MIMAMSA HERMENEUTICS, VEDIC METHODS OF ANALYSIS AND

INTERPRETATION OF SCRIPTURE
MIMAMSA OR HERMENEUTICS
Two of the six dharsanas or six systems of Vedic philosophy are called Mimamsa, these
are the Purva-mimamsa and Uttara-mimamsa.
Means the whole system is called mimamsa. Means you have your philosophy, you
have the Vedas, so how you pursue that Veda and how you interpret the verse. We will
interpret everything in connection to Krsna and that the soul is servant of Krsna. The
material energy is real and it is one of Krsnas energies but inferior. The method of
establishing ourself in that relationship with God is through devotional service. And the
ultimate goal is love for Krsna in which the lover and beloved are eternally identifiable
entities. So we will take everything and see it in that way.
Someone with a different mimamsa may have a different perspective. So then theyll
interpret everything in that way. But what he is pointing out here is in the overall
concept of mimamsa meaning the hermeneutics that two of the schools they use the term
mimamsa in the name of their mimamsa, others dont. Patanjalis astanga-yoga he doesnt
use the term mimamsa. It is understood it is a mimamsa but he doesnt call it that.
Purva means first and Uttara means latter. Why are these Mimamsa philosophies,
referred to as first and latter? This is because each system emphasizes a different section of
the Vedas. Without going into details, the Purva-Mimamsakas emphasize the performance of
ritualistic yajnas and sacrifices for fruitive results as described in the Veda-samhita, or the
karma-kanda section of the Vedas. The Uttara-Mimamsa on the other hand, emphasises
renunciation from fruitive activities and concentration on Brahman as described in the
Upanisadas or the Jnana-kanda section of the Vedas. As the Veda-samihitas are placed first
and the Upanisadas later, these two philosophical systems mimamsas are known as first
and latter mimamsa or purva and uttara mimamsa. The purva or Karma-mimamsakas are
headed by the risi Jaimini and the uttara mimamsakas, also called Vedantins are headed by
Vyasadeva the author of the Vedanta-sutas also called Vedanta darsana and Uttara
Mimamsa.
You have the Vedas, the Vedas have four parts. Means each of the Vedas has four
parts: The Samhita, the brahmanas that are based on the Samhita how to use the Vedic
mantra in rituals for daily life and special karma-kanda yajnas. In other words, how to
live comfortably now and in the future in the material world. Thats the brahmanas.
Aranyakas are the meta-physics of those mantras and rituals, and then the Upanisads are
the philosophy.
Each one of them has a lifestyle. Learning the Veda the brahmacari he lives his
lifestyle to master the Veda. Because he doesnt have any distraction because he only has
to study. As soon as he gets into family life he is distracted. Any of the boys who are
absorbed in the house they dont study well. They more they are able to focus on the
school the better they study. So then they can start to focus because otherwise now they
cant study at the school because they are thinking of the home and then they are at
home they are thinking of something else because if you go to their home when it is a day

that they are at home they are not at home. What happens it one would think they have
more freedom they are getting more experience, actually they are getting less experience
because when they are at the school they are not getting much and when they are at
home they are not getting much. So those who are at the school those who are focused
then they get something out of that then when they do go home and they take up family
life they will be able to focus there.
So it is a lifestyle meant to develop that focus and attention so that one will be
successful. Because everything is based on the Veda. So the Veda is the foundation. So
the Veda is the foundation then means every other aspect you want to do. Whether you
want to use it as rituals, if you want to understand the meta-physics, you want to
understand the philosophy, you can do that because you have the Veda.
Then for practicing the brahmanas that is for the grhasthas because then it deals in
all aspects of their grhastha life, all the samskaras, all other kinds of yajnas and
performances. So then they are able to use the Veda in that way. And then in this way
engage all their needs in the Lords service because still it is Veda, it is still authority.
Then the vanaprasthas they get into the meta-physics because they dont necessarily
get into the physical application of the mantras. So they contemplate the bridging
between the material and the spiritual. What is behind it? What is the subtle
connections? And you start to see everything is connected, everything has the common
background the common platform. So from that then you can put in the philosophy. So
then they live away from it, not too far away. The vanaprastha doesnt go and live in the
forest, he lives on the edge of town or on the edge of the forest, so he is available. But he
can see, if you are dealing with the meta-physics you have to be able to see its physical
application and its philosophical. So if you are on the edge of the forest, then there is
forest and there also live the sages, so you are seeing the Upanisadic aspect and you can
also see in the village the Brahmana-aspect but your focus is on the Aranyaka-aspect.
Then the Upanisads and there is that lifestyle of detachment from all these other
activities and you are just focused on Brahman.
Because this is the natural order and everyone accepts this so therefore Purvamimamsa means the Veda and the Brahmanas and its use in karma-kanda. So that as a
philosophy, as an interpretation that mimamsa is called Purva-mimamsa, or the first, the
beginning. While then Vyasadeva then that is Uttara-mimamsa means you see the latter,
or latter in this case can also mean higher. So then we are seeing the meta-physics and
the philosophy. The main thing is the philosophy, the meta-physics are just the support.
That is also known as Vedanta, because it is based on the Vedanta-sutra.
Vedanta meaning it is the end of the Veda. You have the Veda and after going
through everything you get to Vedanta which is the conclusion of the Veda. So therefore
you have Vedanta-sutras. Because Vedanta is Upanisad. The knowledge is Vedanta, it is
the end of knowledgebut the conclusion of that to make sure that it is understood is
Vedanta-sutra. Therefore it is given the name Vedanta though the topic of the
Upanisads is Vedanta it is not necessarily appreciated as such. You always call it
Upanisadic or in the Upanisads.

Devotee (1): Do the Purva-mimamsakas have similar sutras to the Vedanta-sutra?

Maharaja: They have Jaimini sutras. Each of the 6 systems their head of their system has
documented their philosophy and how to look at it. From every hair-splitting angle,
because each one wants to defeat all the others and prove themselves. So they have to be
able to deal with all the same common topics. They just synthesize it into their thesis.
They know and have the knowledge of all 6, means the knowledge of all 6 of these forms
of darsana, all have the same knowledge. Whatever they have they know the same things
but they interpret into different ways so they bring everything from the focal point of
their one viewpoint.
So it is not that they have something and they dont know what you are talking
about. They know what you are talking about but they have already assimilated what you
are talking about into theirs. But what the other 5 dont know is about bhakti. So up to
the point the soul leaving the universe that they can discuss on but once you get to
bhakti then they dont have anything for that. They dont actually know about that. So
in that, that is what is beyond it is in Uttara-mimamsa. So the lower form the advaita
that is given by sankaracarya that would be more understandable or more discussable
amongst the other 5 schools. But the Vedanta as interpreted by Vyasa, Vaisnavism, that
would be more difficult for them to. Because all the schools are mundane, so only Vyasa
is transcendental. So they can kind of relate to the transcendence of just getting out of
the material world or impersonalism. That they can basically deal with. Though they may
not agree with it. Thats why they have their own school.
Devotee (2): Purva-mimamsa trying to explain the Upanisads through the vision of the
brahmanas?
Maharaja: Basically they will bring everything back to there. They will say the soul is
eternal. Then they say yes the soul is eternal thats why therefore his enjoyment of
karma is eternal. So if you always do good acts when you die the good acts go with you, so
then in your next life you continue. So your enjoyment is eternal. No, you get these little
blib in between death and you have to be born and grow up and have to actually figure
out how to use the karma but hey that is a minor point they finess that part. You have 15
to 20 years of gaps between actually you are able to apply and they dont really take into
consideration the old wrinkles that may be he cant take full advantage of the karma.
That he would use it for sannyasa and other things. Since he cant enjoy himself
therefore he would perform activities of sannyasa and vanaprastha to create more piety
to trade in on karmic enjoyment.
Their point is the soul is eternal, karma is eternal, it always goes on. But as far we go
karma is not. Karma is eternal as long as you maintain it. But as soon as you stop
maintaining it it stops. The soul is eternal, material energy is always around, Krsna is
eternal, that relationship is eternal but karma and time those two arent. They manifest
and unmanifest. Theyll bring those points but in a simple way into their own they wont
necessarily get into such detail. But they take if you get into detail they just generalize it
and then try to pull it into theirs.
Devotee (1): Were all the Darsanas originally theistic?

Maharaja: I have heard that there is that element. But the ones that we were talking
about are not. But there is something where I have heard that they are. But I cant bring
it that quote. When we get to the 6 systems book he put that together he may have
things on it.
Because we know that Sankhya there is the Lord, Kapila is there. There is also a
kapila that is mundane. Just like you have Buddha there is the Lord who came as that. So
you have Gautama Buddha and siddharta Buddha. So Gautama Buddha was the Lord.
Siddharta Buddha is someone who came along and that same philosophy was revealed to
him. So there is actually two Buddhas but people only know one and they combine them
together but they were actually two different people.
Devotee (3): Suhotra Maharajas book about the sad darsana he explains that in the
beginning there was studied one big theistic concept.
Maharaja: So there was one theistic concept with different aspects
Devotee (3): And later on they started to fight with each other and established their
own.
Maharaja: That is mentioned in the six systems book?
Devotee (3): Yes.
Maharaja: So then we will get into that in detail there. But otherwise it is one thing. It is
like anviksiki means you have nyaya, you have logic. But there is also system of yoga by
which you elevate yourself. Means we use the same thing, we use the same astanga-yoga
but we dont use the technique they do. But we use all the eight elements. So it is not
that it is different. And we understand that everything is coming from matter, from the
atoms and then from there everything is created, and from there everything goes back.
But we dont make that into a philosophy, it us just something that happened. You drop a
rock it falls down we dont make a philosophy out of it. So that is then what would
happen is that they get so focused in their area that they then see only from that and
then it develops into its own darsana.
Gaudiya Vaisnavas are in the disciplic line coming from Srila Vyasadeva and as the
Vedanta teaches sambandha relationship with Krsna, abhidheya or the process of bhakti and
prayojana or love of Godhead as the goal, gaudiya vaisnavas are also Vedantins and are
sometimes called Bhaktivedantas (di 7.106 purport).
So that was Prabhupada there. So we are in this line, so he has mentioned here
Vedanta teaches sambandha, abhidheya and prayojana, where Krsna is the relationship,
bhakti is the process, and love of Godhead is the goal. Again here we get the point that
this is what is being taught. Now Prabhupada is saying the Vedanta teaches these three
and Bhaktivinoda Thakura, Lord Caitanya was making the point that in the Veda these
three are taught. So the Veda teaches these three, Vedanta as the essence of the Veda
teaches these three. And the catur-sloki Bhagavatam that also is teaching these three. So
it always comes in these.

And the three, then sambandha has two parts. So in Vedanta-sutra there is two
other chapters are on sambandha, and in the catur-sloki two of them are in the
sambandha. So it has the same aspect.
In this study we will learn four aspects of Vedic hermeneutics:
1. Mangalacarana
2. Vastu-trayi
3. Pancanga Nyaya
4. Tatparya- linga
Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu would analyze the Vedic literatures in terms of Vastu-trayi
which is the most important and effective hermeneutic principle that can be applied in
analysis of any work. A whole section of this essay is devoted to the intricate study of Vastutrayi.
INTRODUCTION TO VASTU TRAYA - SAMBANDHA-ABHIDHEYAPRAYOJANA
Now we have established that there is perspective, the Vedas then follow this, this
confirmed by everyone, that anviksiki is used, has these parts. Then there is a darsana
therefore explaining this. And this is accepted by the scriptures, this is accepted by the
acaryas, and Srila Prabhupada is also then saying that this is what is happening. So in
this then we are going to break it down into whats included in these.
So your mangalacarana will be just your general overview. Your vastu-traya will be
your atma-vidya. And then your pancanga-nyaya and tatparya-lingas will be your hetuvidya. So that combination makes up anviksiki.
And this is our anviksiki because vastu-traya is how well break it up. Everybody else
may have a different way of breaking. This is what is described so they generally have a
similar thing, it wont use the same terms, may have things overlapping. They will
explain if from a particular perspective. So it includes the other parts but the perspective
it may make it one not aware of it which is important when you dont have a complete
philosophy you do have to make people unaware of certain aspects.
If your philosophy is not complete and you are talking about going to the heavenly
planets that is amara, it is deathless, so the part that you do die eventually and living
there seeming eternally is because 10.000 years is eternal compared to 100 here, or if you
are really pious then you might get more, get 100.000 years, get some millions of years,
become Brahma, trillions of years so then that is seemingly is eternal but it does have an
end. Because the problem is one is that when you have a longer lifespan you still see it
from the same perspective of a 100 years. Brahma lives 100 years. To us he lives a long
time but it is only 100 years. Like the ant they live 100 years, they only live 2 weeks but
the point is his 2 weeks is 100 years. So Brahmas 300 trillion years that is still his 100
years. So that has to be finessed in the karma-kanda.
So therefore theyll pull these things in and theyll look at it from a different
perspective so it will be included because you are going to have to deal with death and

birth and all these things because you are dealing with karma. So to do karma you have
to be grhastha, is married has family, he wants the family line to continue. Because if you
dont have pious children, you are not cultivating and supporting pious culture where are
you going to take birth to continue your karma-kanda? So it is all important but they just
see it from a different perspective.
Devotee (1): Why would someones lifespan of 100 years be cut short?
Maharaja: It is improper karma. But according to what technically does that means if you
want to bring it down to medical terminology or stuff like that, lifestyle, then it is
irregulation. That is generally what gets people. Also performance of certain sinful
activities will shorten the life. You insult a chaste woman that is going to shorten your
life. You insult brahmanas that will shorten your life. Different things like that, imitate
Krsnas rasa-lila will shorten your life. Even though you should live longer it will
truncate it, and possibly literally.
But otherwise the normal thing is people are regulated. That is one thing you see
about people who are really old generally you dont hear about them in the city, they are
generally more in the suburbs or out in the country. They eat the same thing everyday
same time, and you only changes with the seasons, but they do the same thing every
season. So one would call their life boring but because of that then they live a long time.
So the idea is it is boring because they dont have Krsna so if you have a regulated
lifestyle and you have Krsna therefore then it is dynamic. So thats why regulation is so
important. Of course, those who want short lifetimes because they are miserable in the
material world and cant figure out how to make any relationship work though they are
dying for that then profess that regulation is not important, it is an old-fashioned thing,
it doesnt really not going to get what you want, and all that. That is like the moth flying
into the fire. If you look at it from the logical point of view it is amazing and at the same
time sad that there can be so much intelligence misapplied. So it is a very interesting
phenomena. But because the science is there it is very obvious. So the intellect may be
able to catch it but the emotions and the ego dont want to hear anything about it.
Sambandha, Abhidheya and Prayojana is the Essential Teaching of the Vedic
Literatures. The complete understanding of any philosophy is accomplished by analyzing it in
terms of Vastu-traya. What is prayojana or goal of the person propounding this philosophy?
How does the philosopher in his quest for the truth explain sambandha or relationship
between the different elements of the creation such as him the living entity, the universe and
God. What does he recommend as abhidheya or process to achieve his goals?
Means everybody is going to have that. You dont have a philosophy unless you have
a goal. You can only attain the goal through your process. And to engage in the process
you have to have a definition of who you are, what everything around you that you are
going to be interacting and using in the process is. So they are all going to have this. So
even the bogus can be described according to these three.
So if you have a study of other philosophies all you have to do is find these. You dont
have to study it the way they presented it because the guy himself possibly doesnt even
know this. If it is Vedic then Vedic meaning Jaimini, Patanjali, Gautama, Vaisyasika,
theyll logically present it and theyll use these systems. So basically you can read theirs as

it is, you just have to interpret it into our philosophy. But if they are not in these,
following strictly these schools their presentation is going to be convoluted and it will
not be understandable.
Just like in the modern they say all philosophers it all comes from Plato, the Western
philosophers. But the point is Plato came from Sokrates. Just Plato figured out that you
keep your head on your shoulders by talking platonic philosophy rather than sokratic. It
works a little better. Unless you like Hemlock then go for it. But if you dont like
Hemlock then you adjust it. It is good for your health.
Therefore it is going to be convoluted. It is already convoluted where they are getting
it from. They themselves dont look at it from sambandha, abhidheya and prayojana.
Such a clear enunciation of the philosophy of atma-vidya, such a clear presentation of it
according to hetu-vidya none of them have. They go on and on and on and get very
technical but the point is you can simplify that down very easily. But they the taste is in
the technicality so they dont like it being simplified because their philosophy has no
substance, it doesnt take you anywhere, do much for you. It is limited what it can do.
Therefore the taste has to be in the intellectualizing on it.
Therefore bring it to such simple position that they generally try to avoid. I was once
talking to a, he was a masters in mathematics and I was explaining to him Western
mathematics and about the Vedic mathematics and I was showing how everything
becomes simplified down to the point of addition. So through that you can do anything
whether it is arithmetic, algebraic, geometry, trigonometry, it calculates all just addition,
different forms of addition.
Either forward or if you reverse it then it is subtraction. You add in groups then it is
multiplication, you reverse it or subtract in groups you get division. All the mathematics
are based on this. So it is all addition. So you are understand this then it works very
nicely.
The guy, I was thinking he will be very inspired by this because it is so clear. He says I
already know that. Means in the Western academy we know this but we dont like this
because then where is the taste? The taste is in the complexities of mathematical
formulas, not in that it is principles and its simpleness. So he didnt appreciate the Vedic
mathematical system because it simplifies something so complex down to something so
less.
Like people like this wouldnt appreciate that 8 years olds are learning trigonometry
and geometry but in its simplest forms. Their idea no you should learn arithmetic, then
when you get older and more mature then you learn these things because then your taste
increase because it gets more complex. So it is just a different approach.
Lord Caitanya repeatedly taught that the essence of the Vedas or any knowledge
should be understood through the process of Vastu-traya. Here are some examples:
4
veda-sastra kahe -- sambandha abhidheya prayojana krsna -- prapya sambandha bhakti
-- praptyera sadhana

The Vedic literatures give information about the living entitys eternal relationship with
Krsna, which is called sambandha. The living entitys understanding of this relationship and
acting accordingly is called abhidheya. Returning home, back to Godhead, is the ultimate goal
of life and is called prayojana (Cc. Madhya, 20.124).
That is interesting: understanding of this relationship and acting it. Means the
information that is the sambandha, that you are studying it. In other words, here we are
discussing sambandha-jnana, but the process that is going on here is abhidheya. So to
understand it that means you are going to cultivate it and practice it. So your
contemplation of it then is going to be the understanding, and acting accordingly is the
abhidheya. Then that abhidheya comes to the point of realization.
The knowledge itself which you have heard so this is still process then you are going
to contemplate it and apply it, then you are going to realize it. So that is all part of the
process of abhidheya but in it you see part of it touches on sambandha, part of it touches
on prayojana. But it is still abhidheya. So you get sambandha, abhidheya and prayojana
within abhidheya.
bhagavnsambandha, bhaktiabhidheya haya premprayojana, vede
tina-vastu kaya
r Caitanya Mahprabhu continued, The Supreme Personality of Godhead is the
central point of all relationships, acting in devotional service to Him is ones real occupation,
and the attainment of love of Godhead is the ultimate goal of life. These three subject matters
are described in the Vedic literature. (CC Madhya 6.178)
So you can take this are described in the Vedic literature as if we take it based on the
first one then we say these are the subjects, so the Vedic literature describes this. The
other is that you are taking it these are described among with other things. That is what
your modern academy will try to do, they try to brush this aside. Because if you dont
brush this to the side everything has to fit into these categories then it becomes very
obvious that your sambandha is off, your abhidheya is off, and your prayojana is off. So
very quickly one will see the weakness in any other philosophy than the Vaisnava
philosophy. So thats why generally they try to avoid it being broken up like this. They
will have other aspects that they will pick that they can always find something.
In this verse Caitanya Mahaprabhu explains the ultimate purpose and meaning of the
vedic literatures is understood in terms of vastu trayi. In the following sections we will
explain how the concept of vastu traya is applicable not only to Vedic scriptures but also to
all kinds of knowledge.
In His instructions, Sri Caitanya explained the three esoteric concepts from the scriptures
known as: sambandha (eternal relationship), abhidheya (direct application) and prayojana
(ultimate necessity) (Bhaktivinode, 2000, Dasa-mula-tattva, p.17) For this reason when
instructing Srila Sanatana Gosvami, Lord Caitnaya explained in Cc. Madhya verses
20.143.146:
In the Vedic literature, Sri Krsna is the central point of attraction, and His service is
our activity. To attain the platform of love of Krsna is lifes ultimate goal. Therefore, Krsna,
Krsnas service and love of Krsna are the three great riches of life. When one accepts Vedic

literature by dictionary meaning or even by interpretation, i.e. directly of indirectly, the

ultimate declaration of Vedic knowledge points to Lord Krsna (quoted by Bhaktivinode,
2000, Dasa-mula-tattva,p.17).
...when discussing the principles of sambandha, the Veda points to Krsna alone.
Similarly, devotional service to Krsna is the abhidheya principle and love of Godhead, Krsna,
is the singular necessity and ultimate objective of the entire Vedic literature, prayojana
(Bhaktivinode, 2000, Dasa-mula-tattva, p.17).
The value of any philosophy is measured by the degree to which it can be applied in ones
everyday life. Here we will learn how the fundamental concepts of Vastu traya are also the
fundamental concepts of surrounding reality.
In other words, sambandha, abhidheya and prayojana function both philosophically
and materially, it is how everything is established. So you understand this, you
understand the philosophy then from that you can see how this will apply in your life.
Therefore this is reality, anything else is actually short of it. That someone is looking for
reality that is good, someone is being practical that is good. But to be practical to be real
means you have to have an identity, being real you are following a process that is getting
you a result. So already sambandha, abhidheya and prayojana are there. So the point is
connect Krsna to those. As Krsnas servant then I am following a lifestyle that gets me
the facility that I can maintain myself so I can perform my devotional service that I can
attain love of God and make everybody else in this circle develop love of God. That is
practical, according to sastra, and Krsna conscious.
But to just say, oh I dont follow all this stuff, I am being practical, I am being real
prabhu. That is unfortunate. Because he is still following sambandha, abhidheya,
prayojana but he is not seeing himself specifically in this way as a servant of Krsna, his
family in that connection, his work in that connection, or his goal. Everything is too
short termed it is all temporary. So it is temporary reality but then there is a reality that
temporary reality is temporary. And then next life what are you going to do about it? If
you want there to be a next life in this material world. Or you want next life to be in the
spiritual world? That is also a reality. So if you cant combine the two realities by the
lower one supporting the higher one your concept of this vastu-traya is not very well
developed. (end of lecture) (end)
October 16, 2008
Maharaja: So now we are dealing with the vastu-traya: sambandha, abhidheya and
prayojana.
VASTU TRAYA
viaya - the subject matter
Complete knowledge is knowledge which is understood in terms of vastu-traya explained by
Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

viaya doubt
Mahaprabhus definition of vastu traya is theological.
5
prva paka - objections
Theology is just one of the braches of learning and theological tenets do not necessarily apply
to all aspects of life. An experienced traveller might not be a learned Vedic scholar or a
religious man and still he may have complete knowledge of travelling and travel without
understanding the principles of Vastu-traya.
uttara - reply to the objections
Vastu means substance, traya means three. Vastu-traya are the three substances or principles
of any endeavor sambandha, abhidheya and prayojana. Sambandha means relationships or
elements, abhidheya means process and prayojana means goal. Understanding the Vastutrayi of any situation is a solid method of analysis.
The subject is Mahaprabhu explained everything according to vastu-traya, so
everything is according to sambandha, abhidheya and prayojana, in all aspects. Then the
doubt is this is nice but this is theory. It is nice theory but it is theory it is not practical.
Because we see there is a man, he gives an example of a traveller. He knows how to travel
around, he can go to all places, he can do everything, and he doesnt know vastu-traya
and his life is going perfectly. So therefore it is a nice philosophy but it actually doesnt
apply in our day to day life. There is so many people in this world they are successful and
they dont know what vastu-traya is and their life goes on. So why are you saying that
Mahaprabhus vastu-traya is the basis of all understanding and of all action?
So then here we are saying, the reply to that is, that is vastu-traya, traya means three
and vastu means substance, so there is three aspects of substance they apply everywhere.
So whether the traveller knows about this or not, if he is experienced and he is getting a
proper result means he is actually unknowingly following it. In other words, good karma
means you follow it or get that situation, not good karma means it wont happen for you.
Better karma is it is connected to the philosophy. It has a solid basis. Then from there
you can more scientifically apply it in your natural performance of your duties. That
means it doesnt matter what your karma is. Because the highest piety is the study of the
Vedas. So by studying the Veda then you have the knowledge how to apply this in your
life. And by applying this in your life then it works. So even though by material karma
you dont deserve it by the grace of guru, sadhu and sastra you get it. So thats why one
should never be proud of ones previous position or accomplishments because it is the
sastric application that actually creates good.
If you are getting good where you dont perceive its connection to sastra why would
one want to be proud of that? Because it is temporary. It is the results of action. So that
means you are only working off the results you are not generating new. So if you are not
generating new how can you say? You have so much money and you are spending the
money lavishly but how can you be really proud that I am rich because you are spending
the money, you are not generating any more. You are generating billions, you are
spending millions that is something to be proud of. You are not generating anything, you

are spending millions then how much time is it before you have nothing? So thats why
then one will be going along and suddenly there will be a big slap on the face. Because
then what is there from your piety is finished.
In other words, someone has the thing, they give the doubt then they give their
reasons, then you give your reply to the reasons. This is taking it from this there visaya,
visaya, purva-paksa and uttara, and then, not sure, it was siddhanta. But we also
remember is that when we were doing the other one is that you have the thesis, the hetu
and all those different aspects. They are other means of presenting it. I think Vyasas
terminology that he used, or it was the other way round, this is Vyasa and the other is
Gautama. Is that you give your thesis, your reasons, your examples, your bringing
everything together your synthesis or bringing it closer, and then giving your final point
and then its connection to the sastra.
So they are doing the same thing because here the doubt comes up because now you
have explained what is going on. So the doubt comes with that. Then they give their
objections. When they give their objections thats in the third part that is when you give
all your examples and explanations. So then you reply to these, then in that you are
going to bring it all together and then conclude with something that shows that there is
not a difference. So you are basically doing the same thing. It is just how you perceive
and whether you are just presenting it or you are having to discuss it. If there is
discussion there is put into the element of that interaction. While the other one is you
are just explaining it in such a way that it goes through very smoothly. Just very logical
steps you are going through because you are talking no one else is talking. So you can just
go through and present it very logically. But if you are saying something and then there
is a doubt then you have to deal with the doubt so therefore the interaction takes
prominence.
Devotee (1): Why are examples used to support the main point?
Maharaja: You give a concept and you have to explain the concept in relationship to
something that who you are explaining to would understand.
Like I remember math class upstairs. The teacher was explaining some aspect of
fractions to the kids and he was using an example of construction and he was using
bricks. You have so many bricks built up and then how many are in this and how many
are in that. The kids are sitting there with a blank look on their face. Then he
understood there is a blank look then he started talking about this in relationship to
food. Immediately all the eyes lit up, the brain switched on and the example was
understood just like that. Because the point was if you had so many bricks, it takes so
many bricks here so how are going to divide it up? I didnt make any sense. But if he says
you go over and you get one of Radha-Madhavas cheese cakes and there is so many boys
so how are you going to divide the cheese cake. Immediately the brains are working.
Thats why examples are there.
You bring it into the realm of the understanding or the field of experience of who
you are speaking to. So that is the idea is that you say the thing, you expand it enough so
that it is clear what you are saying then you give examples so that they can relate it into
their life, then you bring that near by now, so therefore this is what is going to be done

and we can see that this is the best way to do it. So then you started with your point, you
ended with the same point but in between you made it useful for whomever you are
explaining it to. Practically useful.
I think it is srotrya, a term used by Manu, and the term means someone who can
make something theoretical understandable and practical. In other words, he can take
something that is theoretical and allow you to actually see it. That is what you are trying
to gain in a teacher. The teacher should be able to explain something that you dont
know in a way that you can actually see it. Not understand it, see it. It becomes, you are
able to relate to it. Since people have certain things they like to see and certain things
they dont like to see. Like the kids like to see prasada so therefore that is something they
can see. So when you give the example through that they actually understand it. Because
understand means enough to use it. Understand doesnt mean it is just logical.
Understand means enough to use it. Or enough to contemplate it so you can use it. But
the point is the result should be practical. If it is not practical then it is not actually up to
the Vedic standard. So that is the complaint here: it is just theological, it is not actually
practical. No, they are explaining, Lord Caitanya is the most practical.
Let us take an example of Devadatta desiring to reach the town of Vrindavana. His
goal or prayojana is to get to Vrndavana. The abhidheya or process he will use to get
there will depend on his sambandha or current position in relation to Vrndavana. Firstly
he will need to find out where Vrndavana is, is it north, south or west of his current
location? How far is it from his current location? Depending on the answers to these
questions, he will be able to decide on his abhidheya or process for achieving his goal. If
his position is that he is in Delhi, then his abhidheya may be to catch a train to Mathura
and then a bus, or taxi to Vrndavana. Or his abhidheya maybe to just rent a taxi right in
Delhi. If his sambandha is that he is in Australia or the USA then it will not be possible
for him to get to Vrndavana by train or taxi. He will need to consider a different mode of
transport, like a plane or possibly a ship. Taking all sambhanda, abhidaya and prayojana
into consideration Devadatta understanding or knowledge will become complete and he
will easily reach Vrindavana.
So it still applies. That is the whole thing. When devotees say they are just being
practical means they are doing the same thing but without the knowledge, without the
basis on authority. And without that basis then the difficulty comes it is practical but it
is not Krsna conscious. Then because Krsna consciousness is so perfect then if the end
result of that activity that you have done without actually proper understanding of its
connection with Krsna the result of it can be given to Krsna. Still the benefit of the
whole thing is gained.
You go to a job just make your money but the money then is used in Krsna
consciousness then you have connected that whole work and anything connected to it.
But you can improve this by being able to see your work in connection with Krsna and
anything connected to that work in connection to Krsna. Then it improves the quality.
So in the beginning just that that result is given that you identify yourself as servant of
Krsna so then the abhidheya will be connected. But what we are saying here is that we
can also through this proper understanding that Lord Caitanya has given take it into

those realms also. So the more we know the more we can apply it and technically
connect it to Krsna.
Another practical example is that of a boy. Devadatta wants to eat a rasagula. Here
the sambandha is in relation to people and food. The prayojana could be to relish the
sweet taste. What is the abhidheya, or process required to achieve this goal? This depends
on more information in the sambandha category. Does he already have the sweet on his
plate? If this is so, then the abhidheya or process, is to simply pick the sweet up, place it
in his mouth and chew. If he does not already have a sweet, then his abhidheya may be to
either cook some and offer them to Krsna, or he may purchase some maha prasada at the
temple.
Relationship, process and goal is going on at every moment with anything that is
happening. It is the way that it has been created. We have to remember that Caitanya
Mahaprabhu is Svayam-Krsna, and He is the origin of everything. He is the origin of
Balarama who is the origin of all other Visnu-tattva. He is the origin of Srimati
Radharani who is the origin of all other forms of sakti. So did we miss anything?
Something was left out? Your business, your money, your family, your flee-bitten dog?
Means He is the origin of everything therefore when Krsna or Lord Caitanya speaks
then youd have to take it as the ultimate authority. Because He has created everything,
everythings come from Him. So there is a good chance that He knows what is going on
with everything. It wasnt that there is the creation of all the visnu-tattva then of all the
sakti-tattva and then your little family situation somehow or another got missed in that
and it was generated on its own
Therefore you are trying to establish everything falls into vastu-traya, vastu-traya
can explain everything. There is nothing that doesnt fall into the categories of vastutraya. It is a matter of understanding how that works. Because since you have something
that everything fits in and it relates to everything that means even though it is very
simple it only got 3 parts it must be extremely sophisticated to be able to accommodate
every perspective, every angel, every goal that anybody could have. So that then one
doesnt underestimate the sophistication of it. It is presented simply, oh this is being
simplistic. No anything that is a principle is always simple. So being simple doesnt mean
that it is meant for idiots, it makes someone with brains to make something simple. If you
dont have brains it is complicated if it gets something done. Or you have no brains and
it is simple there is a good chance it doesnt work. Or if you are simple you have heard
from authority you just use it you dont understand it you just know it works.
Like the labour when they are making round houses all they know is whatever the
width of the circle is the outside diameter is 3 times that. That is all they know they have
heard it from their guru. They wouldnt have a clue how it works. All they know is that if
this is ten hands across and you are going to put bamboos every two hands therefore it is
30 so therefore you are going to need 15 bamboos so it is easy for them. They dont know
why it works. So that is simple. But it works but they have heard from authority.
The efficiency is hearing from authority, so you can hear from authority and apply it,
not understand it but apply it. Or you hear from authority understand it and apply it
that means then situations that the authority hasnt explained it in relationship to you

can still use the instruction of authority. While the other person cant. Because they
dont understand.
Devotee (2): How does understanding and applying makes a difference?
Maharaja: Let us say your father says you take 100 rupees you buy goods with 100 rupees.
Then you sell it for 200 rupees. So now you made 100 rupees profit. So now you have 200
rupees. So now you take a 100 rupees again and you apply that and sell that for 200
rupees. You dont necessarily understands how it works you just know that you do this it
works. So you will make money. But when you have 10000 rupees and you are still
investing 100 rupees you are making profit but you dont understand. If you understood
the economics behind what your father is saying then when you have 10000 rupees then
you are investing 1000 rupees. Then you are making 10 times as much. And then what is
if you have only 50 rupees my father says it has to be 100 rupees. Then you cant do it?
So when you understand the theory that is behind the science that you are using
then you can apply it in situations that you werent taught in. Because how many things
can they teach you? How many situations can you explain? You can only explain enough
situations to make the person understand. After that the person has to use their
intelligence and apply it themselves.
Here is an example from Srila PrabhupadaJust like first of all a boy or a girl is to
be married. So... That is the Vedic system. The father, mother, selects. That is called
sambandha. When they fixed up that "This boy will be married with that girl," that is
called sambandha. So relationship. Then when the sambandha is established by marriage,
when the boy or girl is married, then the sambandha is done. "Now... Now the boy and
the girl may remain separately in their respective homes." No. That is abhidheya.
Abhidheya. When they are united by the marriage there must be dealings between them.
That is called abhidheya. Abhidheya. Abhidheya means not that "Our now marriage
ceremony, relationship is established. Now you Mr. such and such, you go home, I go
home." No. There must be actual activities. The wife should take care of serving the
husband, and the husband should take care of the wife. Then the relationship... Why this
relationship? Why these are activities? Now, there is prayojana. What is that prayojana?
To get son. Marriage means to get son. That is prayojana (SP lecture Srimad
Bhagavatam1.5.24, Vrndavan August 5th, 1975)
Believe it or not, Prabhupada also used this sambandha, abhidheya and prayojana.
Some senior devotees preachers say he doesnt use it where did you guys get it from? Here
it is.
You have established the relationship but if the relationship doesnt do anything how
do you actually call it a relationship? Relationship means there is the establishing of the
field, then there is establishing that connection. Once that connection is there then
there is activities so that connection before we described as desire or the interest then
there is interaction.
Otherwise it is just you had the marriage so that means that is the field. Boy is there,
girl is there, they are matched they are married. So that is the field. You could say if
marriage is the whole thing then you could say we need a boy and a girl and through the

marriage ritual at the end of the marriage they are married. So that is the sambandha,
abhidheya and prayojana within sambandha in this example. But they are talking family
life is the subject matter. Therefore sambandha is finding the right two people for the
marriage, getting them married, then they interact, then they have a family. Then that
works. Then it is complete.
So this principle means why is he saying it there because you could say it is
established that is enough and many people think once thats there thats done. They are
married the guy goes out on sankirtana, the girl does Deity worship but where is the
family, where is the interaction. So it wasnt that. Their goal was to get them married
that they have done but what about the relationship within that? That is basically
ignored.
Someone got them, they went out they worked, they got the money. So it is done.
But now what are going to do with the money, how will it be spent, how will it properly
used for the family? Or that they have gotten the things for the family then it is done.
What about interacting with those things that you bought? You buy pots, if nothing is
cooked in the pots then what is the meaning?
In other words, once a relationship is established then there must be interaction, and
that interaction must give some result. Then it has meaning. Otherwise not so
important.
Devotee (3): The son was prayojana but once the son is there then there will be
activities, education
Maharaja: Now it is then son in relationship, now it is a matter of he has got to perfect
his life and become God conscious, so that is your goal. So you have the son so there
must be an abhidheya, there must be a process. So therefore proper association in the
family, proper training outside the family, that combination then you bring them proper
practices and experiences that they will then develop their love for Krsna.
So you are always dealing with the sambandha, abhidheya and prayojana every
moment. It is just a matter of you are dealing in a smaller circle or a bigger circle, they
are all going on at the same time. So that is what is confusing is which one to focus on at
the moment, which one you are dealing with right now. Just like the sound is going on
here, the sound is going on upstairs, the sound is going on over there where they are
working but we dont bother with those other sounds we just listen to whats going on in
here. So thats the whole idea once you understand this sambandha, adhideya and
prayojana then it is a trick of applying which one you should be listening to, which one
you should be applying, on which circle.
Even if the family life is the total picture in this case, but still you have to get them
married so that will be sambandha, abhidheya and prayojana within that. Like this you
are going to apply that within the sambandha, abhidheya and prayojana, the same
principle is always going to apply.
nirnaya - conclusion
Understanding the Vastu-traya of any situation is a solid method of analysis. Vastu-trayi
constitutes complete knowledge, because it considers of elements. All complete knowledge

considers all elements like Devadattas complete knowledge. Vastu-trayi considers all
elements. Therefore Vastu-trayi constitutes complete knowledge.
6
In this way, one can see that in every situation sambandha, abhidheya and prayojana
apply. This is important to understand, because any type of knowledge without understanding
these three aspects is incomplete. Ultimately, a person equipped with knowledge of
sambandha, abhidheya, and prayojana is able to fully ascertain any situation and its
connection with Krsna.
So then you can also take that last point that is made that is your actual conclusion.
And this one before that is put as conclusion is where you are bringing it close because
your actual point is that therefore you can see everything in connection with Krsna.
Because you are trying to establish that it is in connection with everything but now what
are you going to do with that?
It is the conclusion of the debate but if you are making the presentation as we are saying
when Gautama then you are making the sangati, you are making the connection. So you
have made your point in connection in this case with understanding Krsna.
Viaya- Thesis
Sambandha, Abhidheya and Prayojana is the Essential Teaching of the Vedic Literatures.
The Veda is called Trayi because its essential teaching is vastu-traya and a complete
understanding of the Vedas comes from studying it in terms of sambandha, abhidheya and
prayojana.
Here we have visaya, samsaya, purva-paksa, uttaram and nirnaya. So the synthesis is
coming at the end there. The other is you are using pratijna, hetu, udaharana, upanaya
and nigamana. So you are giving your thesis and then your reasons. So then when you
are using visaya and samsaya then your reasons are included in your visaya. The elements
are there it is just a matter of connecting in here because you are dealing with someone
elses doubt.
So we see here that Sambandha, Abhidheya and Prayojana is the Essential Teaching of
the Vedic Literatures. That is your thesis. Now the hetu, your reasons is The Veda is called
Trayi because its essential teaching is vastu-traya and a complete understanding of the Vedas
comes from studying it in terms of sambandha, abhidheya and prayojana. So that is an
expansion. Only when you expand can you get a doubt. Because Sambandha, Abhidheya
and Prayojana is the Essential Teaching of the Vedic Literatures you can start to have a
doubt but you cant really express it because it is the essential teaching of the Veda in
what way? So the hetu will give you an application. Once there is an application then
you can say no it doesnt apply like this.
Like I can say this is a pillar. What do you mean by that? This is a pillar, you have to
have this many bricks and this much cement and put it together like this and then that is
your perfect pillar. Then he can have a doubt. But what about that pillar, is that not a
pillar. That was not using the same amount of bricks. Its ok you are open for it, you are
ready, but you have said something its an essential point around which you can get

everything to work. But you havent said enough that the other party can actually grab
something. Once they grab it then they go.
The two parts here go into the one. The third part is which is examples where you
yourself anyway are clearing the doubt because your examples is more important because
you are explaining it. But if you are talking with someone else then the doubt becomes
the prominent reason. So therefore the doubt comes to a prominent place. So it is
brought to the second position instead of being included in the third.
We are saying this to point out that there is no contradiction between these two
systems. Otherwise this is what causes doubt within studying the Vedic literature.
Because it is seemingly contradictory. So that is why we are trying to remove this. If you
are just explaining something then you go on and you if you think someone might have
doubt they are not expressing it you express it and then you give all your examples so
that is happening in your third part. You made your point, expanded it, then giving all
your examples, clear doubts, then you bring it back together and then you give its
connection.
But if there is a doubt you express your point. You have made your expansions, the
doubt comes up. But the doubt is coming up in the position for you in the third position
but because they only see your point and your explanation as one thing therefore their
doubt comes to the second. Then where you would be explaining things to remove doubt
that is where they are explaining their doubt. And then you are going to give your
answer to that which will be still your part but to them now it is the fourth part because
their doubt is the important thing. So their doubt takes up two parts instead of one. But
if you are not having a discussion then your explanation and examples take up two parts
instead of being merged. Then youll bring it close, youll bring it together, you conclude
it, you synthesize it and give your conclusion.
So the main thing is in the discussion the synthesis is your conclusion because then
the doubt is removed because that is your goal. But if you want to go beyond the doubt
now you are going to apply it therefore then the other aspect of the system. You are
going to take into its connection with other things. And so the most important
connection is with Krsna.
Devotee (4): If there is an objection on the thesis is that a major rejection or an
intellectual doubt?
Maharaja: It could be either. If the objection is intellectual it is called a doubt. If the
objection is emotional it is called a misgiving. Thats why Prabhupada says doubts and
misgivings must be removed. A doubt means intellectually I cant put it together. I cant
understand you put 2 and 2 and got 4. Misgiving is you say 2 plus 2 is 4, I dont want 2
plus 2 to be 4. That is the difference. Misgiving means I have some emotional reason I
dont want it to be like that. The other one is I dont understand how it is like that. I
have a doubt about how it is like that. I am not saying that it cant be like that. While the
misgiving means even though I understand that 2 and 2 is 4 I dont like it, I want it to be
something else. You gave me two rasagulas and two more rasagulas I want it to be 20
because that is how many I want to eat. I dont want to eat four, I want to eat twenty. So
that is a misgiving.

Devotee (5): The connection between reason and process isnt made you said
Maharaja: It is not made, it could have been made but you dont understand it. Thats
why it is very important to not take it that it wasnt made. You can say I dont
understand it it appear contradictory or it appears that there is no connection. But to say
it is not then you would have to be very confident. You can present it that way but once
you have presented that way then also your uttara is going to be more strong because you
have confidently said the other person is wrong so they are going to in the same
confidence show you how you are wrong. While if you say it is submissive inquiry so
therefore this seems contradictory so I dont understand how it works then you leave it
open for a more gentle explanation. So it is just whatever you prefer. Live by the sword
die by it.
That is also a problem in the modern before is that they would make a strong
presentation and they get it back and that. I remember hearing one it was in one meeting
one really strong devotee he would always present things very strong, I would be very
strong in his observations about others and then one day a topic came up and somebody
who is not a normal part of the discussion came in and was really strongly speaking
against this person. And so the person who was chairing the meeting then he told the
person you cant speak like this, it is not proper, thinking that the other person would be
disturbed. So that person says no, no it is not a problem I can dish it out I can take it. So
we wanted to have it on that level because it would be very direct and over very quickly,
so everything is on the table. But nowadays everybody wants to be able to speak harshly
to others and be dealt with kid gloves on the other way. So that is the difficulty. That is
what we were talking about this morning spin doctoring. The topic is something else but
you spin it to make it that it is all about you when it was talking about something else.
(end of lecture) (end)
October 17, 2008
Maharaja: So we went through one application where we saw that the thesis is being
given that Lord Caitanyas presentation of sambandha, abhidheya and prayojana that
applies to all times, all places and all circumstances. Then the purva-paksa, doubt or
disagreement was, well that is theological. So that is like philosophy, religion but it
doesnt actually apply it practical life. And so just saying many people are very good and
practicing in many things and they can do so many activities without being either
religious or knowing this concept. So then it is pointed out that no the way he is dealing
is also going to be according to this because he cant be expert at what he is doing unless
he is following this principle. Even if he is unaware that this is what he is following. In
this way then it always applies. Gods laws are there everything functions by Gods laws
so therefore what he is following is Gods laws even though unknowingly. So it still
applies.
So now we have another what we are going through.

Viaya- Thesis
Sambandha, Abhidheya and Prayojana is the Essential Teaching of the Vedic
Literatures.
So that is the actual thesis. So then expansion on that or explanation.
The Veda is called Trayi because its essential teaching is vastu-traya and a complete
understanding of the Vedas comes from studying it in terms of sambandha, abhidheya
and prayojana.
viaya - doubt
The teachings of the Vedic literatures are very vast and speak of different subjects. The
word trayi is used because there are three main Vedas Rig, Yajur and Sama.
We are saying that the sambandha, abhidheya and prayojana is the essential points
of the Vedas and as a definition we are saying that the trayi, that is why the Vedas are
called the 3 Vedas because it deals with sambandha, abhidheya and prayojana. The doubt
no, it is actually they deal with so many things they dont just deal with sambandha,
abhidheya and prayojana. They deal with many other things so the trayi means there is
Rg, Yajur and Sama.
prva paka - objections
We see that for example Yajur Veda consists of many chapters dealing with variety of
subjects which extend far beyond three. Further every Veda and branch of Vedic
literatures has its own vastu traya just as for instance the goal of Jyotisha sastra is to find
proper time for performing sacrifices.
So it is not that you can say it is all together and they are dealing with one subject
matter because they have so many subject matters in it and each of these subject matters
has its own goals and its own activities etc.
uttara - reply to the objections
Yes, the word trayi is also used in the sense of three Vedas and there are many chapters
in Yajur Veda. Nonetheless if one analyzes it carefully with the desire to find its ultimate
principles or essence one comes to the conclusion that Yajur Veda is speaking only about
three subjects. The relationships between scarifies, the person performing the scarifies,
and Isvara and that is sambhanda. Variety of scarifies, times and ways of performing the
scarifies that is the second subject of abhidheya and finaly the Veda speaks of different
goals and results one gets by performing the scarifies or the proyojana.
It is speaking about who is qualified to do what sacrifice under what thing, the
different sacrifices that are there and who is the Lord of those sacrifices. So here it is
dealing with sambandha, what are the relationships there. Because you have a particular
Deity, a particular worshiper and a particular ritual that connects all those three. So
therefore that is all sambandha. Like you have cit, acit, isvara, you have the Supreme
Lord, you have the material energy and you have the jiva. Or we say it is the Supreme
Lord, the jiva and then it is held together by acintya-bhedabheda-tattva. So since this is
a description we understand that this is sambandha, it is not the performance of. Then

he will get into detail of how you perform this sacrifice. So different sacrifices are
performed in different ways still that is abhidheya. And then different sacrifices give
different results, and the result is still prayojana. So the whole thing is dealing with
sambandha, abhidheya and prayojana. Within each one of them we can break that down
also into sambandha, abhidheya and prayojana.
So we have to be able to distinguish between principle and detail. Because in detail it
is talking about so many things. But in principle the form that it is working in is still the
same. Otherwise we think there is so many subject matters. But all these subject matters
still work according to sambandha, abhidheya and prayojana. And the overall theme of
the Veda is sambandha, abhidheya and prayojana.
At the same time we can even take it further Rg is sambandha because you establish
the Deity and everything. Yajur is how you perform the sacrifice, is abhidheya. And the
Sama is the prayojana because they are prayers about the Deity. So you can even take it
that way.
Though the Veda is vast, with many divisions, its teaching of vastu-traya is
consistent because the different divisions of the Veda expand from one another and
have a common source. The Vedic scriptures first manifest as the syllable om, then they
expand as the brahma gayatri mantra which farther expands to the Vedas.
From Brahma-gayatri it goes to Purusa-sukta. From Purusa-sukta then the full Veda.
For example a person interested only in the flowers of the nag campak tree might not
see their connection to the branches and roots, however if he expands his interest and
scientifically studies the flowers he will also learn about the braches and roots without
which the flowers would never come to exist. So in this way one has to see the
connections between the different parts of the body of Vedic knowledge. The purpose of
the Jyotisha sastra is the same as the purpose of the Vedas. One chooses proper time for
performing scarifies so that one can please the supreme Lord of sacrifice and thus purify
ones existence.
These others are dealing by it but they are coming from the Veda also. So one may
say you are saying sambandha, abhidheya and prayojana is just for the Veda but it is also
there in the Jyotish sastra. But Jyotish sastra is an expansion of the Veda. Because being
Vedanga it is also part of that.
nirnaya - conclusion
Since the purpose of the Vedas is to bring one to the ultimate conclusions and reveal the
higher truths it is understood that the interpretation of the word trayi as referring to the
three fold meaning of the Vedas in the terms of sambhanda abhidheya and prayojana is
fully acceptable.
7
Just as the roots, trunk, branches of the same tree are all consistent being of the same
kind; similarly the syllable om, the gayatri, the Veda, Vedanta, and Srimad Bhagavatam,
are all consistent having as its basic substance sambhanda, abhidheya and prayojana.

It seems that he has an ongoing conversation here Here it appears that his
conclusion is giving rise to a doubt and then from that it continues the discussion.
Doubt
It is acceptable that the Vedas speak in the terms of Sambhanda, abhidheya and prayjana
but still to different persons sambhanda, abhidheya, and prayojana can be different.
They are saying the same thing, its consistent but you are bringing up a doubt.
Different people have different perspectives so for them it is different, the sambandha,
abhidheya and prayojana.
Objections
Just as for instance the sambhanda, abhidheya and prajoyana of Mayavada philosophers
is different than that of Vaisnavas.
Reply to objections
Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu taught that if one studies the Vedas objectively, the
ultimate sambandha will be understood as the relationship between the living entity and
God, abhidheya will be understood as the process of reviving that relationship or
devotional service, and the prayojana or goal will be understood as the attainment of
love or God.
Sarvabauma Bhattacarya and Prakasananda Saraswati are examples of great learned
Vedic scholars who after hearing Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu explain the Veda in terms of
vastu-traya felt that their previous understanding was incomplete.
Sarvabauma Bhattacarya he was the leading intellectual in India in his time but he
was a scholar, he was a pandit because he was married. Now of the sannyasis, of the
renuciates, how generally dont move in the world of scholars Prakasananda Sarasvati
was the leader. Now these two leaders they agree so then we can understand that that
covers all. You dont have to give a third example. And if it applied to them you dont
have to worry that it doesnt apply now. There is no one who is more intelligent than
these men.
Devotee (1): What was their understanding?
Maharaja: They were both impersonalists. Because he gives the example that the
Mayavadis are different than the Vaisnavas, those these two impersonalists when they
heard Lord Caitanyas explanation of the vastu-traya then they understood their
relationship, they werent seeing them complete. The point is vastu-traya means you are
seeing the relationship between the living entity, God, the material energy, what is the
process and what you obtain afterwards.
Because you are always going to, when you are dealing with philosophy then you
would apply this cit, acit, isvara, your process and your result. So with these 5 you can
define very clearly a philosophy. They have their process for attaining liberation, and
after liberation there is no relationship between the Lord and the living entity because
they become one. In the beginning there may be a difference but that is only illusory. So
when Lord Caitanya explains how eternally there is these differences then they can see,

and within Bhagavan, within your goal you have Brahman, Paramatma and Bhagavan.
Then they can understand they have a partial understanding of the process. So if you
only want to get to Brahman then what they are talking about works, but higher than
that is Paramatma and higher than that is Bhagavan. So then their systems are limited
they are not complete.
So when you break it down into this then it is not just you are arguing points you are
arguing a system. The difficulty is to be able to understand what is a system. Because
otherwise, oh there is so many systems. No, there is one system and there is so many
applications of it. So that is what is being argued here is that this sambandha, abhidheya
and prayojana is different from this sambandha, abhidheya and prayojana so it is
different. No, we are saying it is one thing it is just different perspectives on it. There is
only the sambandha, abhidheya and prayojana.
Some may misunderstand or not have a full understanding of it so they only take it
to a certain level thats why then any thought, any action can be improved. Because you
can always take from it what the essence is then based on that sambandha, abhidheya
and prayojana take it to a higher level. This is very important for preaching. You
understand this you can preach. The more you understand it the more you can preach,
the less you understand it the less you can preach. People are unable to get anything
across to anybody because they dont understand this at all. They take the externals.
Means somebody is engaged in an activity, the guy is a dacoit and he is the head
dacoit of all his gang. And in the neighbourhood they are making trouble. So now we
start with this: you want to make this dacoit a devotee. What do you start with? if you
dont know what you are doing, oh all you are doing is wrong, you go to hell is that
going to resonate with this dacoit? What might be resonating is his gun after he has
pulled it out and shot you in the head. But other than that it might not be getting very
far.
The point is he wants to see authority being established. He wants to see proper
etiquette established. He wants to see that from that following of that there is profit and
result. Does that sound Vedic or not? Because by proper performance, proper
understanding of your position, proper performance of your duties in relation to others
position that dharma gives artha. Thats why they are getting a result because they are
the head of the gang, the others respect him, follows his orders and instruction, because
of that they are getting their results. Because what they are dealing with is very meagre
the results are also meagre. Or they may be great but they are temporary. They got lots of
money but they lose it very quickly. Someone else shoots down and steals it, or they
spend it because they dont have any value for the money.
The point is they are following the same principles that we are but they dont know
that they are doing it and their detail of it they are using it on such a low level but it is
still the same process, thats why it works. There is nothing that works in this world that
is not following the Vedic authority. Foolish persons try to claim that the Vedas dont
apply now but these foolish persons are uninformed. The Vedas always apply. So the idea
is to educate yourself so that you can actually see how the principles are always at work.

So now the point is you are authority but then the point is there are bigger gangs
than you, so there are bigger authorities, so you also have to be careful not to them. So
keep going, so then there is the one who why does all this work, why is it that my who
made the principle that might is there, who created might? So that is God. So He is the
Supreme authority. And this etiquette is there and that works in here. But if you expand
it that He is the Supreme authority that means also that you have etiquette in your gang
and between gangs but there is also etiquette between those who are not in gangs. So
they are also a group. Generally known as mushrooms so there is considerations there,
so you can take it beyond that there is other consideration.
These people also want to follow their authorities, make their profit. Your gang
wants to do, another gang, that is correct. But why not do in such a way that nobody is
disturbed? So you can slowly slowly start to elevate. They are offering respect to you you
protect them. And slowly you can introduce all these different qualities and the
connection with the Supreme Lord. So then you are able to elevate them. So then they
can be someone who could manage within the society, protect the devotees that are
undersee that Krsnas interests are maintained and be very dynamic about it. And they
would give up methods that would be inappropriate now for because the point is those
methods were detail, the principle is you are trying to affect something, you are trying to
get something done, you are trying to get a result so that all remains in place. But the
person doesnt lose any enthusiasm he just redirect it and how he thinks so it is still the
same principle it is not something different. They make it seem like
Mode of passion is to see that the souls are different, mode if ignorance you cant see
the soul. Mode of passion is there is Krsna and souls and there is Judaic souls and there is
Islamic souls and there is Buddhistic souls and like this. No. That is you are actually not
seeing things as they are. There is only one nature of the soul and it is the same. It
follows the same rules, the same principles. So if it is properly connected to the Lord
then you get the best result. As it is not connected to the Lord therefore it starts to get
less and less good result, more and more temporary result.
So this is the idea switching it, it is very close what they are saying, there is a
difference yes, but it is a difference in perspective on the same thing, not that by that
difference in perspective it is something different.
You have a government you have the liberals and the conservatives, so you see there
is such difference, no they are actually common ground because they both want to see
the prosperity of the same country, they are both using the political process, they are
both adhering to rules of etiquette and everything that goes along with that process. So it
is a detail how they are applying it.
So by that then you can bring about find the common point so that is what is
important, the Vaisnavas because of knowing the sambandha, abhidheya and prayojana
you start from where they are at. So that is then always a consideration. And you keep
coming back until it becomes broad enough that you can catch the whole picture. Then
from that having caught the whole picture then you know how to apply it to their
specific situation or other situations. If you cant see that then you will see that there is a
disagreement when there is not really a disagreement. That is synthesis.

Devotee (1): If in the philosophy you dont apply the sambandha, abhidheya and
prayojana then it is very difficult to apply philosophy in practical life
Maharaja: Yes. Thats why devotees have a difficulty. All the devotees basically are good
at philosophy, they are fixed in the philosophy but as far as applying it in their life some
are more successful and some have a lot of difficulty. In fact, they have so much difficulty
they have to split off their life from the philosophy. So they have their philosophy, their
devotional service, then they have their practical life.
Devotee (1): I heard some devotees say they live two lives
Maharaja: They do. Basically most devotees live two lives but they just either didnt
notice it or really dont want to address it because it is something very uncomfortable.
Because of their attachments they are living the two lives. They are attached to Krsna
consciousness, at the same time they are attached to material life. So then they are living
in duality which cant be very pleasing because duality is where all your pain, pleasure,
happiness and distress come. So the point is that thats why the Veda is there and thats
why it is so broad and deals with so much variety of activities. Thats why all the sastras
are there.
Like I was listening to one senior devotee making the point that the kama-sastra
cant be part of the Vedas because why would the Vedas talk about enjoying the senses.
Very nice. But their purpose is good that they want to see that the purity of the Veda is
maintained etc. But the misunderstanding is that they are not taking it far enough that
people are going to enjoy their senses anyway. So therefore there must be a regulation to
that so that they know how to enjoy their senses.
Like how do you know what is food unless the sastra explains what is food. How to
eat that food, what are the tastes of that food. So then you are actually able to engage
your sensual needs according to sastra. It may be very distant from direct devotional
service but still it is close enough because it is connecting it to there. Otherwise you live
two lifestyles which is even worse. So even though the intent is good that they are trying
to maintain the purity of devotional practices etc. but at the same time is in their
wanting to do that devotees are having to address things that the temple president and
the Bhagavatam class dont deal with.
They dont deal with quality time with your family. They absolutely ignore it like the
plague. So how do you deal with that? We are supposed to be giving everyone knowledge
how to every aspect of their life connect to Krsna. All we do is say just think of Krsna,
connect it to Krsna. That is nice. That is the theory. That is the thesis. But you have to
be able to give detail. So without the sambandha, abhidheya and prayojana you cant do
that.
So in simple ways it is easy, your food, you cook it, you connect it you offer it to
Krsna. Ok that is your food. What about your clothes, what about your shag rog on the
floor, what about your little flowers in the corner in that little vase that you picked up
when you were in Napoli, what about all that? So if you cant apply those principles those
things arent connected. You need them you have to have them so that means you have
needs in your life that have no way to be connected to Krsna and if anybody starts to

discuss it then that is maya. But that is the whole point, yes it is maya but it is your maya,
it is your lifestyle of maya. So how are you going to connect that to Krsna? So that is
what this science does. It is much broader then what it is being said to be.
The principle is coming down to what religion is termed as irreligion, what irreligion
is being presented as religion. So here they are trying to say the modern is very broad and
the Vedic is very narrow, it is actually quite the opposite. The Vedic can get into
anything, any subject matter can be discussed in the Vedic literature. Narada Muni, one
of his qualities that is considered respectable is that there is no subject matter he cannot
discuss, neither can discuss nor is willing to discuss. No subject matter disgusts him that
he wont discuss it. So he can discuss anything. Why? Because he knows the Vedas.
But you will find in modern man there is always a topic that they dont want to
discuss. There is always a limit to what they can discuss. So it sounds liberal, or it sounds
conservative but it is narrow in their scope. But the Vaisnavas is broad. That means it
includes all parties because you see the complete picture. It is just a matter of how expert
one is on how close in or how far back one is dealing with. In other words, how small of
the circles or how big of the circles.
Like you are dealing in astrology then you have the antadash, means what planet the
person is in. So you have the overall the maha-dash which is then the major planet that
he is in. Ok he is in Jupiter for 16 years but then within that that 16 years is divided into
9 planets, that is the anta-dash. Then take one of those parts that is divided into 9, that
is divided so down to 5 levels. So a good astrologer can look at it from any of these 5
levels and his expertise is he knows which level to be looking at for which interpretation,
for which understanding.
So the same for sambandha, abhidheya and prayojana you have a complete whole
there is God, there is His creation and there is His interaction with the creation. So
sambandha, abhidheya and prayojana. So that is as big as it gets. It doesnt really get
bigger than that. Then bringing it down to whatever is the situation that a particular
individual is in at the time.
The following is one of the verses spoken by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu to
Sarvabauma Bhattacarya:
bhagavnsambandha, bhaktiabhidheya haya premprayojana, vede
tina-vastu kaya
r Caitanya Mahprabhu continued, The Supreme Personality of Godhead is the
central point of all relationships, acting in devotional service to Him is ones real
occupation, and the attainment of love of Godhead is the ultimate goal of life. These
three subject matters are described in the Vedic literature. (CC Madhya 6.178)
So if you are understanding this means he is the central point of all relationships. So
any relationship you have He is the center of it. So therefore sambandha means the
relationship with God. You have others. Husband and wife but why is that relationship
there?

Means you look at it from one, there is rules that are there. Who gave those rules?
God gave the rules. So therefore He is the central point between the husband and wife
interacting.
Why is there such a thing as a conjugal rasa, why is there that kind of attraction and
need? Who created that? God. So therefore He is the center of that.
You are dealing with dead matter, you say it is husband and wife but what are you
dealing with, what was married? Were the souls married? No, the gross and subtle bodies
were married. So the gross body that is dead matter. So that we wont even bother with.
Then you have the subtle body which is the mind who created the mind? The husband,
the wife? No, God created it.
So the mind is the field of where the experiences are gained in any interaction. So
dead matter means dead matter and the mind has some perception of that and then calls
this happiness or distress. But where did this emotional platform come from. That has
also come from God. Therefore He is the center of it.
Then in that where does this experience come from? Well, you could say they created
it. But the point is you take two things a flint and another thing and you hit them
together you get sparks but where did that potency of sparks come from? You take two
bricks and do that you dont get sparksSo therefore the concept that this experience
could be gained by that thing because you cant do something else and get it. So you have
to follow the rules. So that means the experience itself that potency is also coming from
Krsna. So in what way is He not the center of all relationships? Can we actually find
something?
So this whole thing that there is this duality that I have another life doesnt actually
exist. Its an illusion. Thats the maya. The maya is that you think there is two lifestyles.
There is only one lifestyle. Just there is one lifestyle where you are aware of God
consciousness or where you are not aware, where you have knowledge or where you are
in ignorance. But otherwise it is one lifestyle and the same rules.
Devotee (2): That is based on sambandha-jnana?
Maharaja: Basically sambandha-jnana but also at the same time not understanding that
sambandha-jnana there abhidheya and prayojana. Because in sambandha-jnana when
you are dealing with it you are also going to be the principles of abhidheya and prayojana
are there within the concept of sambandha. But they are in their inherent state means it
is not active, potential state. Means you have God, the living entity and the material
energy that we are talking about is sambandha that we use here. So you have the living
entity and the goal of the living entity to achieve God, so that is inherent there. Then
how is he going to do this? What process does he use? Devotional service but what is the
observable entity that he uses in his devotional service
Devotee (2): This body.
Maharaja: Which is made out of?
Devotee (2): The five elements.
Maharaja: Which is a part of?

Devotee (2): Material energy

Maharaja: So cit, acit, isvara. So we are dealing within cit, acit, isvara you have the
potential of sambandha, abhidheya and prayojana. Because abhidheya and prayojana are
simply the manifestations of the concepts that are in sambandha.
So thats why you have the bigger picture, and you have the smaller. The macro and
the micro. Means within the major then you can take that and bring it up. Because the
abhidheya has a form that it works through and a situation that it is performed in. So
that will be the sambandha of the abhidheya. Then there is the actual action itself and
the action having been completed so that is your prayojana. But that will give you then
the major prayojana which is actually the result that was desired. So always you can
break it up.
Devotee (2): According to whats ones goal is then all the things will break up in this
sambandha, abhidheya, and prayojana, something will be in sambandha, abhidheya or
prayojana. But then it can also be in either.
Maharaja: Anything can go anywhere. Thats why it is important to understand what you
are looking at at the time so you know how to categorize it. That is the important thing.
One is being able to understand there is sambandha, abhidheya and prayojana. The next
is then being able to understand means if you are going to put them in this order then
what perspective does that create. Or from this perspective that will be this form of
sambandha, abhidheya and prayojana.
Let us say the kama-sastra is not bona fide because the Veda is pure and therefore we
are only performing proper activities so therefore it cant be there. So what perspective is
this? You are rejecting a portion of the Vedas. So it is a mix of atheism and Vaisnavism.
You are atheistic in that you are rejecting part of the Veda but your reason for doing that
was that you want to establish the Veda in its proper God consciousness. So in other
words you see the philosophy very nicely but you have no real understanding of the
culture. So that right there means your philosophy might be ok in that way of prayojana
where you are trying to get to but your sambandha is off and therefore your abhidheya is
going to be off. That means you are not actually going to be able to apply your
philosophy. Because we cant say it is philosophy so it is sambandha and put it on this
side. Because if your sambandha is right then you can get your goal right and your
abhidheya. But they are leaving something out here.
Now if we take it in another way. Lets say take it and reverse it. Take the same kind
of general area of this mentality but make a slight adjustment that would be using the
same basic form but it would drop the atheistic aspect and it would increase the Vaisnava
element and simplify it.
We only worry about Srimad-Bhagavatam. We are Vaisnavas we study Bhagavatam
that is all we need. Therefore dharma, artha, kama, moksa we dont really need those.
They are bona fide but we just chant Hare Krsna, we follow the Bhagavatam. So
therefore then that philosophy moves into here, so then our abhidheya is just practice
this simple straight-forward direct devotional service and the ultimate goal is that we get
love of God.

You are still in the same way not taking much consideration of dharma, artha and
kama but it is done in such a way that it is still devotion, it is still approved by the sastra.
So you are taking it from a higher level. But that means then that is your lifestyle.
Because your philosophy has to translate into a lifestyle which is your culture.
But you cant say we dont follow, kama-sastra is not proper because kama-sastra the
basis of it is the 64 arts of human interaction and then claim we dont wear Indian dress
and we can wear American dress. So dress is one of the 64 arts. To reject it on the one
side and accept it on the other that is inconsistent. So therefore thats why when you
make interpretation and speculation it will be inconsistent. Speculation always means it
never has a proper foundation. So thats why it is important to understand these in their
proper form then one is able to understand and to apply the philosophy because that is
time, place and circumstance, you have to get that right. You have the philosophy but
you have to apply it but without the sambandha, abhidheya and prayojana how do you
catch that?
Because you have time. Time is basically your sambandha, mood is your abhidheya.
Your accomplishment is your goal. We take time, place and circumstance. The time will
also be your sambandha. Your place will be your goal because that shows what
accomplishment you can get and then circumstance will be the mood, that is within that
place, so that will be your abhidheya. So you are still having to deal with the same
elements of sambandha, abhidheya and prayojana.
The whole idea is Lord Caitanyas philosophy or dasa-mula is based on this
sambandha, abhidheya and prayojana. If you understand that then you understand the
philosophy. You understand the application of that, the culture of it. You understand
how to connect dharma, artha, kama and moksa which are human needs to Krsna
consciousness. So therefore they become imbued with bhakti.
Devotee (1): There can be a time when Krsna is not in the center and the people are
themselves in the center
Maharaja: Yes, but that is called illusion. But it is not actually what is going on.
Devotee (1): Like speculation, speculation means it is our own interpretation, so we dont
accept authority, we are the authority so we are the isvara. So thats why we can be so
bold talking about something that is not even authoritative.
Maharaja: Yes, so it is false ego. Yes, that is the maya. The interpretation is then our false
ego. So we have to be careful is speculation is used in the Vaisnava, the process is
speculation but our approach to it or the mood of it is called contemplation. In other
words, sastra said this as authority I am seeing this how do I connect it to. Then I start to
mathematically put together different aspects until I get it right. So that is speculation.
But it is speculation based on authority for the purpose of understanding authority and
for supporting authority. It is not speculation that is separate from authority.
Like Prabhupada said this, no but then what about this and the modern is like that.
That speculation is not in supporting authority so that is useless. So that is what we are
calling interpretation. Because you are putting your own philosophy, you are putting
yourself in the center and you are moving it away from. But when it is the sastra said this

therefore I have to find how it applies so I try it this way and that way and so many ways,
that is then trying to apply time, place and circumstance to authority for the purpose of
establishing that authority. That then is not interpretation that is following the
parampara. So it seems it is the same. But the perspective is different.
Thats why the processes that we use and the impersonalists use of getting out of the
material world are the same. See yourself as not part of the material world, see
everything in connection with Brahman. But they see is they are Brahman. So that is
where it falls apart. And they only deal with certain elements as Brahman. If everything
is Brahman then grhastha life is also Brahman. But they wont deal with grhastha life as
Brahman. So only deal with as sannyasi with Brahman. So if everything is Brahman then
why is it that they are limited and what they deal with? Whatever it is there is cultural
reasons why one would get distracted whatever it is but it is just inferior.
But the Vaisnavas, everything is in connection, everything is Brahman because it has
all come from Krsna but we see Brahman as Krsna. So the Brahman is simply one of His
manifestations. It is not the superior, the superior is Bhagavan. So therefore we can see
Krsna in everything. And we see that we as the soul are separate from the material
world, using the same process, but we are just using it on a much more profound level,
much more deep level. So therefore our results are profound while theirs are temporary.
Something special but still temporary.
So it is not that, thats why Prabhupada that famous thing is you dont have to
change anything. You just have to change consciousness. You change the consciousness
then whatever you are doing is brought in line. Then as you purify yourself then you are
more interested in applying or connecting more pure states of existence in Krsnas
service rather than impure states. That will come naturally as you are connecting
everything to Krsna. Therefore the man is in his suit and he is a business man at some
big company. He doesnt have to change that to be a devotee. He just has to change the
consciousness.
Where does this knowledge of economics come and management, where does this
concept of money and all that come from? It is all Gods laws. He is following so that is
why it works. Those areas where he is getting bad results it is obvious you can see it is
because he is not applying Gods law. He is upsetting people, he is this and that. He is
getting the work done, but then he can find ways where he can get his work done and
not upset the people. But there are people that you cant help upset because they are
going to be upset anyway. But those who are at least honest those ones you consider
because these are Gods considerations. Those who are not honest you dont have to
consider other than are you going to be in a position to deal with them. So then the
whole thing whatever he is doing before then suddenly becomes God conscious concept.
So now he can continue that as a business person and add into, take up chanting,
associating with devotees, doing other varieties of service if that is favourable. If he finds
it at some point it is unfavourable it is taking too much time it is too burdensome his
particular sadhana doesnt work with it so then he may adjust that. But it has come as a
natural consequence of his devotional practices. Not that only when you change this
form then it will be Krsna conscious.

But that doesnt mean that unscrupulous people therefore they we dont have to
change the form therefore I dont have to dress or do anything like a devotee, thats ok
but your impetus to do that is not devotional it is atheistic, it is non-devotional. So
therefore at some point that would have to be given up, it has to be I dont care what Im
dressing in. It is not that it is on the Vaisnava platform it doesnt matter what dress you
wear, so this is favourable I am in the association of devotees I wear that. And when I am
in the association of karmis I wear that. It is just whatever it favourable. This is that Id
rather wear the karmi clothes. So therefore even if I am in a situation where I could wear
devotional clothes it would make others comfortable and all that I wont do it based on
the philosophy if I am out working with the karmis they are uncomfortable if I wear
devotional clothes. So the same principle is I dont want to make anyone uncomfortable
on the social platform therefore if I am in the association with devotees I wouldnt want
to make them uncomfortable therefore I should wear a dhoti but they dont. No, I am
attached to wearing karmi clothes therefore I use the philosophy to propose that on this
element of preaching in yukta-vairagya I am just doing something so it doesnt bother the
karmis. Thats ok but at midnight in Janmastami at the temple I dont think there is any
karmis there that they are going to be disturbed. So therefore one might need consider.
So there is a mundane aspect there. They are not taking it fully. So the motive behind it
is not pure. So you can tell the difference. (end of lecture) (end)
October 20, 2008
Maharaja:
Conclusion,
The vastu traya of the Vedas is the one explained by Caitanya Mahaprabhu. And this
understanding is gained when one follows the advice of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and
studies Vedas without interpretations.
Doubt:
How can we know that the vastu traya explained by Sriman Mahaprabhu is the ultimate
vastu traya of the Vedas.
Objection;
The words of the Vedas can be interpreted in many ways and according to ones
interpretation one will get different meanings from vedic texts.
Reply to the objections
The words of the Vedas can be interpret in two ways: direct or mukhya vritti, and
indirect, gauna vritti. If one interprets Vedas one comes to incorrect conclusions and if
one takes direct meaning then one comes to the
8
Vaisnava understanding of sambandha abhidheya and prayojana. Srila
Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura comments that mukhya-vrtti ("the direct meaning")
is abhidha-vrtti, or the meaning that one can understand immediately from the

statements of dictionaries, whereas gauna-vrtti ("the indirect meaning") is a meaning

that one imagines without consulting the dictionary. (Ref. VedaBase => Adi 7.110 )
another example: ..Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu continued, "The Brahma-sutra,
compiled by Srila Vyasadeva, is as radiant as the sun. One who tries to interpret its
meaning simply covers that sunshine with a cloud. ( Ref. VedaBase => Madhya 6.138)
nirnaya conclusion
It is therefore understood that if one properly interpreters Vedas according to their
direct meaning one will come to understanding that every branch of Vedic literatures
culminates in Vaisnava conclusion.
Also the Vedic means you have your direct, indirect and hidden. So every verse has
its direct meaning. So that should always be used. Based on that then you can refer to
indirect and hidden meanings. But one should not neglect the direct meaning and go to
indirect. Otherwise one ends up with the wrong conclusions.
Further Definition of Sambandha, Abhidheya and PrayoJana
Viaya- Thesis
Sambandha specifically refers to the relationship between the living entity, the world
and the supreme Lord. Knowldege of any of these topics is called samandha jnana.
Doubt,
In the Vedas not only relationship between cit or spiritual nature, acit or material nature
and isvara or God is described.
Sambandha means cit, acit and isvara. Cit meaning spiritual, acit meaning material,
and isvara meaning the Supreme Lord. So the jivas, the material energy and the Supreme
Lord. He is doubting that other relationships are also described in the Veda.
Objection,
For example in the Jyotisha sastra we find the description of relationship between the
man and nava grahas or nine planets controlling his karma.
It is not just relationship between the jiva and God but here is jiva and the nine
planets, the nava-grahas.
Reply to objections
If one looks at the intermediate relationship without taking it to the ultimate ones then
one may come to the conclusion that Vedas speak of many relationships. Nonetheless if
one extracts the essence of the Vedas as it is done in the Upanishads and Vedanta sutra
then one will see that ultimately Vedas speak about sambhanda in terms of cit, acit,
isvara.
Thats standard, that is the Upanisadic viewpoint cit, acit, isvara, then the process
that you will use because of this understanding and the goal that one can attain by
following that process. So the Upanisads will always end up with sambandha, abhidheya
and prayojana, with sambandha being these three. In the dasa-mula we have three
aspects about Godhead you can count that as one, you have three aspects of the living

entity that can also counted as one, then you have their relationship. You can take those
seven aspects of sambandha and bring them into three points. And of course since it is
the Upanisads that it is explaining it it is understood that it is coming from authority,
from sastra, so the amnaya is inferred here. So you still have all the different elements.
But it is just being brought into a precise form because some interpretations of the
Upanisads may not be able to fully appreciate all the different aspects of the jiva or of
the Supreme Lord.
Like Karma-mimamsa is taking it the living entity is always going to be in the
material world. So the natural liberated position isnt something that they will consider.
But that the soul is eternal that they will consider and then God is then kind of left out,
they take karma as the Supreme. So they dont see that the karma is being sanctioned by
Paramatma. So that is the point they are not taking it far enough. They only see the
externals therefore they say there is many relationships but actually if you go through
the process you see there is only Krsna.
In the Brihad Parasiara hora sastra we find a verse that the nava grahas are the
incarnations of the Paramatma or the Supreme peresonaliy of Godhead so in the
ultimate sense the relationship betweens a man and the nine planets refers to his
relationship with the supreme Isvara who through the medium of the nine planets
rewards the living entity according to the fruits of his Karma. So the ultimate meaning of
the relationship is the one which leads to ultimate conclusions and goals and as such
should be accepted above terminal or intermediate conclusions and understandings.
Means you see that it is between you and something of this world that you can
observe so you think it is something different but actually the potency of that is coming
from Krsna. Like all the nine planets they have their Deity, their potency is coming from
that planet. Means the sunplanet gets its potency from Lord Ramacandra, it is a
manifestation of Him. The moon from Krsna. Mars from Nrsimhadeva. Like this then all
the planets they all have a potency that is coming from Krsna.
So then one still understands it is still coming from there because that is the
ultimate. That is what the Upanisads are giving us.
For example the famous Upanisadic vakhya or great saying aham brahmasmi I am
not this body, I am spirit soul is instructing us in terms of cit category describing the
characteristics of the soul. The knowledge that the material universe is composed of 24
elements refers to acit category and knowledge describing the Supreme creator,
maintainer and destroyer of all that exists both spiritual (cit) and material (acit) is the
knowledge of Isvara category. These constitute sambandha jnana. Here are some verses
that are examples of sambandha jnana.
9
dehino 'smin yath dehe kaumra yauvana jar tath dehntara-prptir dhras
tatra na muhyati
As the embodied soul continuously passes, in this body, from boyhood to youth old
age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death. A sober person is not bewildered
by such a change.

apareyam itas tv any prakti viddhi me parm jva-bht mah-bho yayeda

dhryate jagat
Besides these, O mighty-armed Arjuna, there is another, superior energy of Mine,
which comprises the living entities who are exploiting the resources of this material,
inferior nature.(cit)
bhmir po 'nalo vyu kha mano buddhir eva ca ahakra itya me bhinn
praktir aadh
Earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligence and false egoall together these
eight constitute My separated material energies. (acit)
Give an example of isvara verse,.
Conclusion
By understanding the ultimate conclusions of the Vedas in regard to the understanding
of sambandha jnana, one will understand who they are, what is their relationship with
the world, as well as their relationship with the supreme lord.
So that clears the previous doubt, so this then generates a new doubt.
Doubt.
How can understanding of the relationship between cit, acit, isvara benefit anyone.
Objection;
There are many learned scholars who are well versed in the knowledge of sambhanda
jnana and still suffer the miseries of repeated birth and death and appear to be cover by
ignorance.
Reply to objection.
While it is a good observation it is not complete. In fact there are many learned scholars
who possess the knowledge of cid, acid, isvara and are not liberated. This is not due to
the imperfection on the part the sambhanda jnana but due to not applying that
knowledge in ones practical life. For example one maybe have perfect knowledge in
culinary field but unless one applies that knowledge in cooking one still suffers from
hunger and does not realize the taste of good food preparations.
Thus one has to engage in the activities which implement ones knowledge of cid,
acid, isvara. These activities are known as abhidheya tattva and refer to the process of
devotional service, which means activies like hearing, chanting and remembering
Krsnas glories. The 64 items of devotional service are all abhidheya tattva as explained
by Bhaktisiddhanta Sarsaswati Thakura:
After sambandha comes abhidheya ... and abhideyas are a good deal in
number. They are classed by some authorites as 64, by some as 9, and by some others as 5.
Though there are multifarious courses to adopt
10

by means of which we can love the All-love, the Absolute, these methods are
classified into 64 or 9 or 5 divisions. Of the 64 divisions, 5 are the principal ones, and
with these five divisions we are to deal. These are: (1) Bhagavata shravana, Bhagavata
kirtana, Bhagavata Smarana, (2) Shri Haris Anghri-Sevanam, (3) Mathuravasa, (4)
Satsanga, company of sadhus and (5) Shri Harinama Samkirtana. (Sarasvati, 1999, Shri
Caitanyas Teachings, p. 73)
So you have the 64 items and of them 5 are primary. And the 64 also describes in it
that one should perform the nine angas of bhakti. But as we see here is how the 5 are put
together that they also include these 9 angas.
The five most important items of Bhakti are found in CC. sdhu-saga, nmakrtana, bhgavata-ravaa mathur-vsa, r-mrtira raddhya sevana
One should associate with devotees, chant the holy name of the Lord, hear rmadBhgavatam, reside at Mathur and worship the Deity with faith and veneration. In fact
all 64 items of bhakti are present in the five primary items. Within 1. Bhagavata Sravan
are sravan, kirtana and visnu smaran. Within Murtira sevanam are included arcanam,
many of the 44 items relating to Deity worship, from 64 items.
There is ten items that one should do, there is ten items that one should avoid. And
the remaining 44 basically are all Deity worship. And then from that we see prominent
then these five are there. So they most all come into there anyway.
Within Mathuravasa and Vaisnava sevanam are included pada sevanam. And in
Nama Sankirtan are included dasyam, sakyam and atmanivedanam which are the moods
in which one engages in the preaching mission.
So we see the 5 expands into the 9. And the 5 also expands into the 64. It can be
described in any of these ways.
Here are some quotes from sastra that are examples of abhidheya topics:
satata krtayanto m yatanta ca dha-vrat namasyanta ca m bhakty nityayukt upsate
Always chanting My glories, endeavoring with great determination, bowing down
before Me, these great souls perpetually worship Me with devotion
man-man bhava mad-bhakto mad-yj m namaskuru mm evaiyasi satya te
pratijne priyo 'si me
Always think of Me, become My devotee, worship Me and offer your homage unto
Me. Thus you will come to Me without fail. I promise you this because you are My very
dear friend.
Conclusion;
Knowledge of sambhanda is complete and beneficial only when one engages in the
activities of abhidheya tattva.
You have the knowledge but it is only going to be useful to you if you apply it. So
apply then that becomes abhidheya. Because otherwise before the doubt was you have
this knowledge but still people are suffering so it depends upon how you apply it. You

have this knowledge, you apply it properly through devotional service then things start
to work very nicely. Otherwise then it can still be a problem.
Doubt.
How is it complete if it is only a part of Vastu-traya
How is sambandha complete?
Objection,
11
Part of something is incomplete and besides that we see from the example of bhrata
Maharja that although he had a knowledge of sambhanda jnana and was engaged in the
devotional service according to the principle of abhidheya tattva still in his next life he
had to be born as a deer.
Reply to the objection.
If a part of smething is complete in itself it is still considered complete, so the
constituents of vastu traya are complte in themselves since they constitute of all the
elements in their sphere. Nontheless if they taken separately without their implications
with other elements of vastu traya they do not bestow complete benefit. As in the
example of bhata maharaja he had knowledge of sambhanda jnana and him showing
compassion towards the young dear was in accordance with the principles of abhidheya
tattva. His only weakness was that in his desire to help the young dear he did not keep in
mind the principle of prayojana tattva and did not dedicate his acts for the pleasure of
the supreme lord. So in ones attempt to gain complete knowledge and realize the fruit of
it one has to take all the three elements of Vastu traya since they are inseparable.
Prayojana is the stage of love of Godhead. At this stage the devotee longs for nothing but
Krsna and experiences various symptoms of ecstasy as exhibited by Sri Caitanya
Mahaprabhu.
Here are some examples of verses that are prayojana tattva:
sna paryaann anan ayna prapiban bruvan nnusandhatta etnigovindaparirambhita
Prahlda Mahrja was always absorbed in thought of Ka. Thus, being always
embraced by the Lord, he did not know how his bodily necessities, such as sitting,
walking, eating, lying down, drinking and talking, were being automatically performed.
He was just so absorbed that it was just happening automatically, then these material
necessities they were just going on but he was not focusing on them. Like the child
doesnt actually know how he ended up being dressed and how he was fed, it just
happens. While he is trying to walk away his mother is trying to dress him or feed him.
So he is unaware of the actual how it works because he has other absorption.
So then in the same way the devotee is so absorbed in the Supreme Lord he doesnt
even really take note of how all the bodily necessities are taken care of. They happen but
it is not of great interest.

kvacid rudati vaikuha-cint-abala-cetana kvacid dhasati tac-cint-hlda udgyati

kvacit
Because of advancement in Ka consciousness, he sometimes cried, sometimes
laughed, sometimes expressed jubilation and sometimes sang loudly.
Conclusion
Person sincerely desiring perfection should take into consideration and keep in heart all
three aspects of vastu traya, by doing so he will certainly attain perfection. This can be
easily done by following the footsteps of the vaishanvas as there are three categories of
Vaisanva prayers that also relate to sambandha abhidheya and prayojana these are in
order of correspondence: dainyabodhika, samprarthanatmika, and lalasamayi.
Samprrthantmika or prayer with wholehearted submission of mind, body, and
everything to the Lord. An example of samprthantmika is given in the Bhaktirasmta-sindhu, 1.2.153 as follows:
yuvatnam yath yni ynca yuvatau yath mano bhiramate tad van mano
bhiramatm tvayi
O my Lord! As the minds of young boys and girls remain attached to one another,
please let my mind be attached to You.
12
Dainyabodhik or making known ones insignificance and worthlessness. In the
Bhakti-rasmta-sindhu, 1.2.154 it is cited as follows:
mat-tulyo nsti pptm npardh ca kacana parihre pi lajj me ki vruve
puruottama
O Puruottama! In this world, there is no sinner and offender like me. Even though
You are an ocean of causeless mercy, I am ashamed even to request You to forgive my
offenses. What more shall I say?
Lalasmay or an intense yearning for the personal service of the Lord. This is
further stated as follows in the Bhakti-rasmta-sindhu, 1.2.156:
kadha yamun-tre nmni tava krtayan udvspa puarkka! racayiymi
tavam
O Puarkka (lotus-eyed Lord)! When, upon the bank of the Yamun, with eyes
brimming with tears of ecstasy and voice choked up with divine spiritual emotion, will I
chant Your holy names and dance like a madman?
Doubt
What is perfection for one person may be the imperfection for another.
Objection,
For the followers of Kanda Purva Mimamsa perfection is to elevate themselves to the
heavenly planets in order to enjoy material happiness. Whereas for the followers of

Sankaracarya school of Uttara Mimamsa is to give up all material enjoyments and

liberate themselves form material sphere.
Reply to objection,
Ultimately one has to take into consideration that there are two paths for spiritual
realization they are known as ascending and descending processes. Thus for those
following the ascending path their vastu tray will be different according to their
individual realization and spiritual advancement thus we see many different schools of
Vedic philosophy with different vastu traya. On the other hand those following the
descending path accept the vastu traya given by the Vedas themselves and follow it in
order to obtain perfection.
Conclusion
The duality of perfect and imperfect is a concept born out of mind conditioned by
material concepts such as ones identification with birth place, family traditions, culture
etc. If one takes up the descending path one will elevate oneself to the platform which is
above materially conditioned mind and free oneself from all apparent contradictions.
All these different schools come up, this is because they have different motives. And
because of these different motives then they will interpret the Veda differently. So
apparently they are coming up with different concepts of sambandha, abhidheya and
prayojana but these are because of their indirect interpretation. By the direct then one
would come to the conclusion of pure unalloyed devotion to the Supreme Personality of
Godhead. But these different schools come up because of their material desires so then
they are imperfect in their interpretation.
So the idea is that if you hear from authority coming down in parampara one will not
have this problem of these mistakes.Therefore we see what comes down in the Vaisnava
sampradayas is perfect. But what comes down in these other lines or what people create
themselves will always be short to, will always be imperfect.
Process for receiving pure Vastu traya,
Viaya- Thesis
Knowledge of Sambandha, Abhidheya and Prayojana is received from the Spiritual
Master.
Doubt,
It is a common practice in Vedic circles to receive diksa or initiation but still they all
have different vastu trayas.
13
Objections, There are many gurus and they initiate their disciples into various vastu
trayas. So it appears that initiation itself is not the only condition for receiving ultimate
vastu traya spoken about by Sri Caitanya.
Replay to objection

As the Vedas are very vast, covering a wide range of topics, persons following Vedic
teachings may easily become confused about the Vedas essential and ultimate teachings.
Thus some people think enjoyment is the prayojana, others think liberation is the
prayojana, while others think the attainment of mystic powers or siddhis is the
prayojana.
The Six systems of Vedic philosophy as they are known today are different
misunderstandings of sambandha, abhidheya and prayojana. Their original and pure
form can be found in the Srimad Bhagavatam.
You receive this understanding of vastu-traya from the spiritual master, so that is the
proper way. But then the objection is brought up that there are so many spiritual masters
and you are getting so many actual understandings of vastu-traya. So now he is going to
introduce that there are six systems of this, the Vedic systems, and then from this you get
so many derivatives.
So it doesnt seem to be enough that the initiation process is there, one has to be see
what is behind it, what is the purpose of it. It is a valid point. But it will be shown that
still it is coming from spiritual master, what is your definition of spiritual master, what is
the proper understanding. Because we are not taking something that is improper to be
there, one has to have this understanding.
Like we see in it we have even in our own where the spiritual master is giving up the
Bhagavata aspect of initiation, you have the pancaratrika and then there is the Vedic. So
what we call diksa means the Bhagavata and pancaratrika. The Vedic isnt actually
important for us as Gaudiya-Vaisnavas but that has been added by Bhaktisiddhanta
Sarasvati Thakura into everybodys. But it is actually a different process. Upanayana is a
different process. It is the Vedic process. Means you are connected now you can study
the sastras. But it is not technically when you are following the process of Bhagavata or
pancaratrika an entrance into that. That is why it is called upanayanam, to bring near. It
doesnt mean that you bring near but it doesnt mean that you are properly connected.
Therefore thats why the pancaratrika system of initiation, the Bhagavata, where then
one takes the spiritual initiation.
Upanayanam is for the support of spiritual but it itself is not specifically by our
definition spiritual. It is a different process. It is part of the process of learning, of
studying. Thats why the students would get the upanayana. Then from there as they
spiritually mature then they would take diksa from the spiritual master. But this only
works when you are dealing with the Vedic lifestyle because these mantras only work if
one is following a sattvic lifestyle. If one doesnt have the qualities then they dont
function. It is not like the holy name despite your qualification or disqualification it still
works. Just if you are more qualified it works better. You are less qualified it works less
better. The Vedic mantras then you are qualified it works, you are not qualified it doesnt
work.
So therefore the mantra is such that if there is qualities of the material qualities like
we discussed in the maha-bharata you have those good qualities that Yudhisthira is
talking about then that sets you up for using those qualities in devotional service. But the
point is a human being functions on good qualities. So the upanayan is for that purpose.

Developing those qualities one who shows the serious potential because they have to be
able to maintain them. Then it helps there.
But engaging those qualities in devotional service that is another question. Because
the piety is situated between devotion and sin. So it has the mentality of sin but the
activity or qualities of devotion. Thats why it is in its own category. So real piety is
things that are done for Krsna. And real sin is what is not done for Krsna. That is the
real definition. But in analyzing it so we can understand between the material and the
spiritual then you have sinful, pious and devotional.
So the pious situation is a very good situation because the pious elements are
elements of devotional service. They are elements of the character and lifestyle of those
who live in the spiritual world. But what really makes the residents of the spiritual world
residents of the spiritual world is their mentality of devotion. While what makes the
people of the material world residents of the material world are the sinful mentality.
Because someone who is pious they still stay in the material world, they dont go back to
Godhead because the quality is still not right.
So what you are trying to get is the proper culture and the proper mentality. So that
means the proper culture, the performance of your duties with devotion. That is the most
powerful. That is the best situation. So thats why it has always been described is how to
deal with that, how to bring about so that proper cultivation develops these qualities, so
that is its piety. In other words, the pious person gets the upanayana, not the impious.
But it is the spiritual person who gets diksa.
They may use the same term but we have to understand its been applied in three
different fields. Like someone who is a very excellent cook and they can cook so many
nice preparations according to a very nice particular cuisine. So you could call that that
is cooking. And then there is others who can put something together or you just do
something simple. So it is well-cooked but it is not like a full manifestation. And then
you go and buy yourself some 2 minute maggy noodles and then stick them into the
microwave. Technically it is being cooked but you dont call that cooking.
Therefore the Bhagavata that is initiation, the pancaratrika is this ekanayana its for
the Deity that is initiation, upanayanam is not initiation. Because what it does it
cultivates the good qualities that are useful to free yourself from material existence. But
unless those same qualities are used in devotion to the Lord they will not get you into the
spiritual world. Therefore they will not by us be considered initiation. So now you know
why you cant install Deities means the temple altars and worship the Deity. There is a
distinction.
In other words, it is something useful for education but it is not in our process of
worshiping the Deity. Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura established that for used by
the adults because technically an adult cannot get upanayana because they have already
passed the time. Everything has a time so they missed the time. But through the process
of chanting the holy name they become purified that they can take up the pancaratrika
process and then therefore have the good qualities necessary for the Vedic. So it is
through chanting that one gets it.

And the only reason he is throwing it in because it is not actually so important. He is

putting it in because then the common person who sees according to the social status and
that will accept the Vaisnavas as brahmanas. Because you dont want to deal with, even
you are being as mundane as you can get you dont want to identify a Vaisnava as
anything less than a brahmana. Because brahmana means one who is searching after
Brahman, who is situated in Brahman. So for the more mundane then Brahman may be
just the brahmajyoti. But we understand Brahman meaning the Supreme Brahman or
Krsna. So one who is situated in Krsna consciousness that is a real brahmana. So
minimum they are accepted in that way.
Because otherwise before those who were in families they went through the
upanayana process as their family tradition they would get it and they would wear a
thread. But those who didnt didnt. It didnt matter. You just didnt care. So those who
are like Srinivasacarya you see him he is wearing a thread but Narottama dasa Thakura is
not because he didnt get upanayana. But they both have pancaratrika diksa.
Because the thread goes with the Brahma-gayatri, it doesnt go with the pancaratrika.
Because you dont need the thread to chant the Gayatri. The thread shows that this is
somebody that has a particular qualification, a particular minimum qualification. It is not
a tool for chanting.
Devotee (1): Devotees that take upanayana and devotees that take Pancaratra initiation
they will look the same?
Maharaja: They will look the same.
Devotee (1): But the mentality will be different?
Maharaja: Yes, because the upanayana means he is coming close to getting spiritual but it
doesnt mean that he has made it. As we see many they take up the process and as long as
they are in following the process here then it works then they have those qualities. But
as soon as they leave this process and go elsewhere within a few weeks then they just
become another face in the crowd. Of course, out of ego they keep the thread this and
that but they dont practice they dont do and you can see easily that they dont have the
qualification.
Thats why traditionally it is something of the Vedic gurukula environment and then
from that then they go on to practice it. Those who practice it they would be properly
situated. Those who dont practice it that is considered a fallen state. So the idea is to get
from that to initiation. The upanayana is not enough. Not in this age, people dont have
the qualification, they dont have the adhikara through that to perfect their life. So it is
through the Pancaratra that they do better. But Pancaratra only works in this age
because of the Bhagavata. So ultimately it is the Bhagavata, it is how well they chant,
how much they are committed to chanting the holy name. That is what actually defines
their advancement. Not how well they do puja, worship or yajna or this or that, that is all
part of the pancaratrika element but it is more that devotion, the chanting and
association of Vaisnavas that actually defines it.
Someone who can associate well with devotees they are more advanced. Someone
who cant associate well with the devotees they are less advanced. So someone who gets

bigger and who feels they are more in charge and therefore feels they are more advanced
but cant get along with others actually is notadvanced, they are older, they are bigger,
yes, that is there. So there is some respect that is due but spiritual that is another topic.
They shouldnt mix the two topics.
The Six systems of Vedic philosophy as they are known today are different
misunderstandings of sambandha, abhidheya and prayojana. Their original and pure
form can be found in the Srimad Bhagavatam.
Of the six systems, means you can classify as all six are bogus, or you can classify as
one is proper and five are bogus. It just depends upon who you count as Uttara-mimamsa.
If you are counting Sankara then six are bogus, and Vyasadeva then as is in the proper
situation. So sometimes you hear about the Vedanta is in the proper category and the
other five are not. And sometimes you hear that all six are bogus. Because Sankara also
uses Vyasas school, the Vedanta, but he misinterprets it as impersonalism rather than as
Vaisnavism.
The only exception is Srila Vyasadeva gives the pure understanding in his Vedanta
Sutra. It is because he has received his knowledge from a bona fide spiritual master in a
disiplic succession. Later on even his words were misinterpreted by Sankara Acarya as
Mayavada because Sankara didnt receive his knowledge from a spiritual master coming
down from Srila Vyasadeva. It is therefore essential to receive knowledge of sambandha,
abhidheya and prayojana from a spiritual master in one of the four Vaisnava
sampradayas, who actually knows the conclusions of Vedic teachings.
Even so, even in different vasianva sampradayas there are different prayojans or
desired relationships with Krsna and thus the sadhana in each sampradaya varies. In the
Sri Sampradaya, the prayojana is svarupya mukti and so the sadhana is to serve Lord
Narayana in awe and veneration. In the Visnu Swami sampradaya, the prayojana is to
serve Bala Gopala in parental rasa and so the sadhana is centered around the worship of
Bala Gopala. In the sampradaya of Srila Rupa Goswami, the formost disciple of Sri
Caitanya Mahaprabhu, the prayojana is pure un-alloyed service to Krsna and so the
sadhana is to serve Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu by serving His sankirtana mission and
hearing and chanting the glories of Sri Sri Radha Krsna in Vrndavana as Lord Caitanya
did. The position of the spiritual master is that he instructs the disciple first in
sambandha jnana, to remind him of his relationship with Krsna, and then in abhidheya
and prayojana tattvas to properly establish him in the process of devotional service and
fix him on the goal of love of God.
First is sambandha-jnana, you have to know who Krsna is, who you are and what this
material world is, whats the relationship. Having understood that then you can start
with devotional service, you can take up the devotional service understanding that the
goal is to develop love for Godhead. That will work. Because if you dont know who you
are then it doesnt work. So before that you engage people in devotional service but that
is called ajnata-sukrti. They are doing devotion but they dont know what it is because
they dont know who God is, who they are, whats going on. But they are doing
devotional activities. People come up, they pull the rope at Ratha-yatra, they take

prasada, so it is devotional activities but because they dont know it is devotional

activities it is ajnata-sukrti.
Thats why when you distribute prasada if you distribute prasada that this is Hare
Krsna prasada it is offered to God then they know it is devotional service so they get that
benefit. If its just you are just distributing food to the poor and trying to help out it is
prasada but the people taking it dont know it is prasada, dont know it is service, so all
they get is ajnata-sukrti. Taking enough of that prasada is ajnata-sukrti, one day they
may come in contact nicely with the devotees and take up the devotional process. In
other words, the more it can be known the better. So this distinction between ajnatasukrti, in other words it is piety that is connected to Krsna but it is unknown piety. All
they know it is a good activity.
Devotee (2): You tell something to chant Hare Krsna and he does it without explanation
Maharaja: That is ajnata-sukrti. But the point is by that when it increases enough then it
brings one to the platform of sraddha. Thats why one is always trying to benefit or
generate this ajnata-sukrti for people. When you go down the street in your dhoti then
people will say, oh Hare Krsna and this and that. We are feeling uncomfortable and this
and that but the people are getting ajnata-sukrti. But otherwise what happens is it
doesnt. So now when they see us walking down the street they think we are Buddhists.
So there is not even ajnata-sukrti for that. And we will call this preaching. That is the
best part. Just fitting in and not trying to disturb anybody. And so we are not disturbing
anybody they are all becoming Buddhists. Because it would be a disturbance if actually
brought them in contact with Krsna and ruin their material prospects. While you can be
a Buddhist and still be a gross materialist. Just a nice gross materialist.
Devotee (3): If devotees are doing service and they are not conscious is that ajnatasukrti?
Maharaja: No, it is still devotional service because they know it is devotional service,
they are just not conscious at the time so the benefit from it will be less. The more
conscious you are the more benefit is there. But they are sampradaic, they have
connected themselves. So therefore it is devotional service.
Those who know it is devotional service, how to connect themselves are getting
benefit but they are still not sampradaic, they are still just general devotees. Thats why
children born in devotee family are still general devotees. When they take initiation and
follow the process seriously then they are sampradaic.
Because otherwise if people are born in devotee families, pious families like that, be
engaged in devotional service but they may not be so strict or they do the activities
nicely but dont know the philosophy, or know the philosophy but dont do the activities,
or know both but choose to do something else. They are devotees but itsso its beyond
ajnata-sukrti. But the difficulty is because of the lack of focus or determination they may
not bring it to the sampradaic stage very quickly. The sampradaic stage that is where
Krsna takes you seriously.
Because the point is one may say but they are devotees why are you making a
distinction? The point is they were devotees in the last life, they didnt make it so they

came back this life. So the point is it is dynamic when one is connected to the
sampradaya. If one is in the association of those who are sampradaic that is also very
good, that is the process. But it is still when one makes that personal commitment that it
becomes real. At the same time is then we know that those persons are meant to become
sampradaic devotees because they didnt perfect themselves in their last life as one.
Devotee (2): Does the term Vaisnava means sampradayaic?
Maharaja: No, Vaisnava means one who accepts Visnu. Therefore they may be
sampradaic or not. That is just one division so that you know who is more serious and
who is not, so to distinguish here, so that you can distinguish between ajnata-sukrti,
devotional service is known but not so seriously committed, and committed which may
be more conscious or less conscious. So you have all these different stages. (end of
lecture) (end)
October 21, 2008
Maharaja: A point was that sambandha, abhidheya and prayojana is received from the
spiritual master. And a doubt comes up that different spiritual masters they give
different ideas of what this sambandha, abhidheya and prayojana is. They get different
ideas of what is sambandha, abhidheya and prayojana and they are also initiated in their
lines and everything. So then it appears that this vastu-traya that is explained by
Caitanya Mahaprabhu initiation is not enough. So reply to the objection.
As the Vedas are very vast, covering a wide range of topics, persons following Vedic
teachings may easily become confused about the Vedas essential and ultimate teachings.
Thus some people think enjoyment is the prayojana, others think liberation is the
prayojana, while others think the attainment of mystic powers or siddhis is the
prayojana.
The Six systems of Vedic philosophy as they are known today are different
misunderstandings of sambandha, abhidheya and prayojana. Their original and pure
form can be found in the Srimad Bhagavatam.
The only exception [means of those who have misunderstandings] is Srila Vyasadeva
gives the pure understanding in his Vedanta Sutra. It is because he has received his
knowledge from a bona fide spiritual master in a disiplic succession. Later on even his
words were misinterpreted by Sankara Acarya as Mayavada because Sankara didnt
receive his knowledge from a spiritual master coming down from Srila Vyasadeva. It is
therefore essential to receive knowledge of sambandha, abhidheya and prayojana from a
spiritual master in one of the four Vaisnava sampradayas, who actually knows the
conclusions of Vedic teachings.
Even so, even in different vasianva sampradayas there are different prayojans or
desired relationships with Krsna and thus the sadhana in each sampradaya varies. In the
Sri Sampradaya, the prayojana is svarupya mukti and so the sadhana is to serve Lord
Narayana in awe and veneration. In the Visnu Swami sampradaya, the prayojana is to
serve Bala Gopala in parental rasa and so the sadhana is centered around the worship of
Bala Gopala. In the sampradaya of Srila Rupa Goswami, the formost disciple of Sri

Caitanya Mahaprabhu, the prayojana is pure un-alloyed service to Krsna and so the
sadhana is to serve Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu by serving His sankirtana mission and
hearing and chanting the glories of Sri Sri Radha Krsna in Vrndavana as Lord Caitanya
did. The position of the spiritual master is that he instructs the disciple first in
sambandha jnana, to remind him of his relationship with Krsna, and then in abhidheya
and prayojana tattvas to properly establish him in the process of devotional service and
fix him on the goal of love of God.
Thus the two roles of the spiritual master are as diksa and siksa-guru. The diksa-guru
reestablishes the disciple in his relationship with Krsna by imparting sambandha jnana.
This entails giving the disciple spiritual initiation which has 5 aspects called panca
samskara1.
tapah pundram tatha nama mantro yagas ca pancamah ami hi panca-samskarah
paramaikanti-hetavah
1 one may refer to Baladeva Vidyabhusanas Prameya Ratnavali 8.5 and 8.6
First is establishing sambandha-jnana so you know who you are. This is why we say
this is the process. First you know who you are, then you can know everybody else. You
know who you are, who God is, what the material nature is. That then you know what
your process and goal is. Because if you dont know who you are then you dont know
what goals you can achieve. Then from that you need to know the process to achieve
them. So that is the first thing we deal with. All three are done but sambandha-jnana is
the first body of knowledge. That is what has to be given first.
So then with that you can understand everything. So even in dealing in other
subjects, you deal with the social system, varnasrama, you have to first know who you are,
then what is your relationship with Godhead and then who everybody else is and your
relationships with them and how that is connected to Godhead. So you always still end
up with these three.
But when sambandha, abhidheya and prayojana here means the sambandha-jnana
you are dealing with cit, acit, isvara so we understand acit the material world how it
functions. So the nature of the soul the nature of the material world is different from
that. So we are looking at the philosophical, when you go to apply it then that acit will
become the acit will become the elements of the Vedic literatures, they are not the
Vedanta.
So you are learning Ayurveda. So then that is about how this material world
functions in relationship to the health of the body and mind, so that is the acit. Still you
have to know to follow Ayurveda nicely who you are as cit, who isvara is, what your
relationship is and why this acit is important. And what is your relationship with that
acit in relationship to the Supreme Lord and what is the Lords relationship with this
acit.
Then you actually understand the Ayurveda. Otherwise you dont. It is not just
medicine. That is for the ignorant. The Ayurveda should be a method of elevating you
like everything else but it is dealing with the conditioned nature. Thats his focus. But its
purpose is the same as the para-vidya, or the transcendental knowledge. All the apara-

vidya is for the same purpose, just it is addressing the conditioned need of the living
entity. So they can elevate themselves. So it is the same thing.
You have Sanskrit. Therefore there is still you, there is still God, and then there is
the Sanskrit. You are still going to end up with these three. So now since you are a
devotee of God therefore the Sanskrit is going to be some connection with
understanding God. Therefore you can understand the sastra.
Communication is there. So how are you going to communicate? You are going to
communicate in such a way that the conditioned nature is taken care of, is engaged
properly in the Lords service. And you are going to also use it directly to communicate
with the Lord to show your surrender and affection.
So in any case you are always going to have these three. Then your process is then
using the grammar in such a way to praise Krsna and to interact with the devotees so
that one can communicate properly in Krsna consciousness. So it is going to be like that
with everything.
So that is what the evening course is for. One is establishing very nicely this
philosophy, the essential points, then youll understand it in relationship to all the
aspects of the Vedic literature. In other words, youll very nicely see how the acit works
in connection with Krsna.
So then it says here spiritual master diksa and siksa, so the essence of diksa is the
instruction. That doesnt mean that there is not a diksa process. It means that the life of
it what makes diksa work is the siksa. In other words, giving initiation so that you can
properly give instruction and it will be received well and you can comfortably give it
without worrying that is called diksa. Technically if you have to worry that if you give
instruction the disciple will not be able to accept it or use it then you dont give diksa. If
you cant accept that this direction being given is thereforethis direction therefore is
coming from the spiritual master you cant accept that that is not your spiritual master.
Because the point is soul is pure so that is not the problem. The instructions are
good. So now you are dealing with the conditioned nature of the living entity. What
conditioned nature is compatible with what kind of instruction the spiritual master is
giving. So then that is how you make that connection, that bond. Then it works very
well.
So now he gives here these aspects of the panca-samskara, the fives aspects of
initiation, panca-samskara.
These are: 1. tapa represented by neckbeads which symbolize rejecting the material
world and unfavorable activities related to it such as meat eating, gambling, intoxication
and illicit sex and accepting favorable activites such as cleanliness, rising early etc,
Strange, Bhaktivinoda Thakura used meat-eating, gambling, intoxication, illicit sex.
So now you have pushed the threshold back that it is not Prabhupada who made this up
just to harass the Westerners. Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura also expected it. Now
here we see even Bhaktivinoda Thakura throwing this lock in with this Vedic concept.

Tapa means fire, burning. So you understand the material world is a place of misery,
it is a place of, because of the nature of burning of the material desire and being
unfulfilled in that then there is always that anxiety. So that is tapa. So you understand
that. So because of that you give up what is unfavourable. Give up the concept of the
material world and then those within it that one is attracted to or attached to and taking
up and balancing that with those things that are favourable. The unfavourable thing is
replaced with something favourable.
You give up meat-eating, you replace it with nice prasada. So everything is replaced.
Illicit sex, proper family life. Intoxication, absorbing yourself in the nice activities of
Krsna consciousness which give an inspiration, which actually give enlightenment, so it
is the opposite of ignorance. Gambling, so now you know exactly what is going on, you
can be secure. You have the knowledge, you have the practices, so there is no gamble,
there is no insecurity or uncertainty. So it is always replaced by something. You dont
replace that is a problem. So now someone having accepted that tapa, then is:
2. urdhvapundara upward pointing tilaka which establishes the goal of loving
service in the spiritual sky the upward leading path of devotional service,
If you are giving up the material world you got to accept something so therefore you
take the upward path to the spiritual world therefore it is urdhvapundara. Tilak is
pundara, so it can be any kind. But we use the urdhva-pundara, means it is going up.
That signifies that you are taking the upward path to Visnu, to Visnus lotus feet. We see
the Mayavadis and the smartas and all them, they use the Saiva-pundara. So that is
across this way, that is the material world, bhur bhuvah svah, so they stay here. They are
into being here, get some benefit from being here.They dont get out of, they dont take
the upward path.
Devotee (1): Sometimes in Krsnas pastimes of Krsna who has got has urdhva-pundara.
Maharaja: He always has urdhva-pundara. It is His tilak. Thats why we wear it.
Devotee (2): What does the Tulasi signify?
Maharaja: I give you one guess.
Devotee (2): Tulasi.
Maharaja: Very smart, very deep intellectual man here.
Tulasi cant signify Tulasi? In the kitchen here I have this potato, what does this
potato signify? If you are also taking the tilak can also be signifying the Lords lotus feet
so then tulasi is always at the Lords lotus feet. That way also it works very nicely.
Another way of taking it is that in the tilak the Lord resides there. When you chant
the mantra and you clear the space then the Lord can reside there. You dont clear the
space its hard to live there. So then that is like a temple. But the form is upside down so
what we call the tulasi that is also the sikha on the temple. You have a temple there is
always a dome. So like that there can be so many explanations.
Devotee (1): Is there a reason why Krsna likes this particular form?

Maharaja: Why did He like two eyes instead of four? Why ears, why not horns sticking
out? Why a nose, why two nostrils and not one? It is just the way He likes it. Means that
is enough. Krsna likes it that is enough. There maybe some because of this then generally
there is some pastimes in the material world where there is an explanation of it.
Like He always has Sudarsana but then there is a pastime in which he gets sudarsana.
He always has but then He receives these things. In there there is an explanation why
this is, it is nice it looks good. Nose goes down this way, you have something going that
way, eyes go out that way, so nice balance. Eyes this way then the mouth this way, it
works. It seems to be ok, no one is complaining.
3. nama - a spiritual name which establishes the disciples eternal identity as a servant
of Krsna, chanting the Lords holy name a fixed
14
number of times daily,
This nama then means that you are identifying yourself as Krsnas servant and you
will chant the holy name. So it means both. This also then gives rise to how the
initiation is one process but it is by Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura divided into two,
two parts of the same process. Here we can see getting the neckbeads, wearing the tilak,
getting a name and taking up chanting the holy name, that is all part of this process.
4. mantra chanting of gayatri mantra in connection with worshiping the Deity
So that is the mantra, not nama. Otherwise you are saying you get the Hare Krsna
mantra, no, that is Gayatri mantra. Nama is the holy name.
and 5. yaga which is Deity worship and other related angas of bhakti.
So then one takes up the Deity worship and worships with these mantras. So we can
see one, two and three is what we call 1.Initiation, four and five is 2.Initiation. So we see
in there therefore this panca-samskara is pancaratrika. And we see that technically in
this that the upanayana doesnt include these. So it is another form. It is the Vedic form.
But the pancaratrika form and the Bhagavata form go very well together. Then the
Vedic can support that. So it doesnt stand on its own in this age. The pancaratrika also
we see its essential point is, central is the nama, identifying yourself as servant of Krsna
and chanting the holy name. Then you can worship the Deity. So it is not that the
worship stands on its own.
Devotee (2): Whats the fifth?
Maharaja: Yaga is the actual worship of the Deity.
Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura because you have those what is preliminary
activities, these premilimary activities purvascarya-vidhi, then that is activities done
before initiation. So one of the thing is understanding and studying, so one understands
the dasa-mula. Then one also practices sadhana, serving prasada, performing yajnas,
cleanliness, all these different activities. They prepare one for initiation. So all that is
being done.

Thats why if someone joins then there is a period of time that they practice Krsna
consciousness without initiation and that is called purvascarya-vidhi. Then first
initiation and second initiation, and then the process is complete. So technically
upanayanam is part of purvascarya-vidhi. So it is a purvascarya-vidhi for pancaratrika
initiation. It is not initiation itself. It is part of preliminaries to it. But it has been given
as a prominent element by Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura so that the devotee will
be accepted as minimum brahmanas. Better is that they accept, everyone accepts them as
Vaisnavas.
Thus established in his eternal relationship with Krsna, the disciple may practice the
process of devotional service abhidheya as instructed by the guru.
He has received the sambandha-jnana, he understands what it is, he is fixed nicely in
that. Then he receives initiation, then the abhidheya goes very dynamically. Before that
the process has been followed but now it becomes as we said sampradaic, so the Lord
takes you seriously. You have taken initiation so therefore then that is serious. But
abhidheya is going on anyway but he is giving this in a very also at this time he was not
splitting this.
Because generally what would happen is very sincere people would come out to find
the spiritual master. While with Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura kind of that had
become a little old-fashioned. People werent going out and seeking out a guru, so the
spiritual master had to go digging around in the gutters and sewers for disciples. So then
it that way then it was split to give it more time for purification.
As the disciple advances, the siksa-guru gives instructions on the more subtle aspects
of devotional service and finally on the platform of brahmabuta either directly or
indirectly reveals the disciples svarupa siddhi in the prayojana realm.
So now we have gone through all the different levels. So now he says the siksa-guru
then gives instructions on the more subtle aspects of devotional service. The diksa-guru
has established one in devotional service, he is giving you the sambandha-jnana, he is
giving you the process, he sees that it is going on properly. The siksa-guru is continuing
that instruction. That means that the diksa-guru needs to be your siksa-guru. Thats the
idea, the prominent siksa-guru is the diksa-guru. But in any case, even if it doesnt work
like that but the diksa-guru is the root, he gives that connection, that worship of the
Deity, that whole connection to the sampradaya. But siksa continues with ones spiritual
master, with other siksa-gurus. Then there is the etiquette between the spiritual masters.
There is the etiquette of the disciple also there. They dont step over the head of the
diksa-guru because they have someone else they want to take siksa from. It has to be
properly worked out.
So then this brings to the subtle aspects of devotional service. In other words, you are
getting into the subtle points of devotional service, the moods of devotional service, the
meta-physics or mechanics of how things are working, how to detach oneself from the
material world, attach oneself to Krsna. Then we see is, the platform of, he says finally on
the platform of brahma-bhuta, this is very important here. And finally on the platform of
brahma-bhuta, whats brahma-bhuta, whats that platform? Brahman realization. You

come to the liberated platform, you are no longer conditioned. You are free from
material conditioning.
Then he says either directly or indirectly reveals the disciples svarupa-siddhi in the
prayojana realm. He says prayojana realm. He gets sambandha-jnana, he performs
devotional service or abhidheya, he says in the prayojana realm. Sambandha-jnana it is
here right now, here and now you can understand that, the abhidheya is here and now,
the prayojana realm is another realm. So when you come to the brahma-bhuta platform
when you are liberated then at that time the spiritual master either himself or through
others, either directly or in such a way that you understand it he reveals who you are in
the spiritual world. Not before that.
So if you are not on brahma-bhuta and they are revealing this then you know there is
some problem going on here. It is not according to our line. Maybe other lines may follow
but this is Bhaktivinoda Thakura who has no problem talking about svarupa-siddhi.
Others generally avoid it. He has no problem talking about it. He has made it very clear
here: brahma-bhuta. So it doesnt apply that it is lower than that.
The diksa-guru who reveals sambandha jnana to the disciple is said to be the
representative of adi guru Lord Balarama, or Nityananda Prabhu. The siksa-guru may be
the representative of either Baladeva or Srimati Radharani.
So then Prabhupada has said that the spiritual master is coming in these two
categories. They are either representing Balarama or Radharani. So the thing is here he
is saying that is the diksa-guru and then there is the siksa-guru. Because Balarama is
establishing one in the process, its dharma. Balarama is who in the catur-vyuha?
Sankarsana. And what does Sankarsana do? He establishes the field, establishes dharma,
whats right, removes whats wrong. So thats there. So now depending upon what is your
particular taste of service then the siksa aspect then may be in line with Balarama or in
line with Srimati Radharani.
The diksa-guru is the siksa-guru. At the same time is they can be different people.
But the diksa-guru is the siksa-guru. Otherwise there is sometimes confusion on this and
people by using all these fancy words, siksa and diksa, try to take it off as something
different. But the point is the diksa-guru was a siksa-guru before he became a diksa-guru.
But he was the prominent siksa-guru, so he became therefore the diksa-guru and then the
siksa continues. It is not that once he becomes a diksa-guru he is no longer a siksa-guru.
He has added the siksa to the diksa because the siksa is actually the central point of
initiation, the instruction.
The point is diksa means now you are serious about the instruction, you can take the
instruction seriously. Because otherwise before that you may not you are not obligated,
you are still in the point of testing or understanding the spiritual master there. Means
basic etiquette is there but there is no obligation. But once the diksa is there you have to
follow. It is not a matter of you dont like. Thats why you dont choose a guru based on
because he smiles nicely or something. That is not enough.
Means it is the siksa, one is able to relate to the siksa, that works for you. That
working for you then that means that is the diksa-guru. If not, it is in support of that.

One may have so many siksa-gurus and so they all add something nice to your
development of Krsna consciousness. But the one who gives diksa he is always the
central of all the siksa-gurus being one himself.
Devotee (1): Brahma-bhuta is that when the disciple is 6/10 purified?
Maharaja: No, that is called nistha.
Devotee (1): At one point does brahma-bhuta come?
Maharaja: If you are taking purification then that would be up in your high nineties.
Because what you are dealing with then is subtle, there is no material contamination, so
you could even say it is 100%.
If you are dealing with, that 6/10 is in relationship to anartha-nivrtti. So when
anartha-nivrtti is 6/10, but now Rupa Goswami then we see in Nectar of Devotion that
he is taking means anartha-nivrtti is the stage in the process from sraddha to prema.
But anartha-nivrtti is also a stage where you can take where it is the gross things are out
of the way and so you are able to be steady in devotional service, that is the anarthanivrtti in the process from sraddha to prema. But the anartha-nivrtti meaning your overconditional consciousness now you can function in your constitutional consciousness
that is the one that is being talked about in relationship to raganuga-bhakti. Thats when
one can practice, actually practice raganuga. Before that it is an attitude, it is not a
practice.
Someone practices raganuga-sadhana in the conditioned state what does his
devotional service look like?
Devotee (1): It is the same as vaidhi.
Maharaja: It the same as vaidhi, in other words, the form of it is vaidhi-sadhana but the
mood may be raganuga-sadhana. So it is the same. All that has changed is the mood.
Thats the subtle aspects of devotional service. But now on the brahma-bhuta platform
you actually have your spiritual body so now you can follow in the footsteps of the
residents of Vrndavana and do the services they do, so raganuga. Their raga you anuga
that. So we can see the difference between the expression of anartha-nivrtti.
So that means one can take up the mood but you cant actually practice it until
brahma-bhuta. Because you need a spiritual form to practice it. But the mood of it you
can practice whenever it awakens.
So this distinction is important because otherwise some people will unnecessarily
drive the practice down into even below anartha-nivrtti in the lower stage below nistha
and claiming that that is raganuga but the point is as a prakrta-bhakta then the tendency
is one is too overwhelmed by ones material activities and so the quality of it wont be
very great. One may like to hear stories, everyone likes to hear stories, everyone likes to
hear stories about Krsna in Vrndavana and Krsna and the gopis. So it is not that that
makes you a raganuga-bhakta. Everybody likes that. So that is part of the process. Since
we are trying to get to that platform of Vraja-bhakti therefore that mood is appreciated
by anyone in that line anyway. But it is so small you dont count itthe kid first got up,
stood up for the first time, walked two steps, fell on his face. So that is potential. Now

that kid when he grows up may be an Olympic athlete and set a world record in running
but at that time you cant go that he is on that platform.
For devotees in conjugal rasa, the siksa-guru is a representative of Srimati Radharani.
For devotees in the other rasas, the siksa-guru is a representative of Sri Baladeva.
The other rasas, because the cit-potency takes care of the vatsalya, sakhya and dasya,
they are expanded from there. And then the sandhini expands the santa, that is also an
aspect of, that expands also from Balarama because He establishes the field, so both of
those. Thats why in the sambandha aspect you have both aspects because you have the
activity itself and you have the field, so the interest in that, so a specific detail of that
then is the conjugal, then that is taken by Srimati Radharani Herself.
So the siksa-guru represents one or the other, so if you want to know which one your
guru is, the point is what are you, so the point is until you are established nicely on these
platforms either the sublte aspects or on brahma-bhuta then dont worry about it. The
point is it is in Vrndavana so that is good enough. Because it wont mean anything to
you, you cant do anything with it.
Initially the relationship with the diksa-guru is most important, later the relationship
with the siksa-guru becomes prominent. It maybe that the diksa and siksa-guru are the
same person, even if they are different persons, they are to be honored equally, being
considered one, as they represent the one supreme personality of Godhead.
So this gets that balance there, not that now I am on this I dont deal with the other
and therefore I signify I am more advanced because I am dealing with the siksa-guru and
I am not dealing with the diksa-guru. This is all mundane concepts. They are nondifferent.
So dealing with the diksa-guru, he is saying it may be the same person, so that means
you are dealing with the diksa aspect, establishment in devotional service, getting your
sadhana and everything proper, learning the Deity worship, understanding the
fundamental philosophy and all these things, that is all the aspects of the diksa-guru. He
does all that. Siksa-guru then takes you to the subtler aspects of that, brings it to a higher
realm and then reveals your position in the spiritual world. It is the same person, he has
these two aspects. Or it may be two people.
Whether it is two or one they are supposed to be respected equally because they are
both representing the Supreme Lord. So then Krsna is being represented here. And
Krsna expands as Balarama and Srimati Radharani. So between the three of them they
take care of everything. Krsna is existence. So then from this existence you have the
activity and goal, so Balarama and Srimati Radharani.
Devotee (1): The guru revealing the svarupa-siddhi means he is giving you the service
there or you are already there he is telling you you are this? What does that mean
revealing?
Maharaja: It is like the father revealing to the son that he is going to be the head of this
company. When the father and son stand on the hill and the father puts the arm around
the shoulder of the son and says: son in the future all this will be yours. So that principle
is being reflected by this.

The point is that it says directly or indirectly, so it is not something you have to worry
about. It is something you know will happen. So it happens. So you get to that stage it
will be understood. Before that stage it wont make sense anyway. Because you will be
trying to fit it all into time and space. Do I have to work it into my day planer? What
day? What time of the day it is going to be revealed? I wouldnt want to have any
conflicting engagements at that time. When you hear stuff like that then the person
responds as the diksa-guru, thats the point.
It is essential that this sambandha, abhidheya and prayojana jnana is received from
an authentic spiritual master in parampara otherwise one will not properly understand
the meaning of the Vedic teachings and will not achieve the teachings highest benefit.
For example, one may think that he is a Vaisnava engaged in performing bhakti. But
if he has a mistaken idea of sambandha jnana and thinks that the jiva and Krsna are one,
then he may mistakenly think that prema the prayojana of bhakti means to merge with
Krsna like Radha. Thus he will employ the sadhana of hearing and chanting Krsnas
glories but the offensive mentality of thinking that he is a gopi, or even Sri Radha
herself. There are many such persons living in Vrndavana and Radha Kunda with this
mentality. Such offensive rascals will not only not achieve any benefit from this
mistaken understanding of shastra, but will be punished to suffer in hell for a very long
time. As Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura Prabhupada said to Srila Prabhupada
that, These people are not living in Radha-kunda. They are living in Naraka-kunda.-(
Srimad Bhagavatam clas 6.320-23- Gorakhpur, February 14.1971)
As another example, is one may again have mistaken idea of sambandha jnana
thinking that the jiva is Bhagavan and thus belive that the prayojana or perfection of
existence is sayujya mukti or merging with Brahman. Thus he will perform the sadhana
or renunciation, and possibly yoga to achieve this end and avoid hearing and chanting
about Krsna all together.
Conclusion,
Thus in order to receive a bona fide or pure vastu traya of the Veda as reviled by Sri
Caitanya Mahaprabhu one has to receive spiritual initiation from the guru who is
connected to a disciplic succession coming down form the adi guru Sri Krsna who is the
original author of the Vedic literatures. (end of lecture) (end)
October 23, 2008
Maharaja:
The Gayatri Mantras and the process of worship
Thesis
Veda means knowledge and Vedanta means the conclusion of knowledge. Vedanta and
all Vedic knowledge is composed of sambandha, abhidheya and prayojana.
Doubt

15
Besides vedic knowledge the gayatri manrtas are also used for spiritual elevation are
those also composed of vastu-trayi?
Objections,
Since the gayatri mantras are used for upasana or worship and meditation arent they
only part of abhidheya or process?
Replay to objection
The gayatri mantra is the most important and original vedic mantra. Regarding gayatri
mantra Lord Caitanya stated that since the essential teaching in of the Veda is
sambandha, abhidheya and prayojana, and as the Vedas expanded from the gayatri
mantra which is expanded from the syllable Aum. Therefore the essential meaning of
both the gayatri mantra and aum or om is sambandha, abhidheya and prayojana.
gyatrra arthe ei grantha-rambhana satya para-sambandha, dhmahi-sdhanaprayojana
In the beginning of rmad-Bhgavatam there is an explanation of the Brahmagyatr mantra. The Absolute Truth [satya param] indicates the relationship, and we
meditate [dhmahi] on Him indicates the execution of devotional service and the
ultimate goal of life.
Lord Caitanya taught that the syllable a refers to the supreme Lord, u refers to
the process of devotional service and m refers to the living entity.
Also you get a is Krsna, u is Srimati Radharani and m is the living entities, the jivas.
The activities that happen between Radha and Krsna are then supported by the living
entities. The living entities therefore become part of the abhidheya, the devotional
process. That situated them with the samvit, the actual process, the experience gained
from that process, the experience comes from the qualities.
You perform an activity, it is the qualities of the items you are working with that
therefore give the experience. So it is through actively applying or interacting with
qualities that you get experience. So thats then what is looked for in activity. So that is
the natural position of the living entity. So if the living entity isnt active, the living
entity doesnt have good qualities, the living entity is not acting for others benefit how
will they be an instrument in the application of rasa between Krsna and His devotees.
One needs to have all these things. One has to have the good qualities, one has to
apply those qualities and that application, that result you are not looking for yourself. It
is for someone elses benefit. You have to have the qualities, thats your austerity. It is not
being done for yourself, that is your sacrifice. Charity is if you get something that is used
for others, whatever benefits do come are used for others.
There are many gayatri mantras, the specific features of a gayatri mantra is its 8
syllable meter2 and that it contains the three words, vidmahi, dimahi and pracodayat.
Vidmahi refers to sambandha the relationship between the Lord and the living entity,

dimahi referes to abhidheya or the process of devotional service and pracodayat to

prayojana or the goal of love of God.
In the Gyatr mantras used in pacartrika worship, there are three stages of
meditation: sambandha (relationship), by acknowledgement (vid) of the Lord; abhidheya
(process), or worship (dh) of the Lord by which one can develop prema; and prayojana
(result), or prema, which impells the devotee (pracodayt) spontaneously to the Lord.
Conclusion
Thus the essential Vedic teachings of sambandha, abhidheya and prayojana are also
found within the gayatri and the aumkara.
2 Gaudiyas break up the mantra into 3 sections for sambhanda, abhidheya, and
prayojana multiplying the 8 syllables by the 3 sections equaling 24, whereas others break
it up into 4 padas of 6 syllables each
Lord Ka is worshiped by the Gyatr mantra, and the specific mantra by which
He is worshiped is called Kma-gyatr. Vedic literatures explain that that sound
vibration which can elevate one from mental concoction is called gyatr.... In Brahmasahit a nice description of the flute of Ka is given: "When Ka began to play on His
flute, the sound vibration entered into the ear of Brahm as the Vedic mantra o." This
o is composed of three letters-A, U, and M-and it describes our relationship with the
Supreme Lord, our activities by which we can achieve the highest perfection of love, and
the actual position of love on the spiritual platform.
16
When the sound vibration of Ka's flute is expressed through the mouth of Brahm,
it becomes Gyatr. Thus by being influenced by the sound vibration of Ka's flute,
Brahm, the supreme creature and first living entity of this material world, was initiated
as a brhmaa. That Brahm was initiated as a brhmaa by the flute of Ka is
confirmed by rla Jva Gosvm. When Brahm was enlightened by the Gyatr mantra
through Ka's flute, he attained all Vedic knowledge. Acknowledging the benediction
offered to him by Ka, he became the original spiritual master of all living entities
(Teachings of Lord Caitanya)
So we are working on this principle, we are saying the Vedas is based on this vastutrayi. So the Vedas have expanded from the Purusa-sukta, Purusa-sukta from the
Gayatri, and Gayatri from om. So if the om and Gayatri having all this then how will
that happen? So the vastu-trayi must be contained in om, it must be contained in the
Gayatri. Then we can see that the first letter is Krsna, then the goal prayojana is the m,
and the u is the method in between. So that we just discussed. So then the Gayatri also,
the first part is sambandha, the second part is abhidheya and the third part is prayojana.
So it is 8 syllables in 3 groups, each one is dealing like that.
Then we see also the Purusa-sukta then that the Lord is there, He is there His
position establishing His position as the same Lord as the Supreme Lord. Then the sages
through meditation, remember he was saying dhimahi is the abhidheya, through
meditation they perform a mental sacrifice and then through that the whole creation is
then established. So the Supreme Lord and His position, through the mental sacrifice of

the sages, then the primary creation is accomplished. So there also you get sambandha,
abhidheya and prayojana.
So we are talking about om is dealing with these subtle, the Gayatri is also with the
spiritual, the Purusa-sukta is dealing with how the spiritual and the matter are
interacting. And then the rest of the Veda will then describe very nicely how the
material nature then you can reverse the process, but how you can take the material
energy and properly through understanding of this vastu-trayi sambandha, abhidheya
and prayojana connect that back to Krsna. Because its come down from Krsna in this
vastu-trayi, the same thing it can take you back to Krsna.
Devotee (1): Only three of five Gayatris we get has vidmahi dimahi, all three of them?
Maharaja: And then some of them have pracodayat and some dont?
Devotee (1): No, vidmahi, dimahi and pracodayat have three of five, and one of them has
om in the beginning. And doesnt have dimahi.
Maharaja: They all have om. They all have a bij. So you are saying three out of five? So
these three are?
Devotee (1): Brahma and Gopala
Maharaja: They dont have? When was the last time you chanted the Brahma-gayatri?
Devotee (1): No, all three of them, vidmahi, dhimahi and pracodayat.
Maharaja: And you have a problem? The others are not Gayatris. The others are mulamantras that you use for worshipping the Deity. Because you need mula-mantras for
worshipping guru, Gaura and Krsna. And then you have the Gayatri mantras by which
you can then worship. So your Gayatri mantras are for worshipping the Deity. They are
also as stated here to control the mind, to bring it up, to elevate it, elevate from mental
concoction. So they bring you up from mental speculation to bring you where you actually
understand your relationship with the Lord otherwise you will not.
So those ones arent Gayatris. So Kama-gayatri has its mula-mantra. The Gauragayatri has its mula-mantra. And the Guru-gayatri has its mula-mantra.
Devotee (1): Here it says.
Maharaja: But how many Gayatris do you have?
Devotee (1): I was told five.
Maharaja: You were told five, then go and ask this question to the person that told you
that.
Devotee (1): So I have four.
Maharaja: Yes. You have four Gayatris and three mula-mantras.
Devotee (1): So Gopala is mula-mantra?
Maharaja: Yes. It is called Gopala-mantra. It is not called a Gayatri. It is not Gopalagayatri. It is Gopala-mantra, it is Kama-gayatri, Gaura-gayatri, Gaura-mula-mantra. And

probably if you check then its just grammatical on the use of the term. So your and
your vidmahi will probably be the same thing.
Devotee (2): Also in the Gopala-gayatri there is sambandha, abhidheya and prayojana.
Maharaja: Yes, its there anyways because its the main of the mula-mantras.
Devotee (3): Could you tell the descending process of the maha-mantra how it comes
from the spiritual world to the Vedas?
Maharaja: Lord Caitanya explains you have the maha-mantra which is independent,
then that expands into the Kama-gayatri. Kama-gayatri expands into all other Gayatris.
Then the bij-syllable of the Brahma-gayatri then expands into the material world as om.
So that is where your reflection is. And then from om you get bhur bhuvah svah. From
that you get the Brahma-gayatri, from that Purusa-sukta, from that the Veda.
Tri-Murti or the Three Deities, Madana-mohana, Govinda and Gopinatha
Thesis
The most worshipable Lord Sri Krsna is the embodiment of all Vedic knowledge.
Doubt,
Lord Krsna is one but Vedic knowledge is composed of three elements namely
sambandha, abhidheya and prayojana.
Objections
How can the same person simultaneously embody three different aspects of the
transcendental knowledge.
Reply to objection
We have already discussed that in the initiation or pancasamskara the disciple receives
from the spiritual master, the mantras for the performance of Deity worship (mantra and
yaga). The process of Deity worship is one of the essential items of abhidheya or the
process of devotional service. None the less the mood in which one approaches the Deity
is also set under the scientific basis of sambandha, abhidheya and prayojana which are
personified by the tree Deities, Madanamohana, Govinda and Gopinatha who are all
non different from Lord Sri Krsna. Therefore these Deities are very dear to the followers
of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu.
ei tina hkura gauyke kariychena tmast e tinera caraa vando, tine mora
ntha
These three Deities of Vndvana [Madana-mohana, Govinda and Gopntha] have
absorbed the heart and soul of the Gauya Vaiavas [followers of Lord Caitanya]. I
worship Their lotus feet, for They are the Lords of my heart.( Cc. Adi 1.19)
Sri Madhana Mohana is the worshipable Deity of Srila Sanatana Goswami, Sri
Govindadeva is the worshipable Deity of Srila Rupa Goswami and Sri Gopinatha is the
Deity of Madhu Pandita Goswami.

In this material world the all devouring enemy of the living entity is lust which
manifests as sex desire, causing the living entity to become bound up in material
activities and further forgetful of the relationship with Krsna. As sambandha murti, Sri
Madana Mohana, the enchanter of cupid, attracts the living entity back to His lotus feet
and thus brakes the living entities false attraction with the material world and
reestablishes their relationship with Him.
jayat suratau pagor mama manda-mater gat mat-sarvasva-padmbhojau rdhmadana-mohanau
17
Glory to the all-merciful Rdh-and Madana-mohana! I am lame and ill advised, yet
They are my directors, and Their lotus feet are everything to me.
So lame and ill-advised what would that indicate? Lame means we can do nothing
properly and ill-advised means we dont actually understand our position, ill-directed.
Because real intelligence is knowing sambandha-jnana. So therefore by Madanamohanas grace we can become properly situated in the knowledge of the Supreme, be
attracted to the Supreme because He is the most nice person, and then willing to be
properly engaged in the Lords devotional service.
Having been reestablished in a proper understanding of ones real identity as a
servant of Sri Krsna, the devotees senses are purified by being engaged by the abhidheya
murti, Sri Govinda (the master of the senses) in the process of devotional service.
dvyad-vndraya-kalpa-drumdha rmad-ratngra-sihsana-sthau rmadrdh-rla-govinda-devau prehlbhi sevyamnau smarmi
In a temple of jewels in Vrndavana, underneath a desire tree, Sri Sri Radha Govinda,
served by Their most confidential associates, sit upon an effulgent throne. I offer my
humble obeisances unto Them.
Also we see here this is used in Deity worship as one of the meditations. When you
are doing the dhyana, then this is the mantra that is used, dhyana-manasa-puja because
this establishes then everything. So that meditation itself is service. At the same time it
establishes where they are, they are on their nice throne under the kalpa-vrksa tree
surrounded by their associates, then one is able to actually properly meditate. If it is just
Radha and Krsna not so much beneficial. If it is Radha and Krsna with their devotees in
Vrndavana then it makes more benefit.
Ultimately when the devotee attains the stage of prema the prayojana murti, Sri
Gopinatha, the Lord of the Gopis, calls the devotee with His transcendental flute to
engage in loving pastimes.
rmn rsa-rasrambh va-vaa-taa-sthita karan veu-svanair gopr gopntha
riye stu nah
Sri Sri Radha Gopinatha, who originated the transcendental mellow of the rasa
dance, stands on the shore in Vamsivata and attracts the attention of the cowherd
damsels with the sound of His celebrated flute. May they all confer upon us their
benediction.

Because if you get their blessing then you come to that position. Because you are
trying to develop their prema. So we are seeing here the sambandha, abhidheya and
prayojana?
Srila Prabhupada included the above trimurti pranama mantras from Caitanya
Caritamrta into the mangalacarana he would chant before lectures, or when performing
initation ceremonies. Thus Srila Prabhupada established to his followers the importance
of taking shelter of these three Deities.
In the gayatri mantras these Deities are present as vidmahi, dimahi and pracodayat.
In the Gopala Mantra these Deities are present in the names Krsna, Govinda and
Gopijanavallabha.
Krsna means the all-attractive one, so that is Madana-mohana. Govinda that is
Govinda. Gopijanavallabha that is Gopinatha. Gopinatha is Lord of the gopis and
Gopijanavallabha is very dear to the gopis.
Conclusion
In this age one has to be initiated by the process of panca samskara which enables one to
receive and appreciate the original vastu traya. By this process one engages in worship of
Tri-Murti: Madana Mahana, Govinda Deva and Gopinatha who are respectively the
presiding Deities of sambandha, abhidheya and prayojana and by their mercy one
receives the full benefit of the descending process and realizes full meaning and
implication of vastu traya.
On the other hand those who dont take diksa from a authorized disciplic succession
and do not worship the tri murti become victims of their conditioned nature and take
shelter in various misinterpretations of the pure vastu traya such as the Vaisnava
apasampradays, Mayavada philosophers and other world religions.
The idea is that you have so many people who are not taking shelter of the proper
sampradaya. So they are not taking up this process, they are not hearing from bona fide
authority, they are not hearing in the line coming down from Brahma, or one of the
other associates. Here we are taking Brahma because he is our line but he also is the first.
That then establishes the position. So we dont need to use the example of other
sampradayas though they are bona fide because we are the Brahma sampradaya and since
that was established first and that the others will follow the same principle. The Lord is
speaking to Lord Siva, or the four Kumaras, or to Laksmiji.
In other words, if one doesnt take shelter of the bona fide sampradaya and hears
from the bona fide spiritual master one wont understand the vastu traya properly, one
will therefore come up with ones own mental speculation.
We will end this discussion on vastu-trayi - sambandha, abhidheya and prayojana,
with a beautiful verse from Vidagda Madhava where Sri Radha laments that she is in
love with who she thinks to be three different people, in fact they are all Krsna in the
moods of Sri Madana Mohana, Sri Govinda and Sri Gopainatha.
ekasya rutam eva lumpati mati keti nmkara sndronmda-paramparm
upanayaty anyasya va-kala

18
ea snigdha-ghana-dyutir manasi me lagna pae vkat kaa dhik purua-traye
ratir abhn manye mti reyas
[Experiencing previous attachment to Ka (prva-rga), rmat Rdhr
thought:]
Purva-raga means complete attachment. Radharani is always given in this mood but
the living entity comes to this stage in bhava where he comes to the point of being
completely attracted to Krsna, there is nothing else that is of any interest. So that is
called purva-raga. On that platform then one is able to actually worship and serve Krsna
properly fully, so that is why it is an important point this purva-raga.
So then Radharani and the gopis they show this so that we understand the principle.
So already having obtained this position then it is saying, Srimati Radharani thought:
Since I have heard the name of a person called Ka, I have practically lost My good
sense. Then, there is another person who plays His flute in such a way that after I hear
the vibration, intense madness arises in My heart. And again there is still another person
to whom My mind becomes attached when I see His beautiful lightning like effulgence in
His picture. Therefore I think that I am greatly condemned, for I have become
simultaneously attached to three persons. It would be better for Me to die because of
this. (Vidagdha-madhava 2.9.)
So Radharani thinks she is attracted to three different boys but it is actually the
same boy, it is just these three different moods. And so she being properly trained and all
that she only wants be attracted to one boy. So here is then a problem she thinks she is
attracted to three.
So then this principle of these three moods of Krsna then this is very important.
Because everything comes back to this. In other words, sambandha, abhidheya and
prayojana you get the proper knowledge of it. But how they apply in relationships, in the
rasa and all that, the practical application, the experience that is gained and all that then
we see through Madana-mohana, Govinda and Gopinatha. So this becomes very
essential that these become understood. So these are understood?
Devotee (4): I read a paper by Dhanurdhara Maharaja where he is saying that the Gopala
mantra is the most important meditation mantra for the Gaudiya Vaisnavas. While
chanting it one should think of Krsna playing His flute, Krsna with His cows and the
gopis feeling separation from Krsna. So what is the proper way to chant the Gopala
mantra? Should one think of these pictures in the mind or just concentrate on the sound
vibration?
Maharaja: Its the same as the holy name. You are dealing with name, form, qualities and
pastimes. It is not an artificial thing. It is what is your natural position. Just like when
you eat, lets say you are hungry and then you eat. So is being hungry and that process of
becoming satisfied through eating artificial? No, it is natural. So therefore we go from
sambandha, abhidheya and prayojana means these understandings very naturally. Unless
you know who you are, who God is and your relationship how you are going to engage in
activity? And only through engaging in activity are you going to get the result of prema.

Therefore name, form, qualities and pastimes. Unless you understand the name then
how is that going to bring about the form? So then from the form you get the qualities,
from the qualities the pastimes.
Just like if I talk about somebody you never heard of how do you first get to know the
person?
Devotee (4): Through the name.
Maharaja: Through the name. Therefore when I say, oh yes I mention somebody some
position prime minister, then you know the name. Then the next thing is the form. You
can see the form. Then when I say the name what will you think of?
Devotee (4): The form.
Maharaja: The form. Now if you interact with that form, or see that form doing activities
and the activities are based on qualities, then now what is the next thing that youll
think about?
Devotee (4): The activities.
Maharaja: The activity. But what is more important about the activity? What generates
the experience?
Devotee (5): The qualities.
Maharaja: The qualities. It is your qualities that you have when you perform an activity
that generates the experience. Because you can perform the same activity and depending
upon on your qualities get a different experience. So even more important than the
action is the qualities. So the action carries the qualities that gives you the experience.
So therefore qualities is the next. Oh the person is very powerful or very nice or very
aggressive like this. Then if you get closer then you see the interaction with others and
their whole associates and where they work, where they do everything, their whole
sphere of activities, then comes that.
So if you only know the name and have not seen the form, qualities or pastimes how
will you absorb yourself in those? In other words, it is dynamic. It is not just you think of
Krsna with a cow. Because it is not Krsna with a cow that is important. Its Krsna His
moods His qualities and the moods and qualities of that cow and their interaction that is
important. We are talking rasa, we are not talking just pictures. Because otherwise if it is
just pictures it is still sambandha because that is the guy that is God. Ok this time is with
the cow, now this time, now this ritual we got to put Him in with the gopis and a flute,
now this ritual we got to put Him in with this one. So it is still sambandha. You can talk
the highest rasa stuff that you want but you are still only talking about it on the platform
of sambandha. I am sorry. That is just the bottom line, I am sorry. But thats it.
But the point is it is important. One has to know the relationship and be attracted,
then one will be inspired to work. Thats why it is working because it is establishing the
sambandha therefore you are engaging in abhidheya. It is not that by hearing these
pastimes you are achieving the prayojana. No, that is for the rasiks. And for being rasik
why would Govinda be with a cow rather than playing His flute and calling the gopis? If
we are really going to be rasik here. Thats why we should stick to our own acarya. From

that you go out and take things from other acaryas. Otherwise some people arent that
rasik as they present themselves.
Because otherwise here we have been given His form is very attractive, that is
Madana-mohana. He plays the flute so he calls the gopis then that meditation then is the
interaction, Gopijanavallabha. But if you want to put cows in there that is fine with us.
But if we put in calling the gopis we dont want any flak and we definitely dont want
anyone to tell us that we are rasik the
Devotee (6): Madana-mohana, Govinda and Gopinatha, so this brings you to
Gopijana-vallabha, Krsna His relationship with His devotees, therefore then this brings
us to the proper consciousness, so then from then Krsna is manifest.
Maharaja: No, Krsna is manifest in all three. Because you are saying you get to
Gopijanavallabha then it establishes your relationship with the devotees but the
establishment of that is already done in Madana-mohana. Means all these three moods
are there. Radharani is attracted by all three. Here also we get the idea here: heard the
name of the person called Krsna, so that will give us form. Plays his flute, then that is
Govinda. Then in another one it says the beautiful effulgence, so all His qualities and
everything that they have heard about Him. Because we are dealing with ujjvala here. So
ujjvala means it is that rasa. Thats why it is necessary if you are going to deal with this
then you have to know the terminology. Otherwise one may mistake by use of words the
different things. Because here it says effulgence, so we have used effulgence here, but the
term would be ujjvala, brilliant. Like kusa-kratha, everything is brilliant.
The ujjvala means that the rasa is so intense that it becomes brilliant. Because
effulgence comes out of qualities. The Brahman is based on Krsnas qualities. The
effulgence of His qualities is what is the Brahman. So we know exactly what it is of
Krsna that the effulgence is coming from. Just like someone has good qualities they are
effulgent. Or they are very happy, so that quality creates effulgence. So it is the qualities
of Krsna that create the effulgence. Therefore when the rasa becomes so, the qualities of
it becomes so intense, it becomes effulgent. It is given like a fire. You have just a little
cose, then it becomes a little flame, and then it becomes a very big fire, so that is ujjvala
rasa. So that is what we are dealing with here.
Then we see that is Gopinatha. Even though one can say she is talking form here or
effulgence that would be sambandha, no they are actually talking rasa. Because the point
is all three are as one. So then the difficulty is its the mood of it that you are talking
about that makes it important. Otherwise then sometimes you cant tell the difference.
Thats why it is very important to understand this vastu-traya from all different angles so
that one can catch what are the things that it is talking about. So it is always much easier
when it is in the three together. When you have only one alone that might be more
difficult. Because each one has all of them there.
Madana-mohana is being worshiped, He is the Lord of the gopis but the main thing is
He is attracting the gopis. While Govinda is interacting with the gopis. While Gopinatha
is that love the gopis feel for Him. In other words, the gopis attraction to Krsna, their
attachment to Krsna and then their interaction with Krsna. So therefore

Gopijanavallabha is their attachment for Him. Madana-mohana captivates their mind.

Govinda means He engages the senses, so thats activities, thats the pastimes.
Probably you can do that but you might find it in case you are worried that your
meditation may not be so great try this one. When you are going through the three
Deities think of the three Deities. You think of Madana-mohana, Govinda and
Gopinatha. Because then despite our position of advancement of being able to
understand what actually pastime and everything is very correct for remembering. This
you are remembering the Deity of that pastime. So then you are guaranteed to get it
right.
Devotee (4): Should we meditate on the Deities itself or on the description you have just
given about them?
Maharaja: Whatever works. The point is as we said: whatever comes natural. Its just
whatever works. The point is what is sustainable is what works. Festivals are for taking it
beyond what is sustainable. You get together there is a festival, there is some sadhusanga, then by their association we may hear or be involved in things that take us beyond
our own daily experience in Krsna consciousness. But the point is having said that then
what it is that you can do on a daily basis that is what you should be doing. And then
with time it naturally increases.
In other words, it is a very natural process. There is nothing artificial. You know
what you want so therefore youll get that. But you dont have to artificially put yourself
in a position farther down the line and then it not working get frustrated. One knows
that now I am a ratbag so therefore I am going to deal with it like this. But what I want to
get to is that. That is what makes it special is that despite being a ratbag one is so
audacious that one is still going to hope for the top. So that kind of a thing is thats
whats in our line. Then we move forward. Because then it is dynamic.
Otherwise it is meditation so thats there thats service, but the point is you want to
make sure that all the elements are dynamic. So we know what we want, who we are and
what is the process we are trying to do it through. And we know where we are at in the
process. We dont have to artificially. The point is one can hear nice things but it doesnt
matter which position you are in. It is just the higher the position the more you will get
from it.
Everybody will get something. You hear Krsnas pastimes everybody will get
something from it. But hearing the pastimes of the gopis those who are on that platform
what they get from it doesnt compare, is very different from someone who is not on that
platform what they get. So for ones position one is on point 5, so you hear the pastimes
and it takes you up to 1,5. So that to you is a great amount, and it is, it is good. But
someone who is situated on these platforms that they talk about they may be dealing it
80, 90, 100.
So thats why humility is always very important and that understanding of what
position we are in. Otherwise we talk so much rasik and then after having talked rasik
then they get into their car go back home but they never come to the temple, they just
hang out with their wife and family and make money. And do a little puja on the side

and read some rasik literature and consider that they are way better than the temple
devotee who is going around and doesnt know a whole lot about this. That is called
pride. And thats why they live outside the temple and dont do really a whole lot with
others.
So thats the whole point it mentions there until you give up sex life you dont really
get into this. Thats why naiskarmya is so important. It doesnt mean you cant be a
grhastha. It has to be that your goal in grhastha is not sense enjoyment. That you are
engaging the senses in the Lords service that is one of the processes. The brahmacaris
they control the senses. The grhasthas engage the senses in the fire of the sense objects.
But they do it from the platform of naiskarmya, then it doesnt matter. So unless one is
on the platform of naiskarmya it is not going to work. The rasik will not happen.
You wont even taste the relationship with your own wife, let alone your
transcendental. Without naiskarmya you do not taste rasa. Because it is only when you
are only based on good qualities performing the activity to the best of your ability for
someone else you get the experience. As long as you are doing it for yourself how do you
get the experience? So rasa cant be tasted when it is for yourself. Very meager. Thats
why people arent satisfied. So it is only when it is being done for others that rasa they
are talking about.
Its like you get some ladies together and they are talking about previous boyfriends
or this or that, it is just a talk. There is no emotions. Its just yeah this one this that one
that. They still get together, the guys today these old up in their nineties or hundred
like that and they all got their little hats on and little medaillons and then they raise the
flag and they talk about evogima and it still brings tears to their eyes. Why? Did they do
that for themselves? Think about it. They did that for others at the risk of their life.
Mundane, but the point is it gets the result. It is rasa.
While the other it is only for yourself, its sensual, as soon as the sense stops touching
the sense object the experience is gone. It is history, it will always be history. But if there
is the sense of sacrifice, that experience remains. Thats what sacrifice is for because it
gives long-term result.
So thats why the Gita the whole thing is the naiskarmya. Then from that platform
then all of this becomes understandable. Hearing about the vastu-traya from the
parampara and you have that mood of service that selfless service then it is understood,
then all these things will come natural. So you basically do what is natural. Then it will
work for you. So you have to do what works. (end of lecture) (end)