Professional Documents
Culture Documents
CRIMINAL DIVISION
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UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
:
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v.
:
:
DARON D. WINT,
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:
Defendant.
:
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Washington, D.C.
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(202) 879-1058
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P R O C E E D I N G S
THE DEPUTY CLERK:
2015-CF1-7047.
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MS. BACH:
THE COURT:
MS. MILLER:
Good morning.
Good morning, Your Honor.
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THE COURT:
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MR. AGO:
Good morning.
Good morning, Your Honor.
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THE COURT:
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MS. LAWSON:
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Emily Miller
Arthur Ago on
Good morning.
Good morning.
of Mr. Wint.
THE COURT:
The defendant
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(Bench conference).
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THE COURT:
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MS. BACH:
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THE COURT:
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MR. AGO:
(Defendant present).
MR. AGO:
Court.
THE COURT:
MR. AGO:
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THE COURT:
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Marshal.
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Okay.
THE COURT:
it.
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MR. AGO:
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THE COURT:
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MS. BACH:
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THE COURT:
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Very well.
Okay.
Okay, thank you.
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THE DEFENDANT:
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THE COURT:
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All right.
Daron Wint.
Counsel, this matter is here
THE COURT:
MR. AGO:
THE COURT:
MS. BACH:
All right.
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witness.
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THE COURT:
please.
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Thereupon,
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JEFFREY OWENS,
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DIRECT EXAMINATION
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BY MS. BACH:
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name and spell your last name for the court reporter?
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Since 2002.
And how long have you been with the major case unit?
Since 2003.
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Yes.
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Yes, I did.
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warrant affidavit?
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Yes, I did.
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Yes.
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MS. BACH:
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BY MS. BACH:
Q
affidavit.
A supplement?
A supplement, yes.
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Yes, I would.
MS. BACH:
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THE COURT:
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MR. AGO:
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THE COURT:
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MS. BACH:
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THE COURT:
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MS. BACH:
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THE COURT:
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BY MS. BACH:
Yes, I do.
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jumpsuit on.
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MS. BACH:
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THE COURT:
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MR. AGO:
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THE COURT:
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No.
The record will reflect the
identification.
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BY MS. BACH:
Q
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warrant.
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Yes, I have.
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strangulation.
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trauma?
That's correct.
Domino's Pizza.
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Yes, I did.
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their will.
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house.
Q
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Yes.
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Works.
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MR. AGO:
comptroller or controller?
THE WITNESS:
MR. AGO:
Is it
Controller.
Controller.
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THE COURT:
Control?
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MS. BACH:
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BY MS. BACH:
Control.
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Was
Yeah.
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There are
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CODIS match between the pizza crust that was recovered in the
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Do you know, since the time that this affidavit was prepared,
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yes, I did.
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Yes.
Yeah.
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Yes, it was.
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Porsche?
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vest.
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I'm sorry?
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Yes.
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testing?
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Yes, I did.
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their profiles are consistent with the DNA that was recovered
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one-hundred-dollar bills.
Q
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within?
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Yes.
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home?
Yes.
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defense.
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Yes, it is.
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that?
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Yes.
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MS. BACH:
THE COURT:
Any objection?
It will be received.
MS. BACH:
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BY MS. BACH:
Q
Sir, when Mr. Wint was arrested on May 21st, how was
he traveling?
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Yes.
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Mr. Wint?
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cash.
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I'm sorry.
Yes.
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30 thousand dollars?
A
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Court's indulgence.
I have nothing
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THE COURT:
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MR. AGO:
Cross-examination, counsel.
Thank you, Your Honor.
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CROSS-EXAMINATION
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BY MR. AGO:
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preparation for this hearing, did you take any other notes or
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this case?
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Yes.
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Yes.
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No.
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Yes.
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No.
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directly?
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No.
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Yes.
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Yes.
Okay.
or those detectives?
Yes.
videotaped or recorded?
Yeah.
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recordings?
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No.
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spoke to the police or did the police have to go out and get
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him?
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point.
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police?
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the police tape and he wanted his car back and he made
W-1?
Yes.
Okay.
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Okay.
So in other words what I'm saying is the tape wasn't
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up and then W-1 went through the tape to park the car, the
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made himself known who he was and he wanted his car back.
Q
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family?
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Yeah.
At that moment?
Yeah.
And did the police speak with W-1 on the scene other
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Yeah.
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I know Detective
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one that actually drove W-1 to the police station for the
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interview.
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Okay.
Is it at that moment, though, that W-1 was
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Yeah.
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No.
Okay.
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No, he wasn't.
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MS. BACH:
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THE COURT:
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MR. AGO:
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THE COURT:
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(Bench conference).
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THE COURT:
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MR. AGO:
Sustained.
There is evidence that's -Approach.
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that the police seized from the BMW -- let me back up.
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are five or six cars, maybe even seven that are described in
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this case.
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There
THE COURT:
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MR. AGO:
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THE COURT:
Yes.
You dispute that, counsel?
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MS. BACH:
hearing and I would just ask, but to the extent that this
THE COURT:
as -- as his car?
MR. AGO:
THE COURT:
That's fine.
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THE COURT:
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MR. AGO:
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BY MR. AGO:
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Yeah.
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Okay.
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secure.
Did the police make certain that W's [sic] car was
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homicide?
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enter W-1's car after W-1 -- after W-1 identified which car
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was his --
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Yes.
is that correct?
Correct.
Okay.
the police had the car towed and searched the car; is that
right?
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Okay.
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And between the time that W-1 identified his car and
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when it was taken into police custody the car wasn't entered
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No.
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All right.
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Okay.
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that correct?
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Did this occur -- did what you just say occur during
at homicide?
Yeah.
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No.
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No.
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MS. BACH:
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THE COURT:
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Objection, relevance.
MR. AGO:
Honor.
THE COURT:
Thank you.
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BY MR. AGO:
Q
is that correct?
Yes.
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MS. BACH:
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BY MR. AGO:
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Keys or alarm --
THE COURT:
BY MR. AGO:
Overruled.
No.
MS. BACH:
THE COURT:
counsel.
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MS. BACH:
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THE COURT:
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BY MR. AGO:
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question?
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in the affidavit?
Q
Let me clarify.
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enter either the home or the garage all the way up until May
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14th?
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No.
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that he was able to enter the garage because the garage was
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open?
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THE COURT:
MR. AGO:
BY MR. AGO:
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the door up from the night before when he delivered the pizza
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at the 3201?
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He did not.
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Not to my recollection.
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All right.
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Savopoulos about money and how that money was collected and
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MS. BACH:
THE COURT:
MR. AGO:
THE COURT:
BY MR. AGO:
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Strike that.
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the bank manager and that bank -- and that employee then gave
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Yes.
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Okay.
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found a key to a red sports car, unlocked the car, placed the
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Yes.
Yes.
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of that?
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place.
Q
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provided.
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conversation with W-1 all they had about -- all the police
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right?
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Okay.
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Yeah.
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is that right?
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That's true.
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He initially
some facts.
Okay.
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Yeah.
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MS. BACH:
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THE WITNESS:
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THE COURT:
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THE WITNESS:
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Overruled.
I know it was after seven.
Seven p.m.
that is.
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BY MR. AGO:
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Yeah.
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Yes.
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I'm sorry?
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Yes.
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That is correct.
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right?
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That's correct.
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That's correct.
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right?
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Yeah.
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right?
Yeah.
right?
Okay.
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Yes.
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right?
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That's correct.
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Yeah.
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And that text was sent from W-1 to W-2 at about 9:00
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Yes.
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On -- on May 14?
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That is correct.
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That is correct.
Yes.
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where the other two were that were missing from the
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that correct?
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MS. BACH:
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THE COURT:
THE WITNESS:
BY MR. AGO:
Yes.
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Yes.
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and moved that money into a manila envelope and that manila
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envelope was something that he had taken from his own car?
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Right.
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Okay.
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Yeah.
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of page four?
car.
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Okay.
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Yes.
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And he then told the police that, um, the car was
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unlocked?
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That's correct.
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correct?
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I'm sorry?
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Yes.
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No.
Yes.
MS. BACH:
THE COURT:
THE WITNESS:
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BY MR. AGO:
Q
personally.
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Yeah.
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talking about.
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The text
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And there was a return text from W-1 that same night
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Yes.
Did you review that text or were you just told about
I was told.
Um, W-1 and the employee that W-1 was told to meet
it?
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Okay.
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at the bank?
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Okay.
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MR. AGO:
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THE COURT:
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MS. BACH:
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THE COURT:
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that?
For identification.
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MR. AGO:
one.
THE COURT:
MR. AGO:
MS. BACH:
MR. AGO:
THE COURT:
Is it on?
I'm sorry, Your Honor.
It's got to go through there, I'm sorry.
I apologize.
Counsel, would it -- would it make sense
MR. AGO:
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THE COURT:
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THE WITNESS:
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a.m.)
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(Defendant present).
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THE COURT:
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defendant.
All right, counsel, you may proceed.
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MR. AGO:
BY MR. AGO:
the bank.
Correct?
Yes.
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don't remember the exact time that the employee received the
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Okay.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
THE WITNESS:
THE COURT:
BY MR. AGO:
Yeah.
Okay.
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and Mr. Wallace -- the employee and -- the employee and W-1
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arrived at the bank before 9:50 a.m., and received the money
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Yes.
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time.
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Yeah.
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Okay.
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W-2 at 9:00 a.m. when he didn't receive the money until 9:50
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or 9:51 a.m.?
is wrong.
they don't obtain the money until the footage says 9:50.
I saw.
And the text, and I'm talking about the text from
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Yes.
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Correct.
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discrepancy?
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Yes, yes.
detective, right?
As the lead
Okay.
Myself, no.
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you, right?
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that, no.
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Yes.
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Okay.
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And were there any phone calls made between W-1 and
Mr. Savopoulos other than that -- strike that.
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Were there any phone calls made between W-1 and Mr.
Savopoulos on the morning of May 14th?
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Yes.
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text?
Yes.
And what was the text that you were -- that you were
told about?
Okay.
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call that --
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Correct.
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-- witness described?
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Correct.
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Were there any other phone calls between W-1 and Mr.
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May 14th?
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No.
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Yes.
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Okay.
And you only recall the one text and the one phone
call that you just described; is that right?
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remember that?
Correct.
Okay.
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Savopoulos, any other texts from the night of May 13th that
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you reviewed?
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Yes.
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No.
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Not to my knowledge.
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delivered?
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dollar amount.
Q
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That's correct.
Correct.
Okay.
package and after going to the bank with the employee, any
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Correct.
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Correct.
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Correct.
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dollars in cash?
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Yes.
Okay, he was?
Yes.
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Okay.
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Yes.
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Yeah.
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Okay.
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Okay.
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Yes.
officer?
I myself interviewed.
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No.
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Yes.
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That's correct.
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said to the employee that the cash was for an auction for
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Yes.
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at 3201 Woodland Drive, did W-1 tell the police that he saw
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correct?
That's correct.
Yes.
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right?
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That is correct.
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W-1, he did not make any effort to find Mr. Savopoulos and
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THE COURT:
the 14th?
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THE WITNESS:
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BY MR. AGO:
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On
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No.
Okay.
That's correct.
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instructions.
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Right.
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Right.
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Right.
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right?
your house.
W-1 didn't say, now that I'm here, now that I've
Okay.
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That's
I'm at
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Correct.
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Correct.
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Chantilly?
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Okay.
Did you confirm W-1's -- did the police confirm
MS. BACH:
approach.
THE COURT:
(Bench conference).
THE COURT:
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MS. BACH:
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THE COURT:
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MS. BACH:
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And so we think
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this goes beyond the probable cause finding that this Court
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MR. AGO:
W-1's credibility.
THE COURT:
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allow that.
MS. BACH:
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THE COURT:
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MS. BACH:
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THE COURT:
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MR. AGO:
Okay.
So I'll
Thank you.
To that question.
Thank you.
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BY MR. AGO:
Q
Because
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Is that
I have a more
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Yes.
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day?
MS. BACH:
THE COURT:
BY MR. AGO:
3201?
My understanding after.
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Both.
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-- can it be locked?
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correct?
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Yes.
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she was okay, and if so that she needed to get home because
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Brief indulgence.
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detective.
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Right?
MS. BACH:
THE COURT:
THE WITNESS:
BY MR. AGO:
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Yes, W-1 sent -- I'm sorry, when did -- when did W-1
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you don't.
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I can't approximate.
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Yes.
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Yes.
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house was on fire, and Detective Williams asked about how W-1
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that he, W-1, had gotten a call from American Iron Works
telling him that the house was on fire, that's how he knew to
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don't recall.
Q
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Okay.
How did W-1 learn that 3201 was on fire?
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Yes.
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Okay.
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MS. BACH:
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THE COURT:
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question.
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Sustained.
strike that.
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Not to my knowledge.
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I did not.
Not to my knowledge.
Yes.
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Best of my recollection.
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The affidavits?
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Yes.
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Yeah.
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correct?
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MS. BACH:
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(Bench conference).
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THE COURT:
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MS. BACH:
Is it in there?
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registration card.
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it up, but I just didn't want to feel like you're being blind
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MR. AGO:
Thank you.
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MR. AGO:
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THE COURT:
BY MR. AGO:
Yes.
defense two.
correct?
Yes.
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Okay.
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Yes.
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That entry.
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Yes.
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black backpack?
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Correct.
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Okay.
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No.
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Or a photocopy of it?
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No.
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other?
I can't say.
Okay.
Mosler, right?
Okay.
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Okay.
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right?
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Okay.
Did anyone confront W-1 as to why he had in his
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Mosler?
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bag in the text from W-1 to W-2, that wasn't ever recovered,
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correct?
Okay.
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You have
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no, I do not.
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car?
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MS. BACH:
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THE COURT:
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BY MR. AGO:
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that witness received a text from W-1, and the other employee
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controller.
Is that right?
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Yes, yes.
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correct?
Initially, no.
The controller
correct?
Yes.
Okay.
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Yes.
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Okay.
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Correct?
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W-2?
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Indirectly.
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Okay.
I guess what I'm trying to get at is your basis of
That's correct.
W-2?
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Okay.
And when did you become aware of W-2, not you, when
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In speaking to W-1.
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or is it on another date?
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the police?
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No.
Or listen to it?
Okay.
And let me ask was W-2 under arrest during the time?
No.
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No.
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Yes.
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Now, W-2, um, did W-2 have any agreements -- did W-2
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police?
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No.
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between W-2 and any party in this case is only with W-1; is
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that right?
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That's correct.
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62
1
2
3
4
bit, when Mr. Wint was, the night that he was arrested, there
Repeat that.
9
10
11
Correct.
12
And then the car that Mr. Wint was in when he was
13
14
car, correct?
15
Yes.
16
17
18
19
All right.
20
21
22
You mean the first and the second time you listed
people?
23
Yes.
24
25
63
I'm going to the text now, between W-1 to W-2 and then
and then comments by W-2, other than those texts, were there
any other communications between W-2 and W-1 about the money
in this case?
MS. BACH:
10
THE COURT:
11
MR. AGO:
Objection.
12
13
THE COURT:
14
THE WITNESS:
15
BY MR. AGO:
16
17
18
fingerprints, correct?
No DNA or
19
Correct.
20
21
22
That's correct.
23
24
25
speak to W-3?
64
Yes.
7
8
MR. AGO:
request.
THE COURT:
Counsel, approach.
10
(Bench conference).
11
MS. BACH:
He either has it or he
12
didn't write notes about what he said but I'm just looking.
13
Court's indulgence.
14
the top.
Here we go.
15
16
BY MR. AGO:
17
18
other than the notes that you provided in the Jencks packet
19
20
21
Okay.
22
23
Now, um, um, did W-3 make itself known to the police
or did the police go out and find W-3?
24
25
65
Yes.
No.
No.
10
11
12
That's correct.
13
14
15
That is correct.
16
Um, now, um, and W-3 did not have any agreements, I
17
don't know if I asked this, but did not have any agreements
18
19
20
21
Okay.
22
23
24
25
66
and nobody else in this case knows W-3 as far as you know,
right?
Okay.
Yes.
10
11
12
13
14
Yes.
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Porsche?
A
Okay.
67
1
2
Correct.
Same direction.
In front.
10
And how close was the Porsche at that point when W-3
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
distance.
18
19
the Porsche was in the lane next to W-3's car; is that right?
20
Yes.
21
22
23
Yes.
24
25
68
It was up?
Yes.
Correct.
correct?
Yeah.
Slim, correct?
10
Yes.
11
12
Correct.
13
14
15
Correct.
16
And, um, the witness said, W-3 said that the driver
17
18
Correct.
19
20
correct?
21
Yes.
22
23
24
25
69
correct?
Yes.
That's correct.
Yes.
10
And, um, um, let me ask, W-3 tell you how long, for
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
Okay.
19
20
21
22
Avenue.
23
Okay.
24
25
W-3 talk about what else the Porsche was doing erratically or
70
W-3.
6
7
10
14th?
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
Okay.
Now, the, um -- you testified earlier that in
20
21
22
that right?
23
Yes.
24
25
That's correct.
71
1
2
Yes.
Once the fire was put out the police were able or
That's correct.
10
Okay.
11
12
13
That's correct.
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
Yes.
24
25
72
Yes.
3
4
8
9
Okay.
Did the DNA analyst use the -- use the terms major
10
11
12
Best of my recollection.
13
Did the DNA analyst tell you how they were able to
Excuse me.
14
determine which profile was the partial profile and which one
15
16
17
did you ask the DNA analyst whether the other profiles were
18
complete?
19
20
Okay.
21
22
Actually before
23
24
25
73
term loci?
No.
Yeah.
8
9
10
Okay.
Savopoulos?
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
is that right?
A
Is that right?
18
Yeah.
19
20
21
22
correct?
23
That's correct.
24
25
Yes.
74
5
6
7
me.
Wint?
10
Correct.
11
12
13
That's correct.
14
15
back up.
16
17
18
19
20
The swab that was recovered from Mr. Wint you were
I don't
21
the -- the profile recovered from that swab, you don't have
22
23
24
That's correct.
25
75
Okay.
All three.
10
Okay.
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
MR. AGO:
Honor.
THE COURT:
21
(Bench conference).
22
THE COURT:
23
24
25
We've been
MR. AGO:
76
THE COURT:
Forty-five minutes.
probably what we're going to do, based on what you know now
two o'clock.
MR. AGO:
THE COURT:
10
11
You're
12
13
14
THE WITNESS:
15
16
p.m.)
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
77
A F T E R N O O N
2
3
S E S S I O N
2015-CF1-7047.
THE COURT:
9
10
11
THE WITNESS:
12
THE COURT:
13
MR. AGO:
14
THE COURT:
15
MR. AGO:
16
BY MR. AGO:
17
You're
18
19
Tenleytown.
20
person who took the order over the phone and then the person
21
22
13th, correct?
23
Yes.
24
25
78
13th, correct?
Yes.
the person who took the order on the phone, um, received
correct?
Yes.
leave the pizzas on the front step and then leave, correct?
10
Correct.
11
12
13
right?
14
15
16
17
18
19
Correct.
20
Um, why -- did you ask the Domino's staff why there
21
22
23
24
25
you know, normally the -- the delivery person would ring the
79
system, that they looked it up and they saw that there were
Yes.
10
11
12
13
14
order.
Q
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
pizza.
22
Okay.
23
24
25
Yeah.
80
Now, when you spoke to the person who took the order
correct?
Yes.
that right?
Yes.
9
10
11
No.
12
Um, okay.
13
14
15
Correct.
16
17
on the phone and the person taking the order had to do with
18
19
right?
20
Yes.
21
22
23
Yes.
24
25
81
Yes.
Yes.
Okay.
Yes.
10
11
12
Yes.
13
14
15
Did not.
16
17
18
Correct.
19
20
or closed?
21
22
Okay.
23
24
25
82
1
2
5
6
MS. BACH:
THE COURT:
THE WITNESS:
10
11
Objection.
You may answer that, if he knows.
Repeat the question.
BY MR. AGO:
Q
Yes.
12
13
14
15
16
17
Savopoulos.
Q
Understood.
Or
18
that was just the text, you're talking about the text saying
19
package delivered?
20
21
22
23
Okay.
And that's the last phone interaction in terms of
24
25
83
Yes.
Okay.
3
4
14th?
That's correct.
10
that time?
11
MS. BACH:
12
THE COURT:
13
(Bench conference).
14
THE COURT:
15
MS. BACH:
16
go to probable cause.
17
18
19
probable cause.
20
THE COURT:
21
MR. AGO:
Why is it relevant?
The relevance is, as follows, Your Honor,
22
is, um, what links Mr. Wint to this house, according to the
23
24
of the 13th.
25
84
that night.
THE COURT:
THE COURT:
10
11
12
So.
BY MR. AGO:
Q
13
Yes.
14
15
16
17
18
19
Yes.
20
21
22
No.
23
24
25
85
The defendant?
Yes.
That's correct.
That's correct.
10
11
12
13
14
15
Okay.
And do you know whether or not he stayed at his
brother's house?
16
MS. BACH:
17
THE COURT:
18
BY MR. AGO:
19
20
21
is that correct?
22
Yeah.
23
24
25
Correct.
86
1
2
Yes.
home?
10
11
exact time.
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
Yes.
25
87
Hm-hmm.
Right?
10
11
12
13
14
Correct?
15
16
17
18
19
Yes.
20
21
22
23
MS. BACH:
24
BY MR. AGO:
25
Your Honor.
That is found?
88
MS. BACH:
THE COURT:
BY MR. AGO:
Objection.
Sustained.
Well, let me ask you this, the boot print that you
MS. BACH:
THE COURT:
10
11
Sustained, counsel.
BY MR. AGO:
Q
12
the home -- well, let me ask you, you never recovered any
13
boots that match any prints in the home from Mr. Wint or his
14
15
MS. BACH:
16
BY MR. AGO:
17
Is that correct?
18
THE COURT:
19
20
THE WITNESS:
21
BY MR. AGO:
22
23
24
25
Correct.
89
also, you never recovered any items missing from the home
No.
10
correct?
11
12
Yes.
13
14
Correct.
15
16
fingerprints?
17
MS. BACH:
18
THE COURT:
19
BY MR. AGO:
20
Objection.
You may rephrase, counsel.
21
the top of the stairs, they did not have Mr. Wint's DNA or
22
fingerprints on them?
23
MS. BACH:
Objection.
24
THE COURT:
25
(Bench conference).
90
THE COURT:
anything linking the, um, matches with Mr. Wint, you may ask
it that way.
MR. AGO:
MS. BACH:
Okay.
It just -- may I just -- just for the
THE COURT:
Very well.
10
11
BY MR. AGO:
12
13
14
those matches?
15
No.
16
17
18
right?
19
is that correct?
20
Yes.
21
22
23
MS. BACH:
24
BY MR. AGO:
25
Same objection.
That piece?
91
THE COURT:
Overruled.
THE WITNESS:
BY MR. AGO:
No.
Yeah.
basement?
Yes.
10
Correct.
11
12
13
No.
14
15
16
home, correct?
17
Yeah.
18
19
20
Correct.
21
22
No.
23
24
25
92
Yes.
3
4
5
asking?
Yes.
No.
10
11
vehicles?
12
13
14
Right.
15
Yes.
16
17
18
19
Yes.
20
No.
21
Um, the cell phones that were used in this case, the
22
23
this case, those were not recovered from Mr. Wint, his
24
25
MS. BACH:
93
1
2
THE COURT:
overruled.
MS. BACH:
THE COURT:
(Bench conference).
MS. BACH:
THE COURT:
9
10
11
No, no,
12
13
14
15
THE COURT:
16
MS. BACH:
17
18
19
20
21
THE COURT:
22
MS. BACH:
23
THE COURT:
24
25
94
it.
MR. AGO:
THE COURT:
MS. BACH:
10
8
9
6
7
Homes associated.
THE COURT:
11
Ex parte.
12
13
transcribed herein).
14
THE COURT:
15
16
17
MR. AGO:
18
THE COURT:
19
BY MR. AGO:
20
21
22
23
24
25
Correct.
MR. AGO:
95
2
3
BY MR. AGO:
Q
same cell phones, were any of them used on or after May 13th
MS. BACH:
THE COURT:
BY MR. AGO:
10
11
12
Yes.
13
All right.
14
15
Now, in your investigation you recovered what -what is -- it's a baseball bat in this case, correct?
16
Yeah.
17
18
bat that you suspect might have been used in this case,
19
correct?
20
Suspect, correct.
21
22
23
24
25
No.
THE COURT:
linked to him?
96
THE WITNESS:
BY MR. AGO:
3
4
Not linked.
or swords, correct?
Yes.
Yes.
10
home, correct?
11
Yes.
12
13
14
15
16
Yes.
17
18
correct?
19
That is correct.
20
21
22
23
Correct.
24
25
97
Correct.
Yes.
No.
boxes?
10
11
12
13
14
Yes.
15
16
17
18
THE COURT:
didn't you?
19
20
MR. AGO:
No.
vest.
21
THE COURT:
22
BY MR. AGO:
23
24
25
98
1
2
3
profile, correct?
MS. BACH:
THE COURT:
BY MR. AGO:
Objection.
Um, I'm going to overrule that.
THE COURT:
THE WITNESS:
10
BY MR. AGO:
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
MS. BACH:
So
99
1
2
THE COURT:
well, approach.
(Bench conference).
THE COURT:
match probability.
questions but earlier when you were talking about the vest he
10
I think
the alleles.
11
12
you know, you can ask him all day long but he keeps saying he
13
14
And so,
15
16
17
MS. BACH:
18
would just object because he has said now twice that it was a
19
20
21
to the pizza and that's not what his testimony has been so I
22
23
one.
24
THE COURT:
25
MS. BACH:
100
THE COURT:
MS. BACH:
Yes.
-- on the vest and one on the pizza, and
THE COURT:
Right.
unclear, maybe you all are clear, but I'm unclear, you keep
THE COURT:
10
11
Objection sustained.
BY MR. AGO:
Q
12
13
14
that right?
15
16
17
18
19
Okay.
20
21
22
23
Okay.
24
25
concerning the location of the pizza and the pizza boxes, was
101
that they were found in the bedroom where the adult decedents
Yes.
6
7
evidence technicians.
Q
8
9
10
Okay.
Now, one of the, um, wounds, some of the wounds that
11
Yes.
12
13
14
Yes, yes.
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
Okay.
Um, you've seen crime scene photos in this case,
correct?
23
Yeah.
24
25
recollection?
102
2
3
Of course.
MS. BACH:
approach.
THE COURT:
(Bench conference).
THE COURT:
MS. BACH:
You may.
10
with that.
11
12
pizza that they're referring to was eaten by the ATF and left
13
there.
14
THE COURT:
The
15
that was found by the MPD, that's not what you're talking
16
about?
17
MR. AGO:
18
MS. BACH:
19
I am.
No, it's not.
20
THE COURT:
21
MR. AGO:
22
23
24
25
MS. BACH:
There
they told us these were pictures that they took, and that's
103
MR. AGO:
THE COURT:
MS. BACH:
THE COURT:
MR. AGO:
No.
No?
Must be medical examiner photos, I must
have --
THE COURT:
10
11
12
MR. AGO:
13
MS. BACH:
14
15
MR. AGO:
16
MS. BACH:
17
MR. AGO:
18
MS. BACH:
19
MPD is in it.
No.
-- when you were there?
No.
Okay, having seen this, Your Honor, and
20
21
22
23
time --
24
25
THE COURT:
104
1
2
3
4
5
6
MS. BACH:
MR. AGO:
THE COURT:
9
10
But --
11
12
13
14
15
THE COURT:
16
MR. AGO:
17
THE COURT:
18
MR. AGO:
19
20
So this
Right.
Right?
They were there on the 14th but not
allowed in, they were there on the 15th and allowed in.
THE COURT:
21
day of the fire and whenever the medical examiner was there,
22
23
24
were trying to show that when the police and fire department
25
were there, that the, um, this pizza box was out there
105
offense.
examiner photographs were not taken until the day after the
fire when who knows who had been there, I'm not so sure of
MR. AGO:
that the pizza's recovered from the bedroom inside the house,
10
11
of the house.
12
This pizza is
So --
THE COURT:
13
14
15
MR. AGO:
16
MS. BACH:
17
THE COURT:
18
MR. AGO:
19
THE COURT:
20
MR. AGO:
Hm-hmm.
That is what he's talking about.
That is what he's talking about.
Right, but -- I'm sorry.
Go ahead.
So, my argument is this, that he, this
21
22
what around the house prior to the MPD entering, that he's
23
24
25
106
MS. BACH:
THE COURT:
he said.
10
11
12
13
MS. BACH:
the trash.
14
THE COURT:
15
MS. BACH:
16
THE COURT:
17
MR. AGO:
18
THE COURT:
Oh, okay.
Sorry.
That wasn't -But the crust is what's operative.
Well, whether it's a box or the crust it
19
wasn't discovered till the next -- the next day after who
20
21
22
MR. AGO:
23
24
25
107
THE COURT:
important as well.
perhaps 24 hours.
MS. BACH:
10
11
12
13
14
15
THE COURT:
So
16
17
18
THE COURT:
19
20
21
MR. AGO:
22
THE COURT:
23
MS. BACH:
24
MR. AGO:
25
MS. BACH:
108
1
2
THE COURT:
3
4
MR. AGO:
That's MPD.
THE COURT:
15th.
8
9
10
MR. AGO:
11
MS. BACH:
12
THE COURT:
13
MR. AGO:
14
THE COURT:
Now --
But --
15
16
17
view to suggest that this is the way it was found when it was
18
19
MR. AGO:
20
close-in photos but there are some photos where the garbage
21
22
they remove a trash bag, they opened up the trash bag and
23
24
25
is belied by.
109
THE COURT:
I just
it but I don't --
MR. AGO:
BY MR. AGO:
Very well.
10
of May?
11
MS. BACH:
12
THE COURT:
13
BY MR. AGO:
14
There is no surveillance
15
16
that correct?
17
MS. BACH:
18
THE COURT:
19
20
THE WITNESS:
21
BY MR. AGO:
22
23
24
days, correct?
25
MS. BACH:
110
THE COURT:
BY MR. AGO:
Sustained, counsel.
detective?
Twenty-first.
10
Twenty-first.
11
12
13
about that?
14
You're correct.
15
Okay.
16
17
MS. BACH:
18
THE COURT:
19
BY MR. AGO:
Objection.
You may rephrase it.
20
21
Yeah.
22
23
24
In the truck.
25
111
MS. BACH:
THE COURT:
BY MR. AGO:
5
6
Objection, Judge.
Sustained.
Yes.
10
11
Okay.
12
13
14
15
16
them?
17
Yes.
18
19
Correct.
20
21
22
23
24
Correct.
25
112
Yes.
Yes.
correct?
Yes.
Yes.
10
11
12
car?
13
In the car.
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
Okay.
You -- you recovered two bags that are associated
22
23
24
Yes.
25
113
bag, correct?
No.
Correct.
Yes.
10
11
12
Yes.
13
14
15
correct?
16
No.
17
18
19
All right.
20
21
Yes.
22
23
Free to leave.
24
25
114
Correct.
Yes.
Correct.
Correct.
10
11
Correct.
12
Okay.
13
14
15
Yes.
16
17
18
Yes.
19
Okay.
20
21
got the money, that evidence right there only comes from that
22
person?
23
MS. BACH:
24
THE COURT:
25
BY MR. AGO:
115
1
2
No.
7
8
9
It was questioned.
10
11
Yes.
12
13
The interview?
14
Okay.
15
He was free
Now, Mr. Wint, when -- when the, um, truck and the
16
17
18
19
MS. BACH:
20
THE COURT:
Sustained, counsel.
21
22
MR. AGO:
I do.
23
THE COURT:
24
(Bench conference).
25
MR. AGO:
It goes to flight.
116
front passenger was in contact with the police, and that was
MS. BACH:
7
8
9
THE COURT:
10
11
12
consciousness of guilt.
13
THE COURT:
14
15
16
17
MR. AGO:
18
THE COURT:
19
MR. AGO:
20
21
22
THE COURT:
23
24
25
THE COURT:
117
THE WITNESS:
p.m.)
4
5
6
7
8
9
Thank you.
THE COURT:
present.
10
BY MR. AGO:
11
12
detective.
13
that were in the car when Mr. Wint was stopped on the night
14
of the 21st, you have no evidence that Mr. Wint has any
15
16
correct?
17
18
19
20
vehicles.
21
22
Correct.
23
24
25
118
THE COURT:
BY MR. AGO:
3
4
Sustained.
MR. AGO:
THE COURT:
BY MR. AGO:
8
9
to W-1 at all?
10
11
12
13
14
answer is no.
Q
15
16
Okay.
In your affidavit you indicated that the offense
17
Yes.
18
Correct?
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
119
text.
8
9
Okay.
So it's the phone call to the controller, correct?
10
Correct.
11
12
Yes.
13
14
MS. BACH:
15
THE COURT:
16
19
20
21
Sustained.
please.
17
18
BY MR. AGO:
Q
is involved.
A
22
23
Theory, correct.
24
25
120
correct?
6
7
10
out what was going on, and the detective gave the defendant
11
12
13
14
Okay.
And that you also have spoken to people close to Mr.
15
Yes.
16
17
18
19
20
21
21st?
22
23
24
25
121
MS. BACH:
THE WITNESS:
THE COURT:
BY MR. AGO:
Objection.
Myself --
Sustained.
MS. BACH:
THE COURT:
10
THE WITNESS:
11
BY MR. AGO:
12
Yes.
13
14
him, correct?
15
16
That is correct.
(Thereupon, the Defendant and Defense Counsel
17
18
MR. AGO:
19
THE COURT:
20
Redirect, counsel.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION
21
22
BY MS. BACH:
Q
Did
23
any law enforcement officer ever speak directly with Mr. Wint
24
25
No.
122
1
2
Yes.
case?
Correct.
10
11
asking you about, did that front passenger tell you who gave
12
13
orders?
14
Yes.
15
Who?
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
who gave him the over seven thousand dollars in cash that was
23
in the truck?
24
Yeah.
25
Who?
123
gave him the over 10 thousand dollars or who had the over 10
Yes.
Who?
10
11
12
13
14
No.
15
16
17
himself?
18
19
20
21
Um, was W-1 the only car that was inside of the
yellow tape?
22
No.
23
24
25
No.
124
Was W-1 --
No.
changes in what W-1 stated, and I want to make sure that this
is clear.
10
11
Yes.
12
13
night before?
14
That's correct.
15
16
phone?
17
Yes.
18
And did W-1 freely let the police look at his phone?
19
Yes.
20
21
22
Yeah.
23
24
25
125
message and the timing when W-1 sent a text message with the
10
11
12
13
14
15
help you recall the specific time the photograph was center?
A
16
Yeah.
MS. BACH:
17
18
19
20
21
BY MS. BACH:
Q
22
Yes.
23
And at the top where it's sort of cut off can you
24
tell approximately or can you tell what time that was sent
25
from?
126
3
4
MS. BACH:
THE COURT:
MS. BACH:
THE COURT:
MS. BACH:
10
11
Yes.
Any objection?
Yes.
MR. AGO:
Your Honor.
12
13
THE COURT:
14
MR. AGO:
15
THE COURT:
There's none.
All right, it will be received.
16
17
18
19
20
BY MS. BACH:
Q
the photograph:
21
That's correct.
22
23
Yeah.
24
25
That's correct.
WTF?
127
W-2 text:
Correct?
That's correct.
W-1 text:
That's correct.
much it is?
That is correct.
10
That's correct.
11
12
13
40?
14
Yes.
15
16
17
18
That's correct.
19
20
21
Savopoulos family?
22
No.
23
24
No.
25
128
3
4
Yes.
No.
10
11
12
13
his face from the camera that was right over his head?
14
No.
15
16
individual who was with W-1 at the bank, did you have an
17
18
19
Yes.
20
21
between what that individual said and what W-1 said, correct?
22
That's correct.
23
24
with W-1 at the bank, did that individual think that W-1's
25
Do you remember?
129
I don't recall.
to why W-1 should leave the money in the vehicle and then
6
7
8
9
instruction.
Q
10
11
Um, now, you were asked about what W-1 did for Mr.
12
Savopoulos.
13
14
Purchasing
15
small objects, and gas and getting gas and picking up things,
16
yeah.
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
130
1
2
3
10
11
Yeah.
12
13
Yes.
14
15
MR. AGO:
16
17
THE COURT:
20
21
22
23
24
25
Objection's
overruled.
18
19
BY MS. BACH:
Q
corroborated?
A
No.
131
show that he was at the Savopoulos home on May 13th and 14th
cash?
Sure.
13th and 14th when W-1 delivered the cash did you find any
10
11
12
of time, no.
Q
13
14
and I think you indicated that the folks who knew about the
15
money were Mr. Savopoulos, W-1, W-2, the other employee and
16
17
Yes.
18
Okay.
19
20
21
MR. AGO:
22
THE COURT:
23
THE WITNESS:
24
BY MS. BACH:
25
Objection.
Overruled.
Yes.
132
recovered from Mr. Wint was taken from the Savopoulos home;
Yeah.
MR. AGO:
THE COURT:
the Mosler?
10
BY MS. BACH:
11
12
In the garage.
13
14
The house.
15
16
missing, um, would you consider that as coming from the home?
17
Yes.
18
Okay.
19
Yes.
20
21
22
23
24
25
133
Yes.
MR. AGO:
THE COURT:
10
11
14
15
BY MS. BACH:
12
13
BY MS. BACH:
Q
16
THE COURT:
17
BY MS. BACH:
18
19
whether or not the duct tape has been processed at this point
20
21
22
23
24
25
finished.
134
That's correct.
That's correct.
9
10
11
12
13
been -Q
going to show?
14
Not completely.
15
16
17
18
Yes.
19
20
21
recovered?
22
23
24
25
135
1
2
3
I guess
my question is can you sit here today and tell us every item
No.
of 2015?
10
MR. AGO:
11
THE COURT:
12
Objection.
I'm going to sustain that.
Ask your
13
BY MS. BACH:
14
15
2015?
16
Not to my knowledge.
17
18
Yes.
19
20
W-1.
21
22
is that right?
23
Yes.
24
25
136
1
2
3
4
8
9
10
It's
Do you
11
Yeah.
12
13
male, right?
14
Yes.
15
16
early 30s.
17
Complexion.
18
19
Yes.
20
W-1?
21
22
23
24
Yes.
25
And what was W -- what did W-3 say the driver was
137
1
2
3
4
wearing?
A
were located.
Yes.
10
Yes, one had not been eaten at all and the other one
11
12
13
14
15
16
Yes.
17
18
19
No.
20
21
Yes.
22
23
24
fires?
25
MR. AGO:
Objection, relevance.
138
THE COURT:
BY MS. BACH:
3
4
Sustained.
of the door.
Yes.
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
print?
14
Yeah.
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
day, and then he was off work ever since that particular day.
Q
24
That's correct.
25
139
french doors?
And can you tell us, um, was there any observed
10
11
12
Yes.
13
And --
14
MS. BACH:
15
BY MS. BACH:
16
17
Court's indulgence.
18
19
20
21
22
23
Yes.
MR. AGO:
the Court --
24
THE COURT:
Well, approach.
25
(Bench conference).
140
THE COURT:
He
MS. BACH:
print, the boot print, Your Honor, well, I think he was going
to try to argue that they were somebody else's boots that was
10
about, so the only basis that you have for concluding they
11
12
13
is another piece.
14
THE COURT:
We
15
you did ask the questions about what his basis for believing
16
17
then after he told you then you enumerated all the three or
18
four facts that you knew of that -- that formed the basis, so
19
20
21
MS. BACH:
22
MR. AGO:
23
24
25
141
p.m.
MS. BACH:
MR. AGO:
THE COURT:
Initially.
And so -No, I thought that there were three -- I
because the last one was the 9:14 telephone call I think
controller.
10
MS. BACH:
11
THE COURT:
12
-- I may not have let you go as far as you wanted but I did
13
14
15
MS. BACH:
16
17
THE COURT:
18
MS. BACH:
19
THE COURT:
excused?
22
23
Objection's overruled.
I don't have anything further, Your
Honor.
20
21
Thank you.
All right.
Counsel.
MS. BACH:
Honor.
24
THE COURT:
Very well.
25
Just leave
142
THE WITNESS:
THE COURT:
MS. BACH:
THE COURT:
MR. AGO:
THE COURT:
10
No, ma'am.
Very well, then I'll hear from the
Government.
11
MS. BACH:
12
13
14
15
probability.
16
17
in the home at the time that the four individuals were being
18
held captive.
19
in the vehicle that was stolen from the scene, and we can
20
21
22
23
24
25
has.
143
tying him to the stolen Porsche, um, and the money, we think
7
8
THE COURT:
10
MR. AGO:
Counsel.
Thank you, Your Honor.
11
12
13
14
with the car that Mr. Wint was in on the late night of the
15
21st of May.
16
The Government's
Number one is the
17
18
19
this case stems from the fact that one of the passengers in
20
the car indicated that that person, not Mr. Wint, was
21
22
23
24
Honor.
25
I would ask
Your
144
10
11
incident.
The second operative piece of evidence, Your Honor,
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
145
testimony to, um, create a link between Mr. Wint and the
home.
nothing.
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
this case.
17
18
19
20
have sufficient detail for the Court to rely on, Your Honor.
21
22
23
24
25
The
146
At trial,
10
11
12
required to establish.
13
14
15
16
17
18
that Mr. Wint was inside that home is the weak evidence, that
19
weak DNA evidence from the 13th but nothing from the 14th and
20
21
22
23
24
25
147
1
2
9
10
11
12
Counsel.
legal argument.
MS. BACH:
13
14
15
What we know is that Mr. Wint was in the home on May 17th
16
[sic] when the pizza is ordered and then on the 14th, um, we
17
would argue the evidence shows that he was there after the
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
148
money.
that evening.
company, um, shows that there was a glass break, um, at 5:56
Court that there was something amiss, and that there -- these
10
11
12
13
14
door, and for the employee to ring the bell and then leave.
15
16
17
Um, the employee saw no light on, saw just the porch
light on I believe in the -- in the house.
And so those -- that evidence along with the manner
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
He directed the
149
probabilities and the like, was that he talked with the, um,
the DNA analyst and that the pizza from -- the crust of a
with the DNA analyst, was consistent with the, um, the DNA
10
That single
11
another DNA sample was taken from the defendant and that
12
13
14
15
bedroom.
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
was seen being driven on New York Avenue after the fire
23
24
25
That Porsche
150
that mixture.
8
9
10
11
in, the evidence shows that several days after, um, or within
12
13
14
15
16
17
dollars.
18
19
20
21
22
in money orders.
23
24
25
151
10
about the funds, the cash at least that was found, um, in the
11
12
13
14
15
was that the -- the funds that were given to Mr. Savopoulos's
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
say that Mr. Wint gave him the money to get the money orders,
23
the fact is that he did tell law enforcement that the monies
24
25
152
established.
kidnaping.
date?
10
MS. BACH:
11
THE COURT:
12
MS. BACH:
13
THE COURT:
14
MS. BACH:
15
THE COURT:
Mid September.
September.
Late September?
What's today, the 20th?
Does the Court want a Friday?
Um, we could set it for the 18th --
16
17
the 25th.
18
MS. MILLER:
19
MS. BACH:
20
THE COURT:
21
Twenty-fifth.
Twenty-fifth is fine.
Twenty-fifth.
22
MS. BACH:
23
THE COURT:
Thank you.
24
MS. BACH:
The Court --
25
THE COURT:
Thank you.
153
1
2
MS. BACH:
the exhibits?
You can.
THE COURT:
MS. BACH:
THE COURT:
MS. BACH:
There's no four.
Oh, you know what -We don't need them, I just wanted to
10
THE COURT:
11
MS. BACH:
12
THE COURT:
13
14
15
p.m.)
*
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
154
2
3
10
11
of July, 2015.
I further certify that the foregoing 154 pages
12
13
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21
__________________________________
Official Court Reporter
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155