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PID Loop Tuning Explained - Part 2 - Proportional and Integral
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2omxZXGaDA0
PID Loop Tuning Explained - Part 2 - Proportional and Integral
The Controls Freak
The Controls Freak
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Uploaded on Dec 15, 2011
More Building Automation Controls info at: http://www.TheControlsFreak.com
This video is part of a series on the parts of a PID Loop and how you can adjust
them to tune the PID Loop for more effective control over various automation de
vices, such as a Humidifier Steam Valve.
In Part 2 we start seeing the automatic adjustments of the PID Loop to assist in
making the input equal the set point. These adjustments are slow and gradual an
d help prevent a back and forth or overshoot condition.
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Faithful Noel 4 months ago
thanks a lot, boss. very good explanation on PID control.
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The Controls Freak 3 years ago in reply to marty maness
In this context 'tuning' is the adjusting and setting of the proper values of a
PID loop to be the most efficient at controlling the resulting output signal an
d device.
Once you have tuned a PID loop to work properly, you should not need to change i
t unless the input signals react differently or a new result is required and the
refore you would need to 're-tune' the PID loop to better react to the new chang
es.
Let me know what you think about this first video. I am making more and would lo
ve to hear what you think. I read every one of your comments.
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Janet M 1 year ago
Thank you so much for this explanation!
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International Systems of America, LLC. Shared on Google+ 1 year ago
The Controls Freak: PID Loop Tuning Explained - Part 1 - Proportional Only http
://ow.ly/toXtO
Reply
Shai Sebton 1 year ago
Hey...Nice explanation!
What is the name of this HMI Scada??
Reply
Mike Molesky 1 year ago
Very nice video but I think you are going to confuse alot of people. The bias
is going to confuse your demonstration. Also, for many people it is easier to t
hink of proportional band as gain.
Reply
The Controls Freak 2 years ago in reply to g412bb
Well unfortunately you must not be aware that not all PID loops for all control
s systems are created equal. The mathmatical calculations behind the scenes do d
iffer and incorporate different way to accomplish the same thing.
Now worries though... This ICU in one of the world's most famous burn units work
s just fine.
Reinaldo Mendez 2 years ago
2 words... AWE SOME!! hahaha
g412bb 2 years ago
A normal PID for this application would start out at 0 and not at 50. What you
are trying to explain here is a PID with an offset of already 50%. Hope this was
not a real icu.
BMPWR 2 years ago
Nice explanation!
Understanding PID in 4 minutes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbmEUi2p-nA
Understanding PID in 4 minutes
Stephen Zahra
Stephen Zahra
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But what about that Proportional Band stuff? Well, Proportional is just the inv
erse of gain, so 100/porportional band = gain, or 100/gain = proportional band.
This means that the resulting proportional band for a gain of 1 is 100. The re
sulting proportional band for a gain of 2 is 50. This goes back to the definiti
on of proportional band as the bandwidth of error that will cause an output swin
g of 100%.
With that definition, a Porportional band of 100, and a manual output of 50%, it
looks like this: If you fall to zero MPH, your gas pedal will be 100%. If you
coast to 100 MPH, your gas pedal will be at zero. It takes a 100% bandwidth of
your range (a speedometer that is ranged from 0 to 100 MPH) in order to swing yo
ur gas pedal 100%.
Try the calculation above, but substitute the inverse calc: ((100 / PB) x Setpoi
nt - Process) + Manual Output. At zero miles per hour, we have (100 / 100) x (5
0 - 0) = 50%. Add that to the 50% manual output for 100% Same for 100 MPH. Put
it in a spreadsheet.
With a proportional band of 50 (gain of 2) we find that if we fall to 25 MPH, ou
r gas pedal will be at 100%, if we coast to 75 MPH, our gas pedal will be at 0%.
Thus, it takes a 50% bandwidth (25 MPH to 75 MPH) to swing your gas from 0 to
100%. Classic definition of proportional band.
Which one should you use? That's determined by the manufacturer of the controll
er that you are using. Classic single loop controls by ABB (used to be Taylor)
use Proportional Band. Honeywell UDC6000's are gain. And I've never seen a PLC
that isn't a gain controller when you drop a PID loop in the ladder. The only
thing to remember when you are working with a controller, is you have to find th
e range of the process input in order to find out what the PB output will be. I
once worked on a PLC with an RTD input that had a range of -465F to 1,900F, or a
total range of 2,365F. It was a gain controller, and my gain numbers were in the
thousands. (I didn't add that part of the calculation in above as it just start
s to get obtuse, but suffice it to say that you have to account for it.)
This has gotten long, but here's a couple more rules to ponder:
Integral or "Reset" (remember above?) is the only term that can actually change
the manual output.
Derivative, or Rate, is the same as proportional band, it can only add or subtra
ct.
And the rules for the terms:
Proportional Band or Gain cannot fix a problem, it can only stop it from getting
worse.
Integral or Reset will fix the problem.
Derivative or Rate will try to predict the future.
Dave
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Reply 3
abdelhamed ahmed 5 days ago
great job thanks alot
Reply
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Solution
Since the service tag states that the valve will not open to build injection pre
ssure, one should suspect that it's not operating at all. One can start at the i
nput or the output section of the amplifier to solve this problem. For this exam
ple we will make our first test across terminals 22ac and 20ac where the valve i
s connected on the lower right side of the diagram. Place a voltmeter across the
se terminals, or one can place an ammeter in series with either of the terminals
. One will need the machine operator to cycle the machine to the step where inje
ction pressure is built up and set the pressure limit to full pressure. Keep the
machine on this step while one tests for the voltage or current. The voltage sh
ould be approximately 10 volts since the control is set for full voltage. If one
is measuring current, the amount of current should be 800 mA. If the voltage is
10 volts and the valve doesn't move, the electrical system is operating correct
ly and the problem will be in the hydraulic side of the system. If the voltage i
s less than 1 volt, the problem will be in the amplifier or the signal being sen
t to the amplifier from the controller.
If the output voltage from the amplifier is too low, the next check will be at t
he supply voltage terminals (24ac and 18ac) on the bottom left side of the diagr
am. The voltage at this point should be 24 V dc with the positive voltage at ter
minal 24ac. If one doesn't have supply voltage or it's less than 24 volts, you m
ust fix the power supply.
If the supply voltage is 24 volts and the polarity is correct, one may test the
voltage as it passes through the amplifier. The first voltage test inside the am
plifier can be made across terminals 10ac and 14ac where 9 V dc is available. If
one doesn't have voltage at this point, one would change the amplifier card. If
voltage is present, proceed to the intermediate test points in the amplifier.
The next place one can test for voltage is at the signal voltage test points at
the top right side of amplifier XI. The signal should be approximately 6 V dc at
this point. If one doesn't have voltage at this point, one should check the ram
p-up switch and set it to no ramp for this test. This will ensure that the maxim
um amount of voltage is provided to the output of the amplifier. If one doesn't
have voltage even after the ramp-up switch is turned off, one has a problem in t
he amplifier and it must be changed.