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Operating the FT-817 from Lithium-Ion (Li-Ion)

batteries
Using Lithium-Ion (Li-Ion)
(and other) Batteries with
the FT-817:
Important note: Lithium-Ion
(Li-Ion,) NiCd, and NiMH cells and
battery packs are potentially
dangerous! Very specific precautions
must be taken to assure cell longevity
as well as safety of personnel and
equipment! Do not use a Li-Ion cell
or battery pack in any way other than
A Front-panel view of my FT-817.
specifically stated by the
manufacturer without first fully understanding the factors involved in their usage: There is a good
reason why you can't just go out and buy individual Lithium-Ion cells at your local electronics store.
What follows are general guidelines and it is up to the user to do his/her own research to determine
how best to (safely) use the technology. (This warning can also be applied to Lead-Acid, Alkaline, and
other cell types as well.) You have been warned!

For information about operating the FT-817 with other types of cells, go here.
One of the more recent innovations in battery technology is the development of the Lithium-Ion cell.
Unlike the previous (well-known) lithium cells (such as the coin cells used in watches, computer battery
backup, etc.) it contains no actual metallic lithium - an element that is highly reactive - but rather a
Lithium-Cobalt Oxide is typically used - a material that poses less of a hazard. The major advantage of
Lithium-Ion cells is that they have a good power-to-weight ratio (i.e. "more watts per pound") as
compared to almost any other common rechargeable battery technology. Note that even though
Lithium-Ion cells are light, they aren't necessarily smaller that other types. These desirable properties
come at a price: Lithium-Ion cells are a real pain to work with. They do not take kindly to abuse - and
any abuse that you insist on meting out will likely result in permanent damage - to the cell - and possibly
the user! (But more on this later...)
First off, how many cells are required to run the FT-817? The nominal voltage for each cell is 3.6 volts
or so, so it would seem that either 3 cells (10.8 volts) or 4 cells (14.4 volts) would be ideal. The reality is
quite different, however.
More conventional rechargeable batteries (such as NiCd and NiMH) have the rather unique property (in
the battery world) that they maintain a fairly constant voltage over their discharge cycle - around 1.2 volts
- although they start out in the vicinity of 1.5 volts when "fresh out of the charger" and very quickly settle
down to the lower voltage. They maintain their voltage fairly well (within a few tenths of a volt,
depending on load and battery condition) until their charge is nearly depleted - and then the voltage
suddenly nosedives.
Differences in Li-Ion cells

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This property makes them fairly easy to use. It would be

safe to use, say, 10 NiCd or NiMH cells to operate the
FT-817: When freshly charged, this battery would put out
16 volts (the maximum upper voltage for the FT-817) or
less, and quickly settle down to 11-12 volts - a fairly
"nice" voltage.
Li-Ion cells are different animals, however. Let's relate
them to more familiar technology - the Alkaline cell first. We think of Alkaline cells as having 1.5 volts per
cell, but the reality is that this "nominal" voltage only
occurs when the cell is brand new and unloaded - and this
voltage drops gradually as the cell is depleted. In this
manner, Li-Ion batteries behave more like Alkaline cells
than NiCd or NiMH - which tend to hold a constant 1.2
volts per cell.

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When this page was first assembled in 2001

the majority of the Li-Ion cells available
(especially on the surplus/used market) used a
coke anode. Since that time, the newer
Graphite anode cells have become dominant.
The three most important properties of the
newer cells are:

- Higher capacity. A 18650-type cells

originally had a capacity in the 1.3-1.5 aH
range while the newest 18650 types hover
around the 3 aH range. There are some
sellers that advertize 4 aH capacity cells, but
load/capacity testing by those in various
"Flashlight" forums indicate that these
ratings are usually "optimistic".
- Higher "discharge" voltages. The older
When a Li-Ion cell is fully charged, its voltage is typically
(coke anode) cells were discharged when their
4.20 volts (for some battery chemistries it may slightly
voltage got down to 2.5 volts or so, while the
higher or lower - but we'll talk about the 4.2 volt variety
newest cells are considered discharged at
here...) and during the discharge cycle this voltage drops
about 3.0 volts.
down until it gets to 3.0 (or 2.5) volts per cell (see
- Flatter discharge curves. Newer graphic
sidebar for an explanation of the differences.) Like all
anode cells stay at higher voltages for a longer
cell technologies (be they Alkaline, NiCd or NiMH) the
time, thus allowing some devices - such as the
internal resistance also increases somewhat as the battery
FT-817 in a 3-cell arrangement - to utilize
is discharged (and as it ages.)
more of the cells' charge.
Let's take this and apply it to our "3 Cell" Li-Ion battery
pack. When fully charged, it will put out 12.6 volts - a
nice voltage to operate the radio. Using coke-anode cells,
when it is nearly discharged, this voltage drops to about
7.5 volts - and that is right at the bottom end of where the
FT-817 will function and doesn't even take into account
the internal resistance of the cells or wiring losses - both
of which are factors that reduce the voltage when current
is pulled from the cells. This means that we will have
"wasted" some of our cell capacity due to our inability to
operate when the voltage is low. (Note: Using more
modern Graphite-anode cells, this isn't necessarily true see the sidebar.)

What does this mean with respect to the '817,

then? Take our "3 cell Li-Ion pack" example:
- With the older coke anode cells, the voltage
would drop below 8 volts (the lowest voltage
at which the radio is guaranteed to operate
"normally") with a significant amount of
energy still left in the cells.
- With graphite anode cells, the cells are
"dead" at 3 volts, meaning that the radio still
"sees" 9 volts - a voltage at which the radio is
perfectly happy.

What about our "4 Cell" Li-Ion battery pack? At a cutoff A Word of warning: If you chose to
voltage of 2.5 volts per cell, this would mean that the '817 assemble a 3-cell Li-Ion pack for your '817
gets 10 volts - plenty of margin there. What about the
(heeding all other warnings, of course) you
"full charge" voltage? With 4 cells at 4.2 volts, this would must determine if your cells are coke or
apply 16.8 volts to the radio - nearly a volt beyond the
graphite types anddesign your pack to
radio's rating - something that is a definite no-no.
disconnect the cells appropriately - something
done with a "protection circuit", a device
The upshot of all of this? You may not be able to use a easily found at many of the same places that
Li-Ion battery to directly power the FT-817 and get both sell the LiIon cells in the first place!
full battery life and stay within the radio's voltage
ratings. With 3 cells (using coke anodes) the radio will shut down before the battery is fully discharged,

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and with 4 cells, the full-charge voltage exceed the rating of the radio.
There are several options to get around this:
Use a 3 cell (coke anode) battery pack and just live with diminished capacity. This could amount to
a loss of up to as much as 25% in battery capacity, as the radio will shut down before the battery is
fully discharged. (This doesn't guarantee that you won't "hurt" the cell that runs down first and
goes to a battery-damaging low voltage!)
Use a 4 cell battery pack and reduce the voltage using a low-dropout regulator when the battery is
near full charge (i.e. above 16.0 volts.) Such a low-dropout regulator could be constructed using
conventional bipolar transistors or (better yet) power MOSFETs. (Perhaps I'll build one and put the
design here... some day...)
In the case of the 4 cell pack, put enough diodes in series with the battery pack to prevent over 16
volts from reaching the radio when the battery pack is fully charged and the radio is off. Note that
this drop represents extra power loss.
Use a switching regulator that can operate over the entire voltage range and output the radio at the
voltage at which it is most efficient - Such a regulator is described on the Optimizing the Power
Consumption of the FT-817 when using Battery Power page.
Charge the 4-cell pack to only 4.0 volts/cell (e.g. 16.0 volts for the entire pack.) As noted in the
section near the bottom of the page, this will likely lead to longer battery longevity, anyway.
The most energy-efficient option is the last one and the reasons for this are described on the linked page.

Keeping Li-Ion Batteries happy:

Li-Ion batteries are very finicky animals. They are really quite fragile and need to be treated "nicely" in
order to assure long life as well as safety. Here are a few of their finicky properties - some of which may
vary slightly with differing Li-Ion cell types and chemistries:
Lithium-Ion cells are fragile!
When charging, the maximum voltage must be 4.2
volts per cell, +- 0.05 volts or so. (This may be
different for other cell chemistries, but we're talking
about the 4.2 volt variety here.) If you don't know
exactly which chemistry your cells use, don't go
above 4.2 volts.
No cell should be discharged to lower than 2.0-2.5
volts, with 2.5-3.0 volts being typical (see sidebar.)
If the voltage gets down to just 1 volt per cell, the
cell will be permanently damaged! (This
obviously rules out trying to charge the cell
backwards...) In general older coke-anode cells
have a low-voltage limit of 2.5-2.7 volts while the
newer graphite-anode cells have a low-voltage limit
of 2.7-3.0 volts. Check with the manufacturer for
specific information on the cells that you are
using! When in doubt, use the higher voltages!
When charging a deeply discharged cell (i.e. a cell
with a voltage lower than about 2.5 volts) it must be
trickle-charged for a period of time before the
normal "high-current" charge cycle begins to avoid
permanent cell damage. Typically, this trickle

Li-Ion cells are actually a pain to work with:

They don't like to be over-charged (they can
explode!) or discharged too far (they tend to
be damaged.)
For this reason Li-Ion cells are literally
surrounded with circuits to protect them from
overcharging, "over discharge", and
overcurrent. This circuitry may be built into
the pack itself, or it may be in the appliance
that uses the cell/battery.
Here some of the minimum requirements for
the circuitry in a "safe" Li-Ion pack:
Every cell is individually monitored to
detect an overvoltage or undervoltage
condition. If either condition is
detected, the charging current or load
is disconnected as appropriate.
Short circuit protection must be
employed. This can be as simple as a

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charge is at less than 0.1C and must continue until

fuse, or as complicated as a current
cell gets above 3 volts. (Refer to the datasheet for
monitor.
the cells you are using for specific information.)
Always always do your best in finding information Failure to very carefully monitor the
on the specific cells that you are using from the
voltage/current conditions can result in a
manufacturer. To reiterate, such important
Li-Ion cell/battery that has poor lifetime.
information includes the cell capacity, "full charge" Worse yet, the cells can fail catastrophically
voltage, discharge voltage, the "trickle charge"
if badly abused - possibly resulting in
voltage (see the paragraph above) and the "you'd- equipment damage or even personal injury!
better-throw-these-away-because-you-let-theirIn short, you cannot simply just buy some
voltage-get-too-low" voltage.
When the charging voltage gets near 4.2 volts per Li-Ion cells and use them to replace
cell - or to just 4.0 volts/cell (see near the bottom of Alkaline, NiCd, or NiMH cells and expect
them to work safely, efficiently or have a
the page for an explanation as to why you might
want to do that) the charging current (in a constant- reasonable operational life! Additional
voltage, current-limited charger) will start to drop. protection circuitry is required to assure
overall safety!
When the charging current drops fairly low, a 1
hour timer is typically started, cutting off charging
current after that timer runs out. This means that it is a no-no to continuously trickle-charge a
Lithium Ion cell!
DO NOT even think about using Li-Ion cells unless you have a circuit that will prevent excessive
discharge of the cells!
DO NOT even think about charging Li-Ion cells without (at least) a carefully regulated supply set
to the appropriate voltage. (This assumes that you don't have the original charger, of course...)
Limit discharge current to 3C. "C" is the battery capacity in amp hours. For example one would
limit discharge current of a 1 amp/hour cell to 3 amps. Again, refer to the cell manufacturer, where
possible, for specific information. In general, the lower discharge current and lower temperature,
the longer the cells will last.
Charge current should be in the range of 0.2C to no more than 1 C - after any required "trickle
charging" (see above.) In the above 1 amp/hour example, this would be a range of 200 mA to 1
amps. In reality, is is permissible to charge at lower than the 0.2C range, but all other precautions
must be taken.
The cell temperature must never exceed 60 degrees C (about 140 degrees F.) Charging should
occur only in the 0 to 45 C range (32-113 F) and discharge should occur in the -20 to 60 C range (-4
to 140 F) for best battery life.
When storing the cell for extended periods, it should be mostly discharged.
Like any cell/battery, it should never be burned or disassembled.
Do not taunt Li-Ion cells.

Actually using Li-Ion cells with the FT-817:

Having said all of this, you might ask yourself "Who would want to use Li-Ion cells at all?"
Well, I do! Why? They are light - having an excellent power/weight ratio.
How do you use these cells, then? There are number of chipsets that can be used to monitor/protect a
Li-Ion battery pack (see sidebar.) Also, knowing how to properly treat a Li-Ion pack can go a long way
toward aiding one in designing their own protection/interface circuitry using off-the-shelf components. If
you are able to build such a circuit, you probably don't need my help in designing the circuit.
There is also another way - Use an existing Li-Ion battery pack: That is what I did.
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Note: Disassembling any battery pack can be hazardous and I cannot recommend that you do so. If you
insist on doing so despite my warning, you assume all risks in doing so. You must take care to avoid
shorting, puncturing, or otherwise damaging any cell(s) or associated circuitry in the pack, nor should
any safety device be defeated.
Several years ago (at the 1999 Dayton Hamvention, to be precise) I picked up three Li-Ion battery packs
(HP model F1193A) that were intended to power a laptop computer. These are rated at 14.4 volts with a
capacity of 2.5 amp/hours. More recently, I was given a defective (but fairly new) battery pack (the
circuit board was blown up, but the cells were just fine) that happened to use the same type of cells (Sony
US18650.) Each pack is arranged in a 2 x 4 array (4 pairs of cells in series.)
A few chips you might be able to use
with Li-Ion cells

These cells have a nominal rating of 1.5 amp hours each

If you insist on building your own Li-Ion (depending on specific vintage, model, and application) and
they are of the "Hard Carbon" anode type. The three packs
pack from scratch, you should
from Dayton contained a small circuit board which contains the
familiarize yourself with all of the
possible hazards associated with doing necessary monitoring circuitry to prevent "over-discharge" (i.e.
a MOSFET switch disconnects the pack when any of its cells'
so.
voltage gets too low) as well as overcharge protection (a
You'll also need to properly protect the MOSFET disconnects the charge current, too...) as well as
cells from over and under charge as well overcurrent protection (a resettable circuit using a MOSFET to
as overload conditions. If you are clever interrupt current flow in case of overload. In addition to all of
this, the board also contains a BQ2050 battery monitor chip - a
with circuit design, you can come up
circuit that is capable of keeping track of the amount of current
with your own circuits to do this job.
There are, however, a few ICs out there put into and pulled out of the battery, allowing the current state
of charge to be ascertained (I haven't gotten around to
that are designed to help you do this:
interfacing with this chip yet...)
Maxim Semiconductor has a few ICs
In looking at the circuit board, I did enough reversethat are designed for cell and battery
engineering to determine that it was perfectly capable of
management of NiCd, NiMH and
handling two of these packs in parallel and the 2 amp draw of
Li-Ion. A handy table showing the
family of such chips may be found here. the FT-817 was also within the capacity of this circuit. This
A few of the chips of most interest in the allowed me to assemble two battery packs, each using a 4 x 4
context of this article are the MAX1665 array of cells - resulting in a battery pack with over 5
and MAX1666. It is worth noting that amp/hours of capacity.
Maxim has provisions that permit
I repackaged the cells and the circuit board in a homebrew
individuals to buy small quantities of
enclosure constructed of acrylic plastic. In addition to the
their ICs - go here.
built-in overcurrent protection (on the circuit boards) each pack
Also, there is the UCC3911 series made has an inline fuse. Also added is a small pushbutton switch
by Texas Instruments (www.ti.com) that used to reset the overcurrent protection. Normally, this sort of
reset is accomplished by applying charge to the battery. If you
can disconnect the cell(s) to protect
them. There are several chips made, so are out in the middle of nowhere, you can't always obtain a
be sure that the correct one is chosen for charging source. How, you might ask, does the overcurrent get
triggered? Well, the switching regulator has several thousand
the cell-types that you intend to use.
uF of input capacitance - and when it is connected this
There are also "gas gauge" chips
available from TI - the "BQ2000" series capacitance can appear as a brief short circuit. When this
happens, the overcurrent protection circuit does its job.
(such as the BQ2050) can help you
monitor how much charge is going in to
When using one of these Li-Ion packs with the FT-817, I use it
and out of the cell.
with the Synchronous Buck-type switching regulator, described
Note: The above is not intended to be a on the Optimizing Power Consumption of the FT-817 when

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recommendation or endorsement of a
particular manufacturer or IC, but
rather to help steer someone toward the
right place. If you find some useful,
information please let me know.

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using battery power page. Why? When fully charged, this

pack puts out at least 16.8 volts (over the voltage rating of the
FT-817.) Also, the switching regulator allow more efficient use
of the battery's power capacity as described in the
aforementioned page.

How do I charge these cells? Actually, the built-in circuitry makes it quite easy: I have a power supply
set to precisely 16.80 volts and the circuitry prevents overcharge. Ultimately, I plan to build a "smart"
charger (so I don't monopolize my workbench power supply when charging these things) but in the
meantime, this method works.

You might also wondering if the cells above are rated at 1.5 amp
hours, and there were two in parallel in the original packs, then
why was the original pack capacity 2.5 amp/hours instead of 3
amp/hours? My guess is that it has to do with the property of
any battery pack: The higher the load, the lower the capacity. In
the case of, say, a 100 amp/hour battery, you can probably draw
1 amp for 100 hours, but you can't pull 100 amps for 1 hour.
Why? The chemistry is less efficient at this higher current end
of the world. The same goes for the Li-Ion packs: The laptop Exterior view of the two 6 amp/hour 14.4
for which they were originally intended probably pulled several volt Li-Ion packs. As-packaged, these
amps - and the amp/hour ratings of the cells is based on a much packs weigh 32 oz (approx. 900 grams)
smaller load - approximately 0.2C. Since the FT-817 generally
each
pulls about 300 mA on receive, I would guess that the actual
Click on the picture for a larger
capacity of the packs will be closer to 6 amp/hours.
version.
How long will one of these packs power the FT-817? If the '817 is just sitting there on receive in a
squelched state, using the switching supply, one could reasonably expect about 26 hours of operation.
Without the switching regulator, this would drop to 20 hours or so.
Notice: The information contained on this and related pages is believed to be accurate, but no guarantees
are expressed or implied. The information on this and related pages should be considered to be "as-is"
and the user is completely responsible for the way this information is used. If you have questions,
additional information, or you find information that you believe to be incorrect, please report it via email.

Follow-up - and some practical advice on using/storing batteries and packs:

As you might expect, the cells in the battery packs depicted above eventually "died" of old age as LiIon
packs do: At best, one can typically expect to get just 5-7 years after the date of manufacture out of a set
of normal LiIon (or Li-Poly) cells under normal conditions: That's just the way that they are!
Since the original writing of this web page back in 2002 or so I have learned more about how to "care"
about LiIon cells of various types. While there is nothing wrong with the original advice, above, there are
a few things that one can do to prolong the life of LiIon packs:
Do not "fully" charge them. While the recommended maximum voltage is 4.2 volts per cell for
most LiIon cells of the type noted above, it turns out that they will last longer and survive more
charge/discharge cycles if you charge them to a somewhat lower voltage. Because the cells'
decomposition rate increases dramatically with cell temperature and/or voltage, one thing that may
be done to increase longevity is to reduce their charge voltage slightly at the expense of some
ultimate amp/hour capacity. Recommendations seem to vary, but I have seen 3.9-4.0 volts/cell
mentioned in various pieces of literature (I'm sure that your Google works as well as mine to find

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it!) While one will get, perhaps, 15-20% less capacity when charge to that lower voltage, the cell
will degrade less quickly and the literature indicates that the "crossover" point at which you will be
ahead of the game is between 1-2 years where the lesser-charged cells are in better condition than
the higher-voltage charged cells. Whether or not this turns out to be true, if you construct a 4-cell
LiIon pack like above, if you charge it to just 16.0 volts (4.0 volts/cell) then you will not have to
worry about exposing your radio to excess voltage! The obvious problem is that unless you
construct your own charger or modify one, you will have difficulty acheiving this lower cell
voltage. (Note: Some chargers will automatically drop the voltage if the battery pack is left on the
charger for long term.)
Store the cells at a less than fully-charged state. Various manufacturers suggest that it is best to
store LiIon cells if various types at, perhaps, 30-60% of full charge. The idea is that a fully-charge
cell will chemically degrade more quickly than one that is only partically charged. The important
caveat to this is that you DO NOT let the cell's voltage get TOO LOW - that is, below 2.5-3.0
volts/cell, EVER! This can happen due to self-discharge of the cell and/or from the small amount
of current from the "protection" circuit attached to it. As noted above, if the cell voltage gets too
low, it may be permanently damaged!
It is better to avoid deep discharge and frequently recharge the cell. This may contradict some
of the above - and it does, to an extent. With most battery technologies disproportionally more
"life" is taken out of a cell if it is deeply discharged than if it is only partially discharged. For
example, if a given cell is discharged by 80% 500 times, it will likely be degraded more than the
same type of cell that is discharged by 40% 1000 times. An example of this in the real world is
with electric cars: When their batteries are "dead", they still have a very significant charge on
them, but it is only by limiting the overall depth of charge that maximum reliability and lifetime can
be obtained. If you are not careful, this can contradict the previous statement about storing the cells
at a "less than fully-charged state" if you charge them again immediately after using them, but this
can be mitigated by planning ahead.

As you read the above, something may have occurred to you along the lines of "The entire reason that I
have these batteries is for emergency/backup/portable use, so how do I justify keeping them around if
they aren't fully-charged?"
That is a very good question, and if you find that this applies to you, the most pertinent advice is probably
the first point, above, about not "fully" charging them. If your needs are such that you must keep your
LiIon battery packs charged at all times, your best options are:
Keep them connected to the charger knowing that at a full 4.2 volts, their lifetime will likely be
reduced by 1/3-1/2 due to the constant exposure of the high voltage.
Top them off occasionally to the "normal" voltage (e.g. 4.2 volts/cell). The reduced exposure of the
high voltage will likely reduce their rate of degradation.
Top them off occasionally to the "lower" voltage (e.g. 3.9-4.0 volts/cell).
Remember: With casual use it can be difficult to tell how badly a cell has degraded. Having used a
variety of LiIon (and other types of) cells for several decades now and having the equipment on-hand to
analyze the actual capacity of those cells I have observed that it is not immediately obvious that a NiCd,
NiMH or LiIon battery pack for a radio such as a Handie Talkie - or even a lead-acid battery - has
degraded until it gets down to 15-25% of its original amp-hour capacity. Even at such diminished
capacity it will "seem" to work OK - even at high transmit power - but it is not until it is used "heavily"
for several hours or days that it suddenly becomes obvious that it is a shadow of its former self - and then
it's too late!

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For additional information about charging Lithium-Ion cells, visit these pages:
Battery University - Charging Lithium Ion Batteries
Proper Care Extends Li-Ion Battery Life

For information about operating the FT-817 with other types of cells, go here.
Another "battery" page:

The NiCd/NiMH page - This page describes in some detail the care and feeding of NiCd and
NiMH cells and batteries. This explains how to keep NiCd cells going, and what that "memory" affect
really is! (Hint: It's not the "memory" effect at all!) This page also has Links to manufacturers'
information about various types of cells (NiCd, NiMH, Li-Ion, Alkaline, etc.)

Go to The KA7OEI FT-817 "Front Page" - This is, well, the "front" page of the '817
pages here...
Any comments or questions? Send an email!
This page maintained by Clint Turner, KA7OEI and was last updated on 20150415. (Copyright 2001-2015 by Clint Turner)

Since 12/2010:

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