8 25 15 Coughlin Reinstatement Hearing - 255647ch - Fulltranscript

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3 STATE BAR OF NEVADA
4 NORTHERN NEVADA DISCIPLINARY BOARD
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6
7 IN RE: )
8 ZACHARY COUGHLIN, ESQ., ) Case No. RI 15-0804
9 )
10 ===================================================
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12
13 REINSTATEMENT HEARING
14 Tuesday, August 25th, 2015
15 Reno, Nevada
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22 Job No. 255647
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24 Reported by: CAROL HUMMEL, RPR, CCR #340
Transcription --- Computer --25
REINSTATEMENT HEARING - 08/25/2015

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DISCIPLINARY BOARD
Caren Jenkins, Esq., Chair
Marilee Breternitz, Esq.
Craig Denney, Esq.
Bruce C. Hahn, Esq.
George Furman, Lay member
9 ALSO PRESENT:
R. Kait Flocchini
10 Deputy Bar Counsel
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Zachary Coughlin, Esq.
12 Respondent
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1
I N D E X
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3 PETITIONER'S WITNESSES: DE
Charles McGee 22
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Earl Nielsen 34
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Miles Warsh 70
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Mary Barker 87
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Timothy Coughlin 96
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Zachary Coughlin
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CE RDE RCE
55 66
73 84
91 95
149
10 DEFENSE WITNESS:
NONE
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14 E X H I B I T S
PETITIONER'S EXHIBITS
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Exhibits 1, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 21 marked
16 and admitted into evidence
17 Exhibits 2, 3, 9, 10, 16, 17, 18 and 20 which are marked
and not admitted as evidence.
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STATE BAR EXHIBITS:
20 A - Marked and admitted into evidence.
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(All exhibits retained by the State Bar.)
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1 -oOo2 RENO, NEVADA; TUESDAY, AUGUST 25TH, 2015; 8:38 A.M.

3 -oOo4
5 MS. JENKINS: This is the time and place set
6 for a Northern Nevada Disciplinary Board hearing regarding
7 the reinstatement, or possible reinstatement of Zachary B.
8 Coughlin, State Bar number 9473.
9 It is August 25th, 2015, at approximately 8:38
10 A.M. I have never started a hearing on time in my life,
11 and I'm really working on that, but I haven't quite gotten
12 there yet.
13 This is Case Number RI 15-0804.
14 Are the parties ready to proceed?
15 MR. COUGHLIN: Yes.
16 MS. JENKINS: Mr. Coughlin says yes.
17 MS. FLOCCHINI: Yes. Thank you.
18 MS. JENKINS: Just as a matter of procedure,
19 we had a prehearing conference last week by telephone. At
20 that time I denied Mr. Coughlin's motion for change of
21 venue to southern Nevada.
22 Mr. Coughlin was placed on disability inactive
23 status in northern Nevada. He practiced in northern
24 Nevada. As a result he maintains the venue for this
25 matter here in northern Nevada, mostly because the panel


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1 had already been appointed, and I felt that all of those

2 reasons required that motion to be denied.
3 We also at the status conference -- we did a
4 status conference earlier in the matter where I offered
5 the parties the ability to do peremptory challenges.
6 Because of the nature of this matter I thought that was
7 appropriate. Not typical in a reinstatement hearing, but
8 we're all here for the interest of justice and fairness
9 and what have you. And so this designation of panel
10 members was entered by the disciplinary board chair.
11 I understand that just this morning at
12 approximately 8:10 Mr. Coughlin has served each of the
13 panel members with a rather lengthy, over 500-page
14 supplement, to his prehearing statement, which I have not
15 received because, of course, I was already here.
16 I haven't had an opportunity to read that, and
17 I doubt that the panel members have because they were
18 either in transit or what have you. So I don't know
19 whether that's going to be able to be considered at this
20 time.
21 In the interest of fairness, Ms. Flocchini
22 hasn't had an opportunity to look at it either or to
23 consider whether to object to it.
24 Would you like to at this time make an
25 argument for why it should be considered, Mr. Coughlin?

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1 MR. COUGHLIN: Yes, your Honor.

2 Good morning, panel. Thank you for being
3 here. The thing I submitted this morning is, I apologize
4 for being late, some of it is due to just the change in
5 strategy.
6 What you got last week from me basically
7 arguing, well, this is a disability reinstatement hearing,
8 not a misconduct reinstatement hearing was one tack.
9 decided to take a different tack, which is basically to

10 treat this like a misconduct reinstatement hearing, so
11 that necessitated providing the panel with basically the
12 entire record from the disability case.
13 So what was missing from the Bar's prehearing
14 packet, I just supplemented. Such as the eight exhibits
15 to the original 117 Petition, the additional response
16 reference in the Court's order placing me on disability.
17 Response from me, the Notice. In that order.
18 Based on our review of all the documents on
19 file in this case, and Dr. Nielsen's report, I thought
20 this panel certainly was entitled to everything the Nevada
21 Supreme Court was looking at.
22 So the length of it is maybe a little
23 misleading. It's not -- yes, it's 500 pages, but the
24 pleading attached to it, I believe around 20 pages, it
25 basically is just case law.

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1 Then the exhibits attached thereto are

2 basically things that I would seek to have introduced as
3 exhibits here, such as proof of attendance at AA meetings.
4 That's, I think, roughly 15, 20 letters of recommendation.
5 An order from Judge Nash Holmes, my understanding setting
6 aside some convictions. An order from Judge Gardner
7 which, my understanding, amounted to setting aside an
8 attorney fee award. These were ones referenced in the SCR
9 117 petition.
10 So I apologize for not getting that to the
11 panel earlier. I don't think it's really all that
12 necessary for today's purposes that the panel had it in
13 advance. It might have been helpful, of course, but my
14 kind of changing attack midcourse, somewhat due just out
15 of respect for the panel, somewhat due to becoming more
16 familiar with the disciplinary rule procedure, Rule 57,
17 around a year old, which basically kind of undermines a
18 lot of my arguments in what I filed last week to some
19 extent.
20 But I think just in the spirit of cooperation
21 with the Bar it makes a lot more sense to just address
22 each of the things in the petition head on, and not seek
23 to limit the panel's knowledge of everything that the
24 Nevada Supreme Court had access to.
25 MS. JENKINS: Thank you, Mr. Coughlin.

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1 Ms. Flocchini.
2 MS. FLOCCHINI: The State Bar appreciates the
3 recognition that the full substance of the 117 Petition is
4 at issue before the panel today, and not just
5 Dr. Nielsen's recommendation that was ultimately decided.
6 And that was the primary focus of or most likely will be
7 the primary focus of the State Bar's presentation to the
8 panel to the extent that when it's necessary following
9 Mr. Coughlin's presentation that it was not just
10 Dr. Nielsen's report, but the underlying circumstances
11 that led to the 117 petition, which then led to
12 Dr. Nielsen's review that the supreme court considered.
13 And therefore the panel should consider
14 whether or not all of those issues have been addressed or
15 are able to be addressed by Mr. Coughlin at this point.
16 To the extent that there is a substantial
17 document, I agree, I too noticed that the exhibits to the
18 117 petition were not included in your packet. I know it
19 was long, and there was stuff missing still. And to the
20 extent that those are important, we can make copies of
21 that available to the panel during deliberation separately
22 so that it's clear what those are.
23 I just flipped through the supplemental
24 prehearing brief. Some of this I recognize, some I don't.
25 To the extent that there's exhibits attached that

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1 Mr. Coughlin would like to use in his presentation of

2 evidence, I think we just address those in the course of
3 the hearing as opposed to as part of the supplemental
4 prehearing brief.
5 I think at this point, because of the
6 inability to review it previously or -- the intent of a
7 prehearing brief is to give a synopsis to the panel, to
8 the parties, about what's going to be happening. I think
9 to the extent -- maybe that ship has sailed at this point.
10 And to the extent that Mr. Coughlin can address what's in
11 the packet during the presentation, I think that's more
12 appropriate than to have the supplemental prehearing brief
13 admitted into the record and fully considered by the
14 panel.
15 MS. JENKINS: Any rebuttal to Ms. Flocchini's
16 statement?
17 MR. COUGHLIN: Sure. Just perhaps it would be
18 useful for me to reference the index to exhibits in the
19 prehearing brief.
20 MS. JENKINS: Before we do that. Let's just
21 talk about procedurally why it should be considered in
22 this hearing at all.
23 MR. COUGHLIN: I think it would just be
24 useful. Everything that's in the brief, I believe, I
25 could make the argument on the record here today, and I

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1 will probably in truncated version, citing all the case

2 laws cited there which basically is just from CJS's review
3 of attorney disciplinary matters, reinstatement hearing
4 specifically. I just picked out the useful stuff to help
5 me understand what to address.
6 With respect to why should the exhibits be
7 considered. I think it's useful, it's very helpful. What
8 I submitted, I emailed to each member of the panel and the
9 Bar. It's a very useful digitized OCR file of all this
10 stuff. So I think -- I don't believe a decision is going
11 to be made today. I think it might be useful for the
12 panel to hear testimony today and get a sense from that,
13 and then be able to have this 500-page pdf file, where if
14 they want to type in the word Adderall, you see anywhere
15 it comes up in the 500 pages, take them right to it.
16 A lot of work went into that with respect to
17 making a digital copy. I think that might save the State
18 Bar some time in terms of producing the record, forwarding
19 the record on to the Nevada Supreme Court should that need
20 to take place.
21 The underlying thing is I think it's just
22 stuff the panel would want. I think the panel -- if I was
23 on the panel I would want everything within the disability
24 case.
25 MS. JENKINS: I have what I need. Thank you.

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1 Mr. Coughlin, during our telephone conference

2 last week I asked the State Bar and the Respondent
3 exchange any documents that were going to be used in this
4 hearing today.
5 My understanding is that the materials you
6 attached to this prehearing statement, the supplemental
7 thing this morning, include things like letters of
8 recommendation, which we talked about on the phone;
9 correct?
10 MR. COUGHLIN: (Nonverbal response.)
11 MS. JENKINS: Were those provided to the State
12 Bar within -- by last Friday so that they could be
13 provided to the panel in consideration for today?
14 MR. COUGHLIN: Yes. All of them were
15 provided, save one or two that came in late. I think
16 those were provided last night or something in that
17 regard.
18 But I would reference DRP, just in the spirit
19 of cooperation here. Discipline Rule of Procedure 57
20 says, I believe, the prehearing packet to be served on the
21 State Bar five days in advance of the hearing. It was
22 served, I believe, at the August 21st or August 25th
23 hearing. I don't think I had any real prejudice from
24 that. I was able to get it a little bit late and still
25 try to make as much use of this precious time for a panel

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1 that's volunteer -2 MS. JENKINS: Mr. Coughlin, my concern is that

3 any materials for the panel to consider should be provided
4 to the panel, because we have all invested time in looking
5 at that and studying it and preparing for this hearing.
6 You may not be aware that regularly decisions
7 and deliberations take place following the close of
8 evidence, and deliberations take place immediately after,
9 and decisions are rendered immediately. So there is not
10 time to consider 500 pages of material today.
11 It is troubling to me that you chose to change
12 your approach so late in the game. This circumstance
13 you've been aware of for quite some time, and this hearing
14 date has been on calendar for quite some time. And for us
15 to get that much material while we're sitting in this room
16 waiting for the hearing to happen is just -- it's a very
17 troubling situation.
18 I believe that it was clear to both the State
19 Bar and to you during our telephone conference that
20 exhibits were to be exchanged. Any objection to those
21 exhibits were to be raised. You were to determine whether
22 we could stipulate to the entry of evidence prior to
23 getting here. And I'm very, very disturbed that that
24 didn't happen.
25 So we're going to be wasting some time today.

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1 And as you said, all of the members here are volunteers.

2 We could be at our desks making money. Instead we're
3 giving you an audience for the possibility of your
4 reinstatement. So that really is very troubling to me.
5 I am not going to rule about the admissibility
6 and consideration of now supplemental materials until I
7 have a chance to look at them. But if you wish to
8 introduce any of those exhibits as evidence today, I would
9 like for you to show them to Ms. Flocchini, ask if she has
10 an objection, give her an opportunity to look at them, and
11 then provide copies to this panel. We're not going to be
12 going onto our cell phone to look at them.
13 If you don't have hard copies, I'm certain
14 that Ms. Peters will be able to make a reasonable number
15 of copies for you. I'm not talking about reproducing 500
16 pages five or six times, because the record needs one as
17 well. Any of those things that you can get taken care of
18 while we take a brief rest room break this morning, I
19 would appreciate.
20 I would like to move forward with the hearing
21 at this time, our procedural circumstances. Is there
22 anything else procedurally that we need to do before we
23 swear the witness and get going?
24 MS. FLOCCHINI: Nothing that I can think of.
25 Thank you.

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1 MS. JENKINS: Mr. Coughlin?

2 MR. COUGHLIN: Nothing.
3 MS. JENKINS: Thank you.
4 Then I would like to ask the panel to
5 introduce itself, and we'll start with Mr. Denney to my
6 left.
7 MR. DENNEY: Good morning. I'm Craig Denney.
8 MS. BRETERNITZ: Marilee Breternitz.
9 MR. LOW: Keegan Low.
10 MR. FURMAN: George Furman.
11 MS. JENKINS: I'm Caren Jenkins, and I'm the
12 chair.
13 Counsel are present. Mr. Coughlin, the
14 Respondent, is here, and Ms. Flocchini for the State Bar.
15 Would counsel like to make opening statements of not more
16 than ten minutes? An opening statement?
18 MS. JENKINS: Mr. Coughlin, please.
19 Do we need to swear Mr. Coughlin or is he here
20 as an attorney?
21 MS. FLOCCHINI: You're representing yourself.
22 The easiest course would be to swear him at this time,
23 then we know everything is -- has been sworn in. No
24 matter what's being said at what point, it's all under
25 oath. I'm sure Mr. Coughlin is going to be forthwith with

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1 the panel.
2 MS. JENKINS: Do you have an objection,
3 Mr. Coughlin?
4 MR. COUGHLIN: No.
5 (The oath was administered to
6 Mr. Coughlin.)
7 MS. JENKINS: Please be seated.
8 MR. COUGHLIN: I appreciate the panel being
9 here today. Today I intend to put on evidence showing
10 reinstatement, like I said, with an approach that treats
11 this more like a misconduct reinstatement hearing than a
12 disability reinstatement hearing, to whatever extent those
13 are different.
14 What I filed last week on the 21st needs more
15 evidence to the extent there does seem to be different
16 standards under supreme court rules with respect to what
17 Petitioner must prove in the different contexts.
18 With SCR 116.2 spelling out some standards
19 that are substantially similar to what are found in the
20 mitigation standards under SCR 102.5. Wherein the
21 disability statement context, the rule is SCR 117.4 which
22 basically -- which does, in fact, state the Petitioner
23 must show the disability has been removed, and they are
24 fit to practice law, and they have the necessary
25 competence and learning in the law.

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1 Where I got a bit caught up was in that fit to

2 practice. And I didn't necessarily know what that meant.
3 I didn't find a whole lot of authority to help spell it
4 out besides just generally what you think of when you hear
5 the word fit or fitness. To me that was a broad thing
6 that probably does include character, and probably would
7 necessitate putting on character witnesses. I'm a little
8 confused because you hear the term character and fitness,
9 and they are different things.
10 Regardless, I see this as an opportunity, a
11 precious opportunity. And I think it would be foolish to
12 come in here and try -- well, I have to do less than
13 somebody. That might be true, and maybe if that helps
14 this panel apply a little bit more forgiving standard to
15 me, that would be great.
16 But I think it would be foolish for me not to
17 try to address all the mitigation aspects that are found
18 in 102.5 that seems to be incorporated in 116.4, and I
19 intend to do that today by -20 Well, first I intend to address the fact I'm
21 no longer disabled by putting on testimony by someone I
22 believe already has been deemed a qualified medical
23 expert, Dr. Nielsen, pursuant to the Nevada Supreme Court
24 accepting his report and not saying otherwise where the
25 order requiring such indicated he needs to be a qualified

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1 medical expert. So he will be appearing by telephone.

2 Probably the first witness here. Then primarily for the
3 purpose of meeting the first prong of 117.4, showing the
4 disability has been removed.
5 After that, meeting the fitness prong showing
6 I'm fit to practice law, I think will necessitate
7 addressing that which was brought up in the 116 Petition.
8 There might be other stuff that will be worthwhile
9 addressing that didn't find its way into the 117 petition.
10 I have to do that here today in the interest of judicial
11 economy.
12 It's interesting to note the disability
13 petition was filed May 31st, 2012, so it's over -- I
14 believe that's about 38 months ago. There was some things
15 that happened subsequent to the filing of the petition
16 that might be relevant to my fitness. Whether or not
17 that's within the purview of what the panel needs to
18 address today or should address today, I'll leave that to
19 the panel. But I'm happy to address that stuff.
20 But I think I'm not conceding the point on
21 appeal, but I want to use this hearing as well as
22 possible.
23 Judge McGee will also be testifying, the
24 character witness, and in whatever capacity he chooses to
25 testify, whether as to fitness or disability being

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1 removed.
2 And then I'll put on evidence related to
3 showing current competence and learning of the law.
4 But it seems to me the bulk of the time should
5 be spent on the fitness prong. I'll leave that to the
6 panel. And if the panel provides some direction in terms
7 of what it would like me to focus on, I certainly will.
8 But from my review of the case law, addressing
9 the fitness aspect might necessitate addressing some of
10 the underlying either alleged misconduct or alleged
11 conduct resulting in a disability petition. And I'll be
12 doing that today.
13 The majority of it, if not all of it, is just
14 saying mea culpa, expressing contrition. Not getting too
15 much, if at all, into, well, I wasn't that culpable
16 because I had this state of mind, even though there is
17 case law that supports doing that, looking beyond the
18 title of the conviction to the unlike circumstances. I'll
19 do that if the panel feels it's useful.
20 But the underlying sentiment is just that I
21 was wrong. I was not well. Kind of a combination of
22 being not well, but also understanding I have personal
23 responsibility here, and I was not behaving appropriately,
24 and I did some things that were wrong. I'm not
25 necessarily saying, well, it's okay because I was either

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1 impaired or whatever it may be or because of this or that.

2 Thank you.
3 MS. FLOCCHINI: Thank you for your time here
4 today also. I'll be brief.
5 The panel has been provided with a copy of
6 Rule 117, I believe. And in that it provides that
7 Mr. Coughlin is the Petitioner for reinstatement bearing
8 the burden of proof to show by clear and convincing
9 evidence that the disability has been removed or that he's
10 no longer disabled, and that he's fit at this time to
11 return to the practice of law.
12 The focus on fitness is appropriate in this
13 case. There's no doubt that Mr. Coughlin is very smart.
14 And the State Bar has made no qualms when discussing with
15 Mr. Coughlin that we're not prepared at this time to
16 support his reinstatement petition. Sometimes the State
17 Bar appears and does not object or stipulate to
18 reinstatement, but nonetheless just provides for the
19 Petitioner to put on their case.
20 At this point the State Bar is not supporting
21 the petition for reinstatement. And that is primarily
22 because there is doubt at this time that he is emotionally
23 or mentally stable enough to take on practicing law yet.
24 And the State Bar's recommendation or the
25 State Bar's request in response to the petition would be

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1 that the panel hold the matter in abeyance for six months,
2 and conduct a status hearing regarding a continuance of
3 his current course, that he continues to follow the
4 recommendations of Dr. Nielsen and address the underlying
5 issues that got us to the 117 petition, and that he
6 establish a plan for handling the stress and/or the
7 changes that will ensue if he returns to the practice of
8 law.
9 Our request, or our recommendation, is based
10 on, will be based on the brevity of Mr. Coughlin's
11 compliance with Dr. Nielsen's recommendation. And the
12 other basis is for the supreme court's finding of
13 disability.
14 Also the anticipated issues with starting up
15 the practice of law that the State Bar has not yet seen be
16 addressed in Mr. Coughlin's presentation of information to
17 the State Bar.
18 And then thirdly, the State Bar recognizes
19 that under SCR 117 an attorney who is placed on disability
20 inactive status cannot apply for reinstatement any sooner
21 than one year after the first application. So there has
22 to be a one-year gap from the first application, which was
23 made in June. So if his request for reinstatement is
24 denied today, Mr. Coughlin would have to wait a full year.
25 And recognizing that perhaps that's longer than is

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1 necessary, perhaps, that's why we would request that the

2 panel hold their decision in abeyance so that it gives
3 Mr. Coughlin some time, but not necessarily a full year,
4 to show examples that the State Bar would support as a
5 basis for returning to the practice of law.
6 MS. JENKINS: Mr. Coughlin, presentation of
7 evidence.
8 MR. COUGHLIN: I would first like to put on
9 some witnesses. If Judge McGee would like to go first.
10 would like to do that unless you would like to hear the

11 doctor's testimony.
12 I will call Judge McGee.
13 MS. JENKINS: Mr. Coughlin, was this witness
14 disclosed to the State Bar?
16 MS. JENKINS: Objection?
17 MS. FLOCCHINI: I am considering the
18 representation that Judge McGee was disclosed. I believe
19 that Judge McGee may have been referenced in conversation.
20 The State Bar does not have an objection to Judge McGee's
21 testimony today.
22 But I wanted to give some input on the order
23 of testimony. It is Mr. Coughlin's hearing. But I know
24 that Dr. Nielsen was available, prepared to be available
25 from 8:30 until 10:00, and that he will not be available

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1 after 10:00 o'clock. So I wanted to make sure that that

2 was taken into consideration.
3 CHARLES McGEE
4 called as a witness in said case,
5 having been first duly sworn, was
6 examined and testified as follows:
7
8 THE WITNESS: I may be very, very brief,
9 because I got here long enough, and I'm sorry I'm late, to
10 hear I'm being called as a character witness.
11 The reason that I put this judicial
12 identification badge on this morning was to remind myself
13 that I'm not here as an advocate for Zach Coughlin. I'm
14 here as a judicial officer, in one sense, trying to guard
15 the profession, just like the State Bar is doing, and a
16 person who has had percipient observations of this young
17 man over a period of years and headway that he has
18 recently made.
19 So if he wants me to limit my testimony to
20 just character testimony, then I will say a few words, and
21 I'll leave. If I'm allowed to -- go ahead.
22 MS. JENKINS: Would you please identify
23 yourself for the record.
24 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. Charles M. McGee.
25 And I live at 4930 Turning Leaf Way in Reno, Nevada. I've

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1 been a trial court judge or juvenile judge for over 35

2 years.
3 May I go ahead?
4 MR. COUGHLIN: Yes, your Honor. Unless you
5 would prefer me to ask you questions, I'll allow you to
6 say whatever you want to say, testify about whatever you
7 want to testify about.
8 THE WITNESS: I'll do that.
9 MR. COUGHLIN: For whatever purpose.
10 THE WITNESS: It's really interesting for me
11 to see how awkward it must be for you to stand up and try
12 to argue legal niceties when your primary mission in here
13 this morning should be the mea culpa part of it, because
14 that's what you need to do with these people.
15 Let me state briefly my qualifications.
16 Is this a confidential hearing?
17 MS. JENKINS: No.
18 Ms. Flocchini, would you like to respond to
19 that?
20 THE WITNESS: Is this a public hearing?
21 MS. JENKINS: It is a public hearing. The
22 public is invited to attend the hearing, and the record, I
23 don't believe, is sealed in any way. But depending on
24 Mr. Coughlin's future disciplinary or behavioral issues it
25 may be open, and so you need to be aware of that.

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1 THE WITNESS: Thank you for that guidance.

2 There is no secret that 12 years ago I was
3 stopped and then subsequently convicted of a DUI. And I
4 have been in a 12-step program ever since. And that is
5 one of the venues in which I was able to observe Zach.
6 I've read Dr. Nielsen's report. I've talked
7 to many people, including his father who is here this
8 morning. And Bruce Beesley, who also represented the
9 State Bar here just a couple years ago.
10 I have -- I don't envy your position, because
11 for me what is necessary here is an amber flag of caution.
12 Caution. Caution. Caution. Because as -- I don't know
13 if I want to use the word miraculous. Maybe whatever
14 enlightenment he, I think honestly, has received is fairly
15 shortlived as the Bar has stated this morning.
16 I am something of a pseudopsycho
17 pharmacologist having started the first family drug court
18 in the United States in 1994. And I'm aware of certain
19 parts of the addiction world because of my personal
20 experience, and because of my studies.
21 This 90 days they talk about, for example, has
22 clinical backup to it. It's about 90 days before the
23 brain chemistry begins to change. And my anecdotal
24 experience anyway is it's about a year for somebody who is
25 addicted to a substance. You can't state with any

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1 confidence he or she is completely out of the woods.

2 Zach is a brilliant young man as the State
3 just stated. And he is brilliant, and who has a multiplex
4 of problems. He had a problem with alcohol, as do I. And
5 I say that in the current tense because that's what all
6 12-step people will tell you. You're recovering a day at
7 a time.
8 But on top of that, he's had mental health
9 issues, as you can see in Dr. Nielsen's report. What's
10 interesting to me is that none of his transgressions
11 considered in isolation would probably warrant more than
12 a -- some of them may be a private reprimand. Some of
13 them may be a public reprimand, or maybe even a suspension
14 or something like that.
15 Taken together collectively, this man, and I'm
16 saying this to you in your face, acted like a jerk.
17 You've read the transcripts, and you can see how haughty
18 and arrogant he was before these lower court judges as if
19 he had some kind of corner on the world.
20 And that to me is a sign of the problem that
21 he was having with Adderall, which is a psychotropic drug.
22 So he got a little bit manic. Not in the full-blown sense
23 of a mood swing disorder, but he got a little beyond
24 himself.
25 Now, those are the caution flags that I think

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1 are absolutely legitimate in this case. And I only

2 learned from correspondence from you, I think, that
3 there's a monitoring program that is offered by the State
4 Bar. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And as early, as rigorous
5 as possible, and then taper it off. Because he is still
6 in that area where he could relapse both on the Adderall
7 or any other kind of drug.
8 And let me tell you, I think a biased warning
9 with some scientific basis. More and more now they're
10 saying that these addictions all go through the same kind
11 of process, whether they are uppers or downers, they are
12 all affected by the dopamine or serotinum travel between
13 the synaptic clef. And it literally after a while kind of
14 rewires the brain. So the brain has got to wire back to
15 the point of normalcy, if you will. I can't get much
16 beyond that because I'm not a psychiatrist or a chemist or
17 any of those things.
18 But I applaud Zach Coughlin because for years
19 I thought he was full of himself. And he was good at it,
20 because he's smart. I don't think he's fooling himself
21 anymore. I think he's honest. I think he recognized what
22 a jerk he was.
23 I think if he could -- in the 12-step program
24 we're supposed to make amends. And whatever way he can do
25 that without offending the judicial officers that he

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1 offended, he should probably be doing that as the ninth

2 step we call it.
3 But the overall prognosis is excellent after
4 he had this kind of epiphany. And I can't describe it in
5 a different word than that, because I think he's rock
6 solid in his early recovery.
7 So, to me, you should start out, whether it's
8 now or a month from now or three months from now, or even
9 six months from now. But if you start out and say, okay,
10 we're going to put you under a microscope and under the
11 monitoring of a licensed attorney or somebody that would
12 be willing to take him in and watch everything he does to
13 see if he has that quality of professionalism that I think
14 he now recognizes is an integral part of being a
15 professional.
16 Then I don't think you need to necessarily
17 wait six months. I think he needs to come up with a plan
18 that accomplishes all those goals so that it starts out
19 real tentative. He's not going to take on a caseload of
20 30 or 40 cases no matter what. He's going to do a few and
21 see how he does. And then the monitor is going to maybe
22 monitor him, go to court with him and see is he acting in
23 a way that is appropriate for an officer of the court.
24 That's pretty much all I have to say. I'm
25 speaking with the eye of my heart. And I care for him.

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1 really care for him. But I'm not going to be hornswoggled

2 by him either. So the job is yours. I just made it maybe
3 a little bit more tense.
4 And I'm sorry if I haven't been here to just
5 laud your character to the heavens, because I think you're
6 in a process of recovery, and that you have taken the
7 right steps, and that at some point you ought to be a
8 proud practitioner of the profession that everyone in this
9 room loves.
10 That's all I have to say.
11 MS. JENKINS: Any other questions for the
12 witness?
13 MR. COUGHLIN: No, your Honor.
14 MS. JENKINS: Ms. Flocchini?
15 MS. FLOCCHINI: No, thank you.
16 MS. JENKINS: The panel?
17 MR. FURMAN: None.
18 MR. LOW: Good morning, Judge McGee. I'm
19 Keegan Low, and we have met before.
20 THE WITNESS: Of course.
21 MR. LOW: In the packet I was provided I did
22 not have a copy of Dr. Nielsen's report. And I sort of
23 feel like I need a copy of that at my earliest ability to
24 have one, because I need to see what was in that report.
25 But I will talk to you about -- you have some

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1 familiarity with the Petitioner in the recovery program,

2 you've indicated?
3 THE WITNESS: I do.
4 MR. LOW: Are you his sponsor?
5 THE WITNESS: I am not.
6 MR. LOW: Do you know who his sponsor is? And
7 you don't have to tell me that.
8 THE WITNESS: I think so. But I think that's
9 information that I would like to maintain confidentiality
10 for.
11 MR. LOW: I don't need any identity.
12 To your knowledge, does the Petitioner have a
13 sponsor?
14 THE WITNESS: I think so. But I'm not sure.
15 He's been gone. He went from here and took a journey, I
16 think to southern California. He's only recently returned
17 to Reno. Relatively recently.
18 MR. LOW: You're talking about the Petitioner?
19 THE WITNESS: Yes, I am.
20 MR. LOW: All right.
21 THE WITNESS: There was a gap in there.
22 don't know what his relationship with a sponsor might have

23 been in southern California.
24 MR. LOW: Do you have any information about
25 how long the Petitioner has been in a recovery program?

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1 THE WITNESS: Yes, with qualifications.
2 think he's been in the recovery program for approximately

3 six years. Whether he's been fully -- had full traction
4 in the program is of much more recent vintage.
5 MR. LOW: There's obviously a determination of
6 the quality of recovery -7 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
8 MR. LOW: -- that's he's experiencing.
9 Do you have information or knowledge about how
10 often he currently attends his recovery program?
11 THE WITNESS: I know he's there every time I'm
12 there on Thursday nights. I don't know what his regimen
13 is. I think he goes to much more than once a week.
14 And if I were in your shoes, I would make
15 mandatory a certain rigor of attendance of three or five
16 times a week.
17 Ironically, you might even ask his dad that
18 question, because his dad is an expert in this area.
19 MR. LOW: I think that's all I have. Thank
20 you.
21 THE WITNESS: Thank you, sir.
22 MS. JENKINS: Mr. Denney?
23 MR. DENNEY: I have no questions.
24 MS. JENKINS: Judge McGee, when was the last
25 time you were at a meeting where Zach Coughlin was in

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1 attendance?
2 THE WITNESS: Three weeks ago.
3 MS. JENKINS: You mentioned that he's been
4 away.
5 THE WITNESS: Yes.
6 MS. JENKINS: How long ago did he leave? And
7 how long ago did he return? That you're aware of.
8 THE WITNESS: I'm not completely sure, because
9 I've been in the hospital this year for over two months.
10 And then I've been in a rehab hospital. And then I've
11 been in physical therapy. So during those periods of time
12 I wasn't even able to attend the Thursday night meetings,
13 the so-called comeetings as they are known.
14 So I know there was a hiatus where he was
15 gone. And I know that his father from earlier on was
16 something of a lightning rod for some of his angst, if you
17 will.
18 What I saw in the meeting three weeks ago is a
19 father and son grasping at each other in the wellness of
20 the moment. And it was sincere as all get-out, and I
21 cried.
22 MS. JENKINS: How long ago did you meet
23 Mr. Coughlin?
24 THE WITNESS: Probably six years ago, seven
25 years ago. I actually helped him get a job with the local

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1 Nevada Legal Aid Society, Paul Elcano. And one of the

2 people he disappointed was Paul Elcano. And he's since
3 made amends to Mr. Elcano.
4 That's part of the reason for my hesitation as
5 I spoke on direct examination.
6 MS. JENKINS: Any other questions from the
7 panel?
8 MR. DENNEY: None.
9 MS. JENKINS: Thank you, Judge.
10 MR. COUGHLIN: Your Honor, if I can.
11 MS. JENKINS: Please, go ahead.
12 DIRECT EXAMINATION
13 BY MR. COUGHLIN:
14 Q Your Honor, if I can just ask you. You
15 referenced six years ago. I believe at the meeting you're
16 referring to where I saw you a few weeks ago you had said
17 you had actually known me since about 2003 or '04?
18 A That's probably right.
19 Q That's my recollection.
20 A I stand corrected. It probably has been that
21 long. I'm not real good on time. And I apologize to you.
22 It probably has been at least ten years.
23 MS. JENKINS: Thank you, Judge McGee.
24 THE WITNESS: May I be excused?
25 MS. JENKINS: You are excused. Thank you for

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1 being here.
2 Is it time for Dr. Nielsen? Get the telephone
3 set up, please.
4 (Recess taken.)
5 MS. JENKINS: I understand, we have a
6 telephone witness. Would the witness please identify
7 himself.
8 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. I didn't understand
9 that.
10 MS. JENKINS: Would you identify yourself for
11 the record, please, sir.
12 THE WITNESS: My name is Earl S. Nielsen,
13 N-i-e-l-s-e-n, Ph.D.
14 MS. JENKINS: I'm going to ask the court
15 reporter to swear you to tell the truth. If you would
16 stand, please, and raise your right hand.
17 (The oath was administered
18 telephonically to the witness.)
19 MS. JENKINS: Dr. Nielsen, my name is Caren
20 Jenkins, and I'm the chair here. I want to let you know
21 that this panel, the five-member panel, today has not yet
22 reviewed your report, either the one you did initially or
23 the one you've done more recently. So Mr. Coughlin is
24 going to be examining you to elicit your testimony.
25 Any references to your reports are just fine,

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1 but we want you to testify from your knowledge rather than

2 from your report. Okay?
3 THE WITNESS: Okay.
4 MS. JENKINS: Mr. Coughlin.
5 EARL NIELSEN
10 BY MR. COUGHLIN:
11 Q Good morning, Dr. Nielsen. Thank you for
12 making yourself available to testify.
13 A You're welcome.
14 Q Dr. Nielsen, can you describe the contents of
15 your evaluation, your original evaluation and your
16 subsequent evaluation of myself, the Petitioner?
17 A Yes. Although it's not on the records in
18 front of me, I'll have to do it off the top of my head.
19 Q Dr. Nielsen, if I can just interject quickly.
20 Including reference to recovery efforts by the Petitioner
21 that may have been present with respect to substance abuse
22 recovery.
23 Please go ahead, sir.
24 A Okay. I was originally asked to conduct a
25 psychological evaluation of Mr. Coughlin and the question

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1 in front of the Nevada State Bar or from the supreme

2 court, I was never clear on exactly which.
3 So I met with Mr. Coughlin in July of 2014 and
4 conducted a background, social history interview, and also
5 what I call a clinical review to review his perception of
6 his own level of functioning.
7 I was also surprised with the relatively
8 extensive records by the Bar. And so I had the records
9 that described the complaints about Mr. Coughlin, and the
10 history from the legal point of view.
11 I also conducted psychological testing with
12 Mr. Coughlin, including the reading skills of intelligence
13 and the Millon Multiaxial Clinical Inventory -14 THE REPORTER: He's breaking up.
15 MS. JENKINS: Dr. Nielsen, if you could speak
16 as loudly as you can without shouting. We're having a
17 little trouble hearing you.
18 THE WITNESS: I'm having that trouble too.
19 Did you ask me to speak up?
20 MS. JENKINS: If you would.
21 THE WITNESS: Okay. I was talking when you
22 said it, so I didn't hear you. I will try to speak more
23 clearly and louder.
24 MS. JENKINS: Great.
25 THE WITNESS: So in meeting with Mr. Coughlin,

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1 and during the psychological testing, the conclusions that

2 I was able to reach were that he was -- he was having some
3 problems with addiction to alcohol. He had had difficulty
4 in the past with other chemicals that seemed to have been
5 resolved. That he was mildly depressed, but a lot of that
6 appeared to me to be situational in response to his
7 difficulties with the Bar.
8 And I also diagnosed a dependent personality
9 disorder underlying everything else, and probably of
10 longer standing.
11 What I recommended was that he seek counseling
12 on a regular basis from a qualified counselor, that he
13 also participate in at least AA, if not alcohol treatment.
14 And that he -- the other recommendation I made was that he
15 withdraw himself from the law and find what I call the
16 subsistence job where he could survive, but he needed to
17 get back to his own roots, working, being responsible,
18 supporting himself, get away from some of his dependency
19 issues.
20 And I also recommended that if possible he get
21 out of the area. Because I think there are too many
22 triggers around him in the Reno community, at least in
23 Washoe County.
24 I know that's a pretty brief summary of a
25 longer report. That's essentially what the report

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1 concluded.
2 I then received a phone call from Mr. Coughlin
3 in June of 2015 asking if I would review his progress and
4 be willing to write a letter to the Bar that describes my
5 observations. I agreed to do that, and I met with him, I
6 think, on June 26th in my office.
7 He supplied me with additional records. He
8 also supplied me with a relatively long list of people to
9 contact who had opportunity to observe him. I chose not
10 to contact all of those people. It seemed redundant. But
11 I did speak with Bill Martin, who is a marriage and family
12 therapist. I spoke with Dr. Hoar who is also a marriage
13 and family therapist. And I also spoke to Dr. Tim
14 Coughlin, who is Mr. Coughlin's father. These are
15 people -- the first two he had been in counseling with in
16 San Diego.
17 The importance of speaking to his father is
18 that when I did the original report he was quite estranged
19 from his father and had not been able to communicate
20 directly with his father for a period of time. But they
21 were in a more antagonistic relationship at the time that
22 I evaluated him first. So his willingness to allow me to
23 speak to his father at this point allowed me a window that
24 I thought I needed.
25 So I was able to do those things, to review

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1 the records of the counselors, to review the medical

2 records, and also to speak to these three people, as well
3 as Mr. Coughlin, so four people.
4 Based on my then contacts of Mr. Coughlin and
5 his community, I wrote a letter on his behalf back to the
6 Bar saying that essentially I thought that he had followed
7 my recommendations, that he had made the effort to do what
8 I had suggested. He had -- he followed through his
9 counseling in Reno, although that counseling was through
10 the Northern Nevada Adult Mental Health Services. And in
11 my report I had not recommended that service, I
12 specifically not recommended the service. But I think
13 that's all he can afford, and I understood that, that he
14 had no means.
15 When he got to San Diego, I think his first
16 objective there was to apply for MediCal. And once
17 MediCal was approved, he was able then to get private
18 counselors who, I think, provided more support and more
19 benefit than what he was receiving with NAMS.
20 I didn't have any contact with Mr. Coughlin
21 from at least August of 2014 until June of 2015. I didn't
22 have further contact from the Bar, although I submitted
23 the report. I had no feedback. I don't actually know
24 what the Bar recommended for Mr. Coughlin.
25 But when I was able to see him in June, and

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1 review his records in July, I was convinced that he had

2 made his best efforts. That he had said -- that I had
3 suggested that he be in counseling with a stronger
4 counselor two or three times a week. He attempted to do
5 that three times a week, but MediCal wouldn't approve
6 three times a week, so one of his counselors backed out.
7 But the reports from the counselors were
8 positive about his efforts and his attempt to engage in
9 his own issues rather than what's often the case, looking
10 for a way to blame your problems on somebody else.
11 think that is what I observed in Mr. Coughlin.

12 By January of 2015, he finally appears to have
13 taken control of his own ship and made the efforts,
14 basically stopped complaining. And again it's even
15 reflected in his counseling notes that he was taking on
16 his own personal problems and had decided to solve them
17 himself. He chose to discontinue his alcohol use and be
18 substance free. He attended the counseling as he could
19 afford it. He, in fact, moved to San Diego and became a
20 painter's helper rather than an attorney.
21 So the summary of my second letter is that I
22 think he's done what I suggested, and I think to his
23 benefit. I also did speak with his father. And his
24 father, in fact, had also observed what he described as a
25 remarkable change in Mr. Coughlin. And, in fact, the

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1 father and family had visited Mr. Coughlin in San Diego,

2 had reconnected with him. His father's description was
3 very positive about Zach's change in attitude, including
4 his capacity to apologize to people whom he had probably
5 hurt over a period of years, including his stepmother and
6 stepsister.
7 And so I thought that on a personal level was
8 another remarkable step forward for Mr. Coughlin.
9 At this point what I had said in my letter,
10 and it's certainly not up to me to make a decision whether
11 he is reinstated. But if he's reinstated at this point, I
12 would certainly encourage the Bar to create a structured
13 reentry for Mr. Coughlin, including random alcohol
14 screenings, a requirement that he continue his attendance
15 at Alcoholics Anonymous on a high-frequency basis with
16 reports to the Bar, and engage in serious counseling with
17 a qualified counselor.
18 It doesn't have to be a psychologist. The
19 marriage and family therapist or psychiatric social
20 workers are fine. It just has to be somebody strong
21 enough to keep Mr. Coughlin focused on his needs to
22 improve and his own responsibilities.
23 So when he had chosen to move to San Diego, in
24 particular Dr. Hoar I thought was a qualified person.
25 Reading her notes I would encourage him to return to that

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1 counselor, if he can.
2 In addition to monitoring those things, I
3 think there ought to be a quarterly report from the
4 counselor back to the Bar to discuss his continued ability
5 to maintain his focus and, in fact, his efforts to improve
6 character.
7 So that's how I summarize my experience with
8 Mr. Coughlin. Do you need more?
10 MR. COUGHLIN: I have a couple quick
11 questions.
12 BY MR. COUGHLIN:
13 Q Dr. Nielsen, were you aware that the first two
14 arrests at issue in the disability petition occurred
15 within a couple weeks of myself, the Petitioner, abruptly
16 ceasing to take both Adderall and Wellbutrin, and instead
17 dealing with the effects of coming off of those by
18 relapsing on dextromethorphan or over-the-counter cough
19 medication?
20 A I was aware of that, yes.
21 Q Do you see any -- did you see that as
22 significant in the arrest or somehow some causal
23 correlation or connection in there?
24 A I think there's some important connection.
25 don't know that I would say it's a causal relationship.

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1 In fact, I believe it was symptomatic. My impression is

2 that you were floundering. You had reached a point where
3 there were too many difficulties for you to overcome, and
4 your choices were poor choices.
5 And so it is a combination of alcohol, of
6 choosing to use or not use prescribed medications. But
7 all of those were, from my point of view, more symptomatic
8 of what I saw as your unraveling at that point.
9 The arrests themselves were further stressors.
10 But the way you chose to cope with those I think was
11 inadequate. I think that's why I said in my original
12 report that I did believe that you were not able to
13 practice law at the time of that evaluation, and that
14 eventually I saw you as a disabled counselor.
15 That actually, from my point of view, sets -16 that's what was going on at that point in time. Not at
17 the point of the arrest, but at the point where I
18 evaluated you. All those things had an impact. But I
19 think the cause is more a combination of stressors with
20 which you didn't adequately cope.
21 When I look at that a year later, that's
22 actually my assessment is that you finally got enough of
23 your self-control to put things in better perspective.
24 But I don't think I would say this was caused by Adderall
25 or the lack of Adderall.

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1 Q Or by ingesting massive quantities of a

2 disassociative in dextromethorphan?
3 A Well, again, I think that was your solution at
4 the time, I don't think -- and that becomes a symptom of
5 the problem. I don't think that was the cause.
6 Q Okay. So Dr. Nielsen, getting into mitigation
7 aspects. All the misconduct or misbehavior detailed in
8 the disability petition, in your opinion would you say
9 that there was an absence of a dishonest or selfish motive
10 on the Petitioner's part exhibited in all that behavior,
11 but rather just such being symptomatic of a level of
12 dysfunction in the Petitioner's life?
13 A I don't know how to answer that. In all
14 honestly, I think you were scrambling, and I think you
15 were grasping at whatever you could. Those things tended
16 to be ineffective.
17 I don't know about motive. I think your
18 motive at the time was survival. Your choice of solution
19 was poor.
20 Q To compare that to somebody who is functioning
21 at a fairly high level, who is convicted of theft, would
22 you say that might exhibit more of a dishonest or selfish
23 motive than one of Petitioner's circumstances at the time,
24 whereas you say he was just scrambling to survive?
25 A Yes. Again, I think the theft wasn't -- from

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1 what I understand, I think one of the thefts was I think

2 you were drinking cough syrup in the store without paying
3 for it. And that was you believing that you needed the
4 cough syrup to survive. It wasn't exactly I'm going to
5 steal it because I want to.
6 I don't want to overdo this. I have a limited
7 amount of information about your actual motive at the time
8 of the crimes. As I look at the pattern, I saw all of it
9 as sort of knee-jerk solutions to problems that were
10 greater than you believed.
11 And so again it's that conflagration of events
12 that came together. I don't think you -- I guess I should
13 go back to my original report. I don't think you have an
14 antisocial personality disorder. I don't think you're a
15 sociopath. You weren't choosing to do those things just
16 for the fun of it. You were panicked. And that was my
17 overall impression.
18 Q Could you say the Petitioner throughout the
19 period of time in which the various events detailed in the
20 petition occurred, would you say the Petitioner was going
21 through personal or emotional problems?
22 A Yes.
23 Q Would you say throughout that same period the
24 Petitioner had a mental disability or chemical dependency
25 including alcoholism or drug abuse?

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1 A Well, I did believe there was an alcohol

2 dependency that affected this. And I think that was one
3 of the factors.
4 I also think there was mental and emotional
5 issues that impacted your behavior and your ability to
6 function. And that's essentially what I said in the
7 report is that based on that standard, I didn't think you
8 could function as an attorney because of both the
9 addiction factored in as well as the mental and emotional
10 symptoms that I described.
11 Q Would you say the chemical dependency or
12 mental disability caused the misconduct?
13 A I don't think I can make a causal statement.
14 I can make a statement that they certainly interact. But
15 it's more complex than simply this caused this.
16 Q Are you aware that the standards for
17 mitigation in Nevada to, if you will, be more forgiving or
18 have more understanding of one's misconduct include a
19 prong which asks whether or not the chemical dependency or
20 mental illness caused the misconduct? And if that be
21 established, then some more mitigation would be found?
22 A Again, I don't have the statute in front of
23 me, so I don't have that standard here. I do believe that
24 the standard I'm responding to in my report, however, when
25 I did say that I believe as a result of these things that

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1 you were at that time disabled and unable to function as

2 an attorney.
3 Q Okay.
4 A I also said that I did believe with adequate
5 treatment and adequate commitment on your own part that
6 you can recover and return to a point where you can
7 function adequately as an attorney. In my second report
8 that's basically what it says, that I thought that you had
9 adequately addressed those issues to now be to a point
10 where you were able to function independently and might be
11 considered to return to the Bar.
12 The causal language in the standard, I can
13 take my report response to that directly, even though I
14 said I was at the moment being cautious about the causal
15 statement, I think it does say that in the report.
16 Q Doctor, the third prong in the SCR 105.2.(i)
17 mitigation analysis which essentially finds mitigation
18 where the following.
19 Would you say on Prong 3, the Respondent's
20 recovery from the chemical dependency or mental disability
21 is demonstrated by his meaningful and sustained period of
22 successful rehabilitation?
23 A Yes.
24 Q Do you find that to be the case here?
25 A That's my understanding. One of the things I

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1 explained to you is that -- and I think the way I put it

2 to you is you're not finished. I think you've taken the
3 necessary steps toward recovery.
4 I do understand that you have been alcohol
5 free for a period of time, and I think that counts.
6 also see that you have done constructive things to right

7 your own ship, and that counts. So I'm willing to say
8 that I recommend that the petition be considered, although
9 I'm not the one who makes the decision.
10 But that's why I recommended relatively strict
11 supervisory standards around it. That, yes, I think
12 you're functioning. You're not under the influence of
13 alcohol at this point. You're not under the influence of
14 other medication. And your mental and emotional health
15 are enough improved that I think you can stand on your own
16 two feet.
17 So yes, I think that you have met that
18 standard, and you have met the rehabilitative standard.
19 Q So did you find that to be the case with
20 respect to both the chemical dependency and a mental
21 disability?
22 A Yes. I think that you have been away from the
23 alcohol long enough that it's no longer affecting your
24 thinking and your direct behavior. I think that in the
25 meantime you've also on your own sought some of the

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1 counseling things that I recommended. And I do believe by

2 the time I saw you the second time you were certainly
3 thinking differently and more motivated to the cause of
4 your action rather than just being defensive wanting to
5 fight back.
6 So yes, I think in my view you have met the
7 rehabilitative standard, as I said. And I think in
8 Alcoholics Anonymous they take this very seriously.
9 You're never fully recovered. This is a lifelong pattern.
10 But you've been able now to sustain the pattern for many
11 months, and I think that counts.
12 Q Do you find it significant that the Petitioner
13 here has ceased taking Adderall?
14 A I think Adderall has good and bad effects.
15 And it's prescribed medication, prescribed for a reason,
16 and it's effective for what it's used for. However, it's
17 also something that can be abused. And in your case I
18 think that the Adderall in conjunction with alcohol
19 created more problems than it was worth to you.
20 For you to have stopped the Adderall and found
21 a way to function with -- I think you were diagnosed ADHD
22 from the past -- without the medication is, again, a
23 tribute to you efforts.
24 Adderall might make your life easier, but it
25 runs so many risks with you that you're better off without

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1 it.
2 Q Do you think the use of Adderall here might
3 have contributed to some of the Petitioner's inappropriate
4 filing and/or antagonistic behavior with the various
5 authorities detailed in the petition?
6 A I think that's possible. The effect of
7 Adderall, Adderall is a stimulant medication. So with the
8 more frightening stimulants, methamphetamine, when people
9 take those kinds of drugs they become very manic and very
10 hyperactive and hostile and use poor judgment.
11 Adderall doesn't usually stimulate that set of
12 events because it's usually taken in much smaller doses.
13 But if you begin to add Adderall to dextromethorphan or
14 you begin to add Adderall to alcohol it becomes harder to
15 predict.
16 So there has been an element in your -- when
17 you seem to be overly stressed and begin making poor
18 judgments, you tend to exacerbate that with a hyperactive
19 display or almost a hypomanic display. And it's again my
20 reason for arguing Adderall probably isn't a drug of
21 choice for you. You're going to have to go it on your
22 own. You don't need the alcohol, and I think you'll find
23 a way to not need the Adderall.
24 Q Doctor, the fourth prong of that mitigation
25 analysis, do you find that the recovery arrested

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1 misconduct, and that a recurrence of that misconduct is

2 unlikely here?
3 A Well, I think based on your recovery efforts
4 to this point you have reduced the risk. I think that the
5 reason that I was adamant about creating a structured
6 reintroduction is that, as I said, I think you're not
7 done. I think you've done all you can do. I don't think
8 there are other things that you could have done to this
9 point. It's early.
10 As I think you're aware, when we talk about
11 recovery with alcohol or other things, they often take a
12 while, and it's a long-term commitment. In the meantime,
13 as I said, I think you've done all the things you could
14 do, and you've been consistent, and you've been persistent
15 with that.
16 I think that if you find yourself getting
17 agitated and doing hyperactive things that you need to
18 talk to yourself about that. Okay. What's going on here?
19 What am I doing? But I don't think you need the
20 medication.
21 Since you've stopped the medication and the
22 alcohol, then yes, I can say the recovery has had the
23 beneficial effect of returning you to a point where you
24 have more ability to take responsibility for yourself and
25 your actions, better judgment, and better commitment to

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1 improving yourself, making yourself safe for our society.

2 Q On that note would you say the Petitioner has
3 made a timely, good faith effort to make restitution or to
4 rectify the consequences of his misconduct?
5 A To the extent that you have made the effort to
6 recover, yes. I don't know what other restitution would
7 have been required, so I don't know the whole package.
8 But I do know that if the question is have you made a
9 good-faith effort to bring yourself back to an adequate
10 level of functioning, I would say yes.
11 Q Would you say that the Petitioner, when
12 meeting with you, divulged more to you than was actually
13 even covered in the disability petition?
14 A I think that's true.
15 Q Would you say that evidenced or was evidence
16 of a full and free disclosure to disciplinary authorities
17 or displaying a cooperative attitude toward the
18 proceeding?
19 A As far as my role goes, yes.
20 Q Other than the misconduct at issue, are you
21 aware of the Petitioner having character or a good
22 reputation?
23 A I'm not sure about that, Mr. Coughlin. With
24 the records that I reviewed beyond the interviews and
25 testing with you, didn't necessarily reflect a lot about

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1 your actual character other than the observations that are

2 current. But I didn't have contact with high school
3 friends or college buddies or enough of a history that
4 would establish a change.
5 Q Doctor, would you say in your review of the
6 various materials you were provided that you were
7 impressed with the Petitioner's efforts to advocate on
8 behalf of tenants' rights and the rights of those
9 subjects' competency proceedings, and those dealing with
10 rights to counsel issues and other various altruistic
11 pursuits
12 relative to the law?
13 A I don't think I'm qualified to make that
14 statement. I'm not an attorney, and I'm not an actual
15 expert on attorneys and law. I believe that the
16 improvements that I see place you in a position where I
17 think you could practice law. About what law, I wouldn't
18 know. I don't have the capacity to evaluate your ability
19 to conduct a specific legal proceeding.
20 I don't know -- frankly, I don't know enough
21 about your legal training or expertise. That's outside
22 the scope of my ability.
23 Q Would you say that you found yourself agreeing
24 with Petitioner with respect to some of the various things
25 relative to competency evaluations and things of that

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1 like?
2 A Again, you're asking me a question about a
3 specific legal knowledge set, and I don't know how I would
4 evaluate that capacity. I think only an attorney could
5 evaluate that specific capacity.
6 Q Well, did you find yourself at various points
7 in interacting with the Petitioner essentially saying to
8 yourself, yeah, I feel that way too. I don't like it when
9 that person does this or that, or I don't necessarily
10 approve of the approach this or that person takes in those
11 settings?
12 A I probably did that. And yes, I think there
13 were points in our discussion when I could agree with your
14 viewpoint or opinion. To me that's different from
15 evaluating your competency to function in a specific area.
16 Q To the extent that I would gather, and I think
17 you should, but you view yourself as having character, a
18 good character, would you say that the congruence of your
19 opinions and the Petitioner's opinions in those various
20 contexts could lend support for you to find the Petitioner
21 has character?
22 A Yes. I don't have a problem saying that you
23 have the character to function as an attorney or as an
24 altruistic human being. All I'm saying is I would limit
25 my statement to the generality that I think without the

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1 alcohol and the Adderall and the high stress that you were
2 under that you're much more able to function with a higher
3 level of character, that I think you are capable of
4 generosity and kindness and things that you may not have
5 been able to do under the influence.
6 And so yes, I think that there's evidence that
7 your character is more solid today than it was a year ago.
8 Q Would you say that the Petitioner displayed
9 remorse or contrition with respect to the various
10 misconduct detailed in the petition and otherwise?
11 A I think that's more obvious today than it was
12 a year ago, yes.
13 Q Just to wind this down with respect to my
14 questions. Would you say the Petitioner is no longer
15 disabled?
16 A I think the Petitioner is no longer disabled.
17 Q Would you say the Petitioner is fit to
18 practice law?
19 A To the extent that I'm able, I think that, you
20 know, it's -- I don't see at this point an impediment in
21 your emotional or mental health or your general character
22 to prevent you from functioning as an attorney.
23 Q Would you say that -- okay.
24 Would you say the Petitioner has the requisite
25 competency and skill in the law at this time?

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1 MS. FLOCCHINI: Objection. Beyond the scope.

2 MS. JENKINS: Doctor, I'm going to sustain the
3 objection and say that the question is beyond the scope of
4 your testimony today. So objection sustained.
5 THE WITNESS: Thank you.
6 MR. COUGHLIN: I think that's all I have, your
7 Honor.
9 Ms. Flocchini, do you have questions for the
10 doctor?
11 CROSS-EXAMINATION
12 BY MS. FLOCCHINI:
13 Q I just have a few. Thank you for taking time
14 out of your vacation for us, Dr. Nielsen. I know
15 Mr. Coughlin greatly appreciates it and so does the State
16 Bar.
17 A Thank you. You're welcome.
18 Q I will try to keep my questions brief.
19 In your professional opinion, how long does it
20 take to establish a relationship with a therapist?
21 A A trusting relationship. It takes a long time
22 for the relationship to develop. To establish the
23 relationship probably takes a matter of weeks. I believe
24 in my own practice I have established pretty solid
25 relationships with people within three to six weeks.

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1 Q You indicated earlier that you have reviewed

2 documents that were provided by the medical providers,
3 including Bill Martin, who is a marriage and family
4 therapist who has been working with Mr. Coughlin; correct?
5 A Correct.
6 Q And you also reviewed documents provided by
7 Dr. Hoar as well who met with Mr. Coughlin for a few
8 months; correct?
9 A Correct.
10 Q You indicated that you felt Dr. Hoar's methods
11 were very good. What about Dr Hoar's methods were you
12 particularly keen on; do you remember off the top of your
13 head?
14 A Yes. Dr. Hoar specifically -- and, by the
15 way, I did speak with Mr. Martin and Dr. Hoar as well as
16 reading the records. Dr. Hoar's approach that she
17 described is a form of dielectric behavior therapy, and
18 also a newer form of therapy that is generally called
19 mindfulness, so it gets mixed up with some other things.
20 And those two types of therapy are really the
21 forefront of effective psychotherapy today. And so the
22 fact that Dr. Hoar practices those things and understands
23 what they are was meaningful to me as the direction
24 Mr. Coughlin needs to go. I am not available to take
25 Mr. Coughlin on as an individual client. But if I were,

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1 those are the approaches that I would be using.

2 I don't mean anything negative about
3 Mr. Martin, but I think he's more traditional in his
4 approach and may not have some of the specific information
5 about psychotherapy that Dr. Hoar seems to have.
6 Q How much concern does it cause you or raise in
7 your mind that Mr. Coughlin chose to continue with
8 Dr. Martin than with Dr. Hoar?
9 A I don't really think he made the choice.
10 think, the way I understood it from Mr. Martin and

11 Dr. Hoar, Dr. Hoar is the one who discovered that they
12 were both billing MediCal, so she had contacted
13 Mr. Coughlin to say you established with Mr. Martin first,
14 one of us has to leave.
15 He was seeing Dr. Hoar only once a week and
16 seeing Martin twice, so I think it was actually Dr. Hoar's
17 decision to break away from it as a professional courtesy.
18 I didn't get the impression that it was something that
19 Mr. Coughlin chose.
20 On the other hand, as I said, I don't have
21 anything against Mr. Martin. I was more impressed with
22 what I saw with Dr. Hoar. But I don't think he was trying
23 to get rid of Dr. Hoar.
24 She was very clear that she would continue
25 with him if he chose and was very comfortable with him,

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1 and felt that they did have an -- established a clear

2 relationship.
3 Q Thank you. You're aware that Mr. Coughlin
4 began seeing both Dr. Hoar and Mr. Martin in late April of
5 2015; correct?
6 A Yes, I'm aware of the dates, and initially
7 that concerned me. But what I realized later is that
8 Mr. Coughlin was seeing people at the NAMS while he was in
9 Reno. By going to San Diego he had to be approved for
10 MediCal, and that took three months. It takes three
11 months. So he didn't have the funding.
12 As I said, I wish he had started sooner, but I
13 don't know if he had the capacity. Once he did have
14 MediCal approval, he got two counselors, which I applaud
15 him for. But he didn't get that started as soon as I had
16 hoped, but I understood that it's a financial thing.
17 Q I appreciate that. Were you able to review
18 the medical records from NAMS, the Northern Nevada Adult
19 Mental Health Services organization?
20 A Yes.
21 Q And so you saw in those medical records that
22 Mr. Coughlin was not receiving therapy services from NAMS
23 from approximately September of 2014, and then of course
24 he discontinued services when he moved to San Diego in
25 about January of 2015. You saw that; right?

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1 A Yes.
2 Q And does it cause you concern -- well, let me
3 ask you.
4 Have you read Mr. Martin's letter that was
5 produced to the State Bar, I believe it's a letter of
6 recommendation from Mr. Martin?
7 A I did read that, yes.
8 Q Does it cause you concern that Mr. Martin
9 feels that participating in a 12-step program is more
10 helpful to Mr. Coughlin than therapy might be?
11 A That does raise concerns. And I would say
12 it's one of my motives for stating that I would be happier
13 if he was seeing Dr. Hoar.
14 I think Mr. Martin -- I think Mr. Martin is
15 involved in AA and sees that as a path, but rather he was
16 involved with someone who understands AA, but does
17 psychotherapy rather than leaning on the AA model, and I
18 think that's the difference between the two of those.
19 Q Are you aware that Mr. Coughlin has
20 represented that he's completed over a hundred hours of
21 continuing legal education between August 14th and August
22 19th?
23 A I am aware of that because you told me.
24 Q Yes. And that information had been provided
25 to the State Bar. How much of a concern does that raise

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1 for you regarding Mr. Coughlin's ability to be stable

2 while practicing?
3 A It doesn't. Again, I think it's evidence that
4 he's under a great deal of stress. And when that happens
5 he, as I described before, he becomes somewhat hypomanic.
6 But I'm not seeing anything destructive in it.
7 I don't know what he exactly did to get the
8 hundred hours. Again, I think we discussed this. I know
9 when I did continuing education credits on-line it doesn't
10 seem to take me as long as the credits say they will. So
11 I don't know that he's spent exactly a hundred hours, but
12 he got credit for that.
13 I think it's a symptom of his style to try to
14 do everything he possibly can, even if it happens to be at
15 the last minute.
16 Q Does it cause you any concern as to whether or
17 not when entering a stressful practice of law Mr. Coughlin
18 will be able to maintain his emotional and mental
19 stability?
20 A Well, it's the reason I keep saying I think he
21 needs to be in ongoing counseling. Because I think if he
22 has a counselor as an anchor that he can speak to weekly
23 and talk about, okay, this is strategy, this is where I'm
24 going. As long the alcohol and the Adderall don't get
25 back involved, I think he will be able to function fine.

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1 I do think he needs some guidance, but that's been

2 recommended all along.
3 Q Are you aware of a report from a Dr. Hunter
4 from 2002 regarding Mr. Coughlin?
5 A I don't recall that, no.
6 Q There was a report to the admissions
7 department at the State Bar indicating that there were
8 some emotional stability concerns with respect to
9 Mr. Coughlin, and that Dr. Hunter believed that to be a
10 symptom or that his behavior was a symptom of an
11 adjustment reaction in 2002.
12 Is that consistent with your understanding or
13 your perception of what happens when there are major
14 stressors for Mr. Coughlin?
15 A Well, I don't know Dr. Hunter.
16 Q I appreciate that.
17 A I don't have the context. I don't have what
18 was going on at the time. But adjustment reaction is a
19 diagnosis used by many mental health practitioners
20 to basically say this is a relatively mild problem. It's
21 solvable. And they have to have a diagnosis for insurance
22 purposes.
23 Q Okay.
24 A And so, if you recall, it was an adjustment
25 reaction of what type? Was it -- whether it concerns

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1 conduct or whether it concerns emotion. That would also

2 be part of the context. Do you even know what Dr. Hunter
3 is; doctor of what?
4 Q My understanding that Dr. Hunter is a
5 psychiatrist.
6 A Okay.
7 Q You're aware that Mr. Coughlin is currently in
8 San Diego; correct?
9 A Yes. When I spoke with him he was in San
10 Diego.
11 Q Does it raise concern for you that
12 Mr. Coughlin has established a good network in San Diego
13 and is doing well, but to practice law he will have to
14 leave that network and relocate to Nevada?
15 A Actually, I think the fact that Mr. Coughlin
16 moved to San Diego, and within a relatively short period
17 of time established a stable network is proof of his
18 ability. So I'm not concerned about that.
19 I would want to be sure if he moves back to
20 Nevada that he reaches out to the resources that he's
21 already established. And I did discuss this with
22 Mr. Coughlin.
23 He recently got his law degree from Boyd in
24 Las Vegas, and has many, as many connections in Las Vegas
25 as Reno. What I originally said was get out of town,

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1 leave Reno. There's too many bad things here for you, and
2 you're not overcoming. So he did, he went to San Diego.
3 I would strongly encourage him to come back to
4 Vegas rather than Reno. But that's just my advice.
5 But I think in San Diego, like I said, he sort
6 of started with nothing in San Diego, got a job as a
7 painter's assistant, began attending AA on a regular
8 basis, made these connections with people, and is well
9 established. And people do like him. The people I spoke
10 to are very fond of Mr. Coughlin, very encouraging about
11 his success. And nobody has known him a very long time.
12 So I think he has the social skills, and the
13 social ability to actually adapt to any situation. I'm
14 not real worried about that.
15 MS. FLOCCHINI: Thank you for your time and
16 your commitment to seeing Mr. Coughlin through on this.
17 THE WITNESS: You're welcome.
18 MS. JENKINS: Does the panel have any
19 questions for Dr. Nielsen?
20 MR. FURMAN: Dr. Nielsen, at a point you said
21 there are too many triggers in Reno. What are you
22 thinking the possibility of that recurring at this time?
23 THE WITNESS: I don't know. He's been gone
24 from Reno for several months. Some of the things that I
25 felt were triggers before seem to have been resolved, like

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1 his antagonism among family members. His family's

2 actually very impressed with the progress he's made, and I
3 think they would welcome him back. So that's one of the
4 things that was here before that I wouldn't worry about as
5 much.
6 I know that he had some rather antagonistic
7 relationships with some other attorneys, I don't know if
8 those would pop back up or not. I don't know how to put
9 this, it's not really a professional thing. I would
10 encourage him to go to Vegas because I think it would be
11 easier. I don't think that means he can't make it in
12 Reno. I just think he has to protect himself. Nobody
13 else is going to do that. And he has to be ready to face
14 criticism and awkwardness and things that are in the wake
15 of what he's created himself in Reno.
16 MR. FURMAN: Thank you, Doctor.
17 MS. JENKINS: Other questions from panel
18 members?
19 MR. LOW: Dr. Nielsen, this is Keegan Low, one
20 of the panel members here.
21 I'm just trying to establish a timeline. You
22 first saw Mr. Coughlin in July of 2014?
23 THE WITNESS: I believe so, yes. I don't have
24 the records in front of me, but I think I first saw him at
25 the request of the Bar to conduct this evaluation in July,

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1 and then I spent time with him. But I also spent time
2 talking to other people and reviewing records. So I don't
3 think your office got my report until September.
4 MR. LOW: And then I believe you testified
5 that you then saw Mr. Coughlin recently in June of this
6 year; is that correct?
7 THE WITNESS: Yes, that's correct, June 26th.
8 MR. LOW: Did you see him between those two
9 dates?
10 THE WITNESS: No.
11 MR. LOW: From the history that you took at
12 those examinations that you had with Mr. Coughlin, what's
13 your understanding of when he ceased taking alcohol?
14 THE WITNESS: Well, actually, I think he
15 had -- I think he had stopped multiple times. But I'm not
16 sure I have this right. Again, I don't have the records
17 in front of me. My understanding is that there might have
18 been some relapse. As I recall, the last relapse that was
19 described to me had been in about April of 2014.
20 Again, I don't have any records here, and I
21 would have to go back and crosscheck that to see what's
22 written down.
23 MR. LOW: Do you have an understanding of
24 currently what medications Mr. Coughlin might be taking or
25 having prescribed to him, if any?

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1 THE WITNESS: I thought he was free from

2 medication. I thought he was not taking anything at this
3 time right now.
4 MR. LOW: The change in location appears to
5 have been your recommendation to Mr. Coughlin?
6 THE WITNESS: Yes. I didn't say go to San
7 Diego, I just said I think you will be better off getting
8 out of Reno and getting a day job. Do something that you
9 can do with your hands and clear your head. And he did
10 that.
11 MR. LOW: Thank you, Doctor.
13 MS. JENKINS: Other panel members?
14 Mr. Coughlin, of course you get the last word.
15 MR. COUGHLIN: I just have a couple questions.
16 MS. JENKINS: Please.
17 REDIRECT EXAMINATION
18 BY MR. COUGHLIN:
19 Q If you were aware the Petitioner is taking
20 Wellbutrin, would you have any concern with that?
21 A No. Wellbutrin is an antidepressant. It's
22 inside the class of SSRIs. It's a relatively safe
23 medication, and it doesn't contribute to any of the side
24 effects that would be attributed to Adderall and Ritalin
25 or the stimulants.

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1 Q Is it your experience with on-line continuing

2 education courses that sometimes you'll listen to them,
3 and need to listen for a participation code, and that you
4 can do that for weeks, and then log on-line and type in
5 all those codes, but that doesn't necessarily mean you did
6 all those hours the day you typed in those codes and got
7 the certificates?
8 A Actually, in my profession I hadn't thought
9 about that, but it works just as you describe. I may have
10 a book to read and have it for six months, but when I
11 enter the code to take the test, that's the day I get the
12 credit. So yeah, that's a possibility I hadn't -- again,
13 you and I have never spoken about the credits, so I didn't
14 know whether those were all done in one week or not.
15 Q Was there any time that you felt Steve Harris
16 was disabled from the practice of law?
17 MS. FLOCCHINI: Objection. Relevance.
18 MS. JENKINS: Do you have a counter?
19 MR. COUGHLIN: Well, the doctor testified at
20 Steve Harris's hearing, and it might not be that relevant.
21 MS. JENKINS: Objection sustained.
22 No need to answer that question, Dr. Nielsen.
23 THE WITNESS: Thank you.
24 MR. COUGHLIN: That's all I have. Thank you,
25 Dr. Nielsen.

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1 MS. JENKINS: Dr. Nielsen, we appreciate your

2 time and energy today on your vacation, and the work that
3 you have done to do your report.
4 Is there anything that you're aware of in your
5 initial report or your most recent report that is no
6 longer true, as far as you know?
7 THE WITNESS: I don't know how to answer that.
8 I mean, I do think there have been changes from one report
9 to the next.
10 MS. JENKINS: I understand. That was a poorly
11 asked question.
12 When you wrote the first report, have you
13 subsequently learned that anything in that was erroneous?
14 THE WITNESS: Not that I recall.
15 MS. JENKINS: When you wrote your follow-up
16 evaluation, have you since that time learned that any of
17 the information in that report is erroneous?
18 THE WITNESS: No, not that I know of.
19 MS. JENKINS: Great. Those are the answers
20 we're looking for.
21 Anything further, Counsel?
23 MS. FLOCCHINI: No.
24 MS. JENKINS: You are released to your
25 vacation, sir. I appreciate your time.

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1 Other witnesses?
2 MR. COUGHLIN: Yes, your Honor. If I can
3 briefly use the rest room.
4 MS. JENKINS: I think that's a grand idea.
5 Let's take five.
6 (Recess taken.)
7 MS. JENKINS: Let's go back on the record.
8 It's 10:40, and we're going to go until 11:30. Please
9 proceed with your next witness, Mr. Coughlin.
10 MR. COUGHLIN: If possible, I would like to
11 call my AA sponsor and have him testify.
12 MS. JENKINS: You mean telephonically?
14 MS. FLOCCHINI: What's the name of that
15 person?
16 MR. COUGHLIN: Miles Warsh. W-a-r-s-h.
17 MS. JENKINS: Has that name been disclosed to
18 the other side?
20 MS. JENKINS: Ms. Flocchini, any comments,
21 objections, otherwise?
22 MS. FLOCCHINI: I don't remember the
23 disclosure, but I do not have an objection. Thank you.
24 MS. JENKINS: Thank you. There's the
25 telephone. Can you assist Mr. Coughlin in getting his

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1 sponsor on the phone.

2 (Discussion off the record.)
3 (Telephone call placed.)
4 MR. COUGHLIN: You are on the record to
5 testify before the Northern Nevada Disciplinary Board.
6 appreciate you making yourself available.

7 MILES WARSH
11 DIRECT EXAMINATION.
12 BY MR. COUGHLIN:
13 Q Thanks again, Miles, for making yourself
14 available. For the record, I think you might need to
15 spell your name for the record and state where you live.
16 A My name is Miles, M-i-l-e-s. Warsh,
17 W-a-r-s-h.
18 Q And you live in San Diego?
19 A I do. San Diego, California.
20 Q And I will be referring to myself as the
21 Petitioner. Hopefully that won't be too confusing.
22 Are you the Petitioner's sponsor in some
23 context?
24 A I am.
25 Q How long has that been the case?

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1 A Since the first or second week of January

2 2015.
3 Q Have you met approximately weekly for several
4 hours a week with the Petitioner?
5 A I have.
6 Q Can you describe that?
7 A Yes. We get together, and we do step work
8 related to recovery. Read the big book, talk about what
9 is going on and how to handle situations.
10 Q Do you do that approximately a couple hours
11 every Monday night?
12 A Yes.
13 Q Do you see the Petitioner at recovery meetings
14 regularly?
15 A Absolutely, yes. At least weekly.
16 Q Have you witnessed the Petitioner exhibiting
17 remorse or contrition for some of his conduct in the past?
18 A Yes. Absolutely I have, yes.
19 Q Do you feel the Petitioner has good character?
20 A Yes. Yes, I do.
21 Q What's the Petitioner's reputation amongst
22 individuals that you know in the San Diego area?
23 A Oh, within the recovery community Zach is a
24 loved and valued part of the community.
25 Q Do you feel the Petitioner is disabled at this

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1 point for the purposes of practicing law?

2 A No, I don't. I've seen, you know, an amazing
3 ability. I wouldn't see any reason for that judgment to
4 be made.
5 Q As far as you know, has the Petitioner
6 remained sober throughout the period of time you've known
7 him?
8 A Yes. Absolutely clean and sober and working a
9 program of recovery.
10 Q Do you feel the Petitioner is fit to practice
11 law?
12 A I do, yes, in my opinion. I think the
13 Petitioner, Mr. Coughlin, can do anything.
14 MR. COUGHLIN: Nothing further, your Honor.
15 Thank you, Mr. Warsh.
16 THE WITNESS: You're welcome. Is there
17 anything else I can do?
18 MS. JENKINS: Yes. Ms. Flocchini has a couple
19 of question for you, sir.
20 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. Who am I speaking
21 with?
22 MS. JENKINS: I'm sorry. My name is Caren
23 Jenkins. I'm the chair of a five-member panel meeting
24 today.
25 THE WITNESS: Hi, Caren.

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1 MS. JENKINS: Hello. Thank you for being

2 here.
4 MS. JENKINS: Ms. Flocchini is with the State
5 Bar of Nevada. She will cross-examine you. I will then
6 ask if the panel members have questions for you, then
7 we'll give Mr. Coughlin the last word.
9 CROSS-EXAMINATION
11 Q Good morning, Mr. Warsh. This is Kait
12 Flocchini on behalf of the State Bar.
13 A Hi, Kait.
14 Q Mr. Warsh, are you an attorney?
15 A I am not.
16 Q Are you aware of the stressors that are
17 involved in practicing law?
18 A Pardon me? I didn't hear your question.
19 Q Sure. I can repeat it.
20 Are you aware of the stressors that are
21 involved in practicing law?
22 A No, I'm not. I don't practice law.
23 Q Is your general -- your impression of
24 Mr. Coughlin's ability to practice is based strictly on
25 your personal observations of his work in his recovery

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1 program?
2 A Yes.
3 Q But not on anything that you know about
4 practicing law; correct?
5 A Well, again, I don't practice law. I own and
6 operate several businesses. And I'm very aware of the
7 stress that it takes to manage people and manage payroll
8 and cash flow. And I don't practice law, but, you know, I
9 manage a group of people and, you know, produce a certain
10 amount of billable hours every day. I have daily, weekly,
11 monthly goals.
12 So I'm not saying that my business, my
13 businesses are in any way similar to a law practice, but I
14 think that Zach could do anything that I do. It's just my
15 opinion having gotten to know him very intimately and see
16 how he operates and handles things in his daily life.
17 MS. FLOCCHINI: Those are all the questions
18 that I have for you. Thank you for taking the time,
19 Mr. Warsh.
20 THE WITNESS: You're very welcome.
21 MS. JENKINS: Mr. Warsh, I'm going to start
22 the panel's questions.
23 You referred to one of the things that you do
24 on Monday nights of step work related to recovery,
25 including an activity called "reading the big book." What

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1 does that mean?

2 THE WITNESS: It's a book. The book is kind
3 of a text. And if you're unfamiliar with it, it's just, I
4 can share in a general way that it's a book of spiritual
5 principles about how to handle daily life and situations.
6 And it's a basis for living your life one day at a time
7 successfully.
8 MS. JENKINS: Great. That's a nice synopsis.
9 You were asked whether the Petitioner has
10 shown any remorse for his actions, and your answer was
11 yes. Can you tell me what it is that you relied on to
12 come to that conclusion?
13 THE WITNESS: Well, we have personal, you
14 know, conversations and relations at an intimate level.
15 And he has shared with me, you know, a number of issues
16 that he had in the past, and legal problems, and all of -17 the sum of all of those things that's brought Mr. Coughlin
18 to sit in front of this panel today.
19 And, you know, we have looked at all of those
20 instances and situations and dug down into the how, what
21 and why of it. And he's incredibly like remorseful. And,
22 you know, he's looking to make amends for those things and
23 knows it's just not acceptable behavior.
24 MS. JENKINS: Great. And you also were asked
25 whether the Petitioner exhibits character. Well, that's a

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1 very, very generic word.

2 THE WITNESS: It is.
3 MS. JENKINS: Can you give me an idea of how
4 you decided to say yes, I think he has character?
5 THE WITNESS: I can tell you exactly why.
6 MS. JENKINS: Great.
7 THE WITNESS: You know the program that we
8 participate in doesn't have a very large success rate.
9 Most people are unwilling to look at their character flaws
10 and their defects and their poor behavior. And frankly,
11 they just don't make it. They don't get clean and sober,
12 they don't stay so.
13 And Mr. Coughlin shows up. He is incredibly
14 honest. He's been very remorseful, in my opinion. I've
15 done this work with a lot of men over a number of years,
16 and he's been very, very willing to share and look at his
17 part in these situations which, as he's identified, has
18 been the whole part.
19 And it takes, you know, it takes someone of
20 character to be willing to look at themselves with gut
21 level honesty and own their behavior and be willing to go
22 to any length to makes amends for it. He shows up. He
23 has done all of this work very rigorously. He
24 participates in groups that I belong to. He has made
25 friends in my experience with him. He is welcome and

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1 invited to my home for family functions. We love and

2 adore Zach in our life.
3 MS. JENKINS: Similarly -- this is the last
4 one. When you were asked whether Mr. Coughlin had or
5 maintains status of being disabled from the practice of
6 law or the ability to practice law, your answer was no.
7 But -8 THE WITNESS: I think I was asked -- and
9 pardon me if I'm mistaken.
10 MS. JENKINS: Go ahead.
11 THE WITNESS: I think I was asked if I would
12 consider him to be disabled.
13 MS. JENKINS: Good. Are you aware -14 THE WITNESS: I'm not a legal or mental health
15 professional.
16 MS. JENKINS: Fair enough. Are you aware of
17 the basis for Mr. Coughlin's move to inactive status based
18 upon his disability, inactive from the practice of law?
19 THE WITNESS: Yes. I've actually seen all of
20 the paperwork and the health evaluation. And, you know,
21 I'm aware of whatever information and evidence is in front
22 of you.
23 MS. JENKINS: As a friend of Mr. Coughlin, and
24 a person who is intimately involved in his life, how are
25 his behaviors, his attitude, his demeanor different now,

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1 in your personal opinion, from the way they were presented

2 to the State Bar when he was moved to inactive status?
3 THE WITNESS: You know, when I first met Zach,
4 which was, I don't know, eight or so months ago, I liked
5 Zach immediately. I could see things in Zach that
6 basically I see in myself, you know. And when I first
7 came into recovery I had a very short attention span.
8 had a difficult time engaging with other people, listening

9 and participating in the conversation. I had an
10 overwhelming feeling of this chatter going on in my head.
11 And Zach had shared that with me.
12 And the work that we do enables us to have our
13 heads and our feet in the same space, so to speak, to live
14 in the moment, be aware of what is going on, and be aware
15 of what is not going on around us. And I've watched an
16 amazing change come over him. He was not very engaging,
17 didn't seem to consider, you know, what was even going on
18 around him at times. Just kind of caught up in his
19 thinking in his head, and that's not the case today.
20 Zach is very present and engaging, and he
21 shows up to his job every day. And he definitely has, you
22 know, we discuss, you know, the challenges of life. And
23 he has good cognitive ability to figure things out and
24 figure out the solution to problems.
25 Again, I'm not an attorney or a mental health

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1 practitioner, but I would call the change that I have seen

2 in Mr. Coughlin over the last six months, especially in
3 all of the action that he's taken, and seeking the counsel
4 that was suggested by the court, I would think he's
5 capable of anything. That's just my humble opinion.
6 MS. JENKINS: One final question from me,
7 although the rest of the panel may have questions. Well,
8 make it two final questions, because you know how lawyers
9 are.
11 MS. JENKINS: First. How many times or how
12 many different people have you sponsored in your
13 experience?
14 THE WITNESS: Well, in my experience I have
15 sponsored quite a number of people. As I stated earlier,
16 most people don't get or stay sober. So I can't really
17 remember the absolute number. I can tell you that I
18 sponsor a number of guys. I've sponsored a number of
19 people for considerable amounts of time. A television
20 producer, another attorney, a billionaire real estate
21 developer, another fella who when I first met him lived in
22 the bushes outside of a church where we attended a meeting
23 together, and he's now a contractor, has his own
24 contractor's license and -25 MS. JENKINS: Mr. Warsh, would you say there

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1 would be more than a dozen people that you have been the
2 sponsor of?
3 THE WITNESS: I've clearly attempted to take
4 more than a dozen people through the steps. I'm currently
5 working with four guys, Mr. Coughlin included right now,
6 and have several -- I don't know. I mean, yes.
7 MS. JENKINS: You're experienced in this
8 process, would that be fair to say?
9 THE WITNESS: Pardon me?
10 MS. JENKINS: You're experienced in this
11 process?
12 THE WITNESS: Yeah. I have a sponsor, and I
13 continually work the steps. So I've had a lineage
14 of sober men who have helped me to get and remain sober
15 and make my life happily and usefully whole, and I get to
16 share that with Mr. Coughlin.
17 MS. JENKINS: Mr. Warsh, I'm going to assume
18 that you would do pretty much anything to assist your
19 friend and your colleague Mr. Coughlin in this matter -20 THE WITNESS: Anything that I think -21 MS. JENKINS: Excuse me. I want to ask you:
22 If you were to be able to look in your crystal ball and
23 see any pitfalls that Zach might address in the coming
24 months, what areas would you be most concerned about?
25 THE WITNESS: Well, gee, that's kind of a

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1 hard -- that's a difficult question, and things that will

2 be difficult for me to quantify. But I would say that I
3 know he's very concerned about resuming his career. So I
4 would certainly be concerned about that. You know, I've
5 watched Zach in a short period of time do some amazing,
6 make some really good repairs on relationships with the
7 family and friends. And he's made amends with some people
8 he used to work with. I don't really see him having lots
9 of distraction other than that he has been focused on
10 trying to regain his ability to practice law.
11 Pitfalls, I mean, they're everywhere, you
12 know. I've been sober a while, and I'm never more than an
13 arm's length away from taking a drink or a drug. But, you
14 know, Zach's doing the work that he needs to do to
15 maintain a fit spiritual condition. I see it. It's
16 evidenced in our interactions on a daily basis, and I'm
17 not looking for any reasons for him to fail.
18 MS. JENKINS: Thank you, Mr. Warsh.
19 Panel, do you have any questions for this
20 gentleman?
21 MR. DENNEY: I have nothing.
22 MS. JENKINS: Mr. Low?
23 MR. LOW: Miles, my name is Keegan Low. I'm
24 one of the panel members.
25 THE WITNESS: Can you hold on for just a

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1 moment, sir? I'm having difficulty hearing you for some

2 reason.
3 MR. LOW: Can you hear me now?
4 THE WITNESS: I think I hear you a little
5 better.
6 MR. LOW: Just a couple of questions for you.
7 You are Mr. Coughlin's sponsor; correct?
8 THE WITNESS: Correct.
9 MR. LOW: And so how long has Mr. Coughlin
10 been sober?
11 THE WITNESS: Well, Zach was sober for a
12 little while when I met him. But I think he's got to be
13 at least since January, eight or nine months.
14 MR. LOW: He attends weekly meetings with you
15 at least, does he not?
16 THE WITNESS: Well, yeah. He attends meetings
17 daily or almost daily. And then we get together at least
18 once a week at a meeting where we meet up. And he meets
19 also with other men in sobriety who I sponsor.
20 MR. LOW: So if you had to put an approximate
21 number on how many meetings he makes a week, how many
22 would you say?
23 THE WITNESS: Oh, I would say probably six or
24 seven, including his religious observance.
25 MR. LOW: How far along are you with the step

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1 work with Mr. Coughlin?

2 THE WITNESS: Zach's on his 12th step. We
3 have completed the first 11 steps. And I don't know if
4 you are familiar with the process, but the 12th step is
5 where you go out and carry the message of hope and
6 recovery to other men who are struggling.
7 MR. LOW: Does Mr. Coughlin sponsor any
8 people, to your knowledge?
9 THE WITNESS: Well, no, sir. He's just gotten
10 to that step. So that's the first 11 steps are where we
11 work on ourselves. And the 12th step, where we have just
12 recently in the last week arrived at, is where he will go
13 out and try to help someone else.
14 MR. LOW: Have you had any discussions with
15 Mr. Coughlin about a plan of action should he be
16 reinstated here in Nevada, and come back to the Reno area
17 to practice. Have you talked about specifics about what
18 he ought to look out for, what he ought to do?
19 THE WITNESS: We have spoken in a general way.
20 And part of the thing that is really encouraging for
21 Mr. Coughlin is he's reconnected with some other attorneys
22 in that area who are in recovery. His dad is in recovery.
23 He's repaired his relationship with his mother and father
24 who live in that area. He's got, you know, safe places to
25 be. He knows what he needs to do. He's made recovery a

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1 working part of his life and implemented it into his daily

2 routine.
3 So he has a plan of action. I know that's
4 kind of an intimate detail between a sponsor and a
5 sponsee, but we have specific things we talk about, about
6 how to not come up with some silly excuse to take a drink
7 or a drug.
8 MR. LOW: Thank you. Appreciate it.
9 THE WITNESS: You're welcome, sir.
10 MS. JENKINS: Dr. Furman?
11 MR. FURMAN: No questions.
13 MS. FLOCCHINI: No further questions. Thank
14 you.
16 MR. COUGHLIN: Just one, your Honor.
18 BY MR. COUGHLIN:
19 Q Mr. Warsh, you referenced it briefly. Are you
20 aware the Petitioner has been going to church?
21 A Yes.
22 Q How long? Approximately how often?
23 A Well, I think you go every week. We talk
24 about it. And you started going, or at least I became
25 aware of you going when I met you.

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1 Q Has the Petitioner, to your knowledge,

2 attempted to make amends -- I think you referenced this
3 earlier. But has the Petitioner attempted to make amends
4 to varying individuals?
5 A Yeah. Absolutely. The letters and
6 face-to-face meetings.
7 MR. COUGHLIN: Thank you, Mr. Warsh.
8 That's all, your Honor.
9 MS. JENKINS: Mr. Warsh, you're excused at
10 this time. We appreciate your investment in the
11 Petitioner, and your assistance with his recovery, and
12 your testimony before this panel today. Thank you very
13 much.
14 THE WITNESS: You're welcome. And I assure
15 you it's my honor and my pleasure. Thank you.
16 MR. COUGHLIN: Your Honor, at this point I
17 would like to somewhat briefly call my mom, and then my
18 dad.
19 MS. JENKINS: We have 25 minutes at our
20 disposal. Would that be adequate for you to put on all of
21 your remaining witnesses other than you?
22 MR. COUGHLIN: I think so.
23 MS. JENKINS: Let's try to do that.
24 MR. COUGHLIN: If I can just call my mom, Mary
25 Barker of Reno, Nevada.

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1 (The oath was administered to the witness.)

2 MR. COUGHLIN: Your Honor, I would be in favor
3 of allowing the panel or the Bar to pose questions to my
4 mother and father, if that's good.
5 MS. JENKINS: What's she going to say about
6 you, really?
7 MR. COUGHLIN: They weren't here at the last
8 one. They weren't here at the last disciplinary hearing.
9 MS. JENKINS: Do you have an objection,
10 Ms. Flocchini?
11 It does muddy the record when we have just
12 narrative. However, Mr. Coughlin has the burden here.
13 And if you want to elicit specific testimony from this
14 witness, that might be helpful.
15 But, Ms. Flocchini?
16 MS. FLOCCHINI: I don't have an objection to
17 Ms. Barker testifying. I appreciate the chair's concerns
18 that perhaps some guidance in testimony is useful. We
19 appreciate Miss Barker's presence here today.
20 And of course it's your case.
21 MR. COUGHLIN: Okay.
22 MS. JENKINS: I will suggest, if I may, that
23 there's been a line of questioning about the underlying
24 disciplinary allegations, and that's not before the panel
25 today. Contrition is another story. But fitness,

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1 character, and disability are your focus, and not

2 particularly restitution and other things like that.
3 Let's stay on track and note that any disciplinary
4 proceeding would be taken up after reinstatement if that
5 happens.
6 MR. COUGHLIN: Just to clarify, your Honor.
7 You said fitness, character and disability?
8 MS. JENKINS: The removal of disability, and
9 fitness to practice are the two issues before this panel.
10 MR. COUGHLIN: With fitness including
11 character?
12 MS. JENKINS: I would say so. Just as you
13 explained in your opening.
14 MR. COUGHLIN: Okay. Thank you, your Honor.
15 MARY BARKER
20 BY MR. COUGHLIN:
21 Q Ms. Barker, can you state your name and
22 residence for the record.
23 A Mary Barker. 9450 West 12th Street. Reno,
24 Nevada 89503.
25 Q Were you present at the prior disciplinary

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1 hearing for the Petitioner?

2 A I was not present. However, I was called
3 midafternoon and asked questions after taking an oath.
4 Q Were you asked to attend the hearing?
5 A Yes. And I came, but you were not here yet.
6 And then Mom got a little annoyed and thought if he can't
7 be here, I'm gone.
8 Q Were you not very happy with the Petitioner at
9 that point in time? Were you concerned about his mental
10 state?
11 A I was concerned about -- my belief is that
12 your mental state, other than being depressed clinically
13 depressed, was a result of drug and alcohol use.
14 I don't know. How much should I say?
15 MS. JENKINS: We're looking for your personal
16 opinion.
17 THE WITNESS: My personal opinion. Zach never
18 drank in high school, very little in college, and his
19 problems with substances occurred in law school. And I
20 think that he's put an inordinate amount of stress on
21 himself by taking the Nevada Bar, the Patent Bar, and the
22 California Bar all within a short, short period of time.
23 And he graduated from law school in 2 1/2 years. And I
24 think that that also caused a lot of problems.
25 BY MR. COUGHLIN:

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1 Q I'm sorry. If I can stop you there.

2 A Yes.
3 Q -- and direct the question a little more
4 specifically.
5 Have you witnessed the Petitioner displaying
6 contrition for his past misconduct?
7 A Yes. Absolutely.
8 Q Have you witnessed the Petitioner seeming to
9 overcome a disability or chemical dependency and/or mental
10 disability in the last, say year?
11 A Yes.
12 Q Do you believe the Petitioner is fit to
13 practice law?
14 A Yes.
15 MR. COUGHLIN: I think that's all I have.
16 Thank you, Ms. Barker. Mom.
17 MS. JENKINS: Mr. Coughlin, if I may just give
18 you a little bit of encouragement in this realm. A yes or
19 no answer on examination is really -- it's a leading
20 question, and it's not particularly helpful to this panel.
21 What is helpful to the panel is asking the
22 witness for her personal observations, her perception and
23 allow the witness to testify.
24 So if you want to go back to the three points
25 you wanted to make, because the burden is yours, and ask

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1 this witness to explain how she came to those conclusions,

2 and do you agree that blank, and how do you come to that
3 conclusion, that would be more helpful to us.
4 Do you want to start over?
5 MR. COUGHLIN: Yes, your Honor. Just to
6 clarify the three points. It is overcome the disability,
7 fit to practice law, and have the requisite skill and
8 learning or is it character, overcome disability?
9 MS. JENKINS: I would like to direct you to
10 Nevada Supreme Court Rule 117, Paragraph 4, resumption of
11 practice by disabled attorneys. I'm moving down in the
12 paragraph. It says, "The petition shall be filed with Bar
13 counsel's office, and should be set for hearing before a
14 five-member hearing panel which shall consider whether the
15 attorney has demonstrated by clear and convincing evidence
16 that the attorney's disability has been removed, and that
17 he or she is fit to resume the practice of law."
18 Those are the only considerations before this
19 panel today.
21 BY MR. COUGHLIN:
22 Q Miss Barker, if you could take the suggestion
23 and direction the panel judge just made and comment with
24 respect to those, your personal observations and opinions
25 with respect to those two points; i.e., whether the

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1 petitioner's disability has been removed, and whether he's

2 now fit to practice law.
3 A I think that there has been a tremendous
4 change from what I've seen in you that you have become
5 sober. And I think that a lot of your disability was the
6 result of alcohol and chemical use.
7 And I just -- I compare the way that you were
8 over a year ago to the way you are now. And I think that
9 you are fit, but I think that -- I think that, as I've
10 heard other people say, that under the direction of
11 another lawyer who will be a mentor, who will be there
12 seeing what you are doing. It has to be frustrating for
13 you.
14 MR. COUGHLIN: I think that's all I have, your
15 Honor.
17 MS. FLOCCHINI: Thank you.
20 Q Mr. Coughlin was in San Diego -- or, I'm
21 sorry, was in Santa Barbara in late 2014; correct?
22 A Uh-huh.
23 Q Are you aware that Mr. Coughlin was using
24 substances when he was in San Barbara?
25 A Yes. As his sponsor was talking, I was

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1 reviewing in my mind when I believe he stopped all

2 substance. But I believe that at the end of 2014 he was
3 still using substances.
4 Q What substance are you aware of that he was
5 using?
6 A Adderall and alcohol. Now, let me say I did
7 not have firsthand -8 MR. COUGHLIN: If I can just interject
9 quickly.
10 MS. JENKINS: Do you have an objection?
11 MR. COUGHLIN: Yes, it is similar to an
12 objection.
13 MS. JENKINS: What's your objection to the
14 question?
15 MR. COUGHLIN: Relevancy. I understand this
16 might be somewhat relevant, but the petition describes
17 behavior -- or it's always been somewhat unclear to me
18 what period of time is under review here. The activity
19 detailed in the petition? Present day? Something that
20 happened three years after the petition?
21 So I think it's probably relevant what
22 Ms. Barker is testifying to. But just to preserve it for
23 the record, and maybe seek some clarification I would make
24 a relevance objection.
25 MS. JENKINS: I'm going to allow the question

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1 because it asks for information after the disability

2 inactive determination and -3 MR. COUGHLIN: Actually, this is prior.
4 THE WITNESS: Before.
5 MS. JENKINS: I believe that I'm going to
6 allow it. Because it's relevant for the panel to know at
7 what point the substance and alcohol use entered, and how
8 long it's been maintained.
9 MS. FLOCCHINI: Thank you.
11 Q Were you aware if Mr. Coughlin was using
12 marijuana in late 2014?
13 A I believe he was. But that is a mom's belief.
14 I did not see anything. Even when Zach lived here, I
15 never saw him drink. I never saw him use. And I actually
16 thought because of his behaviors that he must be mentally
17 ill, and I went through a 13-week program with the
18 National Nevada Mental Health Institute for families of
19 people with mental illness.
20 And nothing seemed to fit that. He wasn't
21 bipolar. He wasn't schizophrenic according to what I
22 learned. And then I came to realize that he was under the
23 influence, and that caused his behaviors.
24 And I personally believe that it was a
25 combination of Adderall and alcohol. And he was under a

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1 lot of stress. And I thought it caused him to behave in a

2 way that was not the son that I knew until his problems
3 began.
4 Q And you indicated before that you believe that
5 he has some depression?
6 A I believe so. I believe so. Now, what I know
7 that he's doing for depression is he exercises daily. He
8 goes to a 24 Hour Fitness. And I know that he realizes
9 that that is critical to his mental health to keep on an
10 even keel. And I don't think that he was -- I know he
11 wasn't doing that before when he was having all the
12 difficulties.
13 Q Okay.
14 A And that's it.
15 Q Are you aware of any stressful situations that
16 Mr. Coughlin has had in the last eight months?
17 A I suspect every day might be kind of stressful
18 when you're getting sober.
19 Q I appreciate that. But there's nothing
20 significant? I recognize that Mr. Coughlin moved to San
21 Diego, and I'm sure the panel knows that, and that moving
22 can be a stressful endeavor -23 A Yeah.
24 Q -- getting work. But I just want to know if
25 you had had any experience or witnessed any occasions when

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1 there was a particularly stressful event in Mr. Coughlin's

2 life other than an every day just getting by?
3 A Right. And I think that this is stressful.
4 It would certainly be stressful for me, and I'm sure it's
5 been on his mind. And I think that he's handled it well.
6 I think that less is oftentimes better than more. And I
7 think Zach in his efforts to do everything he possibly can
8 to make things right, and to file what he needs to file
9 for this, he probably went a little bit overboard; i.e.,
10 this morning's email.
11 MS. FLOCCHINI: The State Bar appreciates you
12 taking the time to be here.
13 MS. JENKINS: Hang on. Rebuttal.
15 BY MR. COUGHLIN:
16 Q Ms. Barker, are you aware the Petitioner had
17 not smoked marijuana for seven years between 2007 and late
18 2014, or does that seem plausible to you?
19 A Yes. As I said, I never really knew that you
20 smoked marijuana until I knew you smoked marijuana.
21 I do know that you went through years of
22 sobriety. But, I mean, the marijuana, I just really was
23 not aware of that.
24 Q So are you aware of the Petitioner entering a
25 12-step recovery programs in approximately 2002?

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1 A Yes.
2 Q And that there was periods of time between
3 then and now that Petitioner was quite active in those
4 programs -5 A Yes.
6 Q -- ostensibly sober?
7 A Yes.
8 MR. COUGHLIN: That's all I have, your Honor.
9 MS. JENKINS: Anything from the panel?
10 MR. DENNEY: I have no questions.
11 MS. JENKINS: You're released. Thank you.
12 MR. COUGHLIN: If I can call my father,
13 Dr. Timothy D. Coughlin.
14 TIMOTHY COUGHLIN
19 BY MR. COUGHLIN:
20 Q Hello, Dr. Coughlin. Thank you for being here
21 today. If you can state your name and residence.
22 A Tim Coughlin. 4263 Greenhorn Court. Reno,
23 Nevada.
24 Q Can you speak to the same questions that were
25 just asked to the previous witness, Ms. Barker?

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1 A Yes. I've been sober 36 years. I'm one of

2 the founders of the Nevada Impaired Physicians Committee
3 which was begun by Ken McLane who ran the Board of Medical
4 Examiners here for many, many years. And he was sober for
5 the last six or seven years of his life. It was one of
6 the things he was proudest of.
7 I've been the medical director for the McLane
8 Center when it was at Saint Mary's. So I've been actively
9 and intimately involved in alcohol and drug rehabilitation
10 for a long time.
11 I can say that Zach, as his mother has alluded
12 to, was a complete straight arrow all the way through high
13 school. He was a National Merit finalist. He was All
14 State basketball player of the year in the northern Triple
15 A. Didn't drink or anything.
16 I think he went off to college, and I suspect
17 that some things happened there. He came back with three
18 different colored hair, and he made the law review in law
19 school. Passed the California Bar and the Nevada Bar and
20 the Patent Bar all in one year before he graduated from
21 law school.
22 And sometimes the smarter you are, the tougher
23 you are, the harder it is to get sober. We've been
24 estranged at times. There have been multiple periods
25 where either -- we were both hanging up on each other all

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1 the time.
2 I love Zach a great deal. His character is
3 good. I've seen him give a dollar to a homeless woman
4 when he had nothing himself. And I was surprised by that
5 at that point, because I thought, you know, you have
6 nothing, you have no business giving things away at this
7 point.
8 I feel very strongly that in the last year we
9 have seen recovery. Prior to that, it was becoming harder
10 and harder to remember what Zach was like as a young man.
11 And I felt like we had the old Zach back.
12 You know, we've had -- it's been difficult.
13 We've been -- we refer to these things as Zach attacks.
14 You get these emails in the middle of the night, that kind
15 of thing.
16 Adderall is an amphetamine, the same thing as
17 crank. No way around it. And it can have, depending on
18 what your makeup and genetic makeup is like, it can have a
19 horrible effect. He has -- in my family it would be
20 easier to list the people who didn't have alcohol problems
21 than the ones who do. And everybody goes to work every
22 day, and they've all got great big jobs, and they can't
23 quite figure out how things got all balled up.
24 My mother's father was one of first guys in AA
25 in Fort Wayne, Indiana, back in the '30s. If you showed

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1 up in an AA meeting in 1930, and you had a watch, the guys

2 would go, shit, he's not ready, he still has a watch. So
3 if you had anything, you weren't ready.
4 My dad's father was the mayor of a little
5 Germany farming community called Fort Recovery, if you can
6 believe that. And he hit somebody over the head with a
7 beer bottle during a city council meeting. So there was
8 room for the sensitive man in Fort Recovery.
9 Ego and self-centeredness are at the heart of
10 all our problems. And once you start drinking and using,
11 you're not you anymore. And that's what we were seeing.
12 And I've been a lightening rod for Zach. And
13 I think it probably made it harder for him to get sober in
14 a lot of ways. I've seen this in AA before where people
15 have long-term sobriety, but their kids remember when it
16 wasn't that way. And so sometimes they, you know, they
17 have difficulty coming around to that.
18 I have no doubt in my mind that his recovery
19 is sincere at this point. I've seen him break down and
20 cry and apologize for the things he's done and the way
21 he's treated people. And I think he's sincere in that.
22 know he's sincere in that.

23 But it is, you know, it is a difficult road.
24 And I would lobby for reinstating Zach, but I would tie
25 him to a very tight contract, which is what we do with

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1 doctors in Nevada, and I've been involved in that forever.

2 With random urine drug screens, and required counseling,
3 all that. It's been very helpful. And we've had, you
4 know, there is a huge success rate among doctors because
5 you have their license in your hands, and a real club over
6 them. If they screw up, their livelihood goes away.
7 The doctors' AA meeting meets in my office on
8 Wednesday nights, and there will be one or two or 25 guys
9 at that. Most alcoholics are their own worst enemy, and
10 Zach is certainly here.
11 Frankly, he hasn't been arrested in a long
12 time, and that speaks volumes. That means he's actually
13 improving. And we have good conversation now. And
14 there's no doubt in my mind he not only has chemical
15 dependency and alcoholism, but he has depression, and
16 certainly his share of anxiety.
17 My view of this 500-page brief is his anxiety
18 took over, and he was just determined to dot every I and
19 cross every T and lost sight of the fact if you don't have
20 recovery it doesn't matter how good your argument is.
21 It's got to come from the heart. And you need a huge
22 spiritual conversion. You have to have a totally, you
23 know, a major upheaval in how you look at the world and
24 how you treat people and how you behave. And I think he's
25 had that.

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1 But I think he's still early in recovery.

2 And, you know, if you have been using amphetamines, it can
3 take up to two years for your PET scan to come back to
4 normal. It can be two years before you begin to
5 experience pleasure the way it should be.
6 But Zach has a good heart, and he is tenacious
7 if he's anything. Period. And, you know, a weak person
8 would have quit a long time ago, but Zach will push things
9 beyond being reasonable, and I think that's changed. That
10 to me we have got the old Zach back, and I can't tell you
11 how thrilled I am with that, because we had pretty much
12 felt like we had lost him.
14 MR. COUGHLIN: That's all I have, your Honor.
15 Ms. Flocchini?
16 MS. FLOCCHINI: I will only briefly ask a
17 question.
20 Q Do you have an example or can you give an
21 example of when Mr. Coughlin has had a particular stressor
22 outside of everyday life in this hearing -- I appreciate
23 that this hearing is stressful -- in the last eight months
24 during his term of sobriety at this point?
25 A I think he gets up every morning and is at

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1 work at 7:00 o'clock to do what's manual labor. And

2 that's tough, you know. And living in a new town, he's
3 made a lot of friends, which is remarkable.
4 But I think recovery has a dignity. And
5 people can see that. If you are not -- if you're blaming
6 everybody else in everything, and trying to wiggle your
7 way out of a whole bunch of stuff, they pick up on that.
8 But recovery has a dignity. And I think I've seen that in
9 Zach. And I'm pretty much an expert at it. I've been
10 doing this for a long time.
11 And frankly, I don't pull my punches with
12 Zach. We have some pretty frank discussions sometimes.
13 know if we didn't really -- when Zach would get arrested,

14 we didn't do anything because my dad wouldn't have. You
15 would have sat there. That's all there was to it. And
16 hopefully you would learn from it.
17 I think the mental illness, and frankly the
18 drugs, are more powerful now than they were before. So I
19 don't have any doubt that he's sincere in his remorse and
20 his trying to do better, and I think he is succeeding in
21 that regard. But he's dug himself an incredible hole, and
22 it's going to require a lot of effort to dig himself out
23 of that, and I think he's willing to do that.
24 MS. FLOCCHINI: I have no further questions.
25 Thank you.

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1 MS. JENKINS: Panel members?

2 Mr. Coughlin?
3 MR. COUGHLIN: No further questions, your
4 Honor.
5 MS. JENKINS: Thank you, sir. We appreciate
6 your testimony.
7 What do you have left other than yourself and
8 your documents?
9 MR. COUGHLIN: Just the documents, your Honor.
10 Which would -- I have this on the pdf. If this would be
11 useful to the panel to be able to have this -- this
12 represents the file and that every member of the panel was
13 sent a pdf electronic copy of.
14 MS. JENKINS: I understand. I would like to
15 take a break now until 12:00 o'clock. And we'll resume at
16 noon. And at that time I would like you to introduce any
17 documents that you would like to have part of the record
18 as well as provide us with your testimony, allow for
19 cross-examination, panel questions, and then we'll go into
20 closing statements. Sound like a plan?
21 We're going to, of course break at 1:40 for
22 probably an hour. So that's why we're going to limit
23 ourselves to a half-hour lunch.
24 (Recess taken at 11:37 A.M.
25 to resume at 12:00 P.M.)

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1 -oOo2 RENO, NEVADA; TUESDAY, AUGUST 25, 2015; 12:15 P.M.

3 -oOo4
5 MS. JENKINS: Back on the record.
6 Mr. Coughlin, we're still in your case in
7 chief.
8 MR. COUGHLIN: Thank you, your Honor. Besides
9 my own testimony, I would seek to put some of these
10 exhibits into the record. I don't need this. If it would
11 be useful to the panel to have the ability to pass around.
12 MS. JENKINS: "This" for the record is?
13 MR. COUGHLIN: This is the filing I submitted
14 today.
15 MS. JENKINS: I'm going to deny the admission
16 of the filing as a whole. But if you would like to
17 introduce any of the exhibits to your filing as individual
18 exhibits and make a foundation for them, although
19 Ms. Flocchini, of course, can object to them, I don't
20 object to you attempting to introduce them into the
21 record.
22 MR. COUGHLIN: For Exhibit 1 I seek to
23 introduce Dr. Earlson's progress review of August 13th,
24 2015.
25 MS. JENKINS: That's in the package that's

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1 been delivered to the panel, Exhibit 1.

3 MS. FLOCCHINI: No objection.
4 MR. COUGHLIN: Thank you. It will be
5 admitted.
6 MR. COUGHLIN: Just for clarification, all
7 these exhibit numbers, all these exhibits are drawn
8 directly from what was admitted this morning.
9 Exhibit 2 would be selected progress notes by
10 Dr. Terry Pittinger who is a treating therapist at NNAMHS.
11 MS. JENKINS: Any objection?
12 MS. FLOCCHINI: The State Bar objects to the
13 admittance of Exhibit 2 because it's an incomplete record
14 of Miss Pittinger's notes.
15 MR. COUGHLIN: I apologize. I don't know if I
16 misspoke. It's entitled Selected Progress Notes, so it is
17 not all the notes. I should've made that clear.
18 MS. JENKINS: Mr. Coughlin, the one I have
19 says Progress Notes for Coughlin, Zachary B. It's a
20 two-page document. I'm sorry, keep going. It's a
21 four-page document.
22 MR. COUGHLIN: But on my index to exhibits I
23 do identify it as Selected Progress Notes. And if I may
24 approach. This might prove useful. Ms. Flocchini would
25 you object to allowing the panel to have this the index to

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1 the exhibits?
2 MS. JENKINS: What you call it is really
3 immaterial to me. Tell me what Exhibit 2 is, and why it
4 should be admitted.
5 MR. COUGHLIN: That is a few of the progress
6 notes by a psychologist at NNAMHS who I was treating with.
7 And it just provides support for the evidence that I
8 received counseling, certain types of treatment, cognitive
9 behavioral therapy, acceptance and commitment therapy,
10 transactional analysis. Things of that sort.
11 MS. JENKINS: The term of this treatment was
12 between, let's see, May 21 of 2014, and approximately
13 September 12th of 2014?
14 MR. COUGHLIN: The NNAMHS treatment, I started
15 getting counseling at NNAMHS in March of 2013 originally
16 with a different therapist who turned out was a neighbor
17 of my mother's, so he got conflicted out. So then I
18 started treating with Dr. Pittinger, and so those dates
19 are a little more limited than the actual course of
20 treatment.
21 MS. JENKINS: I'm going to ask why is it that
22 we have selected progress notes?
23 MR. COUGHLIN: I believe because, one, to cut
24 down on the bulk of this filing. Two, because in these
25 particular notes it does identify the types of modalities,

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1 I guess, that would be used such as CBT, cognitive

2 behavioral therapy, transitional analysis, and probably,
3 candidly, because the NNAMHS notes are somewhat lengthy,
4 and there's a fair amount of dysfunction detailed in those
5 notes, which I sought to limit.
6 MS. JENKINS: Ms. Flocchini, other than
7 they're incomplete, what is it about them being incomplete
8 that you object to?
9 MS. FLOCCHINI: I think it was, as you say,
10 succinctly put, that they do not identify the full picture
11 from the treatment and the observations of the NNAMHS
12 workers, different therapists and nurses over the course
13 between late 2013 through late 2014.
14 MR. COUGHLIN: It's not late 2013. It's March
15 of 2013, I believe, is when the treatment began.
16 MS. FLOCCHINI: Sure.
17 MS. JENKINS: I'm going to not allow Exhibit 2
18 into the record. So panel please disregard Exhibit 2
19 that's been presented to us.
20 MR. COUGHLIN: This is, Exhibit 3 is a sworn
21 declaration by myself. I would say pretty much just
22 detailing what I will testify to here today, especially
23 with regard to contrition and remorse, and then continuing
24 to follow the recommendation of Dr. Nielsen, and continue
25 to have a relationship with a psychiatrist and therapist.

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2 MS. FLOCCHINI: I know Mr. Coughlin will be
3 testifying directly today. I don't have an objection.
4 think Mr. Coughlin's direct testimony is the best

5 evidence.
6 MS. JENKINS: I'm going to strike Exhibit 3 as
7 unnecessarily duplicative. And because the State Bar
8 hadn't had an opportunity, nor has the panel, to review it
9 before the testimony today, it's of no value. So let's
10 strike Exhibit 3.
11 MR. COUGHLIN: Exhibit 4 is a letter from a
12 treating therapist, Bill Martin, MFC.
13 MS. JENKINS: Was Mr. Martin unavailable to
14 testify today?
15 MR. COUGHLIN: I just didn't ask him to
16 testify because I felt Dr. Nielsen would be able to relay
17 the information he received from Mr. Martin, and that
18 might be duplicative.
19 MS. JENKINS: I'm sorry. I have a hard time
20 switching between advocate and adjudicator. I'm going to
21 stop making objections. I'm going to allow Ms. Flocchini
22 to talk to us about Exhibit 4.
23 MS. FLOCCHINI: Based on this document was
24 available to the State Bar long ago as part of the
25 subpoena process, and based on the efficiency of this

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1 proceeding, the State Bar does not have an objection to

2 Exhibit 4.
3 MS. JENKINS: Exhibit 4 will be admitted.
4 MR. COUGHLIN: Given I was seeing two
5 therapists, Exhibit 5 is from Dr. Hoar. It's pretty much
6 the same, just from a different person, as Exhibit 4.
7 MS. FLOCCHINI: No objection. This letter has
8 the same circumstances. The State Bar has been aware of
9 this letter since it was first issued.
10 MS. JENKINS: Exhibit 5 is admitted.
11 MR. COUGHLIN: Exhibit 6 is certificates of
12 completion of 104 1/2 hours of CLE, continuing legal
13 education credits.
14 MS. FLOCCHINI: No objection.
15 MS. JENKINS: What is this being offered to
16 show?
17 MR. COUGHLIN: The CLEs? For the purposes of,
18 I believe in 116(4) beyond just saying Petitioner must
19 show he's no longer disabled and fit to practice law.
20 little bit later in the subparagraph a requisite

21 competency appears, learning in the law. And it's
22 intended to show that beyond some other evidence I'll
23 present today, showing I've actually done a lot of legal
24 work while suspended, it's all on my own behalf, but it's
25 intended to show that I've maintained learning in the law

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1 and continuing to.

2 MS. JENKINS: I'll admit it.
3 MR. COUGHLIN: Thank you, your Honor. I think
4 that's 6.
5 Exhibit 7 is a paycheck stub detailing 700
6 hours of subsistence employment that I have engaged in
7 pursuant to Dr. Nielsen's recommendation.
8 MS. JENKINS: I find this a little difficult
9 to read. Is anybody having a similar problem? Is there a
10 better copy that we can enter into the record if there is
11 no objection from the State Bar?
12 MR. COUGHLIN: I don't have a better copy on
13 me, your Honor, but I can probably find one.
14 MR. LOW: Mr. Coughlin, is the $6,015 the
15 number you're trying to show us?
16 MR. COUGHLIN: Basically, yeah, at $10 an hour
17 saying I had earned 6,000 since starting in that year. So
18 plus that was from, I believe, early August. So adding up
19 40 hours a week, it would imply that I have done 700,
20 because I continued working.
21 MS. JENKINS: My concern with this copy is
22 that I can't determine the date. I do see 10 hours, 30
23 hours -- I'm sorry, $10 an hour, 30 1/2 for $35. But I
24 don't know what the period, starting period, ending, and
25 pay date may be.

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1 MS. FLOCCHINI: Perhaps the pdf version is

2 better. Because I have seen this document already. And
3 my understanding was that the pay period was late July.
4 For some reason the pay ending date was a late July date.
5 I can't read it today, but I must have been able to read
6 it better on the computer.
7 MR. COUGHLIN: It was August 5th, from what I
8 remember. And I might have this in my vehicle at this
9 point.
10 MS. JENKINS: Let's say it will be admitted.
11 If we can find clarification or stipulate to the date,
12 approximate date, we'll admit number 7.
13 MR. COUGHLIN: Exhibit 8 are letters of
14 recommendation. One is from Lawyers Concerned For Other
15 Lawyers, Coe Swobe. And another by a former sponsor of
16 mine, an attorney named Kelly Teslin, also from 2004.
17 MS. JENKINS: Relevancy?
18 MS. FLOCCHINI: The State Bar would object
19 based on relevancy, and we have not seen these documents
20 before.
21 MR. COUGHLIN: Well, I believe Ms. Flocchini
22 stated that the State Bar would perhaps be referencing
23 some of the materials from my admission, and she had
24 earlier information when she detailed Dr. Hunter's report.
25 These materials would, I would believe, would have been in

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1 my admission file, and I had provided them a day or two

2 ago in an email to Ms. Flocchini.
3 MS. FLOCCHINI: I have a number of letters of
4 recommendation. I don't have reference to these. I can
5 confirm that I didn't receive them previously, but I don't
6 recognize them.
7 MS. JENKINS: I have question for you,
8 Ms. Flocchini. Will the State Bar be bringing up
9 preinactive status behavior?
10 MS. FLOCCHINI: Yes.
11 MS. JENKINS: I'll admit them. They're in.
12 MR. COUGHLIN: Thank you, your Honor.
13 Exhibit 9 is a certified prescription history
14 for myself. It's not for my whole life, but it is for
15 what I thought was the relevant period in question where I
16 questioned Dr. Nielsen about this earlier, whether he saw
17 any causal correlation between me abruptly going off
18 Adderall and Wellbutrin, and thereafter being arrested
19 twice in a couple of weeks.
20 So this prescription printout history does
21 provide evidence that I did indeed quit filling my
22 prescriptions for Adderall and Wellbutrin in that time
23 period just prior to -- it would have run out, my 30-day
24 supply would have run out just prior to my being arrested
25 twice within 17 days. The initial two arrests detailed in

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1 the petition.
2 MS. FLOCCHINI: The State Bar, I don't believe
3 the State Bar received this previously, and I will object
4 based on relevance.
5 MR. COUGHLIN: If I could speak to that.
6 That's a pretty, kind of a thing to me. Because the State
7 Bar did, in fact, receive this, and it received this two
8 weeks before the filing -- well, along with an email that
9 is attached to what would be Exhibit 15.
10 The State Bar received this -- not
11 Ms. Flocchini, her predecessor Mr. King, received this two
12 weeks prior to the filing of the instant petition on May
13 31st, 2015. Which is somewhat troubling to me, because
14 the petition indicates Mr. Coughlin has been approached by
15 the State Bar, and he indicates he has no mental problems,
16 no substance abuse problems, and he refuses to acknowledge
17 he has anything in that regard.
18 Which I found to be highly inaccurate
19 considering some of the materials I attached to -- I
20 provided Bar counsel, then I later attached to what is
21 deemed the additional response that the Court here
22 references in its disability order where it says
23 Mr. Coughlin has e-filed this initial response, which was
24 the 105-page thing included in the prehearing packet.
25 But then the order references, it says, we're

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1 finding him disabled based on Dr. Nielsen's report, and

2 all the filings, all the materials on file in this matter.
3 So for me there was two. The initial thing
4 June 18th, 2012. Then there was the additional response I
5 filed July 22nd, 2014. Which attached to it as an
6 exhibit, this email to Mr. King of May 14, 2012, which
7 included what was brought up to Mr. King, this
8 prescription history.
9 It's a lengthy email. Details what I saw as
10 perhaps causal correlation between being arrested, the
11 arrests occurring within a couple weeks after running out
12 of those medications.
13 MS. JENKINS: Mr. Coughlin, I am going to deny
14 admission of this document. Your explanation for what you
15 might use it for in this proceeding was to show that you
16 went off of amphetamines, 30 milligrams, and Wellbutrin,
17 150 milligrams, shortly before your arrest. This report
18 doesn't say anything of the sort. Whether it says that
19 you last filled them in April of 2012, and the report was
20 issued a mere three or four days after the last filling of
21 your Wellbutrin, I'm going to suggest that this does not
22 provide any probative value as to whether or not you went
23 off of these meds.
24 MR. COUGHLIN: 2011 in August was -- the
25 arrests at issue in the petition occurred in late August

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1 2011 and early September 2011.

2 MS. JENKINS: Those drugs continued to be
3 filled by, according to this document. Until April of
4 2012.
5 MR. COUGHLIN: There is a gap though during
6 the relevant time frame. They ceased being filled in
7 August 2011. And then I don't start filling them again
8 until after the two arrests occurred. In fact, I don't
9 start filling the Wellbutrin until April 2012. But I went
10 back onto the Adderall immediately after the second
11 arrest.
12 MS. JENKINS: That's amphetamine, 30
13 milligrams?
15 MS. JENKINS: It does show that.
16 Counsel?
17 MS. FLOCCHINI: I will speak more accurately
18 with respect to whether or not we have seen these
19 documents. The State Bar has seen these documents before
20 in preparation for the hearing today in response to the
21 chair's direction that any exhibits be exchanged. This
22 was not identified as an exhibit for today.
23 MS. JENKINS: I will mention that while the
24 State Bar may have seen this before, I had directed the
25 parties to exchange documents and determine their

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1 admission and their admissibility by last Friday.

2 MR. COUGHLIN: It's included in the record
3 from the disability case.
4 MS. JENKINS: I don't doubt that, sir.
5 asked you to identify documents you intended to introduce

6 at this hearing by three working days before the hearing,
7 last Friday. Or three calendar days, I'm sorry.
8 So while I don't doubt that the State Bar has
9 seen it before, it was not seen in relation to the SCR 117
10 hearing that we're here to deal with today.
11 MS. FLOCCHINI: To the extent -- I apologize.
12 MS. JENKINS: I want to just say that your
13 state of mind and your behavior, the reasons for your
14 behavior prior to the arrest, is really not what we're
15 considering today. That may be a consideration in any
16 further disciplinary hearings that may take place if
17 you're reinstated.
18 However, I think it's really attenuated to
19 what we're here for. We're talking about your current
20 status of your disability, and your current character and
21 fitness, or fitness including character, to practice as an
22 attorney.
23 I'm going to deny admission.
24 Exhibit 10.
25 MR. COUGHLIN: May I speak to that, your

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1 Honor, briefly?
2 MS. JENKINS: I think that you've had an
3 opportunity to argue why it should be admitted. So no.
4 MR. COUGHLIN: I've argued both ways that it
5 should and shouldn't. Exhibit -6 MS. JENKINS: 10, I believe.
7 MR. COUGHLIN: -- 10 is a report, a progress
8 note. They're not all the progress notes from that
9 psychiatrist. They are selected, I suppose you might say,
10 offered to show that I turned in a bottle of Wellbutrin to
11 him and discussed with him going off -- not Wellbutrin,
12 Adderall -- the amphetamine, in April, early April. And
13 discussed going off that with him and then thereafter went
14 off that medication.
15 MS. JENKINS: Counsel?
16 MS. FLOCCHINI: Similar to the records from
17 NNAMHS, the State Bar objects to the admission of these
18 documents because it is not a complete record of
19 Mr. Coughlin's history with the San Diego Behavioral
20 Health Services Agency.
21 And to the extent that it can support
22 Mr. Coughlin's statements that he has gone off Adderall, I
23 think Mr. Coughlin can make the statement to the panel,
24 and the panel can judge his credibility on that. That
25 assertion has been made by many witnesses already.

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1 MR. COUGHLIN: Your Honor, if I can briefly

2 just respond to that. In my file today, which is
3 approximately 26 pages, and some 400 pages attached, which
4 were largely, the bulk of that was largely what was
5 necessitated by what was in the prehearing packet offered
6 by the State Bar in terms of failing to include what I
7 would think are essential documents from the record in the
8 companion disability case.
9 There's case law that I detail in my 26-page
10 filing today, my supplemental prehearing brief, that says
11 courts are often going to expect more than just you coming
12 into court and saying something happened in these
13 contexts. The courts seem to want the stuff corroborated.
14 So while I can come in here and testify I quit
15 taking Adderall in April, I provided this for purposes of
16 showing not only that, but I gave the psychiatrist a
17 bottle of Adderall that I had ceased taking.
18 MS. JENKINS: I'm going to allow these as
19 being an incomplete record of the progress before
20 Mr. Boehner.
21 I'm also going to suggest that the Petitioner
22 had an opportunity to bring a witness to corroborate his
23 testimony that he gave a bottle of Adderall to someone at
24 this clinic and chose not to do that, to date at least.
25 And that while this is a business record, it seems to be

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1 an incomplete one, and is hearsay. So I'm going to not

2 allow it.
3 Exhibit 11, sir.
4 MR. COUGHLIN: Thank you, your Honor. Exhibit
5 11 is a nine-step men's letter, which is sort of a
6 recovery term for apology letters, essentially expressing
7 contrition and remorse to various individuals connected to
8 the behavior identified in the disability petition and
9 beyond.
11 MS. FLOCCHINI: The best evidence regarding
12 Mr. Coughlin's working of the 12 steps, I believe, is
13 Mr. Coughlin's testimony directly. Nonetheless, this is
14 not a voluminous exhibit, and for that reason the State
15 Bar does not object to Exhibit 11.
16 MS. JENKINS: It will be admitted.
18 Exhibit 12 would be attendance sheets for
19 12-step recovery groups showing roughly attendance on a
20 daily basis, I believe from as far as back as February to
21 the present day. It might not be totally complete,
22 because some of these slips would get lost from time to
23 time. In the immediate is -- that's roughly what it's
24 provided for.
25 MS. FLOCCHINI: The State Bar has the same

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1 response as to Exhibit 11.

2 MS. JENKINS: It's admitted.
3 Exhibit 13.
4 MR. COUGHLIN: Exhibit 13 is various letters
5 of recommendation.
7 MS. FLOCCHINI: No objection. We have seen
8 them. Thank you.
9 MS. JENKINS: I will admit Exhibit 13. It's a
10 lot of pages.
11 MR. COUGHLIN: Probably 30 pages. I should
12 have Bates stamped all these.
13 MS. JENKINS: Approximately 22 pages of
14 letters of recommendation for reinstatement of
15 Mr. Coughlin.
16 MS. FLOCCHINI: I apologize. As I was
17 reviewing this I stopped at Dr. Nielsen's progress review,
18 which is sort of included in this packet. And there are
19 some letters of recommendation that are dated back to
20 2009 -- I'm sorry, 2004, that were not previously
21 provided.
22 MR. LOW: Which exhibit are we on now?
23 MS. JENKINS: Number 13.
24 MR. COUGHLIN: I believe they were provided in
25 the sense that they were submitted to the State Bar at the

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1 time I was seeking admission, and Ms. Flocchini referenced

2 using the materials. They were submitted therewith in
3 this hearing.
4 MS. FLOCCHINI: I appreciate that. I will
5 clarify again. The letters dated 2004 were not provided
6 to the State Bar in anticipation of this hearing.
7 MS. JENKINS: I think that the panel can
8 distinguish the relevance, the probative value, and the
9 hearsay value, if you will, of the documents as a whole.
10 And just being aware of the date it's probably a good
11 idea.
12 But I'll admit Exhibit 13 in its entirety, and
13 we'll go through and see what we have got, what
14 Mr. Coughlin would like to point out to the panel.
15 Do you have one more exhibit?
16 MR. COUGHLIN: A few more. Exhibit 14 will be
17 a couple orders from Reno Municipal Court Judge Nash
18 Holmes reversing the criminal trespass and contempt
19 convictions stemming from the traffic citation trial that
20 are referenced in the disability petition.
22 admission of Exhibit 14. The documents, these two orders
23 with the proof of service, doesn't exhibit what
24 Mr. Coughlin has referenced. I don't know why the matters
25 were dismissed, but there is no explanation in these --

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1 MS. JENKINS: Documents.

2 MS. FLOCCHINI: -- documents.
3 MS. JENKINS: Mr. Coughlin, can you explain to
4 me how these might be helpful in some way in this case?
5 MR. COUGHLIN: Sure. I've argued this both
6 ways. In my filing last week I argued this stuff isn't
7 relevant, but now I'm conceding it may be relevant because
8 the prong under 117.2, fitness, I believe comes in,
9 possibly character. And the case law I detail in my
10 filing, my 26-page filing of today is, what is included in
11 character? And oftentimes I find the case says the level
12 of severity of the past misconduct goes to how much I need
13 to prove I've rehabilitated myself sufficiently to show I
14 have character.
15 And if past misconduct or alleged misconduct
16 here was actually overturned, then that would be quite
17 strong evidence that there was no misconduct.
18 MS. JENKINS: My problem with these documents,
19 Mr. Coughlin, is that we don't have any information about
20 what case number 11 TR 26800 TI or case 11 CR 26405 might
21 have alleged, what they had to do with, and why they were
22 dismissed. It could have been that any of a jillion
23 reasons. So the documents don't appear to be helpful on
24 their face.
25 Your testimony is, without additional

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1 documentary evidence, is going to be your best bet with

2 regard to the -- your facts about your criminal
3 allegations. These documents don't help you in any way,
4 because on their face they say nothing.
5 MR. COUGHLIN: They're from the criminal
6 trespass case and the contempt case.
7 MS. JENKINS: There's nothing on here that
8 says this is a criminal trespass case. And there's
9 nothing on here that says that it's anything other than -10 the case is dismissed, and it doesn't say why, what the
11 allegations were, or what have you.
13 MS. JENKINS: I'm at a loss to know how this
14 is going to be probative to this panel.
15 MR. COUGHLIN: Your Honor, if I can.
16 proceed under the assumption that this panel wants to see

17 everything in the disability case. If that's the case,
18 that is included in the disability case as an attachment,
19 along with a companion filing in the disciplinary case.
20 The Nevada Supreme Court -- so if this panel
21 does review everything in the disciplinary case, it will
22 come across that. And there will be support for where and
23 what that's from, why it's relevant. And, in fact, in the
24 companion disciplinary case, which was on appeal, the
25 Court -- I filed that. The Court found that relevant

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1 enough to order the State Bar to respond to it a couple

2 weeks after I filed it.
3 MS. JENKINS: Mr. Coughlin, I don't doubt that
4 it was relevant in your disciplinary case. I'm going to
5 admit it conditionally. If during your testimony, during
6 your presentation of evidence this becomes relevant in
7 some way, you're going to have to show us how it's
8 relevant at that time.
9 MR. COUGHLIN: Okay. Thank you, your Honor.
10 MS. JENKINS: Now we're on to 15, I believe.
11 MS. FLOCCHINI: It happens to be on the back.
12 MS. JENKINS: Is there any other documents you
13 would like to submit?
14 MR. COUGHLIN: Actually, your Honor, there
15 are. I would like to submit as Exhibit 15 my filing in
16 the disability case that's referenced in the disability
17 order as the additional response I filed with the
18 petition. That was a filing I submitted in July of 2014.
19 And given it's referenced in the disability order, the
20 order placing on disability status. And given that the
21 case law I point out in the filing of today says well, in
22 order to determine character you need to see this guy
23 complied with the disability order or the disciplinary
24 order, disability order.
25 Also I think it goes to whether or not -- what

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1 the disability is, and whether or not I've overcome it.

2 Because I was at somewhat of a loss. I think I know just
3 common sense what the Nevada Supreme Court would probably
4 think my disability is, but no one's ever really quite
5 spelled it out to me. The Court certainly never entered
6 an order saying you have this, this is your disability or
7 this is your -8 So in order to figure out what disability do I
9 need to prove I've overcome, I need to understand what did
10 they rely on in making their order. And in their order
11 they said we're relying on not only the doctor's report,
12 which frankly I think submitted alone wouldn't have gotten
13 me disabled, but what I filed in the case, which I think,
14 added with these reports, resulted in the Court
15 potentially doing that.
16 So what this would be is my additional
17 response or second filing, second and only filing in that
18 disability case. And it's the one that I have been
19 referencing periodically throughout here where I say, no,
20 that prescription history, it's right. The State Bar got
21 it.
22 It's a little bit dispiriting that thereafter
23 the Bar, the board two weeks later filed a disability
24 petition saying this guy says he doesn't have a problem.
25 When, in fact, I sent them a very lengthy email detailing

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1 my problems, and my prescription history, and suggesting

2 cause and correlation, identifying what I'm doing to
3 address my problems.
4 MS. JENKINS: I understand your concern and
5 your passion for this issue. I can only hope that I never
6 have to find myself in your shoes. But this proceeding is
7 independent of all of those other proceedings.
8 While your argument in the disability hearing
9 is completely relevant substantively to the reasons that
10 you were placed on disability inactive status, and that is
11 relevant to this proceeding because you have to overcome
12 that disability in order for us to find that the
13 disability has been removed, I'm going to allow that to
14 come into evidence as a filed pleading of the State Bar.
15 And really that's all it's good for, because it's
16 argument. It's not evidence. It's background.
17 So I don't want you to rely on it as evidence.
18 If there's a document in there that you think is important
19 to be a part of the file, I don't want to prejudice you in
20 any way by keeping it out. I don't think that this panel
21 requires copies of that at this moment, but I'll allow it
22 to be added to the record.
23 MR. COUGHLIN: Okay, your Honor. I appreciate
24 that. If I can just mention the filing of today points to
25 a case that says -- because someone in my position might

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1 be saying, well, what was in the prehearing package

2 shouldn't be in here. That's from another case, it's not
3 relevant, it's prejudicial. And the case I cite to in
4 here says, well, it's okay for the State Bar to put that
5 stuff in the prehearing packet because you have the
6 opportunity to do what I'm doing now, which is bring in
7 other cases. I suppose I can give it to the court
8 reporter at this point to be marked. This is the only
9 copy I have.
10 MS. JENKINS: That would be great. And when
11 Ms. Peters comes in, we can ask her to make a copy for the
12 record so you may have your copy back.
13 MR. COUGHLIN: Just a couple more, your Honor.
14 Quickly. Another prong in 117.4 is current competency in
15 learning in the law.
16 MS. JENKINS: Where does it say that?
17 MR. COUGHLIN: It's a couple sentences after
18 the disability has been removed, he's now fit to practice.
19 That the panel may order -- I'm hoping to avoid having
20 this panel order me to take the Bar exam again or
21 something like that. By doing that I'm trying to
22 establish that, yes, I've been suspended from the practice
23 of law in Nevada, not with the Patent Bar, but in Nevada
24 since June of 2012.
25 I did not go off and do nothing related to the

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1 law in that 38 months. In fact, I probably practiced more

2 law in that 38 months than I ever did before, maybe more
3 than I ever did before combined.
4 MS. JENKINS: Are you going to give us an
5 exhibit? Because you can do your testimony later.
6 MR. COUGHLIN: That's the purpose of this
7 exhibit. If this point is conceded by the Bar, then
8 great, I don't need to show these, all the cases and
9 filings and documents, and many hours of court time I
10 spent litigating probably too many cases.
11 But nonetheless, they do establish, in my
12 view, that I remained diligent in establishing competency
13 and learning in the law, even during this suspension in
14 time.
15 MS. JENKINS: So those are -- Exhibit 16 is
16 what you would like to offer, which includes documents
17 showing that you have been litigating outside of the state
18 of Nevada because you've been on inactive status here?
19 MR. COUGHLIN: No. That I've been litigating
20 pro se in Nevada representing myself in a variety of
21 contexts.
22 MS. JENKINS: So you have been keeping your
23 skills up by appearing in litigation on your own behalf?
24 MR. COUGHLIN: Yeah. Yes.
25 MS. JENKINS: Is that point conceded, Counsel,

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1 by the Bar? Do you know what's in Exhibit 16?

2 MS. FLOCCHINI: I have briefly reviewed
3 Exhibit 16. It is, frankly, pretty voluminous, so I've
4 not read directly everything that's in Exhibit 16 to know
5 exactly what the representations are and whether or not
6 you took these documents and specifically filed each of
7 these documents.
8 MS. JENKINS: Is there an objection?
9 MS. FLOCCHINI: I believe that it is
10 duplicative to testimony that Mr. Coughlin may have
11 provided to the panel. But I defer to the chair for a
12 decision.
13 What I'm seeing, there are documents that I
14 don't think are like the order that was conditionally
15 admitted included in Exhibit 16. That's a concern.
16 MS. JENKINS: I don't see any reason that that
17 is helpful, Mr. Coughlin. Your representation about your
18 involvement with the courts is going to be perfectly
19 adequate for my purposes, and adding those exhibits when
20 the substance of those exhibits is not helpful, just the
21 fact of the activity is helpful, makes me exclude Exhibit
22 16.
24 MS. JENKINS: Anything else?
25 MR. COUGHLIN: Can I clarify what the Bar's

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1 position -- if I was to be deemed no longer disabled, fit

2 to practice, would the Bar at this point be saying the
3 panel should order this or that be done by Mr. Coughlin to
4 establish competency and learning in the law? Or is the
5 Bar's position at this point if you do meet the first two
6 prongs, we're not going to suggest that you need to do
7 anything further to establish competency and learning in
8 the law?
9 Basically I'm seeking to see if that point's
10 conceded, we don't need to spend time on it.
11 MS. JENKINS: I'm not certain what your
12 question is, because that's not for the Bar to say.
13 That's for the panel to say. Whether we believe that
14 you're competent in your learning and the law is part of
15 your fitness to practice, and you'll need to provide us
16 with clear and convincing evidence that you are.
17 Representing yourself isn't necessarily the
18 best way to do that. And your continued practice is
19 probably at the same caliber as your prior practice. Who
20 knows? The fact is, those documents won't really help you
21 that much, and they don't appear to be relevant to this
22 proceeding.
24 Exhibit 17 is a collection of filings and
25 orders in the companion disciplinary case that has been on

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1 appeal. I respect what you previously indicated in terms

2 of the slight, if any, relevance in that given the limited
3 focus here today. But it seems to me that this panel is
4 entitled to, and probably wants to know, kind of from my
5 point of view, the common sense, what really seems to be
6 the happening thing here.
7 From my point of view, I'm on -- I went to a
8 full disciplinary hearing. A recommendation was made for
9 discipline, and that was on appeal for quite a long time.
10 Then I filed a few things in that case. And then within a
11 week or two I'm declared disabled. Nothing was filed in
12 the disability case. But within a week or two of me
13 filing stuff in the disciplinary appeal I'm declared
14 disabled.
15 Basically it's tough. I have redoubled my
16 efforts in recovery in expressing some contrition.
17 thought the panel would want to be able to judge, see that

18 in assessing maybe that's what the supreme court's really
19 seeing this guy's disability, and they are glad he finally
20 is kind of rerecognizing that.
21 So in assessing whether or not I've overcome
22 the disability, I think this stuff might be relevant.
23 MS. JENKINS: What are you proposing to offer
24 as an exhibit?
25 MR. COUGHLIN: My filing of late May and early

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1 June in the disciplinary appeal, June of this year in the

2 disciplinary appeal, that were literally -- a week later I
3 was declared disabled after filing those.
4 MR. LOW: Sir, I don't understand what you are
5 saying there. Are you implying that there was some sort
6 of retaliatory action taken by the Bar? What's your
7 point?
8 MR. COUGHLIN: Not by the Bar, not
9 retaliatory. In fact, I should clarify. The discipline
10 case, not only was I declared disabled. And the Rule
11 117.2 says if you are declared disabled your disciplinary
12 case is paused.
13 Not only that. After I filed these, and the
14 Court declared me disabled, they submitted the
15 disciplinary case. All that work that I've been doing the
16 last three years, we're throwing it out. You're disabled.
17 Go prove you're not. Were throwing it out. The Bar can
18 bring it up again if they think it's necessary, but we
19 think you finally get it. So we're going to stop seeking
20 to disbar, and we're going to put you on disability
21 status.
23 MS. FLOCCHINI: With respect to the status of
24 the additional matters that were pending before the
25 supreme court. Upon entering a status of disability

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1 inactive, the Court, for procedural purposes, dismissed

2 without prejudice the other disciplinary matters that had
3 gone up for review before them on the recommendations from
4 disciplinary panels. Because upon a finding of
5 disability, Mr. Coughlin was then deemed unable to
6 adequately represent himself in those proceedings.
7 Those disciplinary proceedings continue to be
8 pending. And if he were to be reinstated, then they will
9 proceed in due course from there. So the Court closed the
10 file, but didn't dismiss them.
11 MS. JENKINS: I'm going to stop all discussion
12 of disciplinary matters from this point forward. I don't
13 want the panel to be poisoned by knowing how many, the
14 nature, the status or other things with regard to
15 discipline and allegations or findings of discipline or
16 recommendations or pending matters that haven't even gone
17 to a panel yet with regard to Mr. Coughlin.
18 I think that's inappropriate in this case -19 and don't even speak yet. I want to be able to have a
20 clean consideration of this Respondent's status of his
21 disability and his fitness to practice law in this state.
22 And that's all.
23 I don't want to hear about allegations.
24 don't want to hear about conviction of disciplinary

25 matters. They are not relevant to the disability that

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1 we're here to adjudicate. And I understand that they're

2 inextricably woven, particularly when it comes to
3 discipline, but they are not when it comes to disability.
4 I think it will unfairly prejudice this case
5 to talk about the discipline matter. I don't want that to
6 happen for your sake or for the supreme count's sake when
7 they get to review this matter and determine whether to
8 follow the panel's recommendation.
9 So as far as exhibits, stay away from anything
10 that has to do with disciplinary matters or allegations.
11 As far as testimony, I'm cautioning you to do the same.
12 Does that make sense to you?
13 MR. COUGHLIN: It does, your Honor. And
14 that's essentially close to the argument I was making in
15 the filing last week. The problem is -16 MS. JENKINS; I thought that was a good tack,
17 but you changed.
18 MR. COUGHLIN: I did. The problem is I
19 imagined the panel was going to want to read Dr. Nielsen's
20 reports or the Bar was going to offer it or something.
21 When you read his report, it talks about inextricably
22 decline, it goes all into that sort of stuff.
23 Some of this is, you know, it might have been
24 good to get this stuff to the panel well in advance, but
25 then strategically it might not have been.

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1 MS. JENKINS: I'm going to suggest to you that

2 strategically you've hurt yourself by not giving us the
3 opportunity to look at Dr. Nielsen's report before today.
4 Are you prepared to offer that into evidence
5 in your case, which has the burden of clear and convincing
6 evidence, that Dr. Nielsen's not only testified about your
7 status today, but his report, which is a hard copy, if you
8 will, of what he testified to, are you going to offer that
9 into evidence?
10 MR. COUGHLIN: This is the initial report?
11 MS. JENKINS: His report of your current
12 status.
13 MR. COUGHLIN: That is Exhibit 1.
14 MS. JENKINS: Okay. Good. Sorry. I missed
15 it.
16 MR. COUGHLIN: So my last exhibit will be his
17 initial report.
18 MS. JENKINS: That will be fine. Let's take a
19 look.
20 MR. COUGHLIN: I went back and forth on this a
21 lot. But it seemed to me displaying a cooperative
22 attitude to do these proceedings and recognizing judicial
23 economy argued in favor of more transparency here, and
24 deferral more. And Dr. Nielsen's testified to it earlier
25 that, in fact, when I went and met with him I detailed all

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1 these arrests that happened after the period he detailed

2 in the disability petition.
3 I believe ultimately the Nevada Supreme Court
4 is going to want to know is this guy fit now, not is this
5 guy fit based on what happened three years ago. And to
6 determine if I'm fit now necessitates probably taking
7 somewhat of a look at some stuff that's not even detailed
8 in the disability petition.
9 MS. JENKINS: Do you have an exhibit to offer?
10 MR. COUGHLIN: Well, I'm sorry, your Honor.
11 Did you just deny admission of Exhibit 17? I think you
12 did. Those rulings from the companion disciplinary
13 appeal?
14 MS. JENKINS: Your filing, protest filings
15 regarding the appeal of your disciplinary proceedings I
16 disallowed.
17 MR. COUGHLIN: The next exhibit would be the
18 complete file in that disability case.
19 MS. JENKINS: The pleadings?
20 MR. COUGHLIN: Everything filed. Well, very
21 close to everything. Maybe there's some inconsequential
22 things not in there. But basically the Bar got to pick
23 and choose, basically, what it wanted to include in the
24 prehearing packet pursuant to DRP 57. What to include in
25 the packet from that disability case that brought us here

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1 today.
2 And I'm saying, well then, it's my right or
3 choice whether or not to say, what about all this other
4 stuff that was in the disability case, shouldn't the panel
5 see that? So basically this is my -- for instance, the
6 prehearing packet doesn't have the eight exhibits attached
7 to the petition. It doesn't have my second response.
8 MS. JENKINS: You had an opportunity to
9 exchange the documents as of Friday last week after your
10 discussions earlier that week. Why is it you were unable
11 to get your strategy together to do that before this past
12 Friday?
13 MR. COUGHLIN: One, they already have those
14 documents because they were the opposing side in that
15 disability case.
16 Two, I didn't get the prehearing packet until
17 the 21st or 2nd, which was past. In order to know what is
18 missing from the prehearing packet, and what I needed to
19 respond with, I have to get the prehearing packet first.
20 So only if I'm getting the prehearing packet and looking
21 at it, where are the eight exhibits to the petition?
22 Where is my response? I have to get it first in order to
23 know, yeah, I'm going to put those in as evidence.
25 MS. FLOCCHINI: The State Bar inadvertently

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1 failed to include the eight exhibits to the petition.
2 have copies of those for the panel. Those should be

3 included.
4 The second response should have been included.
5 And I believe that it has been admitted as Exhibit 15 as
6 part of the record at this point.
7 MS. JENKINS: That's the second response?
9 MS. JENKINS: And the eight exhibits to the
10 initial filing -11 MS. FLOCCHINI: Yes.
12 MS. JENKINS: Are available -13 MS. FLOCCHINI: Yes.
14 MS. JENKINS: -- for the panel? What number
15 exhibit would we be proposing that it be?
16 MS. FLOCCHINI: Mr. Coughlin has been marking
17 exhibits in numerical order. If you'd like the State Bar
18 to mark them in alphabetical order.
19 MS. JENKINS: I would like the State Bar to
20 offer them to Mr. Coughlin to introduce as his exhibits,
21 if you wouldn't mind.
22 MS. FLOCCHINI: Not at all.
23 MS. JENKINS: Unless the State Bar has other
24 exhibits.
25 MS. FLOCCHINI: The State Bar has two

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1 exhibits.
2 MS. JENKINS: Well, I still think that
3 Mr. Coughlin just suggested that that be admitted. Just
4 because you have the copies doesn't mean it's your
5 exhibit. And Mr. Coughlin can go ahead and give that a
6 number.
7 MR. COUGHLIN: Your Honor, if I can -- though
8 it wasn't admitted, can I have Exhibit 16 marked and
9 included in the record?
10 MS. JENKINS: As a disallowed Exhibit?
11 MR. COUGHLIN: I think so, yeah.
12 MS. JENKINS: It can get marked for
13 identification, but it's not going to become a part of the
14 record because it's not allowed.
15 MR. COUGHLIN: But in the event that
16 hopefully -- and I don't even know if necessarily I have
17 an appellant right in this regard. But if it's ruled that
18 I'm not rehabilitated here, I might argue, well -- or that
19 I don't have the requisite competency and learning in the
20 law, I might argue, well, that might have been useful for
21 them to see.
22 MS. JENKINS: How do we deal with this?
23 MS. FLOCCHINI: I admit that I am newer to the
24 reinstatement, particularly in disability scenarios. But
25 I believe that the appropriate course is if the panel does

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1 not recommend reinstatement, the matter does not go up to

2 the supreme court.
3 MS. JENKINS: So the final say is this panel,
4 there's no appellate right?
5 MS. FLOCCHINI: If there's no recommendation
6 of reinstatement. If there is a recommendation for
7 reinstatement, it goes up. I may not be correct, but that
8 is my understanding.
9 MS. JENKINS: Then I would like the court
10 reporter to accept any documents that have not been
11 admitted and mark them as not admitted documents, put a
12 rubber band around them or whatever you do, and keep them
13 with the record, and we'll determine what to do with them
14 later.
15 MR. COUGHLIN: Thank you, your Honor. Now -16 MS. JENKINS: Mr. Coughlin, I apologize for
17 the irritation in my voice. But I will express once again
18 how disappointed I am that these documents are being
19 presented to the panel at the hearing rather than
20 beforehand. I thought we had a really good understanding
21 on the phone about how this was going to go. And we have
22 just spent a lot of time.
23 And it's really just you, me and Bar counsel
24 that could have been doing this rather than the other four
25 members of the panel whose time is very valuable. Please

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1 move on.
2 MR. COUGHLIN: I apologize for that, your
3 Honor. I need to get the prehearing packet before I know
4 what to challenge it with.
5 MS. JENKINS: This is the procedure we employ
6 in every disciplinary board matter. And that is that we
7 premark exhibits and we submit to opposing counsel. And
8 opposing counsel has an opportunity to respond and prepare
9 their case. And this is not the way it's supposed to go.
10 MR. COUGHLIN: I apologize. And I agree, your
11 Honor. My apologies.
12 So exhibit -13 MS. JENKINS: I think we thought it was number
14 18 to be considered next.
15 MR. COUGHLIN: Just for the purposes of 16 and
16 17 that you said to just include -17 MS. JENKINS: Put them on the table.
18 MR. COUGHLIN: Exhibit 18. I'm drawing to a
19 close here, your Honor. There is no Exhibit 19, just 20
20 and 21.
21 Exhibit 18 is a complete copy of the, not the
22 disability petition, but the whole file from that case.
23 So Bar counsel just gave me copies for the panel which is
24 helpful of the disability petition complete with the
25 actual attachments to it.

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1 But also included in that file would be the

2 additional response I keep referencing from July 2014, and
3 would also be Dr. Nielsen's report, would also be not too
4 much else really.
5 And I think the prehearing packet is in the
6 record? Because if it is, there's a 105-page filing in
7 there that I could find -- if that's in there, it doesn't
8 need to be in here.
9 My only thing that I think should be included
10 in some way from the whole file in the disability case is
11 that second response from me. Then I imagine the panel
12 would say, wait a second, we want to see Dr. Nielsen's
13 initial report too. And that would be in that file as
14 well.
15 MS. JENKINS: So Exhibit 18 that you would
16 like to proffer is?
17 MR. COUGHLIN: For judicial economy it might
18 just be easier to say -- and you've already ruled on this.
19 I think you said or you said conditionally that the July
20 2014 additional response by me to the disability petition,
21 I want to get that into evidence somehow, it was included
22 as another exhibit. So I was probably a bit remiss in
23 saying, well, let's make an exhibit that includes the
24 entire file.
25 Instead of the entire file, maybe just the

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1 complete disability petition with all the exhibits where

2 the exhibits were missing from the prehearing packet, plus
3 my additional response, plus Dr. Nielsen's report, his
4 first report that the Court relied on.
5 MS. JENKINS: Counsel I can't see or imagine
6 what all of that means because you don't have a copy to
7 offer to me. What you do have in your hands, as I
8 understand, are Exhibits 1 through 8 to the initial
9 petition disciplinary -- I'm sorry, disability petition
10 response. Am I right?
12 MS. JENKINS: The Exhibits 1 through 8 that
13 you offered with your response to the State Bar's petition
14 that you be placed on disability inactive status or that
15 you be adjudged to have a disability; is that correct?
16 MR. COUGHLIN: That, plus -17 MS. JENKINS: No. Is that what you have in
18 front of you in those copies?
19 MR. COUGHLIN: These are five copies for the
20 panel just of the petition with the attachments.
21 MS. JENKINS: It includes the petition or just
22 the attachments?
23 MR. COUGHLIN: It includes the nine pages of
24 petition.
25 MS. JENKINS: Would you like to mark that as

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1 Exhibit 18?
2 MR. COUGHLIN: Sure.
3 MS. JENKINS: Let's do that.
4 MR. COUGHLIN: I don't have a cover page.
5 MS. JENKINS: It's okay. You can write 18 on
6 one of them and provide it to the reporter.
7 Would you like to offer an Exhibit 19?
8 MR. COUGHLIN: Yes, your Honor. This is
9 drawing to a close very shortly here, this offering of
10 exhibits.
11 MS. JENKINS: You said Exhibit 19 is nothing?
12 MR. COUGHLIN: That's correct. I had to mark
13 that as blank.
14 MS. JENKINS: No problem.
15 MR. COUGHLIN: Then exhibit -16 MS. FLOCCHINI: May we go off the record?
17 (Discussion off the record.)
18 MS. JENKINS: Exhibit 20.
19 MR. COUGHLIN: Here it is, yes. Exhibit 20 is
20 the order and the disability petition. There's a sanction
21 in the family court case referenced. This is an order
22 showing that that was dismissed.
23 MS. JENKINS: Exhibit 20 is a document setting
24 aside the family court sanctions?
25 MR. COUGHLIN: The judge said I was sarcastic

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1 and some other things. An attorney's fee award was

2 assessed against me personally. That award was
3 referenced, I think it might have been attached even to
4 the disability petition. And this is an order showing
5 that it was set aside ultimately.
8 admission of Exhibit 20 under the basis of relevancy. If
9 you would like me to elaborate, I will.
10 MS. JENKINS: I'm guessing, not having the
11 document before me, that if the document is simply an
12 order setting aside a prior imposition of sanctions
13 without an explanation of why and what have you, it's not
14 going to be particularly helpful.
15 And again, I've been trying to avoid putting
16 into this record any discipline-based arguments.
17 MS. FLOCCHINI: Yes. To the extent that there
18 was activity that resulted in grievances that may have
19 then become disciplinary matters. The fact that there may
20 have been violations of Rules of Professional Conduct is
21 not the primary concern. The relevancy in the 117
22 petition of that conduct is that it exhibited a course of
23 conduct that was detrimental to the profession and was a
24 basis for a finding that Mr. Coughlin was not in a
25 position to be practicing and should be rendered disabled.

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1 Not so much that it was misconduct, but that it was not

2 appropriate conduct.
3 MS. JENKINS: Mr. Coughlin, is this document
4 that you're offering, does it in any way show that your
5 current behavior or your behavior has changed since that
6 time such that you're more able to or fit to practice law?
7 MR. COUGHLIN: Only to the extent that to know
8 whether or not it's changed, we need to know what it was.
9 And whether or not there was in fact an order saying that
10 ultimately stood wasn't set aside, that I did this or
11 that, we need to know. Was there an order? Have you
12 changed from that order? Oh, there was no order in the
13 first place because it was set aside.
14 I agree it's still a red flag that the judge
15 is not happy with you. But to know whether or not it
16 changed you need to know ultimately did she stand beside
17 that order? Because if she did, I didn't -18 MS. JENKINS: Does the document say why the
19 order was dismissed or why the sanction was -- why you
20 were released of the sanction? Does the document provide
21 any evidence of the reasons for that?
22 MR. COUGHLIN: To the extent it awards the
23 alimony I was purported to be litigious in seeking, yes.
24 But to really know why she set it aside, I think Pat King
25 should have done in the first place, could have saved

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1 everybody a lot of trouble. Gone back, taken the sanction

2 order, gone and looked at this case, okay, what happened
3 there? Oh, it was ultimately set aside. This isn't a
4 grievance.
5 MS. JENKINS: I'm not going to allow the
6 document.
7 MR. COUGHLIN: If I can -- one last thing. If
8 it was set aside because I filed a motion for
9 reconsideration, which I did, the review would probably
10 show that. That's all I would have said there, your
11 Honor. Just to add to that.
12 And then lastly -- and I really apologize this
13 is taking so long. But this would be Dr. Nielsen's report
14 which came in the form of the State Bar, his initial
15 report.
16 MS. JENKINS: The 2014 report?
17 MR. COUGHLIN: Yes. Based on July 2014
18 evaluation. It was ultimately filed September in the form
19 of a status update by the Bar attaching his evaluation.
20 MS. FLOCCHINI: And the State Bar has no
21 objection to the admission of Exhibit 21?
22 I will reference to the panel that it was
23 inadvertently not included in the hearing packet, but it
24 was provided to the supreme court in September of 2014
25 shortly after it was issued by Dr. Nielsen.

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1 MS. JENKINS: It will be admitted as Exhibit

2 21, I believe.
3 MR. COUGHLIN: Lastly, your Honor. No more
4 exhibits. But when I was searching around for this
5 additional response, I couldn't find it because I think
6 you had conditionally admitted it earlier. And that would
7 essentially accomplish what my goal was, was to have the
8 entire disability file available to the panel if they
9 sought the entire file from that disability case if they
10 felt it was useful in their evaluation.
11 MS. JENKINS: Good. I'm not going to preclude
12 you from adding additional exhibits, but I will discourage
13 you greatly.
14 MR. COUGHLIN: No more exhibits. I promise.
15 MS. JENKINS: So we have 15 minutes. Would
16 you like to begin or would you like to do something else?
17 MR. COUGHLIN: I would like to begin, if I
18 may, your Honor. And really, there's not much more to it
19 other than to say I'm very, very sorry. And I recognize I
20 ate very poorly, and I'm sorry for that. I'm committed to
21 getting back on track. That's all I have.
22 MS. JENKINS: Ms. Flocchini, do you have a
23 cross-examination of this witness?
24 MS. FLOCCHINI: Yes, I would like to ask a few
25 questions, if I may.

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1
2
3 CROSS-EXAMINATION
4 BY MS. FLOCCHINI:
5 Q Mr. Coughlin, in 2002 you applied for
6 admission to the Bar of Nevada; correct?
7 A Yes.
8 Q And there was some concerns that the
9 admissions board expressed to admitting you at that time?
10 A That's correct. That's correct.
11 And I guess, your Honor, I'd just make a
12 relevancy objection.
13 MS. JENKINS: The concerns of the State Bar at
14 your admission in 2002 are not relevant to this proceeding
15 is your objection?
16 MR. COUGHLIN: Yeah.
17 MS. JENKINS: Ms. Flocchini, why are they
18 relevant?
19 MS. FLOCCHINI: The concerns of the admissions
20 board are relevant because there was a concern at the
21 time, and I can go in more thoroughly upon further
22 questioning, about Mr. Coughlin's mental state and ability
23 to practice because of that.
24 So it shows an ongoing concern with his
25 ability to be stable while engaging in the stressful

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1 practice of law.
2 MS. JENKINS: I'm going to allow it.
3 BY MS. FLOCCHINI:
4 Q Mr. Coughlin, the admissions board held an
5 initial hearing in 2002; correct?
6 A Yes.
7 Q And at that hearing you admittedly had a bit
8 of a meltdown; correct?
9 A I don't know that I would characterize it that
10 way. I would object that the transcript of that hearing
11 is the best evidence there.
12 Q Would you disagree that at the subsequent 2004
13 hearing you personally characterized it as a meltdown?
14 A I don't think I ever did. I was highly,
15 highly critical of it and characterized it in some graphic
16 terms.
17 Q Okay. You were critical of your participation
18 in the 2002 hearing?
19 A Not my participation, no.
20 Q Were you critical of the hearing at the time
21 that it was taking place. Is that what you are testifying
22 to?
23 A It took place the day after the Bar exam in
24 California. I took the Bar exam, drove home that night.
25 Then I had a hearing with the character and fitness

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1 committee, and it was eventful. And the person chairing

2 it owned a strip club in Las Vegas.
3 Q So you attributed, it sounds like you
4 attributed your conduct at the hearing to stress
5 associated with taking the Bar?
6 A Yeah. Taking the Bar exam, driving back from
7 San Diego. I don't know what -- when you reference my
8 conduct, how I presented at the hearing would have been
9 influenced by that. It also would have been influenced by
10 a multitude of other factors, including the anger of the
11 individual owning the strip club in Las Vegas who was the
12 head of that committee.
13 Q Did the State Bar admit you to practice law
14 following that hearing?
15 A Conditionally.
16 Q What did they require you to do before
17 admitting you?
18 A There was -- well, I mean, that was a stated
19 period of time. I passed the Bar exam after my second
20 year of law school in the summer. I came back, I finished
21 law school, graduated in December. So ostensibly I could
22 have been sworn in at that time, January of 2002.
23 didn't have the hearing until, I believe it was after the

24 February Bar exam. They did proceed with the hearing for
25 a while. It was interesting how it was conducted. And I

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1 might not have been at my best. They might not have been
2 at their best. I don't know. And it was suspended.
3 Subsequently there was some stuff I prefer not
4 to go into, really, but where I was told I was going to
5 have a pro bono attorney appointed to me. I received some
6 calls telling me who to go to. I went to him. It
7 ultimately wasn't pro bono. He went to the hearing and
8 said I came to him on a pro bono basis. He never
9 clarified that. He said, no, you've actually paid five
10 grand.
11 And so we had another hearing in June 2002.
12 And then I just waited like most people in that character
13 and fitness limbo do. I waited. And then I got -- there
14 was an abeyance order entered, I believe in December of
15 2002 that we're going to wait until 2003, October 2003.
16 That came around. The pro bono took, quote un-quote, pro
17 bono attorney sort of stayed on the case. It was hard to
18 tell if he was still on the case or not.
19 Ultimately I submitted something, basically a
20 status update, a request for reconsideration at the
21 expiration of that abeyance period in 2003. Trace Ikeman,
22 who'd been working for the State Bar, failed to forward
23 that to the supreme court. A year of my life went by, and
24 then these letters from Coe Swobe and Kelly Teslin and
25 stuff like that, and I think Keith Lee got involved, and

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1 apparently I was given my license.

2 Apparently the decision was made to give me my
3 license in October of '04. I ultimately wasn't sworn in
4 for reasons I still don't understand until May of '05.
5 Q Okay. Between the time of the February 2002
6 hearing and the June 21st, 2002, hearing you met with a
7 counselor, Dr. Hunter; correct?
8 A Yes. I forgot to mention I did meet with
9 Dr. Hunter for approximately, I think it was six sessions.
10 And that was down in Las Vegas. And then we had that June
11 hearing. But then ultimately I got -- I had to get a job.
12 Got fired by Perry and Spann. Three months went by.
13 Where is your license? You don't have it yet? We have to
14 let you go.
15 Then I went out and passed the Patent Bar.
16 did a little work for Patton, piecemeal work. Basically

17 charity work for Patton, a firm down there, Anderson
18 Morrissey. Then I got hired by a defense firm in
19 Sacramento, a really good job for me. And I got there,
20 and the week I got there I got the abeyance order, which
21 was highly upsetting to them because they didn't want to
22 fly up to Vegas and do calendar calls. That was why they
23 brought me in. So I was let go from that.
24 Then -- I bring that up because ultimately I
25 said, okay, let's regroup. Let's go back to Reno. And I

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1 started seeing -- I think this might have been per a

2 mandate of the Bar, it might have been in that abeyance
3 order of December '02 saying go get counseling. So for
4 the next three years I saw Dr. Paul Rossky, a
5 psychologist, once a month. Then I was admitted in '05
6 with a conditional admission I continue to see him once a
7 month for another three years.
8 Q Dr. Hunter believed that your behavior in
9 February 2002 was in part due to an adjustment reaction.
10 And we heard testimony from Dr. Nielsen about adjustment
11 reaction. Do you remember that?
12 A Sure.
13 Q And the readjustment reaction, Dr. Hunter
14 believed that was from a normal person undergoing
15 substantial situational stress. Does that sound familiar?
16 A Yes.
17 Q With Dr. Hunter you identified -- and I think
18 that there's been testimony before -- that the period
19 going up to February 2002 was extremely stressful for you?
20 A Going up to the start of '02?
21 Q Up to February of '02 when you met with the
22 character and fitness panel on the hearing?
23 A Sure.
24 Q As it might be for anyone, it was a stressful
25 period?

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1 A Yep.
2 Q And the concern was that you didn't react to
3 the stress well; is that accurate?
4 A Well, I passed the hardest Bar exams in the
5 country just prior to that. And then I went and
6 represented myself the day after the Bar exam at a
7 disciplinary hearing which noticed insufficiencies and
8 things of that sort at the State Bar of Nevada.
9 So I would say I would put that up against how
10 most people handle stress and say I performed adequately
11 in that regard. But I will say there was definitely some
12 aspects of my life that needed addressing.
13 Q You have submitted as an exhibit to this
14 hearing documentation showing 104.5 hours of continuing
15 education in law. And my review of that shows that you -16 it appears that you have completed 13 hours on August 14,
17 20 hours on August 15, 21 hours on August 16, 40 hours on
18 August 18, and 11 hours on August 19th. Did you take
19 those CLE courses during that week?
20 A No. Those were all downloaded. Those were
21 just MP-3 files. Then you listen for a code,
22 participation code. And I did that -- some I did in my
23 free time, some I did while being a painter's assistant.
24 I do monotonous tasks that allow me to listen to audio all
25 day.

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1 Then I'd write down the codes on different

2 pieces of paper. Sometimes -- a few of the instances, I
3 had some codes written on one piece of paper, codes I
4 gathered at work. And then another piece of paper was
5 codes I listened to at the mall or somewhere where there
6 was WiFi. So then when I'd get a piece of paper full of a
7 bunch of codes on those different dates I would log on and
8 type in the codes to get the certificate of completion.
9 So no, it's not as though I completed 40 hours
10 of CLE in one day. It's just that that's when I finally
11 logged on, said here's all the codes. The tedious process
12 of listening to these codes interspersed one time in an
13 hour-long CLE.
14 Q Over what period of time did you take all of
15 these CLEs?
16 A It would have been in the last approximately
17 six weeks. There were a couple -- there was approximately
18 three or four CLEs that I also took in April when I went
19 to the Other Bar retreat, which is an organization in
20 California. I went to that retreat aboard the Queen Mary
21 in Long Beach in April. And I don't know -- those, I paid
22 for those and got credit for those, as far as I know.
23 They're reported to the CLE board of Nevada. The ones in
24 California, I don't think they were processed. They might
25 have been approved for Nevada credit, but there are only

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1 three of them.
2 Q So then 104.5 hours of CLE in approximately
3 six weeks?
4 A Yes.
5 Q And you would have taken those courses perhaps
6 while you were working or hanging out at the mall or
7 whatever over a course of time?
8 A Uh-huh. Or yes.
11 Q Did you take any steps to address the
12 adjustment reaction that Dr. Hunter identified?
13 A This would have been -- you're saying prior to
14 that reconvening for the hearing in June of '02 after I
15 had seen him for six sessions?
16 Q I would imagine that it would be sometime in
17 '02. I don't know if it would have been prior to the June
18 hearing or not.
19 But the identified adjustment reaction, what
20 did you do to try to address?
21 A Well, I know I didn't identify myself to the
22 State Bar as an alcoholic at that time. In fact, I only
23 did that probably sometime in, I would say, April of '03.
24 So I went to the sessions. I continued on
25 with my life. I started going to some AA meetings, I

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1 believe sometime in '02. And that's about the time I met

2 Coe Swobe, he gave me a phone call when I was down there.
3 But I think at that time it wasn't like, okay,
4 we have this hearing in June. Clearly your problem is you
5 have a substance abuse problem, so we're going to go to
6 the hearing, put on a bunch of evidence about what you
7 have done to address that. That wasn't brought up at all
8 at the hearing really.
9 I just underwent an adjustment disorder
10 reaction. And I did some therapy with Dr. Hunter. And
11 some time passed. So I guess what I'm getting at.
12 There's been an evolution. I was 25 years old at that
13 point, and I had gone straight through college and law
14 school and passed the Bar and never had much trouble in
15 the traditional kind of juvenile delinquent sense of the
16 word trouble.
17 Q Are you still working for Gary Teen Painting?
18 A Yes.
19 Q After the hearing today will you go back to
20 San Diego to continue working at Gary Teen Painting?
21 A Probably.
22 Q Dr. Nielsen's initial report identified a
23 dependent personality disorder, you have a dependent
24 personality disorder, and Dr. Nielsen discussed that
25 briefly in his testimony.

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1 What steps have you taken to address that

2 particular issue?
3 A Well I studied it. I pulled up the Wikipedia
4 page for dependent personality disorder, and I read some
5 associated articles on it. And there was five subtypes of
6 it, amongst which I think he listed the depression,
7 anxious subvariety dependent personality disorder.
8 The steps I've taken is the therapy I've done
9 and continued to do after. That diagnosis was based on a
10 July 2014, two evaluations over about eight hours, I
11 think. And from that point in time I've continued seeing
12 Dr. Pittinger who works on the CBT, DVT, RAVT, and TA. So
13 I worked on that, that step with Dr. Pittinger through
14 some sessions, and then I continued on.
15 I'm sorry. Your question was what I have I
16 done to?
17 Q To address the dependent personality issues?
18 A See, I didn't even get that until September of
19 2014. So -20 Q In September, approximately September 2014,
21 you began to withdraw from the work you were doing with
22 NNAMHS; correct?
23 A Yes. I had been on -- I did -- I was wanting
24 to follow Dr. Nielsen's recommendation to leave the area
25 for a while, get a change of scenery. And then I actually

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1 got off probation. Which I was on probation, and I wasn't

2 allowed to leave until I got off that. And I was being
3 drug and alcohol tested and had a travel restriction.
4 Once I got off that, I decided to follow Dr. Nielsen's
5 recommendation and got a change of scenery.
6 Q And you went to Santa Barbara?
7 A Yes. There was a couple stops before that,
8 but yeah.
9 Q Are you currently taking Wellbutrin?
10 A Yes.
11 Q Are you taking any other medication?
12 A No.
13 Q What steps have you taken to address your
14 depression besides taking Wellbutrin?
15 A Well, the 12-step work I think is pretty good
16 in that regard. I've read books on and done some
17 workbooks on cognitive behavioral therapy and the
18 dialectical behavioral therapy that they were -- that
19 Dr. Nielsen's referenced as being the foundation or the
20 chief emphasis of Dr. Hoar's treatment approach. As well
21 as on the acceptance and commitment therapy that
22 Dr. Pittinger was more emphasizing.
23 I've gone to church. Restarted attending
24 church. And I work out regularly now. Swimming, doing
25 something I've adopted as a fitness activity I do more.

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1 And I reach out to people in recovery programs, try to

2 force myself to have more of a social network or sphere,
3 trying to avoid isolation that's so associated with people
4 in recovery.
5 Q What do you do at this time to handle stress?
6 A All of those things I just mentioned, plus
7 trying to maintain perspective, trying to constantly be
8 aware of the extent to which ego and fear and self-seeking
9 dishonesty and self-pity contribute so much to stress.
10 And if I can get out of myself and my own wishes and think
11 of other people, that helps me to have some perspective
12 and not feel that stressed. Which I found the stress was
13 often associated with my own self-conceptions, and needing
14 to be this ultra-high-achieving person. And whenever I
15 fell short of that was a real dissonance in me that was
16 very discomforting and resulting in stress.
17 Just basically realizing that whether or not I
18 get this or that job or this or that material possession
19 or have this or that affirmation directed toward you by
20 this or that person is not that important. It's not a
21 basis to get so stressed out. And it's not a basis to get
22 so stressed out to the point where you need to go -- or I
23 need to go start using substances or doing any other
24 number of activities. Self-defeating, self-seeking type
25 of activities. Whether it be workaholism, engaging in

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1 anger, things of that sort.

2 Q Can you identify a time in the last eight
3 months when you have had a very stressful situation,
4 identifying that going into recovery is stressful.
5 understand that. But an occasion when there was a highly

6 stressful moment, and how you handled it?
7 A Well, this proceeding would be a very good
8 example of that. Because my initial approach to this
9 proceeding was more one based in I would say fear.
10 Whereas my filing of last week very much wanted to limit
11 what this panel was able to see and have access to and
12 insisted this was not a misconduct reinstatement hearing.
13 And I have a much lower standard. I have to meet here
14 because I got the gift of being declared disabled, so I'm
15 not subject to the stringent approach of 116. Or if I get
16 the kinder, gentler approach of 117.2.
17 That was very stressful because I thought it's
18 highly likely the panel is going to be aware of a good
19 deal, not all, but maybe some of all this stuff. And so I
20 just I went to my meetings, continued to go to recovery
21 meetings and talk to people whose opinions I value,
22 including my parents, and my sponsor. And I had several
23 conversations with Mitch Cobeaga, who took over for Coe as
24 the director for Lawyers Concerned With Lawyers.
25 In fact, I called Mitch on Sunday, which I

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1 felt pretty bad about, but he got right back to me. And
2 we hashed it out. And he actually -- he liked the
3 approach. And I had been -- I sent him the filing I did
4 last week on the 21st, the 10-page thing saying it's very
5 limited, the panel can't consider all this other stuff.
6 sent him that, and he liked that approach.

7 In fact, that filing last week didn't mention
8 recovery at all. He liked that approach, and he thought
9 it was probably a good tack to take. But ultimately
10 because I think he didn't have a grasp of all the ins and
11 outs of both the disciplinary case and the disability
12 case, he didn't have quite the grasp of everything. So
13 ultimately I decided, no, I think it's better to go with
14 the transparency and allow the panel to get more
15 information.
16 As a consequence I've seen, in my view, this
17 hearing has gone much differently than it went in the past
18 in my previous disciplinary hearing. I won't get too into
19 it, but that same fear was attendant to that. And
20 unfortunately, it caused me to present at that hearing in
21 a very defensive and perhaps an overly antagonistic way.
22 And that's probably consistent, that's
23 probably a consistent description of most of my
24 interactions with Mr. King, former Bar counsel, in that
25 regard. And I apologize for that. And I regret that.

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1 Because I think Mr. King had some really good traits, and
2 I wish that that entire prior process from the inception
3 of the initial contact from Mr. King in March of 2012 on
4 through a full-blown disciplinary hearing in November, I
5 wish that entire process could have been more, more
6 replete with the sort of approach to handle some of the
7 stress that I have just detailed here.
8 MS. FLOCCHINI: Those are all my questions.
9 MS. JENKINS: I'm going to call a time out for
10 our hearing until Mr. Denney is able to rejoin us at
11 whatever time that is, approximately an hour from now.
12 MR. COUGHLIN: Your Honor, if I can just
13 interject. If the Bar is in agreement with this, I don't
14 have anything further to offer, and I don't intend to put
15 on a lot of closing argument. To be respectful of the
16 panel's time, if the Bar is done, I've made my argument
17 here, and I would submit that this panel at this point can
18 assess how it feels without any further -19 MS. JENKINS: I appreciate that. I want to
20 give Ms. Flocchini an opportunity to review her notes and
21 make sure that there's nothing further that she wants to
22 present to the panel. And I would like to hear a closing
23 statement. Doesn't have to be argument, remember,
24 regarding what this panel should look at and be very
25 specific and focused when we return.

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1 (Recess taken.)
2 MS. JENKINS: Back on the record. It's just
3 before 3:00 o'clock.
4 Bar counsel, do you have additional evidence
5 to present to the panel?
6 MS. FLOCCHINI: Before we get back into the
7 substance, I would like to present a little bit of
8 information. The first of which is that on the break I
9 rereviewed Supreme Court Rule 117, consulted more
10 experienced Bar counsel, and I do believe that whatever
11 recommendation the panel has, the panel's decision is
12 required to be submitted to the supreme court, whatever it
13 is.
14 Under 116 it's only if the recommendation is
15 for reinstatement does it go up. But under 117 it makes
16 no distinction between a written decision that recommends
17 reinstatement or a written decision that does not
18 recommend reinstatement.
19 MS. JENKINS: So in either event, this record
20 is going up to the supreme court for consideration because
21 it's just a recommendation anyway.
22 MS. FLOCCHINI: True that.
23 MS. JENKINS: Good to know.
24 MS. FLOCCHINI: Then also with that in mind,
25 as we were discussing the process of submitting a

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1 recommendation, the denial of reinstatement then -- or

2 the request for reinstatement, if that were to happen,
3 would ultimately be by the supreme court. And as we
4 discussed earlier, you're only allowed to petition once a
5 year for reinstatement under SCR 117.
6 In that case that year, I believe, would not
7 start running until the supreme court denied the initial
8 request, which is a longer delay than we even envisioned
9 because of the way that the wheels turn.
10 MS. JENKINS: That doesn't seem fair.
11 However, thank you for that input.
12 MS. FLOCCHINI: In addition, the State Bar
13 would like to have the hearing exhibit marked as Exhibit
14 A.
15 MS. JENKINS: The State Bar would like to have
16 the hearing exhibit?
17 MS. FLOCCHINI: Thank you. The hearing
18 packet.
19 MS. JENKINS: The prehearing packet that was
20 distributed to the panel?
21 MS. FLOCCHINI: True. Yes.
22 MS. JENKINS: Marked as Bar Exhibit A?
24 MS. JENKINS: Any objection, Mr. Coughlin?

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1 MS. JENKINS: It will be admitted.

2 MS. FLOCCHINI: Thank you. And the Bar is not
3 offering, as the panel is maybe accustomed to seeing, an
4 affidavit of admission to the Bar, and an affidavit of
5 discipline in this case, because there is no discipline
6 that is unrelated to matters that the panel chair has
7 identified are not under consideration here.
8 So there are some decisions that are related
9 to disciplinary proceedings that are not before you, not
10 for your consideration.
11 And the only other order that would be
12 relevant is contained in the hearing packet, which is
13 Exhibit A before you. And so for keeping information all
14 in one place and not duplicating, we're not presenting an
15 affidavit, and I wanted you to know why.
17 MS. FLOCCHINI: I have had a brief opportunity
18 to look over the questions and review the testimony that
19 we've had so far. I only have two more questions for
20 Mr. Coughlin.
22 Q Mr. Coughlin, in 2002 it was identified that
23 one of the reasons for the adjustment reaction that
24 Dr. Hunter identified was the end of a relationship; is
25 that correct?

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1 A I can't recall, but that sounds right.

2 Q Then again in 2011 when some of the issues
3 that resulted in the disability petition being filed
4 occurred, that also coincided with the end of a long-term
5 relationship for you; correct?
6 A That's correct.
7 MS. FLOCCHINI: I just wanted to make sure
8 that that information was included. It was in the
9 documents. And that is the end of questions I have.
10 MS. JENKINS: Are there any questions from the
11 panel of Mr. Coughlin?
12 MR. DENNEY: No.
13 MR. LOW: No.
14 MR. FURMAN: No.
15 MS. BRETERNITZ: No.
16 MS. JENKINS: Great. Let's do some closing
17 statements.
18 Ms. Flocchini.
19 MS. FLOCCHINI: As the State Bar indicated at
20 the beginning of this hearing, we're recommending that
21 this panel hold Mr. Coughlin's request for reinstatement
22 in abeyance. We're proposing six months, a six-month
23 hold, at which time then a status hearing could be held.
24 And the basis for the recommendation and the
25 evidence, I believe has borne out here, that Mr. Coughlin

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1 is only at approximately eight months of sobriety at this

2 point. He has had approximately four months of therapy,
3 meaningful therapy. I believe that he engaged in therapy
4 prior, but it appears that the last eight months, during
5 which time he's had that therapy, this new therapist, and
6 committed himself to the 12-step program has been
7 meaningfully different than his prior attempts.
8 And the State Bar recognizes that, and doesn't
9 question the credibility of the witnesses at this point
10 that have testified to his engagement in the process.
11 Nonetheless, probably to paraphrase
12 Dr. Nielsen, because I don't want to say I'm quoting him
13 directly, the evidence is that Mr. Coughlin can stand on
14 his own two feet, but he's not finished yet. And the
15 State Bar's concern is that standing on your own two feet
16 is not engaging in the practice of law and submitting
17 yourself to the stress that's involved in every day
18 practice.
19 The evidence is that the situation is better,
20 but he has not yet exhibited a fitness to practice law.
21 The evidence before you is that there is -- there's been
22 no stressful situation akin to trial or a heavy motion
23 practice which he has yet to weather except for the
24 hearing here. And it's safe to say that this process has
25 been better than the process of the character and fitness

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1 hearing in 2002, and it's better than Mr. Coughlin's

2 behavior in court in 2012.
3 But the State Bar still has some concerns,
4 because some of Mr. Coughlin's conduct is similar to that
5 which he engaged in previously. For example, not
6 following the direction of the court with respect to
7 exhibit exchanges, and instead engaging in some pretty
8 voluminous briefing that wasn't anticipated, including
9 submitting a 26-page brief this morning. There may be
10 good work in there, but it's an indication of not being
11 ready to take on the stress of the practicing yet. The
12 fact that it was submitted this morning and not at some
13 point prior, or even anticipated as of last week.
14 The State Bar's recommendation for the status
15 hearing would be something to the effect of submitting
16 evidence of continued attendance at Alcoholics Anonymous
17 or maintaining the 12-step program.
18 Evidence of continuing to work during the
19 time, whether that be at the painting job, which shows an
20 ability to stay within the profession or another job that
21 would be reasonable under the circumstances.
22 And also a submission by Mr. Coughlin of a
23 clear defined plan on how he would intend to enter back
24 into practice. And that kind of plan may include
25 identifying resources, personal insight on triggers which

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1 I believe Mr. Coughlin -- the State Bar believes the

2 evidence has shown Mr. Coughlin has started down that
3 path, but may not be fully there and ready to identify the
4 triggers as they happen.
5 In addition, a plan, a proposed plan, may
6 include a potential mentor and really steps on how to
7 transition back to Nevada to practice or alternatively
8 not, how to practice outside of Nevada, and that there is
9 a clear plan in place for engaging in the practice of law
10 if he were to be reinstated.
11 I think it's also important, knowing the fact
12 that there are outside stressors not just the practice of
13 law, that have affected Mr. Coughlin's ability to practice
14 in the past that there also be an identified plan for
15 handling life stressors beyond just exercising daily,
16 which we all have the intention to do, but does tend to
17 fall by the wayside as stress increases. And if that's a
18 particular outlet for you or you need that, then you need
19 to figure out how to maintain that and show that you can
20 continue it.
21 So that is the State Bar's summary of
22 evidence, and our recommendation for your recommendation
23 to the supreme court. And I believe if the panel held the
24 matter in abeyance, it would not go up for review to the
25 supreme court, it would just sit in status in an open

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1 proceeding. And then after the status hearing if you

2 deemed it appropriate to then make a recommendation to the
3 supreme court, then it would go up.
4 MS. JENKINS: Ms. Flocchini, would it be your
5 guess about how it might work that this panel would be
6 reconvened in its current form to hear those narrow
7 updates that you just described and not to rehear the
8 entire case or would we start from zero at that point?
9 MS. FLOCCHINI: The State Bar's recommendation
10 would be to only obtain status information. Our
11 recommendation is directed toward these particular
12 categories. If the panel felt there were other categories
13 other areas that they wanted to make sure they had
14 sufficient information regarding before making a decision
15 on reinstatement, then just those limited areas, not a
16 full rehash of the hearing.
17 And at the time of deciding, if the panel felt
18 at that point that they had sufficient information to
19 decide whether or not to recommend reinstatement, they
20 would consider the information presented here today, and a
21 full transcript would be available, but we would not redo
22 that.
24 MR. COUGHLIN: Thank you. I appreciate the
25 panel taking the time to be here today, especially on a

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1 volunteer basis all day. Very commendable.

2 My overarching sentiment here is contrition
3 and remorse for what went on, what happened, how I carried
4 myself. I feel very poorly about that. I still have a
5 great deal of regret about that. I truly do. And it's
6 something beyond just feeling bad for how I behaved toward
7 other people. And it's also very troubling to me in the
8 sense that I just don't want to go back to being in these
9 contentious situations, especially with entities that are
10 so much more powerful than I am.
11 That being said, I've been out, unable to
12 practice law in Nevada for quite some time now. And that
13 is -- you'll feel that. I don't know if anybody in this
14 room has ever been suspended for a day. But I've been
15 suspended for 38 months now either through an indefinite
16 temporary suspension that issues automatically upon a
17 conviction having any element of theft in it. Mine was
18 theft of $14 of cough syrup from a Walmart.
19 I wasn't given a disciplinary suspension for
20 three years. I was placed on automatic suspension, which
21 is what SCR 116.6 says. Anytime you're convicted of any
22 crime, if you steal a grape, it involves theft, you're
23 automatically suspended. Then you get referred to a
24 panel, and they issue a, you know, you're referred to the
25 panel for the purpose of determining the extent, nature

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1 and extent of your punishment.

2 I got referred to a panel, and instead of
3 having a hearing on that, and I appreciate the extent to
4 which the panel chair today has been diligent making sure
5 this hearing is focused on what rules it's supposed to be
6 focused on. Because earlier the referral to the panel
7 resulted in a disciplinary hearing on what's the
8 punishment for the cough syrup theft.
9 We had a full-blown disciplinary trial that
10 included allegations for things like the divorce attorney
11 fee award sanction thing that was set aside, and other
12 things that were either set aside or just ultimately
13 didn't pan out in any sort of finding of misconduct.
14 I go into that because that's a lengthy time
15 to be out of the practice of law, out of being able to
16 practice your chosen profession. I would submit anyone
17 here who's put in that situation it would be unfair to sit
18 back and say, okay, so, whatever it is, 29 months in, you
19 smoked some pot 29 months into that? Okay, that's going
20 to set you back another couple of years because now we
21 want to see two years of established sobriety.
22 I don't think that's fair. I've had years of
23 sobriety before. I wasn't cured. You don't get cured.
24 It's a chronic lifelong thing you manage. It's not you
25 establish you are cured, and that's a guarantee to you

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1 you're never going to drink or use again.

2 Frankly -- so the Bar's concerned -- I would
3 not support an abeyance of another six months. I don't
4 think there is even support for that in the rules at all.
5 I think the rules require this panel to issue a
6 recommendation within 30 days. I don't think it has the
7 jurisdiction to enter an abeyance for another six months.
8 And I would submit that I don't want it to. I want a
9 decision within the allotted time under the rules, and
10 then I will go from there.
11 In reality an abeyance would, particularly
12 given what Ms. Flocchini said earlier about how the time
13 from which I can file another -- in her view the time in
14 which I can file another reinstatement petition would be
15 measured from the date of denial rather than the date of
16 my filing of the previous one.
17 So if that's the case, then we do an abeyance
18 for six months, and then that one, let's say then this
19 panel makes a decision and says okay, reinstate. Granted,
20 the court would probably follow suit and reinstate me at
21 that point. But if they didn't, then we're talking I've
22 been suspended for over five years, and that invokes you
23 have to take the Bar exam again rule. And at that point I
24 would be surprised if I even was interested in practicing
25 law in Nevada anymore if it got to be where I had been

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1 suspended for over five years.

2 I think you have to compare -- to have
3 consistency in disciplinary proceedings you have to
4 compare other cases. We had a case here that involved the
5 same testifying expert. The case was the Stephen R.
6 Harris case. Mr. Harris admitted to misappropriating
7 $800,000 from clients. Mr. Harris never had a disability
8 petition filed against him.
9 Dr. Nielsen testified at his proceeding that
10 he was diagnosed, Harris was diagnosed with, I believe
11 it's significant anxiety disorders, and I believe it was
12 substance abuse and sex addiction. Mr. Harris never had a
13 disability petition filed against him.
14 The Nevada Supreme Court suspended Mr. Harris
15 for three months. Granted, Mr. Harris paid back all the
16 money to the clients, self-reported his misconduct. He
17 did a lot of things right. You have to give him credit
18 for that. And I know Mr. Harris and respect him. And I
19 can tell you I've been impressed with his efforts in
20 recovery.
21 Nonetheless, the misconduct we have here is
22 $14. Cough syrup from a Walmart. It's not 800 grand from
23 a client. So to suggest another six months needs to be
24 added on to this I would submit is hard to rationalize
25 when considering that Mr. Harris had three months

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1 suspension. Granted, it was three years. Two years and

2 nine months of it was suspended provided he submit to a
3 monitoring program. But it was three months of actual
4 suspension imposed.
5 So I've already been suspended for 38 months.
6 Suspended -- or I'm not suspended now, I'm on disability
7 inactive status. And that's what my filing from last week
8 went to some length to point out the distinction, and how
9 that is, in my view, supposed to auger for a lesser
10 standard in terms of what I need to show for
11 rehabilitation here. And I've gone into some of the
12 relevancy issues with respect to how much can I go into
13 past misconduct, or lack thereof, to prove character, but
14 I can't. So this is an odd kind of awkward setting, the
15 disability setting in terms of relevancy.
16 But I can submit to you truthfully that I have
17 learned a great deal from this. And I've grown a lot, and
18 I'm solid now. I'm well. I'm ready to practice law. In
19 fact, I think if I'm not reinstated soon, one, it's going
20 to send a poor message out. Considering the publicness of
21 this proceeding, it's going to send a poor message to the
22 other attorneys in the public, and it's going to do a
23 disservice to me.
24 The poor message it will send out is look at
25 how Mr. Coughlin came to this proceeding, was extremely

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1 transparent and cooperative in this proceeding. In fact,

2 Dr. Nielsen's initial report, which you will now have the
3 benefit of being able to review, and I think it's better
4 that way than if I had given it to you two weeks ago.
5 think looking back at this you might agree with me that

6 some of the annoyance you feel at not having the exhibits
7 and all this stuff two weeks ago, you'll have much the
8 same take that my therapists said.
9 Because I only gave them this report after
10 they had met with me a couple of times, and they both said
11 if they had gotten that report up front before they had
12 known me, they'd probably not want me as -- that's a
13 little severe, but they would have been scared of me or
14 something. Or just they would have developed preconceived
15 notions about me.
16 But I get back to how transparent I've been
17 here, and how -- or the level of transparency I've offered
18 here in terms of providing this panel with that which the
19 Bar did not in its prehearing packet and beyond, and the
20 level of cooperation I've evidenced.
21 The cooperation is underscored by the fact
22 that Dr. Nielsen's report, his initial evaluation, the one
23 which the court referenced in its disability order as one
24 of the bases for finding me disabled. His initial report
25 doesn't say I have a substance abuse problem at all. It

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1 says I have -- or it says it's in full remission. It says

2 that I have a dependent personality disorder and mild
3 depression.
4 So that report's filed. My level of
5 cooperation in willingness to be transparent to the panel
6 and the Bar as evidenced by my subsequently going back and
7 filing with the court in the related disciplinary case,
8 I'm going back to AA again, I'm addressing the stuff,
9 getting off the Adderall. He didn't say I had a problem
10 with Adderall in the report. He said dependent
11 personality, mild depression. Go get therapy.
12 I've gone above and beyond, pointed out the
13 things I can do to get better and improve myself. And I
14 shouldn't be punished by saying, let's look at you for
15 another six months. That should be rewarded. Otherwise,
16 it's discouraging attorneys from taking an honest look at
17 their life and being cooperative with the Bar, and taking
18 steps necessary to avoid some of the things that happened
19 here.
20 But I would just close by saying that I do
21 truly feel remorse for what happened, all the things that
22 happened. I know this panel maybe said what happened?
23 You don't even know. And that's some of the relevancy and
24 some of the -- but some things happened. I don't believe
25 in the vast majority of instances they rose to the level

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1 of misconduct. We don't have misconduct findings here.

2 We don't have offensive collateral bars preventing me from
3 saying there wasn't misconduct, because the whole
4 disciplinary case was thrown out.
5 Nonetheless, I'm not looking at that saying,
6 hey, I don't have to change anything about my life. Far
7 from it. I have had a very, very difficult time, there's
8 been a lot of guilt and remorse and contrition. And
9 that's useful to me going forward.
10 And I fear that being out of the practice of
11 law for even longer is going to pose the threat of
12 lessening my momentum. And I speak from personal
13 experience with that. I know in 2002 to 2005 what that's
14 like. Freud says to work is one of the most important
15 things in somebody's life. So when you take a lawyer, and
16 you say you're not going to have your license for two or
17 three years, I submit there should be a really, really
18 profound argument and rationale for protecting the public
19 to justify that. And that's not present here.
20 Particularly where I didn't misappropriate $800,000 from
21 clients.
22 So to take away any further my ability to
23 practice my chosen profession is going to pose a threat to
24 my momentum, and I think it's going to send the wrong
25 message to other attorneys. I have great respect for the

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1 panel, and I appreciate you taking the time to be here.

2 Thank you.
3 MS. JENKINS: Thank you, Counsel.
4 Is there anything the panel wishes to ask or
5 add to our information before we go into recess and
6 deliberations?
7 MR. LOW: No.
8 MS. JENKINS: Great. Then we'll stand
9 adjourned -- or not adjourned, but in time out, because
10 we're going to go into deliberations. We need to clear
11 the room, including our court reporter.
12 And if the parties wish to hang around. If we
13 come to a determination we will go back onto the record to
14 make that finding. So you're welcome to hang out in the
15 lobby for as long as we're here. If we do not come to a
16 determination today, we can meet again to deliberate. But
17 if we do finish today, we'll do an open placing on the
18 record of our findings.
19 (Recess taken.)
20 MS. JENKINS: Let's go back onto the record at
21 4:12 P.M.
22 The panel has considered the testimony today
23 and the evidence that was presented, and in very short
24 order came to unanimity about how to address the
25 circumstances presented in the petition.

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1 First, we considered at great length Rule 117

2 and our charge. And we found that there was a great deal
3 of evidence that was very pertinent to our deliberations
4 today.
5 What the panel has determined is that we need
6 a bit more information from you, sir. And that is, we
7 would like to request and give you a reasonable
8 opportunity to propose a reinstatement plan to this panel
9 before it issues its opinion. And that reinstatement plan
10 will be due not later than November 15th.
11 This body will reconvene at its earliest
12 convenience, there's no reason to delay, and issue its
13 order appropriate based upon the hearing today, as well as
14 your proposed plan. And that plan should be submitted to
15 me as the panel chair and to Ms. Flocchini.
16 If the proposed plan that you send to us meets
17 the directives that I'm about to give to you, I'll submit
18 it to the remaining panel members. I'm going to send it
19 to them anyway either way, but with my determination about
20 whether it meets or does not meet the detailed outlines
21 that I'm going to give to you right now.
22 And if it does meet the outline, we'll convene
23 in a conference call, finalize our decision, and issue an
24 appropriate order as quickly as possible. I'm hoping to
25 have it all done well before the Thanksgiving holiday,

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1 because I have plans. Much, much incentive there.

2 We would like to hear from you your ideas
3 about your reinstatement, removal of your disability
4 status, and your return to the practice of law in the
5 following areas.
6 Number one. Your plan to obtain and determine
7 an appropriate attorney within the 12-step program to be
8 your sobriety mentor. That's in addition to any sponsor
9 you may have, in addition to any colleague that you might
10 have supporting your sobriety, but an attorney in the
11 program who will agree to work with you for a two-year
12 period.
13 We would also like for you to identify an
14 attorney who will mentor you in your law practice in
15 Nevada for that same two-year period. And we will ask
16 those attorney mentors to work with you closely and
17 support your success and report by letter or email to the
18 State Bar for that two-year period on a quarterly basis
19 reporting challenges and successes and your progress.
20 To you, it is up to you to find those
21 individuals, and they must have been active in the
22 practice of law for not less than 15 years. Because we
23 feel like having a much more experienced attorney is not
24 going to let anybody get away with anything. He's going
25 to be able to see through an awful lot of shenanigans, and

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1 talking the talk but not walking the walk. So those

2 people we're asking to report quarterly to the Bar about
3 your progress.
4 We want to hear from you your plan to attend
5 three meetings a week, as well as an additional three
6 hours a week with a sponsor or equivalent in the 12-step
7 program separate from your mentor. So adding people to
8 your support network is critical.
9 We would like your plan to include your
10 ability and your steps toward obtaining independent
11 therapeutic counseling of not less than twice per month
12 for that two-year period. Someone you're comfortable with
13 who is licensed in some way. So that means that while we
14 have testimony that it may not be a psychologist or a
15 psychiatrist or whatever, an MST would be fine, but we
16 prefer that it not be a religious practitioner or some
17 other counselor. We're talking about mental health
18 counseling.
19 We would like for you to submit to and include
20 in your plan your ability to pay for drug and alcohol
21 testing as requested by the Bar. And will be informing
22 your two mentors who are attorneys that they can request
23 that the Bar request your alcohol or drug counseling, as
24 well as the State Bar doing it based upon any reports or
25 concerns that the State Bar might have.

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1 MR. LOW: You said drug counseling. You mean

2 drug testing.
3 MS. JENKINS: I'm sorry, drug testing, alcohol
4 and drug testing.
5 We would like to have your reinstatement plan,
6 how you might achieve that, pay for it, what have you.
7 And then we would like for you to identify
8 more substantively in this plan where you hope to
9 practice. How are you going to support yourself until a
10 practice brings you the financial compensation required to
11 support yourself? Identify what triggers there are in
12 your life that cause you to be either stressed or to want
13 to return to alcohol or substance abuse.
14 And frankly, we want your plan to include any
15 other information that you think is going to be critical.
16 Not helpful, not interesting, critical, to the panel's
17 determination that your plan is a plan for success.
18 Do you have any questions about what this plan
19 might look like and how to present that to us?
20 MR. COUGHLIN: You mentioned November 15th is
21 a deadline by which -22 MS. JENKINS: Yes.
23 MR. COUGHLIN: -- referring the plan could be
24 submitted earlier than that?
25 MS. JENKINS: I'm going to suggest to you that

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1 it's going to take some time to find these individuals and

2 get them up to speed about what their obligations might
3 be, for you to determine where you're going to reside, and
4 your plan to do all of these things that I've asked you to
5 outline.
6 I'm not guessing that that can be done by the
7 end of this week, although I'm sure you want to submit the
8 plan by the end of this week. What I would like you to be
9 is very thoughtful and considered about the information
10 you're going to share with us.
11 If that can be submitted to us in a shorter
12 period, I'll accept it. But I want it to be complete and
13 comprehensive, because the panel also believes that a plan
14 is the best path away from stress. And it's been the
15 panel's determination that stress is a huge one of your
16 triggers that causes behavior that puts you on disability
17 inactive in the first place.
18 So if you can develop a very thorough, and I
19 know you can be thorough, a thorough and well-considered
20 plan in less time, feel free to submit it. I don't want
21 this to be your life work, and I don't want it to be 300
22 pages. I want it to be a brief overview. And certainly a
23 plan is subject to changes. But I want to see a
24 thoughtful investment of steps to succeed in your
25 reinstatement.

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1 And that means that we're going to hold this

2 hearing in time out until we receive that additional
3 information. And we will enter our order, the panel will
4 enter its order upon receipt of that, and conference calls
5 to deliberate further toward a recommendation to the
6 Nevada Supreme Court for your reinstatement.
7 If what you submit to the panel is incomplete
8 or off the charts or exhibits to this panel behaviors that
9 indicate that you haven't heard us at all, there might be
10 a different outcome here. But it's my hope that you will
11 be able to put together a good plan, not just for us, but
12 for you to succeed in being able to practice actively in
13 the State of Nevada.
14 Questions?
15 MR. COUGHLIN: I do, your Honor.
16 MS. JENKINS: You can do whatever you need to
17 do.
18 MR. COUGHLIN: SCR 117.4, I believe, requires
19 this panel issue its findings within 30 days.
20 MS. JENKINS: It says the panel shall render a
21 written decision within 30 days of the hearing's
22 conclusion. And the hearing will not conclude until that
23 additional information is received.
24 MR. COUGHLIN: If I submit that -- how could
25 the panel know it hasn't already received that

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1 information? It seems to me there was a point made about

2 how the panel wanted whatever I filed this morning, well,
3 we should have gotten this earlier. Yet what I filed this
4 morning was highly dependent upon what Bar counsel filed
5 in her prehearing packet, which was filed late under the
6 rules.
7 So this panel having 30 days from I believe
8 today to issue the decision, I'm a little bit puzzled why
9 this panel isn't adjourned here today and is taking some
10 time to consider what I filed, and read through all those
11 letters of recommendation. Seems there's already
12 monitoring. There's already this plan. It's been laid
13 out in what I filed.
14 MS. JENKINS: Mr. Coughlin, if you would like
15 for us to go back into deliberations right now, I'm
16 certain the panel would be more than happy to conclude
17 this matter today if that's your wish.
18 MR. COUGHLIN: My wish would be for this panel
19 to take the 30 days it has from today to consider what I
20 filed, and then make a ruling. I did not anticipate that
21 the panel would not have a decision made within 30 days
22 from today, so I might need -23 MS. JENKINS: While I appreciate your
24 disappointment, perhaps, the rule requires within 30 days
25 of the hearing's conclusion. This hearing will not be

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1 concluded until the panel receives that additional

2 requested information. And if it's not received, then at
3 the end of November 15th the panel will reconvene at that
4 time and issue its decision.
5 MR. COUGHLIN: Okay. And if I submit it
6 tomorrow, will it then -- will a decision be made within
7 30 days of tomorrow?
8 MS. JENKINS: If your submission is received
9 tomorrow, I've already expressed to you that I fear that
10 it will not be -- will not contain the amount of
11 consideration and thought that I've expressed will be
12 necessary. But if it does, the panel will meet at its
13 earliest convenience, deliberate, and conclude this
14 matter.
15 MR. COUGHLIN: So then a decision -- it would
16 conclude?
17 MS. JENKINS: It would.
18 MR. COUGHLIN: I guess I just ask because the
19 way it's being presented here this could be not concluded
20 for years.
21 MS. JENKINS: Mr. Coughlin -22 MR. COUGHLIN: I'm not suggesting -23 MS. JENKINS: Mr. Coughlin, I've expressed now
24 several times that you have until November 15th. If
25 nothing is received before November 15th, this matter will

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1 conclude with a conference call and an issuance of an

2 appropriate order.
3 If something is received before that time, and
4 it meets the requirements I've outlined now for you, the
5 panel will reconvene and issue an appropriate order. And
6 if something is received that does not meet the
7 requirements I've outlined, the panel will reconvene and
8 issue an appropriate order.
9 In no event do I envision that the reconvening
10 of this panel will happen a great deal after November 15th
11 of 2015. That simply won't happen. This panel will
12 reconvene as soon as it can at the convenience of the
13 members upon receipt of your submission or upon the
14 happening of November 15th and issue an appropriate order.
15 And that's all.
16 MR. COUGHLIN: I just anticipate indicating,
17 and certainly due care and respect will be taken to what I
18 have been told here today by the panel with respect to
19 what they would like to see in this plan. This plan I
20 think largely follows what the panel, if it hasn't already
21 read Dr. Nielsen's updated report, would largely assent or
22 indicate a willingness to comply with that. But I don't
23 believe I need three months to do that.
24 MS. JENKINS: Mr. Coughlin, there is no
25 testimony at this point. It's simply the order is to

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1 submit the requested information, and the panel will

2 reconvene. That's all there is.
3 MR. COUGHLIN: If I may ask that the panel
4 take what I believe is 30 days from today or tomorrow, if
5 I file the brief tomorrow, to use that time to review the
6 materials I spent a great deal of time and effort putting
7 together -8 MS. JENKINS: Mr. Coughlin, rest assured the
9 panel will give you your due process. There is nothing
10 more for you to say.
11 MR. LOW: May I say something?
12 MS JENKINS: You may.
13 MR. LOW: Mr. Coughlin, I hope you understand
14 that Bar counsel asked that we do nothing for six months.
15 And what's been proposed here today is that at the latest
16 within three months we would have a determination.
17 What's been asked of you is not what's in
18 Dr. Nielsen's report, and it's not in the other papers.
19 It's a very specific request for very specific information
20 about your intent, what you're going to do here in Reno or
21 wherever you relocate going forward for the next two
22 years.
23 We are giving you your best and last shot here
24 to make this right. And we have accommodated your wish to
25 have this happen quickly. And I find that your difficulty

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1 with our decision is not enuring to your benefit here. So

2 I hope you understand that, sir.
3 MR. DENNEY: I'd echo those comments.
4 DR. TIM COUGHLIN: Can we get a specific list
5 of what you want so we don't ignore anything?
6 MS. JENKINS: I'm certain that the transcript
7 of the proceedings will be available.
8 MR. LOW: You can get a copy of the
9 transcript, that portion that talks -10 DR. TIM COUGHLIN: All right. We'll go ahead
11 and spell it out.
12 MS. JENKINS: That will be available how
13 quickly?
14 THE REPORTER: Tomorrow morning.
15 MS. JENKINS: Tomorrow morning emailed to the
16 parties?
17 THE REPORTER: Yes. I just need email
18 addresses.
19 MS. JENKINS: We're standing in recess until
20 the reconvening upon receipt of the materials.
21 (Proceedings concluded at 4:30 P.M.)
22 -oOo23
24
25


Page 193
1 STATE OF NEVADA )
) ss.
2 COUNTY OF WASHOE)
3
4 I, CAROL HUMMEL, a notary public in and for
5 the County of Washoe, State of Nevada, do hereby certify:
6 That at 8:30 A.M. on Tuesday, the 25th day of
7 August, 2015, at the offices of Nevada State Bar, 9456
8 Double R Boulevard, Reno, Nevada, personally appeared
9 witnesses who were sworn by me and were deposed in the
10 matter entitled herein;
11 That said transcript which appears
12 hereinbefore was taken in verbatim stenotype notes by me,
13 a Certified Court Reporter, and thereafter reduced to
14 writing by means of computer-assisted transcription as
15 herein appears;
16 That the foregoing transcript, consisting of
17 Pages 1 through 192, inclusive, is a full, true and
18 correct transcription of my stenotype notes of said
19 proceedings;
20 I further certify that I am not an attorney or
21 counsel for any of the parties, nor a relative or employee
22 of any attorney or counsel connected with the action, nor
23 financially interested in the action.
24 ______________________
CAROL HUMMEL, CCR #340
25


8 25 15 Coughlin Reinstatement Hearing - 255647ch - Fulltranscript

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1

REINSTATEMENT HEARING - 08/25/2015

Litigation Services | 1.800.330.1112

REINSTATEMENT HEARING - 08/25/2015

Litigation Services | 1.800.330.1112

REINSTATEMENT HEARING - 08/25/2015

1 -oOo2 RENO, NEVADA; TUESDAY, AUGUST 25TH, 2015; 8:38 A.M.

Litigation Services | 1.800.330.1112

REINSTATEMENT HEARING - 08/25/2015

1 had already been appointed, and I felt that all of those

Litigation Services | 1.800.330.1112

REINSTATEMENT HEARING - 08/25/2015

1 MR. COUGHLIN: Yes, your Honor.

9 decided to take a different tack, which is basically to

Litigation Services | 1.800.330.1112

REINSTATEMENT HEARING - 08/25/2015

1 Then the exhibits attached thereto are

Litigation Services | 1.800.330.1112

REINSTATEMENT HEARING - 08/25/2015

Litigation Services | 1.800.330.1112

REINSTATEMENT HEARING - 08/25/2015

1 Mr. Coughlin would like to use in his presentation of

Litigation Services | 1.800.330.1112

REINSTATEMENT HEARING - 08/25/2015

1 will probably in truncated version, citing all the case

Litigation Services | 1.800.330.1112

REINSTATEMENT HEARING - 08/25/2015

1 Mr. Coughlin, during our telephone conference

Litigation Services | 1.800.330.1112

REINSTATEMENT HEARING - 08/25/2015

1 that's volunteer -2 MS. JENKINS: Mr. Coughlin, my concern is that

Litigation Services | 1.800.330.1112

REINSTATEMENT HEARING - 08/25/2015

1 And as you said, all of the members here are volunteers.

Litigation Services | 1.800.330.1112

REINSTATEMENT HEARING - 08/25/2015

1 MS. JENKINS: Mr. Coughlin?

Litigation Services | 1.800.330.1112

REINSTATEMENT HEARING - 08/25/2015

Litigation Services | 1.800.330.1112

REINSTATEMENT HEARING - 08/25/2015

1 Where I got a bit caught up was in that fit to

Litigation Services | 1.800.330.1112

REINSTATEMENT HEARING - 08/25/2015

1 medical expert. So he will be appearing by telephone.

Litigation Services | 1.800.330.1112

REINSTATEMENT HEARING - 08/25/2015

Litigation Services | 1.800.330.1112

REINSTATEMENT HEARING - 08/25/2015

1 impaired or whatever it may be or because of this or that.

Litigation Services | 1.800.330.1112

REINSTATEMENT HEARING - 08/25/2015

Litigation Services | 1.800.330.1112

REINSTATEMENT HEARING - 08/25/2015

1 necessary, perhaps, that's why we would request that the

10 would like to do that unless you would like to hear the

Litigation Services | 1.800.330.1112

REINSTATEMENT HEARING - 08/25/2015

1 after 10:00 o'clock. So I wanted to make sure that that

Litigation Services | 1.800.330.1112

REINSTATEMENT HEARING - 08/25/2015

1 been a trial court judge or juvenile judge for over 35

Litigation Services | 1.800.330.1112