing it for the bad deeds
especialy is Saturn is AK
skanda_kumara (01:18:54 PM): I agree with you here
dnd108 (01:19:16 PM): in Narayana dasa sign occipied by Ak should
give excellent results
skanda_kumara (01:19:32 PM): why do u say so???
dnd108 (01:19:34 PM): in drig dasa we use Ak to time renuncuation
dnd108 (01:19:45 PM): becuase AK is Narayan
skanda_kumara (01:20:05 PM): it all depends i would say
dnd108 (01:20:53 PM): these are standard rules
skanda_kumara (01:20:58 PM): if its in a bad state ... how can it
give good results???
skanda_kumara (01:21:10 PM): hmmm we can confirm it with Gurudeva
dnd108 (01:21:18 PM): how can AK be in bad state?
jkdasgupta_in (01:21:25 PM): namaste all
skanda_kumara (01:21:26 PM): I mean Deb etc
dnd108 (01:21:54 PM): if the planet is debilitated that doesn't mean
automatically it is in bas state
dnd108 (01:22:10 PM): it can still give good results
skanda_kumara (01:22:10 PM): then how would you define a bad state
skanda_kumara (01:22:24 PM): yes ... if its lord of quadrants
skanda_kumara (01:22:40 PM): but why shd it give only good results
skanda_kumara (01:22:52 PM): ???
dnd108 (01:23:03 PM): graha ucce niche va sri manta ha
dnd108 (01:23:15 PM): upadesa sutras 2.4.8
dnd108 (01:23:21 PM): 2,4,28
skanda_kumara (01:23:23 PM): that applies to any planet ...
skanda_kumara (01:23:28 PM): not only to AK
dnd108 (01:23:56 PM): true so why not to AK?
dnd108 (01:24:10 PM): debilitated planets can give money
skanda_kumara (01:24:44 PM): that was based purely on a monetary
point of view
dnd108 (01:24:57 PM): i would look into avastas of the planets for
bad state of it
dnd108 (01:25:09 PM): rather than exaltation or debilitation
skanda_kumara (01:25:23 PM): FYI, I have seen charts where deb
planet has bad results

dnd108 (01:25:27 PM): becuase there can also be cancellation of

debilitation
skanda_kumara (01:25:38 PM): I myself have 4 exalted and 1deb in Rasi
dnd108 (01:25:53 PM): in Vimsottari dasa?
skanda_kumara (01:25:58 PM): I havent experience all good results ...
dnd108 (01:26:37 PM): but you should if you have 4 exalted planets
dnd108 (01:26:45 PM): according to what you just said
skanda_kumara (01:27:06 PM): I havent .. during AD of Venus .. where
I lost a job and no pay for a year!!!!
dnd108 (01:27:25 PM): sorry to hear that
skanda_kumara (01:27:44 PM): oh no ... I mean I want to see the
rules working .. nothing personal
dnd108 (01:27:58 PM): but from that we can conclude that exaltation
or debilitation is not all in all
skanda_kumara (01:28:02 PM): yes
dnd108 (01:28:09 PM): try to see it in Narayana dasa
skanda_kumara (01:29:04 PM): I can explain it using ND ..
skanda_kumara (01:29:07 PM): to soem extent
dnd108 (01:29:17 PM): ok
skanda_kumara (01:29:28 PM): but I feel some knowledge is
missing ... and we need to do more study on it
dnd108 (01:29:52 PM): i also feel the same in my case which is why
we are having this discussion
skanda_kumara (01:30:01 PM): sure
dnd108 (01:30:14 PM): it's like churning the joghurt than the butter
will come
skanda_kumara (01:30:19 PM): indeed
dnd108 (01:30:24 PM): and from there ghee
dnd108 (01:30:38 PM): but now at least we have something to ask
Sanjayji
dnd108 (01:30:46 PM): and get his input
skanda_kumara (01:30:54 PM): sure ... shd we stop here and continue
later on
dnd108 (01:31:00 PM): ok
******************* ARGALA CONTINUED ********************************
sanjayrath (12:58:19 PM): Where had we stopped last time Narayan?
skanda_kumara (12:59:00 PM): Ok we said that when Narayana Dasa
of a
Rasi starts it sustains the rasis that it has argala over.
skanda_kumara (12:59:21 PM): that was when u had to leave
sanjayrath (12:59:28 PM): Let us not get into Narayana and other
dasa now..let us just discuss argala
skanda_kumara (12:59:33 PM): ok
sanjayprabhakaran (01:00:24 PM): pratipad?
sanjayrath (01:00:51 PM): Now, Argala of any planet on a bhava is
beneficial for the Bhava
skanda_kumara (01:00:58 PM): ok
sanjayrath (01:02:15 PM): How it shall benefit is to be seen from
the matters signified by the Bhava and the nature of the planet visa-vis the Bhava, and the karaka of the house where it is
placed..i.e. both are to be considered

skanda_kumara (01:03:01 PM): can u give an example?

sanjayrath (01:03:35 PM): For example, Jupiter in the ninth house is
very friendly to the Karaka for the 9th and it is also a Karaka for
the 9th house, so its Argala on the 8th will surely benefit the
native in the long run by removing debts by giving money and good
fortune
sanjayrath (01:05:31 PM): The same is not true if Saturn is in the
ninth house. Saturn is not comfortable in the ninth house and if it
has an adverse aspect on the Sun and 8th lord, the native mayb e
steeped in debt, yet he will not die, the sukha argala i.e.
sanjayrath (01:06:46 PM): on the sixth house is very beneficial for
the 6th house and he will surely promote success in battles..BUT
there will be battles and battles all the time and also victory
after victory..
skanda_kumara (01:07:15 PM): ok I see, so we take 1. The planet
which gives argala 2. Which house it is in 3. If the planet is good
in that house
skanda_kumara (01:07:26 PM): ok gotcha
skanda_kumara (01:07:45 PM): so the karaka is very important as
given by sage satyacharya
sanjayrath (01:08:48 PM): The mot difference is that the 6th house
has 2 Karaka - Mars & Saturn and here Saturn will give enemies as it
will promote the 6th house matters governed by it, and it will also
destroy enemies as it is inimical to Mars the other Karaka of 6th
house
sanjayrath (01:09:19 PM): For the 8th house, saturn will surely
promote the 8th house and then it will extract every punishment for
sins committed in last birthss
skanda_kumara (01:09:29 PM): ok
sanjayrath (01:10:24 PM): That is the main difference..you got to
see the house concerned and its significations as well
skanda_kumara (01:10:29 PM): sure
sanjayrath (01:12:40 PM): Now as a test case, explain the Argala of
Jupiter on the 5th house by say being in (1) 6th house (2) 8th house
sanjayrath (01:13:35 PM): Go on Narayana
skanda_kumara (01:13:42 PM): Here Jupiter wont be comfortable in 6H
and it is enemy of Saturn but not with Mars
sanjayrath (01:14:43 PM): OK
skanda_kumara (01:14:57 PM): Hence it will affect Intelligence to a
large extent but it could give children as
skanda_kumara (01:15:13 PM): Jupiter is friendly with Mars
skanda_kumara (01:15:51 PM): Also Mars represents debts and he will
remove debts
skanda_kumara (01:15:59 PM): He meaning Jupiter
sanjayrath (01:16:20 PM): But Mars is the remover of debts..not giver
skanda_kumara (01:16:26 PM): oh ok
sanjayrath (01:16:31 PM): Besides sixth really is not for debts
skanda_kumara (01:16:41 PM): really???
skanda_kumara (01:16:52 PM): is it 8H?

sanjayrath (01:17:03 PM): *th house is the 'Nija' o

sanjayrath (01:17:13 PM): yes it is the 8th house
skanda_kumara (01:17:18 PM): ok
skanda_kumara (01:17:43 PM): But Jupiter will also have control over
enemies
skanda_kumara (01:17:51 PM): and limit them
sanjayrath (01:18:19 PM): Now look at it like this..First step: List
the karaka for the 5th house and 6th house here 5th (Jup) and 6th (
Mars & Sat)
sri999 (01:18:24 PM): runa vimochana mangala stotra
skanda_kumara (01:19:07 PM): ok
skanda_kumara (01:20:40 PM): go on gurudeva
sanjayrath (01:21:13 PM): Now just as Saturn promoted HIS OWN stuff
in the bhavas he had argala on, so also Jupiter will promote the
same for the 5th house..many children are promised. Here we are NOT
BOTHERED ABOUT 6TH HOUSE
skanda_kumara (01:21:25 PM): ok
skanda_kumara (01:22:13 PM): so the planet will promote the matters
governed by it ... ok got it
sanjayrath (01:23:01 PM): Since it is friendly to one Karaka Mars
and neutral with the other karaka Saturn, Jupiter in the 6th will
also promote authority (5th house matter) over servants (Sat-karaka
of 6th) and police, power brokers etc (Mars)
skanda_kumara (01:23:25 PM): ok
sanjayrath (01:23:39 PM): In this manner you can easily say how
things are getting promoted
skanda_kumara (01:24:08 PM): ok lets take another example
sanjayrath (01:24:11 PM): Jupiter in 6th will employ MARTIAN means
to get POWER
skanda_kumara (01:24:21 PM): ok
sanjayrath (01:24:51 PM): Jupiter in 6th will employ Saturnine means
(servants, hard work) to gain authority
shail_c (01:24:54 PM): Is it because it is friendly to Mars??
sanjayrath (01:25:16 PM): Yes..it is friendly to Mars AND NEUTRAL to
Saturn
pvr108 (01:25:24 PM): What about Jupiter in 8th?
sanjayrath (01:25:28 PM): Not inimical to saturn
sanjayrath (01:25:52 PM): Narayana give it a try..
skanda_kumara (01:26:05 PM): ok
skanda_kumara (01:26:22 PM): Now we have to consider 7H and 8H
skanda_kumara (01:26:35 PM): Karaka for 7H is Venus and that of 8His
Saturn
sanjayrath (01:26:45 PM): Why seventh house? we are seeing the
argala of 8th house on 5th
skanda_kumara (01:26:51 PM): oh ok
skanda_kumara (01:26:54 PM): sorry
pvr108 (01:26:58 PM): OK then, you're looking at Jupiter's argala on
7th and not on 5th. OK, go ahead
skanda_kumara (01:27:09 PM): I will stick to 8H
skanda_kumara (01:27:21 PM): Karaka for 8H is Saturn
pvr108 (01:27:33 PM): ok, take Jupiter on 8th. First explain his

argala on 5th and then 7th

skanda_kumara (01:27:54 PM): ok
skanda_kumara (01:28:11 PM): Jupiter is inimical to Saturn
skanda_kumara (01:28:15 PM): sorry Neutral
skanda_kumara (01:28:45 PM): So it will not harm matters pertaining
to 5H as explained earlier
pvr108 (01:29:09 PM): What if Sun was in 8th? What is the impact of
his argala on 5th?
skanda_kumara (01:29:32 PM): That shd also help
skanda_kumara (01:29:44 PM): as Sun & Jupiter are friends
pvr108 (01:29:50 PM): y jup?
skanda_kumara (01:30:06 PM): as Jupiter is Karaka of 5H
sanjayrath (01:30:15 PM): Thats NOT satisfactory..will not harm is
not the issue out here..what will happen?
skanda_kumara (01:30:50 PM): he will give happiness from child
skanda_kumara (01:31:02 PM): as this is sukhargala
sanjayrath (01:31:22 PM): You see Jupiter is the karaka for 5 hence
it will promote 5 and children it is OK as you have pointed out, but
what about authority, power etc?
skanda_kumara (01:31:55 PM): it will promote authority thru
occult/deceptive/surreptitious means
skanda_kumara (01:32:30 PM): it will give power thru hard work & toil
sanjayrath (01:33:57 PM): Authority is towards subordinates, while
Power is over the public..authority is often forced by circumstance
while power is given by the people one comes into contact with or
public at large
skanda_kumara (01:34:16 PM): ok
sanjayrath (01:35:22 PM): Saturn is the Karaka for 8th house, hence
there will be authority over subordinates and promotions etc are
likely thorugh retirement (saturn ) of another etc, but no power is
promised by this position
pvr108 (01:35:33 PM): sanjay, what if Sun was in 8th and having
argala on 5th? sun is friendly to Jupiter (5th karaka). but he is
inimical to 8th kraka saturn. how to we mix these different factors
then?
sanjayrath (01:36:07 PM): You have to be very specific about
defining the argala..being sukhargala it promotes the well being of
children
skanda_kumara (01:36:15 PM): ok
sri999 (01:36:16 PM): sanjayji pls enlighten
shail_c (01:36:47 PM): Can I seek a clarification? I understand that
Shani is inmical to Sun but not vis-e-versa
sanjayrath (01:37:02 PM): One sec Narasimha let me finish the
philosophy..see Chanakya nti based on this argala of 8th on fifth
house..Rinakari Pita (a father always in debt) is the greatest enemy
of his children. Thus Guru in 8th is a greeat blessing in a chart as
the native is never the real enemy of his children and will always
see to their happiness
skanda_kumara (01:38:31 PM): ok

sanjayprabhakaran (01:38:46 PM): isn't Guru in 8th an asura yoga?

sanjayrath (01:39:13 PM): Yet in another way it causes asura yoga as
it is the representative of Bhagavan going to the t8h house..however
8th house is not that simply defined ..think
sanjayrath (01:40:05 PM): Now to Narasimha, being inimical to 8th
house, authority is denied but then the children are promoted
pvr108 (01:41:18 PM): children are promoted because Jupiter is a
friend of Sun. Why is authority denied?
skanda_kumara (01:41:38 PM): Sun opposes Saturn ... hence
sri999 (01:42:08 PM): mythology says why saturn is inimical to sun
his father,saturn's step mother could not bear the intense heat or
radiance generated by sun akshaya ,repalced chaya & saturn was
born ....chaya putra ....
sanjayrath (01:42:41 PM): Because Saturn the zkarak of 8 is highly
inimical to sun..another Chanakya Niti (A king falls from
power/authority not because of enemies b ut because of bad servants)
pvr108 (01:44:16 PM): the 5th shows two things - authority and
children. i am still unclear about how we r separating the two. for
one, we're using the planet's relationship with 5th karaka. for the
other, we are using the planet's relationship with the karaka of the
house occupied by it. y?
sanjayrath (01:44:37 PM): Now Narayana try another - What is the
impact of Saturn in 3 on wealth?
shail_c (01:44:55 PM): Sun - authority - is obstructed by inmical
servan
shail_c (01:45:06 PM): servant- Saturn
sanjayrath (01:45:22 PM): Narasimha, because Jupiter will ensure
that its argala on the 5th will not disturb its own karakatwa
pvr108 (01:45:35 PM): but, i am asking about sun.
sanjayrath (01:46:01 PM): Sun is friendly to Jupiter,
pvr108 (01:46:11 PM): sun in 8th having sukhargala on 5th - 5th
shows both authority and children.
sanjayrath (01:46:39 PM): True but authority is not a pure
Jupiterian function alone
pvr108 (01:46:45 PM): yes, but for judging authority, y r we seeing
the 8th karaka? y not the 5th karaka itself? 5th shows authority
aliong with children
pvr108 (01:47:12 PM): y r we not seeing the karaka of authority but
seeing 8th karaka?
sanjayrath (01:47:37 PM): It has shades of Mars..
pvr108 (01:47:50 PM): then, sun is a close friend of mars.
pvr108 (01:48:07 PM): y doesn't sun in 8th give authority due to his
argala on 5th?
sanjayrath (01:48:37 PM): But saturn is not..and he will not allow
the sun to sit in his house and end up benefiting his enemy..no way
skanda_kumara (01:49:37 PM): so the planet argalaing the house will
do so if its in a good house and its good friend or neutral to the
karaka of the house
pvr108 (01:49:38 PM): y will then Saturn allow Sun to sit in his

(signified) house and benefit Jupiter's matter?

sanjayrath (01:49:51 PM): Argala means that the Sun wants to give
authority, but since this is the 8th house, it will not happen.
Instead if the Sun was in 6th house where both Mars & Sat are karaka
it will happen
pvr108 (01:50:05 PM): saturn is not more fond of Jupiter than Mars
anyway.
sanjayrath (01:50:54 PM): True, but Saturn is not going to
disapprove of Suns action
pvr108 (01:51:05 PM): It makes sense, but I still I don't see why
all this analysis applies only to authority and not to children.
Remove and Jupiter and children from the analysis and substitute
Mars and authority. same logic then...
sanjayrath (01:51:08 PM): towards Jupiter
pvr108 (01:51:17 PM): y
sanjayrath (01:51:31 PM): Saturn is only against Sun helping Mars
pvr108 (01:51:44 PM): and not against sun helping jupiter? why?
sanjayrath (01:52:10 PM): Because Saturn is NEUTRAL towars JUPITER,..
pvr108 (01:52:45 PM): i c
sanjayrath (01:52:58 PM): So, you see the importance of sambandha as
well in this?
pvr108 (01:53:08 PM): yes, now i am very clear
pvr108 (01:53:27 PM): let us proceed to what u asked narayan: saturn
in 3rd having dhanargala on 2nd
skanda_kumara (01:53:35 PM): ok
skanda_kumara (01:54:02 PM): 2H karaka is Jupiter and 3H karaka is
Mars
sanjayrath (01:54:03 PM): Now the Argala concept in its higher level
involves sambandha of the Graha as well and a great Jyotishaa shall
also consider tatkalika sambandha
skanda_kumara (01:54:17 PM): hmmm
pvr108 (01:54:44 PM): tatkalika? how to use it? what is difference
bwteen using tatkalika / natural / compound?
sanjayrath (01:55:06 PM): we shall take that at a later date..use
the natural for now
sanjayrath (01:55:33 PM): Go on..narayan
pvr108 (01:55:47 PM): only tatkalika or compound?
sanjayrath (01:56:23 PM): ..basic for now ..
skanda_kumara (01:56:25 PM): ok
skanda_kumara (01:56:55 PM): Saturn is NEUTRAL to Jupiter & INIMICAL
to Saturn
pvr108 (01:57:49 PM): u mean mars
skanda_kumara (01:57:53 PM): So Saturn in 3H wont be able to promote
family, wealth etc as it is INIMICAL to the Karaka of 3H where its
placed
skanda_kumara (01:57:56 PM): yes MArs sorry
skanda_kumara (01:58:56 PM): and being in 3H it kills all
initiatives, siblings and courage
sanjayrath (01:59:26 PM): But Saturn is Neutral to Jupiter, so wjhy
should saturn not want to promite wealth out here?
sanjayrath (01:59:43 PM): Besides Mars will not OBJECT if Saturn
does so..
skanda_kumara (01:59:49 PM): yes I get it
skanda_kumara (01:59:52 PM): its clear now

sanjayrath (02:00:01 PM): After all Mars is a good friend of Jup

skanda_kumara (02:00:11 PM): Saturn will promote wealth & family
skanda_kumara (02:00:20 PM): nad provide means of sustainance
sanjayrath (02:00:38 PM): Must say good night..I hope this has..wait
why family and why speech..later..you please continue
pvr108 (02:00:43 PM): Mars wants to help Jupiter's matters, but
Saturn has only moderate interest in obeying either. y is the 3rd
house placement of Saturn still considered excellent?
pvr108 (02:00:50 PM): OK, good night!
sanjayprabhakaran (02:01:06 PM): goodnight
pvr108 (02:01:36 PM): Narayan, who signified family? Jupiter or
somebody else?
skanda_kumara (02:01:44 PM): Jupiter
pvr108 (02:01:47 PM): Speech is Jupiter and secondarily Mercury
skanda_kumara (02:01:53 PM): yes
pvr108 (02:02:23 PM): Jupiter signifies 2nd house overall, but not
family. Just like Jupiter signified 5th, but not quite the planet of
authority.
skanda_kumara (02:02:30 PM): ok
skanda_kumara (02:02:37 PM): Speech will be Mercury
skanda_kumara (02:02:51 PM): but Saturn is a friend of Mercury isint
he???
pvr108 (02:02:51 PM): Jupiter signifies 2nd, wealth and speech. But
mainly Moon and secondarily Venus are the family planets. That'y
sri999 (02:03:00 PM): yes
skanda_kumara (02:03:09 PM): ok
pvr108 (02:03:11 PM): Moon is exalted in Ta and Venus owns it. Ta is
the 2nd house of the natural zodiac
skanda_kumara (02:03:17 PM): yes
pvr108 (02:03:44 PM): Now look at the relations of Mars (3rd karaka)
and Saturn with each of these 2nd signifiers.
skanda_kumara (02:03:53 PM): ok
sri999 (02:04:05 PM): narshimaji venus & moon combimation is called
adhi yoga????
skanda_kumara (02:04:19 PM): nope its not
pvr108 (02:04:30 PM): adhi yoga is benefics in 6th, 7th and 8th from
Moon.
skanda_kumara (02:04:39 PM): we discussed Adhi yoga earlier
skanda_kumara (02:04:43 PM): yes thats it
sri999 (02:04:45 PM): k
skanda_kumara (02:05:17 PM): Mars and Venus are enemies
skanda_kumara (02:05:28 PM): Saturn aand Venus are friends
pvr108 (02:05:43 PM): but moon is the main signifier of family.
skanda_kumara (02:05:49 PM): ok
skanda_kumara (02:05:55 PM): so Moon has no enemies
sanjayprabhakaran (02:06:15 PM): actually moon has no enimity
sanjayprabhakaran (02:06:27 PM): to others...other planet like
saturn are inimical to it
skanda_kumara (02:07:23 PM): So Saturn will help Moon(Family) but
will Mars Allow it???
skanda_kumara (02:07:34 PM): thats the question Narasimha?

pvr108 (02:08:15 PM): saturn, being in 3rd, has a chance to

influence 2nd. As Mercury is a friend of Saturn, Saturn is most
willing to help speech and moderately willing to help wealth and
family.
pvr108 (02:08:48 PM): However, Saturn is under Mars's control as he
is in 3rd. Mars is most keen to help Jupiter and Moon's matters and
ok with Mercury.
skanda_kumara (02:09:07 PM): ok
pvr108 (02:09:30 PM): So Saturn in 3rd helps wealth through forceful
means.
pvr108 (02:09:36 PM): (Mars)
skanda_kumara (02:09:38 PM): sok
pvr108 (02:09:45 PM): He helps speech through humility (Saturn)
skanda_kumara (02:09:45 PM): let me recap here
sanjayprabhakaran (02:09:47 PM): so all three planet, source house
karaka and detination house karaka planets common intention only
benifits?
pvr108 (02:09:56 PM): yes
pvr108 (02:10:36 PM): the destination house karakas are the final
receivers of the benefits of argala (Moon, Jup, Merc signifying
various 2nd house matters here).
pvr108 (02:10:53 PM): the planet causing argala is the main agent of
this benefit/influence.
pvr108 (02:11:20 PM): the source house karaka (Mars signifying 3rd
here) is the one having control over the whole transaction.
skanda_kumara (02:11:50 PM): and we have to undertand relationship
between 1 & 2 2 & 3 and 1 & 3
pvr108 (02:11:59 PM): The relationships between the three ends of
this triangle matter.
pvr108 (02:12:05 PM): yes
skanda_kumara (02:12:18 PM): oh ok
sanjayprabhakaran (02:12:43 PM): so the Moon significations from 2nd
house willnot benifit as Saturn is enemy of Moon ?
pvr108 (02:12:57 PM): the relationship between 1 and 2 is the main
thing. relationship between 2 and 3 can alter the degree
drastically. Relationship between 1 and 3 adds more motivation to
the whole transaction.
skanda_kumara (02:13:12 PM): ok
pvr108 (02:13:49 PM): Saturn may not try hard to help Moon's 2nd
house matters. But Mars will try to force him to help.
skanda_kumara (02:13:57 PM): ok
sanjayprabhakaran (02:14:02 PM): hmm..
pvr108 (02:14:16 PM): finally the argala is exerted more like that
of Mars, i.e. in a Martian way.
**************************** END ************************************

Dear JLji
Jai Shree Ram
Thanks for your mail. It is better to be a student

of Jyotish.
I am also a student of jyotish and I will be glad to
provide
you friendly guidance as per my littile knowledge
so feel free
to ask your conceptual doubts through list.
However you should note some points before you
learn jyotish.
Jyotish and all secrate things are governed by 8th
house.
When you perform activities related to some
house,that house becomes
stronger.
So when you do things related to jyotish,8th
house becomes stronger.
You know that 8th is a bad house and it can
create troubles.
Now 8th is marak for 2nd and 7th house. So if
these houses are weak,
strong 8th house can destroy them. You can check
your shadbal and
sarvashtakvarg for strength of these houses. Once
you decide to learn
jyotish,you should take care to make these houses
stronger else it can
result in troubles. Similarly check the house for
which 8th is Badhak.
You would like to make that house strong too.For
char,sthir and
dwiswabhav
Lagn,10th,2nd and 12th houses are obstructed by
8th house. Similarly
you
can evaluate virodh-Argala caused by 8th house
on 9th,11th,6th house.
A strong 8th house will oppose results of these
houses. If these

results
are good, you have to make them stronger.
All these things can be strengthened by
(1)performing activities related to relevent house.
(2)associating and pleasing persons connected to
relevent planet.
(3)using objects/colours connected to relevent
sign.
This is the reason why elders prohibit learning of
these things.
Many times we can not conclude whether the
results are good or bad.
In such cases note that strong will give good
results and weak will
give bad results. For example 8th is marak for 7th
house when 7th is
weak.
If 7th is strong,8th will provide resources by
causing Dhan-Argala.
Similarly you can also find houses which will give
stronger results.
If you find that 6th/12th are becoming strong,you
may need to take
care.
Always remember:
Samarath ko nahi dosh gosai OR Pawan jagawat
Aag ko deepai det
bujhahi
It means that wind will extinguish lamp but will
increase fire.
Because lamp is small/weak while fire is
big/strong.
If you are still interested in learning, post
analysis of your chart
with respect to above points and find out which
houses will suffer

and which you will make strong and how.

Thanks.
Anil