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An Era of Zoe and Bios?: A conversation with Eugene Thacker, Kritikos V.3 August 2006

aninternationalandinterdisciplinaryjournalofpostmodernculturalsound,textandimage
Volume3,August2006,ISSN15525112

AnEraofZoandBios?
AconversationwithEugeneThacker

EugeneThacker
NicholasRuizIII

NicholasRuizIII:Giventheextraordinarydevelopmentofthebiotechnicalsciences,have
thehumanities,theoryandphilosophy,etc.adequatelyconsideredourburgeoning
transformationsasformsoflife,renewingoradequatelyreconsideringideassuchas
vitalismandsoon?

EugeneThacker:Wellyesandnosorry,typicalanswer,right?Yes,Ithinkthereisalot
ofworkinthehumanitiesandsocialsciencesaddressingbiotechnicaladvancesatall
levels,fromculturalrepresentationtopolicyanalysis.Butno,Idontalwaysfeelthatthe
issuesareconsideredintermsoftheirfullimplications.Oneproblemisthatthehumanities
(andperhapstoothesocialsciences?)aretoooftenpolarizedvisvisthebiosciences:
eitheryoureestablishtheimpermeableboundariesofthehumanitiesanddonotengage
atall,oryouengageandthenfollowtheadvances,alwaysonestepbehind.Oneofthe
greatestchallengesforthehumanitiesisthinkingoutsideofareactionarymodelof
theorizing,aproblemthatfacesethicalthinkinginparticular.Ifatallpossible,weshould
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avoidsimplyrespondingorreplyingtoatechnosciencethatsupposedlypreexists
theory.Really,thismeansrethinkingwhatatechnoscientificeventis,andwhatitmeans
thattheory(whateverthatis!)thenarrivesonthescenetorespondandinterpretthe
event.Isayitsachallengebecause,fromonevantagepoint,itcanlookasifthereare
entiresubsectionsofacademiainsciencestudiesandmediastudiesthatareineffect
producedbybiotechnicaladvances(genetics,biotech,nanotech),andImyselfhavefelt
thisnumeroustimes.Culturaltheoryshouldnotputitselfinthepositionofalwaysplaying
catchupwiththelatesttechnoscientificadvances,elseallbecomesasortofgameabout
whatstrendyandpitchingmemesbasedonthat.Now,therehavebeenseveralstrategies
forresistingthisnotionoftheanteriorityoftheoryBaudrillardsfatalstrategies,
postmodernpataphysics,andofcourseWarholianhyperirony(whichbecomes,well,
sincerity).ButIalsoamremindedofDeleuzesnotionoftranscendentalempiricism,which
generallypresupposesthatthereissomethingnotthoughtthatalwaysoverflowsthought,
somethingabstractthatalwaysexceedsitsconcretemanifestationsinevents,gadgets,
institutions,etc.Forthisreason,Ithinkthatsettingupanintersectionbetweentheoryand
technics(orifyoulike,lifetheoryandbiotechnics)canbeworthwhile.Forme,
biotechnicalartifactslikethegenomedatabase,thebiochip,ortheDNAcomputerarenot
onlyinterestingbecausetheyareparticularconfigurationsofknowledgeproductionand
thegenerationofanimmaterialbioeconomythatsdefinitelyimportantbutthese
bizarre,teratologicalartifactsareinterestingtomebecauseofthewaytheyconstellate
certainwaysofthinkingaboutlifeitself.Idontthinkwecanseparatethisontological
questionfromthequestionsofvalue/economisationandtechnics/normalization.Sothe
questionisnotjusthowascientifictoolorartifactissymptomaticofthecommodificationof
lifeorthenormalizationofhealth,butalsowhatweretheaffordancesinthinkingaboutlife
itselfthatenabledsuchanartifacttobedesignedandbuilt,and,oncebuilt,howdosuch
artifactsreviseSpinozasquestionconcerningethicswhatcanyoudotoabody?
Vitalismisindeedanimportantconcepthere,notonlyinitshistoricalguise,butasaway
ofthinkingthatpositsanessencetolifeirreducibletoitsmaterialinstantiation.Itseemsto
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methatbiologicalinformationoftenplaysthatrole(whichmakesthepatentingoftheDNA
oflifeformstakeonanewmeaning).

NRIII:Perhapswereachapointinlivingwhereourdestinycatchesupwithus:apoint
whereourescapevelocitydoublesuponus.Itisatthisprecisepointthatwebecome
creatorsordestroyers.Theparadoxhereisthatwecannotdoonewithouttheother.As
biomedia,whatarewecreatinganddestroying?[1]

ET:Hmm,Iseewhatyoumean,especiallyincertainresearchfieldsthatdealwith
biomedia,howtheprocessoftakingabiologicalsample(hair,skin,blood),thenconverting
itintoDNAsequencedata(thatis,lightpulses),thencollatingthatdataintoafile,then
uploadingthatfiletoagenomedatabase,thendownloadingthatfileandsynthesizingthe
DNAsequence,andthenstoringthewetsequenceinabacterialplasmidlibrary
processeslikethisinvolveacertainimplosionofcreationanddestruction.But,ontheother
handIapologize,itsbecauseImwritingonpoliticaltheologyatthemomentitalso
seemstomethatwhatwehavewithbiomediaisakindofresurrectionora
transubstantiationoflife,anessencetolifethatisindissociablefromitsformas
information.Andthereisalsoamorphologytobiomediaprocessesinfieldslikegenomics,
bioinformatics,systemsbiology,nanomedicine,andsoon.Onthesimplestlevelthat
morphologymovesbetweenontologicallydistincttypesofinformationfromwetdata
(thegeneticcodeunderstoodtobeinalivingcellinabloodsample)todrydata(that
codeasacomputerfileinadatabase)andbackagain,andinbetweentherearealso
dampormoistdata(shardsofsinglestrandedDNAattachedtoasiliconchip,nano
scaleDNAmicroprocessors).Wecancallthisamorphologicaltransubstantiationhows
thatforakeyword?Or,ifyouwantamoretangibleexample,researchintoregenerative
medicineandstemcellsisbasicallyallaboutthemorphologyofgeneticcode.
Researchersaimtofindoutwhatmakesasingleundifferentiatedcellbecomea
specializedneuron,ormusclecell,orepithelialcell(poststructuralistswouldvehadafield
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daywiththiscellulardifferentiation).Bloodintobrainintobone.Thisistheproblem
Aristotlefacedinhisbiologicaltreatiseshowtoaccountfortherelationbetweenlifeand
change,thefactthatsomethingchanges,andthatthatsomethingislivingAristotle
stoppedshortofequatinglifewithchange(motionandalteration),butperhaps
complexitytheoryhaspickedthisup.Something,someessenceorsource,somecause
mustremaincontinuoussuchthatchange(includingmostofalltheinstrumentalchangeof
techn)cantakeplace.Fromacertainperspective,allofthistakesonaveryfantastical
tone,involvingshapeshiftingandnonanthropomorphicchimeras.Perhapsthegenreof
supernaturalhorroristheplacetolookforaculturalunderstandingofsuchphenomena.

NRIII:Toseetheworldanewthatisthemostdifficult.Theorgyofrationalityisneverover
inourday.IsbiotechnologytheafterpartyofEnlightenmentrationality,thetechnical
usurpationofthebodyasamethod?

ET:Whoawell,ifbiotechistheafterpartyoftheEnlightenment,thenIdhatetoimagine
whatthehangoverthenextmorningwillbeButwhatifbiotechisnotreallyabouthyper
rationality,butreallyaboutsomethingelselikeaesthetics,forinstance?Imean,yes,on
acertainlevelbiotechisveryobviouslytheinstrumentalizationoflife,andonecaneasily
showthis,fromarchaicpracticesofanimaldomesticationandbreedingtothemosthigh
technanosciences,whatwouldchangewouldsimplybetheepistemeandits
correspondingmodeofvaluation(thustherewouldbeabiotecheracorrespondingtoeach
stageincapitalistdevelopmentanagrarianbiotech,anindustrialbiotech,apost
industrialorpostFordistbiotech,maybeevenapostcaplitalistbiotech).Andtoday,the
techophilicemphasisontheconvergencebetweenbiotechandinfotech,alongwiththe
globalizedpharmaceuticalindustrysbottomlinementality,certainlypointstothisafter
partyfeeling.Yes,butIwonder.Ithinkaboutclonedmammals(thefailuresaswellas
successes),humanearsgrownonthebackofamouse,labgrownorgansonspecially
designedpolymerscaffolds,3Ddatavizforgenomics,customtailoredbio
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pharmaceuticals,geneticdesign,plasmidlibraries,hybridomasitseemswehavent
reallyconsideredtheaestheticsofthebiotechindustry.Itisatonceabjectandsublime.So
youwanttoseebioart?,Illshowyoubioart(anditsells,too)!

NRIII:Biofuels,Biomaterials,Biohazards,BiomediaBioErawhatistrulyatstake
inthiseraofBios?IntheEraofaglobalgenome,doesglobalismsplanetary
computerizationnowincludebareandpoliticallife?[2]HasthecaseforDeific
immortalityandsalvation,andhencesocioethicalfutures,givenourreligioethical
pasts,allbeentransferredtotherealmofthebiotechnical?Arewesimplyspeaking
inDarwinianterms,ofperhaps,whatwasalreadyanaturalBiopolityallalong,and
nowsimplyhyperrealized?BioCapitalclones,tradablewithinglobalbiopolity?

ET:Yourerightinpointingtotheprevalenceofbiowordsoutthere,somuchso
thatitseemsthatbioisthenewpostorcyberprefix(takeaterm,addabio
prefixtoit,andsaythatitfundamentallychallengessomethingfundamentalsorry,
thatsmycynicismtalking).Inaddition,whatpeopleusuallymeanbyaddingbiois
reallywhatAristotlemeansbyzo(bare,animallife).Soweshouldreallybetalking
notaboutbiopoliticsbutzoopoliticsButthereisacertaintonalitytothebio,andI
thinkyouhitonitintermsofthepotentiallytransformativeorredemptivepromises
ofnewtechnologies.Thegreatestachievementofbiotechnicswouldnotbethe
transformationofalllifeintomachines,buttheresurrectionoflifethatisperfected
biology,morebiologicalthanthebiologicalitself,theredemptionofbiology.We
havetoask,whatisbroughttotheforegroundwhenwethinkaboutsomething
beingbio,aswhenweheartalkofbiohazards,biofuels,biomaterials,
biopharmaceuticals,andbiodefense?Onethingisthatagiven,relatively
unquestionednotionoflifeitselfisregardedasbeingincorporatedintothe
technologicaldomain,eitherforeconomicprofit,forthedemandsofsecurity,orthe
renormalizationofhealthandillnessthelastbastionofnaturenowlaidbareby
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evernewtechnologies.Iwouldquestionthisassumption.Letscreateagenetic
cloneofAgambenandStiegler:partofthetaskofthebioistomanagetheback
andforthpassagesbetweenalifeitselfandthecapacitytocoextensivelyproduce
thatlifeitselfassuch.Oncesomethingisreferredtoasbeingbiowhateverwe
cancallthisawhateverlifeadualandcontradictorydemandismadeofit:thatit
beatonceanessenceoflifeitselfexteriortoallpreexistingcategoriesofthought
(lifeasthehorizonofthought),and,atthesametime,thatthislifeexteriorto
thoughtexistsinadirectrelationtoourabilitytoknowitassuchandtopotentially
actuponandthroughit.Ifwewanttospeakaboutthepoliticsofvitalism,thiswould
perhapsbetheplaceanessenceisposited(ageneticcode)attheverysame
timethatsuchanessenceisdeessentializedthroughanarrayoftechniques,acts,
andpractices(sequencing,encoding,decoding,synthesizing,engineering,etc.).

NRIII:UnderthemetaphysicsofCapital,whereeventhemarketexchangesare
themselvesexchangeableforCapitalthinkoftheNewYorkStockExchanges
recentpublicoffering(tickersymbolNYX)NYXisnowtradableonitselfwhat
beautifuloversightwithintheselfregulatinggeniusoflivingCapital!what
protectionfromcommoditizationcanabareorpoliticallifebeafforded?

ET:Iwonderifbarelifeiseverreallyoutsideofsystemsofvalueproductionand
exchange?Thisisatoughone.Obviouslytherearemanythingsthatneedtobe
donetoraisecriticismsandspurinterventionsintothepervasivetransformationof
lifeformsintotradablecommodities.Andalotofthingsarebeingdone,fromactivist
campaignsagainstbioprospectingintheThirdWorldtoNGOsthatlobbyagainst
unfairtraderegulationsinagriculturalandanimalbiotech.SoIthinkitsimportantto
seethispartoftheresistancetobioexchangeaspartofalargerantiglobalization
tendency(certainlynotwithoutitsproblems,butthereyouare).Butperhapsthe
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sortofmetacapitalweseewithNYXisitselfasymptomofaworldviewinwhich
everythingisexchangeableinpartbecauseeverythingisconnected.Ivealways
thoughtitwouldbeinterestingtostudythedifferent,concurrentlayersofglobal
bioexchangeflowsoffinancecapitallinkedtopatentsorbiotechstartups
alongsidethegloballocalcirculationsofemerginginfectiousdiseases(manyof
whichmutatethroughhorizontalgenetransfer),andthosealongsidethe24/7public
healthsurveillancesystemsmanagedbytheWHOandtheCDC.Idontknow,but
maybealongsidethealreadyexistingactivitieswealsoneedtoseriouslyinquire
intotheuncanny,anonymous,andnonhumanaspectsofwhatbioexchangereally
is.Itslikesayingtheeconomywithouteconomics,orexchangewithoutvalueAt
somelevelthisgetsusintoBataillesterritory,inwhichthehumanitselfis
expended

NRIII:Withregardtogeneticmaterialismandessentialism,andhumanfate,Anne
Scottreferstotheoperationalizationofbarelifeasacapitalizedgenomics[3]
whereinbarelifeisindeed,Iwouldsay,becomingacurrencyofthegeneticCode,
wheretheCodeitselfbecomespatentlytradableasasocialsignifier,aformof
Capital.TherelationshipbetweenCapitalandtheCodesoonbecomes
undecideable,no?Howmightthisaffectourmetaphysicallives?

ET:Yes,Iwouldagree,andthisrelationbetweencapitalandcodepointstoyour
ownworksomaybeyoushouldreplytothisaswell!Isallcapitalcode,orisall
codecapital?OntheonehandwecanImbeinghistoricallysloppyherelookat
theemergenceofpoliticaleconomyinthe18thcenturyanditsattendantfields
(demographics,statistics,populationstudies)andsaythatthedevelopmentof
modernformsofcapitalizationemergesoutofanearlyinformaticsofthe
population(thiswouldbealooseriffonFoucault).Ontheotherhandwecanlookat
thetendenciestowardspostFordist,immateriallaborandsuggestthatonlywith
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suchformsofcapitalcansomethinglikethepatentingofgeneticcodestakeplace.
SoImallwiththis.But,speakingmoretothemetaphysicsthatyoumention,Ifeel
thatwecanplacetoomuchcausalemphasisoncapitalandcodedoingthisor
doingthat.So,ifthereisindeedanundecidabilitybetweenthem,tomethisraises
anotherissue:therelationbetweenlifeandnumber.Again,wearebackto
vitalismandthephilosophyofbiology.Canlifebereducibletonumber?Aristotle
wouldprobablysayno,DescartesHarveyHobbesyes,HegelRousseauno,
DarwinGaltonyes,Bergsonno,Whiteheadmaybe,Heideggerwhatever,andso
on.Perhapsamoreinteresting,andmorecontemporaryapproachwouldbetolook
atearlygeneticistslikeJacob,Monod,Crick,andsoon,eachofwhomisdoingkey
researchinmoleculargenetics,butalsowritingpopulararticlesforanonspecialist
audiencetalkingaboutthewhatislife?question.ItsinterestingMonodis
resolutelyacybernetician,andthewholethingboilsdowntoasetofalgorithms
(thoughalgorithmsarecertainlynotwithouttheirownambiguities),whileJacobis
muchmoreaphilosopher,anditsimportanttohimtogobacktoAristotleandhis
questionconcerningpsycheorlifeformingspirit.Oursciencefictionfilms
dramatizethislifenumberquestionmutationsarereducibletoDNAandyetwhat
ishuman(oreven,thehumanspirit)cannotbefoundanywhereinDNA.Sothis
relationbetweenlifeandnumberisliketherelationImentionedbeforebetween
lifeandthought.If,asCanguilhemsuggests,lifeissimplythehorizonofour
abilitytothinkaboutlife,thenperhapsinbiotechnicslifeisthatwhichcalculates
andwhich,becauseofthis,remainsexternaltocalculation

NRIII:Intheend,perhapswelearnthatatthecoreofhumanity,toborrowfrom
iek,thereissomethingratherinhumaninfact,suchagapisthusassertedas
inherenttohumanityitself,asthegapbetweenhumanityanditsowninhuman
excess.[4]Wemightsaythatwewalktheline.

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An Era of Zoe and Bios?: A conversation with Eugene Thacker, Kritikos V.3 August 2006

aninternationalandinterdisciplinaryjournalofpostmodernculturalsound,textandimage
Volume3,August2006,ISSN15525112

Notes

[1]
SeeEugeneThacker,Biomedia,MinneapolisUniversityofMinnesotaPress(2004)
[2]
EugeneThacker,TheGlobalGenome:Biotechnology,PoliticsandCulture,Cambridge,MITPress(2005),p306
[3]
AnneScott,Likeeditingbitsofourselves:geneticisationandhumanfateNewGeneticsandSociety,V.25,No.1,April2006
[4]
Slavojiek,TheParallaxView,Cambridge,MITPress(2006),p5

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