API 685 vs API 610

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API 685 vs API 610

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Nathan Venter

API 685 vs API 610

4-Sep-2008 02:25 AM
Response Required:
11-Sep-2008

When do API 685 pumps become more competitive than API 610
pumps? Which capacities , Head & fluids characteristics should I look
for to compare API 685 to API610 + Sealing Systems.
I would like to to compare a API 685 Canned Motor Pump to a API
610 Centrifugal Pump which has a Plan 53B sealing system.
The Liquid is hazardous,-Butane. Flow rate 40 m3/h. Head is 288m.
I am particulay interested in hazardous fluids containment , cost and
maintenance.

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API 685 vs API 610

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Stanislaw Krzyzowski

. . RE: API 685 vs API 610

8-Sep-2008 01:18 AM

Nathan,
Generally I agree with Gabriel's post; however I have a different
opinion about sealles pump reliability. External oil lubricated bearing
is better than internal with pumped fluid lubrication.
If API 610 is selected, then it will be minimum the 2 stages pump of
Between Bearings type, so two dual seal arrangement is necessary. If
there is permitted to inject to the pumped Butane a small quantity of
barrier fluid, then API Plan 53B is adequate. If no contamination is
required so API Plan 52 should be applied.
If sealless canned motor type is chosen, then it will be also a
multistage pump.
Sealless type this is a sensitive pump. This can be used under a
special arrangement and protection only. I have touched several
damages of this type pump. For all of similar cases if sealed pump
would be used, then no problems were occurred.
Sealless should be preferred for really dangerous liquid means as
toxic.
Mostly a first estimation says - sealed pump is more expensive than sealless,
but if a sealles pump must be equipped with cooling system, bearing
temperature monitoring and dry run monitoring, there can occur that sealless
pump can be more expensive than sealed pump (regarding purchase and
maintenance).
Regards

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Gabriel Popescu

. . RE: API 685 vs API 610

7-Sep-2008 02:37 AM

Hi Nathan
Your application require a multistage pump.
API 685 fully covers only the single stage overhung pumps.
However there are pump manufacturers which are using the API
610 requirements for multistage pumps and claim that they are
offering API 685 multistage pumps.
Basically there are two types of pumps covered by API 685
- canned motor pumps
- magnetic coupling pump
Special consideration should be given to the following:
- API 685 pumps have product lubricated hydrodynamic
bearings. An internal circuit provides the flow needed for
bearing lubrication. Therefore particular characteristics of
the fluid such as, solids, magnetic particles and crystal or
polymer formations must be communicated to the pump
vendor
- Both the canned motor and the magnetic coupling are
generating heat while running. This heat - added to that
generated by the hydraulic losses in the pump- is removed
by the same internal circuit which is lubricating the bearings.
If the vapor pressure of the pumped fluid is variable with the
temperature the risk of vaporization in the bearings must be
considered, especially if the bearings are in a low pressure
region of the pump.
API 685 pumps are providing the following advantages:
- "Zero" leakage. Secondary containment design and leakage
monitoring devices are available.
- Simpler construction and less space required as they avoid
the need for seal external systems.
- Very low noise
- Internal bearings are generally cheaper then double
mechanical seals.
- According to some statistics provided by pump vendors they
are more reliable than the pumps with double mechanical
seals
However there are also some disadvantages
- They have a lower efficiency as they are not designed for
efficiency but for "zero" leakage.
- They are more expensive then traditional pumps with single
mechanical seals, but they become competitive when the
application requires API 682 double mechanical seal
systems.
- They are limited in terms of power. There are only few
manufacturers for powers above 75kW
- Samarium cobalt magnets are limited to 180degC. Special
magnets are required above.
- Canned motor pump with external cooling circuits may be
proposed for temperatures above deg C.
- They are more susceptible to low flow vaporization, and will
require special designs for flashing or particle contaminated
liquids.
- Special care is required during the commissioning procedure
in order to avoid the usual dirt and solids to enter in the
pump.
- Maintenance personnel might be not familiar with these new

Modified:
7-Sep-2008 02:42 AM

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API 685 vs API 610

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types of pumps.
- Magnetic couplings might require special tools for mounting and dismantling.
- Mechanical seals may be repaired. Bearings cannot be reused.
- For multistage "traditional pumps" bearings and mechanical seals replacement
might be performed on site without removing the whole pump. In most of the
cases API 685 pumps require to be entirely removed in order to replace the
bearings. However they are relatively small machines and this might be a good
opportunity to inspecting the internals also.
- On canned motor pumps traditional "mechanical" interventions, e.g. bearings
replacement, require dismantling of the power and instrument cables. Therefore
certified electric personnel might be needed.
For your particular application - butane- 40m3/h - 288m/h I think that a canned motor
pump will be a reliable and competitive solution.
To be certified for hazardous environment a temperature probe must exist on the
motor cooling and bearing circuit and also a liquid presence detector (level switch) to
avoid the dry running.
A pressure switch might be added on the motor casing which acts like a secondary
containment envelope
Be sure that the internal bearings (probably 3 in this application) are in a pressurized
region. Personally I would give preference to graphite bearings. Silicon carbide
bearings might damage the pump internal if broken.
Gabriel Popescu
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John Pustay

. . RE: API 685 vs API 610

8-Sep-2008 07:21 AM

I'd like to expand on Nathan's question if possible as a local Client just

asked a similar question - what is Fluor's experience with actually
using the sealless pumps for general, small hydrocarbon and
miscellaneous refinery services? (i.e. flare K/O, sour water, caustic,
small benzene and other hydrocarbon services?)
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