arts & ideas

I N T E RV I EW

On
the margins

Our schools reinforce poverty stereotypes.

How can we move past privilege?
Interviewed by Blair Mlotek

illustration goes here

3.5" wide x 5.875" deep

ERIKA SHAKER is director of the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives,

as well as executive editor of its education-geared publication Our
Schools/Our Selves. We sit down with Erika to speak about how schools
should be at the forefront of challenging and changing societys perceptions of poverty and inequality and fighting back against the theory
of the culture of poverty.
Can you define the theory of the culture of poverty? The problem with

the culture of poverty is that it says people are poor because theyre
lazy or ignorant. Its easier to say that it is individual people who have
done wrong instead of recognizing that it is the fault of the system
in which we live. These are not personal failings; these are societal
and systemic failings. These are people that have been marginalized
by societyit is not a question of them changing but rather all of us
figuring out how to reverse it. The solution according to the minister
of education was educationthey have to get a job and contribute
to society, which is always easier because it doesnt require systemic
change. Systemic change is expensive, but not doing anything is very
expensive tooits expensive financially but its also expensive from
a soul-sucking perspective.
What role does the idea of equity literacy play in this? Equity literacy

is a way of countering the culture of poverty mantra. It starts from

an understanding of how society is rooted in systemic inequality. It
is a way of giving educators tools to understand how society works
from a socio-economic perspective and how currently the way its
established includes a great deal of inequality. It asks how we can
deliberately counter this.
How does this relate to education? Schools are in a good position to

have the difficult conversations that we, as a society, need to have

about society and its beliefs around poverty and inequality. Youve got
this massive institution that already exists from coast-to-coast that is
integrally related to the communities in which the schools are located.
Unfortunately, when funding is inadequate, when schools are constantly being beaten down and being told to act more like businesses,
they become increasingly standardized. When this happens, schools
can be in a position where they are actually reinforcing inequality,
which has a devastating effect on the kids who are most vulnerable
and are marginalized already.
Why arent these conversations happening in the education system?

These can be very painful discussions. People dont want to see themselves as classistlovely people can hold some really uncomfortable
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prejudices that they have not interrogated themselves. It is certainly

easier to think that people in poverty just keep doing the wrong things
instead of thinking, I am personally benefiting enormously from a
system that continually marginalizes the most vulnerable members
of society. They dont want to see it. These are difficult conversations
to have and the deeper the conversation goes, the more uncomfortable people get. But if we dont start having these conversations, then
were in big trouble.
Articles in Our Schools/Our Selves have argued that liberal arts can be
an antidote to the problem of inequality. How is it that liberal arts and
fine arts could help fix these societal problems? These programs help

kids be brought into the conversation through the arts. The arts can
give us the tools we need by nature as theyre about forcing you to step
outside yourself and forcing you to think about things from another
perspective. Extracurricular activities are often a fantastic way to find
other points of empowerment and different points of engagement for
kids. Often these are being cut or seen as being extras that dont add
anything to literacy or numeracy, the things that are easily measured.
Its often a mark on a standardized test that shows if a child is engaged
rather than the degree to which kids are engaged in the classroom, the
relationships with their teachers, and the broader school community.
Illustration by JONATHAN DYCK